Warrior Cats Mafia [Game Over!]

[Cephrir]

I don't think rephrasing my posts and then adding the word "act" is a strong or persuasive attack strategy

[Cephrir]

I don't think rephrasing my posts and then adding the word "act" is a strong or persuasive attack strategy

IF YOU WANT ME TO STOP PUSHING YOUR SLOT, YOU WILL HAVE TO POST A FULL READS LIST. PRETENDING TO BE SCUMMY OR INDIGNANT ISN'T GOING SUBSTITUTE FOR HAVING ACTUAL THOUGHTS ON THR GAME.

i don't care if you keep pushing my slot i think it's funny that you think you can tell me what to do

[Cephrir]

i haven't been posting a lot of reads because i don't have much confidence that my instinctual reads are good, they're very consensusy and have a lot of low charisma players at the bottom and so i think they are probably wrong and this game is going to be hard but that doesn't mean i can pinpoint the problems

[Cephrir]

i probably want to flip titus and datisi and see where that gets us. i feel bad for scumreading datisi with 0 reason since he is trying so hard

[Cephrir]

i haven't been posting a lot of reads because i don't have much confidence that my instinctual reads are good, they're very consensusy and have a lot of low charisma players at the bottom and so i think they are probably wrong and this game is going to be hard but that doesn't mean i can pinpoint the problems

Who do you consider low/medium/high charisma?

this doesn't feel like a question you care about the answer to and i wonder if it's a trick to get me to approximate a readlist but sure whatever. most of the recent replacements i'm still judging off their predecessors and will answer accordingly

MathBlade Alisae - medium
flow trap catboi - high
Nero Cain Charloux - low
Datisi - medium this game
Toogeloo NorwegianboyEE - medium
Bell - medium
KittyTacky - low
Dannflor - high
Mistyx - medium
SCRRRDBEAR - high
Titus* - low this game
fireisredsir - high
Cephrir - high
Enchant Shiro - low
Something_Smart - low
boy next door Val89 - medium
PenguinPower - medium

all this exercise has done is make me wonder whether my original statement is actually all that true

[Cephrir]

was thinking of charloux on that one

[Cephrir]

i don't think mistyx is scum, so no we cannot

[Cephrir]

damn it datisi we crossposted our soft defenses

[Cephrir]

This day felt....

Productive.

[Cephrir]

But who cares? Who actually looks at wagons? Who cares that a lot of the active town who pushed T3 and hard town read me got subbed out? Who cares that most of the town early voting me have beef with me?

Literally, this game was a stop until the subs.

can you play this game instead of complaining about it not being a different game

[Cephrir]

I don't hate you at all. That's just something you've made up and ran with despite me refuting it several times.

Name 1 game where you have actually felt I was smart or correct.

there was the mystery box of silver where you got 1 scum correct and that mini we were both in where I sheeped your scum reads. I mean yes maybe I don't think your reads are great all the time but that doesn't mean I hate you.

stop trying to act like gamma

You and Cephrir vote me almost every game. Math is either scum (probably) or in a pissing match.

The rest of almost all the rest of the wagon I called scum first.

Quite stupid. If this was anyone else you'd see it. Bear spams away so PP can lurk.

haven't you been scum in most of those instances?

voting you a lot and hating you are very different things im sorry if it's ever felt personal

[Cephrir]

But who cares? Who actually looks at wagons? Who cares that a lot of the active town who pushed T3 and hard town read me got subbed out? Who cares that most of the town early voting me have beef with me?

Literally, this game was a stop until the subs.

can you play this game instead of complaining about it not being a different game

I ALREADY FUCKING SOLVED IT. WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT?

convincing reasons, i guess :/

sorry, i don't mean to irritate you. btw, do you currently have marashu's role then, or no?

[Cephrir]

But who cares? Who actually looks at wagons? Who cares that a lot of the active town who pushed T3 and hard town read me got subbed out? Who cares that most of the town early voting me have beef with me?

Literally, this game was a stop until the subs.

can you play this game instead of complaining about it not being a different game

I ALREADY FUCKING SOLVED IT. WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT?

convincing reasons, i guess :/

sorry, i don't mean to irritate you. btw, do you currently have marashu's role then, or no?

No. Marashu isn't Windclan.

Fire - Vapid nothingness in his ISO
PP - Lied about his T3 trajectory and then tried to deflect
Bear - Spam of bullshit particularly me and mistyx to discredit

Math (weaker) - Compromise on a townread, no push on SRs

Why fire over any other meh poster?

I think your reasons on PP and math are valid even though I'm not sure if I agree or not.

I don't think bear is scum but I do get it I guess.

[Cephrir]

Why fire over any other meh poster?

THIS IS SCUM SHADING AN OBV TOWN SLOT

FIRE'S POSTING > CEPHRIR'S POSTING

Bro literally what are you even talking about can I have a conversation without inhaling bear fur because you've jumped down my throat before I even start

[Cephrir]

I didn't like her exchange with you and I haven't been impressed with her posting since either

[Cephrir]

I think I see where this is going so -- when I call her reason to suspect you valid I don't necessarily mean the lying part. I have never fully adjudicated whether lying occurred but I don't think so. But I still feel leery about your part in that conversation as well. I'm aware this doesn't make a ton of sense

[Cephrir]

I think that’s a very fencesitting statement for how objective the situation is. Even after you “saw where this was going”

Fences are comfortable.

[Cephrir]

Hey whoever's in a hood with datisi. What is datisi doing in your hood? Thanks

[Cephrir]

That seems deeply suspicious.

[Cephrir]

What are the odds of some sort of scum PT spy? Or can we safely say someone in that good is probably scum?

[Cephrir]

I feel like it implicates penguinpower so heavily that it makes me think that's not what's going on.

[Cephrir]

VOTE: Datisi

[Cephrir]

I feel like this elim was achievable without outing but oh well

[Cephrir]

ALRIGHT THE MAIN PLAYER I'VE BEEN WATCHING IS MATHBLADE. IT SEEMS LIKE HE IS RELUCTANT TO VOTE DATISI BECAUSE HE KNOWS MY GUILTY ISN'T REAL.

