Gunner Mafia [Endgame]

[Panopticon]

just assume Chara is posting, by the way. :>

Don't look at me, I'm lurking

that hurts my feelings.
/replace



/s

that hurts my feelings.
/replace



/s

i used to be so good about slipping.

Don't look at me, I'm lurking

Woops, alt slip.

VOTE: Centipede Syndrome

Something about this doesn't feel right.

~The Observer

[Panopticon]

What's this C-initialphobia though?

For some reason I thought the hydra was Creature/Chara, whoops.
It's still weird that you claimed an altslip that didn't happen :<

~The Observer

[Panopticon]

i am also town

I'd rather still not say what my alignment is.

You're right, this is a much better vote.

VOTE: Creature

~The Observer

[Panopticon]

Mafia Gunner
You control the account “Mafia Gunner” that’s in the game. It can’t be lynched, or targeted. It counts for parity, can vote, and during the first 5 minutes of every day can take a 20% dayvig at someone. It will be announced who it is shooting at. It will be announced during the start of the game that mafia have this role and it counts for parity and can’t be voted or targeted. You can vote with it twice per day- just let me know. If you die, it dies.

Town Gunner
You control the account “Town Gunner” that’s in the game. It can’t be lynched, or targeted. It counts for parity, can vote, and during the first 5 minutes of every day can take a 20% dayvig at someone. It will be announced who it is shooting at. It will be announced during the start of the game that a towns person has this role and it counts for parity and can’t be voted or targeted. You can vote with it twice per day- just let me know. If you die, it dies.

So these are the gunner role pms when amrock last modded this game.

I have the mental image of two Lucians just dueling each other and missing every shot. Every. Single. One.

If the same mechanics hold I think that the town gunner shouldn't ever actually vote, since the Gunner is the most valuable townie.
Also they should probably just shoot leading wagons.

I find this agreeable, so long as their powers are not unchanged.

~The Observer

[Panopticon]

VOTE: scum

This is the best way to find scum.

Bins(3)

~ Srceenplay(2), Creature(15), Beeboy(11)

That's Regex pattern matching for you. Both words are 4 letters long and share a common letter, must be the closest match~!

Sorry, didn't read that whole mess. I skimmed enough to find out it was a mess tho.

I'm going here:

VOTE: Mafia Gunner

This is fake.

VOTE: Quick

Just because it's fake doesn't mean he doesn't have a point. 90% of the posts that came after my last post were just fluff and people gaming the votecount. See my above quote.

I'm gonna stay on the caught scum wagon

You just love earning my vote, don't you. At this point I'm not even sure if my vote on you is RVS or not.

this game is annoying. I'm just going to lurk until all the trolls are dead.

I don't intend to lurk, I will keep trying to dig nuggets of content out of a sea of foam and fluff.

~The Observer

[Panopticon]

VOTE: quick

Quick isn't even wrong, though. Only the first 3 pages have actual content.

~The Observer

[Panopticon]

Both words are 4 letters long and share a common letter, must be the closest match~!

Wolf and Bins don't have a common letter though. What do you have to say to that?

That regex sucks?

~The Observer

[Panopticon]

Is anyone else bothered by the fact mafia are flavored as wolves this game, but it's a mafia gunner and not a wolf gunner?

Could easily be that the mafia were in part eliminated by the wolves. Or maybe the mod didn't want to make yet another vanity account for the new flavor.

You just love earning my vote, don't you.

If you'd rather vote someone being chilly over someone actually acting like scum, then yeah.

Everyone hasn't even posted yet.

Still gonna votepark on me, The Observer?

I'm happy with it until I see something scummier.

VOTE: Quick

This vote is even more naked.

What's wrong with being naked?

Because then your vote is baseless.

The purpose clearly isn't, you seem over defensive poppins to me.

I feel like this is more of a distraction at this time.

I still don't think Quick is actually doing anything in these last 2 pages.
Creature sheep me please.

I agree but don't think it's necessarily scummy, or otherwise town are the minority in between scumteams because a lot of people are 'not actually doing anything' despite posting.

I feel like there's going to be mafia and werewolves and when mafia flips people will say 'it's multiball' and other people will say 'they're clearly the same team due to mafia gunner'.

Other win conditions may or may not exist.

You may be onto something here.

But I'd rather not think about stuff like this unless we actually have a reason to.

Good stuff to remember if we get conflicting flips.

OK, I will calim:

I am just a villager.

Literally what. You're, like, L-4 last time I checked.

So what do we do now?

We could, in theory, lynch Quick.

Spoiler: old wall

just assume Chara is posting, by the way. :>

Don't look at me, I'm lurking

that hurts my feelings.
/replace



/s

that hurts my feelings.
/replace



/s

i used to be so good about slipping.

Don't look at me, I'm lurking

Woops, alt slip.

VOTE: Centipede Syndrome

Something about this doesn't feel right.

~The Observer

agree but I'd look at creature first

That is where my vote is, as of this moment.

Spoiler: A good reason to lynch Quick

I keep asking you why what I am posting is Bullshit and you keep NOT explaining that.

I still don't think Quick is actually doing anything in these last 2 pages.
Creature sheep me please.

I don't think quick is stupid enough to believe he is the only one who thought we should be voting confirmed scum.
Also I did the exact same vote post 6.

I literally said in thread, your complaining about a lack of content while not adding any yourself.
Your just defending yourself and complaining here. You aren't analyzing posts or actually doing anything.


So for 1, I think you'd be confused why no one is voting mafia gunner if you think it is possible, and then realize you can't do it.
And also if you read the game you'd see I tried to do it post 6.

hi

wow

We get a game together and THIS happens. It's almost like Open 569 all over again, except with more condensed shit.

~The Observer

[Panopticon]

tl;dr my read on Quick developed over the making of this post from null to pretty scummy, soooooo

VOTE: Quick

Gonna put my vote where my mouth and reads are.

~The Observer

[Panopticon]

Heh, not really buying Quick

It is a better vote than you are, at this point.

Spoiler: rl stuff

Gotta go to work very soon, not sure how long I'll be, but definitely won't be able to look in on the game for a bit. I'll let The Observed handle things for a while.

~The Observer

[Panopticon]

Watch out

It costed a pretty much won game

Don't silly claim

Quick already claimed VT.

~The Observer

[Panopticon]

Why is this game like this.

~The Observer

[Panopticon]

'engaged creature is town creature, always'

that's such a wolf looking into the game tbh. the confidence of it 70 fucking posts into it. and nothing creature wrote was something a wolf couldn't easily write. even wolf creature. I mean he has to learn at some point. how is town so quick to call creature town here? it's suspicious.

The best part is that it's a pile of shit, mostly. The problem is that Quick needs to die more than Creature needs another vote. We can absolutely afford to lose Quick.

nero tentative town
creature tentative town
beeboy town

quick wagon is going to lead to annoying garbage which is probably not worth it on d1 regardless of whether he says things that come across as weird

[1]

so.
would be better if people just ignored him completely.

vote: brian

grey is also an acceptable gorkington approved counterwagon.

p-edit: why not?
why would anyone be worried about the possiblity of lategame scumcreature if creature is playing to town meta this early?

[2]

1: Taken with the rest of his play makes him the scummiest player of the lot. It would hurt town more to leave Quick alive to play a different game than the one we're in.

2: I'm not familiar with his meta and his play seems meh so far. I wouldn't say he's town.

Spoiler: for later

VOTE: mulch

actually this is boring.
VOTE: brian skies

and now this. I don't like ausuka's progression. calls brian town, brian wonders if he is being pocketed, which is inherently a towny thought to have, and after an interaction in which brian does not appear particularly wolfy ausuka is voting brian? that's something now isn't it. not that I like brian's posts otherwise, but this ausuka progression is wolfy. townreads from nowhere, OMGUSing when convenient. kinda wolfy?

Don't lynch anyone without my consent please. This is important that is all

Soft noted.

Nothing soft about it.

MariaR can we lynch Brian Skies?

I just want hammer it's needed and I'll give consent until then we can just play normally

Please tell me this is not maximum janitor salt mining.

im only okay with lynching quick if we actually lynch quick and dont run him up, get 60 pages of noise because thats what happens when you wagon quick and then decide that we dont want to lynch him.

p-edit: i personally think brian's tone has been pretty uninvested so far in a way that could easily be scum trying to shrug off pressure.
i also think ausuka jumping around as much as they have already is pretty townish.

I can definitely stay behind a Quick lynch, heh.

OK, I just read the rules and shit..

Don't know why centipede encouraged me to claim. That's Anti-Town. I shouldn't have claimed and that's on me. This is not really a big deal though because I likely would have been lynched D1 anyways, so consider it a double day. Also, I signed up for this game when I should not have, so it's not going to bother me too much to leave the game early.

yeah centipede just flat out wolfsided cause that stuff isn't punished on potatoscum.

My read on the situation is that Elli was memeing on Quick and Quick being a thick headed fool believed it to be 100% serious and claimed vt (or maybe villager I'd have to reread)

if I don't have the game broken day 2 or something you can lynch me kek

I'll be sure to take you up on that, Ellibird.

Town Gunner

(0)

, Mafia Gunner

(0)

So what do people make of this?

That they're unvotable but on the vote count because Mulch hates us and revels in our suffering. Also what Nero said, that would out PRs and that's bad.

VOTE: Quick

lynch the poster who makes it hard to read yaya

I'd rather buy this entry thank you very much Bins.

~The Observer

[Panopticon]

VOTE: Brian skies

i lied i can buy the entry

Give me a reason that I should be voting Brian over Quick.

~The Observer

[Panopticon]

the Gunners are on the votecount because they can vote.

Worst Role NA

~The Observer

[Panopticon]

VOTE: Brian skies

i lied i can buy the entry

Give me a reason that I should be voting Brian over Quick.

~The Observer

Is anyone else bothered by the fact mafia are flavored as wolves this game, but it's a mafia gunner and not a wolf gunner?

5. The players named Town Gunner and Mafia Gunner cannot be voted or targetted. They do not count for parity. Town Gunner is a villager, and

Mafia Gunner is a wolf.

willful misdirection?

I read that as a fluff post honestly.

~The Observer

[Panopticon]

I'm almost inclined to vote Quick to cut down on the spam.

I find this particularly agreeable.

~The Observer

[Panopticon]

Town
Beeboy
Creature
Toranaga
Nero
Gork
Grey

Less Town
The Worst
Maybe Quick - I could easily make a case against this slot, but I don't really believe this will flip scum.

No Idea
Everyone Else

Slight Scumlean
Srceen - My gut says otherwise, but I feel like this post is unnecessarily nitpicky (and I feel like that's more of something scum might do). I'm also not getting good vibes from his hardtunnel on the Quick slot. So it's probably more appropriate to put him here even though

Sketchy
Ausuka
Cheeky

Scumleans
Brigand
Hopkirk - I'm not confident on this being scum, but I do get the placating, and I didn't really get the greatest vibes in his push on me (he didn't even answer my question to him). Feels a lot like 'poking and running away', if that makes any sense.

VOTE: Hopkirk

I don't like how you went out of your way to avoid mentioning us. You really must not like us or something.

Assuming roles are randomly distributed, surely you have as much chance of drawing scum as I do

This is particular seems like a weird thing to say.

I'm also not a fan.

who is CS?

Centipede Scum, who we're voting. It might be SC lol.

I'll move from elli when elli starts villaging. I have 0 sympathy for what people are calling 'memeing' on quick and inducing him to claim. that's just pro-scum play.

I didn't want his claim, I wanted him dead.

Spoiler: pocketed

VOTE: SCREENPLAY

CheekyTeeky(2) ~ Nero Cain(2)

That typo in the username.

What a flawless defense.

VOTE: CheekyTeeky

awww I was hoping my vote would redirect to a player.

Why would you think this would happen?

early reads are that creature is town, brian probably is too.

I think I'm being buddied.

^^^^ spiffeh

I can totally see brian's point of view in context here. just what exactly could warrant a townread from him? 3 empty as fuck posts and you're townread for it? it's suspicious.

I think Panopticon looks p. bad and no one is talking about them

It looks like they arbitrarily picked Creature and later Quick as scum reads, because I never really saw an explanation beyond quoting what someone else said and despite there being a lot of Quick content since they don't look like they've genuinely been evaluating his alignment.

And scum!Creature and scum!Quick are probably the two worst opinions to have in the game rn so

I've been asleep. Consider that I've never heard of either of these players, then gain some meta on me.
I'll even save you the trouble and recommend a game: Open 569

There's also this to consider:

you shouldnt apparently im scum because i had a scumread on quick and his entire ISO before engaging me was apparently obvtown.

Which I don't understand AT ALL. I know that obviously Gork is being sarcastic but I can't understand how anyone actually believes this shit, particularly "his entire iso before engaging me was obvtown". Shitposting doesn't make you town.

I think Panopticon looks p. bad and no one is talking about them

Get a wagon going on him and I'd back it.
I'd actually kind of like to see you off Brian and onto Hopkirk, personally, but Panopticon looks more interesting than Brian as a wagon to me also, which makes me wonder why you're spinning your wheels there.
I can't even recall the last point anyone really advanced much on him - though I'll admit 10 pages back only takes us to yesterday evening, but still

Refresh your stale read or move?

