Newbie 1874 - Game over

[UnaBombaH]

Your friendly neighborhood IC here!

I'll make a longer, more colorful post later, but for now I'm happy to kickoff the RvS!

VOTE: Iconeum - because I remember your avatar is a dragon which is cool, but we have also played together once or twice before, and I think you voted me at least once, and that wasn't very nice.

[UnaBombaH]

VOTE: Iconeum

even though I don't know whether I should trust the IC or not

Why would them being IC make you regard them any differently than any other player?

You'd be surprised how many players think it's a reason to lynch/NK!
One recent example of a newbie game had scum keeping the IC alive for endgame mainly because they knew newbies would be needlessly paranoid of them.

It's good to note however, that the only separation of "IC" and "SE" in this game, is that I have voluntarily taken upon me the task to "mentor" and help all of you to the best of my abilities.
I also swear to answer to any questions involving game-mechanics

TRUTHFULLY

, and to the best of my knowledge - something that isn't mandatory for the SEs.
I'll be using this colored text to try and separate the "IC-talk" from gameplay.

Note that the mod uses a green color this text -

DON'T CONFUSE US WITH EACH OTHER!

[UnaBombaH]

This seems slow until someone makes the effort Ircher just did.
I'd say early townleans on Ircher and Lefty.

[UnaBombaH]

Time to shake things up!
VOTE: Draynth

@Draynth - who is scum, and why is it you?

[UnaBombaH]

Iconeum hasn't posted at all yet?
I'm going to do a thing today, maybe tomorrow if I get busy at work..

[UnaBombaH]

Has everyone else (not Iconeum obv.) voted someone so far?

If not, get in here. Vote someone. Anyone.
Doesn't matter if it forms a wagon - there's nothing wrong with that.
On the contrary - this game gets running only when we force someone to push for, or defend someone else.

Just try to avoid putting anyone to L-1,

(one vote away from being lynched)

or at least if you do, you are supposed to ANNOUNCE THAT YOUR VOTE HAS JUST PLACED SOMEONE AT L-1.

Other than that, we WANT a wagon to form somewhere.

[UnaBombaH]

@Una do you have a problem with a FC wagon?

This is the second time you’re prompting to start another.

I have a problem with no notable wagons happening.
I used to always prompt wagons on myself back in the day just to get the conversation rolling.
But it obviously demanded a lot from me to not be mislynced D1 every time, so I stopped doing it. (although it often helped the whole town in scumhunting)

I do not think I have advocated NOT wagoning FC?

[UnaBombaH]

Feels somewhat like scum.
VOTE: Bomb

..or an IC who wants people to get in on the game?

[UnaBombaH]

Yes, I'm sorry, this is my first game ever, and I'm still learning that this isn't town of salem and you don't just follow suit on a lynch vote.
Not comfortable with the fact that iconeum hasn't voted...
VOTE: Iconeum

This is an example of a "poor" vote IMO.
The reason why I unvoted Iconeum myself, was exactly because they hadn't posted AT ALL yet.
It's not scummy to NOT BE IN THE GAME AT ALL.

[UnaBombaH]

Are there any benefits to a nolynch on D1?

Not for town.

I BELIEVE

it's considered a fact that no-lynching D1 in a newbie game always benefits scum.
I bolded the "I believe", because I can't point you to a source right now, but I think our SE's can also confirm this to you all.

There are multiple reasons for why it is so, and I think one of them has to do with being on "evens" regarding the amount of players alive vs being on "unevens". ("evens" benefitting scum)
One simple reason is that we let the scum dictate who flips first vs we push for the lynch as a group.
Wagoning and lynching always reveals info for town, because we get a flip and can then analyze how and why the wagon formed.

[UnaBombaH]

You haven’t commented on it either way but you voted Draynth as a kickstarter and then ask for people just to vote someone, anyone. So you haven’t stood against it directly but you’ve twice promoted activity in a different direction. I felt it was worth pointing out.

And I think you pointing it out is either towny (trying to generate discussion) or scummy (you might have an agenda there yourself).

I do want everyone to vote someone, or the other way around, ANYONE.
That is the foundation on which we can build this game - we need to force people to vote, have interactions, push or defend others.
What you are doing towards me is a good start, but we need others to chime in on these actions as well.

[UnaBombaH]

@FChariot

- why did you unvote Lefty?

@Ircher

- what made you think the post you quoted is scummy?

@Lefty

- your vote towards me included a "choo choo", implying you did it for the sake of wagoning.
Was that your biggest motivation?
Do you think there's any merit in pointing out that first you and Ircher were both on FC, and now on me?

[UnaBombaH]

Was this seriously saying I'm scum or partly RVS?
If not serious who is actually scum?
If serious why am I scum?

I thought you as a more experienced player on this site would handle the pressure better than a newbie might.
No idea who is scum yet, but I think my latest post includes the three slots that should be pressured for now.
Not serious in the sense that I would have reasoning yet..obviously.

[UnaBombaH]

UNVOTE: Lefty
(was RVS)

...and apparently you should be included in the "slots to be pressured" now..
I expect you to keep your vote somewhere at all times in this state of the game..
Only reason to simply unvote here, is if someone was at a speedy L-1, and you want to avoid accidental hammers.

[UnaBombaH]

I disagree with having your vote somewhere at all times, it loses it's meaning and emphasis for when it's actually a valuable tool

Like I said, at this specific moment, I believe we need to have our votes fielded all the time.
But I guess we can agree to disagree on that then.

[UnaBombaH]

Gonna slot Ircher as a TR

Doesn't ease my feelings towards you at all.
High potential for scum!Lefty now.

VOTE: Lefty

[UnaBombaH]

What do you make of us both voting together on two different wagons?

Just wanted to point it out.
Sometimes it helps others later when we try to check for voting patterns and wagons.
Sometimes it stops a trend before it gets out of hand.
I have a few ideas myself.

It's obviously too early to tell what your intentions actually are/were, but I can outline a few simple scenarios.

1. You are scum, trying to please Ircher. Pocketing/sheeping are some of the terms we use on this site, and your actions so far fit both bills to an extent.

2. You are scum/town, and your actions are NAI, (not alignment-indicative), but they are a tell that you are new, and afraid to make your own decisions.

3. You are both scum with Ircher, and aim to play with minimal distance. Meaning that you vote the same slots, and react on things at similar paces.
People on this site often assume that scum always play so that they aren't "obvious partners", and thus forget that sometimes being openly on the same page means that the scumteam is coordinating their moves on purpose.

Remember that the scumteam has a private topic where they can discuss during day and night without the rest of us knowing.

[UnaBombaH]

right i see. thats NAI this early in day 1. @UnaBombaH why did you bring that up?

How can you be so confident in saying that it's NAI?
Don't you think it depends on the player voting/being voted too?

[UnaBombaH]

Why do your actions suggest that you are against the FChariot wagon?

I don't think my actions should ever suggest such a thing!

I think you are reading too much into my actions, or at least interpreting them falsely.
I obviously appreciate people trying to generate/force content as it helps us all in the long run, but you and Lefty seem to have been on the same wavelength from the get go.
And since I know your interpretation is flawed, it obviously comes across poorly..

[UnaBombaH]

JUST A REMINDER:

10. ... Also, please ensure that any colours you use show up clearly in both the MafSilver and MafBlack themes.

The colour used in post 29 cannot be easily read with the MafSilver theme.

This also applies to post 119.

Sorry, this was obviously not intentional! I must have missed your previous post regarding this..
I hope this color is a better fit.
Although it seems like this lot doesn't require much handholding - our SEs seem to be actively answering questions too!

