In post 507, Town looter wrote:
Random question, but do you feel like you have learned and improved since our last foray together? I feel like you have, so follow up question is what are your new, er, skills (for lack of a better term/phrase)?
The game ended two days ago. Is there something you think I should have learned?
Dead chat didn't like me and thought I was scum. But I wasn't scum and I managed to survive to the end and get both the mafia members.
In post 535, NoPowerOverMe wrote:I think town would try and incorporate other players into the game rather than try to convince others to ignore other players they had a bad one game experience with.
If town was made up of robots instead of human beings, sure.
Someone who will exclude others due to one bad game is going to do so whether they're green or red.
In post 507, Town looter wrote:
Random question, but do you feel like you have learned and improved since our last foray together? I feel like you have, so follow up question is what are your new, er, skills (for lack of a better term/phrase)?
The game ended two days ago. Is there something you think I should have learned?
Dead chat didn't like me and thought I was scum. But I wasn't scum and I managed to survive to the end and get both the mafia members.
I guess 'you can suck and still win' is a lesson.
Eh, I am fairly sure you didn't suck in that game, given your reads were good and you won the game for town in GLo. If anyone fits the suck criteria it'd be myself and luncheon given the quality of our reads.
In post 553, SJReaver wrote:Also: sorry for the quickhammer, Townlooter. I forgive all the bad words you said when you read that and most of the bad things you thought.
In post 535, NoPowerOverMe wrote:I think town would try and incorporate other players into the game rather than try to convince others to ignore other players they had a bad one game experience with.
If town was made up of robots instead of human beings, sure.
Someone who will exclude others due to one bad game is going to do so whether they're green or red.
It's pretty self-centered and anti Town though. Any reasonable townie should know that one game is not an adequate sample size. Also being a eplacement is not easy and somewhat thankless.
Mafia Record: Town 4-3 Mafia 0-1 Third Party 1-0 Total 5-4
"NPOM you can do apparently whatever the fuck you want this game." - Alduskkel
In post 507, Town looter wrote:
Random question, but do you feel like you have learned and improved since our last foray together? I feel like you have, so follow up question is what are your new, er, skills (for lack of a better term/phrase)?
The game ended two days ago. Is there something you think I should have learned?
Dead chat didn't like me and thought I was scum. But I wasn't scum and I managed to survive to the end and get both the mafia members.
I guess 'you can suck and still win' is a lesson.
Oh and I meant learned/improved as a result of our game.
In post 398, Glitch wrote:So far today I'll be cool with serious wagons forming on Nero, MM depending on response, or
Norway
Seems a little weird to me that you are chainsaw defending the guy but are ok with a wagon on him. Isn't that talking out of both sides of your mouth?
Statements like this are why I'm SR'ing you. I would expect you to do better than this as town. I clearly have not said anything in defense of Norway, and a solid mafia player should clearly understand the difference between: 1) criticizing your vote against Norway for making a poor case and making a bad argument, and 2) defending Norway himself. The two are literally not even a little bit the same and you should know that. Why are you arguing in bad faith?
In post 407, Nero Cain wrote:also im not getting lynched d1 so your vote is p useless.
its 11 to lynch with 8 days and change left. The choice between a vanity vote and applying the presure vote to MM and moving the game foreward seems like a no brainer to me.
I am
VERY
interested in why you'd even consider a srs vote on norway given that you think I'm scum and thus pushing town or do you think I'm bussing him? or are you just scum that knows I'll flip town and that once I do there very well could be a renewed energy to lynch norway so you are just being oppertunistic?
And here we are again. I expect more from a player of your caliber, Nero. If I SR you because of your play, and SR Norway because of his play, it is optimal to apply pressure, not to speculate blindfolded on a possible scum alliance. I am certainly not, in a game this large especially, going to speculate on players playing scum together right off the bat on D1. Right now is the time for evaluating indiciduals for their actions, not trying to pin two players together for being a scum team when literally no one has flipped.
To address your vanity wagon comments, please tell me how you think that my one single vote on you has not been more productive in producing our conversation here, rather than just parking on MM who is clearly not actually being threatened? One vote on Norway sure did create a lot of great discussion. One vote on you has made some good things happen too, and I'm very happy with how this has turned out.
