Newbie 1917 - Game Over

[TTTT]

VOTE: chennisden
and I'm already out of RVS

[TTTT]

VOTE: chennisden
and I'm already out of RVS

not joking
4 of his 5 posts are newbscum

[TTTT]

Hey newer players...
can you guys all get some avatars uploaded?
doesn't matter what it is
but it helps everyone else keep track by attaching your posts to a "face"

[TTTT]

VOTE: Guilty Lion for teasing a newbie :p hello guys

I'm gonna ask you more about this vote later
plz remind me

[TTTT]

VOTE: Thespio for having a Sabertooth mage as his avatar.

Kidding, Sabertooth's fine. UNVOTE: .
Also, you guys seem to be taking RVS unexpectedly seriously.

this is awkward too

[TTTT]

VOTE: Guilty Lion for teasing a newbie :p hello guys

I'm gonna ask you more about this vote later
plz remind me

I can answer all your questions... Its an RVS vote, why are you so eager to set up lynches?

bc it's the only way to kill scum

[TTTT]

bc it's the only way to kill scum

Its also a good way to kill town.

if you wanna make an omelette...

[TTTT]

Dude the games 30 seconds in and you are claiming to have figured it all out, tbh this looks like an early lynch gambit, with no IC trying to get newbies to collapse on one person for an early kill. Im 99.999999999% sure the things pinging your scumdar are newbies trying to learn to play.

says I'm claiming to have it all figured out (I don't)
says 99.999999999% sure entrance posts so far are NAI

[TTTT]

I really want to talk to you more about your thoughts on opening game strat
but not right now

[TTTT]

since there's no IC
make sure everybody reads this...

Voting, L-x, and Hammers
L-x is a way to convey how far away a player is away from a lynch. For example, you should always announce that you are putting someone at L-1 (1 vote away from a lynch) so that someone doesn’t come along and accidentally vote for that players lynch. This also prevents Mafia-aligned players from coming along and placing the final vote to lynch (“hammer”) and claiming ignorance about doing so. You may also see L-2 and L-3 (2 votes away from a lynch and 3 votes away from a lynch, respectively).

Before you hammer a player, state your intent to hammer (usually done in bold) and ask the player to claim their role. This is done to prevent power roles from being lynched, and can sometimes get Mafia-aligned players to be caught (via counter claiming). It's best to then allow other players to react and discuss the claim before hammering.

[TTTT]

two more votes on chennis would be a lynch
let's not do that right now plz

[TTTT]

@TTTT but you caught obvscum right?

I really want to talk to you more about your thoughts on opening game strat
but not right now

[TTTT]

You seriously think that what little content he has posted is scummy?

yep

[TTTT]

like I'm not saying he's 100% locked-scum here
(even though Thespio seems to want to sell that narrative)
but so far chennis is posting like how newbscum posts

[TTTT]

it seems silly to jump on a newbie for their first couple posts

ask NotMySpamAccount how he feels about this...

[TTTT]

GL is turning my thoughts into beautiful words
feel free to just assume I agree with everything he says until I saw otherwise

[TTTT]

And I agree with TTTT, do jump on a newbie for their first couple of posts. I should have been lynched day 1.

NMSA, welcome to the town club

I'm not as confident in town!NMSA as GL
but everything else is mind-meld

[TTTT]

@CsBlastoise
I know it's early
but if you had to pick one scum right now
who it be?

[TTTT]

But yes, now I'm realizing that I should ask @TTTT, just what is it in Chen's minimal content that you find scummy?

I hate doing this bc now it's gonna look like I'm super-efforting for this lynch
but you asked nicely...

Spoiler:

VOTE: Screamingnoodle Gonna put the pressure on someone who's confirmed while I'm waiting for the inactives.

EbWoP: confirmed their role PM.

