HURT: Save The Dragons, KawaiiKame, Temporal Lich, GimliIn post 59, TemporalLich wrote: HURT: Save The Dragons, KawaiiKame
preliminary nightmare vote for now
Weird Dreams Mafia I [Gone]
-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8144
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8144
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
Don't really see it.In post 66, Empathice wrote: Botanical Rat is very towny.
Temporal Lich's #34 looks like campaigning to be placed in the Nightmare?
Agreed.In post 68, TemporalLich wrote: I'd say Botanical Rat is null with maybe an iota of town.
34 was me trying to explain the nightmare mechanic, and saying I'd put people who are good at solving the game in the nightmare as that's how to get the most town benefit from that mechanic in my opinion
pedit: good question... I can't answer that myself sadly.
Actually it feela you are solvong as well.In post 69, Empathice wrote:
No, I don't know them, but they're nearly the only person who's actually solving so far and certainly the person doing the most so far.In post 67, Doctor Drew wrote:
Do you think they are good at solving?In post 66, Empathice wrote: Botanical Rat is very towny.
Temporal Lich's #34 looks like campaigning to be placed in the Nightmare?
VOTE: Enchant
-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8144
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
In post 92, Kyoko Kirigiri wrote:
I have some questionsIn post 90, DragonEater70 wrote:
HURT: Save The Dragons, KawaiiKame, Temporal Lich, GimliIn post 59, TemporalLich wrote: HURT: Save The Dragons, KawaiiKame
preliminary nightmare vote for now
did you eat a baby dragon, Mr frog?
or maybe the frog is very large and could eat a big dragon
Did you 70 dragons or are you the 70th frog who ate a dragon?
please help me with my so many serious questions
I probably ate a baby dragon.
The 70 comes from the *tortoise*'s age.-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8144
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
Ebwop: this is not whatasapp
Imagine there were bold tags around the word tortoise.-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8144
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
HURT: Save The Dragons, KawaiiKame, Temporal Lich, Gimli, Empath, DragonEater
Btw Gimli I think is town because, from a mech standpoint, being hated only makes sense for town (basically makes ELo more dangerous) but doesn't work really with scum. Of course it could be a red herring though.
And nightmarin' myself because I'm conftown in my eyes.-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8144
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
I just sheeped Temporal lich with StD.In post 93, Kyoko Kirigiri wrote: oh and also can you write 1 line why you town read each of those 4 people you voted for?
Kawaii town pings me for paystyle.
TP is trying to gamesolve and be a town leader
Explained the rest I think.-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8144
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
Why wouldn't it? Ans also wouldn't mod say so in advance?In post 111, Enchant wrote:
I surprise you, but in most cases roles like these doesh't work in ELO so your logic are faulty.In post 109, DragonEater70 wrote: HURT: Save The Dragons, KawaiiKame, Temporal Lich, Gimli, Empath, DragonEater
Btw Gimli I think is town because, from a mech standpoint, being hated only makes sense for town (basically makes ELo more dangerous) but doesn't work really with scum. Of course it could be a red herring though.
And nightmarin' myself because I'm conftown in my eyes.-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8144
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
Good point.In post 112, MegAzumarill wrote:
I'd argue that town potentially losing in elo just because a particular member of their faction is alive over the others. (I.e. Gimli just gets autohammered by scum in elo and loses)In post 109, DragonEater70 wrote: HURT: Save The Dragons, KawaiiKame, Temporal Lich, Gimli, Empath, DragonEater
Btw Gimli I think is town because, from a mech standpoint, being hated only makes sense for town (basically makes ELo more dangerous) but doesn't work really with scum. Of course it could be a red herring though.
And nightmarin' myself because I'm conftown in my eyes.
Although it's also just fairly standard procedure to disable voting manipulation in elo anyway, so doesn't really mean much either way.
May be relevant for gimli to confirm whether or not his role is making him hated or if it's something else.
@Gimli is it your role?-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8144
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
I just didIn post 117, Enchant wrote: Because it forces police elimination on player which is unfun.
