| The Divergent Series | Game Over |

[Keyser Söze]

"Have you ever questioned the nature of your reality?"

Hello, my name is Bernard.
I am the head of the

Divergentworld

Programming Division. I am currently investigating the 19 hosts (robots) of Divergentworld, to see whether any of them have been affected by the Park Director's recent software upgrade. The head of security has reported that some of the hosts have been "behaving unnaturally". As per my chat with Theresa Cullen (Head of Quality Assurance), any malfunctioning host will be recalled, analyzed and then decommissioned.

Would you like to take a seat?

I have a few questions for you.

[Keyser Söze]

Hello WhemeStar. Did you think momo's vote was serious? Moreover, why do you think he picked you?

[Keyser Söze]

I don't take anything Momo says seriously

It looked to me that you did. I was wondering why you were outraged with momo's vote. I couldn't see how momo's vote was anything but RVS (would momo genuinely think "not voting" is scum-indicative?).

VOTE: Radiant Moonlight

Keep the bandwagons going!

If you were following the band wagon you would be voting me

This is possibly true. Your WhemeStar-wagon was fresh and live: you were online, ready to react to more votes.

Why are you just now voting him?

Does it matter?

Interesting. WhemeStar doesn't feel the need to support his vote with an elaborate explanation.

I think it does. Like you had called his vote bad and didn't vote him and you just have this sudden delayed reaction that he was scum? I don't know if I buy that story.

Both scum and town can make a 'bad vote'. Your accusation about WhemeStar's "delayed" vote feels reachy. I feel like you are pushing this too hard.

VOTE: Nero Cain

This won't go anywhere. Im done.

Instead of trying to dig himself out of a hole, WhemeStar has built a bunker which he refuses to leave. I feel like scum-WhemeStar would have at least tried to clear the air with Ircher - because avoiding to answer a question will just inflame further attention and pressure.

[Keyser Söze]

Wheme wagon was a RVS wagon that nero tried to turn real based on nothing.

That is a good summary Elena.

BTW, I started the wagon on Wheme as an rvs push. Why did people commit to it so hard??? I will be trying to find scum on that wagon??

I am trying to think of an instance where a town-aligned scum-hunter would ask these questions. I unfortunately do not believe the tone.

Also, Not seems very flip floppy, trying to please everyone. First he followed me on wheme and the followed wheme on me. Looks like he wants to please everyone so that he is not lynched.

VOTE: NotMafia

This scum-read feels manufactured too. "flip floppy" at the start of the game on D1 should be null-alignment indicative. I do not believe the sincerity of this seemingly 'forced' scum-read and vote. I will look at association-analysis post-flip (current theory: Not_Mafia bussing momo, momo voting scum-partner?)
Happy to observe for now.


(Post #160) Strange timing for a

null

reads-list Ircher...


I don't know what Nero Cain is doing here:

I do and I will after Elana explains why I shouldn't.

Why are you so against letting Ellana explain their stance?

I will now take a break (at page 7) to run some diagnostic tests.

[Keyser Söze]

Meh, I sorta want a wagon on someone I can easily read.

VOTE: Mehtaph

Do you think people will join this empty page 8 vanity/RVS wagon? Does town/scum-Mehtaph react a certain way to these type of votes?

DAUNTLESS has the potential to be TOWNLESS

DAUNTLESS

Ramcius
Transcend
Keyser Söze
PenguinPower

Hello Creature, please explain how you came to that conclusion? That statement has come out of nowhere.

Btw, Ircher is town, better luck next time, RC.

Please can you express to me what Ircher has said that shouts "town" to you.

Also I will now say this, Creature's refusal to post any content strikes me a bit of. (not full on scummy but of). He clearly is paying attention but it is almost like he does not want to make anything up. Maybe he does not want to get caught in a slip???

Explain to me how you differentiate between tentative-town, and tentative-scum.

[This could be my confirmation-bias speaking] ...but this is the second scum-read (since your Not_Mafia scum-read), that I feel is forced. Are there any other players you think have lacked "content" so far? Would you describe their motivation as scummy?
As a result, I am scum-leaning momo, and null-scum leaning Not_Mafia and Creature by way of association.

It is generally agreed by many people on this site (including Transcend) that I am lynchbait.

I do agree with this statement. Perhaps I need to take a step back.

[Keyser Söze]

(Post #243) zakk's catch-up post fills me with sufficient town-feels. He possesses a voice that seems to pierce threw the fluff and highlight the most pertinent issues.

town reads on screenplay and whemestar btw

Regarding Srceenplay, yes, he has made the 'right' moves so far (I still have trust issues with him though), which I will explore later.

Regarding WhemeStar, yes, I saw his reaction to the early pressure on his slot as

'you got the wrong guy, motherf****rs'

.

I voted RC hydra because RC just posted. Lure them back to the thread. But nah.

Why is getting the RC hydra into the thread one of the most pressing issues for you right now?

[Keyser Söze]

ask me anything

In TwoFaceworld I respected your early VCA.

Do you have any comments on the VC 1.02 (in line with your own reads at this time):

VOTE COUNT 1.02

[4] Nero Cain:

Elena Fisher, Mewtaph, WhemeStar, Keyser Söze,

[3] WhemeStar:

zakk, Nero Cain, Ircher,

[3] momo:

Not_Mafia, Radiant Moonlight, Srceenplay,

[3] Not_Mafia:

Aristophanes, momo, Ramcius,

[1] Radiant Moonlight:

BTD6_maker,

[1] Transcend:

PenguinPower,

[1] zakk:

Creature,

[1] Creature:

Transcend,

NOT VOTING:

alban, rb, shos

[Keyser Söze]

DAUNTLESS has the potential to be TOWNLESS

DAUNTLESS

Ramcius
Transcend
Keyser Söze
PenguinPower

Hello Creature, please explain how you came to that conclusion? That statement has come out of nowhere.

For the record, what I was trying to tin-foil/imply (or some people would say 'reach for') is... please point out which one is your scum-teammate.



Furthermore, why did you vote here:

VOTE: Nero

What made you change your mind on Nero Cain (OR what is your read of Nero Cain now?).

[Keyser Söze]

Transcend are you scum

yea

My preliminary analysis of the above post has the following results:

51% trace of premature town confidence
38% sarcasm
9% reverse WIFOM
1.99% ironic honesty
0.01% scum foreplay

[Keyser Söze]

Your accusation about WhemeStar's "delayed" vote feels reachy

How is it reachy when its what you know actually happened?

Is there a limited window where a player must vote after stating 'suspicion' of a player?
It took WhemeStar only an hour from calling Ircher's vote bad, to actually voting Ircher. I did not see this as suspicious, or an irregular progression of a scum-read.
Why must this be scum-WhemeStar, keeping hold of his vote for 58 minutes, then opportunistically posting his vote (with no tangible reason to do so)?
Are you questioning whether WhemeStar didn't like Ircher's vote in the first place?

[Keyser Söze]

I did not see this as suspicious, or an irregular progression of a scum-read.

Why must I believe the same thing as you?

Are you questioning whether WhemeStar didn't like Ircher's vote in the first place?

I don't think this matters at all.

You

were the person presenting the scum-WhemeStar narrative.

I need to find out

a)

how you got there and/or

b)

why I am wrong.

If you don't believe the same thing as me, you need to convince me to lynch a host who you think is a threat to town.

[Keyser Söze]

Even if it means starting a vanity wagon.

It's early and any wagon can happen, just put your vote into it and maybe someone will join you and bam, a wagon appeared.

Do you think Mewtaph reacts a certain way to RVS/empty/vanity wagons when he is town/scum?

[Keyser Söze]

If you don't believe the same thing as me, you need to convince me to lynch a host who you think is a threat to town.

Do you often use "I don't think the same thing as him so he must be scum." as a scumtell?

A disagreement is not a scum-tell, Nero Cain. Please read again.
I need to find out a)

how you got there

and/or b) why I am wrong.
If you walk me through how you think Whemestar is scum that will strengthen my read on you, and possibly of Whemestar too (if he is infact scum).

[Keyser Söze]

Both scum and town can make a 'bad vote'. Your accusation about WhemeStar's "delayed" vote feels reachy. I feel like you are pushing this too hard.

this is you disagreeing with me. If Wheme was town I don't know why he'd not be voting Ircher the moment he thought Irchers vote made no sense. It was delay, I don't know why and it worries me.

"If Wheme was town I don't know why he'd not be voting Ircher the moment he thought Irchers vote made no sense."

- yes, that is what we disagree on. However, I do not think this is scum-alignment indicative. I have seen many players (even this game) that have stated suspicion on a player, but not followed it up with an immediate vote. WhemeStar took 58 minutes. I don't think this is scummy/suspicious. I have a problem with town-Nero Cain trying to push this as scum indicative ("reachy"), while not applying the same logic on other player's delayed votes.

Interestingly, what is your read of me and Mewtaph? Town defending (scum), or scum defending (scum)?

[Keyser Söze]

If 58 minutes is scummy, I will need to present to you later why I believe this is a suspicious parameter to be holding against players (RE: ''whose delayed vote did I miss?'')

If you felt like this was selective scumhunting on my part why did you not say so when first voting me?

My original point for voting you was that I found the scum-narrative you were trying to paint of WhemeStar was reachy. My suspicion of you has deepened since my initial vote. [My confirmation bias is also saying: I feel like you know I am town too. If someone was defending my #1 scum read I would be more on the offensive foot. At this moment, I feel like you are trying to argue out of a position you know is reachy and not alignment indicative. Not even one slice of OMGUS being expressed yet. At least you are talking to me, you will likely be my strongest t/read or s/read by the end of today.]

I was reading Wheme as scummy from before his delayed vote so its not the whole reason.

Please can you share/express this in full.

vote:Whemestar

Please quote and explain to me in detail why Whemestar was scum at that stage of the game.

[Keyser Söze]

I have seen salty scum just as sweet. I want to get to the bottom of his WhemeStar scum read.

[Keyser Söze]

[4] momo: Not_Mafia, Radiant Moonlight, zakk, Srceenplay,
[3] Nero Cain: Elena Fisher, Mewtaph, Keyser Söze,
[3] Not_Mafia: Aristophanes, momo, Ramcius,
[2] WhemeStar: Nero Cain, Ircher,
[2] Transcend: PenguinPower, WhemeStar,

If I had to join one of these wagons, I guess only Transcend's I would join.

Share with me why you are voting zakk over Transcend.

What didn't you like about zakk's catch-up post?

[Keyser Söze]

I admittedly didn't like his "Uhm look at Keyser????" (unexpected) reaction either, so I can empathize there.

[Keyser Söze]

Why would town not vote their scum read?

It is the point of there being a clock on it.

Tell me what scum-Whemestar had to gain by delaying his vote from say 1 minute to 58 minutes?

Is that really so irregular / suspicious / scummy?

Was an Ircher-wagon even a wagon he could opportunistically join to add momentum?

[Keyser Söze]

Why not.
VOTE: Whemestar

Do you think WhemeStar had justified reason to quick-vote Srceenplay too?

[Keyser Söze]

Note I voted zakk before zakk's 243.

I haven't changed it because it didn't convince me.

[I know this may be an obvious question, but...]
Are those bads feels of zakk

>

bad feels of Transcend? Or equal?


I know we only have one vote, but I'm not sensing your scum-read of Transcend. Show me the suspicion/concern you have.

[Keyser Söze]

Hi. Why not vote zakk?

Anyone is a worthy wagon on D1 (but I personally lean town on zakk so far. As he

interacts with players in real-time

, that read will only strengthen or weaken). I won't be voting him unless I am convinced otherwise.

I wanted to understand the nature and strength of Creature's s/read of zakk versus their s/read of Transcend (a player I have read correctly one game, and incorrectly read in another). I have not seen Creature push either s/read with earnest effort yet, hence my lack of understanding of the sincerity of either read.

[Keyser Söze]

I don't think his reaction was really a town reaction. I'd have expected him to vote Ircher. And its not just that Wheme didn't vote in 41 but he also didn't vote in 43, 45, 48, 51 and 53. My reaction to him finally voting Ircher was that

his scumbuddies told him to vote a scumbuddy

.

Even though this deepens the tin-foil hat conspiracy of your scum-narrative of WhemeStar it is actually making me understand what you are seeing (theorizing).

So you think scum-WhemeStar is being coached through D1?

