Mini Normal 2016 | Otters vs. Penguins | Endgame

[Performer]

What quick start...! Teacher, are you a teacher like bbt ? And hello chill , byron, tommy, garm, and nos.

[Performer]

Ebwop: What a quick start*

[Performer]

Ohh that's awesome, congratulations. Are you also an IC ?

I have a deep passion for performance arts. Nowadays I do dance covers of Kpop dance, and most recently performed at Fanime in San Jose, CA. I enjoy it not only because it's meaningful, but it gives you joy, is wacky, helps you find a reason to get up everyday, is a great source of entertainment, and keeps you fit. I once even auditioned to be a Kpop dance instructor.

Byron LOL. I guess that's us 30+ year olds.

[Performer]

@teacher ah, I see
@bbt I was reading your profile. Also, you are one of the fm players I model my play after
@tommy we have alts in here? Who are they alts of?

VOTE: garmr
Lurkers make me suspicious.

[Performer]

invis: The vote on bbt looked opportunistic. Just randomly sheeped byron at that point, later on pg 5 gets on the wagon on teacher.
VOTE: invisibility

Gustavo: "I’m down for a fast day. I’m getting ready to play a game that ends in 36 hours so I need practice"

FOS: gustavo

This post just screams of suspicion. There's a difference between too fast & too slow.
How can you say this and think We can get something substantial in a fast day of 36 hours?
That's like saying "oh let's quickhammer." If you get lucky, you get a scum flip, if you get unlucky, you get a town pr flip.

Bbt: asked people to follow him in the wagon on lefty - see below for the read on lefty. Said byron was scum. I don't see why. He's null more than anything to me.

Lefty: posting gives me a town tone such as the ones where he asks questions, like the one posed to Nos about the point of his post. I also like his interrogation of bbt on pg 4.

Byron: not sure what to make of his interaction with bbt on pgs 5-6.

Garmr: rvs voted him because he was the last one to the game - hence I suspected him lurking. Shows up, omgus votes me & said I was buddying someone??, later puts up a sharp interrogation post to chill, on pg 4. His questioning and other posts, make me think he's got a sensible head on his shoulders in figuring out the game.

Chill: voted me & mentioned pushing a lurker... what in the? I’ve posted literally just yesterday when the game first began. What’s your definition of lurking?
I like his posting overall, he certainly is proactive like bbt. But other posts like not wanting to lynch specific people, posts like that make me wonder wth? If anything, I'll chalk it up to personal bias, as I have biases too on fm.

Teacher: voted bbt since he didn’t provide reasoning….but it was only pg 3 by that time.

---------------
That's what I got so far.

[Performer]

@gustavo fair enough, you play with a different preference and have some different experience, now I know.

But replying with “perf thinks I’m scum,” then overinflating what I said as some sort of bigotry, and voting me….? I’ve been called a lot of things on FM (partly because people lack deceny), but being a bigot…??
How is what I said to you, intolerance of people having differing opinions? I wasn’t saying your ways are worse. Bigotry and possible scum, are separate.

[Performer]

since a handful of ppl threw lefty out as town lefty probably IS town.

wut
also i don't think you're scum rn

So you first thought chill was suspicious, a little later, you say he's not scum. How'd you get from a to be? All you're saying in your ISO was how suspect he was, then you suddenly change and say he's not scum.

scum also can't adjust their play if they don't know why they're being read a particular way.

But if you’re paying attention it’s easy to spot those changes.

good point. I dont agree with your overall idea but still a good point.

tell me how town benefits from you death tunneling performer? because i actually agree with your "push" of performer. Problem is you know how pointless d1s are. You should also know why a death tunnel d1 is hysterical especially when you have a chance to begin to sort a new player list.

I don’t really think town benefits unless he flips scum. I just don’t see how he as town would dare make such an accusation so I’m assuming he’s scum. What’s most likely going to happen is he’s going to come back and double down and push me and then it will get completely toxic. Even if that doesn’t happen and he apologizes, it’s not going to change my view. I’m basically treating it like a scum claim.

I’ll still comment on other things and if I have to vote elsewhere to end the day I will, but he needs death. If he’s town I can’t trust him. Which is kind of ironic since I believe his avatar is something about working together

Back in the day, I was death tunneled by Jake from State Farm, talah, and a few others. Turned out they and I were town in those games. I've seen scum death tunnel town as well, but death tunneling itself is NAI. I think it's highly antitown.
Instead of voting on scum, you're intent pages down from when you first voted me, so intent to keep up the death tunnel, and even going to say if I'm town, you can't trust me, so I need to be policy lynched?


Dude calm down. If you think I'm that horrid and disrespectful, there are many other games. Seriously. This is Forum Mafia, a game. Nothing I've posted had the intent to be personal attack.

[Performer]

I don't have a strong enough reason to town read Performer (and thus fight his wagon) but that post isn't enough for me to understand how he is the leading wagon either. He needs to get in this game so we can get more from him.

his interpretation wrt to the byron debacle looks like he's trying to play it too safe. he should have had some stance on one of you two.

performer is my top scumread?

I didn't know that

Yeah, of the 4 on my wagon, disliking Nos the most. Added to sr . Feels like he's sliding by and just keeping his read there on me.

BBT/performer scumteam yea nay?

BBT/performer scumteam yea nay?

If performer is scum like I think it’s very possible

I don't know about him defending, but I'd probably defend bbt on d1 almost anyday. Same goes for thor665, implosion, silverwolf, radiantcowbells, and maybe not_mafia.

I need to reread wavemode and sort him, I didn't get why he voted me. Chill did it to pressure a "lurker," and upon seeing more posts from gus, I'm thinking he's more likely town than not.

