Mini Normal 2279: VGSR - GAME OVER

[Greeting]

Hi.

VOTE: Nuclear Gandhi

[Greeting]

Frog's Strategy

1) Post survey start

2) Town Read Eiralax and Greeting

3) ???

4) ???

[Greeting]

but yes i would like to find the mafias i do not really get what you’re saying

His argument was based on the fact that it's really uncommon for players to use plural 'mafias' instead of 'mafia', which in his eyes makes you look like you're trying to fit in.

I think it's an exaggeration, but that's what I gathered from the interaction.

[Greeting]

Catching up, I am happy to announce that both

intuile

and

Ausuka

are probably town.

Frogsterking

less likely town than the other two, but still I think more likely town than scum.

Consensus (or close to consensus) reads I have:

Frogsterking, Ausuka, Inutile,

Hoppip

Town

What's so towny about

hoppip

?

[Greeting]

I'd also like Greeting to elaborate on their reads I guess

I have played with

Frogsterking

before. He likes to troll around, and, in my experience, tone-wise, he usually falls into the category "too scummy to be scum". It's a meta read from experience, because not knowing that, his ISO is very confusing.

Still, there is a more obvious sign pointing to him being town: I completely agree with his reads from 41, and he was the first one in the thread to make this observation actually. Some of his later reads are admittedly a bit hurried, and shaky (such as 137), but to be fair this overall sounds like town!

Frog

actively sorting rather than scum!

Frog

throwing random reads around. Maybe if he expands more on his reads, the townread will get more firm, but I'm happy to give him a townlean for now.

People don't tend to take him seriously because of the way he posts, but

Frogsterking

can be a pretty capable player if he wants to be.

[Greeting]

@

Ausuka

The read on

intuile

/shiki is more of a tone/meta read too. I've played with

intuile

's other alts and she also played in a game I hosted. To be fair, if someone has so many alts, they could just play in a different way on each alt and no one would notice.

Intuile

tends to play the exact same way tone-wise when she's town, and this game is no different. Her interactions with you sounds like town!

intuile

sorting and your responses sound like a townie defending himself.

This is a pretty standard game opener for this site, I didn't really have anything to say to you because nothing you said was alignment indicative, sorry for ignoring you

yeah your opener pretty paint by numbers but you're aware so

like

vote someone
say something about someone else in same post
encourage engagement
make an early read!!

I don't think it would be typical of scum to try to make a read out of this, but in my mind it reads as typical of town!

intuile

to try to make a read out of you being friendly in your opening post (5).

She actually said herself what she does in mafia games, and I confirm that in my experience it's true:

but not alignment related, so! more a wondering aloud

Tl;dr: your interaction with

intuile

looks like town vs. town, and shiki is just being herself.

As for strictly you, I would say that your tone reads as towny in general, but I would say that my townread of

intuile

is stronger than my townread of you, as there is significantly less content and active scumhunting in your posts.

[Greeting]

Serious vote?

It wasn't when I cast it, but now that I have caught up, I don't really feel inclined to change it. I think pressure on that slot is justified.

[Greeting]

i would rather this not continue to detract from us finding mafias

This has big "how do you do fellow kids" energy

VOTE: Inutile

What do you think of the rest of its posts?

frankly most of it confuses me and it seems like lots of weird rationalizations. unless this user is normally on edge all the time, it looks bad

Hmm...I suppose that's fair. But I'm not so sure that "looks bad" is the same as "looks scummy." For instance, I think it looks bad that you're shading Inutile for superficial reasons. But do you think that's scummy?

Town

If this was a Newbie game, I would be more likely to agree. But I find clueless behavior like this in Normal games more suspicious. I guess this is a risk actual newbies take if they don't play a newbie game before jumping to the Normal queue.

[Greeting]

Do what I said or I won't explain ANYTHING to you.

.........................................................

Spoiler: ???

Yes, daddy.

[Greeting]

Ausuka

, any thoughts about my townreads?

[Greeting]

Ausuka

, any thoughts about my townreads?

I think the inutile read is pretty convincing but I'm townreading it anyway.

One thing I'm wondering about is that you implied you townread me pretty heavily earlier but now are saying you don't think I've been scumhunting much - did your read change or something?

Wait, what?

I am

townreading

intuile

. What do you mean by that sentence?

As for the read on you, while reading the thread, the tone and responses looked towny, but when I checked your ISO, the overall game contribution looked worse than

intuile

’s.

[Greeting]

@

a lot of players

It's Gandhi not Ghandi.

[Greeting]

Another thing - I don't get the refusal to share. This game is about co-operation. If you repeatedly refuse to talk you're transgressing, which may get you a sanction. And 3 sanctions is a full desadulation. And I might vote you for the simple crime of not talking.