1 post is not enough to scumread anyone. Best to let the game develop in RVS for now I guess

no worries, there's not really a "standard" and people will have different opinions on how to interpret things. if you're town don't sweat it, I'll likely come around on you if you stay engaged. early game you kinda just have to start with small things and see where it leads, to me voting you for a non-random reason is

incrementally better than voting a slot randomly

You're right. May change vote to Muh due to "voting for salt" (better than voting a random slot)

this looks like newbscum overly concerned with how others perceive him
9 is over-explained
we know chennis read the "Introduction and Tips" post with the RVS info (based on 15)
yet he still goes out of his way to make his RVS vote look un-scummy
10 is unnecessary (again looks like he's concerned with how he's viewed)
15 the "I guess" is noncommitall and the whole post is a missed opportunity to engage with his accuser (GL)
16 here he kinda engages with GL but in an appeasing way that is non-committal and approval seeking

[TTTT]

@Muh - when you get back in here let's talk about Thespio

[TTTT]

@CsBlastoise
I know it's early
but if you had to pick one scum right now
who it be?

Too soon to say.

c'mon
gun to your head who is scum?

[TTTT]

@chennis
just curious how you knew I was Loopdan

[TTTT]

you paying attention?

[TTTT]

lol I forgot about that
when did you see that?

[TTTT]

like did you realize that before, after, or during the time you were reading through 1912?

[TTTT]

ok thanks

[TTTT]

what TTTT game did you look through?

[TTTT]

May change vote to Muh due to "voting for salt"

do you think scum is more likely to "vote for salt" than town?

You're right, RVS is a bad way to scumread. I'll wait for more content before I can really say who scum is.

bc it's the only way to kill scum

Its also a good way to kill town.

good point, better not vote or lynch anybody then I guess

If you're town, you should probably cut the sarcasm. It'll only make scum happy.

And I need to keep a note of this because this is the first scummy thing I've seen a person I consider towny to do. This isn't very substantive yet, but good to remember.

@CsBlastoise
I know it's early
but if you had to pick one scum right now
who it be?

Too soon to say.

good point, better not vote or lynch anybody then I gues

Im not saying lets no vote, im saying lets not lynch someone 1 day into the game after a very newbie set of posts.

Yeah, we need more than five one-liners, one of which was an EBWOP, to justify a lynch on anyone. That being said, if chen doesn't add much soon, a case could be made for lurking.

Thank you for pointing out the possibility that Thespio's actions could be scummy. I think the main part of it I agree with is not so much that TTTT is trying to push something, but that

the things TTTT may be pointing out might just be "newbies trying to learn to play."

but how can you agree on this when you don't know what "things" TTTT is pointing out or why he thinks they're scummy? You asked him if he found chen scummy and he said yes, but then you decided not to follow up, that's what I'm trying to understand. …

Maybe a better way to respond to TTTT would have been, "Well, I think it looks more like newbie behavior than scum behavior, but, knowing that you have more experience than I do, I would not be surprised if you picked up on something I may not have." But yes, now I'm realizing that I should ask @TTTT, just what is it in Chen's minimal content that you find scummy?

And you agreed with Thespio who seemed to be more against the idea of pressuring chendennis for what he's posted at all.

That being said, I do think we should investigate chen more, particularly by asking him directly for input and getting some participation from him — I mean, come on, he's only got five posts so far, and each one was only one line long (not counting the quote in one of them).

maybe I'm being unfair here, but if you want to ask him for input/participation, why not do that yourself?

Sure.
@Chennisden, what do you have to say about these reads on you? Anything you have to say for yourself?

(even though Thespio seems to want to sell that narrative)
b

Im not trying to sell anything, you are saying he is newb scum, im teasing you because it seems silly to jump on a newbie for their first couple posts, but to solve this...

@Chen what is you background in mafia games?

About these reads: TTTT seems to be the head of my wagon (though he is advising not to lynch, not even the most beginner of scum would say "yes lynch" on D1). Given he scumread me off of basically nothing, something tells me he's trying to get me killed while trying not to look like he's getting me killed. Of course there isn't that much to go off of, but rn my strongest scumread is TTTT.

And my background in mafia games - I've read 2 or 3 games to completion, including one with Thespio and Loopdan (though I won't be able to meta well, two birds with one stone right?). However, this is my first time playing.

