NY 172: Another Large Normal (GAME OVER)

[Mister Rogers]

Those are two questions:

1) Didn't his read look bizarre to you? And his opening reads in general (the 3 I mentioned)?
2) What do I need to know about Mastin as to why he's town i.e. why you are reading him as town?

[Mister Rogers]

I am indeed "eyeballing everyone". Yesterday I looked at the ISO of literally every person in the game except yourself (because heavens knows going through your ISO is going to be a chore). I didn't promise that I was going to post detailed reads on every person in the game, because honestly,

most of my thoughts are still going by gut and it wouldn't be useful to do so

. However, if you want a list of my gut feels then

Scum: Luca, aptil, 4nxiety, SnowStorm, bjc
Null: Pisskop, mastin, Nero, yourself, Rach, Yates, DV
Townreads to some degree: Everyone else

I don't think that's a particularly useful exercise

, but

at least you now know where I stand approximately on every player in the game

.

Its very important to have some kind of method of communicating your most important reads. If you are scum it allows for town analysis subsequent to your flip. If you are town it helps others in the town gauge your alignment which is very important in catching scum. This is all very basic mafia theory, don't you already know this?

I think its far better to target lurker voters.

And even as you say this your vote was sitting on bjc.

You are correct. But if you look at my reasons for voting BJC they are mostly to wagon him to provide content because he flat out refused to do so (or simply remove that kind of person from the game) but the

very important

difference is that I have not been tunneling a lurker, making it everything I am doing. The reason that is an important difference is because its very convenient for scum to focus on lurkers instead of getting scum suspects; they aren't around to defend themselves and is just a logical action which has the appearance of being a pro-town action. When someone's ISO only reflects focusing on lurkers, it is suspect for those reasons.

]It's bad to speculate about scum daytalk, except when you do it of course.

The difference is that I didn't specify a particular set of posts when I mentioned daytalk and in fact I was indicating to the ZD-Chem interactions (it would of invalidated the Chem townread). Now granted I tried to use the issue as a tarp and failed but it would of been significant because specifics were used then in an argument.

---

Can you please indicate your posts concerning Anx & Snow that show your thoughts/scum probing?

PS I am sorry if I am coming off as harsh, but I am expecting you to function as someone that has about 2 years of active experience like you said, is that right?

[Mister Rogers]

?????????

I think it was pretty obvious that me and Mastin didn't have the same reads on Luca and you asking me to comment on something that serves no purpose other than cluttering up the thread with a useless discussion. I know you are "new" but players disagree with each other all the time; its not scummy to disagree.

I'm townreading Mastin b/c A.) I don't think he's done anything real scummy and B.)

But I'm a bit curious here...I know Mastin is in your "greys" but why ask me about him?

@Damon-stop "eyeballin'" yo...I'm already spoken for.

Its not just Luca but also Aptil & Thad. I also asked you about those two reads. If you check they are both in my Grey too.

I never said it was scummy to disagree but as someone that was basically "new" to the thread going through those posts AND having a differing opinion on a key read (Luca and the exact same opinion as myself) that you would notice that Mastin's reads looked awful strange, as I did.

It is a key point in my estimation because Mastin is unreadable EXCEPT for his reads.

What do you think of Mastin's reads on Aptil & Thad the way he expressed them?

[Mister Rogers]

I'm townreading Mastin b/c A.) I don't think he's done anything real scummy and B.) I'm far more concerned about other slots.

Ok, this makes sense and I partly agree with you. I think much will be resolved with the Mastin catchup.

[Mister Rogers]

@DV: There is scum motivation to go against the grain on ZD-Chem.

You also have provided 7 reads in a 20 player game. You could just go through and fill in the remaining 12;

especially Mastin

.

I'm probably only likely to actually do it if I believe you're genuinely interested in my opinion. This post makes me think that you're just asking me to do it for the sake of it?

Well I specifically did mention Mastin and I was hoping you would at least do that one?

[Mister Rogers]

The other thing - err I don't even know what you're getting at. I knew AP didn't have info on Luca (or at least, strongly suspected he didn't), and if he actually did I would have dropped it immediately on a say-so. Turns out he didn't, so I am still Not seeing the issue with wagonning the crap out of lurkers while we have a week on the clock. Apparently that's scummy, to want content from lurkers.

That's not what you're doing. You are cog-dis being an experienced player but:

I've never been so lost in a game of Mafia.

I mean which player are you the one that is waiting patiently with PoE or this:

Can we just wagon someone please? At this stage I don't even care if it's me.

You are posturing here because you "know" that nobody is going to take you up on it.

Kick your game into gear or get lynched.

[Mister Rogers]

How many scum do you think are in the lurkers? (And seriously if you say 25% I'm just going to ignore you for a bit because obviously you don't give a crap about OUR GAME THAT WE'RE PLAYING RIGHT NOW), so Tia for a measured response.

:S

So you and DG are synching up on this then huh?

That's not the only synching up that's going with DG either or with Matt.

[Mister Rogers]

?????????

I think it was pretty obvious that me and Mastin didn't have the same reads on Luca and you asking me to comment on something that serves no purpose other than cluttering up the thread with a useless discussion. I know you are "new" but players disagree with each other all the time; its not scummy to disagree.

I'm townreading Mastin b/c A.) I don't think he's done anything real scummy and B.)

But I'm a bit curious here...I know Mastin is in your "greys" but why ask me about him?

@Damon-stop "eyeballin'" yo...I'm already spoken for.

Its not just Luca but also Aptil & Thad. I also asked you about those two reads. If you check they are both in my Grey too.

I never said it was scummy to disagree but as someone that was basically "new" to the thread going through those posts AND having a differing opinion on a key read (Luca and the exact same opinion as myself) that you would notice that Mastin's reads looked awful strange, as I did.

It is a key point in my estimation because Mastin is unreadable EXCEPT for his reads.

What do you think of Mastin's reads on Aptil & Thad the way he expressed them?

Your original question was about Mastin's Luca read. I don't remember you asking about Apitil and Thad. Can you quote this?

Those are two questions:

1) Didn't his read look bizarre to you? And his opening reads in general (the 3 I mentioned)?

but still...I don't see how this conversation benefits town at all.

I have alot of respect for you as a player and I can only think that you are kind of reaching with this.

1) Every one of those reads are a key point in my take on this game and I am a town player in this game, I count too. You are also a very experienced player that shares at least one of my reads (but I barfed on DG's post just like you too).

2) Asking players for their reads is helpful to the town. Don't forget you are practically "replacing in" here and your take on the game counts.

3) I mean c'mon this question? I don't need to go on and on about it.

You seem really concerned with Mastin for little to no reason. Mastin is grey for you (I'm assuming that is null leaning scum) and I don't understand why you'd waste so much energy on someone that has very little chance of being the days lynch as apposed to trying to rally the town to lynch your top scum suspect.

Fair enough. I don't want those reads of his to be buried in the sands of time; they struck me as bad enough but the reason I am asking YOU is because you saw the same thing on Luca that I did -- the exact same thing and Mastin didn't. I mean reading Mastin is important, at least I think it is.

And if you are so concerned with Mastin then why haven't you had a convo with AP? Or have you had one and you can show this to me?

AP hasn't had a convo with me.

I don't care about Mastin...I don't care about Apitil...I don't care about Thad.

Thanks for the help.

The only thing I do care about is lynching your scum ass

Bring it big man. And you'd also better bring a strong town game because right now you look like tunneling scum.

[Mister Rogers]

I'm just being a lazy half drunk fuck and taking a day off, but do you have a read on me yet?

I pretty much have a gut reaction to everyone. If you consider that a read then town since you are reminding me of the first game we played. Most of ya'll should already know that if I find something that I think needs to be yelled about...then I'll yell about.

Anyways, more Rogers votes plox.

FAIL. Try again and stop the lazy scum shtick.

[Mister Rogers]

1. What's wrong with having

only

townreads?

FTFY.

2. I have provided essentially most of my major reads, cases pending.

Can I see specifically? Your ISO doesn't appear to have these...

3. Where have I not generated reads on my own? Who did I steal them from?

Zdenek do you have the sparknotes version of why I, personally, should vote Talah?

Here you are

actually

asking someone

else

why you should have a scum read on Talah. This is case fishing. It

might

be OK if your ISO had its own scum suspects but I don't find those.

It was delicious. But do you know what isn't delicious? Mafia.

Unvote

Vote: Yates

What's your read on Yates?

The problem here is that you just got done voting Yates with what can only be seen as an introduction to a case. You don't provide that case and instead

immediately

query me for my reads. Again, your ISO devoid of case material makes this much worse.

4. I probably have become the biggest BJC defender in the thread. You think my defense is illogical in spite of literally hiveminding the same logic as me, though. Explain?

I do not have the same logic. You are town leaning him. I have said that is WIFOM. Now you are right, I DID have the same read before he went all defiant and so I updated my read and I explained that to you.

My "point" here which really is only a note for future reference should either of you flip scum, is that you came in pushing very hard against any BJC voting and at the same time voted Yates who was also voting BJC. Its simply a note of this.

Furthermore, your defense of BJC read as ott to me & your push on me about "bigger fish" while you were voting Aptil also read as fake posturing.

5. The primary thing of your -case- seems to be that I haven't done a wall explaining my internal logic yet. I will man, don't worry, the day is young!

With less than a week to deadline we are no longer young? I prefer "Sieze the day! Let's catch these scum now before we have a rushed deadline!". Yes, case material in your ISO; I need to see it!

I am not familiar with the beetlejuice tell. Although it's now been brought to light that aptil isn't lurking intentionally - at the time Mr. Rodgers made that post,

there was no clear distinction as to whether or not Aptil was lurking intentionally or lurking due to internet problems

.

"Simply" lurking and "intentionally" lurking seem like the exact same thing, I believe the correct term might be "intentionally" lurking and "unintentionally" lurking

.

No they are not the same. Simply lurking is someone who's intention is unknown. Intentionally lurking is someone says "I am content with lurking. kthxbai."

There was a profile on Aptil with him stating his

intention

to actually post substance. But that's not the issue. The issue is that you promised a case on Aptil but never delivered and more importantly, your ISO consisted of Aptil and

nothing else

followed by a vapid case on Yates.

[Mister Rogers]

@Mister Rogers

- you do seem to be saying something then doing the opposite and calling people out for things you are also doing.

These are accusations which I have addressed with both DG & Matt.

This is my start for the day. Let's get moving people, we only have 168 hours to save the Earth!!

Here, here!

[Mister Rogers]

vibeing on snow's ISO like it ain't right, like something to do with scumread of Damon
And I wish Yates had

a

comment about me or the events surrounding me, but there's alot going on in this game sooo maybe just paranoia there?

AP's certainty makes me want to recheck talah, but there were some comments I liked, I'll try to find them again

Please do. Please.

[Mister Rogers]

LOOK HOW MUCH FUN WE'RE HAVING!!!