TAIL

WAS A CRUMB FOR "TALE" IE I AM A BAD COP AND LIED ABOUT MY GUILTY

I INVESTIGATED MATHBLADE BECAUSE TOWN!MATHBLADE DOES NOT READ TITUS CORRECTLY, AND I THOUGHT HE WAS SHADING CEPHRIR A LITTLE BIT.

VOTE: MATHBLADE

MATHBLADE IS ALIGNED WITH THE DARK FOREST, NO

TAILS

THIS TIME

Go jump in a lake.

UNVOTE:

[Cephrir]

FINAL VOTE COUNT

[8]

MathBlade

: SCRRRDBEAR, Mistyx, PenguinPower, Freedom, flow trap, Bell, Enchant, MathBlade
[1]

Datisi

: Cephrir

[6]

Not voting

: Datisi, Toogeloo, Dannflor, fireisredsir, Something_Smart, boy next door

—

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to eliminate.

Day three ends in (expired on 2022-11-28 19:02:41).

MOD NOTES

• have fun!

• let us know if you have any questions, or if something's wrong!

• keep track of your post count!

• currently v/la: n/a. if i'm missing one/you're not v/la anymore let me know.

Can you chill for two seconds jesus

[Cephrir]

I don't think boy next door is scum, despite his posts

[Cephrir]

VOTE: something_smart

[Cephrir]

I think I will be eliminated this game and I can't say I would blame you

[Cephrir]

I'll probably see if I can get anything off alisae tomorrow

[Cephrir]

My iso

[Cephrir]

By the way, any opposition to S_S getting a PR.

I mean, yes? How the hell are you guys picking these.

[Cephrir]

VOTE: fire feels kinda bad to get lucky twice

[Cephrir]

It does explain why he wasn't exciting me I guess

Reliable tell 10/10

[Cephrir]

I mean, yes? How the hell are you guys picking these.

What are you afraid of happening? What PR could I have as scum that you wouldn't want activated?

I would like to activate town roles

[Cephrir]

how does that make sense for scum at all?

i must have missed something, how is charloux solely to blame for the activation?

[Cephrir]

i see

yeah i dont love that either

[Cephrir]

...how are you expecting to understand it if you haven't read the game?????

[Cephrir]

Personally I just can't understand ancient Greek. Probably has nothing to do with the fact I've never tried to understand it

[Cephrir]

???????????

[Cephrir]

Because I isoed fire and their posts didn't ping me as AI.

Was fire acting Town in D1 or something?
I literally didn't read that part of the game.

Bro what

[Cephrir]

We know

[Cephrir]

There isn't a contradiction.
I didn't read D1 as a whole but I had skimmed a ISO of fire and it seemed NAI.

then why do you have to ask if he was acting town or not.

[Cephrir]

I should try today

[Cephrir]

VOTE: flow trap

[Cephrir]

But I'm gonna try later, probably

[Cephrir]

One coin flip doesn't effect the the next coin flip.

It's more like a card draw, in which case it does affect it

We're talking about the same thing right?

I don't think so. I'm pretty much saying that unless Ydrasse intentionally put their paw on the scales. There's no reason to discount any particular configuration beyond what's in the game itself.

Praying hands emoji

[Cephrir]

[Cephrir]

Ceph.
What is your opinion of Bear's vote on S_S?

i was just waiting for a clarification. i read it as probably a reaction test but wasn't saying so for obvious reasons, but now it's out there so w/e

Also, what is your opinion of Penguin's 4425?
It feels a bit odd that his first assumption was that Bear had a guilty when Bear never said that.
In opposition, when Bear pushed Math, he mentioned Math being a guilty.

i figured he was playing along with the reaction test but if he did think it was a guilty for some reason i would not be terribly fussed about it

[Cephrir]

To me, it seems very weird that an action with a target would take place instantaneously; like, would the mod wait for the recharger to submit their action before starting the night? Large theme with weird mechanics or not, usually actions are submitted during a time period instead of becoming available and instantly resolving.

is there scum motivation for this? if not, then who cares?

[Cephrir]

His 4460 is over the line if he didn't actually believe in the guilty.

:shrug: okay so maybe he believed it. so what?

[Cephrir]

if anything i expect scum to be paying more attention to the mechanics

[Cephrir]

He said that I had no brain.

I don't understand why you expect me to care about this

[Cephrir]

let's see, who is in wind clan and can read it to tell me who alisae's partners are.

ah, i see. boy next door and toogeloo.

guess i can throw that line of inquiry straight in the garbage.

i skimmed the first page of alisae's iso. it did not tell me much of anything and i did not enjoy it

[Cephrir]

Because otherwise it looks like you're just letting me go off on kittytacky while shit talking me to your clan

I mean...Ya...I've been limiting my engagement with the thread ever since I voted T3, only really engaging with Datisi since that was something I started and only when I felt like I have something to add to thread.

Are you saying like I'm not allowed to observe you doing your thing? I have been for the most part radio silent when it comes to putting out content since I finished my engagements with Datisi. Am I not allowed to take a step back and remove myself from the game? Do I have to post about it like Norwee did to let everyone know that this is something I'm doing? I don't get why you think I have to immediately engage you just because I think you could be a wolf.

And you want to know what I see?
What I see is you making the extra effort to try to push a person I think is probably going to flip town in response to big T3 wagon.
I also see you trying to discredit anyone who claims to have a strong read on T3.

In fact, me writing this out made me ISO you ant ctrl + f T3 and I see you're first read on him lmfao im ded
guy gets his own category
says needs to give player more time
Heck honestly I wouldn't be surprised to see T3 flip wolf and you be aligned with him given your very first read on T3. That's the kind of read I give my wolf buddies who need time to become players but then never eventually play. Put him in wolf pool, fos him, never vote him. It's a fucking tale as old as time.

I wouldn't even say my read on T3 is strong just PoE since it doesn't make any sense for anyone else to be a wolf in wind clan unless it's like Val or something and I'm not buying that.

I also don't get this thing where I have to apparently "read your posts" to have a fos on you.
Like you can say whatever the fuck you want, I'm not going to find you if you're scum because of the things you say.
I am going to find you based on your actions and reads because that's way more worthwhile than the nitty gritty small details of your posts.

- fwiw, I think his reactions to me trying to cancel him and get people to just not engage with him, honestly, I buy it, I think it's genuine and doesn't come from a wolf.
- I also buy that one post he also made where all of the normal q players have meta on him but no one else here does. That seems more real than him saying he is anxious about going over post cap.