[UnaBombaH]

I think you are misusing the term "pressure" (though I will admit it is not formally well-defined) as to me, pressuring someone generally means you think someone has a higher probability than most people to be scum, but you do not have enough evidence at the moment to back up said opinion, so you pressure them to get more information and evidence and to see if your conjecture (as I will call it) is correct.

I think that we are doing something wrong if we are nitpicking on the meaning of a word in a newbie game page 6. But maybe that's just me.

What I meant with "pressure", is that I wanted the general direction of votes and discussion moving towards that direction.
A wagon forming on any of you guys wouldn't be a bad thing either, as it would finally give us a singular leading wagon to harp on.

It seems to me that you are actually trying to say that you agree with that notion(?), but for whatever reason you seem to scumread me for saying it?

Want to clarify what actually pings you as scummy, and what is just something you are not sure about?

It is by no means inherently scummy to unvote, and I don't see why it is an issue for town to unvote when they feel their original read was wrong

but are not sure of a better place for their vote

.

They don't need to be "sure" as of now.
I think simply unvoting at this stage is the same as holstering your weapon in a mexican standoff.
You give all the power to others, and that means that scum have more of a sway on where the wagons begin to form. (assuming anyone is town - a simple unvote then pings me as scummy)

Now, obviously,

I expect for Draynth to vote someone else soonish

, but I don't see anything wrong or scummy about Draynth unvoting for the time being.

...and yet again, it seems we actually agree on the matter after all.
So why call it scummy when I point it out, when in fact you claim to have a similar view on the matter anyway?

[UnaBombaH]

1) Considering my initial reaction to Ircher for voting me and doubling down, how do you see my action as pocketing?

The way I see your ISO, everything since has been you following his vote, and promoting a townread on him.
It would make sense for scum!you to first "resist" Ircher if they placed a vote on you.
But it doesn't mean you couldn't go ahead appeasing him after that, does it?

There have been so many variations on how people do their distancing/pocketing in a game, that it's always a bad idea to say "Situation A means X wouldn't perform action B towards Y".
Mafia isn't as simple as that.

2) Pocketing isn’t something I’d consider a newbie scum action, so this iteration feels more like fluff.

So this is apparently you saying that you as a newbie(!scum) wouldn't be able to perform pocketing?
Yet this specific post from you includes multiple terms and read widely used in the game.
Simultaneously you claim to have a scumread on me based on a nuanced read, and an interpretation of my actions INDIRECTLY involving FChariot.

What is your actual Mafia-experience? And are you really implying that you wouldn't be able to pocket a player as scum in this game?

3) This is more narrative than actual analysis. Proposing that Ircher and I are scum and working together in the open ignores the more obvious conclusion that we are two Townies who recognize each other and are working together in an otherwise slow game.

Working together doesn't equal outright trust within the first 10 pages of the game.
Nor does it equal an identical scumread based on false assumptions.

He both ignored it and promoted voting elsewhere

, which would suggest that he is defending FC in a subtle way.

If one flips scum the other should be lynched next.

This is a magnificent attempt at forcing a narrative.
I DID NOT PROMOTE VOTING ELSEWHERE.
Not once. My sole intent was to just make sure everyone votes somewhere. (with the added possibility of generating discussion, at least we got that going now.)
If every single one had voted on FChariot, I would've been very much satisfied with the wagon, as it would've likely brought us well out of RvS with all the content generated.

My initial scumlean on you gets ever stronger every time you misinterpret my posts, as it seems you are doing it on purpose.

And to be clear - if other players agree with your interpretation that I was "defending" or "avoiding" FChariot, well then obviously my posts were too vague and the read is warranted.

But until then I refuse to accept that as a basis for your read - or to be more accurate - I refuse to believe your read is genuine.

[UnaBombaH]

The tone of this post doesn’t sound at all like you’re considering a Lefty/Ircher scum team.

...you need to finetune your radar then..

My main gripe with Ircher is that they are rather experienced on the site (way more than I am), and yet they seem to share a false perspective on my posts with you.
Unless others come forward and agree with you two, I have no explanation other than the two of you sharing means to discuss and coordinate your push.

[UnaBombaH]

i think town players are more likely to be hasty than scum players. the mafia want to stay under everyones radar

This is a fallacy.
Especially in newbie-games I've seen more "strong" scumplayers who try to take control of the town, than the quiet underlying type.

[UnaBombaH]

Welcome MyloN - I believe we have met a few times before?
I think this game has already been moving to a more productive direction for a while now which is great!

[UnaBombaH]

I'm going to have to check up on scum and town Una, because I'm seeing a few things that remind of both.

..and I'm actually interested to hear about this, because I don't think my scumgame is easily distinguishable from my towngame.. (#arrogant)
I'd also like to point out, that I've been caught as scum in a newbie game (the only time I was scum in one!) only because of a Cop-check.. (#salty)

[UnaBombaH]

VOTE: UnaBombah

That is L-1. Nobody else should vote Una without first declaring intent to hammer.

Also would like to point out that the normal "procedure" here is to ask for a claim for the one put on L-1 if people deem it necessary. (we often do)
In a situation like this though, where the wagon was formed so fast and early in the game, there might be reason for the L-1'd player NOT to claim.
I will, however, claim if someone claims intent to hammer AFTER Mylo and Kernel have caught up.

I expect everyone to respect the above and offer me a chance to speak my mind before(/if) a hammer is cast.

I also want everyone to think now what this potential lynch-to-happen gives you guys for the coming days.
I'm going to flip town - do you feel confident you know where the scum are in relation to this wagon?
1 or 2 on/off the wagon?
Did scum push this wagon to movement, or did they hop on after?

And while I independently scumread Lefty for previous pages content -

I hope people will not hold it as gospel that necessarily either one of us is scum in the end.

I've seen too many newbie games lost because people always assume after a townflip, that their most outspoken "adversary" is automatically scum!
Townies disagree with each other a lot too. (but really, do pay attention to Lefty if I'm forced to flip )

I really want to give my up to date reads and reactions to my wagon after work, so please hold off voting me at least until then.

[UnaBombaH]

Too many posts?

Why would town stan not defend fc in this situation, Una? Aren't you the one to ask for game theory questions?

What is this in reference to?

[UnaBombaH]

Una it’s approaching 24 hours since you got put to L-1 and you’ve posted since.

You need to claim and make those reads like you said you would so we can make a decision.

Your attitude towards me reveals a hidden agenda.
If you were to really play with a gamesolving attitude, you would read what I actually say.

Also would like to point out that the normal "procedure" here is to ask for a claim for the one put on L-1 if people deem it necessary. (we often do)
In a situation like this though, where the wagon was formed so fast and early in the game,

there might be reason for the L-1'd player NOT to claim.

I will, however, claim if someone claims intent to hammer

AFTER Mylo and Kernel have caught up.

We are in absolutely no rush.
I will certainly make my reads clear before EoD, but I'm just always very protective of my claim.

[UnaBombaH]

...and to make it even more clear so that Lefty can't come in here and twist my words however - I'll obviously need the catchups from Mylo and Kernel to be able to form solid reads on their slots!
So before you say that I'm stalling, realize that I need content from the slots that are currently behind to be able to contribute with thought-out reads.

[UnaBombaH]

If everybody starts prematurely claiming that's a horrendous situation for town to be in and only benefits scum.

This.

I actually don’t think he’s stalling, and he should definitely wait for intent before claiming.

..and this.