[Keyser Söze]

[post=Wheme]Wheme[/post]

Bloody spammer. 70+ posts. 3 pages out of 16 are yours.

My priority is to hunt for spammers before hunting for scums

.

Don't you think a replacement is more advisable if you think this is true? Why chase a policy lynch on D1, when the great harvest has already begun?
I will take this as an avoidance to present your scum reads.

[Keyser Söze]

243 doesn't seem AI for you.

Could you please show me some meta-rich scum-zakk connections. I feel like that is your angle (?).

[Keyser Söze]

You vote whemestar
You question him and his actions
You call it an RVS and people voting it are scumy
Then you call wheme and NotMafia scumy
Then you call it RVS again

That's my problem with it.
VOTE: Momo

^^

Hello alban. What did "^^" signifiy?

[Keyser Söze]

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=66557

Could you draw up the points

in your own words

, from scum-zakk that-game, to scum-zakk this-game...
I would appreciate this greatly.

[Keyser Söze]

[post=Wheme]Wheme[/post]

Bloody spammer. 70+ posts. 3 pages out of 16 are yours.

My priority is to hunt for spammers before hunting for scums

.

Don't you think a replacement is more advisable if you think this is true? Why chase a policy lynch on D1, when the great harvest has already begun?
I will take this as an avoidance to present your scum reads.

For the record, I believe

'hate-the-spammer'

is an effective way to hide as scum.
Your passion and emotions can be genuinely real... but it can be used to cover over a lack of purpose in your ISO (the purpose of hunting scum).

That is my concern

.
I want to see that same focus in hunting scum. Otherwise we'll likely get 50 pages of "I'm not spamming" / "spamming is null alignment indicative" / "I'm playing the way I want to play" spiel.

[Keyser Söze]

Still think Nero is town, probably scum's designated muslin he right now

Before you scare people off the Nero Cain wagon, tell me: 1) why Nero Cain is town 2) who are the scum co-ordinating/pushing his miss-lynch, and who are the townies being blindly misled.

Right now it sounds like you know that he is town which makes me want to jump off his wagon immediately.

What are your views of the other leading wagons?

[Keyser Söze]

I'm not really feeling scum!Nero Cain.

Nero Cain likely salty town.

Nero is town

I honestly don't see the Nero!scum case.

p sure all 3 of these are town

I don't like the way keyser is talking to Nero it doesn't feel like he's trying to solve him like he's saying it feels like asking basic questions with barely any input

Nero I'm

leaning

on town

Ok, I am now going to jump off the Nero Cain-wagon (there is enough opposition/town reads of Nero Cain to tell me Nero Cain is not getting lynched today).

UNVOTE: Nero Cain

I feel like what I am seeing as suspicious is not being translated as being scum alignment indicative to the masses (maybe I am reading too much into a 'disagreement of opinion'). I will step out of my tunnel on Nero Cain and push elsewhere, hopefully my suspicions will be resolved later today if not the nightphase.

So Keysor, lets talk more about your vote

My vote was doing nothing. It became a vanity wagon. [At this stage people are convinced you are town, but I will let time convince me].

Why do you think it took him several posts to vote Ircher?

I still believe the 58 minute vote-delay was not indicative of alignment (null). However, if WhemeStar does flip scum, I would then look into the associations of who he has voted/scum-read. I personally don't vote straight away everytime (due to how a scum-read naturally develops, or sometimes I prefer to talk before shooting). Does scum-WhemeStar delay his votes? If you can prove this, this would help to convince me. If you can show me what scum-WhemeStar had to gain by delaying his vote of Ircher, this would also help to change my position on it.

What is your read on Wheme and why?

Not scum reading

. I didn't like his reaction to momo's initial vote, but since then he has won me over by keeping active amidst the eye of scrutiny. He has the largest body of posts so I will likely look at his ISO before the end of D1. I haven't seen anything that shouts SCUM. Neither will I vote for him based on his postcount.

If you can present to me a clear case on scum-WhemeStar (outside of the delayed vote/scum-coaching/spam angles already stated in the thread which I don't think are real)

I will listen

.

[Keyser Söze]

[post=Wheme]Wheme[/post]

Bloody spammer. 70+ posts. 3 pages out of 16 are yours.

My priority is to hunt for spammers before hunting for scums

.

Don't you think a replacement is more advisable if you think this is true? Why chase a policy lynch on D1, when the great harvest has already begun?
I will take this as an avoidance to present your scum reads.

That's highly presumptuous. Why would you think I have not already presented my reads?

If you were referring to your post 275:

Spoiler:

Truckloads of spam. Plz don't post more than 2-3 posts a day.

Apologizing in advanced for misgenders and this list includes the people who have stuck out to me.

Confirmed Town

(From my perspective) (98%-100% Confidence)
Ircher (100%) - Role PM

Likely Town

(85%-97% Confidence)

Leaning Town

(60%-84% Confidence)

Null

(0% - 30% Confidence; No/Very Weak Read)
Not_Mafia (0%) - It's hard to get a read here when he's always goofing off. Even when he does say something relevant, it tends to be an absolute, and he generally refuses to elaborate further.

Neutral

(31%-59% Confidence; Mixed Read)
Momo (+40%) - There have been questionable things tha this slot has said, sure, but it reads as genuine thoughts versus scum trying to manipulate the town. Aka, Momo, for lack of a better description, reads sorta like lynchbait at the moment.
Wheme (-55%) - For me, his attack on me at the beginning was bad, and while forgivable, his unwillingness to provide information and evasion of my question reads as suspicious at a bare minimum.

Leaning Scum

(60%-75% Confidence)

Likely Scum

(76%-100% Confidence)

I need help to sort out this slot. Anyone played with them before? This comes across as a bit naive on one hand, but also scummy on the other. Not sure what to make of it, but this post will serve as a good baseline to sort him later. Whether their behaviour remains the same or not. To clarify on why I find them scummy

viewtopic.php?t=70799&f=23&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go - Here's a scum game of Momo's. He replaced in @ page 72.

viewtopic.php?p=8926674#p8926674 - Here was a game where he replaced in as town. Page 61

You can notice the differences in his play just by opening posts.

Momo could be a scum, but having played a game or two with him, I have noticed that he is universally scumread regardless of his actual role. That itself makes me doubt your reads (though I haven't looked at the threads you have posted). I find you (weakly) suspicious, not for suspecting Momo, but for not acknowledging the fact that he is a lynchbait.

Hi. Can this not be one of those spam games? I don't want to have 50 pages to read tonight.

Hey Creature.

^^

Btw, Ircher is town, better luck next time, RC.

Explain why.

Guys unlike some of you people I am actively trying to solve the game. Not and Nero pushing the Wheme wagon that I meant as rvs strikes me as scummy. Thoughts on this????

Sorry you rolled scum Momo

Wheme, enough of this bull sh*t. Get out of your damn tunnel and start scum hunting.

I would tell you to play to you wincon but your acting as if your wincon is mislynching townies.

Why are Not and Nero scummy for pushing on Wheme wagon, but Wheme is not scum for pushing on yours?

You vote whemestar
You question him and his actions
You call it an RVS and people voting it are scumy
Then you call wheme and NotMafia scumy
Then you call it RVS again

That's my problem with it.
VOTE: Momo

^^

What were you going to do with those reads?

"This comes across as a bit naive on one hand, but also scummy on the other"

(Ircher)

"Momo could be a scum, but having played a game or two with him, I have noticed that he is universally scumread regardless of his actual role."

(momo)

"I find you (weakly) suspicious"

(WhemeStar)

"^^"

(momo)

Were you going to explore any of those issues?

"highly presumptuous"? No.
Justified concern? Yes.
I was just suprised you chose to open up your account with "My priority is to hunt for spammers before hunting for scums"...



Imagine if I'd offered analysis of how more than 3 players were scummy/suspicious, or needed sorting... only to then place an 'activity-based' policy lynch vote on Aristophanes.

Does that look irregular to you?

[Keyser Söze]

can someone explain zakk!scum to me

Yes please. Especially as I have him in my lean-town pile.

oh yeah and i've ssaid nothing alignment indicative in the dauntless pt.

so idk why penguin tr's me.

I unfortunately have no read of PenguinPower and Ramcius (DAUNTLESS MEMBERS).

Is anyone using their faction PT?

I.e are players busy in here, and busy in there... or quiet in here and quiet in there too? There is a block of players who haven't made any ripples or impact in this gamethread so far [PenguinPower, shos, Aristophanes, Ramcius, BTD6_maker].

Looking here next:

momo (sounded like caught scum earlier, insincere tone, people are saying he's today lynchbait... so WIFOM says to stay the f**k away from his wagon. I'd prefer to find reasons for

'momo is town because of x, y and z reasons'

, then being scared off his wagon.)

Creature (gut bad-feels). If Creature flips scum I'd want to go here next (potentially an unnecessary distancing attempt(?)):

DAUNTLESS has the potential to be TOWNLESS

Not_Mafia (convinced that momo and zakk is scum. He's one of the strongest authority voices in the thread (Radiant Moonlight has been suprisingly relatively hands-off so far) pushing for us to lynch his scum-reads but I'm still not town reading him. He's like an unofficial town leader but not dressed with the correct attire. Perhaps I am reading too much into his playstyle?)

[Keyser Söze]

[Set-up spec: there could be up to 5 scum in this set-up. Unless it's 4 groupscum + 1 Serial Killer.]

[Keyser Söze]

I did not take it as serious roleclaim (in theory, now a town-day vig?).
Have you ever seen a SK change alignment during the day-phase/night-phase?

[Keyser Söze]

I did not take it as serious roleclaim (in theory, now a town-day vig?).
Have you ever seen a SK change alignment during the day-phase/night-phase?

*town night-vig

[Keyser Söze]

It will no doubt be resolved N1.

[Keyser Söze]

This will be my next topic of discussion:

The Momo wagon is bad and you guys and gals know it.

Because he has done nothing highly indicative of scum; he's lynchbait at worst.

If I were to resolve this issue before we enter 30 pages into D1, it will be a success.



(A player I have successfully miss-lynched as scum before in a previous version of Divergentworld.)

[Keyser Söze]

Investigation file: momo

BTW, I started the wagon on Wheme as an rvs push. Why did people commit to it so hard??? I will be trying to find scum on that wagon??

My gut-read of this is still negative. The tone feels off. [Something petty: I didn't like his continuous use of multiple/excessive question marks ("??"), but he used them as town in our last game together, so less annoyed with them now]

Also, Not seems very flip floppy, trying to please everyone. First he followed me on wheme and the followed wheme on me. Looks like he wants to please everyone so that he is not lynched.

I personally don't read flip-flopping behaviour as scum indicative during early/RVS D1 play. But ok, I can see why someone would scum-read that behaviour in isolation.

Okay momo is scum we can speed lynch this

Even more proof for my case....

Ok, potentially OMGUS-fueled reaction to Not_Mafia's wagon-pushing.

Can somebody please tell me their thoughts on the case on Not??

It seems more solid than the nero one to me....

momo is confident on his Not_Mafia scum-case ranking it more solid than the scum-case on Nero Cain! Is this town-momo taking pride in his own scum-case on a player?

Where is the town???????

Guys unlike some of you people I am actively trying to solve the game. Not and Nero pushing the Wheme wagon that I meant as rvs strikes me as scummy. Thoughts on this????

Real or false frustration?

At the time of reading I thought all of this was scum-theatre (scum-distancing gone wrong).

I would tell you to play to you wincon but your acting as if your wincon is mislynching townies.

Again, I don't believe the tone/sincerity of this post.

Happy??????

F U guys.

It is generally agreed by many people on this site (including Transcend) that I am lynchbait. So be smart and see past it...

Ok, the

'frustrated' element of his play is now raging up to boiling point

.

VOTE: alban

alban just GAVE AN EXCUSE for mislynching townies

99% scum

"99% scum"? - I don't know about that. Alban did made a questionable decision to hunt for spammers rather then scum, but that is not a "99%" slam-dunk scum-catch.

What happened to your scum-feels on Not_Mafia, Nero Cain and Creature? (still strong?)



Thus, going back to Ircher's two statements:

"The Momo wagon is bad and you guys and gals know it" and "Because he has done nothing highly indicative of scum; he's lynchbait at worst"

...
True, I cannot find anything "highly indicative of scum". Most of my suspicion lies in the fact that I don't believe the tone of his posts as from a townie. momo has been pressuring/questioning players that I too do not town read (Not_Mafia, Nero Cain, Creature, alban), so perhaps my scum-theatre theory is making me blind to momo's actual reads (which are actually similar to mine, if not for the same reasons).

