Starcraft Mafia -- Game Over!
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Varsoon Scatman
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Varsoon Scatman
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Varsoon Scatman
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Varsoon Scatman
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What's the policy, even?In post 18, Shoshin wrote:Hey Irrelephant, want to policy lynch Varsoon?-
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Varsoon Scatman
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It's kind of baffling that you propose a policy lynch on me and when Irrel + The Worst deny it outright and ask you why
You hard dodge
Then post this sort of thing:
For what reason even?In post 46, Shoshin wrote:I think I should be higher on the town list, the worst.-
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Varsoon Scatman
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This is spineless.
You asked Nauci for a read just to sheep it.
I see no trajectory that'd lead you to have this opinion on skitter, even.-
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Varsoon Scatman
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Varsoon Scatman
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I hope so, but I don't see myself living very long in this one. :/In post 106, Xtoxm wrote:This is hype.
So Varsoon I wonder if this finally the game where we're on the same team at like the 7th attempt?? Don't let me down man.-
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Varsoon Scatman
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Varsoon Scatman
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Thoughts otherwise:
Nauci keeps using their vote as pressure on players that aren't here rather than sticking to a wagon and dealing with the possible interactions that come from it. I don't like this.
Mitilos and Skitter are parsing out their thoughts plenty and I like that, though I'm still trying to make heads or tails of them.
The Worst truly is The Worst but at the very least their play IS consistent and reminds me of their town play, so I don't feel horrible about their slot.
What's up you cool babies?-
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Varsoon Scatman
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Varsoon Scatman
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Varsoon Scatman
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Varsoon Scatman
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In post 212, Shoshin wrote: His vote on me feels thoughtless, like he's just trying to go make an against-the-grain vote instead of having actual reasons to suspect me as scum (there's none, since I'm town and when I'm town it's fairly obvious to anyone who has played wiht me before, and that includes Varsoon).In post 212, Shoshin wrote:His vote on me feels thoughtless, like he's just trying to go make an against-the-grain vote instead of having actual reasons to suspect me as scum (there's none)In post 199, Varsoon wrote:^ Like you say you 'had similar feelings' but you haven't mentioned skitter once before in your ISO.In post 198, Varsoon wrote:This is spineless.
You asked Nauci for a read just to sheep it.
I see no trajectory that'd lead you to have this opinion on skitter, even.In post 197, Varsoon wrote:It's kind of baffling that you propose a policy lynch on me and when Irrel + The Worst deny it outright and ask you why
You hard dodge
Then post this sort of thing:
For what reason even?In post 46, Shoshin wrote:I think I should be higher on the town list, the worst.In post 196, Varsoon wrote:
What's the policy, even?In post 18, Shoshin wrote:Hey Irrelephant, want to policy lynch Varsoon?In post 195, Varsoon wrote:What's even remotely good about the votes on me, Shoshin?-
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Varsoon Scatman
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Varsoon Scatman
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Varsoon Scatman
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Varsoon Scatman
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I don't think you've got the depth of meta knowledge to truly understand how I'd play as either alignment.
You don't know why I'm the Scatman, but you'll sure find out.
I'm on the same page with Mitilos here, actually, I'm really peeved by the fact that, instead of engaging with me, you flat denied my accusations/problems with your slot and instead went for "TOWN VARSOON WOULD DO THIS, SCUM VARSOON WOULD DO THAT", as if trying to bait me to play in some different way to curry favor with you.
Fuck that.
You're not going to box in my play, nor will I change it to appease you, nor will I back down from my most informed and passionate read just because they want to situate it as some out of game beef.
P-EDIT:
@Irrel: Even if I personally don't think Shoshin is a great player, other people readily acknowledge that; that's what I'm speaking towards in 205. I thought Shoshin, based on the way people talk about Shoshin the Legendary Labrynth Slayer, 100% never mislynched anyone, Shoshin the Immaculate, might be a bit better. Guess someone's wrong. Probably me. Shoshin's great.-
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Varsoon Scatman
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It'd be a different story if your votes weren't everywhere and baseless,
If your rationale for voting wasn't flimsy and subject to change at a whim,
If you weren't propping up bald votes on someone you're clamoring for a policy lynch on,
and if you'd actually engaged with any of my points raised against you.
