Mini 1316 - Last Will Mafia IV (Over)
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Rhinox Mafia Scum
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Rhinox Mafia Scum
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Rhinox Mafia Scum
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In post 20, Fishythefish wrote:Oh, scrambled the word order into "who is in your last will".
ha I did that at first too. Had to read it slowly a couple times-
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In post 27, Lastsurvivor wrote:DDD, if you think asking for the last person in a person's will is "useless information," then why did you ask the question in the first place?
oooh good point-
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In post 32, Lastsurvivor wrote:In post 29, Rhinox wrote:In post 27, Lastsurvivor wrote:DDD, if you think asking for the last person in a person's will is "useless information," then why did you ask the question in the first place?
oooh good point
Rhinox, do you always BS your way through RVS like you are now? Or is this just how you play your scum games? (srs question)
Most of your "scumhunting" so far has been related to DDD. By that, I mean deflecting his question back to him and this post above. What do you think of DDD, Rhinox?
DDD, good answer.
So I agreed that you have a good point and you accuse me of BSing? Thats kinda a low blow. I'm going to completely ignore your obviously loaded question even though you tagged it as a "srs question"
As for your "analysis" of my "scumhunting"..
A) its still early in the game, I haven't considered anything I've said to be serious scumhunting, moreso just trying to get into the game and get out of the RVS and stuff, like everyone else.
B) I don't think anything about DDD right now, and
C) as for "deflecting" his question, lrn2buzzword kthx. I answered his question, which is directly opposite of "deflecting". Asking him to answer his own question is not "deflecting". Usually when people ask questions in the RVS, they answer their own questions. DDD didn't provide his answer right away, so I asked him for his answer.
And now for my big finish, a snarky and obviously sarcastic mocking of your "attack" against me:
Lastsurvivor, most of your "scumhunting" has been misconstruing what others have said. Do you always push BS like this? Or is this just how you play your scum games? (srs question)
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@DrunkFishy: awww man c'mon that hurts I thought we were friends
@SoberFishy: This is the 3rd last will game we've played together and we've played other games aside from those... Its a little hurtful that you have to go look up my meta *sniff*. But mostly, I'm not really buying it, and I guess this'll be the first Last Will game I don't have you at the top of my Last Will-
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Rhinox Mafia Scum
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So all I really get out of that is you wanted to make sure someone else was going to support voting for me (fishy) before you would vote me yourself.
LOL at making a big deal about "fluff posts" less than 24hrs into the game, while its still RVS time, and not everyone had even posted yet.
(lol harder that you think defending myself is a scumtell)
DDD asked a question, that was obviously just a device to spark conversation about something. Not a town or scum tell. It was a good point (not a strong point or a scum point) you had but it says more about you than DDD. DDD gave the expected answer. thus, I am not leaning town nor scum towards DDD (or anyone) right now. Not enough information yet. Anyone that thinks thats a problem 24hrs into a game is either rediculously naive or scum.
But see, it was much more concise to just say I don't think anything about DDD right now, rather than a useless paragraph that amounts to "I don't think anything about DDD right now".
In post 49, Lastsurvivor wrote:This is so adorable. <3
There it is, the definition of deflecting . We're gonna end up friends, I can tell already.
OK then time to take requests: who else besides nacho wants my vote after I'm lynched then?-
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In post 52, Lastsurvivor wrote:Did I ever say that? :3
You certainly implied that it was a negative thing that my first real post (as defined by you) was defending myself.
While I admit that there are scum that just sit back and lay low and only show up to defend themselves, you just can't come to the conclusion that anyone is doing that 24hrs in. What usually happens is that a player or group of players gang up and attack a player, and that player responds to everything and quote wars go on and on, and then someone jumps in and is all "Hey XXXXX, look all you've done over the past Z pages has been defending yourself you're not scumhunting so you must be scum LYNCHLYNCHLYNCH" - its that sort of BS that just makes me roll my eyes, and thats essentially what you did, just MUCH quicker than I usually see, so kudos for that. But its still BS, becuase once you make your attack post, you've already set me up. I'm not just going to ignore you, so I defend myself and you through out your "your first real post is defending yourself" accusation. If you wanted to make the point that I hadn't scumhunted to your level of approval and posted fluff and etc, you could have done that in your first attack post, not bait me into "defending myself" so you can pad your case.
In post 52, Lastsurvivor wrote:Okay, here's what I was referring to earlier. If you think that what I posted was reflecting (which it really wasn't since what you confessed that what you posted was just snarky gibberish anyway), then isn't you just saying "LOL" to my points definitely reflecting?
No, my last sentence, which I separated from the rest, was snarky gibberish. You chose to ignore/lump in the part about me accusing you of buzzword scumhunting by saying I deflected DDD's question (which I didn't) and using it as part of your justification for why I'm scum. Deflecting is when you ignore/make light of/minimize/etc points or questions you're uncomfortable addressing. I did not deflect DDD's question, but you certainly did deflect the point I was making about you.
In post 52, Lastsurvivor wrote:Um. Anyway, Rhino, are there any players you do have thoughts about? They don't have to be solid (we aren't that far into the game after all), but you've gotta have some alignment indications.
Look, sometimes I can get into srs mode in games quickly and sometimes I can't. I hate this part of the game sometimes, all the ambiguously forced "how do you feel about YYYY?" type questions, just gets old sometimes, even though its a necessary part of the game sometimes. But I'm not just going to make up some reads that don't exist just to placate the rest of the town and make myself look good. And while I appreciate that you want to hear all my null reads explained, there's another whole group of people who feel paragraphs about players that don't really say anything and don't end with a confident town or scum conclusion is just being wishy-washy and scummy, so its a lose-lose situation until I find something to have a definitive opinion on. In the meantime, if I get to be the vehical that propels us solidly out of the RVS, then I'm comfortable with that too.
But just consider what you're asking - majority of the players have 2 or 3 posts. Thats nothing to base anything on, and at this stage of the game I try not to bother leaning towards any alignment for anyone because its either so weak the next post I could change my mind for reasons I can't explain, or it leads to a bias in reading those players the rest of the game (too much benefit of the doubt / confirmation bias). The 2 players I've interacted with the most (you and fish) I can't objectively read because I know you're both wrong, and its hard to objectively sort out "Wrong" and "scum" when you're the target.
Nacho is maybe the only other player that made an impression on me. His first post gave me a chuckle and is ultimately meaningless. The rest, nothing I'm ready to lean an alignment on. I think Nacho made a good point that Malee through a vote him for "skimming", but didn't explain what was scummy about it, but I think he gave that point back up when he downplayed Malee's point by being all "but I didn't vote".
Other people need to show up moar before I put too much weight on anything. Making REALLY BIG DEALS of the things being said by the few active people at the start of the game is what leads to town on town on town on town BS while scum sit back lauging at us.