Haha that is funny. You are coming across as town to me, as is Pisskop, so I will go ahead and UNVOTE: Pisskop

VOTE: 4nxi3ty

Still catching up for me. But this is enough for me to NOT vote Anx and super lynch Luca. Talk about Beetlejuice.

[Mister Rogers]

Before: Luca Blight [3] (Damon_Gant, 4nxi3ty, talah)
...
After: 4nxi3ty [4] (ThAdmiral, Damon_Gant, talah, Luca Blight)

This looks funny, in a bad way. Can we just lynch them all?

I like your thinking but didn't you promise some large amounts of posting earlier? Like you know, looking at the active posters and such? Like anywhere but DG?

[Mister Rogers]

Rogers, I have - what - half a dozen? Eight? - completed games under my belt including a couple I replaced out of. Where you're getting the idea that I'm some kind of superscum or supertown I have no idea. Historically I've been able to town pretty hard by screaming and raging, but I really don't like that aspect of myself. So yeah, I have some *personal* cog-dis, but unless it's related to me gaining some kind of scum-benefit - what's the purpose of even pointing it out?

Because to me it indicates that someone is manufacturing a mindset. The AtE rage out of nowhere didn't fit the game situation. Its a pattern you've done it at least twice.

I know its bizarre but this post sums it up:

basically, there's nothing genuine about talah's posting; it's hollow, shallow, easily faked and overall just feeling plain empty. He's playing a highly-reactionary game rather than a proactive one, and overall, he feels like he's not scumhunting; he feels like he's trying to get a feeling for how to manipulate players.

I about fell out of my chair when I read this in your ISO because its come true.

[Mister Rogers]

AP hasn't had a convo with me.

1) Didn't his read look bizarre to you? And his opening reads in general (the 3 I mentioned)?
2) What do I need to know about Mastin as to why he's town i.e. why you are reading him as town?

1) Quick gut reads and updating them constantly is sort of a mastin thing in general. Im annoyed that shes V/LA but shes not posting anywhere on site so -shrug-. Shes not one to flake though, so she'll be back.
2) Im not really willing to call mastin town yet. Reading mastin is more of an art than a science . Weve discussed it multiple times and I think the best way I can describe it is her heart just isn't in the posts she makes when shes scum. Shes capable of faking it thought which is the scary part, gotta look for the cracks. She gets misread a TON for meta and shes actually pretty good at mimicking townmeta as scum.

/meta.

Yes, I read this on my catchup. Its a nice start and thank you for your reads there.

[Mister Rogers]

What is OTT? I've seen it twice now.

Over the top.

[Mister Rogers]

I meant Aptil not Ap as in the angry bird.

So whats so scummy about Aptil?

Only real post of content is 595. And it's not delightfully good, either.

And that's scummier than Luca? I don't see how.

For what its worth, I actually agree here. Before Luca's scummy vote of Anx and especially now.

However, it appears Nero has skimmed and pretended to catch up.

[Mister Rogers]

@Snow: Well I certainly agree with your take on the Anx wagon.

[Mister Rogers]

reaction to nero?

Nero being Nero. Completely null. He takes more than a day to read.

Ok. I still don't like his "I don't care" statements and if reading will show that he isn't tunneling then he'll probably be fine as he is mostly off to a good start.

[Mister Rogers]

@Matt: Are you from the UK?

[Mister Rogers]

reaction to nero?

Nero being Nero. Completely null. He takes more than a day to read.

Ok. I still don't like his "I don't care" statements and if reading will show that he isn't tunneling then he'll probably be fine as he is mostly off to a good start.

Otherwise he's tunnel coasting on meta.

[Mister Rogers]

@Matt: Are you from the UK?

Are you that British guy that I pegged in Politics Mafia?

I also wouldn't mind if Rache dies sometime soonish.

I didn't like her last post either but I am cutting a gurl a break for being sick.

I am not from the UK. I have never played with you but I am impressed with your reputation.

[Mister Rogers]

I'm just being a lazy half drunk fuck and taking a day off, but do you have a read on me yet? <=== hmmm really?

I pretty much have a gut reaction to everyone. If you consider that a read then town since you are reminding me of the first game we played.

Most of ya'll

should already know that if I find something that I think needs to be yelled about...then I'll yell about.

Anyways, more Rogers votes plox

The red is your meta appeal to the players. The underlined is an example of tunneling which also includes Luca (even though I agree with the read)

because at this point you don't have any other reads that I can tell

.

I hope I read more from you other than inquiries like this.

[Mister Rogers]

Wait a minute? you are scum reading Talah cause he uses a Southern slang term for the plural you?

No. I am pointing out that Nero has coasted through a catchup (at least his shark is yummy with ketchup) while calling upon meta to explain his lack of reads and various game views. Constrast this with AP, PK & almost done (errm we have a weather duplication here errm) Sno(?).

[Mister Rogers]

Wait a minute? you are scum reading Talah cause he uses a Southern slang term for the plural you?

You don't get that the "y'all" is referencing multiple players in this game and that it is a meta appeal to those players?

[Mister Rogers]

ok so I'm "tunneling" on you. Its towns job to get their scum suspects lynched so you getting "tunneled" on and then whining about getting tunneled on only makes me want to kill you faster.

Who cares who you are tunneling on? The point is, so far you have coasted what appears to a fake catchup. Catchup properly. You haven't done so.

[Mister Rogers]

Why are you reading MR as scumz, Nero? I don't see it? Though like I said that comment about grammar was a bit off. But town also split hairs, especially early on.

I'm scum reading him for cluttering up the thread, I don't like his reactions or responses to me, that convo we had about Mastin's reads seems massively dumb AND he called me a tunnel.

Are you being lazy or just disingenuous. Your refusal to provide reads by calling it stupid is "scumtastic". Your meta is no excuse for your shoddy play here. Get with it.

[Mister Rogers]

Umm he is from Tennessee that is how they talk. Of course he is going to try to convince other players of his reads on people and since y'all is used as a plural for you there, it is natural it comes up in his speech patterns, you are hair splitting.

What is wrong with meta anyways MR? I use it all the time.

Rach are you feeling better now? I am looking forward to seeing solid contributions from you if so.

Please stop focusing on some kind of weird southern dialect that has absolutely nothing to do with it.

I will say this one more, one last time:

He is meta appealing to multiple players to excuse his coasted catchup.

What's wrong with meta appeals? Well generally they suck because past behavior is being cited by a person who can manipulate their present behavior. Its worse and scummy when it is used to explain away bad/scummy behavior.

I am not going to let Nero slide through a catchup like that and neither should anyone else.

[Mister Rogers]

No. I am pointing out that Nero has coasted through a catchup (at least his shark is yummy with ketchup) while calling upon meta to explain his lack of reads and various game views. Constrast this with AP, PK & almost done (errm we have a weather duplication here errm) Sno(?).

You know, I think that players hold secret competitions to see who can get the most reads correct the fastest and so they just blurt out a bunch of reads but I'm not a douche like that so meh.

You supposedly read through alot of material. If you don't provide data from it, how are we supposed to know you even did it at all. You did seem confused on my 3 player reference that certainly doesn't indicate you were "into" the thread.

Yates is putting faith in you and I am willing to do the same but from the tone of your posting it doesn't sound like its going too good so far.

But if you think I was coasting through a catchup then why do you not find that scummy?

I already have check my post where I said so. I would put more effort into your game than posts like these.

[Mister Rogers]

So you are scumreading me right?

Your "catchup" is scummy so far. Your read on Luca & Aptil is good. Your read on Mastin seems convenient for the type of player that he is but maybe its your failure to explain which isn't great either.

I don't see any great depth in your play. Yates says this can take awhile. Ok. I'm waiting but I'm not going to sit around at let you pretend you're all caught up and everything.

Because if this continues, ya you're scum.

[Mister Rogers]

MR are you an alt? Or have you played on other sites? You do not feel like someone who just started playing Mafia a few months ago

What's my join date?

[Mister Rogers]

This page looks like crap. We need to stop this garbage posting.

[Mister Rogers]

Ok, I apologize. I misread your query. Yes I have played Mafia over a period of years. I have also mentioned this in this thread.

I thought you said I appeared like someone that just started a few months ago and it would of made your question kind of nonsensical. Sorry.

[Mister Rogers]

I will be very very upfront about this. I don't believe in hiding behind alts. I think games designed for that purpose are incredibly incredibly fun. The account on this site that I am surprised is even still here is: Lamont_Cranston.

[Mister Rogers]

@Nero: I forgot. Your read on DG as you stated it looked good too.

[Mister Rogers]

I have read a good number of games on site. Your name is mentioned with respect frequently.

[Mister Rogers]

I can't mention the one game I have read with you in it. If you were tunneling someone and had substantial game data that showed a genuine catchup, I wouldn't have a problem.

What is your read on Anx? Your opinion of the Anx wagon?

[Mister Rogers]

Wow. Scum pushing the wagon?

[Mister Rogers]

LOL. Ikr?

My major concern is that he is low hanging fruit and thus an easy bus. Like we could do better?

[Mister Rogers]

ummmm

your original question was in 710

@nero: Excellent Luca read btw.

Could you please comment on Mastin's Luca read?

Thanks.

So why did you just

LIE

to me and tell me that your OQ was in 724?

You're being extremely nitpicky on a point that you seem to think is important. The post flow is very clear and there OBVIOUSLY was no lie involved.

You are also dodging the fact that you refused to comment on Thad & Aptil which if you had just completed a catchup should of been easy for you.

1. Ok....that still doesn't explain why its important to disscus Mastin's reads.

You skipped over why I explained that? Mastin is unreadable except for his reads by his own admission; granted AP thinks there are cracks that appear but everyone in this thread has (it seems like) has given Mastin a pass on his description of his own meta which doesn't seem safe to me; I don't get how you can EVEN be harping on this point.

2. Yeah but there's a HUGE diffrence between asking MY reads and asking about MY COMMENTS ON ANOTHER PLAYERS READS.

I asked for both and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. You refusing however is another story.

So what....you think Mastin is scum with Luca and therefore Mastin gave his buddy a town read?

How do I know? But I see no reason to town read Mastin like everyone else seems to be doing based on those reads; apparently you think so too.

I mean its not impossible but why not just ask me that? To me thats the only reason I can see why you were asking me about MASTIN'S reads. But you didn't just come right out and say it wich comes across as deceptive and I see very little reason for town to be deceptive.

Again, you totally glossed over my already explained reasoning. This means you either are lazy or lazy scum. With the accusing me of lying and trying to create some kind of scenario there, I can only think its scum.

However, it appears Nero has skimmed and pretended to catch up.

I see we have reached the potshot portion of our evening. I also never really claimed this. I've read to page 14 commented on what I felt was worthy of a comment and then was drawn into some bizarre conversation about Mastin's reads.

Ok, you've read to page 14 and THAT'S ALL YOU HAD TO SAY? Something is not right with that picture.

reaction to nero?

