Starcraft Mafia -- Game Over!

[Shoshin]

@Shoshin: She seemed convinced that her meta townread on N_M was valid. I can definitely chalk that down to confirmation bias (given that I disagreed with the reasoning itself). Also, if she were scum, you'd think that she'd be just making empty "he's town" posts, for the credit. My impression was that she really really wanted to stop the lynch. I don't think she is scummy.

No, I don't think Nancy would just make empty "he's town" posts. Those don't give credit to anyone? Especially not in this playerlist. Most of us are a bit more sophisticated thinkers than that.

Why was she convined NM was town? Was her reasoning something she's likely to believe as town? I understand that you think it's possible she's town. I'm saying it's unlikely. Why are you defending her when nothing you're saying has any inkling of town?

[Shoshin]

the worst, Nancy is scum. Please trust me on this.

I actually think you may possibly be clueless town here afterall because you wouldn’t want to be responsible for pushing 2 mislynches back to back.

Because, no one in this game will townread you after my flip. So if you’re actually town here, you don’t want to be the 3rd mislynch following me, I hope?

Are you townreading this defense, the worst? It's entirely fear-based reasoning (i.e. "don't lynch me because when I flip town you're going to be mislynched too"). Extremely manipulative.

[Shoshin]

Like, let's recap the end of D1. You've got multiple townies pushing NM (me, Irrelephant, the worst, Nauci). There's no scum on the wagon at this point. With a bunch of strong town voices pushing NM, why would scum vote him? Why not let town implode on itself while townreading him? That's my first thought looking back. So I'm looking to see who was avoiding the wagon and why. Performer/Mew/Creature were voting Creature. I don't see those players actually defending NM, though. They're not looking for town credit. Then there's Koki. He's throwing out townreads on NM, in the same way he tends to play as either alignment. It's null for him. And then there's Nancy, strongly calling NM ton for reasons that don't square at all with her normal way of thinking as town. It's completley out of character for her. And then she opens D2 suddenly trying to discredit me for the rest of the game because of one mislynch and casting suspicion on me for things that she'd never suspect me for as town (i.e. ignoring NM's reads). To me, that feels like scum who is trying to take advantage of the fact that they townread a mislynched player while trying to create more mislynching options among players who were strongly townread on D1. It's the ideal scum strategy of breaking up the strong town core of myself, the worst, Nauci, especially now that Irrelephant is dead and he's not around to defend me anymore.

That's where I'm at. I have a difficult time ever seeing Nancy flip town here. If nobody wants to lynch her until LYLO, fine, whatever. I'll be pushing her until she's dead.

[Shoshin]

Shoshin is basically never scum here but I'm also starting to think I should probably be townreading Nancy as well.

Why is she town?

[Shoshin]

Didn’t expect Relly and Creature to die... but think their deaths help out our PoE.

No, they don't.

[Shoshin]

Shoshin is basically never scum here but I'm also starting to think I should probably be townreading Nancy as well.

VOTE: Performer
guessing we can't lynch Kokichi?

Why Performer over Mew?

[Shoshin]

Shoshin is basically never scum here but I'm also starting to think I should probably be townreading Nancy as well.

Why is she town?

More that this start to day two doesn't read like scum!her. She's a lot less aggressive and more pockety--i get that shooting Rel then tunnelling {you, me, Varsoon} is a good way to break up the PoE but I'm pretty sure Nancy realises as scum that she doesn't have the towncred to actually successfully pull it off. The way she's fighting you here is also pretty full of conviction (which she can fake to an extent but I don't think she sounds this good as scum unless she's on her A++ game).

I think you're severely underestimating her. She's obviously becoming more comfortable playing scum (there's clearly a progression in Heroes Wanted that shows her getting more comfortable over time) so yes she's capable of faking all this stuff. I haven't seen anything from her that's beyond her capabilities.

I don't understand how you can say she's town for fighting me with conviction. I feel like that's the easiest thing to fake as scum (outrage that someone's calling you scum isn't hard to do, especially when all you do is call the other person scum at the same time that you call their reads bad). I see her overreacting in a way she wouldn't be as town.

[Shoshin]

i don't really have a reason for not_mafia either way; he's *slightly* on the townie side of null but i always want him resolved before lylo

like i wont' object to his lynch, but i wont' particularly go out of my way to make it happen tho; i feel like lynching not_mafia is kinda like a *disappointing* ending to a day this long and would prefer to lynch someone i actually think is scummy tho

This is how I would have expected town Nancy to react to NM if she thought he was townish. Compared with Skitter, Nancy's certainty that NM was going to flip town just doesn't make any sense.

[Shoshin]

I can read town!theworst. And I honestly don’t think this is him.

Explain.

[Shoshin]

Nancy, why doesn't Irrelephant's death confirm me as town in your eyes?

[Shoshin]

Irrelephant would have rather been lynched then let me be lynched... so why would I ever kill him as scum? If I were scum playing the way I am (and I wish I could play scum like this), I take Irrelephant with me to 3-way LYLO because that wins me the game.

Irrelephant's death should confirm me in Nancy's eyes, not only because Irrelephant knows me better than anyone else on this site and has a flawless record of reading me, but mainly because Nancy seems to be giving lots of weight to what dead townies thought about the game.

[Shoshin]

Shoshin/me w/w in particular never kills Rel
If you don't expressly townread both of us you're mad to think we are ever scum together

lol seriously...

[Shoshin]

Key, you sort of flew under the radar in D1. Who are your top townreads/scumreads at the moment?

[Shoshin]

And what do you think of my analysis on Nancy as scum?

[Shoshin]

The main problem with Shoshin’s argument, is obviously there’s at least 3 scum in the game but in MU Greek Mythology game, I stupidly stopped the lynch on godfather Batman, only to be rewarded with a N1 NK.

That game isn't remotely comparable, the biggest differences being the strength of Irrelephant's townread on me, Irrelephant's extensive knowledge of my meta, his willingness to follow my reads in most cases, and the fact that he had already claimed a non-threatening role to the scum. If I were scum, I never kill him here.

The existence of three scum is irrelevant. Scum do what wins them the game. If a player townreads scum to the extent that Irrelephant townread me, a player who already claimed a non-threatening role to the scum, scum probably leave that player alive on N1. Whoever killed Irrelephant found him threatening enough to think that it was worth killing him over trying to kill a potential power role (investigative, protective, etc.). The likely reason for Irrelephant's death is that he correctly scumread at least one of the scum, and/or scum have a protective role (bulletproof, doctor, or whatever) that they feared would be lynched today and they wanted to kill Irrelephant while they had the chance. Whatever the case, it's never me.

