Death Curse

[Fidget]

Oh I forgot about an entire game mechanic that allows one person outside of Noraa/Bell to have a shot at winning

Oops

[Fidget]

Oh I forgot about an entire game mechanic that allows one person outside of Noraa/Bell to have a shot at winning

Oops

Can you elaborate on that? I think I missed it.

Scum can shoot one player. Let me see if I'm interpreting this right

Fidget gets scrolled (5v1)
UNOwen gets scrolled (4v1)
-
(Let's pretend Noraa is good as dead and is shot)
Gloria gets scrolled (2v1)
Murderkitty gets scrolled (1v1)
Murderkitty has to choose between Pooky/Bell for the win

Ah I was interpreting it wrong, I thought game would end on Murdercat getting the scroll in this scenario, but I think he still counts for wincon so actually nvm.

@Murdercat I'm pretty sure that Pooky can't win by being in top 3

[Fidget]

He's literally gonna take out an inner town block member and that's stupid

I think if Murder is under the impression scum!Pooky can win by getting to top 3, and he thinks there's a chance that is the case, then it makes sense to get that elim while he can.

But I don't think that is true. Scum!Pooky doesn't win with top 3 and I assume you would side with Bell over him anyway.

[Fidget]

He's literally gonna take out an inner town block member and that's stupid

He is missing my point entirely. My scroll death on D1, meant Pooky scroll death.

For the record if I were scum, I would have never considered your vote being on Pooky during V/LA as meaning anything. Or at least I seriously doubt it. And I even if I did realize somehow, I also doubt I would go out of my way to defend you for it.

[Fidget]

@Murdercat I'm pretty sure that Pooky can't win by being in top 3

I am worried about this scenario. Let's say it is you with the final scroll. You have to choose who to shoot in Pooky/Bell/Noraa. Suddenly Noraa is confused. Maybe Shelly was bussing Bell and all that stuff was fake and it's actually Pooky who should be in the final 2. Noraa tells you to shoot Bell and because she is town you go with it. Pooky wins as scum. There is no one else who makes it to that point who that happens with.

Ah, I see, turning a top 3 into a top 2.

You control one of the shots. You'll get to shoot Pooky.

[Fidget]

But murder, think about it, u can do this tomorrow if ur really worried about it. But why start killing off inner town block when there's literally outer town block people that are legit like 20x more likely to be scum :/

Cause Pooky might activate his pocket powers and sweet talk his way into top 2.

But I agree, Murder will get the chance no matter what.

[Fidget]

If I’m scum here with Pooky

town slip. there's only one scum left.

Not Gloria specifically... she's doing a hypothetical... nevermind it doesn't really matter.

[Fidget]

You control one of the shots. You'll get to shoot Pooky.

There's the possbility I get shot 3rd today. I am nervous because Noraa is wavering on me.

If you get shot third and I'm alive then I'll almost certainly shoot Pooky

[Fidget]

I assume you would side with Bell over him anyway.

Murder may be right that I would side with Pooky if it comes to that but I dont think it will so we are literally just worrying our asses over nothing cuz I dont think there's a deep deepwolf. I think its just uno or fidget, period.

Oh haha. So Murdercat's paranoia is totally justified, then.

[Fidget]

Oh haha. So Murdercat's paranoia is totally justified, then.

Well but Bell and Pooky and Gloria are on the same level of towny so I would say it doesn't matter which ones make it to the end, technically speaking.

Bell is leagues above them

[Fidget]

I don't like what is going to happen in this game if Fidget and Uno flip town,

This is basically impossible imo.

I'd give it about 50% odds

[Fidget]

Oh haha. So Murdercat's paranoia is totally justified, then.

Well but Bell and Pooky and Gloria are on the same level of towny so I would say it doesn't matter which ones make it to the end, technically speaking.

Bell is leagues above them

At least you understand why I am nervous this 100% solved win could somehow be destroyed.

Yeah we're actually about to lose if Pooky is scum, you're right.

[Fidget]

As long as you or I shoot pooky it's fine.

I am glad I understand this now, close one.

[Fidget]

I don't like what is going to happen in this game if Fidget and Uno flip town, but as long as I'm the one with the final shot I guess it is fine. Would much rather do Pooky and Uno today though.

Why aren’t you listening to anything I’m saying? That’s a seriously bad take.

No?

before Pooky or Fidget

Woah woah woah. u dont get to lim pooky if ur town.

Why not? That'd be game-winning.

[Fidget]

Maybe we ought to go Flea -> Noraa -> Uno
This basically ends game imo. I dont trust any of y'all anymore :/
most of u peoples out here like yo lets just kill off all the inner town block.

Noraa you're technically the reason I want to do exactly that. You're causing it by having a top 2 I disagree with.

[Fidget]

As long as you or I shoot pooky it's fine.

I am glad I understand this now, close one.

Actually there is the dayvig but if I ever get shot someone has to shoot Pooky then.

If I get scrolled third, and then you get dayvigged tomorrow, and then Noraa gets Bell killed for the loss, I'm quitting mafia forever

[Fidget]

Maybe we ought to go Flea -> Noraa -> Uno
This basically ends game imo. I dont trust any of y'all anymore :/
most of u peoples out here like yo lets just kill off all the inner town block.

Noraa you're technically the reason I want to do exactly that. You're causing it by having a top 2 I disagree with.

You also don’t see me as obvtown, so I’m not sure this is convincing.

I'm reading you as obvtown because you are so adamant you're obvtown, but I didn't actually bother to check hahaha.

But yeah you don't beat Noraa/Bell so it doesn't really matter. You are above Pooky though

[Fidget]

If I get scrolled third, and then you get dayvigged tomorrow, and then Noraa gets Bell killed for the loss, I'm quitting mafia forever

This is actually what I am worried about though :lol:

That's a career ender

[Fidget]

Fidget is smart and posts walls indicating high effort. Who ever it is will be confirmed town at that point

<3

I will definitely try, but I wouldn't say my chances of getting it right are particularly special.

[Fidget]

Fred switching from Adorable to LLD means nothing even if I were scum, and I will maintain that until my grave. He was never planning on shooting Adorbs and there is no reason to even slightly think he would.

I am down getting it 2nd though. I think I might have it.

[Fidget]

Sure that's fine with me too

But I did like the idea of fidget getting the final shot because I have a lot of faith in fidget

Ooh. Now I'm a tad nervous.

[Fidget]

Honestly, my call at the moment is to go Fidget > Gloria/UNOwen.

Freds hurt switch is still in my mind, and gloria seems far too damn keen to have this scroll. UNOwens refusal to locktown Noraa matches the scum MO this game.

I’m town and I think Fidget is also. Yeah, I did want it because unlike you, I’d actually take out someone who might be scum. You are laughably bad at this game.

Anyway, if you actually want to be town hero, you give it to Owno because I think he’s the last scum but hey, you do you. :lol:

???????????????????

We have taken out 4/5 scum. The last one is theoretically the hardest to find because now we're left to basically the townread players. I don't blame anyone for not seeing who it is.

You are laughably bad at this game.

Seriously?

[Fidget]

Told you Flea.

Okay, Owno, Pooky, Fidget: tell me why it isn’t you: Go.

If your intention was to taunt Flea into giving you the scroll, what is this supposed to be?

Scum perhaps tried to setup a deepwolf by setting up the 1v1 between shelly and Uno

It's plausible enough.

You intentionally acted to piss me off, you intentionally withheld information from me and wasn't discussing crap with me, you just want the scroll so you can be the big damned hero. Not only that, you then GLOATED that my "read" was wrong.

Yes.

[Fidget]

Spoiler:

I know self-meta is sketchy, but the difference is so stark I hope you will understand why I am raising it.

Consider UNOwen: I play one game at a time. Only one non-newbie game completed since I created this account. No play for years before that, though I guess you only have my word. Only one scum game, in which I did alright but was worried about getting executed from literally my first post and pretty pessimistic about my own position throughout.

Consider shelly: This is only the second game I've played against her but I'm sure you have picked up as much as I have that she plays a lot and is a confident and aggresive scum player.

Does it seem plausible that between the two of us we cook up a bussing strategy that would rely on me being the one to carry the team to victory?
Remember that shelly was the one who was arguing in bad faith, never me so I was always going to win provided people actually read our respective arguments.

Note that Titus also jumped on the wrong side of this bus with her own bad faith attack on me.
Note that when MUSH asked for my top scum read instead of going for Titus my answer was that I'd prefer DGB.

Note that I wanted to policy execute Lapsa, and pressed for shelly to be scrolled at every stage beyond the first.

Note that at the start of phase 2, I wanted shelly given the scroll but was also fine with cursing Fred - never once argued for looking elsewhere or did anything that could be even remotely interpreted as helpful to him.

Consider all of this, and realise that in order for me to be scum I have to have decided to ruthlessly bus all of my team mates and to try and go for a solo win against a solid town block and a raft of town read players where I have near the lowest presence in thread and was the least trusted player on day 1 (according to Toog's voting system).

Then look through the mafia pt from my newbie game (viewtopic.php?f=90&t=83350 - it's only five pages) and consider if the player you see there, really has the confidence, skill or arrogance to attempt that.

If you believe the answer is yes, then a) idk whether to be flattered or insulted and b) you're completely wrong.

Actually, perhaps the intention was not for you to be the carry. Maybe you were supposed to be bussed. I am certain the initial plan was not "Get UNOwen to deepwolf" if you are scum, though.

You make a fair point though that you played very much against your teammates, and them to you, in the case you are scum. You would have been pretty ruthless to them.

I think that in my case and your case, we played decently counter to our team. I think Pooky and Murderkitty were better at assisting scum this game, Pooky for being good with nuking Pooky/Taylor/Noraa + defending Fred, and Murderkitty for ALSO supporting that nuke, trying to get Noraa killed for a while, and wanting LLD killed late as well.

I've been thinking a lot about Titus' vote on UNO as a counterwagon to shelly. It was really bad, and I struggle to understand why she made it. A desperate attempt at avoiding S>T>S, or is she trying to spew false associatives?

Mm. I've been considering Pooky a large amount because I don't think it's UNOwen a lot of the time. My Pooky read is completely based off his character rather than his play, so I find it more vulnerable to being inaccurate. Murderkitty I also consider because he worked to get many townies killed and also attempted to kill some more around the area where he felt strong scum was probably snowing us.

I think my next homework is checking out Pooky's arguments, so I can get a better idea of his play.

[Fidget]

I already had it by then so your point is . . . ?

And . . . it obviously was or the game would have ended with my receiving the scroll. So am I missing something because it reads to me as if we are in total agreement?

Should I have been nicer about how I went about it? Obviously yes, which is WHY I sincerely apologized to Flea. I unfortunately can’t force them to accept it. I suppose it’s possible that they and maybe you as well? have completely misconstrued what I actually meant. The fact they wanted you to possibly give it to me, meant that they still against all clear evidence to the contrary wrongly sr me, or they wouldn’t have been considering that.

I was pissed that you intentionally tried to make Flea mad in order to get them to give you the scroll. And then you just kind of kept doing it after you got the scroll,

Told you Flea.

Which made me more upset. That is what I mean.

I see your apology. I'm sorry if you feel that I'm trying to beat you down, it just made me upset to see that happen as it did. I agree with Murder that I mostly wanted to emphasize that Flea had the right to be upset.

[Fidget]

I'm not upset anyone, by the way. Especially since you are apologetic for it. I'm sorry for making you upset.

@Fidget, tell me why you aren’t scum here?

I'll get to this eventually. You're talking a towncase of myself, yes?

Off the bat I would say I don't hard tunnel my entire scumteam for the majority of the game, I probably would have let shelly off when a bunch of ppl were saying she's town. But instead I just kinda voteparked her permanently lol.

Noraa I would have likely either held onto being scum longer, or perhaps white knighted. I had a much more awkward.. "she's scum" -> "weEeeh maybe not" progression which is indictative of my town lack of confidence I usually have as town.

[Fidget]

I'm not upset

anymore*

, by the way. Especially since you are apologetic for it. I'm sorry for making you upset.

[Fidget]

I do not think you are justified in being upset that they had you as a scumread. I do not think anyone can really justifiably being angry at someone for misreading them, especially when every remaining player is out of the PoE.

I don't know. I guess I just never really got why you were *super* obvtown, so that doesn't help. I thought you were regular obvtown.

Sorry, I don’t mean to take this out on you but my entire day has been absolute shit since this all went down.

Don't worry about it.

[Fidget]

Don't worry about it.

Oh, and I also hope it gets better.

Do I have homework besides towncasing myself? I also was supposed to read Pooky I think.

[Fidget]

I was mildly irritated by that but I’m extremely hurt, livid and very pissed off by the aftermath. I disagree. They were clearly ignoring the consensus decision of my being in the top 4, so I do think I am justified at being slightly frustrated about that.

I have been long thinking about throwing the scroll into the "top 4", specifically to stop the player I think is most likely scum out of there from winning if they are indeed scum. I am ignoring consensus. Err, I was back when I thought I was next, anyway. So I guess I don't really mind considering those options.

I'm not really feeling it right now, I'm essentially certain it's not Noraa/Bell, so I can't find much extra motivation to bother. I'm sure I'll get the towncase done sometime later.

I really doubt I am remotely capable of discussing this calmly after everything she said to me, so you doubling down on your initial reaction is probably not a great idea rn. As far as I’m concerned she beat up on me enough for the next millennium and after I sincerely apologized she continued to attack me because of course my feelings don’t matter for shit apparently.

I said what I felt, you apologized for it, I responded, and I'm done talking about it now.

[Fidget]

Who do you think is scum in the top 4? I’m assuming Pooky or do you have some other spicy read? MC? I really think he’s town. Why would scum!him want Owno rather than him getting into the top 4? or am I thoroughly misunderstanding you here?

I think Pooky and Murderkitty are the only ones who stand a chance at flipping scum in there. Pooky especially, because my read of him is based on character over actual gameplay so I might be wrong. Plus he hasn't really been on scum, he's mostly relying on how scum interacted with him.

Murdercat had some points where he tried to veer us away from the Frederick path and onto Pooky or LLD.

I very much like these two. But I do not like them as much as Noraa and Bell. No amount of reading I've done has changed this.

@Fidget, please don’t leave me hanging like this? Who do you think is scum in the top 4?

My apologies, I'm being a tad suffocated by classwork at the moment. Pooky, and if not him, then Murder.

[Fidget]

The reason I talk about slapping Pooky so much is that if he's scum, he stands a chance of persuading Noraa to side with him over Bell. And then Noraa can convince whoever the person with the scroll is.

UNOwen is never surviving today and tomorrow so I guess I don't really mind as much.

And wow, it's hard viewing either of these two as scum anyway. UNOwen has a lot going for him too. But it's one of them.

[Fidget]

My fear is that Fidget takes you, then Owno somehow gets to the end of the game. That must not happen. He is going to try to turn Bell and MC against Noraa and I think we lose if that happens. No one should be sr Noraa at this point and I don’t trust him not to turn Bell and MC against her and be the last one standing. That’s why I think it’s him.

I know you’re saying now, you won’t let him get into your heads but even Noraa tr him for his suspicions on her and I honestly don’t see how that’s even remotely townie, because Noraa’s never scum here, so I find that extremely worrisome.