You see Lefty, we can't all be scum here, so PLEASE read what your fellow players are saying. (if you really want to be negative, there's still at least one townie amongst the three of us, and thats a fact! )

[UnaBombaH]

you should know better, and if you are Town you’re essentially holding the rest hostage from making a better decision if your claim makes people reconsider.

Not true - especially since I assume I'm not the only one who waits for Kernel and Mylo to catch up?

PEDIT:

He said he might not claim even if intent is called, so already I don’t think he plans to. That’s more what I’m addressing.

You're being antitown here, whether you realize it now or not.
READ. WHAT. I. POST. Please.

[UnaBombaH]

I do not want to affect Kernel or Mylo. Obviously.
While I haven't taken a solid stance on almost anyone yet either, I'd still rather wait for them to do at least some form of a catchup post.
I seem to be SO obvious scum from your PoV that it outright screams some form of OMGUS - hence everything I do only seems to strengthen your tunnel.
This reminds me of a previous newbie-game I played in.
See there the slot Derpy Hooves, and their "work" on me.
I was forced to claim (VT there) and got lynched D1 - flipped town.
He got copped and lynched D3 even though I kept pointing out how unreasonable their progression on me was - he flipped scum.

I might obviously be biased because I'm at the other end of this tunnel, but honestly go read both of our ISOs for D1.
Tell me if you find similarities.

[UnaBombaH]

Guys, don't push me to L-1 just to make it easy for yourselves.
That is the worst motivation of them all..

KernelRunaway has been prodded.

Since this makes it rather apparent that the Kernel slot is either busied by real life to the point of "can't devote the time necessary for a catchup" or they have simply decided to flake this game, I'll stop holding on to their content arriving before EoD.
I'll list my reads and thoughts in the following posts, and then I trust you will all make an educated decision, rather than vote just to get things "over with".

[UnaBombaH]

I think I'll do the full ISO-works on most all slots.
I'll do them in the order of post-count, and begin to write them as soon as my work allows..
It's 13:38 in Finland now, so expect me to dish out posts withing the ~12h I'll still be awake!

[UnaBombaH]

UnaBombaH how often do u get lynched on day 1?

Back when I started, a lot.
Ever since I started getting better at the game, not often. Been winning more, getting lynched extremely little actually.

*quick check from my wiki* -> 3

latest

Newbie-games I've played I was NK'd or survived to endgame. The fourth was the one where scum forcefully pushed me to a D1 lynch (he was scum). It seems that whenever I am the IC I get lynched D1.. :THINKING:

It's been a total of NINE GAMES in Normals (according to my wiki) since I've been lynched at all - all the rest have been NK'd or made it to the endgame.

(I guess I could hazard a "if I were to be scum, I wouldn't get caught like this, but whatever.. )

[UnaBombaH]

I mean, I really just want to be as helpful as possible to the newer players, and secure an environment where they get to learn the game and the ways we play on this site.
If it means lynching me D1 and then people rallying to catch the scum, I'm fine with that and will just spam the spectator-thread with my thoughts (I always do that).
Those who wish to see how I think and play can read it afterwards then.

[UnaBombaH]

These have all been phoneposts btw ^^
So if those wiki-numbers are inaccurate, soz.
Should be close to exact though.
I'll get to actually playing this game when I have time to sit on a computer and work on ISOs.

[UnaBombaH]

OK, gonna start my analysis on all you guys.
I will not probably find enough time and energy today (after a ~12h workday) to make a long version on, some slots I'll just likely condense into some words and a read.
But starting with Lefty who apparently has the most posts so far, and the slot my vote is currently on.

First thing that pings me on reread is very early in the game actually!
It all starts with FChariot voting on Lefty:

UNVOTE: Iconeum HIYA! I CHANGE MY VOTE!
VOTE: Lefty

..followed by..

[/unvote]

VOTE: FChariot

Scummy bandwagon is scummy.

..followed by..

*gets voted by two other people*
*votes most recent voter*

First vote was rando. Second vote ~pressure I’m assuming

Your vote with throw away comment? No beuno.

This implies that Lefty thought FChariots vote on them was scummy, or at least scummier than Irchers vote on them.

Why was the second vote for pressure, but the third one not?

Now why did this ping me only the second time around?
Because I now have context from how Lefty handles wagoning himself..

UNVOTE: FChariot

VOTE: UnaBombaH

Choo choo

This was the second vote on me - the first one to vote being Ircher (whom I think misunderstood my "more IC"-style post of 105 to be "LAMIST".)

Am I correct on that Ircher?

Then the aspect of scum!Lefty trying to appease and "befriend" Ircher.

So outta me, Draynth, Ircher and FChariot my money would be on the last two.

FChariot for that crap bandwagon vote and

Ircher for how he’s reacting to me

. I blatantly challenge his vote and all he does is double down and call me scum for literally zero reason.

Town should realize that they are sometimes scumread even though they are "obvious town" to themselves.
Like, I don't scumread Lefty BECAUSE he "scumreads" (or really scumreads) me.
I currently have the idea that he "scumreads" me because it's a convenient tunnel to have.
Also to point out - the quote above is part of a poor use of statistics, and only used to deflect from the wagon on themselves. (I think Kernel correctly called the BS on it)

Do you think there's any merit in pointing out that first you and Ircher were both on FC, and now on me?

+

Sure, there’s merit to pointing out anything you think is worth while. What do you make of us both voting together on two different wagons?

Blatantly dodging a question/stalling an answer.
While my original thought was scum!Lefty-town!Ircher, the way Lefty countered my question made me think he might've rushed to their PT to ask Irchers more experienced opinion on how to answer..

Gonna slot Ircher as a TR

..soon followed by this..
At this point I voiced my concern, and voted Lefty.
His reaction soon after?

Yeah my vote on UnaBombaH is officially serious.

I think I already broke down his 150, so I'm not gonna do it again.
But this started my tunnel on him.
We haven't met in the middle of tunnel yet, but it has to be the same since I'm apparently on the other end of it, while he is in the other!

[UnaBombaH]

I got put to L-2 on page 1. Draynth’s post was RVS and humorous so I don’t really mind it. Your’s seemed like a pressure vote which in a generic sense I don’t mind either. FC’s put me at L-2 while simultaneously making a throwaway comment that had nothing to do with my wagon, the people on it, or the fact it put me at L-2. So for now, that’s where I wanna investigate.

This was a good breakdown on his thoughts from Lefty though.
From this PoV his actions don't seem as bad.

Pretty much just waiting for FChariot to post or get replaced.

+

What others? You’ve got nothing to comment on?

+

@Una do you have a problem with a FC wagon?

This is the second time you’re prompting to start another.

Although these were actually a misinterpretation of what I wanted to happen, I can now see Leftys PoV a bit better.
I didn't have any agenda towards the FC-wagon anyway, I only wanted to maintain some form of presence, and to make sure everyone had voted.
If it had stirred discussion, good.
If it had made anyone move their votes,

EVEN BETTER

, as it would've given us a reaction to analyze. (scummy vote-jump/newbie panicking/etc.)
Shamefully the discussion took a turn for a tunnel with no exits (apparently )
I admit to have been a bit lazy with my posting, but I only get better the more we have in the form of interactions.

Hasty is probably a fair description of my play thus far.

Then why can't you see you have been VERY hasty towards my slot?

UNVOTE: UnaBombaH

Somebody put them at L-1. Consider this intent to hammer if it happens.

You’re stalling.

Like, see here - THESE TWO POSTS DON'T SEEM TO MIX!!
You claim to recognize a harmful characteristic in your play, but then keep playing along the lines of it!
And the fact that you say I'm stalling when I specifically said I am not stalling and will produce the content necessary..oh boy..