I'll admit that I'm not taking him seriously because he's not really interacting with me much.

wait quick are you a vt

wtf you said you'd claim earlier

Unauthentic.

claimclaimclaimclaimclaimclaimclaimclaim

you're a wolf

VOTE: centipede syndrome

centipede has spent the entire game going through the motions, doing interactions that are meaningless and pushing pro-scum early claims because elli doesn't care, because elli isn't very likely a villager.

I liked one chara post way back then but that's being override by the many wolfy elli posts.

Agreement.

Well damn, not sure how I missed this earlier. Looks like we might have ourselves a winner here.

VOTE: Centipede Syndrome

Don't worry, Quick, I will save a vote just for you tomorrow.

~The Observer

[Panopticon]

lynching the person who is the designated n1 kill kek

Nice AtE, elli, did it take 10 seconds to come up with?

:hyperthonk:

~The Observer

[Panopticon]

hey creature
look at the page number and look at what you're saying
(and scroll down 1 post)
deja vu?
viewtopic.php?p=9753774#p9753774

I disagree with this kind of meta-mongering on principle. Even though I'm a filthy hypocrite.

~The Observer

[Panopticon]

Every single person except Thor has confirmed, so although I originally intended to wait to start the game before he confirmed (beacuse he never technically confirmed his pre/in), I'm not going to hold the entire game hostage over one person. If he does end up getting "replaced", don't hold it against him.

This is what proves Greyice was lying.

I told you, Mulch sent me my role entirely inside a spoiler tag, and I never opened it. I even told him in my confirmation note that I was avoiding spoilers.

It seems you got a slightly different role PM from me. Did yours have a QT link outside the spoiler section perhaps?

So what you're saying is that you wanna get force-replaced out of this game and maybe even banned for admitting to breaking one of the site rules.

~The Observer

[Panopticon]

speedy

lmfao grey you're joking about the role PM thing right

I'm pretty sure he is, but you never can tell with these kinds of things.

~The Observer

[Panopticon]

Oh and useless hydra, here's the site rules:

Subject: Forum Rules and Guidelines

Mafia Rules

Breaking rules, not posting, or certain other behavior may result in a modkill or replacement in affected games; rules regarding this should be (and generally are) included up front by the Game Moderator. Some rules apply to most games, and should be assumed to hold unless the Game Moderator explicitly says otherwise. These are:

1. Do not attempt to play the same game under more than one name.
   
2. Do not bring outside influences into the game - this includes threats, bribes, wagers, promises, "trust tells", alliances, etc. Using
   knowledge
   from previous games is perfectly acceptable, but try not to carry grudges from one game to another.
   
3. Do not talk outside the game thread about an ongoing game except where explicitly allowed to do so by your role/moderator. Likewise, do not use bbcode to hide secret messages - this equates to discussion outside the thread. For more information on this, please see this post.
   
4. Do not edit/delete posts.
   
5. Do not quote communications with the moderator (in particular, your role PM). Paraphrasing is usually ok.
   
6. Do not post in the game after you are dead or replaced. Some moderators do allow contentless "Bah!" posts, but you should never reveal information once you are dead.
   
7. Play to win the game.
   
8. Since Mafia is based largely on conflict and psychological manipulation, we are somewhat more tolerant of aggressive and heated posts in-game than in the rest of the forums. However, game mods will often take action for excessively abusive behavior or slurs, up to and including a force-replacement or modkill. In certain cases, posters with multiple or severe offenses may receive site-wide punishments from the list moderators, such as temporary or permanent bans from joining or playing games. Please refer to the most recent pages of the Ban/Restrictions Announcements thread for an idea of what behavior crosses the line.
   
9. Off-site games that are organized in an official manner (e.g. Large Social Games hosted on zetaboards) are subject to on-site rules.

All disputes regarding an ongoing game should be taken to the moderator of the game by PM.

Game Moderators should never modkill or replace over personal issues; instead, they should follow the rules set at the beginning of the game. If you feel the Game Moderator is being unreasonable, you may contact the appropriate List Mod or a site administrator.

In some cases, actions taken with the intent of ruining a game may result in further action against the user, such as a limitation on the number of games that user can play, or a temporary or permanent ban. Any player that is force-replaced for breaking site rules may not "replace back in" to those games after the ban is over.

Those are straight from the horse's mouth.

Feel free to stop making shit up about what's in them and start playing mafia any time. Because I might not know what alignment I am, but yours is getting pretty fucking obvious.

In some cases, actions taken with the intent of ruining a game may result in further action against the user

I'm torn between voting GreyICE, Quick, Ausuka, and Centipede.
Hmmmm....
I really don't like Ausuka's most recent "lol i will give no effort" post eg 833
VOTE: Ausuka

~The Observer

[Panopticon]

No GI I’m p. sure playing without knowledge of your alignment is against the rules (the “play to win” one specifically) so you should probs rectify that

I almost ate a short ban for gambitting about not having read my Role PM. Thankfully I actually had read it or I'd have had an enforced vacation.

~The Observer

[Panopticon]

hi. i'm apathetic and lazy and i've given up on completely catching up, by the time I'm done there'll be 34 more pages. I don't really like centipede and quick wagons so I'm gonna start my own.
VOTE: tchill

y tho?

his hop on centipede was scummy.

What makes my own hop on Centipede less scummy, just wondering?

And I agree that while townish, that doesn't stop GreyICE from being an unmitigated asshole.

~The Observer

[Panopticon]

My role PM was also given to me in a spoiler tag, which I didn't realize for some reason. Don't know if this means anything, but I agree that playing without knowing your alignment goes against the integrity of this game since you can't play to your win condition if you don't even know what it is.

It wasn't even a titled spoiler, for shame.

~The Observer

[Panopticon]

hi. i'm apathetic and lazy and i've given up on completely catching up, by the time I'm done there'll be 34 more pages. I don't really like centipede and quick wagons so I'm gonna start my own.
VOTE: tchill

y tho?

his hop on centipede was scummy.

y tho?

it's a self-evident truth

Seems arbitrary that he's scum for it but I'm not.

~The Observer

[Panopticon]

Notes so far;
38 from Maria is really reachy.
44 feels pretty scummy too. 59/63 is a huge overreaction to the push at that point.
I townread Cedrick and katherine.
Creature hasn't really posted enough to be sorted yet. If this keeps going for a while he can be town.
What kts did can come from either alignment and I haven't found anything to sort him with.

Extra-Special Townbloc of Happy Friends

Ausuka, Cedrick

Candidates For Promotion

Katherine

Watchlist For Meaniness

brassherald, Creature, Gamma Emerald, Mumble, Killthestory, implosion

Wanted for Bullying and General Sad Crimes

MariaR, Tchill13

VOTE: Tchill

This is Scum.

Took me literally less than a minute to meta dive this read.

i had literally just came back to the site at that point. of course I'm going to change my playstyle over time. i don't see your point.

Looks at join date...

What exactly is your point? Join, play like 5 games, then leave for a few months, not unreasonable at all.
Can't believe I'm defending Ausuka here, must be a mark of how dull you are, Quick.

~The Observer

[Panopticon]

Honestly, the fact that Quick is voting for Centipede is the best reason to not be voting for Centipede, in my opinion.

~The Observer

[Panopticon]

An out of game note, this votecounter is pretty impressive compared to Thesp's.

With that said, you don't even know me, elli, don't call me a shitter. Thx <3

@Hopkirk: gonna make a table in a sec

~The Observer

[Panopticon]

Mod Confirmed Town - Ironclad Townread - Strong Townread - Townread - Townlean - Neutral - Not Indicative - Scumlean - Scumread - Strong Scumread - Ironclad Scumread - Mod Confirmed Scum
Neutral means I feel neutral about them. Not Indicative means I haven't seen enough from them either way.

Mod Confirmed Town

A. Town Gunner

Ironclad Townreads

12. Panopticon (Varsoon and Tn5421)

Strong Townreads

3. Beeboy (almost all posts are helpful to town in some way, shares my read on Quick, and overall approach to the game so far)

Townreads

10. Gorkington (Despite his posts being so short, most of them are quite useful, 792 doesn't feel like something scum would post without being prompted. 732-754-760 are also particularly good imo)
7. CheekyTeeky (Currently town IMO for the same reason as Beeboy, but not as strong of a read)
5. Bins (Haven't seen indications of scum!bins yet)

Townleans

18. Creature (everyone is so insistent that he's transparent as fuck. Since this read somes from pretty much every other player, townlean for now)
20. Brian Skies (I've liked most of his recent posting, on a good track atm)
14. Srceenplay (Liked his push on Quick but he's kind of disappeared since then, he was a stronger townread earlier)

Neutrals

21. Nero Cain (I was townleaning you before, but I'm reading your argument with Toranaga being a lot less productive than it could have been)
15. Spiffeh (I fully admit I haven't even tried to sort you yet, but I don't think you're scum)
16. Brigand Vvulf (Who? srsly)
4. Thor665 (Can't decide without further input whether or not 737 was buddying)
8. Hopkirk (haven't paid you any attention at all, to be honest)

Non Indicatives

17. Tchill13 (2 posts)
13. The Worst (2 posts)
2. MariaR (hasn't been seen since the game blew up)

Scumlean

1. Toranaga (they've said some things i agree with but i can't shake the feeling something isn't right. gut read)
6. Ausuka (based entirely on post 833)
19. Centipede Syndrome (Ellibereth+Chara) (Ellibereth gives no shits about this game at all, and Chara posts are few and far between. Taking an active interest in the game will likely see this become a townread later.)

Scumreads

11. GreyICE (largely based on personal dislike, but is also based in difference in behavior between this game and games where GreyICE replaced into townslots)

Strong Scumreads

9. Quick (kicking up a huge fuss in the thread over nothing and being a distraction from any and all play, trying to claim towncred by pretending to not notice Mafia Gunner's inability to be voted, and overall annoyance with playstyle)

Mod Confirmed Scum

B. Mafia Gunner (proven unvotable by page 2, @Quick, stop being fake)

[Panopticon]

Why bins why?

Also the above post was mine.

~The Observer

[Panopticon]

kicking up a huge fuss in the thread over nothing and being a distraction from any and all play

and overall annoyance with playstyle)

Why do these things make Quick scum to you?

Because this type of play tends to get players townread, despite all logical reasons otherwise. A fact I have used to my advantage before.

~The Observer

[Panopticon]

They must be making some thesis on the scum thread on why they hate how easily I obvtown.

Because I have a history against players that are supposedly obvtown, according to everyone, but end up being scum. It's not personal.

It isn't intended to be, Creature.

~The Observer

[Panopticon]

are you seriously trying to say I'm lying about having to sleep and go to school? really?

hi. i'm apathetic and lazy and i've given up on completely catching up

This, specifically, is what I don't like.

~The Observer

[Panopticon]

kicking up a huge fuss in the thread over nothing and being a distraction from any and all play

and overall annoyance with playstyle)

Why do these things make Quick scum to you?

Because this type of play tends to get players townread, despite all logical reasons otherwise. A fact I have used to my advantage before.

~The Observer

Why does that make Quick scum for playing this way though? It's not like town can't do these things?

[1]

pedit: I was talking to quick, not you, pano.

[2]

and @quick, I never said I townread cheeky. I said my read was balanced, because I liked her tone, but I didn't like the vote on brigand. and I said this after I ISO'd her, because I was asked to give my thoughts on her.

1: Because it pays off later in the game. If quick isn't lynched today, he will coast to endgame.
2: My bad

~The Observer

[Panopticon]

I guess I need to gather my townreads first.

While you're doing that, can you explain your vote on Brian?

~The Observer

[Panopticon]

kicking up a huge fuss in the thread over nothing and being a distraction from any and all play

and overall annoyance with playstyle)

Why do these things make Quick scum to you?

Because this type of play tends to get players townread, despite all logical reasons otherwise. A fact I have used to my advantage before.

~The Observer

Why does that make Quick scum for playing this way though? It's not like town can't do these things?

[1]

pedit: I was talking to quick, not you, pano.

[2]

and @quick, I never said I townread cheeky. I said my read was balanced, because I liked her tone, but I didn't like the vote on brigand. and I said this after I ISO'd her, because I was asked to give my thoughts on her.

1: Because it pays off later in the game. If quick isn't lynched today, he will coast to endgame.
2: My bad

~The Observer

well yes, that does mean that if Quick is scum, he's more likely to win, but why do you think it makes Quick more likely to be scum in the first place? because right now I think quick is the perfect lynchbait, and I don't like your push on him.

Even if town, his play makes the game hard to read, which is honestly enough reason on it's own to lynch him.

Spoiler: useless nonsense from quick

are you seriously trying to say I'm lying about having to sleep and go to school? really?

I'm not.

Then I have no idea what point you're trying to make.

You don't have to. Just please answer my questions and I can either clear you or condemn you.

I answered your question.

Who asked you to ISO Cheeky?

Greyice asked me for a read, and to answer, I had to ISO cheeky.

What does it matter who asked Ausuka to ISO Cheeky?

[Panopticon]

Even if town, his play makes the game hard to read, which is honestly enough reason on it's own to lynch him.