Noraa, Bell, MC are townlocks. But in the extremely unlikely chance the game is miraculously still going on at that point, it’s 100% never Noraa and extremely unlikely to ever be Bell but I seriously doubt it ever comes to that anyway.

Now Idk what Fidget is talking about but I certainly hope it isn’t about MC.

Don't worry, I don't think that UNOwen ever convince multiple players to doubt Noraa.

[Fidget]

i am willing to take scroll first tomm

if that is what it takes to settle your mind figet.

If you're town I don't think there'll be a tomorrow of course, but works for me.

elim unowen today and mc/fidget/me will pass around the peace pipe tomm?

long live Noraa and Bell

That is what I want yes.

Long live Noraa and Bell

[Fidget]

I will refrain from talking much about my plans in the event we do go another day, but I will echo that I really don't want to see that happen and would very much prefer if we didn't, haha.

[Fidget]

I'm not so much as paranoid of Murder as I just feel he's a better target than Noraa/Bell. I will stand against anything that threatens to stop Noraa/Bell from being the finale. Previously that was shooting Pooky if I got the scroll second today, because there was a chance he could slip in for Bell.

[Fidget]

My feelings that it is uno have risen dramatically over the last 24 hours, to the point I think shooting anyone else would actually be a mistake

It is a mistake if what Noraa says is true and he would actually shoot her tomorrow. That'd be disasterous. Although you could just shoot UNO third so maybe it's fine actually.

[Fidget]

My feelings that it is uno have risen dramatically over the last 24 hours, to the point I think shooting anyone else would actually be a mistake

It is a mistake if what Noraa says is true and he would actually shoot her tomorrow. That'd be disasterous. Although you could just shoot UNO third so maybe it's fine actually.

[Fidget]

I thought we were just playing for "bragging rights" on keeping as many townies alive as possible by having it correct as quickly as possible, I didn't think we were actually debating whether or not Noraa/Bell were the strongest.

I still don't think we are, actually. We seem to be in agreement.

[Fidget]

We need both Bell and Noraa to stand firm together. This is the path to victory.

Frankly speaking

Bell and Noraa have no choice.

Me and Murdercatto going to drag them to the Altar come hell or high water.

The bear's right. They couldn't do anything about it if they tried.

[Fidget]

Murdercat has just hit all the town notes. Paranoia, even interactions, emotional tone, post frequency. Focus. Etc.

He wasn't very accurate, but it's impossible to doubt his intentions imo.

I agree, during the stretch where he explained to me his worry about scum!Pooky possibly winning too, it's very hard for me to imagine it coming from scum.

It's also hard to believe Pooky's scum who is this chill with going down.

I think we're at the end of the line.

[Fidget]

Noraa paranoia, if it helps the last game I played Noraa-shelly almost won because they went for a hard distancing strategy and shelly was trusted on that basis. The way she ran around day one declaring Noraa was confirmed scum but never really tried to convince anyone of it strongly reminded me of that.

No one really listened to shelly's scumread on Noraa in that game past the first few of D1, and Noraa was highly townread by the end of day one, with shelly agreeing if I recall correctly. They did a lot of fighting without a lot of substance.

Was shelly really not trying to convince anyone on Noraa this game? Hm. Fred certainly was, so there's that. I believe shelly mostly kept her vote away from Noraa, but she took pot shots at her constantly (like this one)

also I would be happy with a Noraa lethal that slot still floundering

It's not terribly unlike how I'd expect shelly to approach town Noraa. She probably expected Noraa to die down the line, but didn't want to be seen as the *main* driver for it. Which she wouldn't have been, I don't think.

Contrast that with her behavior towards Fred which was a total red flag for me:

You know, with 17 players left in this game, I really would appreciate it if everyone only post if they have something meaningful to say. Below is an example of completely inessential conversation that could have been done using the site chat. Please use the site chat for conversations like this. You won't get banned. It's not game related.

Fredrick: complains about no game advancing content
Fredrick again: Doesn't give game advancing content at all

lol
fred order these names from town->scum NOW
fidget
taylor
theta
bell
gloria

[Fidget]

This is how scum wins. They stir up paranoia and get town to canabalize itself.

Well I mean, it doesn't really matter if he's scum stirring up paranoia because he can't win after he's dead. I'll still listen to what he has to say. With the way I see it currently though, I don't see a case for Noraa.

[Fidget]

Towncasing myself... let me see....

I don't.. think I ever really townread a single flipped scum player across the course this game. I gave Titus a bit of space between the rest of my PoE due to a couple people saying she was on her town meta, and I wrongfully called Titus/DGB disaligned.

My mistakes were mostly in wrongfully scumreading Noraa and Adorable. I suspect that as scum, I would have taken a more confident stance on Noraa one way or the other, and

definitely

would not have returned Adorable to my townpool after scumreading there so long. Possibly same for Noraa, although not sure. I feel like if I were scum I'd have much too counter to my partners to really be sane play. I am generally an unsure busser, as I don't want to upset my teammates, so I'd have to be pretty sure they're okay with it.

Specific to Adorable, I would have definitely started pushing her after the Theta miselim and tried to construe that as bad looking for her if possible. But I kinda forgot Adorable existed in favor of shelly for a while there? Speaking of that..

The 3 day long shelly 1v1, lol. There was a period where I could have wavered on her (I seem to recall Murder, Gloria, Pooky? and others calling her town at some points), possibly multiple periods I'm not sure. I was content to essentially keep my vote on her continuously without really thinking much about other options. I guess I can't really prove it but I would never take a route like that as scum, I would leave open the option of letting her off, jeez.

Pretty sure shelly was trying to set me up to die after the Fred wagon here

{Lady}
{Pooky, Noraa, Mushy}
{Gloria, Murdercat, Bell}
{Titus}
{Taylor, shellyc, Lapsa(DGB), Flea, UNOwen, Fred, Adorable}

No love for my scummates, I guess. To be fair! DGB adopted a strategy like that:

Spoiler:

TOWN

(in random order)
DGB
Tayl0r - town due to other players' attacks
MUSHSHAGANA - I can't say I agree with a lot of reads but they seem well thought out
Gloria Cleary - very earnest thought processes.
PookyTheMagicalBear - calling him town to lift his spirits
Bell - cricket poster, I like the clean calls though
MURDERCAT - a lot of idle questions that sound scummy but too many town tells to ignore.
UNOwen - is right about shelly bad faith interactions, so town
Adorable - I love the push on Noraa
Fidget - Analytical and solvey

NULL

Flea The Magician - urgh, this lurksack is hard to scrutinize, I hate their reads list >>>viewtopic.php?p=12288996#p12288996
UNOwen - not really null, that's a town read for me, but I have to downgrade due to VCA.

SCUM

Noraa - how has this slot not been yeeted? Trash cricket posting. Cringingly manipulative.
Titus - roller derby scum
shellyc - more of a prediction than a read ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Although, I suppose she didn't have much of a choice with shelly, Titus was a desperation play, and Noraa was obviously still her strongest, incorrect read.

It seems to me that if I'm scum, I made no attempt to actually win the game almost at all. Maybe the Adorable push, but I dropped Adorable at the critical moments of the game in favor of, everyone else. Fred, shelly, Titus. Every time. Not even in a compromise way.

It'd make more sense if I was close to the top of the town list and had a shot at a deepwolf win, but I feel as if I've been dancing with death almost the entirety of this game, so that isn't really the case.

But sure, maybe I'm just kinda bad at scum, and I am! (although I don't know why I'd try so much bussing). This towncase is really only stronger than possibly UNOwen's, but no more than that.

I'm sleepy.

[Fidget]

What do all of you make of Owno still thinking Flea or myself could still be scum here? When he said that about Flea, Pooky set him straight but now he’s also suggesting there’s still a possibility that I could still be scum. Genuine townslip or fake?

Because people continue to say that the last scum here never gets the scroll but he seems to be ignoring that for some reason?

Oh, is that what he meant by this?

Is it unlikely? Sure. Is it as unlikely as MC!scum, Bell!scum or Gloria!scum? Not IMO.

I have no idea what's going through his head there exactly.. but I think it's more of a slip he missed this than an alignment-indictative one. Although I may be biased at this point because I struggle to see it being anyone but him.

[Fidget]

Owno, I can’t be scum here anymore than Flea can be or the game would already be over.. Last scum never gets the scroll, they just die.

Yes I know, I was talking from my perspective at the start of this day.

Ah. That makes much more sense. Good night, everyone.

[Fidget]

You really had to instawagon me, didn't you?

It's fine. I can't be made paranoid.

[Fidget]

Anyway, I'm glad I get to be around on the last day with all of you. Should be fun.

[Fidget]

Yeah I mean what else?

Coulda at least waited til I was awake.. not that it seriously could have gone anywhere else, but still.

Imma go.

You should let Fidget Wall.
It'll be fun.

Thank you Bell.

[Fidget]

What will help you Fidget? What are you thinking?
I will probably do some VCA.

I'm planning on giving equal weight to Pooky, Murder, and Bell, then seeing where that gets me.

I kinda have stuff to do right now.. my landlord's garage is burning down outside, and I got lots of classwork. I'll be back in a while lol.

[Fidget]

I don't think there's a chance I give it to Noraa or really expect anyone to give it to her. I'll do her fourth if I have time, though.

[Fidget]

I don't think it's against win con if you don't expect to ever be in final 2
It might be that our best chance is to scroll Bell but we look terrible for suggesting it
If we are both town then whichever one of us is scrolled has to figure that out

You do look silly for suggesting this.

That's ok, I'd rather look silly and have a chance at winning still

I've done this before, suggesting a truce with the other most suspected player in order to get the lesser suspected one. It didn't work out, though, because that's exactly what scum would have had to done in my shoes.

Still, I wouldn't have done it as scum. I did it because I thought we were town that were going to lose.

[Fidget]

HURT: PookyBear

[Fidget]

That's ok, I'd rather look silly and have a chance at winning still

Your chances of winning with that strategy are 0.

Maybe you are right and I should accept that if you or Noraa are scum you beat me

Never. If you were to somehow realize that Pooky is town at some point today, I would expect you to advocate for them instead. It's the only thing that can be done.

Garage is.. well the forest isn't burned down so it should be alright. Will be back to do a final review later.

[Fidget]

Pooky, does not a single part of you take a step back and worry that you may be making the same mistake as you did last time?

Hm, maybe not. Perhaps there really is no point for you to think about Noraa and Bell anymore. Still, even then, it is kinda funny.

[Fidget]

It would be incredibly selfish of me to put my own fears and anxiety over what the collective team wants just because I happened to live for longer.

I must finish the job - I would be unable to handle the consequences of deviating from the plan and losing.

You're supposed to shoot who you think has the most likely chance of being scum. I would be upset with someone who is unwilling to do what they thought had the best chance of winning just because I (as a dead person) had suspected someone else.

I am aware that not everyone thinks like that. You are right that it would be unfun to be berated by the dead players if you avoid their wishes get it wrong. If we keep it as Noraa/Bell, then we collectively lost, except maybe UNOwen if Noraa is scum and Noraa if Bell is scum. So perhaps we should do that, but I don't think it's right to go against what you think in favor of the dead, and I don't think it's selfish to do so, either.

I am very impressed by Murder's handling of the late game if scum. His early to midgame pushes are very dodgy in hindsight from what I skimmed, though.

Need to get work done, need to stop posting..

[Fidget]

Pooky is very clearly annoyed and not really playing how I'd have expected him to. However, setting that aside, he does not suspect scum day one. His suspicions are placed on Taylor, Noraa, and Bell early. End of day he has 0 scum in his proposition, Noraa/Taylor/UNOwen/Theta/Vax. I would slightly expect for him to suspect at least one partner but also if he thinks he's going to die, maybe he's fucking with associatives? He was hard tunneling Taylor with a side suspicion of Noraa, it seemed like he would die after Taylor did.

Many of his defenses actually end up being calling team propositions bad rather than scumreads on him bad (See: Noraa/Pooky, Taylor/Pooky, Isis/Pooky fanfiction). The best looking thing for him on D1 was his willingness to go Taylor->Pooky->Noraa. It is.. possible that this plan actually came as a result of how much he was not enjoying the game.

The first time I noticed Pooky slightly suspecting scum is 3355 and it's alongside Murdercat + Mushy in a group of 3. (Scratch that, he rescinds it in 3783.)

Wanted Taylor over Fred obviously, compromised on Fred in a "Well we lose" attitude kind of way..

Tends to discredit Murdercat at every stage: ("We're fucked if Murder is town", "Good joke" (in response to Murder saying Pooky isn't townread enough to be killed), "You're reading shelly bad", and so on and so on. He devotes a lot of time trying to push Murderkitty out of the townbloc.

I'm at post 5578 and Pooky has yet to suspect scum. He is currently defending shelly. He defends her pretty big.

He mentions if he were scum his reads would be better. Yeah I am getting a tad weirded out that he doesn't suspect any of his partners ever. Oh, I forgot, Pooky never busses. So I suppose it makes sense actually.

6482 he concedes Titus/DGB are scum, so this is the first time he's got them. Everyone was saying it was them at that point including DGB, so there wasn't exactly much of a choice.

i never deepwolf except that time i was put with the most suicidal team ive ever been put on

I don't know. This scumteam got pretty wiped out. What would you have done to stop that exactly, other than what you did? Which was push a CW to Fred, hard defend shelly, discredit Murder from the townbloc, and only push town for the first few days. There's only so much one bear can do.

[Fidget]

I feel like any complaint I might have with Murder trying to save scum will just have a stronger example of Pooky doing it to match.

The chances of me shooting Noraa or Bell are incredibly, incredibly low.

[Fidget]

I hadn't really realized Pooky tried so hard to save his partners, previously I had him at the bottom because my read of his attitude was prone to failure, mostly..

Pooky doesn't bus.. he tries to manipulate the game to his partners advantages and then die if necessary. That is my understanding of his scum game, anyway. It is odd for him to be the last bear standing yes, but I suppose if you read it in that light, there is no reason to think he wasn't trying his best to save his teammates. He wanted to go down with Taylor, perhaps that ties into his resigned attitude during the mid game.

Another thing I thought Pooky wouldn't do as scum is taunt Murderkitty so much. I have a weird tendency to associate antagonism with towniness.

[Fidget]

Yes, I am signing your death warrant with Pooky so it isn't terribly necessary to review there.

Everytime I look Noraa's way, I get confronted with some new reason to think she's town. I think if she's scum somehow, she played brilliantly and his partners set her up really well (possibly on accident but still).

I have a barrier between me and reading Bell. Every time I think about suspecting him, I can feel him silently calling me a moron.

[Fidget]

Let's go 3 for 3 on the emotion reads this game. Bell, Tayl0r, LLD.

Did I do any emotional reaction reads besides these? I can't decide whether or not to count Pooky. Hm hm hm. Well, I've already been bit before this game on these kinds of reads anyway.

It is my understanding that Bell's scum game is not terribly strong, so he was out of his range this game. I'm probably just going to skim the couple scum game's he's played rather than reread here.