PEDIT:
@Guilty yes I am aware TTTT=Loopdan. I'm not sure if he wanted it to be kept secret-ish (though on second thought he literally reveals).

And I looked at 1912 because TTTT and Thespio were in the same game and it was recent. Considering that 1912 was the only time Thespio rolled scum, it was in my opinion the most informative to read.

At this point I think hard tunneling is scum. Though I'm not very confident on TTTT scum, I do want to note that saying "don't lynch someone in <24 hrs" doesn't make him town. Even the most stupid scum wouldn't say "Hey let's kill town D1," and given TTTT is experienced he may have thought it good to establish towncred early.

So you've seen me at my best and my worst

[TTTT]

that quote was being saved for later

[TTTT]

And my background in mafia games - I've read 2 or 3 games to completion, including one with Thespio and Loopdan (though I won't be able to meta well, two birds with one stone right?). However, this is my first time playing.

PEDIT:
@Guilty yes I am aware TTTT=Loopdan. I'm not sure if he wanted it to be kept secret-ish (though on second thought he literally reveals).

And I looked at 1912 because TTTT and Thespio were in the same game

and it was recent. Considering that 1912 was the only time Thespio rolled scum, it was in my opinion the most informative to read.

@chennis

just curious how you knew I was Loopdan

like did you realize that before, after, or during the time you were reading through 1912

?

I looked through a game including you before this one started. I checked your profile and was surprised to learn you are Loop.

after 1912

something doesn't add up here

[TTTT]

can you do me a quick favor?

[TTTT]

say hi to muh for me in your scumchat
thx

[TTTT]

man you are all over the place

[TTTT]

But I think TTTT has a point with Muh. If others think this is TvT, I think we gotta go for Muh.

what exactly is the point about Muh that you think I'm trying to make here?
and why do you agree with whatever that point is?

[TTTT]

no, I don't think his inactivity is scummy
it's still really early in the game

I made that comment about saying hi to muh in your scumchat because...
there's a world where you and muh are scum and he told you something like "hey you should go read Newbie 1912 bc Thespio and TTTT (as Loopdan) are in that game"
this is similar to GL's theory but seems more likely your partner would be muh because you left him out when you gave your reason for reading 1912
to be clear:

this is an unlikely theory and not something I would push your lynch for

but it will stroke my ego if true
so I made the comment

[TTTT]

and there's no ICs anymore so I'll say it:
it's a bad idea to scumhunt based on associations between players until you start getting some alignment reveals

[TTTT]

I can buy town!chennisden backwards-justifying why he was reading that other game
it's a bit suspicious cuz he doesn't mention Muh (who was also in that game)
but it's possibly a town mistake
I wanna move on from that
particularly because 140 is much worse than anything else he's written

[TTTT]

At this point I think me/TTTT have given each other enough info to justify trying to pressure others.

And are you srsly scumreading me for scumreading you

Anyway, we gotta put some pressure on Muh. If he's not scum he'll prove it through his statements.

VOTE: muh316

No
I'm SRing you for saying you are SRing me...
and then in the next sentence finding a really odd justification to move your vote off of me

[TTTT]

New read on TTTT: Scum.

He's making his stuff hard to understand to town. He has no real reason to scumread me.

Literally his only evidence is me forgetting something. Yet he's acting very scummy - posting stuff with little explanation, most of stuff he posts is sarcastic, etc.

But I think TTTT has a point with Muh. If others think this is TvT, I think we gotta go for Muh.

[TTTT]

chennis
let me know what posts are hard to understand
I'm not trying to be confusing

[TTTT]

I’m having flashbacks

to what?

[TTTT]

TTTT my vote was never on you. I dont want to OMGUS you.

you are right. my mistake.
but why out a SR on me
and then

immediately

give credence to scum!muh?
like I didn't even make a case on muh and you were ready to jump on him

[TTTT]

TTTT my vote was never on you. I dont want to OMGUS you.

so are you SRing me but won't vote me because I'm voting you?
if I'm scum why are you concerned with it looking like OMGUS?

