In post 0, Mathdino wrote:Pre-game, the mafia must submit a kill list of all town players. They may update this kill list at any point during the game.
I also saw the same person can't be protected twice, so I'd rather keep the options of the big name people open for day 2, so having Chemist around day 2 seems alright to me. Or we can do the double protect if nessecary.
Also nice to know that we know who's poisoned AFTER the protect phase but before the lynch. So we can discuss the poisoned target during then.
I made a GTKAS. Go shitpost in it if you want. It's very lonely.
"Even when I leave mafia and play an entirely different game I can't escape you you menace." - North/Wenya
Actually since mafia can change the kill list at any time that means protect is a wifom bomb because they can just move our planned protected target to the bottom.
Also scum will keep their names out of the top since poisoning them is a bad idea.
Im voting who I feel is the strongest player. I dont think mafia will poison PP or Chemist to start off and honestly Id welcome them to do so tbh.
Im not voting anyone who selfed, because I dont like it, hence the worse vote.
The rules also basically say "first unprotected player". So... It'll just go down a list anyway. Which is why I was wondering if they had locked in a list during the pre-phase.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
No I'm pinging your activity to try shenanigans VOTE: the worst
I am pretty sure the revelation that the list can be moved mean if 1 of the mafia are active they can dilute the Monty Hall information element out of the setup. I'm not sure if I'm counting it wrong, but I'm 90% sure, it's hard because MH is a paradox
please lolhammer one of the more active players with me, the worst seems like the best target. We get at least a little info with respect to slower people like Bingle and pp
gogogo
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
i'll super refresh it doesn't have to be tw but Nubers doesn't show as online to me right now and they are currently voting tw so it'd be good for a nubers bingle or nubers pp team
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
because nubers is voting tw but it's a vanity protect wagon atm
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
also i'll spam post because both bingle and pp would put off reading the thread longer if it seems like there's more to have to read
not salamence though I think he'd eat that ish up
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
I should paste in a mastina wall post from a completed game to increase anxiety about having to read the game
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
In post 6479, Pink Ball wrote:Misrep my ass, mastina, you're being hypocritical with your reads because you "know your alignment".
There is no hypocrisy involved in fucking knowing that the players who have seen my fucking play should have EVERY fucking reason to know DAMN good and well that this is my towngame through and through.
I have never had a scumgame even remotely close to this one in any way shape or form.
I have had literally half a dozen if not a dozen towngames which have been this way.
Yes, it is true.
"scumastina can do anything, therefore nothing she does is town".
Yes, it is true.
"scumastina likes to do new things so this could be the first time she's done it as scum".
I can't deny those because they are on a fundamental level true--scumastina has an incredibly wide scum rage and because of my tendency to mimic my towngame as scum, anything I've done as town I can theoretically do as scum.
Theoretically.
But at some point, a combination of occam's razor and pure and simple sheer probability comes into play.
Yes, any play is possible to be scumastina, so it's possible that this is a first time level performance from scumastina.
Possible.
But if you look at what is actually probable.
Then any player who has played with me in the last fucking YEAR would know that this is my fucking towngame.
Because just because scumastina can theoretically do something doesn't mean she actually will, or even could.
The way my mind is wired as scum means that there are some things which, while I could theoretically do them as scum, in actuality, in practice, I can't actually fucking do them because the thought to do them never fucking occurs. As scum I have default patterns. I have default habits. I have default tendencies. And even when I deliberately think, even when I deliberately modify them, even when I deliberately go out of my way to change these habits.
They are small changes.
I can change one aspect of my scumgame to resemble my towngame.
I can't fucking change EVERY fucking aspect of my scumgame to match my towngame.
And this is every fucking aspect of my towngame.
I can link to many of my recent towngames where I have played like I have in this game.
You'll never find a scumgame where I've played like I have in this game because they don't fucking exist. They COULD in theory exist, this COULD, in theory, be the first. But in actual fucking practice no it fucking can't because while I am a good scum player I am not that fucking much of a master where I can pull off this level of performance.
My thoughts, my tone, my reads, my reasons, what I've done, what I've posted, my emotions, my feelings, my stances, my investment, my pushes, my role usage, my role claim, my approach. These are things which I can individually replicate but this isn't one individual replication. This is the whole fucking packaged deal.
And everyone who has played with me fucking KNOWS it.
So yes.
I have damn fucking good basis for scumreading the players who have played with me who should fucking know this is my towngame.
In post 6479, Pink Ball wrote: The way you're dealing with the duck reminds me of that schadd's game where we mislynched him om D1 because of you.
Oh let's look at my content from that game, shall we? Let's compare, because this is utterly bullshit false as fuck because there is NO fucking way you think my push in this game...
In post 118, Nibbui wrote:Ok Mastina you're beginning to sound like scum!Mastina. Why is TW always 100% scum here?
If I cared about how I looked, I might put in the effort to give you a rundown here, but I honestly don't.
When I feel like telling you why the worst is scum, I will tell you.
It just doesn't feel like the right time.
I
can
force an explanation when it doesn't feel like the right time.
I vastly prefer not to.
If you can't accept that, then vote me, sure, but it'll change nothing; I'm not backing down from this. I'll explain when I feel like it, not when others dictate it. And right now I feel like being semiserious rather than fully serious, so.
This is a great example demonstrating the difference between my approach as town and my approach as scum. Here in that game there was bravado. False bravado. "I don't care how I look". Here in this game yes I absofuckinglutely do fucking care.
The way I explained my lack of explanation is different as well.
In that game, I was being lazy because I didn't want to put in the effort to explain a read I knew wasn't right.
In this game, I've been lazy because I didn't want to go into the great time and effort required...but in spite of that, I still gave content, still gave feedback, in spite of not wanting to, because it's a read that I think could actually be fucking right. That game where I was scum I gave no explanation; this game I gave partial explanation even though I have said and it's true that there's more to it than what I've explained.
In post 142, sheepsaysmeep wrote:mastina do you have any past v games/can you link me to them if you do where you act in this way like "idc what you think im going to blatantly not answer your question" or smtg like that
Sure do, but frankly I play so many games that I honestly just...don't remember what happened in which games for the most part pretty much. If I spent time to :effort: in this I could probably track down at least ten such links. But it would in fact be effort.
Not helping is that pretty much the only times I've been town have been either replacements or on alts (actually even the alts are mostly replacements), so this is literally the first game where I've been town from the start in over a year. Maybe even MORE than over a year. (Also not helping? There is absolutely nothing that scumastina
can't
do. There are things she won't do, but overall, HUGE number of past games + LARGE number of scumgames--especially recently-- = most of what you'd see is pretty worthless.)
I just feel like playing this way, because it's just.
Kinda loose. And I like it.
This was all but a scumclaim admitting "yeah I'm scum this game because I need to be doing this in order to have any semblance of fun in the game because I wouldn't be having fun if I were playing seriously".
In post 155, Nibbui wrote:Also Mastina I know you love to be somewhat scummy when you are town in order to help you in your future scum games but if you're town here you might be overdoing it a bit
You apparently have a very off impression of my playstyle if you think that is even
remotely
what I do in games.
My scumgame is strong enough on its own merit that my towngame need not be weakened in order for me to stand strong as a scum player. I am remarkably competent as scum.
It's the other way around in fact--I copy my scumgame as town, not to weaken my towngame and strengthen my scumgame. But rather. To strengthen my towngame.
You
just
saw me gamethrow by tunneling town and rapid-voting them in lylo and refusing to unvote when given the opportunity. That was in a game where I said I was not very invested.
But you're the one who literally invited me to play in this game--I am invested here. I
am
taking this game seriously.