[Fidget]

So after reading 2d3 and Antechamber, I concur with what Pooky (his scumpartner but still lol) said in Antechamber: his posts are kinda boring. Even his most "confident" reads he doesn't really do much to push. He has some big effort posts where he gives reads on the whole playerlist in Antechamber, so he has the effort, but I guess it doesn't really seem like he's doing to affect the gamestate. I think the crowd in Antechamber was really experienced, though, so that must have been difficult.

He never tries to make anyone feel bad for scumreading him in these two games, so there's that.

Overall it does feel a tad night and day. He's more chill, less responsive. I don't think he even got upset at being suspected a single time, which is a staple of what I expect from town!Bell after my games with him. There's a tiny bit of room for error because I think he was a bit "intimidated" by the Antechamber crowd, though.

[Fidget]

Why I'm not scum:

Shelly tried to pocket me
Titus tried to yeet me multiple times
Titus passed scroll to Taylor in hopes of getting Taylor to scroll me
DGB tried to buddy up to me immediately upon replacing into the game.
Fred got upset that I was getting townread and tried to get people to not townread me.

I feel like this is weaker than my towncase was. There's nothing about Pooky even on it.

I would tack on the "I never deepwolf as scum" to it, but I went over that it seems like he didn't have a choice, he fought against it, and he actively tried to die. So I'm not sure how much harder he could have tried not to deepwolf.

[Fidget]

I think that pass to Taylor was just what scum needed for Noraa to cement Pooky as her strongest townread. If Murder had been taken out (+ take me out too, or perhaps I just don't realize), they stood a chance of winning that. Or UNOwen could have given it to Noraa and have Pooky activate the charm from there.

Decisions that seem suicidal for scum are never out of the question when it's 1 on many..

I wonder how close we got to Flea>Gloria>Fidget , UNOwen>Noraa>Murdercat happening.

[Fidget]

Really tempted to put this one to bed, but I was really hopeful it'd be UNOwen last time so.

I guess it was Pooky's contentedness with this outcome that made me think that, though.

[Fidget]

doesn't matter who is scum here cuz they definitely gave up their partners. Thats an argument that everyone here can make imo.

Except Pooky who exclusively pushed town and defended his partners.

I think I was the only one not content with unowen but ok :3

Well, UNOwen living would have been a big plus for you, wouldn't it have been?

But by contentedness I meant murder/you/me suiciding.

[Fidget]

@Fidget

There's no way the game goes this way if I am scum.

What more could you have done?

[Fidget]

@Fidget

There's no way the game goes this way if I am scum.

What more could you have done?

[Fidget]

I've reviewed Bell and Noraa, and I do not feel like I can justify suspecting them.

They have a lot more going for them than Pooky does.

[Fidget]

I would be surprised at everyone here flipping scum, except for Pooky.

Even if I were to entertain a Noraa toss, I think we lose if she's town because she wouldn't pass it to Pooky.

Bell would, but I trust Bell to live on more than Murder.

..

I think I'm past thinking about this, now. I wish Bell and Noraa long and fulfilling lives.

[Fidget]

VOTE: Pooky

[Fidget]

Sigh

[Fidget]

Oh.

Fidget isn't even dead.

Hi

[Fidget]

Fidget, you've read my forest fire game right?
So you do know that I pretty much never bus as scum by leading a wagon directly on a player without at least significant suspicion pointed their way.
Could you confirm that?

Yes. You were town in that game, though. Are you referring to how you probably brought that up as a defense in that game?

[Fidget]

Right, so...

My initial reaction was that it's either just Murdercat, or possibly Noraa who is about to upset us. I wasn't really thinking Bell.

But given I have been incapable of detecting this last player, I don't know how much I trust that.

Sorry about that Pooky.

[Fidget]

It's p common knowledge that I despise red role pms. Thats not what my "wtf" was directed at. It was the thought that I'd stroll into a scum pt and be like "ok everyone tunnel me" like seriously that's ridiculous....

if you r scum, nearly your entire d1 wagon was town i think?

It was. The only scum on wagon was shelly who was comically confident that Noraa was scum.

[Fidget]

Fred basically just hyper focused on Noraa upon replacing in which was odd. But yes, he had no chance of actually killing her by the time the push started.

Titus also had no chance of killing her

DGB also had no chance of killing her

The only time Noraa was at risk of dying was start of game when maj of town was voting her, but scum did not vote her back then, besides shelly.

[Fidget]

We were probably all right about Noraa D1

Should probably dig up UNOwen's thoughts..

[Fidget]

We shouldn't just assume this. She could easily still be town from the perspective of scum just trying to circle her like vultures smelling vulnerable prey.

Maybe. It is sort of odd she didn't get finished off D1, but then every single scum decided she was public enemy #1 after we had all flipped on it and decided she was town.

I never scroll Noraa unless Pooky and Fidget have both been flipped first. The only circumstance where I scroll her now is faced with a final 3 of Bell/MURDERCAT/Noraa and even then I would consider all arguments since the game would count on it, although my expectation in that situation would be that it would end with me cursing Noraa and leaving MURDERCAT/Bell as the last players standing.

Re: Noraa paranoia, if it helps the last game I played Noraa-shelly almost won because they went for a hard distancing strategy and shelly was trusted on that basis. The way she ran around day one declaring Noraa was confirmed scum but never really tried to convince anyone of it strongly reminded me of that.

Is it unlikely? Sure. Is it as unlikely as MC!scum, Bell!scum or Gloria!scum? Not IMO.

How is Noraa still a question mark?

I have a very heavy bias towards the idea that I was right all along, so will probably keep the paranoia there until the very end of the game. I may also be holding an irrational grudge at the fact that when Vax had the scroll she suggested killing me for information but not shelly who she thought was scum. I do think she is town especially with her more recent posts, but there is still room for that to be wrong.

[Fidget]

Bell really isn't that good at scum, Noraa is pretty good at it though.

Mm, who knows though. It may as well be either at this point. Do you even want me to try and review and give input? I'm probably not going to be any more likely to be right so you may as well pick.

[Fidget]

? I don't think anyone is really, you can't be upset people are considering you could be scum

Fidget and Bell both just called me scum.

I'm giving serious thought to it because I don't.. really think it's Bell.

I'm not saying you

are

scum though, if I did that's not what I meant. I have to think about it, though.

[Fidget]

It is seriously odd that all 4 dead scum had Noraa as their strongest SR. That is just.. weird. But none of them actually voted her on D1 when she was actually dying, except for shelly, and even then shelly was sort of hands-off with her vote.

Of course, Zdenek, Lapsa, and Vault were all afk! So, maybe that plays into it.

[Fidget]

Oh, I forgot, if Murderkitty is scum then there's 2 scum on Noraa wagon D1, so mm.

Spoiler: D1

Votecount 1.1

[4] PookyTheMagicalBear:

Isis

,

Fidget

,

Zdenek

,

Hopkirk

[1]

Tayl0r Swift

:

Shellyc

[1]

Shellyc

:

VaultDweller

[1]

Bell

:

Lapsa

[13] Not Voting:

PookyTheMagicalBear,

Tayl0r Swift

,

Gloria Cleary

,

Toogeloo

,

Theta Alpine

,

Bell

, MURDERCAT,

UNOwen

,

MUSHSHAGANA

,

Flea The Magician

,

Adorable

,

Lady Lambdadelta

, Noraa

Votecount 1.2

[4] PookyTheMagicalBear:

Isis

,

Fidget

,

Zdenek

,

Toogeloo

[4] Noraa:

UNOwen

,

Lady Lambdadelta

,

Hopkirk

, MURDERCAT

[2]

Tayl0r Swift

:

Shellyc

,

Tayl0r Swift

[2]

Shellyc

:

VaultDweller

,

Bell

[2]

Bell

:

Lapsa

,

Flea The Magician

[1]

Adorable

:

Noraa

[5] Not Voting:

PookyTheMagicalBear,

Gloria Cleary

,

MUSHSHAGANA

,

Adorable

,

Theta Alpine

Votecount 1.3

[8] Noraa:

UNOwen

,

Lady Lambdadelta

,

Hopkirk

, MURDERCAT, PookyTheMagicalBear,

Adorable

,

Flea The Magician

,

Toogeloo

[2]

Tayl0r Swift

:

Shellyc

,

Tayl0r Swift

[2]

Shellyc

:

VaultDweller

,

Bell

[1] PookyTheMagicalBear:

Isis

[1]

Bell

:

Lapsa

[1]

Adorable

:

Noraa

[5] Not Voting:

Gloria Cleary

,

MUSHSHAGANA

,

Theta Alpine

,

Fidget

,

Zdenek

Votecount 1.4

[9] Noraa:

UNOwen

,

Lady Lambdadelta

,

Hopkirk

, MURDERCAT, PookyTheMagicalBear,

Adorable

,

Flea The Magician

,

Toogeloo

,

Shellyc

[1]

Tayl0r Swift

:

Tayl0r Swift

[2]

Shellyc

:

VaultDweller

,

Bell

[1] PookyTheMagicalBear:

Isis

[1]

Bell

:

Lapsa

[1]

Adorable

:

Noraa

[5] Not Voting:

Gloria Cleary

,

MUSHSHAGANA

,

Theta Alpine

,

Fidget

,

Zdenek

Votecount 1.5

[5] Noraa:

UNOwen

,

Hopkirk

,

Adorable

,

Toogeloo

, MURDERCAT

[3]

Hopkirk

:

Lady Lambdadelta

, PookyTheMagicalBear,

Isis

[2]

Shellyc

:

VaultDweller

,

Bell

[2]

Bell

:

Lapsa

,

Shellyc

[2]

Tayl0r Swift

:

Tayl0r Swift

,

Theta Alpine

[1]

Adorable

:

Noraa

[5] Not Voting:

Gloria Cleary

,

MUSHSHAGANA

,

Fidget

,

Zdenek

,

Flea The Magician

Votecount 1.6

[5] Noraa:

UNOwen

,

Hopkirk

,

Adorable

,

Toogeloo

, MURDERCAT

[3]

Hopkirk

:

Lady Lambdadelta

, PookyTheMagicalBear,

Vaxkiller

[2]

Shellyc

:

VaultDweller

,

Bell

[2]

Bell

:

Lapsa

,

Shellyc

[1]

Tayl0r Swift

:

Theta Alpine

[1]

Adorable

:

Noraa

[1] PookyTheMagicalBear

Tayl0r Swift

[5] Not Voting:

Gloria Cleary

,

MUSHSHAGANA

,

Fidget

,

Zdenek

,

Flea The Magician

Votecount 1.7

[5] Noraa:

UNOwen

,

Hopkirk

,

Adorable

,

Toogeloo

, MURDERCAT

[3]

Adorable

:

Noraa,

Theta Alpine

,

Vaxkiller

[2]

Hopkirk

:

Lady Lambdadelta

, PookyTheMagicalBear

[2]

Shellyc

:

VaultDweller

,

Bell

[2]

Bell

:

Lapsa

,

Shellyc

[1] PookyTheMagicalBear

Tayl0r Swift

[5] Not Voting:

Gloria Cleary

,

MUSHSHAGANA

,

Fidget

,

Zdenek

,

Flea The Magician

Votecount 1.8

[7] Noraa:

UNOwen

,

Hopkirk

,

Adorable

,

Toogeloo

, MURDERCAT,

Lapsa

,

Titus

[3]

Adorable

:

Noraa,

Theta Alpine

,

Vaxkiller

[1]

Hopkirk

:

Lady Lambdadelta

[1]

Shellyc

:

Bell

[1]

Bell

:

Shellyc

[1] PookyTheMagicalBear

Tayl0r Swift

[1]

Tayl0r Swift

PookyTheMagicalBear

[5] Not Voting:

Gloria Cleary

,

MUSHSHAGANA

,

Fidget

,

Zdenek

,

Flea The Magician

Votecount 1.9

[7] Noraa:

UNOwen

,

Hopkirk

,

Adorable

,

Toogeloo

, MURDERCAT,

Lapsa

,

Titus

[4]

Adorable

:

Noraa,

Theta Alpine

,

Vaxkiller

,

Fidget

[1]

Hopkirk

:

Lady Lambdadelta

[1]

Shellyc

:

Bell

[1]

Bell

:

Shellyc

[1] PookyTheMagicalBear

Tayl0r Swift

[1]

Tayl0r Swift

PookyTheMagicalBear

[4] Not Voting:

Gloria Cleary

,

MUSHSHAGANA

,

Zdenek

,

Flea The Magician

Votecount 1.10

[6] Noraa:

UNOwen

,

Hopkirk

,

Adorable

,

Toogeloo

, MURDERCAT,

Lapsa

[4]

Adorable

:

Noraa,

Theta Alpine

,

Vaxkiller

,

Fidget

[2] PookyTheMagicalBear

Tayl0r Swift

,

Titus

[1]

Hopkirk

:

Lady Lambdadelta

[1]

Shellyc

:

Bell

[1]

Bell

:

Shellyc

[1]

Tayl0r Swift

PookyTheMagicalBear

[4] Not Voting:

Gloria Cleary

,

MUSHSHAGANA

,

Zdenek

,

Flea The Magician

Votecount 1.11

[5] Noraa:

UNOwen

,

Hopkirk

,

Adorable

,

Toogeloo

, MURDERCAT,

[3]

Adorable

:

Noraa,

Theta Alpine

,

Vaxkiller

[2] PookyTheMagicalBear

Tayl0r Swift

,

Titus

[2]

Shellyc

:

Bell

,

Fidget

[1]

Hopkirk

:

Lady Lambdadelta

[1]

Bell

:

Shellyc

[1]

Tayl0r Swift

:

PookyTheMagicalBear

[1]

Lapsa

:

Lapsa

[4] Not Voting:

Gloria Cleary

,

MUSHSHAGANA

,

Zdenek

,

Flea The Magician

Votecount 1.12

[5] Noraa:

UNOwen

,

Hopkirk

,

Adorable

, MURDERCAT,

Toogeloo

[2]

Adorable

:

Theta Alpine

,

Vaxkiller

[2] PookyTheMagicalBear

Tayl0r Swift

,

Titus

[2]

Shellyc

:

Bell

,

Fidget

[1]

Hopkirk

:

Lady Lambdadelta

[1]

Bell

:

Shellyc

[1]

Tayl0r Swift

:

PookyTheMagicalBear

[1]

Lapsa

:

Lapsa

[5] Not Voting:

Gloria Cleary

,

MUSHSHAGANA

,

Zdenek

,

Flea The Magician

, Noraa

Votecount 1.13

[5] Noraa:

UNOwen

,

Hopkirk

,

Adorable

, MURDERCAT,

Toogeloo

[3] PookyTheMagicalBear

Tayl0r Swift

,

Titus

,

Gloria Cleary

[2]

Adorable

:

Theta Alpine

,

Vaxkiller

[2]

Shellyc

:

Bell

,

Fidget

[1]

Hopkirk

:

Lady Lambdadelta

[1]

Bell

:

Shellyc

[1]

Tayl0r Swift

:

PookyTheMagicalBear

[1]

Lapsa

:

Lapsa

[5] Not Voting:

MUSHSHAGANA

,

Zdenek

,

Flea The Magician

, Noraa

Votecount 1.14

[5] Noraa:

UNOwen

,

Hopkirk

,

Adorable

, MURDERCAT,

Toogeloo

[3] PookyTheMagicalBear

Tayl0r Swift

,

Titus

,

Gloria Cleary

[2]

Adorable

:

Theta Alpine

,

Vaxkiller

[2]

Shellyc

:

Bell

,

Fidget

[1]

Hopkirk

:

Lady Lambdadelta

[1]

Bell

:

Shellyc

[1]

Tayl0r Swift

:

PookyTheMagicalBear

[1]

Lapsa

:

Lapsa

[4] Not Voting:

MUSHSHAGANA

,

Zdenek

,

Flea The Magician

, Noraa

Votecount 1.15

[4] Noraa:

UNOwen

,

Hopkirk

,

Adorable

,

Toogeloo

[4] PookyTheMagicalBear

Tayl0r Swift

,

Titus

,

Gloria Cleary

, MURDERCAT

[2]

Adorable

:

Theta Alpine

,

Vaxkiller

[2]

Shellyc

:

Bell

,

Fidget

[1]

Hopkirk

:

Lady Lambdadelta

[1]

Bell

:

Shellyc

[1]

Tayl0r Swift

:

PookyTheMagicalBear

[1]

Lapsa

:

Lapsa

[4] Not Voting:

MUSHSHAGANA

,

Zdenek

,

Flea The Magician

, Noraa

Votecount 1.16

[6]

Toogeloo

:

Hopkirk

,

Shellyc

, MURDERCAT,

Titus

,

Toogeloo

,

Theta Alpine

[2]

Bell

:

Tayl0r Swift

,

Vaxkiller

[2] Noraa:

UNOwen

,

Adorable

[2]

Tayl0r Swift

:

PookyTheMagicalBear,

Bell

[2]

Shellyc

:

Fidget

,

Flea The Magician

[1] PookyTheMagicalBear

Gloria Cleary

[1]

Adorable

:

Lapsa

[1]

Hopkirk

:

Lady Lambdadelta

[3] Not Voting:

MUSHSHAGANA

,

Zdenek

, Noraa

Votecount 1.17

[6]

Toogeloo

:

Hopkirk

,

Shellyc

, MURDERCAT,

Titus

,

Toogeloo

,

Theta Alpine

[2]

Bell

:

Tayl0r Swift

,

Vaxkiller

[2] Noraa:

UNOwen

,

Adorable

[2]

Tayl0r Swift

:

PookyTheMagicalBear,

Bell

[2]

Shellyc

:

Fidget

,

Flea The Magician

[1] PookyTheMagicalBear

Gloria Cleary

[1]

Adorable

:

Lapsa

[1]

Hopkirk

:

Lady Lambdadelta

[3] Not Voting:

MUSHSHAGANA

,

Zdenek

, Noraa

Votecount 1.18

[9]

Toogeloo

:

Hopkirk

,

Shellyc

, MURDERCAT,

Titus

,

Toogeloo

,

Theta Alpine

,

MUSHSHAGANA

,

Lady Lambdadelta

, Noraa

[2]

Bell

:

Tayl0r Swift

,

Vaxkiller

[2]

Tayl0r Swift

:

PookyTheMagicalBear,

Bell

[2]

Shellyc

:

Fidget

,

Flea The Magician

[1] Noraa:

Adorable

[1] PookyTheMagicalBear

Gloria Cleary

[1]

Adorable

:

Lapsa

[1]

Lapsa

:

UNOwen

[1] Not Voting:

Zdenek

Votecount 1.19

[8]

Toogeloo

:

Hopkirk

, MURDERCAT,

Titus

,

Toogeloo

,

Theta Alpine

,

MUSHSHAGANA

,

Lady Lambdadelta

, Noraa

[3]

Tayl0r Swift

:

PookyTheMagicalBear,

Bell

,

Shellyc

[2]

Bell

:

Tayl0r Swift

,

Vaxkiller

[2]

Shellyc

:

Fidget

,

Flea The Magician

[1] Noraa:

Adorable

[1] PookyTheMagicalBear

Gloria Cleary

[1]

Adorable

:

Lapsa

[1]

Lapsa

:

UNOwen

[1] Not Voting:

Zdenek

Votecount 1.20

(FINAL)

[11]

Toogeloo

:

Hopkirk

, MURDERCAT,

Titus

,

Toogeloo

,

Theta Alpine

,

MUSHSHAGANA

,

Lady Lambdadelta

, Noraa,

UNOwen

,

Shellyc

,

Bell

HAMMER

[2]

Tayl0r Swift

:

PookyTheMagicalBear,

Bell

[2]

Bell

:

Tayl0r Swift

,

Vaxkiller

[2]

Shellyc

:

Fidget

,

Flea The Magician

[1] Noraa:

Adorable

[1] PookyTheMagicalBear

Gloria Cleary

[1]

Adorable

:

Lapsa

[1] Not Voting:

Zdenek

Spoiler: D2

Votecount 2.1

[5]

Fredrick A Campbell

:

Bell,

MUSHSHAGANA

, PookyTheMagicalBear,

Shellyc

,

Flea The Magician

[2] Noraa:

Titus

,

Fredrick A Campbell

[1]

UNOwen

:

Tayl0r Swift

[1]

Adorable

:

Theta Alpine

[1]

Flea The Magician

:

Noraa

[7] Not Voting:

Gloria Cleary

, MURDERCAT,

UNOwen

,

Adorable

,

Lady Lambdadelta

,

Lapsa

,

Fidget

Votecount 2.2

[6]

Fredrick A Campbell

:

Bell,

MUSHSHAGANA

,

Flea The Magician

, PookyTheMagicalBear,

Shellyc

,

Gloria Cleary

[2] Noraa:

Titus

,

Adorable

[1]

Fidget

:

Tayl0r Swift

[1]

Adorable

:

Theta Alpine

[1]

Shellyc

:

Fidget

[1]

Tayl0r Swift

:

Fredrick A Campbell

,

[1] PookyTheMagicalBear:

Noraa

[4] Not Voting:

MURDERCAT,

UNOwen

,

Lady Lambdadelta

,

Lapsa

Votecount 2.3

[6]

Fredrick A Campbell

:

Bell,

MUSHSHAGANA

,

Flea The Magician

, PookyTheMagicalBear,

Shellyc

,

UNOwen

[2] Noraa:

Titus

,

Adorable

[1]

Fidget

:

Tayl0r Swift

[1]

Adorable

:

Theta Alpine

[1]

Shellyc

:

Fidget

[1]

Tayl0r Swift

:

Fredrick A Campbell

[1] PookyTheMagicalBear:

Noraa

[4] Not Voting:

MURDERCAT,

Lady Lambdadelta

,

Lapsa

,

Gloria Cleary

Votecount 2.4

[5]

Fredrick A Campbell

:

Bell,

MUSHSHAGANA

,

Flea The Magician

, PookyTheMagicalBear,

UNOwen

[2] Noraa:

Titus

,

Adorable

[2]

Tayl0r Swift

:

Fredrick A Campbell

,

Shellyc

[1]

Fidget

:

Tayl0r Swift

[1]

Adorable

:

Theta Alpine

[1]

Shellyc

:

Fidget

[1] PookyTheMagicalBear:

Noraa

[4] Not Voting:

MURDERCAT,

Lady Lambdadelta

,

Lapsa

,

Gloria Cleary

Votecount 2.5

(FINAL)

[9]

Fredrick A Campbell

:

Bell,

MUSHSHAGANA

,

Flea The Magician

, PookyTheMagicalBear,

UNOwen

, MURDERCAT,

Titus

,

Shellyc

,

Fidget

HAMMER

[1] Noraa:

Adorable

[1]

Tayl0r Swift

:

Fredrick A Campbell

[1]

Fidget

:

Tayl0r Swift

[1]

Adorable

:

Theta Alpine

[1] PookyTheMagicalBear:

Noraa

[3] Not Voting:

Lady Lambdadelta

,

DrippingGoofball

,

Gloria Cleary

Why's Bell green in these?

[Fidget]

Of course, Zdenek, Lapsa, and Vault were all afk! So, maybe that plays into it.

To clarify what I mean by this: Lapsa/Zdenek/Vault barely had dynamic votes + they are different players from Titus/DGB/Fred.. so it's not like they looked away from Noraa then were suddenly interested after the pressure went down. They became new players.

[Fidget]

shellyc
Noraa UNOwen Bell Lapsa Vaxkiller

Bell
Taylor Zdenek Lapsa. Flea VaxKiller

Zdenek
Empty

Titus
Noraa Pooky Adorable Lapsa Theta

MURDERCAT
Pooky Vax Shelly Lapsa Noraa

Noraa
Fidget Shellyc Titus Pooky Lapsa

Lapsa
shellyc UNOwen Hopkirk Titus Zdenek

[Fidget]

Fidget I'm curious what you make of bell's reads possibly being too good? Do you think the shelly read was natural? What about fred? What about that post I mentioned with Shelly missing and taylor convinently on top?

I'd have to reread but I don't exactly.. expect him to do that as scum. He's fence-sitty and boring as scum, usually not really committed. I don't expect him to drive a wagon on his buddy.

[Fidget]

346
to
354

Pooky, Fidget.
Read this.

Yes, that is a very believable SvS interaction knowing shelly.

[Fidget]

I favor picking either Noraa or Murderkitty over Bell at the moment.

Something I wonder about with regards to scum!Noraa, why have her early reads be as accurate as they were? You are right that she did not do anything to actively get Fred or shelly killed, though. She hopped on Fred late and I cannot remember her assisting me with shelly. I remember Flea and Bell doing that.

Did she think she would die, so it was for anti-associatives?

Taylor - town for realizing that this isn't AI due to previous experience playing with me
Murder - null bc he didn't realize it wasn't AI even tho he has played with me before but the paranoia towards shelly is very town bc when playing with shelly, it is nerve-racking trying to determine if you're being absolutely fooled or if you are judging too much and she's actually town. I feel this paranoia all the way after one scum game with her where she told me about all her evil plans in the scum pt and after one town game where I was fooled by her big time. Something that town pings + something that scum pings cancel out and so I am null but prolly town lean still.
Pooky - town because I believe he believes in his SR on me and scum wouldn't bc scum knows who their scum buddies are.
Lexi - null. I still dislike the discord argument. Lexi's been more eager to push me than Pooky has which tbh is a bit strange considering normally the one that starts it is the biggest on pushing it :/
Isis - town because the tone is towny and I relate to some of those posts in that I would say something similar in her position
Bell - townie confusion. could be faked but I'm willing to believe it is real for now
Shelly - scum for misrepping people and also for throwing shade at pooky yet never voting pooky.
Vaultdweller - scum. can't quite put my finger on what's wrong here but I'm def getting scum pings.
Hopkirk - null but lean scum. dislike the jumping on all biggest wagons for no reason.

lol

this is clear scumpost
noraas trying to do 'solving', this is on the verges of TMI on some of the TRs
while town are getting a feel for the game you're fakesolving

Noraa was at 9 votes when shelly started going off on this "Noraa is confscum" tangent. Does she do it if Noraa is going to flip green? Maybe not.

[Fidget]

Am I moron for reversing on Noraa a second time, and am currently being deceived by either Murder or Bell ? There's at least a coin flips' chance the dead thread is going to crucify me for this. Oh well.

[Fidget]

No you did well fidget we can win this still

I mindmelded with you so much in this latter half. I am going to be heartbroken if you betray me.

[Fidget]

>8 town voting Noraa, absolutely no counterwagons
>Shelly: "Noraa is confirmed scum, oh my god, it's so obvious"
>Noraa: "Tons of scum on my wagon. Shelly is one."
>Shelly: "Look at all this scum bussing Noraa right now."

I can believe it, this is a plan shelly would do. Try to make herself look as good as possible and get the next targets ready. Noraa becoming #1 townie was never supposed to happen.

lld i dont like how youre trying to paint me as scum here. if im scum, regardless of noraa's alignment, its an awful play for me to be so blatant in defending her. i get wayyy more scrutiny than WK points, and if she flips scum i probably die too.

this is right
bell is scum for basically refusing to read noraa
noraa is scum for outlined reasons
LLD is town because lld/noraa is not s/s
taylor is town because of this post

why is murder town btw, entrance doesn't really ping either way

Ah yes, I knew that my vote against Noraa would lead to good things.
The wagon looks promising, Noraa's reaction to the pressure has indeed been flaily.
Adorable's vote was not great.

Think this is quite LAMIST
Hey I’m voting with you all! I’m town for this!

Adorable shade not explained which is weird

Setting up UNOwen and Bell as Noraa partners..

Regarding Noraa my heart just dropped.

while not voting noraa

which is a very scummy move to look good for the cameras while trying to slow the wagon

No. You're saying he's throwing suspicion on Noraa in order to look good, but he's not committing the vote because he's holding out for the wagon not going through. Is that what you're saying?

YES

im currently laser focused on bell because noraa is going to be today and i do SR there but I feel like that slot has been touched on too many times and is rather obvious scum

re: Bell defense of noraa. if bell just bussed there noraa would probably be dead already
discrediting without pushing and the effort to make reads is a reeeeeallllllllly good way to stop the push while still not going against the town leader
taylor just straight-out WKed there and bell discredited the push/agreed with taylor but still townread LLD

I'll just as soon burn you to the ground for doing this as I will let that happen.

yes noraa dies today im like, not opposed to that at all but i feel we're wasting too much energy on outed scum

Why is she doing this? Shelly must know Noraa is about to die, everyone in the game thought Noraa was dead. Why is shelly spending all her time pointing out "bussers"? Why is shelly bothering to point out all the scummy stuff she sees in Noraa if she already thinks Noraa is good as dead? If Noraa is town, why does shelly do this? I must know.

I kinda want to check the exact moment in the game shelly gave her first suspicion of Noraa, as well as the moment she decided Noraa was lockscum.

Pedit: Oh. I'll just.. hush.

[Fidget]

Don't give it to Bell though for real

[Fidget]

Fidgy I would always read everything you type <3 you are my scroll partner

WE WILL DO THIS TOGETHER

Oh, alright then! I would get drunk with you at deadline for maximum effect, but underage.

I’m not sure if we should just dogpile on Noraa now or just have a gentle beings agreement to give them the scroll later. Though I think the latter could be a problem in getting situated with good reads and atmosphere.

no this is fence-sitting

I love the bell-noraa push

VOTE: noraa

I know scum!noraa, this is exactly like them. self awareness, overdefensiveness instead of reads, cautiousness instead of stubborness

This is Shelly's first post about Noraa. Noraa already had 8 votes and was currently being overwhelmingly favored by the entire thread. So all that "Noraa conf!scum" stuff Bell and I quoted were, hilariously enough, her first interactions with Noraa. I am reminded of why I scumread shelly so much.

Is that exactly what shelly would do if Noraa is scum and none of her partners are currently voting Noraa? Yes. Would shelly do it if Noraa is town too? Maybe.

Is this the kind of thing that gets a scum player propelled insanely late into a game? Being intended as a bus target but actually ending up UNO-reverse-carding their entire fucking team? But none of them actually voted Noraa, they took a hands-off approach with the exception of shelly who

conveniently enough

started setting up the people voting Noraa as Noraa's partners while

for whatever reason

trying to hard distance from Noraa.