I think this Nero wagon needs to build. ISO his slot, y'all. Look at how he argues against me here and the points he makes. He is level headed and collected but his arguments are such a stretch that it hurts. Downplaying the usefulness of my "vanity vote," upplaying the strength of the MM wagon, misrepping my criticism of his Norway case as a defense of Norway. This is the best wagon to build, as more pressure will help us see how Nero will respond and see, if he truly is scum, if he will inevitably crack under the pressure of a serious wagon because he has to fabricate SRs.
In post 383, Glitch wrote:Additionally, your case that Norway is scummy because he wants to know why you're voting him is bad. Everyone would want to know why you cast a vote for them if you just did so out of the blue with no explanation whatsoever. It feels like you set up a trap for him: you know Norway is talkative and expressive and posts a lot. Are you scum taking advantage of that who set up Norway with a naked vote to inquire why you voted him, and then you smeared his playstyle calling him hyper defensive when he simply wanted you to explain why you voted for him? You tried to make him look bad for wanting to understand and wanting you to clarify your vote. Why is it bad that Norway wants you to give information on your vote?
Echoing my thoughts on this.
Even if i agree with your deconstruction of Nero’s "scum hunting attempt" here. I’m not entirely sure i’d find it AI of Nero. His playstyle is rough and i think he tends to latch on to every little thing as both town and sometimes scum. Therefore i agree it’s faulty logic but not nexesarilly a planned "trap" from scum!him.
If I go back and read what Nero had said before my case on him, this makes sense and I could be swayed there. But 403 and 407 bolster my SR significantly for making such a big stretch to discredit me.
In post 436, Town looter wrote:Fwesnid I have actually flipped based on 384, and have a reasonably strong town read on them.
What is it about 384 makes you have a reasonably strong TR? 384 seems fluffy and null to me.
In post 438, Town looter wrote:Bleh, just as I was starting to get a gut scum feeling about Superbowl (SB), MM throws a proper case together and is going to make it look like I am sheeping (for the 2nd or 3rd time in this game ).
My read started after re-reading the Stanley interaction. I think Scum!SB genuinely thinks it's a good case that he can latch onto and look like he is scumhunting. And it kind of is, except for the fact that there absolutely could be a SvT interaction that "feels" forced (I take Stanley's response as a throw-away gut feeling after reading - I have made similar statements): Scum could be doing the forcing, which gives the conversation a forced feel overall. Given I have a mild town read on Stan, I am willing to trust his gut in this.
Then there is the reluctance to respond openly, which could be scum motivated as the information may not exist.
And then the response to mis-quoting in 308; later you say you were going to respond, but your initial response doesn't really add up. I think a more natural town response would be to respond to 235, probably in a slightly flustered way given you mis-posted.
All very minor things, but they all add up.
I also am getting town vibes from Nero (and NoPowerOverMe, which will matter in a second). Trusting these vibes puts a question mark over Glitch. And where are you in Glitch's reads? Right where a scum partner would be. I know it is absurd looking for associations prior to a single flip. But like I say, the little things are adding up.
Spoiler:
In post 398, Glitch wrote:The difference in a 4 vote wagon and a 5 vote wagon in this game is literally so miniscule that it makes no difference, especially when one of those votes is Lapsa. The MM wagon will continue to die down until MM comes back on and responds to the investigation kicked off by CSF and reminded by me in my post above. If his response is shitty then I'm all for building a serious wagon then. But let's not pretend that 3 votes + Lapsa is a remarkable wagon opportunity to pass up. It's not.
I love a good, strong wagon. The MM wagon is not one as it stands and my vote remains more useful on you.
So far today I'll be cool with serious wagons forming on Nero, MM depending on response, or Norway. I won't be voting Superbowl or NPOM as they are my highest TRs, CSF is almost up to that same peak tier.
Bell why does Nero feel townie to you?
Nero, why are you hesitant to accept the town block invitation?
Popopo, have you not shown up yet because of the vote tag rule?