Good. I second this sentiment.

This + his reads (113; I mean I kinda disagree with

hoppip

, but it's still a valid read from a town point of view - speaking of122) + the earlier quoted post makes me think

furtiveglance

is town.

[Greeting]

[quote="In

Do what I said or I won't explain ANYTHING to you.

.........................................................

Spoiler: ???

Yes, daddy.

Not me thinking the same thing when I read that

Of all the posts I made this game, this is the one you found the most interesting?

[Greeting]

I see a lot of talk about

DeltaWave

and they're definitely in the PoE for me. The ISO is quite shallow, when at this point there's more than enough content to make deeper reads. Not going to lie,

intuile

is probably my strongest townlean for now, and the fact that this is the player

DeltaWave

has been so focused in this game makes him look worse in my eyes.

I suppose I agree with him that

hoppip

is sus, and

Ausuka

is town, but my gut tells me that something's not right here.

i'm actually interested in hearing from the sideliners since this has mostly been the same few active people talking

I'd be actually very much interested in hearing more from you.

[Greeting]

@

a lot of players

It's Gandhi not Ghandi.

(also it's inutile not intuile +)

Sorry.

[Greeting]

that's a fallacy that even very seasoned mafia players make, so i'll call it a null for you. specifically, I'm referring to the idea that if you think Player A is town and Player B votes for Player A then Player B is likely mafia. makes assumptions that aren't true, and day 1 usually consists of town primarily going at each other while mafia eggs it on or hides. but like I said, even people who have played many many games make this mistake so I will call it a null for you.

I don't fully agree with this. Casting suspicion on players who are obvtown

is

a valid scumtell.

i'm standing by my position that inutile is sus and i really don't care that it's making people scumread me. i'm not going to back off what i think is my best read right now because it's unpopular or it might get me eliminated. clearly, an inutile elimination is not going to happen right now based on how people are reading her but i don't operate on consensus like that. i truly do not understand why people see inutile as town. as i said before, if there's evidence that she always plays this way (even as town) then my tune might change but to date, nobody has done so unless I somehow missed it. you can think i'm mafia all you want but i would have picked a safer bet than this if that was the case. if you really think that mafia will wagon popular players instead of killing them at night i dont know what to tell you.

Is 67 the only reason you are sussing

intuile

?

[Greeting]

intuile

I promise I'll be more careful.

[Greeting]

that's a fallacy that even very seasoned mafia players make, so i'll call it a null for you. specifically, I'm referring to the idea that if you think Player A is town and Player B votes for Player A then Player B is likely mafia. makes assumptions that aren't true, and day 1 usually consists of town primarily going at each other while mafia eggs it on or hides. but like I said, even people who have played many many games make this mistake so I will call it a null for you.

I don't fully agree with this. Casting suspicion on players who are obvtown

is

a valid scumtell.

i'm standing by my position that inutile is sus and i really don't care that it's making people scumread me. i'm not going to back off what i think is my best read right now because it's unpopular or it might get me eliminated. clearly, an inutile elimination is not going to happen right now based on how people are reading her but i don't operate on consensus like that. i truly do not understand why people see inutile as town. as i said before, if there's evidence that she always plays this way (even as town) then my tune might change but to date, nobody has done so unless I somehow missed it. you can think i'm mafia all you want but i would have picked a safer bet than this if that was the case. if you really think that mafia will wagon popular players instead of killing them at night i dont know what to tell you.

Is 67 the only reason you are sussing

intuile

?

.

[Greeting]

missed that post. disagree with you on a scumtell like that. "obvtown" is not the same as "confirmed town" and i can't tell you how many times that someone who is "obvtown" on d1 ends up as scum by the end of the game. what is "obv" to you might not be "obv" to everyone else and what you're basically saying is that people should conform to the groupthink, which is basically what scum do to stay under the radar.

ANYWAY 67 is not the only reason why I sus intuile. I hope I spelled that right. as i stated previously, the frantic style is personally a lot like how i sounded when i was first playing scum and that rang some bells for me. also, i'm not as comfortable with locking people as town in d1 and letting them slip under the radar until the endgame as some people seem to be. if other people aren't going to do the suspecting then i will.

--

side note, plz do not think my associations are necessarily teamsolves. just pointing out information for the future, in case i get eliminated.

Of course, "obvtown" is not the same as "confirmed town". But players who are towny on first glance should be given the benefit of the doubt. It is impossible to accurately sort everyone on Day 1. Reads of players can change during the game, when their behavior changes or a troubling voting pattern arises.

You can be stubborn about this if you want, but in terms of winning the game for town, this approach is usually not very effective.

[Greeting]

Sorting.

