Heroes Wanted! (Game Over)

[Toranaga]

If Math needed 3 votes to beat me doesn't this point to not Math scum? Otherwise, we are assuming that a rouge town voted Math.

he is obvscum

the theory is that since math can't self vote, the numbers don't add up unless wolves pack voted town math, you see? that's why drixx is saying it. I thought that was why you were saying it too but I see you haven't got there yet...

[Toranaga]

unpetrify sakura, nancy

[Toranaga]

you're all horrible

except for whoever is scum other than mathblade

[Toranaga]

Yeah Tor+Nancy+Sakura seems pretty good for scumlist right about now.

Why does scum petrify Sakura if she’s scum? Please explain how this makes any sense at all?

But I - the only one who is making this argument, based on 100% common sense - is in your POE.

did you use healing already? where is sakura?

[Toranaga]

p sure you were supposed to vote me. @Nancy

I’m pretty sure I was supposed to vote Ausaka because she was supposed to dayvig.

no

congrats on absolutely fucking the game up if you're town

[Toranaga]

great effort, theta

[Toranaga]

sure why not

VOTE: toranaga

go scum go

[Toranaga]

lynch me before nancy has to come up with even more excuses for not unpetrifying sakura btw

it's getting cringe to read that shit

[Toranaga]

all the scum voted town!math yesterday, don't you know sando? that makes sense doesn't it?

[Toranaga]

you're all horrible

except for whoever is scum other than mathblade

I didn't see you even engaging with the logic that clears Math. I'll wait.

math is scum

I'm not gonna drag myself to argue against a logic that says every scum was in the pool that was supposed to vote nero, and then voted math instead and outed themselves

you're awful and I don't care about arguing against horrible logic. math is obviously always scum, of course, but you idiots are clearing him for absolutely appalling reasoning.

anyway ok, bye

[Toranaga]

yeah math is totally town

I'm scum

I concede

lynch me

[Toranaga]

It was already claimed earlier. Someone echoed me onto him.

Yeah I know, but who? I think Nancy claimed it? Which would mean Nancy didn't petrify, or Scum3 echo'd while Nancy petrified.

kokichi did it, that's why I'm not dead

MATHBLADE petrified. you know, the guy that fucking has petrify?

[Toranaga]

it's horrible because you're suggesting that all scum voted for a town leader and outed themselves doing so drixx

you're absolutely appalling. the part of your brain that was supposed to go "hey wait a minute, that doesn't really make sense now does it?" doesn't function

scum would never pile onto a town vote and out themselves

[Toranaga]

I just did bomb, yes? I bombed theta if you didn't notice

I didn't bomb nancy cause I think she is protected and if she is not I want her to unpetrify sakura cause I think sakura is town

[Toranaga]

You’re forgetting that I picked an actual power that helps town, which is good, since I am the only one left who still has it.

I DGAF about that, I actually want to help town win.

Prove it.

Sure as soon as 6 people tell me to.

WHAT?

JUST FUCKING DO IT

[Toranaga]

you just threw the game by not voting nero AS WE SAID A MILLION TIMES yesterday and now you dare, you fucking dare to fucking stall on this

unpetrify sakura please

[Toranaga]

it's horrible because you're suggesting that all scum voted for a town leader and outed themselves doing so drixx

you're absolutely appalling. the part of your brain that was supposed to go "hey wait a minute, that doesn't really make sense now does it?" doesn't function

scum would never pile onto a town vote and out themselves

The very fact that you are refusing to acknowledge the plain facts of the numbers because you don't believe scum would do something is why you don't belong namecalling anyone.

Interact with the logic. My first instinct when the day started was that Math was scum. At this point, the only way math can be scum is if:

1.) Town players literally game threw (would have to be you refusing to admit you didn't vote nero and/or some combination of Ausuka and Sakura going off plan).

2.) Scum have some hidden ability which allowed them to override the leader vote in some fashion.


You refuse to respond to the logic, so I'm going to assume you can find no problems with it. That means you are choosing to believe something we have no evidence for to justify a read you have flip/flopped on for quite awhile. That's irrational.

no, you're irrational. that's brainless crap. we simply do not know what happened at night. what I know is that I voted for nero cain and that math knew he was going to win anyway yesterday because he gave us half the precog powers wrong. which is something you're not even interacting with anyway, you just explain away that math has 3 wrong ass powers yesterday as... what? maybe scum has blablabla abilities, which I can say the exact same thing about why mathblade is leader and we're left with nothing to go with

math sounds like scum, that's why he is scum. I flip flopped on it but I was the only one adamant about it and imo math absolutely outed himself last gameday, which sure you can't see it, you think town!math was voted by a pool of scum in the towncore and you caught them LOL

so yeah I'm not gonna do this. I just can't scream for days just to win a shitty mafia game. I didn't lynch math, so I lose, and that's it really.

[Toranaga]

@Drixx help me do a KPN? I need to plot some shit out.

I already pointed it out earlier. Worst case (given what we know) is a kill plus echoed petrify.

We're now at 11 which makes it 8v3

If we mislynch it's 7v3

A kill plus 2 petrifies would put us into LYLO and we would have to nail the scum with petrify.

You didn’t do one if Sakura is scum?
What is it like if Sakura is scum and Nancy doesn’t heal and I petrify or kill her instead?

I am thinking lynch Tor I petrify Nancy here and she doesn’t heal so we just win?

Assuming it is Tor/Nancy/Sakura. If not then it is just Gamma yeah?

I am kinda not wanting Nancy to heal I think?

D3890DH893AJDP93KDA03KDA3[DKADA
DAKLDJASPDJ32098FDJ3ANKD
D
DKSL;DJSADJASKL;DAS

DASBFA3NAHAHAHHAHAHA

YOU'RE LOSING TO THIS DAIODJH390DJA09P

[Toranaga]

Sando is my dark horse pick for 3rd scum. Him wanting Tora to bomb Sakura made me

yes its me/nancy/sando and mathblade is town

[Toranaga]

math why are today's powers not matching what you said they were?

[Toranaga]

I can totally see sando being scum here

he wanted me to blow theta up, now he is like "oh so tora is confscum"

JD0938JDA09DJHA09DJA

[Toranaga]

math why are today's powers not matching what you said they were?

I don’t know.

why are you not even concerned about it, scum?

[Toranaga]

"if we lynch tor then nancy can't heal sakura"

WHAT? WHAT WHAT WHAT WHAT WHAT?

[Toranaga]

lynch me before nancy has to come up with even more excuses for not unpetrifying sakura btw

it's getting cringe to read that shit

If you think Math is scum, then you shouldn’t want me to use heal without double doc protection tonight. I didn’t use my bp last night I did echo on Math instead, so if I don’t get double doc and if Math is scum, I absolutely need that because he or someone else will use redirect on one of the docs and it would make sense of scum to kill the healer. I don’t want town to lose, so if I can get guaranteed double doc tonight and the majority think it’s nedt, thrn why the hell wouldn’t I heal? I will do it immediately, if both of those things happen. If Marh is scum and town either mislynches me, or scum kills me tonight, we WILL lose.

I don't care about your life in this game

you're resolvable now because you're the reason mathblade is the fucking leader

own up to it. unpetrify sakura hana right fucking now nancy.

[Toranaga]

@Tora - Math got a new power we hadn't seen right. How on earth do you explain that? We have evidence that Math knew some of today's powers correctly ahead of time.

The most likely explanation, honestly, is mod error. If B.S. made an error, the correct mod action is to say nothing and let it play out. Saying anything (even if just privately to Math) only furthers the damage to the game.

What makes you think I didn't think about that or was ignoring it?

mod error my fucking ass

[Toranaga]

inconsistencies with math's claims? MOD ERROR
SCUM FACTIONAL ABILITIES

ANYTHING BUT MATH!SCUM

but hey was math voted leader? IT CAN'T BE ANYTHING ELSE BUT TORA!SCUM

trolololololol

I hope you're town drixx, you're hilarious

[Toranaga]

VOTE: Nancy

Also Tor/Nancy, you're both toxic AF.

I can handle Nancy.

Nancy if scum is newb scum. She will not outwifom me.

Please. Work with me here Sando.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

[Toranaga]

VOTE: Nancy

Also Tor/Nancy, you're both toxic AF.

yeah I don't give a fuck if I'm toxic right now

[Toranaga]

@Tora - Math got a new power we hadn't seen right. How on earth do you explain that? We have evidence that Math knew some of today's powers correctly ahead of time.

The most likely explanation, honestly, is mod error. If B.S. made an error, the correct mod action is to say nothing and let it play out. Saying anything (even if just privately to Math) only furthers the damage to the game.