Nero being Nero. Completely null. He takes more than a day to read.

Ok. I still don't like his "I don't care" statements and if reading will show that he isn't tunneling

I feel like this is a slight misrepersentation. Its not that I don't care about the players and thier slot its that I really don't care about Mastin's reads on them and

I don't think Mastin having wierd reads is nessisarily an alignment tell

.

Well thank you very much for finally humbling yourself and explaining. I am tending to agree here with AP and his statement that Mastin throws out and corrects reads and that the missing portion of this process is the fact that he was V/LA.

My gosh why are you pushing such a crappy attack like this?

[Mister Rogers]

I think it was pretty obvious that me and Mastin didn't have the same reads on Luca and you asking me to comment on something that serves no purpose other than cluttering up the thread with a useless discussion. I know you are "new" but players disagree with each other all the time; its not scummy to disagree.

Pretty obvious? No, what is pretty obvious is that you aren't reading my posts. I clearly explained that you and I had the same reaction on Luca & OK you disagree that Mastin having crappy reads is a scum tell BUT YOU DIDN'T SAY THAT UNTIL NOW as part of some crappy tarp. If you had been genuine about your catchup, this post wouldn't be happening.

Besides you trying to remove any room for me to scum hunt YOU is very disturbing. I think you know YOUR reads are alignment indicative; why didn't you answer my questions? Why are you now answering them as some kind of bad attack?

[Mister Rogers]

I have to admit though, that double speed wall was pretty impressive.

[Mister Rogers]

i am getting a T v T feel from the froofroo tween Nero and MR

dudes maybe should look at other players...

What do you think of Anx? Those on the Anx wagon?

[Mister Rogers]

Oh, I think its finally dawning on me. See, I'm Bert! I'm an easy target. I'm simply clogging the thread. Hey Gaiz, it's me Nero! Lynch this Bert alt with me, I'll holla if I have any better reads! Peace out!

Nero, produce a town game.

[Mister Rogers]

LOL. Man I want to so bad. Follow you there? Not so much.

[Mister Rogers]

@Talah: Why isn't Anx scum?

[Mister Rogers]

Why do we still have no wagons forming.

You were on a pretty nice sized wagon. Why did you just weaken it?

[Mister Rogers]

Dang Talah are you even scum hunting??

[Mister Rogers]

@Talah: Ok, so you were on the Anx wagon, why?

[Mister Rogers]

LOL. Man I want to so bad. Follow you there? Not so much.

You should be able to make your decisions on who to vote independently of what I might or mightn't do. Like I said anyway, if there's no sliver of doubt in your mind that I'm scum, you should be selling my scum-virtues to everyone else and asking them to vote me. I don't see that.

So you're in a position where you must doubt that one of Luca or I is scum, because if we're both scum, then you shouldn't have a problem helping me bus my buddy. Are you hesitating because you called everyone voting lurkers scum, so now that you're scum reading Luca you can't vote him because you know you'll be called a hypocrite for it?

Well since you are pushing this point, no I am hesitating because (and these are the thought processes that I am trying to disentangle atm) even though Luca is scum central and everything in me says lynch him immediately, he is also a lurker and I am simply wondering if the resulting wagon will be poor upon his death. He is in my scum list, I totally want to lynch him and right now BUT can we do better? The thought occurs to me that Luca might get sorted and we can focus elsewhere today.

Its true. I need someone to help me think that through. Because if we just base it on actions in-thread and think of nothing else, Luca needs speed lynching and I would of been on that wagon ahead of you (in this case).

@Talah: Why isn't Anx scum?

It may surprise you to know that I don't have a strong opinion one way or the other on 4nx. I voted him because I like Admiral for town, and LOL NO WAGONS

Well this is at least consistent with your previously stated game plan BUT why don't you care either way? I HET lynching town D1.

Why do we still have no wagons forming.

You were on a pretty nice sized wagon. Why did you just weaken it?

We need to get some *viable* wagons happening. It seems like there might be some consensus here.

I'm just going to be honest, that is exactly how I think as scum; I'm looking for the most lynchable target and I weigh the opinions of all the players to find consensus so I know who to lynch.

See as town, I'm like who is the scummiest player, THE VERY SCUMMIEST that I can be voting for AND THEN, if it is even appropriate to consider consensus, do I consider that.

Your mindset doesn't seem to be what I would consider town at all. It would fit better to explain someone that wants to get back to their scum Q/T instead.

Why don't you mention anything about who is scummier?

Dang Talah are you even scum hunting??

Not as much as I'd like to be. Quite a bit of my time has been spent trying to extricate myself from shitty pushes.

I HET this excuse. Do you see me caving under Nero pressure? Ok, can you explain your time pressure issues in ANY WAY?

I'm not sure if you're aware that you having three times the amount of posts than Zdenek, the next top poster, tends to make things incredibly hard to find a natural flow to. Especially when you appear to believe you're the "leader" and (possibly depending on your alignment) being very "pro-town" about it too.

I am not "the leader" except of myself. Everyone is the leader. Everyone has a keyboard and is logged into the forum.

You are blaming my posting volume on your lack of scum hunting?? Or no its all the attacks against you.

You need to be well dead long before we get anywhere near a lylo situation. For the record.

DANGIT. This takes the cake. NOW you're the EXPERT PLAYER judging who needs to be in LYLO. You can't scum hunt worth a dime. You whine about only having 8 games. You float from wagon to wagon without a care. You blame everyone and everything you possibly can. But you're an expert.

Seriously you need to check Wiki Rules 1-3 because you fit all of them to a T.

Follow you to Luca? No way.

[Mister Rogers]

I've never been so lost in a game of Mafia.

This is what we need in LYLO?

The truth is, I think Talah is more than competent. That's why this post and all the excuse making makes him scum. The cog-dis is just too much.

[Mister Rogers]

What do you think of Luca's jump onto the 4nx wagon?

Well since everything is out in the open. I think its an unforgivable offense.

Go read Hito's thread on compromising as town in MD.

Either link or tell me what it says. I prefer you tell me.

I'm saying your posting volume is jamming the thread with useless dross which you're not even doing anything sensible with.

Link my wiki now and read Rule #1. Hopefully you won't be locked in there for an eternity.

What I know about you, is that you have a scumread on me which is incorrect, and you won't vote your own scumread Luca, because another of your scumreads (me) is calling Luca scum. Among other things.

I never said that. Luca AND you can both be scum, a reduced chance of course, but my hesitating to vote Luca has nothing to do with you voting him and I already explained that but you either didn't read it or wish not to acknowledge it.

I have a similar unsubstantiated attack for you: I think you have been wagon hopping to save your skin and since your game play is so lackluster and filled with excuses, you are doing it to save your scum hide.

So yeah if you're town I don't want you in a position where you have sole responsibility for any decision in this game.

So ya, if you're town you have a funny way of showing it; please read Rule #2 (if you are able to get out of Rule #1) and ya you need to hang.

[Mister Rogers]

Ya, "I'm town because I know it even though my play doesn't show it and even so, you are a danger to the universe".

Gotta love that one.

[Mister Rogers]

OMGOSH. HEADDESK.

I freaking give up.

Talah learn how to play Mafia.

Let me guess: "Since I'm town you lynch me and when I flip town you lynch Rogers."

Now I'm an oracle.

[Mister Rogers]

Mate, if you have a wiki with opinions it's just as likely as filled with bullshit as your posting in this game.

If I post BS, you need to point it out but seeing as you haven't... (WELP).

Not only that but you have Z-E-R-O scum hunting at all period.

You dare criticize me for posting? Die scum.

Oh - and seeing you're having a whole lot of trouble getting *other* folks to want to vote me, but rather are just engaging in pointless back-and-forth, half concessions and pandering to folks who are scumhunting on you, here, have this:

If I am having trouble then there is no problem right? I mean no pressure, this Bert alt is derp voting me, big freaking deal. I'm gonna catch me some scum because I'm a quality player not a derp like Bert-alt over there.

But your response? Go into orbit and self-vote.

More cog-dis. More out of place AtE.

Wanna see the king of cog-dis?

I'm making it my purpose in this game to make sure that you get vigged or lynched before - let's say Day 3, if

I

happen to be around long enough.

Somebody is planning on this self-vote to keep him around for days to come. Sure he throws in "if I'm around" at the end but his intent is clear.

Also, has site meta changed? Do people just self-vote all the time now as a defense?

[Mister Rogers]

I always go toe to toe with scummy play.

Lock In Vote: Talah

[Mister Rogers]

@Town:

Talah learn how to play Mafia.

Let me guess: "Since I'm town you lynch me and when I flip town you lynch Rogers."

See there? Rogers just acknowledged that I'm town

I acknowledged what your argument will be. It has nothing to do with your alignment. Your alignment has been determined by the way you've played.

and yet he's voting me and not pushing for my lynch

Don't make me quote my posts. I have pushed your lynch and it is more than apparent that I have a case on you in my posting.

over his 5-6 scumreads which he claims everyone should have, and that he's also not pushing.

That also is a lie. Check my ISO. Look at DG. Look at Matt. Ok Anx I have been ignoring but ya I have posted my views clearly and I have posted to him begging for more content. Luca cannot be pushed but I have been more than clear.

He's expressing doubt that I'm scum - whereas Luca is almost a shoo-in for scum, were it not for the fact that I was voting Luca. But he won't VOTE Luca, his top scumread.

I have clearly expressed my opinions on Luca and am awaiting input from people on my thoughts. I think we can do better than Luca and I think you're clearly it.

What's with that? You don't tell SCUM to learn to play mafia when they're in practically no danger of being lynched, do you?

Bad null play is not alignment indicative. Its just bad null play.

You vote your scumreads based on unflipped associative tells, don't you?

Unflipped? No I vote my scum reads based on 1) The chances of them being scum (primary), 2) The benefits to town from their lynch (secondary if applicable).

I personally like that you are a higher tier of scum than Luca and would be of more benefit to lynch.

OMGOSH. HEADDESK.

I freaking give up.

But.. What's there to give up on? Is Rogers trying to prove I'm scum to myself? Is he trying to educate me to make me a better player? What exactly is Rogers "giving up" on?

I HET bad Mafia play. Bad null play is still bad play.

It makes no sense if Rodgers believes I'm scum.

My views on your alignment have nothing to do with you self-voting. That's between you and the mirror.

[Mister Rogers]

Mastin is also un-pushable.

[Mister Rogers]

DISCLAIMER: I have found Bert to be a somewhat skilled player but I find his play to be passive and fluffy. So no offense to Bert, just using information in-thread.

[Mister Rogers]

Rogers is posting like he STILL NEEDS TO SORT ME, not like he already has me pegged for scum and wants others to help him lynch me.

Quote the posts. I am very clear that you are scum and why. On attack however, I do sort who I am attacking; analyzing their defense for alignment indication.