Re-reading his ISO, he doesn't look CAUGHT-SCUM anymore

. My remaining concern is:

is this 'frustrated townie' or 'fake-frustrated'?

QUESTIONS:

1) Has anyone seen TOWN-momo become this frustated before? (Even citing his own town-meta as a defence of being easy lynchbait).
2) Do you think momo taking pride in his Not_Mafia scum-case is alignment indicative? I.e is town-momo more likely to get disheartened if no-one is listening to him?

[Keyser Söze]

Hello, Aristophanes.

Your vote is still in RVS

. Are you trying to sort players in your faction PT?


You have offered two (town?) reads so far (two defences).

On momo:

Because I've never not scumread him, which gives me pause when a wagon on him grown like this!

And WhemeStar:

This where's tar fellow is clearly town tho. Why is this a wagon?

What are your actual thoughts on the arguments used against them? (Your thoughts on them concern only the speed/size of the wagon on them).

[Keyser Söze]

Is 'alban' the 'Yume' in this scenario?

There were 2 votes on alban... momo added the third (Wheme and Ircher have since unvoted alban).

[Keyser Söze]

our hood is like 3 pages of Titus yelling that she's right, RC claiming scum, me wanting to slam dunk Key and RB being "v/la".

It's time to gut that PT and share those thoughts, please.

Because that hydra isn't adding signatures to their posts it is hard to connect their thoughts-reads-votes.

[I think one head t/reads me, the other s/reads me...? I want some ownership.]

I wouldn't call it active lurking, but they aren't dominating as I thought they would with two strong voices (they are whispering).

[Keyser Söze]

Investigation file: momo

Thank you for your answers and contributions.

Srceenplay presents a black and white argument:

So as town, concedes.
As scum throws attention somewhere else.

[In this scum narative momo threw attention on Not_Mafia, and then alban.]

I haven't seen scum!momo get this frustated either.

Also, frustrated town usually doesn't mean to look frustrated.

Are you saying this is town-momo? Or is it null-frustrated?

Srceenplay reinforces his read:

I don't see it as genuine frustration.
His self meta as lynchbait comes across as an excuse.

I have not liked momo's tone from the beginning so I empathize about not buying the 'self meta defence'.

It's a better question to ask why momo is frustrated.

So why do YOU think momo is frustrated?

More self-meta from momo:

This is self meta but I have been mislynched so many times I just get frustrated by the possibility. Like I can't always be scum people

Ircher enters the fray. It was his actual defence of momo that made me challenge my own scum read of momo, so it is interesting to see Ircher now re-evaluate his position on momo:

Spoiler:

Weak post w/ exaggerated concern about Wheme wagon and a questionable attack on Not_Mafia --> Suspicious (-1)

gut says there's something off about this tunnel you are pursuing. --> Suspicious (-1)

1. Lots of confirmation bias
2. Very little and usually weak explanations for reads
3. Though never a reliable tell, it feels "Too scummy to be scum".

Undecided still. Minor scumlean.

Thus, it sounds like Ircher is now where I am

after looking at momo's posts more closely

. There are mixed reads in his analysis, some factors point to town-behaviour, and some point to scum.

Anyway, Wheme started reacting a bit scummy so I questioned him.
Then it suddenly became a huge deal and it looked like an early lynch was a possibility.
I stopped then because short D1 mislynch is never good for town.
Better safe than sorry.
Nero and Not seemed TOO eager.

I didn't like Nero Cain's reasons to scum read WhemeStar, but did you honestly think they could have "miss-lynched" him within the first few pages of the game?
You called Whemestar's possible lynch a "misslynch" - is your town read of WhemeStar that strong?

I genuinely thought you guys wanted a lynch instead of pressure.

What do you think of Nero's push on Keyser Not??

Why is Nero Cain not allowed to push my lynch?
Do you have a strong town read of me?

You are pushing for a lynch so hard.

What do you think will happen when Player A has been pushing a miss-lynch all day (tunnel pressure, but not actually trying to sort that slot? or weigh up motivation/tone?).
Will Player A escape attention from a vig-kill, reflex-lynch, night-investigation?


If alban is 99% scum...

VOTE: alban
99% scum

Is Not_Mafia 100% scum?

He claimed scum!!!
He is scum!!!!

VOTE: Not_Mafia

Today will probably be the last day I spend time looking at momo closely, so I hope to sort momo in the next 12 hours. [Even if you scum read me, can you please take your read of me outside of your opinion of momo, I would like to hear your open thoughts.]

QUESTIONS:

1) Is momo jumping very deep into each of his scum reads alignment indicative?
2) Does anyone see his play as

exaggerated-scum-theatre

? Or as a passionate townie with strong town/scum reads?
3) Do you buy momo believing Not_Mafia and Nero Cain could have 'miss-lynched' WhemeStar at the beginning of the game?
4) Would his flip tell us anything about the players pushing him/fence-sitting/ignoring his slot?

[Keyser Söze]

Please do not bring my ex-wife into discussion. I want to keep my investigation strictly professional.

[Keyser Söze]

keyser, Zakk, RB are my preferred lynches

Please explain to me scum-zakk in full.

Why rb? Why not get that slot replaced? (he is yet to make a single post). You know that is an unlikely lynch.



What happened to your WhemeStar scum read?

Spoiler: All your scum-theory on Whemestar

vote:Whemestar

his buddies

I think it does. Like you had called his vote bad and didn't vote him and you just have this sudden delayed reaction that he was scum? I don't know if I buy that story.

I do not like lynching town and I am not scum. I think your play has been really odd and your stance that you should be town read is beyond me.

Why not explain why Wheme is town.

Why is is scummy for me to scumread Wheme when you aren't?

this is you disagreeing with me. If Wheme was town I don't know why he'd not be voting Ircher the moment he thought Irchers vote made no sense. It was delay, I don't know why and it worries me.

I have been scum reading their play as odd/weird/whatever adjective you want to use

What do you think of me finding that you weren't voting Ircher right off the bat to be scummy?

I was reading Wheme as scummy from before his delayed vote so its not the whole reason.

I just don't understand why ppl think I should not think his delayed vote could come from scum.

If Wheme was scumreading Ircher then I'm not seeing why he'd not vote unless you buy into

like these reactions seem p horrible. That's what I was scumreading him for.

then his delayed vote on Ircher gave me bad vibes.

Why would town not vote their scum read?

What Wheme wants us to believe is that the reason that he did not vote Ircher right off the bat is b/c he was worried about being scum read and I dunno if I buy into that.

So you are buying into his being afraid to vote Ircher b/c he didn't want to get scumread?

I don't think his reaction was really a town reaction. I'd have expected him to vote Ircher. And its not just that Wheme didn't vote in 41 but he also didn't vote in 43, 45, 48, 51 and 53. My reaction to him finally voting Ircher was that his scumbuddies told him to vote a scumbuddy.

@Wheme, Like your play doesn't really make a ton of sense to me as town. I thought your reactions to getting waggoned were silly and your delayed Ircher vote doesn't make much sense.

Can you explain all his behaviour as coming from a townie now?

Please share with me what changed.

[Keyser Söze]

Why should I want that replaced instead of putting pressure on it?

A lynch on rb would give us no information. Even my lynch would prove to be more optimal, based on 'information'.
There are over 10 active players where our vote/lynch is better served. They can react/respond to pressure and our questions

in real time

.
I would prefer a replacement if that slot won't be providing any content for the next 3-5 days, not a lynch.

no. I don't think that I Wheme or Momo make sense as pro-town play. I might just be a little worried tha those two are low hanging frruit/bad town.

I would not disagree with this comment. That is why I wanted to sort momo ASAP, to stop us talking about him for the next 11 days (his slot is easy to talk about, while other slots can escape our attention).

[Keyser Söze]

I like playing with new players so I hope BTD6_maker can prove to be a force for the Allegiant (but I think if he has made no post by the 11th, a replacement is needed. Then his replacement has adequate time to catch-up with the game. We are already approaching 30 pages).
In regard rb, please give him a firm semi-penetrable nudge.

[Keyser Söze]

If I end the day with no scum reads/null scum leans and we are faced with a NO LYNCH, I would support a rb lynch.
At this stage he is not under consideration for a lynch. Perhaps an activity-based vote if you had no other leads.

[Keyser Söze]

Outting the faction powers is a fine idea because scum most likely have one in each to start and if they don't they can just move there to see what the power is

Dauntless will release an official statement regarding this matter within the next 48 hours.

[Keyser Söze]

guys, just b/c I had some doubt about RB doesn't mean we are lynching him. Why are ya'll so up in arms about me expressing my suspicion?

You expressed the 3 players you wanted lynched.

Me.
zakk, who I need convincing on.
rb, who is yet to post.


You didn't list the player you had the biggest scum-case on (WhemeStar).

[Keyser Söze]

Aren't we staying in our own factions to keep the scum locked in?

[Keyser Söze]

You didn't list the player you had the biggest scum-case on (WhemeStar).

so? You thought my case on him was bad and that he was a mislynch. Shouldn't you be glad that I'm rethinking?

The end read is meaningless. It is how you got there, that is what makes the difference. Now I need to evaluate if I think you actually believed what you were saying. I.e was the scum read real or manufactured? What made you change from 'WhemeStar is scum' to 'WhemeStar is bad town'... if I recognise a natural progression that is good news for you.

[Keyser Söze]

If it doesn't aid in scumhunting then it shouldn't be done IMO. I reject the notion that outting said serums will help town "plan". Assuming that scum are not in all hoods and thus do not know all the serums then by not outting them we deny the scum team that information until d2. That's enough for me to not want to out them.

Yes - this is both the pro-town, and the right decision

for D1

.
I suggest we stick to our factions too (thus, if there is an all-town faction, our PR's are hidden and protected).
And that is enough talk about the serums for now.

[Keyser Söze]

I dare you to lynch me. Find 10 people who will vote for me.

I will make it easy for you. I am not gonna provide any more content over the weekend. If you find enough number of people against me, I will have to leave. Let's see what you call it, if not a PL.

I was willing to vote for you until this melodramatic challenge.

[I.e even though the posts you have contributed so far do NOT instil in me any confident town-feels, you suprisingly possess this 'town'-righteous-indignation: the shock that someone is scum reading you right now. However, I need to see pro-active sorting from you].

[Keyser Söze]

don't lynch creature

Ramcius is cool and town

Were you going to add reasons to these reads?

[Keyser Söze]

I am currently on VLA but I will be able to contribute catch-up notes and short/concise reads this evening.

[Keyser Söze]

Objective: highlight alignment indicative observations

Transcend calls himself "detached" from this game. I agree here. Usually his reads and cutting analysis is more in-the-action and direct. He has chosen to take a step back this game: fearless/bold play missing [would not vote/lynch D1, but a more serious/closer look is required D2. My initial conclusion is he's doing it for survival purposes: but from the town perspective. Hiding-Transcend would place a target on scum-Transcend's back for N1]. One of the few players who also does not scum read zakk.

Unsure on Creature's PowerPenguin wagon vote. He states it feels bad, and says it looks bad. [Concern: is Creature just wagon pushing for the sake of a lynch, or pushing wagons to truly sort players? I want to believe and see that Creature s/reads a player and commits there (not just with votes but with words)]

(Side note: Many people keep calling zakk scum but I have not seen a clear case on him so far.)

Not_Mafia expresses a sentence I wouldn't normally associate with cautious scum: "All of Ramcius' votes have been terrible". [WIFOM dictates I see this coming from a town perspective].

rb is putting up a solid act. He's adding filler/self-meta posts to support that 'act' too. It is a persona which I would not usually jump to vote/lynch as it is very open: "open" not in terms of deep analysis, but freeness of mind [also referred as: 'town as per tone']. The good thing about this playstyle is that after one trip or slip, he will be easy to lynch, without any heavy resistance.

In regard shos: so far I've seen traces of his town-meta (hating spam-filled, long/exhaustive D1's, he wants the day over ASAP). I incorrectly scum read his behaviour in a previous game of trying to push a lynch without committing any substantial 'case'. I'm not going to scum read him here. However, I won't be t/reading this non-committal playstyle either (which I'm sure s/shos would have no problem imitating). [A player to sort N1/D2, NOT D1 unless you want to force an early roleclaim out of him]. I would understand players s/reading his playstyle.