Mod probably say it. In Role PM. Did you ask Gimli?-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8144
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
Self nightmare isn't scummy, it was mainly an RVS vote.In post 121, Enchant wrote: I don't know who thinked that OMGUS is scummy and writed this on wiki (now people parrot this as universal scumread without thinking), but if someone thinks that selfvoting for PR is scummy, then they DESERVE the vote in response.-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8144
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
Really? I literally didn't see any interaction directed at me from them.In post 136, Empathice wrote: Kyoko might be pocketing Eater.
But might've missed, will ISO them later.-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8144
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
Idk.In post 159, Enchant wrote: It's still bad
I also don't like how you present yourself as tryong to avoid a vig trollshot when knowing you, you would give yourself vigshot at first opportunity.-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8144
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
Wait do you mean that Kyoko saying fluffy thongs about my username is an attempt to pocket me? It's literally just fluff.-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8144
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
Nah I would probably give mysepf cop or FN or something (I forgot what the abilities are so yeah).In post 163, Enchant wrote:
Anyone would give self vigshot at first opportunity because they are smartest/deserved it/it's funny/insert reason, it doesh't mean it's best for town.In post 161, DragonEater70 wrote:
Idk.In post 159, Enchant wrote: It's still bad
I also don't like how you present yourself as tryong to avoid a vig trollshot when knowing you, you would give yourself vigshot at first opportunity.-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8144
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
They are not, Empath is asking ehat TP is failing to see out of these two things.In post 151, KawaiiKame wrote:
Do you not think both is possible at once, why these mutually exclusive?In post 139, Empathice wrote: Enchant changing the story on their vote or Kyoko pocketing Eater?-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8144
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
1&2 - that's fair. I don't know if Gimli is town or not, I'll change my vote later cause too lazy atm.In post 167, Kyoko Kirigiri wrote:
I don't like this post.In post 109, DragonEater70 wrote: HURT: Save The Dragons, KawaiiKame, Temporal Lich, Gimli, Empath, DragonEater
Btw Gimli I think is town because, from a mech standpoint, being hated only makes sense for town (basically makes ELo more dangerous) but doesn't work really with scum. Of course it could be a red herring though.
And nightmarin' myself because I'm conftown in my eyes.
1- hated modifier is usually not for ELO, vote modifiers get disabled on elo for obvious reasons most of time.
2 - We don't know what skills a scum player might have. It might be strong enough to justify the hated modifier.
3 - You're town hunting more than scum hunting
Would you call that your play style?
This sounds a bit like panicking, the vote was initially done on a serious context/post. Why would you drop a random vote in this:In post 158, DragonEater70 wrote:
Self nightmare isn't scummy, it was mainly an RVS vote.In post 121, Enchant wrote: I don't know who thinked that OMGUS is scummy and writed this on wiki (now people parrot this as universal scumread without thinking), but if someone thinks that selfvoting for PR is scummy, then they DESERVE the vote in response.
So I feel like you're saying its RVS just to get away from a discussion about itIn post 94, DragonEater70 wrote:
Don't really see it.In post 66, Empathice wrote: Botanical Rat is very towny.
Temporal Lich's #34 looks like campaigning to be placed in the Nightmare?
Agreed.In post 68, TemporalLich wrote: I'd say Botanical Rat is null with maybe an iota of town.
34 was me trying to explain the nightmare mechanic, and saying I'd put people who are good at solving the game in the nightmare as that's how to get the most town benefit from that mechanic in my opinion
pedit: good question... I can't answer that myself sadly.
Actually it feela you are solvong as well.In post 69, Empathice wrote:
No, I don't know them, but they're nearly the only person who's actually solving so far and certainly the person doing the most so far.In post 67, Doctor Drew wrote:
Do you think they are good at solving?In post 66, Empathice wrote: Botanical Rat is very towny.
Temporal Lich's #34 looks like campaigning to be placed in the Nightmare?
VOTE: Enchant
really?In post 160, DragonEater70 wrote:
Really? I literally didn't see any interaction directed at me from them.In post 136, Empathice wrote: Kyoko might be pocketing Eater.
But might've missed, will ISO them later.