Greeting

inutile

Ausuka

furtiveglance
BlueBloodedToffee
Frogsterking

DeltaWave

PoE:

Juice
hutmeil
hoppip
Eiralox
Mohab500
Nuclear Gandhi

[Greeting]

UNVOTE: Nuclear Gandhi

I will catch up tomorrow.

[Greeting]

I was out today. I'll be able to post more this time tomorrow. In short, Deltawave has been giving some good stuff and I quite like it, enough to unvote. I think Eiralox looks worse from their back and forth and I think the "I faked a read to test reactions" is easily faked and not amazing townplay in any case. BBT is a bit sus but not enough to vote yet. I'll vote Juice because they laughed about being sussed for RVS or something and it was weird.

VOTE: Juice

I think this post is scummy - part of it is just that it feels a bit slimy? But I'm particular I don't get the eiralox read and I think the push on Juice is opportunistic and unlikely to lead to much while being a seemingly safe route for scum - I think town would be more likely to expand on the BBT read or push Eiralox harder since it's more likely to generate AI content at this stage

You may be thinking that he's limbait, but looking into his ISO, is there anything to townread

Juice

for?

[Greeting]

I agree with the pressure on

Juice

. Or anyone from my PoE to be honest (320). One could say that the slot might not get any townier (or scummier) with pressure, but leaving these kinds of slots be is perfect for mafia, because they will never be townread, and horrible for town sorting. The game has now been going for a few good days and he's given very little.

I'll wait for the tally and then probably jump in.

[Greeting]

@mod

V/LA until the 27th. Will probably post in the midst, but not very often

[Greeting]

Announcing intent to hammer Juice.

[Greeting]

why tho?

Announcing intent to hammer Juice.

i… don’t get it

Because the slot has given us literally nothing to townread it even though the game has been going for several days now and plenty of content has been made.

Juice

has approximately 15 hours to claim before I hammer.

[Greeting]

why tho?

Announcing intent to hammer Juice.

i… don’t get it

Because the slot has given us literally nothing to townread it even though the game has been going for several days now and plenty of content has been made.

Juice

has approximately 15 hours to claim before I hammer.

nah i already gave them 24 hours. read above. so you saying this is de facto scummy to me.

I am in V/LA.

[Greeting]

I see Juice being replaced. I guess it’s probably common sense that the replacement should be given a chance before dropping a hammer, but I see he’s no longer at E-1 so that’s fine.

I read about half of what happened in the game with a clouded mind due to tiredness, and apparently some people are scumreading me for announcing intent to hammer. Would you rather I quickhammerred when I could?

Though I townread none of these two players so kinda not sure if it’s even worth my effort to engage with this.

Another thing I saw, I think

inutile

being concerned about the day ending early. I don’t share this concern. If the slot warrants suspicion, I don’t really see the need to drag the day on to the very last minute. This point has some validity if it’s later in the game. Town could, for instance, be middle of a massclaim and someone hasn’t had the chance to claim their result (happened in Large Normal 240 which has just ended, and because of quickhammering a scummy player who turned out to be scum, town paradoxically lost). Or, if there is enough doubt about the player being scummy. But I would say that at the time when I made my last post there wasn’t much prospect of the slot getting more towny.

[Greeting]

Serious vote?

It wasn't when I cast it, but now that I have caught up, I don't really feel inclined to change it. I think pressure on that slot is justified.

This seems odd, given that Greeting hasn’t talked much about Gandhi.

How is it odd?

[Greeting]

Ausuka

, any thoughts about my townreads?

I think the inutile read is pretty convincing but I'm townreading it anyway.

One thing I'm wondering about is that you implied you townread me pretty heavily earlier but now are saying you don't think I've been scumhunting much - did your read change or something?

Wait, what?

I am

townreading

intuile

. What do you mean by that sentence?

As for the read on you, while reading the thread, the tone and responses looked towny, but when I checked your ISO, the overall game contribution looked worse than

intuile

’s.

Greeting’s scumhunting seems very selective, he’s actively talking to very few players and ignoring a lot of other stuff happening in-thread.

Of course it is. I can’t focus on everything all the time. There are players on MS whose posts I just usually don’t read, because my head hurts when I do (and that includes this game too). I leave sorting them to others or just try to focus on them when I really have no other choice.

[Greeting]

MHD is feeling town to me. we aren't going to eliminate gandhi.

keeping nero in the likely town pool (doesn't change my inutile read)

i like the greeting wagon. i don't want to vote until we get a VC because idk how close greeting is to hammer.

My biggest issue with the Greeting wagon is that Greeting is V/la so they don't have the ability to adequately defend themselves. I also haven't checked Greeting's meta to see if they normally propose this strategy D1.

Posts like the above are fueling my confbias of a Delta/Gandhi/MHD solve.