Mewtaph needs to explain that page 42 t/read of LilUziVert (PP replacement slot).



(5 more pages)

[Keyser Söze]

Two missing observations I failed to post earlier:

rb continues to talk about his own scum-hunting town meta. I usually don't like this behaviour but I am becoming very fond of this character.

Mewtaph offers the first reason to suspect zakk (exclusive of "gut"): for portraying "false bravado". [I still don't see it but I can see why Mewtaph didn't believe zakk's 'votes for me are better than votes on 1-vote wagons', so no sinister jump from Mewtaph here].



Now my consolidation on my reads (and vote):

Thoughts on WhemeStar:
- Demonstrated no hesitation to share his reads and make votes
- Shown an ongoing internal debate over momo (even going to the effort of digging up momo's previous games, something I haven't even looked at yet)
- has been happy to openly sheep a player (Nero Cain)
- maintained single-line posting style
- his voting doesn't seem opportunistic: some of his votes have gone against the grind. I wouldn't call them vanity as he's freely moved his vote around his null/scum reads.

But if there is one thing that WhemeStar does need to explore and share in detail given the VC is this:
"Woahhh guys I have a ground breaking discovery
Momo is town"


WhemeStar [Null town lean, would not lynch D1]

[Keyser Söze]

Thoughts on alban:

- Initial focus on spam-level and two nullish reads on Ircher and momo
- instead of sorting/voting either alban makes one of the worst votes of the game on WhemeStar (why spam-hunt over scum-hunt?)
- did not vote his "suspicions" (momo, keyser)
- Alban's reaction to Ramcius' pressure/scrutiny felt town-like (frustration fused with OMGUS).
- Since that town-read, Alban has not been an active/scum-hunting presence.
- I want more details on: "Townreading Creature for something he said on our faction's chat."
- Alban says he hates D1s: does this explain his non-presence on D1, and the resistance to actually push the players he finds suspicious? Alban's only real push was the OMGUS-fuelled counter-attack on Ramcius.
- Alban has not gone into more detail in regard scum-Ramcius. Alban presented a bulletpoint/passionate scum case on Ramcius but has since not encouraged people to join him on lynching 'scum'.

Bottom line: I am not happy with Alban's scum-hunting D1 performance. Alban's defence is 'I don't do Day One's'...

Here is Alban's defence in summary:

I dare you to lynch me. Find 10 people who will vote for me.

I will make it easy for you. I am not gonna provide any more content over the weekend. If you find enough number of people against me, I will have to leave. Let's see what you call it, if not a PL.

Alban knows we can't force a solid 'scum' lynch on him. We'd be lynching him on 1) his lack of content 2) Day 1 avoidance 3) pushing a spam-lynch instead of a scum-lynch.

[Keyser Söze]

Please can momo roleclaim now (not quickhammered 48 hours before deadline).

I am sure Keyen will give us a 24 hour extension too.

[Keyser Söze]

VOTE: Srceenplay

[Keyser Söze]

don't rush the day pls. let everyone catch up and give input - there could be more night results or serum results - i think every faction has a serum? just wait pls

We have time - this is the pro-town play for now:

UNVOTE: Srceenplay

[Keyser Söze]

Did you preform one action or two last night Screen?

1

That is not possible.

[Keyser Söze]

Keyser's setup spec makes me wonder...

Setup speculation is null alignment indicative.
Do not let the desperate scum agenda distract us from the task at hand.
Lynching GUILTY mafia.

[Keyser Söze]

I will now be building up a consolidated reads-list by:
- re-reading D2 and D3.
- analysing the ISO's of flipped-scum.


So, firstly, re-reading D2...

End of Day 1 to Day 2 re-read.

momo lays down the L-1 on Ari.
Ircher lambasts momo, calling him "survivalistic" (mafia-mafia scum-theatre? Or is this Ircher spewing momo as town?)
Nero Cain calls Icher's late vote on Ari as from "scum". (WIFOM dictates Nero did not know Ari was scum).
Nero Cain thought RM/shos were scum pre-Ari flip (did he see it as RM bussing Ari?).
momo correctly notices Ircher's attempt to pocket RM.
Nero Cain smells like he's suffering from confirmaion-bias.

zakk wants to put on record he found the Not_Mafia suprising, and that he t/reads both Ircher and Mewtaph (not clever scum-play if mafia, WIFOM dictates not-mafiascum).

Part-agree with Lil Uzi Vert's point: I think for the four players who moved factions, it was more "personality" indicative (versus blatent groupscum-motivation).

Creature reveals he joined "Abnegation because Ircher requested". (that is not how you distance your scum-partner).

Mafia-rb does NOT say this about his mafia-partner, Ircher:

hypothetical: creature + nero are both scum and knew they could swap places? erudite has vigilante right? maybe they want to make sure they control it, and

creature didn't want to downturn ircher's request because it might look bad

?

WIFOM: Mafia-shos does not try to de-rail the wagon on GUILTY-Mafia-Srceenplay to lynch RM. Shos even says: "I think this suggests screenplay is town."

Does mafia-Srceenplay choose his mafia-teammate to provide a fake/real investigation result? I can't see it. Better to choose a player who is not aligned with you (and a correct result: otherwise both parties end up being f****d after a flip.)

Srceenplay is going down, he lists his scum-reads: "Momo, Zakk, Neo" [NOTED for later]

shos is really fighting against the Sreenplay lynch:

"probably start unvoting screenplay, I think. Considering what happened in Candor last night, I think our lynch today should be between Nero Cain and RM."

(I don't see this as reverse-WIFOM from a mafia teammate).

Again, a bad post by momo:

hard scumread shos right now.

When screenplay flips scum, we lynch shos.

Any objections????

Ircher objects to momo's sugestion to lynch shos after a Srceenplay scum-flip.



SUMMARY:

Strong to medium not-mafia feels:

Ramcius (PT-related, had time to sabotage the guilty-Srceenplay investigation. The most vocal voice in the PT. Two solid s/reads.)
Lil Uzi Vert (PT-related, had time to sabotage the guilty-Srceenplay investigation. Not a strong t/read presence in thread though.)
rb (town by tone, a vocal leader I would follow. Enough town-paranoia to not suspect him)
shos (town by play, decisions, meta. Some very convincing tin-foil hat theories too, I see coming from town)
Nero Cain (I see confirmation-bias fueled scope)

Moderate to low not-mafia feels:

momo (part of me sees momo as D1 lynchbait / the counter-wagon to Ari on D1)
zakk
WhemeStar
Creature


NO NOTES:
alban
BTD6_maker

[Keyser Söze]

oh keyser? They haven't had enough content for me to feel good about it, some ideas about them being 3rd P were thrown around that made sense on the surface but I'm not so sure.

I have been playing a balancing game of

'not-wanting-too-much-towncred'

and

'I-don't-want-to-be-lynched'

so your suspicion is rational.

As we are now down to the last two scum [1xMAFIA + 1xSERIAL KILLER (?)] I will now be increasing my activity.

[Keyser Söze]

Should the (town) vig roleclaim now or later?

[Keyser Söze]

Lynch one of the following tomorrow: {Uzi, Keyser, Transcend, rb}.

Why doesn't mafia-Ircher put his mafia teammate in this list?


Transcend flipped town.
rb is one of my strongest t/reads.
Mafia-Uzi didn't need to vote to FOLLOW mafia-Srceenplay in the PT (or at least he could have told him not to move N1). Is this one big gambit (that hasn't really given Uzi out-right IC-level town-cred status). Nah, not buying it.


We must see Icher's reads-list as frantic desperate/WIFOM posting:

Creature and Mewtaph are definitely town.
Wheme, momo, and Ramcius are probably town.
Keyser is lurking and more likely to be scum.
Zakk is town.
Alban is Neutral Scum.
Uzi is Neutral Scum.
Shos is possibly scum.
Rb is scum.

Transcend is scum
Nero is possibly town.
BTD6 is null.

[Need to re-look at Ircher's ISO to see if he treated his s/reads as scum.]

[Keyser Söze]

Also, due to how Screenplay died, this also strongly points to there NOT being scum among Lil Uzi Vert, Keyser, and Ramcius

Yes, Ramcius and LUV would be two of the last players I would lynch if we were hunting "mafia" scum. I felt our faction was "mafia"-free after N1/D2's events [obviously they are not town cleared though].

Oh also, creature joined Abnegation "because ircher asked him to"... he would hardly need to do that if they were scum buddies and could already talk. Unless this is total WIFOM territory, I'd (grudgingly) say he's probably town for it.

That's how I unfortunately read it too in my catch-up.

Should the (town) vig roleclaim now or later?

rb said that the vig was factional. Erudite.

So we're only dealing with 1 or 2 more groupscum now? (before I start writing off people off being scum for association/VCA reasons.)

Do we have any night-kills unaccounted for?

[Keyser Söze]

Wait Keyser how do you know there's only one groupscum left?

Based on a balanced set-up there shouldn't be more than 5 scum.

3 flipped mafia.
2 night-kills per night.
1 group scum faction left (presumably mafia)

The other kill can't be mafia (one factional NK PLUS a night-vig is too OP).

Thus, either 3rd party/SK (if no vig owns up to the two town NK's)

[Keyser Söze]

Please claim your kill please (vig/factional):

Not_Mafia, Town Doctor (Andrew Prior), was killed Night One!

Radiant Moonlight (Titus + Radiant Cowbells), Town Friendly Neighbor (Christina), was killed Night Two!
Elena Fisher, Town Factional Observer (Tori Wu), was killed Night Two!

Transcend, Vanilla Townie (Matthew), was killed Night Three!
Mewtaph, Vanilla Townie (Johanna Reyes), was killed Night Three!


[I want clarity before we start wasting time SK-hunting/'other scum'-hunting...]
If we're hunting mafia, I want us to hunt mafia and stay focused (yesterday I felt Ircher was trying to push the mafia-agenda of pushing the SK-lynch over group-scum).

[Keyser Söze]

Perhaps mafia (Ircher) was trying to PR-fish D3 (vigilante, roleblocker, jailkeeper, bulletproof etc)... Ircher knew he was f****d with that guilty investigation.


Nevertheless,

I'm going to continue to hunt "mafia" scum in my re-read.

BTD6_maker and alban basically need to solve the game in their next 30-50 posts (no one should be reading them 'NOT mafia' right now).

so it's safe to say any vig is probably 1 shot (in which case he should probably still not claim, tbh)

I'd agree here - the 'vig' would carry some serious town-cred (a player you want alive in MYLO/LYLO) so he's best hidden now as a (VT?).

[Keyser Söze]

@Creature
@WhemeStar

If we are hunting 'mafia' scum, IMO everyone from Dauntless is off the menu for today.

If you can make a case for them being 3rd Party / other scum / SK, convince me.

If you can make a case for them needlessly bussing their teammate, convince me.

[Keyser Söze]

key, who makes sense as scum on a team with Ari, screenplay and ircher?

I should be able to give a firm answer to this question after my catch-up (and

after

the alban and BTD6_maker slots have contributed thoroughly. From early reading they are currently in a dangerous position as per PoE).

How hard LUV pushed scum lynch?

I will look at LUV's interactions with the 3 flipped mafia scum soon.
LUV was the one who hammer-voted the FOLLOW investigation on Srceenplay in the The Dauntless Faction. LUV could have just lurked out and missed the deadline, or told his scum teammate that he was going to be investigated.

What does mafia-LUV get out of this? He needlessly kills one of his powerful teammates for what gain?
It's only me defending him on D4.
He doesn't have much town-cred from the majority of the players.

[That's where I am with LUV. That FOLLOW vote has kind of made me biased against the idea of MAFIA-LUV.

But I will re-read his ISO later though

].

The reasons for scumreading Keyser are plenty including his crazy push on me(when I was the counterwagon to scum!ari), flip flopping of reads, his over try hardness, and then saying that he was trying not to get too much town cred when that was all he was doing.

"Crazy push"?

I was trying to sort you and ask other people's opinion. Your actions this game (and previous games) are very hard to read. Instead of asking myself: would a townie do this? I ask: would town-momo do this?
In the end I didn't want you quick-lynched D1 because of your frustated tone (AtE). Instead I wanted you to roleclaim (which I had faith was going to give you breathing space).

"flip flopping of reads"

?
I think my reads have been good so far - I have suspected and town-read the correct core of players.