3. I feel it's easier to townhunt at the beginning than scumhunt, because I struggle to get scum reads on people before we have big wagons and readlists and all this kinda stuff. But as the game develops it gets easier for me to scumhunt.-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8144
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
And yeah the only interaction before this post was a bit of fluff and asking me to clarify my townreads. I don't see how this is pocketing.
As to RVS/not RVS - I don't know how other players see it on this site, but in my eyes there's several levels of RVS. I don't feel we've gotten to the point in the game yet where we can be 100% or even 90% certain someone is scum, but we can sorta vote people for semi serious reasons mainly to gauge reactions. I definitely didn't look at Enchant's post and said "okay they are scum", but neither was the vote completely random. It was somewhere in the middle.-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8144
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
Oh I meant TL, mb.In post 172, TemporalLich wrote: if you want a run-on sentence than sure
Save The Dragons has towny vibes (though has no real towny content), KawaiiKame also has towny vibes and also is pretty game solvey with their nightmare votes, DragonEater70 is quite solvey and good at townhunting, and Kyoko Kirigiri is quite towny and good at asking questions to gain info
pedit: uhh... who is TP?-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8144
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
Sorry, there are a lot of users here I don't really know so I might take a while to remember who everyone is.In post 175, Kyoko Kirigiri wrote:
Yeah that's fair,In post 173, DragonEater70 wrote: And yeah the only interaction before this post was a bit of fluff and asking me to clarify my townreads. I don't see how this is pocketing.
it was just that you said it there like you don't remember that we had any kind of interactions with each other-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8144
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
Why do you these as scummy and LAMIST?I truly fail to see what you are seeing.In post 181, imaginality wrote:
LAMISTIn post 55, TemporalLich wrote:
That means "look at me I'm so town", which is trying to appear town without actually doing towny things if I understand correctly.In post 52, KawaiiKame wrote:LAMIST? Lemme get acronyms
pedit: lol I got ninja'd
Scummy.In post 61, TemporalLich wrote: I still have no real scumreads as of now as we still are in RVS stage (not everyone has posted yet!) and I haven't seen anything I'd consider truly scummy
VOTE: TemporalLich
HURT: imaginality, Morning Tweet, DragonEater, Enchant-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8144
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
Yeah you were doing great, mate.In post 186, Gimli wrote: idk what the nightmare mechanic is, is it a vigilante kill?
if people wanna give a good townie vig this thing I'll campaign for it and refer to the last open game that just ended where I was town cannibal and I killed a wolf in n1 and then I targeted the serial killer on n2. it was a hard carry and amazing vig play.
something to consider...-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8144
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
I actually agree that it was a bad RVS vote but since when do you scumread ppl for bad RVS vote? At best Enchant's counter vote is another bad RVS vote.In post 187, Gimli wrote:
yeah that was a good post I think. scumreading dragoneater's RVS vote and whatnot, I agree it was a bad vote even for RVS. I think enchant feels engaged and happy with the game in a way that mirrors his town game well. but its early, I'm just strong townreading it atm.In post 185, TemporalLich wrote:
why do you townread enchant?In post 184, Gimli wrote: enchant very likely town
I don't really see how enchant could be towny especially since enchant has no reads other than scumreading dragoneater for voting enchant because enchant self nightmare voted-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8144
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
Okay do you prefer that I modguess you as being scum instead?In post 190, Gimli wrote:
yes I'm hated as per my role. I don't very much enjoy the modguessing that this means I'm town, but I'll take the townreads nonetheless.In post 116, DragonEater70 wrote:
Good point.In post 112, MegAzumarill wrote:
I'd argue that town potentially losing in elo just because a particular member of their faction is alive over the others. (I.e. Gimli just gets autohammered by scum in elo and loses)In post 109, DragonEater70 wrote: HURT: Save The Dragons, KawaiiKame, Temporal Lich, Gimli, Empath, DragonEater
Btw Gimli I think is town because, from a mech standpoint, being hated only makes sense for town (basically makes ELo more dangerous) but doesn't work really with scum. Of course it could be a red herring though.
And nightmarin' myself because I'm conftown in my eyes.
Although it's also just fairly standard procedure to disable voting manipulation in elo anyway, so doesn't really mean much either way.