What makes you think I didn't think about that or was ignoring it?

mod error my fucking ass

Explain how Math just magically got the brand new power we hadn't seen before AND in the right spot on the list. I'll wait.

he used precog, then he removed all the important shit we could have today so we wouldn't be concerned with leader voting, we'd keep only 4 people there, and scum could do what scum did that made him leader

THINK MCFLY

[Toranaga]

I also love how Tora's like: "No scum would out themselves with this vote town!Math bullshit" and also "Math would totally just out himself by lying about today's powers for no real reason".

he can't die today and he wins the game tonight

you're delusional if you're town

[Toranaga]

lynch me today cause I can blow myself up tomorrow and get town with me

I'm dangerous

[Toranaga]

alternatively, scum can have a saying in what goes or doesn't go as abilities the next day

if there was mod error, there would be a mod announcement. you can't assume mod error to clear math for this.

[Toranaga]

nononono

has nothing to do with gamma

me and nancy were ALREADY getting heat before gamma said anything

you don't even know if gamma is town saying this btw

[Toranaga]

nancy you're dead

the lynch is me or you. you don't get doc LOL. are you nuts? you are the reason mathblade is leader. so you die.

[Toranaga]

alternatively, scum can have a saying in what goes or doesn't go as abilities the next day

if there was mod error, there would be a mod announcement. you can't assume mod error to clear math for this.

The Dream Weaver announcing mod error would be indicative of me using the power and thus make me an unkillable IC.

no it's not

it's indicative of mod error

was it mod error? why don't you ask brian?

[Toranaga]

hey maybe mathblade being leader is also a mod error

[Toranaga]

unkillable IC my ass btw

you're still scum if you used precog LOL

[Toranaga]

you dont know if he used precog before? lol

yeah no he is town, I'm scum and you're right, nero cain

you got this bro

[Toranaga]

mathblade's posts are all extremely scummy btw

are you all tone deaf?

[Toranaga]

alternatively, scum can have a saying in what goes or doesn't go as abilities the next day

if there was mod error, there would be a mod announcement. you can't assume mod error to clear math for this.

Umm... you're mistaken. B.S. is a very good mod. If he made an error with the list, he would know that the correct move is to say nothing and limit the damage. A mod announcement that an error was made basically clears Math. Uncertainty vs. making a player IC. It's obvious which is the correct choice for a mod.

What I KNOW is that Math nailed a new power in the right spot. I also know that Math ended up leader in a situation where that's not possible without 3 votes for Math. I know there's 3 scum left. Therefore Math cannot be scum.

That leaves me having to assume either a mod error or a scum ability are the most likely explanations for Math having a partially correct list.

IF HE IS A GOOD MOD HE IS NOT MESSING UP 3 OF NEXT DAY ABILITIES, DRIXX

[Toranaga]

fuck off tor.

watching you try to solve a mafia game is frankly one of the funniest things I've read in this site

[Toranaga]

fuck off tor.

watching you try to solve a mafia game is frankly one of the funniest things I've read in this site

how many town have you lynched this game?

was I trying to lynch scum!math and you started insulting me last gameday? yeah that happened

was I defending toogeloo?

I killed theta. I outed math. I'm at least better than you who did nothing and is tunneling town.

[Toranaga]

Then vote Tor with me. If we lynch Tor Nancy then can’t heal Sakura.

Because Tor can't use a power tonight, since he just used bomb. Nancy almost definitely doesn't have heal and has petrify from N3 instead, so we're just left with what the 3rd scummer can do.

Yes I do and I keep on getting fucking attacked for insisting on both doing what the majority wants and for insisting on double doc.

If Math is town, then I only need one doc, unless he gives power to scum and they pick it and redirect one doc. They can only redirect one of them. That’s my point. So Sando, UFO? Drixx? want me to heal withoit assuming me of protection? Why wouldn’t scum kill me tonight - whomever they are, when I am the only one who can reverse it?

Will I get guaranteed double doc AFTER I heal? Yes or no? And do the majority want me to do this?


YES

or

No?

VOTE: nancy drew

if you're town you're a shame

[Toranaga]

nancy can you realise no one wants you alive? it'd make the whole process easier.

[Toranaga]

"I will only heal sakura if I'm promised protection" that's, what

no town thinks that

[Toranaga]

dont petrify me

dont do it please, I need to flip

I'm town

I need to flip town so you can kill math

[Toranaga]

kill me anyway if I'm petrified so I can flip, yes? that's smart play

[Toranaga]

"I will only heal sakura if I'm promised protection" that's, what

no town thinks that

They do if they are the only protective.

she has to heal sakura, period. bargaining with town is frankly pathetic and no way nancy does it unless she is scum or like, really unhinged.

[Toranaga]

"I will only heal sakura if I'm promised protection" that's, what

no town thinks that

They do if they are the only protective.

she has to heal sakura, period. bargaining with town is frankly pathetic and no way nancy does it unless she is scum or like, really unhinged.

With a game like this.
Really unhinged is an option.

However you are confscum

We need confscum bodies flipping now

why am I confscum again? is it because you're leader? lol

[Toranaga]

This literally lets scum Tor+Nancy use an extra power...WHY MATH WHY?!

b/c Math is REALLY scum

fyp

[Toranaga]

dont petrify me

dont do it please, I need to flip

I'm town

I need to flip town so you can kill math

Lynch Tor petrify Nancy.

Problem solved

This literally lets scum Tor+Nancy use an extra power...WHY MATH WHY?!

NO IT DOESN’T

Petrify stops the submission of actions!
Read it!

MATHBLADE DOESNT EVEN CONSIDER THAT SCUM OBVIOUSLY HAS POWER NEGATION OR SIMILAR SINCE AUSUKA DIED

AUSUKA WAS SUPPOSED TO USE PHASING AND NOT DIE LAST NIGHT

MATHBLADE IS UNCONCERNED WITH THIS TO FLIP ME FIRST BECAUSE MATHBLADE IS SCUM

WORK WITH THIS LOGIC DRIXX. THINK THIS FUCKING SHIT THROUGH.

[Toranaga]

BTW

isn't "submit actions"... a vote too? isn't a vote an action?

[Toranaga]

do we have mod confirmation that petrification doesnt stop voting for leader?

[Toranaga]

do we have mod confirmation that petrification doesnt stop voting for leader?

Yes

where is that said anywhere? did you ask the mod and he replied to you privately?

[Toranaga]

nobody objects to you doing this nancy

only you object to it

and math who is obvscum

[Toranaga]

do we have mod confirmation that petrification doesnt stop voting for leader?

Yes

where is that said anywhere? did you ask the mod and he replied to you privately?

cause any powers questions were supposed to be on p1. there's nothing about this there.

[Toranaga]

if you think I'm toxic, consider the possibility that I'm town and math is scum, and I'm having to deal with everyone's bullshit rn

that's why I'm pissed. I excuse myself for being pissed.

[Toranaga]

ok I just asked the mod the same thing, hopefully he replies to me

[Toranaga]

I'm town
I voted nero cain
I mimicked nosferatu and got nothing
I got sui bomb and blew theta alpine up

that's it. I did what I said I'd do and math is leader somehow.

[Toranaga]

lay out your Math case oh wise one

just last gameday, he didn't care what my defense of hebichan meant wrt hebichan's alignment, remember? now consider you're a town on a deathtunnel of someone. would you not re-engage your read on that slot based off the actions your strongest scum suspect had?

consider precog on d2 and how likely it is that scum was coordinating between titus and mathblade.

consider that mathblade gave powers to stungun, allegedly, and stungun died

consider that scum petrified someone, and mathblade is one of the players who had access to petrification. you know who never got access to petrification? me.

other than scumreading titus, everything math did in this game is antitown. from that horrible sui bomb idea (imagine how bad that would be considering what we already had last night) to tunneling almost exclusively dead town players, the man is openwolfing for weeks. I'm sorry I'm nasty and a dick, but this is really obvious if you're paying attention to the game.

[Toranaga]

We have two unresolved paradox's:

How are the powers different to what town!Math said?

How can scum get scum!Math elected leader?

Claiming that people are fucking stupid for believing one while not addressing the other is just...fucking...toxic.

the powers are different because its mod confirmed that they're different

scum can get scum!math elected leader if one of ausuka/sakura forgot their actions, or scum has a factional that can change leader votes, that we don't know.

so am I not being toxic anymore? you're clearly working on faulty logic.

[Toranaga]

THE MOD JUST SAID he cannot answer my question

so how come creature and nosferatu can have their questions answered?

what did you ask, nos?

[Toranaga]

We have two unresolved paradox's:

How are the powers different to what town!Math said?

How can scum get scum!Math elected leader?

Claiming that people are fucking stupid for believing one while not addressing the other is just...fucking...toxic.

the powers are different because its mod confirmed that they're different

scum can get scum!math elected leader if one of ausuka/sakura forgot their actions, or scum has a factional that can change leader votes, that we don't know.

so am I not being toxic anymore? you're clearly working on faulty logic.

So scum cannot possibly have the ability to mess with the next days powers, but scum could possibly have the power to change leader votes?

they can have both

math is still scum 100% of the time

[Toranaga]

mod clarification that leader votes aren't actions so they're not affected by petrification

nancy voted mathblade or the game makes no sense

I voted nero cain

[Toranaga]

I don't think sakura is ever scum and I don't think scum!sakura and scum!nancy decided to FPS vote mathblade just for shits and giggles

[Toranaga]

ok I'm getting modkilled

should probably never play on MS again anyway

[Toranaga]

I can prove mathblade is scum

ready?