If you were talking about 542, I have always considered days on MafiaScum to be excessively long. As in, good to have a time backup, but dragging on days when there’s a scumslot agreed upon feels unnecessary. The major counterargument came from a recently-ended game, but it’s not applicable in Day 1 + town really did misplay that game.

[Greeting]

I see a lot of talk about

DeltaWave

and they're definitely in the PoE for me. The ISO is quite shallow, when at this point there's more than enough content to make deeper reads. Not going to lie,

intuile

is probably my strongest townlean for now, and the fact that this is the player

DeltaWave

has been so focused in this game makes him look worse in my eyes.

I suppose I agree with him that

hoppip

is sus, and

Ausuka

is town, but my gut tells me that something's not right here.

i'm actually interested in hearing from the sideliners since this has mostly been the same few active people talking

I'd be actually very much interested in hearing more from you.

that's a fallacy that even very seasoned mafia players make, so i'll call it a null for you. specifically, I'm referring to the idea that if you think Player A is town and Player B votes for Player A then Player B is likely mafia. makes assumptions that aren't true, and day 1 usually consists of town primarily going at each other while mafia eggs it on or hides. but like I said, even people who have played many many games make this mistake so I will call it a null for you.

i'm standing by my position that inutile is sus and i really don't care that it's making people scumread me. i'm not going to back off what i think is my best read right now because it's unpopular or it might get me eliminated. clearly, an inutile elimination is not going to happen right now based on how people are reading her but i don't operate on consensus like that. i truly do not understand why people see inutile as town. as i said before, if there's evidence that she always plays this way (even as town) then my tune might change but to date, nobody has done so unless I somehow missed it. you can think i'm mafia all you want but i would have picked a safer bet than this if that was the case. if you really think that mafia will wagon popular players instead of killing them at night i dont know what to tell you.

the hubbub around ghandi is interesting and i don't know what to make of it right now. people took very strong opinions about the player right off the bat and i can't understand why that would be the case. it would be interesting to revisit those interactions once we see some flips.

as for other reads.

asuka strikes me as town.
furtiveglance also strikes me as town. although his vote against me is wrong, the rationale seems towny.
bbt, on the other hand, strikes me as someone who wanted to piggyback off furtive's reasoning to join a relatively uncontroversial wagon that coincidentally targets the main person campaigning against inutile.
hoppip is neutral, leaning town. the rationale for sussing me wasn't great but is the kind of rationale i could expect from townspeople.
nuclear g - again, not sure what to make of this player since i just don't have a read on them and i'm confused as to why this is the biggest wagon rn. i'm not saying it's wrong, just don't know if it's right
juice, hut, miralax, and mohab all fall into the same category for me, which are low activity lurkers. there is ALWAYS scum in this group on d1. i wouldn't be surprised if juice is scum who is letting us slug it out. only two posts and still maintaining an RVS vote when we're nine pages in.

i wouldn't be terribly surprised if it's inutile/juice/bbt, assuming a standard 10:3 split.

I really like this post and I can’t fully explain why but it seems very tonally genuine

I agree and this post is why afterwards I left the author out of the PoE.

[Greeting]

Sorting.

Greeting

inutile

Ausuka

furtiveglance
BlueBloodedToffee
Frogsterking

DeltaWave

PoE:

Juice
hutmeil
hoppip
Eiralox
Mohab500
Nuclear Gandhi

This read list is odd in that Greeting decides that BBT should be out of the PoE despite BBT only having made two posts of substantive content

I honestly don’t remember why I did this. I played one game with him where I was scum, and felt threatened enough that I killed him (Newbie 2095). I probably saw the same tone as in that game and just put him into the townbin for that. I will have to check to make sure though.

[Greeting]

Mapuche Never Die

is likely town. Glad the slot was replaced, otherwise I would have hammered a likely townie.

[Greeting]

why do you townread MND?

pedit: don't think this game would have been fast paced regardless of the deadline

While making reads I prioritise intent over tone.

MND

’s gamesolving intent is evident and sounds genuine. Even though he’s scumreading me.

Like, the fact that I wanted hammer half-way into Day 1, could be, objectively speaking, taken as a scumtell, but its importance is hugely overrated. It’s being talked about as if it was the most important thing I ever did in this game, when in reality nothing happened, and it wouldn’t have happened anyway while the slot was being replaced.

Another valid point he made was about me voting

Nuclear Gandhi

even though I haven’t talked much about him. That’s also true. But the full truth is that

Gandhi

has done nothing yet when the vote was cast and when he started contributing and analysing, I focused my mind off him. Nonetheless, I did not say it and so the confusion is probably genuine.