In short, we're like 24hrs in. Its a marathon, not a sprint. Patience..-
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@Fishy - I was just curious if you went back and looked at the past Last Will games and iso'd me, because in both in my first half dozen posts or so I was what you called flippant and friendly, joking around and in the last 1 I made a very similar reference to you being at the top of my will, so I was just wondering why you felt my play in this game was so different.
@LS
I don't really believe this, but we can just agree to disagree since its not really important right now and I've already explained my feelings on defending in my previous post.In post 57, Lastsurvivor wrote:defending yourself is really iffy content.
So, whats the problem with me asking DDD to answer his own question.In post 57, Lastsurvivor wrote:might have been thinking of reflect or reciprocate or something.
@DDD
In post 63, Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:I'd love to know why it was a good point other than pandering to LastSurvivor because even you recognize the point was easily addressed.
Well, I was pandering to LS with my post. Even though the point was easily addressed I still wanted to hear your answer, and I was curious how much LS would push on you for what was clearly just a RVS talking point question.-
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nacho...didn't vote vincent?? (now who's not paying attention )
Malee wrote:In post 53, Nachomamma8 wrote:Just because there's a small number of posts doesn't mean that you should put down a serious vote if you don't believe there's scum intent. I also foresee myself speaking with every member of the playlist that posts, so it probably would've been better if my discussion with you didn't start with suspicion, don't you think?
But you never said, was your Vincent vote a serious vote? It just seemed very odd, even for a RVS. I'm not suspicious and I don't read you as scum per se due to that vote, it was just an awkward moment, and it doesn't sit with me.-
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alicewondering wrote:she continued to think that Nacho voted Vincent was bad. Seems like a fabricated case to me.
I don't agree. Scum have no reason to push a case like that if they know the evidence will shoot it down. Seems like she genuine thought nacho had voted vincent. She unvoted when she finally realized she was derping - I'd expect scum to come up with some ad hoc explanation rather than just say oops and unvote.
In post 67, Fishythefish wrote:Do you have nothing to say about the game other than unvoting?
In post 114, Lastsurvivor wrote:Yo, funkybike, what's up? Give us your thoughts on, like, players and stuff.
I was waiting to see IF funky would respond before throwing my thoughts in here. It is certainly by the book to pressure less active players into posting more, but unfortunately this is about all we're going to get from funky. Fortunately, what we're getting matches town-funky more than scum-funky right now. Unfortunately, my scum meta hardcopy vanished in the crash so I can't confirm. But my recollection is that scum funky is more active and involved, whereas town funky lurks and has no idea what to say most of the time. I think funky just has more fun playing scum. Since I can't confirm my meta I'm not going to rely on it 100% the whole game, but I'm probably not going to be interested lynching funky today, espectially if the reason is his activity. If I were a vig though, he'd be at the top of my list.
In post 121, hiplop wrote:however, I am going to VOTE: Rhinox Quite simply there is something wrong here, it seems like you're attempting to emulate a townie, just feels very forced
Acknowledged. Can't really defend against a "something wrong" accusation, so :shrug: Since you can't even pin it down, it does no good to go back and rehash the post you seem to have a problem with so I'll just continue on and you can decide if I get any better or not.
Why did you feel the need to make like 3 posts about it saying pretty much exactly the same thing before I came back to respond? Why did you unvote then revote me before I had said anything about it?
In post 130, Vincent2128 wrote:Rhinox, still sticking with your RVS vote?
Is it hurting anything??
I know, I know... I'm getting more townvibes than scumvibes at the moment, when I find a good reason to move my vote, I'll move it.
In post 131, Sleepless Assassin wrote:the interactions between rhinox and hip
What "interactions"?-
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In post 137, Sleepless Assassin wrote:Rhinox, I disagree about malee where you say scum wouldn't say oops and unvote. If they realize something is making them look bad, they could definitely back off of it.
And by interactions, I mostly meant the post where he voted you. Vince's take on that threw me off a little.
Yeah but thats still assuming that it was a scum motivated argument to begin with. Does it make sense for scum-malee to push a case based on nacho voting vincent if she knew nacho didn't actually vote vincent? She'd know it was doomed from the start. In that case, I'd expect a "yeah but nacho was still skimming" explaination, rather than an "oops unvote". Because it wouldn't have made sense to push it in the first place knowing it would only look bad.
And assuming malee, town or scum, actually thought nacho voted vincent (and that it was a significant point), then yes "oops unvote" is the likely response no matter the alignment, but that doesn't say anything about whether scum or town would be more likely to make the argument to begin with. Both town or scum can make those mistakes. Malee is technically null from the exchange, but my gut is saying she's town. Anecdotally, scum are usually more careful to make sure their cases are at least logically sound, if completely fabricated.
(and I was only poking fun about the "interactions" because it implies there was a back and forth between 2 or more parties, not one side repeating the same thing over and over again before the other side responds >.>)-
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In post 136, Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:Dislike Rhinox becuase of the very soft way he's been playing. There's absolutely no conviction in the arguments he was making; his "good point" from LS wasn't actually a good point and it was just the first in a set of panders towards LS that he mde.
Well we can't all be hardasses like fate >.>
But we talked about the "good point" comment already so I'm not sure what more I can say about it. "goodpoint" probably wasn't even the right wording anyways, maybe "interesting point" woulda been better. But it was all just about gauging reactions from you and LastSurvivor, not that I ever intended suspecting you as scum for it.
I'm interested to hear what other argumentsI've been showing no conviction in, and what other panderstowards LS I made. And most importantly, why they're bad/scummy?-
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In post 151, Sleepless Assassin wrote:Rhinox, not necessarily. When scum lay down a vote, regardless of the intent behind it, and they are pressured for the vote, it is very common for them to go "oh shit, you're right. Silly me, unvote".
Yeah, but town do that too, especially when you have in your mind that X voted Y as part of your reasoning but X never voted Y.
But 4nxi3ty/fishy/others are making convincing points - Malee's original vote was for nacho skimming, and he skimmed whether he actually voted vincent or not, and Malee has been seemingly skirting the issue and not really answering questions about when she did and didn't think that nacho voted vincent, and why the fact that nacho didn't vote vincent makes his skimming no longer scummy in her opinion.
@Malee Site flaking:
In post 155, Vincent2128 wrote:Also I've noted how Rhinox began pushing on hiplop after I noted what hiplop did in voting him (#135).
Not sure I understand what you're saying here-
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In post 253, Lastsurvivor wrote:All those who have recently posted "Prod dodge": I want a reads list in your next post of at least five players. You must find at least two of those players scummy.
I think I've given enough reads in my posts already to satisfy your demand. I see no point in repeating them in a list. If you're looking for a talking point, then just iso through my posts and you can let me know if you agree or disagree with any of them. No one has had anything to say about my reads when I originally posted them, so I don't believe I have an obligation to placate you with a list now.-
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In post 212, Alicewondering wrote:I don't vote for people replacing out.