[Toranaga]

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

[Toranaga]

Thought Dump

Spoiler:

Not sure why scum would become so apparent by using petrify.
I dont understand what game they are playing.
This could be the last chance to lynch scum.

Spoiler:

Nero would've won a tie, so there were 2 scum in Nero's leadership wagon and 1 in Ausuka's leadership wagon that shifted the leadership towards Math.

Making the scumteam Tora, Nancy, Math FUCK

Spoiler:

New thoughts, since i forgot Math cant self vote because im a dummy, there's 3 possible scenarios

Scenario 1: Ausuka screwed up the voting
v
Scenario 1a: Mathblade is town, there's a 50/50 scum between Tora and Nancy
Scenario 1b: Mathblade is scum, both Tora and Nancy are scum.

Scenario 2: Ausuka didnt screw up the voting
Math is town 100%, Tora and Nancy are both scum 100%

Spoiler:

how the FUCK has Nancy not submitted a healing touch on me yet if she's town.

Spoiler:

Sigh, sorry, i just....
If I literally lost the game for town I wont be able to live it down.
I have a feeling this is going to turn just like Midscummer's Night Dream.
I'm really bad at using abilities or being in a leadership role.

That's why I didnt want to (even tho deep down i actually did).
This is gonna take a big toll on my self steem.
I just...
I think im gonna quit mafia again, maybe permanently this time.
I'm tired of screwing everything up.
It's always my fault.

Spoiler:

Ok so yeah
Tora is scum, Nancy is ALSO scum, Math is town, Nero is town, Drixx is town, Theta is town, Kokichi is unknown, Creature is town.

ughhhhhhhhhhhh

I dun goofed, i literally gave power to TWO scum

Spoiler:

Well I guess people are doing a good job at scumhunting across the Nero voters.
At least I wont feel bad that my plan did actually work.

Guess there's not much for me to do so if i revive i might just blow someone up to thin the Nero voters PoE

Spoiler:

More internal thoughts
In any case I 100% do not believe Gamma voted Nero
So Gamma is scum along with Nancy and Tora
Nancy being so insistent in not healing me points to her being scum, idc if she unpetrifies me now, if she does, im blowing her up.
She took too long.

Spoiler:

At this point the only reason i see Nancy ever healing me is to avoid being lynched/killed.
She's NOT town, she's dying

Spoiler:

More internal thoughts.

Math's precog implied that HT would be available tonight. But it isnt, assuming that scum had the same information Math had why use petrify.

Spoiler:

Math is fucking scum, no one scumreads me here, this is never my scumgame, math doesnt want me to blow up Nancy

Spoiler:

I voted for Nero, Kokichi is the extra power, I tried to bomb Nos but the petrify roleblocked me, mod told me petrification didnt affect my vote

Spoiler:

If you opened this far I probably already submitted a ss bomb detonation, sorry if wrong, although im already used to being wrong.
Hopefully this will give more insight into what happened last night and fuel your scumhunting, if im wrong sorry Nancy, if you had healed me earlier i would have
probably thought you're town. The fact that you got pressured into healing me means you're probably scum who wanted to get away with it, besides, for math to be leader
literally both you and tora have to be scum.

@Town: If this flips town lynch the fuck out of Tora/Math, best guess for 3rd is Gamma. If Nancy flips scum and so does Tora, Math is conf town. If Tora doesnt then just lynch Math

amazing thought dump btw

10/10

nice shot

[Toranaga]

toranaga needs to be resolved

figure out your leader votes and lynch me

lynch mathblade tomorrow

gamma is scum btw because I'm town and both me and sakura voted for nero cain

if gamma had voted for nero cain, nero would be the leader

so me = town means gamma = scum

[Toranaga]

I should get lynched, yes

[Toranaga]

I had a POEing down possible petrifications that got me to thinking mathblade was really the only person on d3 who could have petrification, but then nancy drew was actually the only person on d5 who could have petrification

so it could've just been a nancy drew petrifying action

[Toranaga]

Spoiler:
Math is fucking scum, no one scumreads me here, this is never my scumgame, math doesnt want me to blow up Nancy

sheep this girl tomorrow

[Toranaga]

People think Tora is scum with Nancy? y1k3s

they're not reading the interactions. but it's fine. look, I'm -THE- lynch, right? we're doing this. and then you just auto on mathblade and gamma and win the game.

you're all town. it's just math and gamma

[Toranaga]

if we went onto tonight with a living nancy drew and a town lynch we'd lose the game right there

that's why scum rolled with mathblade leader thing

and yeah I realise the numbers don't add up cause gamma + nancy voting math = tie

but factional abilities can be a thing

math is 100% scum, guys. he really is. that's why he is leader. because scum wanted all the sui bombs to destroy us.

[Toranaga]

sakura is my favorite people

[Toranaga]

scum gamma only outs himself there to get me lynched if he is not scum with me sando. that's the most logical answer, don't you think?

[Toranaga]

sorry for stanning the idea of nuking the townblock for so long btw bro. honestly though we had like 200+ pages of no consensus reads changing and an obviously fucked gamestate. it was kinda defeatist in hindsight from me.

nah you're great

I'm overly stressed this game and lashing out. I shouldn't care this much but I'm quite obsessive.

[Toranaga]

VOTE: gamma

[Toranaga]

join us on gamma emerald if you wanna lynch scum today

[Toranaga]

we should pick leaders

I think really anyone but me and mathblade is fine

[Toranaga]

how do you setup for mislynch a player that cannot be lynched?

[Toranaga]

how do you setup for mislynch a player that cannot be lynched?

Tomorrow Literally what's being suggested, lynching Math tomorrow.

and who else would we lynch today but the people that claimed voting nero?

you're hardcore not thinking this through

[Toranaga]

WOLFCHAT THAT NIGHT...

"hey guys let's get ourselves resolved by setting up mathblade to be mislynched after we're all flipped"

[Toranaga]

sando. if I flip town, who else is scum?

gamma + ?

[Toranaga]

why do you think gamma outed himself, sando?

would it make sense for him to do it in any spot where mathblade is town? or do you think they were just hardcore pushing for a mislynch?

also have you caught that brilliant moment where mathblade was arguing AGAINST healing sakura?

[Toranaga]

math argued against healing sakura, started shading her even, and then wanted me lynched over nancy drew in such a blatant manner it was cringe to see how little math cared about spewing nancy scum there.

he is doing these things cause he would totally nuke the game by giving all his scum mates sui bombs and power echoes and all that shit. if I get lynched here without a wolf flip the game was very over.

[Toranaga]

nos is likely spewed town by nancy btw

[Toranaga]

how do you setup for mislynch a player that cannot be lynched?

Tomorrow Literally what's being suggested, lynching Math tomorrow.

and who else would we lynch today but the people that claimed voting nero?

you're hardcore not thinking this through

You mean the no-lynch the flipped scum was pushing?

didn't you argue for no lynch though?

I didn't understand why you were doing that.

[Toranaga]

yeah the openingwolfing has been real as fuck and the whole ghost ninja super laser beam Illuminati scumteam setup he keeps talking about is transparently science fiction bullshit I refuse to believe he actually believes

cheers mate

[Toranaga]

you're an empowered duckling who finally found his voice

[Toranaga]

drixx, the answer is: I'm town

but you should just flip me

here is the thing though

tomorrow I will sui unprotected on mathblade. and then I die. promise you 100% that's how I'm gonna resolve my slot.

[Toranaga]

drixx, nothing is that easy, right? there's no way scum would just hand the game like that

mathblade got nancy drew outed by YOLO making himself leader. she played a great, very participative game and deserved better than to get mechanically outed by math.

if math isn't scum, what nancy drew is completely nonsensical. she just threw a great scum game for no fucking reason.

you're just... I mean it's so obvious math is scum. you just work through weird logical waves to get there and I have no patience interacting with it. I will flip town and then you will resolve math so it's fine.

[Toranaga]

So here's an interesting thought:

Nero was definitely voted for by: Ausuka, Sakura

That means it took 3 votes to make math leader. We now know Nancy was one of those votes. So let's look at the assigned + claimed Nero voter group again:

{

Ausuka

,

Sakura

,

Nancy

, Toranaga, Gamma Emerald}

Tell me why the answer isn't Tora + Gamma again?

It's either both of them or Aus didn't vote and it's 1 of them.