[Greeting]

hey Greeting. You do realize that part of scums jobs is to make "good points" and try to come off as townie? They are going to poke holes and cast doubt on town b/c that like their job. I personally don't think that your reason to town read him is very good. What do you think about my accusation that he's active lurking?

It does have some merit, but I don't think you took into account the fact that he replaced in. I have seen this type of catching up in games before, that is quoting loads of posts to find anything notable and comment on it, and in my experience that is NAI. I would much rather if he made up to 5 long summary posts with conclusions though.

[Greeting]

I honestly don’t remember why I did this. I played one game with him where I was scum, and felt threatened enough that I killed him (Newbie 2095). I probably saw the same tone as in that game and just put him into the townbin for that. I will have to check to make sure though.

I remember that game. BBT came in strong and scum killed him for that (as you said).

But I also remembered how you played scum in that game is similar to how you are playing now. You we're posting as needed ( I guess so as not to get prodded ) and flying under the radar and acting helpful to newbies which of course makes you look townie to them.

Which newbie did I help this game? I am scumreading

hoppip

, who sounds like a newbie, because this isn't the Newbie queue.

How am I flying under the radar? I have like 3-4 people voting me now.

This post makes zero sense actually and says nothing about how "

BBT

came strong" in your opinion. So you agree with my read and you think I'm likely scum?

[Greeting]

Anyway, I'm trying to ask where his gamesolving intent is evident? I haven't gotten much of a read out of MND so far.

Posts like 561, 585, 599, 607, 703, 704 - all have the intention of solving the game imo.

[Greeting]

I 100% agree with the

hutmeil

wagon though, he's been in my PoE and never really left it. I remember a significantly better performance from him in Newbie 2095.

VOTE: hutmeil

[Greeting]

Regardless of my insecurities, I'm opposing Hutmeil's vote. Greeting is more palatable.

VOTE: Greeting

You never explained your progression from leaving me out of the PoE (last seen 363) to voting me 771.

[Greeting]

Sorting.

Greeting

inutile

Ausuka

furtiveglance
BlueBloodedToffee
Frogsterking

DeltaWave

PoE:

Juice
hutmeil
hoppip
Eiralox
Mohab500
Nuclear Gandhi

I think this readslist is just the group consensus as it was at the time. As in the average of everyone's thoughts. It makes me think you just looked at post count instead of thinking about the game.

Firstly, I don't think there was a group consensus read in this game ever. Even inutile got scumread before she replaced out.

But, let's say that there was a group consensus on townreads. Why is the fact that I support it scum indicative? If I am scum, I don't want a group consensus of townreads, because I will never be able to miseliminate all of them.

[Greeting]

I'm saying you supporting the group consensus is scum indicative because you don't need to engage with making up your own reads.

I haven't spoken about all of my townreads, sure. But I explained most of them. I would say that the posts listed below are evidence against me making up reads by copying consensus townreads. Plus, I am now townreading

Mapuche Never Die

who is the leading wagon and so far from being a consensus townread.

Frogsterking

(145)

Nero Cain

(inutile) (152)

Ausuka

(152)

furtiveglance

(178)

DeltaWave

- tier below townreads, but out of the PoE (715)

Mapuche Never Die

(721, 781)

[Greeting]

Anyways, this is my Day 1 final PoE.

hutmeil
hoppip
Eiralox
Mohab500

Left out

Mapuche Never Die

and

Nuclear Gandhi

because both of them produced sufficient amounts of good content.

I am happy to eliminate anyone out of these four really and

hutmeil

is a good candidate. I don't think I really need to expand on the

hutmeil

case as everything has been said. His only case was Juice, and when he got replaced, he didn't build a second one.

@

Nero Cain

: if anyone is actively lurking this game, especially since Juice's replace-out, I would say it's

hutmeil

.

[Greeting]

VOTE: hutmeil

I think this is E-2.

[Greeting]

I am staying on

hutmeil

. Alternatively, I can vote out someone else from my PoE. But I won’t be going after the rest, at least not today.

I am not sure what is so scummy that I’ve done in this game. But the composition of my wagon isn’t really that great either so probably not much. I’m still townreading

furtiveglance

, but less so, because the level of certainty with which he’s pushing my wagon over one tell is concerning, especially that the push seems to be coordinated with

Eiralox

.

[Greeting]

Oh, and welcome,

Crescent

.

[Greeting]

I need to go now but get off hutmeil and get on Greeting.

cos if hutmeil isn't scum and greeting is the unspoken vibe i've gotten from a few players(won't mention who yet) is a dire need to draw attention away from greeting.

no way scum is just these two and hut and they are trying to hard push a Greeting wagon, right?

Eiralox

’s whole presence in the game feels disruptive. Sometimes it seems like the guy is just itching to start a nonsensical argument and other times he posts a ridiculously wrong hot take. This is my general feeling about this slot. I am fundamentally unopposed to eliminating him like, anytime.