Why not? Are scummy players no longer scummy once they replace out?
P.edit: already kinda addressed by SA:
In post 215, Alicewondering wrote:In post 213, Sleepless Assassin wrote:Alice, what makes replacing out a town tell? Once replaced, would you be willing to vote a player based on Malee's play?
Sorry, when did I ever say replacing out is a town tell? I only remember saying that Malee is still my primary scumread. Yes, I would be willing to vote a player based on Malee's play, but I certainly would take into account the replacement's play.
Reading this, even though Malee is your primary scum read, you must not feel very strongly in that convinction. If Malee is scum, does it matter what the replacement has to say?
I'm not a fan of hiplop #214. It has a bit of that "cheeky scum" feel to it, to borrow a term from fate. Basically it just seems like he's using sarcasm to avoid playing seriously.
In post 218, hiplop wrote:DDD and Rhinox are scum, imo.
Why am I scum?
In post 221, Sleepless Assassin wrote:tl;dr version: Holy shit, 4n slipped under my radar and is obvscumbuddy with Bike. Malee is now town because 4n/malee are obvnotbuddies.
I keep catching myself wanting to think that 4n is the "scum flying under everyone's radar", but everytime I go to iso him, I just don't see it and I find myself agreeing a lot with things he's saying. I also don't see a connection between 4n and bike.
Ok I'll bite. why?
And why the need to draw attention to yet provide sarcasm to brush off voting without an explanation?
p.edit: I see you already kinda addressed this in post #225, so. mmmkay.
In post 236, hiplop wrote:People dont just have a preset plan for the game, it makex no sense.
This seems like an idealist viewpoint. However, some players do consciously plan to play certain ways. Do you think players like Fate (jeez why do I keep thinking about Fate today) are REALLY ANGRY AND PISSED OFF ALL THE TIME AND THATS WHY THEY POST IN CAPS? No, its because its a predetermined playstyle they choose to do.
In post 251, Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:In post 248, 4nxi3ty wrote:DDD, you have left your vote on nacho for being on cruise control yet you haven't really pressured any of his recent posts or actions...?
Hey guys Nacho is still totally doing nothing useful; maybe he'd start doing something useful or at very least we'd lynch scum if ya'll voted him as well!!!
This post is starting to give me the impression you're a lyncher with nacho as a target. You haven't done anything the whole game except ride this minor "nacho is on cruise control" point, but I see you as being as equally on cruise control.
You still haven't expanded on the vague accusations you made towards me that I asked you about here
Why change your vote now?-
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In post 258, Lastsurvivor wrote:Does anyone find the fact that Funky clearly doesn't read the thread scummy? I'll answer when others answer.
I think funky does read the thread, he just only comments on what he wants to, doesn't care what anyone demands of him, and doesn't care if people find him scummy for it. I don't think funky is scummy, I think if you actually read what he is saying, he's been making some decent points.
In post 260, hiplop wrote:rhinox said he was disappearing, nacho wagon gained a player/he became more interesting to you folk
I said I was going to be away for 3 days.
In post 260, hiplop wrote:Read back. Been accused of saying it too many times already granted altest post seems genuine, still more scum than town
I did read back. The only thing I see is that you think my one big post early in the game was scum trying to look like a townie. Is there anything else?
In post 260, hiplop wrote:All rules have exceptions, was raised on english...gained this moral
Then why make a definitive "nobody but scum have playstyles" statements? How do you know nacho isn't an exception to your rule?
In post 262, hiplop wrote:alice i have been pretty clear in saying nacho/rhinox are likely both scum. Fine with either's death. More steam/less active pursuit = vote nacho
You're posts tell me you're most sure that I'm scum, but you're voting nacho now because there is more support and its easier to get him lynched. You even said not too long back that DDD might be scum instead of Nacho - what changed your mind there? This looks like textbook scum going with the flow to blend in with the most townies.
unvote, vote hiplop
In post 261, Alicewondering wrote:@Rhinox: It doesn't make anyone less scummy if they're replacing out, as I said before. But I almost always unvote when someone replaces out--it's a matter of style. Sometimes I've misread people because I've mistaken playstyle for scummy behavior, and I'd at least like to see what a replacement has to say. It's more information to form a read on.
ok, I'm starting to see that this is more a theory disagreement, than you being scum. But I do have one more question. Do you think a replacement provides more/better information if they aren't under any pressure, or if they immediately have to face a bandwagon full of voters who found their predecessor scummy?-
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In post 269, Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:In post 268, Rhinox wrote:He said himself that he was voting for nacho because it was a more viable lynch with more support.
And that shouldn't be a consideration at all? It's not as if he tossed aside everything he said perviously to take an easy lynch; he simply moved within his own suspicions to a wagon that might actually flourish.
Not when he is sure I'm scum, and he's been waffling back and forth over which of you or nacho is my partner.-
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Nice adhom in #272. I'm on the right track then.
You, and nacho are about equal in my books. Can you really not grasp basic connotation? I used "maybe even DDD"...because my only thought on him is hes kinda lurky.
I'm refering to this:
In post 218, hiplop wrote:DDD and Rhinox are scum, imo. Maybe even Nachomama instead of DDD.Nacho is doing what every player who has been "Scum-meta'd" does, "CHANGE THEIR PLAYSTYLE" in heavy air quotes (its more fashionable that way). And quite bluntly, I see a connection between rhinox and nacho. DDD feels independently scummy, some for his lurking, some for his actual posts.
At this point, you were sure it was me and DDD. But maybe Nacho instead of DDD (which implies definitely me, whether its DDD or nacho).
by post #241, you called me and nacho scum, and you've all but forgotten about DDD. There's nothing in your iso that shows your thought process between 218 to 241, its like you're arbitrarily changing things around on whatever you can easily argue for. There is nothing in your iso until I started questioning you about voting nacho that suggests you ever considered nacho and I equal scum reads. There is no posting trail of evidence that shows you having more of a scum read and nacho and/or less of a scum read on Me/DDD. In 218, you are declaring one thing, and by 241, you were declaring another, and now you are declaring something else - there is nothing connecting the dots between your reads.
In post 272, hiplop wrote:Nice observation? I figured you were actual going to leave, not randomly become active?
I was pointing that out in reference to how that is a crap reason to justify moving your vote off of me if you think I'm scum. Does going V/LA make me less scummy? Is there some questions or reactions you're looking to get out of me from your vote, which makes it pointless to leave it there while I'm V/LA? This doesn't make sense either because you're not questioning me and when I ask you why I'm scum you just tell me to read back and when I question you further you just ignore me. You seem content calling me scum based on the assumption that I am scum without having to justify your conclusion.