- So what's probably more likely is wolves are jumping to KT like dogs to a bone.
Way more people suspect KT than Norwee and I mean, just look at his posts.
Guy plays like newbtown.
Listening to him explain his reads makes me think he doesn't understand the game at all. This is why I've been saying that his reads are actually just below random. The way he talks about his reads, how he got them, and like, why, is just incredibly weak and makes me think he would actually just be better off RNGing his vote.

None of this is particularly convincing to me, it's just multiple variations on "he seems real" when I've had very specific issues with his posts that I've brought up and you haven't really bothered addressing. I don't buy that the emotionality is something that's unlikely to be faked in this instance.

And how did you go from thinking his posts were basically scum trolling to this? I don't get what flipped you around.

I mean you decided to remove the bit that REALLY gave me pause. Ya know, the bit about how I think all of the people who voted Norwee D1 are probably town and how literally 3 players, mastina, SS, and Kitty, never moved their vote at all during the course of the day? That's the kind of stuff that REALLY made me reconsider along with the other more weaker points and I mentioned this (just the voting stuff) to Titus and she told me to take a step away from the player SO THATS WHAT I DID.

How do I go from this guy is scum trolling/openwolfing to this??? I mean who fucking wouldn't when they get told to reconsider and the nature of the read and the player??? You think I can't at all consider the too wolfy to be a wolf angle and that I should just be locked into this read all day??? That sounds like something scum!Ali would do honestly.

"i think you're a wolf and your play has been worse today, so i am going to actively block you from getting the info that you need to solve and play better"

ok alisae, you're not gonna shitpush me from this game

This is...
actually how I think...
as a villager...
and I'm not sure I like it...

MAYBE this isn't aligned with catboi or datisi?

[Cephrir]

let's see, who is in wind clan and can read it to tell me who alisae's partners are.

ah, i see. boy next door and toogeloo.

guess i can throw that line of inquiry straight in the garbage.

i skimmed the first page of alisae's iso. it did not tell me much of anything and i did not enjoy it

What was the purpose behind this post?

are you of all people really trying to come at me about pointless posts

im showing my thought process because i am town even when it doesnt amount to anything. if you don't like that i do not care

why are you determined to interact with me specifically

[Cephrir]

The setup doesn't look super unbalanced to me

We've been lucky

[Cephrir]

gentlefolks

Why are you in this mafia game if you don't want to play mafia

[Cephrir]

It's based on the evidence

[Cephrir]

what evidence would that be

viewtopic.php?p=13566041&user_select%5B ... #p13566041

[Cephrir]

@dann hi why can't I remember anything you've posted since day 2

[Cephrir]

you aren't even pretending to think bear is scum

[Cephrir]

VOTE: boy next door

policy. i don't think this slot is scum

[Cephrir]

._.

[Cephrir]

i don't know what to believe anymore.

[Cephrir]

VOTE: Bell

[Cephrir]

Cephrir -_-
He's literally lying.

he certainly could be

[Cephrir]

No

[Cephrir]

That is correct. I guess Frozen Angel didn't deliver the message to leader chat, but don't waste it on me. My role sucks.

[Cephrir]

You're not gonna take the football away next time right

UNVOTE:

[Cephrir]

i think i asked a long time ago about how datisi has been using the neighborhood, and i don't think i ever got an answer

[Cephrir]

I'M GLAD TO SEE SS IS HELPING WITH DOING ALL THE VCA. I THINK THAT'S THE BEST THING TO DO IN THIS SITUATION WITH ALL THE FREE SCUM FLIPS WE GOT FROM TPRS.

I WOULD APPRECIATE IF SOMEONE WHO IS BETTER AT VCA THAN I AM LOOKS THROUGH SS POSTS TO MAKE SURE IT'S A NATURAL THOUGHT PROCESS AND EVERYTHING. MY INSTINCT LOOKING AT HIS POSTS IS THAT THEY'RE GENUINE, BUT MY TAKE IS BASED ON VIBES MORE THAN ANY LOGICAL INFERENCES.

I don't think that Datisi asking for a confirmation is AI though.
It could easily be Town wanting to know his action went through.

THIS IS FLEXING YOUR BOP-RANGE, FREEDOM, BUT I WILL TRY TO BE PATIENT.

LET ME BREAK IT DOWN FOR YOU:

TOWN SIDED REFRESHER:

DOESN'T CONTRIBUTE TO WIN CONDITION UNTIL MISTYX OR I GET AN EXTRA SHOT OFF AND COMMUNICATE TO THE HOOD/THREAD OUR RESULTS. REFRESHER FAILS TO ACCOMPLISH ANYTHING IF THE PLAYER THEY REFRESH IS KILLED BEFORE DELIVERING A RESULT. THEREFORE, YOU DON'T WANT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, THE THREAD TO KNOW WHETHER YOU DELIVERED A LIVE TARGET TO MISTYX OR SCCCRDBEAR, UNTIL THEY HAVE COMMUNICATED THEIR RESULTS.

SCUM SIDED REFRESHER:

DOESN'T CONTRIBUTE TO WIN CONDITION UNTIL THEY

SAFELY

(LIKE, THE TPR CAN BE KILLED BEFORE DELIVERING A REPORT WITH THE SHOT) REFRESH A POWERFUL TPR AND THE POWERFUL TPR COMMUNICATES TO THE THREAD THAT THE REFRESHER DID INDEED TARGET THEM. IF THE COP DIES BEFORE COMMUNICATING TO THE THREAD THAT DATISI TARGETED THEM, DATISI DOESN'T GET TOWN CREDIT FOR USING HIS ROLE.

WITH THAT BEING SAID, WHICH CONDITION IS DATISI PLAYING TOWARD THROUGHOUT D6?

i used it on the cop, bell

the amount of good faith i get from it wouldn't be enough as scum when i used it on the cop

oh fucking bless

bear, pls confirm you got the shit from me

bear pls were you targeted by me

i kind of liked datisi's reaction to being fake guiltied but fuck me if this isn't a good post

[Cephrir]

i should try going over fire even though i don't feel like i'll get anywhere. but i'm not going to do it today

[Cephrir]

still don't think that slot is scum, like, at all, but VOTE: boy next door anyway

[Cephrir]

previously maybe, but today? no, not really. as i said i found your response to being fake guiltied believable. i just also remembered that my previous question was never answered, and i find your answer satisfactory given that dannflor posted without objecting to the characterization

[Cephrir]

oh right i forgot about liking that post too. meh. i have research to do before i make any real votes, but i can happily toss the guy who won't play the game

[Cephrir]

Did we not ever figure out what happened there

[Cephrir]

i could VOTE: freedom, i say in direct contradiction of myself on this very page.