[Performer]

The vote on my wagon that's most confusing, is wavemode's.

wavemode - said bbt, garm, lefty are probably town, and that's it in that post. Did a bit of interaction in his posting. Got on the teacher wagon. Got on the wagon on me.
tommy posted only 4x, and voted chill. Why do you scumread tommy?
Why do you think I'm scum?

[Performer]

K, adding byron to tr as well. Asked for more content from tommy & me. His read progression looked town on bbt, I could see him thinking bbt was sr if he was being an ass, but then his read progression on bbt changed and he voted invis. I used to read scum as "likelier playing with bad behavior" in my early days too, so. His 432 about thinking I'm suspicious, made sense after I read an ISO on myself.

"I don't feel like Teacher & Performer would be scumbuddies. Tommy makes me a bit anxious, Nos a lot less so. I didn't really have problems with his post."
@gosrir: to which I ask, why do you feel like we aren't scumbuddies?
Why does Nos make you less anxious than tommy? What about now, and why?
You mentioned that you feel good about invisibility. Has anything changed on that read?

[Performer]

@wave
Upon your ISO, I can see where you're coming from about your read on teacher, based on his posts.
I read teacher's question to bbt for reads, as a weird question that was an attempt to sort him. Weird because it was so early to ask him of that, but he's new. I didn't believe that to be a good enough case to vote teacher.

Regarding your sr of me - ok, I can see where you're coming from in that.
Why is invis null for you?

[Performer]

This game is moving very fast . Will need to catch up and post by tomorrow.

[Performer]

I find it weird that even though BBT was calling me scum he never actually voted me. Is there something to be said there or not?

Hmm.

The issue I have about bbt is that he's always been hard to read, even moreso on day 1. I can't figure out if his posts overall are coming from town or from scum. Something his play does remind me of is when Titus and I were vt in a 14-player large normal, titus kept defending me on d1 iirc. It was the weirdest unexpected thing. So, I could see it coming from town but it's not unheard of coming from scum though. Still, I have him on null because his play is always so difficult to ascertain alignment on.
-------------

Let’s start with the SRs on Tommy/Teacher.

I know tommy is low content but, again, there's still substance to his play that I don't like

his first point is idiotic but ok newbtown could say that

when he says "I don't like this, looks like it could come from a scum!BBT buddying a town!Gus" in response to BBT's "I second Gustavo's question." im already like... er wut? but then also in his own post he goes "This is a good point that you ignored BBT could you answer this question?" so its okay for him to second someone's question but it's not okay for BBT to?

then consider the context of the post, we were already well underway in the game and he goes "This games a weird one, on one hand some people have gotten too deep too early and on the other some are stuck in RVS." pretty pointless statement but also it sort of feels like a pseudo-apology for shallow analysis. when looking over how selectively he is trying to poke and prod for meaningless things to throw shade at people with it sounds like scum who knows he hasn't much to contribute but wants to try to explain it away with "well the game is weird". it sort of goes back to that proverb that the evil man runs when nobody is chasing him. on review of that combined with his general lurkiness it's enough for me to color him pink

What's your read on tommy now?
----------
The whole lefty vs gus conversation looks like tvt.

Lefty - what do you think of bbt, wave, gosrir, tommy, and nosferatu?

[Performer]

Nosferatu - has changed from sr to tr for me because he’s trying to talk to gustavo, such as on pg 24. Their interaction causes me to think nos is trying to lessen the cluttering in the thread. Scum would want to cause chaos, speed up a day to lessen information gleaned, and/or stall a day for strategic reason. I don’t get that tone from nos in the nos & gus interaction.

[Performer]

Skim notably I don’t see why Invis saying Gus looks Town for two different reasons in two different instances is something to question. Like Invis just strikes me as a player who reads stuff and says whatever comes to mind at the time and nothing more.

The problem is that's easy to fake as scum, along with the opportunistic vote he made.

He also has not shown himself to be scum

He most definitely has. But I just remembered you’re probably scum so I knew that was a Hail Mary. If town you’d vote a lurker and not make excuses for them.

At this point, do you have any other scumreads?

[Performer]

Pointing out other people rubs me the wrong way. It's double edge, one edge is "these people aren't considered scummy why am" I and the other is "you should scum read these people" Both messages are extremely bad and when you scratch the surface a little you can find plenty of reasons to treat why people would be different.

Pointing out suspicious behavior is something I’ve done all game though. You have to admit I make an excellent point in that post. I made such an excellent point lefty ignores it and drops his scum read on me. It’s kind of frustrating you’re the only one to react to it and somehow your interpretation is that I’m scummy, not him.

I’ve lost all hope in this game. Town would have been better off speeding through day 1 like I suggested. Now I’m fairly confident this game is going to end up like my scum game that just ended. Perfect scum victory.

Link me your scum game you just finished. Not because I think you're scum anymore, but for learning reasons.

Need to read teacher & chill ISOs. Don't know why garm is thinking chill is scummy, from his 633.
-------
offtopic:
Happy birthday, penguinpower!

[Performer]

@chill: to answer your question, this is how I post regardless of alignment. I try to be concise in getting my point across in every post, and am not as active like many players onsite. I'm sorry if that playstyle makes people say that's a reason for me being scummy, but I assure you guys, I'm town.

[Performer]

BBT, Lefty

lean town on invis

Gosrir, Gus, Tommy Egan, Wave

lean scum on byron, Nosferatu, Performer, Teacher

Did your read on nos change since 349?

I was not understanding the case on teacher so I did an ISO on him .
@teacher: based on your ISO, you've been solid on gust being scum for awhile, since 213. Any changes on that read?
Also, who are your other sr and why?