[TTTT]

I'd like to talk about stuff other than chennis
but nobody else is here...

[TTTT]

Where is muh anyways? I hope they are still around. Not engaging at all to me is a huge red flag.

Same goes for SaintAngel

do you have any thoughts on chennis and me?
and out interactions over the past few pages?

[TTTT]

here's some advice for new players:
if you are town...
you may be wary of posting your thoughts
bc you're worried you might get jumped on for sounding scummy
don't worry about that!
it's better that you are open and transparent with your thoughts
there are some good players in this game who are likely to figure out you are town
even if you say an occasional weird thing
townhunting is how most newbie games are won
and we can't townhunt if you are reserved
if you are scum...
try and mimic the above
we'll still find you

[TTTT]

I'm here! What would you like to discuss this morning, kind sir?

I'm kinda curious
what have you done to prep for this game
like either before it started or since it has begun

[TTTT]

I'm here! What would you like to discuss this morning, kind sir?

I'm kinda curious
what have you done to prep for this game
like either before it started or since it has begun

Nothing, honestly (for one thing, I didn't have a chance before it started because I was picked as a replacement and then I just dove in headfirst). I don't even know what one might do for prep (I'm new-ish, remember).

thx that's helpful

you agreed with me that chenn seems to be all over the place
do you think this is more likely to be town who is legit trying to sort people
or
scum trying to keep options open?

[TTTT]

i dont think scummuh is likely, but i want to put pressure on him. im just saying itd be stupid if we didnt pressure him at all

i guess my problem is that your vote does nothing to pressure muh if he isn't here
while you could be voting your stated scumread (me) right now
putting someone at L-2 is not a big deal
if you are town all you have is your voice and your vote

[TTTT]

muh316 has requested replacement.

requested

that's gonna fuck with my head

[TTTT]

yes I agree with TTTT, if I get lynched for poor play its a sign i need to get better.

did I say that?
it sounds like something I might say
but I'm trying to be more hospitable in newbie games
and I don't remember saying that

[TTTT]

Could be either. I'll need the game to progress a bit before getting a better read.

I'm concerned that you don't seem to have any relevant thoughts about the game
other than we should pressure inactive players

[TTTT]

URAP
plz be town

[TTTT]

I agree, it's even slightly annoying to myself that I don't want to commit to a read.

Also, I have other things on my mind rn, like MeatWorld responsibilities.

but even with meatworld responsibilities you are finding time to post frequently
just not time to give any thoughts

[TTTT]

to be fair you agreed with me that chenn is all over the place
but I'm not sure what else you think about this game
everything is "could be this... could be that" and null

[TTTT]

^for CsBlast

[TTTT]

@URAP
I mostly want to hear from you if you think any of these newer players are town-telling yet
usually I can pick up an early TR or two on newbies
but I got nothing rn

[TTTT]

@chenn
can you explain your TR on CsBlast?

[TTTT]

New read on TTTT: Scum.

He's making his stuff hard to understand to town. He has no real reason to scumread me.

Literally his only evidence is me forgetting something. Yet he's acting very scummy - posting stuff with little explanation, most of stuff he posts is sarcastic, etc.

But I think TTTT has a point with Muh. If others think this is TvT, I think we gotta go for Muh.

GL give your thoughts on this plz

[TTTT]

I can buy town!chennisden backwards-justifying why he was reading that other game
it's a bit suspicious cuz he doesn't mention Muh (who was also in that game)
but it's possibly a town mistake
I wanna move on from that
particularly because 140 is much worse than anything else he's written

Catch and Release only fishing today at the lake I guess??

is this gonna be like the scum!Salami thing
where I talked myself out of it
and then you made a great case and we lynched him?

