micro 840: mystery box of silver (this is over)

[mastina]

town!
VOTE: nibbui <3 <3 <3

You wish!
VOTE: the worst.
Scum!

[mastina]

Now excuse me, let me try to mislynch town huh
VOTE: Mastina

There is no try, only do, or do not.

oooooooo mystery!!!!
VOTE: nibbui

Town

Glad to see you spew this as I fully agree.

Since you've been so cooperative, I think I'll give you my readslist!

northsidegal
Pink Ball
Nibbui
InfiniteSoda
sheepsaysmeep
skitter30
podoboq
the worst

[mastina]

Want to explain that TW scum read or not for now? Also, ain't you a bit too quick to call NSG town?

I can do both of these at the same time!
northsidegal is, 100% of the time, always town.
the worst is, 100% of the time, always scum.

Never doubt it.

[mastina]

Ok Mastina you're beginning to sound like scum!Mastina. Why is TW always 100% scum here?

If I cared about how I looked, I might put in the effort to give you a rundown here, but I honestly don't.

When I feel like telling you why the worst is scum, I will tell you.

It just doesn't feel like the right time.

I

can

force an explanation when it doesn't feel like the right time.
I vastly prefer not to.

If you can't accept that, then vote me, sure, but it'll change nothing; I'm not backing down from this. I'll explain when I feel like it, not when others dictate it. And right now I feel like being semiserious rather than fully serious, so.

[mastina]

Just getting a quick vote in during my 5-minute internet access at the public library
VOTE: Mastina

awoo

You sure?
He doesn't strike me as the type to alt.

[mastina]

[mastina]

(Then again...that

would

be his vote given our last encounter......







)

[mastina]

(

This

is what I feel like doing right now, btw.)

[mastina]

mastina do you have any past v games/can you link me to them if you do where you act in this way like "idc what you think im going to blatantly not answer your question" or smtg like that

Sure do, but frankly I play so many games that I honestly just...don't remember what happened in which games for the most part pretty much. If I spent time to :effort: in this I could probably track down at least ten such links. But it would in fact be effort.

Not helping is that pretty much the only times I've been town have been either replacements or on alts (actually even the alts are mostly replacements), so this is literally the first game where I've been town from the start in over a year. Maybe even MORE than over a year. (Also not helping? There is absolutely nothing that scumastina

can't

do. There are things she won't do, but overall, HUGE number of past games + LARGE number of scumgames--especially recently-- = most of what you'd see is pretty worthless.)

I just feel like playing this way, because it's just.

Kinda loose. And I like it.

[mastina]

goodness mastina when did you become such a comedian?

Well it was either go into comedy or go into tragedy and my life is tragic enough that I decided variety would be good.

[mastina]

Also Mastina I know you love to be somewhat scummy when you are town in order to help you in your future scum games but if you're town here you might be overdoing it a bit

You apparently have a very off impression of my playstyle if you think that is even

remotely

what I do in games.

My scumgame is strong enough on its own merit that my towngame need not be weakened in order for me to stand strong as a scum player. I am remarkably competent as scum.

It's the other way around in fact--I copy my scumgame as town, not to weaken my towngame and strengthen my scumgame. But rather. To strengthen my towngame.

You

just

saw me gamethrow by tunneling town and rapid-voting them in lylo and refusing to unvote when given the opportunity. That was in a game where I said I was not very invested.

But you're the one who literally invited me to play in this game--I am invested here. I

am

taking this game seriously.
Just...in my way.

[mastina]

I mean, you could actually just say "I don't feel like explaining right now" (I even asked "or you wouldn't like to explain right now?") but you insist on saying that you "don't care about how you look" and "Other don't dictate when I explain things" what's are some very extra lines here. Don't think it's outside of what town!Mastina can say (and I don't have a good feel on your meta anyway) but something to mull over on I guess.

Oh I could say something like that, but that would be succinct of me.

I am many things; succinct is never among them. (Well. Except for two games where I deliberately self-imposed it as a challenge. Hilariously? I got dayvigged both games D1. ) I will explain things in my own way, taking as many words as I deem necessary to get the right message across. It might help your understanding of me for you to know that I am autistic; I don't process information in a normal way.

My brain is literally hardwired so that the simple solution/words people use, aren't what I know. I know the long way. I know numerous different things, not helped by crossing the streams. I've learned to harness this power, to make the most of it, accept it as a part of me, utilize its advantages, but sorry to disappoint you if you were expecting me to be a beacon of coolness.

i feel like you're purposefully not answering questions or trying to help people understand what you're thinking

Of course I'm not answering questions.

If I felt like answering questions, I would be answering questions.

If I wanted people to understand what I was thinking, I would make effort to make them understand what I am thinking.

But I don't want to make that effort, for a specific reason.

This is actually the most serious thing I've said.
I've been messing around a lot, I've been just talking, having some fun, being casual, while dropping hints, while giving some semblance of an idea of what I mean, but to be dead serious and drop the jokiness altogether.
I'm wanting people to do a few particular things, mostly related (I almost said "one particular thing" before realizing it's not actually just one), but which take time and this strategy to go about with.

[mastina]

i do want to know why she's so certain you're scum tho because i'm not feeling it rn

I'm looking for Nibbui's response to this btw because Nibbui should have a mindset on it.

I think Mastina saying "TW is scum, 100% of the time here" is more alignment indicative than her whole attitude about explaining it or not tbh.

You are right!
That is one of the most alignment indicative things I have said.
You are also wrong!
You seemed to be reading my statement that "the worst is scum, 100% of the time" as an indicator of confidence--

it wasn't

.

You have a really big hint now what I'm getting at now, yes?

[mastina]

northsidegal is, 100% of the time, always town.
the worst is, 100% of the time, always scum.

What I am specifically saying is that you need to reread this and think of it from a different perspective.
This was not a statement that northsidegal is 100% town this game and that the worst is 100% scum this game.

I may get my words messed up when I'm not particularly fluent (like right now, kinda not-lucid), but by and large? Exact words are a favorite of mine; I mean exactly what I say.

[mastina]

If you're actually serious though I'll trust you have something good on mind if you're town.

Oh I do, trust me.
Right now my mind is working at a million miles an hour, and I have a feeling of "I got this".

The problem is that by the time I come to explain that, it'll have crashed and burned and I'll be sifting through the wreckage going, "I KNOW I had this brilliant strategy/plan/thought, but...I can't remember it, dammit!" leading to you being underwhelmed.

That incidentally is also a succinct demonstration of an answer for why I copy my scumgame; no need to wait until postgame for me to tell you that's what I mean--my scumgame has scum PTs so I can document and record the important stuff whereas when town I don't, even though I could use one right now.

Basically, yes, I do have something good on my mind right now, but I can't figure out a way to explain it right now without ruining it, and I'm terrified that by the time I can, I'll have lost it.

[mastina]

alignment talk aside I like Mastina's surreal posts. It's kind of unique really, I can't remember having seen anyone have a similar playstyle and I find her walls entertaining.

I've been practicing this for ten years; I've refined it to an art.

I actually advised Gamma on some tips recently which make use of what I've more or less mastered.

If you can call verbosity something that's a skill, at least. (Basically, there's tricks to wordflow. I make heavy use of alliteration and rhymes, but not just "one word starts with c, another word also starts with c"; it can be different ones altogether which just are similar. For instance, the syllable of 'one' is similar to the syllable of 'which' in mouthing, so the effect is there. I've done it for so long that it's become subconscious. Word vomit it may be, but it's

smartly done

word vomit. Most of the time. )

wait is it just a pun? also are you perhaps cutely-badmouthing tw in a cute way? and it all being a reaction test?

At least one of these is on the right track!

I think i c wat u did thar mastina but I'll be holding my silence

I appreciate the sentiment, but do tell within like. 48 hours or so.

[mastina]

MOD:

I can't post today, and if work makes me feel the same way I do right now, tomorrow, then I can't post tomorrow, either.

Trust me, the toxicity I feel right now is best kept out of thread, and I can't manage that in my current state.

Suffice to say.
I've had a bad day.

[mastina]

Alright, am back. I think I'm calm enough to do this without ranting (especially since there's nothing in this game to my knowledge that'd tick me off), but alas. I regret to inform you that the whimsical feeling of messing around isn't with me right now--I actually feel like being completely serious right now, so gimme a sec, I'll be explaining what I was doing and then catch up on all the pages I've yet to read (which I think is like...30. ).

[mastina]

northsidegal
Pink Ball
Nibbui
InfiniteSoda
sheepsaysmeep
skitter30
podoboq
the worst

This was in fact a serious readslist, for a start--at the time that it was posted, I had read up to that point but pretty much everything past the first page, my eyes had glossed over, not really properly processing so much as just scanning, reading, and that was that. But I still had an

awareness

of all 113 prior posts. Yet this was still made in the context of, "from the first page, pretty much, supported loosely by the following".

northsidegal is, 100% of the time, always town. the worst is, 100% of the time, always scum.

Never doubt it.

When people quoted this, they seemed to forget the most important part of the quote--the bolded. The bolded phrase here, "never doubt it". Is never something said seriously--it's a deadpan snark. I was referring specifically to how, 100% of the time, no matter how much you may think she's scum, northsidegal is pretty much always 100% of the time actually town. With an undertone of how even when she is scum, she is

still

town.

It then figures that the same was true of the worst--I was referring to how, disproportionately, the worst draws scum role PMs time and time again, and is almost always the last anti-town that the town is suspicious of. Yet when he is town, people tend to still think he is scum, especially me, in part due to paranoia of knowing just how good his scumgame can be. So it can be said that, no matter how much you may think he's town, he's scum, 100% of the time, even if his role PM says otherwise.

...But

in spite of that

.

My vote was placed on the worst--if this were 100% a joke read, I'd not have done that, and kept it there.

town!
VOTE: nibbui <3 <3 <3

You wish!
VOTE: the worst.
Scum!

My readslist, as I mentioned, was based primarily on the first page, albeit subsidized partially by the later pages. (You were meant to think it was entirely from the first page, and I'm surprised nobody made that callout--I was quoting something from the first page when I made the readslist and I

usually

read chronologically, so that means that USUALLY I am quoting as far as I've read. So I was EXPECTING someone to think I was on the first page, even though in the case of this game, I wasn't. But I digress. MY POINT WAS...)

The reason for these reads, if you look at it, is pretty self-evident:

first! hello all!

@mod: regular vla on fridays/saturdays

VOTE: nibbui

This was an entirely clinical RVS entrance--it is constructed, rather than organic. There was an overall lack of whimsy to it, and no real lighthearted touch. However, skitter is a more logical-type player, so while I wasn't fond of it, I recognized that because of who made the post, it wasn't as scum-indicative as I'd otherwise be inclined to think. This still earned skitter a low place on my readslist, below the nulline, but only just.

15 days because of Assorted Holiday

Thanks for that. Probably not gonna be here until Wednesday. As such, not gonna RVS. Happy holidays peeps. See you in a few days.