"over try hardness"?

This is not alignment indicative. I enjoy playing forum mafia and try to over-kill my delivery by keeping it fun and interesting for myself.

The whole case file thing, the bold and underline sorting of everyone, Keyser just does not play like that.

Using

bold

or

underlining

is not scum alignment indicative. I use them to emphasize and

highlight

my main queries and points in an effective manner. You should not be awarding me town points or scum points for my playstyle (they are easy to imitate regardless of alignment).

[Keyser Söze]

Can the vigging faction claim night actions and elaborate on any discussion that had taken place prior to them?

Good point - town 'due diligence':
- who suggested/pushed the vig kills on town?
- did anyone oppose a vig-shot on flipped-mafia? (i.e Aris, Srceenplay, Ircher)

[Keyser Söze]

Aristophanes re-read:

Why are not-momo votes a thing?

Because I've never not scumread him, which gives me pause when a wagon on him grown like this!

I read this as Aristophanes trying to slow down the momo wagon. At this stage of the game: is he doing it to gain town-ced if momo flips town, or protecting his lynch-biat scum partner? I'd actually slightly lean the town-cred theory (but it's not a stong lean).

This where's tar fellow is clearly town tho. Why is this a wagon?

This is more like it. Aris hard-defending WhemeStar (strongly opposing a WhemeStar wagon). I don't see Aris defending his mafia teammate this blindly in plain-sight.

tl;dr, momo is scum

Well that was easy then! XD
Anyone else it just Momo?
And was it a slip or a Gameplay read?

Aris doesn't take the momo scum read seriously.

Vut your vote isn't on Keyser...and he doesn't seem scummy...

What are you even doing with this post?

Aris defending me for no reason (early wagons are good on D1)... I'll let you decide if this is a scum partner chainsaw defending his partner or not.

Momo is a tough read and I legit always scumread them. Momo was more a moment of pause, but the more i read the morning ei think they may be scum.

The momo wagon has picked up traction, it sounds like Aris has opened up to lynching momo now...

Now some juicy association theory from scum:

435 sucks ass, and makes it obvious Alban and Momo aren't scum together. Either could be though, and from what I have read of Alban, as much as they could be, I done think they are. Momo is far more likely to be scum.

This feels like Aris lining up lynches IMO.
Let's see how Aris progresses his suspicion on both momo and alban.

What are your thoughts on the Zakk and Momo wagons, and if you dislike them, who among the voters do you think are scum?
What are your thoughts on Creature's potential intent to shut down the wagons and start fresh ones?

More name-dropping. Aris wants are attention on momo/zakk/Creature now.

Votes the PP slot (LUV) for lurker reasons.

So, hard town on Zakk, Momo is what, null? What makes you so willing to lynch him regardless of alignment?

Aris has already expressed his mixed feelings and suspicion on momo - why is he questioning WhemeStar's here?

Now, Aris' D1 activity has been lagging and he shown no sign of pro-active sorting. Someone asks for his scum reads. What names does he choose?

Momo, LUV, and Nero.

I would normally suspect for scum to name-drop at least one of their scum-partners in that situation + two players already being suspected.

Votes momo.

I am bored.

Oops didn't mean to say that out aloud.

I feel like the former was meant for a scum pt and the latter was a cover-up for the mistake.

VOTE: Alban

Ah, I forgot all about this. This is where Aris flaggs Alban's supposed "scum slip". Now, why does scum-Aris choose to flag his teammate's scum-slip?

Aris thinks his wagon was the counter wagon to scum-momo's.

Aris posts extensive scum-case on momo:

"I'll likely end up voting here, but I want to look at everything else first."

Aris posts further thoughts on Alban (is this him atalking about his team-mate?):

Alban isn't worth quoting, but he's been contradictory in this game. First he complains about post counts, claims people are spamming, and even votes Wheme for being active. Then he changes tune, to note the lack of wagons (without actually making a push himself) and complaining he's bored.
The Ramiscus OMGUS is ugly and his OMGUS on me is likewise disgusting. And his "come at me bro" mentality is just weird.

The slip I noted may not be a slip, but this sloot is still not doing much but complain, OMGUS, and make empty posts.

How many of these points are actually scum-alignment indicative?

Aris then votes momo...

So here we have Aris juggling between the momo wagon and the Alban wagon. I.e two miss-lynch wagons, OR miss-lynch wagon versus scum-distancing wagon?

Now can we please focus on the real scum: Momo!

What happened with scum:alban?

Conclusion:

There are alot of players Aris did not talk about or interact with.
Reading through Aristophanes' ISO has made me want to take another look at alban and momo (the two slots he spent most of his D1 focus and posts on). The way he dropped his alban scum-case/scum-read looks bad for alban.
momo's name continues to pop up. Were we lucky on D1 by having two leading wagons on scum? Or was momo the counter wagon to Aris'

lynch-out-of-nowhere

? The

VC 1.28

would suggest that:

VOTE COUNT

VOTE COUNT 1.28

[L-3]

Aristophanes

:

alban, Creature,

Radiant Moonlight

,

Transcend

, rb, WhemeStar, Ramcius,

Not_Mafia

,

[6] momo:

Srceenplay

, Lil Uzi Vert, shos, zakk,

Mewtaph

,

Aristophanes

Someone else read-through Aris' ISO - do you come to the same conclusions?

Will read through Srceenplay and Ircher next.

[Keyser Söze]

Keyser makes the same type of posts as scum or town so I'd rather just have him gone

Have me as

null

then (based on meta reasons).
I don't understand it if you're scum-reading me.



Do you have any tangible scum-reads?
Have you re-read Days 1-3 / VCA / flipped scum ISO's?

[Keyser Söze]

replace me out, done with mafia for a while

This is sad news.
Good luck brother.
If you were town you were having a great game.
If you were scum you were having an amazing game.

[Keyser Söze]

After having a skim of alban's ISO:

I basically don't want anymore defensive/evasive/OMGUS/aggresive/PR-roleclaim-threat type posts from the alban slot.

(I have seen this tactic been used to deflect attention away from a scum-slot before).

I want their sole focus to be solving the game pro-actively now.

[Keyser Söze]

question is: does mafia takes gamble to swap their killing member with RM N1 instead of making someone else to do kill and having Srceen as conf investigative role and pretty much lynch immune for quite a while? Assuming Ircher said true about swapping RM and Srceen N1. That's quite a bit of WIFOM, so i prefer not lynch them now, cause we have better candidates.

Interesting: yes, why doesn't mafia-LUV/mafia-Ramcius tell their mafia teammate (Srceenplay) to only use their investigation power N1, and to NOT carry out the factional NK too?

Our faction FOLLOWER investigation result would have been:

'The Dauntless Faction followed Srceenplay. Srceenplay's action was investigate'.

We'd basically have left him alone for the rest of the game until LYLO (that would have been optimal mafia-play, instead of needlessly bussing him).

These are more reasons to doubt the presence of 'mafia' scum in the The Dauntless Faction.

So, what is this?:

A) bad scum-play
B) extreme WIFOM-play

Neither for me. I go for the easy reason:

C) both likely not mafia

[Keyser Söze]

idk why nobody in Dauntless is being NKed.

Is this supposed to be a town-slip?

[Keyser Söze]

RE: Ircher-zakk

Was there a reason why Ircher kept flipping his read on zakk?:

FROM SCUM

Zakk is by far the superior lynch due to the fact that he's only here at the most convenient of times and is non*entity elsewise.

VOTE: Zakk

TO TOWN

UNVOTE:

I townread everyone posting there, including Zakk.

Zakk's town.

TO MAYBE

It cold be biased town. That's a possibility. But, the way he is going about it makes me think he might b scum.

Pedit: I need to do some research reads-wise. Zakk feels town in the PT but doesn't feel the same as in Adventure mafia though not significantly differently.

TO TOWN

Zakk is town.

Is there anthing in the PT to explain these shifts of reads?

[Keyser Söze]

RE: Ircher-zakk

Was there a reason why Ircher kept flipping his read on zakk?

actually, yeah.

creature should be able to confirm

as he's in abnegation now:

i asked everyone in there to help make my wagon bigger so we could see who hopped on.
i'm a little hazy on the details now but basically, i told them all they should vote for me, or at least express suspicion of me

come back to it now, and it makes the "how did you know there's a bus driver zakk?" comment from ircher look even more like he's not scum with me, because that'd DEFINITELY not be something a scumbuddy would rat another one out for.

actually this probably entirely clears me, at least in my mind.

OK - this does explain Ircher's sharp shift of read on you. At first glance it looked to me as if he was jumping off as if his scum-distance attempt had gone awry (your D1 wagon had picked up considerable momentum, then Ircher inexplicably unvoted, announcing you as town).

[Keyser Söze]

I claim compulsive bus driver.

I targeted RM and Srceen N1 and Creature and Momo N2.

okay i totally missed this post. this makes so much more clear now.

there's absolutely NO reason to target screenplay unless you KNEW he'd be a target, and since after RM pushing through the D1 lynch they thought they could kill two birds with one stone by hoping everyone copping / rolecopping RM would get a "scum" or "neapolitan" result from screenplay, it makes perfect sense to try to set up RM as having bussed Aris D1 for massive town cred. This also makes sense as to why they didn't kill him N1 and waited until N2.

ALSO. i think the only reason he claimed this (thereby revealing the probability of a is because he knew if anyone else had targeted him for more info (which he may have thought was likely) that he didn't want to get caught fakeclaiming, because a claim is supposed to save you, not damn you... and also, in every good lie there is a bit of truth, etc. so yeah he probably just inadvertently straight up ADMITTED there's a mole in the faction

so yea in my mind there is basically GUARANTEED a mole inside of Dauntless now.

@everyone: read this post

Can you please illustrate this one further time in bulletproof format.
It could potentially be the post that solves the game.

[This is my first game with a bus driver in it].

[Keyser Söze]

Bulletpoint*

[Keyser Söze]

4. The OCCAM'S RAZOR option: There IS SCUM in Dauntless, and Ircher told the TRUTH about bus driving Screenplay and RM.

I think this is clearly the best option. It's the most obvious, the simplest, and it makes the most sense, especially when you think about the fact that situations change, plans change, and that we are all mafia players who must react to things. So here's how I believe it went down (creative license has been used liberally, lol):

Another problem with your theory zakk is that the serum's shouldn't be affected by things like bus driver. Or at least I think? I think the mod mentioned something like that earlier.

it sounds nice, but you miss 1 small detail - it was Ircher, who told us bus driver not work on serums, so they learned that before presumably using their ability on Srceen N1? or after it failed? Maybe they tried setup RM with bus drive? As i said, whole this is big WIFOM, so i rather not dig there now

Yes, that's the clincher for me: did scum not know that the

faction abilities

bypass the

player's abilities

? If they did, it kind of weakens this theory, making me uncertain whether I'd lynch in LUV/Ramcius (today).
We would also have to assume mafia were being very optimistic in hoping everything would fall as precisely into place as they'd planned.

In zakk's theory, mafia basically just f****d up their gambit...

Was there any confirmation/suggestion from keyenpeydee about the fact that faction abilities bypassed player's abilities BEFORE NIGHT 1?

[Keyser Söze]

Serum abilities bypass roles.

There's this thing called pm'ing the mod and asking.

Interesting. Very interesting.

[Keyser Söze]

Ircher claimed bus driver in our PT.

Was anything discussed in regard who he was going to choose to target?

[Keyser Söze]

No, he just said that he was going bus drive momo and me.

Did Ircher talk about Srceenplay/RM before N1?

[Keyser Söze]

Srceenplay re-read

UNVOTE:
Wheme is not an alt. I would describe his play as "eh whatever" type of player. The games I have read he says and does stupid shit. I'm not lynching him for this.

Ok, this is the second time mafia defended WhemeStar (Aris had previously). I wouldn't expect team-mafia trying to save their teammate in a collective defence.

Votes momo.
Think Nero's case on WhemeStar is a "stretch".
Focus still on momo.
More defending WhemeStar.
[I don't think mafia goes out his way this much to defend a teammate (

+1

for WhemeStar).]

Questions why Creature would join a Transcend wagon.
Asks zakk why he's scum reading Creature.

Srceenplay presents a meta argument to me on why we should lynch momo.
Refutes the idea that momo's frustration is genuine.
More focus on momo, via Ircher's ISO analysis on momo.
[I sadly don't see this as mafia trying to bury his teammate.]