Just...in my way.
This is an example of me defending myself when I am scum.
You cannot fucking say that the example of me defending myself in that game is anything even remotely fucking similar to how I've defended myself this game.
That goes back to a very simple fundamental.
scumastina can't get mad about correct scumreads on her because she knows they are correct. How can I be mad at someone who has me correctly pegged?
And because I can't fake anything. Can't fake anger. Can't fake claims. Can't fake at all. That means I can't be mad at someone who is dead on the money. I can still try to mislead them. Tell them that what they think is true is mistaken, even when what they think is true is in fact true. I can take advantage of anything which they are legitimately mistaken about. When they are legitimately mistaken about something it gives me an edge to be honest and I can manipulate that to help alleviate the pressure on me.
But you can't fucking say that's what I've done this game for good fucking reason.
In post 162, Nibbui wrote:I mean, you could actually just say "I don't feel like explaining right now" (I even asked "or you wouldn't like to explain right now?") but you insist on saying that you "don't care about how you look" and "Other don't dictate when I explain things" what's are some very extra lines here. Don't think it's outside of what town!Mastina can say (and I don't have a good feel on your meta anyway) but something to mull over on I guess.
Oh I could say something like that, but that would be succinct of me.
I am many things; succinct is never among them. (Well. Except for two games where I deliberately self-imposed it as a challenge. Hilariously? I got dayvigged both games D1. ) I will explain things in my own way, taking as many words as I deem necessary to get the right message across. It might help your understanding of me for you to know that I am autistic; I don't process information in a normal way.
My brain is literally hardwired so that the simple solution/words people use, aren't what I know. I know the long way. I know numerous different things, not helped by crossing the streams. I've learned to harness this power, to make the most of it, accept it as a part of me, utilize its advantages, but sorry to disappoint you if you were expecting me to be a beacon of coolness.
In post 167, skitter30 wrote:i feel like you're purposefully not answering questions or trying to help people understand what you're thinking
Of course I'm not answering questions.
If I felt like answering questions, I would be answering questions.
If I wanted people to understand what I was thinking, I would make effort to make them understand what I am thinking.
But I don't want to make that effort, for a specific reason.
This is actually the most serious thing I've said.
I've been messing around a lot, I've been just talking, having some fun, being casual, while dropping hints, while giving some semblance of an idea of what I mean, but to be dead serious and drop the jokiness altogether.
I'm wanting people to do a few particular things, mostly related (I almost said "one particular thing" before realizing it's not actually just one), but which take time and this strategy to go about with.
I mean half the reason I didn't want people to understand what I was thinking was that I was scum thinking the town had the game won.
In post 188, skitter30 wrote:i do want to know why she's so certain you're scum tho because i'm not feeling it rn
I'm looking for Nibbui's response to this btw because Nibbui should have a mindset on it.
In post 190, Nibbui wrote:I think Mastina saying "TW is scum, 100% of the time here" is more alignment indicative than her whole attitude about explaining it or not tbh.
You are right!
That is one of the most alignment indicative things I have said.
You are also wrong!
You seemed to be reading my statement that "the worst is scum, 100% of the time" as an indicator of confidence--
it wasn't
.
You have a really big hint now what I'm getting at now, yes?
In post 117, mastina wrote:northsidegal is, 100% of the time, always town.
the worst is, 100% of the time, always scum.
What I am specifically saying is that you need to reread this and think of it from a different perspective.
This was not a statement that northsidegal is 100% town this game and that the worst is 100% scum this game.
I may get my words messed up when I'm not particularly fluent (like right now, kinda not-lucid), but by and large? Exact words are a favorite of mine; I mean exactly what I say.
In post 220, Nibbui wrote:If you're actually serious though I'll trust you have something good on mind if you're town.
Oh I do, trust me.
Right now my mind is working at a million miles an hour, and I have a feeling of "I got this".
The problem is that by the time I come to explain that, it'll have crashed and burned and I'll be sifting through the wreckage going, "I KNOW I had this brilliant strategy/plan/thought, but...I can't remember it, dammit!" leading to you being underwhelmed.
That incidentally is also a succinct demonstration of an answer for why I copy my scumgame; no need to wait until postgame for me to tell you that's what I mean--my scumgame has scum PTs so I can document and record the important stuff whereas when town I don't, even though I could use one right now.
Basically, yes, I do have something good on my mind right now, but I can't figure out a way to explain it right now without ruining it, and I'm terrified that by the time I can, I'll have lost it.
In post 226, Nibbui wrote:alignment talk aside I like Mastina's surreal posts. It's kind of unique really, I can't remember having seen anyone have a similar playstyle and I find her walls entertaining.
I've been practicing this for ten years; I've refined it to an art.
I actually advised Gamma on some tips recently which make use of what I've more or less mastered.
If you can call verbosity something that's a skill, at least. (Basically, there's tricks to wordflow. I make heavy use of alliteration and rhymes, but not just "one word starts with c, another word also starts with c"; it can be different ones altogether which just are similar. For instance, the syllable of 'one' is similar to the syllable of 'which' in mouthing, so the effect is there. I've done it for so long that it's become subconscious. Word vomit it may be, but it's
smartly done
word vomit. Most of the time. )
In post 232, Nibbui wrote:wait is it just a pun? also are you perhaps cutely-badmouthing tw in a cute way? and it all being a reaction test?
At least one of these is on the right track!
In post 228, the worst wrote:I think i c wat u did thar mastina but I'll be holding my silence
I appreciate the sentiment, but do tell within like. 48 hours or so.
mastina wrote:Alright, am back. I think I'm calm enough to do this without ranting (
especially since there's nothing in this game to my knowledge that'd tick me off
), but alas. I regret to inform you that the whimsical feeling of messing around isn't with me right now--I actually feel like being completely serious right now, so gimme a sec, I'll be explaining what I was doing and then catch up on all the pages I've yet to read (which I think is like...30. ).
Bolded highlighted for good fucking reason.
You know WHY there wouldn't be anything that'd tick me off?
Because I was scum being correctly scumread for the right reasons and I can't be ticked off at being scumread correctly.
That post was all but a scumclaim as a result.
This fucking game I have EVERY fucking reason to be ticked off.
In post 114, mastina wrote:northsidegal
Pink Ball
Nibbui
InfiniteSoda
sheepsaysmeep
skitter30
podoboq
the worst
This was in fact a serious readslist, for a start--at the time that it was posted, I had read up to that point but pretty much everything past the first page, my eyes had glossed over, not really properly processing so much as just scanning, reading, and that was that. But I still had an
awareness
of all 113 prior posts. Yet this was still made in the context of, "from the first page, pretty much, supported loosely by the following".
In post 117, mastina wrote:northsidegal is, 100% of the time, always town. the worst is, 100% of the time, always scum.
Never doubt it.
When people quoted this, they seemed to forget the most important part of the quote--the bolded. The bolded phrase here, "never doubt it". Is never something said seriously--it's a deadpan snark. I was referring specifically to how, 100% of the time, no matter how much you may think she's scum, northsidegal is pretty much always 100% of the time actually town. With an undertone of how even when she is scum, she is
still
town.
It then figures that the same was true of the worst--I was referring to how, disproportionately, the worst draws scum role PMs time and time again, and is almost always the last anti-town that the town is suspicious of. Yet when he is town, people tend to still think he is scum, especially me, in part due to paranoia of knowing just how good his scumgame can be. So it can be said that, no matter how much you may think he's town, he's scum, 100% of the time, even if his role PM says otherwise.
...But
in spite of that
.