Like, think about Labyrinth mafia. Why didn't scum ever kill you despite being confirmed town? Because you townread the scum. There's exceptions to that general rule, but not in a case like this where Irrelephant townread me to the extent he did. It's odd that you're discounting that and immediately assuming I'm scum for pushing you a bit.

[Shoshin]

@Shoshin: I thought you didn't mislynch people?
What's the deal?

Knew this was coming... I never said I don't mislynch, I just didn't in the game you think I lost us and I didn't in Labyrinth (so Nancy is temporarily forgiven for expecting better). Yes, I was wrong about NM. I saw reasons to townread him but ignored them over the reasons to scumread him, so it's my bad.

That said, I don't think that means I'm suddenly wrong about my overall take on the game. I'm reevaluating but my top townreads are still town, and Irrelephant's death strengthens those reads on the worst and Nauci. This game feels like American Presidents, where we were onto scum on D1 but ended up mislynching, but by D2 we had scum narrowed down enough to win.

[Shoshin]

Best part about Irre dying is him seeing I'm town in dead thread

This actually feels townish, though Koki is good enough to fake it.

[Shoshin]

I don't think it should ping scum.

[Shoshin]

You’re missing the point. He quoted a very similar post by me and implied it was scummy. It’s the hypocrisy part of it, which pinged me.

I dunno. Hypocrisy is usually town unless there's a clear scum motive.

[Shoshin]

You’re missing the point. He quoted a very similar post by me and implied it was scummy. It’s the hypocrisy part of it, which pinged me.

I dunno. Hypocrisy is usually town unless there's a clear scum motive.

Why is it usually town?

Scum tend to be more self-conscious of what they're doing, which tends to make them more self-aware of acting hypocritically. Scum act hypocritically when they're pushing an agenda, but otherwise hypocrisy usually comes from town.

[Shoshin]

I've seen town shoshin appear to tunnel town hard until something finally convinced her otherwise though

Yeah, pretty much. I push a lot of things that I don't actually believe in with the intent of testing reactions & refining reads across the board.

[Shoshin]

Hey, guys.. A50 here.

can you please lynch Koki & Shoshin after we flip?

Also, tw is very likely town despite of Nancy not liking his play.

Please remember to lynch Koki & Shoshin after we are confirmed. Thank you.

Over to you, Nancy.

It's pretty odd that A50 is suddenly calling for my lynch. It's also odd that he's this worried about getting lynched when I'm the only person voting their slot and everyone I've interacted with up to this point was defending them against me.

[Shoshin]

It's pretty odd that A50 is suddenly calling for my lynch. It's also odd that he's this worried about getting lynched

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. Worried? ME??? FROM YOU?????

If you weren't worried, why were you talking about who to lynch after your flip, as if your lynch was happening? That's not usually how someone who isn't worried talks...

[Shoshin]

VOTE: Performer

[Shoshin]

ngl i think it's entirely possible that you killed irrel last night

This is what I was thinking.

I also don't like that Performer keeps acting like scum would never shoot Irrelephant. Feels like something scum would say when they in fact shot him.

[Shoshin]

VOTE: key

Are you townreading Mew?

[Shoshin]

Key has these hints of towniness, a lot of his posts feel really towny by themselves. But overall, he's much less aggressive and much more passive than his usual town self. What are your thoughts, Nauci?

[Shoshin]

For me personally, aggressivness/passivity ranges a lot based on how busy I am, so I kinda want to townread Key because of his really towny posts even though a lot of his usual town play is missing. There's nothing actually scummy about him.

[Shoshin]

VOTE: key

Are you townreading Mew?

No what does the correlation between that and my vote

Felt like a turning point in the game in terms of whether focus would turn onto Mew or Key. You voted Key instead of Mew, and naturally with multiple votes his way, there's more discussion about him. So I'm trying to get a sense of what you specifically think of Mew. Why aren't you townreading him? What's your read?

[Shoshin]

If I reveal the specific flavour, than scum could fakeclaim it

Why would scum fakeclaim something that exists? I'm confused.

[Shoshin]

The last couple pages from Skitter should remove any lingering doubts about her alignment. She's town.

[Shoshin]

No idea what Varsoon talking about re: flavor or multiball. Doesn't feel like something that come from town, more like scum trying to shake things up. Also don't like that he's saying I'm not around, trying to plant seeds of paranoia about me.

[Shoshin]

Yeah, I think this is actually why Shoshin got thrown off.

This feels a TMI pocket. Aren't you expecting me to suck? And who is to say I was thrown off yet? One mislynch on D1 doesn't mean I'm on the wrong track?

[Shoshin]

I need to reevaluate things. I'm thinking there's mafia plus two third party.

[Shoshin]

I'm not townreading Varsoon anymore.

[Shoshin]

VOTE: Key

[Shoshin]

You're not mafia, Varsoon. That much is clear.

[Shoshin]

Also, I wouldn't tilt this hard as third party, trust.
I'd want to keep a low profile and avoid flavor spec that could make me seem informed.

I don't see you tilting? Why are you pretending that's the case?

[Shoshin]

I'm willing to case Key if need be.

[Shoshin]

In short, Key's scum because he's more passive, more non-committal, less analytical, and less aggressive than he is as town. The main points:

1. He's doing the typical scum thing of popping in just enough to avoid too much suspicion. As town, Key is usually actively engaged in moving the game forward with aggressive questioning. As scum, Key tends to be much less aggressive. This game fits his scum meta when it comes to levels of engagement, passivity, and aggression.

2. He's more non-committal than I've ever seen him as town. He constantly posts "maybe X but maybe not" posts, which don't actually take a clear position about anything. He constantly calls things "interesting" instead of taking a meaningful position about them (this is actually a scum tell for a surprisingly large number of players, specifically calling lots of things "interesting," "weird," "odd," etc., - probably an unconscious attempt to avoid scum telling by revealing as little information as possible about one's perspective). The point is that Key's not taking clear positions in the way he usually do as town.

3. He's been speculating about third party or "solo scum" more than feels natural for town. For example, rather than push on Creature as mafia, he pushes Creature as "third party." When he says that Performer's "probably town," he notes that Performer "could be solo scum." It feels like Key's looking for third party rather than mafia, which suggests he's operating from an informed perspective about who the mafia are. While town sometimes look for third party, or think a player looks like third party, it's rare that town start speculating about multiple players as third party while calling those players "probably town."