[Performer]

wave - it's been hard for me to read you, I have in my notes that you're still null. Your 527 mentioned you had garm & invis as null, and at the same time you wouldn’t be opposed to their lynches. Anything changed about your null on those 2?

[Performer]

At this point, do you have any other scumreads?

Lefty and bbt

..........

[Performer]

@gustavo let's try this then. Who are your townreads?

[Performer]

VOTE: Aristo

Going to be honest I think aristo is town I don't think gus would of rage quit if he was scum.

Gustavo seemed to have replaced out due to family demands, so...NAI in that sense. I wouldn't say he's the lynch today though, based on what I've seen d1.

I have a few things to follow-up with from what I put on my notes .

Welcome, aristophanes.

[Performer]

Teacher, how do you have only 1 tr after 35 pgs?? And why do you say the invis wagon was toxic? Only toxic person here was potentially gustavo.

Bbt saying I would just tr him on d1 if I was scum, wow....flattering and creepy that he knows that I would do that if I was scum.

Wave - my read on wave was null for all d1, as he’s been hard to read for me. So I further questioned him, and he never answered me, with his next post was regarding hammering invis. What happened there? Suspicious. Seems like purposeful avoiding of answering my inquiring. Moved from null to sr.

@teacher is the bottom part of your post 730 to me? And what about your gustavo talk and other sr?
Starting to wonder about a possible team of teacher, gosrir, and one other. When I reread some posts in d1, it did seem possible. Gosrir kept pushing for teacher’s demise while saying he liked my newer posts. The way he brought teacher & I up, makes me think he was bringing up a probable buddy & someone he knew was town – me.
Invis put gosrir as an sr for him. The below also makes me think he could be operating as mafia rather than as town. Gosrir’s reply about my 504, in his 701 – how did he jump all the way from there, saying he liked invis - to hammer intent – in the span of less than 24 hours?? What's the story behind this? Later, he puts invis at L-1 right before invis’s demise – that series of events doesn’t make me think it’s coming from town.

I think byron's 824 could mean him and bbt are not aligned. Bbt are you town?... On a similar vein, if he and I were partners, we would be insanely good LOL.

[Performer]

Nos why did you sr garmr? Garm , I think nos is town - my read on him hasn't changed since I last posted about him.

The posts on pg 38 are alarming. Hmm.

[Performer]

Can someone else tell me why teacher is a good lynch? Lefty or chill for instance?

I don't like byron's sudden tr on invis on d1, ending with his unvote. though I see both him and bbt have been scumhunting, trying to sort folks. Wave, why do you tr byron for "other reasons?"

[Performer]

Speaking of death, there is someone who I expected as #1 most likely to die, but he didn't. So, now I'm paranoid. I'm never afraid of nks though, I rarely am targeted by anything at night.

@wave I had a question of why you thought chill and I were scum. Also, 667 .
@garm nos was helping gamestate in the drama gustavo caused on d1. My read on him is based partly on his interactions with me and gustavo. He reads seem to have fluidity and his thoughts look consistent, hence his vote on wave via his sr of him from d1. Nos is town imo
@nos thoughts on byron and bbt?

[Performer]

Blah , you did answer my question upon an ISO.
I can't find the one about chill though , and definitely didn't find the one for 667.

[Performer]

I am starting to feel like I'm on an island in how I see the byron v bbt case. Sigh. Need to hear what lefty and chill say as well.

[Performer]

i thought multiball/SK wasn't allowed in minis anymore

I have no idea about that either way. There was presumably no second death either, so there’s that too.

Another option I didn’t think about is if someone was jailed, but this is more murky because either the jailed person was the scum who submitted the shot, or the jailed person was protected from the shot. I wouldn’t claim in this scenario either, because if the latter is true than scum have an easy mechanical reason to lynch a Townie.

@wave upon checking this game and the normal queue rules, there's nothing I saw stopping the game from being multiball. Based on n1 results, it doesn't look like multiball in this game though.
@lefty true, it could've been jailkeeper, doctor, and so on. Maybe even commuter or hider, though I'm not aware of if those would qualify under normal rules but whatever.

VOTE: Nos

My points from d1 still stand.

Refresh my memory, why do you sr nos ?
--------------
@teacher that post of mine you said was me being defensive, was my analysis to the people on my wagon.

I find it odd that nos had wave & garm as sr, garm voted nos, nos ended up voting wave.

I don't know what wave & teacher's reads are , of each other.

And wave ignored my question about his read on garm, a 2nd time. On d1 he stated he had garm at null, yet wouldn't mind a lynch on a null. There was no elaboration there.

Tommy - slight tr on tommy due to his interaction with gosrir on pg 29. They don’t look like they’re the same alignment when I read that, on pg 29.

[Performer]

@wave that's one of the ways I work, partly because of thor665's influence.
527 - got it.
I asked because I can't just assume nothing's changed. Also, it's a way of sorting folks.

[Performer]

Nothing was wrong with your invisibility vote because I was trying to get invisibility lynched. If I feel scum was on invisibility it would have to be you that were most likely scum to me atm.

It has nothing to do with your nos push.

I'm wondering why your pushing Nas as much as I'm wondering why your push got ignred .

I didn't ignore it. I noticed and said something about garm's push on nos.

I was skimming back through teacher's ISO, he voted bbt, gustavo, said I'm scummy. wave said teacher is scummy and said the other folks (other than byron) - lefty & nos, were also his tr. So I'm starting to think teacher is the way to vote. What's the vc right now though?

Can someone else tell me why teacher is a good lynch? Lefty or chill for instance?

I don't like byron's sudden tr on invis on d1, ending with his unvote.