May be relevant for gimli to confirm whether or not his role is making him hated or if it's something else.
@Gimli is it your role?-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8144
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
Is it already tomorrow for you? How much do you sleep???In post 204, Korina wrote: Vc latwr-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8144
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
I didn't assert anything, I only theorized.In post 206, Botanical Rat wrote:
DragonEater. I think his tone is off, and his assertion that being hated only makes sense as Town is very silly. I think he could potentially be attempting to pocket youIn post 202, Gimli wrote:
I want you to talk about this RRIn post 201, Botanical Rat wrote: I don't want to place a serious vote until I hear from bianco, but I definitely have one in mind
who you wanna vote?
I have ZERO prior experience with vote manipulation mechanics, or with bastard games, or theme games in general. So you'll have to excuse me if I make incorrect meta-mod-guesses regarding mechanics.
Also IDK how my tone is off, go read my completed games it's how I talk in all of them.-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8144
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8144
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
A wagon on Enchant, an OMGUS, way too many people accusing me of being scummy for random stuff like voting Enchant or theorizing about what the hated thing means.In post 213, Flea The Magician wrote: Morning.
Anything spicy in te 9 pages I'm not going to read?
VOTE: Rat
HURT: Flea The Magnificant, Gimli, Tweetie, Kyoko-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8144
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
Idk how that soubds organic, that's exactly what I would say if I were scum playing hydra.In post 203, Gimli wrote: I like the 'i'll wait for my partner' line cause it feels more organic hydra being townies but it's a thin read ofc-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8144
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
Wdym?In post 220, Gimli wrote: @dragon: his suspicion of you is good though, so whatever I felt in that post was likely right-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8144
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
Good point.In post 221, Botanical Rat wrote: Okay so. Scum being able to communicate with partners while in the Nightmare makes it absolutely IMPERATIVE that scum not be allowed in. Otherwise they can just shoot whoever gets the invention the same night.-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8144
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
Nvm I understood what Gimli is saying.In post 222, DragonEater70 wrote:
Wdym?In post 220, Gimli wrote: @dragon: his suspicion of you is good though, so whatever I felt in that post was likely right
I really don't know why BR is scumreading me but if you agree with it, fine.-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8144
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
Currently I have a lot of towbreads, some of which are based on flimsier premises than others. I don'treallyhave any scumreads, so I'm intending to do a bit of ISO diving on some players either later today or sometime tomorrow and see if I can dog our anything scummy.-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8144
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8144
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
Townreads*In post 226, DragonEater70 wrote: Currently I have a lot of towbreads, some of which are based on flimsier premises than others. I don'treallyhave any scumreads, so I'm intending to do a bit of ISO diving on some players either later today or sometime tomorrow and see if I can dog our anything scummy.
Dig out*
I should really proofread my posts.-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8144
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
No, I null read them.In post 239, Kyoko Kirigiri wrote: Am I the only one who is not actually town reading gimli.
I think him going after TL was not fine I think still and he is not doing much rn but talking about how many town reads he has
Like I just want to know why is everyone town reading him-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8144
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
Okay.In post 231, Gimli wrote: I'm not there yet saying the lurkers are >rand scum, not in this game. I think people are posting the right things. I'm really only townreading you, RR and enchant rn. I'll move my vote later.
Can you at least hurt me?
btw going now to review my last hurt vote and update it, brb.-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8144
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
In post 241, Empathice wrote: Apparently it wasn't RVS but can you explain why
it would be a bad vote for RVS?
Okay I really don't want to drag out this discussion, so I'm going to make a post about what I mean when I say RVS/Semi-RVS/Post-RVS, once and for all, and will refer all further inquiries to this post.In post 241, Empathice wrote: It WAS a RVS vote?
So, I have read several games on this site and also played a few so far. In my experience and analysis, the way games tend to develop out of RVS is in several stages. Unfortunately there is no developed vocabulary to refer to these stages, so I'm inventing my own:
1. RVS Phase I (Also simply called "RVS"): this is when people make votes based on completely random reasons, such as "I don't like your username", "this player was town last game so now they must be scum" or "they confirmed last so they scum".