Oh - and seeing you're having a whole lot of trouble getting *other* folks to want to vote me, but rather are just engaging in pointless back-and-forth, half concessions and pandering to folks who are scumhunting on you, here, have this:

If I am having trouble then there is no problem right? I mean no pressure, this Bert alt is derp voting me, big freaking deal. I'm gonna catch me some scum because I'm a quality player not a derp like Bert-alt over there.

But your response? Go into orbit and self-vote.

More cog-dis. More out of place AtE.

Hmm - I'm having trouble deciphering Roger's point here. Surely HE'S the Bert alt. Why would he need to ASSERT that he's a quality player? Isn't that a judgement that OTHERS need to make?

No that is me theoretically speaking as youself. In other words, since I am a derp player then what is the big deal that I am voting you? You only have 2 votes. That IS cog-dis.

Code: Select all

having only 2 total people voting on a weak wagon <> going ape crap and self-voting.

You don't drive on, you melt down.

Combine that with calling allies, buddying Nero, preemptively town-posting yourself with self-meta AND no scum hunting, excuse making, wagon hopping and its just a very scummy profile all around.

[Mister Rogers]

To make this as very plain as possible:

you're having a whole lot of trouble getting *other* folks to want to vote me

DOES NOT EQUAL

His response of melting down & self-voting

Something is causing this imbalance. I assert that the "something" is exaggerated over-sensitivity to suspicion. I personally feel this more of a scum trait than a town trait.

But no mind. His game profile speaks for itself.

PEDIT: Yikes moar excuses ho!

[Mister Rogers]

Actually Talah's play improved substantially after my early attack. If anything the side effect of my attack was A VERY STRONG TOWN PROFILE which view I held for some time. Then he posted the "I'm lost" and upon examining his ISO and sifting his responses to that query, I have held him as scum ever since. Had he continued on as strongly I would of not suspected him probably all game.

[Mister Rogers]

I also find it funny that Talah finds my reads from page 12 repulsive, switched from town-reading the slot that had no content, to "might lynch" without ever interacting with me at all.

Good scumhunting bro.

Btw, I just re-ISO'ed you and I think I understand why people are town reading you so hard after your catchup. I was going to wait to see like your reads post. So far ya, very townie.

But your main? Who is it?

[Mister Rogers]

Talah, so much digging going on. He claims I am a shoe-in for scum (absolute rubbish, since when has inactivity always equated to scum) and then self-votes. His opening posts also looked every so slightly dodgy.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Talah

Gosh you know how to speak? Seriously I was about to quote your post and simply say "You're a shoe-in for scum".

If you're town please demonstrate this by getting into the game.

If you're scum, keep jumping on popular wagons and disappearing.

PS I like the addition of words and reasoning. Are you going to be active now?

[Mister Rogers]

4nxi3ty (mostly for 213 as it completely ignores that he's actually proving himself that town do indeed have doubt)

Nice thread research but what exactly do you mean? Is he somehow asserting that town shouldn't have doubt?

[Mister Rogers]

Ah that reminds, I've actually changed my mind about Pisskop. I kind of liked the way he responded to me last night. I think his reads are pretty bad but I can see what he's doing.

+1 Wow I think I am very glad you are here.

[Mister Rogers]

MR comes around to scumreading him, and voila, MR is a magical lynch option. I'm sure Pisskop's misguided attention towards him helped Talah decide this was a good idea.

My take on it was that it was a progression. Initially I think he thought he could manipulate me (coercion into voting lurkers) & buddy me (compliment me on BJC improving the game state) but once it became official (I posted my short scum list & re-voted him), he named me as a scum suspect.

[Mister Rogers]

A lot of people are townreading him; noone's prepared to back his positions. It's just something that needs to be called out for the crap it is.

I accept criticism. I've never seen you trying to call out anything. Your own case against you does not count.

[Mister Rogers]

You wanna know who did call me out? Pere, DG & Matt (and earlier AP & Yates). Did I bite their head off or go all ad hom on them? No, I simply explained my position. I haven't seen you do the same thing.

[Mister Rogers]

Ah that reminds, I've actually changed my mind about Pisskop. I kind of liked the way he responded to me last night. I think his reads are pretty bad but I can see what he's doing.

+1 Wow I think I am very glad you are here.

See, in this instance I don't even know what Rogers is saying. Is he saying that Snork is town? Is he saying that pisskop it town? Both? Is he buddying Snork?

Who knows. Certainly not anyone.

Thanks for actually asking in thread. I am reading something very similar on PK and am using the exact same words to describe it. I believe that Snor's catchup (cats in ketchup are not yummy tho) post was incredibly townie. If he is scum he has mastered the art of catching up. I do find it bizarre that you could of scum read him from that catchup and especially since it wasn't even near complete when you formed the read.

[Mister Rogers]

I wouldn't call that progression - at least not a natural one.

I can only use (amazingly enough) Mastin's words: "He is looking for ways to manipulate people".

[Mister Rogers]

I get what MR is saying with 992.

You do!? Oh man I bet I could name a particular post number and be right. I bet you saw that post too!

Does this mean PK can't be scum? Definitely it does not (and he IS crafty enough I bet to pull it off) but for now I support his mission.

[Mister Rogers]

I get what MR is saying with 992.

Is he saying that he's reading both you and pisskop as town then?

I believe he's trying to say he likes the thought process. His agreement or disagreement isn't included, and I believe it would imply he is town-reading me. His stance on pisskop isn't really relevant here, imo. I could just be on an ego trip but that's what I got out of it.

MR - would you agree with my interpretation?

Ok maybe we missed the boat. I was referring to your

adjusted

read of PK along with your excellent replace-in; both of these together as a whole.

On PK, I noted your initial view and I was actually watching for the reversal because I was expecting it. On your catchup, it was massively transparent & sincere. I do happen to agree with close to all your reads as well.

[Mister Rogers]

I don't "do" meta unless it's shoved in my face

+1

So you're saying you're being scummy. What do we do with people who are being scummy?

Well I suppose "we the undefined collective", in answer to a question which rams a broken pool cue into the orifice of the notion that specificity is possible to convey using the English language, attempt to clarify both the premise and the question first.

"So you're saying you're being scummy"

No, I asked Sakura why she didn't challenge my inconsistency. It turns out I'm not on her radar, and that she has Levi on the mind. I accept that response because it means she

does

have an agenda and it looks to be scumhunting. I'll keep a peripheral eye on her and see.

If you really want to know, I voted Sakura because - priorities and priorities. Nati and I vote-teaming is a useful strategy, I think, and I'm a bit disappointed Des didn't follow along (although I missed the fact he was already voting Majiffy in the first place, which may have been a bit offputting).

My understanding - or idea - with the voting pool is that there's an inherent 'unvote before lynch' agreement between all members. It's something I'm inviting my town-leaning reads to participate and interact in.

Spoiler:

You're not invited because your dropped-logic argument on pieguyn was oblivious of the context of pie getting involved in the conversation to begin with. It wasn't an assertion that (s)he made in the first place, to be accountable as scummy for dropping it.

"What do we do with people who are being scummy?"

We? Do you mean good mafia players? Good scumhunters? Yourself notionally as part of one of these groups? Yourself by extension onto the universe of how you think all Mafia players should act?
People? Me? Your grouping of all people who act scummily according to you? People who act in the same way as I am acting?
Scummy? The way I acted in this particular sequence? The assertion you are making?

I suppose one would attempt to scumhunt, assess or assert.
Determine the motivations of the non-specific players who "are being scummy".

---

Couple of follow-ups because I'm tired and have some work over the weekend.

Majiffy

- something about something about three posts. I can't remember what you said but you're irritating me using your weight on someone I've already townread probably when you thought it was still RVS. Get off pie.
Also I'm taking keen mental notes on your interactions with Deas.

dolittle

- another one. another naked townread. I don't know where you're getting this stuff from. Because you're not saying.

kayne

- where'd you go?

---

My next post will probably have "fame", "lurksack" and "hall" in the title.

Check out that awesome scum hunting post from Talah. Do you see anything like that in his ISO in this game? Its not cherry picked. Do his ISO in that game and you will see what I mean.

Sure he towns himself in that game but the active scum hunting like in that game? The active calling people out constantly? No. He definitely isn't lost in that game and its a Large Theme.

[Mister Rogers]

I townread Rogers from that, actually, because he was inferring that we'd get the most information by lynching someone

he thought was scum

(BJC).

I didn't think he was scum (but I definitely didn't town read him). The game state would be repaired by his removal and if he ended up being scum that would be a benefit.

[Mister Rogers]

Lol@Rogers

Literally every player in the post he quoted is town.

If he's looking for scum-me, why not start with my scum game?

THE MIND FUCKING BOGGLES

Please explain to me how being right about your suspects has anything to do with that meta point. I didn't mention scum hunting

prowess

, I simply mentioned scum hunting AT ALL. You haven't done any of it this game.

[Mister Rogers]

@DV: What do you think about the Gundam Seed meta post I found? Why is there such a stark difference between town Talah there and Talah's play here?

[Mister Rogers]

@DV: Also, you played in that game with him. How come you didn't notice the difference in his play?

[Mister Rogers]

@Talah: Are you and DV scum buddies?

[Mister Rogers]

I'm here. I can explain anything you like from Talah's points (the best I understand them) or my own (I understand them perfectly).

[Mister Rogers]

After the meta from Gundam I can say I am convinced that Talah is scum even more than before. Now I actually have a sample of what town Talah should like like instead of my own imagination.

[Mister Rogers]

Well I just started to re-read the whole exchange and looks like he was deliberately trying to smooth me out of voting him to vote Luca in a similar fashion with when I switched for a time to BJC.

Meh. I would say his attacks were 100% defense though.

[Mister Rogers]

It all started with his vote switch from Anx to Luca. I had to query him on that. And he made a list and Anx wasn't even in it and then he makes a statement about not caring who he votes for and sheeping Thad. It all really goes downhill from there.

[Mister Rogers]

Ok we are almost a perfect match, even on Rach which NOBODY in this thread agrees with. Of course I can't very well town Mastin but a current catchup remains to be seen. I STRONGLY disagree with Matt as town. Otherwise perfect match.

Chem ya pffft. Chem-Replace.

[Mister Rogers]

@MR:

Talk to me about pmatt. He's seems to not really be here but when he is here I feel like he's giving whatever thoughts he has (i.e., doesn't seem to be holding anything back, if that makes sense).

If you read Matt on tone you will love him. I certainly did early game. The problem occurs when he gets further into the game and has like NO scum suspects. He is voting a lurker (the best looking of all the lurkers) and has to ask for scum reads from someone else. Over the top defends your slot -- errm, I guess that was noise? Votes Yates with no case other than a simple unsubstantiated accusation. Its the CONTENT not the tone that convicts Matt; he has no scum hunting content & his ISO appears as town posturing (see bad push about frying bigger fish than your slot).

[Mister Rogers]

Btw, I can feel the scum trembling at the synergy here.