4. He's been pushing a scum agenda by trying to challenge our townreads from taking hold. He pushed on Irrelephant (obvious town), the worst (obvious town), and then supported both Varsoon/Xtom for questioning the early townreads. This is out of character for town Key, who in both games I've seen gave out lots of early townreads and didn't show anything close to the level of irrational paranoia he's had this game about early townreads. In American Presidents, we had just as many early townreads as this game and Key was one of the players giving them out. In schadd's game, same. What's different in this game? If anything, players were town telling harder than in those other games. Yet Key's reacting differently? That's a sign of a change in perspective & win condition.

[Shoshin]

Really important shit if I die tonight, but I'm sure you numbskulls will completely not listen to me:

Performer is very likely scum with that claim.
If Kokichi isn't confirmed as town, he is confirmed as scum.
Look really really close at what I've posted today. It'll serve as your roadmap to scum.
Don't let this be another TAZ.

If you're hiding something in some crumb somewhere, please just say it outright. As for Koki, don't worry, he's dying if he isn't confirmed.

[Shoshin]

How sure are you on Mew? Can you case him for me?

[Shoshin]

Did Key claim flavor?

[Shoshin]

Maybe this is like American Presidents where town basically did catch multiple scum early but kept thinking that only one of the competing wagons could be scum instead of that all of the candidates were

This is my sense. I don't see resistance to the Performer/Mew wagons, just a lot of movement from townies trying to choose the highest percentage lynch.

[Shoshin]

Key's focus on solo scum & resistance to townreads makes more sense with his role.

[Shoshin]

Key, what're your current reads?

[Shoshin]

So, just to make sure I understand, Key is told if someone has a gun? If they do, they're a town killing role or mafia? And if they don't, they're a town pr or third party?

[Shoshin]

Mitillos, can you explain why you're voting Performer over Mew/Key?

[Shoshin]

Mitillos, can you explain why you're voting Performer over Mew/Key?

Can you also talk about why you townread Mew on D1?

[Shoshin]

I have the worst, Nauci, Skitter, Varsoon, and Nancy as varying degrees of town.

I expect Koki to prove himself town tomorrow so I'm treating him as town today. If he's scum, we'll reevaluate everything tomorrow.

That leaves Key, Mew, Mitillos, Xtom, and Performer. We need to sort the scum between these players.

I don't think Key/Mew/Performer are scum together. It seems unlikely that they'd coordinate an attack on Creature on D1, only to kill Creature during N1. There's at least one town in this group.

[Shoshin]

VOTE: Mitillos

[Shoshin]

That's okay. I like to know these things.

[Shoshin]

VOTE: Xtom

[Shoshin]

Key's claim doesn't confirm him as town?

[Shoshin]

I'm around for the next couple hours to discuss the game. Let's solve this.

[Shoshin]

Is that Nancy?

[Shoshin]

I agree with Xtoxm that it’s highly unlikely that there are no investigatives in this setup.

Why are you assuming Key's the only investigative?

[Shoshin]

Okay, Nancy. I'm glad you're around. Can you give me a summary of where you stand on the game? Who are you willing to lynch? Who are you unwilling to lynch?

[Shoshin]

Do I really have to claim investigative just to get Key lynched? C'mon, Nancy. Investigatives shouldn't need to claim just to get him lynched.

[Shoshin]

But if we ended up in a spot we thought was lylo and went for a massclaim, and it turns out no one dead or alive claims invest, would you agree keys is then very likely town?
If yes, why risk lynching the invest today?
Perf claims protective. We have a dead protective. Perf can never be cleared by setup spec. Keys potentially could, as well as providing a headache for scum if he is town.
Lynching an invest claim with no counters on D2 is a really high risk play we don't need to take.

p-ed: I'm frustrated at Keys lack of doing much as well, i'm not sure he's ever placed a vote since RVS? But that doesn't mean i'm willing to risk lynching him at this stage of the game.

@Shoshin, @anyone.

Tell me, how this isn’t town?

Xtom isn't scumhunting? He's just trying to outguess the mod ("this game has to have investigatives"). Why is this town?

[Shoshin]

I agree 100% with Skitter.

[Shoshin]

mechanics are FAR more reliable in this game than reads.

I strongly disagree. You can't reliably outguess the mod or know what sorts of misdirection powers scum have. Behaviors, on the other hand, never lie.

[Shoshin]

There's at least two scum in Key, Mew, Mitillos, Xtom, or Performer. Key should be investigating within this group if he isn't lynched today.

[Shoshin]

i mean i would actually be fine lynching kokichi today but yeah

Patience.

[Shoshin]

I don't doubt Key's role, nor do I think there's any need for him to prove it. What we need is investigations on scummy players, results that we can use if Key flips town.

[Shoshin]

Nancy, I beg you to stop talking about proving Key's role. Key's role doesn't prove his alignment so it's not a helpful area of discussion to sort him.

[Shoshin]

I also think you're townreading Xtom too easily, Nancy. It reminds me of the way you townread Random in Labyrinth. Can you explain precisely why you townread him? Explain in your own words why he's town.

[Shoshin]

Can you link me to any games with a scum gunsmith in them?

I'm sure there's games. And even if there isn't, remember when you kept saying there couldn't be scum neighbors in Labyrinth?

[Shoshin]

Xtom's trying to stop the lynch of a scummy player, Nancy. What reminds me of Labyrinth is your willingness to townread scummy players for bad reasons.

[Shoshin]

Nancy, I'm waiting for you to explain why Xtom's town.

[Shoshin]

Varsoon, now that you're around, can you update me on your reads? Where are you on the game relative to me?

[Shoshin]

Nancy, I'm waiting for you to explain why Xtom's town.

I already did. How ever you’re reading Key, there’s nothing remotely scummy about Xtoxm’s case. Random OTOH, had really weird reasons for pushing Nico and reminding me over and over how wrong I was about that, has absolutely nothing to do with my Xtoxm read.

I am not in some private hood with him, like I was with Random. So, there is no basis for you to make this comparison.

I don't understand why you townread Xtom, so please explain again as if it isn't obvious. It might seem obvious to you but it's not to me.