My vote was placed on the worst--if this were 100% a joke read, I'd not have done that, and kept it there.
My readslist, as I mentioned, was based primarily on the first page, albeit subsidized partially by the later pages. (You were meant to think it was entirely from the first page, and I'm surprised nobody made that callout--I was quoting something from the first page when I made the readslist and I
usually
read chronologically, so that means that USUALLY I am quoting as far as I've read. So I was EXPECTING someone to think I was on the first page, even though in the case of this game, I wasn't. But I digress. MY POINT WAS...)
The reason for these reads, if you look at it, is pretty self-evident:
This was an entirely clinical RVS entrance--it is constructed, rather than organic. There was an overall lack of whimsy to it, and no real lighthearted touch. However, skitter is a more logical-type player, so while I wasn't fond of it, I recognized that because of who made the post, it wasn't as scum-indicative as I'd otherwise be inclined to think. This still earned skitter a low place on my readslist, below the nulline, but only just.
Thanks for that. Probably not gonna be here until Wednesday. As such, not gonna RVS. Happy holidays peeps. See you in a few days.
This felt worse than skitter's entrance because it was even more clinical, and yet lacked the personality justification. podoboq is not a player I'd associate with that more "constructed" style of play when town, and would be someone I'd actually describe as a northsidegal-type of inquisitive: pushing forward, but lighthearted when doing so. This just felt entirely too serious, and he felt the need to correct a typo by making a follow-through post. It showed that he was paying close enough attention to realize he made a mistake, and yet, I'm meant to believe he wasn't paying close enough attention to form any sort of RVS? That he wouldn't be around for a couple of days was no excuse; you can always remove an RVS vote when you get back if need be.
In post 11, Nibbui wrote:You shouldn't suddenly wagon me like that because I almost thought someone already had a Night 0 guilty on me! Please don't scare me like that, I get very tense as scum even for silly reasons.
Now excuse me, let me try to mislynch town huh
*I* might be this cheeky as a scumfuck, but Nibbui doesn't strike me as the type. This felt incredibly lighthearted and whimsical, to the point of being incredibly town. I felt that this was an incredibly natural way to respond to the page 1 pressure. A casual joke, one which felt entirely appropriate for the phase of the game at the time.
The analysis followthrough in 14 is more or less the type I'd expect from Nibbui as well. It is precisely the strength I'd expect, it is precisely the method I'd expect, it is just as hard as I'd expect, just as light as I'd expect, just as casual as I'd expect. Entirely fluent, organic, natural analysis of the situation at hand, but not putting too much stock in it. I also loved this banter:
In post 17, Nibbui wrote:Pink Ball I know we planned for you to claim cop and have a guilty on me in the scum chat but it leave it to later really
maybe in day 2 or something
In post 11, Nibbui wrote:You shouldn't suddenly wagon me like that because I almost thought someone already had a Night 0 guilty on me!
I have a Night 0 guilty on this guy
This
instantly
made me think town. I didn't need to see the full interaction to make the conclusion; this alone was enough. That type of casual lighthearted fun was immensely town, but when paired with the actual vote, all the better--and there were in fact good reasons to vote the worst!
I quoted this post because the worst's focus on being town felt overly forced, and his vote on Nibbui felt like it was uncreative and unoriginal. It was just kinda...there. 10 was also forced, being a second-rate imitation of my patented town town? scum? scum style of introductory reads. 13 felt like fluff that was meant to look like the worst was doing something when he wasn't, messing around under the illusion of content. I didn't think the worst would be scum with skitter due to 22, but I did think that interaction painted the worst as more likely to be scum and Nibbui as a beacon of township (especially in tandem with 21). 24 was also ridiculously forced as well; it was blatantly obvious that it was forcing scumminess to be there where there was none to be found, and yet I detected absolutely no hint of self-awareness about this: no glint of being whimsical about it, that he knew he was BSing.
In post 188, skitter30 wrote:i do want to know why she's so certain you're scum tho because i'm not feeling it rn
I'm looking for Nibbui's response to this btw because Nibbui should have a mindset on it.
In post 190, Nibbui wrote:I think Mastina saying "TW is scum, 100% of the time here" is more alignment indicative than her whole attitude about explaining it or not tbh.
You are right!
That is one of the most alignment indicative things I have said.
You are also wrong!
You seemed to be reading my statement that "the worst is scum, 100% of the time" as an indicator of confidence--
it wasn't
.
You have a really big hint now what I'm getting at now, yes?
So given what I just explained, you'll have a better idea of where this was coming from, especially when paired with:
In post 117, mastina wrote:northsidegal is, 100% of the time, always town. the worst is, 100% of the time, always scum.
What I am specifically saying is that you need to reread this and think of it from a different perspective. This was not a statement that northsidegal is 100% town this game and that the worst is 100% scum this game.
Exact words are a favorite of mine; I mean exactly what I say.
(I did
not
say "100% town
this game
". I said "100% town", without specifying this game--thus, it was not a statement specific to this game.)
saw me gamethrow by tunneling town and rapid-voting them in lylo and refusing to unvote when given the opportunity. That was in a game where I said I was not very invested.
But you're the one who literally invited me to play in this game--I am invested here. I
am
taking this game seriously.
Just...in my way.
^This one in particular. The game in question is Open 741: Red Flag, a game the worst and northsidegal also would share familiarity with.
Fun fact about that game is that I replaced into the worst's slot, thinking it was a scum slot.
But what I am particularly getting at is, in the game in question, I explained in great length my mindset on my approach to scumreads:
In post 1153, Blackjacks wrote:are these unusually confident reads for you, or do you always do this?
Complicated, not a yes-or-no question, and the only way to address it is to talk about non-game stuff. In short, answer's irrelevant to the game, In the case of this game, I would say the best answer I have to give you is thus:
I am as sure as I can be,
given who I am
, that Gamma Emerald and AnonymousGhost are scum.
You won't get better than that in any game I ever play in.
I got the impression Nibbui had read that post--because Nibbui's invitation for me to play this game implied having been impressed with my process and wanting to see more.
This is also why I wanted the worst to explain--if he did know where I was coming from, he'd have been able to explain this; if he was just bullshitting, then he'd be wildly off-base.
Not so. We've played together on multiple occasions. Just because you don't remember it doesn't mean they didn't happen. I'd go search for them but they may involve alts so I'll just leave it as a generic "I have in fact played with you".
Also.
I read basically every Normal game, which I know you've played some of.
And I am involved in the moderation of some other games (mostly large themes), so I see you there, too.
You're not exactly someone I know intimately to soulreading levels, but you're far from someone I have no familiarity with. With the exception of Pink Ball, I've got extensive experience with every single player in this game. (Even if they don't realize it.)
In post 191, the worst wrote:mastina and I have played together 2? times I think (not discussing alts etc. etc.)
Pretending experience on alts doesn't count does you no favors. It absolutely does--and so, too, does my experience in games where I am not a player but am indirectly involved. (For instance, the aforementioned every-Normal-ever and many theme games.)
I mean, yeah, I play differently on alts than I do my main, and I do appreciate them not being outed--but pretending the experience doesn't exist is fallacious because the experience still forms a part of
my
view on players.
In post 56, sheepsaysmeep wrote:his confidence in thread and lamist ish attitude/how much he's engaging with me is really prominent in all his v games and it feels exactly like this
While my read on sheep is thoroughly meh, this meta is accurate in my experience. The way Nibbui is going around this game is precisely what I'd expect of him as town, albeit with the caveat that I don't actually have any knowledge that I can recollect of Nibbui's scum meta, so I can only speak for half the picture. (In other words, the meta read's weakened by me not being able to properly distinguish between playstyle tells and towntells, but is still matching the town games to a T, if that makes sense.)