-_-

I don't want another 126 page Day 1. viewtopic.php?p=6194811#p6194811

~The Observer

[Panopticon]

UNVOTE:

I know what role you are.

i, uh, haven't really been softing???

Give me your top 5 TRs

I can clear people based off this.

goat

egg

[Panopticon]

Nero is clear and so is hopkirk.

What about Beeboy?

VOTE: Pan

Not sure but we can throw in cheeky for sure.

As town?

yeah. Your all clear.

how are all these people clear?

I mean I'm townreading all of them but why are you clearing them?

Could be a busted role but I'm more inclined to disbelieve this claim.

WELL THEN

VOTE: CENTIPEDE SYNDROME

~The Observer

[Panopticon]

Nero is clear and so is hopkirk.

What about Beeboy?

VOTE: Pan

Not sure but we can throw in cheeky for sure.

As town?

yeah. Your all clear.

how are all these people clear?

I mean I'm townreading all of them but why are you clearing them?

I don't want to say because Scum could take advantage of that. Just trust me on that.

Bullshit.

[Panopticon]

"lol they're clear"
"lol don't question it"

Coming from the most incompetent player in this game, you can actually shove this right back up your ass.

[Panopticon]

Nero is clear and so is hopkirk.

What about Beeboy?

VOTE: Pan

Not sure but we can throw in cheeky for sure.

As town?

yeah. Your all clear.

how are all these people clear?

I mean I'm townreading all of them but why are you clearing them?

I don't want to say because Scum could take advantage of that. Just trust me on that.

Bullshit.

I don't think we should push him on this. there is an anti-claim mechanic.

I didn't say we should, I'm stating my disbelief that his role can clear 5 people in one shot.

~The Observer

[Panopticon]

The guy who went out of his way to claim Villager is definitely saying he read people as town

due to his role

?

Same

[Panopticon]

I've got to head to work soon, I'll be back tonight and

HOPEFULLY MY HYDRA PARTNER WILL POST BY THEN

~The Observer

[Panopticon]

UNVOTE:

[Panopticon]

Varsoon here.
This game is 46 pages.
Case for reading all of those pages instead of just picking up from here?

Also, slow the fuck down with your posting, holy shit, 46 pages in like 24 hours please stop.

-The ObserVed

[Panopticon]

I'mma be real, I'm not even sure who's in this game.
Quick, who are you?

-ObserVed

[Panopticon]

I'mma be real, I'm not even sure who's in this game.
Quick, who are you?

-ObserVed

Designated Town Idiot.

~The Observer

[Panopticon]

Thor do you scum read Hopkirk? 1157 feels like you're talking to town.

I'm spending the entire post mocking him and denigrating his case on me.
If that's a town/town conversation to you then it's a town/town conversation - it is what it is and I said what I said.
I do scum read him - I'm voting him don't'cha know.

Why are you phrasing his actions as silly instead of scummy? Clearly you don't think silly and scummy are the same thing looking at your srceenplay and Quick reads.

ISO tchill please

look this whole gameday is about finding one scum and creating a POE

we have a towncore. let's lynch wolf and move on.

Is he still on 3 posts? Will look again shortly

~The Observer

[Panopticon]

VOTE: Hopkirk

Thor's never been wrong.

-ObserVed

[Panopticon]

For what reason do you want to convince me differently, Toranaga?

-ObserVed

[Panopticon]

sheep me then loltor when I'm wrong. how easy is that? it won't even be your fault.

No thanks.
Seems like you're baiting me into a mislynch.

VOTE: Toranga

-V

[Panopticon]

I can assure you I'll never be scum caught off of 3 posts lol

I mean, I wanna lynch it just for this kinda thing lol
anyone who ends a post with lol is scum in my book lol

VOTE: Tchill13 lol

-ObserVed

[Panopticon]

go read the pages, find scum

y r talking to him as if he's town?

I'm not a stupid tunneler and am always cheritable to other players. I don't -know- tchill is scum, so there's no reason for me to talk to him as if I do.

Lol. That's when Walt admits to being the bad guy in a sarcastic way.

Toranaga if you're actually the bad guy hats off to you for using that gif.

I've fully scumclaimed with gif related before, so, ah, I'm really feeling like there's scum between tortuga and nochill.

-ObserVed

[Panopticon]

I can assure you I'll never be scum caught off of 3 posts lol

I mean, I wanna lynch it just for this kinda thing lol
anyone who ends a post with lol is scum in my book lol

VOTE: Tchill13 lol

-ObserVed

If you say so, lol

~The Observer

[Panopticon]

Nah, they're both posting like I do when I'm scum.
They could both be scum or one of em could be scum, but I don't buy that they're both town.
But, ay, if they are, thankfully they'll be lynched and gone, amirite?
toot toot

-ObserVed

[Panopticon]

My bad,
'gut'.

Look, man, I could contrive some other reason to vote, but I don't have to.
Lol post some more, you dead sonovabitch

-ObserVed

[Panopticon]

I guess I could be wrong and this is SCFTWR but I still feel like the reasons for said wagon were kinda lame but I agree that his reactions aren't great though.

If by aren't great you mean shit I agree.

~The Observer

[Panopticon]

Mod Confirmed Town - Ironclad Townread - Strong Townread - Townread - Townlean - Neutral - Not Indicative - Scumlean - Scumread - Strong Scumread - Ironclad Scumread - Mod Confirmed Scum
Neutral means I feel neutral about them. Not Indicative means I haven't seen enough from them either way. First reads posted 904

Mod Confirmed Town

A. Town Gunner

Ironclad Townreads

12. Panopticon (Varsoon and Tn5421)

Strong Townreads

3. Beeboy

Townreads

10. Gorkington
7. CheekyTeeky
5. Bins

Townleans

18. Creature (idk everyone thinks he's obvtown but i dont get it, i guess he can be kind of town still for now)
2. MariaR [Non-Indicative -> Townlean]
4. Thor665 [Neutral -> Townlean] (Would be higher but I don't like 1151 or 1236 much)
21. Nero Cain [Neutral -> Townlean] (I disagree with your assessment but still think you're more town for it)

Neutrals

15. Spiffeh (Liked a few of your posts but I'd like to see you consider voting someone besides Brian, at least for day 1. Even if he is cheerleading atm.)
6. Ausuka [Scumlean -> Neutral]
11. GreyICE [Scumread -> Neutral] (I'll admit this one stings my pride)
14. Srceenplay [Townlean -> Neutral]
20. Brian Skies [Townlean -> Neutral] (You're cheerleading, not scumhunting)

Non Indicatives

13. The Worst (still ded af)

Scumlean

19. Centipede Syndrome (Ellibereth+Chara)
8. Hopkirk [Neutral -> Scumlean] (Varsoon scumreads him, not very impressed with recent play either)
16. Brigand Vvulf [Neutral -> Scumlean] (Don't like that you have us as town with no interaction with us whatsoever)

Scumreads

9. Quick [Strong Scumread -> Scumread] (Sadly not the literal worst)
1. Toranaga [Scumlean -> Scumread]

Strong Scumreads

17. Tchill13 [Non-Indicative -> Strong Scumread] (Do something to help town if you ever want to get off this list)

Mod Confirmed Scum

B. Mafia Gunner (proven unvotable by page 2, @Quick, stop being fake)

~The Observer

[Panopticon]

Eh.

I'll just reset.

lol wut

[Panopticon]

What exactly am I cheerleading?

Your iso would seem to indicate that you'd like to vote Hopkirk but you're actually voting....srceenplay? right now?

But you haven't interacted with him at all for a while unless I'm fuckin blind.

~The Observer

[Panopticon]

tchill is still scummy.

Hence my vote.

[Panopticon]

Slight Scumlean
Srceen - My gut says otherwise, but I feel like this post is unnecessarily nitpicky (and I feel like that's more of something scum might do). I'm also not getting good vibes from his hardtunnel on the Quick slot. So it's probably more appropriate to put him here even though

I'm also not a fan of his immediate reaction to Thor.

Not really sure what I could be engaging or interacting with him on, so...?

You're really not sure?

THEN WHY ARE YOU VOTING HIM

[Panopticon]

Because I think he's scum.

sigh

Why do you think he's scum? Surely there is a reason or two, and that is

something you could ask him about

.

AKA: What you could be engaging or interacting with him about.

So why do you seem to think you have

nothing

to engage or interact with him about?

[Panopticon]

@Toran/Nero: please townread each other.
VOTE: Panoptican
First five Tchill votes are still nice. It gets a bit worse as it goes on.
Hey Tchill, I asked you one question and you didn’t answer it. I dislike it when people don’t answer my questions. (ok Brian)
Thor’s Screen interaction isn’t great.
I’ll sheep Chara/Elli unless it’s on a strong townread.

Hello? Reasoning please.

It gets a bit worse as it goes on.

why are you being vague instead of direct about the votes you find questionable?

Because he'd have to admit his reason for voting me is mostly bullshit.

OK, so yesterday I was thinking Ausuka, cheeky, Hop, Nero, and beeboy were all in a hood.

Gork has a good point on counterwagons.
UNVOTE: Pan

Did you mean to quote something else, because this quote isn't really relevant, at all.

Spoiler: grey is towny now

Oh and I absolutely promise to hammer Quick if he's at L-1, regardless of anything. It's pro-town.

it looks like screenplay is not gaining any traction so

VOTE: nero

a couple of his recent posts rubbed me the wrong way

Look, you're town, so I'm going to let you in on the sad thing about these large games. It takes 11 to lynch. There's probably 5 scum, leaving 16 townies. That means if six townies decide to play The Lone Ranger and go off on their own, we would be unable to lynch anyone the scum didn't want us to lynch. In point of fact,

even if the person you are voting is scum

this is true - with 5 scum, there's enough we could split our vote between scumbags and still not get anywhere.

In short, Lone Ranger votes like these rarely accomplish something, even if they happen to land on scum. So try to sell us, or try to work with us. Nero's posts legit aren't great, but something like this isn't really going to sell us. It's a weak vote, that puts no pressure on Nero (because he needs 10 more to get lynched) and doesn't really even have bullet points for him to address (and potentially make himself look scummy). It's effectively a non-post due to game size.

If this was a micro things like this can work, because there's so few people that just putting a vote out there is important, but in a game like this you aren't even 10% of a lynch wagon. So please, lets work together.

You know this game is in a bad state when GreyICE is making sense.

VOTE: Grey

Can we get a Grey wagon going?

1. He refuses to engage with me
   
2. Creature said he can't be TSTBS
   
3. His behavior is Scummy af

No. tchill is today's wagon, no deviation allowed, absent a literal scum claim.

Toranaga is being replaced and may no longer post.

WotM'd day 1, that's a new low.

yes, I agree that tchill is comparatively more scummy than nero, and the ISOs will faithfully reflect this, but the reason I'm less inclined to lynch tchill is largely due to the fact that it is a low information lynch because few people have had real interactions with him, namely toranaga and you. We can always lynch tchill later on if this doesn't not change but he is a small fish in a large pond

On the other hand, it's actually better to get it out of the way now. If he's scum, he's marked by his team as lynch bait and they will change how they interact with him, which will give us less information than flipping him today. I also agree with GreyICE that the only good scum is a dead scum.

Ah, so you finally decided. So Brigand Vvulf wants to line up the lynch of a poor innocent Tchill, and then lynch poor innocent Nero Cain. Nero, if that's the case, why not vote Tchill? It's not like he's done a damn thing to give anyone in the game a reason NOT to vote him.

See, lining up lynches usually looks like "vote major wagon because it's pretty good, also player X looks scummy we should probably look at player X tomorrow". NOT doing the heavy lifting of making a case and a wagon on you. Oh yeah brother, your posts was complete horseshit.

I'm not sure I want to pursue this over tchill today. But it's something I'm willing to look into tomorrow.

~The Observer

[Panopticon]

elli apparently made a program that can enter in people's play in various games and determine if theyre scum based on it

I call bullshit.

who will call people potatoes now?
):

I guess that falls to me, wouldn't you say, oddly friendly potato?

~The Observer

[Panopticon]

well, given that i kind of think youre scum right now, it would certainly be in your best interest to discredit such a thing if maria is scum, wouldnt it?

Please explain how you'd go about assessing a metric fuckton of subjective tells, patterns, and tendencies. It would be hell to code and would technically constitute cheating, one would think.

[Panopticon]

I don't have anything to fear....this game

[Panopticon]

I could argue that it constitutes an outside influence above and beyond mere knowledge.

[Panopticon]

That's because it doesn't, chara. At least not to the extent that it can't be wrong.

[Panopticon]

Am I allowed to do that?

Sure, but it will probably make you look scummy.

[Panopticon]

I don't care.

handwaves

[Panopticon]

Panopticon: so you're shading the Maria read based on what? that we're scum

or the fact that nothing could possibly be 100% accurate

? are you 100% accurate?

[1]

she's scum.

[2]

i'm completely convinced of this and i hope Gork, Grey, etc. go through with lynching her if we die first.
Panopticon is a great buddy candidate, also!

[3]

:>

pedit: you can if you want. didn't realize you disliked me so much, Brian.

1: I am not. It is not possible. And I'm not sure I would want to be if it were possible.
2: I'm willing to lynch it if you flip town at some point.
3: Is that your bot read or is this now a human player?

