New to site, came in at behest of Hayker, but have experience with mafia adjacent gamesBest game as town or scum?
2nd will do if you wanna shorten itNicknames?
probably 1-3 visits a day depending on work schedule hours can vary wildly especially nowadaysHow is your activity going to be this game?
From my PoV You, LM, NPOM would seem to be doing this which makes me think townlean.In post 297, ben dover123 wrote:Yeah this is how people should approach games. Scum are going to try and deceive you but town will townslip because they are just town.In post 295, NoPowerOverMe wrote:I usually start by townhunting because scum tends to try to mask themselves whereas town can be easier to read on day 1.
Initially he read to me as someone putting in activity without much info coming out of him and I'm rather comfortable sitting on said vote for now.
This feels defensive and off especially as quote below is same postIn post 354, Alchemist21 wrote:Why do you think Hayker is scum?In post 328, Dannflor wrote:Gamma/Alchemist/Hayker] lean more towards scum to varying levels of confidence.
As for Kazyan, don't let them Ryan you. if you are town, maybe they have motivation to shoot down your posts and frustrate you.In post 328, Dannflor wrote:Hayker seems more intent on justifying their actions then in actually following through with their actions (I can explain this more if needed).
I mean what I initially saw was someone seemingly active, then dropping off enough to be prodded. it was more just to see what happened.In post 372, Papa Zito wrote: Actual question - You feel Alchemist is a worse offender of "activity without info" than anyone else in the game?
well if it wasn't defensive then at best it was unhelpful. you're both not parsing the only only confirmed town's thoughts and just making noise.In post 378, Alchemist21 wrote: I didn’t see his reason for Hayker. I saw his reason for Gamma and would have asked about it if I hadn’t.
How are you getting “defensive” from that post as opposed to “he didn’t see that part?”
Him asking Dann a redundant question/noiseIn post 383, Papa Zito wrote: Which interaction with Dann are you referring to here?
What caused the change specifically? you don't seem to so much as acknowledge Alchemist's presence until the "wagon" started forming with DannIn post 260, Elements wrote:I like Alchemist and Gamma
This is where I'm going to wish I had more experience on the site. How are power roles generally distributed? is the Macho cop/doctor combo to strong for most minis? I realize it's a closed setup but I'm unsure how the site balances. These questions are for Dann since he's only one that can give me a guaranteed town view.In post 747, Hayker wrote:A town doctor and a town machocop in the same game? Are you kidding me? I sincerely doubt such a setup would get cleared these days on this site. A town doc/cop combo can be powerful enough as is. I hammered for the obvious lie it was. How was I to expect it was a bad townie lie.
Lying about your role seems like a thing Kazyan(Alch's claim of cop) so the significance is he's maintaining the claim despite it...i thinkIn post 794, Kazyan wrote:What? Hayker made that claimIn post 790, HeWhoSwims wrote:Idk. Maybe I believe too much in the good side of people or whatever but it would seem outlandish to me to fakeclaim a full doctor of all roles, place the hammer, defend the claim up and down and especially in a game where we already have 3PRs on the table right now -- would scum dare to do that? Would it be worth it to ask a possible other protective to "counterclaim", seeing if we have a doc its out on the table already, or is that incredibly dumb?beforethree confirmed power roles happened. He's holding onto the claim because backpedaling would just be confirmation that he lied and is Mafia. It seems pretty straightforward to me.
I was trying to explain what I thought HWS's logic was. Hayker is holding to a claim of Doctor despite other a JOAT and BP role having been revealed. Now this would be a pretty outlandish thing for him to claim, scum would realize it was outlandish. So is he town or scum because of this? in short, WIFOM. I'd like to hear more from HWS though.In post 800, Gamma Emerald wrote:What?
could you elaborate about what specifically you think is FOS worthy of PZ's analysis? you and LM seem to have issues with itIn post 813, NoPowerOverMe wrote:FOS: Papa Zito
there's veggies on that pizza? I only see some green pepperIn post 816, NoPowerOverMe wrote:I'm upset about the veggies on the pizza.