Wait, no, it has to be both of them? Since if one is telling the truth, then that's 2 guaranteed votes on Nero that can't be overcome?

yup

there's fuckery going on here unless ausuka didn't vote AND math was unexplicably pile voted by scum who all outed themselves today

you will know when I flip :shrug:

[Toranaga]

I think if you kinda keep asking yourself "why would an intelligent scumteam who was winning do that" you'll reach your conclusion

one with mathblade makes sense

one without mathblade would just throw like that

mafia is never that easy anyway

[Toranaga]

I think if you kinda keep asking yourself "why would an intelligent scumteam who was winning do that" you'll reach your conclusion

but the scum wasn't winning?

nancy was definitely winning

[Toranaga]

lynching gamma today ensures that, if I'm town, I can literally vig myself and don't need to be resolved

I can't go off tonight but I will tomorrow

gamma has as much scum equity as I do given the nero voting pool, and has nothing to give town tomorrow. I can just explode though. meaning town benefits from keeping possible!town tor alive than when you do the same thing with gamma

also, I used my action already, so gamma is preferable

tomorrow I blow myself up and free another lynch for us

[Toranaga]

drixx, nothing is that easy, right? there's no way scum would just hand the game like that

Put Math in leadership, set him up for D7 lynch.
Get a no-lynch today so "we can bomb Math tonight".
Petrify Math N6.
Lynch Math D7.
Scum wins.

that's stupid though

it doesn't matter anyway. I'm resolving myself tomorrow and can't act tonight, so when me and gamma both have the same scum equity, you lynch gamma 100%

[Toranaga]

lynching gamma today ensures that, if I'm town, I can literally vig myself and don't need to be resolved

You had your chance today, you blew up the town who suggested you blow up Nancy...

Yeah no.

but you also said I shouldn't blow up nancy cause that would be useless, didn't you sando?

should I quote your post and shame you for flipping on me now? how dare you say this to me lol

I wanted nancy alive because I wanted nancy to heal sakura, who I was townreading. I was not townreading nancy and thought both nancy and theta were scum. I shot theta, she flipped town, oh well. but don't @ me with that crap mate, come on now. you wanted this.

[Toranaga]

Promise last post before I sleep, I'm actually posting this from bed.

Tora should not bomb Nancy, it's a waste, bomb someone else and the townflip confscums Nancy.

[Toranaga]

wait a fucking second

wasn't sando suggesting I bombed sakura?

[Toranaga]

"Rationally speaking, it's really hard to even run with the premise that you're town right now. The evidence is pretty heavily stacked against you. It takes the moderator lying to us about how leader is determined OR a lot of low probability things all happening to clear you."

you don't know what scum factional has

anyway I'm not even arguing that I'm town. I'm arguing for letting me explode tomorrow.

[Toranaga]

but Gamma, if scum, has no powers. Even if Gamma was scum, there's still a third scum out there. I think flipping you today so you can't explode and kill town makes more sense than flipping prob scum Gamma.

you're wrong because titus was leader d2 and passed powers to a scum mate who wasn't nancy. so yes gamma can have powers, and that's not taking in consideration that obvscum!mathblade has been leader twice now.

[Toranaga]

So we have to lynch the scum most likely to have petrification and imho that is Toranaga. He likely isn’t going to blow himself up. My suspicion is he can’t and if the two Tor is the threat. Because when scum made me leader they probably didn’t count on Tor having to call his bluff.

I mean if he outright refuses then sure, let's lynch Tor. But there's literally no cost to town at least asking.

I think it's not Gamma, since the claim of voting Nero really fucks with you being leader for scum. It's that claim that conf!towns you.

So we get Tor to blow up Sakura. That will only happen if Tor is town, or Sakura is town and Tor has protection as scum. They can't protect both, and he can't claim negation.

So if he doesn't do it, we lynch him and move on.

[Toranaga]

so you wanted me to blow sakura and you're now calling me scum for not blowing up nancy, who you said made no sense if I blew up

@sando

how are you making any sense right now?

[Toranaga]

why would I blow sakura instead of nancy and how does it make any sense for you to even suggest something like that sando?

[Toranaga]

@everyone: sando said I should either blow sakura up or get lynched if I failed to do so, while suggesting I shouldn't blow nancy up, and is now using the fact that I killed town as a reason to get me lynched.

just notice the scummy shit happening here.

[Toranaga]

not giving me the chance means lynching me, sando

you tried to bully me into detonating obvtown or get lynched for it. that's scummy. you're now trying to get me lynched, and since I know I'm town, I'm gonna say that's also scummy.

half of you can't mafia it's amazing. I hope sando is a wolf, guys.

[Toranaga]

the question you'll ask yourselves after me/math/gamma are all dead is if sando is town

go back to these pages. the flips will be telling. sando is scumsiding heavily right now and I'm not completely sure what it means.

kill me/math/gamma

if you wanna lynch me today that's fine, I'm sure nero will appreciate having me flipped so he gets to stop that bad tunnel and moves to a different bad tunnel

[Toranaga]

do we know for sure it's only 5 wolves?

cause gamma, math and sando are all wolves

that'd be 6 though

[Toranaga]

I will get lynched today but I will fight to get scum outed while mislynching me

sando already looks insanely horrible

[Toranaga]

don't allow sando to have anything

don't coordinate with sando. I think the worst, or drixx, should plan out the leader votes

[Toranaga]

lynch mathblade tomorrow please

don't lynch gamma

this is my fucking last will. flip mathblade before you flip gamma. they're both scum but math doesn't get lynched, right? he wordbombs and gets away with horribly wolfy stuff he does.

[Toranaga]

kill pool after I die is gamma/sando/mathblade

I find it highly unlikely that anyone outside of them is scum

btw do we "know" it's 5 wolves total or are we just guessing it? cause I'm looking at the gamestate and I find it virtually impossible for sando, math and gamma to have any town between them

[Toranaga]

2. This game is comprised of an 18 player Aspiring Hero Faction and a 5 player Aspiring Villain faction.

okokokok

[Toranaga]

sando you're wolfsiding. why?

[Toranaga]

sando will you believe math is scum if I flip green?

[Toranaga]

yeah toog is definitly not obvious town and his read on me makes absolutely no sense what so ever

what motive does he have as scum to announce a gut scumread on you after self voting? I'm troubled that you're not seeing past the scumread.

he wants to appear solving and doing things. He is failing to back up his read or to even start discussing it in directly unshady manner and he just dodges the attention by saying "o you saw how fa reacted?" and stuff like that. if he truely wanted to solve the game he would start isoing titus or something or he would iso me if he was so concerned. what he said there was 100% surface level pure garbage

All of his reads are associative. I think his dying senseless push on you reads kind’ve manipulative to me. Maybe he was hoping to make you the counterwagon? Irrespective of alignment, it’s really scummy play on his part.

"irrespective of alignment, it's really scummy play", say what again?

and how is toogeloo ever managing to get FA as a counterwagon? nobody even scumreads her, yes?

I'm misclearing nancy ain't I

do the guy a favour and lynch him, then

but if it flips green, I want you folks to read nancy's ISO. it doesn't look great to me.

and this here just felt a lot like TMI that toogeloo is town. both the "scummy irrespective of alignment" and "anti-town" comments are suggesting to me that nancy knows or thinks that toogeloo is town.

if toogeloo is town lynch creature, kokichi uma and nancy drew

none of what you say is an answer to why I think you might be TMI slipping toogeloo!town here and need to die if he is indeed town, nancy

I'll just ignore your response cause it's too much strawmanning me. anyone can ignore and disagree with everything I do and say and that doesn't make them scum, of course. I never scumread you for disagreeing.

also have you read toogeloo yourself or are you just going to coast and comment on the work other people are making?

this is me pushing nancy drew really hard at some point in d3 after scumreading how she was treating toogeloo and suggesting she was TMI reading him town and should be looked at if toogeloo does indeed flip town.

I'm not gonna lie that I actually scumread nancy cause I didn't for the most part. I had many moments of doubt while ultimately townreading her and being pocketed by her. but I had so many non w/w interactions with nancy, for whoever wants to read into it and lynch correctly today.

so.

[Toranaga]

lynch me before

nancy has to come up with even more excuses for not unpetrifying sakura btw

Nancy had like a bunch of powers so Tor wants to sacrifice himself to keep her alive?

yes you caught me buddy

[Toranaga]

how can I possibly win as scum when nero cain is playing?

[Toranaga]

if he is a wolf his play isn't anti town, yes? he is only being anti-town if he is town. and you just said "scummy", which literally means indicative of scum, and not anti-town. and yes both are nonsensical stances to have so I don't agree with them.

You are completely misconstruing what I said.

I'm not

@FA: are you reading my interaction with nancy here?

You definitely are and it’s pissing me off. I know exactly what I meant and I also know you’re twisting it - probably mistakenly because you’re 100% misunderstanding what I wrote. What burns me is you’re taking the stance that my read could not possibly be wrong but has to be defacto scummy. But Toog, it’s the complete opposite of that. Why the inconsistency?

my biggest problem is that I have a horrible tendency of reading emotions and I sometimes confuse genuine emotions with townyness

the things nancy did to me this game are very pockety. you can see the way she was behaving to and around me were very uncharacteristic of w/w interactions

[Toranaga]

maybe not try to frame Math?