[Fidget]

Fidget I'm signing off for the night. Assess me honestly, if you think I'm scum so be it. But keep looking at Noraa too. Look at what her real paranoia towards me looks like on D1 of 2170. She is somehow not pushing me at all, it's all about Bell. She setup the paranoia towards bell and me and then went whichever way you felt Pooky. Notice she's not panicking that you are suddenly aren't doing what you said you would do when you targeted bell? Cool as a cucumber. Does that sound like town Noraa to you?

Oh shit. I can't think of a single post Noraa has made that suggests she is concerned about which one of you is picked.

Okay, I actually checked - yes, she thinks you both have equal odds but has mostly been pointing out stuff related to Bell. But she says Murder is scummy a lot too.

She was more murdercat-leaning before. I don't know what to think. She shifted out of nowhere and it makes me concerned she's not following her own reads. I really haven't considered Bell much at all, I thought about it when Pooky made the show of swapping, sure, but I really wasn't into it.

I agree it looks bad, but I hadn't realized it just now when you pointed it out. Urgh.

You two are in full blown panic mode. Noraa seems upset she's being considered, which makes me feel bad if I'm wrong, but she has no strong opinion on who it is and doesn't seem as concerned with solving it as I would expect. But maybe I'm being unfair, we weren't in this day for very long. But then again! She never wanted Pooky. Pooky was in her top 3. Why does she not have a definite other person for that top 3?

If Pooky was in her top three, and I think I have this correct, right? Pooky was Noraa's third. I'll have to check. But where I'm going with this:

Noraa
?
Pooky
?

Why isn't there a clear winner between you two? I think it was like this:

Noraa
Bell

Pooky

Murdercat

So with Pooky struck out, how the hell does she start the day flipping on Bell like it's no big deal?

[Fidget]

I will never forgive myself if Murder is scum. Is that something to be taken into consideration, though? I kinda went off earlier saying that you should follow who you think it is, and the dead shouldn't get really mad at you for it.

But, boy, would they be mad. I'm starting to regret getting the privilege to be here.

But my heart wants me to go this way though :C

A serious review of Murderkitty is in order. Later. So I can make a more informed choice.

[Fidget]

Yay, narrowed it down to 2 players.

Happy birthday Noraa.

Bell I think you are really trying to figure out what's going on. I'll save you the effort. I'm town. It really is Noraa

This post is bad. I dislikes.

Why?

346
to
354

Pooky, Fidget.
Read this.

I can't connect the dots. These two posts don't really fit together....

It's some of the stronger evidence you're scum. Not the two specifically, but the entire span of posts. The entire way that shelly A.) tries to take some credit for "solving" you and B.) treats you as flipped scum and starts setting up people as your partners from you at a time when your flip seemed inevitable.

[Fidget]

If Pooky was in her top three, and I think I have this correct, right?

I wanted top two to be {pooky/Gloria, Bell}
Now looking back, we could've just made it {Pooky, Gloria} and we would've won the game.

Everyone(murder and Bell) kept sussing my top two(my real top two was {gloria, spooky}) which is why I ended up putting bell in my top two. Murder always insisted I had to agree to {Noraa, Bell} and so I did. Thinking back, perhaps this was set up from the start and I never realized it.

I remember murder suggesting we kill off all the inner town block that way it leads to an easy town victory. At the time, I thought it a really smart idea. Now, I feel like there's lots wrong with that plan.

I don't understand how Bell and Murdercat are comparable in your reads. You seemed perfectly fine with Pooky shooting Bell off the bat today.

[Fidget]

I'm just poeing at this point btw.
I have no further strong scum reads.

As long as we don't eliminate Noraa, me, or Murdercat game's over.

This looks really bad rn. Like really bad. I just got full body chills reading this post.

Why?

[Fidget]

Why?

1) there is scum in that pool
2) everyone thinks I'm it but I'm town

I fail to see how that looks bad for Bell specifically when every player wanted Bell/Noraa to be the finale.

[Fidget]

No we have 3 shots, I want to see fidget and Gloria go today probably. Then tomorrow we have to actually think but I agree with Bell

how'd u know there would be a tomorrow in the first place?

This kind of thing is never going to do it for me.

I would find it immensely helpful if you could show why Murdercat is scum based off his early game play, or possibly from how flipped scum interacted with him. Those are the strongest things I am using currently that make me lean on you being scum. But Murdercat is the player I haven't reviewed in the longest amount of time. I do feel like he has bled town in the end game portion of this game, albeit weaker than Bell.

[Fidget]

I think what this game is at this stage is just take a shot in {Murder, Bell, Noraa} and hope you don't miss.

That is literally the game.

Except I don't think Bell should be considered.

[Fidget]

f you could show why Murdercat is scum

After much thought, I still lean Bell!scum.

Okay, scratch that.

In that case, I would like you to demonstrate the lengthy thought process that led you to the conclusion of Bell!scum, if possible.

[Fidget]

I have no clue what is going through Noraa's head at any given time. You're sussing both of the other players indiscriminately. You've swapped your primary suspicion around. The only time you seem concerned at all is when we're considering you.

I feel like I'm under a lot of pressure and what that means is that I'm gonna start flailing when I can't take it anymore. I don't want to do that because then it'll secure a pass to me and it'll be my fault for this town loss.

No, it'll be my fault mostly if you're town.

[Fidget]

he pass to LLD never makes sense unless I am town.

I'd love to see you shot if for no other reason than it helps me want to fucking play.

But unlike you, I actually shoot in order of how I suspect people, and Hopkirk is worse than you.

I don't think LLD was ever going to shoot you because of her wantingness to seem... superior.

But it was a risk, so maybe you're right. Was there enough gain for it..? She very well could have shot you because she didn't really talk about her reads in between D1 and when she got scrolled, it was an unknown factor.

There is the issue that the other obvtown at the time would have shot shelly for sure (Murdercat, Bell and Mushy at least). Don't remember who Pooky would've shot.

Pedit: orly

[Fidget]

he pass to LLD never makes sense unless I am town.

I explained why that's not true though

Where is this pls I cannot find

At this point there is no fault, if we lose it's because scum played well. If Bell is scum I tip my cap. I don't want to lose to Noraa scum after everything that happened on D1 and what I feel is a decently strong read in that direction, all things considered.

Maybe, but most of the dead save for UNOwen had something they wanted to do and if you're scum I actively worked to change that

I am very impressed with Bell if he's scum, but I don't think it'll happen. This game feels nothing like Bell!scum. Where'd he learn to chop down his partners and look so good in the process? And he sounds good, Bell!scum just doesn't

sound

like Bell!town. This sounds so fucking dumb to try and explain, and I will accept being clowned on later if Bell is scum.

[Fidget]

LLD is still a very strong town player, you have to take her out eventually. At the moment she was inactive and wasn't currently pushing anyone. If scum thought she was going to come back and hard push town Noraa again, they would have left her alive. I think they were afraid she was going to come back and hard push Noraa. I think they were afraid that she would go on to find more scum.

Consider for a moment that Noraa is scum. What would you have done? When else would you have taken LLD out? Scum clearly planned to keep the dayvig til Elo numbers, shelly said as much.

So in other words, the LLD pass isn't just compatible with Noraa!scum, but Noraa!scum actually

caused

the pass. They passed it to Noraa

because

they thought LLD would come back and push Noraa. An entirely different way of looking at it.

Hm. Why not just have Noraa give it to LLD down the line when LLD does get Noraa killed though, if it does happen? It's very preemptive for something that wasn't certain. Although perhaps it was a certainty in their minds.

[Fidget]

My gut said Bell was town too, so they can clown on me alongside you

Oh yeah, I guess we get to take the punishment together in that case. Makes me feel a little better.

[Fidget]

My thought is, she is heavily TR'd by everyone and is still strong so she would probably eventually catch more scum. Titus in particular would probably be worried about being found out by her.

I'm not necessarily saying it is locked and this makes way more sense, but I'm saying there is a way it makes sense with Noraa scum and we should reconsider what is left of Noraa town evidence without this piece of it.

I see. I also do think that most of the other townblock members were inferior choices by virtue of them almost surely passing to shelly, so there's that.

but no, LLD had never dropped her SR on me. Each time she came back, she called me scum. At the time I was starting to become a consensus TR I'm pretty sure. LLD pass never happens there if I'm scum because scum would do it at the risk of losing their most TRed member, noraabear.

It seemed like LLD had a decent chance of shooting Noraa. It was by no means certain, and amazingly enough as LLD went down she did not even have Noraa in her top 5. But they did risk it, yes.

But if shelly was at greater risk of dying to the rest of the townbloc.. was it necessary? Or was Noraa actually more valuable than shelly at that point, so it would have made more sense to sac shelly anyway?

Will take some reviewing, I guess. I don't know what the answer is to the LLD pass.

[Fidget]

- Bell would have shot shelly.
- Mush would have shot shelly.
- Lady had no comments on who she thought was scum after Hopkirk on D1. However, her last post involving another player was her saying she didn't care about Noraa's opinions or something.
- Pooky would have shot Taylor most likely, possibly Murderkitty.
- Murder was considering shelly/Pooky/LLD, interestingly enough.
- It's a tad unclear who Noraa wanted, it looks like shelly though.

That's probably all of your candidates.

[Fidget]

Spoiler: Noraa defending Fred

Btw for the case on Fred, I will just be copy pasting Murder's reasons for you. lmao no. But like I do agree the reasoning behind launching Fred are weak asf. Dude's scummy but I mean he's said like ten things at this point. A bit too hasty to judge aren't we? This is honestly exactly how my wagon blew up and having a Noraa#2 isnt gonna help jackshit.

Noraa.
Get on the wagon.

why tho? I mean Murder ..... didnt have the hottest solve yesterday but I mean so? I believe he brought up a valid point. The SRs from Fred on me are hot garbage. I agree with that. They seem opportunistic. I agree with that as well. Nothing else he has said has made him look anything but bad. I agree. He bad. He scummy. So?

From what I could tell in his other games, he's a juicy LHF and everyone jumped on him too fast. Legit I saw that wagon building up and I was like "Oh god Noraa#2 is charging in"

Very interesting that there is exactly, I repeat EXACTLY five SRs. This may be a bad way to judge but generally I find that only careful scum will have exactly the number of scum SRs.
I'm not stupid and I've been quite present in the thread. I know very well that pooky is kinda playful here. It's different tho and if you would care to meta dive, you would understand why. Plus if you read my entire paragraph and not just the first sentence, it shows u why exactly but no, Flea is just gonna come charging after me after reading one sentence of my reassessment read. Great. Lovely.
If we are killing a lurker slot first, Flea is the top candidate imo.

noraa the scumhunting god finding scum by their number of SRs! wow

noraa why do you seem to constantly make something and stir up SRs from something that isn't NAI
(I actually told her to do this in my last scumgame with scum!her, can quote from scum pt if needed)

Hey hey don't twist my words. If you would care to read the whole paragraph, I can engage you. Plus that TR you gave me a while ago sure disappeared fast eh?

Presently, as I read Noraa's answer to my first question, I find myself having a problem with the answer. Noraa claims that Tayl0r Swift used the same thing on her twice in a row, stating "Ok and do you think a scum would use the same thing on me two times in a row? yes I'm stupid but I'm not that stupid. Firstly, I would like to know if you, Noraa, think that scum would use the same thing on you two times in a row. Then, I have some follow up questions that I will present once you have answered that question.

I believe that answers the first two of your questions, but for the third, that will need to wait, because I never arrived at the destination and revealing the destination before we arrive there would make the questions completely pointless and reduce my avenues of inquiry.

ok but why tf is this question important? Plus im pretty sure u cut my post up cuz what u say here just makes me look like I dont know what im doing and im fairly certain I didnt say exactly *that* in response to whatever u asked me.

fred you're online come here

i consider this to be ellitelling btw

You know, with 17 players left in this game, I really would appreciate it if everyone only post if they have something meaningful to say. Below is an example of completely inessential conversation that could have been done using the site chat. Please use the site chat for conversations like this. You won't get banned. It's not game related.

Fredrick: complains about no game advancing content
Fredrick again: Doesn't give game advancing content at all

lol
fred order these names from town->scum NOW
fidget
taylor
theta
bell
gloria

This is just how I'd expect shelly to talk to a scum partner who's under even moderate fire lol. Not totally convinced yet but this does pique my interest.

Interesting observation. Shelly actually, if I remember correctly, said something similar to UNO and maybe someone else. If this theory is correct, fidget might've literally just solved the whole game.

Also, fidget is doing a lot of solving and less pre-flip stuff. Maybe its time to make this slot a town lean.

Also, I forgot to unvote pooky. UNVOTE:

Also, one last thing, I dont think we should rush this wagon. We have far too many people coasting rn. To the point that im almost just thinking that all the coasters are the scum team. Fred literally jumped out(into the thread) and bought himself a pass to hell(by being a total scum bucket). That's pretty bad play and honestly, if he was a scum that repped in, I really strongly believe his scum buddies would literally just tell him to coast some more cuz that's literally the best way to keep everyone from suspecting you. Idk im just having bad feelings about this + it reminds me of how my own wagon built up super fast and I got really mad and idk I just am not vibing here.

Spoiler: Murderkitty defending Fred

I think there is a good shot fredrick is town and we are being snowed by strong scum players

yea lets just kill fred whatever

VOTE: Fred

VOTE: Fredrick

round 2

VOTE: Fred

but Fidget next please.

MUSH does this not worry you? I agree this wagon is town led but I think there were some weak hop ons

I don't feel comfortable voting there with Pooky tbh.

I'm not convinced he is scum, obviously if I were I'd be voting there.

You are referring to 4219?

I just don't think any of that is clearly scummy? I mean yeah he could be scum but I just don't see where the confidence comes from.

I think Fred could be scum sure, but I'm not currently convinced by it and I really want to go S>T>S today. But if no one can see LLD or Pooky as options then I guess we will flip there? If we go town Fred to town Noraa it'll really suck though.

(+ All of the pushing on LLD/Pooky which I won't bother quoting)

Spoiler: Bell defending Fred

jk

[Fidget]

Going along the argument I had in favor of shooting Pooky, Noraa doesn't

really

have anything that she herself did that implies she isn't scum with the deceased. It's always all about what they did. And if there is, it needs to be brought to my attention.

But we all know how well that went when I used that line of thinking last time so.

Noraa

Fidget
Shellyc
Titus
Pooky
Lapsa

Actually, she did tend to be fairly accurate. She was never a force behind getting these people killed, but she did tend to be right. Does Noraa do this as scum?

[Fidget]

f you could show why Murdercat is scum

After much thought, I still lean Bell!scum.

Okay, scratch that.

In that case, I would like you to demonstrate the lengthy thought process that led you to the conclusion of Bell!scum, if possible.

This is what I need the most at the moment. Let me inside of your mind because I do not understand where you are at, whereas I can understand Murdercat's situation very easily.

You do not seem particularly concerned with which one of those two dies, and if you are, I can't tell why you pick one over the other at a given point in time.

[Fidget]

This is why we should have just shot Noraa first on D1.

yeah we should've cuz rn I'm just getting manipulating by whichever of u is scum.

You're being manipulated?