In post 272, hiplop wrote:CAN YOU REALLY NOT UNDERSTAND THIS? take a deep breath, and read back. I'm against him for using that as a *defense*, not for having a playstyle.
You sound like you're the one who should be taking a deep breath.
When I read back to post 218/232/234/236, I see you saying that no one really has conscious playstyles they intend to conform to, except for scum. Thus, since nacho is claiming to be changing his playstyle, he must be scum because only scum have a pre-emptive playstyle in mind. so, you are against him having a playstyle, *and* for using it as a defense, I guess. But when Nacho first said he had changed his playstyle, I didn't see him as using it as a defense against a damning accusation, more as just an explaination. The majority of your posting on the subject is about how townies shouldn't have premeditated playstyles, not about using playstyles as a defense.
Anyways, that last paragraph isn't really part of the reason why I'm voting you. Its because you self-admittedly switched your vote to nacho because there's more momentum and support there. I feel that is a scum motivated mindset - townies want to argue vehemently for lynching their #1 suspect, not fold and switch to a secondary (oh sorry, I forgot we're equal now) suspect who happens to be more lynchable in your opinion.
I would like you to spend less time trying to insult me for having the audacity to question you, and more time addressing this, and what happened to your scumread on DDD who you were sure was scum with me in 218, and why your so convinced I'm scum based on 1 post 24hours into the game you felt was faked towniness, and what happened with your scumread on SA who you voted earlier in the game and seemed to just kind of drop (much like your DDD suspicions).-
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hiplop wrote:do you really think its townie to keep to your reads completely and never veer off in the face of unorthodoxy? Scum are the one attempting to keep to a code, town's reads will generally fluctuate.
Thats not what I'm arguing at all. I'm saying you should be able to show reasons for your reads changing.
As far as i'm concerned, post #280 is a hiplop scum claim. You just repeated what you already said, without giving what I'm really asking for - the reasonswhy. You didn't actually address any of my questions/comments/concerns.
What wiki-based garbage am I using? do tell.
I'm not going to be drawn into a pointless argument where you keep repeating the same unjustified comments and don't actually address anything I'm saying.
More hiplop votes plox kthx.
nacho wrote:There are things people do because they're scum. There are also things people do because they have it so lodged in their head that there is no way in God's green earth that they could be wrong. Blatantly lying about the position on his suspect list? Yeah, no scum motive there. Insulting you for questioning him on things that he believes to be completely correct? Stupid, but not scummy.
In things other than that, last time we met I was scum replacing into a shitty position and he was town who was promptly mislynched. So his strongest pursuit of the game is me, with a case that would be pretty damn risky as scum. No scum motive here either.
In short, the scum game that hiplop would have to be running now is risky as hell and being run for absolutely no reason. I can't even think about voting him until I understand why hiplop scum would get it into his mind that any of that would be a good idea. Do you have something that can change my mind?
The core of the issue is that hiplop is playing as if he has some locked down reasoning for why you and I are his top to scum suspects, when that just does not exist. When you actually read his iso, his reads just keep arbitrarily shifting around. What drew my attention was when he switched my vote from me to you because I was going on V/LA and you had more support/momentum. The would be ok if you and I really were equal scum reads for him, or if he was still feeling us out trying to pressure us/get reactions or something. But his posts say I have been his #1 scum read since the start of the game basically, and I don't see any point where he says we're equal scum reads until he switches his vote and I start questioning him for it. So this seems like a scum-motivated vote switch, and then ad hoc reasoning that you and I are equal scum reads when his iso doesn't support that conclusion.
So thats the core, basically - the vote switch for the reasons given, and reads that aren't explained or supported by his iso. Its not about position on a suspect list, only insofar as it supports that he is arbitrarily changing his reads when its convenient to do so. He even says now that he only suspected DDD for lurking but if you go look through his iso you'll find thats not the case either. I'm not saying he has intentionally decided it would be a good idea to lie about his reads as a scum strategy. I'm saying that he's scum who is not explaining reads, and when questioned has started getting a bit flustered, and has resorted to ad hom, responding to accusations by calling me "obv scum" or "lolwikiarguments" in attempt to discredit me (no explanation about why in either case), and in his most recent post just keeps repeating the same unjustified beliefs I've been trying to get an explanation for. Its like he realizes he can't prove my arguments wrong, so he's just going to try to win the argument by arguing louder or insults or saying I have a kindergarten understanding of playing mafia. That is not a townie mindset, that is how scum play when they're beat. And thats when I stop trying to convince scum that they're scum and start trying to convince the rest of you to vote him. So please do.-
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In post 302, hiplop wrote:hey instead of making good points lets just call everything that opposes us a scumclaim
im such a good scumhunter
^^scumclaim
It so much better to call everything that opposes us obvscum and resort to childish ad hom insults. Those are so much better points. *thumbsup*
Can someone reitterate to me what they think my case on hiplop is and explain to me why its reaching/weak/exaggerated?-
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Well I still think "hurr I unvoted my #1 suspect to vote my #2 suspect because its easier and more convenient" is a scum motivated action but I can see I'm not really getting anywhere. I've actually done my best to keep my posting with hiplop as much on my suspicions and questions as possible and it was over as soon as soon as hiplop starting adhoming and not really addressing anything I was saying, so... (kinda weird kortal jumping in now telling us to back off since the argument wasn't going away, when, its, kinda already gone away)
Looking at others, I don't really think alice or funky are scum. Maybe themoaner and/or vincent but it seems kinda lazy to go after them now. I still have this gut feeling about 4nxi3ty being scum I can't explain, and DDD hasn't impressed me at all. I think nacho is town, and I feel a lot better about fishy now. LS and SA keeping running together in my mind but I don't feel anything bad about either of them.
So, thats where I'm at.
vote: vincentI guess.-
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Well after a little time to iso vincent and voided's post after replacing in, I don't have the gut scummy feeling towards vincent I thought I had. I thought I remembered him having a wishy-washy view of me, and then later doing a bit of stirring the pot regarding me/hiplop, but that doesn't seem to be the case after reading the iso.
Alice just feels town to me. I read her posts, they don't seem like things scum would say, not in tone nor content. The worst she did was vote hiplop and then backpedal out of it, but I don't think thats enough to call her scum.
as for funky, I see occassional hints of evidence that he is thinking like a townie, and nothing I can point to that says he's thinking like scum.
justunvotefor now.-
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In post 377, Sleepless Assassin wrote:4n, nacho, alice, and Rhinox. Please rank bike, alice, and moan in scumminess (alice, you obviously don't have to include yourself in your list)
uh... read my last 2 posts and realize you already have that answer.
Why ask such a useless question anyways? What are you looking to get out of the answers?