Simply put, even if you are Town here we both know your reads aren’t going to be 100% (I know for a fact you’re already wrong about me) or treated as gospel, so saying you want to wait for others reads to me like you’re stalling and hoping something better comes along - doubling so when you make that hedging remark about not claiming even if someone does claim intent.

This was another forced misinterpretation and finally actual SHADE thrown my way by Lefty.
There's a flawed PoV-argument there in "I know for a fact you’re already wrong about me". (unvalid to everyone else)
I also noticed hint of malice in "treated as gospel".

I still think Una is just stalling and buying time versus kicking into gear and doing something other than OMGUS scum reading me.

Oh, but you see - I voted you before you ever said your vote was serious..
Can't be much of an OMGUS if your basis for the vote was "choo choo" at that point?
While I gave at least some basic reasoning for my vote straight enough.
On the other hand, YOUR VOTE ON ME became "serious" just after I voted you..OMGUS then?

[UnaBombaH]

I'm gonna sleep now, but don't worry anti-stallers!
I have a day off tomorrow, so I'll be back on ISO-diving within ~12 hours.
(Leftys ISO took me way longer than I thought. Guess it means sort of "kudos to him".)

After ISO'ing, I can say that I'm still fine with my vote on him, but I'll have to admit that my read is a bit more nuanced as well.
I think Lefty COULD BE town almost as well as scum, but their tunnel on me is either beyond newbie-levels of stubborn, or just scummy.
And since their vocabulary and read-definitions give away they aren't a COMPLETELY newbie..ech.
I know from experience that ICs tend to get wagoned and paranoia-lynched A LOT here, but IMO this hasn't had any sensation of that.

Hold off the hammer for me guys - the OP will deliver..

[UnaBombaH]

Guys, you can't all be scum..
You've all been dancing around the subject, yet none of you is willing to accept the obvious fact.

I SHOULD NEVER BE THE LYNCH HERE, AS I WILL DEFINITELY BE NK'd sooner or later. I will not make it to LyLo, and I'm fine with that.

Oh hey, we agree some more. Una is gonna flip lol

Sooner or later yes.
SHOULDN'T BE TODAY THOUGH.

@UnaBombaH: While I don't want to over-rush you, you really only have until the end of tomorrow to finish your ISOs.

Oh, really no problem there.
I'll be finished before lunch today.

Oh hey, we agree some more. Una is gonna flip lol

(Pro Tip: It's okay to reevaluate at times. In fact, now might be a good time to do so just to make sure you aren't tunneling.)

One more reason to townread Ircher.

I am fine lynching them and being wrong, tbh, because a lot of their points against me read like he’s making it up as he goes and is giving more speculation than casing me on actual things I’ve done.

Did you even read what I wrote about your ISO last page? No speculation there, I had very clear connections between certain posts that pinged me as scum.
So even if you know from town!Lefty PoV that I'm wrong, it doesn't mean I haven't given valid reasons to scumread you.

In fact - I do not deny that my play this game has been something that can be interpreted at scummy/dodgy/lazy, whatever.

I just deny some certain aspects that Lefty has used as the basis of their scumcase on me.

I don't really have statistics for this, but I'm thinking I've found a few things I can pin down to town!Una.

If you really read more than one of my games, you might actually have a solid read on WHY this is my towngame.
I've left hints, believe me, it's there..

Was meant to post a reply and not just quote.. Im happy with lynching Una, unless he claims a PR then we shouldnt. the reason i asked if he gets lynched a lot day 1 is because his attitude this entire game has suggested that he knows something we dont.

OK, assume I am town and do know something you do not..!

Right, so you agree with me, what i am saying is, IF una was town he would also agree with me and wouldnt be waiting for intent he would just claim now as this benefits town the most, and since he has not done so we can conclude he is mafia and still lynch him when he eventually claims a PR

No, this is flawed.
Believe me (or at least Ircher)..

it is fair for UnaBombaH to wait for someone to give intent before claiming as town!Una doesn't want to have to claim if they don't have to. (It gives mafia more info.)

This.

If anything, scum!Una has way more incentive to claim than town!Una does because it is obvious that if Una stalls to deadline, Una will be lynched, no questions asked.

AND THIS.

I would never play like this as the designated IC "for fun".
This hasn't been "fun" for me. (at least so far)

CAN WE JUST NOT FORCE ME TO CLAIM NOW, AND LEAVE THE WIFOM TO SCUM?

[UnaBombaH]

Ircher is next in line for ISOs based on post count, but I'm not gonna nitpick them at this point.
They are so obv.town now that if they make it to LyLo, THEN it's time to reread them and reconsider.
Otherwise just read what they say, and try to learn from there.
And no, they weren't obv.town from the get go, but they literally spewed town the last few pages. Like literally such obvious town!PoV that it's either top-notch fake or just town.

[UnaBombaH]

vote:draynth because why not

Simple enough RvS.

This day one seems to be very slow.

..and simply saying it doesn't help us much.

@draynth My vote was RVS, I was not saying you were scum. What do i think of the lefty/ircher interaction? Ircher's boldness feels town, as do lefty's posts.

+

unvote

because draynth is seeming more town. Would vote fc but I don't like the idea of lynching when not all people have had a chance to speak.

..seem very bad on hindsight actually.
OIaM seems very defensive on the first one, and then decides to unvote "under the pressure". Somehow I missed this with all the "1v1" with Lefty..
^^This might be the most usual tell for a newbie!scum I usually see too, so I really should've noticed it.
Also to note - see how OIaM LITERALLY avoids the FC-wagon? (@Lefty - that is what it actually looks like )

I played one game as vt and got replaced in another, used to play tos but that's it.

..so we really have to keep the newbie-aspect in our minds when reading him.
I actually think OIaM has been in a game with me already, I'll check that at the end of this ISO-dive.

vote:fchariot

+

I voted fchariot because of their bw on lefty, and then their previous posts. I'm not unvoting just because they seem new. Fchariot, do you play tos ranked? Why do you think wagonning in tos helps town?

This could really implicate scum!FC+scum!OIaM.
Joining the wagon once it seems it's not going anywhere = preparing for a bus?

Would some consider what I am doing active lurking? Sometimes I feel i don't post enough, but it's pretty hard to comment on things. I was never a good scumhunter.

Why would you ever ask this?
It just feels odd that you'd be aware of your posting being too low, but then you'd still...not post. Other than a post saying that you don't post..!
And yes, that style is often described as "active lurking".

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=76009, Newbie 1865. We were both VT.

Oh, it was this one.
Not a very telling game from you, other than the fact that scum left you alive until LyLo with the hope that you would mislynch our IC for paranoia.. (we usually die early in the game for a reason or another - that's just a thing that happens )

vote:lefty

Scum > lefty > una

Why couldn't you have just asked Una about the Fc eagkn? Think you're too hasty for town. Why single out Una, who was only trying to add more discussion? Why not other people?

I do not think scum!Una would have a good motivation for avoiding the fc wagon.

Buddying would be too obvious, if both scum. Maybe pocketing?

But then you could say the same of lefty, couldn't you?

Why did I say lefty seems town? They don't.

And then out of a clear sky - BOOOM.
OIaM is AWAKE!
I really like the bolded parts.
I also think it would've been easy for him to join my wagon as scum, so this actually gives a lot of towncred. in my mind.
There's also the mentioning of pocketing, and that is a spot-on read!
IF I were to be scum here, I would always bus over "shaky protect".
I wouldn't be making a favor for either of us if I were to forcefully avoid voting a scumbuddy - I'd be nailing a target on both of us instead!
Then the ending line - it demonstrates willingness to OPENLY RECONSIDER A READ - something a newbie!scum rarely is brave enough to do.