...except I'm still SRing chennis
just not too much from that

[TTTT]

Yes, but NSMA should be a very very weak townread. I feel you and TTTT are towning him too hard on little evidence.

for the record:
I never said I was TRing NotMy

[TTTT]

and then I just read 254
and ok yeah he's a townlean now

[TTTT]

@Thespio
how is that a scumtell?
I will argue it's a pretty townie-looking move
scum tries to evade responsibility
but they usually don't avoid openly admitting it like this by saying they are sheeping their TRs

[TTTT]

EBWOP:
...but they usually don't openly admit it like this by saying they are sheeping their TRs

[TTTT]

Thespio plz tell me every thought you've ever had about chennis
thx

[TTTT]

TTTT just for fucking up last game i'll do what u want rn, where do u want me to vote

no worries
I think we need to hear more from Thespio
but if you wanna L-1 chennis I see no harm

[TTTT]

@Thespio
you just said NotMy scum-claimed
but your vote is still on GL from RVS

[TTTT]

chennis
plz post a full reads list
just names with your read and maybe a sentence for each
plz don't go into a lot of detail
if you are town this will help sort you

[TTTT]

@TTTT and @GL how are you guys feeling rn

a bit gassy
I ate a big slice of cheesecake last night
without considering how much dairy is in it

[TTTT]

hmmm...
chennis has a strong scum post here (328 - inconsistent with the amount of pregame prep he did)
and a strong town post (338 - looks naturally townie by way of not knowing my or URAP's alignments)
overall this still seems like a good wagon
But I'm in no hurry to lynch

[TTTT]

when did you play with town TTTT?

[TTTT]

Mini Normal 2053
forgot you were in this one bc you were replaced early

[TTTT]

@Thespio
if you wanna meta case look at my newbies
that Normal I was mason

[TTTT]

something is off with this game

[TTTT]

if I'm being real honest
I'm just not into a chennis lynch rn
just not sure where I wanna go next

[TTTT]

my notes say
town!chennis = town!NotMy & town!Echo
not sure why
probably how the wagon formed

[TTTT]

I might be PoE to the Noodle wagon
or NotMy
CSblast's posts are the most honest from the newbies
chennis is a fucking chimera
Thespio is playing odd but can be sorted later
URAP & GL are not day1 lynches
Echo I don't think I can read with much confidence so hopefully he just gets NK'd and sorted that way

[TTTT]

I don't have a single strong TR

[TTTT]

my notes say
town!chennis = town!NotMy & town!Echo
not sure why
probably how the wagon formed

i think im in agreement on town!chennis = town!echo

but why town!NMSA?

I don't remember
I take terrible notes
let me check the timestamp in my PT and compare to the game posts

[TTTT]

my notes say
town!chennis = town!NotMy & town!Echo
not sure why
probably how the wagon formed

i think im in agreement on town!chennis = town!echo

but why town!NMSA?

Found it...
254
I don't see scum!NotMy openly sheeping the third vote onto a mislynch
I read that post as genuine

[TTTT]

and looking at it now
I'm not sure scum!NotMy does that as bussing to scum!chennis either
so I guess I'm TRing NotMy
even though it feels icky

[TTTT]

I have a defense when I know people are wagoning me for the wrong reasons, especially when it will hurt the town.

what would be a correct reason to wagon you?

[TTTT]

I think he learned from his first game (as scum) about what looks like acting
I think if he rolled scum here he would be playing it super safe and try not to stick out

[TTTT]

scum!NotMy would know he'd look scummy if chennis town-flipped and his only reason to be on the wagon was sheeping

[TTTT]

@Noodle
let's start here...
out of those who are voting you or talking about maybe doing that (me)
whose motives are you the most suspicious of and why?

[TTTT]

good point
could still be a mislynch
could be scum caught off-guard by how fast it collapsed?
they wouldn't want to quickhammer a mislynch

[TTTT]

Intent to Hammer

Noodle plz claim your role

[TTTT]

if she flips red the partner is another newbie
otherwise she would have fake-claimed to out PR

[TTTT]

I'll wait to hammer
everyone who wasn't here needs to chime in

[TTTT]

you nerds wrote 106 posts in the time it took me to drive home from work

[TTTT]

FINALLY Thespio does something

[TTTT]

someone should intend to hammer chennis so we can get his fake-claim out of the way

[TTTT]

ou nerds wrote 106 posts in the time it took me to drive home from work

read u r a person 2 and post your thoughts.