[Mister Rogers]

Definitely content. Man you gotta put it on the line dewd and that means every time you do, you have a guaranteed enemy and better make it good because otherwise you will be suspected. Hard work. Much easier to vote a lurker that can't fight back. And you have to LIE. And literally make things up. And make it all look real. BLECH. Give me a town role.

[Mister Rogers]

@MR re: pmatt:

In his first post, he points out something he doesn't like from Doc, from aptil, from PV, and then voted Bipolar. Town reads seem to be MR, Zd, DV, with tentative town reads on my slot, rach, and mastin. He says Talah's opening post is "pretty townie", which I actually agree with, as I was townreading him at first

Hey me too.

-- based on his entry post, I agree with his reads, especially at that point in the game where PV was a strong scum read for me, aptil looked like an active lurker, and Doc was a non-entity.

Great reads. Great tone. Have him as town.

Then, after the vig gambit, he was questioned about his reaction and explained in a fairly transparent manner. Then voted aptil. A good vote.

Ok, makes sense at least consistent but THEN he disappears for a LONG time. Ok so he comes back right and you think, OK -- more of the early game good stuff. More updated reads and some scum hunting activity. NOPE.

Regarding his defense of my slot, I am probably pretty biased because I know my alignment, but when I first read it I didn't find it to be over the top or ingenuine at all. I felt his defense was natural. Also, he seemed to be arguing more about the principle, rather than the slot. Post 600 is a good example of what I mean.

Ok we can disregard that as it at worst was only noise.

Regarding the "bigger fish", I have to agree with him. If I was watching this as a different slot, there WERE better options.

Ok, that's not the point though. Its not that there are better options its:

1) His point was about voting for lurkers and who was he voting? Aptil.
2) His point was about bigger fish like, ya we both know there's bigger fish -- ORLY? And like your ISO since you returned has you searching out these bigger fish how?
2a) Asking someone else why he should vote Talah -- granted I am certain Talah is scum so unless its multi-ball, a case can be made for lowering Matt in any scum tier.
3) Voting Yates with no case. Asks me for my Yates reads before providing any Yates case and no such case has materialized.
4) He promised content and didn't deliver.
5) His profile since his return looks like scum lost in the thread.

I'm wondering why you thought he didn't have any scum reads? I saw Yates, Doc, aptil and PV as his scum reads, and what seems to be a mild scum read on DG.

His early reads don't count after being gone so long AND if they were genuine reads why didn't he push those people?

[Mister Rogers]

PEDIT: My #2a) accidentally edited out the part about how Taleh flips scum.

[Mister Rogers]

2) His point was about bigger fish like, ya we both know there's bigger fish -- ORLY? And like your ISO since you returned has you searching out these bigger fish how?
2a) Asking someone else why he should vote Talah -- granted I am certain Talah is scum so unless its multi-ball, a case can be made for lowering Matt in any scum tier.

Hm. The way I read this was that he was town-reading Talah and asking the other person to justify voting one of his town reads.

ORLY? So he wasn't looking for case material but was trying to DEFEND Talah??

I don't understand what you mean about multi-ball.

If Matt was considering voting Talah it might be a point in his favor EXCEPT if there are two scum teams (multi-ball).

5) His profile since his return looks like scum lost in the thread.

What do you mean?

You know, scum in a game surrounded by townies; can't get a case out there. Feeling disjointed and unable to function.

[Mister Rogers]

Ya there was a big gap with Matt he was gone a long time. Check his ISO if you want there is a big gap.

[Mister Rogers]

Talah Townread

I will note that this isn't a super-strong read, as I do not doubt that talah has the ability to fool me as scum. I also am not getting the 'I <3 talah so much' feels that I got from him last time we played together (I was scum though, so this may not be a valid influence on my read!). I would lean towards a townread right now because of a number of things I like.

-I think the analysis of my tendencies as scum was spot on.

Not using it against me

when it would have been possible to later on was also very logically sound and townish.

Note that this is a negative interaction in that Talah didn't do something. There is pretty strong motivation for him not to if he wanted you as an ally, don't you think?

[Mister Rogers]

Instead of querying me on whether I'd finished, or if my reads had changed, knowing they were from events that occurred over 20 pages ago, you flip your position without explanation and without any attempt at sorting why your read changed.

See, when I start to feel someone is more town or less town, I usually know why, and I ask them about that why so i can determine if it's something valid. You didn't bother doing that. You know, you didn't bother trying to determine if I was actually scum or not. You threw me in that "might lynch" list because... ? Because you didn't like my reads? From page 12?

Contrast this with his quite active interactions with others in Gundam; Town Talah inquires alot.

[Mister Rogers]

Lol@Rogers

Literally every player in the post he quoted is town.

If he's looking for scum-me, why not start with my scum game?

THE MIND FUCKING BOGGLES

THIS is totally condemning. He did not meta defend the case I made. Instead he points out he has all town players listed as scum suspects -- now that I think of it, that doesn't even make sense and it certainly doesn't have anything to do with the fact that he has ZERO scum hunting here and is a vociferous monster in Gundam.

Anyway, if anyone is a fan of posts where scum are frustrated because townies make cases against them that are inaccurate, I found at least two in Talah's ISO. The whole issue about AP is one (jumping at things & not allowing for the proper town motivation).

[Mister Rogers]

Matt, if you are scum you are VERY crafty and thorough scum. Man you know how to hit on the bullet points I was looking for.

Matt downgraded to a Grey. Continued scum hunting required.

[Mister Rogers]

Time for an updated scum list:

Scum:

Talah

Look you think I'm a derp right? You think gosh what a bone head right? Just meta Talah and tell me you don't see how different the ISO's are. Please, he's obvscum.

Ok, ok, You think I'm an alright player and everything but gosh its obvious Talah is just confused, he's been attacked so much he just couldn't get his townie game out. Look if you buy that, I have some Arizona beach front property to sell you (cheap too!) but please ISO him in Gundam. Tell me that guy gets weighed down by attacks. Notice how empty him towning himself in THIS game looks compared to the other game; in Gundam it works because he has the scum hunting to back it up but here it falls flat.

Not a meta person? DID YOU META HIM THO? CLICK IT NOW AND THEN COME BACK. Check out his defense when he switched votes from Anx (yes you have to read through it, its over a few pages). Did you notice how he is so lackluster about who he is voting for? I mean he doesn't even mention whether they are scum or not. And why isn't Anx in his scum list when he was just voting him?? Is that genuine scum hunting?? Dear goodness do you see his "check out viable wagons for consensus"? I mean is that a scum mindset or what?? Don't you hate lynching town on D1? Dang I do. I guess Talah doesn't. He just wants consensus *cough* so he can get back to his scum Q/T *cough*. Excusing himself from not scum hunting because what like 3 different people attacked him and only 2 are on his wagon? Ya right; did I tell you about that Arizona beach front property? Ok that's pretty much it. The argument devolves from there into attacks and such. Vote scum. Vote high tier scum. Vote Talah today! *\:D/*

[Mister Rogers]

Well, let me ask, what do you think of Luca?

Luca is scummy as heck. Obvscum. But he is also low hanging fruit. He's great bus material. He's a bad analysis wagon (imo -- am I wrong?); we'd probably be doing scum a favor by lynching him (I know sounds bizarre but if you don't get my point, meh).

Here's the other thing: On the off chance that Luca is town (I don't believe it for a second BUT he does seem to being scummy in a way, deliberately) that will DEFINITELY be a bad wagon to analyze because everybody and his brother wants to vote Luca -- and you know what? Something is wrong with that. But hey, don't get me wrong the dewd is obvscum.

I would much prefer Talah. Nothing wrong with that candidate and definitely obvscum. The wagon analysis will be solid because outwardly he hasn't done anything "obviously" wrong like Luca.

So there's my two cents. Hey you want some Arizona beach front property cheap?

[Mister Rogers]

@ZD: No, votes for Luca are not scummy but in my opinion, they are a great place for scum to be bussing & maybe even hiding (their votes).

However, on the post in question Luca hadn't totally stepped on it like he has done twice since then and at that point scum would be placing their vote on a lurker as a way to look townie busy.

[Mister Rogers]

@Luca: Get off the Talah wagon, you're making it look bad. Please self-vote. kthxbai.

[Mister Rogers]

Let me put it another way, can you think of any reason that scum would want to bus Talah? I can't, at least not until it becomes clear that he will be the day's lynch. I find that quite a valuable asset to us, the town.

[Mister Rogers]

LOL. You know who reads SK? Luca. Wagon hopping the living crap out of this game.

[Mister Rogers]

I don't want to read the talah-bert rogers-snork threesome so was there anything important there?

Who cares. Produce your town game.

[Mister Rogers]

LOL. inb4 more attacking Rogers walls incoming. LOL I called it.

PEDIT: Are you actually talking to me? But ok, valid question. Of course he reads scum. But he also reads SK (at least in theory and only imo).

[Mister Rogers]

NERO CIVILITY TEST

@Nero: What do you think about my theory that Luca is low hanging fruit and would make for bad wagon analysis?

[Mister Rogers]

a lil' defensive there, eh?

LOL. Well you do pack a whallop and I've been burned once so meh.

[Mister Rogers]

@Nero: That is true about Luca not being in this game. What do you think about this:

[The chances of someone being scum that appears to be doing it deliberately VS. the chances of someone being scum that is trying to appear as town]

I mean for the greater chances of actually hitting scum?

[Mister Rogers]

I think there are two types of players on this site. Those that act scummy regardless of alignment and those that try to look town as scum. This isn't exactly my first rodeo and I've seen players like Luca flip both town and scum. He DOES have a better chance to flip town based on sheer numbers alone but like I said he's not someone I'd care to keep around and scum can still EZly act like this.

vote:Luca

Ok that's kewl and I think respectable but what do you say to the argument that its better to vote the scummier target because actually hitting scum is more important?

I mean a rope isn't the be all end all.

[Mister Rogers]

2014 Bus Buddy of the Year!

Not pointing fingers or anything, just sayin'...

And I guess I'll shut up. I have made my point as much as I can.

[Mister Rogers]

Luca Blight [1 vote] (4nxi3ty, Matt, DG, Nero)

Here's where we're at as of this post.

[Mister Rogers]

Oh dear goodness. I might finally be getting it. People actually sympathize with Talah for saying, "I'm lost"?

Just for the record I will say this: That is the scummiest assertion a person with Talah's experience could possibly make. It is proven to be a lie from his Gundam game. A scum that is "lost" does not have to attack players, make cases or otherwise expose themselves to scrutiny; they can spend their time posturing and buddying people as Talah has done all game.

And finally, if you force scum to actually scum hunt by requiring it in their ISO, you force them to leave tracks that can be analyzed days down the road and yes including and most especially LYLO. Again, that's why an "I'm lost" attitude is so scummy. No cases to analyze, less meaningful & trackable data. Less risk.