In post 378, Fishythefish wrote:Come and vote bike. He's scummy, he's a lurker, and he needs to die. Sure, if he flips town it's not good information-wise, but that's always going to be true with a player like funky - it's more than made up for by the fact that he's likely scum, and that if he's not he's useless town. We have to lynch him in the end, and later there may well be other things we want to do more.
I don't see how its a forgone conclusion we will inevitably have to lynch him at some point. Maybe there's a vig? Maybe there's investigations? Maybe we lynch all the scum before lylo (assuming funky is not scum)? I think its easy to say "oh he's a lurker, he's useless, he's not answering questions" and rally a lynch for that, but none of that means he's scum. I think if you look at some of the things he has been posting, it looks like genuine town trying to figure out scum. It may not be effective or helpful to the rest of us, but that doesn't mean we should lynch him.
Regarding Theomoaner: I don't know about any amished-tell or whatever voodoo scumhunting is being made up here. However I do want to point out 1 thing:
In post 273, theomoaner wrote:Alice: Probably town.
In post 293, theomoaner wrote:Alice - Her posts feel like "the voice of reason". She seems to be analysing what others are posting and to try to help others think through their ideas (for example post 148). I can't see scum doing this.
In post 318, theomoaner wrote:Going back to post 304. I find it interesting that after being questioned on the lack of interaction with me Alice asksexactlythe same question as Last, and nothing else. Especially of note is
In post 200, Alicewondering wrote:Ugh Malee.@Malee's replacement: I want a list of reads from you ASAP
and then no comment on my reads at all (original emphasis). I find this a little strange. I've revised my reading of Alice.
VOTE: Alicewondering
I don't get this. Alice didn't comment on your reads, and you find that strange... why is it scummy? and why is it scummy enough to completely erase your previous town read you seemed pretty confident in?
It seems more like you were under a bit of pressure and wanted to support a wagon that had some momentum rather than pursue any of your scum reads.
vote: theomoaner-
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In post 380, Fishythefish wrote:I was somewhat posting that because of the multiple people who've gone "yeah, he's scummy, but we won't get any information if he's town" - this implies that a lurker is a worse lynch than another equally scummy person, which is not at all true.
To me, that kinda says those people aren't really that confident funky would flip scum if they're worried about if he's town
without going point by point and iso funky (which wouldn't be that hard actually, but..), the jist of it is that funky has seemed to be spending more time talking about whats not a scum tell and defending people. That seems like a more town mindset, because it narrows the lynch pool and eliminates options, and locks him into a position where he may have to be contradictory later in the game if he's scum. I'd expect scum-funky to focus more on whats scummy and who he can lynch. I wouldn't expect scum funky to defend malee as much as he has regardless of what malee's alignment is, and I think he's made some comments that shows he's trying to figure out alignments rather than find a point he can lynch someone for (ie: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p3920092). I know in the game lost in the crash, funky bussed the hell out of me when I started looking scummy, so I wouldn't expect him to defend a scum partner, and based on what I know of funky I don't expect he would bother defending townies if he were scum either.
I'm not saying that I think his play is a token model of excellent scumhunting, or that he's at all effective or helpful to the rest of the town, just that IMO his motivations seem to be town-sided rather than scum-sided.
I don't really think he was parroting your meta comments - we were in a game together when the site crashed, we were both scum. Unfortunately the game thread is lost but out of the 3 or 4 times I've played in a game with funky, I've felt that was his best game I've seen. There was no one calling him a VI, and many people calling him town. Yet he was scum. Every other time I've ever played with town-funky, and its been like this. Lots of people calling him useless and wanting him lynched. I still think thats indicative of funky being more comfortable playing when he has more information (aka as scum), even though he has said in here that he doesn't like being scum. By the way, I think that is another sign that he is town here - that he didn't just accept my meta defense of him earlier on in the game.
As for his comments about nacho earlier on, I agree with 4nx that there's no scum motivation to not vote if you calling someone sure scum, and I don't see funky as the type of player who would just backpedal away from a read as scum just for getting asked a few questions about it. All the attention and suspicion he's getting doesn't seem to make him want to answer everyone's questions quicker or more thoroughly. I think if he's the type of player that wants to placate others, it wouldn't just be limited to one instance where he changed his suspicion because he was getting attention, he'd be more likely to make sure to respond to everything else against him as well.-
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In post 412, Fishythefish wrote:Hmmm. Not particularly liking Vincent's reaction here.
I think you mean voided, right? (oh wait voided is vincent nevermind)
In post 405, Voidedmafia wrote:*ignores Macrophage's vote*
Funky just moved closer to being a viable lynch now (as in, more than a deadline lynch). Malee's slot is still much better.
What? Why? because funky replaced out? Thats almost always null, but in this case, why would scum funky replace out instead of just hammering like he was threatening to do? That doesn't make sense at all.
Mac, you've said a bunch of stuff, but I don't see it as anything scum couldn't have put together after replacing into your position.
Do you see anything scummy about voided/vincent other than stuff that happened on the last page? I noticed through all your big catchup posts, you didn't address vincent/voided at all other than this page stuff.-
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In post 415, Fishythefish wrote:@Rhinox: yeah, meant Voided. What do you think of him, here and in the rest of the game?
Well I don't think this most recent conversation reflects well on voided at all. I sorta hinted at my feelings about vincent/voided previously when I unvoted vincent - basically, I had a couple vincent posts stuck in my head which caused me to vote him. I remembered him being wishy-washy about his feelings on my alignment in this post, but in the context of his whole iso he seems to have maintained a consistent read of me. And I also remembered this post and felt it was kinda just stirring the pot between me/hiplop when almost everyone else was calling for us to move on. But again, in the whole iso that doesn't look as serious as I thought. A little while back, I was thinking voided's first few posts were a decent entry to the game and a big improvement on the slot. Looking back at those posts now, I'm not so sure now. I don't get why he felt the need to spend so much effort explaining indifference to a funky lynch, rather than just focusing on who he suspected.
Idk, I'm having a tough time being confident of reads in this game. Its like, I see big posts from mac up there and now I'm starting to have doubts about lynching the slot, even though big posts shouldn't mean anything about alignment.
Which reminds me to address:
In post 413, Macrophage wrote:I'm not liking Rhinox's change of vote from hiplop after fishy says they are town v town. I could see him as scum thinking "Well I don't need to be involved in that anymore." Still, I'm really waiting for the chance to ISO him before changing my townread.