I disagree, his supposed "I'm going to vote everyone once D1" didn't really happen, He didn't vote several people, including me. obfuscation of intent?In post 805, Papa Zito wrote:I can't get anything else from the Elements vote (260) The self-imposed vote restriction is extremely aggravating.
correct. that is where I am getting that readIn post 913, Papa Zito wrote:This is in reference to 790 correct?In post 911, 2ndchosen1 wrote:HWS_ Scumlean/??? _ Leans on player meta to defend hayker. Crappy role fishing. General Non-Participation(not just activity, but also content).
could you elaborate on which posts suggest NPOM was anxious?In post 940, northsidegal wrote: how confident are you on NPOM / agar? his is the main slot i'm flip flopping on, all the others are at least approaching one direction or the other. i feel as though NPOM was immediately and obviously way more anxious in another scum game that i looked at (although that was his only one), and as the kids say i have ~reasons~ to think he might be town, but even still there's a residual doubt.
i think i agree with you more than i disagree with you so far, although maybe not to a huge degree. both kazyan and lunar are really the only ones on the town side for me, with gamma and elements being scumreads.
While my demeanor is certainly passive I don't necessarily see how my play has been. D1, I was the first vote on Alch, due to him not fully reading one of Dann's posts where he asked dann a question. Afterwards, I was immediately concerned about D1 call of Doctor but didn't move my vote as you don't vote doc. That bit of hesitance moved over onto D2 due to a Dann rebuke. In addition, I thought it might be beneficial to try and hear out what people would say about the what ifs as it could lead to other thought processes. I also find it strange that the self hammer came as I announced intent to hammer and not on the other E-1s and am trying to think of why.In post 1114, unwnd wrote:Your first post indicates extensive experience with him, yet you remained kinda passive towards his claim and everything else going on. Why?
As for "Nuance" I'm not doing IIoA as I do list my conclusions and reasonings in my posts. As for completeness, I would rather hear someone's thoughts to completion as to make a better judgement and as such provide what I think to completion as much as I can in my posts, to the point that I quote or put post number so that my posts are easier to context in ISO, especially since I'm not regularly on. Considering the lack of questions on my stuff until now, I'd like to think I accomplish that.In post 1135, Kazyan wrote:2ndchosen1's posts look really safe and inoffensive to me--even when he disagrees with someone, the points are more the vein of providing nuance/completeness than 'you are wrong because of reasons'. This makes me think he might be the jailkeeper laying low.
HWS also wanted to try and role fish, but this has me super uncomfortable and again the only reasoning I see for this is help Mafia target their Night Kills, especially as Kazyan pointed out, mass role claiming wouldn't exactly help right now.In post 1131, northsidegal wrote: i would like to hear people's thoughts on the merits of a massclaim today
But that's what you did? The immediate call and dismissal of the idea when one person shot it down. There was vague reasoning in the post, and I don't think getting kazyan to disagree with you on that is enough.In post 1142, northsidegal wrote:i wouldn't just throw some plan to benefit scum out with no reasoning and then back down the instant someone says "i disagree". i think that my progression there really only makes sense as genuine, and my lack of elaboration was deliberate.
In post 1182, Elements wrote:I think this has been swept under the rugIn post 792, HeWhoSwims wrote:Duh.
You know what I meant, I hope. But I have my questions. I don't know Hayker at all so maybe his meta is to do this shit, but it seems like a too convoluted plan to eliminate him right away.
It has me thinking I might be doing the same thing there I originally did to Alchemist. I find what I think is a tell and tunnel on it a bit to much. It still isn't enough for me to feel off on that mark at the moment as "~reasons~ to townread NPOM/unwnd" feel like a LAMIST PR. The interactions between Elements and NSG seem both hostile but with nothing happening between them, almost feels like a show. The HWS dialogue above that elements brings up does bring up that the slot itself is iffy. nsg also seems upset that I have grievances about who was in the slot earlier when most the reads done on NPOM/unwnd come from the NPOM side. While the call on "I'm not bad at this game so my actions aren't scummy" hits my thoughts on Hanlon's razor. Sometimes it is just malice, it cost very little to make that call and then backup and go "lol jk that would be a terrible scum move" and nonetheless IC is potentially calling for it.In post 1165, Dannflor wrote:What does the fact that I was thinking along the same lines as NSG and NSG's explanation about the 2nd half of this do to this read, 2ndchosen?In post 1153, 2ndchosen1 wrote:HWS/NSG Scumread - calls for role fishing on HWS and nsg now, NSG even said I'm "pocketing" by simply providing analysis in 1022 which seems a subtle way of buddying town.