[Mister Rogers]

@Nero: With your game so far? Definitely not. You wanna lynch me, better get humping.

[Mister Rogers]

@DV: Also, you played in that game with him. How come you didn't notice the difference in his play?

Is this a question, or is it just the beginnings of an accusation that you're cleverly but not really disgusing?

I don't like how you ask this question and then don't answer mine.

Speaking of tone, am I noticing a tonal change in DV with this post?

[Mister Rogers]

Hey Nero, I've got an idea! Since I'm a Bert-alt and everything I am obviously wrong about Talah, right?

GREAT! So lets get him lynched so you have case material for my wagon!!!

Its a win-win!

Deal?

[Mister Rogers]

See that would make it EASY for you because you wouldn't have to do any work.

[Mister Rogers]

Mister Rogers, if someone has a different opinion from your own, it doesn't necessarily mean that they're blinded by emotion, just dumb, or scum.

Are you referencing something specific here or just throwing out general tips?

Did you answer my question that you have dodged once (twice?) already?

[Mister Rogers]

Are you referencing something specific here or just throwing out general tips?

Did you answer my question that you have dodged once (twice?) already?

I am referencing your previous post.

I didn't and don't intend to (basically it's a question to which there is no reasonable answer and I think discussing it would be wasting everyone's time).

No reasonable answer.

He is contradicting his town meta in this game and all you have to say is that "there is plenty of variance in people's town games and so its not a significant tell".

So its perfectly OK that he hasn't scum hunted this game and normally he's a scum hunting bunny? <=== Could you please answer that question?

[Mister Rogers]

Can someone tell Vadgers to actually look up my scum meta, which consists in its entirety, of one game?

Because he's effectively saying that I'm newb-scum who has mastered the art of scumming with effectively zero experience. He's also not cross-referencing any of my other town games, which do demonstrate an evolution of process.

Meta can be done right, and it can be done wrong, and then it can be done like this. Doing none of the work and presenting it as a polished "meta case".

Stop misrepping my meta case. It has absolutely nothing to do with you being an expert. It has to do with you not being yourself.

Nowhere does the meta case say anything about you being expert scum and that's twice you've misrepped it.

You having one scum game has nothing to do with the fact that you DO have enough experience to scum hunt effectively and that this is totally lacking in this game.

Keep swinging back and forth from "pity me the newb" to "Rogers is derp, I'm the expert". How many times can you make that swing for us?

[Mister Rogers]

He is

contradicting his town meta

playing differently from what I'm presenting as a full picture of his town meta in the single Gundam post I quoted

in this game and all you have to say is that "there is plenty of variance in people's town games and so its not a significant tell".

I hate fixing errors for people.

More misrep. When I present the meta case I specifically indicate and I quote: "It's not cherry picked. Look through his ISO and you will see what I mean". There is a link right in that post for people to go through your ISO as I suggest.

So quit it. You're making yourself look really bad 3 times misrepping this.

[Mister Rogers]

And to that point, Talah, you have not once defended yourself properly against the

actual

meta case and you know, I kinda find it hard to believe its because your reading comprehension is that bad because you are obviously an intelligent guy.

[Mister Rogers]

@Talah: Did you even take the time to read my game on site?

[Mister Rogers]

@AP: Can you bi-locate so we can get an extra vote on the Talah wagon because I'm kicking Luca off... XD

[Mister Rogers]

Those reads have no explanation. So totally unlike your Gundam town game.

[Mister Rogers]

Did I say that? Its and actual, real live question. Please answer it.

[Mister Rogers]

I can also confirm that talah was not burned by me whatsoever. Rogers, what was it that gave you that impression? Also, why are you so interested in the game? What do you hope to gain from having the link to it?

As I mentioned, it does provide a meta sample of Talah's town game for a reference, right?

[Mister Rogers]

Taleh, is this DV dotting i's and crossing t's?

I really dislike that first sentence and

that question about why someone would ask for a link to a game odd

.

[Mister Rogers]

@DV:

You played with Talah in Gundam. Why didn't you notice the difference in his play here?

Are you referencing something specific here or just throwing out general tips?

Did you answer my question

that you have dodged once (twice?) already?

I am referencing your previous post.

I

didn't and

don't intend to

(basically it's a question to which there is no reasonable answer and I think discussing it would be wasting everyone's time).

So its OK, that Taleh is not scum hunting here but is normally a scum hunting bunny?

Its an actual, real live question.

Please answer it

.

I don't know how many times I have to say

I'm not going to

before you get the hint.

So far once for each of two questions. But don't worry, I won't ask you the same question twice.

@DV: Don't you find it odd that you are doing more scum hunting than Talah and that you defend better against the meta case than he does? <=== How about this?

[Mister Rogers]

Are you trying to scumread me?

Are you scum? If you are, then yes.

[Mister Rogers]

And if you are town, it would be very helpful if you would just please be forthright about Talah not scum hunting.

[Mister Rogers]

So far once for each of two questions. But don't worry, I won't ask you the same question twice.

@DV: Don't you find it odd that you are doing more scum hunting than Talah and that you defend better against the meta case than he does? <=== How about this?

Oh well I don't really care for that one either.

Me defending better than he does probably is more an indicator of town-Talah than scum-Talah and since I also tend to have much poorer scumhunting when I'm being hounded, I don't find it incredibly odd, no.

PEdit: I think that saying that Talah is not scumhunting is an exaggeration.

Ok but at least you answered this one, thanks. Ok, but its clear he isn't scum hunting like his normal happy go lucky, vociferous self, wouldn't you say?

Are you saying you buy his excuse that people attacking him prevented him from scum hunting? Becauase you know, I had him as Very Strong Town for a very long time until he posted, "I'm lost". He had DAYS to get into the groove but he didn't.

So what is your explanation for that since really nobody was hounding him and certainly not me? <===

[Mister Rogers]

Yes I can relate to his feelings too. But seeing as how this is a game and we play to win, its important to play well. The point is

frustration

is null generally speaking. Scum feel frustrated too. The truth is though a proper defense avoids much frustration. More than that, proper play makes a proper defense easy.

Meh. Anyway, I can tell you like Talah and you want him to be town and that's about it I guess.

I have suggested several reasons why he isn't town. I hope you will consider them.

Good day and thanks for the help.

PS Are you town aligned neighborhood encryptor?

[Mister Rogers]

Ok. Kewl. Please be honest and as objective as possible. Heck if you are willing to do that I'll even lynch Luca right now.

[Mister Rogers]

You know, on being objective and everything, do you have town meta of Talah similar to his play this game?

[Mister Rogers]

Meh. Well I mean notice how people like AP & Snor are actively scum hunting (and yourself too!). They have town profiles. It means they are most likely town. Talah doesn't have this profile and you have never seen him play like this; I think I have demonstrated in many different ways why his profile is scummy.

Would you lynch Talah at deadline?

[Mister Rogers]

You know DV is kind of peaceful talking to you. I like ur exclamation points in your posts. I even used that in one of my posts too lol.

[Mister Rogers]

Its true. I try to be nice to people but I play very aggressively. I just assume people can handle it.

[Mister Rogers]

OK you and Thad STOP IT. I accused NOBODY of bussing. Read my beautiful bus post! I say "I'm not pointing fingers".

Ok has Nero produced his town game no (but he at least is having regular activity which is nice but...)

Has Thad been like this uber town scum hunting presence no (but his last post was pretty good except my gosh did you really try to say Talah not scum hunting is a symptom of people attacking him? I mean REALLY!?)

So I mean like what's up with the paranoia?

[Mister Rogers]

I don't like mr rogers trying to bully deas vail in to scumreading talah.

he also did this to me but with Mastin.

LOL. I mean REALLY!!?? The Bert alt tries to bully N E R O, that's right, I said freaking NEEEEEERRRRO into suspecting Mastin? Omgosh he didn't just say that.


LOLOL.

Look though, you stated your view on it (after like pulling teeth and only as some kind of bad tarp). That in combination with AP's view

makes sense.

Man. Nero. Please.

[Mister Rogers]

Also Snork's entry post looks ridiculously town.

I'll admit I'm not fully caught up yet, but I have to disagree so strongly with this statement that it's given me violent diarrhea.

Maybe there will be toilet paper soon.

Is there some kind of shocking meta where this guy is like a mind blower with catching up or something?

[Mister Rogers]

I also agree he could of manufactured his reads to duplicate mine (I don't believe that happened but if it did Matt/Snor could be scum buddies but I will need to borrow Snow's TH first).

[Mister Rogers]

Re: projectmatt

I don't have the same townread some of you have (snork-Rogers), but I don;t have a scumread either.

Ahem. I think we agree; he is in my Grey pile. I'm glad YOU'RE watching though with informed eyes.

[Mister Rogers]

I feel overwhelmed with accusations to refute.

Not buying it. Talah gives Snork the runaround about shit for like 3 pages and declines to actually do anything useful, and know uses the pages he spent arguing about bullshit as a justification for not doing anything useful. Nope.

THANK YOU. Now, read Gundam and tell me THAT Talah would be held back. BAD excuse making. Scummy excuse making. Scummy profile. It all adds up: Talah is scum.

I don't see the logic behind Talah's sudden attack on MR. It doesn't make sense to me given the history in the thread.

This. Its not town-motivated.

You know it could be town motivated if Talah didn't know what he was doing. Does anybody get the overall vibe from Talah that he doesn't know how to play Mafia or anything? I sure don't. Heck no.

[Mister Rogers]

I mean you know what his response to my case against him reminds me of? A Newbie game.

[Mister Rogers]

talah [5 votes] (AngryPidgeon, Mister Rogers, Snork, Luca Blight, Pere)
Luca Blight [4 votes] (4nxi3ty, projectmatt, Damon_Gant, Nero Cain)

Accurate as of this post.

[Mister Rogers]

Holy crap people its

FOUR DAYS!

(4 days left to deadline)

[Mister Rogers]

pisskop [3 votes] (Zdenek, Yates, DeasVail)

<=== Did this guy scum slip or something? I mean it looks like he's genuinely scum hunting to me (I think anyway).

Damon_Gant [2 votes] (SnowStorm, mastin2)

<=== Does everybody agree that at least Luca is a better shot than DG? Dang is Mastin going to get back before deadline?

mastin2 [2 votes] (BipolarChemist)

<===

4nxi3ty [1 vote] (ThAdmiral)

<=== This Anx guy. I don't know why I wan't to give him the slightest slack but its what my gut says for now.

Yates [1 vote] (pisskop)

<=== I get this and Yates, I mean c'mon its a valid query.

3 players are

not voting

:

aptil <=== This is way overdue and is technically a reliable scum tell.

RachMarie <===

talah <=== meh.

With

20

players alive it takes

11

votes to lynch somebody or to go to night.

Activity

Nobody has recently been prodded.
BipolarChemist is V/LA until March 23rd.
Zdenek is V/LA until March 26th.
mastin2 is V/LA until March 31st.