[Fidget]

I agree on due diligence with Fidget. I need to look at MC and not make mistake of just focusing on posts that feel like open wolfing from Noraa.

Murdercat is murdering her towniness-wise in this phase, but I do not want to make the mistake of missing stuff that really did mean Noraa can't be scum that I'm just forgetting.

It

is

odd scum would leave Noraa open to being sacrificed over shelly. While it was not guaranteed LLD shoots Noraa at all, they risked it and I'm not sure there was a good reason to do that over... well, they would have gotten shelly killed with every other option besides Pooky. So maybe LLD was the only viable pick. Maybe they weren't thinking about it too much beyond "LLD is towniest player". I'm not sure.

[Fidget]

asdfghj

This might explain why Titus threw the sroll at Taylor.

Why's that?

I'm still waiting for Fidget to bless my scrolling of Murdercat

am i getting peer pressured into scrolling birthday girl? really?

Ooh yikes

I hope you're right then

[Fidget]

I have emotional town tells as well, but I haven't pointed to any of them because like I said it's all junk

You are a lot more guarded with your emotions than Noraa.

I have 1000 fair unrestrained emotional posts from noraa and they all scream town town town.

you are more careful/guarded

I feel like Noraa has done nothing to help me think Murder/Bell are scum, done barely anything to show me her thought process when she flip flopped between them today, and I still don't understand where she is at. The only good thing going for her is emotional tells at this point.

Murdercat is actually trying to win and actually comes off as townier by far in comparison. Maybe that's telling in itself..? I don't know. I agree with Bell that scum more or less didn't interact with Murdercat.

At this current moment in time I would never bless Murdercat's death but I might get there nearing deadline, ESPECIALLY if I get the posts I requested of Noraa (She might have already given them, I haven't fully reread yet).

[Fidget]

I do think Fidget is right that I don't think the scum team expected this scenario to occur.
I don't think they're so far sited that they would lay that much bus ground work for Noraa and then...Just have her flip town. It would be crazy amounts of reverse psychology.

Lmao imagine

[Fidget]

The reaction to the Fidget wagon was a huge scum tell. Based off that alone, I'm willing to lock scum Murder asap.

Christ finally.

What I would like to understand is why you had no tangible difference between your Murder and Bell reads up until now, and why you were generally fine with Bell being scrolled.

[Fidget]

I think Murder is trying to pull of a stubborn lylo townie look and furiously looking thru his pt for arguments shelly prolly already drafted out.

It really doesn't come off like that to me. Could you show me why it does?

If Murdercat is scum I'm sure he's working alone here.

If Murder is scum, scums distanced well from him. Barely any interaction and they planned to have Murder carry the entire team since a long time ago.

Btw I still stand by this post

What's your take on Murderkitty defending Fred?

[Fidget]

This was a point I brought up a while ago. It was so that she could be like "Oh oops Noraa isnt scum? Lemme just take like 3 game days to fix my reads up a bit"

Maybe, but at least would you agree shelly would be much more likely to do that in an attempt to prop herself up and set up miselims? That's pretty much what I'd expect her to do. You were dead for certain at that point, she didn't really need to help the wagon. So what's her motivation? My guess would be to set up the next elim targets.

[Fidget]

Noraa is not really helping to convince me that it's Murder, but it might be Murder anyway. It's also possible Noraa just .. looks terrible in Eylo, I guess. Ignoring the rest of the game, I would struck Noraa down for this performance in a heartbeat. But the rest of the game still exists.

what do you think about what Noraa said about MC's TMI slip?

The Murdercat reaction to a Fidget green flip was really bad.
"Yeah but I think we lost" might just be scum tmi that pooky is town :/

continue the reading~

I don't understand it. It's something I could see myself saying. What is TMI about saying "We actually lost"?

[Fidget]

It's TMI because he knows I'm town

Yeah that doesn't really do it for me I guess. Town!Murder's chances of winning the game dropped to 1/3 after I flipped green, so I would be feeling pretty defeated.

Perhaps town!Murder feels more confident you are scum, I suppose? But if he isn't then the game is more likely lost than won.

[Fidget]

I am ok with any order FWIW. I agree the game is about to end, which is why I'm half pushing you to just end it :)

He thought it was UNOwen.. then he was sure it's me.. then it came down to whether Pooky is scum or not.

Also, to be fair, town!Murder

did

lose the game after I flipped green.

But sure I'm probably just reading this terribly.

It is true that Murder doesn't have a ton going for him early-mid game.

[Fidget]

If he felt there was a sizable chance Bell was scum at that point, then yeah, he probably did lose and knew it. Scum TMI maybe. Maybe I just don't believe in that stuff so I'm overlooking it.

Maybe it's not worth the risk shooting Noraa.

[Fidget]

when I read scum associatives, I always pick the weakest scum player to read because weak players are easier to figure out and they dont understand how to manage associatives. Shelly/Titus/DGB are all experienced enough to manage their associatives and lay down wifom with their partner. Fred is not - unless you think Fred is actually some deepthought scumlord who decided to purposefully lay down 0 associatives with MC in order to give his scumbuddy something to frame MC with at Lylo?

I don't really think Fred not interacting with Murder is very special, he interacted with hardly anyone.

His interactions with Noraa though are surprising, for sure though. His tunnel on her was kind of ridiculous.

And it is noteworthy that not just Fred ignored Murder, but pretty much the whole team did.

he pulled foward his reaction from me getting scrolled and holding the scroll into you holding the scroll. it's a time-slip.

I guess even if Murder is scum I don't really believe in that stuff. That's the kind of thing I could see myself saying all the time. People accuse me of scumslips all the time, though.

[Fidget]

I also thought and *frankly still kind of think* that how Fred voted Noraa was very close to how I would vote her as scum on town. Which was part of my reason for clearing her.
I'm not sure if that was a moment of cleverness from scum Fred or not though.

Yes, I think Fred's push on Noraa is surprising if they're SvS.

Is there a reason the entire scumteam decides to tunnel Noraa..? Shelly confscums her as she's about to die -> it fails -> entire rest of scumteam now has her as strongest scumread from that point on. Why??

[Fidget]

He also interacted with shelly a fuckton. I think you're saying inexperienced scum!Fred sucks at interacting with partners, which is probably true given the shelly interaction although I blamed shelly more for that.

4096 is a confusing post indeed.

[Fidget]

My problem with this is that it's just not uncommon for scum to ignore one town or another.
I can't interpret it with confidence is what I really mean.

I guess that's more of what I meant, a lack of interacting with someone isn't much to go off of.

Although if you compare it to how he interacted with Noraa, then you're getting somewhere, I guess. It is weird that he would opt to just push her upon starting out.

[Fidget]

We've done shelly and Fred. May as well continue..

Titus is against Noraa wagon in a response to Murdercat laying it out
..but upon reading Pooky's townslip case, is now in favor of killing Noraa. (comes with a vote)
Shifts her focus to Pooky.
Tunneling Pooky..
Clarifies she very much wants Noraa dead.
Noraa is Titus' number one kill choice. Well she says it isn't ranked but Noraa was listed first.
Scratch that, Pooky is her #1.
Wants Noraa dead for VCA purposes.
Chose Noraa first on day two with her vote.
Later, decides Noraa is town for VCA. Says that scum was voting Noraa. Says scum was hard bussing Fred.
String of positive Murdercat interactions.
Grilling Noraa on why she thinks Fidget is town.
Passes to Taylor.

[Fidget]

Ok. It was actually a reaction to realizing we are suddenly in a very bad spot. I'm kind of insulted you think I'm that bad despite the fact that as scum I would have played very well to get here. Can you explain why I am throwing the game pushing Noraa when I could have pushed bell and won?

I don't think you're bad enough to think I actually wanted to scroll Bell.

Noraa jumped down Bell's throat as soon as you did though lol. I also thought you were serious and it made me extremely worried.

[Fidget]

This isn't helping, the answers to Pooky's questions are really obvious for town!Murder and scum!Murder to answer. Why do you think I scrolled you Pooky? I still had to go with the best I had. The same would be true for town!Murder.

Am I becoming scum's lawyer or am I trying to preserve our last chance at saving the game? I dunno. I'll check Lapsa and DGB.

[Fidget]

Lapsa votes Noraa to 6 votes. The first scum to join the wagon, unless Murdercat is scum in which case he is the second.
Lapsa wants shelly, UNOwen, Hopkirk, Titus, and Zdenek dead. All of his partners except this final one. He no longer suspects Noraa.
Seems concerned with MC being mad at him?
-
DGB believes two or three scum should be on the Toog wagon. (Shelly, Titus, and Murder were on it.)
Busses both Titus and Shelly hard.
Titus, Shelly, and Noraa are DGB's top 3 scumreads. Noraa is the strongest.
DGB agrees with Murdercat's plan to kill DGB after a scum!Titus flip.
Titus is pretty clearly DGB's #1 scumread now.
Calls Noraa hard scum. Asks who MC is.
DGB maintains she was never defending Titus, to Noraa who agrees with Gloria that DGB is defending Titus.

[Fidget]

We really are mindmelding fidget

I know, which is why I'll be fuming if you're scum after all.

[Fidget]

Main thing I learned reading Titus and Noraa was that Titus was actually in favor of killing Noraa all of D1 and first part of D2. I forgot about that. I am not sure who Titus would have planned to implicate with VCA after a Noraa flip..

But Titus

was

planning to implicate those who voted Fred after she decided Noraa was town. I think from this she is saying Noraa is a town wagon that scum didn't bother to touch, as evidenced by Zdenek running away from it. That would defend Lapsa and potentially Murdercat who stuck on Noraa.

Initial conclusion: Find scum in those who didn't care what happened yesterday but were overly invested into Fred.

So she wanted probably.. Bell, Mushy, and Flea dead. UNOwen maybe. I don't think Pooky or Murder would count.

This isn't a terribly helpful exercise but mm. So she wanted Noraa dead when Noraa was going to die, but swapped it around and starting crafting a narrative that it was all town on Noraa and those who ignored her were scum. So she's favorable to Noraa, favorable to Laspa, and also favorable to Murderkitty.

[Fidget]

Noraa has had to have 0 input on why I am scum. You are letting her coast Pooky. Please look through her iso for today, does that seem like Noraa who doesn't know who the last scum is and is really trying to figure it out?

Her input on why you are scum has done absolutely nothing for me, in fact it's actively making her look worse every time, but you might be scum outside of that anyway.

Your play itself.. you were against shelly. You wanted to derail Fred. And then, you were fine with knockin down DGB/Titus, but so was everyone.

Noraa was.. against shelly and Fred but in a more passive way. She has good things going for her when it comes to how scum interacted with her. I still find it odd that they give the scroll to LLD and have Fred tunnel her. But neither is a convincing case for her being town because I do agree LLD had to die and the other options were definitely shooting shelly.

Emotionally wise I feel like I've been with you most of the way in this final stretch, although I suppose you yourself admit that you are good at scum. We are mindmelding, but can I trust that? I am very dumb.

Noraa is also good at scum, but I was previously feeling she went out of her emotional range in this game and just wouldn't be able to replicate it as scum.

Urrgh.

[Fidget]

Noraa you are the scummiest player in this Eylo by far and maybe that's my fault for being a terrible reader (and if you are town it definitely is) but I don't feel like I've agreed with you on anything you've had to say about Bell/Murder thus far. And you don't really have a clear direction at all as to which one you think is scum. You finally decided on Murderkitty but only after Pooky stopped considering Bell.

Your best arguments are always when you're talking about yourself or more specifically about how dead scum interacted with you, in which case I agree you have a lot good there. I feel like you're just taking potshots at Murder/Bell otherwise.

[Fidget]

How about you sheep Bell's final conclusion if he isn't dayvigged, but otherwise use your heart instead? Wonder how that pans out.

[Fidget]

I'm gonna do a big post-linking thing for Murdercat's ISO by the end of tonight. I must do a good review of him. Then I decide if I trust him or not, that's what I specifically need to know at this point.

If I cannot be at least 90% certain I can trust him, then I have no business advocating for Noraa's death over him. So if it's close between them, I'll finally lay down and let the game end the way it was going to.

I mean, even if I were to discover something that makes me extremely confident it's Noraa, I'm not sure I'd be right or that it'd matter anyway since it's not my call. But I'll give it one last go I hope. I don't know how much time is left

Timer: (expired on 2020-11-20 21:36:19)

Got it got it

[Fidget]

Pooky - I want to clarify I don't expect you to listen to me beyond maybe as a small, irritating voice that occasionally gives advice.

I'm not still trying because I think my opinion is particularly important, I hope it doesn't come off like that. But I do think it's important I at least have an answer for what I would do.

[Fidget]

I feel out of place. I think I stole Gloria's seat at the final table, to be honest. Weird recurring theme of stealing things this game.

I'm leaning towards scrolling MC but if you or Bell come up with an amazing reason that is conclusive I will change my mind. We are all in this together.

Well maybe not Bell but I know I can trust you <3

I sound like an idiot in that post. I think that's probably your best course of action, yeah.

[Fidget]

Shelly interacted with Noraa like Noraa was scum.
I totally forgot Zdenek maintained that Noraa was scum after unvoting, you raise a good point there. He set up UNOwen as being with Noraa.
Titus just went with consensus both times, called for Noraa's head when we did, but didn't when we stopped.
Lapsa voted Noraa when the wagon was forming, but did not include her in his top 5 at the end of the day (the top 5 that had 3 scum in it! shelly/Titus/Zdenek/shellyc/UNOwen).
DGB hard tunneled Noraa and if Noraa is scum, that means DGB's top 3 scum were all 3 scum (shelly/Titus/Noraa).
Frederick hard tunneled Noraa as virtually his only push besides the one on Adorable.

I think shelly, Lapsa, and Zdenek acted as if they are teamed with Noraa.
Titus and DGB, could go either way.
Fred is the best example of someone who didn't seem like he was teamed with Noraa.

[Fidget]

*Constantly refreshes*
my heart is beating so fast rn. awaiting this post is nervewrecking

like this post

Is Noraa good enough at scum to fake that post? Maybe you're right, and she couldn't have came up with that. Sigh. I don't know.

[Fidget]

*Constantly refreshes*
my heart is beating so fast rn. awaiting this post is nervewrecking

like this post

Is Noraa good enough at scum to fake that post? Maybe you're right, and she couldn't have came up with that. Sigh. I don't know.

Really? I am anxious about the outcome of a flip isnt that hard to fake. Noraa has good fake posts but I don't think this is one of them

Maybe. I am a big sucker for emotion as I've established.

[Fidget]

I think you will be surprised by Noraa's ability to fake emotional tells after this game

nuh uh. the emotions were real as hell. that anger at LLD was real all the way down to my soul. that happiness at being IC was a small plant that sprouted from within my heart. those emotions were realer than anything.

Are you saying you wouldn't have felt those as scum?

[Fidget]

like seriously if you were scum and somebody said you are now conf-town. What's your reaction?

you have a bit of guilt in your heart right? or maybe a little deviousness.

Her post is pure un-adulterated joy like snorting sugar straight from a coke bottle.