All in all - either OIaM got REALLY coached in the scum!PT or they are towning it up!

My sr's are as follow:

Lefty
Fchariot
Ircher
Stan1ey
Draynth
UnaBombaH
Kernel

Iconeum/replacement

Interesting list. Apparently scum is in the top?
If so, I'd say I'm too low here based on their earlier post. Maybe their read on Lefty chancing affected it? Dunno.
Ircher is simply too high.
Otherwise hard to tell.
I'm afraid this might have been a faked list.
Just as I was getting excited for town!OIaM!

Maybe it's wifom, stan1ey? Some scum may wantto seem more town by acting like what people think town players do. I also think the fact una ignored fc's wagon is not that big of a deal. Didn't fc vote lrfty and put them into l2 thinking they were scum? Isn't that what stan1ey is doing, why is there not a wagon on them?

..yet this promotes good thinking again.
You need to decide which side of the fence you belong man!

If not, why did you encourage me to place my vote on FC? Why say this now instead of when fc was being waggonned?

Good interacting with stan1ey. More towny vibes.

This conversation isn't pointless for me. It lets me see how you respond against attacks(even "pointless" ones) and how you try to defend yourself.

GOOOOOOD.

Why would town stan not defend fc in this situation, Una? Aren't you the one to ask for game theory questions?

I still don't understand what this was about..
I'm willing to answer anything, but I'm not sure what I'm asked here..!

[UnaBombaH]

You said that I was attempting to buddy/pocket Ircher by following/agreeing with them. I want you to show me the posts that gave you that impression, because I think it clearly contradicts the truth that has happened in the game.

I pointed these out in that post though..?

[UnaBombaH]

I also don’t understand why you keep mentioning you being the IC as is there’s any sort of basis to you being SR for that reason.

You’re as likely as anyone to be scum, and no one has once said that because you’re the IC that you are suspicious.

I'm starting to really have a problem with this.
I haven't said I think I'm being scumread because I'm the IC.
IN FACT, if you claim to have read my ISO-dive on you, I EXPLICITLY SAID that I DON'T SEE the usual "IC=scum because paranoia" vibe in you.

And no matter how right you are in saying that there's no merit to thinking like that, you as a newbie have no footing to say it doesn't happen A LOT on this site.
A LOT.
Like the game me and OIaM shared had scum whose endgame revolved mainly around the idea that our IC that game would've been scum because they survived to the end..

[UnaBombaH]

VOTE: OnlyIAmMe
Hello everyone. since i expect people to ask this is my second game of mafia the first one was on this site so you can go and read it if you wish. With that said i am pretty excited to play my first game as a mafia goon

Even if it was RvS and a joke, I'd like to say that many people consider it scummy to joke about being scum.
Even in RvS.

havent had much to say, i hate the rvs, but i have been reading. Lefty and KernelRunaway are town, i havent got a read on anyone else just yet

This is a poor way to start towntelling/cooperating.
You should explain more "WHY" than "WHAT" anyway, so this post actually gives us very little in terms of content.

Both are being very proactive and nothing theyve said strikes me as something mafia might say

This should've been included in that previous post!

What do you make of us both voting together on two different wagons?

what is this referring to?

+

right i see. thats NAI this early in day 1. @UnaBombaH why did you bring that up?

..feels out of place.
Lefty had already posed that question to me - you repeating it feels like posing as town.

This isn't a reason to bring it up. if one of them is mafia then you just made it easier for them. you can check voting patterns later without mentioning it now. and if it was the other reason, why would you want to put a stop to something that you consider to be a scumtell? surely that makes it easier for mafia to hide, if you let it carry on then you could make a credible case for him to be mafia at a later time?

I usually like to keep some of my thoughts hidden until "the time is right".
But you have to understand that newbie-games are all about learning/teaching/sharing thoughts.
So promoting an open playstyle and reads is actually a good thing here.
Try out the Normal-queue for example, and try to keep your reads concealed there - I'll bet you get lynched for "being scummy" faster than you thought possible!
BEING OBVIOUS TOWN YOURSELF IS SOMETIMES MORE IMPORTANT THAN BEING THE ONE TO NAIL THE ENTIRE SCUMTEAM.

since Una and Lefty are having a back and forth and my vote is currently on Lefty...
UNVOTE: Lefty
VOTE: UnaBombaH

The reasoning for the vote is very poor..
Like, why would you feel the need to switch the "side" here?

You don't say that you scumread me

, you say that "since they are on the opposite sides of an argument, and I'm already voting the other, time to vote the other now".

Does this mean you townread Lefty or scumread Una? Your vote sounds more like going with the majority. (Or at least two of the “loudest” posters.

I scumread Una, thought that was pretty obvious... and voting for one of the two loudest was kind of the point

Good observation from Ircher here.
And no, it wasn't apparent that you scumread me to me either.

i think town players are more likely to be hasty than scum players. the mafia want to stay under everyones radar

I think I already pointed it out, but this is a fallacy.
Good scumplayers can be anything - people aren't as simple as this thought implies.

Then their "1v1" with OIaM begins..I gotta say, I liked OIaMs posts more in that interaction.
Not gonna quote everything as to not make all of these walls humangous, but basically OIaM managed to match stan1eys points, and actually town-tell in the process.
Stan1ey felt more reactive and frustrated in comparison.

Lets assume Una is not stalling. we still only have 5 days left and if this goes on much longer we wont have time to form a wagon on someone else if Una claims a power role.

why does it matter so much that the inactives post?

This is an unfortunate tell - you don't need the content from others.
All you seem to be interested in is a claim from me, and that is not a townie PoV..
It comes across as "hunting for a PR/scum-slot" vs "hunting for scum ANYWHERE".
I'd rather see us not outing any PRs day 1, but I think the damage has been done already.

It doesnt give mafia more info. at this point the claim is inevitable.

No, it is not.
There hasn't been a single point where you've had enough votes for a lynch.
I have only been on L-1 with NO INTENT CLAIMED TO HAMMER.
Lefty then unvoted to make it L-2, but says he has intent.
YOU. STILL. NEED. ONE. MORE. VOTE. THAT. WAS. NEVER. THERE.
I find it very hard to believe town would push your narrative here, and making it seem like I was ever actually decided to be the one and only possibility for today.
I refuse to claim unless I absolutely have to, and that should be enough for town considering everything else I've said.

[UnaBombaH]

Una, who should the lynch be today instead of you given the above?

After the lates ISO dive?
VOTE: stan1ey

[UnaBombaH]

Just as an FYI, Inactivity is not Alignment-Indicative for me.

I know that probably seems 'convenient' but it genuinely isn't just me making excuses. Feel free to skim my ISO in other games where I say the same thing as both town and scum. I regularly get scumread for it but unfortunately it's something that is mostly out of my control.

I agree wholeheartedly with you on this btw (even though it's also NAI to agree/disagree with this )
I also think you had some heavy IRL-things to keep you occupied, so all that considered I wouldn't blame you for being in the low-posters for now.

Why do you assume that Ircher's vote was pressure but that FCChariot's wasnt?

Nice to see you had the same thought about Leftys vote as I did.

havent had much to say, i hate the rvs, but i have been reading. Lefty and KernelRunaway are town, i havent got a read on anyone else just yet

Why do you think Lefty and KernelRunaway are town?

..and here as well.

On a somewhat related note does anyone consider this serious

VOTE: OnlyIAmMe
Hello everyone. since i expect people to ask this is my second game of mafia the first one was on this site so you can go and read it if you wish.