2. RVS Phase II (I also call this "Semi-RVS" or "Post-RVS", but many people either call it RVS or ignore the existence of this stage completely): this is when people tend to start criticizing and analyzing other people's votes and actions, but often scumread people for things which reallyshouldn'tbe used as valid scumtells - unless it's in this stage. Examples include voting someone because their entrance is seen as scummy, or because they were the third person on an "RVS" wagon, or because they opposed someone's RVS vote and said it was scummy.I personally think these reasons are not good enough to make a case against someone, and I consider this part of RVS, although a more advanced part where. It's this stage normally people start trying to solve.usefulcontent is actually being generated through discussion. Unfortunately I don't believe many players share my opinions, and think that votes made during this stage are fully legitimate and people should be held 100% accountable for them
3. Then of course there is the early stages of the actual deep game, which develop by reacting to and analyzing the things done in the phase II RVS. And this naturally develops into later stages of the deep game.
An important point to note is that some players might be in a more advanced stage than others at a particular time, the others having had less interactions in the game and therefore less reads and so on. These stages can mix.
Now, my vote on Enchant WAS NOT a Phase I RVS vote. But it WAS a Phase II RVS vote. I was not making a serious case against Enchant but I also wasn't picking a random target and voting them completely randomly.
Does that make sense?
I'd like us to move on from this because I want to concentrate on actually doing some real scumhunting.
With that said, Gimli is not giving the same game solving vibes he did in Open 874, and I feel all of their townreads are really bad (including the townread on me which is really unexplained except by "he's doing really well".
So I'mma VOTE: Gimli-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8144
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8144
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
Appreciate the clarification.In post 246, Korina wrote:
This has been edited to reflect a correction. I’m at work and quickly typed n2 without thinking. Nightmare Runners will be sent their PT at night-start, a little bit before I post the flip. They do not get their PT at n2, for n1 runners LOL.In post 214, Korina wrote:
In a separate PT that I will send to all players involved at the start of night.In post 212, Botanical Rat wrote:@Mod
Does the Nightmare take place in the main thread or a PT?
And are scum in the Nightmare still allowed to talk to their partners?
And yes, scum are allowed to talk with their partners while alive. Being in the nightmare doesn’t prevent you from submitting actions.-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8144
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
I never claimed it wasn't RVS.In post 252, Empathice wrote:
I Thought Enchant was scummy because voting Eater for an obvious RVS vote seems ridiculous to me (Although if Eater RVSed someone who was v:la or such that would be a different story.) and they contradicted themselves. Eater seemingly claiming that their vote was not RVS has given me second thoughts.In post 247, Kyoko Kirigiri wrote: empath I can't follow your line of thinking
so you think enchant is scummy cause he voted someone for a possible rvs vote while saying it was a bad vote?-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8144
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
Disagree with the LAMIST point - I often explain things somebody asked only to find they were explained just a post after.In post 255, imaginality wrote: LAMIST for the first post because they saw someone had already answered but still posted their own answer anyhow which is of no pro-town value but which does offer a chance to show people "hey everyone, look, I'm a nice helpful townie".
Scummy because the first rule of RVS is you don't talk about RVS. I mean, it's one thing to not have any actual reads yet but it seems overexplainy to feel the need to justify it like that compared to give an RVSy bullshit scumread which might help spark reactions or progress things in some way.
I understand your other point though. I'll look into it tomorrow as I'm heading to bed.
Agreed, which is part of why I think Gimli's TR on them is pure BS.In post 255, imaginality wrote: Botanic Rat's post seems like words for the sake of words. We don't want scum to be in the Nightmare? Well duh.
Imaginality is +town at the moment even though I don't 100% agree with everything they say.-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8144
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
So nothing I've ever said was AI at all?In post 288, Ranger wrote: {Save The Dragons, Doctor Drew, Botanical Rat, Empathice}
{TemporalLich}
{Morning Tweet}
{DragonEater70}
{Kyoko Kirigiri}
{MegAzumarill}
{KawaiiKame, Enchant, Gimli}
P6.-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8144
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8144
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8144
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
I'm not waffling, I said it was semi rvs from the beginning and people kept questioning it so I had to keep answering. I really don't want to make it a point.In post 298, TemporalLich wrote: DragonEater70's repeated waffling on whether his vote is serious or not is extremely concerning and definitely unfit for the nightmare
What's making you townread Gimli though?