That wasn't really the case at all, so you probably didn't read closely. I still don't like hiplop, but after stating my case, then restating it, then asking others to restate my case so I'm convinced they understand what I'm saying - if after all that the majority of the players I feel are more likely town are telling me to give it up and start considering other options, then its no longer productive to keep focused on hiplop. I have to admit to myself that maybe my case isn't as strong as I thought.-
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4nxi3ty, I disagree. Macro's push on voided wasn't actually that great IMO. I did not feel like macro's vote was a joke. Voided's reaction wasn't that great, but that may be a separate issue. Independant thoughts - eh scum and town replacements both do that, come in and iso the game and make a big post and everybody goes ooooh aaahhhh see that couldn't possibly come from scum. Except when it does. I'm more interested in the content of the thoughts - page by page iso, lots of "this is what happened's". Lots of unexplained YYY looks town, ZZZ looks scum. Anybody can throw that together. I'm also not a fan that Macro made an accusation towards me in #413, which I responded to, and Macro completely ignored and restated as part of a long winded wishy-washy case towards me (often those come from scum) in #430, as well as ignoring the question I asked him/her about her (I'm just going to use her until you set a gender) about her voided/vincent Pre-"joke" vote read. And its not like she's not reading my posts at all - she seemed to catch where I said I was a having doubts about lynching her, so she's clearly cherry picking what she wants to address/answer/acknowledge. As for not voting funky or LS - meh, here were the votes just after Macro's "joke vote":
Macrophage (6) - Voidedmafia, Debonair Danny DiPietro, rhinox, 4nxi3ty, hiplop, fishythefish
funkybike1 (3) - Sleepless Assassin, Lastsurvivor, kortul
Voidedmafia (1) - Macrophage
Lastsurvivor (1) - nachomamma8
Debonair Danny DiPietro (1) - Alicewondering
Alicewondering (1) - funkybike1
Wouldn't even occur to me to vote LS to save myself had I replaced in in macro's position. As for not voting funky, you imply its the obvious scum move to vote funky to save herself, but if that were true scum would never do it, and then it wouldn't be a tell either way. Its a big circle of WIFOM. Its more likely that town or scum, Macro would realize it was going to take more than voting the only counterwagon to save herself. I don't consider where she dedided to push indicative of her alignment either way.-
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This game...
In post 459, Macrophage wrote:What did you think my vote was?
Why are you using unexplained reads against me when you could easily ask for explanations?
Which question did you ask?
I had no idea what your vote was. I'd have been right there calling you out for voting voided after just saying you haven't read the thread yet, except others were already going on about it.
I'm not using unexplained readsagainstyou. I was rebuking 4nx's statement that your enterance to the game was obv-town. It wasn't. You said a lot of stuff, it could come from town, or it could come from scum, but its not clearly one or the other. As for why not ask you to explain your reads, well you've already been ignoring just about everything I've been saying since you replaced in, expect for things you can use to mudsling. I'd rather lynch you than try to draw out answers at this point.
question:
In post 414, Rhinox wrote:Mac, you've said a bunch of stuff, but I don't see it as anything scum couldn't have put together after replacing into your position. Do you see anything scummy about voided/vincent other than stuff that happened on the last page? I noticed through all your big catchup posts, you didn't address vincent/voided at all other than this page stuff.
Also, I'd have liked you to address this post by me, which you ignored before just restating the accusation in 430:
In post 417, Rhinox wrote:Which reminds me to address:
In post 413, Macrophage wrote:I'm not liking Rhinox's change of vote from hiplop after fishy says they are town v town. I could see him as scum thinking "Well I don't need to be involved in that anymore." Still, I'm really waiting for the chance to ISO him before changing my townread.
That wasn't really the case at all, so you probably didn't read closely. I still don't like hiplop, but after stating my case, then restating it, then asking others to restate my case so I'm convinced they understand what I'm saying - if after all that the majority of the players I feel are more likely town are telling me to give it up and start considering other options, then its no longer productive to keep focused on hiplop. I have to admit to myself that maybe my case isn't as strong as I thought.
In post 489, Nachomamma8 wrote:Macrophage:
Macrophage wrote:Ugh. It looks like I won't be able to get around this. I'm just a VT. I just couldn't see myself not getting lynched. What I ask is, don't just use this as an excuse to lynch me and don't write me off as scum because of my initial claim. I hope you can think about my actions and see that they come from town.
After an initial not-VT claim, claims VT.
Why on earth do you think Macrophage-scum would do this? He knows that, chances are, he will die if he claims VT. So, if he was scum, then why not go through with the not-VT claim and say doctor, or cop?
Maybe he realized he fucked up his fake claim by trying to slow role it, and realized we'd be unlikely to believe any claim at this point?
(thats just an attempt at a rationalization, not what I think happened)
gah idk... actually I could sheep nacho at this point (he seems to have a clearer/better read of the game at this point than I do at this point, and what he's saying makes a lot of sense to me), or swing for a DDD lynch. I doubt I'll get a much clearer view of the game at this point without additional information from a lynch.-
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In post 504, Macrophage wrote:@Rhinox
1)I'm pretty sure I already answered that. I think I said that vincent said some slightly townie things, some slightly townie things, and other than that, didn't make much of an impression.
2)Your response didn't do anything for me. Scum often have "town" explanations for what they do.
1)I didnt remember you saying anything about vincent but i'll read through your posts again when i get back to a comp.
2)isnt that exactly the same kinda statement you have a problem being used about the things you're saying?
Quit trying to be subtly snarking and address the real issue. Why is it scummy that i backed off of hiplop?-
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Can we go back to lynch macro actually?
I mean, I feel pretty good about Nacho and DC but I'm just not convinced about LS as scum. DDD would be my second choice - I get his meta is same as town and scum but I don't think his play here matches closely with either of the town or scum games posted as meta evidence.
Theres been a lot of "would scum really do that?" defenses being thrown around - would scum just really give up like LS and asked to be hammered?-
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In post 626, Lastsurvivor wrote:Rhinox: Macro prob isn't scum. Lynch either DDD or I today. I'd prefer DDD, obviously, but I think my lynch is inevitable at this point.
In post 634, Lastsurvivor wrote:Also, question: Have you guys ever seen scum that posts at the least almost 2x more than everyone else? Yeah, sure, I've seen active scum, but come on. Why would I have any encouragement to post at least 2x more than everyone else?
Sigh. It's too late for that now.
yes!!! :shrug:-
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End of Day vote count with my townreads in light green:
In post 642, LlamaFluff wrote:End of Day Vote Count
(7) -Lastsurvivornachomamma8DCLXVI, Macrophage,Alicewondering,kortul, hiplop
Macrophage (3) - Voidedmafia, Debonair Danny DiPietro,rhinox
Debonair Danny DiPietro (3) - Sleepless Assassin,fishythefish,Lastsurvivor
My current thinking is DDD-scum. That makes SA and voided lean-town, and likely 2 of {4nxi3ty, Macro, hiplop} scum - probably 4nx and 1 of the other 2. SA's vote doesn't feel like a bus. He made comments at the end of the day about not liking either of Macro/LS wagons, while voting DDD. Voided/DDD, eh possible, but I think DDD's recent post points to no. DDD find reasons to call everyone scummy BUT voided. If DDD is scum, thats a pretty good sign voided is town. I don't think hiplop/macro are scum together, so that would make 4nx scum by POE. One of Macro/hiplop as the last scum? I'm not confident here. I could possibly see myself having a bad read on like kortul, or mayyyybe fishy.