[Cephrir]

I'm guessing those results were not interesting.

[Cephrir]

oh should we not just flip PenguinPower and/or Freedom then, considering we haven't hit scum in thunderclan yet

We haven't hit scum in RiverClan, either.
Why are you not focusing on them?

...yes we have?

[Cephrir]

I THINK THE OBVIOUS SCUM NARRATIVE IS TO IMPLY THAT THE LEAK COMES FROM THUNDERCLAN, BUT I DISAGREE WITH THAT, BECAUSE I CLAIMED COP IN MY HOOD. IF THE LEAK CAME FROM THUNDERCLAN THEN I SUSPECT I WOULD DIE RATHER THAN KITTY.

when did you claim in hood?

WHEN TOOGLE SAID THE LEADERS SOMEONE HAD VOTED SOMEONE ELSE.

THIS A SCUM NARRATIVE THAT DANNFLOR OR CEPHRIR MIGHT BE PUSHING. WE ALREADY ESTABLISHED A LONG TIME AGO THAT THERE ISN'T A LEAK IN THUNDERCLAN BECAUSE I WAS A CLAIMED COP THERE BEFORE NIGHT EVEN STARTED WHEN KT GOT KILLED.

Ok but consider that I forgot

[Cephrir]

Lukewarm replaces boy next door.

oh thank god

[Cephrir]

dannflor is making me feel vindicated in not liking this game very much

[Cephrir]

i hope datisi is scum because if he is then i had one read this game that wasn't trash

[Cephrir]

dannflor is making me feel vindicated in not liking this game very much

CEPH POCKETED BY BOTH SCUM WOOOO

if it helps, i also scumread his posts on the subject, but nonetheless

[Cephrir]

it's really not an enviable spot i'm in for a hypothetically long game. most players have figured out that i'm town but scum will never kill me because i'm useless and this uselessness becomes a self perpetuating cycle because i have to still be in the game. uselessness begets uselessness

[Cephrir]

i think i'm leaning towards this being a good elim

you can claim if you want, i guess

pedit: oh

[Cephrir]

oh yea

[Cephrir]

im gonna go ahead and predict a scum flip i feel good about this suddenly

[Cephrir]

you should definitely shoot. i suppose i have all night to try to influence you tho.

[Cephrir]

tempting bell, specifically, with shooting me is just plain cruel to both bell and me.

[Cephrir]

Well shoot.

[Cephrir]

I dunno my instinct is to vote flow today but clearly my instincts have been trash tier all game

[Cephrir]

Is now a good time to mass claim?

Sure, it seems unlikely we have anything important still hidden?

[Cephrir]

Plus, if we do, scum have to spend a night killing Bell at some point so now's a good time to still be able to get a shot of something off.

[Cephrir]

In regards to cephrir. I should’ve vigged him.

i wish you had

[Cephrir]

sorry about your scum pm

[Cephrir]

sorry about your scum pm

Who talks like this, to a replacement

i'm plenty suspicious and this is definitely not a good reason for it

[Cephrir]

i haven't caught any scum or done anything at any point

[Cephrir]

It would be really funny if norwe was scum and y'all elimed mastina for being right

[Cephrir]

Guys,
quick question do I have to actually respond to Junko casing me or can I just let them continue to waste their time casing me.

you're good

[Cephrir]

we are not eliminating the vig today please try again

[Cephrir]

290

im not like super confident on it but i think he feels like town val to me

That's really kind of vague? Like what in specific have you seen that makes you think that? Elaborate a little for me.

i mean i already explained the specific aspect of his play that was reminding me of his town play idk what more you want

like i can go pull up the posts from invictus that i think are similar if you really want me to but idk what you're hoping to accomplish here

feels a little weird i wouldn't expect you to care about this

town indicative?

No, I don't want to read his posts from invictus, I want to read the ones from

this game

you think are towny. If you

have to

, you can draw a comparsion between butt I want a little more than one sentence from you on why he's towny.

I'm literally just asking you to elaborate on your read, why are you getting so defensive?

276. like i said, i think it's towny bc he is like, viewing the game as if it's revolving around him, that alisae has this master plan to start suspecting him prior to him pushing a case on them so that they can be the one to do it first. and just the overdramatic 294 is kinda the same vibes. it's just like, really over the top in an almost conspiratorial way? and that feels like something that is not super easy to replicate as scum bc replicating it would require being self-aware of it as town and i think it's kinda inherently something that you wouldn't be very self-aware about. and additionally this matches up with my previous meta knowledge of val

and im just kinda weirded out by your approach to me here bc it feels v different than past experiences when you were town

idk if you've ever asked me to elaborate on a read in that way lmao

Is it really that hard to understand that I voted Norwe first because it’s RVS and I’m happy to explore where a wagon might lead on a small TR on slot that hadn’t done much and stayed there because the best defense I’ve seen is “trust me you guys, they’re super town in the neighborhood?”
You keep saying you think you get it but then you loop back right into not knowing. Ask some clarification questions instead of looping. Into a deeper and deeper series of doubt that themselves don’t make sense because it almost seems like you can’t understand how time works. \: or something?

yes it very much is? bc it wasn't rvs? it was on page 24 how is that rvs? and you've kept your vote there the entire time, so if the vote was bc you're happy to explore wagons then why not ever explore other wagons? this is starting to feel like weird excuses to not actually do any normal town behavior like hunt scum or vote for the people you think are scum

and you are responding to a quote in which i did ask clarifying questions so... yea that's what im doing. i don't get the tone here. what do you even mean that i don't understand how time works?

i never said that i get why you're doing this. i specifically said multiple times that it is really weird and doesn't make sense to me. all ive said is that now you're at least showing your thought process and i feel like i can see that thought process even though i don't really think the thought process makes sense (and tbh kind of feels fake and made up after the fact to justify your behavior considering there are unexplained holes in it)

like in that post i specifically asked you to clarify what you meant by justifying your vote as a reaction to alisae's approach to norwee, when your vote was before they took that approach. and you ignored the question. and then made up another justification that doesn't make sense (rvs??). and then said that i should be asking more clarifying questions to understand you. like what

this isn't a bus

unfortunate we eliminated datisi while having access to this iso. dunno why we did that.