I'm not saying your read on Random has anything to do with your read on Xtom. I'm bringing up Labyrinth because from my perspective I'm running into the same communication problems with you that I ran into in Labyrinth. In Labyrinth, you townread a player that was scum, Random. I told you that Random was scum, and I questioned your townread on his slot. I tried talking with you about why you townread Random, but you wouldn't really engage with me about why you townread him or with my reasons for scumreading him. You ignored my read until LYLO. Then he flipped scum, and you said at the end of the game that you wouldn't ignore my reads again.

So I sort of thought you would actually communicate differently with me. But now you're townreading a player that I'm calling scum and FROM MY PERSPECTIVE it feels like you're ignoring my reads again. Maybe you're not ignoring them but you're not communicating that clearly to me. The point is that this situation feels similar from my perspective because I'm trying to communiate with you about a disagreement and I don't feel like you're making any attempt to get a better understanding of the game with me. I don't want us talking past each other.

I'd like to know why you townread Xtom, and I'd appreciate if you could explain it for someone who isn't seeing it. I can't agree with you if I don't understand the read, nor can I address what's wrong with it if there's something wrong with the read. I'm also happy to discuss why I think Xtom's scum, but only if you're going to be open to what I'm saying so that we can actually figure this out together.

[Shoshin]

Varsoon, why are you townreading Xtom?

[Shoshin]

And why are you townreading Mitillos?

[Shoshin]

Speaking of people not really leaving an impression on me, Irrelephant came to mind and I literally had to check the OP to realize he was one of the dead players.

Weren't you just talking about how he was killed by an SK?

[Shoshin]

Shoshin.
Are you willing to take a gamble with me?

What's the gamble?

[Shoshin]

I think you should have just been straightforward, Varsoon. But that's easier to say in hindsight. I understand why you played the way you did.

[Shoshin]

What's the information?

[Shoshin]

Your scumread on Xtoxm seems to be based on him being opposed to lynching Keys, who you scumread, correct?

Incorrect. That has nothing to do with why I'm suspicious of Xtom. Xtom's read on Nauci, as well as his reads on otthers throughout the game, are suspect. His mechanical analysis isn't.

But since I’m mind melding with him on not wanting to lynch him today, for pretty much the exact same reasons. I obviously can’t see that as scummy, irrespective of Key’s actual alignment.

That's fine. I don't see why agreeing with him about something mechanical makes him a townread. Scum usually don't have trouble faking mechanical analysis. It's easy to talk about setup/mechanics as scum because it doesn't matter if you're informed/uninformed, the analysis is the same. When it comes to behaviors, scum run into trouble because they're already informed about alignments in ways that make it difficult for them to analyze behaviors without already knowing that the behaviors come from a particular alignment. Xtom has been avoiding behavioral analysis in favor of mechanical speculations.

And tbf, I was right on NM. I townread him, so like I said to Varsoon right at the beginning of the game - I’m always going to put a hard townread over anyone else’s opinion - even yours.

That's fine. You were right about NM, so I'm seeking your insight into Xtom. I'd like to know why he's town. I'm still waiting for you to explain the townread.

[Shoshin]

I am informed there is another player in the game with the same flavor name as me.
I am also informed that they are a member of the Zerg faction.
Each night, I learn the targets of the Zerg night kills.
At Night 4, I will learn all of the targets for Zerg night actions taken on Night 3.
I am also informed that they KNOW my role exists and what I am aware of, but not who I am.

I am Duran.
I think that AlmostNancy's play has specifically been trying to get me to tilt the other knowledge I have.
I highly suspected I would die tonight and was trying to make implications about AlmostNancy so that you'd be able to follow the crumbs back there.
I didn't want to claim this because now Zerg HAVE TO KILL ME and our Medic is dead, too.

I also believe Zerg work on an Even-Night Kill because Zerg did not kill on Night 1.

Oh, fuck. That makes sense on Nancy. So you're positive there weren't any Zerg kills last night?

[Shoshin]

varsoon said that the zerg mind control humans to do their bidding. what if the zerg is scum/sk and that is their ability, to control a terran player and have them perform the kill.
so a zerg mind controlled creature to kill irre and then creature got pgo'd

What do you make of this, Varsoon?

[Shoshin]

Yeah, don't worry. We're lynching Koki if he isn't confirmed.

[Shoshin]

I think Nancy should claim.

[Shoshin]

Town isn't fucked just because we out information. Like, that's not how mafia works.

[Shoshin]

I disagree about Xtom, Nauci.

[Shoshin]

I just don't care that much about mechanics. I want to find the scum, that's all.

[Shoshin]

There's better games if all you want is to solve a logic puzzle.

[Shoshin]

I'm sad Irrelephant's dead.

[Shoshin]

Who would Irrelephant want to lynch if still alive?

[Shoshin]

Nauci, what are you seeing in your meta on Performer? Any clear differences in his town/scum games?

[Shoshin]

Good! Any update on your reads, Koki?

[Shoshin]

Thoughts on the game?

[Shoshin]

For the record, I don't think Varsoon made a mistake outing his information.

[Shoshin]

My thoughts on claims/roles:

Spoiler:

I think most players care too much about keeping their roles hidden. I don't think it hurts towns to get multiple early claims from scummy players. I also don't think it hurts to get early claims from townies when those claims are helpful to sorting alignments (e.g. Varsoon's information, miller claims, etc.) or to avoiding catastrophe (e.g. Irrelephant's PGO claim). Yes, roles sometimes help confirm players as town (e.g. vig shooting mafia, doctor preventing a nightkill), but competent scum also fake these sorts of behaviors (e.g. forfeiting nightkill to fakeclaim doctor/bulletproof). I don't see why players place so much value in roles when they don't help nearly as much as people seem to think. From what I've seen, they often lead to mislynches (scum love to push mislynches through role analysis).

I also think most players put too much weight into investigation. I've seen scum fake investigative results in most of my theme games, mini or large. I've seen town get faulty results in half my theme games. I've seen town get mislynched because of faulty guilty results. I've seen scum get cleared from faulty innocents. The reality is that you never know if the investigation has been screwed with by a redirector, bus driver, lawyer, framer, etc. The benefit of investigations from my perspective is to corroborate behavioral reads (e.g. in RC's recent game, an investigative result corroborated strong townreads on NSG and scumreads on Nico), or to encourage players to reevaluate someone you've been townreading (i.e. to combat confirmation bias). I'd never lynch someone because of a guilty, nor clear someone because of an innocent investigation.