I'm having fun with you little fella

[Toranaga]

but I was, sando. brian was sleeping. I sent and unsent that action like 6 times, I was very unsure what to do there.

[Toranaga]

it's a timezone thing that allowed me to holster...

[Toranaga]

and why would I fake it as scum? lolsando

anyway gngn

[Toranaga]

Brian sleeps? huh

that's the hole in my pleading innocent rn

damn brian never sleeps

[Toranaga]

"nancy convincing us of no lynch" lel if scum believed that'd be a thing

you know my original plan was pretty great, we'd have so many kills today, and then nancy tried her hardest to mess with it and we came up with sub par agreeable stuff

sucks to suck I guess

[Toranaga]

if the rest of you win

it will be cheer luck

gl wolves

[Toranaga]

VOTE: toranaga

nero cain you're the best. you caught me so hard bro. how are you so good at the town alignment????

[Toranaga]

[Toranaga]

I should also honor drixx, who figured out the wolves malicious plan involved all of them voting for town!mathblade and then outing themselves one after the other ITT

IT WAS A PERFECT PLAN GUYS, how could it fail???

[Toranaga]

but really with geniuses like drixx and nero, how can wolves ever ever win anything? I call bullshit on it

[Toranaga]

my red flip clears mathblade btw

NEVER KILL MATHBLADE HE IS SO TOWN OMG

[Toranaga]

/end lolcatting

who wants to hammer scum!tora?

a unique opportunity I think

[Toranaga]

Drixx/Nero obvious leaders tonight.

Drixx/Nero/Sando/Creature/Kokichi for powers? We need to leash Math imo still.

With 1 scum alive I think they can still petrify+kill potentially?

Drixx voters - Sando, Nero, Math, Creature, Gamma
Nero voters - Drixx, Kokichi, the worst, Nos

Drixx and Nero should both take goo and use it I think, no-one else does anything.

I agree to powers list

I plan on SS suicide bombing whoever of Tor/Gamma isn’t lynched since that should be gg
I plan to vote Drixx

Can I go to bed now?

Excuse me, why are you considering bombing me?

Simple math. Nancy flipped red. So this is what we have to work with:

Math would lose any tie with Nero due to the rules. Math was on the mislynch and nero was not, so that's the first tiebreaker and Nero would be leader if the votes were equal.

People assigned plus claiming to vote for Nero are: {

Ausuka

,

Sakura

,

Nancy

, Toranaga, Gamma}

Sakura confirmed voting for Nero.

If Ausuka voted for Nero, then it's literally not possible that two of {

Nancy

, Toranaga, Gamma} did. Even if ONE of those voted for Nero, that would mean 3 votes. How could Math get 4 votes? There were only 3 scum.

So basically Ausuka had to have forgotten to vote for to actually have voted Nero, Gamma. I think Toranaga is always scum here and he already made a surrender post complaining that Nancy persuaded the team to go with a subpar plan so he eats rope. You get blown up because you put yourself into that PoE and we have no way to clear you.

Make sense?

will you declare the game mathematically impossible then, when I flip green?

[Toranaga]

I should have not tried to change the way the game was going, you know? just let mathblade have a galore of suicide bombing and end the game yesterday.

but silly toranaga playing for his wincon had to spend hours here shouting at tone deaf galore of villagers so they can not shoot themselves in the foot.

but then sakura died, and ausuka died, and now the only player acting within reason in the game is the worst.

I told sakura... yesterday. if we didn't lynch mathblade that gameday, we'd never lynch him. and there we are. you will never lynch him. and I will laugh so hard at all of you. cause mathblade deserves to beat you. you don't deserve to win anything the way you're playing. you're lynching the one guy that saved your ass.

[Toranaga]

*but toranaga you idiot, it's mathematically impossible for mathblade to be scum!*

yeah here is the thing. you don't know the setup cause you don't know what scum has. just keep this in mind while you lose an obvious game.

someone please hammer me

[Toranaga]

if you submitted it, then he did, scum

[Toranaga]

Can we please make sure the mod receives my power list before hammering?

how funny is this, math, that town is killing the person that took the victory out of your hands in the first place?

can you guys even win now that nancy died? lol. no, right? it's totally over isn't it.

[Toranaga]

I did I just like confirmation

And furthermore your argument of “I don’t know what scum has” makes literally anyone scum to you yet you tunnel me for all eternity

Your red flip will be sweet AF

o is that right mr G L O B A L R O L E B L O C K?

that coming from you is rich, you know

[Toranaga]

"but toranaga what about the GLOBAL ROLEBLOCK?" he says

and then now... "oh you're just using hidden scum powers to tunnel"



:hatthinking:

:thonkirby:

[Toranaga]

WHY ARE WE DISCUSSING VIG ABILITIES

Vig = Suicide Bomber + heal/immunity

@Toranaga yes it is!
Because we don’t fucking know what factionals scum have.

I could easily see scum getting some kind of mass or global roleblock or denial of power activation or 1 shot BP or mod knows what.

I can’t ask the question I gave. The power was revealed to me yesterday.

I was absolutely stupid to think the bombing plan would work in the first place I admit that.
But mainly I don’t trust Tor right now.

The fact there is no resistance to it and was to the bombing plan including other players besides Tor.
Like something feels wrong and I can’t put my finger on it.
And since I can’t I am opposed.

[Toranaga]

wait did he suggest global roleblock and then "I don't trust tor right now"?

did he do what he then accused me of doing???

[Toranaga]

you guys saw mathblade was using the "come to the dark side, we have cookies" avatar, right?

HE THOUGHT HE WAS OUTED. and then drixx happened LOL.

[Toranaga]

[Toranaga]

ah fuck it's sando's avatar

whatever doesn't matter

[Toranaga]

anything to say about your obvious hypocrisy though? no right?

[Toranaga]

I'll either get ignored or math will do his regular wordbomb.txt of scumsplaining

[Toranaga]

"The fact there is no resistance to it and was to the bombing plan including other players besides Tor.
Like something feels wrong and I can’t put my finger on it.
And since I can’t I am opposed."

that's such openwolfing I can't even btw

[Toranaga]

math, pro tip: kill the worst. he is the only one who is seeing through you rn.

[Toranaga]

oh NOW precog being incorrect is meaningful lol

sure

I'm flipping town obviously

[Toranaga]

you don't even read the game drixx

I made that plan where the towncore would get sui bombs

nancy was ITT arguing against it

this didn't happen in our WOLFCHAT. at the very least stop wanting to be right. you're wrong and I'm dead, it's fine.

[Toranaga]

I'm happy to be resolved, sure

but you could have at least try to wolfhunt instead of clear math for bullshit.

you could just read relevant parts of our ISOs or read nancy for spew. you didn't. you're hanging onto something I KNOW is false to lynch me. and you are the main reason this is happening. we could have wagoned gamma and maybe flip scum today. we aren't doing it cause of you and your faulty ass logic and your lack of wolfhunting skills

[Toranaga]

like you live in such a dream land, that you think wolves would all vote math instead of nero. the only wolf that did this was nancy. me, ausuka and sakura are town, and you and sando wanted to nuke the entire pool of players regardless of how they played or how little it makes sense. it's bad. also, it's very clear gamma and I cannot both be scum but you're with your head so down mechanics you don't even fully know about that you can't see it.

[Toranaga]

if you understood the context, you'd understand my posts.

[Toranaga]

you just said I have to die, no? that's the right thing to do. so me self voting is doing the right thing, isn't it?

[Toranaga]

power echo doesn't go off by day btw. I can't use anything tonight and I can't be echoed tomorrow but you know your mechanics drixx.

[Toranaga]

I'll literally just suicide on mathblade and have him lose protection if I live

that's the only thing I'm doing tomorrow and then I get to read mathblade come up with a million excuses why he is not using his own sui

[Toranaga]

you missed the part where I'm much more useful for town when I'm town, cause you don't even want to consider that possibility

and I'm bleeding town for ages now. I'm such an easy read. you're incompetent, drixx. sorry.

[Toranaga]

so there you go

"scum wouldn't do that" is a worthless argument to you

therefore the reasoning being, gamma would only out himself to frame me doesn't work in your brain

we've been there before

[Toranaga]

I'm not town for emotional posting, drixx

I'm town because I did not stop scumhunting throughout the game, I have had impossible interactions with wolf!titus and wolf!nancy that spew me town in many ways. because I saved your ass to stop mathblade's plan. I'm not even appealing to emotion. I was emotional yesterday and I wanted everyone to go blow themselves because you're shooting your own foot again. I'm not appealing to anything. I'm telling you you're bad at mafia if you don't see past incomplete mechanical knowledge. that's just bad playing on your part and you're hard pushing for my lynch because of it. I know your mechanical speculation is wrong, drixx. and you will know that too when I flip.

[Toranaga]

drixx

you're saying I'm only town if ausuka forgot her vote or the game is bastard, both are things I can't really argue in favour of cause I don't know why mathblade is leader.

you want me to show you mechanically that I'm town. I'm telling you I'm town because I brute forced a better plan than the *nuke everyone* plan that mathblade came up with and everyone but me and you agreed with that. if it wasn't for me, we'd have had 6+ dead town at night, not one.