In post 1174, unwnd wrote:I really believe in the timing and necessity of posts. I'm very much a player who is trying to figure out the gamestate instead of individual tells, even if I use them for a foundation. This is just the way I prefer to play the game. I'm always considering what is happening in front of me, but it only means so much. This is why I posed the questions I did and approached the game in the matter I have when I replaced, because such reads are only of value in the split second it's created. Let me explain: I believe that we're not immutable people. I believe it is not inherently scummy to change your mind. It all requires intent, and some kind of specificity. I'm not really satisfied in just saying 'this guy is scum', I want to pinpoint the exact instance of what you were thinking, why you did it, and how you did it. That basically just breaks down what makes this game fun for me and you can read that part however you want.
If by raw you mean engaging at an emotional level. Certainly in a mafia game without voice chat. I try to come at stuff by thinking of motive and what would be optimal or near optimal play FMPOV. I also can only be on so many times a day of which I spend most reading. I don't see how this questioning on my playstyle helps.In post 1176, unwnd wrote:2ndchosen, do you consider yourself not very good at having raw interactions with people? A lot of your posts seem very isolated and not really tuned into what's happening in front of you.
As much as your post claim to be looking at game state, I don't see much in that info coming forth from you. I see only an almost emotional based reading. Perhaps you could enlighten me as to how the game state reads to you and why. What would cause Dann be spared? What are your takes on GE and PZ's deaths? Is the general Role call worthwhile and why? Do the interactions between NSG and Elements read as TvT, TvS, SvT or SvS and why? I see Dann's evaluation on Agar as potentially correct, what do you make of it?In post 327, Papa Zito wrote:!!!!!!!!!! BEGIN PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT !!!!!!!!!!
PLAYSTYLE DISCUSSIONS DO NOT FIND SCUM
THIS GAME IS ENDLESSLY DEBATING PLAYSTYLE NONSENSE
LET'S FOCUS ON MESSAGE AND INTENT INSTEAD
THANK YOU IN ADVANCE
!!!!!!!!!! END PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT !!!!!!!!!!
In post 1154, northsidegal wrote:considering the fact that i was not in the game at the time of 536, implying that that comment was me saying that you're pocketing me seems incredibly silly.
My logic was you came in and basically said "this style of post is what I like" which as I said back then felt like a subtle way of buddying up to town. Now maybe it wasn't to overt. I also have the major concern of rolecall from you and HWS, which you've addressed but not really answered me satisfactorily. I don't have a quote from you but for the slot to ask for rolecall from both players yesterday and today felt legitimately weird and your hostile attitude towards the line of questioning makes me want to push it harder. So, I'll ask you a question. What benefit would a mass rolecall have had towards the town as of when you called for it and why?In post 1154, northsidegal wrote:this is an either incredibly mistaken or incredibly dishonest reading of what i said in 1022. i said that a post like 536 was "the perfect way to pocket me because..." as a way of saying that i really like that style of post.
I don't see how that reasoning would exclude him from being scum. One could be on that wagon and playing distance. I don't think they'd pull Haykers at this point, so they aren't gonna vote themselves out.In post 1271, Kazyan wrote:This is a pretty spicy claim.In post 1269, Elements wrote:the reason I haven't been voted off yet is both scum don't want to be on my wagon
In post 1281, Elements wrote:nsg, if you want to move the wagon off me an onto Kazyan I will join you
Maybe Kazyan is simply not as informed as you? After all you've got ~reasons~ to think the way you do.In post 1274, northsidegal wrote:then why do you believe what you do / why is your vote still where it is
btw unwnd, I see this as game state analysis, I've shown you some of mine, now show me some of yours. and it best be tomorrow.In post 1288, unwnd wrote:Just wanted to say this is appreciated
I'm backloaded to hell right now and this game will require the most out of me compared to the other ones, so I want to curate my thoughts very carefully before I give it more attention
In post 1309, northsidegal wrote: Don't Use These Weird Programmer Ways of Saying Stuff Just Say +Day -Night Or Something Like That
anyways the answer to your question is no, as far as i can tell. assuming our vig has an ounce of sense they will holster tonight unless we hit scum today, in which case it is always the right choice to shoot. if we hit today, not shooting leads us to 5 alive 1 scum from which we have two town-directed elimination shots before it's game over for sure. even if the vig lives to 3 person lylo, they can't shoot scum after lynching incorrectly because the town wincon stipulates that at least one townie must still be alive. so to reiterate the "holster after scum lynch today" line gets us two town directed eliminations. contrast shooting, which gets us one with the vig shot, one lynch when we're at 4 people alive 1 scum, and then another potential vig shot (assuming the vig lives). assuming the vig dies tonight we only get two town-directed eliminations, but it's possible we would get three, so it's optimal to shoot.