It doesn't really make me feel guilty, but that's probably a minor point. I am always angry in response to scumreads and happy in response to townreads. I imagine this game was a massive rollercoaster for Noraa regardless of alignment, especially after all of that LLD stuff. I'd be quite relieved, possibly ecstatic about not having to deal with any of that anymore.

But again, her level of emotion

was really high.

I agree that she obviously had to fake some parts such as the anxiety. I'm not sure if she could do it as scum.

[Fidget]

uhhhhhhh
1) I can't change my birthday?
2) I was sick since like 3 days ago
3) what?

I see what ur saying but seriously wtf.

He's cutting you slack for seeming so scummy.

[Fidget]

I stopped feeling the stress. Maybe it goes away a couple days after death. I feel like I deserve to lose.

The dead townies don't deserve to lose, though. I think we got our great opportunity to win because of the players who identified Fred as scum on the second day and made the case so irrefutable, scum couldn't do anything to stop it. I think they deserve to win for that, it was great.

[Fidget]

I stopped feeling the stress. Maybe it goes away a couple days after death. I feel like I deserve to lose.

The dead townies don't deserve to lose, though. I think we got our great opportunity to win because of the players who identified Fred as scum on the second day and made the case so irrefutable, scum couldn't do anything to stop it. I think they deserve to win for that, it was great.

the scum obv did a great job infiltrating the townblock so deeply.

sometimes I think its always the MOST townie player in the townblock because that's the only way all the scum-sacrifices make any sense.

DGB certainly didn't seem to mind throwing away shelly and Titus, that's for sure, at least. Threw me for a loop.

[Fidget]

like after Titus/Taylor/Adorable. We probably should've take the 8 players, flipped direction upside down and gone from killing the most townie down and we would've won a while ago

Haha, well, hindsight and all that.

well, the thing is ... I'm not good at Elo in the way you seem to think. I generally find the last scum. convincing people its right is not my strong suit.

I have never been under the impression you have a clue which one of them it is

[Fidget]

Fidget what if it's Bell?

It isn't and I already agreed to being clowned on with Murderkitty in case it is so I've made my peace with that.

Like, as I was reviewing dead scum, there were a lot of points I could have made to defend Bell further, but I felt like it didn't matter to me nor anyone else at this point.

[Fidget]

its murder.

Why didn't you know that at the start of the day if you had Pooky above him in your reads? You advocated for Bell when Pooky did and then after Murder accused you of following the flow you just started accusing them both indiscriminately.

Noraa>Bell>

Pooky

>Murder

[Fidget]

yes i know which is why it makes sense for it to be Bell.

What did all those scum die for if not to get him to the promised land?

We put Noraa at the top, did we not..?

There was that whole section where Murder and I had a full-blown panic attack that you were going to replace Bell as #2 in the townblock which pretty much confirmed that was the case.

[Fidget]

Bell was blazingly obvious town from his interactions with dead scum and also his whole attitude basically the entire way through.

I will say that I did have one good game as scum where I was killed by town for being too townie.
They removed all my sin and I needed sin to live in that game. >.> It was a game mechanic.

Did you call people idiots (or imply they were crazy) for suspecting you in that game, by chance?

[Fidget]

We put Noraa at the top, did we not..?

There was that whole section where Murder and I had a full-blown panic attack that you were going to replace Bell as #2 in the townblock which pretty much confirmed that was the case.

Noraa got to #1 in spite of all the scum trying to kill her though.

After D1's town-led wagon on her, only one scum attacked her at a time and they never actually got anyone to help them, though.

Shelly and Zdenek attacked her when she was vulnerable, tried to take credit, and set up possible partners in UNOwen/Bell/someone else after a red flip. Titus as well. Lapsa voted her early.. but decided she wasn't worthy of being in his top 5 end of day.

After we decided she was town, Titus stopped. Fred hard tunneled her until he died. Shelly too. Then DGB. Like clockwork actually.

[Fidget]

No.

Yeah I guessed so

[Fidget]

I've already said my spicy take on the scum team. I think they all just took shelly's reads and reasoning, tweaked them a bit, and posted them

Why exactly..? To cement you as #1 towny? Because that's how you do that. They didn't stand a chance of getting you killed, they had to have known that.

[Fidget]

I very much hate that I have to depart on my journey to chem hw land rn. If pooky scrolls me, I'll feel like its my fault that town loses. I'm going to request that

Hectic extend deadline by 2 hours or something

Likewise, I have psych to do. I estimate that it will take less than 20 hours to complete, though.

Consider this my "If I start posting, bark at me to go away"

[Fidget]

Murder, no giving up...

[Fidget]

Wait you trolling or are you thinking Noraa now?

[Fidget]

I don't even know why I asked that because if it's a reaction test you wouldn't say so

woahhhh 9 people on my wagon. thats a first. Opportunistic scums are plenty in this game then. Shelly and Adorable specifically. I'm still convinced they r scum and I think I'm definitely passing it to one of them if I get the scroll since I dont have any really strong TRs yet.

If anyone "accidentally hammers" tho, I'm SRing you to hell and back, scum and ur going down with me 100% if u try to get that towncred.

this is the wagon at this point in the game:

[9] Noraa: UNOwen, Lady Lambdadelta, Hopkirk, MURDERCAT, PookyTheMagicalBear, Adorable, Flea The Magician, Toogeloo, shellyc

Is noraa telling her scumteam she will blast them in the face if they try to get towncred by hammering her?

I'm unsure if she is calling out the people voting her as scum, or the people not voting her as scum.

[Fidget]

Fidgey everyone else is saying Noraa now. What do u think?

I have been leaning Noraa the entire way through but not enough to have total confidence. Her Eylo performance has been extremely suspicious, and she is compatible with most of the dead scum.

There are some oddities like passing to LLD and Frederick's weird tunnel that seem strange to me if Noraa is scum. However, shelly + Zdenek + Lapsa played like they were with Noraa, Titus/DGB neutral on.

And Murdercat I have not decided to fully trust yet because, unfortunately, he isn't Bell-levels of bussing on dead scum. Not quite.

..

Are you referring to Murder and Bell as "everyone else", or the dead spirits of the fallen players coming to you in a dream? Because Murder/Bell (and me) saying it's Noraa is hardly recent at this point.

[Fidget]

Yeah, I think you could probably find an example of every town player except for Tayl0r saying it was Noraa.

Scum also said it was Noraa, but Shelly and Zednek at least seemed more preoccupied with setting up people who were "bussing" her.

[Fidget]

What's with the change of heart? Was there something you saw? I'm basically just regurgitating what we've been saying.

[Fidget]

Oh, 449.

[Fidget]

If anyone "accidentally hammers" tho, I'm SRing you to hell and back, scum and ur going down with me 100% if u try to get that towncred.

OH HOLY SHIT

I just reread that slowly.

[Fidget]

It sounds like she is telling her teammates to not try for towncred for hammering her cuz she will scroll them 100% right?

Yeah.

There is no reason that Noraa should think that someone "accidentally hammering" her would give them towncred. Am I missing something? Maybe she thought it would give them a boost of towncred until the flips or something?

How do you justify thinking that someone hammering you, a town player, will end up giving them towncred?

But why does she address her scum partners like that? Was it absent-minded and she meant to say something like.. I don't know. Something related to opportunistic scum being on or about to be on her wagon, and she seriously flubbed up the wording. I say this because I think most scumslips are bogus.

[Fidget]

...did you just say people who hammer you accrue towncred?

How did we miss this. :facepalm: :facepalm:

It sounds like something that almost makes sense, just with some words swapped maybe? I distinctly remember reading it and I didn't think anything of it, because without paying much attention, it sounded like it made sense.

I found the response.

...did you just say people who hammer you accrue towncred?

I think I was getting a few things mixed up when I said that.
I was thinking if anyone accidentally hammers, confscum.
I was also thinking anyone that doesn't know my meta that doesn't jump on me is trying to get towncred.

mixed those together and we got ourselves a "forced townslip" and a "forced scumslip" now eh?
I sure am good at slipping. where's LLD and her confident SR at?

[Fidget]

...did you just say people who hammer you accrue towncred?

I think I was getting a few things mixed up when I said that.
I was thinking if anyone accidentally hammers, confscum.

I was also thinking anyone that doesn't know my meta that doesn't jump on me is trying to get towncred.

mixed those together and we got ourselves a "forced townslip" and a "forced scumslip" now eh?
I sure am good at slipping. where's LLD and her confident SR at?

I don't really know what this line means or how the 'scumslip' occured according to her, exactly, I would need Noraa to explain it again.

It sounds like she either seriously screwed up the wording or accidentally mashed together the thought of "You're scum if you pretend to hammer me" with the fact that those on her wagon get towncred. I don't think she intended to address her teammates, the worst looking part about it for me is probably slipping that voting her = towncred. But perhaps it's a terminology screw-up. I'm not sure from her explanation.

Regardless of the outcome of your discovery here, I'm close to choosing Noraa but I want to review Murderkitty first. Maybe I do that now.

[Fidget]

I’m guessing Shelly in the scum pt told scum to hammer Noraa for town cred because it was a lost cause and Noraa didn’t want to die. She told them no way. Then Shelly was like nah u going down today so we need the towncred.

The only way for Noraa to make sure her scummates wouldn’t hammer her for towncred was to publicly commit to scrolling whoever hammered her >>> which is why that sentence makes sense in the context of Shelly bussing her.

That is true, it would screw over her teammates from being able to hammer her. But would Noraa really go against her team like that? I feel she didn't intend for that sentence to come out that way.

But it comes off like a direct order to her team, yes, lol.

[Fidget]

Murderkitty votes Noraa for the alleged faked townslip as well as the whole discord thing
Murderkitty clearly wants Noraa..
..to the point of treating her as conf!scum.
Agrees with Bell that shelly is on her scum game.
Murderkitty is pinged by shelly's postings on Noraa.
Reels back on shelly after a reread, thinks possibly bussing but not as strong.
Murdercat says Noraa goes down for sure, ~5 votes on Noraa at the moment (Side note: Shelly is adamant she is not bussing Noraa hahaha)
Murdercat is somewhat phased by Noraa's emotional reaction, but remains firm that she needs to eat this elim.
Back to Noraa being 100% scum after Noraa expresses intent to scroll LLD.
Going crazy on Noraa
Momentum has shifted due to Mush's defense of Noraa. Murdercat still wants to see her dead.
Puts Noraa back to 5 votes
Wants Noraa dead, she may be town but it's tough luck. If Noraa is town, Pooky maybe scum. Furthermore, Mush, Taylor, and Fidget are town.
...but do NOT give it to Pooky today.
Shelly is 100% sure it's Noraa. Murdercat counters with 70%, he feels bad.
Titus is reluctant to vote Noraa. Murdercat ends up convincing her.
Murder wants Noraa scrolled first because he isn't sure she's scum.
Calls Lapsa sketchy for coming in with a self-vote, but more specifically for actively reading but not posting.
Not willing to give a definite opinion on Lapsa from it, though.
Goes through Noraa's meta. Notices she is more emotional than usual, but believes she is good enough to know what she is townread for.
Seems to get shaken enough from voting Noraa that he switches to Pooky, believing him to be scum if she is not.
Clarifies that Pooky is a compromise since he can't get Noraa.
Pooky, Shelly, Toog, Vax, and Lapsa is the solve.
Switches to Toogaloo after Hopkirk, shelly, and Bell go there.
Getting excited. Feels Vax is bussing Toog.
Very confident the he has the solve, again feels game is solved and calls out to Hopkirk and Noraa to help him.
So begins the tragic hard push on Toog
Basically this entire area is just Murdercat feeling sure of his perfect solve. Moving on.
(imagine over a hundred posts about how confident he is that he has this right)
Clarifies if he got the scroll, would have shot Lapsa.
Finds Pooky to be more likely scum out of shelly-Pooky...
..but refuses to grant Shelly towncred for the hurt reaction. Finds it unlikely she didn't know.
Points out Noraa is scumslipping all over the place but allows his Pooky scumread to override that by 70%.
Thinks shelly maybe forced the reaction to the hurt in response to me saying it's shelly.
Lapsa asks if MC is still mad. He says "idk, might shoot you Lapsa". Lapsa gives no fucks though.
Worried Fred is town and we're getting snowed by strong players.
Trashing on shelly lol
Concedes Fred wagon is town led, but finds Pooky/Shelly/Gloria's hop-ons to be weak.
Weirded out by Lady's vote on Toog.
Outlines why LLD is possibly scum.
Not comfortable voting with pooky on Fred and not convinced and doesn't see why Bell is so confident.
Worried we go town!Fred into town!Noraa and lose. Really wants Pooky.
Votes Pooky, but not with the bravado he had D1.
Willing to compromise on Fred because of his past mistakes.

// I want to note here, I actually.. don't think scum!Murder pushes Pooky and fucking LLD at the start of D2. He seems to have thought Pooky or Noraa was scum, and he decided it was Pooky.

Encourages Fred to shoot LLD. A bunch.
Pooky, LLD, and Shelly are Murder's picks.
Seems a bit phased by Fred actually voting LLD tells him to just vote if he's scum.
Thinks that Shelly, Fidget, and Pooky are good candidates now.
..but didn't actually realize Fidget has been tunneling shelly the whole time, so thinks about removing Fidget.
Explains to Noraa why Mush is obvtown off scum!Fred.
Still has grievances with shelly but not committed to it yet.
Removes Pooky from scumpool.
Willing to go shelly but wants the voters to slow the fuck down.
(Long, long string of posts deciding that shelly is scum.)
(Shelly is hammered. After a little while decides she is scum from behavior.)
Noraa, Adorable, Flea, and Gloria are town. Titus is suspicious.
Gut read shelly is going to flip scum, feel Titus probably does too.
Agrees with me that Titus looks really bad for the UNOwen reasoning. Or did I agree with him. It's pretty mutual.
Switches solve to Fred/Shelly/DGB/Flea/Titus
Surprised Mushy is going for Adorbs
Adorable is town from Fred interaction.
Holding on to Pooky pocket suspicion.
They both agree it's DGB/Titus/Flea tho
Pretty sure it's DGB.
Believes DGB is town after the vote though.
Anger at Noraa
Gets upset, votes Titus though
Admits he probably missed on Pooky, but later.. ..maybe it is Pooky. He goes back and forth on this a lot.
Wants us to just get rid of most suspected players.
Approves Bell/Noraa final 2.
Considers self to be third.
(Has a panic attack we might lose to scum!Pooky. Yes, I love this section.)
Murder proposes Flea > UNO > Pooky | Murder > Fidget > Gloria as our plan.
Pooky wants UNOwen in the finale, but Murder wants Fidget there. Pooky responds by saying UNOwen has better associatives.

// If scum!Murder's plan was to paranoia Bell or Noraa.. don't you think he should have advocated for UNOwen being here? We could have had UNOwen here instead of me, which would have been a dream for scum!Murder. Why'd he want me? I was pretty clearly going after killing Pooky/Murder. UNOwen wasn't.

Proposes Flea > Gloria > UNO | Murder > Pooky > Fidget now.
It must be Pooky if we get to final 5.
Murdercat wants UNOwen killed in order to save Noraa.
Feels certain it is UNOwen now.
Haha, scum!Noraa never happens, let's just get Fidget..

haha

(Fidget takes a look at the scroll)

Everything else is recent.