This felt worse than skitter's entrance because it was even more clinical, and yet lacked the personality justification. podoboq is not a player I'd associate with that more "constructed" style of play when town, and would be someone I'd actually describe as a northsidegal-type of inquisitive: pushing forward, but lighthearted when doing so. This just felt entirely too serious, and he felt the need to correct a typo by making a follow-through post. It showed that he was paying close enough attention to realize he made a mistake, and yet, I'm meant to believe he wasn't paying close enough attention to form any sort of RVS? That he wouldn't be around for a couple of days was no excuse; you can always remove an RVS vote when you get back if need be.

You shouldn't suddenly wagon me like that because I almost thought someone already had a Night 0 guilty on me! Please don't scare me like that, I get very tense as scum even for silly reasons.
Now excuse me, let me try to mislynch town huh

*I* might be this cheeky as a scumfuck, but Nibbui doesn't strike me as the type. This felt incredibly lighthearted and whimsical, to the point of being incredibly town. I felt that this was an incredibly natural way to respond to the page 1 pressure. A casual joke, one which felt entirely appropriate for the phase of the game at the time.

The analysis followthrough in 14 is more or less the type I'd expect from Nibbui as well. It is precisely the strength I'd expect, it is precisely the method I'd expect, it is just as hard as I'd expect, just as light as I'd expect, just as casual as I'd expect. Entirely fluent, organic, natural analysis of the situation at hand, but not putting too much stock in it. I also loved this banter:

Pink Ball I know we planned for you to claim cop and have a guilty on me in the scum chat but it leave it to later really
maybe in day 2 or something

SPEAKING OF PINK BALL THO:

You shouldn't suddenly wagon me like that because I almost thought someone already had a Night 0 guilty on me!

I have a Night 0 guilty on this guy

This

instantly

made me think town. I didn't need to see the full interaction to make the conclusion; this alone was enough. That type of casual lighthearted fun was immensely town, but when paired with the actual vote, all the better--and there were in fact good reasons to vote the worst!

town!
VOTE: nibbui <3 <3 <3

I quoted this post because the worst's focus on being town felt overly forced, and his vote on Nibbui felt like it was uncreative and unoriginal. It was just kinda...there. 10 was also forced, being a second-rate imitation of my patented town town? scum? scum style of introductory reads. 13 felt like fluff that was meant to look like the worst was doing something when he wasn't, messing around under the illusion of content. I didn't think the worst would be scum with skitter due to 22, but I did think that interaction painted the worst as more likely to be scum and Nibbui as a beacon of township (especially in tandem with 21). 24 was also ridiculously forced as well; it was blatantly obvious that it was forcing scumminess to be there where there was none to be found, and yet I detected absolutely no hint of self-awareness about this: no glint of being whimsical about it, that he knew he was BSing.

oooooooo mystery!!!!
VOTE: nibbui

northsidegal's entrance

screamed

town. She was incredibly whimsical, unafraid to be the third vote on a wagon, and seemed like she was, genuinely, having a good time.

So that was the bulk of where I was coming from, though I still have more to address.

[mastina]

i do want to know why she's so certain you're scum tho because i'm not feeling it rn

I'm looking for Nibbui's response to this btw because Nibbui should have a mindset on it.

I think Mastina saying "TW is scum, 100% of the time here" is more alignment indicative than her whole attitude about explaining it or not tbh.

You are right!
That is one of the most alignment indicative things I have said.
You are also wrong!
You seemed to be reading my statement that "the worst is scum, 100% of the time" as an indicator of confidence--

it wasn't

.
You have a really big hint now what I'm getting at now, yes?

So given what I just explained, you'll have a better idea of where this was coming from, especially when paired with:

northsidegal is, 100% of the time, always town. the worst is, 100% of the time, always scum.

What I am specifically saying is that you need to reread this and think of it from a different perspective. This was not a statement that northsidegal is 100% town this game and that the worst is 100% scum this game.
Exact words are a favorite of mine; I mean exactly what I say.

(I did

not

say "100% town

this game

". I said "100% town", without specifying this game--thus, it was not a statement specific to this game.)

wait is it just a pun? also are you perhaps cutely-badmouthing tw in a cute way? and it all being a reaction test?

At least one of these is on the right track!

You

just

saw me gamethrow by tunneling town and rapid-voting them in lylo and refusing to unvote when given the opportunity. That was in a game where I said I was not very invested.
But you're the one who literally invited me to play in this game--I am invested here. I

am

taking this game seriously.
Just...in my way.

^This one in particular. The game in question is Open 741: Red Flag, a game the worst and northsidegal also would share familiarity with.
Fun fact about that game is that I replaced into the worst's slot, thinking it was a scum slot.
But what I am particularly getting at is, in the game in question, I explained in great length my mindset on my approach to scumreads:

are these unusually confident reads for you, or do you always do this?

Complicated, not a yes-or-no question, and the only way to address it is to talk about non-game stuff. In short, answer's irrelevant to the game,

Spoiler: ...But if you insist on having an answer......

The answer is both yes, and no.
I wrote an article explaining half of the concept, and never finished my article explaining the other half.
The article I wrote explaining one half of this is Possibilities versus Probabilities.

In there, I basically explain how always, I am at war with myself.
At every single second.
I am imagining every single possible possibility.
You may think that's not possible; there's a ton of possibilities. With 4/10 players as scum, there are...how many unique combos? Is it as simple as 400? But no matter what the exact number, there's a lot.

So I couldn't possibly calculate them all, every second, right?

Except I do, and I do it even when not at the keyboard.
At work.
When eating.
When taking a shower.
At all times I think of the game, I am considering every single possible outcome.
For instance, at the most extreme: "What if every single one of my townreads were in fact the scumteam?"

I run through these, every second.
With every piece of new information, I run through them again. And again. And again.

Paranoia is crippling.
Doubt is overwhelming.
I never know what my reads are.
I can never truly be certain of them, because every time I feel good, suddenly, a new thought crops up and makes me think I could be wrong again.

Thus, the concept of probabilities.

I had to install a filter to function in games. Even if the correct combination is deemed a possibility rather than probability and thus tossed out, it was inherently a necessary move for me to be able to be of

any

use in a game. I weigh the scenarios, and put active thought into sorting them, off of what I know.

Some become less likely than others; others become more likely.

And while I can rarely if ever narrow in on the exact correct one, I can get closer to the correct one. Just by sifting through with the filter, discarding the ones which look unlikely and violate occam's razor, and accepting the ones which are simpler, make more sense, fit the facts better, and overall just "feel" like they're the case.

That is the balance of possibilities, and probabilities; the probabilities are the town player's friend, and the possibilities are the enemy.

But there's a second half to that, the unpublished result of this philosophy.

I have to have a way to both advance the gamestate, and yet be able to step back and reevaluate when necessary.

This is what I refer to as the "Theory of Pushing", in my notes, with the basic philosophy of...

"I need to push, and push HARD".

I push the probabilities I see, and push them hard. I keep pushing them, and pushing them--until I am no longer certain they are probabilities, until I think that instead of a probability, they are just a possibility. (Okay, small break from my ramble for a game note.)

This is game-relevant, because this is in the process of happening with RC; it hasn't fully shifted yet, but it's at the point where I am certainly uncertain of it being a probability at the very least.

...But back to being non-game-relevant...
This leads to the perception that I am arrogant, or at the very least, overconfident. I seemingly get confirmation bias, apparently--allegedly--never reevaluating, keeping my push going on the same targets.

But I am doing so for a very good reason. Because I am always, at every turn. Looking to be proven wrong. At every turn, I am reevaluating. And while most of the time, I reevaluate and go, "You know...I still feel the same way I did before.", sometimes, I really

do

shift my opinion.

I push, and push, and state things as absolutes even if they are not, because when I am doing so, I am advancing the gamestate, in my own unique way. The interactions I generate can be just as useful if not more, than my original push. Seeing how people react to my push can be just as valuable a thing as seeing how my target responds to the push.

It's altogether a way of trying to make the most out of uncertainty and doubt, of crippling bipolar shifts between extremes of doubt and certainty.

So yes, I am always confident, but no; I am never actually confident.
Yet the two don't contradict.

In the case of this game, I would say the best answer I have to give you is thus:
I am as sure as I can be,

given who I am

, that Gamma Emerald and AnonymousGhost are scum.
You won't get better than that in any game I ever play in.

I got the impression Nibbui had read that post--because Nibbui's invitation for me to play this game implied having been impressed with my process and wanting to see more.

This is also why I wanted the worst to explain--if he did know where I was coming from, he'd have been able to explain this; if he was just bullshitting, then he'd be wildly off-base.

[mastina]

And to properly go through the stuff that I skipped:

i've never played with her

Not so. We've played together on multiple occasions. Just because you don't remember it doesn't mean they didn't happen. I'd go search for them but they may involve alts so I'll just leave it as a generic "I have in fact played with you".

Also.

I read basically every Normal game, which I know you've played some of.

And I am involved in the moderation of some other games (mostly large themes), so I see you there, too.

You're not exactly someone I know intimately to soulreading levels, but you're far from someone I have no familiarity with. With the exception of Pink Ball, I've got extensive experience with every single player in this game. (Even if they don't realize it.)

mastina and I have played together 2? times I think (not discussing alts etc. etc.)

Pretending experience on alts doesn't count does you no favors. It absolutely does--and so, too, does my experience in games where I am not a player but am indirectly involved. (For instance, the aforementioned every-Normal-ever and many theme games.)

I mean, yeah, I play differently on alts than I do my main, and I do appreciate them not being outed--but pretending the experience doesn't exist is fallacious because the experience still forms a part of

my

view on players.

his confidence in thread and lamist ish attitude/how much he's engaging with me is really prominent in all his v games and it feels exactly like this

While my read on sheep is thoroughly meh, this meta is accurate in my experience. The way Nibbui is going around this game is precisely what I'd expect of him as town, albeit with the caveat that I don't actually have any knowledge that I can recollect of Nibbui's scum meta, so I can only speak for half the picture. (In other words, the meta read's weakened by me not being able to properly distinguish between playstyle tells and towntells, but is still matching the town games to a T, if that makes sense.)

Just getting a quick vote in during my 5-minute internet access at the public library
VOTE: Mastina

This was an utter wash as far as entrances go. It was fairly difficult for me to get a read on it. Him and sheep are, obviously, the strong points of null. sheep, due to having a complete mind numb on read (I read sheep's posts and utterly glossed over them, unable to really process them with an alignment in mind); him, due to this just being...there. It's not really something I'd say is scum, but it's also not something which screams town.

/lazyposting
{nsg}
{tw, sheep}
{skitter}
{everyone else}
{nibbui}

This readslist was exactly what she said it was: lazy. It's a pretty terrible readslist, but alignment-wise my thought on it was that it was completely and entirely, 100%, not alignment indicative either way. Given my prior townread on nsg tho, it wasn't really worth bringing up.

When I saw her interact with Nibbui more, I thought it was a fairly town-town interaction on both sides, tho--but because both were already topping my townreads

anyway

, I didn't really feel like emphasizing the fact.