@brian, The Observer aka tn5421, since Varsoon outed his head name in his first post when i specifically said we weren't going to...

[Panopticon]

wew i answered another question not aimed at me, neat

[Panopticon]

Hey, Nero, why act like you're not going to get lynched today?

Also, I really can't stand this Tchill guy, I'm still cool with offing him.

-ObserVed

[Panopticon]

Nah, I just wanna know where the confidence comes from.

I still think tchill's the best lynch, given what I've read.

-ObserVed

[Panopticon]

@chara

, if you and elli are scumreading maria and its just based on regular scumhunting, can we get some unpacked reasoning then as to why?

2. MariaR [Non-Indicative -> Townlean]

can you walk me through why you upgraded maria here?
and where your head is currently at on her play in general?

Right now my play is leading me into wanting to

jump off a cliff

take a break from this game.

Maria townlean came from her posts in isolation from 16-22

[Panopticon]

Idk if you're serious about soft claiming control of the Gunner but Gork is a tremendously bad shot at this point and I'd appreciate if you didn't do that

Gork is a tremendously bad shot and if you even joke about making it again we will move our vote to you, previous town read be damned.

[Panopticon]

Oops that was @maria

[Panopticon]

Sorta sucks this game isn't something like a bunch of dayvigs.

That game was hell and I'd have vetoed our join here if this was the case.

[Panopticon]

This is my first game in a long while and it's rapidly convincing me to stay the fuck away from mafia.

~tn5421

[Panopticon]

Why?

Because I can't stand the 100 page day 1 meta, or the extreme resistance to lynching spamposters who only hurt town (eg: Quick). It's a waste of time for everyone involved and makes the game harder to participate in and also makes it less fun.

[Panopticon]

This is my first game in a long while and it's rapidly convincing me to stay the fuck away from mafia.

~tn5421

just because there are players scumreading you?

go be a bridge troll somewhere else

[Panopticon]

and also makes it less fun.

idk, socialization is like the fun part (besides lynching scum).

I replaced out of a game where Marquis replaced in and then proceeded to shitpost more than 25 posts in a row.

[Panopticon]

and also makes it less fun.

idk, socialization is like the fun part (besides lynching scum).

I replaced out of a game where Marquis replaced in and then proceeded to shitpost more than 25 posts in a row.

Marquis really did that?

Micro 333

[Panopticon]

and also makes it less fun.

idk, socialization is like the fun part (besides lynching scum).

I replaced out of a game where Marquis replaced in and then proceeded to shitpost more than 25 posts in a row.

Marquis really did that?

Micro 333

viewtopic.php?f=84&t=50093
sorry i forgot to link

[Panopticon]

or if you prefer questions with names: what do you think about Brigand's stuff lately?

Brigands play was decent the last time i looked, i'll look again real quick in iso.

Nothing decent since 1525. not like I can complain since I'm not goodposting either, but something to keep in mind. He is not in the lynch pool for today. And not tomorrow either, barring a guilty/scumclaim/extraordinary situation.

And yes, I prefer questions with names. More direction is always better than less.

[Panopticon]

still, don't take the strike out as a vacation ticket.

Got it

[Panopticon]

I'd be more present in this game if it was even possible.
If you think that my inability to keep up and produce the volume of content that some posters here have is a problem, I guess we'll beef it out.
I'm curious why the tChill wagon fell apart and, personally, I feel like the resistance to it hitting lynch after 70 fucking pages reflects scum resistance.

-ObserVed

[Panopticon]

Like, nothing in tChill's ISO reflects any reasons why people should've fallen off the wagon, and yet it's down to 3 from being at a consistent 7 or 8.

-ObserVed

[Panopticon]

You know what? Sure
VOTE: MariaR

[Panopticon]

I like Gork's case on Panop. Even more so because I felt like they were trying to fan the flames between me/Spiffeh and me/Hopkirk.

A good part of Girls case on me is varsoon mending about scumclaiming with a gif. You read that right, he's reading me based in part on what someone else said.

~tn5421

[Panopticon]

Gorks got replaced by girls, bah phone.

[Panopticon]

Does the phrase "based in part" not mean anything to you?

The lol thing was also varsoon
"I don't like your reads or your hydra partner you're scum"
Ok

[Panopticon]

Because he explicitly attributed those actions to me/tn5421 not panopticon the hydra.

[Panopticon]

Because it's a blatant misrep

[Panopticon]

Ok, how about this for a read. I think you've got an agenda and that it doesn't have towns best interests in mind.

Not that you vote your actual scumread, like srceenplay

[Panopticon]

The reasons for most of my reads are weak because most of my reads are weak.



Petit obviously that was sarcasm as I'm now voting someone else

[Panopticon]

I think you've got an agenda and that it doesn't have towns best interests in mind.

What agenda would this be?

I'm not sure yet. Or I'd have laid out what I thought it was already

[Panopticon]

VOTE: Brian Skies

So an I the only one allowed to not give 100% accurate, informative, well researched reads? I literally just jotted down how I felt about everybody and categorized them.


Why keep pushing me on something you know to be false, unless you have something to hide, hmm?

I don't need to know the details right this second to know that you don't have towns best interests in mind.

[Panopticon]

Youre scum. Maria or ellis hydra are scum. Gork is back to neutral, quick is still an annoyance, grey is still town, bins is still town, busboy is probably town but needs to post soon.

[Panopticon]

And with that I go to bed 2 hours late.

[Panopticon]

People saying I need to die makes me really depressed.
Lost all my titles and get scumread in a hydra game
It's like junior prom all over again

On the real, though, why don't we have a lynch yet?

-ObserVed

[Panopticon]

I don't think that I've ever thought to myself, "GreyICE is a good player who is a high priority kill target."
Ever.

-ObserVed

[Panopticon]

The current case on me is a scum case, as I am town.
It's that easy.

-ObserVed

[Panopticon]

actually i might be dumb, he might just be saying both are scum for different reasons.
context of previous post kind of makes that more likely.

his confidence level does not match his reasoning though.
>.>

Because it's a blatant misrep

:V
:V
:V
:V
V:V:V
V:
V:

i also think its pretty fucking hot garbage that youre now coming back to respond to the case -
without actually responding to it at all, by just trying to discredit it with a weird roundabout "oh well his one reason is shit and wrong and i never engaged him on it to explain why its wrong so hes null i guess".
literally the worst way you could have responded to me scumreading you.

The reasons for most of my reads are weak because most of my reads are weak.



Petit obviously that was sarcasm as I'm now voting someone else

No. tchill is today's wagon, no deviation allowed, absent a literal scum claim.

youre really walking this back as sarcasm? because it really does not read that way at all.

vote: panopticon

i want this.
i want this in my fucking bones.
theres literally nothing tn is doing thats town.

and i have to be honest, like, i wouldnt be doing my due diligence here if i just flat out trusted elli [and i kind of feel like he should also be seeing panopticon as an obvious buddy option here/it makes me nervous that he doesnt] and if im being even more honest, i was kind of putting a voice in a corner at the back of my mind that was saying that i cant really confidently read her in general.

most of tn's meta sprawls back a few years so theres some level of doubt to be had, but man it just looks so much like this is his scumgame rather than his towngame:
viewtopic.php?f=52&t=65370 [unsigned posts are him]
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=66095

and i think the best reason i can give is that scumtn talks at people when hes scumreading them.
and towntn just tries to get them lynched.

tn is just talking at people in this game.
hes not trying to sort people.
theres nothing genuine about anything hes doing.

theres nothing genuine about doubtcasting someone because theyre scumreading something your hydra partner did because you didnt post it.
theres nothing genuine about anything hes pushed on tchill.
and theres especially nothing genuine about him trying to walk back his read there as not being strong when hes indicated anything but the contrary.

the bonus here is that elli can still be right and pan can still be scum because pan's reaction to elli's program is really really fucking scummy if maria is scum.

theres also some part of me that doesnt like that a maria wagon based entirely on elli's rep and cheeky saying "UR SCUM IF U DONT" basically gives all of these players an excuse to jump on the wagon without actually putting anything behind their vote, which makes the wagon especially hard to hold anyone accountable to that isnt elli on d2 if it flips town.

"i also think its pretty fucking hot garbage that youre now coming back to respond to the case -"

I'm gonna be honest, I lost it in the sea of bullshit spam. Sorry.

"without actually responding to it at all, by just trying to discredit it with a weird roundabout "oh well his one reason is shit and wrong and i never engaged him on it to explain why its wrong so hes null i guess"."
It would be more accurate to say that only one of your points towards my head specifically had any relevance; the rest were aimed at my other head.

"literally the worst way you could have responded to me scumreading you."
And if I were scum, I might give a shit.

":V
:V
:V
:V
V:V:V
V:
V:"

Same.

"youre really walking this back as sarcasm? because it really does not read that way at all."

Sure, I say things I don't mean at all, like literally any words out of my mouth directed to a customer at work.

"theres literally nothing tn is doing thats town."

Ok.

"and i have to be honest, like, i wouldnt be doing my due diligence here if i just flat out trusted elli [and i kind of feel like he should also be seeing panopticon as an obvious buddy option here/it makes me nervous that he doesnt] and if im being even more honest, i was kind of putting a voice in a corner at the back of my mind that was saying that i cant really confidently read her in general.

most of tn's meta sprawls back a few years so theres some level of doubt to be had, but man it just looks so much like this is his scumgame rather than his towngame:
viewtopic.php?f=52&t=65370 [unsigned posts are him]
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=66095

and i think the best reason i can give is that scumtn talks at people when hes scumreading them.
and towntn just tries to get them lynched.

tn is just talking at people in this game.
hes not trying to sort people.
theres nothing genuine about anything hes doing."

This is a fair point and all, but I'm done giving a shit on day fucking one of a huge game. There will be plenty of time later. Like I said earlier, it's what burnt me out of playing mafia for a while. So I'm trying something new.
Also, something you didn't touch on, I rolled scum a very disproportionate amount of times so my town game is actually really weak. I can only think of a handful of times I've actually caught scum without the assistance of power roles.
(further, my wiki has some offsite games linked too, but i haven't updated it in a while)

"theres nothing genuine about doubtcasting someone because theyre scumreading something your hydra partner did because you didnt post it."
There's also nothing genuine about attributing one player's play to another, hydra or not.

"theres nothing genuine about anything hes pushed on tchill."
Really? So I don't push policy lynches day one? And you claim to have ISO'd me?

REALLY?

(policy: lurk; policy: spam; policy: blatant antitown; policy: dumbtelling)

"and theres especially nothing genuine about him trying to walk back his read there as not being strong when hes indicated anything but the contrary."
My gut reads aren't good.

"the bonus here is that elli can still be right and pan can still be scum because pan's reaction to elli's program is really really fucking scummy if maria is scum."
My reaction to that has nothing to do with the game, I'd have attacked it as I had if it were posted in MD.

"theres also some part of me that doesnt like that a maria wagon based entirely on elli's rep and cheeky saying "UR SCUM IF U DONT" basically gives all of these players an excuse to jump on the wagon without actually putting anything behind their vote, which makes the wagon especially hard to hold anyone accountable to that isnt elli on d2 if it flips town."

"That said, with my hands off the game meta wheel, the meta-less stuff you see (and you expect me) to see as scummy, I quite frankly don't because of some perspective on how tn thinks/acts OUTSIDE of games. That's all I really want to say on the matter here but I know there are people in this game who can corrobate with regards to that."

Read: bullheadedly charging into every obstacle available, regardless of placement.

it was admittedly a pretty lazy meta job.
i just really really dont feel like hes town
q.q

zzzzzzzzz

vote: maria

I would complain, but I put the same effort into my reads.

im actually starting to feel slightly better about pano? i think

idk

i dont have a good enough reason to fight that, but if it's been tn i actually get decent vibes rereading their ISO

wait wut

BINS WUT R U DOIN
BINS STAHHHP

You can't just......

ownread

me like this

Why aren't you voting Panoptican? He needs more votes.

Because I'm not scum? Believe it or not.

The current case on me is a scum case, as I am town.
It's that easy.

-ObserVed

WHAT
VARSOON NO
STOP
T
O
P

~tn5421

[Panopticon]

Did you read the role PM now?

That was blatantly a gambit I guarantee you he read his role pm by page 2 at the latest.

[Panopticon]

the worst (17:13)
I long for a talkative scumtean
the worst (17:14)
Scumteam too

But you can't fucking post here can you ya cheeky scumfuck

(moments ago in sitechat)

[Panopticon]

Spoiler: full context

Cerberus v666 (16:49)
I hate the night phase of games
Cerberus v666 (16:49)
as every alignment, just to clarify
Cerberus v666 (16:49)
As scum, my teammates are never around enough to plot and shit properly
Cerberus v666 (16:50)
and as town, it's jsut boring and you can't do anything
Cerberus v666 (16:50)

tn5421 (17:10)
this is why town of salem is popular
tn5421 (17:10)
you can almost always 'do things'
the worst (17:13)
I long for a talkative scumtean
the worst (17:14)
Scumteam too
tn5421 (17:14)
lmao

[Panopticon]

Ty for the scumclaim though [: VOTE: pineappleicon

That's a fucking good d1 dontlynchpool

I'll analyse on catchup. Also want tchill's response to my question!