In post 81, InfiniteSoda wrote:Just getting a quick vote in during my 5-minute internet access at the public library VOTE: Mastina
This was an utter wash as far as entrances go. It was fairly difficult for me to get a read on it. Him and sheep are, obviously, the strong points of null. sheep, due to having a complete mind numb on read (I read sheep's posts and utterly glossed over them, unable to really process them with an alignment in mind); him, due to this just being...there. It's not really something I'd say is scum, but it's also not something which screams town.
In post 89, northsidegal wrote:/lazyposting
{nsg}
{tw, sheep}
{skitter}
{everyone else}
{nibbui}
This readslist was exactly what she said it was: lazy. It's a pretty terrible readslist, but alignment-wise my thought on it was that it was completely and entirely, 100%, not alignment indicative either way. Given my prior townread on nsg tho, it wasn't really worth bringing up.
When I saw her interact with Nibbui more, I thought it was a fairly town-town interaction on both sides, tho--but because both were already topping my townreads
anyway
, I didn't really feel like emphasizing the fact.
When I say someone is town, I tend not to put special emphasis on them being town past that point--the sole exception to this is if the player I am calling town is at risk of being lynched. If they are close to being lynched, then, obviously, I need to emphasize why they are town to dissuade that outcome, but other than that, my feeling is mostly a "said once, then done". I said nsg and Nibbui were town, I was done.
(Scumreads, on the other hand--keep pushing them until they no longer are.)
Along the same lines:
In post 202, Pink Ball wrote:Oops spoilers, I should've used the spoiler tag for that, sorry
Pink Ball has been a townread and this line of posting only strengthened it further.
In post 123, the worst wrote:This is the lucidity I was lookin for last night
Did we roll t/t again? <3
If I had been playing seriously at the time I read this, I may have been able to explain why this felt scum, because I remember rather clearly being icked out by this, but I can't remember why--the feeling is still there, tho. It feels
wrong
.
In post 133, the worst wrote:I'm not really in the mood to talk thru my view on rvs but I feel Nibbui is a little lukewarm on pg3
it's towny tho and not bad just..ok
In post 77, skitter30 wrote:^^^^ the already gives off the connotation that a guilty wouldn't be the wrong result, that you kinda think that there's a possibility that this may happen in the future
i'm aware that i'm reading into connotations but that's the vibe that it gave off to me and i'm trying to articulate what exactly was bothering me about it
wolves (Nibbui's scumstyle being a classic example) edit around stuff like this in opening posts as a major rvs junkie this post is like, NAI / maybe 1% town indicative
In post 81, InfiniteSoda wrote:Just getting a quick vote in during my 5-minute internet access at the public library VOTE: Mastina
awoo
These, however, I remember my issue. It's splitting the difference. Trying to have the best of both worlds. It's not all lighthearted fluff, but it's not all seriousness, yet there's no magical blend of the two. They're separate from one another. There's a magical formula, call it whimsy, call it whatever, where one can be both serious and lighthearted at the same time, yet with the worst here, the seriousness is separated from the lighthearted, and that divide between the two is something I'd expect to see in him as scum.
Look at all of his posting on that page.
There is a grand total of one which doesn't suffer from that problem.
Can you find it?
(VVV It's not this post btw. VVV)
In post 149, the worst wrote:{Nibbui}
{podoboq, Punk Bill, mastina} = null
{InfiniteSoda, nsg}
These reads were also, overall, fairly noncontroversial and ridiculously safe to make. (Skitter was potentially arguably an easy read to have, but, eh. Benefit of the doubt, we'll say that wasn't a safe read even though that conclusion is debatable. The only unambiguously unusual read there was sheep as town in my opinion.)
Everyone was lining up to scumread northsidegal.
Everyone was going to townread Nibbui given like five pages.
Infinite Soda was an easy scumread to take.
podoboq and Pink Bill are both obvious nulls to take as well--the only non-obvious null there is myself, and that can easily be explained by being afraid to sort me the wrong way. (I am equally skilled at picking up erroneous townreads and scumreads. Which, ironically. Makes it an easy to pick out erroneous nullread, but I digress.)
So pretty much an entire readslist filled with safe calls--when northsidegal posted a lazy readslist, it was nothing compared to this one. Because this one is all-around entirely lazy and unoriginal.
That being said--there was, on the next page. A single glimmer of what I was looking for from a town the worst. If I saw more of it, I'd be convinced he was town, but with it only in the one post, it's not something he can't do as scum. (Albeit, not intentionally--the thing I am thinking about is a thing which looks town that he as scum wouldn't have intentionally done and would've done entirely by accident, thus why it wouldn't be replicatable.)
There's also a second town indicator, but of the type which is fakeable.
And the page after contains more content which might be a town indicator, but of a
different type
of can-be-done-as-scum.
Basically.
There's like 3, 4 different types of town-looking content that scum can make--a player making one in overwhelming quantities is an indicator that they aren't scum; a player making more than one in large quantities is indicative of them being town; a player making one of each type--but
not
making more than one or two of each type--is not something that indicates town, because a well-rounded scum player will always hit some of their town notes, in limited quantities.
And quantity is the problem I am talking about--there are aspects of town in the worst's posting, but none so strongly overwhelming as to be something beyond his scum range.
And I see evidence of his scumplay strewn about.
In post 243, the worst wrote:@mastina I think I kinda said a less elaborate version of what I was thinking but lmk if you want some elaboration
I did in fact want this.
In post 254, Pink Ball wrote:To clarify: I don't think I solved the game, that's a joke. But now that I'm caught up I can go with those sweet interactions. I have no solid reads right now, since we still have InfiniteSoda and podoboq not playing at that could change everything. I mean, I think people have talked about InfiniteSoda not being here but nothing about podoboq, so that could mean something, right? I don't like sheep's way of playing and that could influence my read on him. duckling is too damn cute to be real.
My readlist would go something like:
{Nibbui} townread
{mastina; skitter; NSG} townlean (in that order)
{InfiniteSoda, podoboq} Null
{the worst; sheep} scumlean
{-}scumread
This is a god-tiered post.
In post 255, the worst wrote:> preflip associatives
> one dimensional meta tells
> "i'm playing different from my scumgame ERGO"
this might actually be town but god our playstyles are not compatible at all, i'm going to let someone else sort you for me
in the interim what do you like about nsg and what part of mastina's play so far has been notably towny to you?
are you townreading nibbui independently or is it just based on jank pre-flip associatives?
The opposite of a god-tiered post is of course a trash-tiered post, and this would be that!
These statements were flat. There was no life to them. There was no expression, no real feedback, no enthusiasm attached to them. Just dull.
In post 367, sheepsaysmeep wrote:idk what to do tw's policy lynch post is definitely pretty bad yeah
Pretty much!
In post 394, the worst wrote:i'm so in 'gottem mode' because i think nsg is uncharacteristically caught zzz
You think you've caught nsg. And yet...
In post 346, the worst wrote:willing to policy {bunk bill, infinitesoda} because i cbf reading thru bill's irritating bravado and rhetoric
think wolves are more like {nsg, ???} VOTE: nsg
Are willing to lynch two players who if town would place us in lylo, instead of her.
In post 398, podoboq wrote:Holy shit, guys. I guess I'm starting my read now. I'll post thoughts as I go. Gonna have to take a break for lunch in a bit.
In post 114, mastina wrote:Since you've been so cooperative, I think I'll give you my readslist!
northsidegal
Pink Ball
Nibbui
InfiniteSoda
sheepsaysmeep
skitter30
podoboq
the worst
Is this a joke? Soda and I had said literally nothing of value.