Seconded.In post 297, Ranger wrote: Gimli not guaranteed scum, but haven't liked his posts mostly. (Exception was 227, and only there.)
Also @everyone who tr's Botanical Rat and Doctor Drew: care to explain your TR's? I really don't see them.-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8144
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
I know this wasn't directed at me, but I just wanna chime in and say I've also taken note of the vote and felt it was a bit scummy, however I didn't feel it was enough to change my read of Empath. But maybe I could've at least questioned it, looking back.In post 314, Kyoko Kirigiri wrote: 4 - What is your take on how empath voted enchant. What do you think about the interactions surrounding his vote on enchant
So I would like to direct a question for Empath:
Why did you vote Enchant?-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8144
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
Okay I can kinda see the Doctor Drew tr but I agree that they shouldn't be so high up. Especially because they've done no scum hunting this far, only a bit of mech talk and townhunting.In post 316, Doctor Drew wrote:
I do wonder why Kawaii is so low, along with Morning.......and I have been lock town apparently, even I would say I haven't been blatant town.In post 315, Ranger wrote:
I've been playing games of werewolf since 2009. I've never stopped. That's 14 years of experience. Most of those were blitzes, too. And EpicMafia. Developing reads quickly was a must. I've slowed down in my old age.In post 305, KawaiiKame wrote:How do you get reads of everyone page by page? This is genuinely impressive, I hope to be this skilled in time
Big help: intellectual honesty. Let people move for any reason.Anyreason. A single good post up. A single bad post down. Out of sight out of mind move down. Sucks to let go of correct reads, sucks to change to wrong reads, but the honesty is worth it.
{Save The Dragons, Doctor Drew, Botanical Rat, Empathice}
{TemporalLich}
{DragonEater70}
{Kyoko Kirigiri}
{Clone, Flea The Magician}
{Morning Tweet}
{MegAzumarill}
{imaginality, KawaiiKame}
{Gimli}
{Enchant}
I realize I've too few scumreads. Hopefully will solidify these later. I did like Kawaii this page.-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8144
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
Fully agreed.In post 333, Kyoko Kirigiri wrote:
This is probably your first analysis of any slot in this game thread and I actually welcome it. So far you reacted vote to lich for something I feel town you would be more hesitant/analytical about, you threw some rand commentary about feeling good about most slots with almost no elaboration. The last one was about someone voting for you to be in nightmare without even sharing anything about how they read you.In post 331, Gimli wrote:I think given the questions and the places where the suspicion is allegedly coming from, I think it can be a >rand scum thing instead
Thats why I want to see you talk more about your reads. It seems so shallow that I think its very likely that your published perspective in this game thread is entirely forged.
I want you to explain why you think me asking these questions is me being rand scum and why where my suspicious is not towny in your mind.-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8144
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
You really shpuld be playing D1 when it's your town meta to be very active D1. Idk why town you wouldn't want to play D1.In post 339, Gimli wrote: you're really gonna make me have to play this d1 aren't you kyoko
hood <<<< vig, no? why would you prefer a hood over a vig instead?-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8144
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
You weren't playing much until around the time Kyoko and I started pushing you.In post 351, Gimli wrote: I'm very active regardless, and I am playing the game. the things kyoko want from me are really hard, cause I don't have good reads to share other than enchant = town for simple meta reasons.
I don't like that you're using that post to push me, DE. even though I'm saying 'you're gonna make me play d1', I don't get how your perception of me is of someone who wasn't playing d1 until now. you were really obvtowning our last game together as well and you just seem different here.
Now you are playing more, I just find it weird that you are saying Kyoko is "making" you play.-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8144
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
You already said that earlier. Still waiting for you to move your vote awayIn post 352, Gimli wrote: just ISO'd DE and am fine with him being a townie in this game actually, I missed a bunch of posts
But for real I actually do like the answers you gave Kyoko so I am gonna UNVOTE: for now.-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8144
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
I am going to have a look at some of the-less-recently-active players and see if I can spot scum there.-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8144
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
Why do you keep saying it's serious?In post 363, Empathice wrote: However it appears your vote was serious and I'm the only one here that can't see it being a serious vote at all?