yeah, I pretty much said as much in the post. At this point I'm just trying to pull any kind of tell I can, like aggressive jumping on what would be a bad suggestion. is it not something you have done?In post 1323, northsidegal wrote:it's classic iioa and despite bringing up two posts from two people in a somewhat critical manner he dodges really giving any reads, which is pretty important giving how little time we have
earlier when i unvoted elements i was considering kaz first given he's the commonality in kaz/elements and kaz/2nd, but then i re-metad elements
Death Tunnels are bad mkay?In post 1373, Elements wrote:Even when it's your scumread you're arguing with?In post 1372, Kazyan wrote: I like the cool-story-bro about what I was thinking, but this is another case of brains working differently. Given a situation where I have to defend a point textually, I tend to concede in a very non-internet-argument way, which was what happened there. (I had to reconsider my reads a lot over these past few pages, though, obviously.
I didn't really see a why beyond the solo solving sessions and meta in 1329. I partially dismissed the meta as it wasn't enough for me to interact with and the solo sessions are a definitely a point in favor of NSG.In post 1353, Dannflor wrote:I'm not really considering NSG at all at this pointIn post 1351, unwnd wrote:It's not a thought I want to paranoia myself into consdering this point until a few things happen. I could also maybe see Kazyan/NSG in that position as well which is why I asked you more about your confidence in NSG read
Ok, I see it and it's a fair assessment. I've effectively been a mad dog lunging at things even with Alchemist.In post 1388, unwnd wrote:There's also a readslist from me quoted by LM above your post
I suppose I don't currently have the range to do that. I know the guy out of game but I don't know enough of the game to make inferences on what he might do. That previous thought has given me a more positive look towards meta reads.In post 1389, northsidegal wrote:see, i said that anyone who really analyzed hayker's play as regard elements would probably come out of it thinking pretty strongly one way or another, and so you might think that given my scumreading of elements i would also be pushing that as an angle for them being scum, but i haven't actually really done that. why? it's because i think that actually analyzing hayker's play in the first place—and i mean analyzing it meaningfully—is probably pretty hard. it's pretty easy to look at it and go "obviously this weirdness around elements was him talking to his partner" just as easy as it is to say "he would obviously never do this to his partner". the commonality between both of those arguments is that they're based on basically nothing except how the reader feels hayker might play, which isn't a great foundation.
deeper analysescould be madeif, say, we went into how we think hayker personally might play scum and how he might relate to his scumbuddies, and how the scumteam might have been feeling at certain times of the game and how much they coordinated and how much was planned and so on and so forth. all of those would provide a little more of a justification for viewing hayker's play as aligned one way or another with elements, but that'd all be pretty complicated, and i don't think anyone has really done that.
I see some of your game state analysis but it isn't enough for me to grasp onto.In post 1402, unwnd wrote:What do you mean by solid listing?
I was relying on you being a more experienced player as well as noting you are one of the more active. If my arguments held water you'd most likely see it. We aren't at Elo or MElo yetIn post 1399, Dannflor wrote:In post 1390, 2ndchosen1 wrote: okay that's fair
I suppose asking you to take my word for it meta-wise is a bit much. I was just surprised to see not even any real questioning of "how sure are you really about this" in my direction.
I have and am openly considering that.
Even with that post, why should I consider your position on Kazyan when you've had such a history? His thought process seems far more open to scrutiny than yours. Just saying that you've done this stuff in another game as town isn't really enough for me. While I will consider player meta, I do not hold that players will be consistant about their play and may provide such variations as cover for future games. Simply put, it isn't the meta read from NSG alone that has my suspicion on you.In post 1386, northsidegal wrote: a lot of what i say can really be justified on elements' play this game alone. so are you really that strongly confident in your analysis of hayker's play being non-aligned with elements that it overrides everything else?
I am going to have to do this soon.In post 1391, Kazyan wrote: Anyway, we're running out of time, and fence sitters can pick a side now.
My intention was to actually get a more condensed view out of youIn post 1428, unwnd wrote:His responses are just
So milquetoast. Like they're trying really hard not to offend anyone. That's the impression I got when he unvoted me as well
I meant 1072 apologies. it was late for me when I posted that.In post 1432, Elements wrote:What does 1027 have to do with Kazyan? and why is listening to your top scumread and agreeing with them make someone town?Kazyan - actually listening to the person he scumread, 1027 still comes to mind. Favorable history of interactions.
I'm on the case.In post 1458, Dannflor wrote:Obviously no one vote yet
First, I've looked through recent mini normals and am finding basically all have 3 mafia.In post 1459, Kazyan wrote:Yeah, obviously. Quickhammers and all.