And yeah, pushing my wagon because of one read at the end of Day 1 seems like a poor choice by

furtiveglance

. Kinda like he’s trying to exploit the momentum where he got everybody’s attention and there is time pressure to make a push on my slot in spite having a rather weak case.

[Greeting]

I will not vote out

Nero Cain

now. As a matter of fact, I am unlikely to vote out

Nero Cain

at any point of the game. Inutile was my strongest townread and the slot’s successor hasn’t done anything to tarnish it, so the read is likely correct.

[Greeting]

I am not sure what is so scummy that I’ve done in this game.

For me it was mainly that you spent most of early game talking about your town reads and thats like really easy to do as scum. Wasn't really till 197 that you started talking about your POE.

I had felt like your RVS on Gandhi and then leaving your vote there for "pressure" was scummy.

and Ausuka is town, but my gut tells me that something's not right here.

I assumed this line was about Ausuka, was it? if not who was it about? if so what was "not right"?

Was worried that your POE was a shit ton of mislimable town and you as scum could just use POE ad nauseam to justify your votes.

I'm down with the whole "hut isn't playing to his town meta/he's not being proactive." but I don't really think you've been either. Hut is p good flip today and we can just go from there tomorrow.

I do townhunting rather than scumhunting quite often in games. Slots that can’t be townbinned in any way get in the PoE by default. It’s a matter of playstyle. And, I would say that it’s completely valid to want to eliminate the PoE and push it, if in my opinion it leads to solving the game.

197 was about

DeltaWave

. I didn’t like the way he posted, but after I questioned him, I realised that it’s probably NAI and left him out of the PoE.

And also, it was kinda a long time ago?

Oh and I’m not really sure what my town meta is, I have a lot of towngames and played differently in many of them.

[Greeting]

I do townhunting rather than scumhunting quite often in games.

i see claims of townhunting come from scum way more than I do from town.

And also, it was kinda a long time ago?

That's not how cancel culture works! There's no statute of limitations on the internet.

Oh and I’m not really sure what my town meta is, I have a lot of towngames and played differently in many of them.

wasn't saying anything about your meta just that you aren't being all that proactive similar to hutmei.

I’ve townhunted as town several times. It’s actually really common from me. Check my past games if you want a meta read.

I couldn’t have been proactive when I was in V/LA for several days. Otherwise, my prevailing feeling is that I’ve contributed my share to this game.

[Greeting]

Actually: hutmeil’s reaction to the claim was towny, Greeting has made himself townier in the last several pages

VOTE: BBT
I propose a counterwagon.

To be fair, my townread of that slot was probably rushed. I haven’t seen him post much in the last days like, at all. And I don’t remember any of his posts or reads without looking them up. That’s all bad signs to be fair. I will be back before deadline to analyse this deeper.

[Greeting]

I do see Furitive's argument here. #853 Nero insinuates he's scum with Hutmeil trying to protect him, and #868 he insinuates Furitive is scum acting under the knowledge that Hutmeil is town.

Regardless though, not really interested in a vote there today. Nero kinda just feels like he spouts everything he's thinking when he thinks it. It has better potential to be coming from a town mentality than many others.

Hut dropped a long post in #850, but didn't actually stay around. The post itself was alright, but the lack of follow up is a big concern. It feels like he just dropped everything into a single post and hoped it would be enough.

BBT has still done absolutely nothing since Juice left the game, and I'm not opposed to voting there. 2273 BBT was so much more aggressive than this it's staggering. Doesn't feel like the same player at all.

He as well as Hoppip have no posts in over 24 hours. I kinda like Hoppip's interaction with Eiralox, but I would really like to see updated reads and reactions here.


Anyways, if either Hoppip or Greeting try to idle out the day, I say kill them with fire. I don't want this day ending without some answers from the both of them. I don't like a Nero vote though.

Crescent

, is there a single question in this game I haven’t answered?

I mean,

Eiralox

might have asked some as I’ve seen them longposting about their supposed scumread of me but admittedly I’ve just been ignoring their posts.

[Greeting]

Why was BBT on your townlist to begin with, and what has he done to stay there?

What is your case on Eiralox? They're in your POE in 796... But you essentially said nothing about them at all until #873, and all you said was "they feel disruptive". The only interaction you even have with them is them immediately questioning your intent to hammer Juice. I don't feel like you've made a valid point to justify a vote here.
These were two things I felt you still needed to answer for. I definitely still want an explanation of why you had BBT as solidly town for so long given how little he's actually done.

I spoke of

BBT

in 936. That was probably the reason, though now I kinda agree that the read was rushed and doesn't look great. I've just re-looked into his ISO and the tone kinda feels genuine so I can see why I felt like townbinning them at that moment.