VOTE: Superbowl
This feels like such a good, genuine effort but it's just really off. I get where you're coming from, and if you want to SR me for my own actions that's fine and we can totally talk about it, but your SR of me because of my TR on your top SR is a very weak association argument, and from your post, you know that. Your entire argument is a stretch and instead of making a self-admittedly weak case, I think it would be best to try and push elsewhere with stronger reasoning.
FTR when I play scum I bus the hell out of my scumbuddies. I wouldn't say if I were scum this game, but you can check out Mini 2149 where I played scum with popopo, mavsfan, and Dunnstral and I ripped into all of them consistently throughout the game. If I had more games to show you this I would but currently I don't have any other completed scum games of mine online to reference.
In post 493, Nero Cain wrote:I didn't even call you (Norway) scummy for asking. This is something that you/glitch think happened/made up when it really didn't. and ^, so its not like I ignored it either.
In post 256, Nero Cain wrote:I naked voted him and he responded within 2 mins. He then asked what's the reason for a naked voted so yes I think he's a little freaked out over getting voted. That's my interpretation and I'm entitled to it. It's not a fucking misrep.
So if your naked vote on Norway got a reaction that you don't SR him for, then why did your vote remain on Norway? If you didn't SR him, then why did you vote him?
In post 8, NorwegianboyEE wrote:Why did i join a 20+ game. Omg. Time to fight against the wagon dynamics of dogpiling on an random player.
Vigs better shoot tonight.
Why would vig's have to shoot tonight? Wouldn't it be better to save the vig shots for a 1 for 1 scenario or similar or at least until we've got a bunch more reads down.
This is my first game out of the newbie forum. Question: "The townvmafia numbers are confirmed to be 16v5," so this is definitely two factions? No worrying about more than one mafia or a serial killer?
Where does it say that it's 16v5? I don't remember reading that anywhere
In post 41, SJReaver wrote:
Given the size of this group, how do you feel about eliminating low-activity slots?
Do you agree with Norwegian that vigs should shoot early?
Unless there is good evidence of lurking, no. Mis-elimming an active slot will generally tell us more than a mis-elim on an inactive slot. This obviously only applies to early game, activity will be a useful source of information later in the game because of how easy it is to fly below the radar.
I've never played a setup with a vig, and haven't really thought about it. So not sure, probably defer to other's better judgement on this.
I don't believe this answered their question at all but I am personally against shooting N1 as you may end up killing a strong PR or the like stupidly and then go "Oh oop- soz"
In post 51, Marshmallow Marshall wrote:
And now, can we start calling eachother scum so that we can have meaningful discussion, please? This debate about lynching and shooting basing on activity isn't alignment indicative, and we've basically killed RVS' significance here.
I'm here for you, bro.
VOTE: Mashmallow
Reason:
Claims previous discussion is NAI and has killed RVS on
page 2
when the majority of people haven't voted. Claims calling others scum is more useful but then doesn't do it themselves.
@Mod It should be 11 to lynch, I'm voting for Bell while Glitch is not, and superbowl is voting for Glitch.
In post 11, SJReaver wrote:
This is my first game out of the newbie forum. Question: "The townvmafia numbers are confirmed to be 16v5," so this is definitely two factions? No worrying about more than one mafia or a serial killer?
Yes there are exactly 16 town, and exactly 5 mafia of one faction.
Full and odd-night vigilantes should almost always be shooting night 1. X-shot is pretty situational.
superbowl's two recent posts ping.
Can you explain to me as to why vigilantes should shoot N1, I don't see the benefit outside of just killing town off faster with the small chance of hitting a wolf.
In post 49, Marshmallow Marshall wrote:From my long experience of playing with Norweegian (1 game!), he screams town when he's town.
I’M TOWN!
Oh god you're here
In post 150, superbowl9 wrote:Your vote was RVS initially no? For a 21 player game seems very convenient that your RVS vote just happened to morph into your biggest scumread
That's happened plenty of times for me and was actually right on a few of them if I recall correctly, this is just pointless shade.
In post 50, Marshmallow Marshall wrote:Are we really reading into the reasons for which people read other games when they were bored? That looks like a prototype of NAI thing to me.
This reads like busywork to me. Fake attempt at looking like town doing things useful for town. Bell is my first scumread so far.