VOTE: podoboq.
I know this is not the first time you've seen this style of readslist, where off of seemingly nothing, there is a readslist.
You have played in games featuring that before, rather prominently in fact, and pretending you're not familiar with it won't work because I can hunt them down rather easily. I KNOW you know better than to think this.
Paired with the rather terrible catch-up overall.
I'm actually feeling much, much stronger on podoboq being scum than I am on the worst--which really says something.
Honestly feel that the worst-podoboq interactions are scum-scum. That banter just altogether has the aura of scum theater to it, where neither is really putting their heart into the interaction with the other.
This was transparently a projection given that sheep-mastina that game was exactly what I was accusing tw-podoboq of being.
mastina wrote:So I've read through 20, but I'm pretty sure I need to stop reading right now because I'm glossing over everything and not really thinking critically at this point. I'm just.
Scroll. Scroll. Scroll. Scroll scroll scroll. Scroll.
I'm reading, I'm just not really. Processing, if you know what I mean. So this'll be it for now.
That is not a problem I've had this fucking game. This game it's been literally the fucking opposite. Where I've commented frankly more often than I should.
In post 548, Nibbui wrote:We're lynching between me and sheep by the way because I've a lot of confidence in this read.
Oo, cool, finally something for me to disagree with. What in the world are you scumreading about sheep?
I feel like having a negative read on sheep is easy if you're not informed of his alignment like it seems a certain couple of individuals are with their placements.
In post 552, Nibbui wrote:maybe you and sheep are partners tbh
or maybe sheep with the duck.
Both of these are half-right, but you've got the wrong half to focus on. Like.
In post 561, Nibbui wrote:so the order is basically "sheep > podoboq > duck".
This is what earned you the N1 nightkill last game.
In post 550, Nibbui wrote:[Nibbui] - town
[--] - town lean
[Pink Ball, Skitter, NSG] - nulltown
[tw, mastina, infinite soda, podoroq] - null
[--] - nullscum
[--] - scum lean
[sheepsaysmeep] - scum
Oof I don't like this
You wouldn't, since it makes Nibbui insanely obvtown to the point where any protective role claiming a protection other than Nibbui is scumclaiming, and happens to point suspicion in the correct direction--a direction you don't want things to be taken.
In post 597, Nibbui wrote:VOTE: the worst
oh look duck is scum for real
Indeed he is! His reaction only makes it more obvious. This is how he reacts when he's made a plan, only to have it blow up in his face due to the actions of another player.
This is the first thing so much as resembling a reason to scumread the worst that I presented that game and it is not even remotely fucking similar to the reasons I've presented for the worst to be scum this game.
In post 629, the worst wrote:as scum I probably wouldn't pick NSG for a d1 lynch, would probably have tried to get a townread out of skitter via real-time interactions, would probably treat you fairly differently to the last time I was scum vs. town you, probably would have avoided engaging with mastina categorically, and I think I'd be less likely to be coming around on Punk Bill and bqpdbqb
Odd.
It seems to me that most of what you're describing as what you'd be doing as scum.
Is exactly what you've been doing.
Voting and having an early push on NSG does not a lynch make and you have since moved off, proving the point.
You haven't really engaged me.
And your stances are slow to move.
I've no doubt about this but also see no reason for it to carry alignment. Being scumread by obvtown is exasperating equally as town and scum--for different reasons, but the emotion produced is identical regardless.
This is not how I have pushed the worst this game.
In post 659, Nibbui wrote:I'm feeling like we might need lynch mastina if she doesn't town up because of PoE.
My job is to hunt and lynch scum, not look town.
Looking town is what scum do; lynching scum is what town do.
General rule of thumb, offense comes over defense. I refuse to defend myself against accusations I know aren't true, when I can better use my time to make accusations of my own, which with luck on my side, would be true.
If everyone is looking town to you, then you need to reassess your metrics for what is town--because they are obviously off. If everyone is looking town to you, then you know you're wrong; you need to fundamentally reevaluate what holds actual alignment weight.
The metric I use, I posted already:
In post 882, mastina wrote:There's like 3, 4 different types of town-looking content that scum can make--a player making one in overwhelming quantities is an indicator that they aren't scum; a player making more than one in large quantities is indicative of them being town; a player making one of each type--but
not
making more than one or two of each type--is not something that indicates town, because a well-rounded scum player will always hit some of their town notes, in limited quantities.
And quantity is the problem I am talking about--there are aspects of town in the worst's posting, but none so strongly overwhelming as to be something beyond his scum range.
And I see evidence of his scumplay strewn about.
If a user is producing a type of content which is town in
overwhelming
quantities, it is a fairly safe, reasonable bet that odds are they are town.
If a user is producing a few different types of content which are town in a significant quantity, it is basically all-but assured that they are town.
If a user produces a few sporadic, inconsistent, random pings which look town, but are otherwise overwhelmingly showing evidence otherwise.
That is not town, most of the time.
It is okay if you don't have any real reads to initially use weaker sort methods--and if those weaker sort methods give you a clear direction, great! Hone in on it, refine it, and find what makes them real.
But if your initial weaker sort methods are self-evidently, obviously flawed, then what you need to do is cast them out and start over with a new method that
does
work.
I said it to you last game, and I mean it this time, too.
I genuinely feel like your largest weakness as a player is that you lack conviction--you come to the right conclusion, but talk yourself out of it down the line because of doubt, because of some weak thing that you thought indicated something when it didn't. Reassessing can and is a strength, and I feel that it is your greatest one...but it is only a strength when correctly timed.
A correctly timed reevaluation can fundamentally shift the game in the direction it needs to go; wrongly timed reassessments will fundamentally shift the game in the direction of a mislynch.
In post 666, Nibbui wrote:maybe you're scum that thought I was scum reading you for the "wrong reasons"
Like this. This is a good thing to have seen. the worst was exasperated, and I've no reason to doubt that; I fully believe it. But I also firmly believe that the worst's exasperation at being scumread came from "I'm scum but not because of that, dammit!". (Even though to some extent I feel he
is
scum because of that.)
In post 671, Pink Ball wrote:Reading the same four slots going back and forth Is giving me the false illusion that everybody's town right now
Effort != alignment. If you think that everyone posting is town, then you need to fundamentally rethink how you are reading players because activity != alignment. If you are townreading everyone that is talking, chances are you have a wrong townread because most of the time there is going to be scum talking.
In post 682, Nibbui wrote:sheep who is scum along with NSG and don't say infinitesoda
That's another thing.
I think I am literally the
only
player.
In the entire fucking game.
Who has a clear scumteam theory.
My scumteam is two individuals--never more, never less.
My scumteam is two individual scumreads...but
also
involves their interactions with each other.
the worst isn't just scum because he's scum; he's scum because of his whole way of treating the podoboq slot.
podoboq isn't just scum because he's scum; he's scum because of his whole way of treating the worst.
Can anyone else produce a coherent team of two?
If you can't.
News for you.
Your scumreads are at least 50% wrong.
Nibbui's come the closest to this, by calling out sheep-the worst, or sheep-podoboq, but the sheep scumread was apparently a reaction. I still maintain that had Nibbui focused on the other half, the correct conclusion would have presented itself.
I think that was the first time I cursed all fucking game and it was incredibly fucking tame.
Not saying scumastina doesn't curse but there is a volume to it.
scumastina basically is clean mouthed with f bombs being precision laser-guided focused, usually.
This game it is pretty fucking apparently not that.
In post 828, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:Would Mastina ever try to be intentionally scummy as town or is it more likely to be scum WIFOM?