Based on the one game history that I actually have with you, you're far more methodical and nuanced as town. Even if you didn't like my play, you wouldn't be playing around my slot in this way.
That's a single game sample size, though, so I may be wrong, but this is the highest confidence read that I've got right now.
P-EDIT:
1. They remain poor votes because they can just hang there on my wagon when I do post and come under no scrutiny when I flip town because 'oh they were just pressuring him and didnt like what he posted'. They provide little to no context for the vote and absolutely no interaction with my slot. You've solely read into them as 'pressure to get a slot to perform', when that doesn't seem to be the case for them in the least. I literally just said that I was going to catch up and get in game as well, so it's not as if I was lurking--I literally hadn't even fucking read the game yet.
2. Why didn't you respond to the two times people asked you about policy lynching me before, then? If it was just a joke, why'd you let it sit on the table like that?
3. This IS where I think we deviate highly based on Meta. Even with players who I've played with in every single game, I would not trust them to be able to come to an accurate read on me within the first 5 pages, nor would I openly call them out on it when they didn't. What does this actually even tell you about the Worst?
4. You never voiced your 'similar feelings' in the game thread, so there's no means of verifying that you're not just hopping to a sheep on skitter for purely duplicitous reasons. It's also questionable that you think Skitter may be scum for sheeping you but you then hard-sheep Nacui. It's entirely spineless because if you had felt justified in your issues regarding Skitter, you'd have voted there yourself. You intentionally waited for someone else to vote there in order to see that it was a safe stance to take, because at least one other player would agree with you. You can glitz up pocketing players as 'having strong feelings that resonate with other players' but if your feelings were so strong in the first place, I should've seen appropriate discourse that reflected that, highly likely to include a vote. I didn't.
I voted youbecause I wanted you to answer my questionsand you went for a vote on me before ever answering them. In fact, you were VERY ADAMANT that you didn't want to engage with me under the excuse that it would 'clog the thread with meaningless back and forth' and until other players pressured you to actually answer them, you would never have. You proposing that I don't have reasons to suspect you feels heavily like you projecting here; you don't have reasons to suspect me and you voted me without providing responses.
P-EDIT: I'm fucking sick of people positioning my play as something they can't possibly engage with because of out of game reasons.
If I'm that much of a cancer that people can't stand to play with me because I play in SUCH A FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT WAY or whatever the shit
I'll just stop signing up for games or something, goddamn
UNVOTE:
This whole thing pisses me off.-
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Varsoon Scatman
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Just share it.In post 227, Irrelephant11 wrote:Varsoon [redacted, not because of site rules, just because]
I'll let this play out for a bit before I share that
I'm sick of this nonsense.
It's not even a personal thing.In post 225, Irrelephant11 wrote:Okay well I'm not here to make things *more personal*
[for the crowd, varsoon vs. shoshin has gotten heated before]
but I am here to say that Shoshin is scum .01% of the time here and you should find someone else to wagon
I am not yet here to say the same about you, so I'll let you know after your scumhunting moves beyond this silly overly personal thing
Which townreads do you think are bad? Are you scumreading anyone besides shoshin that has received many townreads? Or anyone who has given many townreads? Seems like a pointless thing to say (and indeed anti-town) unless you feel like it *actually applies* to the players in this game
Thanks for taking Shoshin's garbage 'get out of being scumread free' card at face value
I think I'll start doing that now
Sign up for a bunch of games with people who don't think well of me
And write off their scumreads as 'Boohoo we play differently any possible critique they have of me is just a personal feud that'll clog the thread'
Jesus-
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Varsoon Scatman
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Varsoon Scatman
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Varsoon Scatman
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15 Shoshin townreads Irrelephant immediately (If pocketing, it's clearly worked, Irrel thinks Shoshin is 99.9% town here as of the most recent page)