[Cephrir]

fixed:

290

im not like super confident on it but i think he feels like town val to me

That's really kind of vague? Like what in specific have you seen that makes you think that? Elaborate a little for me.

i mean i already explained the specific aspect of his play that was reminding me of his town play idk what more you want

like i can go pull up the posts from invictus that i think are similar if you really want me to but idk what you're hoping to accomplish here

feels a little weird i wouldn't expect you to care about this

No, I don't want to read his posts from invictus, I want to read the ones from

this game

you think are towny. If you

have to

, you can draw a comparsion between butt I want a little more than one sentence from you on why he's towny.

I'm literally just asking you to elaborate on your read, why are you getting so defensive?

276. like i said, i think it's towny bc he is like, viewing the game as if it's revolving around him, that alisae has this master plan to start suspecting him prior to him pushing a case on them so that they can be the one to do it first. and just the overdramatic 294 is kinda the same vibes. it's just like, really over the top in an almost conspiratorial way? and that feels like something that is not super easy to replicate as scum bc replicating it would require being self-aware of it as town and i think it's kinda inherently something that you wouldn't be very self-aware about. and additionally this matches up with my previous meta knowledge of val

and im just kinda weirded out by your approach to me here bc it feels v different than past experiences when you were town

idk if you've ever asked me to elaborate on a read in that way lmao

town indicative?

Is it really that hard to understand that I voted Norwe first because it’s RVS and I’m happy to explore where a wagon might lead on a small TR on slot that hadn’t done much and stayed there because the best defense I’ve seen is “trust me you guys, they’re super town in the neighborhood?”
You keep saying you think you get it but then you loop back right into not knowing. Ask some clarification questions instead of looping. Into a deeper and deeper series of doubt that themselves don’t make sense because it almost seems like you can’t understand how time works. \: or something?

yes it very much is? bc it wasn't rvs? it was on page 24 how is that rvs? and you've kept your vote there the entire time, so if the vote was bc you're happy to explore wagons then why not ever explore other wagons? this is starting to feel like weird excuses to not actually do any normal town behavior like hunt scum or vote for the people you think are scum

and you are responding to a quote in which i did ask clarifying questions so... yea that's what im doing. i don't get the tone here. what do you even mean that i don't understand how time works?

i never said that i get why you're doing this. i specifically said multiple times that it is really weird and doesn't make sense to me. all ive said is that now you're at least showing your thought process and i feel like i can see that thought process even though i don't really think the thought process makes sense (and tbh kind of feels fake and made up after the fact to justify your behavior considering there are unexplained holes in it)

like in that post i specifically asked you to clarify what you meant by justifying your vote as a reaction to alisae's approach to norwee, when your vote was before they took that approach. and you ignored the question. and then made up another justification that doesn't make sense (rvs??). and then said that i should be asking more clarifying questions to understand you. like what

this isn't a bus

unfortunate we eliminated datisi while having access to this iso. dunno why we did that.

[Cephrir]

enough to the point where at first i thought it was weird and the difference could be scummy, but i am feeling that less now

can you walk me through your thoughts here in more detail?

you started the game off with lots of opinions and reads and thoughts and even early voting

ive only played with you as town i think and my experience is that you haven't really done that at all

so my first thought was that here you might be feeling some pressure to do more in order to get townread and the playstyle difference could be due to alignment difference

lately tho you've felt more what i would expect (but still giving reads), which also makes me think it isn't like a completely different playstyle, you probably just genuinely had things that you had thoughts and opinions on, which is like a good thing anyway bc now its easier to actually track what you've been thinking

why am i towny

you feel like you really have your investigator hat on and your magnifying glass out but in a way that is more focused on moving the game forward and prodding things out from people than it is about performance or like putting your own mindset on display for townpoints

specifically it reminds me of turing test d1

these seem more like potential partner interactions to me

[Cephrir]

the catboi/dann thing is interesting ig. it feels like they're both kinda puffing their chests up a lil bit, maybe just bc it's all very... cordial? it feels like there's a slight lack of. something. behind the posts, intensity or conviction maybe. some of it feels a bit like writing for the sake of writing rather than like, a true reflection of a passionate scumread of the heart

that could just come from being 2 good players early on in the game who are aware that even if they find the other to be suspicious so far, it's hard to be confident in a read, so idk

i kinda still am more nervous about catboi of the two but it could be a playstyle thing that im not used to

kinda think this is a partner interaction also

[Cephrir]

It's strange that people started saying I sound like I don't want to be here when I in fact just started getting into the game and trying

yea it was sort of the opposite for me actually

earlier i just kinda had a vague nullscumlean bc you didn't seem towny. but that can happen if you're town and just not really feeling into the game

but 2173 really reminded me of lake melancholy where you would sometimes like, do those quote analysis walls where you point out responses to things but then overall it doesn't really go anywhere and while you're doing it you sort of have this energy of like your heart isn't really in it

it just kinda feels like you felt obligated to try but you're just kinda like limply waving yourself in the general direction of stuff thats happening

and i thought the way you handled it live was kind of weird and felt like it was phrased in a way to encourage both sides but not really wanting to take one

so when i asked you to take a stance your response of doing the post by post analysis but still not really taking a side felt weird and appease-y to me rather than something that came from a place of natural thought

and like if you're town then i feel kinda bad for dumping on your attempt to get engaged in the game but like i feel like there's a disconnect between you saying that you really feel its important and the way that you handled it

like that feeling of importance has to come from somewhere

its also just something i like to do as scum, if i see a moment of interaction where i can tell the energy feels off somehow is just fixate on that moment and try to work out the different angles of who could i could push as scum as a result of it

whereas i think town is more likely to have something specific that triggered their interest and have a worldview that they build around the situation. it still feels to me like you're just trying to poke holes in whichever side you can

does anyone think fire went from 100% ignoring me entirely to bussing me by dunking on my first meaningful engagement with the game? no? great