I thought we'd gone over it already.-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8144
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
It's apparently "too wolfy to be a wolf", meaning "too scummy to be a real scum".
Also, sorry for not posting here in a while. I'm back. I haven't done any analysis of anyone at all. Doing it now.-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8144
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
Going to do a quick ISO of all the less active players (who I also have less to read off of), as I promised in 355
Starting with Flea:
Yeah this feels like town!FleaIn post 213, Flea The Magician wrote: Morning.
Anything spicy in te 9 pages I'm not going to read?
VOTE: Rat
HURT: Flea The Magnificant, Gimli, Tweetie, Kyoko
This is weird reasoning because scumchat is very different to main thread. And if Flea knows that then why are they posting that?In post 248, Flea The Magician wrote:
Not always, he did mech spec in the scum chat in Mutiny.In post 234, Save The Dragons wrote: enchant having wim/not trolling/doing mech spec is probably town enchant
Also feels like town!Flea (from the one town game I played with faer).In post 406, Flea The Magician wrote:
its more the readslist is force than the post, I haaaaaate having to spew D1 reads because they're like 1 point in either direction usually, sometimes 2... out of 10.In post 401, TemporalLich wrote: HURT: Save The Dragons, KawaiiKame, Gimli, Ranger, Doctor Drew, Morning Tweet
updating nightmare vote, removing kyoko for potentially having scummy pushes (exactly what wedon'twant in the nightmare) and adding doctor drew because of 398 giving good reasoning for reads and being proactive.
also adding morning tweet for the proactive post 396
I still think imaginality and Flea The Magician are scummy, and 357 is self-admittedly forced (very bad for nightmare votes!)
Verdict: leaning town.-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8144
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
Next up: Doctor Drew:
Kinda reads like scum trying to make a town-sounding post and deciding to post about nothing.In post 24, Doctor Drew wrote: I know this is wacky, even more wacky than a Korina game normally is, because they didn't make me CL.
Now I am all out of sorts.
I don't understand how anyone can read this as solvy? This is literally hurting players based on how good DD thinks they are at solving. It's basically meta and mech based, no solving.In post 302, Doctor Drew wrote: HURT: Gimli, Meg, Botanical
I think I do remember people saying we want the most solvy players to run the nightmare?
To me, at least who I have played with recently, Meg and Gimli would be at the top of my list. As far as the hydra, they both are quality as well....but I figure two heads are better than one in this scenario (it pains me to compliment a hydra lol)
This is kinda NAI on the surface, my brain says it's even a bit townie but my guy says it's actually scum trying to sound townie. Especially in Donner Party Firebringer (who was scum) was also posting about how they are not towny at all and they were scum.In post 316, Doctor Drew wrote: I do wonder why Kawaii is so low, along with Morning.......and I have been lock town apparently, even I would say I haven't been blatant town.
So I'm just going to say this sounds a bit like a stretch. If scum!me wanted to warn scum!Gimli about being scummy, I would've done it in the PT.In post 381, Doctor Drew wrote:
This just screamed of 'hey fellow scum, don't act so scummy'In post 350, DragonEater70 wrote:
You really shpuld be playing D1 when it's your town meta to be very active D1. Idk why town you wouldn't want to play D1.In post 339, Gimli wrote: you're really gonna make me have to play this d1 aren't you kyoko
hood <<<< vig, no? why would you prefer a hood over a vig instead?
Maybe this is actually a townie post? Acknowledging they haven't made any reads so far (except the one on me). Hm.In post 384, Doctor Drew wrote: And TL, tbf I did say I think they are solid players, not that I was town reading them per se.
Overall verdict: moderate scumlean.
VOTE: Doctor Drew
And to answer your question,
Maybe because I was really surprised Gimli was acting that way, and wanted to point it out? I was actually thinking that if Gimli refused to play this D1 actively then that'd be a meta scumtell. Gimli explained it quite well here:In post 393, Doctor Drew wrote: I bit on the nose yes for scum for scum, as I stewed on it a little bit more it seems more of a S v T thing.