Why is it.
That people keep on saying.
I said I was intentionally trying to be scummy.
When I said no fucking such thing.
At any point in the game.
And said the opposite.
That I do no such thing.
Multiple times.
Copying my scumgame as town does not equate to acting scummy as town--it's
the opposite
. You know what my flowchart says? Effectively, on D1? "If mastina looks town...
lynch her; she's scum
." Because my scumgame is better than my towngame at looking town. My scumgame is more logical than my towngame. My scumgame is more precise, clean, altogether held together, than my towngame. My towngame is a mess, chaotic, hectic, altogether not well-designed.
So as town, I strive to replicate the successful aspects of my scumgame: the calm, collected, cool presence who retains control of the game in a logical way that is reasonably town appearing.
That
is what I mean when I say as town I try to mimic my scumgame.
Which is the furthest thing possible from trying to act scummy as town. I am no user of Slayer's Gambit.
In post 832, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:Idk why Mastina’s pushing tw but I’m not liking it, so I’m probably going to vote there. This is obviously tw’s towngame here.
You're not liking it because your reasons for townreading the worst are absolute shit and given enough time I'll be able to tell you precisely why. This is the worst's scumgame here.
Here I was legitimately angry but I was angry about something which I can get angry about as scum.
My push on the worst was in reference to another ongoing game at the time. My "can't explain" was in reference to I believe a game Krazy was modding at the time where I knew that Nancy's read on the worst was fundamentally wrong so I felt justified here because I knew her reasoning was wrong.
It was a push I could make easily because it was a push based around things I knew to be facts.
In post 868, Nibbui wrote:I'm quite surprised that podoboq is above sheep. Why the need to drop sheep so much when you had a more consistent read on him since early?
Also, do you feel that podoboq is towny enough to be that high?
These can be answered by "the worst is scum, pocketing you".
His read on sheep is mirroring your sentiment that this isn't outside of sheep's scumgame.
In post 884, skitter30 wrote:i don't know why you think this game is 'precisely what you'd expect of him as town'; it's kinda subjective and like i don't really know how to translate this into how *i* read people if that makes sense
Well I don't know how to help because I don't understand the confusion to be had. Nibbui is playing this game precisely how I'd expect Nibbui to play as town. I don't know how that'd be in any way subjective or ambiguous. It's exactly what it says.
In post 876, the worst wrote:I thought your readslist was used to reaction test NSG.
I do place people in spots higher than warranted on occasion, but that honor is usually reserved for players who're like soulreads and I can use it before said soulread has developed on them as a reaction test to gain the real read. Usually, you can trust: what you see is what you've got.
I loathe deception in reads. Sure, misdirection in roleclaims is all fine and good, but lying about a read is a bordeline cardinal sin of townplay. So when you see a scumread, it is a real scumread; when you see a townread, it is a real townread.
In post 878, the worst wrote:find a scumgame of mastina's (e.g. mini theme encore mafia now without cults by KittyMo) and read the opening few scum pt posts by mastina, she Knows All
If mastina actually knows all, then she's misrepping me. I think it's more reasonable to say that mastina thinks she knows all.
Why, after having noted that I could be misrepping you, do you instead conclude that I am town that is wrong?
Basically, what I'm saying here is: in spite of me having multiple times displayed content which podoboq has noted a distaste for, he has gone for a stance on me implying I'm town. It's cognitive dissonance.
In post 885, podoboq wrote:As a person who hasn't played on site in a long time, and doesn't usually play more than one game at a time, all this talk of meta is going from mildly annoying to seriously frustrating.
This is also doing nothing openly. Active lurking. There's a lack of contribution here altogether.
Dare you to find a post like this I've made this game; you won't find one because this clinical style of posting is not something I fucking do as town.
In post 899, Pink Ball wrote:@podoboq I don't know 'cause I haven't played with here, but I love her playstyle. Only by reading her catch up I feel more wise as a person. Just think about it: if she's town, the way she reads the thread is outstanding; if she's scum, even better.
correct
(but she's also sometimes horrifically wrong and tunnels hard)
...But it's not nearly as strong as podoboq is doing.
Nancy hits the point on the head:
In post 914, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:Are you finding fault with her play in general or just this game? This criticism seems kind of over the top?
At last check, the worst wasn't and podoboq wasn't. Neither were townreading me and yet both have this critical stance of me.
Even when podoboq acknowledges that I could be scum...
In post 920, podoboq wrote:If mastina is infallible at this game, then she's just scum, and I should just vote her. If she's prone to being exceptionally wrong, then she's probably just exceptionally wrong.
Why are these the only two extremes? Why is it "infallible = scum" or "not infallible = just wrong"? Again, I'm not a townread, so why is me being wrong something that if I'm not infallible makes me town?
In post 398, podoboq wrote:Holy shit, guys. I guess I'm starting my read now. I'll post thoughts as I go. Gonna have to take a break for lunch in a bit.
In post 114, mastina wrote:Since you've been so cooperative, I think I'll give you my readslist!
northsidegal
Pink Ball
Nibbui
InfiniteSoda
sheepsaysmeep
skitter30
podoboq
the worst
Is this a joke? Soda and I had said literally nothing of value.
VOTE: podoboq.
I know this is not the first time you've seen this style of readslist, where off of seemingly nothing, there is a readslist.
You have played in games featuring that before, rather prominently in fact, and pretending you're not familiar with it won't work because I can hunt them down rather easily. I KNOW you know better than to think this.
In post 548, Nibbui wrote:We're lynching between me and sheep by the way because I've a lot of confidence in this read.
Oo, cool, finally something for me to disagree with. What in the world are you scumreading about sheep?
I feel like having a negative read on sheep is easy if you're not informed of his alignment like it seems a certain couple of individuals are with their placements.
In post 552, Nibbui wrote:maybe you and sheep are partners tbh
or maybe sheep with the duck.
Both of these are half-right, but you've got the wrong half to focus on. Like.
In post 561, Nibbui wrote:so the order is basically "sheep > podoboq > duck".
This is what earned you the N1 nightkill last game.
In post 682, Nibbui wrote:sheep who is scum along with NSG and don't say infinitesoda
That's another thing. I think I am literally the
only
player. In the entire fucking game. Who has a clear scumteam theory.
My scumteam is two individual scumreads...but
also
involves their interactions with each other.
the worst isn't just scum because he's scum; he's scum because of his whole way of treating the podoboq slot.
podoboq isn't just scum because he's scum; he's scum because of his whole way of treating the worst.
Nibbui's come the closest to this, by calling out sheep-the worst, or sheep-podoboq, but the sheep scumread was apparently a reaction. I still maintain that had Nibbui focused on the other half, the correct conclusion would have presented itself.
podoboq's entrance into the game proper was absolutely terrible. Everything about it was bad. The fact that podoboq called my naked readslist bad when I know for a fact podoboq has seen those naked readslists in effect before was what sealed the deal.
His reads closely mirror those of the worst, in a way that no other players' reads have, and then when you did the sheep scumread, the reactions of podoboq and the worst were atrocious to it. They went out of their way to defend sheep, something I feel is a strong display of too much knowledge. You are quite apt in saying that this is not outside of sheep's scum range--so why, then, is a player who is not outside of their scum range warranting so strong a defense from these two particular players? It reeks of white knighting.
The whole interaction between podoboq and the worst--which happened a grand total of once in the game--felt like it was orchestrated scum theater, where neither party was really putting much thought into their process of sorting the other.
This is probably the closest post I made in that game to being a post I'd make as town for what it's worth--so a post like this you could plausibly see me make as town.