I also think the players talking about "game-throwing" in this game because we outed Varsoon's information are overreacting. We outed some information. So what? If he dies, he dies. If he doesn't, he doesn't. The benefit of outing him is that we're getting stronger townreads on his slot, as well as valuable behavioral reactions from Nancy. From my perspective, that's much more useful than keeping his information hidden. I feel more comfortable townreading both him & Nancy after this, which means we're refining our reads in productive ways due to Varsoon's play. It also hedges against the risk that he dies before he outs the information. I see this as a win-win.

[Shoshin]

I still think the mafia lies within Key, Mew, Xtom, Mitillos, or Performer. I don't care that much who we lynch in this group as long as it's one of these five.

There's a chance that Koki's scum but it's not something I care to worry about today. I also don't think it changes my analysis that the rest of scum lie in those five players.

[Shoshin]

Replying to Varsoon's spoiler:

Spoiler:

I haven't seen any games where investigative results state who the result was on. I thought it was "guilty" or "innocent," so you don't know if you're redirected. I suppose it depends on the mod. I also don't think it addresses the problem of flavors (paranoid/naive/insane) or lawyers/framers.

If a cop got a guilty in this game on the worst or Nauci, I wouldn't lynch them. I'd take another look at their play but if their behaviors were town (as they are), I still wouldn't lynch. I trust behaviors more than roles because there's too much uncertainty regarding role interactions in closed setups, whereas there's no uncertainty regarding what a player did in the public thread. I also think that blaming the mod for bad design isn't fair to the mods or players. You know that the game of mafia potentially includes misdirection roles, millers, godfathers, etc., which means you have should keep those roles in mind if you want to win every game, not just the games that are designed according to your preferences. I think it's a skill to know when you should follow roles and when you should ignore results.

Personally, I like games with miller/godfather because I think it forces players to rely more on behavioral analysis. I think it's less fun to just play "follow the cop" than to sort players by their behaviors. I also think that there's games for everyone. There's entirely vanilla games for players who don't want to worry about role interactions. There's "normal" games where you can usually trust roles. And then there's theme games, where there's uncertainty, which means you have to develop the skill of sorting the results themselves based on behaviors.

[Shoshin]

I think if Irrelephant were here he'd push Performer over Key. I don't know for sure but I imagine him focusing in on Performer's hammer more than most of us.

[Shoshin]

Why is Performer a step lower than Key/Mew, Skitter?

[Shoshin]

I understand, Skitter.

[Shoshin]

I actually think I've found a solid scum tell on Performer. Looking through meta to confirm.

[Shoshin]

Performer, can you link me your most recent town/scum games?

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=77190

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=77146

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=77228

Why'd you only link town games? Can you link multiple scum games please?

[Shoshin]

Nauci, when you're around, I'd like to talk with you about Performer's meta.

[Shoshin]

Mitil voted me for instance, and provided a case - I still townread him.

Performer/Mitillos aren't scum together. Unlikely that this interaction comes from partners.

[Shoshin]

Performer, what're your current reads?

[Shoshin]

Why aren't you townreading me, Performer?

[Shoshin]

Performer, you didn't answer why you aren't townreading me...

[Shoshin]

Is there any chance of lynching Xtom?

[Shoshin]

Mew should probably out his information.

[Shoshin]

I'm saying that I'm unsure about who to lynch between you & Performer.

[Shoshin]

Shoshin I think Xtoxm is probably town after all. Thoughts?

I don't see it.

[Shoshin]

It's either Xtom or Mitillos.

[Shoshin]

What are the votes at?

[Shoshin]

Key, why are you reading Xtom/Performer as townier than Skitter/Nancy?

[Shoshin]

VOTE: Mew

[Shoshin]

You don't suck, Nauci. I think most players are clearing Xtom/Mitillos too easily. Other than that, we're on the right track.

[Shoshin]

I'm voting Mew because I think Performer's more likely to flip town. I think scum Performer plays more cautiously than he's played in this game, and I think the players pushing Performer's lynch are themselves scummy (Xtom, Mitillos, Mew, Koki). I also think scum Performer doesn't scumread most of the players in the game, as he's been doing. If anything, scum Performer gives out a few strategic townreads in the hopes of pocketing a townie. I also think it's unlikely that scum Performer links me to three town games without linking to a scum game. The lack of self awareness there just doesn't feel like scum Performer.

If it were up to me, I'd lynch between Xtom/Mitillos today. I feel like whenever I suspect someone is scum that most players townread, I'm usually right. the worst, you can think back to xwing in schadd's game, or Random in Labyrinth, as examples. I'm getting the same feelings this game, that people are townreading a player who is scum. I'm fairly confident there's at least one scum between Xtom/Mitillos, based on how things went down on D1. I'm not sure who the scum is between them but I don't think either should be townread.

Reasons not to townread Xtom:

Spoiler:

1. Xtom's early scumread on me doesn't come from the perspective of someone actually trying to sort my alignment. Compare Xtom's read with Performer's, for example. Performer actually traces specific behaviors that lead to a scumread, whereas Xtom just says he doesn't like the early townreads. Yet he ignores everyone else who's been giving out early townreads, which suggests that he's not actually concerned about players giving out early townreads; there's an ulterior reason he's scumreading me. I think the most plausible explanation for Xtom's early play is that he scumread me as part of a scum agenda to pocket Varsoon (see, for example, his early post to Varsoon about "hoping they're on the same team this game") as well as to keep me available as a mislynch.

2. Xtom's emotions don't feel natural for a townie. For example, he expresses emotions of disgust towards the early parts of the game where lots of players were giving out townreads ("disgust" isn't a natural townie emotion to seeing lots of townreads). I can point to numerous places where Xtom's emotions feel too strong or unnatural for the events that are happening. The emotions also don't square with his sort of emotionless attitude towards actual scumhunting.

3. Xtom's reads are entirely survivalistic. If you townread him, he townreads you. If you scumread him, he scumreads you. This isn't how town Xtom thinks, because town Xtom assumes that most townies are wrong about their reads. His lack of paranoia about the players townreading him, as well as his consistent scumreads on the players scumreading him, comes from a scum agenda, not from a genuine attempt to sort alignments. What is his scum agenda? It depends on the alignments of Performer/Key/Mew/Mitillos. Whatever their alignments, there's a clear scum agenda to Xtom's reads. Most importantly, he's putting easily manipulated townies (e.g. Nancy, Varsoon) towards the top of his reads (especially Varsoon, who he's been actively pocketing from the start of the game). And he's setting certain players up as potential mislynches (me, Performer, Mitillos). He lists strong townies somewhere in the middle (e.g. the worst, Nauci), with occassional attempts to move them lower on his readslist (e.g. his attempt to scumread Nauci).