I don't understand why town would say that though.
In post 395, Gimli wrote: DE just expects me to play harder than this since last game we played together I played it pretty hard and was hard TR'ed throughout
I'm just not finding my footing in this game much but I'm starting to come around in townreads and I might have a semi functioning POE in a bit-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8144
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
Morning Tweet:
NAIIn post 31, Morning Tweet wrote: I once had a dream that Enchant.....
once had a dream that DragonEater70..........
once had a dream that imaginality.....
once had a dream that imaginality..........
once had a dream that KawaiiKame.....
once had a dream that Enchant..........
once had a dream that Ranger.....
..........
once had a dream that Ranger.....
once had a dream that Empathice..........
once had a dream that Save the Dragons.....
woke up
VOTE: Dragons
I see this is a somewhat townie post.
Like this one, feels like townie mindset.In post 303, Morning Tweet wrote:
Reflecting.. I'm inclined to agree I think. I think him getting upset at people voting him plus sweating over the nightmare mechanic for some reason probably comes from a genuine place.In post 234, Save The Dragons wrote: enchant having wim/not trolling/doing mech spec is probably town enchant
It's less likely that he's reacting in a frustrated way in response to OMGUS as scum i think, I think he'd be more likely to brush it off. And I think his fixation on how the mechanic is used is more likely to be real, not sure what the obvious motive is for scum
HURT: DragonEater This is a very good bet.
Someone said that scum can't get in the nightmare. Sort of. I mean, if scum shoots the person who receives the nightmare, we're still gonna learn there's scum running the nightmare. The more people we put in there that we're sure are town, the better the result could potentially be. And the less likely scum will want to do that
Ideally it still needs to be as towny as possible so this nitpick im making doesnt rlly matter. But if scum get in we can still work w that is what I mean
Another very good post, feels very organic, I like how you can see MT's thought process unfold while writing the post. Very very townie.
I really like the critical thinking here.
Verdict: Strong town.-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8144
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
Meg ISO:
In post 12, MegAzumarill wrote:eggIn post 65, MegAzumarill wrote: Someone make reads so I don't have to
These feel very carefree in attitude, in a way that is usually townie. I don't think scum would fake this very easily. Like when Enchant fakes it, it's obvious.In post 107, MegAzumarill wrote:
You should put me in, so I can use the vigIn post 102, Enchant wrote: You should put me in, otherwise these idiots will try to use vig.
HURT: MegAzumarill
In post 268, MegAzumarill wrote: Not really sure how to parse imaginalities opening here because it feels very forceful and I don't think scum would draw that attention to themselves but also I don't think town has reason to do that.
I kinda like the critical thinking here, even though it's not a lot.In post 277, MegAzumarill wrote:
I mean it feels like making a mountain out of a common occurence (discussing RVS) and making a read purely off of that feels a bit unnaturalIn post 273, Empathice wrote:
Reason to do what, exactly?In post 268, MegAzumarill wrote: Not really sure how to parse imaginalities opening here because it feels very forceful and I don't think scum would draw that attention to themselves but also I don't think town has reason to do that.
Having moderately scummy players is ideal for making use of FN so Rat's comment has value.In post 269, MegAzumarill wrote: Empath, what do you mean by the fn bit
I get you said that but you followed it up with that if that wasn't the case then FN is the best option. Do you think FN is just the best option?
Would love an explanation of this read, at least in 1-2 sentences.In post 364, MegAzumarill wrote: Dragoneater prolly town
Verdict: townlean.-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8144
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
Hmmm maybe I should just get myself a note PT, do all these ISO's in there, and then just give you guys a readlist at the end of all this.-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8144
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8144
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2
Okay heading to sleep and will continue this tomorrow, maybe. But not before I HURT: Temporal, Kyoko, Tweet, Kawaii, Dragon, Empath, Ranger
Ranger is not particularly because of a TR but more because of a solvey feeling.-
-
DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8144
- Joined: February 4, 2023
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UTC+2