In post 960, the worst wrote:Are you actually scumreading me or are you calling the scumteam based off one conversation which you misconstrued?
If I wasn't exhausted right now I'd go construct a mirror to the podoboq thing I just did, for you.
Suffice to say?
Yes.
NSG who is fairly good at reading me is allegedly town in your books, townread me at opening and then saw no reason to reconsider that before replacing out?
Considering you yourself acknowledged that her ability to do so has diminished, this is rather hypocritical of you.
Suffice to say, even had you insisted the whole game that her ability to read you held true? Frankly. I wouldn't buy it; I'd put zero stock in it.
The difference being that in this game when I've been exhausted I've still fucking delivered.
Even as I am typing this I am fucking tired as fuck.
In post 961, podoboq wrote:It's extremely obvious that my problem with the readslist you originally posted is that you have me and InfiniteSoda, both of which contributed absolutely nothing to the game, very separate from eachother.
And that is what I was referring to when I said you have seen this trait before.
I, 100%.
Know for a fact.
That you have seen the trait of two players contributing absolutely nothing in the game, being separated from each other in readslists before.
And yet your attitude implied you haven't, even though I know you have.
I straight up don't know what you're talking about. Most people don't have photographic memories of their games. If this has happened before in one of my games, I don't remember it, and just because you consider it significant in one game doesn't mean it should have been significant to me.
It wasn't just one game; it was multiple games. And considering the trait is something that was very notable at the time, I flat-out don't believe that you could have forgotten about it.
In post 972, the worst wrote:we're dealing with scum!mastina so that'll help pad things out!
Ooh! Ooh! So are we gonna like.
Go the indirect route where you try to lynch my "scumbuddy" Nancy while I go lynch your scumbuddy podoboq...
...Or the direct route where we just cross-vote?
I'm fine with either!
The first half of this was flat but I'll admit that the second half of this could plausibly come from me as town. It's still something which I'd say is more likely from scumastina tho and it is something which isn't remotely similar to anything I've done this fucking game.
, could you play the fucking game instead of talking about your meta?
P-edit
Hello, active lurking scum. Nice to meet you, I'm mastina. We should get properly acquainted; I'm rather fond of bonding--specifically, with rope. Around the neck.
This post is an example of something which similar to it would be town but you can tell that this specific iteration of it came from scumastina. My statement of it being a red fucking flag is something which can come from me as town but in this case my
delivery
of the line was flat and lifeless. The top and bottom parts were plausibly town tho.
In post 1103, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:Well, I’m wondering why Mastina is so certain I’m town. How familiar is she with NSG meta because I know she can’t be tio familiar with mine.
False on not knowing yours--I'm rather intimately familiar with it given we've played something like ten games together. Or if not played, I've been involved in at least ten if nothing else. But I already explained why nsg became my townread.
In post 117, mastina wrote:northsidegal is, 100% of the time, always town. the worst is, 100% of the time, always scum.
Never doubt it.
When people quoted this, they seemed to forget the most important part of the quote--the bolded. The bolded phrase here, "never doubt it". Is never something said seriously--it's a deadpan snark. I was referring specifically to how, 100% of the time, no matter how much you may think she's scum, northsidegal is pretty much always 100% of the time actually town. With an undertone of how even when she is scum, she is
still
town.
It then figures that the same was true of the worst--I was referring to how, disproportionately, the worst draws scum role PMs time and time again, and is almost always the last anti-town that the town is suspicious of. Yet when he is town, people tend to still think he is scum, especially me, in part due to paranoia of knowing just how good his scumgame can be. So it can be said that, no matter how much you may think he's town, he's scum, 100% of the time, even if his role PM says otherwise.
...But
in spite of that
.
My vote was placed on the worst--if this were 100% a joke read, I'd not have done that, and kept it there.
The reason for these reads, if you look at it, is pretty self-evident:
I'd actually describe as a northsidegal-type of inquisitive: pushing forward, but lighthearted when doing so.
town. She was incredibly whimsical, unafraid to be the third vote on a wagon, and seemed like she was, genuinely, having a good time.
northsidegal is an inquisitive player, pushing forward, but lighthearted when doing so; that is the exact vibe I got from her posts, as I later explain:
In post 89, northsidegal wrote:/lazyposting
{nsg}
{tw, sheep}
{skitter}
{everyone else}
{nibbui}
This readslist was exactly what she said it was: lazy. It's a pretty terrible readslist, but alignment-wise my thought on it was that it was completely and entirely, 100%, not alignment indicative either way. Given my prior townread on nsg tho, it wasn't really worth bringing up.
When I saw her interact with Nibbui more, I thought it was a fairly town-town interaction on both sides
, tho--but because both were already topping my townreads
anyway
, I didn't really feel like emphasizing the fact.
When I say someone is town, I tend not to put special emphasis on them being town past that point--the sole exception to this is if the player I am calling town is at risk of being lynched. If they are close to being lynched, then, obviously, I need to emphasize why they are town to dissuade that outcome, but other than that, my feeling is mostly a "said once, then done". I said nsg and Nibbui were town, I was done.
In post 1102, Nibbui wrote:Pink Ball and podoboq seems frustated with you talking about your own meta and I don't want you guys to argue with each other over it
Nope. It's everyone talking about everyone's meta. It's all meta. This single day with people has been longer than entire games I've played. It's tiring.
Still doing nothing, and this point is one I feel is egregious anyway.
There's plenty of non-meta evidence to be had.
While meta does have a prominent place in discussion--as it should--it is not overwhelmingly dominating as podoboq is pretending.
This is a post demonstrating the difference between scumastina and town mastina rather nicely.
scumastina said "this is false, here's why"; town me just goes "this is absolute bullshit; x y z and that's why this is bullshit" more or less.
In post 1125, skitter30 wrote:idk how to explain that better; this feels like a game where scum might be in the townbloc
You know my answer.
In post 1134, LolWagons wrote:Skitter had like at least three AI posts in their ISO and its concerning you are late to the game on that
No, it's concerning pretending skitter had that many strong alignment-indicative posts in her iso given her nature--in other words, the real concern isn't me being "late"; it's those who were early in giving that townread.
I feel like skitter does warrant one, but pretending she warranted one from essentially the onset is ridiculous unless your experience with her is on soulread levels. She's quite competent as both alignments and has a style almost identical between them; to read her as town, you need to find the content which is beyond her ability to fake as scum, and that content didn't exist as far as I could tell until much later in her iso than you are saying.
And if she is at all in any way honest with herself, she'd be the
first
to tell you this.
Another instance of a flat lifeless post. There is no passion, no energy, behind this post.
In post 1302, Nibbui wrote:I think no one can correctly read mastina here and her posts at least for me are nullscum because I've not seen any fluidity on her reads
she did read the opening posts and her later readlist is basically the same than it was on page 1 or 2
that's not normal imo
You literally saw me explain my philosophy as to why.
My reads only change when I have reason to change them.
I've no reason to change my Mephistophanes read; I was townreading nsg, I'm townreading Nancy, and I'm townreading Aristophanes.
I've no reason to change my podoboq read; I gave you my scum case, the entirety sum of why people are townreading podoboq seems to be "oh I liked these reads from podoboq" (which is absolute horseshit), and he continues to scum it up whenever he posts.
I've no reason to change my the worst read; I haven't given you the case, and admittedly I've slacked off a bit in hounding his posts, but he is still playing scum here and I can better explain that later.
I've only had one read change--skitter moving to being a townread--but that's because there's only been the one read that has had reason to change.
Pink Ball is just as town as before and continues to town it up whenever present.