Glad I did that.

I refrained from commenting for the most part, unless I felt really compelled. After reading his life story, I don't think this is our imposter. He was actually off the mark too much in a way.. whilst simultaneously being on it a lot, but not in a way that ever felt intentionally planned.

My mindmelding with Murderkitty stands... I still like him... There's nothing here that overturns my trust in him, the areas where he's wrong seem less scummy to me now that I've read them. He's done a hell of a job if scum, there is nothing that

really

implicates him as being with the deceased scum. Around 75% through D1, he continued the game through the lense of "Fuck maybe it isn't Noraa, and if so, it's Pooky and we're fucked". And after that he went to, "Fuck, we're getting slammed by scum." How do I distinguish this from scum simply trying to save his partners asses? I'm not sure. It's possible that he was. But it doesn't read to me like that. I've linked the posts, you can decide for yourself.

Is Murderkitty smart enough to realize he can maintain a paranoia of Pooky and put him in a 1v1 with Noraa which allows him to fuck with his reads in favor of his teammates? It didn't even work, it backfired if he's scum because he didn't save anybody. He probably wouldn't have even thought he could. So why? But if Murderkitty is scum, I attribute his read of Pooky to be the #1 factor that he was probably consciously fucked with in order to justify avoiding Fred.

But he didn't avoid anybody past Fred. He was fine with shelly's death, although he wanted us to chill and vote slower because he felt we couldn't be sure. And he slammed DGB/Titus without hesitation. For a loss if he's scum because he himself put Noraa/Bell on a pedestal and kept me alive in favor of UNOwen who would have certainly gone after Noraa. Does he think there's a way he wins in Fidget/Murder/Pooky/Bell/Noraa, with Fidget dead set on hitting Pooky? Hell no, right? And what are his teammates doing to help him exactly? They don't even... speak of him ever? Why not do something weird like have everyone scumread him out of nowhere?

.....

All that's left is to read Noraa and compare. Does Noraa have strong associatives that function like "Noraa pushed this person too hard"? I don't think so, but I will find out. She has good looking interactions with Fred. But bad ones with other scum, chiefly shelly. I sunk so much time into this..

[Fidget]

Did u really reread a 1200 post iso

Yes

I don't think she is saying it to her partners, I think it was a perspective slip

That is my interpretation. That, or it's meaningless. Could go either way.

(imagine over a hundred posts about how confident he is that he has this right)

Lol you're the best fidget

<3

Did u really reread a 1200 post iso

I think she's going back in on Noraa

You are a hero fidget

Hero, maybe, or a total failure to the town. You and Noraa are the only ones who know which.

[Fidget]

Fidget if you ever need help on your psych homework let me know :D

Thank you matey.

But if u pass to me, its my fault that we all lost :(

Again, I think it's pretty clearly mine. Bell can take some responsibility in that case if he wants too.

Its never the decision makers fault. It's what caused the decision.

I think it is the burden of the person making the read to have the read be correct.

Every single scum calling me scum is more scummy than murder's zero interaction with basically all of the scum team?

seriously WTF.

You were going to endgame and win, Murder wasn't. They were letting themselves lose, playing 1000 IQ, or just really really lucky if Murder is scum.

[Fidget]

It's stupid cuz I can already imagine shelly had a post in the pt like "Yo Murder. Push Noraa in limlo. Use posts blah blah and blah against her. U got this! Now peace while I just go sac myself."

I would be astounded if shelly thought this far ahead.

She was blatantly acting like you were her partner, and we totally missed it up until now.

Who brought up shelly's interactions with you first, anyway? Was it Murder, or are you just saying things? If it was Bell does that mean you suspect Bell instead?

[Fidget]

God this is just a deja vu of Chara's Folly.
Pooky is me
I am morning
Murder is worstie
Bell is Lav

What a game.
3 lost large themes. I sure am a god of some kind.

Sorta poetic, in a way, considering you were the executioner in that game and the executed in this one.

Really should have meta'd Murdercat, but no real time for that.

No ones done much ISOing of murder. All the focus has been on me. Lowkey stupid.

WHAT

[Fidget]

The entire ISO had a lot of reasons why Murder is scum. Fidget just thinks my scummy behavior is > than that.

I mean fair but I always look scummy in limlo and if any of you are gonna bring up meta at all, you should know that :/

Show them to me, then? Noraa, I need more than AtE. I didn't point out hardly anything that implicated Murder was scum in my opinion, but I laid out Murder's ENTIRE GAME in that post. If you could use it to show me why you think it's him, that'd be fantastic.

I had one main point in the notes underneath that I think was key for him in the case he's scum, but it didn't prove he is scum or make it more likely.

Why do you think Murder is scum, and how did you get there? Your thoughts today have been completely reactional - not once have I felt like you actually care about who dies or care to figure out who scum is. You just want to live. I can't guarantee you're scum, but it makes no sense for town!Noraa to not give a fuck who gets launched, your goal is not just to save yourself but to also find the imposter.

[Fidget]

Perhaps I need to say its more like
Everyone : isos murder looking for towntells. Then isos Noraa looking for scumtells.
Everyone : Noraa is scum

I found every post of his related to scum, major wagons, or you. Then I summarized the post, and put a link to it. That is all I did.

I drew conclusions underneath but the read just generally didn't do anything to shake me. What reason do I have to make Murdercat town rather than you?

I haven't ISO'd you yet, either. I've ISO'd dead scum, at least three of which have incriminating ties to you, possibly four. Frederick is the best looking one for you.

[Fidget]

Fred happens to be the most inexperience and worst scum out of them all also.....

Unless ur telling me all of the scums sucked ass except Fred....

Yes. You've got Frederick going for you. I'm not locked in yet, specifically because of his behavior.

But even then, I can think of two reasons to hit LLD: A.) She was the towniest player and had to die at some point and B.) All least two other townbloc members (Bell, Mushy) would have shot shelly for sure, with Murder as a "maybe".

I cannot explain why he chose to tunnel you. That's probably one of the only mysteries I haven't figured out a solution for. Perhaps it is connected with how the entire scumteam thought it wise to tunnel you. A tactic of some kind, I'm not really sure. It's not enough for me to trust you. I need something that incriminates Murder or something that actually makes you think it's him.

[Fidget]

Timer: (expired on 2020-11-20 21:36:19)

Gonna do the same thing for Noraa soon and see where that gets me.

[Fidget]

The entire case on me is basically just that the scums set everything up around me being scum. Except if they all knew their buddy was gonna die, wouldn't they set up all this shit and be on her wagon for double the towncred?

I’m not sure if we should just dogpile on Noraa now or just have a gentle beings agreement to give them the scroll later. Though I think the latter could be a problem in getting situated with good reads and atmosphere.

no this is fence-sitting

I love the bell-noraa push

VOTE: noraa

I know scum!noraa, this is exactly like them. self awareness, overdefensiveness instead of reads, cautiousness instead of stubborness

^There are 100 examples of shelly talking like this

lld i dont like how youre trying to paint me as scum here. if im scum, regardless of noraa's alignment, its an awful play for me to be so blatant in defending her. i get wayyy more scrutiny than WK points, and if she flips scum i probably die too.

this is right
bell is scum for basically refusing to read noraa
noraa is scum for outlined reasons
LLD is town because lld/noraa is not s/s
taylor is town because of this post

why is murder town btw, entrance doesn't really ping either way

^Setting up Bell as with Noraa

Ah yes, I knew that my vote against Noraa would lead to good things.
The wagon looks promising, Noraa's reaction to the pressure has indeed been flaily.
Adorable's vote was not great.

Think this is quite LAMIST
Hey I’m voting with you all! I’m town for this!

Adorable shade not explained which is weird

^Setting up UNOwen as with Noraa

I've read up to page 6, and skimmed the more recent stuff.
Unvote

Consider my vote on Noraa.

I'm inclined to agree that Noraa's town-slip looks faked, and the meta argument for why it is scummy seems good to me.

My top three scum reads are Noraa, Owen and Bell.

What's this all about?

Ah yes, I knew that my vote against Noraa would lead to good things.
The wagon looks promising, Noraa's reaction to the pressure has indeed been flaily.
Adorable's vote was not great.

^Setting up UNOwen as a Noraa partner

VOTE: Noraa

^Lapsa votes you when its rising

shellyc
UNOwen
Hopkirk
Titus
Zdenek

Ranked.

..But mysteriously drops it later

Oh ok.

VOTE: Noraa

Noraa
Pooky
Adorable
Lapsa
Theta

Subject to change. Not ranked.

4/4 of them bussed you Noraa.

[Fidget]

But even then, I can think of two reasons to hit LLD: A.) She was the towniest player and had to die at some point and B.) All least two other townbloc members (Bell, Mushy) would have shot shelly for sure, with Murder as a "maybe".

LLD almost certainly went to me. It was legitimately 100% me or Theta. The only reason why LLD didn't shoot me was because all of town was super against it.

You weren't even in her top 5 at the end of it all.

Could scum have known that? Probably not, I agree. But it turned out you were never in danger. Did scum put you at risk, though? Yes, I agree. If they are as farsighted as you seem to think they are, this is actually a really great calculated risk by them if you think abt it.

Was it better than scrolling Bell or Mush? YES.

Pooky would have missed, though, so perhaps he would have been good. But LLD was far townier than he. I need something more.

[Fidget]

LLD almost certainly went to me.

It is possible this actually was the plan, to try to get some town cred for Shelly, Titus, and Goofball who suddenly were taking a lot of heat for sussing Noraa. Which would then make LLD not hitting Noraa the funniest thing to happen in a game I've been in since Pooky shooting his own traitor :)

At the time I was more widely TRed than shelly if I remember correctly so like ..... no

So in other words, it was less likely that LLD would shoot you, as compared to Murder/Mush/Bell shooting shelly?

Yes I know that I'm arguing the opposite point as Murder and making it impossible for you to explain this, but in my interpretation you weren't intended to die. I think it's a calculated gamble that paid off big, evidently. Ties into the whole distancing thing they've got going with you really nicely.

I'm starting the ISO now, maybe there's something I've missed. If you are town I am truly sorry for being so wrong.

[Fidget]

Was it better than scrolling Bell or Mush? YES.

no?

By what reasoning? This is mine:

- Bell would have shot shelly.
- Mush would have shot shelly.

[Fidget]

murdercat you wouldn't lie to me would you?

Of course I would, if I were scum :twisted:

I think I played a relatively townie game that includes things I wouldn't do as scum. It's up to you and Fidget if you think that tracks

You'll break my heart Murder.

[Fidget]

Ties into the whole distancing thing they've got going with you really nicely.

PFFT. distancing? They distanced from Murder way more than me. Every post they made basically just makes me look like a partner.

All signs point to me being scum from all of the dead scums. That doesn't seem alarming? Literally the amount of interaction with me is seriously over the top if I'm a partner and they are all going insane.

I am not the partner. It's 90% Murder. 10% Bell.

Did scum ever speak to Murder for more than 15 seconds? Correct me if so, but radio silence is not exactly what I think of when I hear 'distancing'.

The interactions I am pulling that incriminate you came

when scum thought you were dead. You cannot be getting set up because they thought you would be dead before now.

They treated you like they knew you'd flip scum and immediately began positioning to kill off non-voters and suspicious town 'bussers'.

[Fidget]

Since no one cares about this hella strong reason I'm town and why I'm even an IC to begin with, we will lose.

That is the core of why I am town and no one believes it any longer.

There is no more to say if that is the case.

Is that the only thing you have for me to prove that you're town?

Something

happened this game. How am I to know that it wasn't that pass by Fred? We locktowned someone by mistake, Noraa.

[Fidget]

Yeah....
I can't work with a town that is confbiasing this hard.
Y'all are assuming I'm scum and then looking for reasons.

I'm really not, but I imagine I'm going to get a lot of shit like this postgame if you're town.

You are far scummier this Eylo. It's hardly comparable.

[Fidget]

WHAT

[Fidget]

....potentially two more days of this bullshit are you fucking serious

[Fidget]

Noraaaa: Hectic I need a deadline extension for my chem class
Hectic: No, but if you used your day-vig I can extend it by 2 days
Noraaaaa: Ok day-vig Bell
Hectic: Done

WHAT IS THIS TIMELINE!?

I'd bet money on that

[Fidget]

The dayvig shot will extend any deadline by 48 hours.

Just to clarify, that is how the dayvig is intended to function obviously.

So either Noraa discovered she could get an extension by dayvigging while trying to get one.... or Murderkitty was aware that the dayvig would extend the deadline and it'd totally frame Noraa.

Personally, I would have never thought of using dayvig to extend deadline in a million years without being explicitly told. But I'm not scum, so.

Either way, that is golden.

[Fidget]

So either Noraa discovered she could get an extension by dayvigging while trying to get one.

It's also probably worth noting that this is (technically) useful to Noraa..

or Murderkitty was aware that the dayvig would extend the deadline and it'd totally frame Noraa.

..whereas this is just because it's funny and has no other purpose.

[Fidget]

imagine asking for a deadline extension and then 5 minutes later using your day-vig to extend that deadline.

can Noraa really be that brazen and heartless!?!?! :O

So she asked publicly without knowing her ability of course, then privately, then did the shot.

I cannot believe she'd do it 5 minutes later though, that's insane. But she had to leave and it was possible you shoot her immediately after I finish ISOing her, which I was in the process of doing.

[Fidget]

there's no fucking way murdercat saw noraa ask for a deadline extension and then instantly react by bigbraining that he could use his

day-vig

to extend the deadline and frame noraa. that'd be like one of the best plays of all time.

That is the only thing that could make this funnier, I would be absolutely astounded if he thought to do that.

[Fidget]

I am fucking tired of seeing scum pts say "sorry Noraa you were good fucking limbait/Noraa must feel so bullied rn/synonyms of this bullshit*

Pooky don't vote me. Murder is that last scum and I will dig up all of the dirt on him in .... 4 ish hours. Plus he scum slipped. If he was town, he'd know I was scum but he uses the word "possibly" and shit like that.

Like I know he is scum and he knows I am town but he scum slipped with that uncertain post.

Now that Noraa is actually confirmed

Huh?

[Fidget]

Hahaha I think we might have lost but fidget may have convinced me not to shoot you

Probably not barring a huge epiphany, but I don't think I would've ever given it to you in the first place.

[Fidget]

why did you want to shoot me

I was radiating so much goodnesss

I'm sowrryy.

[Fidget]

Awwh <3

[Fidget]

But I can tell you don't want to hear a case on murder anyways.

If you were town I am certain you would have made one. And there probably would be a better case for Murder than "Scum ignored him".

[Fidget]

There is a case. but if I spend 2 hours writing it and everyone ignores, was there a point?

Took me 2 hours to review Murder's ISO, and you ignored it.

I am still waiting to hear the case.. you've had probably four days.

[Fidget]

noraa is not going to put up a convincing case as either alignment. it is up to you fidget if you want to change my mind. otherwise we will scroll and pray.

noraa. no matter what alignment you are. i deeply appreciate your contributions to this game and I have tremendous respect for you. thanks for making it so good.

Fair enough, I suppose it'd be really hard at this point.

I will have to start up a review on Noraa again later tonight..