When I say someone is town, I tend not to put special emphasis on them being town past that point--the sole exception to this is if the player I am calling town is at risk of being lynched. If they are close to being lynched, then, obviously, I need to emphasize why they are town to dissuade that outcome, but other than that, my feeling is mostly a "said once, then done". I said nsg and Nibbui were town, I was done.
(Scumreads, on the other hand--keep pushing them until they no longer are.)

Along the same lines:

Oops spoilers, I should've used the spoiler tag for that, sorry

Pink Ball has been a townread and this line of posting only strengthened it further.

This is the lucidity I was lookin for last night
Did we roll t/t again? <3

If I had been playing seriously at the time I read this, I may have been able to explain why this felt scum, because I remember rather clearly being icked out by this, but I can't remember why--the feeling is still there, tho. It feels

wrong

.

I'm not really in the mood to talk thru my view on rvs but I feel Nibbui is a little lukewarm on pg3
it's towny tho and not bad just..ok

This one, too.

^^^^ the already gives off the connotation that a guilty wouldn't be the wrong result, that you kinda think that there's a possibility that this may happen in the future
i'm aware that i'm reading into connotations but that's the vibe that it gave off to me and i'm trying to articulate what exactly was bothering me about it

wolves (Nibbui's scumstyle being a classic example) edit around stuff like this in opening posts as a major rvs junkie this post is like, NAI / maybe 1% town indicative

Just getting a quick vote in during my 5-minute internet access at the public library
VOTE: Mastina

awoo

These, however, I remember my issue. It's splitting the difference. Trying to have the best of both worlds. It's not all lighthearted fluff, but it's not all seriousness, yet there's no magical blend of the two. They're separate from one another. There's a magical formula, call it whimsy, call it whatever, where one can be both serious and lighthearted at the same time, yet with the worst here, the seriousness is separated from the lighthearted, and that divide between the two is something I'd expect to see in him as scum.

Look at all of his posting on that page.
There is a grand total of one which doesn't suffer from that problem.
Can you find it?

(VVV It's not this post btw. VVV)

{Nibbui}
{podoboq, Punk Bill, mastina} = null
{InfiniteSoda, nsg}

These reads were also, overall, fairly noncontroversial and ridiculously safe to make. (Skitter was potentially arguably an easy read to have, but, eh. Benefit of the doubt, we'll say that wasn't a safe read even though that conclusion is debatable. The only unambiguously unusual read there was sheep as town in my opinion.)

Everyone was lining up to scumread northsidegal.
Everyone was going to townread Nibbui given like five pages.
Infinite Soda was an easy scumread to take.
podoboq and Pink Bill are both obvious nulls to take as well--the only non-obvious null there is myself, and that can easily be explained by being afraid to sort me the wrong way. (I am equally skilled at picking up erroneous townreads and scumreads. Which, ironically. Makes it an easy to pick out erroneous nullread, but I digress.)

So pretty much an entire readslist filled with safe calls--when northsidegal posted a lazy readslist, it was nothing compared to this one. Because this one is all-around entirely lazy and unoriginal.

That being said--there was, on the next page. A single glimmer of what I was looking for from a town the worst. If I saw more of it, I'd be convinced he was town, but with it only in the one post, it's not something he can't do as scum. (Albeit, not intentionally--the thing I am thinking about is a thing which looks town that he as scum wouldn't have intentionally done and would've done entirely by accident, thus why it wouldn't be replicatable.)

There's also a second town indicator, but of the type which is fakeable.

And the page after contains more content which might be a town indicator, but of a

different type

of can-be-done-as-scum.

Basically.

There's like 3, 4 different types of town-looking content that scum can make--a player making one in overwhelming quantities is an indicator that they aren't scum; a player making more than one in large quantities is indicative of them being town; a player making one of each type--but

not

making more than one or two of each type--is not something that indicates town, because a well-rounded scum player will always hit some of their town notes, in limited quantities.

And quantity is the problem I am talking about--there are aspects of town in the worst's posting, but none so strongly overwhelming as to be something beyond his scum range.
And I see evidence of his scumplay strewn about.

So that catches me up to 241.

The rest is new content for me.

[mastina]

@mastina I think I kinda said a less elaborate version of what I was thinking but lmk if you want some elaboration

I did in fact want this.

To clarify: I don't think I solved the game, that's a joke. But now that I'm caught up I can go with those sweet interactions. I have no solid reads right now, since we still have InfiniteSoda and podoboq not playing at that could change everything. I mean, I think people have talked about InfiniteSoda not being here but nothing about podoboq, so that could mean something, right? I don't like sheep's way of playing and that could influence my read on him. duckling is too damn cute to be real.

My readlist would go something like:
{Nibbui} townread
{mastina; skitter; NSG} townlean (in that order)
{InfiniteSoda, podoboq} Null
{the worst; sheep} scumlean
{-}scumread

This is a god-tiered post.

> preflip associatives
> one dimensional meta tells
> "i'm playing different from my scumgame ERGO"

this might actually be town but god our playstyles are not compatible at all, i'm going to let someone else sort you for me

in the interim what do you like about nsg and what part of mastina's play so far has been notably towny to you?
are you townreading nibbui independently or is it just based on jank pre-flip associatives?

The opposite of a god-tiered post is of course a trash-tiered post, and this would be that!

[mastina]

Can we policy lynch him?

The only policy lynch I'll accept is one where we make it a policy to lynch scum*.

*

Granted a lack of multiball that is because fuck policy-lynching nontown for being nontown when they are trying to help the town. >_> <_<

[mastina]

idk what to do tw's policy lynch post is definitely pretty bad yeah

Pretty much!

i'm so in 'gottem mode' because i think nsg is uncharacteristically caught zzz

You think you've caught nsg. And yet...

willing to policy {bunk bill, infinitesoda} because i cbf reading thru bill's irritating bravado and rhetoric
think wolves are more like {nsg, ???}
VOTE: nsg

Are willing to lynch two players who if town would place us in lylo, instead of her.

Holy shit, guys. I guess I'm starting my read now. I'll post thoughts as I go. Gonna have to take a break for lunch in a bit.

This was a terrible entrance.

[mastina]

Since you've been so cooperative, I think I'll give you my readslist!

northsidegal
Pink Ball
Nibbui
InfiniteSoda
sheepsaysmeep
skitter30
podoboq
the worst

Is this a joke? Soda and I had said literally nothing of value.

VOTE: podoboq.
I know this is not the first time you've seen this style of readslist, where off of seemingly nothing, there is a readslist.
You have played in games featuring that before, rather prominently in fact, and pretending you're not familiar with it won't work because I can hunt them down rather easily. I KNOW you know better than to think this.

Paired with the rather terrible catch-up overall.

I'm actually feeling much, much stronger on podoboq being scum than I am on the worst--which really says something.

[mastina]

{sheep}
{skitter30, Nibbui}
{the worst}
{Pink Ball}
{mastina} NULL
{InfiniteSoda, northsidegal}

Funny.

This list looks strangely familiar......

{tw}
{sheepy}
{Nibbui}
{}
{skitter}
{podoboq, Punk Bill, mastina} = null
{InfiniteSoda, nsg}
{}so forth

[mastina]

I'm mafia irl probably

Honestly feel that the worst-podoboq interactions are scum-scum. That banter just altogether has the aura of scum theater to it, where neither is really putting their heart into the interaction with the other.

[mastina]

So I've read through 20, but I'm pretty sure I need to stop reading right now because I'm glossing over everything and not really thinking critically at this point. I'm just.
Scroll. Scroll. Scroll. Scroll scroll scroll. Scroll.

I'm reading, I'm just not really. Processing, if you know what I mean. So this'll be it for now.

[mastina]

whatever nibbui's been doing these last two pages feels textbook twtbw

Right idea.
Wrong user.

[mastina]

VOTE: sheepsaysmeep

I'm 100% sure this is scum right now.

We're lynching between me and sheep by the way because I've a lot of confidence in this read.

Oo, cool, finally something for me to disagree with. What in the world are you scumreading about sheep?

I feel like having a negative read on sheep is easy if you're not informed of his alignment like it seems a certain couple of individuals are with their placements.

maybe you and sheep are partners tbh
or maybe sheep with the duck.

Both of these are half-right, but you've got the wrong half to focus on. Like.

so the order is basically "sheep > podoboq > duck".

This is what earned you the N1 nightkill last game.

[mastina]

[Nibbui] - town
[--] - town lean
[Pink Ball, Skitter, NSG] - nulltown
[tw, mastina, infinite soda, podoroq] - null
[--] - nullscum
[--] - scum lean
[sheepsaysmeep] - scum

Oof I don't like this

You wouldn't, since it makes Nibbui insanely obvtown to the point where any protective role claiming a protection other than Nibbui is scumclaiming, and happens to point suspicion in the correct direction--a direction you don't want things to be taken.

VOTE: the worst
oh look duck is scum for real

Indeed he is! His reaction only makes it more obvious. This is how he reacts when he's made a plan, only to have it blow up in his face due to the actions of another player.

[mastina]

as scum I probably wouldn't pick NSG for a d1 lynch, would probably have tried to get a townread out of skitter via real-time interactions, would probably treat you fairly differently to the last time I was scum vs. town you, probably would have avoided engaging with mastina categorically, and I think I'd be less likely to be coming around on Punk Bill and bqpdbqb

Odd.

It seems to me that most of what you're describing as what you'd be doing as scum.
Is exactly what you've been doing.
Voting and having an early push on NSG does not a lynch make and you have since moved off, proving the point.
You haven't really engaged me.
And your stances are slow to move.

exasperated

I've no doubt about this but also see no reason for it to carry alignment. Being scumread by obvtown is exasperating equally as town and scum--for different reasons, but the emotion produced is identical regardless.

[mastina]

I'm feeling like we might need lynch mastina if she doesn't town up because of PoE.

My job is to hunt and lynch scum, not look town.

Looking town is what scum do; lynching scum is what town do.

General rule of thumb, offense comes over defense. I refuse to defend myself against accusations I know aren't true, when I can better use my time to make accusations of my own, which with luck on my side, would be true.

If everyone is looking town to you, then you need to reassess your metrics for what is town--because they are obviously off. If everyone is looking town to you, then you know you're wrong; you need to fundamentally reevaluate what holds actual alignment weight.

The metric I use, I posted already:

There's like 3, 4 different types of town-looking content that scum can make--a player making one in overwhelming quantities is an indicator that they aren't scum; a player making more than one in large quantities is indicative of them being town; a player making one of each type--but

not

making more than one or two of each type--is not something that indicates town, because a well-rounded scum player will always hit some of their town notes, in limited quantities.

And quantity is the problem I am talking about--there are aspects of town in the worst's posting, but none so strongly overwhelming as to be something beyond his scum range.
And I see evidence of his scumplay strewn about.

If a user is producing a type of content which is town in

overwhelming

quantities, it is a fairly safe, reasonable bet that odds are they are town.
If a user is producing a few different types of content which are town in a significant quantity, it is basically all-but assured that they are town.