BUT SCUM CAN BE PRO TOWN

so there's no arguing with you. you've hammered yourself into bad mechanics and now I'm dead so that's it.

[Toranaga]

Tora you seem to be missing the point I'm making. If you're town you can't argue me into believing that. You should be focused on what you claim makes you town: scum hunting.

Even if we suppose that Math is scum ... there's still one other out there. Who is that?

And while we're assuming for a moment you are town ... you being town doesn't make you right about Math. So ... you should also be assuming Math is town and giving your evaluation of that possible scenario.


If you are town here, you are literally just being spiteful and hoping the rest of us fuck up so you can insult us post game. That's not pro town man.

I'm POEing this down to either gamma or sando and have explained why pretty thoroughly.

gamma is literally on the same boat I am because for mathblade to be elected, that means one of us, or both of us, has lied. I'm assuming scum can at least redirect one of the leader votes to mathblade though, so there is a remote possibility that me/gamma/sakura voted nero, and then e.g. my vote went to mathblade because of scum ability, making it 3 v 2.

I think gamma is scum, though. I see his claim as a frame job, because with mathblade!scum going alive to the night, if they manage to maintain living wolves while killing the town that was in nero's voting pool, they have a pretty clear shot at winning the game. there's a lot of combo killing powers they can use tonight to win. of course, once nancy flipped, that plan already went downhill cause they can't kill too much town with only 2 living wolves. which is why you never saw gamma post anymore.

the other candidate would be sando, if for nothing else, because he wanted me to NOT shoot nancy and then tried to bully me into shooting sakura hana. if you bothered to check my posts this gameday, I started off scumreading nancy as associative with mathblade, and then proceeded to bug nancy to unpetrify sakura, which mathblade was against btw. as far as wolfreading sando for anything past this gameday, I'm really not. I think he has been villagery, but if there's town in mathblade or gamma, I'd say sando has a very good chance of being a wolf because of how hard he wolfsided this gameday.

and you will never clear me for wolfhunting cause I've done literally nothing else this entire game and yet you can't see me ever being town.

[Toranaga]

does petrification nullify phasing?

[Toranaga]

UNVOTE: toranaga

ok one last piece of trying to understand the mechanics here

also mathblade should post the precog list so you know he won't use a power tonight. if I'm scum, there's no need for him to do so and if I'm town, he is scum right? so force him to not use anything tonight.

[Toranaga]

if ausuka used SS's phasing, is there any power that can stop it and make their shot go through?

@drixx, I think you should be able to answer this

[Toranaga]

I see what happened.

scum has SS and used SS in combination with their night kill to kill ausuka

here:

If the factional kill is modified by Super Strength, would it bypass Impenetrable Skin modified by Super Strength?
Yes, because it is not a blocking or manipulative action.

SS makes any action unblockable and can't be manipulated. that means, since phasing is a redirect, SS goes through phasing, even if phasing is SS'ed itself.

so scum has SS.

[Toranaga]

SS was only available on n4. mathblade was leader on n4 and this is the list, with what people claimed to have gotten:

Mathblade (SS),
Sakura Hana (SS),
Frozen Angel (SS?),
Drixx (Doctor),
Nancy,
stungun

sakura and FA are dead town. drixx is mechanically confirmed to have taken doctor by nero+me+kokichi, given my sui didn't kill me (if you're paying attention you know why). so the only people left who could have taken SS and used for scum are mathblade and nancy.

I forgot what nancy claimed to have gotten, but it doesn't matter anyway cause she was very likely lying about it. there's something else though, it's about petrification that scum used on sakura hana:

petrification was available in d3. the list was Frozen Angel (Leader, Healing), Sakura Hana (Bulletproof), Mathblade (Petrification), Nancy (Healing), Drixx (Bulletproof), Shiro. I know drixx took bp cause I mimicked it. sakura, FA and shiro are all dead town. nancy says she got healing and we know she got healing cause she healed sakura. so from d3, only mathblade could have taken petrification.

the other day petrification was available was d5/n5. I took sui as proven by theta's death. kokichi did echo nero to me, nero probably used absortion and confirmed drixx, ausuka and sakura are dead town. the only person from d5 that could have taken petrification was nancy.

so the only two people that can have used petrification or SS for the scum team are mathblade and nancy drew.

nancy drew could have acted alone anyway: take SS on d4, take petrification on d5, use SS on n5 and petrify sakura while strongman killing ausuka.

the only way this wouldn't be the case is if scum can't use factional abilities and superpowers on different people. meaning, if scum can't visit two people the same night, that does point to mathblade being scum. I'm reading the rules and stuff again to see if I find anything.

[Toranaga]

"Nero didn't get elected b/c a unknown scum ability."

While that's clearly possible it makes sense to lynch from my supposed voters.

I agree with this if you understand my posting btw. I just didn't wanna go before wolf flipped cause that would defeat us. after nancy flipped I'll happily get lynched here. I'd like to lynch scum instead but I can't convince anybody that wants me dead that I'm town.

I'm trying to find that piece of mechanics that clears me but it's hard.

[Toranaga]

9. Unless otherwise specified, players may only use one Superpower per Night Phase. For Aspiring Villains, this is in addition to any factional abilities they may have (including their factional nightkill).
10. Factional Abilities for the Aspiring Villains are not treated as Superpowers.

two things here:

first of all, scum has factional abilities outside of the available superpowers. that's not a mod lie because mod never said the superpowers were the only abilities in the game.

second of all, it seems by the phrasing that nancy could have SS'ed both her night kill and sakura's petrify. so mathblade really didn't need to have acted at night for these things to have happened and could have been 100% nancy doing.

hitting a wall with this but at least I'm mapping out what abilities were used.

[Toranaga]

you can kill gamma as a day action tomorrow just fine, mathblade.

you should do it.

[Toranaga]

you can kill gamma as a day action tomorrow just fine, mathblade.

you should do it.

I am talking with Drixx not scum thank you very much.

yes but you can still kill gamma tomorrow. you're saying you can't, but that's false because your sui will count as next cycle's action, while precog will count as this cycle's action.

[Toranaga]

no one should use suicide bombing at night because scum can have power echo, yes? it's definitely not a good idea.

[Toranaga]

no one should use suicide bombing at night because scum can have power echo, yes? it's definitely not a good idea.

I imho should be using suicide bomber to remove conf scum and testing me.

If scum have and want to use power echo to confirm me as town we still have plenty of breathing room if they do.

We have eliminated one scum today that would have had negate or echo more than likely given when Nancy was given powers.

If you’re asking me not to shoot someone who imho is confirmed scum that requires a fuck ton of explanation

the explanation is as follows:

if I flip scum, there is only one scum left. meaning you will benefit from taking the slower approach anyway, cause there isn't much my scum partner can do individually to mess up with town.

if I flip town, and you use SUI at night, there are two wolves who can mess up with your ability use and block, redirect or duplicate it's effects on town. if we're both town and you use sui, it can have devastating consequences.

if I flip town and you used precog today, you can take sui and then flip both you and gamma, because if I flip town everybody will want you dead.

so considering all possibilities, you should use precog and take sui. cover your basis so that in a scenario where we're both town, we still have a good shot at winning cause you'll resolve both yourself and gamma emerald tomorrow. YOLOing on gamma tonight is ineffective because in the scenario where I'm town, there are two scum with powers to manipulate that action.

[Toranaga]

Furthermore assuming Tor flips red that is a second. Gamma would necessarily be the third.

If Tor somehow flips town which I find extremely unlikely we need to have that check of me to everyone.

So respectfully no I shouldn’t precog Drixx.

the check on you is by you voluntarily flipping yourself with gamma tomorrow. that's what sakura did today. that's the townplay.

[Toranaga]

If Tor somehow flips town which I find extremely unlikely we need to have that check of me to everyone.

If Tor flips town somehow then I can't see Gamma/Math not having at least one, possibly two scum in it. I'd rather you suicide bomb Gamma tomorrow w/o protection at that point I think.

there you go. that's why math should precog.

[Toranaga]

Furthermore assuming Tor flips red that is a second. Gamma would necessarily be the third.

If Tor somehow flips town which I find extremely unlikely we need to have that check of me to everyone.

So respectfully no I shouldn’t precog Drixx.

the check on you is by you voluntarily flipping yourself with gamma tomorrow. that's what sakura did today. that's the townplay.

No it fucking isn’t. I 100% know scum is between you two.

Therefore I kill you ASAP.

I understand you guys don’t know that but I do.

I am not precogging.

@drixx you understand this is confscum, right?

[Toranaga]

Redirector
EH
1-shot during each day vote swapper PM mod
HT
BP
Shapeshifting — Make your powers look like someone else. Doesn’t count toward power usage.