23 Irrel says Creature is town, then takes it back when Creature claims survivor.
24 Shoshin says Mitillos is town-ish.
27 Shoshin reiterates that Irrel and Mitllos are town, doesn't provide rationale for Irrel but does for Mitillos.
30 Irrel says Shoshin and The Worst are town, posits skitter as more-likely town than not
70 Skitter comes to the conclusion that Mitilos can be 'town for now'. There were earlier talks of low-key town reads from skitter but I didn't take those as the bold townread this is
84 Skitter calls basically everyone who's posted town besides The Worst: mtilos, irrel, creature, nauci, shoshin
89 Shoshin calls Nancy town. I actually really don't like this one because it seems to be indicating to Nancy that 'this is a repeat of Labyrinth, remember that one game I was town, yes, I am town here'.
94 AlmostNancy calls Shoshin and TheWorst town.
98 TheWorst calls Shoshin town.
117 Keyser townleads Shoshin, early recognizes lots of Townreads coming from Shoshin and TW.
125 Saudade calls TheWorst town.
140 AlmostNancy's other head sheeps the first on a Shoshin TR.
146 Skitter calls AlmostNancy town
171 Skitter voices a strong town read on Mitillos
192 TheWorst calls AlmostNancy town
So If I'm keeping a Town-vote-count here:
Shoshin (5):Irrelephant, Skitter, AlmostNancy, TheWorst, Keyser
TheWorst (3):Irrelephant, AlmostNancy, Saudade
AlmostNancy (3):Shoshin, Skitter, The Worst
Irrelephant (2):Shoshin, Skitter
Mitillos (2):Shoshin, Skitter
Creature (1):Skitter
Nauti (1):Skitter
So, Skitter and Shoshin obviously hand out the most townreads here.
In the case of both of them, I don't really understand how they've come to all of these conclusions.
Shoshin's garnered the most townreads, and this is within 200 posts--8 pages.
Look at that, though; there's more TOWNREADS given than votes--17 townreads, only 10 votes in that time (and this is only counting hard townreads, though my count may be off on votes)
That's wild to me. That's a clear indicator that someone's not being genuine.
And if you look at the data, it's got to either be skitter or shoshin.
Here's where this gets really wild:
Shosin's got townreads on most the players townreading herself.
Skitter's not being townread by anyone but is still giving out a ton of townreads.
I don't really know what to make of it, to be honest.
And I think I'm getting way more onto having more information than analysis here, but
I don't think Shoshin's reads are genuinely informed. I think Shoshin's townreads are hugely based on how players are reading Shoshin and how much Shoshin is capable of influencing others by handing out TRs.
That's what I was feeling when I voted for Shoshin. That's what I still feel now.
What do you all think?
P-EDIT:
I want to be clear that my aggression re:Shoshin is entirely at their play. Shoshin's a good dude outside of game and I apologize if they take any of this personally, that's not my intent.
These recent votes make me want to rejoin the Shoshin wagon but I feel very biased and I'm worried this might just be a ploy to drag me back in with the level of vitriol I had before.
I want to really sit down and assess this.
@Performer: It's entirely in Shoshin's town!wheelhouse to write someone off as scum like that, from my experience. I'm trying to parse if it's actually Shoshin's intent to lean into that kind of play or if it's just them being town and making a poor judgment call, influenced by bad blood.
@Xtoxm: What do you think about the way that Shoshin's handled their TRs, though? How is Shoshin scum for TRs but not Skitter as well?-
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Varsoon Scatman
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I'm not re-reading those first 10 pages ever againIn post 284, AlmostNancy wrote:P.edit. I think you’re barking up the wrong tree, you shoild be cataloging scumreads instead. Scum frequently has a disproportionate ratio of scumreads v townreads.