You know, I was looking back at teacher to try and remember why I was scum reading him and outside of his poor early questioning and buddying of Garmr, I can't really remember why. Yet, I still feel good that teacher flips scum. I've got a feeling I've been influenced by other people's posts who I've been townreading and that is where the strength of read came from. Gonna have to look into this when I get some time.

Believe it or not, Byron's unvote on Invis is getting him townreads and it absolutely blows my mind.

Who's townreading his unvote on invis?? I definitely have not tr him for that.

[Performer]

"I don't really ask questions for the purpose of forming reads. Pretty rarely at least."
I can back that up regarding nos when he's town. Iirc, we played at least 1 mini normal years ago where as town, he played with a minimalist style with minimal questioning.

@bbt regarding the byron v bbt, I felt like I was the only person thinking byron was town and you were possibly....scummy.....
The issue is I still have you at null, which is not that surprising because you have been pushing for my tr deaths. First asking people to get on lefty, later voting gustavo slot, , saying gustavo slot is still scummy on d2, and now voting byron.
However, I'm well aware one of my liabilities is that I strongly dislike pushing for my idols' deaths & I have problems reading them , which is why I've been seeking feedback from others. If you & I make it to mylo or lylo somehow, that is one of my worst nightmares because I will be a big liability.
Also, I completely expected you to die on n1 but you are alive, so I have been growing paranoid as to why you're alive. When we played in a mini normal a couple years ago, you died immediately on n1, and we were both town. So, I am going to lose my mind .

Also @chill, I forgot about your question, sorry about that. From the notes I made yesterday , I think you, nos, lefty, byron, and tommy (slight tr) were on my tr side. I moved garm to null because of his push on nos, which has been interesting to say the least.

I need to reread a few of the wall posts on this page & parse through them .

[Performer]

@teacher
"Wrong according to the Wiki – Minis can only have one faction. Also your very next sentence (“I'm not aware of if those would qualify under normal rules”) seems to say you didn’t check the rules. Whats up with that?"
I was only reading this site game rules on pg 1, and the forum queue normal game guidelines .
I didn't check the wiki pages because I expected the rules to be comprehensive in the mini 2016, as well as from the forum queue normal guidelines. I didn't check the wiki rules regarding hider or other roles qualifying under normal rules, so I wasn't aware if they would qualify - but I didn't mind about that part, as I didn't see it's relevance to the game.

Your answer about wave in your post - you said he's a tr of yours? Confusing for me to understand.

I don't get your sr on tommy and aris .... why? Aris slot from the behaviors & the way he pushed for my death on d1, that's town.

[Performer]

"Well he was saying how willing he was to lynch invis before the wagon picked up full pace. He didn't push on it,jump on it,Disagree with it or offer his opinions on it. He just watched. With invis being in the centre of the list (725) yet still being a because of a possible lynch(223). He had the freedom to form any statement he wanted to and seemed to just wait for invis to get lynched on his own or how town would react. Because the way 725 is structured it gives a lot of freedom for a scum player. Because as scum you don't want to yourself lock in to much." -Garmr's post about nos.

So I went through nos's 40+ posts of his ISO, he did state that he had me, gosrir, and invis as his scumreads. He said I wasn't his top sr; later when he voted gosrir, said he wasn't his top sr either; at end of d1, he had his vote still on gosrir but not invis. So, if he was truly town & had invis as a top sr, why did he not vote invis then? This does indeed look scummy after rereading.

And now garmr pushed nos, nos voted wave. That is bizarre. Normally if someone votes town, and the person is town, he will vote back. But not in this case - bizarre....but nos did have a newer readslist which had wave as an sr to him...

I am starting to get conflicted on my nos read. Would town nos do this or scum nos? Chill seems to have meta with scum nos from what I can tell, when chill said if scum had a good team, it would be nos, gustavo (that was posted on d1).

Moving nos to null read.

[Performer]

Ok so I did some more rereading, nos has wave & garm as his sr. I asked nos why, he said he just doesn't tr garm, and that's all he said . Well , that's fishy.
Along with garm casing & voting nos, nos voted wave instead.
The combination of events has made me change my tr -> null -> sr for nos. It looks like nos is trying to vote the people with least resistance & when I analyzed my wagon & garm pushed a case against nos, nos reacted bizarre, which didn't look like it came from town.

Also, I just checked votecounts & if my counts were correct, teacher & nos are at 2 votes apiece for leading wagons. We need 7 for lynch today.
VOTE: nosferatu

[Performer]

Welcome, not mafia!
Off topic: Man. I can't even begin to tell you guys how many games I've been in with nm. I used to always sr him due to his playstyle. But, he's a cool guy.

[Performer]

Will be able to put in more in-depth notes when I get on a computer after work.

I think by this point , a nos/garm/tommy/gosrir flip would help considerably. If nos/garm flip, it should ascertain alignment of the other. Same goes for tommy/gosrir, after reading tommy's ISO. I saw he wanted nos and teacher lynched, and asked why garm was scum.
I don't see how nos and garm are same sided, and tommy and gosrir don't seem same sided either based on my ISO of tommy.

VOTE: garm

[Performer]

@bbt also will have to get back to your questions after work. My notes of my reads on those 4 you asked me about, are better with a computer

[Performer]

Gus tried to make his slut look townier

Gus replace out looked like it was his own personal frustration. When I saw it in the context of him death tunneling, it looked like frustrated town. Scum would likelier keep death tunneling or keep me as lynch potential later. So that comment from gosrir, sounds shady because that's impossible for someone to town up by replacing out. At that point, they're leaving the game. The replace out in context, was town to me.