Srceenplay still caught in momo-tunnel:

Momo still hasn't answered questions

Momo has dodge multiple questions.....

[I'm going to stop reading after Srceenplay was outted as scum on D2].

Conclusion:

IMO, WhemeStar comes out looking good.
...and momo (who he basically tunnelled and pushed all of D1, the interactions did seem only one-way though).
Like Aris' ISO, Srceenplay's focus was very narrow - there are many players he did not discuss/interact with

[Keyser Söze]

VOTE: zakk

VOTE: zakk

Though, we could go back for zakk as he seems pretty unengaged.

VOTE: zakk

Will zakk try to defend himself or just stall the game?

@Creature - where are you now with zakk?
What made you change your feelings on him?

[Keyser Söze]

Have we accounted for every NK yet?
I still don't have clarity.
Please can someone put a name/faction against every NK.

[Keyser Söze]

I.e. If town made those kills, aren't you worried that scum may have manipulated/groomed/influenced you in choosing to target town?

I want explicit details, please.

[Keyser Söze]

@ Ramcius / PV / shos / everyone really

Nero Cain v. Lil Uzi Vert solo votes. Thoughts? I think one of these wagons is where I'll be at the end of the day

LUV is currently not on my PoE shortlist (for reasons previously stated).
His FOLLOWER hammer vote buys him town-cred for today.

A Mafia-LUV narrative only works if he was part of a failed-scum-gambit that blew up in their face, not realising that the faction power bypasses player powers (as zakk has presented).

I have no stand out 'scum'-reads, only players I town read/lean more than others.

I have one more ISO to look through (Ircher's).

[Keyser Söze]

ProcessOfElimination:
'If I take away my strongest town reads who is left?'

[Keyser Söze]

I think it's Keyser, LUV or ThinkBig.

I'm not sure if anyone in your lynch list is actually scum.

Do you think BT/ThinkBig is scum now?

Do you think Keyser/LUV are 'mafia' scum (thus sheeping zakk's theory)?

[Keyser Söze]

@ThinkBig

Thoughts so far?


@alban

Have you had time to consolidate your reads yet?

[Keyser Söze]

@ThinkBig

Thoughts so far?


@alban

Have you had time to consolidate your reads yet?

[Keyser Söze]

I will be online later today.

[Keyser Söze]

So, it's a net town positive to leave Creature alive,

at the very least,

for today

.

Agreed.

i am literally dying laughing right now.

he's pulling this out of his ass right now.

Yes, I would describe Nero's SK-hunting vote on you as

contradictory

.
It also gives me

doubts

on how much I think he believes in his own PoE/'33% chance of scum flip' theory.

Apart from me, we do not have any conftowns.

currently the only ones that I'm 100% not lynching are momo and alban

Are you confirmed 'town', or confirmed 'not mafia'?
Are your town reads based on players not being 'mafia'?
[Just so that I have clarity].

[Keyser Söze]

2. alban, momo -

strong townreads

Hi Aronis

Please could you highlight the

'stong town'

alignment indicative posts alban has made.

[Keyser Söze]

Would only support Aronis and Nero Cain lynches.
Wouldn't mind a character claim from either.
Not lynching in Dauntless (today).

Will start contributing later this weekend.

[Keyser Söze]

I would only accept lynches in Dauntless if we are SK-hunting and still trying to account for the extra kills.
...and that is not today.

[Keyser Söze]

Aristophanes, Mafia 1-shot Bulletproof (Evelyn Johnson-Eaton), was lynched Day One!

scum having a protection role would point to them knowing that there is a killing role that's not them, its the only reason to suspect an SK (on d1) and I felt like Key is scummy for that and Zakk is scummy as well for buying into this magically 5/15 setup. I think scum exaggerate the number of scum in a game so it makes them look uninformed. It's intentional dumbtelling.

In my home-site, the town:scum ratio for a balanced game is normally 4:1.

With 20 players, I do not understand your suspicion of someone early set-up spec'ing 5 scum on D1 (5 group, or 4 group and 1 SK). It is D4 and it is still not resolved. The only information we have so far is: i) unaccounted NK's 2) a strong PR mafia team.

Who is your character?

[Keyser Söze]

Ramcius spearheaded the investigation, scum-reading, focus, vote and consolidation on two flipped Mafia.

He is off the books for today (as Mafia-scum)

[Keyser Söze]

Day Four will end in

(expired on 2017-05-10 00:05:00)

.

I will be online to the end of the deadline.

[Keyser Söze]

Day Four will end in

(expired on 2017-05-10 00:05:00)

.

I will be online to the end of the deadline.

Do you have a preference between Aronis and Nero? Is there either one you are unwilling to lynch?

There are no 'we've-got-scum-guys!' scum-reads in the remaining player list, however:


1st) IMO, Aronis would be the correct lynch as per PoE for today. (Plus, sheeping Ramcius since D1 has produced results).

2nd) Part-PoE, part-OMGUS: Nero is a player I have had problems since D1 [admittedly his interactions around flipped-scum made me feel he is suffering from heavy confirmation-bias (as not-mafia-scum)].

If we lynched outside these, I'd want both Aronis and Nero to full-claim before we did. Or claim now, well before the deadline.


"BTD6_maker and alban basically need to solve the game in their next 30-50 posts (no one should be reading them 'NOT mafia' right now)."
Sadly, I am not town reading Aronis/ThinkBig/BTD6_maker.
While alban's slot is apparently untouchable for today, so I will respect the information-that-I-do-not-hold.

[Keyser Söze]

Gamma Emerald replaces Aronis.

Deadline unchanged?

[Keyser Söze]

Have that feeling that this is going to be mislynch

If/when I hammer, we can still pick apart the wagon tomorrow (no town PR's exposed).

But yes, I'm finding it hard trying to see a world

where scum claims VT here

. The only hope for scum-Gamma in surviving D4 was claiming a PR.

I have admittedly been a useless sack of shite this dayphase, and if this a miss-lynch I'll put in the work D5.


If there is no extension, let's use the last 4 hours for final thoughts.

[Keyser Söze]

If there are two nightkills N4, mass roleclaim D5.

[Keyser Söze]

I asked this in my Faction PT too - are any of your characters protagonists/antagonists from the film franchise?

[Keyser Söze]

Our concern/suspicion in the Dauntless PT was that Aris' character claim was a straight up scum claim.

If anyone has an antagonist character and is town, please say now so I can dispell that theory.

[Keyser Söze]

I asked this in my Faction PT too - are any of your characters protagonists/antagonists from the film franchise?

Who are you asking that to? Everybody? Cause I feel like that's probably better if we discuss that Day 5.

Sorry, you're probably right.

[Keyser Söze]

Nero, claim please.

[Keyser Söze]

Yes, looking for role:

I'm Edward

Not looking good...

[Keyser Söze]

RE: main flipped characters

No.

I'd say there are two protagonists who are basically IC claims (that is if the flavor has any bearing on alignment).

HOWEVER, in Keyen's last epic flavour game I played (Harry Potter) who was a good or bad character in the books/films meant nothing (hence my caution).

[Keyser Söze]

I'm still here.

[Keyser Söze]

Our deadline will be 30 minutes before the actual deadline.

Then anyone can hammer (if I get struck down with lightning).

Just reading up on flavor...

[Keyser Söze]

Looking at the flipped scum:

Eric/Srceenplay

Mafia Neapolitan
"aligned with the Insurgent"



Yup, scum claim.
"ruthlessness"
"Enemies: Tris Prior, Tobias Eaton"
"Eric attempted to kill Tobias"
"so malicious"

[Keyser Söze]

Aristophanes/Evelyn Johnson-Eaton

Mafia 1-shot Bulletproof
"aligned with the Insurgent"



"deceived the Dauntless"
"Evelyn is against the Allegiant group which Tobias and Tris are in"
"Tris does not trust her"

Yup, straight-up scum claim.

Remember,

we are aligned with the Allegiant

.

[Keyser Söze]

Ircher/Peter Hayes

Mafia Bus Driver
"aligned with the Insurgent"



"I'm sick of doing bad things and liking it and then wondering what's wrong with me. I want it to be over. I want to start again."
"central antagonist"
"one of Tris Prior's' mortal enemies"
"cruel, antagonistic, ill-tempered, and easily jealous"
"unpredictable and violent"
"participates in the kidnapping and near death of Tris"
"Peter tries to steal the memory serum from Tobias"


illuminati confirmed. You can fuck off too Peter Hayes. Scum gonna scum.

[Keyser Söze]

...and now the new claims.

Uriah Pedrad / Gamma Emerald

"became a good friend of Tris Prior"
"Allies: Tris Prior (close friend), Christina (close friend), Tobias Eaton (friend)"
"Uriah is mentioned throughout Allegiant, even more when Tobias"

Town. All the way. Flavor-wise.


Gamma Emerald, that's a great claim (or fake claim).

[Keyser Söze]

Nobody hammer... I'm enjoying this. This is hilarious.

[Keyser Söze]

No, let's go back to flipped town as well:

Radiant Moonlight / Christina

Town Friendly Neighbor
"aligned with the Allegiant"



"Allies: Tris (best friend), Tobias (best friend)"
"She helps Tris... They then become best friends"
"Tris is Christina's best friend"
"Tris... confides to Christina her plans"
"Four mentions that Christina had become one of his best friends"



Town = town = town = town = town

Not_Mafia was Andrew Prior

Don't want to give spoilers away but he did something so heroic it makes my heart bleed.

Hero. Town-aligned.

Elena Fisher was Tori Wu

"became a vital and good friend to Tris Prior."
"Allies: Tobias Eaton, Tris Prior"

*spoiler stuff*

Damn. Another hero.

Town.

[Keyser Söze]

VT-claim basically means we can lynch/vig Gamma any day/night we want guilt-free.
Does Gamma want to survive hoping we WIFOM ourselves out til D5, D6, D7...?

[Keyser Söze]

Nero Cain claims Edward

NOT IN HIS FAVOUR:

"During the invasion, Christina and Tris are stopped by Edward, and Christina is shot in the leg while trying to fight him off but survives. Christina then guards Edward from catching up to Tris and Marcus."
"Allies: Evelyn Johnson-Eaton"
"Edward is now living with the Factionless led by Evelyn Johnson"

Fans call him:

"cold blooded murderer"
"sure he lost an eye, but that is not an excuse to become a cold blooded, murderous killer!"
"I fucking hate Edward!"

IN HIS FAVOUR:

"Peter had a quarrel with Edward" (flipped mafia)
"Tris bravely helped Edward"
"Allies: Tris Prior"
"Enemies: Peter Hayes, Eric"

Now why did Nero always get upset when we talked about a serial killer...?

[Keyser Söze]

If Keyen has decided to mind-fuck us with some roles that go against the flavor, I'd be suprised.

It has been very consistent so far.

[Keyser Söze]

According to Divergent Wikia, I don't see Evelyn in Edward's allies list.

Where are you getting your stuff from. Keyser?

Go to Evelyn's wiki.

I've ran a search on every page.

[Keyser Söze]

ah, this one was Peter, traito0r role would fir for him much better flavor wise, he was on both sides all time

True, that fits even better

[Keyser Söze]

Yeah, no quick-hammer.

Digging up Nero's ISO, looking at all mentions of SK.

[Keyser Söze]

only Mewtaph probably by Erudite

this, the other shots are a vig/sk

just to piggyback, 2/3 flipped scum didn't move factions. Also, Elana was a vig shot/SK pretending to be a vig.

Nero either trying to bait out mafia or SK-slipping.

[Keyser Söze]

zakk.. we all agreed on the deadline.

[Keyser Söze]

I was going to say if Nero flips town, the vig shoots within the Nero wagon.

(I wanted to hammer).

[Keyser Söze]

Why did you have to hammer?

We were all here online?

[Keyser Söze]

I'll discuss this tomorrow.

I had a mafia vs SK survival-theory suddenly just pop up in my head

[Keyser Söze]

Plus, Ircher's unsupported hard-defence on him on D1 will make sense now (if he is SK).

[Keyser Söze]

That's another reason why I wanted to hammer. If Nero flips town, and zakk is town, zakk is fucked.

[Keyser Söze]

Fucking hell.
I'm Four. Tobias.
I won't be roleclaiming though.

Who's Tris? Hikari...? Me and you have to win the game here.

Mafia and SK as expected.