^^ The precog list

Hypnosis: Target another player. Any actions this player uses before the end of the next Day Phase will be redirected to another player of your choice instead.
Mind Control: Target another player. You may move their vote once before the end of the next Day Phase. You may change its position by PM'ing the Mod (me).
**Precognition: Learn the next set of Superpowers available for acquisition before they're revealed.
**Self-Detonation: Target another player. Both you and that player will die.
*Shapeshifting: Target another player. Any actions you take this Night Phase will appear as though that player performed them instead.
Weather Manipulation: Target another player. If that player takes Flight, that player dies.

it's a very small point against math but I should note that not only are half the actions wrong, but they're also not in the right order? and I think on d2 when math was confirming titus they had an order of superpowers that was then confirmed to be such. I'll search this to be sure.

my guess is that scum actually knows what powers are in the game, but doesn't know when they're getting released. math just pointed at powers that weren't used yet as what will be here next gameday and got lucky.

[Toranaga]

@Tor you realize I could have just agreed with Drixx’s stupid plan and made something up and then we lynched you anyway if I was scum right?

Stop saying because I don’t do idiotic things I am scum. It’s just false

you're lynching me anyway.

there are now 3 people agreeing you should take precog btw. I know you'll make up anything to get me lynched and the results will be off again, but I want to make it clear you are lying about your results.

[Toranaga]

if scum had the power to change the actions like that, we wouldn't even have precog in the first place.

and why would scum give us suicide bombing and elect town!math to get it? makes no sense, drixx.

[Toranaga]

@Math, The second power is Freezing.

What is the third?

@Math, The second power is Freezing.

What is the third?

I confirm this.

Third is impenetrable skin.

Didn’t expect him to get back to me so fast.

Titus used precog.

and so it follows:

**Healing Touch: Target another player. If that player has not been killed, any debilitating or harmful effects are removed.
Impenetrable Skin: You are protected from one killing action until the next Night Phase.
Petrification: Target another player. That player loses their ability to post, vote, and submit actions and no longer counts for parity.
Power Echo: Target another player. Any targeting Superpowers this player uses this Night Phase will be used on another player of your choice in addition to their original target.
Power Negation: Target another player. That player can neither use Superpowers nor be targeted by them until the next Night Phase.
*Shapeshifting: Target another player. Any actions you take this Night Phase will appear as though that player performed them instead.

2nd and 3rd powers are also the 2nd and 3rd powers from next gameday. meaning not only would the mod have to make a mistake on the list, but also the list would have to be out of order completely, but still have future powers there that town didn't know about in the first place.

this didn't happen. mathblade lied about precog yesterday and only got 2 new powers right because scum probably has a list of all the powers that will be in the game in the first place.

[Toranaga]

if scum had the power to change the actions like that, we wouldn't even have precog in the first place.

and why would scum give us suicide bombing and elect town!math to get it? makes no sense, drixx.

What about the difference in powers between what Math posted and what's available makes it worthwhile for Math to blatantly lie about the powers?

my theory is that mathblade never took precog last gameday, and wolves just know all the powers that are available in the game, without knowing what gamedays they will be available in. that's why from the 6 powers math said, 3 of them were just not there and 2 of them are brand new powers. he knew what powers were left in the game and just claimed those cause they'd likely be the d6 powers, and then got 1 out of 4 for the other powers.

it's definitely not a mod mistake. it's a lie.

[Toranaga]

if scum had the power to change the actions like that, we wouldn't even have precog in the first place.

and why would scum give us suicide bombing and elect town!math to get it? makes no sense, drixx.

What about the difference in powers between what Math posted and what's available makes it worthwhile for Math to blatantly lie about the powers?

my theory is that mathblade never took precog last gameday, and wolves just know all the powers that are available in the game, without knowing what gamedays they will be available in. that's why from the 6 powers math said, 3 of them were just not there and 2 of them are brand new powers. he knew what powers were left in the game and just claimed those cause they'd likely be the d6 powers, and then got 1 out of 4 for the other powers.

it's definitely not a mod mistake. it's a lie.

Math precog'd D4 correctly didn't he? That was post Titus flip, so he had the list and had to correctly guess it there?

my theory isn't that math never took precog. my theory is that math didn't use precog last gameday.

the theories explaining how math used precog last gameday and got the wrong list are:

a) mod error

b) scum has an ability to change the available powers next gameday.

I could go on about how mod error is an extremely unlikely scenario that should never be considered because there is absolutely no evidence pointing to mod error. In a game that had 0 mod errors that we know of, and is gorgeously set up by a mod that's clearly paying attention to everything we're doing, has quite a large Q&A section and is updating votecounts quite frequently, you can't assume anything is a mod error, especially when it's information that a player you don't know the alignment of, is providing to you. that "mod error" talk is awful and not a conversation that's even supposed to take place when we're talking about mechanics and claims we don't fully comprehend.

the other suggestion is that scum can change the available powers. but if scum really did change the available powers, and math is still town, the scenario is one where scum changed one power to self detonation, for instance, and then implicated themselves by making mathblade leader. if you think me, nancy and gamma are all scum and mathblade is town, we made mathblade unlynchable and then gave him the power to get sui himself, and give other towns possible sui's, while they're all possibly protected and all scum is the POE. it's just very unreasonable.

there have been many talks about occam's razor this game. there is one right here: either scum has a hidden power that makes precog absolutely useless, and used it in the most bizarrely anti-scum way possible, in a convoluted play to frame a player that was probably dying today if scum didn't make him leader. OR mathblade is scum lying about precog.

[Toranaga]

Why are we not getting a full power claim by the way? In what world is it best to keep that shit quiet? Town have been "doing what's best for us" all game, they've been fucking wrong every time.

One way or the other, we got an unexplainable outcome today, hiding powers is just anti-town at this point.

I'll start - I aint got shit, just the way I like it.

I'm pretty sure everybody claimed everything by now...

[Toranaga]

Corrected, thanks Nancy

D1/N1: Bulletproof, Siren, Enhanced Hearing, Medium, Phasing, Mimicry | Frozen Angel (Leader, Phasing),

Cerberus

(Mimicry),

Shiro

(Medium), Nancy, Toranaga (Mimicry),

Ankamius

Spoiler: D1 Descriptions

Enhanced Hearing:

Target another player. You will learn if any actions were performed on that player during the current Night Phase.

Impenetrable Skin:

You are protected from one killing action until the next Night Phase.

Phasing:

Target another player. Any actions that target you before the next Night Phase will target them instead.

Power Mimicry:

Target another player. You will gain one use of any Superpowers they use before the end of next Day Phase. These 1-Shot Superpowers will be available to you until the end of the next Night Phase and still count against your Superpower usage.

Siren's Call:

Target another player. That player's actions will be redirected to target you instead of their original target until the next Night Phase.

Spiritual Mediumship:

Target a player that has died within the previous Day or Night Phase. You will have a neighborhood with that player for the following Day and Night Phase.

D2/N2: Double Vote, Enhanced Hearing, Bulletproof, Power Negation, Precog, Weather Manipulation |

Titus

(Leader, Precog?), Mathblade (Precog),

Ankamius

, Nancy, Frozen Angel (Power Negate),

Shiro

Spoiler: D2 descriptions

Duplication:

Gain a second vote until the end of the next Day Phase. This second vote doesn't count for parity.

Enhanced Hearing:

Target another player. You will learn if any actions were performed on that player during the current Night Phase.

Impenetrable Skin:

You are protected from one killing action until the next Night Phase.

Power Negation:

Target another player. That player can neither use Superpowers nor be targeted by them until the next Night Phase.

**Precognition:

Learn the next set of Superpowers available for acquisition before they're revealed.

Weather Manipulation:

Target another player. If that player takes Flight, that player dies.

D3/N3: Healing, Bulletproof, Petrification, Power Echo, Power Negation, Shapeshifting | Frozen Angel (Leader, Healing), Sakura Hana (Bulletproof), Mathblade (Petrification), Nancy (Healing), Drixx (Bulletproof),

Shiro

Spoiler: D3 Descriptions

**Healing Touch

: Target another player. If that player has not been killed, any debilitating or harmful effects are removed.

Impenetrable Skin:

You are protected from one killing action until the next Night Phase.

Petrification:

Target another player. That player loses their ability to post, vote, and submit actions and no longer counts for parity.

Power Echo:

Target another player. Any targeting Superpowers this player uses this Night Phase will be used on another player of your choice in addition to their original target.

Power Negation:

Target another player. That player can neither use Superpowers nor be targeted by them until the next Night Phase.

*Shapeshifting:

Target another player. Any actions you take this Night Phase will appear as though that player performed them instead.

D4/N4: Doctor, Roleblock, Bulletproof, Power Echo, Siren's Call, SS | Mathblade (Leader), Sakura Hana (SS), Frozen Angel (SS?), Drixx (Doctor), Nancy,

Stungun

Spoiler: D4 Descriptions

Force Field Generation:

Target another player. That player is protected from one killing action until the next Night Phase.

Freezing:

Target another player. That player cannot use any abilities until the next Night Phase.