[Performer]

Starting to townlean wave a little - his reiterations of reading are starting to sound like exasperated town .

Gosrir's 1112 - I don't think I said any of that.

Garm's 1110 is interesting, especially his point 3. Garm mentioned chill voted me for "lurking," which was one of the questionable votes on me in d1. I need to re ISO chill.

[Performer]

Yeah , I don't get scum tone from chill, he's looking genuine here from a re ISO of him.

[Performer]

This is the most involved I think I've ever seen from nos, because of the discussion with garm. Rereading it and trying to absorb it.

[Performer]

Sigh.
These wall posts are hurting me. Just via a skim of the debate, I feel like nos is town.

Teacher's 1166 post on pg 47 , is a sign that he's not working with anyone, and that he has no twisted agenda. So I don't think teacher is scum. The super long debate between garm and nos is like when parents and kids fight, which is hard to watch and a little painful to parse for understanding.

[Performer]

Welcome, ircher.
Have been dealing with another game & I come back to 5 more pages overnight, with garmr who seems to be trolling with nm's avatar. What the ??

Doing catchup.

[Performer]

off topic:

That game was awful, don’t bring it back up.

I AM NO GARMR I AM KAINTEPES

Ugh , that game... we had mariomaniac, you, not_mafia, me, and others.
Kaintepes ended up being scum (unsurprisingly) with soapbar and someone else.

I’ll go back to voting you out of spite if you keep this up.

Hahaha ok I will be serious I needed to have a laugh this game.

---------

why is this town so eager to lose

No.

[Performer]

Tommy has been pushing on nos for so long, and I have slowly read through bbt's case on him

VOTE: tommy

I have nos as tr from the nos v garm long debate. Still feeling uncomfortable about garm being town from today though.

I still feel the same about my points from 1083 as well:

I don't see how nos and garm are same sided, and tommy and gosrir don't seem same sided either based on my ISO of tommy.

[Performer]

Ircher I really don't think nos is scum from what we've seen . I have no clue what not_mafia is doing voting me.

[Performer]

In terms of voting sequentially, I think it's definitely possible for scum teams to do that . I've heard that to keep suspicion off them, they vote nonsequentially, but if they vote in sequence, I would believe that too. I seriously don't think chill if scum here, just looks at his ISO, He doesn't look like he's carrying some agenda.

[Performer]

As d2 progressed, Garm started sounding off due to the tone of his posts and the big push on nos on d2. And as I said before, nos/garm & geo/tommy - I believe are unlikely the same alignments.


I have nos as tr from the nos v garm long debate. Still don't think garm is town.
VOTE: garm

Chill quit changing your voting to anyone other than garm! Also, you've seen my scum game already and I'm not even scum in this game.
I have a good idea of where the 2nd partner is and possibly the 3rd, but that should be a conversation for another day.
-----------
@bbt what are you talking about? How were teacher, garm, & tommy the counterwagons based on that vca you posted?...

[Performer]

If garmr was jail kept then wouldn't this mean he was the scum that's was supposed to kill? How the hell would that clear him? He just hopped on that and tried to get town cred really quick.

I'm telling you. Bbt and garmr. Write it down lock it in. I'll walk through it with anybody.

Garm's talk about being jailkept was just too weird to me. If he's town, which I don't believe he is, it doesn't make sense for him to post that.

Mod: did Ircher know who Byron Jailkept?

. I see some crumbs but want to make sure.

I didn't see any breadcrumbing whatsoever
also I don't think the mod can answer that but I do hope he at least let ircher know who byron jailkept on n1
Speaking of that, I just thought of something - I should review byron & ircher's ISOs for clues on who they jailkept on n1. That could be very helpful.

Ari is probably town for this aloofness

Man...you & ari had such good predecessors on d2 & d1. Towned up your slots . Otherwise I'd probably be against you two by now

[Performer]

I actually didn't see any crumbs . Teacher bringing it up, could be a town sign. So, that's why I thought of looking into their ISOs - could help reads for instance.

I'm curious to hear what geo and wave have to say

@garm what's your read of geo?

[Performer]

Iirc Your push on nos made you null to me and longer tr. Later you continued it, and his response looked genuine tr reaction. So, therefore the read on you changed.

[Performer]

Yeah there's nothing in their ISOs that makes me think they're crumbing. Judging by the way bbt v byron shaped put on d1, by that alone I'd say byron jailed bbt, therefore no nk.

I don't think jk roles should be crumbing anyway, but that's more for post discussion.

Ah, good ole traditional scumhunting.

[Performer]

I'm more certain on garm than geo. As in, I think those are 2 of the team. It's more helpful to work off what we're more certain of. I'm not super certain on geo , which is why I said that talk should be another day.

Teacher I seriously don't see crumbs that he jailed garm. Ircher came out voting garm and saying he's scum, later he backed off so that makes little sense that he jailed garm , due to that sequence of actions I observed.

[Performer]

Doesn't jailkeep work both ways? Prevents a kill and protects from a kill?

[Performer]

I just read up on it. It doesn't confirm alignment. That and The fact that garm is using ircher 's crumbs that only he and teacher brought up, to say he's town due to crumbs ... Lol. You guys must have some interesting reading power because no way would I have thought he's crumbing.

That also implies he jailed garm n1, then someone other than garm killed ircher on n2 after they saw the crumbing.

[Performer]

Wow. Just...wow. Where are you even aiming from with the pr assumptions, geo. And we literally have been talking about how jailkeep doesn't mean someone is conftown.

And garm with the awful reason to suggest someone replace out. Shame on you

[Performer]

Garm what's your read on bbt then.