And no, I am not casing

Eiralox

today.

[Greeting]

This game solve is hutmeil/Gandhi/furtiveglance right?

In case I am voted out today, I support this gamesolve.

Also, I am being heavily suspected for townhunting and voting players from my ISO, but it occurs to me that a lot of others are doing the exact same thing (

Ausuka

,

furtiveglance

,

MND

). Like, there's no casing here, just "*shrug* I am okay with this case". So yeah, kinda hypocritical of them to be fair.

[Greeting]

hutmeil
hoppip
Eiralox
Crescent

Is still my Day 1 PoE, and I believe there are scum amongst these four. My vote will remain on

hutmeil

.

PEdit: Was I hammered?

[Greeting]

Anyway, if I was hammered then town just shot itself in the foot. I hope that the least you guys can do is analyse the composition of my wagon tomorrow, because I was the town counterwagon to scummy

hutmeil

.

[Greeting]

Oh, I didn't get hammered. I really thought I did, and was just kinda ready to forget about this game.

Fine, I'll claim if you guys really want me to. I'm a gated Town Cop who can only uncover Mafia Goons (full role is

Town Disloyal Simple Cop

).

It's a shame I probably won't even get to use the role now. I am, however, still planning on checking someone from my PoE Night 1. My current thoughts are to check out Mohab/

Crescent

's slot.

[Greeting]

I'd much rather be just a Town Cop, but yeah, for some reason that's hard to come by in the Normal queue.

I consider myself to be a rather intelligent person, but I'm not smart enough to make such a sophisticated fake claim, honestly. I would need to have someone from my team invent it for me (10% effort) and then successfully convince me to use it (90% effort), which overall makes it highly improbable.

I'm annoyed that I was forced to claim over absolute bs on Day 1, because the only way for my role to be potentially useful would be me checking out at least like 3 scummy people and hoping I uncover an actual Goon.

[Greeting]

Anyway, question time is over, because I think the questions being asked are bullshit and my cooperation changes absolutely nothing. If you don't believe my claim, just hammer me so I can bitch about this game in the Dead Thread.

[Greeting]

Ugh, I got a guilty on

Crescent

, was PUMPED to rush here and announce it and she’s dead, oh well. One down, rest to go.

[Greeting]

So the push on me was scum-driven. Doesn’t always need to be the case, but looks like this time it was.

VOTE: Eiralox

[Greeting]

Ugh, I got a guilty on

Crescent

, was PUMPED to rush here and announce it and she’s dead, oh well. One down, rest to go.

I was not expecting Crescent to be vigged at all
Gun to head, who do you think Crescent is partnered with?

Eiralox

and someone whom I wrongly townread. Possibly

BBT

, but I don’t know.

[Greeting]

Actually, it could very well be

hoppip

and not someone from outside the PoE. Him and

Eiralox

are still left from the PoE.

I’ll look into Mohab/

Crescent

’s ISO later.

[Greeting]

Why is

Ausuka

scummy, @

Nero

?

[Greeting]

Another thing - I don't like how you gloss over Crescent's push on Greeting here.

Crescent

's predecessor, Mohab500, was actually the first to push my wagon in this game.

I have to ask, why is there a wagon on Juice but not a wagon on me? this game makes no sense. I just looked at their posts and I am barely ahead of them in useful activity if at all.

This makes me feel weird about Greeting's intent to hammer or whatever bullshit: yes they didn't give a reason for you to townread them but neither did I or I'd reckon several people in here basically have given no reason to be town read so I am extremely confused what's going on. It seems like somebody is just trying to jump on a random wagon to me.

VOTE: Greeting

After this post,

Eiralox

eagerly followed in 482.

I feel like given the fact that

Crescent

flipped red, this, and my very unlikely to fake claim, are town clearing me and give

Eiralox

a really bad look.

[Greeting]

And @

Eiralox

, I would be acting the same way I do regardless of your alignment. There are two reasons why I'm pretty much choosing to not interact with your posts.

First reason is fully on me and boils down to my preferences.

lol call me out? throw me in a lurk bin u mean? pull on another one. fishing for a reason 2 vote u? like 3rd or fourth time u said that? MUST I repeat myself? Must I really? Must I really take the energy to type that i told you im voting gandhi and that's not apt to change soon? You are raising the value of your own impact on me far too much, it is a non-factor in my etimation: your post was scummy, i called out the scummy portions. then YOU went on the uber defensive 'don't look at me' mode after I called u out for going for LHF. so don't try and wriggle falsities into this discourse.