If you wanna do that, be my guest, though it's hard to parse who has a legitimate scumread and not just 'bad vibes' or is voting someone for pressure.-
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Varsoon Scatman
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When you post stuff like this, Irrel, it feels like you're scum giving yourself wiggle room to later be okay with a lynch on your townreads, 'cus you were just 'friendreading' them and could be wrong.In post 291, Irrelephant11 wrote:the caveat on my reads is that I have townleaned friends who do not deserve it before because I like them
:/-
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Varsoon Scatman
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Varsoon Scatman
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Varsoon Scatman
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Varsoon Scatman
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You've got access to PTs that I am not in.
That's the first thing that comes to mind.
Via PT access, you've either convinced people you are town or you're just in a masonry.
I do suspect that at least one of Irrel, Shoshin, AlmostNancy, and TheWorst is scum, yes.
Probably only one, though, tbh.
I actually see Irrel as hard-softing mason on you right now with his whole 'if you do not believe me, lynch me first' play.
@Mitillos: I still annoyed. Doesn't matter if Irrel is townreading me if I think they're pushing bad ideas.-
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Varsoon Scatman
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I don't believe in blocks this early, I've modded (and played in) too many games where scum have infiltrated D1 townblocks and coasted on it hard.In post 303, Shoshin wrote:
Why?In post 302, Varsoon wrote:I do suspect that at least one of Irrel, Shoshin, AlmostNancy, and TheWorst is scum, yes.
I think Shoshin/Irrel will actually sort itself before we even get close to LYLO, so I'm actually not all that worried and I'd really prefer we lynch outside of them today.In post 309, Mitillos wrote:@Varsoon: That doesn't address the defensiveness, though. If you're annoyed at someone who is townreading you but otherwise wrong about someone else, where exactly does the "I am threatened scum" line come from? Also, which one from those four are you currently suspecting? Is it still Shoshin, or?-
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Varsoon Scatman
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Varsoon Scatman
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Varsoon Scatman
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Varsoon Scatman
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Varsoon Scatman
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So do votes matter or don't they?In post 340, Nauci wrote:Varsoon, why do you treat early, 2-3 votewagons as if they must be accurate reads, or require extensive justification, or are in danger of leading to your lynch?
The fact that you're already talking about how you'd flip from having 2 page <10 votes on you gives me bad vibes, but maybe we just have wildly different early game philosophy. What's yours?
I'm of the mind they do.
So I will respond to them accordingly.-
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Varsoon Scatman
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You literally called for my policy lynch on D1.In post 343, Shoshin wrote:
That's not what I did, nor is it what Nauci's talking about.In post 337, Varsoon wrote:@Nauci: Baiting someone into exploding, especially when you know that player explodes and looks bad for it as town, is not great play and, is, in fact, really scummy play.
Did you not think I would respond to that?-
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Varsoon
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Varsoon Scatman
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Varsoon Scatman
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Yawn.In post 18, Shoshin wrote:Hey Irrelephant, want to policy lynch Varsoon?
Whatever.
You've never mislynched anyone before, why start now?
I'm just gonna follow you until we win.-
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Varsoon Scatman
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Varsoon Scatman
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Performer's double-back onto Shoshin while parroting my reads right after I fell off the wagon seems like reason enough.
When Shoshin flipped town, I'd be the one to catch the rap for it and Performer could sneak off into the shadows, having successfully got a lynch on someone that about half of town reads as town.-
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Varsoon Scatman
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Varsoon Scatman
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Varsoon Scatman
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Varsoon Scatman
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Varsoon Scatman
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Rude.In post 400, Mitillos wrote:Mine, I think.-
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Varsoon Scatman
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That's good. I have good confidence that you'll find 'em.In post 403, Shoshin wrote:
I'm constantly reassessing reads. But I think there's more than enough information so far to find town/scum among the active players.In post 397, Varsoon wrote:But I generally play with players who are willing to reassess their reads constantly and don't put a ton of stock into page 10 reads.