[Mister Rogers]

@Thad: The Talah wagon is still viable. I counted 12 available votes.

[Mister Rogers]

Ok. So you think he should be given a day to coast?

[Mister Rogers]

Because my point is he had DAYS to scum hunt where there was praitcally no pressure on him and he had pretty good high percentage town read from the players. So yes, compared to his town game, he is

coasting

.

You are saying he needs to do that? Because it has nothing to do with uber-defensiveness, you know?

[Mister Rogers]

Wow Rach. Nice. And your stated opinion of this information?

[Mister Rogers]

I have an opinion but I am waiting for what you think Rach.

[Mister Rogers]

Meh.

Ok first:

This is apparently his first game on site (his join date is the very day before). Secondly he is happy go lucky, outgoing and

scum hunting

.

Because of this, it is obvious that he has off-site experience.

Anyway, here is a sample:

mothrax, likewise, do you have any other scumreads apart from Greywing?

The cast:

• mothrax - the soft-spoken yet self-assured somewhat-inquisitor
  
• Honey Bee - the opinionated inquisitor who's happy to dispense advice
  
• jmo16mla - the stone-skinned questioner.. and questioner
  
• Fropone - the sharp-edged and no bullshit whip with a bad eye for scum
  
• Malakittens - the common-sense and natural emote
  
• Greywing - the '....' scum-reading questioner who finally got an answer out of Tybalt
  
• Tybalt - the listmaker, who needs reasons when you have a list
  
• ThaneAravan - the quotemaster who finally voted.. in retaliation

Regarding Grey, in ISO his posts seem mostly about analysing situational logic and asking reactive questions. He also votes Luigi (me) in post #77:

@Tybalt: I'm still waiting for an answer to this:

@Tybalt: Is there anything in particular that is giving you Town reads on Moth and Mala?

There's also been a ridiculous lack of analysis from Luigi so far. There was his well publicised RVS post, and he's only followed it up with posts complaining about people discussing him. I still believe that his RVS vote was intended as a joke, but the lack of content since then makes me think that he's trying to fly under the radar. Mala's looking more Town to me now after a re-read.

UNVOTE: Malakittens
VOTE: Luigilewis889

..and the very next time he posts (#99) he is criticising ThaneAravan for his rationale in voting exactly the same way. That's hmm.. well I don't actually find that scummy, just dissonant. But the fact that it's his only real analysis, I wonder if Grey isn't trying to avoid giving out opinions of his own.

VOTE: Greywing

Don't we have a deadline looming?

@RachMarie-Mayor-Mod

- are we able to have a votecount tally and timer please?

Was going to do it last night but was too tired and crashed instead. VC coming up....Rach

Did he whine about only having eight games!?

Yes he did.

LYNCH THIS MAN!

[Mister Rogers]

Rogers, I have - what - half a dozen? Eight? - completed games under my belt

including a couple I replaced out of. Where you're getting the idea that I'm some kind of superscum or supertown I have no idea. Historically I've been able to town pretty hard by screaming and raging, but I really don't like that aspect of myself. So yeah, I have some *personal* cog-dis, but unless it's related to me gaining some kind of scum-benefit - what's the purpose of even pointing it out?

Now, tottle off like a good sprung unit and stop loading me up with your pointless questions when I already have a significant backlog of reasonable questions to catch up with. If you think I'm scum,

PUSH FOR MY WAGON!!!!!!1!!1

[Mister Rogers]

Its more like, you know, from the perspective of lynching Talah-scum, lynching Luca-scum would kind of be a favor because they want to bus Luca anyway but not Talah.

[Mister Rogers]

Also, because I try not to be trapped into thinking in terms of "a rope is the only solution" mentality.

[Mister Rogers]

Anyone that doesn't see

Talah trying to pretend he's a newb as an excuse for not scum hunting

as a concrete scum tell, I wish I could help you but I can't?

That is a form of lying and he's doing it to explain away scummy behavior. His ISO is scummy. It's NOT himself. He has had more than ample opportunity to provide a proper defense but he has resorted to effectively lying instead. Here let me show an example:

Pro Scum Hunter:

Talah how come I don't get the townie feel from your ISO like I normally do? You normally, as a habit, scum hunt and are quite outgoing with queries but here you are doing none of these things and its gone on for quite awhile before anyone was really attacking you?

Town Talah:

Ya I'm really sorry. You're right there is a,b,c reasons and x,y,z extenuating circumstances. Here's what I've got so far: [blah, blah, blah]. Here's what I am thinking: [blah, blah, blah]. Let me go through some ISO's and post more data the best I can anyway.

Instead he has demeaned his attackers, effectively lied about his experience, blamed his attackers for him not scum hunting and NOT provided the proper town response at any point.

People that are sympathizing with him because, "poor Talah, he's been attacked" are either not looking at the evidence or are scum.

Think that's over the top? You'd better comment on the DAYS that have gone by where he had ample time to be his true town self before you post about that.

[Mister Rogers]

It seems like the bulk of Talah's ISO is filled with him trying to TELL people he's town, instead of him simply BEING town.

That's scummy as heck too, especially from him.

[Mister Rogers]

I never lie about real life issues, including my experience, including any real life circumstances, anything which isn't "really" game related. Not as any alignment.

You have more than 8 games experience. Why did you try to pretend that was all you had and use that as an excuse for your scummy behavior?

Why have you misrepped the meta case against you THREE times. Not ONCE have you properly responded to it.

You are scum.

[Mister Rogers]

Between Luca and Talah . By looking at post#739 , i thought Talah was helping Luca with what not to do when he comes back .

Someone else has posted about that post from Talah. I'm hoping they can speak up because I am not sure where its located in the thread. It might of been AP, I am not sure.

[Mister Rogers]

Also snork is looking pretty much town from his posts but the bjc replacement feels scum replacement to me . He is still playing elsewhere .

Can you please clarify because:

Snork = the BJC replacement.


???

[Mister Rogers]

@Aptil: Since you lurk alot, a vote is required from you. The top 2 wagons are Talah & Luca. There has been mention made of an Anx wagon but most of those people have jumped to Luca. I personally think Talah is the best wagon by far.

[Mister Rogers]

Also snork is looking pretty much town from his posts but the bjc replacement feels scum replacement to me . He is still playing elsewhere .

Can you please clarify because:

Snork = the BJC replacement.


???

Yea i know that. From his posts snork looks town , but the manner in which bjc has asked for a replacement looks suscpicious . Bjc is playing elsewhere , why did he leave this game ?

To simply quell this suspicion I will give you what I feel is the best case scenario:

BJC was actually under R/L time pressure and could only handle so many games at once. He wanted to contribute here in a quality fashion like he normally does but simply didn't have the time and decided he would troll-scum hunt. It got out of hand and so he asked to be replaced.

[Mister Rogers]

@Aptil: Since you lurk alot, a vote is required from you. The top 2 wagons are Talah & Luca. There has been mention made of an Anx wagon but most of those people have jumped to Luca. I personally think Talah is the best wagon by far.

Oh, and to be fair, there is an existing PK wagon, but I don't personally see an actual reason for its existance other than pressure. If people want to speak up about the PK wagon they really need to do so and like right away.

[Mister Rogers]

Ok. So there are more people who i consider town on the talah wagon than the Luca wagon . I am still getting around Luca voting Talah . If they are indeed bussing each other .

Very nice point. Ya I feel you. Meh. This could be multi-ball (two scum teams). Luca (or even Talah wtheck) could be the SK. They could be bussing. I mean there are possible reasons.

[Mister Rogers]

I get this and Yates, I mean c'mon its a valid query.

What does this mean?

I think you'd better ask PK that sir and tbf, that is quite long overdue, in fact.

You ignored Rogers when he did it.

Show me. I must have missed it.

Ya, I missed it too. I didn't comment on this because I simply didn't do it.

[Mister Rogers]

Oakhaven was the first mafia game I played anywhere.

This is BULL*HIT somehow. Nobody flings around buzzwords and runs a scum hunting game like that in their first game. You are being cute by having played some kind of variant or are simply lying (which is certainly allowed regardless of your r/l self-meta).

But seriously, can ANYONE, reading this game believe that this is Talah's VERY FIRST GAME ANYWHERE?

Regardless, it becomes moot when you consider that he has

expressed

the necessary expertise to not behave like he has this game AND he had ample time (ACTUAL DAYS) to bring his town game without being under ANY significant pressure and he didn't; he made excuses, he demeaned his attackers, misrepped a VALID meta case, AtE everywhere but NOWHERE is there a genuine town response or behavior.

Still he posts but nowhere is town Talah.

[Mister Rogers]

Wagon hopping, a who cares if they're scum attitude (consensus, wagon sheeping) -- it ain't town Talah.

[Mister Rogers]

@MR and Yates : What is your opinion on DG ?

DG is scummy. He has a "lurkers above all else scum hunting" game which he refuses to give up. He is contributing regularly but there is nothing I can point to where I can say, "He's town because...".

Let's weigh that say against someone like PK.

PK is accusing multiple people with varying quality scum accusations. He spreads his suspicions around. So far he has come to no solid conclusions however. He might very well be scum BUT I think he is cutting a town profile because of his scum hunting effort. I can't be sure of this because I haven't seen his recent game views, but this is the opinion I hold right now.

See, I can't say that about DG.

I don't think he is the best lynch for today because he could easily be town that is easily misread as scum which seems to fit his posting style. Because he posts regaularly, I think its OK to at least have him around. I DO NOT like his scum hunting, it is easily something that scum would do to appear as town & and some point if he doesn't drastically and dramatically improve his game, he will need to go.

[Mister Rogers]

I have no problem lynching him today if it came down to it but I simply don't think we should and I think he's scum.

[Mister Rogers]

Oakhaven was my first mafia game anywhere, I haven't played any variants, and I've only played on this site.

I would appreciate it if you would stop slandering my character regarding

facts

which are

outside of the game.

Fine. Both meta cases stand on their merits. You scum hunt as a habit as town and you haven't done that here.

Anything else?

[Mister Rogers]

@MR and Yates : What is your opinion on DG ?

DG is scummy. He has a "lurkers above all else scum hunting" game which he refuses to give up. He is contributing regularly but there is nothing I can point to where I can say, "He's town because...".

Let's weigh that say against someone like PK.

PK is accusing multiple people with varying quality scum accusations. He spreads his suspicions around. So far he has come to no solid conclusions however. He might very well be scum BUT I think he is cutting a town profile because of his scum hunting effort. I can't be sure of this because I haven't seen his recent game views, but this is the opinion I hold right now.

See, I can't say that about DG.

I don't think he is the best lynch for today because he could easily be town that is easily misread as scum which seems to fit his posting style. Because he posts regaularly, I think its OK to at least have him around. I DO NOT like his scum hunting, it is easily something that scum would do to appear as town & and some point if he doesn't drastically and dramatically improve his game, he will need to go.