How sure are we that there are two mafia members left, though? If there's only one, then it would make some degree of sense for them to keep hunting for the vig instead of just shooting Dann and getting it over with, and it makes no sense for a two-remaining-mafia to WIFOM that when they're so close to their win condition.
In post 173, Lunar Martian wrote:Or the simpler explanation is that there was too much posting, a bunch of people didn't have time to read, and so we said similar things. But you can twist facts to fit whatever narrative you want if you try hard enough. Have fun with that.In post 148, Gamma Emerald wrote:It’s a vibe thing too. It just seemed a bit of conspicuous timing for him to come in like that. He posted 2 things others had posted as well, which seems like trying to fit in but not knowing how so he just emulated other people.In post 146, Alchemist21 wrote:Is this just a gut read? I complained about the page count too and I could see someone deciding to be lazy and put down a dumb vote without reading anything. Is there something explainable that makes it more scummy than dummy?In post 137, Gamma Emerald wrote:I’m not looking for “excuses” to vote anyone. I feel like LM’s entrance was wack, 5 pages isn’t bad by any measure imo and he made a dumb joke. He doesn’t know how to act rn, which might be newbish or general awkwardness but the feeling when I saw it was scum with a bad entrance.In post 134, ben dover123 wrote:Basically what I am saying is that Lunar can sometimes make these stupid posts so stuff that is stupid but not fully scummy shouldn't be treated as scummy.
If Lunar does make a scummy posts though, then there is an excuse to vote him.
I feel like I might have something because the last time I had I read I felt like I do on LM on, it panned out. So I think I’m right again here.
VOTE: Gamma Emerald
In post 251, Lunar Martian wrote:After some reflection, I believe the following people to be townsfolk: Gamma, Hayker maybe, Ben, Alchemist maybe, NoPower (although he needs to drop the "anyone who attacks the townblock is Mafia" shtick). That leaves seven people within which I'll be focusing my energy for now.
UNVOTE: Gamma
In post 315, Lunar Martian wrote:This all looks like someone who is trying very hard to look like Town.In post 301, Papa Zito wrote:It's not weird in the least. You're not giving any indication of your thought process here. Pointing to someone else's post and saying "yeah that" doesn't tell me whatIn post 272, Kazyan wrote:Pushing this early seems weird, since there wasn't really anything to push about. Wagoning on an early disruption is vaguely scummy, as I've explained in a previous post of mine. There's no reason to OMGUS if you're town.
I'm happy to give more information to the town, but I'm not sure what to say besides repeating myself.you'rethinking. I have to sort your slot. I have to figure out if you got a green or red role PM. The only way for me to do that is to get inside your head. Currently you're doing your level best to prevent me from doing so. The pushback and hand-waving only makes me more suspicious.
This entire line of questioning is noise.In post 296, Elements wrote:ok, but which do you prefer/find easier
I'm extremely curious about this vote.
In post 1472, Lunar Martian wrote:Are you Mafia? How do you explain not getting nightkilled?In post 1470, Dannflor wrote:I'm rather embarrassed to still be alive
In post 1443, Lunar Martian wrote:Wow I see we were really committed to that NSG vote, weren't we?In post 1411, 2ndchosen1 wrote:Well I'm going to head off and either check in the morning or lunch
until then UNVOTE:
I initially didn't see how Mafia would ever want to make that play, but elements pushing back half-heartedly suggests maybe it was a chainsaw? I just don't see why.
In post 1378, Lunar Martian wrote:Also we all basically agree on this. Assuming we are right that two of the bottom 3 are Mafia, I don't really care which two. Flip Elements and then have another look.In post 1364, unwnd wrote:My list looks like this right now even if it's 7 people
Dann
Me
Lunar
NSG
Kaz
Elements
2nd
I'm absolutely confident one of 2nd/Elements flips scum, and now it's been a case of being choosy and determining which reality feels the most true to me. I just need a bit more before I determine if I'm flipping my vote or staying on here. Would you be willing to trust my judgment (despite being wrong on Gamma) if that were the case?