If a user produces a few sporadic, inconsistent, random pings which look town, but are otherwise overwhelmingly showing evidence otherwise.
That is not town, most of the time.
It is okay if you don't have any real reads to initially use weaker sort methods--and if those weaker sort methods give you a clear direction, great! Hone in on it, refine it, and find what makes them real.

But if your initial weaker sort methods are self-evidently, obviously flawed, then what you need to do is cast them out and start over with a new method that

does

work.

I said it to you last game, and I mean it this time, too.
I genuinely feel like your largest weakness as a player is that you lack conviction--you come to the right conclusion, but talk yourself out of it down the line because of doubt, because of some weak thing that you thought indicated something when it didn't. Reassessing can and is a strength, and I feel that it is your greatest one...but it is only a strength when correctly timed.

A correctly timed reevaluation can fundamentally shift the game in the direction it needs to go; wrongly timed reassessments will fundamentally shift the game in the direction of a mislynch.

maybe you're scum that thought I was scum reading you for the "wrong reasons"

Like this. This is a good thing to have seen. the worst was exasperated, and I've no reason to doubt that; I fully believe it. But I also firmly believe that the worst's exasperation at being scumread came from "I'm scum but not because of that, dammit!". (Even though to some extent I feel he

is

scum because of that.)

Reading the same four slots going back and forth Is giving me the false illusion that everybody's town right now

Effort != alignment. If you think that everyone posting is town, then you need to fundamentally rethink how you are reading players because activity != alignment. If you are townreading everyone that is talking, chances are you have a wrong townread because most of the time there is going to be scum talking.

[mastina]

sheep who is scum along with NSG and don't say infinitesoda

That's another thing.

I think I am literally the

only

player.

In the entire fucking game.

Who has a clear scumteam theory.

My scumteam is two individuals--never more, never less.
My scumteam is two individual scumreads...but

also

involves their interactions with each other.
the worst isn't just scum because he's scum; he's scum because of his whole way of treating the podoboq slot.
podoboq isn't just scum because he's scum; he's scum because of his whole way of treating the worst.

Can anyone else produce a coherent team of two?

If you can't.
News for you.

Your scumreads are at least 50% wrong.

Nibbui's come the closest to this, by calling out sheep-the worst, or sheep-podoboq, but the sheep scumread was apparently a reaction. I still maintain that had Nibbui focused on the other half, the correct conclusion would have presented itself.

[mastina]

Btw, skitter's 722 is the first post of skitter's which I've had any feeling on at all, pretty much--and it was positive. I liked it; it wasn't something stellar, but it made me feel loosely town there. 724 actually gives me similarly good vibes, too.

[mastina]

Yes, I’m townreading you here for that wall post.

Speaking of bad initial weaker sort methods......

[mastina]

Would Mastina ever try to be intentionally scummy as town or is it more likely to be scum WIFOM?

Why is it.
That people keep on saying.
I said I was intentionally trying to be scummy.

When I said no fucking such thing.

At any point in the game.

And said the opposite.
That I do no such thing.
Multiple times.

Copying my scumgame as town does not equate to acting scummy as town--it's

the opposite

. You know what my flowchart says? Effectively, on D1? "If mastina looks town...

lynch her; she's scum

." Because my scumgame is better than my towngame at looking town. My scumgame is more logical than my towngame. My scumgame is more precise, clean, altogether held together, than my towngame. My towngame is a mess, chaotic, hectic, altogether not well-designed.

So as town, I strive to replicate the successful aspects of my scumgame: the calm, collected, cool presence who retains control of the game in a logical way that is reasonably town appearing.

That

is what I mean when I say as town I try to mimic my scumgame.

Which is the furthest thing possible from trying to act scummy as town. I am no user of Slayer's Gambit.

Idk why Mastina’s pushing tw but I’m not liking it, so I’m probably going to vote there. This is obviously tw’s towngame here.

You're not liking it because your reasons for townreading the worst are absolute shit and given enough time I'll be able to tell you precisely why. This is the worst's scumgame here.

[mastina]

I'm quite surprised that podoboq is above sheep. Why the need to drop sheep so much when you had a more consistent read on him since early?
Also, do you feel that podoboq is towny enough to be that high?

These can be answered by "the worst is scum, pocketing you".

His read on sheep is mirroring your sentiment that this isn't outside of sheep's scumgame.

[mastina]

let's guess my alignment in each these games! ^^^^^

No need, because you're only proving my point?
My point was that it was an entrance that I'd normally think was more likely to be from scum, but

having familiarity with you

meant that I didn't think it was. The reading of "just below the null line" was more or less "I'd lynch there if desperate, but wouldn't be happy with it".

also where does your impression of my game stem from?

From endless numbers of games?

[mastina]

i don't know why you think this game is 'precisely what you'd expect of him as town'; it's kinda subjective and like i don't really know how to translate this into how *i* read people if that makes sense

Well I don't know how to help because I don't understand the confusion to be had. Nibbui is playing this game precisely how I'd expect Nibbui to play as town. I don't know how that'd be in any way subjective or ambiguous. It's exactly what it says.

I thought your readslist was used to reaction test NSG.

I do place people in spots higher than warranted on occasion, but that honor is usually reserved for players who're like soulreads and I can use it before said soulread has developed on them as a reaction test to gain the real read. Usually, you can trust: what you see is what you've got.

I loathe deception in reads. Sure, misdirection in roleclaims is all fine and good, but lying about a read is a bordeline cardinal sin of townplay. So when you see a scumread, it is a real scumread; when you see a townread, it is a real townread.

find a scumgame of mastina's (e.g. mini theme encore mafia now without cults by KittyMo) and read the opening few scum pt posts by mastina, she Knows All

If mastina actually knows all, then she's misrepping me. I think it's more reasonable to say that mastina thinks she knows all.

Why, after having noted that I could be misrepping you, do you instead conclude that I am town that is wrong?

Basically, what I'm saying here is: in spite of me having multiple times displayed content which podoboq has noted a distaste for, he has gone for a stance on me implying I'm town. It's cognitive dissonance.

As a person who hasn't played on site in a long time, and doesn't usually play more than one game at a time, all this talk of meta is going from mildly annoying to seriously frustrating.

This is also doing nothing openly. Active lurking. There's a lack of contribution here altogether.

[mastina]

What the fuck are you guys reading? This isn't David Sedaris we're talking about. This is just an atrocious scumhunter.

Again.
Why an atrocious scumhunter and not possible scum?

podoboq is, consistently, treating me as town, for no reason whatsoever.

To a lesser extent, the worst shows similar:

@podoboq I don't know 'cause I haven't played with here, but I love her playstyle. Only by reading her catch up I feel more wise as a person. Just think about it: if she's town, the way she reads the thread is outstanding; if she's scum, even better.

correct
(but she's also sometimes horrifically wrong and tunnels hard)

...But it's not nearly as strong as podoboq is doing.

Nancy hits the point on the head:

Are you finding fault with her play in general or just this game? This criticism seems kind of over the top?

Are you reading her as bad town here?

At last check, the worst wasn't and podoboq wasn't. Neither were townreading me and yet both have this critical stance of me.

Even when podoboq acknowledges that I could be scum...

If mastina is infallible at this game, then she's just scum, and I should just vote her. If she's prone to being exceptionally wrong, then she's probably just exceptionally wrong.

Why are these the only two extremes? Why is it "infallible = scum" or "not infallible = just wrong"? Again, I'm not a townread, so why is me being wrong something that if I'm not infallible makes me town?

[mastina]

Podoboq is considerably town

Why?

Everything podoboq has done has been scum.

There's not a hint of town to be had. The only things not indicative of scum are null stuff not indicating

any

alignment.

why Podoboq is scummy and don't say because of his RVS post

I've been telling you why the whole time.

Holy shit, guys. I guess I'm starting my read now. I'll post thoughts as I go. Gonna have to take a break for lunch in a bit.

This was a terrible entrance.

Since you've been so cooperative, I think I'll give you my readslist!

northsidegal
Pink Ball
Nibbui
InfiniteSoda
sheepsaysmeep
skitter30
podoboq
the worst

Is this a joke? Soda and I had said literally nothing of value.

VOTE: podoboq.
I know this is not the first time you've seen this style of readslist, where off of seemingly nothing, there is a readslist.
You have played in games featuring that before, rather prominently in fact, and pretending you're not familiar with it won't work because I can hunt them down rather easily. I KNOW you know better than to think this.

Paired with the rather terrible catch-up overall.

{sheep}
{skitter30, Nibbui}
{the worst}
{Pink Ball}
{mastina} NULL
{InfiniteSoda, northsidegal}

Funny.

This list looks strangely familiar......

{tw}
{sheepy}
{Nibbui}
{}
{skitter}
{podoboq, Punk Bill, mastina} = null
{InfiniteSoda, nsg}
{}so forth

VOTE: sheepsaysmeep

I'm 100% sure this is scum right now.

We're lynching between me and sheep by the way because I've a lot of confidence in this read.

Oo, cool, finally something for me to disagree with. What in the world are you scumreading about sheep?

I feel like having a negative read on sheep is easy if you're not informed of his alignment like it seems a certain couple of individuals are with their placements.

maybe you and sheep are partners tbh
or maybe sheep with the duck.

Both of these are half-right, but you've got the wrong half to focus on. Like.

so the order is basically "sheep > podoboq > duck".

This is what earned you the N1 nightkill last game.

sheep who is scum along with NSG and don't say infinitesoda

That's another thing. I think I am literally the

only

player. In the entire fucking game. Who has a clear scumteam theory.

My scumteam is two individual scumreads...but

also

involves their interactions with each other.
the worst isn't just scum because he's scum; he's scum because of his whole way of treating the podoboq slot.
podoboq isn't just scum because he's scum; he's scum because of his whole way of treating the worst.

Nibbui's come the closest to this, by calling out sheep-the worst, or sheep-podoboq, but the sheep scumread was apparently a reaction. I still maintain that had Nibbui focused on the other half, the correct conclusion would have presented itself.

podoboq's entrance into the game proper was absolutely terrible. Everything about it was bad. The fact that podoboq called my naked readslist bad when I know for a fact podoboq has seen those naked readslists in effect before was what sealed the deal.

His reads closely mirror those of the worst, in a way that no other players' reads have, and then when you did the sheep scumread, the reactions of podoboq and the worst were atrocious to it. They went out of their way to defend sheep, something I feel is a strong display of too much knowledge. You are quite apt in saying that this is not outside of sheep's scum range--so why, then, is a player who is not outside of their scum range warranting so strong a defense from these two particular players? It reeks of white knighting.

The whole interaction between podoboq and the worst--which happened a grand total of once in the game--felt like it was orchestrated scum theater, where neither party was really putting much thought into their process of sorting the other.

[mastina]

mastina if you do consider for a moment that podoboq is town, who is scum with TW?

You're asking me to generate a nonexistent scenario. I don't have a third scum, nor should I have a need for one.

You

can

have up to 50% above the number of scum in scumreads (so, 3 in a game with 2 scum; ~4-5 in a game with 3 scum), but while that's

acceptable

, it's not

preferable

. It's casting too wide a net, allowing things to get by that otherwise shouldn't and wouldn't get let past.