Impenetrable Skin:

You are protected from one killing action until the next Night Phase.

Power Echo:

Target another player. Any targeting Superpowers this player uses this Night Phase will be used on another player of your choice in addition to their original target.

Siren's Call:

Target another player. That player's action(s) will be redirected to target you instead of their original target(s) until the next Night Phase.

*Super Strength:

Any actions you take this Night Phase cannot be blocked or manipulated.

------
D5/N5: Self-Watcher, Petrification, Power Absorb, Power Echo, Suicide Bomb, Tracker | Sakura Hana (Leader), Nero, Frozen Angel, Bomber 1, Bomber 2, Bomber 3.

Spoiler: D5 Descriptions

Goo Generation:

Until the next Night Phase, anyone that successfully targets you will be covered in goo of a single color of your choice.

Petrification:

Target another player. That player loses their ability to post, vote, and submit actions and no longer counts for parity.

Power Absorption:

You acquire any Superpowers that successfully target you.

Power Echo:

Target another player. Any targeting Superpowers this player uses this Night Phase will be used on another player of your choice in addition to their original target.

**Self-Detonation:

Target another player. Both you and that player will die.

Superhuman Tracking:

Target another player. You will know who that player targets this Night Phase.

*: Does not count against your super power count
**: Can be used during the day but also counts towards your power count that night.

here, sando...

[Toranaga]

ausuka or whoever it was actually
point is MY VOTE CHANGES THINGS

noting that gamma emerald actually retracted that he voted nero

[Toranaga]

So we don't know:
Mathblade N4 power?
3 of the N5s, although I think Kokichi echo is confirmed?

mathblade claimed SS

kokichi echo is confirmed. my sui is confirmed. nero cain's absortion is not confirmed but he claimed to have received drixx' doc ability before drixx confirmed. he is also towny and the shift to mathblade probably doesn't ever happen if nero is scum.

the only ability we don't know of is nancy. for math to be town, nancy has to have taken petrification and used it that night, because only nancy and math could have petrification.

[Toranaga]

yes SS was to n4

math was gladly not in the hero list last night, no.

we have the claimed powers pretty much. me/kokichi/nero are an awesome little combo of confirming each other's powers.

[Toranaga]

drixx, have you read my piece about math's precog results last page?

[Toranaga]

because I'm town, I already know there is a factional ability changing leader votes because mathblade cannot be leader otherwise.

random guess that this ability is one that changes a single leader vote.

since the pool of 4 that'd vote nero contains one scum that voted math, that makes it a 3-3 even if mathblade is town, and he'd lose the tie. so a factional ability made mathblade leader, and the only scenario that didn't happen is if math is town and ausuka forgot to send her vote, which is highly unlikely. if math is scum, that'd be a 3-2 for nero, but then one of nero's votes would be targeted to math, making it 3-2 math.

[Toranaga]

couldn't scum Nancy + scum Gamma + town Tora + nonvoting Ausuka = leader Math?

if ausuka forgot to vote AND math is town, then this scenario is possible without a factional ability. I don't think ausuka forgot to vote because she had actions to send and we were counting on her for leadership, though. so I'm not really considering the possibility that she forgot.

[Toranaga]

the problem is that you'd have town!math being voted by 3 scum that wouldn't elect him because nero would still have 3 votes on him. not only is trying to leadership town!mathblade nonsensical, but in this case it would be unlikely to even make him leader. this scenario is simply unlikely enough that I wanna discard it completely. it takes pure nonsense from wolf team, combined with a town player forgetting to send her vote along with her NA.

I should note that the mod prodges people about voting etc. and sakura was active in the site, I checked. she almost certainly sent her vote along with her actions.

[Toranaga]

for math to be town, scum has to coordinate to make him leader while also changing next day abilities to make his precog result fail, which is already damning in itself enough that math was already getting resolved. also, since I'm town, scum would let me sui on mathblade instead of making him unkillable.

the math!scum scenario is easy, though: math lied about precog results which is why they're wrong, and knowing he was going down, he used a vote changing factional ability to make himself leader so he wouldn't die and would control the night actions. that's the only sensible answer to the things that happened in the game and literally the only thing that explains how nancy drew went from locktown to outed.

[Toranaga]

what's more likely? a leader vote changing ability, or a next-day-ability-changing ability that makes precognition useless?

[Toranaga]

something else to consider:

current lynch/kill pool is me/gamma/mathblade, right?

if gamma flips scum, both me or mathblade can still be scum. in fact, me and mathblade are the literal two most likely scum partners for gamma.

if either me or mathblade flips scum, the other is clear.

which means it's either me and gamma, or math and gamma.

which means it's always gamma and someone else the way we're all reading the game.

so we should just lynch gamma now.

[Toranaga]

VOTE: gamma emerald

[Toranaga]

Thought Dump

Spoiler:

Not sure why scum would become so apparent by using petrify.
I dont understand what game they are playing.
This could be the last chance to lynch scum.

Spoiler:

Nero would've won a tie, so there were 2 scum in Nero's leadership wagon and 1 in Ausuka's leadership wagon that shifted the leadership towards Math.

Making the scumteam Tora, Nancy, Math FUCK

Spoiler:

New thoughts, since i forgot Math cant self vote because im a dummy, there's 3 possible scenarios

Scenario 1: Ausuka screwed up the voting
v
Scenario 1a: Mathblade is town, there's a 50/50 scum between Tora and Nancy
Scenario 1b: Mathblade is scum, both Tora and Nancy are scum.

Scenario 2: Ausuka didnt screw up the voting
Math is town 100%, Tora and Nancy are both scum 100%

Spoiler:

how the FUCK has Nancy not submitted a healing touch on me yet if she's town.

Spoiler:

Sigh, sorry, i just....
If I literally lost the game for town I wont be able to live it down.
I have a feeling this is going to turn just like Midscummer's Night Dream.
I'm really bad at using abilities or being in a leadership role.

That's why I didnt want to (even tho deep down i actually did).
This is gonna take a big toll on my self steem.
I just...
I think im gonna quit mafia again, maybe permanently this time.
I'm tired of screwing everything up.
It's always my fault.

Spoiler:

Ok so yeah
Tora is scum, Nancy is ALSO scum, Math is town, Nero is town, Drixx is town, Theta is town, Kokichi is unknown, Creature is town.

ughhhhhhhhhhhh

I dun goofed, i literally gave power to TWO scum

Spoiler:

Well I guess people are doing a good job at scumhunting across the Nero voters.
At least I wont feel bad that my plan did actually work.

Guess there's not much for me to do so if i revive i might just blow someone up to thin the Nero voters PoE

Spoiler:

More internal thoughts
In any case I 100% do not believe Gamma voted Nero
So Gamma is scum along with Nancy and Tora
Nancy being so insistent in not healing me points to her being scum, idc if she unpetrifies me now, if she does, im blowing her up.
She took too long.

Spoiler:

At this point the only reason i see Nancy ever healing me is to avoid being lynched/killed.
She's NOT town, she's dying

Spoiler:

More internal thoughts.

Math's precog implied that HT would be available tonight. But it isnt, assuming that scum had the same information Math had why use petrify.

Spoiler:

Math is fucking scum, no one scumreads me here, this is never my scumgame, math doesnt want me to blow up Nancy

Spoiler:

I voted for Nero, Kokichi is the extra power, I tried to bomb Nos but the petrify roleblocked me, mod told me petrification didnt affect my vote

Spoiler:

If you opened this far I probably already submitted a ss bomb detonation, sorry if wrong, although im already used to being wrong.
Hopefully this will give more insight into what happened last night and fuel your scumhunting, if im wrong sorry Nancy, if you had healed me earlier i would have
probably thought you're town. The fact that you got pressured into healing me means you're probably scum who wanted to get away with it, besides, for math to be leader
literally both you and tora have to be scum.

@Town: If this flips town lynch the fuck out of Tora/Math, best guess for 3rd is Gamma. If Nancy flips scum and so does Tora, Math is conf town. If Tora doesnt then just lynch Math

[Toranaga]

current lynch/kill pool is me/gamma/mathblade, right?

if gamma flips scum, both me or mathblade can still be scum. in fact, me and mathblade are the literal two most likely scum partners for gamma.

if either me or mathblade flips scum, the other is clear

Like this logic is 100% applicable to Tora, swap Tora and Gamma in this and it makes the EXACT SAME amount of sense. It's just floundering plans for the sake of it now, in a desperate attempt to stay alive until tomorrow.

Also no, it's still more likely to be a 3rd unknown than it is to be Math.

no it's not cause I'm never scum with mathblade.

if you were to trade me and gamma, you'd say if I flip scum math can still be scum, which is not the thread consensus. the thread consensus is that me and math are not scum together. are you even reading me? I don't think you're reading me.

[Toranaga]

sando try to explain to me how changing gamma and tora in that post makes exactly the same sense.

also are you now saying I'm scum but gamma is town? I feel like that's what you're suggesting right now.

[Toranaga]

why am I more likely scum than gamma, sando?