In post 1139, Lunar Martian wrote:To elaborate, there's no pressure or FoS, just a "Hey I don't like you go away!". It's cheap and easy to tell someone to buzz off but with no actual pressure or analysis.In post 1137, Lunar Martian wrote:Feels like distancing between Elements and northsidegal.In post 1133, northsidegal wrote:i also think that we neverreallyhammered out a truly satisfying reason for agar being killed, and with more insight now we might be able to look back and figure out a better reason. at the very least it helps to know for certain that hayker was scum.
don't try to twist what i say for yourself.In post 1132, Elements wrote:I think NSG makes a very good point that we should look into. Especially the bit about scum!unwnd
In post 1092, Lunar Martian wrote:I mean I'm Town, so in that sense you should be. But I don't think that's necessarily a good reason to think I'm Town. I'm more surprised that you don't know I'm Town because I keep saying things and then you keep agreeing. We are constantly on the same page, yet you seem to have a lot of doubt about me. Maybe it's my posting style or something.In post 1090, Dannflor wrote:Should I not be town reading you
In post 904, Lunar Martian wrote:I'll do this for you. I'm already on Papa for coasting and for discrediting me, but not really doing much else or anything to solve. I'll keep an eye on HeWhoSwims.In post 835, Dannflor wrote:I'm by no means 100% confident that Papa Zito/HeWhoSwims are scum. But they are my absolute top picks and since I'm likely to not be participating in this game anymore soon, I would like people to take a long hard look at both of them and particularly my case on them. And if we still have a vig tonight, even better.
But yes, Hayker is #1 priority.
In post 809, Lunar Martian wrote:Nothing Papa is doing is making me confident in him being Town. That post feels like it's trying to either buddy me or draw associations between us.
In post 745, Lunar Martian wrote:Don't like Gamma playing dumb. Wouldn't Town be aware of the general feeling among the Town?
In post 785, Lunar Martian wrote:Don't you have Town intentions? What about your own thinking?In post 784, NoPowerOverMe wrote:There's a difference between sheeping the IC and knowing that they have the best chance of having town intentions.
In post 642, Lunar Martian wrote:I think I figured something out and won't be voting for Papa today. I'd go for alchemist, and AGar is actually making sense about Hayker too. Want to see more from Hayker before I decide. For now I'll vote alchemist.
VOTE: alchemist
In post 670, Lunar Martian wrote:Dislike this.In post 645, Kazyan wrote:VOTE: Hayker
AGar's "screw Hayker" masterpost is convincing. I basically have no idea what Hayker's broader reads are.
Willing to switch to Alchemist at a moment's notice, though.
In post 494, Lunar Martian wrote:You've repeatedly tried to buddy Dannflor with posts like this. You claimed to be masons with him but then you also joke about being scum here.In post 344, PenguinPower wrote:yes pls scumbudy.In post 328, Dannflor wrote:Lunar Martian is also leaning town, not for being limbaity but for other reasons I'll expand on if people need them.
You are scum because you are coasting. This whole game you've done basically nothing. What are your thoughts on who is Mafia and Town? Why haven't you seemed to do anything to try and solve the game?
Also, most people have done some things that suggest that they're Town. You're pretty much unique in not doing so.
In post 458, Lunar Martian wrote:I want to give a list of my thoughts.
These folks are of the Town: Gamma, Hayker, Ben, Kazyan probably, Papa Zito maybe.
Elements has a fair shot of being Town.
Unsure of Alchemist, HeWhoSwims, and 2ndchosen1.
I think PenguinPower and NoPower are probably my two top picks for Mafia.
well my thoughts were already more positive towards Kazyan than unwnd. the post does indeed spell Vigilante, I'd call it confbias but am impressed.In post 401, Lunar Martian wrote:The last paragraph of this post mostly. It has little to do with the game but seems genuine including feeling genuinely frustrated in struggling to get a message across. Not only is there an indication that Kayzan wants to work with Town, but the acknowledgement of a communication issue also explains why people might misconstrue Kayzan's posts as coming from Mafia.In post 386, Kazyan wrote:1) I mean, yeah. I sheeped. That happened. I'm not going to defend it, because I definitely sheeped.In post 385, Gamma Emerald wrote:That seems understandable but there's also the sheeping issues and I feel like it's a bit excessive even then?
I'm curious where Alchemist said anything about lack of optics concern though. Alchemist, if that is correct, why do you find that scummy of Kazyan?
2) My post confirmed your claim that I was concerned about optics. Alchemist does not buy my post's explanation that you are correct. Therefore, Alchemist does not buy that you are correct. You claim is that I was concerned about optics, so Alchemist does not buy that I was concerned about optics. This is subject to change based on whatever Alchemist tries to backpedal on.
In the future--assuming I don't get eliminated--is there something I can do to make my lines of reasoning more clear? Between the two rounds of Elements debacle and this confusion, it's apparent that I'm not great at clarity. Dannflor's earlier null read on me seems to corroborate this.