I don't have a scumbuddy for the worst other than podoboq, because podoboq is the scumbuddy of the worst.

I can point you to the theoretical. If we knew for a fact that podoboq were town and the worst were scum, then I'd look closest at sheep and skitter's interactions with the worst, and vice-versa, both because of them being on the lower end of my reads and because they have interactions that don't suggest "can't be partners". (Basically, their interactions don't tell me that they're scumbuddies, but they

also

don't tell me that they aren't scumbuddies.)

I wouldn't be able to tell you which of the two it'd be, though.

Because.
This is a theoretical scenario.
Not the real life deal.

And dealing in real life.

podoboq is the player who has interactions clearly painting him as scum with the worst.

[mastina]

Are you actually scumreading me or are you calling the scumteam based off one conversation which you misconstrued?

If I wasn't exhausted right now I'd go construct a mirror to the podoboq thing I just did, for you.

Suffice to say?

Yes.

NSG who is fairly good at reading me is allegedly town in your books, townread me at opening and then saw no reason to reconsider that before replacing out?

Considering you yourself acknowledged that her ability to do so has diminished, this is rather hypocritical of you.

Suffice to say, even had you insisted the whole game that her ability to read you held true? Frankly. I wouldn't buy it; I'd put zero stock in it.

[mastina]

It's extremely obvious that my problem with the readslist you originally posted is that you have me and InfiniteSoda, both of which contributed absolutely nothing to the game, very separate from eachother.

And that is what I was referring to when I said you have seen this trait before.

I, 100%.

Know for a fact.

That you have seen the trait of two players contributing absolutely nothing in the game, being separated from each other in readslists before.

And yet your attitude implied you haven't, even though I know you have.

[mastina]

MOD: Need another 48 hour V/LA.

Today is the absolute SHITTIEST day possible.
I don't want to talk about it, and I CERTAINLY shouldn't be playing while I have today on my mind.

[mastina]

It's extremely obvious that my problem with the readslist you originally posted is that you have me and InfiniteSoda, both of which contributed absolutely nothing to the game, very separate from eachother.

And that is what I was referring to when I said you have seen this trait before.

I, 100%.

Know for a fact.

That you have seen the trait of two players contributing absolutely nothing in the game, being separated from each other in readslists before.

And yet your attitude implied you haven't, even though I know you have.

I straight up don't know what you're talking about. Most people don't have photographic memories of their games. If this has happened before in one of my games, I don't remember it, and just because you consider it significant in one game doesn't mean it should have been significant to me.

It wasn't just one game; it was multiple games. And considering the trait is something that was very notable at the time, I flat-out don't believe that you could have forgotten about it.

we're dealing with scum!mastina so that'll help pad things out!

Ooh! Ooh! So are we gonna like.
Go the indirect route where you try to lynch my "scumbuddy" Nancy while I go lynch your scumbuddy podoboq...
...Or the direct route where we just cross-vote?

I'm fine with either!

[mastina]

and i don't dont' like her saying 'it wasn't *as* scum-indicative' as i'd otherwise be inclined to think' because i literally pulled four examples of me doing that in my towngames (i didn't check my scumgames); i don't think it's scum-indicative at all for me (and she's applying this standard to me in particular)

I think you misinterpreted what I said.

I said that your opening was something that I would normally think was scum indicative--
But having familiarity with your playstyle, I recognized it was not as scum indicative as I would normally think it was.
In other words.
Null.
Null that I'd, if desperate, lynch, but still null all the same.

the fact that the two posts of mine that give you a 'postive feeling' are ones where i'm suspicious of your biggest scumread is a little disturbing

Actually.
It wasn't the fact that you were suspicious of my largest scumread in those posts--quite the opposite, in fact!
While it'd be a lie to say that didn't contribute to the townread.
What really caught my eye wasn't the seeing my same suspicion.
It was seeing reads I strongly disagreed with.

i don't particularly have a problem with nsg's nibbui push tbh; i more have aproblem with the fact that she disappeared after that; i feel like ellitell, while not being like a 100% tell, is a semi-decent indicator and we're kinda in that category here

Nibbui, the fact that you just assume that I'm scum, and buddies with sheep, just because I don't have confidence in YOUR confidence, is horrible play. By all means, to other players, if you know Nibbui better, feel free to vote sheep or even lynch him if you think Nibbui is on the right track here. I just can't, because I don't know Nibbui, I can't trust that his reads are perfect, and I don't even know for sure that he's town. I'm more convinced that he's town now, after this stupid argument, but I'm also less convinced that he's a better player than I am.

this is pretty townie imo

I'm the only one here right now, and everybody apparently knows you better than me. Please don't drop this. Please talk to the other players, and interact with them about this. If you believe sheep is scum, don't just drop that. I want to understand why, and maybe talking to other players will help clarify what is going through your head.

this too

VOTE: sheep
There. Now stay, and talk to us. Don't leave this game and go mope just because I don't understand what's going on with you.

and this one

Specifically, stuff like this.
Not by itself.
But

in tandem

with the suspicion on the worst.

It wasn't any single part of the post.
It was the post as a whole.
The reason for that is because the townread comes from, basically, "original thought". Your thoughts there were the first ones which felt to me, beyond the point of being possible to fake, beyond surface level. Beyond something that could be posted as either alignment, something indicative of real, actual genuine thought put into reads, where you saw the worst as scum but hard-disagreed on two of my strongest reads (nsg as town, and podoboq as scum).

So it was disagreement more than agreement that made me like the post.

i mean how often do scum actually do this? i can't remember an example of one scum-member literally exactly mimicing the reads of their partner and then having their partner lampshade it

When scum have in their PT agreed to an agenda, reads overlap is incredibly common. The lampshade of it is arguably the most damning factor present.

[mastina]

I said that your opening was something that I would normally think was scum indicative--
But having familiarity with your playstyle, I recognized it was not as scum indicative as I would normally think it was.

I realize that may still be unclear.

So.

Theory talk time.

I've written this all out somewhere before, but I don't remember where I wrote it out so I can't just call it up easily for a convenient point of reference, so retyping up the basic process.

When I scumhunt.

I scumhunt using three axes.

The first axis is off of generic in-game things. Things that have

no correlation to being player-specific

, but work as a general outview of things. It is a fluent thing, working off of different circumstances. The same move made in two different situations may give me two different alignments, even WITHOUT being player-specific, simply because of the vastly different circumstances behind the move. However, in spite of being fluid, it still has a consistent process to it.

Move A, in situation A, is scum; Move A, in situation B, is town; Move A will always be town in situation A and scum in situation B. This process is incredibly complex, covering literally hundreds of different possible combinations. It is the backbone of my scumhunting process--I see something, and compare it to my mental file. "This action is something that, given these circumstances, I think indicates scum".

But while this is my main scumhunting process.
It is not my only scumhunting process.

My second tool is basically player-specific things. Things that have

no correlation to being play-specific

, but work for

that specific player

. These override the generic ones--in other words. And this is what I meant. An action that I would normally view as scummy, I'll view as not being scum given who made it; that also applies vice-versa, where an action that I would normally view as town, I won't view as town. This obviously requires familiarity with the players in question; I can do it far more accurately on players I know well, rather than have passing familiarity with.

Does that explain it?

[mastina]

can you explain to me how mastina was being scummy?

Shouldn't you know, given you're calling me scum?

[mastina]

I'm really not sure if Nancy is scum though. Maybe we are wrong?

I mean.

I've only been saying that since the beginning of the game?

[mastina]

You and mastina were the unique considerable wagons and we're approaching deadline and the game is stalled

Gee I wonder why.
Maybe it's because.
The wagons there are shit?

Almost every player here has a scum lean in your slot also

That alone should be a red fucking flag.

@everyone

, could you play the fucking game instead of talking about your meta?

P-edit

Hello, active lurking scum. Nice to meet you, I'm mastina. We should get properly acquainted; I'm rather fond of bonding--specifically, with rope. Around the neck.

[mastina]

Well, I’m wondering why Mastina is so certain I’m town. How familiar is she with NSG meta because I know she can’t be tio familiar with mine.

False on not knowing yours--I'm rather intimately familiar with it given we've played something like ten games together. Or if not played, I've been involved in at least ten if nothing else. But I already explained why nsg became my townread.

northsidegal is, 100% of the time, always town. the worst is, 100% of the time, always scum.

Never doubt it.

When people quoted this, they seemed to forget the most important part of the quote--the bolded. The bolded phrase here, "never doubt it". Is never something said seriously--it's a deadpan snark. I was referring specifically to how, 100% of the time, no matter how much you may think she's scum, northsidegal is pretty much always 100% of the time actually town. With an undertone of how even when she is scum, she is

still

town.

It then figures that the same was true of the worst--I was referring to how, disproportionately, the worst draws scum role PMs time and time again, and is almost always the last anti-town that the town is suspicious of. Yet when he is town, people tend to still think he is scum, especially me, in part due to paranoia of knowing just how good his scumgame can be. So it can be said that, no matter how much you may think he's town, he's scum, 100% of the time, even if his role PM says otherwise.

...But

in spite of that

.

My vote was placed on the worst--if this were 100% a joke read, I'd not have done that, and kept it there.

The reason for these reads, if you look at it, is pretty self-evident:
I'd actually describe as a northsidegal-type of inquisitive: pushing forward, but lighthearted when doing so.

oooooooo mystery!!!!
VOTE: nibbui

northsidegal's entrance

screamed

town. She was incredibly whimsical, unafraid to be the third vote on a wagon, and seemed like she was, genuinely, having a good time.

northsidegal is an inquisitive player, pushing forward, but lighthearted when doing so; that is the exact vibe I got from her posts, as I later explain:

/lazyposting
{nsg}
{tw, sheep}
{skitter}
{everyone else}
{nibbui}

This readslist was exactly what she said it was: lazy. It's a pretty terrible readslist, but alignment-wise my thought on it was that it was completely and entirely, 100%, not alignment indicative either way. Given my prior townread on nsg tho, it wasn't really worth bringing up.

When I saw her interact with Nibbui more, I thought it was a fairly town-town interaction on both sides

, tho--but because both were already topping my townreads

anyway

, I didn't really feel like emphasizing the fact.

When I say someone is town, I tend not to put special emphasis on them being town past that point--the sole exception to this is if the player I am calling town is at risk of being lynched. If they are close to being lynched, then, obviously, I need to emphasize why they are town to dissuade that outcome, but other than that, my feeling is mostly a "said once, then done". I said nsg and Nibbui were town, I was done.

Pink Ball and podoboq seems frustated with you talking about your own meta and I don't want you guys to argue with each other over it

Nope. It's everyone talking about everyone's meta. It's all meta. This single day with people has been longer than entire games I've played. It's tiring.

Still doing nothing, and this point is one I feel is egregious anyway.

There's plenty of non-meta evidence to be had.
While meta does have a prominent place in discussion--as it should--it is not overwhelmingly dominating as podoboq is pretending.