VOTE: fireisredsir

I no longer think mistyx is scum

hi whats up

why is catboi like the only one to like ever be suspicious of me this game idgi

like I've so clearly not been around why am I not being pushed

do you think that people should think you not being around is scummy for you

idk why that would be the case

not being around as much lately seems p reasonable given recent thread state

you've been towny when you're here imo

one of those "obviously i should be able to divine an alignment from this but i'm still hmming" exchanges

I just think I'm still well within my scum range and last time I was scum in a large I flaked out

I know it's not alignment indicative for me but I don't really expect everyone else to think that

I don't know I think I've been keeping a lot of thoughts to myself and slowplaying this game a lot so it's a little weird to me that I'm just flying under the radar

idk fire can you explain more what has been towny about me while I'm here? I feel like you would've reevaluated me by now

i think you keeping thoughts to yourself and slow playing is like exactly what i expect from you as town tho. that specifically was what i remember ari saying made you dangerous as town in turing test

you seem like you are clearly having thoughts under the hood and engaging with people when you want to

ive liked your gamestate observations and i think those are generally less likely to come from scum, at least out of nowhere

i liked your engagement with me earlier, felt pure and didn't give pockety vibes at all

idk i just haven't felt any reason to reevaluate on you since finding your d1 to be towny. i gave it some consideration after catboi's case but it wasn't really that convincing to me and then he later kinda took it back anyway

also tbh you being kinda missing lately does nothing to make me feel like you're more likely to be scum. id probably be more worried if it felt like you were trying to control things here, but ig it's true i don't really know how you like to play scum

why do you think i would have reevaluated you?

i want to throw this post out to the group do you have any thoughts about it

[Cephrir]

i wonder why scum dannflor has given so few fucks about the game while his partners alisae and fire were doing a pretty good job overall

[Cephrir]

i enjoyed fire's strategy of calling t3 a bus while bussing t3

[Cephrir]

i was mostly thinking about how ali tried to tie t3 and catboi together before t3 flipped

:thonk:

[Cephrir]

i had hoped when things started happening i would be able to decide what to do

unfortunate

[Cephrir]

im oakpaw/oakheart - fruit vendor

[Cephrir]

cool roles like non-activated fruit vendor

[Cephrir]

also there are clearly no VTs in this game so im not sure what you expected

[Cephrir]

it's not a vanilla cop

[Cephrir]

it does nothing besides inform your target that you targeted them, basically

[Cephrir]

that someone* targeted them

[Cephrir]

Basically a p boring claim that could just be a mafia version of itself even if we let Cephrir graduate and do it, so I prefer voting them out either today or tomorrow

i mean ive been saying my role was shit since day 1 lol

[Cephrir]

maybe u should try solving the game with reads instead of voting out the worst role when we're like, not even going to activate any of them anyway???

[Cephrir]

Cephrir: Nothing would please me more than to depart this mortal plane.
Also Cephrir: Don't kill me. oh my god you suck.

i would like to depart this mortal plane but granting my wish is still deeply incorrect

[Cephrir]

To read Junko I have to read catboi and I have little faith in my ability to do that

[Cephrir]

So, I guess that maybe we just don't give ceremonies until one scum is left and then we give you and Ceph powers.
Then, nobody gets powers afterwards.
Does this sound like a good plan?
(Assuming, scum doesn't go and NK both you and Ceph. Or I have bad reads.)

If either of us had useful abilities, it would probably be worth considering activating us.

But like... neither of us actually do anything lol

SS is the only potentially useful role and the only one we should consider activating but im not that convinced he's town

still, if something town was blocked it would out him so??

[Cephrir]

@SS and @Ceph

Do yall actually have Opinions on who we should be killing today?

i am Struggling

[Cephrir]

i should have asked bell to vig me

[Cephrir]

so i wouldn't have to make any decisions

[Cephrir]

I think I would lim dann or s_s today

this is where i am on a gut level but my gut keeps being wrong this game

[Cephrir]

i am gently leaning town on catboi at this moment but that's subject to change on a dime

i know you didn't ask about catboi

[Cephrir]

Ugh Luke is making sense

[Cephrir]

You'd make sense if you were scum :v

[Cephrir]

Alright then, I've seen enough

VOTE: Junko

[Cephrir]

Good morning.

I asked Bell for reads and he basically said it was probably just SS or dann slot. Not that thrilling but I wanted something to sheep.

I have done zero thinking overnight so I'll uh try later maybe.

[Cephrir]

Did bell express any thoughts about your alignment during the night?

He said I was town, but me telling you that now is not going to help anything

[Cephrir]

VOTE: Cephrir

If this slot is going to refuse to do anything besides vote me for no reason as they indicated yesterday, we might as well just kill me and get on with it

I asked bell to vig me but as you can see he could not

[Cephrir]

Did bell express any thoughts about your alignment during the night?

He said I was town, but me telling you that now is not going to help anything

Did he give a reason for changing, because you seemed to be in his PoE yesterday

Not really. He said it was funny that he finally got to that read and then I asked to die.

[Cephrir]

If we think this scumteam decided to run weird_interactions.exe then furtive as scum fits best

Or we can go with this "weird interactions except we ignore cephrir entirely" option I guess

[Cephrir]

VOTE: Cephrir

If this slot is going to refuse to do anything besides vote me for no reason as they indicated yesterday, we might as well just kill me and get on with it

I asked bell to vig me but as you can see he could not

This defeatist stuff is partly why I'm voting for you, feels like a scum tactic.