Unlucky with vig shot but momo was practically non-Mafia cleared through associations.

Gonna reset my reads.

[Keyser Söze]

No voting yet shos.

[Keyser Söze]

P.s are you confirmed town, or confirmed not Mafia?

You didn't answer me yesterday.

[Keyser Söze]

Btw if we'd literally waited 1 minute more yesterday we would have no lynched. Ramcius came up with a solid flavour defense for Nero, but Zakk quickhammered.

[Keyser Söze]

How does a town confirmed player survive two nights?

[Keyser Söze]

Shos who are you?

Zakk, who are you?

[Keyser Söze]

We're still in a strong position.
Can't believe scum never cross-killed though.
Brutal night phase.

[Keyser Söze]

We surely must have SK and Mafia


Thanks x

[Keyser Söze]

It's alright mate you replaced in late.
In my eyes, flavor town clears you, so I have a constant now.

[Keyser Söze]

Don't discredit him mate.

Which character are you zakk and what r u?

[Keyser Söze]

Last to claim earns bonus scum points......

[Keyser Söze]

Any VCA experts in the house? Start analysing x

[Keyser Söze]

Copy and paste into Notepad first.


Creature, who what why when how are you?

[Keyser Söze]

Yes he's a bad muthfucker

[Keyser Söze]

Who is David?

[Keyser Söze]

Ok I'll read up on from the films.

If there's a contradiction we forget about flavor.

[Keyser Söze]

That doesn't make any sense flavor-wise, thus, no town points are to be awarded for being the main protagonists or scum points for being the main antagonists.

Ramcius never mentioned LOL. Even though we put all that effort into looking at flavor. What the hell man?

That's why I kept asking again and again: is your character a goodie or baddy? No one answered.

[Keyser Söze]

VOTE: LUV

1. Please character / role Claim
2. Why LUV?

x

[Keyser Söze]

Does anyone want to counter/contradict Zakk's ascetic claim?

(It could still be a scum modifier).



Ascetic SK is not a thing though is it? Too OP?

[Keyser Söze]

Yar, before we snatch defeat from the jaws of victory

[Keyser Söze]

PeregrineV still to sign in today and claim...


Creature, what was your faction serum? Dauntless were wondering if scum would take care of you last night... (you being the last member of Abnegation)


Btw I'm not Vanilla.

[Keyser Söze]

LOL
keyser is town
me and him are divergent and as such are immune to *REDACTED*. perhaps this is why I keep surviving O_o scum may know this.

anyway, momo was aristo's cw, he was fucking town.

Character and role please.

Are you town confirmed or confirmed not mafia, last time asking.

[Keyser Söze]

Cool.
I agree.
Only PeregrineV to go.


Btw, is this confirmed:

DAUNTLESS - Follower (Used on Srceenplay)
CANDOR - Cop (used on shos)
ERUDITE - Vig (used on Mewtaph)

ABNEGATION - Roleblock (Unused)
AMITY - Priest (Unused)

[Keyser Söze]

zakk is

easier to read

.

I don't like sharing my personal scumtells because when I share them they become invalid and I must find other scumtells.

Though, zakk can be

read by the way he reacts

, and sometimes the content of his posts. Use both of them at the same time to read him.

Please can you share with me 5 reasons why zakk is town/scum.

[Keyser Söze]

Is this right?

Not_Mafia, Town Doctor (Andrew Prior), was killed N1! MAFIA
Radiant Moonlight, Town Friendly Neighbor (Christina), was killed N2! MAFIA
Transcend, Vanilla Townie (Matthew), was killed N3! MAFIA
WhemeStar, Vanilla Townie (Edith Prior), was killed N4! MAFIA

Mewtaph, Vanilla Townie (Johanna Reyes), was killed N3! ERUDITE FACTION VIG

momo, Vanilla Townie (Edward), was killed N4! Hikari Link VIG

Elena Fisher, Town Factional Observer (Tori Wu), was killed N2! ????
Ramcius, Vanilla Townie (David), was killed N4! ????



I STILL CAN'T BELIEVE IT IS D5 AND IT'S ONLY NOW PEOPLE ARE CLAIMING THEIR NK'S (claiming accountablity)

We lynched Nero on the premise he was a SK.



If there is no SK, I want to know now before we start voting.

[Keyser Söze]

Where are you getting the information for what is a mafia kill or not? Who claimed that?

@zakk

As I said it's all my theory work at mo, because everyone's been secretive bastards.



------------------
I presumed Wheme was a Mafia kill, becuase he had strong-associations for NOT being mafia, plus, it was HE who Srceenplay had a vanilla result on. Srceenplay wouldn't have dared making up fake bs investigation results when he was roleclaiming.

Ramcius was surely a scum-kill too - I've been sucking his dick all game and would have never lynched him (he's my game MVP) plus, he orchestrated the suspicion/lynch/factional-investigation of TWO mafia.

Elena...? No idea.

Hikari Link claimed momo.

Transcend... another Dauntless legend.

Not_Mafia/Radiant Moonlight... I

presumed

mafia kill on these.

Mewtaph? In my game notes I'm wrote down ERUDITE FACTION VIG earlier. IS THIS TRUE? (why did I write this down?)

[Keyser Söze]

Can someone explain to me why an Ascetic Townie is in the set-up?
Thanks.

[Keyser Söze]

How do you know the mafia kill?

I don't. Read up my follow up reply. I've been here from the start.


Because no one is coming forth, I'm making presumptions.

No one has said I'm wrong right or wrong yet.

The vig kills have been so off-the-pulse that they unfortunately look scummy in isolation.

[Keyser Söze]

FYI it takes 5 to lynch and LUV is already L-2.. and everyone hasn't signed in yet...

[Keyser Söze]

Can someone explain to me why an Ascetic Townie is in the set-up?
Thanks.

My assumption was as a foil for the bus driver (along with the serums) / a false "positive" for any investigative roles

The PR factional serums bypass all player powers though...

If Dauntless wanted to investigate/follow you we would have been able to.

If Candor wanted to cop you, they could have got a result.

Likewise ABNEGATION could have Roleblocked you and AMITY priest'd zakk.

?

[Keyser Söze]

Yes, you don't need to claim: but I would like you to confirm if you're PR or VT (right now I think we have too many VT's but we'll talk about this after PereV claims)

I can prove my PR role, and unlikely to full claim unless I'm put to L-1.

[Keyser Söze]

PereV has promised a full catch-up, but stalling his claim is earning him scum points.

[Keyser Söze]

Mathblade, are you 2-shot commuter or 2-shot ascetic townie?

Zakk never confirmed.


Please confirm ASAP.

[Keyser Söze]

Claim now, otherwise you will be vigged mate.

Are you 2 shot commuter or 2 shot ascetic?

[Keyser Söze]

There are multiple killing roles, so the game is in no way won.

PereV hasn't signed in yet, you have.

Instead of catching up or claiming you are stalling.

This tells me only one thing.

[Keyser Söze]

VOTE: PeregrineV

Stop posting elsewhere and get your ass back in here.

This day is the most important day of the game.

Are you waiting to hammer LUV?

Catch-up / claim / whatever.

[Keyser Söze]

RE: LUV
LUV has always been my weakest town read within Dauntless (based on his in-game interactions). HOWEVER, his hammer vote on the Sreenplay Follow investigation was totally unnecessary as Mafia-scum. He could have just lurked out and not voted (I believe a majority vote was needed). He could have also told his Mafia teammate to only use his investigation PR and NOT perform the factional NK too. It's such utter shite scumplay if LUV is Mafia with them to needlessly guilty a powerful teammate (Screenplay could have got town cred for being investigated as only a cop).

Zak's theory of LUV being a mole did fascinate me, but the factional serums bypass player powers so I didn't fully buy the bus driver theory.


Right now I'd only lynch LUV as SK-scum, but I'd still need help there.

[Keyser Söze]

I had facts Keyser claimed vig. One shot vig claimed in hood. Hood explained likely gambit. I back off. Good night LUV.

I would have preferred to hear the claim from your own mouth, straight away.

I did not like the stalling... defensive deflection... seemed like you were trying to read up on what your previous slot had posted before committing to a claim. (something I have done as scum before)

But I'll have to forget this now and help you continue your catch-up, instead of you being on the defensive foot.

[Keyser Söze]

That was page 1 roleplaying.

I'm Four, Tobias.
Power Role.

[Keyser Söze]

Bernard is from WestWorld (a sci fi tv show, quiet a good one too!)

[Keyser Söze]

Can somebody make a claim list? Because I want to keep track of who has claimed what so that I can try to start eliminating suspects.

I've had hit here waiting to post, but waiting for PereV to confirm.

[Keyser Söze]

That was page 1 roleplaying.

I'm Four, Tobias.
Power Role.

could you please confirm for me if you have a night ability or not?

Day

[Keyser Söze]

Keep waiting.

@keyenpeydee

Prod Señor PeregrineV, please.

[Keyser Söze]

The Dauntless Faction PT summary

- Keyser Söze not understanding the scum-case/wagon on zakk
- Ramcius didn't like zakk's demand for faction powers
- Ramcius suggests fake-claiming our serum (vig power) for reaction purposes... Keyser Söze likes the idea but we never follow through with the plan
- Lil Uzi Vert replaces in
- Keyser Söze notices all the 'lynchbaits' have been wagonned so far
- Ramcius suggests using the Dauntless serum on shos,

Aristophanes

or

Srceenplay

(two flipped mafia!)
- Keyser Söze says he doesn't want to lynch shos D1, but would investigate. Also curious of Screenplay's fixation with momo
- Keyser Söze asks Transcend and Lil Uzi Vert's opinion on Screenplay, Nero, Ari or Elena
- Keyser Söze wants momo to roleclaim before he gets to L-1, worried that he'll be quickhammered without a claim
- Keyser Söze asks everyone if their characters are protagonists/antagonists from the film
- Ramcius votes Srceenplay
- Transcend votes Srceenplay
- Ramcius didn't like Srceenplay's reaction to Ari wagon and push on momo at the end of D1
- Lil Uzi Vert agrees on Srceenplay, mentions scum-read of BTD.
- Lil Uzi Vert hammer votes Srceenplay

*CELEBRATIONS on positive investigation result*

- Ramcius says he's not a main protagonist/antagonist...


[Will do last couple pages later]

[Keyser Söze]

5 SCUM

1 Aristophanes, Mafia 1-shot Bulletproof (Evelyn Johnson-Eaton), was lynched D1!
2 Srceenplay, Mafia Neapolitan (Eric), was lynched D2!
3 Ircher, Mafia Bus Driver (Peter Hayes), was lynched D3!

4 Mafia

1 Serial Killer

15 TOWN

PR

1 Not_Mafia, Town Doctor (Andrew Prior), was killed N1!
2 Radiant Moonlight, Town Friendly Neighbor (Christina), was killed N2!
3 Elena Fisher, Town Factional Observer (Tori Wu), was killed N2!

Hikari Link, 1-Shot Vig (Tris Prior)
Keyser Söze, Power Role (Tobias Eaton)
zakk, Ascetic Townie (Natalie Prior)

VT

1 Transcend, Vanilla Townie (Matthew), was killed N3!
2 Mewtaph, Vanilla Townie (Johanna Reyes), was killed N3!
3 Nero Cain, Vanilla Townie (Edward), was lynched D4!
4 WhemeStar, Vanilla Townie (Edith Prior), was killed N4!
5 Ramcius, Vanilla Townie (David), was killed N4!
6 momo, Vanilla Townie (Albert), was killed N4!

Lil Uzi Vert, Vanilla Townie (Marlene)
Gamma Emerald, Vanilla Townie (Uriah Pedrad)
Creature, Vanilla Townie (Marcus Eaton)

NOT CLAIMED

Shos, Role (Character)
PeregrineV, Role (Character)


[

Shos should know whether to lynch in the VT's or PR's.

]

[Keyser Söze]

Spoiler: set-up info and spec

5 SCUM

1 Aristophanes, Mafia 1-shot Bulletproof (Evelyn Johnson-Eaton), was lynched D1!
2 Srceenplay, Mafia Neapolitan (Eric), was lynched D2!
3 Ircher, Mafia Bus Driver (Peter Hayes), was lynched D3!