[Panopticon]

Quick
Toranaga
Gorkington
Nero Cain
Hopkirk

Panopticon

CheekyTeeky (I think)
Ausuka
beeboy (even though he seems to be dead)
Thor665 (might need to recheck)
randomidget

[Panopticon]

VOTE: Quick

[Panopticon]

Anybody that just hopped in that slip is viable.

Anybody that just hopped in that slip is viable.

Anybody that just hopped in that slip is viable.

Anybody that just hopped in that slip is viable.

Anybody that just hopped in that slip is viable.

Anybody that just hopped in that slip is viable.

Anybody that just hopped in that slip is viable.

>admits that it's a scumslip
>still doesn't want to lynch scum
>

[Panopticon]

but for real 2276 is a pretty scummy "gotcha" post. calling it "that slip" is shorthand for "that post where Quick said the scumteam don't have daytalk" and pretending it's synonymous with "that scumslip" is the

actual

definition of a misrep, and not the fake definition people usually throw the word around as.
Grey's recent trajectories aren't much better but i have a bad time of reading logic-oriented players as scummy until i get to know them.
~Chara

what other slip could he have possibly been referring to?

[Panopticon]

100 page day 1 and we're gonna lynch a "scum slip"

Laughable.

Here is a man who knows my stance on slips.

yes we know if you spam enough dumb shit you'll get townread

[Panopticon]

Oh hey tn2551forgot the numbers.

Huh, idk what to ask you besides players that are mostly tone-sortable.

you're better off without my garbage reads right now

[Panopticon]

what other slip could he have possibly been referring to?

...i just told you. he's referring to what you're calling "the slip". how else is he supposed to talk about it besides using that phrasing?

dont fucking meme on me he was clearly referring to quick's most recent shenanigans

[Panopticon]

VOTE: the worst

do i think screen is scum? nah



also tn i can bownread u EVEN IF U ODNT LIKE IT

ulli

[Panopticon]

You missed everyone and everything so far.

All of the things. They happened. And you weren't here wallowing in your misery like the rest of us.

[Panopticon]

Yeah to play in this game you really have to get ready to sink down to the depths of despair.

I'd ask why there's like 200 posts since I last opened this fucking disaster area, but I can't be arsed to care.

depths of despair.

[Panopticon]

Okay, it's bad if GreyICE hasn't read his role PM.

why do people still fuss over this like somehow not reading ur role pm makes you more likely to be scum? lol

first of all if he's town he'll play like a vt

secondly if he's scum that's one fewer scum to coordinate so it's a long term liability

lastly who tf cares

It matters because it's prime WIFOM bait.

[Panopticon]

@MOD: I'm going to be moving to a new apt over the course of this weekend and won't have internet.
So the Varsoon head of this Hydra will be V/LA until I've got regular internet again.

-ObserVed

[Panopticon]

reading panopt - I think reading him requires an understanding of tn's personality, which a lot of people here don't have? Expect him to understand/view things differently than you. (He and quick are the players here I would classify that way - though their "differents" are also different). I think he's town but not close to confident. I think bee will do a good job here once he eventually gets back.

How exactly did you get this read on my personality? I'm legitimately curious.

~tn5421

@Gork: "The Observer" is me, "The ObserVed" is Varsoon.

[Panopticon]

Rules

GENERAL RULES

2. Days end when one of the following events occurs:
-The deadline is reached.

-A player is lynched.

-A town-aligned player is modkilled.

Night 1 when?

[Panopticon]

Can you guys just case me or something I'm not understanding the scum reads on me at all?

People are voting you?
lololol

VOTE: Tchill

~tn5421

[Panopticon]

I'm pretty sure there's nobody important voting you.

[Panopticon]

Can you guys just case me or something I'm not understanding the scum reads on me at all?

People are voting you?
lololol

VOTE: Tchill

~tn5421

What?

tl;dr whoever is scumreading you can keep claiming to be scumreading you until they're blue in the face, but I don't see any votes, so it's clearly not that important.

@the worst: sorry to break your heart but I'm town.

[Panopticon]

I am but I only voted you to PL you and then you started flailing around and pouting like my nephew when he doesn't get ice cream for dinner.

IDK your nephew so that means nothing to me...

OK...

*activate... disengage sequence in 3... 2... 1...*

VOTE: Quick

[Panopticon]

Just skipped 15 pages.
Why'd the maria wagon die?

-ObserVed

[Panopticon]

Oh, that's hella cool.
Why the fuck did Spiffeh think my reaction to Maria being called as scum was worth voting?

-obserVed

[Panopticon]

Hopkirk, I don't understand why/how you're making a pool with me, Bins, and Maria.
Like
I'm not even aware Bins is in this fucking game
What

-obserVed

[Panopticon]

Real talk I was just kind of hoping that maybe I'd start being able to follow along with the game D2 or D3 when there aren't an average of 10+ pages every time I refresh the thread.
I mean, that, or I'd be dead and wouldn't have to worry about it.
It also doesn't help that a lot of players aren't people that I know or are players that I feel I can't really trust/rely on to be a sounding board for getting me invested.

Bins, how much of a part of the game are you? Like, can you help me understand what's going on and all that?
As far as I'm aware, for what I was around for:
People thought I was tn5421.
Tchill and (nero, I think?) were making a bunch of lame scummy posts, so I voted tchill
Someone claimed a guilty on maria
I voted maria
Maria died
Losers like Spiffeh and Hopkirk scumread me out of the maria flip, somehow?
Now I'm here.

I've not heard anything from my other head, we should probably be talking to each other, but every time I talk to him about this game it seems like he's glossing it almost as hard as I am and that he's kind of burnt out and frustrated with the whole gamestate.

It's just not great for me as far as generating reads and contributing.

-obserVed

[Panopticon]

Oh!! Also! I was kind of trying to get into Thor's pocket and he told me (kindly) to fuck off.
And GreyICE thinks they're hot shit and is also a contentious slot, for some reason?

Man, I am doing a right shit job of living up to this hydra's whole namesake gimmick.

-obserVed

[Panopticon]

@Thor: I meant it more as an admission of where I'm at and a reachout.

@Spiffeh: I don't think the scum could've known there'd be a daycop or daykill, so I feel that there's probably scum on the wagon.
You've made the suggestion of 'doing town things' but that strikes me as incredibly bizarre.
Why should I do town things? That seems artificial. If I could just 'do town things', then what's stopping me from that as scum?
Shouldn't your suggestion be more about engagement with the game or catching scum or something?
Like, reck's response seems much more based in actually trying to push me to play the game at hand rather than generate artifice.
It's just strange to me
What do you even define as 'town things'?


-obserVed

[Panopticon]

lol I wrote reck
You both have similar avatars at some point, I think
So I mix the two.
Thor.
I meant Thor.

-obserVed

[Panopticon]

Out of Centipede Syndrome(210), Brian Skies(104), Gorkington(180), Spiffeh(100), Brigand Vvulf(73), Tchill13(90), CheekyTeeky(127), Quick(315), Hopkirk(144)

I still don't like tchill, obviously don't like Hopkirk, and I'm even iffy on Spiffeh and Cheeky.
Of course, that's also probably cus those are the folks I think went for me after?

I could not tell you Centipede or Brian or Vvulf's contributions to this game

-obserVed

[Panopticon]

Cheeky's posts re: the guilty look a shitload like scum bussing for credit. Quick's disbelief is a lil lean scum for me but I could still see that coming from town.

VOTE: CheekyTeeky

-obserVed

[Panopticon]

Yeah--I just realized that when I went back through the pages just now.
It seemed like Centi was originally kind of trying to make it look like they were just leaning hard on Elli's scumread.


-obserVed

[Panopticon]

So one big thing that's been put front and center by the mod and is even more apparent with the flip is that this game is absolutely busted if town can co-ordinate its power.
While I'm not going to advocate for a mass claim because
1. It'd never happen neatly enough
2. It'd be outguessing the mod/strongarming the 'game' in a way that I fundamentally hate
3. Scum probably still have a few ways to shut town power down so it could cost us the game anyway

But I wanna make a footnote here that I think, given this early scum death, a massclaim could technically win the game at this point. We'll return to this idea in post, I guess?

-obserVed

[Panopticon]

Cheeky's posts re: the guilty look a shitload like scum bussing for credit. Quick's disbelief is a lil lean scum for me but I could still see that coming from town.

VOTE: CheekyTeeky

-obserVed

More on this: It's perfectly fine for town to put stock in a claimed guilty D1, but there's no way town corrals for it as hard as Cheeky did. Consider especially the point in the wagon where Cheeky did it, too--it was inevitable the wagon was going to end up in a lynch, so Cheeky used that momentum to try to yesman it and look town for insisting on the merits of the guilty. The lack of reasonably skepticism strikes me as incredibly disingenuous and makes me wholeheartedly believe that Cheeky knew the flip was going to come up Red.

-obserVed

[Panopticon]

Like the only point of reservation I have in this push is that Cheeky was really adamant in pointing to some team mafia meta point as proof that a D1 guilty was actually possible in this game, but even then, that's still something that scum could post just as easily.

-obserVed

[Panopticon]

Then that's all the more reason to think Cheeky's scum for pushing that narrative.

-obserVed

[Panopticon]

I have a hard time believing town chara ever posts this fwiw

Im home a bit later to read what i missed

i didn't realize you had such a comprehensive meta of me, Toranaga! :>

Grey mentioned what i forgot. Ausuka scum = Hopkirk town.

also i'm treating Elli's scumread as a guilty (because it is) so let's find some buddies.

Cheeky took this and ran with it, V.

~tn5421

[Panopticon]

Because...?

We're aiming for important scum, not scum that definitely won't live to endgame like Srceenplay.

I prefer accuracy in lynching when possible, so if we have a caught scum we lynch it. Lost too many games from lynching who we thought was caught scum's partner only for said partner to flip town.

[Panopticon]

That said, GreyICE flipping town and then being resurrected tomorrow would be hilarious.

[Panopticon]

@Brian and Pan

-how do you read Grey?

That said, GreyICE flipping town and then being resurrected tomorrow would be hilarious.

I'd say it's pretty clear.

[Panopticon]

Varsoon scumreads him tho. Or at least nullreads him.

[Panopticon]

There was no guilty on Maria

People stupidly kept referring to Elli's read on Maria as a guilty, but there was no actual guilty

lol ok good

I have a hard time believing town chara ever posts this fwiw

Im home a bit later to read what i missed

i didn't realize you had such a comprehensive meta of me, Toranaga! :>

Grey mentioned what i forgot. Ausuka scum = Hopkirk town.

also i'm treating Elli's scumread as a guilty (because it is) so let's find some buddies.

Cheeky took this and ran with it, V.

~tn5421

"Treating it like it's guilty" got shortened to "its guilty"

[Panopticon]

I've iso'd a huge amount of people. one of them being Centi

never took it as a guilty

missed the beginning of the game mostly but I've been pretty up to date now

Look at my last post, Bins.

[Panopticon]

VOTE: Srceenplay

Srceenplay / tchill / quick / hopkirk are all ok to lynch today

[Panopticon]

Plus the Pan wagon looks pretty pure IMO.

the fact that you're on it, alone, makes it a dogshit wagon.

[Panopticon]

Nah, when I flip town,

I don't have to play this game with you baddies anymore

[Panopticon]

@MOD: What happens if we don't hit a lynch by the deadline?
Thanks.

So the wagon on me is a garbage fire, but I'm trying not to go into adhoc mode and catch a ban, so I'm mostly going to stand by what I said earlier in analysis.

Both heads of this hydra are of the mind that if we get lynched, at least we're freed from the burden of having to win this game for you incompetent dirtbags.
But hey, maybe elli can run his literal cheat machine and produce an inno on me and you chumps can believe in that instead of me obv-towning for 100 pages.
I can't fathom

-obserVed

[Panopticon]

Nah, when I flip town,

I don't have to play this game with you baddies anymore

is quick really a baddie if you think hes scum??

I actually think Quick is a baddie AND scum, but you other guys are such bad-dads that you can't even recog that much.
Like dude MariaR was scum and it took a fookin guilty for people to wagon it
Come on.

I actually don't think everyone who's voted me is a baddie, but I really don't understand a lot of the logic for the votes against me. The casing feels weak.
Like, Gork, I legit do think you're a good player who is scumreading me for a bunch of reasons that might fit if this was a 12p game, but it's noooot.

And, hey, I put my best casing out there--I'm still of the mind that there's scum in (CheekyTeeky, tchill, Toranaga).
I mean, I don't have some huge ironclad case, sorry. I wish I did, but I don't, and it feels like ISO-diving and making one for those players would just be a lot of confirmation bias on my part anyway.

-obserVed

[Panopticon]

Like, I already believe them to be scum, so, if the onus of pushing them is really "where is the case," then whatever case I make is going to be arbitrary and ultimately be me just arguing where I could see scum motivation in their posts, but, like, damn it, I already have stated that I see scum motivation/logic in those places, so can't you evaluate the slots on your own and determine if I'm wrong or not?