With that said i am pretty excited to play my first game as a mafia goon

I really have 0 experience with people legit gambiting like this so I'd presume it's a joke but... I'm paranoid

...and again..

Time to shake things up!
VOTE: Draynth

@Draynth - who is scum, and why is it you?

Was this seriously saying I'm scum or partly RVS?
If not serious who is actually scum?
If serious why am I scum?

This is a good post in the sense that it goes back to an earlier post from me to try and analyze.
The timing could be considered suspicious though, since it happens soon after I get voted by Lefty and Ircher..
And what makes it worse?

UNVOTE: Lefty
(was RVS)

..is followed right after.
Now, if you people would really TRY to see this from my PoV, this unvote is a concerning thing all in all.
It indirectly supports Leftys vote and scumread towards me, while avoiding a stance on me himself.

I disagree with having your vote somewhere at all times, it loses it's meaning and emphasis for when it's actually a valuable tool

Guess I can't argue about this though, as it's more of a question of personal preference I think.

Town
Ircher - Very methodical and his points make sense to me.
Stan1ey - Right now this is gut, I'll put it into words why exactly I'm townreading Stan1ey soon.
Lefty - Is engaged with the game and is making a point of interacting with people.

While I might disagree with other parts of the list s well, having stan1ey and Lefty this high on the list are the most alarming things about it to me.
I do not outright scumread Draynth at this point, but I can see many advantageous avenues for scum!Draynth to venture in the coming days.

DRAYNTH IS A SLOT YOU ALL NEED TO GET A SOLID READ ON BEFORE LYLO.

Just make sure you get him to post more later..

VOTE: UnaBombah

That is L-1. Nobody else should vote Una without first declaring intent to hammer.

This is fine considering I was at the bottom of your list at this point.

Una should only claim if intent to hammer is posted.

+

Wait.
Una is perfectly fine to not claim if nobody is declaring intent, why would he?
If everybody starts prematurely claiming that's a horrendous situation for town to be in and only benefits scum.

Both promote a towny mindset.
Scum!Draynth doesn't need to protect my claim, they'd be very eager to get it at this point..!

It seems to be a believable point of view for Una, where as if you tried to pull it off I'd probably scumread you for it.

Basically I'm unsure of what this makes me think of the Una slot.

While this could be considered fence-sitty (the last line = bad), it finally shows critical thinking towards Leftys wonky scumcase on me. (=good)

I still think Una is probably scum by the way, the last line just refers to this specific point of contention being discussed.

OK, this actually clears it up more.
So the previous post from him was mainly good then.

[UnaBombaH]

YOU are the one that keeps bringing up the fact that you are the IC as if it makes a difference, not me. Literally no one has used your position in this game as a reason to SR you. I’m not paranoid of you because you’re the IC, you’re right about that.

I'm not even sure what we disagree on here!
I've brought up my IC-status only in the sense that THIS GAME HASN'T HAD THOSE CHARACTERISTICS.
That is to say - if we have a newbie-scum, they aren't using that as an avenue.
And yet again, just pressing the point why I've said it multiple times - IT IS VERY COMMON IN NEWBIE GAMES.

I’m taking the soft claim with a pinch of salt.

Absolutely no surprises there.
I bet you just wanted to hear me claim so that there's no 50/50 about where to shoot?

IMO the hint itself is NAI because scum would do the same in this situation under pressure with the the DL looming. Anything but a PR claim gets them lynched 9/10 times.

This is yet again flawed in the sense that there hasn't ever been an intent to hammer with sufficient votes to back it up.
Not once this game.
So you are actually pushing for a narrative where I'm literally the only possibility for a lynch.
That is not towny.

[UnaBombaH]

There's no reason for me to ISO-case the lowest posters for now.
I've read them all, but since they all seem to have separate perspectives I'd argue there's no way they hold all the scum anyway.
They get prodded/replaced, and we sort their replacements D2 etc. (nulls in the middle with white)

UnaBombaH, Ircher

OnlyIAmMe, Draynth

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
KernelRunaway (I'd say there are good thoughts there, but too little content to feel anything solid)
FChariot ("TRUEnewbie"-vibes. Very scared to commit to anything though, so if this is scum, it's an all-newbie team more than likely. No support from/to anyone.)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Myloninja13 (I think they are capable of more. Even though it would be "easy" to say I like their content for not scumreading me, but I think they've been very low-effort in reality.)

Lefty

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

stan1ey

Extra comments:

OIaM has some very good posts, and some very questionable ones.
I'm willing to lean town just because the good posts also seem to be the ones with more content and effort in them.
IF they are scum, they are being "coached" in the scum thread, nothing else could explain so bipolar posting IMO!
That in turn would imply a solid scumbuddy, someone who knows what they are doing..and I'd say Lefty might be able to fill that.

LEFTY SEEMS TO BE EVEN MORE EXPERIENCED AND BETTER IN THIS GAME THAN THEY LET ON.

Take them seriously, no matter what your current reads on them are.

[UnaBombaH]

Lefty (2) - OnlyIAmMe

I see OIaM is secretly a doublevoter..!

[UnaBombaH]

OK, I'm off to enjoy my day off!
Will be back within ~12hours, but probably phoneposting/reading only.

Let's make a reasonable lynch happen before friday if at all possible - us Finns really like to celebrate our mid-summer..

I'll be very much intoxicated and having a blast IRL fri-sun.

[UnaBombaH]

There's a list of very valid reasons for me to not hardclaim as of now.
Spelling them out is probably antitown in the event we are against a team of newbie-scum, so I wished you could reach the conclusions for yourselves.
I've also crumbed.

I'll throw one more line for you guys - right now scum don't know which side of the coin I am.
Telling them outright might ruin another townplayers night as there's a chance for any of us being blocked/killed.

My slot will resolve itself, guaranteed.

[UnaBombaH]

so youll likely be lynched anyway...

*night killed

*wondering if this was a scumslip*

[UnaBombaH]

So we are all "fine" with a FC-lynch..

But no one is "fine" with a stan1ey-lynch? (I threw that name into the basket, and Ircher apparently is "fine" with that too).
No one has further said whether they now scumread/townread me after all the long walls I did, which makes me think most didn't even read them?
There's no way those posts were null in any way - you should either scum- or townlean me by now.

I'll vote for FC before I leave to the cabin for the weekend today unless someone else joins the stan1ey-wagon before that.

[UnaBombaH]

OK, by my count that's 3 votes on FC.
I'll participate now since I'll apparently be away during the EoD-deadline, so that my vote is at least of use. (I'm afraid with all the inactives that we might slide into a no-lynch by accident)

I'll also say it here to make sure that no one (*name redacted*) will try to pin the pending mislynch on me: I don't think FC will flip scum.

I think they are more likely just a newbie-lynchbait, but I do agree that they are probably the least harmful lynch we could do today (unless people decide to suddenly agree with my scumreads).
And any lynch is better than no lynch D1.

[UnaBombaH]

OK, a very good, concise catchup from BlackVoid.
I have something to comment and ask in return though..

UnaBombah is experienced enough to know that it is very unlikely for scum to play that way.

1. I started playing only last year. (not even a year ago yet! )

2. I do not think it's outside of the realm of possibility to say that Lefty was trying to buddy/pocket Ircher.
My original "concern" (more of a speculation really if you look back at it) about them BOTH being scum together was mainly raised from how they seemed to mindmeld on anything and everything.
I've seen only few examples of it on this site, and usually it can only happen when two players "know" each other, OR THE PLAYERS THEY ARE BOTH READING, very well.
These two just seemed to be on the same step from the get go, and that is extremely rare, considering they apparently have never played together..
So I thought it more likely that they let their "shared PoV" shine through, than that they really meshed so well from the start.