In post 173, Lunar Martian wrote:Or the simpler explanation is that there was too much posting, a bunch of people didn't have time to read, and so we said similar things. But you can twist facts to fit whatever narrative you want if you try hard enough. Have fun with that.In post 148, Gamma Emerald wrote:It’s a vibe thing too. It just seemed a bit of conspicuous timing for him to come in like that. He posted 2 things others had posted as well, which seems like trying to fit in but not knowing how so he just emulated other people.In post 146, Alchemist21 wrote:Is this just a gut read? I complained about the page count too and I could see someone deciding to be lazy and put down a dumb vote without reading anything. Is there something explainable that makes it more scummy than dummy?In post 137, Gamma Emerald wrote:I’m not looking for “excuses” to vote anyone. I feel like LM’s entrance was wack, 5 pages isn’t bad by any measure imo and he made a dumb joke. He doesn’t know how to act rn, which might be newbish or general awkwardness but the feeling when I saw it was scum with a bad entrance.In post 134, ben dover123 wrote:Basically what I am saying is that Lunar can sometimes make these stupid posts so stuff that is stupid but not fully scummy shouldn't be treated as scummy.
If Lunar does make a scummy posts though, then there is an excuse to vote him.
I feel like I might have something because the last time I had I read I felt like I do on LM on, it panned out. So I think I’m right again here.
VOTE: Gamma Emerald
In post 251, Lunar Martian wrote:After some reflection, I believe the following people to be townsfolk: Gamma, Hayker maybe, Ben, Alchemist maybe, NoPower (although he needs to drop the "anyone who attacks the townblock is Mafia" shtick). That leaves seven people within which I'll be focusing my energy for now.
UNVOTE: Gamma
In post 315, Lunar Martian wrote:This all looks like someone who is trying very hard to look like Town.In post 301, Papa Zito wrote:It's not weird in the least. You're not giving any indication of your thought process here. Pointing to someone else's post and saying "yeah that" doesn't tell me whatIn post 272, Kazyan wrote:Pushing this early seems weird, since there wasn't really anything to push about. Wagoning on an early disruption is vaguely scummy, as I've explained in a previous post of mine. There's no reason to OMGUS if you're town.
I'm happy to give more information to the town, but I'm not sure what to say besides repeating myself.you'rethinking. I have to sort your slot. I have to figure out if you got a green or red role PM. The only way for me to do that is to get inside your head. Currently you're doing your level best to prevent me from doing so. The pushback and hand-waving only makes me more suspicious.
This entire line of questioning is noise.In post 296, Elements wrote:ok, but which do you prefer/find easier
I'm extremely curious about this vote.
In post 1472, Lunar Martian wrote:Are you Mafia? How do you explain not getting nightkilled?In post 1470, Dannflor wrote:I'm rather embarrassed to still be alive
In post 1443, Lunar Martian wrote:Wow I see we were really committed to that NSG vote, weren't we?In post 1411, 2ndchosen1 wrote:Well I'm going to head off and either check in the morning or lunch
until then UNVOTE:
I initially didn't see how Mafia would ever want to make that play, but elements pushing back half-heartedly suggests maybe it was a chainsaw? I just don't see why.
In post 1378, Lunar Martian wrote:Also we all basically agree on this. Assuming we are right that two of the bottom 3 are Mafia, I don't really care which two. Flip Elements and then have another look.In post 1364, unwnd wrote:My list looks like this right now even if it's 7 people
Dann
Me
Lunar
NSG
Kaz
Elements
2nd
I'm absolutely confident one of 2nd/Elements flips scum, and now it's been a case of being choosy and determining which reality feels the most true to me. I just need a bit more before I determine if I'm flipping my vote or staying on here. Would you be willing to trust my judgment (despite being wrong on Gamma) if that were the case?