-obserVed

[Panopticon]

T'was my other head that ever townleaned the Maria slot. When the 'guilty' was up, I was all for lynching it. I haven't even read -his- posts, so I only know this because I literally went through my ISO due to you saying it took me awhile to come around her and I recall always having a scumread there, but I also didn't start playing this game until dozens of pages in. I was gonna call you out, but I forgot, oh yeah, I'm hydra'd, so I had to check to see what my other head's position re: maria is. Now that I have, I can see more of the reason why people think that I was scum with Maria, though it still strikes me as poor reasoning if only because I never townread the Maria slot and was more than happy to lynch it.

With tchill and toranga, I don't see their crossvoting as town v town, and, like I said, they're both posting in the way I do when I'm scum. Dude even posted the 'You got me' gif, which I've only ever used as scum.

With Cheeky, there's absolutely no way I see town playing corraling for the guilty that hard. It felt manufactured to me.

-obserVed.

[Panopticon]

go read the pages, find scum

y r talking to him as if he's town?

I'm not a stupid tunneler and am always cheritable to other players. I don't -know- tchill is scum, so there's no reason for me to talk to him as if I do.

Lol. That's when Walt admits to being the bad guy in a sarcastic way.

Toranaga if you're actually the bad guy hats off to you for using that gif.

I've fully scumclaimed with gif related before, so, ah, I'm really feeling like there's scum between tortuga and nochill.

-ObserVed

Like the dude outright scumclaimed
smh

-obserVed

[Panopticon]

@Gork: I wish I had more points of engagement with Toradora, then, because, like I said, diving the ISO is just gonna result in conf-biased casing from me.
I get the context with Cheeky, I just don't see it as a town play, but whatever.
And I told you, my reasons for scumreading people aren't great--I don't have an ironclad case anywhere, just gut reactions from the few interactions I actually have had in this game.

Anyone who mimics chess should be lynched on the spot anyway.
Also, you said people were widely ignorning Elli's read, but I recall you pulling all that when the wagon was gaining a lot of traction. Am I wrong?

-obserVed

[Panopticon]

Second bit of that is @Cheeky.
Also, anyone who uses a program to unfairly aide them in mafia should be ashamed of themselves. If a player in one of my games claimed to be doing that, I'd legitimately have to talk to them about it because I see it as unfair out of game advantage.

-obserVed

[Panopticon]

Panopticon do you guys communicate much in your pt?

...we don't have a PT, even.
We've been using discord but we don't talk about the game as much as I'd like to.
I mean outside of stuff like
"this game is a fucking shitpost
one, big, mastin wall shitpost"
The only things we've really discussed are T-Chill and Creature, notably.
Tn's behind me on the t-chill scumread and also doesn't understand why that wagon got as big as it did and then completely disappeared.
I'm townreading Creature but Tn feels uncomfortable with how Creature's pretty much a universal townread here.

@Gork: I dunno, I'd really regret being the chump that loses to scum boldface scumclaiming, I guess.
I also haven't played in any games this large lately--I usually have been in smaller games and I'm way more engaged.
I've also been scum in a lot of my recently completed games.
I did feel rather powerless/frustrated in Reckoner's Just Play the Hits game : viewtopic.php?f=3&t=75175
That said, even though I did a shit job of casing anyone in that game but Mollie, I was still more on top of it, but you'd still get posts like this:

ISO Vote + Mathdino
Read the posts around that

or like
just read the game
wow

-obserVed

[Panopticon]

Oh actually, that's a lie, we do have a PT for this game, it's got 4 posts in it.
whoops.

-obserVed

[Panopticon]

@Cheeky: So... why vote Spiffeh, then?

all im saying is if your main point is a gif its probably not a good case.

It's more than a gif, it's about a man's pride.

-obserVed

[Panopticon]

Nah, when I flip town,

I don't have to play this game with you baddies anymore

man, is scumplaining all you do in this game?

Like, I already believe them to be scum, so, if the onus of pushing them is really "where is the case," then whatever case I make is going to be arbitrary and ultimately be me just arguing where I could see scum motivation in their posts, but, like, damn it, I already have stated that I see scum motivation/logic in those places, so can't you evaluate the slots on your own and determine if I'm wrong or not?

-obserVed

i'll take an arbitrary case filled with confBias over "just look at the slots im scumreading and tell me if I'm right" any day

you're gonna look real shitty when we flip town

[Panopticon]

@Shad:

Can you unvote our slot if you're not scumreading us? Quick was a fucking scumbag and left a vote on the biggest wagon WHILE replacing out, which shouldn't even be allowed. Note to self: add a rule to all my games that replacing out also counts as unvoting.

@Hopkirk:

What questions?

Your slot hasn't done that yet, and I've previously explained why I think you guys are scummy.

I wonder how it feels to be literally wrong, and if it bothers you that you've been playing mafia for several years and still don't have a grasp on what makes someone town or not.
Surely, after I eventually die in this game (and I will die), you'll look back and think, "Oh boy, I sure was wrong, maybe I should re-evaluate how I approach scumhunting"?
I mean, probably not. You'll probably just rationalize that I'm playing like shit and not accept any responsibility or improve as a player.

Both heads of this hydra are of the mind that if we get lynched, at least we're freed from the burden of having to win this game for you incompetent dirtbags.

Tbh labeling people in this game incompetent dirtbags doesn't make much sense since most of the people currently on your wagon had been on the Maria wagon when she died and ended up flipping scum, while your slot was hopping from Maria counter wagon to Maria counter wagon

Literally false, as I've always stuck to Maria as long as I was alive and posting and aware of the guilty, but, furthermore, do you really think scum (especially scum in my position) is more likely to prop obvious counterwagons when there's an in-thread 1v1 guilty on a scum slot? Are you fucking daft?

Why do you keep tossing up smokescreens instead of replacing out?
Because either you both hate the game (in which case replace out)
Or you're lying about how much you hate the game.

Which is it?

I don't see expressing my current level of engagement or reaching out for help getting engaged as a smokescreen. Fuck off with that.
I don't hate the game. I dislike that I don't have the proper time to engage with the current D1 pace, but both my free time and the pace of the game won't be issues moving forward.
Furthermore, the mod specifically asked me to sign up.
I don't like replacing out of the game because it places undue stress on the integrity of the game.
Finally, I really do want to play a closed game with my friend Tn, and not many Closed setups go into signups allowing hydras.

We really don't have a lot of time left in the day phase and I'm not excited about being a deadline lynch, but, fuck it.
When we die, every player that was voting for us also dies.

-obserVed

[Panopticon]

VOTE: Hopkirk

I think we have found some actual scum, now.

~tn5421

[Panopticon]

Spoiler: The entire sum of interactions between Panopticon and Hopkirk

Are there any people here I shouldn't townread: Panoptican, Brigand, Brian, Centipede, Creature, Cheeky

@Ausuka: how do you feel about large games?

ok
i see that

stuff after with the “maybe i am maybe i’m not” was weird but i get the villager claim thing

that’s fine i’ll move on
but embrace the scumreads,
there was likely annoying scum pushing on you

Want to hear your thoughts here too.

At this point I'm fully willing to lynch Quick and Toranaga for being spammy as fuck, and Ausuka and Hopkirk for being scum.

All four of these reads are bad reads.

I think Panopticon looks p. bad and no one is talking about them

Get a wagon going on him and I'd back it.
I'd actually kind of like to see you off Brian and onto Hopkirk, personally, but Panopticon looks more interesting than Brian as a wagon to me also, which makes me wonder why you're spinning your wheels there.
I can't even recall the last point anyone really advanced much on him - though I'll admit 10 pages back only takes us to yesterday evening, but still

Refresh your stale read or move?

Why Hop scum? I assume it's serious now.

Atleast Thor can be town for now

Interested in hearing why since I townread you/tort.

Panoptican's read list in 904 looks uncontoversial/able to vote anyone who might be voted soon.
Not paying attention to me alone is sinful and scummy.

VOTE: Pan VOTE:

Nero is clear and so is hopkirk.

What about Beeboy?

VOTE: Pan

I feel at least a bit good about: Toranaga, MariaR, Beeboy, Ausuka, Cheeky, Quick, Brian, Nero, Brigand (a bit), Screen (a bit)

Zone of people I need to interact with: The Worst, Tchill, Panoptican UNVOTE: panoptican, Bins, Spiffeh

Hive of potential scum and villany: Thor665, Gorkington, GreyIce, Centipede

@Toran/Nero: please townread each other.
VOTE: Panoptican
First five Tchill votes are still nice. It gets a bit worse as it goes on.
Hey Tchill, I asked you one question and you didn’t answer it. I dislike it when people don’t answer my questions. (ok Brian)
Thor’s Screen interaction isn’t great.
I’ll sheep Chara/Elli unless it’s on a strong townread.

OK, so yesterday I was thinking Ausuka, cheeky, Hop, Nero, and beeboy were all in a hood.

Gork has a good point on counterwagons.
UNVOTE: Pan

@Toran/Nero: please townread each other.
VOTE: Panoptican
First five Tchill votes are still nice. It gets a bit worse as it goes on.
Hey Tchill, I asked you one question and you didn’t answer it. I dislike it when people don’t answer my questions. (ok Brian)
Thor’s Screen interaction isn’t great.
I’ll sheep Chara/Elli unless it’s on a strong townread.

Hello? Reasoning please.

It gets a bit worse as it goes on.

why are you being vague instead of direct about the votes you find questionable?

Because he'd have to admit his reason for voting me is mostly bullshit.

OK, so yesterday I was thinking Ausuka, cheeky, Hop, Nero, and beeboy were all in a hood.

Gork has a good point on counterwagons.
UNVOTE: Pan

Did you mean to quote something else, because this quote isn't really relevant, at all.

Oh and I absolutely promise to hammer Quick if he's at L-1, regardless of anything. It's pro-town.

it looks like screenplay is not gaining any traction so

VOTE: nero

a couple of his recent posts rubbed me the wrong way

Look, you're town, so I'm going to let you in on the sad thing about these large games. It takes 11 to lynch. There's probably 5 scum, leaving 16 townies. That means if six townies decide to play The Lone Ranger and go off on their own, we would be unable to lynch anyone the scum didn't want us to lynch. In point of fact,

even if the person you are voting is scum

this is true - with 5 scum, there's enough we could split our vote between scumbags and still not get anywhere.

In short, Lone Ranger votes like these rarely accomplish something, even if they happen to land on scum. So try to sell us, or try to work with us. Nero's posts legit aren't great, but something like this isn't really going to sell us. It's a weak vote, that puts no pressure on Nero (because he needs 10 more to get lynched) and doesn't really even have bullet points for him to address (and potentially make himself look scummy). It's effectively a non-post due to game size.

If this was a micro things like this can work, because there's so few people that just putting a vote out there is important, but in a game like this you aren't even 10% of a lynch wagon. So please, lets work together.

You know this game is in a bad state when GreyICE is making sense.

VOTE: Grey

Can we get a Grey wagon going?

1. He refuses to engage with me
   
2. Creature said he can't be TSTBS
   
3. His behavior is Scummy af

No. tchill is today's wagon, no deviation allowed, absent a literal scum claim.

Toranaga is being replaced and may no longer post.

WotM'd day 1, that's a new low.

yes, I agree that tchill is comparatively more scummy than nero, and the ISOs will faithfully reflect this, but the reason I'm less inclined to lynch tchill is largely due to the fact that it is a low information lynch because few people have had real interactions with him, namely toranaga and you. We can always lynch tchill later on if this doesn't not change but he is a small fish in a large pond

On the other hand, it's actually better to get it out of the way now. If he's scum, he's marked by his team as lynch bait and they will change how they interact with him, which will give us less information than flipping him today. I also agree with GreyICE that the only good scum is a dead scum.

Ah, so you finally decided. So Brigand Vvulf wants to line up the lynch of a poor innocent Tchill, and then lynch poor innocent Nero Cain. Nero, if that's the case, why not vote Tchill? It's not like he's done a damn thing to give anyone in the game a reason NOT to vote him.

See, lining up lynches usually looks like "vote major wagon because it's pretty good, also player X looks scummy we should probably look at player X tomorrow". NOT doing the heavy lifting of making a case and a wagon on you. Oh yeah brother, your posts was complete horseshit.

I'm not sure I want to pursue this over tchill today. But it's something I'm willing to look into tomorrow.

~The Observer

This post is Pan scumclaiming.

Panoptican is just scum in response to Centy.

Townpool A: Creature/Beeboy/Cheeky/Quick/Brian/Nero/Torn/Ausuka
Townpool B: Brigand/Screen/Gorkington
POE pool (including neutrals): Thor/Spiffeh/Bins/TheWorst/Maria/GreyICE/Panopticon/Centipede/TChill

If you are in my townpools, please help me shrink my POE pool.

I'll go for GI before Pan if you do.

People pushed a few people including Quick and regretted it because those were bad pushes.
There's a kind of big wagon on Tchill.
We're voting GreyIce then lynching Panoptican.
A powerful algorithm has MariaR as scum.
Lots of people are towny which is good.
Claiming might be punished.
Your slot was very town.

Being reminded of Kidney mafia makes me want to lynch MariaR more. Backed off of two scum d1 due to pr stuff.

MariaR is a decent lynch.
Pan needs to die soon.

Someone give me a reason to TR Bins because I don’t have one.

Lynchpool for me today: Pan/Grey/MariaR/Bins/The worst/Tchill.