That's why I'm following you.-
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Varsoon Scatman
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Hey maybe don't be a prat like this.In post 405, Nauci wrote:
I'm glad you decided to respond to pressure with great contributions and sortable content that makes it easy to town read youIn post 369, Xtoxm wrote:Lol @ having 2 strong instant scum reads in a large game. Get ove4 yourself.-
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Varsoon Scatman
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@Skitter: Elaboration on all of your reads would be nice, preferably.
And I've decided that Shoshin is lock-town here and I'll follow them.
My thoughts and reads are compromised, given that my playstyle is so different from anyone else's, so it's impossible for me to come to a correct read on them.
So it's much better to put my stock in someone who is level headed, decisive, and has a 100% record of never mislynching.-
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Varsoon Scatman
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I'm giving it a chance for sure.In post 414, Shoshin wrote:A thought: Nancy once called me "shamelessly bad," "atrocious," and "a blight on the ecosystem" in the middle of a game, and maybe other things I forgot about? It was quite harsh. But now we're friends? So I hope that all the players who dislike me will one day come to enjoy my playstyle.
Show me the light.-
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Varsoon Scatman
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I already shared a lot of my thoughts.In post 418, skitter30 wrote:
ok i get what you're saying and where the frustration comes from (hi she wanted to mislynch in mylo there, remember?) but she's town so i'm just accepting it and moving onIn post 388, Varsoon wrote:@Skitter: Doesn't matter what my thoughts are, I don't understand how other people play, and, therefore, can not come to an accurate read on them.
It's much better play for me to put my trust into Shoshin, who has never mislynched anyone before and who will lead us to certain victory.
i want to try to sort you tho so it would be helpful if you share your thoughts
They were dumb and bad thoughts, but if you want to pick my brain, just ask me direct questions.-
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Varsoon Scatman
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Shoshin's 99.9% town, didn't you read Irrel's post?In post 442, Mitillos wrote:@Varsoon: Is your calling Shoshin town sincere, or are you still upset about the policy lynch thing (or possibly something else)? If it is sincere, please explain your read on her.-
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When I wrote that I figured it'd be between Irrel, Shoshin, and AlmostNancy.In post 443, skitter30 wrote:
@varsoon pleaseIn post 411, skitter30 wrote:
do you still think shoshin is scum? ifnot, who's scum in irrel's proposed townbloc?In post 297, Varsoon wrote:But that's clearly because I am threatened scum who must undermine your town efforts to consolidate power.
Definitely.
It's not because I suspect that there's scum in the block.
why do you think there's scum in this group?In post 302, Varsoon wrote:I do suspect that at least one of Irrel, Shoshin, AlmostNancy, and TheWorst is scum, yes.
(i'm aware that you think shoshin is 99.9% town and that you will be following her to the ends of the earth, etc; i'm more intersted in who you think is scum and why you think there's scum in the group)
Now though, I believe in all of them!
Viva la townblock!-
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Varsoon Scatman
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How deep does that rabbithole go?In post 476, Shoshin wrote:I take back all my claims about Varsoon's meta after looking a bit deeper than two games.-
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@Performer: I mean when you hop on to the Shoshin wagon, though both you and Xtoxm don't look great there. /shrugs.
I felt both of you were repeating a lot of what I was laying down and not doing that much original thinking.
Yeah, that's cool.In post 516, Irrelephant11 wrote:
I don't have ill will towards you, and I came into this game excited to play with the Varsoon who is eagerly trying to improve his ability to get along with other players & play well by joining more newbie games. Please stop giving your best effort to get me to be angry with you.In post 501, Varsoon wrote:
Shoshin's 99.9% town, didn't you read Irrel's post?In post 442, Mitillos wrote:@Varsoon: Is your calling Shoshin town sincere, or are you still upset about the policy lynch thing (or possibly something else)? If it is sincere, please explain your read on her.
Then people used out-of-game reasons to browbeat me into having to accept that sometimes I am a horribly wrong and terribly mean person.