[Performer]

Off topic:

Wow. Just...wow. Where are you even aiming from with the pr assumptions, geo. And we literally have been talking about how jailkeep doesn't mean someone is conftown.

And garm with the awful reason to suggest someone replace out. Shame on you

Meh I don't actually expect you to replace out. Just learn to actually read, because all your going to do is clog up the thread with useless stuff that's already been gone over.

Ok

[Performer]

To help sort.
Bbt pushed on byron slot hard both days. Based on his ISO, I could see him NOT being town here.

[Performer]

He has advocated lynching every one of my townreads as well, at some point of the game.

[Performer]

Why exactly are you townreading him.

[Performer]

@chill regarding geo - ok
--------
Ugh I Need to re ISO garm then.

---

Wave popping up on d3 with a naked vote. Maybe the it's actually him and geo.

[Performer]

Is the next day phase lylo If we mislynch?

If it's 10-2, that's 8. So, 5v3. I think today is mylo so yes, tomorrow is lylo

---------
I think it's bbt geo wave .
I just did a speed read of garm and noted his 571 , interactions to bbt voting aris, other interactions, and I do recall his town meta having wall posts like this ... Though that was 2 years ago.
Garm if you're really scum in this game, wow I applaud you. Seriously.UNVOTE:

I need to re ISO wave as well.
-----

VOTE: geo
For pushing teacher's death, voting chill .

[Performer]

Yeah it's looking like bbt geo wave . Just finished ISO of wave. Voted me twice in his ISO, posted for tom and teacher and lefty.

[Performer]

Pushed for*

[Performer]

Off topic: Fine I'll look for a less-movement one... I didn't think it would affect anything. Would take some time as I get avatars via vonflare

[Performer]

Man...that case. If it weren't for people so easily pushing teacher for lynch, I would not be tr on teacher . For instance, wave and bbt via their ISOs

[Performer]

I think I already posted why I personally doubt it could be garm anymore. Nos also made a good point about garm and lylo/mylo

[Performer]

I don't want a super speedy day either. Clearly I was not picking up on the jailkeep being on germ n1, from all I've been seeing.

[Performer]

Chill I would've easily put you at l-1 if I was scum in this scenario. And your ISO doesn't give off an agenda, you've been trying to figure things out. Plus, I've seen your scum play.

[Performer]

The slot that started it out was bbt. That's also why I think it's bbt geo wave

[Performer]

Basically yeah. I'm a big user of ISO and reevaluating ISO. From that, it looked like your tone was good for town read. I worked off that like with ari and lefty slots, as a town block

@chill

[Performer]

Sigh .... I seriously don't want another wrong lynch. and since it's mylo and people somehow have bbt as town, I claim

Town Mason.

Can we consolidate on geo please.
Pedit: can we just go with one claim aka me, I don't want mass claim.

[Performer]

We could mass claim but I feel it's too risky to out more folks, despite what's going on. If others think it's a good idea, feel free to though. I just hate that we can't work together as a team, and you're already at L-2.

[Performer]

Uh....I'm saying bbt is not town, I've been paranoid about him all game. Those were literal paranoia posts.

[Performer]

Wow am I the only one scumreading bbt other than gus , lefty, and byron did before they had to go? Sigh....


How did we get 10-3?? Isn't it 10-2 if we mislynch?

[Performer]

Well I sure hope so. I'm still not understanding how this isn't mylo...

[Performer]

Pedit :" sure hope so " was at chill's claim idea

[Performer]

Dude how is bbt town here??? @Wave

[Performer]

@chill I did not know that.

[Performer]

Can we not have anyone claim anymore, then? Then shouldn't that help?

@chill

[Performer]

Lol. Wave, I'm saying why exactly is bbt town?

[Performer]

Dude how is bbt town here??? @Wave

what is this in response to

Im not sure if I should simply laugh at the unbelievable reply here or quit asking you.

In a game long ago, scum used a strategy like this in when replying to my inquiring.

[Performer]

Yeah wave is definitely suspicious. In terms of claiming then, do you want the mason partner to go next?

[Performer]

Ok I see, and I strongly agree.

[Performer]

Was fairly busy on July 4. Did some re ISO of teacher and nos, and - could I have been wrong of my tr of those 2?? That it's actually nos, teach, and geo instead? Maybe that's why I've been the only one scumreading bbt?...
Teacher's continued push on me, along with bbt's vote on Nos this phase, made me re ISO those 2 .
I found the below, telling about teacher:

"Scumleans ordered Lefty/NMaf (my favorite for scum off the wagon), Gus/Aristo, Tommy Egan, Performer."
I have gus slot as tr, tom flipped town, I'm Town Mason.

1171 and 1179 in his ISO further push on his sr list. In his 1166, he was even putting garm and I together as a team - garm who has returned to a tr for me.

Was rereading Wave's 920 post too.

[Performer]

This makes me think teach and gus are opposite alignments. And on the same vein, if garm/nos and geo/tom should be opposite alignments......

@teach dude you are voting me, you've had me sliding down since d1. And you sure seem certain on Gus slot too.

[Performer]

@aris yes vonflare helped me with the avatar

@chill I'm familiar with Robbnva , he tunneled me in a game and he was scum . I need to look at that game and compare to his gameplay in this one.

@mod wasn't I voting geo ? I don't think I was voting wave as the recent vc said.

[Performer]

Chill I DON'T want you lynched. That's partly why I claimed. It's also mylo, and clearly everyone including me, have been misreading folks wrong.

[Performer]

The fact performer claimed then asked that we lynch this very odd and alarming. No need to claim. I'm the one that's gonna get lynched. He obviously thought he'd live through the night phase to validate his other Mason so....

There's more than enough reason to be suspect of performer. WE NEED that other Mason claim.