Thor/Centipede/Spiffeh aren't townreads, but wouldn't like to lynch there today.

Pan/Grey/MariaR/Bins/The worst/Tchill.

STOP NAMING PEOPLE IM SLOTTING AS LYNCHBAIT TOWN

My perceptions are coloured by people who looked like lynchbait town making up a heck of a lot of the recent scumteams I've seen.

Which ones are lynchbait town there though.

just grey means personality, like he intended it from the start
thinking someone experienced only does x as town is kind of eh. Stave off the day one lynch by rep and wifom and it's not tactically bad.

Pan needs to be

redeemed]/i] with fire.

Why aren't you voting Panoptican? He needs more votes.

I don't believe you didn't open it.

I mean, its obvious as fuck that he DID open it b/c its against site rules to not look at it.

IDK what the current VC is but town prob needs a lynch at this point. Any of Maria/GreyIce/Quick/Bins are good lynches I think.

3 of those are good
I assume TW isn't there because no associations
Why not Pan?

VOTE: Panoptican

Serious vote. We're lynching here today.

Switch back, we're wagoning Pan now.

Pan/Bins/MariaR- to lynch
The wost/Grey- to reread and sort
Thor/Centipede/Spiffeh- to sort post d1

'partners' won't necesarily be scum unless it's fully based on associations.
Pan for example fits, but is also likely scum by their own play.
Bins needs attention sometime.

VOTE: Panoptican

Pan/Bins/

MariaR

The wost/Grey
Thor/

Centipede

/Spiffeh

VOTE: Pan

Losers like Spiffeh and Hopkirk scumread me out of the maria flip, somehow?

Wow. You're seriously saying I only scumread you after MariaR's flip?

You should also really go through yourcase on me Pan, because what you're saying doesn't make any sense, and you haven't laid out any reasons.

where are you @ with the centipede

Town.

Hopkirk, I don't understand why/how you're making a pool with me, Bins, and Maria.
Like
I'm not even aware Bins is in this fucking game
What

-obserVed

dude

but seriously hop
maria and i aren’t scum together

I'm listening for why.

Lets vote Pan and/or Grey.

There's lynchbait and there's lynchbait that flips scum.

Still waiting for Pan to answer the questions I responded to them with.
Or for their lynch. Either way is fine.

Lynch Pan, daykill Grey tomorrow.

This was very much a sideways swapout for the Quick slot.

Screen is townie and the wagon composition there is awful.
Tchill is a worse wagon.
Grey is a fine wagon.

I agree Tchill is a poor wagon at this stage - what's the beef with the Srceen wagon comp? It looks fine as long as you ignore the random and unsupported Grey=scum concept.

Grey/Pan scum and Thor possible scum.
Counterwagon to Pan wagon.
I like Screen's tone. Hang on a minute here.

Can you explain why you townread PAn while I quote stuff

This was very much a sideways swapout for the Quick slot.

Screen is townie and the wagon composition there is awful.
Tchill is a worse wagon.
Grey is a fine wagon.

I agree Tchill is a poor wagon at this stage - what's the beef with the Srceen wagon comp? It looks fine as long as you ignore the random and unsupported Grey=scum concept.

Grey/Pan scum and Thor possible scum.
Counterwagon to Pan wagon.
I like Screen's tone. Hang on a minute here.

Yeah, beacuse 2-3 scum are on one wagon.

Also, Panop is a counter to the Srceen wagon - learn to note when a wagon picks up steam?
Srceen was, functionally, a counter to Tchill methinks - which you agree was iffy, so...?

Three scum is definitely unlikely. Pan+one other is likely as a Pan counterwagon To make up numbers that feel kind of right, 40% you, 50% Grey, 80% Pan for flipping scum.

You forgot to explain why I was scum at any point btw I think? Might have missed a page or few somewhere though.

I don't really remember which way around Pan/Screen was.

I townread your entire would vote pool to varying degrees. Are your lists in order?
Why town Pan?

Last interaction we had was me responding to you unless this is an invisible case.

I fail to see who had the last interaction somehow equates to lack of my presenting of my case - clarify?
Also, if you think ducking presentation of a case is scummy - could you describe your thoughts on Srceenplay doing the same/show me where you think he actually answered the question?
I think you get too tunneled on people who question you.

So your two issues with me are that
a.) I tunneled people who question me.
and
b.) I townread people who scumread me (Brian and Nero) after launching interactions with them.

That's inconsistent reasoning from here.

Not quoting that because whether Screen answered your question as you'd like isn't relevant to my read on him.

I townread your entire would vote pool to varying degrees. Are your lists in order?
Why town Pan?

When I read Pan's posts I get a really strong feeling that they are actually trying to solve the game rather then just make shit up and go through motions in a way that really strikes me as genuine?
Maybe I should be focusing more on there actual conclusions and reads but I am not sure I am pretty comfortable with calling them town for now.


This is by no means an ordered read list. I just copied the playerlist and moved them into 3 pools.

Both heads?

Why am I in your to lynch pool?

viewtopic.php?p=10110849#p10110849

@Hopkirk - y'know, done the first time you asked me.

'You look like an opportunistic reactive to me.'
Is not a fully explained case.

So tell me, Hopkirk, how is it that you scumread me when you refuse to interact with me other than to scumpaint me?

~tn5421

[Panopticon]

2893 is the only question you have directed our way that has been unanswered, and that was because it was a blatantly leading question.

Wow. You're seriously saying I only scumread you after MariaR's flip?

And to that, I answer yes, because we were explicitly in your POE pool until then, by your own admission.

~tn5421

[Panopticon]

From post 1791 to 1839 & 2157 you went from having us in your POE pool to being in your lynch pool with no explanation given.

[Panopticon]

tn5421 can you try that again without 9000 quotes? Or just explain quickly?

The summary can be seen outside of the spoilers. He has given no reason whatsoever for progressing his read on us from townlean to strong scumread.

[Panopticon]

-

[Panopticon]

Damn I was trying to get that sweet, sweet pagetop.

~tn5421

[Panopticon]

Eat shit, then.

It's clear from Hopkirk's interactions (or lack thereof with us) that his read on us is conjured from fucking thin air and randomly picked from a PoE pool because we're the lowest hanging lynch of the day.

-obserVed

[Panopticon]

Maybe you can not be a total shitter and actually vote scum, but if you're scum, please do keep wagoning me, because I'd be happier with you dead and gone.

-obserVed

[Panopticon]

Didn't really have one and felt like they were just kinda not playing the game and contributing to the current atmosphere that's prolly gonna see me lynched and town losing, so I wasn't really a fan of them but I didn't have any meaningful interactions from which to actually inform that read

BUT AY I COULD PUSH IT AND I'D BE TOWN
JUST LIKE HOPKIRK

-obserVed

[Panopticon]

Ok yeah I'm officially accepting no other lynch other than Panopticon today unless Gorkington or Centipede strongly object (in which case I will probably force them to lynch them anyway)

That's because you're a garbage player.
I'm sorry for taunting your SUPERIOR INTELLIGENCE but instead of proving me wrong by finding scum, you've just doubled down on a losing hand.
I hope you are eternally shamed for your play in this game, because I legitimately believe you are town, but just awful.

-obserVed

[Panopticon]

Like, you brainlet, you're not even posting any reasons for going "OH I WONT WAGON ANYTHING ELSE TODAY" like, yeah, fuck playing mafia and informing your reads and actually catching scum

Goddamn I hate you

[Panopticon]

And, for a second, lemme clarify:
I don't hate you, the person. I think you're actually probably a swell individual and competent human being.
I mean that I hate you as an entity in this game and I think the play you've exhibited in this game is brainless.
I don't mean for you to take personal offense is what I'm saying.

<3

-obserVed

[Panopticon]

Motherfucker, how dense are you--I was not made aware that it wasn't an actual guilty until just recently.
Also, stop trying to hold me responsible for some shit my other head did.
Dat wasn't me, so judging MY alignment based on HIS play is backwards as fuck

Also, I haven't insulted EVERYONE on my wagon, just the particularly stupid people pushing me for the worst reasons.

I don't see how you being a dick like this is supposed to help me 'do town things', as fucking nebulous of a hurdle as that is that you've set

-obserVed

[Panopticon]

Like holy shit stop pressuring me to justify fucking plays I didn't make
This is what white people must feel like for being held accountable for all the horrible shit they've done hundreds of years ago.

-obserVed

[Panopticon]

This is a game with confirmed resurrection mechanics, claim-punishment mechanics, and dayvigilante
You think it's dumb of me to believe someone's a daycop?

-obserVed

[Panopticon]

I asked why the tchill wagon fell apart despite having 7 or 8 votes backing and I was literally hit with

Um if Elli has a guilty on MariaR you all should listen.

and then my next post is voting there, like
How the fuck
do you not

@Spiffeh : THEN IT IS LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE FOR ME, AS A PLAYER, TO CHANGE YOUR STUPID FUCKING WRONG CONCLUSION ABOUT MY ALIGNMENT
SO WHAT THE FUCK AM I EVEN SUPPOSED TO DO THEN?

-obserVed

[Panopticon]

Scum is the best lynch for today, I am the fucking worst lynch
Like holy shit have you not been READING
I am such a goddamn bad lynch for us today that if you lynch me today, the fallout that I'll have will be fucking Vesuvian.

-obserVed

[Panopticon]

Yes, but any actual umbrage that I've levied against the people voting me has been either met with deaf ears or called as omgus flailing attempts.
Like fuck I feel suffocated.
I've got a case that both heads of this wagon agree on re: Hopkirk, who has been an outspoken person wagoning us all day
I really would like a lynch there
but noooooooo

-obserVed

[Panopticon]

It's clear from Hopkirk's interactions (or lack thereof with us) that his read on us is conjured from fucking thin air and randomly picked from a PoE pool because we're the lowest hanging lynch of the day.

-obserVed

IT REALLY SHOULDN'T NEED MORE ELABORATION THAN THIS

The quotes that my other head pulled illustrate those interactions and prove this.
But you know what people said
"lol no" and shit like that


-obserVed

[Panopticon]

Like, has Brigand Vvulf even done anything since voting me? No? Useless. Probably scum, followed by Hopkirk.
I think Spiffeh, Worst, and Shad are more likely town on the wagon.
I can't make heads or tails of Ausuka, but I lean it more scum than town.

-obserVed

[Panopticon]

Activity Overview, bottom right corner:
Quick Apr 15, 03:29pm Apr 22, 01:02pm 0 days 6 hours 346
Creature Apr 15, 12:16pm Apr 22, 06:29pm 0 days 1 hour 290
Centipede Syndrome Apr 15, 12:13pm Apr 20, 09:14pm 1 day 22 hours 205
Gorkington Apr 15, 12:12pm Apr 22, 01:17pm 0 days 6 hours 192
Nero Cain Apr 15, 12:00pm Apr 22, 07:05pm 0 days 0 hours 191
Panopticon Apr 15, 01:18pm Apr 22, 07:25pm 0 days 0 hours 187
Toranaga Apr 15, 01:45pm Apr 17, 01:22pm 5 days 6 hours 175
Hopkirk Apr 15, 01:14pm Apr 22, 02:41pm 0 days 4 hours 173
CheekyTeeky Apr 15, 03:18pm Apr 22, 07:24pm 0 days 0 hours 147
Spiffeh Apr 15, 12:48pm Apr 22, 07:30pm 0 days 0 hours 131
Brian Skies Apr 15, 01:20pm Apr 22, 02:45pm 0 days 4 hours 126
GreyICE Apr 15, 01:48pm Apr 21, 05:09pm 1 day 2 hours 120
Bins Apr 15, 04:03pm Apr 22, 06:28pm 0 days 1 hour 101
Tchill13 Apr 16, 11:01am Apr 22, 01:25pm 0 days 6 hours 94
Ausuka Apr 15, 12:02pm Apr 22, 12:24pm 0 days 7 hours 90
beeboy Apr 15, 12:04pm Apr 22, 02:35pm 0 days 4 hours 86
Brigand Vvulf Apr 15, 01:41pm Apr 22, 12:28pm 0 days 7 hours 83
the worst Apr 15, 10:20pm Apr 22, 05:58pm 0 days 1 hour 80
MariaR Apr 15, 09:19pm Apr 20, 04:40pm 2 days 2 hours 77
Srceenplay Apr 15, 12:05pm Apr 21, 03:12pm 1 day 4 hours 66
Thor665 Apr 15, 03:08pm Apr 22, 06:24pm 0 days 1 hour 62
Mulch Apr 14, 10:36pm Apr 22, 07:22pm 0 days 0 hours 56
Shad Apr 22, 01:14pm Apr 22, 07:28pm 0 days 0 hours 35
northsidegal Apr 15, 11:52am Apr 22, 04:11pm 0 days 3 hours 28
randomidget Apr 18, 01:43pm Apr 21, 04:42pm 1 day 2 hours 14
Ellibereth Apr 15, 03:49pm Apr 20, 06:15pm 2 days 1 hour 6
Chara Apr 15, 12:16pm Apr 20, 04:49pm 2 days 2 hours 3
tn5421 Apr 22, 12:24pm Apr 22, 12:24pm 0 days 7 hours 1

[Panopticon]

Holy shit don't remind me of that game where everyone was acting like I scumslipped because I fundamentally didn't understand the neighborhood faction mechanics, and the people who pushed that narrative the hardest were the bulk of the scum team that WERE IN THE VERY NEIGHBORHOOD I WAS IN. Seriously, fuck that whole D1 sideways, it was one of the most frustrating things I've experienced and I've literally had bombs dropped on the village I was living in.