In post 50, Marshmallow Marshall wrote:Are we really reading into the reasons for which people read other games when they were bored? That looks like a prototype of NAI thing to me.
This reads like busywork to me. Fake attempt at looking like town doing things useful for town. Bell is my first scumread so far.
LOL, voted for the wrong player.
VOTE: MM Choo choo!
If 72 flips wolf, Bell and MM are the same alignment. Assuming no 3ps
Naked votes give me the vote tag finger twitches. Though EE's response to that vote is wolfy, and nero's reaction to that is the same as mine I just realised so that's probably town
FoS on Norwegian
"Am I a ghost like you, caught between the seams of two intertwining melodies?"
In post 436, Town looter wrote:Fwesnid I have actually flipped based on 384, and have a reasonably strong town read on them.
What is it about 384 makes you have a reasonably strong TR? 384 seems fluffy and null to me.
Mostly because he had no reason to go back and call himself out about being my second nibble. I also feel like his response to my shitty case, seems genuine.
In post 438, Town looter wrote:Bleh, just as I was starting to get a gut scum feeling about Superbowl (SB), MM throws a proper case together and is going to make it look like I am sheeping (for the 2nd or 3rd time in this game ).
My read started after re-reading the Stanley interaction. I think Scum!SB genuinely thinks it's a good case that he can latch onto and look like he is scumhunting. And it kind of is, except for the fact that there absolutely could be a SvT interaction that "feels" forced (I take Stanley's response as a throw-away gut feeling after reading - I have made similar statements): Scum could be doing the forcing, which gives the conversation a forced feel overall. Given I have a mild town read on Stan, I am willing to trust his gut in this.
Then there is the reluctance to respond openly, which could be scum motivated as the information may not exist.
And then the response to mis-quoting in 308; later you say you were going to respond, but your initial response doesn't really add up. I think a more natural town response would be to respond to 235, probably in a slightly flustered way given you mis-posted.
All very minor things, but they all add up.
I also am getting town vibes from Nero (and NoPowerOverMe, which will matter in a second). Trusting these vibes puts a question mark over Glitch. And where are you in Glitch's reads? Right where a scum partner would be. I know it is absurd looking for associations prior to a single flip. But like I say, the little things are adding up.
Spoiler:
In post 398, Glitch wrote:The difference in a 4 vote wagon and a 5 vote wagon in this game is literally so miniscule that it makes no difference, especially when one of those votes is Lapsa. The MM wagon will continue to die down until MM comes back on and responds to the investigation kicked off by CSF and reminded by me in my post above. If his response is shitty then I'm all for building a serious wagon then. But let's not pretend that 3 votes + Lapsa is a remarkable wagon opportunity to pass up. It's not.
I love a good, strong wagon. The MM wagon is not one as it stands and my vote remains more useful on you.
So far today I'll be cool with serious wagons forming on Nero, MM depending on response, or Norway. I won't be voting Superbowl or NPOM as they are my highest TRs, CSF is almost up to that same peak tier.
Bell why does Nero feel townie to you?
Nero, why are you hesitant to accept the town block invitation?
Popopo, have you not shown up yet because of the vote tag rule?
VOTE: Superbowl
This feels like such a good, genuine effort but it's just really off. I get where you're coming from, and if you want to SR me for my own actions that's fine and we can totally talk about it, but your SR of me because of my TR on your top SR is a very weak association argument, and from your post, you know that. Your entire argument is a stretch and instead of making a self-admittedly weak case, I think it would be best to try and push elsewhere with stronger reasoning.
FTR when I play scum I bus the hell out of my scumbuddies. I wouldn't say if I were scum this game, but you can check out Mini 2149 where I played scum with popopo, mavsfan, and Dunnstral and I ripped into all of them consistently throughout the game. If I had more games to show you this I would but currently I don't have any other completed scum games of mine online to reference.
Yeah, any SR on you I have is wafer thin - It's more a product of my currently favoured Town!Nero scenario. I don't really get your argument against him - I see a fairly brash, antagonistic type trying to build pressure on people. Could be full of shit, but at this stage feels town to me. I also liked his logic more in the whole Stanley/Superbowl/Norwegian/Nero thing.
).