[mastina]

idk how to explain that better; this feels like a game where scum might be in the townbloc

You know my answer.

Skitter had like at least three AI posts in their ISO and its concerning you are late to the game on that

No, it's concerning pretending skitter had that many strong alignment-indicative posts in her iso given her nature--in other words, the real concern isn't me being "late"; it's those who were early in giving that townread.

I feel like skitter does warrant one, but pretending she warranted one from essentially the onset is ridiculous unless your experience with her is on soulread levels. She's quite competent as both alignments and has a style almost identical between them; to read her as town, you need to find the content which is beyond her ability to fake as scum, and that content didn't exist as far as I could tell until much later in her iso than you are saying.

And if she is at all in any way honest with herself, she'd be the

first

to tell you this.

[mastina]

Mastina is a time traveller yeah

Well that's what happens when you've got the level of experience I have.

I've been playing mafia here on mafiascum.net for over ten years, now. There are people who play that are "older" than me; there are even people who are my contemporaries still around that play (Reck is from my generation, btw). However, in my youth I was in up to 15 games at the same time, and slowly dropped down to like 8 while still in my prime. Those that are older/my contemporaries were, by and large, lucky if they managed half of that.

So by and large, I've just had more experience playing that pretty much any other player on mafiascum. I admit, though, that my knowledge base on current scummers is at an all-time low. I stalk Normal games pretty obsessively, and I'm involved with an average of 50% of Large Theme games, but my only knowledge from mini themes is games I mod or play in; my knowledge of micros, opens, and newbies is nigh-nonexistent, meaning that the queues frequented by the newer generation are the ones I frankly have the least exposure to.

And given that I can only handle pretty much a maximum of four games at a time, that means my exposure is far less than when I was at my prime. But, such is the consequence of aging; I'm not as young as I used to be, and have lost a significant portion of my stamina. (It is a good day if I can read 20 pages of a game in a day. Whereas I used to binge 80, even 100, overnight, sometimes pulling all-nighters for the sake of mafia.)

Alas.

[mastina]

(Btw it goes without saying--most people have commented on Nancy, but are ignoring that Ari's been posting, too; what Aristophanes has posted is just as strongly a town indicator even if you're unfamiliar with his meta. If you know his meta like I do, then they should be the locktown of absolute locktown because this is Ari as town. I know I heavily coached him on how to better his scumgame, but he still hasn't mastered it to the level he'd have displayed this game, soooooooooooooooooo.)

[mastina]

I want to lynch Mastina today though because she has good partner equity with all the different possible scum teams imo here

Helpful hint:
If someone can be scum with anyone, they are scum with no one. (They're town.)

Actual scum don't make it so that they can be partnered with anyone; they make it so that they look like they're partnered with a few specific town players, such that when those town players flip town the scum are townread, or when the scum is lynched the town are scumread.

[mastina]

I can change my mind if I ever find a strong reason to scum read him though

I should write that case then at some point. Don't have the energy to do it today (I'm running low on stamina as-is), but if there's no page explosion maybe I can do it tomorrow.

[mastina]

I think no one can correctly read mastina here and her posts at least for me are nullscum because I've not seen any fluidity on her reads
she did read the opening posts and her later readlist is basically the same than it was on page 1 or 2
that's not normal imo

Nibbui what are you high on.

My reads didn't change one iota in Red Flag.

And while I haven't been town in many games recently, my reads never changed in Labyrinth, Varsoon Variety, Stock Photos, Be Someone Else, or Magical Girls Mafia.

And they only changed

once

in Earthbound, with a similar reluctance to change in Scummers in this Game.

You literally saw me explain my philosophy as to why.

My reads only change when I have reason to change them.

I've no reason to change my Mephistophanes read; I was townreading nsg, I'm townreading Nancy, and I'm townreading Aristophanes.
I've no reason to change my podoboq read; I gave you my scum case, the entirety sum of why people are townreading podoboq seems to be "oh I liked these reads from podoboq" (which is absolute horseshit), and he continues to scum it up whenever he posts.
I've no reason to change my the worst read; I haven't given you the case, and admittedly I've slacked off a bit in hounding his posts, but he is still playing scum here and I can better explain that later.

I've only had one read change--skitter moving to being a townread--but that's because there's only been the one read that has had reason to change.

Pink Ball is just as town as before and continues to town it up whenever present.
You are even more town and continue to town up whenever present.
Lolwagons is someone who is a strong enough scum player to not be outside his scum range and it's hard to lock down anything he's said as being undeniably town, but there's also a lack of scum indicators. In other words, he continues his slot's position of being null, because I haven't locked onto an unambiguously town or unambiguously scum indicator from him.
sheep has continued to produce content, and my read actually

has

changed there...several times. By which I mean fully ambivalent on him. There are areas where I hard-townread what he was doing, but were followed immediately by areas where I hard-scumread what he was doing, so it's impossible right now to lock him down.

Those two reads I imagine

will

change in the future, when I CAN lock them down, similar to how my read on skitter changed from being right in that null pool with them to town. But it hasn't changed yet, because nothing there has changed. My reads change when there is reason for them to change, when there is something that definitively points me in a new direction.

And that largely hasn't happened.
Because my conclusions remain the same.
Because nothing has come up that changes said conclusions.

[mastina]

But I’m probably more hurt at tw, regardless.

I find it much easier to forgive players when it's revealed that they were scum, working towards their wincon with their push.

[mastina]

So in duck's readlist he had Nancy and LolWagons as scum and mastina as null; Nibbui asked him what's up with mastina and he replied that she towntelled because she read him backwards, but that she could go either way. Now that Nancy towntelled, the duck votes mastina.

I mean, that pretty much tells you everything you need to know, yes!

[mastina]

I can’t help get the feeling that Mastina has somehow set up a situation with an artificial 1v1 between tw and myself. Having us as her #1 townread and the worst, as her #1 scumread.

You apparently haven't been paying attention if you think the worst is my #1 scumread; that'd be podoboq.

You also apparently haven't been reading my fucking posts, because.

She approaches this in a deliberately scummy way

I already fucking answered this. I did no such thing so stop fucking saying I did.

Neither Mastina’s #1 townread on us or #1 scumread on the worst are ever explained

Also false.

Read my fucking posts because

literally nothing you're saying about me is true

.

[mastina]

I think his rage in regards to Mastina is genuine, and he even seems to have deleted a post about Mastina's accusations due to being angry

Yes.
What makes that town?

Being angry genuinely does not a townie make.

About his reaction on me engaging him, I don't think that scum!Podoboq would have even voted you only to make me still be in the game
I think he would still say the same thing but not vote with me there

I don't see why.

I meant that there was too much "mindmelding" and too much convergence on our reads, between you, me, the worst, skitter and I think podoboq too? I said that your lack of paranoia was disturbinh, 'cause back then I was pretty sure that someone was fabricating their reads in order to be part of a townbloc. Now I see I was right: you WERE thinking what I was thinkin, 'cause you came to the conclusion that there must be scum between sheep, the worst and mastina.

Right then! So Nibbui has proven that they really WERE thinking the same way that you were.
And yet there was too much convergence in the reads.
You correctly point out that someone in there was fabricating their reads.

So you're left with {the worst, skitter, podoboq} having at least one faker.
Lemme give you a hint: it's not skitter; I said 'at least' for good reason.

[mastina]

we should make gimmik rap alts guys

Actually.

I, uh.

I already have one.

Mastina join the TW wagon it’s going places.

we should cross-vote <3

Sure thing!

VOTE: the worst.

[mastina]

like rn she's talking about her townread on NSG which was a pretty forced read ("ooo mystery" isn't like. towny/lassaiz-faire in rvs and realistically is not the kind of thing you look at for a towny solving mindset in rvs, surely, please tell me if you think this is being dumb) and tmi townread of Nancy which she's mostly let sit on the back burner while we actually pushed Nancy but is yelling about now she realises it's not a mislynch

The reason I'm not defending Nancy in spite of the pressure there is, because I was catching up.

What good does defending against Nancy pressure posted 20 pages ago do, if by the time I'm caught up, it turns out that there's no pressure there? (Which is pretty much...exactly what happened?) I mean, sure. If Nancy were still in danger at this point, you can bet your ass I'd go to her defense, but frankly. Simply put. She isn't. So it's not needed.

I do what I need to do in games, and don't waste time/effort on things I don't need to do. Nancy needs no defense right now, so she doesn't get it. Nancy needed it 20 pages ago...but

I wasn't here 20 pages ago

. So retroactively giving her defense would be just as much a waste of my time as giving a player already mislynched a case on why they are town.

[mastina]

ari is a scumgod and top tier meta manipulation is his greatest strength

No.

You weren't there for his strongest scumgames.

I was.

As his scum partner, no less.

I actually know the context behind the situation, rather than the meme it's evolved into.

Aristophanes didn't outplay Ellibereth.
He was simply not caught and put in Elli's POE--in Elli's null pile. Ellibereth's town pile which comprised of all but six or seven of the players in that game was 100% entirely correct. Ellibereth's scum pile which comprised of three of the four scum was 100% correct. Aristophanes was one of the three or four names Ellibereth had in the null pile, and had he not eaten the N1 nightkill, Ellibereth would have pushed Ari to death the moment he got the chance. Had the town actually sheeped Ellibereth's reads, that game would've been a town win because Elli instructed them to lynch within the nulls. That the town didn't do so was the fault of the town. Not Ellibereth.

And, mind you.

Aristophanes ended up winning that game not because of

his

posts.
But because of

my

post. Specifically, he earned a townread because of where I placed him in my readslist.

Aristophanes isn't an atrocious scum player, but he's no god of scumplay; he's getting better, but not to the point where he can fool me.

[mastina]

one spicy take: scum!me lolhammers there instead of giving intent because I'm completely cognisant of how heavily Nancy can spew town under pressure

Except she wasn't actually at L-1 and you're a thorough enough scum player to not make that mistake.

It is specifically because you gave intent rather than voting that it's scum-indicative, honestly.

[mastina]

I wonder if I'm getting under Mastina's charm though

She is strangely charming

(Btw, that's actually a weak towntell of mine. scumastina is an ass, so is anything but charming. The charm comes from me when I'm town, since I just have a way with people, I guess.)

mastina my problem isn't you lacking fluidity on your reads, I know somewhat that when you fix your reads on someone, you stay with that for a while
my problem is that you fixed your reads on page 1 or 2
in Red Flag you had a whole day to fix your reads on and it makes sense you keeping them static there
here you hadn't much to base they on firstly though
maybe it's just a coincidence however

Go do some research on me.

I am infamous for making page one readslists.

Reads which often last a significant portion of the game, partially or entirely.

My reads didn't change past the first couple of pages, because the first couple of pages were all I needed to get them. I extrapolate a lot from the RVS. My personal philosophy reads-wise is, "when in doubt, go back to the RVS". I treat it as incredibly valuable (which is honestly one of the reasons I latched onto Gamma as scum in red flag, for the usage of the proven-scumsided RQS that is much harder to get a read on than normal RVS is), because I have developed a whole nuanced process behind extrapolating from RVS posts alignments of individuals.