You are even more town and continue to town up whenever present.
Lolwagons is someone who is a strong enough scum player to not be outside his scum range and it's hard to lock down anything he's said as being undeniably town, but there's also a lack of scum indicators. In other words, he continues his slot's position of being null, because I haven't locked onto an unambiguously town or unambiguously scum indicator from him.
sheep has continued to produce content, and my read actually
has
changed there...several times. By which I mean fully ambivalent on him. There are areas where I hard-townread what he was doing, but were followed immediately by areas where I hard-scumread what he was doing, so it's impossible right now to lock him down.
Those two reads I imagine
will
change in the future, when I CAN lock them down, similar to how my read on skitter changed from being right in that null pool with them to town. But it hasn't changed yet, because nothing there has changed. My reads change when there is reason for them to change, when there is something that definitively points me in a new direction.
And that largely hasn't happened.
Because my conclusions remain the same.
Because nothing has come up that changes said conclusions.
There is not a lick of anger in this post. This post I was incredibly respectful. This post I was incredibly diplomatic. This post I was incredibly polite. Because scumastina couldn't be angry at Nibbui because Nibbui had me nailed dead to rights--I had to defend against it, but I knew that Nibbui had me pegged correctly so I couldn't be mad. I couldn't be angry about something which was right and which correctly identified me as scum.
Compare and contrast what I've done this game where oh yeah. I have every fucking reason to be ticked off.
In post 1350, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:I can’t help get the feeling that Mastina has somehow set up a situation with an artificial 1v1 between tw and myself. Having us as her #1 townread and the worst, as her #1 scumread.
You apparently haven't been paying attention if you think the worst is my #1 scumread; that'd be podoboq.
You also apparently haven't been reading my fucking posts, because.
She approaches this in a deliberately scummy way
I already fucking answered this. I did no such thing so stop fucking saying I did.
Neither Mastina’s #1 townread on us or #1 scumread on the worst are ever explained
Also false.
Read my fucking posts because
literally nothing you're saying about me is true
.
Here I was legitimately angry. This wasn't faked, so this is an example of scumastina anger. But look at what that anger is about. It is not even REMOTELY the same.
In post 1438, the worst wrote:like rn she's talking about her townread on NSG which was a pretty forced read ("ooo mystery" isn't like. towny/lassaiz-faire in rvs and realistically is not the kind of thing you look at for a towny solving mindset in rvs, surely, please tell me if you think this is being dumb) and tmi townread of Nancy which she's mostly let sit on the back burner while we actually pushed Nancy but is yelling about now she realises it's not a mislynch
The reason I'm not defending Nancy in spite of the pressure there is, because I was catching up.
What good does defending against Nancy pressure posted 20 pages ago do, if by the time I'm caught up, it turns out that there's no pressure there? (Which is pretty much...exactly what happened?) I mean, sure. If Nancy were still in danger at this point, you can bet your ass I'd go to her defense, but frankly. Simply put. She isn't. So it's not needed.
I do what I need to do in games, and don't waste time/effort on things I don't need to do. Nancy needs no defense right now, so she doesn't get it. Nancy needed it 20 pages ago...but
I wasn't here 20 pages ago
. So retroactively giving her defense would be just as much a waste of my time as giving a player already mislynched a case on why they are town.
This was frankly a scumclaim because I don't take that approach as town.
In post 1464, the worst wrote:one spicy take: scum!me lolhammers there instead of giving intent because I'm completely cognisant of how heavily Nancy can spew town under pressure
Except she wasn't actually at L-1 and you're a thorough enough scum player to not make that mistake.
It is specifically because you gave intent rather than voting that it's scum-indicative, honestly.
This push is incredibly flat. It is lifeless. It has no emotion to it, no passion to it.
In post 1472, Nibbui wrote:I wonder if I'm getting under Mastina's charm though
She is strangely charming
(Btw, that's actually a weak towntell of mine. scumastina is an ass, so is anything but charming. The charm comes from me when I'm town, since I just have a way with people, I guess.)
In post 1478, Nibbui wrote:mastina my problem isn't you lacking fluidity on your reads, I know somewhat that when you fix your reads on someone, you stay with that for a while
my problem is that you fixed your reads on page 1 or 2
in Red Flag you had a whole day to fix your reads on and it makes sense you keeping them static there
here you hadn't much to base they on firstly though
maybe it's just a coincidence however
Go do some research on me.
I am infamous for making page one readslists.
Reads which often last a significant portion of the game, partially or entirely.
My reads didn't change past the first couple of pages, because the first couple of pages were all I needed to get them. I extrapolate a lot from the RVS. My personal philosophy reads-wise is, "when in doubt, go back to the RVS". I treat it as incredibly valuable (which is honestly one of the reasons I latched onto Gamma as scum in red flag, for the usage of the proven-scumsided RQS that is much harder to get a read on than normal RVS is), because I have developed a whole nuanced process behind extrapolating from RVS posts alignments of individuals.
While these are always guesswork at best, sometimes, especially in smaller games, these reads prove to have merit, when later content supports my original conclusion.
You'll find with sufficient research both a number of games where my reads change after the RVS readslist, and a number of games where they didn't.
I am scumreading the worst because his entrance screamed scum and all his content since then has only supported that conclusion.
I wasn't actually strongly scumreading podoboq. If you were to look at my original readslist, the separation for it would've been:
This. But since then, my scumread on podoboq has grown, to the point where he's my strongest scumread, stronger even than the worst.
So my current readslist would be:
Mephistophanes
Nibbui
Pink Ball
skitter
Lolwagons
sheepsaysmeep
the worst
podoboq.
Just because the players I'm suspicious of haven't changed, doesn't mean that it's been entirely static. podoboq went from slight scumread to strongest scumread.
In post 1483, Nibbui wrote:I can see where Mastina is coming about podoboq as well
not their RVS entrance or whatever
but their play here is very consensus and laid back yes
oh god...
Never thought you'd end up sheeping me, eh?
In post 1486, skitter30 wrote:like @tw i guess my problem with ur mastina push rn is that it feels a little conveniently-timed? like as your wagon heats up you decide mastina - who happens to be ur counterwagon - is obvscum
Also.
the worst isn't really saying I'm scum for anything--because
he can't
. He's more saying that I'm not town, just because I'm not being townread.
In post 1487, the worst wrote:I can't accurately read mastina imo. but I don't really see her town motivation here and like I can happily be talked outta this but I don't think anyone's convincingly townreading her....?
As so.
Another flat, lifeless post--the points in there might be good, but they are clinical. Precise. Calculated. Calm, cool, collected. Without a trace of emotion to them.
For context: as scum, I had setup information based on my role PM which let me know that the worst was fakeclaiming.
This put the truth into my side. I knew that the worst was fakeclaiming, so I could legitimately, genuinely push him in spite of me being scum because I knew for a 100% fact that he was fakeclaiming and that gave my push some sincerity--due to the information I had as scum (which I later mostly truthclaimed albeit slightly modified), I knew for a FACT that he wasn't what he said he was, and because I knew for a fact that he wasn't what he said he was, I could push him with honesty.
There is no such thing as a lategame confirmable town power role.
The final push on the worst--where I was 100% right and could push so safely because the truth was on MY side.
So what in that game resembles this one, hmm?
~Nested Spoilers replaced by area tags. Jingle
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
why are snow and the name olaf related that's the name of the snow guy in AW
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
maybe because it's the sound a snowball makes when it hits a tree kind of
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
) I will explain things in my own way, taking as many words as I deem necessary to get the right message across. It might help your understanding of me for you to know that I am autistic; I don't process information in a normal way.