4. Xtom's still has me as his top scumread. I don't believe a townie ever scumreads me in this game to that extent, not after the way I've been playing, not after Irrelephant's defense of me or after Irrelephant's death, not after everyone who knows my town/scum meta strongly townreads me. It's fine to have some irrational paranoia about me, but listing me as a top scumread runs counter to everything that's actually happening in the game. It's very unlikely that town Xtom genuinely trying to sort me sticks with me as their top suspect while not actually pushing me. It reminds me of scum NSG in TAZ Mafia. She kept saying I was scummy without pushing me, biding her time until LYLO, when I got mislynched. I get the sense that Xtom's doing something similar, trying to keep me open as a mislynch while doing nothing to actually push me when my lynch isn't going to happen. If he actually thinks I'm most likely to flip scum, why isn't he pushing me more?

5. Xtom's won lots of games as scum. He's a lot more competent scum than most players in this game give him credit for. Clearing him for superficial reasons isn't helpful. His actions need to be looked at very carefully.

Reasons not to townread Mitillos:

Spoiler:

1. His apathy towards solving the game. He's barely posted on D2. When he posts, it doesn't seem like he's analyzing the game with anything close to the depth of thought he had on D1. He doesn't seem interested in refining his reads. Instead, he's locked his reads into place based on mechanical reasons (e.g. Performer hammering NM). I feel like town Mitillos would be analyzing roles/flavor more, weighing in on Varsoon/Nancy, Mew's claim/behavior, etc. In general, analytical players like Mitillos (or Skitter, Nauci, etc.) tend to drop off as scum in precisely the way Mitillos has dropped off in this game. Faking that analytical style of play is quite exhausting as scum, and that's the sense I'm getting from Mitiillos.

2. I think he's been pushing a scum agenda. Like Xtom, he's pushing Performer over Key/Mew. This depends on their alignments, of course, but I get the sense Performer's flipping town and that Mitillos is pushing mislynches. He pushed a mislynch on NM. If Performer flips town, that's two mislynches he's pushed. His votes on D1 always seemed to be in precisely the spots where I'd expect scum to vote (assuming my townreads on the worst, Nauci, Varsoon, Skitter, and Nancy are right). His early push on Irrelephant was terrible. His switch from Xtom to Performer the moment that Xtom was placed at L-1 was bad. His defense of Mew as town doesn't make sense to me.

3. The biggest problem I have with Mitillos is his response to my push on Nancy. In case it wasn't obvious yet, I was pushing Nancy in large part to test reactions. I wasn't actually thinking she was scum, but I thought the reasons I gave for scumreading her were correct. The problem with my push on Nancy is that I was ignoring all her town tells while pushing her on things that are actually scummy in a vacuum but not nearly enough to outweigh the massive town tells she's dropped nor were they scummy for her specifically. I didn't think scum would ever pick up on that. I was looking for two things -- players who agreed with me on the push on Nancy without much deeper thought, and players who strongly disagreed with me for the wrong reaosns. Mitillos fell into the latter group. He disagreed with the push, calling my reasoning "fallacious," when it really wasn't. He said he understood why town Nancy would townread NM, but I think the only reason Mitillos would feel that way about Nancy is if he KNEW Nancy was town. Worse, Mitillos felt the need to explain why he was calling my reasoning "fallacious," in a way that felt like he was trying to justify his behavior/perspective when nobody was even calling him scummy for it. That preemptive defense of his behavior is one of the scummiest things I've seen in the game. It's like he unconsciously was betraying an informed perspective and preemptively defended himself for it.

[Shoshin]

@Shoshin: I can answer why she townread N_M, and I already did (because she already explained it, herself). I cannot answer whether her reasoning fits her town meta. As for throwing shade at your slot, tempers are high, what with us lynching a doctor. I can accept such things as coming from town generally. If Nancy is not capable of these things as town, that's another story, but I don't have the meta for this suggestion.
When I made reference to empty "he's town" posts, I didn't mean just those words. I meant half-hearted non-effort at explaining or defending N_M.

I'm defending her because I think that your reasoning for scumreading her is fallacious. I don't like fallacious reasoning. I don't like fallacious reasoning even when it comes to a conclusion I agree with. In fact, as town I once defended another player against fallacious accusations, and made my own case against him in the same post (and caught a lot of flak for doing this).

This is the Mitillos post I was referring to. He doesn't know Nancy's town meta, so he shouldn't be calling my reasoning "fallacious" (it's based entirely on Nancy's meta). Mitillos knows Nancy's alignment.

Then, he defends what he's doing preemptively. That part is bolded. I don't get why Mitillos is preemptively defending himself as a towny. Town don't need to explain why everything they're doing is towny. Scum, on the other hand, are mentally thinking this stuff as they post (i.e. "is what I'm doing something I'd do as town?" is a common question that scum ask themselves). The fact that Mitillos would be posting an answer to that question without any attack on him suggests that he's mentally answering that question before he posts, which suggests he's scum.

[Shoshin]

I'm okay leaving Key alive for now, Nauci. What do you think of the scum tell I pointed to in 2559?

[Shoshin]

This is going to seem like an odd request to some of you but can everyone please break large quote blocks up a bit so that the thread is easier to read? Like, instead of quoting your entire conversation, maybe just quoting exactly what you're responding to? There's a lot of posts in this game and it's starting to get difficult to reread things with so much clutter. I'd really appreciate if we could make things easier on my eyes.

[Shoshin]

#4080 is so full of misreps and twisting of facts its comical. you guys will have to take the blinkers off at some point. just because she has 1 game of scum ever in her meta and played badly in it doesnt mean you should locktown and never reevaluate if she isnt obvious floundering scum. people improve a lot after being scum the first time.

What facts did I get wrong? Why would I kill Creature/Irrelephant as scum? Why do you imagine that you are somehow more capable of reading my alignment than players who have actually played multiple games with me? In particular, why are you ignoring Irrelephant's read on me, when he's the player who most knows me on this site, has a perfect record of reading me, and would have rather been lynched than let me be lynched?

[Shoshin]

I'm between Xtom/Mitillos as preferred lynches, the worst. Help me understand what I'm missing about Xtom? How do you explain his scumread on me as coming from town? Or any of the points in my analysis?

[Shoshin]

I'm dreading the day I get a scum PM.

[Shoshin]

im playing nothing like my scum game.