For comparison:

read the latter half of Irchers ISO, and you finally start to see things where they disagree on.

3. I do not believe in thinking "what is unlikely". I just think that the LIKELIEST scenario is OFTEN true, but that doesn't mean any type of behaviour is impossible for scum/town.
So simply saying that their behaviour is "unlikely for scum" would be very lazy from me after I really scumread Lefty and notice a connection..

Scumreading UnaBombaH but I'll elaborate more once I look through his meta. I've vaguely followed a few games of his and my impression was that he was pretty obvtown as town

To be fair, even I do not think I have "obv.towned" this game.
But I do think it would've been obvious to many a playerlist that I had been softing a PR for a long time before outright saying it.

THAT BEING SAID - I'd like to question whether I'm nearly ever an actual obv.town to anyone who hasn't played with me a lot.

I pretty much always have to work for being townread, and I'd guess I would have a lot trouble doing it with a completely strange/new playerlist (as seen in here )

@BlackVoid - are you an alt? Or how did you come to read any of my games?

(I usually remember pretty much everyone I have played with)

[UnaBombaH]

Una, correct me if I'm wrong. I haven't been fully reading your posts. Is the reason you didn't participate in the fc wagon because as an IC you wanted FChariot to have a good time too?

Oh man, as much as I'd like to say "yes", I'm not that good of a dude..
I admit to having been way too lazy early in the game, especially considering my voluntary "job", and I completely missed the wagon forming!
Go check that post where I urge everyone to vote anyone.
Its basically right after a votecount that shows everyone had already voted..
One of the things I felt suspicious off, was that while Lefty interpreted that as me wanting to avoid a specific wagon, he never brought this very obvious tell forward..
Because it didn't fit a narrative..?

[UnaBombaH]

I’ll compromise and lynch FC here because if they flip scum that just solidifies my take on Una for avoiding discussion about the FC wagon.

..the problems being that FC is likely just newbie-town and this "connection" being flawed.

[UnaBombaH]

Oh man.. one never hopes for this many replacements..
I hope the rest of you stick with us!

[UnaBombaH]

I'm just always very

protective of my claim

.

+

protect

my claim

+

there might be reason for the L-1'd player NOT to claim.

+

If you really read more than one of my games, you might actually have a solid read on WHY this is my towngame.
I've left hints, believe me, it's there..

...and I think that was the last one before basically saying out loud I am a PR.

I wanted to avoid being killed N1/blocked every night after in the scenario where scum has a roleblocker.
As long as scum only know one of our PRs there is a chance they might RB/kill me, but they have no idea whether I'm the investigative or the protective, and therefore always have the 50/50 of losing a kill (if I'm protected) or getting guiltied by the still hidden PR (if I'm the protective).

I have no reason not to fullclaim at this point.
Tried to protect Ircher - he died anyway.
We are playing A3 - I am a town Doctor and after stan1ey flipped Cop I obviously found out that scum have a roleblocker.

I'm disappointed in the fact that we lynched stan1ey without them being able to claim, but the reason why I didn't want to fullclaim should also now be self-explanatory.
I didn't know whether scum had a roleblocker, I didn't know who or what was our other PR.
I had already decided that I would protect Ircher as he was apparently the strongest townie around.

In the scenario where our other PR would have claimed I would've obviously saved them every night.

(although if stan1ey had claimed, they would just blocked me and killed him anyway.. )

Now that we lost our Cop D1, the end-result is obviously going to be the same UNLESS WE LYNCH SCUM TODAY.

IF ANYONE COUNTERCLAIMS DOCTOR, DO IT IN YOUR NEXT POST.

[UnaBombaH]

The last two quotes of myself are references to my earlier games, and that is why I included the part about "If you really read more than one of my games, you might actually have a solid read on WHY this is my towngame."
I'm quite well known for always crumbing when I'm a PR.
I normally try to not make it as obvious as I had to in the end here, but then again, I was at a risk of being mislynched D1 as Doc..

ANOTHER THING THAT HAS HAPPENED TO ME IN ONE OF MY EARLIEST NEWBIE-GAMES.

So what we really need, it to hit a scum today.
That forces them to NK me and everything resolves itself nicely before LyLo.

[UnaBombaH]

Apparently I didn't think it thoroughly enough then..?
I don't consider myself a selfish player, but I thought it was a better move for us all if I don't get fully outed D1.
I wanted to have a shot at protecting Ircher/a PR-read if I had one.

I thought it from a perspective that if scum DOESN'T have a roleblocker, they would have to use their kill on me, or risk a guilty/save N1.

[UnaBombaH]

So here's what I need from you: give me links to games where you were a PR and link to the posts where you claimed and where you crumbed.

I hope you realize this is still a lot!
Linking to an older quote from an older ISO I have to dive from an older game..

But guess what - I'll do it tomorrow/thursday.
It's 23.05 in Finland, I'm already tired after work and was about to go to sleep.
I'll compile a longer list of these either tomorrow (when I have a shorter day at work) or thursday (day off).

[UnaBombaH]

You also claimed that your role is "self-resolving." That's wrong. Only Cop and JK are self-resolving. Now we're in pretty much the same situation with you that we were in on D1.

This was, in fact, me TRYING to draw the nightkill over the block if at all possible.
But like said, once stan1ey flipped cop, scum had no reason to guess what I am anymore.
I still went with a protect on Ircher, fully predicting the outcome, but obviously doing it still.

Shouldn't these be the other way around? If scum have a roleblocker, you should WANT To be nightkilled because you can't be confirmed town and a suspicious slot has been eliminated.

Me WANTING something does not equal what scum will/should optimally do.
Of course I would prefer being nightkilled rather than be left alive and blocked, but if they have a chance to block me, why would they need to kill me then?

[UnaBombaH]

I can actually probably link you to a game where I decided to try and draw the nightkill on myself as well after D1, to make sure I wouldn't be around as WIFOM and a hindrance to town..
But now I'm off to sleep.
I at least assume people have something else to discuss for ~12hours? (as to not be called a "staller" again! )

[UnaBombaH]

I'll make that quote-list of my past crumbs since I already promised to, but I hate how people think my meta is going to tell them anything SOLID.
If you paid attention, you'd have seen I even slightly discredited Mylos townread on me, simply because he claimed it was based only on meta. And that was a townread.
I think meta has a time and place, but it doesn't help you sort me without anything else to combine it with.

[UnaBombaH]

Apparently I can't link to the exact post easily enough, so I'll try to give a link to the game, and quote the relevant posts.
If you really think I'd be stupid enough to fake any of them, you can check my ISO from the game-link then.

This first example was my first ever Normal game, and like my third game overall. I was a Rolecop.

Subject: Mini Normal 1931 | Endgame

UnaBombaH or sunlit are both fine lynches for today

Claiming role: TEAMPLAYER

In my second post of the game nontheless..!

Subject: Mini Normal 1931 | Endgame

Oh, and in all seriousness,

are there really any set roles in the game

? (don't be stupid, I'm not asking anyone

to claim

)

This was mainly just to throw something out there to follow my start up.
This was so long ago that I might've actually been confused as to what roles were allowed in Normals, but instead of looking it up, I decided to word it so that I can point to it later.

Subject: Mini Normal 1931 | Endgame

On the plus on this one I got RC lynched

..combined with..
Subject: Mini Normal 1931 | Endgame

Also, he got RC lynched and Im a fanboy.
If he flips town, this wagon was a counter and

Im gonna RC

the shit out of Sunlit after.