He has refused to join the talah wagon because the case presented is not good enough . Consider the case people have made , i find it very hard to be saying things like that . He is a very dodgy character in my opinion .

I specifically noted this as well. Without flips, it can't be too condemning BUT his exclusive focus on lurkers makes it condemning for HIM.

[Mister Rogers]

[quote="Important Aptil Question]What SPECIFICALLY is it about the talah case that is so obvious that it also incriminates DG?[/quote]

[Mister Rogers]

What SPECIFICALLY is it about the talah case that is so obvious that it also incriminates DG?

[Mister Rogers]

However, as Rogers is chucking around talah meta references everywhere my next job in this game will be to look at that myself.

Ok. Please don't keep your opinion to yourself. I'm really not a monster. I like having discussion about game points.

[Mister Rogers]

However, his posting early in this game for me matches his posting in that game quite well.

Agreed. However, based on his subsequent play, I can see it as a case of pissed off scum that refuses to be caught early game which wore off once he had an almost universal town read. What I read from him NOT producing an ISO of his usual scum hunting self, is the

lack of desire to scum hunt

which is his town game.

I still believe his falling apart was due to pressure, being irritated, or some combination of those two things.

Because there was almost no pressure for DAYS and no town Talah ISO appeared. Again, this leads me to believe that the "town posting" early game was

reactionary

to being attacked so early. But after the pressure was off, the true weight of his scum alignment took effect.

Makes perfect sense to me.

What doesn't make sense to me is attributing his lack of town ISO to "pressure" because there was practically none for days.

I will be re-reading his ISO a couple more times to try and put a definite finger on why that is, or whether it's mistaken instinct.

Excellent. Please let me know of your opinions.

[Mister Rogers]

As for your "I had to pull teeth to get a Mastin read!"

I am counting on experienced help here but if you are scum you

WILL put down your read on Mastin for the record

.

Dewd. That was in your response to you "die scum" or whatever inane phrase you used. So don't try to pin that on me.

The point is your read on Luca synched up perfectly with mine and I asked you about it. Your response to that question was "die scum" and you refused to comment on Mastin

at that time

so ya, the most important read there is Mastin and no, I'm not going to let you "LOLZ ur scum" your way through demonstrating your catchup with reads and I certainly will document what you think about important reads.

Do not discount my ability and right to scum hunt you.

If you are asking me what my read on Mastin is but for some reason not using your words "What is your Mastin read?"

Then well I think he's town.

That's hardly pulling teeth. But go ahead and keep lying. I mean I doubt I'll be able to convince the town we should lynch you so meh.

Ya without reasoning. Your reasoning only came later as part of that crappy tarp.

Ya you won't convince anyone I'm lying about

this

because your foundation of "I'm going to withhold reads because your scum LOLZ" is crap.

Keep running with it though. Its looking great. If you're scum that is.

[Mister Rogers]

I don't think using Talah's first came on this site* in comparisons to this game is very accurate. If we are metaing Talah it seems a more recent game would be more telling.

The join date thing might mean he's an alt but there's nothing necessarily wrong with trying to hide your alt. Bert tried to hide his alt as well.

I wasn't familar with Bert having an alt. But your alt idea makes sense as a possibility. Your idea of 1st game meta meh not so much especially since he apparently has like 8 games.

2 meta games have been cited both with the same townie scum hunting profile that is lacking here. Like polar opposite to his game here. Gundam Seed was the other game.

The meta is not even

required

to make a scum case because having that as your profile while demonstrating in thread your ability to do better is scummy enough. The meta just

confirms

his ability and preference for scum hunting as town.

Again, logically being attacked as scum early and getting pissed off and then going into a scum shell once the pressure is off. Its not like he offered any valid excuse for this. Being attacked isn't a valid excuse for not producing his normal town ISO when there wasn't heavy attack pressure.

[Mister Rogers]

I don't think using Talah's first came on this site* in comparisons to this game is very accurate. If we are metaing Talah it seems a more recent game would be more telling.

Whilst I agree in principle, the problem is that I'm not sure there's a great recent game to meta. Most of his recent games have been theme games which we could look at but the theme often complicates things. I was using the first game because that's one Rogers specifically addressed so I wished to reply to it.

I also brought in Gundam Seed. Did you see it?

[Mister Rogers]

@Nero: What did you think of Gundam Seed?

[Mister Rogers]

I don't "do" meta unless it's shoved in my face

+1

So you're saying you're being scummy. What do we do with people who are being scummy?

Well I suppose "we the undefined collective", in answer to a question which rams a broken pool cue into the orifice of the notion that specificity is possible to convey using the English language, attempt to clarify both the premise and the question first.

"So you're saying you're being scummy"

No, I asked Sakura why she didn't challenge my inconsistency. It turns out I'm not on her radar, and that she has Levi on the mind. I accept that response because it means she

does

have an agenda and it looks to be scumhunting. I'll keep a peripheral eye on her and see.

If you really want to know, I voted Sakura because - priorities and priorities. Nati and I vote-teaming is a useful strategy, I think, and I'm a bit disappointed Des didn't follow along (although I missed the fact he was already voting Majiffy in the first place, which may have been a bit offputting).

My understanding - or idea - with the voting pool is that there's an inherent 'unvote before lynch' agreement between all members. It's something I'm inviting my town-leaning reads to participate and interact in.

Spoiler:

You're not invited because your dropped-logic argument on pieguyn was oblivious of the context of pie getting involved in the conversation to begin with. It wasn't an assertion that (s)he made in the first place, to be accountable as scummy for dropping it.

"What do we do with people who are being scummy?"

We? Do you mean good mafia players? Good scumhunters? Yourself notionally as part of one of these groups? Yourself by extension onto the universe of how you think all Mafia players should act?
People? Me? Your grouping of all people who act scummily according to you? People who act in the same way as I am acting?
Scummy? The way I acted in this particular sequence? The assertion you are making?

I suppose one would attempt to scumhunt, assess or assert.
Determine the motivations of the non-specific players who "are being scummy".

---

Couple of follow-ups because I'm tired and have some work over the weekend.

Majiffy

- something about something about three posts. I can't remember what you said but you're irritating me using your weight on someone I've already townread probably when you thought it was still RVS. Get off pie.
Also I'm taking keen mental notes on your interactions with Deas.

dolittle

- another one. another naked townread. I don't know where you're getting this stuff from. Because you're not saying.

kayne

- where'd you go?

---

My next post will probably have "fame", "lurksack" and "hall" in the title.

Check out that awesome scum hunting post from Talah. Do you see anything like that in his ISO in this game? Its not cherry picked. Do his ISO in that game and you will see what I mean.

Sure he towns himself in that game but the active scum hunting like in that game? The active calling people out constantly? No. He definitely isn't lost in that game and its a Large Theme.

09/26/2014

[Mister Rogers]

dunno, haven't read it or played in it

Ok, there's the meta post right below this post I'm quoting. Its not any different than his first game.

[Mister Rogers]

I don't think using Talah's first came on this site* in comparisons to this game is very accurate. If we are metaing Talah it seems a more recent game would be more telling.

Whilst I agree in principle, the problem is that I'm not sure there's a great recent game to meta. Most of his recent games have been theme games which we could look at but the

theme often complicates things

. I was using the first game because that's one Rogers specifically addressed so I wished to reply to it.

He has a two page topics page so I don't think we'll have a problem with finding a game. Maybe I'm tunneling on the PBS alt here but I find it both demeaning and sneaky that he'd suggest that Talah's play hasn't changed in the two years that he's been here and that this game is an accurate way to get current meta.

Can you explain the bolded, how does theme complicate things?

This post kind of confuses me but I don't really care. The meta that I brought is the meta that was given to me by Talah early game, Gundam Seed. The meta that Rach brought that wasn't any different is that newbie game. His play HASN'T changed so I don't know what your point is there anyway. Noting the attempt tho?

[Mister Rogers]

And just pointing out, this is NOT a meta case. Its a case that is being confirmed by meta. I don't normally use meta very much anyway.

[Mister Rogers]

I do kind of admire people that are good at though, like our illustrious Mod. I find it kind of painful though.

[Mister Rogers]

LOL. I like the way Nero says "Good morning" to me with a wall to get my day started.

[Mister Rogers]

Obviously thats 09/26/2013 for Gundam Seed.

[Mister Rogers]

VOTE: talah.

I don't care for the meta. I don't think it's a very accurate point when it doesn't add to why he'd play like he has in this game.

Any evidence that talah is scum is present in this game. I think all that's wrong about his play has been pointed out by MR

and lost in between pointless discussion.

Anyone who has doubts should just ISO him. It worked for me.

Ya combine that with the shameless "I'm town" posts & consistent defenses that miss striking the proper townie points and the ISO is pretty scary.

Towards the bolded, there was what I think was going to be a certain angle on another of Talah's accusations of his accusers concerning AP that Snor was trying to bring up but literally that got drowned out by Talah himself. I mean i don't think the point was even able to be actually made; I'm not sure it was actually going anywhere either but :shrug:

Someone else pointed out that all the effort that Talah made in that bru-ha-ha produced no townie contributions from Talah but yet the effort was there. Its just not right.

To quote Mastin again, its "reactionary".

[Mister Rogers]

Thanks Anx. Noted. Please refer to my Wiki #1. Hopefully you won't be locked in there for an eternity and will get back in time to post some conclusive and concrete reads and contribution before deadline, huh?

[Mister Rogers]

srry kiddo but you're playstyle has reached anti-town levels, so if you're town learn some patience, a filter, somethin
if ur scum, by all means continue turning this game into a chore <.< for everyone else, I'm sure everyone has endless amount of time -.- to make playing this way a worthwhile experience

A chore. LOL. Its like heavy lifting or something using the scroll wheel? This is a talking point and its noted.

Its not gut why I don't push your wagon. The only reason I don't is because there is a glimmer of someone that knows how to scum hunt and is paying attention but who's ISO just doesn't show it yet. You can't use my posts to excuse the quality of your posts regardless of what you or Nero say (Nero said it first).

Hope to see your scum hunting improve; as of now you're just sitting on Luca and don't seem to have done much else other than vote DG who probably is simply low hanging fruit just like Luca. This push on the "post volume" talking point just makes it all look worse.

Please improve if you're town.

[Mister Rogers]

Just a note. I have been officially asked by two people to modify my posting and criticized by two others. Out of courtesy I will do so.

I simply interact with every player if I feel there is reason to. You will be hard pressed to find a fluff post.

Even the fluff post Snor quoted has a purpose: It indicates that Luca is voting Talah but otherwise the wagon looks great with who is on it.

Luca needs to do a catchup post.

Nero, there is nothing wrong with my querying you or my responses to you.

Be back later because Ernie needs to use the comp. Peace out.

[Mister Rogers]

I'm gonna call Nero scum. Straight up.

Sorry can't take the posting attack pressure. That attack has broken me. Thanks Snor.

Mod replace me.