In post 1139, Lunar Martian wrote:To elaborate, there's no pressure or FoS, just a "Hey I don't like you go away!". It's cheap and easy to tell someone to buzz off but with no actual pressure or analysis.In post 1137, Lunar Martian wrote:Feels like distancing between Elements and northsidegal.In post 1133, northsidegal wrote:i also think that we neverreallyhammered out a truly satisfying reason for agar being killed, and with more insight now we might be able to look back and figure out a better reason. at the very least it helps to know for certain that hayker was scum.
don't try to twist what i say for yourself.In post 1132, Elements wrote:I think NSG makes a very good point that we should look into. Especially the bit about scum!unwnd
In post 1092, Lunar Martian wrote:I mean I'm Town, so in that sense you should be. But I don't think that's necessarily a good reason to think I'm Town. I'm more surprised that you don't know I'm Town because I keep saying things and then you keep agreeing. We are constantly on the same page, yet you seem to have a lot of doubt about me. Maybe it's my posting style or something.In post 1090, Dannflor wrote:Should I not be town reading you
In post 904, Lunar Martian wrote:I'll do this for you. I'm already on Papa for coasting and for discrediting me, but not really doing much else or anything to solve. I'll keep an eye on HeWhoSwims.In post 835, Dannflor wrote:I'm by no means 100% confident that Papa Zito/HeWhoSwims are scum. But they are my absolute top picks and since I'm likely to not be participating in this game anymore soon, I would like people to take a long hard look at both of them and particularly my case on them. And if we still have a vig tonight, even better.
But yes, Hayker is #1 priority.
In post 809, Lunar Martian wrote:Nothing Papa is doing is making me confident in him being Town. That post feels like it's trying to either buddy me or draw associations between us.
In post 745, Lunar Martian wrote:Don't like Gamma playing dumb. Wouldn't Town be aware of the general feeling among the Town?
In post 785, Lunar Martian wrote:Don't you have Town intentions? What about your own thinking?In post 784, NoPowerOverMe wrote:There's a difference between sheeping the IC and knowing that they have the best chance of having town intentions.
In post 642, Lunar Martian wrote:I think I figured something out and won't be voting for Papa today. I'd go for alchemist, and AGar is actually making sense about Hayker too. Want to see more from Hayker before I decide. For now I'll vote alchemist.
VOTE: alchemist
In post 670, Lunar Martian wrote:Dislike this.In post 645, Kazyan wrote:VOTE: Hayker
AGar's "screw Hayker" masterpost is convincing. I basically have no idea what Hayker's broader reads are.
Willing to switch to Alchemist at a moment's notice, though.
In post 494, Lunar Martian wrote:You've repeatedly tried to buddy Dannflor with posts like this. You claimed to be masons with him but then you also joke about being scum here.In post 344, PenguinPower wrote:yes pls scumbudy.In post 328, Dannflor wrote:Lunar Martian is also leaning town, not for being limbaity but for other reasons I'll expand on if people need them.
You are scum because you are coasting. This whole game you've done basically nothing. What are your thoughts on who is Mafia and Town? Why haven't you seemed to do anything to try and solve the game?
Also, most people have done some things that suggest that they're Town. You're pretty much unique in not doing so.
In post 458, Lunar Martian wrote:I want to give a list of my thoughts.
These folks are of the Town: Gamma, Hayker, Ben, Kazyan probably, Papa Zito maybe.
Elements has a fair shot of being Town.
Unsure of Alchemist, HeWhoSwims, and 2ndchosen1.
I think PenguinPower and NoPower are probably my two top picks for Mafia.
In post 401, Lunar Martian wrote:The last paragraph of this post mostly. It has little to do with the game but seems genuine including feeling genuinely frustrated in struggling to get a message across. Not only is there an indication that Kayzan wants to work with Town, but the acknowledgement of a communication issue also explains why people might misconstrue Kayzan's posts as coming from Mafia.In post 386, Kazyan wrote:1) I mean, yeah. I sheeped. That happened. I'm not going to defend it, because I definitely sheeped.In post 385, Gamma Emerald wrote:That seems understandable but there's also the sheeping issues and I feel like it's a bit excessive even then?
I'm curious where Alchemist said anything about lack of optics concern though. Alchemist, if that is correct, why do you find that scummy of Kazyan?
2) My post confirmed your claim that I was concerned about optics. Alchemist does not buy my post's explanation that you are correct. Therefore, Alchemist does not buy that you are correct. You claim is that I was concerned about optics, so Alchemist does not buy that I was concerned about optics. This is subject to change based on whatever Alchemist tries to backpedal on.
In the future--assuming I don't get eliminated--is there something I can do to make my lines of reasoning more clear? Between the two rounds of Elements debacle and this confusion, it's apparent that I'm not great at clarity. Dannflor's earlier null read on me seems to corroborate this.
I still have seen more from Kazyan then I ever got from unwnd. you can say you tried to "understand" me, but in reality you've simply dismissed everything I try and say and resisted answering anything that might have helped us actually be able to gauge each other.In post 1502, Lunar Martian wrote:Why wait to crumb until day four? I kinda think this is a SvS gambit.