While these are always guesswork at best, sometimes, especially in smaller games, these reads prove to have merit, when later content supports my original conclusion.

You'll find with sufficient research both a number of games where my reads change after the RVS readslist, and a number of games where they didn't.

I am scumreading the worst because his entrance screamed scum and all his content since then has only supported that conclusion.
I wasn't actually strongly scumreading podoboq. If you were to look at my original readslist, the separation for it would've been:

northsidegal
Pink Ball
Nibbui

InfiniteSoda
sheepsaysmeep

skitter30

podoboq

the worst

This. But since then, my scumread on podoboq has grown, to the point where he's my strongest scumread, stronger even than the worst.

So my current readslist would be:
Mephistophanes
Nibbui
Pink Ball

skitter

Lolwagons
sheepsaysmeep

the worst
podoboq.

Just because the players I'm suspicious of haven't changed, doesn't mean that it's been entirely static. podoboq went from slight scumread to strongest scumread.

[mastina]

I can see where Mastina is coming about podoboq as well
not their RVS entrance or whatever
but their play here is very consensus and laid back yes
oh god...

Never thought you'd end up sheeping me, eh?

like @tw i guess my problem with ur mastina push rn is that it feels a little conveniently-timed? like as your wagon heats up you decide mastina - who happens to be ur counterwagon - is obvscum

Also.
the worst isn't really saying I'm scum for anything--because

he can't

. He's more saying that I'm not town, just because I'm not being townread.

I can't accurately read mastina imo. but I don't really see her town motivation here and like I can happily be talked outta this but I don't think anyone's convincingly townreading her....?

As so.

[mastina]

(you roll scum a lot!)

And you wonder why my preferred alignment is town.

(I drew so many scum PMs that frankly I got sick of it. Especially when I know that I'm good enough to basically win any scumgame if I give it sufficient amounts of effort. Now, granted. Sometimes I can't give said effort. But I know that when I give it, I will win. Victory is boring, basically.)

[mastina]

I'm a lategame confirmable town power role.

Uh-huh.

Sure you are.

See that unvote?

That's the degree to which I believe you.

[mastina]

Like.

This is a micro.

The longest possible game is to D4.

There is no such thing as a lategame confirmable town power role.

[mastina]

mastina who were you in Be Someone Else? I don't know a lot about your alts

I was part of the Eldritch Abomination role--I didn't post in-game, but was one of the most active members of that PT.

[mastina]

So we can (and probably should) in fact lynch me today, but we need to not do it immediately and be smart about it.

Claim: 3x Role Awakener

.
What this is, is essentially a souped-up super-Inventor.
During any phase, I can target a player. That player will have their "true role" awakened.
On D1, I targeted [REDACTED - player is still alive, and it would be incredibly anti-town to out their identity]. They'd be able to verify this if they were to out themselves, but again. It'd be stupendously anti-town for them to do so. (Suffice to say, the change in your role? Yeah, that was me.)

On N1, I targeted Nibbui.

I have one more shot left, and I can use it today.

I checked with the mod yesterday, and if I am lynched, my role

still

goes through, meaning that I can be lynched today and still use my third shot.
But before we do that.
We should discuss who I give it to.

[mastina]

Also, since Starcraft Mafia ended, I can say that was the main basis behind my the worst scumread--I

knew

he was scum that game in spite of Nancy insisting during the timeframe of this game at least that he was town there, which is why I said her ability to read him was shit; I already knew she was wrong there, so I thought she was wrong here.

[mastina]

Scum!tw. Too damn bad this game just ended or maybe we could have stopped his mislynch. :/

And don't you fucking pretend that you had a correct read on him because you scumread him on D1, while townreading him for

the entire rest of the game

, up to and including

roleblocking

the only other town player alive

because

the worst asked you to

. He pocketed you hard. And I KNEW he had.

[mastina]

Btw, not that it'll make a difference since I expect to be lynched today, but.
VOTE: podoboq.
All the same, it's the thought that counts.

[mastina]

So how about just use it privately

That doesn't mean discussion shouldn't be made.

Also, since Starcraft Mafia ended, I can say that was the main basis behind my the worst scumread--I

knew

he was scum that game in spite of Nancy insisting during the timeframe of this game at least that he was town there, which is why I said her ability to read him was shit; I already knew she was wrong there, so I thought she was wrong here.

I scumlocked him on D1. Wtf are you talking about? I even roleblocked him that night.

Scum!tw. Too damn bad this game just ended or maybe we could have stopped his mislynch. :/

And don't you fucking pretend that you had a correct read on him because you scumread him on D1, while townreading him for

the entire rest of the game

, up to and including

roleblocking

the only other town player alive

because

the worst asked you to

. He pocketed you hard. And I KNEW he had.

[mastina]

So if you insist on discussing this, you’re going to have to be extremely cognizant about not tipping your hand at all.

In spite of my reputation, I can when the occasion calls for it keep things close to my chest!

fun fact!
schadd specifically said that *scum* were responsible for my role change last night (and you're claiming to have changed a role so ..... i would be shocked if someone else had their role changed too)

You were not my target. Someone else was, so there is in fact someone else who has a changed role.

They would vouch for me.

But again.

That would be anti-town.

Do you really want to force the issue or will you trust me when I say that I didn't target you but my target is still alive and has a changed role?

[mastina]

also i'd like everyone to share their reads on me in as excruciating detail as possible, thank you

You're a townread of mine, but not the type of person I wanted to target with my ability. (Thus, why I did not.)

I stated why yesterday: you are a reasonably skilled scum player whose scumplay is nigh-identical to your towngame, but you have displayed original thoughts that I felt were indicative of you being town. These thoughts didn't elevate you to supertown levels of the core townbloc, infallible town I could never be wrong on, but they did elevate you to be a solid townread.

[mastina]

How do we know that Schadd didn’t do this?

I'm not sure what you mean.
How do we know that schadd gave me the role awakener?
Because it's my fucking role.
I targeted [REDACTED].
[REDACTED] had their role changed.
This is a fact.
I was not responsible for skitter's role change.
[REDACTED] would be able to verify that their role changed. If they claimed, then by virtue of their role changing, it proves that two people have claimed a role change, and I am claiming responsibility for one of them.

Which automatically.
Means.
Either I am scum that somehow KNEW about [REDACTED]'s role change.
I am scum with [REDACTED] and in spite of a VERY consistent track record of fakeclaiming we decided to bank the game on one.
OR.
That I did exactly what I fucking claimed I did.
And targeted [REDACTED] for the role change.

If your not reponsible for Skitter’s rolechange, why should we believe your claim?

Because there is a player who can and would vouch for me if I outed their identity? The problem is, that would out that they have a changed role, marking them for a fucking nightkill--the very thing I am trying to avoid.

And what would you say, if Nibbul denies they had a role change?

Nibbui's dead. Nibbui died before the role change would go through; for Nibbui's role to have changed, Nibbui would need to have lived through the night. And HAD Nibbui lived through the night, I would not be claiming I targeted Nibbui; I would be claiming I targeted [REDACTED] D1 and [REDACTED] N1. I was always planning on claiming D2 the moment the mod told me that my power would work even if I were lynched.

[mastina]

anyways for the role you're claiming, do you know what you give out or is it just mystic 'true role' stuff?

If I knew what I was giving out, this is something I'd be able to 'crumb to my target.

I do not.

I lowkey suspected that this game was a form of mountainous role madness--where everyone started with no PR, but my role was meant to give three players a PR, and each player I targeted has a power unique to them. (Which, mind you, was why I thought the worst was full of shit with his claim.)

Since the mafia gave you a power role, I don't think I'm very far off my mark on that.

[mastina]

P.edit. What if more people than Skitter had a role change? It points to your claim as not being legit, since according to your claim, only one player ought to have had their rolechanged, correct?
So, who changed Skitter’s then, according to you?

According to skitter, the scum.
But there is one player whose role changed, and only one, and they should know why I targeted them.
There shouldn't be more than one, because if there were more than [MY TARGET] and skitter...who would be responsible for the third? This is a micro, there's only so many players in it. Two scum + me + three players' roles changing = 7/9. In other words.
You can be assured.
There's not more than one, because [MY TARGET] was it. And [MY TARGET] was not skitter.

i also went down the wifom hole and thought of the possibility that scum didn't know what they were giving me but they def did, per schadd, in case anyone's wondering. they specifically chose to give it to me; it was not randomized, and they knew what they were giving out

That's kinda proof that my role exists though? Because I made it clear from the onset how mine works.

[mastina]

But Skitter and us had our rolechanged. How do you account for that?

BECAUSE YOU WERE MY FUCKING TARGET HOW DENSE CAN YOU BE

[mastina]

ok why did you pick nibbui last night?

Same reason I gave to Nancy D1: top townread tier, but less likely to die than Pink Ball and less likely to be forced to claim it.

[mastina]

also like what would have happened if you and scum targeted the same person yesterday? my role doesn't make sense in conjunction with being given other things really

Fucked if I know. How exactly do I ask the mod that hypothetical?

why less likely to die than pink ball?
(why are people even townreading pink ball for that matter?)

Pink Ball was a universal townread--everyone was townreading Pink Ball.

While

almost

everyone townread Nibbui, there were one or two people who didn't, so I thought that Nibbui was less likely to die.

But Skitter and us had our rolechanged. How do you account for that?

BECAUSE YOU WERE MY FUCKING TARGET HOW DENSE CAN YOU BE

Why did you say it was Nibbui then?

Because I targeted both of you.
You were my D1 target.
Nibbui was my N1 target.
I have one final shot, for my D2 target.

That's kinda proof that my role exists though? Because I made it clear from the onset how mine works.

no, why is that proof?

Because what you're describing is vastly different from what I described from the onset?

[mastina]

Because what you're describing is vastly different from what I described from the onset?

yeah that's why it doesn't make sense to me
explain very slowly why it means your role exists

I don't see how it's not clear.
You are describing one role mechanic that applies to you--you got something from the scum.
I am describing a different role mechanic that applies to me and my target, Mephistophanes--I gave something to them.
The way my role works is different from the way your role works.

That's proof that I am not copying the mechanic of your role, and proof that you are not copying the mechanic of mine.

And thus, that is proof that my role is real, because I don't lie about roles. Any player who knows me can vouch for this fact. (Which, mind you, was another reason for the Mephistophanes target--Nancy may or may not make this vouch, but that hydra is half

Aristophanes

, and he most certainly would. I was also fairly confident Nibbui could do similar. LolWagons/Slaxx has rusted to the point where I wasn't sure he could, and Pink Ball confessed that while an alt they are unfamiliar with me, soooooooo.)

[mastina]

TW lynch happened at 9:29 PM, so we got our rolechange PM 3 minutes after that.

Which makes perfect sense.
Because I can change my target any time prior to the end of the phase.
Obviously, the change can't take place

until

the end of the phase. (Specifically, immediately after.)

[mastina]

The way my role works is different from the way your role works.

right but the point is that both of them being in the same game makes very little sense to me

And yet, they do.

you did in Minuet.