If you're proposing grey/pan/ausuka, I'd say Ausuka.

-obserVed

[Panopticon]

I'll try to relax, but I still think that there's at least 2 scum on my wagon and I'm more sure of my Hopkirk read than any other read I've got this game.

What's the case v Screenplay, though?

-obserVed

[Panopticon]

I'll have to check it out, then.
We've got about 60 hours to go for a lynch, though, and I'm not going to have internet at all tomorrow.
I'm willing to consolidate onto another wagon if need be, but I would really, really prefer one of Hopkirk/Ausuka/Vvulf.

[Panopticon]

Goodnight self.

Shad, I mean this in the nicest way possible, but

shut the fuck up

. You made 20 posts in the past day, and the content of them could easily fill 2 small posts instead.
~tn

[Panopticon]

@varsoon

, if youre still around, can you give me any examples of towngames where youve gotten this frustrated at being pushed?
3+ games would be an ideal sample for me to peruse.

Really early in my game career I got so pissed I suicided even, but that's really shameful : viewtopic.php?f=52&t=27296
As you mentioned, Advanced Wars : viewtopic.php?f=56&t=59714
I was in a hydra for it in Clue II : viewtopic.php?f=54&t=63155
Since then I've been trying to be better about being as hateful.
You can still get glimpses of it in the game I mentioned earlier (Reckoner's Just play the Hits) and maybe a bit in Maplewood:
viewtopic.php?f=56&t=73801

[Panopticon]

Man, I guess the reality is that I'm the shitter.
Sorry, guys.

VOTE: GreyICE

Though TN is townreading it.

-obserVed

[Panopticon]

UNVOTE: GreyICE

let me finish reading

[Panopticon]

Goodnight self.

Shad, I mean this in the nicest way possible, but

shut the fuck up

. You made 20 posts in the past day, and the content of them could easily fill 2 small posts instead.
~tn

found the reason

If only it worked even half as well on Quick, we might be able to get places.

Pretty sure that was Toranaga calling people potatoes, not Panopticon.

pretty sure varsoon volunteered to assume the responsibility somewhere

I did, as a joke, at Gorkington, while calling him a potato of course.

basically this is noteworthy viewtopic.php?p=10126662&user_select%5B ... #p10126662
then varsoon told it to go away and it did

Varsoon didn't even get to interact with that guy.

Man, I guess the reality is that I'm the shitter.
Sorry, guys.

VOTE: GreyICE

Though TN is townreading it.

-obserVed

Nah if anyone here is letting this slot down it's me.

Eat shit, then.

It's clear from Hopkirk's interactions (or lack thereof with us) that his read on us is conjured from fucking thin air and randomly picked from a PoE pool because we're the lowest hanging lynch of the day.

-obserVed

I guess I'm better than I thought at identifying low hanging fruit since nobody else was pushing you when I started.

Interaction is a two way street. You were voting me first backed by saying two other people scumread me. When I voted you, despite your vote being unexplained, you immediately asked for reasons (the way you hadn't provided it). I said how I disliked your votecount and a specific post around when I voted you. You didn't try to interact with me on the scumread at any point. You've only become concerned with interacting with me now that my vote's been joined by others.

Because your solo yolo vote wasn't relevant to the game at all, especially when the Maria wagon was happening.

I kinda hope Pan flips town so I can laugh at you guys for letting Grey slip by. I guess if Pan flips scum then you guys get to do the opposite.

Any reason's for them being unlikely partners?

Pan's acting angry doesn't help town.

Would be nice if you'd talk to me and not at me like you have been all game. I got enough of that shit from my father than you very much.

Nah, he's not scum with Hopkirk. And Hopkirk is scum.

Nice chainsaw for Hopkirk by the way.

Something to make note of for later.

Unvoting Pan because the meta from people I trust here is enough for reasonable doubt.

And you moved from townleaning me, to hard scumreading me, to unvoting me, all while literally only interacting with me, like, once, and not having even received a response from it.
Fake. As. Fuck.

Spoiler: pocket notes

Hopkirk doesn't care who he lynches

You can see two trends from Hopkirk's early game - he doesn't care who gets lynched, and he gets very angry if someone scumreads him. For instance, here's some of his reads:

Are there any people here I shouldn't townread: Panoptican, Brigand, Brian, Centipede, Creature, Cheeky

@Ausuka: how do you feel about large games?

I feel at least a bit good about: Toranaga, MariaR, Beeboy, Ausuka, Cheeky, Quick, Brian, Nero, Brigand (a bit), Screen (a bit)

Zone of people I need to interact with: The Worst, Tchill, Panoptican UNVOTE: panoptican, Bins, Spiffeh

Hive of potential scum and villany: Thor665, Gorkington, GreyIce, Centipede

I mean note that it's practically reversed from his initial list, with no real thought. In point of fact Centipede veers between the scum pile and hard town, not based on any interactions Hopkirk has with him, but just with how strong the lynch wagon was blowing. Here's centipede's wagon:

Centipede Syndrome(6)

~ CheekyTeeky(51), Creature(71), Gorkington(41), Quick(155), Tchill13(2), Hopkirk(51)

You can clearly see him hopping on here. Yet later he was convinced to vote for Maria late based on a town read on Centipede? Lets see just how true that is:

MariaR(6) ~ Centipede Syndrome(161), CheekyTeeky(107), Creature(152), Tchill13(70), Brian Skies(94), Gorkington(151)

MariaR(7) ~ Centipede Syndrome(180), Brian Skies(101), Gorkington(190), Spiffeh(112), Creature(238), Brigand Vvulf(69), Tchill13(92)

MariaR(9) ~ Centipede Syndrome(210), Brian Skies(104), Gorkington(180), Spiffeh(100), Brigand Vvulf(73), Tchill13(90), CheekyTeeky(127), Quick(315), Hopkirk(144)

Now we finally see a Hopkirk on, late enough to hurt. And his interaction? Try to support Maria's claim and focus on it. On the other hand, we're quite happy to see him around here:

Panopticon (4)- Spiffeh, Brigand Vvulf, CheekyTeeky, Hopkirk

Panopticon is falling apart so he hops on my wagon, with room to audible onto Screenplay.

This guy is transparently scum, and he's scum with Maria

~tn

[Panopticon]

VOTE: Hopkirk

I will be sure to text Varsoon 9001 times to make sure he doesn't move this vote.

[Panopticon]

I was waiting for varsoon to ok this post but he's been afk since i asked last night and hasn't been answering the phone so here it is:

Here, Quick makes a joke response to Nero's joke question:

Whats all happening in your scum PT, Quick?

There's no day talk.... LOL.

The "LOL" makes it pretty obvious that it's a joke. After votes from GreyICE and Nero Cain, your slot votes for Quick as well, later implying that it was for this slip:

VOTE: Quick

Anybody that just hopped in that slip is viable.

>admits that it's a scumslip
>still doesn't want to lynch scum
>

This results in this votecount, where Maria and Quick are within one vote of each other.

In the second quote from above where it becomes apparent that the reason for the Quick vote was because of a slip, he also shades Tchill, another very viable Maria counter wagon at the time. This avoidance of the Maria wagon is all while Pan apparently had what's basically a scum read on Maria:

Youre scum.

Maria or ellis hydra are scum

. Gork is back to neutral, quick is still an annoyance, grey is still town, bins is still town, busboy is probably town but needs to post soon.

Pan literally votes for someone who is "an annoyance" over someone that is 50/50 scum based on the "slip" that obviously wasn't a slip from above. After this post, there is no read or talk about Maria from this slot ever again. They took the easiest excuse they could find to not vote for Maria, and vote/shade all her potential counter wagons.

That's actually NAI for me. Would do as any alignment. Will absolutely be WotC'ing Quick in the future.

This isn't to mention Gork's case on Pan from earlier in the day that basically boils down to:

tn is just talking at people in this game.
hes not trying to sort people.
theres nothing genuine about anything hes doing.

theres nothing genuine about doubtcasting someone because theyre scumreading something your hydra partner did because you didnt post it.
theres nothing genuine about anything hes pushed on tchill.
and theres especially nothing genuine about him trying to walk back his read there as not being strong when hes indicated anything but the contrary.

But everyone in this game doesn't even read it so I'm sure no one knows about that!

I can sort more people later, when I'm not so damn frustrated and angry at the game. I've got a few reads actually sorted out now and quite frankly that's going to have to be enough for day 1.

I felt like his push on you was too opportunistic given the timing of everything. It's annoying me that I keep flip flopping on him so I would appreciate some help clearing his slot si vous plait.

What about the timing was opportunistic? Maria had just flipped leaving Tchill as the leading wagon, and since Panopticon was my second lynch choice after Maria and looked even worse with her flip, I urged people to vote there instead.

If you really want to sort me why don't you ask me questions or do something to make that happen? I think I've provided enough content to make you have an opinion one way or the other so idk how a basically naked vote on me is going to accomplish what you're claiming you want done.

CheekyTeeky I would like a response to this.

You don't get to be completely useless by parking and me without explaining why/trying to engage with me about your suspicions that you apparently have.

But basically everyone on my wagon except for you is allowed to do so, hypocrite. At least you're actually engaging me now.

Like holy shit stop pressuring me to justify fucking plays I didn't make
This is what white people must feel like for being held accountable for all the horrible shit they've done hundreds of years ago.

-obserVed

not gonna lie that was pretty uncalled for, varsoon :<

Varsoon, you know how hydras work?!?!?!?!

You know that if one head is scum then the other one is too because they share the same role PM?!?!?!?

I've explained why I feel the actions your other head took are way more likely to come from scum than town. Thus, I feel he is scum, and since you're a package deal, you are also scum.

I don't need for you to justify play that wasn't yours, I'm explaining to others why your slot is the best lynch for today.

The joke here is that I'm almost always scumread since I used to end up rolling scum at last 50% of the time. I'd actually like to play a fucking town game and do town things without shitters like Quick dumping their toxic waste in the thread.

Observed did you ever consider the possibility that wolves might see you as an easy target for a mislynch and we are not in fact all dumb villagers?

They can have fun with that. Relatively sure our wagon is half scum-driven.

Perhaps you should ask your other head to express that case because what I read did not really reflect the quotes you pulled to validate it.

Did you literally ignore reality?
3092, 3093, 3094, 3096, 3097.
I fucking dare you to tell me that my vote doesn't reflect my read.
Hopkirk has done literally nothing in regards to us other than coast on Spiffeh's bad plays in order to earn towncred from being on our wagon.
"I'm kind of townleaning you but I need to sort you" to "You're my number one scum read, die in a fire" with LITERALLY NO PROGRESSION OF ANY KIND TO DEVELOP THIS READ ORGANICALLY. Also, 3157.

Gork did you read my case-thing from last page? Tn’s vote progression and completely ignoring Maria makes no sense given his stated “read” on her

I'll put it in small, simple words for you.

I. Didn't. Trust. The. Claim. Until. It. Literally. Flipped. Scum.

Pan literally votes for someone who is "an annoyance" over someone that is 50/50 scum based on the "slip" that obviously wasn't a slip from above. After this post, there is no read or talk about Maria from this slot ever again. They took the easiest excuse they could find to not vote for Maria, and vote/shade all her potential counter wagons.

give me a little time to dive some varsoon scumgames to see if i can find him doing something like this at any point.
theres just a big part of me thats worried that tn and varsoon are tripping over themselves really hard as town here.

I don't know how that's going to be helpful, considering that this play came from me, not varsoon. And give me a real reason I was supposed to unconditionally believe in a "not a guilty, but like a guilty guilty, you know, almost the same thing".

im gonna feel dumb as fuck if im letting scumthem off the hook here, but is tn getting frazzled by being pushed by brian and not wanting to lynch maria being more about annoyance with the elli program thing a possible explanation?

I mean he acknowledges that one of Maria or Centipede is scum so it doesn't look like he's completely dismissing it?

I mean, I acknowledged it too, but didn't have a good read on either player. My game at this point had been a goddamn disaster so I played safe and voted a counter wagon.

p-edit: i more mean that like, does it not seem possible that he votes other things in spite of knowing that maria is maybe more likely scum out of unstated spite?

More like, I'd rather get annoyances lynched out of spite, absent proof that someone alive is scum. I've been scumread for it before and will again, I'm sure, not that I care because leaving gutter trash like Quick alive makes the game basically unplayable for me.

Ok I normally would be fine with that but we have like 2 days left til deadline (maybe a little more than that idr) so it would be best of those reasons would come sooner rather than later

GreyICE is probably my second choice but Pan is really just the perfect storm of scumminess and I still don't think I'll be convinced enough by anything else to change my vote

I think you're really reaching here.

[Panopticon]

VOTE: greyice

ready to lynch town

ftfy

[Panopticon]

also hop I told you to iso maria (and I guess me at the same time)
I cant convince you that our interactions are TvS and not SvS but I think its pretty clear

BAE

you got this