It's not working very well if so

[Cephrir]

I guess this one could be a weird interaction but I do think fore torpedoing my first attempt at content to keep me out of the game is pretty unaligned

[Cephrir]

Fire*

[Cephrir]

It's strange that people started saying I sound like I don't want to be here when I in fact just started getting into the game and trying

yea it was sort of the opposite for me actually

earlier i just kinda had a vague nullscumlean bc you didn't seem towny. but that can happen if you're town and just not really feeling into the game

but 2173 really reminded me of lake melancholy where you would sometimes like, do those quote analysis walls where you point out responses to things but then overall it doesn't really go anywhere and while you're doing it you sort of have this energy of like your heart isn't really in it

it just kinda feels like you felt obligated to try but you're just kinda like limply waving yourself in the general direction of stuff thats happening

and i thought the way you handled it live was kind of weird and felt like it was phrased in a way to encourage both sides but not really wanting to take one

so when i asked you to take a stance your response of doing the post by post analysis but still not really taking a side felt weird and appease-y to me rather than something that came from a place of natural thought

and like if you're town then i feel kinda bad for dumping on your attempt to get engaged in the game but like i feel like there's a disconnect between you saying that you really feel its important and the way that you handled it

like that feeling of importance has to come from somewhere

its also just something i like to do as scum, if i see a moment of interaction where i can tell the energy feels off somehow is just fixate on that moment and try to work out the different angles of who could i could push as scum as a result of it

whereas i think town is more likely to have something specific that triggered their interest and have a worldview that they build around the situation. it still feels to me like you're just trying to poke holes in whichever side you can

[Cephrir]

2245 is actual guilt because he knows I'm town

[Cephrir]

I guess I've been leaning scum on him by default but I don't actually have a reason and I'm not really that familiar with his meta so I'm currently considering that you could have a point

[Cephrir]

No one, honestly :/

Maybe freedom for charloux

[Cephrir]

I just hate this mafia game unfortunately

[Cephrir]

i'm town if that helps. freedom is my strongest tr for sure, i feel like furtive should be more readable than he is

any feelings about luke?

pedit: i do not blame you my brain is knots

Bell said he was town so I brought up "could that have been bussing" and bell dismissed it. I think Occam would have like as town and I'm willing to not worry about him today

[Cephrir]

I am really struggling to see how anyone has me anywhere other then their single highest town read right now tbh, so seeing both of you not have me there is pretty shocking ngl

You replaced into a slot that needed rehabilitation and you rehabilitated it but I haven't shaken yet the idea that you were in a spot where you had to do this

[Cephrir]

honestly, i don't think scum!you has a responsible action plan

other

than bussing junko.

This is really really not true. If I Was scum with Junko, your slot dies yesterday 100% of the time and me and junko are both walking into Melo today.

Like, the game was literally at 2 votes on Dann, 0 votes on Junko, when I started actively campaigning to change that.

Might be valid

[Cephrir]

I am really struggling to see how anyone has me anywhere other then their single highest town read right now tbh, so seeing both of you not have me there is pretty shocking ngl

You replaced into a slot that needed rehabilitation and you rehabilitated it but I haven't shaken yet the idea that you were in a spot where you had to do this

Then you and I have wildly different views of the game state, because a Melo with me and junko both alive, needing 1 miselim inside of you or SS to seal out the game seems like it would have been a cake walk of a game lol

....yeah

[Cephrir]

Duck pockets are comfy

[Cephrir]

*sheeps lukewarm*

[Cephrir]

he's so persuasive tho ;_;

VOTE: furtive

[Cephrir]

i was doing this bit well before the scum started losing

[Cephrir]

i don't mean that in the sense that it is acting. i assure you it is not and i do not enjoy it

[Cephrir]

it was an obvious play tbh

[Cephrir]

especially with 1 scum alive i fully agree it would have been optimal but i guess they didn't know the outcome when they were deciding

[Cephrir]

i didnt think about it that hard yesterday but it's sort of hard to imagine what scum role could possibly have even mattered in that situation. what are they gonna do, strongman us

[Cephrir]

yknow if scum aren't multitasking we can potentially clear me tonight and if that's the case luke is already clear

[Cephrir]

i guess the mod probably won't tell us that tho

we were probably being ridiculous to fear empowering scum yesterday. should've just hit our one possible useful role in ss with it. are they going to ninja past our nonexistent power, godfather past our nonexistent power, rolecop to find our nonexistent power

[Cephrir]

if they have a scum vig for some reason they'd be outing by using it and still would not win, etc

[Cephrir]

@mod do we get to know if scum are multitasking by default

[Cephrir]

Actually, I see you mean because he voted Dann first.

But like. Bell's solve was Dann + junko

Still realistic, theworst could just be efforting as scum. But I'm sick of Cephrir's air of doom

So you're voting for me out of annoyance

Weird take from someone who's saying others are throwing

[Cephrir]

@Everyone

Can everyone please take a moment to tell me your thoughts, given this set up, if it makes more or less sense for there to be scum in the council?

i honestly have some trouble squaring how the setup is balanced with scum in the council, but did we ever get another explanation for the kittytacky kill? i forget

[Cephrir]

Actually, I see you mean because he voted Dann first.

But like. Bell's solve was Dann + junko

Still realistic, theworst could just be efforting as scum. But I'm sick of Cephrir's air of doom

So you're voting for me out of annoyance

Weird take from someone who's saying others are throwing

I think your air of doom is a scum tactic

cool

why?

[Cephrir]

@Everyone

Can everyone please take a moment to tell me your thoughts, given this set up, if it makes more or less sense for there to be scum in the council?

i honestly have some trouble squaring how the setup is balanced with scum in the council, but did we ever get another explanation for the kittytacky kill? i forget

Why do you think that it would be less balanced that way?

what is to stop scum from shooting every significant source of town power

[Cephrir]

Actually, I see you mean because he voted Dann first.

But like. Bell's solve was Dann + junko

Still realistic, theworst could just be efforting as scum. But I'm sick of Cephrir's air of doom

So you're voting for me out of annoyance

Weird take from someone who's saying others are throwing

I think your air of doom is a scum tactic

cool

why?

Just seems easy to do

how does that make it a scum tactic

[Cephrir]

Actually, I see you mean because he voted Dann first.

But like. Bell's solve was Dann + junko

Still realistic, theworst could just be efforting as scum. But I'm sick of Cephrir's air of doom

So you're voting for me out of annoyance

Weird take from someone who's saying others are throwing

I think your air of doom is a scum tactic

cool

why?