If DDD is not scum, then all that is obv thrown out the window.
I don't intend to lynch macro today. Nacho thought the lynch was stupid. LS in his dying breath said not to lynch macro. Two conf-towns not liking the lynch is good enough for me to leave it alone for now. After all the talk of everyone wanting to sheep nacho yesterday, no way scum kills him unless he's actually leading the herd in the right direction.
@nacho giving me his vote, I wonder if he just has a town read and trusts me to make good decisions, or if I was picked specifically because of who I was likely to vote with it (i.e. if LS flipping town caused nacho to change his mind about macro, and thought I'd use the vote to lynch macro) - eh I'm probably reading too much into it. I'll never understand why in all these last will games I end up clueless on who is scum but ppl send me votes anyways
Vote (x2): DDD-
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In post 650, Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:Looks like VCA (junk) combined with facile appeals to authority in dead townies (logical fallacy). Way to crystalize your spot near the top of my list, Rhinox.
I don't really care where I am on your list or how many buzzwords you can fit into a single sentence-
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Well its not really VCA in the traditional sense. DDD is my strongest scum suspect already I'm not using the VCA to say he's scum. The rest of the VCA is assuming DDD flips scum, following general truths(TM) such as scum likely to be on the D1 mislynch, scum generally spreading out across town wagons, not bussing early if they can avoid it, possibly voting a scum partner if it looks like the lynch won't go through, etc.
AlsoV/LA for a couple daysstarting now should be back by sunday but don't want to just up and disapear.-
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In post 656, Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:In post 652, Rhinox wrote:In post 650, Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:Looks like VCA (junk) combined with facile appeals to authority in dead townies (logical fallacy). Way to crystalize your spot near the top of my list, Rhinox.
I don't really care where I am on your list or how many buzzwords you can fit into a single sentence
Hey, I don't care about those things either; I care about how you apparently don't have your own opinion just using the opinions of others for cover.
Yeah thats pretty much complete bullshit
@guys asking me about DDD, i said suff about him throughout D1, ask questions, DDD ignored me mostlyy except when it was convenient for him to through out an accusation. I'll organize my thoughts when I'm back to a comp, but DDD saying i dont have my own oppinions is blantant rhettoric bullshit.-
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Ok, so a couple things about DDD I didn't like from D1:
firstly, I was not a fan of how he rode his vote on nacho for nacho being on cruise control. I think DDD himself was on cruise control. Yeah, I get the point that cruise control is not generally scummy for everyone but due to nacho's supposed meta it is for him. But posts like this one rub me the wrong way:
Because I don't particularly see that DDD was being any more useful than Nacho was. I mean, just in total posts, nacho had 54 D1 posts to DDD's 27 - twice as many. Sure quantity != quality, what I'm trying to say is that nacho wasn't being useless, and I felt DDD was, and his push on nacho was hypocritical and lazy.In post 251, Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:Hey guys Nacho is still totally doing nothing useful; maybe he'd start doing something useful or at very least we'd lynch scum if ya'll voted him as well!!!
secondly, I don't like how he exaggerated points against me and ignored questions I asked. For Example, for the 3rd time.
also, things like:In post 257, Rhinox wrote:In post 251, Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:In post 248, 4nxi3ty wrote:DDD, you have left your vote on nacho for being on cruise control yet you haven't really pressured any of his recent posts or actions...?
Hey guys Nacho is still totally doing nothing useful; maybe he'd start doing something useful or at very least we'd lynch scum if ya'll voted him as well!!!
This post is starting to give me the impression you're a lyncher with nacho as a target. You haven't done anything the whole game except ride this minor "nacho is on cruise control" point, but I see you as being as equally on cruise control.
You still haven't expanded on the vague accusations you made towards me that I asked you about here
In post 648, Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:How did I miss that he accused me of being a lyncher in #257?
DDD cherry picks the 3rd most important thing I said to him in that post, the obviously not-serious lyncher accusation. I was obviously trying to make a point that DDD's push on nacho was weak and lazy, and it didn't seem natural for DDD to be so focused on just Nacho for something so minor.
So DDD can go find this post and say I'm scum for calling him a lyncher, but he never addresses the point I was actually making about his push on nacho being bad, nor does he bother answering the questions I asked. Its like he's just trying to paint things I say in the scummiest possible way.
Couple other minor things raised my eyebrows in D1 but probably not important enough to list. Even the above, I mean I know its not real conclusive if it was I'd have voted him yesterday. What really pushed it over the edge for me was #648 - DDD calling basically everyone scummy, except for voided. I mean he says his list is scum to town, but that at the end he's all everyone inbetween me and voided is interchangeable.
So thats why I voted DDD, and I don't much care for all his rhetoric after my vote either.
Its clear today my top 2 suspects would be macro or DDD. Thats where I was at at the end of the day yesterday. I had macro over DDD but a couple of confirmed townies believing macro to be town bumps DDD ahead of macro. DDD wants to call that a logical fallacy - its not like I'm saying "welp macro is town because dead townies say so", just that I can take that into consideration and trust it a little more. I don't see a problem with that. There's always MD threads about how no one listens to dead townies and scum know that and use it to their advantage. So yeah, I'm going to use nacho and LS reads as another data point. Not THE data point, but a datapoint nonetheless. And as for the VCA, when I said at the end "if DD is not scum then all the above is thrown out", its clear the implication is "iff DDD is scum, then this", and not "this, ergo DDD is scum."
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In post 667, Fishythefish wrote:I have bad feelings about DCL and Alice I can't really pin down.
eyebrows raised - specifically because you mentioned alice. What happened between #378 and now that caused you to go from "we're not lynching alice her posting feels fairly convincing" to "bad feelings you can't pin down"?-
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Points labeled to match DDD
1) I did not ignore that you had meta and to paint it as such is missing the point. I thought you were being useless while you were lazily parking your vote on nacho, and I think your uselessness was scummy. And I didn't even feel nacho was being useless anyways. I don't have a good meta on you, but I read through both examples posted by someone earlier on and I don't think your play early on in D1 matches either of the games linked. So I threw out the meta and made up my own mind. Why is it that I'm supposed to accept the meta reasoning of others (who I don't know the alignment of by the way) using it to supposedly clear you or nullify the points against you, but using the beliefs of dead players I know are town is junk?
2) No comment not worth my time.
>.>
No I really can't be that snarky. If someone's ignoring my questions or not acknowledging that I just said something, I'm going to assume its because you don't want attention drawn to it and you're trying to sweep it under a rug. Especially when comments are cherry picked out later on from a post that was ignored, like that lyncher comment. So I'm gonna play devil's advocate - suggesting someone is a lyncher or jester is out of left field. OK. Left field is scummy? Why is this something scum would do?