What's the difference between your town/scum game?

[Shoshin]

scumtoxm finds real time interaction extremely difficult and will tend to avoid it. space dandy 1 has a good example of this where i actually get called out for going quiet mid convo.

You did plenty of real time interaction in that game.

[Shoshin]

im not sure that angrytoxm has ever been scum. theres a possibility im wrong on that but i dont recall any. but you push it as a reason to scumread me in 4080.

I never said anything about "anger"? I was referring to unnatural emotions, not "anger" in specific.

[Shoshin]

I don't expect anyone to change their mind about Xtom, I just had to get my thoughts out before the day ended. I would really hate to lose this game to scum Xtom.

[Shoshin]

@Xtom

What post # did you stop scumreading me? What post # did you start scumreading me again? Where's the trajectory? At the time you started scumreading me again, what was it based on? Can you cite the specific posts from me that made you scumread me again?

As I said, your initial vote on me felt like an attempt to pocket Varsoon more than anything else because your reason for scumreading me felt fake. Then you said I was twisting the facts without saying what facts I twisted. And now you're saying that actually you didn't scumread me at the time but were just voting me because of the policy-lynch-question on Varsoon? Can you see why it looks to me like you're pocketing Varsoon with that vote rather than genuinely scumhunting?

You say that your continued scumread on me is based solely on the fact that I still scumread you, right? The problem with that reasoning is that I stopped scumreading you when my townreads started townreading you. I didn't mention you at all as an option for lynching at the end of D1. I also didn't mention you at all as a scumread throughout most of D2. You were in my pool of potential scum by poe but I wasn't actually scumreading you, what I was doing was townreading others. So please explain why you're not taking that into consideration when reading me?

You said you are bad at real time interactions as scum. I didn't see that in Space Dandy. You did lots of them there. Why are you mischaracterizing your play as scum? Do you disagree with my assessment that you are competent scum who wins many of your games?

What do you think of Nancy's townread on you? Her actual reasoning? Is she townreading you for valid reasons?

[Shoshin]

Don't worry, we're not no lynching. I'll definitely be around to switch my vote if necessary.

[Shoshin]

If Xtom's town, then Mitillos is scum, 100%.

[Shoshin]

VOTE: Koki

[Shoshin]

VOTE: the worst

This is lylo 100% and you guys are going to feel like morons for lynching the IC. Who confirmed cop has a soft inno on. The worst is 100% fake claiming because I have nothing he can have a soft guilty on ob my role.

no, i'd feel like you're a moron for not activating it

1/10 fearmonger attempt

Best post Xtom has made all game.

[Shoshin]

You're at L-2, Koki. Prove yourself or get lynched.

[Shoshin]

I was blocked last night.

[Shoshin]

VOTE: Performer

That hammer was inexcusable under any circumstances.

[Shoshin]

For what?

[Shoshin]

I don't think mass claiming is optimal when we know who we're lynching.

I prefer to keep my role to myself as it's more useful that way, though I highly suggest that if anyone watched/tracked anyone visiting me last night, out the result today because it's likely scum.

[Shoshin]

I don't think I was, Nauci. I think scum have a roleblocker of some sort who blocked me.

[Shoshin]

they would have to be nongroup scum

Whoever blocked me? Why?

[Shoshin]

Why would Varsoon's result rule out group scum blocking me?

[Shoshin]

The flavor of the blocking was "interrupted." Is that you, the worst?

[Shoshin]

the worst, Nauci, Varsoon - town

Nancy - probably witch, third party

Key/Performer/Mitillos - group scum

Can we still win this?

[Shoshin]

We need Nancy to vote for group scum or we're going to end up losing.

[Shoshin]

I guess we can mass claim since the game is solved.

[Shoshin]

You think Key/Mitillos is town?

[Shoshin]

the worst, what's your priority on roleblocking?

[Shoshin]

Nancy needs to explain why she blocked the worst and Nauci. I'd also like an explanation for your strong townread on Key/Mitillos. Neither of those make any sense.

[Shoshin]

Why are you townreading Key/Mitillos?

[Shoshin]

They don't make any sense.

[Shoshin]

Nauci, can you out your result on Key?

[Shoshin]

I was told that my action was "interrupted."

[Shoshin]

Reasons?

[Shoshin]

It's the nature of my role that I'd be told if I was blocked, I guess.

[Shoshin]

Varsoon claims that Zerg targeted Xtom for kill and the worst for something else. Varsoon's either scum lying about these actions or town telling the truth about them.

If Varsoon's town, then: the worst is town because scum don't target themselves, and Nancy's either town roleblocker along with the worst or she's a scum redirector who made the worst block me.

[Shoshin]

We still need to hear from Key/Mitillos.

[Shoshin]

There's no chance Performer is town, btw. Why the fuck would town Performer ever hammer Koki in that situation?

[Shoshin]

I still don't understand what the fuck Nancy's doing even if she's scum. Like, wtf is her scum strategy here? She easily could have gone along with lynching Key/Performer/Mitillos and won the game?

[Shoshin]

Why would scum Nancy kill Xtom, who had her as one of his top townreads?

[Shoshin]

Why would the "witch" keep targetting Nauci?

[Shoshin]

Why was Nancy voting Key on D3?

[Shoshin]

Let's wait for Mitillos to weigh in. If he's town, he'll vote Performer today. He should also claim.

[Shoshin]

I'd also like to hear from Key as to whether he was roleblocked.

[Shoshin]

This game would have been a lot easier if Koki actually confirmed himself instead of letting himself get mislynched. His read on the game state was terrible.

[Shoshin]

Varsoon claims that Zerg targeted Xtom for kill and the worst for something else. Varsoon's either scum lying about these actions or town telling the truth about them.

If Varsoon's town, then: the worst is town because scum don't target themselves, and Nancy's either town roleblocker along with the worst or she's a scum redirector who made the worst block me.

I don't think that line of logic is correct.
Zerg clearly didn't find me worth targeting with a kill.
They knew I'd learn their targets
So if they had something like a jailkeeper or watcher or other target role, it'd make sense they'd self target to throw my role off with WIFOM.

Also:
The zerg targeted Skitter30 with their factional kill, too, on N2.

That's a good point. It means it's not 100% confirming of the worst as town.

Is the action on Xtom separate from their factional kill, meaning they targeted him with a role as well as killing him?

[Shoshin]

Mitillos, claim your role in full.

[Shoshin]

Hello all.