Just seems easy to do

how does that make it a scum tactic

idk it's like a gimmick to try and earn pity?

you know what else is easy to do? attacking something without having any real thoughts behind it

[Cephrir]

@Everyone

Can everyone please take a moment to tell me your thoughts, given this set up, if it makes more or less sense for there to be scum in the council?

i honestly have some trouble squaring how the setup is balanced with scum in the council, but did we ever get another explanation for the kittytacky kill? i forget

Why do you think that it would be less balanced that way?

what is to stop scum from shooting every significant source of town power

The pair of mason doctors that did not need to be activated?

they both needed to be alive to function, and they wouldn't know who to protect if leaders didn't out their targets to everyone

[Cephrir]

i thought one of them said that

guess i could be misremembering

[Cephrir]

The counter play options of the scum feel INCREDIBLY limited if they are off the council, to punish bad town plays like the above.

i agree that the described action results in a rewarded bad town play

however: we didn't really have strong enough investigatives to create a follow the cop situation; also, i wonder if something along the lines of fire's claim (scum got to power up one of their own pregame) might have existed to offer them counterplay

[Cephrir]

I already thought that Dann was hella scummy before he flaked. You can check back the iso.

i just want to get this out before reading the rest of this post probably taints my view: i was thinking last night that dann's play actually does fit in with the apparently scum gameplan, in that he had wacky theater interactions with catboi

[Cephrir]

still would prefer flips in council where we can.

then why are you voting for something_smart

[Cephrir]

He stops voting Council Member A, and starts shading Council Member B [He is Council Member C]

did i miss the part where something_smart is on the council or what

[Cephrir]

BTW I don't think anyone could have not shot bell last night lol, leaving him alive any longer would point to his reads having mistakes

i concur -- afaik bell never outed how many shots he had, and as a result i think anyone could easily think he might not be limited and feel forced to get him the hell out of here

[Cephrir]

what is to stop scum from shooting every significant source of town power

the mason doctors?

it's weird to me that the mod would essentially punish us for playing well (i.e. not outing every leader target)

[Cephrir]

i still kinda think, irrespective, we should do SS' warrior ceremony and try to go into d10 f3

Doesn't this require trusting me? You'd have to lim two people who aren't me, and if I'm scum I just win the next night.

I think that he meant kill someone today.

Day 9 is 4 alive, no kill

You try to stop the kill night 9.

If the kill happens, then your target is cleared in 3p elo, you and your non-target cross.

If the kill does not happen, then you and your target cross.


Either way, it results in a clear in (m)elo

what is to stop scum from holstering here

[Cephrir]

fun fact: raccoons cannot read

[Cephrir]

in fact some have said they do not even understand english!!

[Cephrir]

y'all, it's freedom

ah, that did it, my reads have spontaneously flipped!

[Cephrir]

the duck is an effective feels-get-into-er

[Cephrir]

there have been some like, tonal disjunctions from duck that haven't sat right with me, but i wonder if that's coming from my desperate hope that lukewarm will lead me to a victory i cannot find myself

[Cephrir]

and their reads have certainly been a bit all over the place

[Cephrir]

hm

[Cephrir]

To be, or not to be, that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them: to die, to sleep
No more; and by a sleep, to say we end
The heart-ache, and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to? 'Tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wished. To die, to sleep,
To sleep, perchance to dream; aye, there's the rub,
For in that sleep of death, what dreams may come,
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause. There's the respect
That makes calamity of so long life:
For who would bear the whips and scorns of time,
The oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely,
The pangs of dispised love, the law’s delay,
The insolence of office, and the spurns
That patient merit of th'unworthy takes,
When he himself might his quietus make
With a bare bodkin? Who would fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscovered country, from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will,
And makes us rather bear those ills we have,
Than fly to others that we know not of?
Thus conscience does make cowards of us all,
And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o'er, with the pale cast of thought,
And enterprises of great pith and moment,
With this regard their currents turn awry,
And lose the name of action.

VOTE: the worst

[Cephrir]

i should've voted for "made ya look"

[Cephrir]

at the end of the day i am taking this action mainly because 1) i think dann's play does actually fit with the rest of the team's play and 2) i don't think i have seen a satisfying explanation for kittytacky's death

[Cephrir]

maybe that second thing has been addressed and i glazed over it, but this vote feels the most right anyway, so shrug

[Cephrir]

despair
[ dih-spair ]
noun
loss of hope; hopelessness.
someone or something that causes hopelessness:
He is the despair of his mother.
verb (used without object)
to lose, give up, or be without hope (often followed by of):
to despair of humanity.
verb (used with object)
Obsolete. to give up hope of.

[Cephrir]

[Cephrir]

If we no elim I can fruit vend though I guess no one is really doubting that I can

[Cephrir]

i do want to tell mafia what to do: kill me

repent for your murderous ways by doing one good deed

[Cephrir]

my gut decision is to no lim so i can focus on one of luke/freedom to be paranoid about

[Cephrir]

on the other hand i think our chances of winning with a known town luke are dramatically better

[Cephrir]

ive decided that lukewarm is town

VOTE: furtive

[Cephrir]

luke. i think his solving has a lot of value, i want to see it, and i think i'm not going to eliminate him anyway regardless

i guess val could be more theater but i dont think it is

[Cephrir]

*braces for impact*

[Cephrir]

i did one thing right, amazing

UNVOTE:

[Cephrir]

@ceph and @furtive

If you are considering a possible scum!freedom, please talk me through your thoughts there.

Right now I am inclined to have him as the most likely town between the three of you, but want to hear from you before we commit to that idea

i plan to take a look but it's not at the top of my mind currently

[Cephrir]

@ceph and @furtive

If you are considering a possible scum!freedom, please talk me through your thoughts there.

Right now I am inclined to have him as the most likely town between the three of you, but want to hear from you before we commit to that idea

By play Freedom isn't that towny, but I feel like it would have been such a weird bus on JunkoChan. I think I was right on Cephrir pretty much since I replaced in. Partly because of their quickvote on me at the start of today. They weren't considering their options, just knew that me and them would be in opposition today. Cynical

Quick vote?? The choice of voting for you vs freedom to confirm Luke was arbitrary

[Cephrir]

Partly because of their quickvote on me at the start of today. They weren't considering their options, just knew that me and them would be in opposition today. Cynical

To be fair, because you were against confirming me, the only option to confirm me was for freedom and ceph to vote for you. Like, mechanically.

Er yes that too

[Cephrir]

I think we all know that if we conftown someone else it's going to be freedom. So all that really does is put me on a clock to look back and see whether I have any doubts. I guess I'll try to do that today.

[Cephrir]

God mastina potentially being right is so fucking funny to me

[Cephrir]

Dante's Mafia Commedia