Do you think I should just not trust you at face value? You said Shoshin is 99% town. Is that not true? Why do you want me to fight you on that point? You literally said to lynch you over Shoshin if it came down to it.
At this point it's clear that people would prefer if I just shut up and be complicit with our town commander-in-chief and let us have this great townblock that definitely shouldn't be undermined ever and for sure consists of only town. If I continue to just have pointless fights with Shoshin, it'll just degrade the game quality and Shoshin'll never play with me again and I'll just be angry and no one will be able to accurately read me for it--why would I stay on that path when the other path is easily sheeping someone who's a majority townread and has never mislynched?
I think the reads are awful, but my brain is dumb.In post 517, the worst wrote:
Everything above the pedit is cringeIn post 278, Varsoon wrote:P-EDIT:
Everything below the pedit is locktown-irl
Varsoon I think you're really caught up on like holistic meta stuff and I'm like... not all that interested in it.... do you think the reads have been bad? maliciously intended? which ones? why?
How am I functionally anti-town if I'm helping the townblock lynch scum?In post 518, Mitillos wrote:@Varsoon: Your response tells me that you really don't give a shit right now whether we figure out who is scum or not. You really are making it very difficult to take you seriously and not just dismiss you as functionally anti-town. Mafia is a co-operative game. If you are town, how about you try some calm sincerity? Then the rest of us can see and evaluate your reads, and either vote like you, or voice our disagreements. If you just want to go with what Shoshin says because you expect her to be wrong and want to gloat about it after the fact, then you're just screwing the rest of us over for your personal vendetta. If you're just upset now and you can make it pass, please hurry up and do. Either way, I await honest responses to my questions, once you are ready.
How am I functionally anti-town by making a conscious decision not to fight the global townread?
How am I functionally anti-town for stepping back from a stance of undermining the townblock that will for sure crush scum?
I expect Shoshin to be right because Shoshin has literally never mislynched scum and Irrelephant has a 99.9% townread on Shoshin.
Shoshin's way more in her element than me right now.
Why should I compromise the game and ruin our chances of winning because of some personal thing?-
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Varsoon Scatman
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Varsoon Scatman
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He's a player that I played with a long time ago and had a blast with, but his play here has been very barebones and minimal.In post 569, Shoshin wrote:Varsoon, what's your read on Xtom?
I'm not a huge fan of what's there but I don't think him sheeping my reasons for voting you is particularly duplicitous--he probably was just buying into a lot of what I was laying down.
I wish he'd come back in and play more.
It's not sarcastic shitposting, it's facts. Get with it.In post 570, Nauci wrote:Varsoon, why do you treat the game as if fighting the town read on shoshin or sarcastic shitposting about townreading shoshin are your only options?
Both are unproductive, and there are countless other ways to engage. Ignoring shoshin and her reads, what do you think of other players?
What are your thoughts on AlmostNancy? Specifically, on the Almost50 half, actually.
I'm forgoing a lot of my own agency for what I believe is a plan of action much more likely to result in a win for town.
Yeah, it sucks, and I'm a bit bitter about it and I'm working through that, bear with me, but it really is a pill I need to swallow so that we can come out ahead.
Other players? Just read my posts. I'm probably wrong anyway, so I wouldn't put a lot of stock in my judgments.
I think it's kinda fucked that someone dropped a whole great post about why Irrel could just be obvious conning us and people were all "Oh no this is just irrel lol don't get paranoid"
But that's my paranoia speaking. I was literally wrong on my paranoia on irrel in the newbie game we shared, so I'm probably wrong here.
Best to just trust Shoshin.
I have no idea why AlmostNancy has such a townread. Neither head has done anything that's impressed me or challenged the gamestate, imo.
They're playing really safe despite all the content they've generated, which is actually fairly par for the course for both heads, especially Nancy.
I couldn't tell you about A50 specifically, though, as I haven't really had the time or passion to differentiate the two.-
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Varsoon Scatman
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Varsoon Scatman
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