Nauci lied yesterday, and I didn't get a chance to tell you, as the day ended before I saw it.
Nobody visited her on N2. She made the whole thing up.

VOTE: Nauci

If so, this means Nancy is scum 100% because Nancy claims to have blocked Nauci on N2. Are you saying the scum is Nauci/Nancy?

[Shoshin]

This is actually hilarious.

[Shoshin]

I guess those are scum fake claims?

[Shoshin]

VOTE: Mitillos

[Shoshin]

UNVOTE: Mitillos

I'll wait.

[Shoshin]

Nauci lied yesterday, and I didn't get a chance to tell you, as the day ended before I saw it.
Nobody visited her on N2. She made the whole thing up.

This points to both Nauci/Nancy as scum, which is suicide in the current game state. Mitillos is intentionally getting himself killed for some reason.

[Shoshin]

I dunno. I kinda doubt that Mitillos made that slip unintentionally? He doesn't strike me as the sort of player to make that mistake. I have this feeling that he's suiciding in the hopes of creating a deep wolf or keeping more valuable scum alive tonight or something.

[Shoshin]

At least we can safely lynch Mitillos knowing that we aren't losing the game.

[Shoshin]

Let's see if Nancy reevaluates her reads after this.

[Shoshin]

Other night actions AND results?

[Shoshin]

Reevaluate what exactly?

Your townread on Mitillos.

[Shoshin]

Why aren't you reevaluating based on what's probable? And why are you ignoring Mitillos's slip with different flavor claims?

[Shoshin]

We're obviously lynching Mitillos today. But let's not rush this. I still want to hear from Key before ending this day phase.

I also think Nancy should update us with her revised reads as well as explanations for those reads. I'd also like to know why she was townreading Mitillos at the start of this day phase.

[Shoshin]

I also think if the worst and Nancy are both town, it would be very helpful for them to coordinate their actions on scum instead of blocking each other. Our best hope of winning this game is stopping a nightkill.

[Shoshin]

Varsoon, please unvote.

[Shoshin]

Nancy/Key/Perf wouldn't explain why Mitillos randomly suicided as third party. He's group scum.

[Shoshin]

Nancy, please unvote. I'm not saying that Mitillos is town but I want time to discuss a few things before we got into night phase. I don't want scum hammering Mitillos before we have a chance to discuss.

[Shoshin]

I'm also waiting on Nancy to update us on her reads. Her entire view of the game should be shifting based on new understanding of Mitillos's alignment.

[Shoshin]

Let's assume Mitillos suicided unintentionally. It's still likely that Mitillos is group scum based on his slip. He was talking to someone, after all.

[Shoshin]

The only reason I see for lynching Key/Performer today is if we think there's no way we can lynch them tomorrow, which is part of why we need to have more discussion from everyone about their reads, especially Nancy.

[Shoshin]

Have we gotten flavor claims from everyone yet?

[Shoshin]

And if not, who are we missing?

[Shoshin]

A50, now that you know you were wrong about Mitillos, what's your updated reads? Are you still townreading Key? scumreading Nauci?

[Shoshin]

Why are you so opposed to lynching Key, A50? That doesn't make any sense.

[Shoshin]

Why are you so opposed to lynching Key, A50? That doesn't make any sense.

Because I'm more confident in both Mitillos and Performer now. Why go for the weakest SR when I can vote two stronger SRs?

I'm trying to understand if you scumread Key or still townread him? Do you still scumread Nauci or do you townread her after Mitillos's claim?

[Shoshin]

Our only hope for winning this game is if we stop the night kill or mafia kill the third party?

[Shoshin]

Or the Witch redirects mafia to kill itself? Unlikely, since Witch seems to be sitting on Nauci.

[Shoshin]

Why would a witch redirect Nauci again?

[Shoshin]

Still doesn't make sense to me.

[Shoshin]

I still think there's some unresolved issues related to Nancy/Varsoon.

[Shoshin]

how so?

I need to check when I have some time but something feels off about Nancy's claim in relation to Varsoon's, as well as the way Nancy reacted to Varsoon.

[Shoshin]

Take a look at how Nancy reacted to Varsoon's claim and then compare that with Nancy's role claim. It doesn't match up.

[Shoshin]

When I have time & willpower to find it again.

[Shoshin]

I could use help deciphering this:

@AlmostNancy: I think it's possible that an infested terran did a kill on N1, given we have two deaths.
I dunno what the factional makeup is like, though.
I'd bet dollars to donuts that whoever killed the PGO was some kind of BP SK though.

Yes, and after reading up some more on Starcraft, I think you’re probably right.

I’m not willing to give up the possible scumdoc theory just yet though. Once Performer flips, I think we’ll likely know that.

Anyway, my role PM says something along the lines of, there is a character in the game, who isn’t the original ____ or words to that effect.

@AlmiostNancy: Duran is a Terran who later is Infested by the Zerg, which renders him a Zerg.
Apparently, it turns out that he's a Xelnaga, which are this progenitor race that created Protoss and Zerg, I think? I'm fuzzy on the SC2 lore, having never played it.

Protoss are a mixed bag. They are at war with the Zerg, but will destroy entire planets to eradicate the Zerg there, even if Terrans are on the planet.
So naturally the Terrans fight the Protoss sometimes.
There are several different Protoss factions with their own agendas and allies and foes within the video game.

In the first game, some Protoss end up working with the Terrans to help defeat the Zerg common enemy.

Thanks for that, so my informed character flavour probably contains a terran - I think based on what I’ve read, I’m pretty sure, that the “original” in my informed flavour has to be town but now I understand that the scum version of them is a Zerg. I’m really glad I claimed now, despite unfortunately spooking you. :/ because my information won’t die with my flip and that’s the main reason I claimed. I didn’t want anyone yelling at me post-game because I held on to valuable information that could potentially help town.

Nancy says there is an "original" and a "scum version."

Except A50 claims this:

We are Sarah Kerrigan, and we are informed there's another Kerrigan in the game.

These two don't seem to match? Where's the stuff about a character who isn't the "original" Kerrigan?

[Shoshin]

Then why would Nancy say that her flavor was different from the character she was informed about?

[Shoshin]

Nancy refers to Sarah as the original Kerrigan based on her reading the wiki. I have no idea who Sarah is or what characters are in this game/show/whatever and I haven't bothered to read anything on the wiki, but I do believe there's something about Kerrigan have "phases" or something like that.

Phases? Like, the night kill going from zerg kill to bullet kill? Sounds like your character is scum.