^^..was me abusing the fact that mulch mentioned RadiantCowbells (to anyone who doesn't know: a very good and experienced player on site). I went that far for a crumb that I could maybe abuse later too, and point to in the end..

Subject: Mini Normal 1931 | Endgame

I can persuade anyone,

Im totally RC

.

..as you can see here.
This is how far ahead I had planned that crumb.

Subject: Mini Normal 1931 | Endgame

like i'm fully aware that fl/paul/una is not a viable team. but they probably had the shittiest reasons for being on me.

I honestly had the best one!

This was me hinting that I had checked Mario N1 and found out he had fakeclaimed.

These are the ones from that game that I was able to find easily.
I'll try to find a few other examples from other games now.

[UnaBombaH]

This one had an even more sick setup for the start of my crumbs..!

I WAS A TOWN UNIVERSAL BACKUP HERE. (so I mainly wanted to get a "tub" or two in there..!

Subject: Mini Normal 1969 - Blessed Mafia (Werewolf Win)

I think BAHs are over-appreciated anyway..!

Baths on the other hand..

..was always going to be a setup for..
Subject: Mini Normal 1969 - Blessed Mafia (Werewolf Win)

Baths on the other hand..

I'll stop spamming now,

you'll find me the tub

when we can get to playing.

Notice the intentional typo in here.
Everyone would just think I missed the "in" there, but..

Subject: Mini Normal 1969 - Blessed Mafia (Werewolf Win)

We had discussed "cinematic universes" and agreed on how lame the idea of The

Universal

s Dark Universe -Cinematic Universe is..

..you should get the point already.

[UnaBombaH]

Don't wanna clutter the thread but if you want a third example, I did something very similar in 2018 TeamMafia.
I was a

Town Backup Doc

, and I started with a very "out there" crumb in saying "buttock" - a word I doubt I'd ever use anywhere else - and was ready to twist it into "BuDoc" but didn't want to go through the hassle. (I did use that acronym later in the game though )
I then dropped something like "second opinion", called myself a "bud" of someone (BackUpDoc), mentioned having a "backup-plan" etc etc.

This is what I do as a PR no matter the game, and I REALLY dislike fakeclaiming as scum, so if meta is what you were looking for, everything points to me being town, and my role being exactly what I say it is - I'm a Doctor.

Now I'll do a proper catchup with reads tomorrow, and I hope we can move past the claim, and try to solve the game with actual scumhunting!

[UnaBombaH]

I'll make a thorough reread today, and try to arrange my thoughts.

[UnaBombaH]

@UnaBomber, thanks for the quotes you linked. So my question for you is that in those games, you always softed early and often. But in this game, it took until you were at L-1 for you to drop the "protect" crumb

Because all the other roles were either investigatives or BackUps.
Normal Doctor should never need to crumb obviously, all they need to do is stay hidden in the mass and try to land a save, but once it seemed clear more than one player was never going to untunnel, I had to do something.
If my crumbs had been noted and reacted on, I would've never had to go further, and there still might have been a chance for us to get use of my powers..

[UnaBombaH]

See if UnaH crumbed anything in his scumgame in the Dynamic Duo games.

Also check my third newbie, I was a Doc there too and didn't crumb.
I probably would've done the same I did here if I had the chance, but those ungrateful trolls lynched me in my sleep..

[UnaBombaH]

I want you to realize that it's important for you all to either trust me now, or we lynch me today.
In the unfortunate scenario where we mislynch today, tomorrow would be a LyLo and there's absolutely no room for "paranoid about Una" there.
So it's actually quite a big deal to get my slot sorted, for all of us.
I'll get to the meat of the game soon, it's just that I've been phoneposting and -reading a lot.

[UnaBombaH]

Read my walls from D1.
And prepare for one more during D2..

[UnaBombaH]

I'm still suspicious of OIAM, but I'm a tiny bit concerned that they seem to be such a popular lynch here.

Try to shake these kind of thoughts until the flip - then you can try to analyze it all in retrospect, with the context of the alignment.

OIAM (or anyone else obv.) being a "popular" lynch isn't alignment indicative on anyone on the wagon or OIAM himself either until they flip.
AFTER we KNOW whether the wagon was on scum or town, THEN we can try to nitpick the wagon.

And lastly - if anything - shouldn't it be more likely for the wagon to be on scum than town if it's "popular"?
Scum are outnumbered you remember?

[UnaBombaH]

Readlist coming today after work.

[UnaBombaH]

So that is a thing that happened.
Sorry guys for being away, it has been bumpy IRL.

[UnaBombaH]

If Jay is somehow town, they have played very much anti-wincon IMO.
Then again, this IS a newbiegame, but I think the point about hammers was made more or less clear after D1 anyway.. so not many excuses can be made for him anymore.

I'd approach the hammers from the PoV of "who benefited the most out of the discussion being shutdown?"
That should lead us closer to who might be their buddy.

[UnaBombaH]

I think Leftys D1 fits even better to that feeling I got from Derpy in that other Newbie I linked to earlier..
Overly aggressive, trying to run me down from the get-go, and ends up being scumread by D3.
I don't think there's any other reasonable lynch for today anyway.

[UnaBombaH]

Oh yeah, protected no one.
Didn't think it was even worth the try at this point.
I honestly didn't even think about this game during the night phase - I've been very occupied IRL..

[UnaBombaH]

Scum-RB can't roleblock and kill at the same time, right?
Meaning that no matter which role Jay flips, scum have to kill me tonight or risk a save from me..
Which should be enough for us to get a good chance to win in LyLo.

[UnaBombaH]

They can, it says it in the sample role pm in the OP post.
That felt kind of forced though

The Normal-game guidelines changed so that they can't do both, so I actually assumed it was the same for newbies too..

Maybe I should've read the starting posts then..?

[UnaBombaH]

The problem with "Una tomorrow", is that we need to lynch two scum in a row to win.
It doesn't help us at all if Jay flips scum, and you then autolynch me tomorrow.
Town loses at that point.
This is exactly why I said that I should've been the lynch yesterday if at all - WIFOM/Paranoia -scumreads have no place in LyLo.

[UnaBombaH]

Where did you say yesterday you should've been lynched?

Got you covered.

I want you to realize that it's important for you all to either trust me now, or we lynch me today.

In the unfortunate scenario where we mislynch today, tomorrow would be a LyLo and there's absolutely no room for "paranoid about Una" there.
So it's actually quite a big deal to get my slot sorted, for all of us.

[UnaBombaH]

VOTE: Jay the Scum

[UnaBombaH]

Well played OkaPoka!
You carried the baddies to victory!

Big thanks to Huntress for modding, you did a bang up job!

Sorry for every townie for the loss - there are things that should be talked about

CONSTRUCTIVELY

(not in a negative manner!!!) with Jay.
But I can honestly say that I believe OkaPoka was absolutely capable (and almost likely) to take the game even with me being lynched.

Kudos for Lefty and Ircher for weeding me out D1!
I'd love to say that it was only because I haven't been playing up to my usual level, but in truth your pressure was hard enough that I ended up contradicting and making poor, hasty decision.
Townie!Una can be a lot more chill under the pressure, and REALLY not worry about being lynched.
I tried to mimic my PR-play, but I propably pushed it too far into "panic". And I def. didn't scumhunt at all.

All in all, GG to everyone, and I hope you keep playing on this site!
I'll be transitioning to a hiatus of some length, but I hope to see you around on the site. (I frequent the normal-queue)