No, I didn't.

I claimed, truthfully, that I was an N2 vigilante.
I also claimed, semi-truthfully, with very careful wording, that I would be conftown on D3...from a certain point of view. Specifically, the viewpoint that a vig kill could only come from town, thus, me proving my role would be proof of my town alignment.
The

initial

claim was a

half

-truth: the truth, from a

certain

point of view.
The

actual

claim was a

complete

truth. I was precisely what I said I was.

[mastina]

What rolechange did you give to Nibui?

anyways for the role you're claiming, do you know what you give out or is it just mystic 'true role' stuff?

If I knew what I was giving out, this is something I'd be able to 'crumb to my target.

I do not.

I don't know what power I gave to you, I don't know what power I gave to Nibbui, and I don't know what power I'll give to whoever I target today. I only know that I give them a power. You should absolutely not reveal it tho.

[mastina]

you did in Minuet.

No, I didn't.

I claimed, truthfully, that I was an N2 vigilante.

I also claimed, semi-truthfully, with very careful wording, that I would be conftown on D3...from a certain point of view. Specifically, the viewpoint that a vig kill could only come from town, thus, me proving my role would be proof of my town alignment.
The

initial

claim was a

half

-truth: the truth, from a

certain

point of view.
The

actual

claim was a

complete

truth. I was precisely what I said I was.

Lol, I can find you the quote if you like. Prior to that, you claimed D3? IC iirc.

So can I.

Actual claim: Night 2 Vig; last night, I shot Purrcocet.

(And yes, it's spelled that way. Not Vigilante; Vig. Not N2, Night 2.)

I was basically breadcrumbing this role in every fucking post of mine (I can pull up my VERY specific wordings in a bit), but.
The reasoning for the fakeclaim should be self-evident. I said on D3 I would be an innocent child; that's because you don't fucking give a vigilante to a scum player, and the proof would be in the second nightkill with me having killed Purrcocet. (Well originally I was planning on shooting Kokichi, but. Yaknow. Claimed my exact fucking role, and all that.) By claiming D3 Innocent Child, I would lead scum to think I had no night action; by claiming D3 innocent child, I would lead players to think that I was utterly harmless before D3.

BTW investigatives should stay off me; they'd be wasting their action.
I'm a D3 Innocent Child.
If you are wondering, no, not

automatic

; I have to manually

trigger

it.

Investigatives should stay off of me because a gunsmith would get a guilty on me; rolecopping or vanilla copping or neapolitaning me would be a waste because my role would be proven come N2 with a successful vig.

I made it clear from the wording here what my true role is. AUTOMATIC-->guns. TRIGGER-->guns.

I guarantee you.

On D3, after I have triggered my action.

I will be conftown.

Again, I specify TRIGGER. I also was very careful with my wording. I never said that I would trigger my action ON D3. I said, QUITE SPECIFICALLY, I would be conftown on D3 after HAVING triggered my action.

Wrt innocent child shenanigans it's possible they have something to do with the "main characters" this setup is based around

I'm not a main character; my confirmation comes from a different method altogether.

My confirmation method comes from being a fucking vig.

Or they'll just do to you what they did to me and vanillarize-neighborize you.

That'd be their funeral then because it'd turn this game from "not exactly something I want" to "oh fuck you I AM GOING TO WIN THIS SHIT" mode.

Vanillaizing an innocent child wouldn't do much because I go without being conftown in most games, but I was specifically putting A LOT OF EFFORT into the strategy behind my vig; being vanillaized after I worked so hard on that would be a "fuck you".

This is no excuse to not post any reads because you can die before hand.

I have my reasons.

Put it this way.

If a townread of mine gets run up, I'll defend them.

I'll give thoughts on players randomly. Some of these may even be productive.

But I've no reason to give full reads before then.

Also this is a good way to help ensure I

don't

bite the bullet before D3. The suspicion on me helps me stay alive.

I know how to play roles, even ones I'm not particularly fond of. (I mean, I love being conftown, but this is a fairly shitty way to get it.) And I promise you, this is the best possibly strategy for me holding this role.

"Bite the bullet" was another hint, but the strongest hint here was "roles I'm not particularly fond of". What role have I on NUMEROUS different occasions stated I absolutely loathe? That's right. Vigilante. I hate them with a passion, but they have one particular use--being made conftown. It's a SHITTY way to become conftown, but it's becoming conftown nonetheless.

Also, this was me outlining my plan.

I wasn't going to give scumreads because guess what? As a fucking vig, I can let my SHOT do the talking in terms of scumreads.

I never lie about being conftownable as town.

Exaggerate

, yes.

Mislead

, sure!
But lie, fuck no, I know better than that.

So I guarantee you.

I will be conftown.

Here I basically admitted that I was in fact not a D3 IC, because the D3 IC claim was precisely this: misleading, and exaggeration, but still the truth, because by shooting N2, I'd be conftown on D3, just as good as an IC.

I'm gonna guess she's on a team with a vanillarizor or something and planned to explain it away that way or something

Joke's on them if they vanillaize me, actually. I'd laugh my ass off if they tried.

The assumption here was that I wouldn't be vanillaized N1 (after all, they thought I couldn't be conftown until D3 so why vanillaize me N1?), and if they attempted it N2, it presumably wouldn't stop my shot from going off. Thus, why the joke would be on them if they had tried; I'd still have fucked them over with the shot.

VOTE: Katsuki

I buy Katsuki's D5 Innocent Child claim if Katsuki has the two-phase-shifted equivalent of my role. (I

suspect

Katsuki would be able to share details about my role from their own, if so inclined to share, which I imagine Katsuki is not.)

So that's not a lynch ever happening because Katsuki is going to be just as conftown as I am, albeit two phases later than I will be.

Here I stated my suspicion that Katsuki had an Night 4 Vig. I was VERY careful about my wording. Not "two-day-shifted". Two PHASE shifted. And I suspected Katsuki would be able to give details of this.

if we have 2 ics there must be a disadvantage somewhere else

Would you believe me if I said I had an idea of what?

The disadvantage I am referring to here is how Vigs require KILLING, to REMOVE a player from the game--yes, they become conftown by having done so, but shots are DISPROPORTIONATELY likely to be on town (thus why I hate vigs), on top of the chance of failure (thus the gambit to help ensure I'd succeed).

Point out the lie there, because there's none to be had; I did in fact shoot Purrcocet N2 as a N2 Vigilante that game, and those breadcrumbs were deliberately planted there precisely as I said they were.

[mastina]

Convenient, that you left that part out.

Left what out?

You're not showing anything I didn't show, except for my reasons for having shot Purrcocet that I cut out for brevity's sake. (They weren't necessary to prove the point.)

I was a Night 2 Vigilante.
I shot Purrcocet.
On D3.
I claimed Night 2 Vigilante, that shot Purrcocet, and laid out the reasons for the prior misleading in my role.
I also was, quite clearly, rather explicitly.
The whole time.
Unambiguously, 100%. Breadcrumbing my true role of N2 Vigilante.

Or are you going to say that those breadcrumbs

weren't

me saying my true role there?
Because they really don't get more explicit than that.

[mastina]

Okay stop with the fucking quote walls on other games seriously
It took me too long to scroll through that on mobile

Mastina neglected her initial D3 IC claim, which was obviously false.

Which was part of a front for the setup of the true claim of my true fucking role, and I included it in the original wall.

BTW investigatives should stay off me; they'd be wasting their action.
I'm a D3 Innocent Child.
If you are wondering, no, not

automatic

; I have to manually

trigger

it.

Investigatives should stay off of me because a gunsmith would get a guilty on me; rolecopping or vanilla copping or neapolitaning me would be a waste because my role would be proven come N2 with a successful vig.

I made it clear from the wording here what my true role is. AUTOMATIC-->guns. TRIGGER-->guns.

[mastina]

The whole you have to/should lynch me thing feels gambity. Best bet I call those bluffs.

I haven't submitted a D2 target yet btw so, uh.

Can we get back to discussing your thoughts on different options like I originally fucking asked?

Then

you can lynch me because right now this is just a gigantic waste of time because it's not productive. My role is real; discussing if it's real won't do any good, but discussing how to use it will.

[mastina]

yeah i didn't like the 'should lynch' me thing either

Why not?
It proves my role is real, thereby confirming both the player I give to today and Mephistophanes.
I am also a consensus scumread--and more than that.

I am also someone who doesn't have enough scumreads.
I still think podoboq is scum.
And I would still advise you to lynch him.
But I don't know who his partner is, so I'm useless reads-wise to keep around.

There's no reason for me to live past today and there's reason that I should die today.

[mastina]

If you sent a rolechange to someone rn, when would they be informed of it?

You have the absolute shittiest reading comprehension I've ever seen.

TW lynch happened at 9:29 PM, so we got our rolechange PM 3 minutes after that.

Which makes perfect sense.
Because I can change my target any time prior to the end of the phase.
Obviously, the change can't take place

until

the end of the phase. (Specifically, immediately after.)

I can submit any time prior to the lynch, and the change happens immediately after the lynch.

[mastina]

idk posts like this one are kinda townie but i'm a little wary that they're designed to seem that way to get people to back off lynching you

Well I'd be self-voting right now if not still deciding who to target, so.

[mastina]

MOD: V/LA due to power outage.

Be back when I have power.

[mastina]

and i guess you were planning for mastina to be around long-term

Actually no.
We knew I was fucked from the get-go.

gg this village played scarily well

Indeed!

yep, gg mastina and sheep. it was pretty toughh for you guys after like day1

I think that the fact we made it to lylo when we were nailed dead to rights D1 is a testament to how well we managed to recover tho.

also what confused me for so long is that ... i am pretty good at lylo so i couldn't figure out why mastina/whoever wanted me to be there, and that threw me off for a fairly long time because i couldn't figure out what they were doing

You nailed it--and were literally the

only

one to have done so!--when you analyzed it and realized that you weren't picked because we wanted to pick you; you were picked because literally every other option we had was worse than you.

There was no good pick, only choices of bad ones. And while I knew giving to you was bad, it was the least-bad of my options.

Was the no kill so there wouldn’t be a tracker clear?

More the opposite, no tracker guilty, but yes. POE would have murdered us if there were a tracker inno.

mastina's setup on that slot was VERY good.

And people wonder why I am a god of scumplay.

[mastina]

There was no good pick, only choices of bad ones.

This should serve as a testament to the town's skill this game.

There literally was no winning option to pick.

Only a choice of which option we'd lose to.

[mastina]

knowing how mastina does NKs and based on the top tier of my townreads I worked out there was exactly a -700% chance that slot would ever be killed n1
was pretty proud of that decision

And I was pretty proud of my decision to claim credit for your work and make it seem like mine.

If you'd have picked podoboq, I'd have been fucked. Granted, then I'd have told sheep to just kill podoboq and pray to the mafia gods that skitter didn't get a tracker guilty (or for that matter, inno), butstill. I knew that I could BS it if you gave it to literally anyone other than podoboq.

also schadd, i quite liked the setup!

So did I!