I'm caught up
what don't you like other him thinking you are chennis' partner?

[TTTT]

someone should intend to hammer chennis so we can get his fake-claim out of the way

I'll go ahead and hammer myself, screw it. VOTE: Chennisden

you should know better
we got no claim

[TTTT]

chennis if you are here what's the flip don't leave us in suspense!

[TTTT]

TTTT, why is what I just did a good idea when you did it to MJL in 1915, but a bad idea now?

shush

[TTTT]

yep

[TTTT]

What the fuck was that lolhammer?

if you're town give us final reads

[TTTT]

why do you need to do that before you give out your reads?

[TTTT]

the mod will lock the thread as soon he realizes you're hammered
we are in twilight and need your info fast if town

[TTTT]

i want to know if i can say what role i am

we'll know soon enough
your reads are more important right now

[TTTT]

like if you are scum just say it
the suspense is killing me

[TTTT]

lol

[TTTT]

first time I've ever seen that work

[TTTT]

who isn't on that wagon who can hammer?

[TTTT]

NotMy is conftown

[TTTT]

NotMy was already voting Chenn for anybody who isn't in the know.
someone needs to hammer

[TTTT]

or we can just chill
and talk some more
might be a better idea

[TTTT]

here's the thing...
we have 0% confidence that you are telling the truth here
so if Cs is your partner you have that going for you

[TTTT]

that "wrong thread lol" post was fakefakefake

[TTTT]

yeah we'll talk post-game chennis
fun playing with you
you ran into a solid town in your first game as scum
sorry about that

[TTTT]

Thespio you better town it up tomorrow if you town
you are default lynch right now

[TTTT]

Thespio you better town it up tomorrow if you town
you are default lynch right now

Rude. I think we both know I am town, Im going to need to reread because this flip kindof changes my reads.

not rude
I'm trying to help town!you

[TTTT]

ah I'm jealous of people who feel this way, I used to like scum when I first started but the more I play the harder it is for me to muster up the energy/effort to play scum truly well, and I've noticed it's starting to become a meta tell on myself regarding the level of effort I can put in as town vs scum, which just makes future scum games even more taxing

^this is me too
I hate rolling scum

[TTTT]

sounds reasonable

[TTTT]

CsBlast
FYI - you don't have to say ninja every time you crosspost
but honestly at this point I think you should because it's kinda your thing now

[TTTT]

Thespio is the lynch today
but we aren't rushing this
and that NK makes me go hmmm too

[TTTT]

so I've been worried that the Csblast NK was some kinda 4d chess
and that means GL or URAP could be scum
but I think it's more likely Thespio killed Cs because chennis' WIFOM move wasn't believed
and he thought that made CsBlast conftown

VOTE: Thespio

[TTTT]

I find it odd a cop just flipped, he was read parrellel with me, now they’re dead when the split was between us... any chance scum popped him to ensure my lynch? Just asking someone to explain why scum me would kill him.

so that you could open day2 with this post

[TTTT]

I just finished a chennis+Thespio ISO
if a Thespio lynch doesn't end this game
there are 3 scum

[TTTT]

yet you don't vote him

[TTTT]

a joke

[TTTT]

he's at L-1
plz wait until everyone posts before hammering

[TTTT]

Thanks for modding Micc
Flawless modding as always!
please release my PT

Town did great!
the SEs killed it and the newbie townies did great too once everything got rolling

sorry for the tough loss scum-team
you guys were playing against a stacked deck here

[TTTT]

sorry for the tough loss scum-team
you guys were playing against a stacked deck here

Beat you last time though :p until next time

that was Loopdan
doesn't count

[TTTT]

i saw the lolhammer but didn't want to give it away and i could've SWORN TTTT and NMSA gave it away and that was the last thing i read before i went to work and i was like MOTHER FUCKERRRRRR YOU DWEEBS but it's okay it worked out i suppose...

NMSA and URAP gave it away
then we pushed to a pagetop and NMSA and I tried to cover it up
still can't believe we pulled that off