Dude if I was with geo, why would I fake claim and ask that we lynch my buddy, and defend you?....

[Performer]

Teacher if it's another mislynch, it's mylo....

[Performer]

Wait a minute...so if worst comes to worst, if we have 3v3, wouldn't scum win???

If this really isn't mylo, that means...
My claim was for nothing???
Wtf?!

[Performer]

All my disappointment aside, can someone explain to me all the math there the??? I seriously don't get it. All I see is
If we mislynch, then

10-2 town dead = 8, so 3v5
8-2 town dead = 6, so 3v3

[Performer]

after a re ISO of nos and through his reads in
1477 about geo being null , with wave aris chill me and invis, being his sr at one point or another - interesting . If I combine that with tom's push on nos and the sr I had on nos on d1, then that makes sense why he's actually scum instead of town. Ugh I feel like I'm doing as badly as others have been in this game - no offense intended.

self notes: need to reread bbt and gus.

[Performer]

did a reread ISO of Gustavo, still don't see him being scum.

I'm getting a little mad at ari and nm. They need to get in here and help us. I've seen and played with their town and scum games, and they have that minimalistic playstyle but c'mon.

[Performer]

Yes, tomorrow (not today) is mylo if we mislynch today.

Ok.

[Performer]

Hold on. We can't just win 3v3 if we mislynch 2 more times. Don't we need a majority to lynch anyway?..

[Performer]

VOTE: Nos

I like your posting Garmr. My primary reason for thinking TChill could be scum was his staunch defence of BV and I couldn't understand why. I guess your posting makes sense and is a possibility - but there are also a couple of other possibilities where TChill is town and TChill wants to lynch Nos Today so I guess he can live for now.

Nos really should be the lynch today.

Hmm. Based on a re ISO of bbt, maybe he isn't teamed with nos the?
For some reason I am still the only one voting geo, but this doesn't change my read on geo.

As stated in my posts of pgs 67-68 , based on bbt's post above, and others' interactions,
VOTE: nosferatu

[Performer]

With nos then*

[Performer]

Confirming that not mafia is my Mason partner - hence my posts regarding him. I completely did not expect geo to be town, just wow.

This changes things and I'm getting inclined to believe garm. But seeing as the entire scum team is a still alive, I want to see what aris says before hasty voting. I want to see his claim.

Also, nos why do you think it's aris who has to be the lynch? Iirc, you replied that you simply think garm is scum, when I asked you why he was scum the other phase.

[Performer]

Ok I think I've seen enough. tracker is nothing novel for mafia to fakeclaim, and having 2 masons, an odd night cop further balanced by an ascetic, with a jk, is enough town power to balance against a scum team with a tracker and 2 other roles. I think the scum team has strong abilities or they have every member carrying an ability.

After reviewing geo 's ISO, I think the team would be nos, teacher, bbt, in that order of confidence. Teacher's 1704 post on d4, is just ridiculous.

VOTE: nosferatu

[Performer]

Based on rereads, wave could've been right - he mentioned nos , ari , teacher. That also makes sense why he was killed over me and not_mafia , because he was likely right.

VOTE: teacher

[Performer]

@aris: I am also of mind that lynch would be better than no lynch in this case. Otherwise if we go no lynch route, that means lylo of 3v2 in d6 with 2 scum remaining. That gives them too much power on how votes turn out.

I think I see where you're coming from , that you are afraid not_mafia & I are scum, so you want a no lynch, then d6 you'll see who's left, which narrows down the risk of voting wrong, I get that.

If garm was scum with bbt, that means the team would be garm bbt nos, and judging how garm pushed strongly on nos as scum, it makes no sense for garm to be scum.

[Performer]

Bbt you are still alive......

I have been looking through bbt and aris ISOs . Will be busy today but need to reISO gustavo.

[Performer]

if we look at a bbt nos teacher team, why would they leave aris alive ? bbt wanted his death since d1 of the gustavo slot.
Thinking of this the other way around, an aris nos teacher team doesn't make more sense.

Also, the way gustavo thought lefty and I were scum, with bbt's super odd defense of me on d1, and the interactions from gustavo's ISO, point me to bbt being likelier than aris as the third.

VOTE: bbt

[Performer]

It's true you did push nos and teacher lynches...possibly to get town credit in bussing them...

[Performer]

Bbt in what world are you still alive over wave and garmr kills... On n1, others mentioned byron likely jailkept garm. two other nights, 2 prs died.

You pushed for nos lynch while I tried saving chill with my claim, while chill still got lynched. True...and we got him lynched the next day. But the ISOs I read, make it look like the nos and teacher lynches were bussing cases.

[Performer]

And didn't nos and teacher push for the gustavo slot's death multiple times? They barely or never mentioned wanting to lynch you though. So, that all makes it more suspect.

If you are really town, then I am deeply sorry.


But I believe this is the right choice.

[Performer]

Performer, I'm town. I town read you based on how I thought you would act as scum towards me.

In what world do I make sense as scum with teacher and nos?

How would you know how I would act as scum toward you, too?...
The way you painted it out in I think, days one and two, were so crazy yet true, about if I was scum I would lump you into a tr.
But we played like 1 or 2 games together at most, in the past.

[Performer]

UNVOTE: ok.
I have to reread pages .

[Performer]

On pg10 now.

This is also why I wanted chill to live so much, because other than my Mason partner, I didnt have any strong townreads. I even claimed to try to save chill on that day.

I hope this won't turn out like the newbie game where nm and were town and rockeater ended up being the last scum.

[Performer]

Nm and I*

[Performer]

On pg41. Really , really wish aris did more to sort others. Hmm.
Still leaning bbt currently.