4 Mafia

1 Serial Killer

15 TOWN

PR

1 Not_Mafia, Town Doctor (Andrew Prior), was killed N1!
2 Radiant Moonlight, Town Friendly Neighbor (Christina), was killed N2!
3 Elena Fisher, Town Factional Observer (Tori Wu), was killed N2!
4 Shos, Power Role (Character)
5 Hikari Link, 1-Shot Vig (Tris Prior)
6 Keyser Söze, Power Role (Tobias Eaton)
MathBlade, Ascetic Townie (Natalie Prior)

VT

1 Transcend, Vanilla Townie (Matthew), was killed N3!
2 Mewtaph, Vanilla Townie (Johanna Reyes), was killed N3!
3 Nero Cain, Vanilla Townie (Edward), was lynched D4!
4 WhemeStar, Vanilla Townie (Edith Prior), was killed N4!
5 Ramcius, Vanilla Townie (David), was killed N4!
6 momo, Vanilla Townie (Albert), was killed N4!

Lil Uzi Vert, Vanilla Townie (Marlene)
Gamma Emerald, Vanilla Townie (Uriah Pedrad)
Creature, Vanilla Townie (Marcus Eaton)

NOT CLAIMED

PeregrineV, Role (Character)

[Keyser Söze]

Spoiler: set-up info and spec

DAUNTLESS - Follower (Used on Srceenplay)
ABNEGATION - Roleblock
CANDOR - Cop (used on shos)
ERUDITE - Vig (used on Mewtaph)
AMITY - Priest

TOWN:SCUM

15:4:1

5 SCUM

1 Aristophanes, Mafia 1-shot Bulletproof (Evelyn Johnson-Eaton), was lynched D1!
2 Srceenplay, Mafia Neapolitan (Eric), was lynched D2!
3 Ircher, Mafia Bus Driver (Peter Hayes), was lynched D3!

4 Mafia

1 Serial Killer

15 TOWN

PR

1 Not_Mafia, Town Doctor (Andrew Prior), was killed N1!
2 Radiant Moonlight, Town Friendly Neighbor (Christina), was killed N2!
3 Elena Fisher, Town Factional Observer (Tori Wu), was killed N2!
4 Shos, Power Role (Character)
5 Hikari Link, 1-Shot Vig (Tris Prior)
6 Keyser Söze, Power Role (Tobias Eaton)
MathBlade, Ascetic Townie (Natalie Prior)

VT

1 Transcend, Vanilla Townie (Matthew), was killed N3!
2 Mewtaph, Vanilla Townie (Johanna Reyes), was killed N3!
3 Nero Cain, Vanilla Townie (Edward), was lynched D4!
4 WhemeStar, Vanilla Townie (Edith Prior), was killed N4!
5 Ramcius, Vanilla Townie (David), was killed N4!
6 momo, Vanilla Townie (Albert), was killed N4!

Lil Uzi Vert, Vanilla Townie (Marlene)
Gamma Emerald, Vanilla Townie (Uriah Pedrad)
Creature, Vanilla Townie (Marcus Eaton)

NOT CLAIMED

PeregrineV, Role (Character)

[Keyser Söze]

Any comments on the D1 deadline VC's?

- As we suspected, on D1, momo was the counter wagon to the lynch on MAFIA-Aristophanes. Were 2 members of the mafia team pushing it? [

Srceenplay

and Lil Uzi Vert/Mathblade]
-

Ircher

hammered his teammate Aris, do you think any other mafia stayed on the wagon for town-cred/distancing [PeregrineV/Creature]?
- Only 1 player supported neither the Aris wagon, or the momo counter wagon: [Gamma Emerald].

Can any of the new players please offer some thoughts / re-post your VCA on the D1 vote counts.

[I have highlighted green myself, and the two players I think are town through investigation/through their claim].

Spoiler:

VOTE COUNT

VOTE COUNT 1.27

[7]

Aristophanes

:

alban

, Creature,

Radiant Moonlight

,

Transcend

, rb,

WhemeStar

,

Ramcius

,

[6]

momo

:

Srceenplay

, Lil Uzi Vert,

shos

, zakk,

Mewtaph

,

Not_Mafia

,

[2]

Radiant Moonlight:

Elena Fisher

,

Nero Cain

,

[2]

alban:

Aristophanes

, BDT6_maker,

[1] rb:

momo

,

[2] Not Voting:

Keyser Soze

,

Ircher

,

VOTE COUNT

VOTE COUNT 1.28

[L-3]

Aristophanes:

alban

, Creature,

Radiant Moonlight

,

Transcend

, rb,

WhemeStar

,

Ramcius

,

Not_Mafia

,

[6]

momo:

Srceenplay

, Lil Uzi Vert,

shos

, zakk,

Mewtaph

,

Aristophanes

,

[2]

Radiant Moonlight:

Elena Fisher

,

Nero Cain

,

[2]

alban:

BDT6_maker,

[1] rb:

momo

,

[2] Not Voting:

Keyser Soze

,

Ircher

,

VOTE COUNT

VOTE COUNT 1.29

[LYNCH]

Aristophanes

:

alban

,

Radiant Moonlight

,

Transcend

, rb,

WhemeStar

,

Ramcius

,

Not_Mafia

,

shos

, Creature,

momo

,

Ircher

,

[4]

momo:

Srceenplay

, Lil Uzi Vert, zakk,

Mewtaph

,

[2]

Radiant Moonlight:

Nero Cain

,

Aristophanes

,

[1]

alban

:

BDT6_maker,

[1]

Srceenplay

:

Elena Fisher

,

[2] Not Voting:

Keyser Soze

,

[Keyser Söze]

I was an SK but someone converted me to town.

Thanks for your honesty

@Creature

zakk is

easier to read

.

I don't like sharing my personal scumtells because when I share them they become invalid and I must find other scumtells.

Though, zakk can be

read by the way he reacts

, and sometimes the content of his posts. Use both of them at the same time to read him.

Please can you share with me 5 reasons why zakk is town/scum.

[Keyser Söze]

UNVOTE: PeregrineV

[Keyser Söze]

Character/role claim please.

[Keyser Söze]

Jeanine Matthews

Pre-'David'/Ramcius flip, I would have been frothing at the mouth at this character claim.

[Keyser Söze]

PereV claims PR...

Is he saying town started with 8 PR's and 7 VT's?

[Keyser Söze]

I'll claim divergent also.

There is no mention of divergent in my role/power.

How do you know you are divergent?

[Keyser Söze]

Spoiler: set-up info and spec

DAUNTLESS - Follower (Used on Srceenplay)
ABNEGATION - Roleblock
CANDOR - Cop (used on shos)
ERUDITE - Vig (used on Mewtaph)
AMITY - Priest

TOWN:SCUM

15:4:1

5 SCUM

1 Aristophanes, Mafia 1-shot Bulletproof (Evelyn Johnson-Eaton), was lynched D1!
2 Srceenplay, Mafia Neapolitan (Eric), was lynched D2!
3 Ircher, Mafia Bus Driver (Peter Hayes), was lynched D3!

4 Mafia

1 Serial Killer

15 TOWN

PR

1 Not_Mafia, Town Doctor (Andrew Prior), was killed N1!
2 Radiant Moonlight, Town Friendly Neighbor (Christina), was killed N2!
3 Elena Fisher, Town Factional Observer (Tori Wu), was killed N2!
4 Shos, Power Role (Character)
5 Hikari Link, 1-Shot Vig (Tris Prior)
6 Keyser Söze, Power Role (Tobias Eaton)

MathBlade, Ascetic Townie (Natalie Prior)
PeregrineV, Power Role (Jeanine Matthews)

VT

1 Transcend, Vanilla Townie (Matthew), was killed N3!
2 Mewtaph, Vanilla Townie (Johanna Reyes), was killed N3!
3 Nero Cain, Vanilla Townie (Edward), was lynched D4!
4 WhemeStar, Vanilla Townie (Edith Prior), was killed N4!
5 Ramcius, Vanilla Townie (David), was killed N4!
6 momo, Vanilla Townie (Albert), was killed N4!

Lil Uzi Vert, Vanilla Townie (Marlene)
Gamma Emerald, Vanilla Townie (Uriah Pedrad)
Creature, Vanilla Townie (Marcus Eaton)

[

Banking on both Shos (confirmed) and Hikari Link being town...

]

I can't see us having 8 PR's and 7 VT's.
Thus, I think at least one in MathBlade/PeregrineV are scum.
Remaining scum in Lil Uzi Vert/Gamma Emerald/Creature.

Expected PR:VT town split?: 6:9 or 7:8.

Have you seen/played any games where # of town power roles > # of town VTs?

Going to re-read the

Gamma Emerald/Aronis/ThinkBig/BTD6_maker

slot: surely this slot can't be the SK slot? SK is one of the most sought-after roles on mafiascum?

Only world where Lil Uzi Vert was mafia was in the theory zakk presented, where mafia f**ked up their bus driver N1 plan. I sadly cannot see the mafia team being so bad. Thus, I'd only see Lil Uzi Vert as SK-scum.

Creature has been a constant 'presence' in the game, will re-read his interactions around the flipped scum, but I feel like he still hasn't been able to obv-town.

Funny I'm the top poster besides Nero Cain yet it feels like I haven't done much.

You know I have the power to obvtown, right?

Now's the time.

[Keyser Söze]

Whynot 8 PRs? Scum can be stacked. We know they have 3 PRs so far, who knows what the last is, and theres an added SK...

Looking at the other Theme Park games on mafiascum, yes, I am wrong to rule out the possibility of 8 town PR's.

[Keyser Söze]

Yes, I agree. A short-sighted and naive PoE/scum-hunting tool. My bad.

Re-reading Gamma slot now.

[Keyser Söze]

BTD6_maker re-read

7 posts,

this should be easy

Spoiler:

RVS vote.
VLA warning.
Chooses to analyse the momo wagon as his first contribution to scum-hunting. for me he's taken the default position of momo being town... and not null which is suspicious. BTD scrutinizes Not_Mafia's momo scum read of momo.

BTD likes zakk's rationality to vote momo. Promises to look at zakk's tunnel later. Let's see if he does.
BTD likes zakk's reason for voting more than Not_Mafia's.

Early set-up spec from BTD:

Given 5 scum, there is a 7% probability that they know the powers, although after today if they switch they are almost certain to know all five. There is a 72% probability that they know any given power

BTD agrees with Srceenplay's point about momo 'inconsistency'. BTD calls Srceenplay a "nullTown" read.

Hmmm.. this sounds like BTD actually isn't convinced momo is town (via meta).

After all this analysis of the momo wagon, BTD doesn't choose to apply pressure/vote any of the players he found were suspicious... instead, he's now looking at the alban wagon. BTD supported the alban-just-made-a-scum-slip theory and votes alban. The alban wagon grew very fast before BTD's vote because of his anti-town play. Is BTD jumping on the easy target here?

Why didn't BTD pressure/vote Not_Mafia earlier? What is BTD's read on momo??

Did the possibility of Alban scum-slipping actually outweigh all of BTD's other suspicions?

BTD defends Aris:

Read the iso

Slot is scummy

First part of 742 really scummy.

What is your case on Aristophanes? I don't get why the catch-up post was something that scum would say in particular as opposed to Town. Please explain.

Overall, I don't see that much of an actual case on Aristophanes.

WIFOM actually makes me lean BTD-is-not-Aris' mafia partner. It's the one scum-read he's actively shut down with '

why-can't-this-be-town?

' reasoning.

BTD misses a whole chunk of D1 and D2. Votes Ircher D3. Ircher called BTD a "null read" around this time too.

[Keyser Söze]

I'll claim divergent also.

There is no mention of divergent in my role/power.

How do you know you are divergent?

@shos.

Should PeregrineV know he's divergent?

Why don't I know I'm divergent?

[Keyser Söze]

Power Role.

I have no new night information.

Do you have any old information that implicates/indicates/confirms any player movements/alignments?

There have been 4 night phases...

[Keyser Söze]

Re-reading

rb

's (PeregrineV's slot) posts from the start of D2 (when we had a guilty on Srceenplay, he took the role of trying to keep us calm and not rush the Srceenplay lynch, instead of powering through a quick lynch).

Actually looks to me like not mafia-scum (gut) :S

[Keyser Söze]

Mod pm after n1.

Why don't I know I'm divergent?

Why did Whemestar know? ...and PeregrineV, but not me?

[Keyser Söze]

Does being divergent have to do anything with not being mafia/SK?

[Keyser Söze]

I thought it was

game-related

... is it only flavor related...?