(and what was odd was that you were so concerned with nacho and only nacho at the time, it was as if you had him as a lyncher target. It seemed unnatural for you to be so focused on nacho. That is what I was trynig to say with the lyncher comment. I was hoping the comment would actually get a response out of you then, not the next day to be used as case filler).
3) Its not about how many town reads or scum reads you have, its that you went out looking to find something scummy to say about everyone, except for voided aparently. (even then, you found something negative to say.). I think its a position scum would like to take. For one, it sets you up to be able to vote just about anyone. Its a good way to hide your scum partners in the list of players that are all interchangeable. Nobody can question why you voted A instead of B, because you can just say well they're interchangeable scum reads.
As for taking into consideration the reads of dead townies, that junk because...? Like I said already, its not like I'm taking their opinions as truths, just taking them into consideration, as I would any living player. As I did when 3 or 4 people were telling me that my case on hiplop was weak. Only now I know the opinion was coming from confirmed town, so it holds a little more weight than coming from a living player I don't know the alignment of. As you're telling me to do when you point how people who say your play is not inconsistent with your town play. Just because a player is dead, doesn't make their opinion junk, and it doesn't make their opinion truth either. Its still just a valid opinion to be considered. However I think scum would love to call the opinion of dead townies junk because scum love to kill off threats and generally no one gives another thought to the opinion the townie had before they were killed.
And as for your underlined comment. Don't you worry, I put on my big boy underoo's this morning and concluded you were scum all by myself. I don't recall saying that because any dead player thought you were scum, I think your scum. What I did was reconsider how I felt about macro (just like when I reconsidered how I felt about hiplop), leaving my very own suspicions of you. Don't you worry, I'll be sure to take ALL the credit when you flip scum-
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In post 696, Macrophage wrote:@Rhinox: Why did you not meta Debonair yourself?
I don't go out of my way to meta people. The value of meta isn't worth the time spent doing it. If I've personally played with someone I'll use what I can remember, or sometimes something will spark a recollection that I'll look back into my own games, or if someone posts links to be used as evidence in the current game then I'll consider that, but I just don't have the time to go look up and read through all the past games of everyone I play with.-
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In post 706, Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:the problematic part is that it allows you to look for something anti-town while not looking for scum.
This doesn't make any sense.
In post 706, Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:Intention does not increase accuracy.
But this is true for the living as well as the dead, is it not?
You didn't voice a problem with me or others saying we're going to sheep nacho when he's alive and we don't know his alignment, but all of a sudden when he's dead and confirmed town we're supposed to ignore his opinion because he could be wrong?
Whats the difference between sheeping living nacho, and taking into consideration the opinion of dead nacho (and LS)?-
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In post 709, Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:I think it does.
Whats the difference between looking for anti-town and looking for scum then? Are you saying you knew you were anti town?
In post 709, Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:If you can show me where I said it was acceptable to sheep another player you might have an argument here; but I never said that, so you don't.
So... you only speak out against something you don't find acceptable when it hurts your agenda?-
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In post 736, DCLXVI wrote:In post 734, Macrophage wrote:Also, can you answer the question about that reason for me changing my reads?
sorry, thought I had already answered that.
Your flip on voided is scummy because you start by calling him scum, you then call him town when you are at l-1, then you call him scum again when you are safer. Seems like the read only changed to town because you wanted to save yourself from getting lynched.
If you don't mind could you now answer my question?
What does Macro calling voided town when Macro is at L-1 do to save Macro from getting lynched?-
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OK well I've read through the last 10 pages or so, so I guess I'm officially caught up. But I really don't have anything grounbreaking to say right now. DCL and alice now magua are still townreads for me. From the last 10 pages, I'd add SA and fishy to my stronger town reads as well. fishy's posts after he came back seemed town, and SA for the way he was vocal against the macro wagon. I mean scum can say town is town for cred if/when they flip but I just feel like SA genuinely believes his argument.
I think its obvious only at most 1 of DDD or Macro can be scum. Choosing between the 2 I still prefer DDD but its not as strong of a belief as before.
The rest: {Kortal, Hiplop, Voided, 4nx} - so there's at least 2 and maybe 3 scum in this group if both DDD/Macro are town. I don't think any of them are getting lynched today though.
Mainly I just got very frustrated with the game a week ago, and I kinda checked out. I felt like nobody was getting my cases so I started doubting everything. I kinda feel like I'm reading a different game than everyone else at times. I'll try to be better from now on.-
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In post 921, Fishythefish wrote:DCL was the one who made the me-LS link, and so is probtown for me.
<snip>
VOTE: DCL
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Yeah ok not 4nx with the mason claim.
I think this is the current VC
Macrophage (4) - Voidedmafia, hiplop, Debonair Danny DiPietro, kortul
Debonair Danny DiPietro (3) - rhinox, 4nxi3ty
DCLXVI (4) - fishythefish, Seepless Assassin, Macrophage,
fishythefish (1) - Magua
SA (1) - DCLXVI
Deadline in about 8.5 hours.
DCL - SA really isn't getting lynched today. Magua, neither is fishy.
I really don't like choosing between Macro and DCL. I'm going to renig on what I've been saying though. I like the company on the DCL wagon a lot more than the company on the macro wagon.
unvote, vote DCL
Macrophage (4) - Voidedmafia, hiplop, Debonair Danny DiPietro, kortul
Debonair Danny DiPietro (3) - 4nxi3ty
DCLXVI (6) - fishythefish, Seepless Assassin, Macrophage, rhinox,
fishythefish (1) - Magua
SA (1) - DCLXVI
DCL is at L-1 you should claim ASAP.-
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Yeah so I have similar thinking as magua considering macro-scum, but came to slightly different conclusions.
{voided, hiplop*, DDD} - all 3 were hard on macro D1 and parked votes there all of D2. Only * is hiplop hammered LS instead on staying on macro D1 but one could argue someone had to hammer to prevent a no lynch. My notes had them all currently town, barring any sort of hard core bussing of macro which I won't rule out completely but doesn't seem necessary. Hiplop had the least activity / stuff to say D2 except for to pop in now and then to be all like "OMG why isn't macro lynched yet" so if anyone bussed I'd say it was hiplop over the other 2 but its not where I'm starting today.
I had 4nxi3ty as town which is now confirmed.
I also reaffirm my town read on DCLXVI since he was the main counterwagon and since I already thought funky was town.
That left {SA, kortul, fishy, and magua} as the group I'd be focusing on today and expect to find the remaining scum.
I got that far friday afternoon. I meant to have something to say about each of those 4 by today, but I unexpectedly lost internet over the weekend since friday afternoon so thats all the farther I got.
I feel more focused with a scumflip now so I should have better activity and content today.-
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