[Performer]

Rereading of pages of interactions and pgs 39-45, for instance.

[Performer]

Aristo's vote on Nos is awful. Aristo, you still have not backed up your accusation you made against me. Answer my questions to you.

Ircher's vote isn't great either, I second what TChill said.

Bbt voted aris immediately on d2, spoke of nos and teacher being good votes, later began the completely new wagon on tommy , and later made this reply post to aris voting nos.

[Performer]

Chill ended up being lynched anyway, sadly. I think you pushed for nos to get town credit.

As for garm kill, possibly since you believed you could manipulate nm and I to vote aris. After all, I dread voting you, bbt. I wish you were town but I have a very hard time believing that. Continuing the rest of my rereading of pages.

[Performer]

In nos post 1475 he mentioned wave, chill, aris were his scumreads . In his 1477 , he put {bbt, NM, teacher, garmr} as his townreads. He also said "performer as town implies that BBT is also town," which makes me further think it's bbt. Furthermore his posts 1632, 1639, 1640, pinned aris as his scumread yet again.

In his 1724, he said he wanted to lynch aris 100%, even later going as far to fakeclaim tracker to get aris lynched - which aris didn't take kindly to in reaction.

[Performer]

Given how much nos and teach wanted aris dead in various stages of the game, like in roughly pgs 65-69 (nos even began d4 with an aris vote).

Also, garm's reply to bbt was spot on, and our cooperation in lynching teacher was put to full use.

All my rereading reconfirms my suspicion that bbt had to bus teammates nos and teacher , when his partners began being lynched.
VOTE: bbt

[Performer]

Yes, the no-killing of either nm or me, has been downright odd but we'll have to ask scum team why they did that.

Bbt I'm saying nos fakeclaims that he tracked aris, in order to get him lynched since nos knew he was town is what I'm saying.

Nos came in on d4 with the entire scum team alive, faked tracker on aris, and we all lynched nos instead.

One specific I noted is how you preferred aris over teach, and as garm noted to vote teach, we ended up voting teach in case you were scum. Teacher ended up being scum. At the same time, aris looks unusual because he wanted no lynch during the time we voted teacher. But I don't think it's aris...

[Performer]

In a game I hosted and a few others I've seen, scum claimed tracker on town. It's never been where they claimed against a partner. Scum team was all alive and nos made that claim. Teacher being a newer scum player , made a list that had scumreads on all town. Nos and teacher never hard pushed you, bbt.

Honestly I want to see aris and bbt cases on each other. Garm and wave said aris should be the final scum, but iirc they also wanted chill dead , which was the wrong choice.

I'm getting a little uneasy here.

[Performer]

UNVOTE:

[Performer]

VOTE: Aristophanes

[Performer]

Huh. Nos putting teach and if bbt was scum - both in his townreads, does seem unlikely. But putting teach in tr, and scumreading his partner aris...hmm . Also really getting a bad feel from all the busywork coasting posts.

I think I've said all I can say.

I think

[Performer]

Pedit: ignore the last two words from that post, typos

[Performer]

Agh, should've not listened to others and just stayed with my gut on bbt....thanks for moderating, PenguinPower! And it was an enjoyable game with the players.

[Performer]

Haven't read the scum pt yet...but why did bbt check my mason partner lefty/not mafia on n3, find no result because my partner was ascetic mason, and let him live? Interesting.

[Performer]

@bbt:
"Secondly, town lost the game when TChill was lynched - we even said in our thread we're gonna have to kill him because he is never getting lynched. That was pretty nice play for teacher to get him out of the game."

Man. I never claimed like that ever, to save someone. I knew it was an impending doom once chill was lynched. Sigh.

"Would also like to know why Masons changed their minds, felt like I was fighting a lost cause."
It started to get to a terrible point of where aris looked like nos coasting , when garm called nos out. I remember scumreading nos, then townreading him, then we finally lynched nos, he flipped scum. I was just way too paranoid I was going to make the same mistake of giving aris a townread for WAY too long, and wave+garm+nm+chill kept saying yout (bbt) were null at worst or even town. I think from this point forward, I will play a little more like radiantcowbells, and not listen to others so much.
-------
@aris don't worry man...just learn and improve, that's all you should do when you sub in or join a new game as a new player, going forward. Huge thanks to you and Ircher and anyone else who subbed in.

[Performer]

Ah, just finished reading dead pt & scum pt - an enjoyable reading experience, many great points made.

[Performer]

You guys should see the mason thread...at some times I felt like I was talking to myself in there, with nm somewhere in the mist lol....

Anyway I have a trip next month I've been preparing for so I won't be joining anymore games until Sept at earliest.

[Performer]

Thanks

[Performer]

Also...Mason thread is in the previous page by the way

[Performer]

Basically, I solved the game and cured cancer, but Performer threatened to kick me in the shin if I didn't vote Ari

[Performer]

Also...Mason thread is in the previous page by the way

Yeah but none masons can't read it with out permission.

Oh damn. @pp I forgot, but I'm fine with allowing it to be read. I think either way you release it 24 hrs later iirc

[Performer]

Yeah I kept doubting nos was scum until later.

@geo I thought you put chill at l2? Yet he was at l1? The chill lynch was easily the worst one this game

@garm hehe....

[Performer]

Huh....I must've missed who voted him after you.....I thought teacher voted him after you and that was the hammer. Which made me think you and teacher were guilty iirc...oh well....
Hope to see you and others in other games !
I'm thinking of adding micro queue to my belt September. Have been doing only offsite, newbie, mini, and large games. Micro has geriatric and grey flag setups I've been wanting to check out after my trip.