Im not a fisher but a hunter. and you dodgy af. IF I really wanted to vote you above gandhi ida fekking did it. And if I were scum I would be far more subtle in my approach. So yeah, my point: Delta goes for LHF. Delta: no! False! eira defensive cos I put them in a lurk bin! rinse and repeat. hopefully not ad-infinitum. you are being scummy here, and your pivot point is: "Buuuut I put you in lurk bin so anything u say against me is false cos u perked up at me never saw me etcetera etcetera" which is such an absurd approach to my approach that, while it humored me, it's not something i'm going to humor.


but........ time for me to consume biomatter and view pixel films. i'll go through your ISO tomorrow with a fine comb. I'll see if the vibes that your latest actions have conveyed are wholly consistent with your past iterations.

This posting style is giving me a literal headache. You have the full right to write your posts like this, but forgive me if trying to decipher them (English is not my native language) is hard for me and solving the game around your posts feels like the easier and more comfortable way to go.

Second reason, albeit less important, is on you.

My feeling is that you're completely unnecessarily escalating arguments with posts, instead of trying to build a better understanding with other players. Examples of posts like this are: 267, 274, 313, 473, 645, 928, 1100 etc. etc.

I don't enjoy reading this at all. For the record, I did not enjoy reading this even before you started scumreading me. This playstyle is actually part of why I keep you in my PoE - purposefully antagonising others could be a valid strategy for scum!

Eiralox

as this approach is counterproductive to solving the game.

[Greeting]

Greeting can you post a reads list?

I will do this on Day 3 after I see

Eiralox

's flip. That is, if I am still alive on Day 3.

[Greeting]

Actually, I was wondering why I wasn't killed tonight and

furtiveglance

was. My guess is that there are no more Mafia Goons in this game and so my role isn't a threat to the mafia anymore. I will still continue checking people in case I am wrong though. I'm planning on targeting

hoppip

on Night 2.

Still though, it's kinda weird that they would sacrifice

Crescent

like this. I made it clear that I would be likely targeting her tonight (1062). If she hadn't been vigged, I would have announced my guilty and she would be gone on Day 2 anyway.

[Greeting]

i was in my last year of law school when i joined and now i'm a senior trial attorney lol

Happy scumday, and congratulations. Being a trial attorney is great if you like arguing and, like, standing your ground though.

I graduated Law myself, but I'm planning on a career switch as I'm very susceptible to work-related stress and pressure which is abundant in the legal sector unfortunately.

[Greeting]

I don't think I am moving my vote elsewhere today. I mean, it's not impossible, but there isn't a lim I would want more than

Eiralox

.

[Greeting]

I don't think I am moving my vote elsewhere today. I mean, it's not impossible, but there isn't a lim I would want more than

Eiralox

.

I feel like you aren't making any attempts to be flexible and work with your team.

Eiralox

was a leading wagon until a few posts before yours. If that's not good town teamwork on eliminating a shady slot, I don't know what is.

Maybe you should reconsider why you're not on that wagon. The case on

Eiralox

is out there with nothing more to add.

[Greeting]

Greeting, is Eira your one and only scum read?

What do you think about Hoppip?

I have kept

hoppip

in the PoE all game and he's still in it alongside

Eiralox

. I am generally okay with eliminating him today, and if that doesn't happen, I am checking him on Night 2.

[Greeting]

I don't think I am moving my vote elsewhere today. I mean, it's not impossible, but there isn't a lim I would want more than

Eiralox

.

I feel like you aren't making any attempts to be flexible and work with your team.

Eiralox

was a leading wagon until a few posts before yours. If that's not good town teamwork on eliminating a shady slot, I don't know what is.

Maybe you should reconsider why you're not on that wagon. The case on

Eiralox

is out there with nothing more to add.

Your case on Eiralox is horrendous vote Ausuka

Okay, but like, I asked

Nero

why

Ausuka

is scum a few hundred posts ago and I didn't get an answer from him nor from you nor from anyone else. So virtually nothing and no one prompted me to reevaluate that read.

I feel like you aren't making any attempts to be flexible and work with your team.

[Greeting]

He has been hard townreading me the whole game

He instantly does a massive 180, insists I'm scum , as soon as it looks like I could viably be eliminated

Can't explain why except for stuff like "her progression on Gandhi is nonexistent" which, may I remind you, that's a slot which has done literally jackshit all game frankly

Being inconsistent is extremely overrated as a scumtell actually. I used to think that players who act erratic are scummy, but some players like to sort of push buttons and see which one works and which one doesn't. They form their reads like that.

[Greeting]

Nero seems very stuck in a tunnel.

Eiralox (3):

Mapuche Never Die

, Greeting, Nero Cain

!!!

[Greeting]

Hoppip

is being replaced. As the game is stagnant, and we are slowly approaching the deadline, I suggest that we put someone at E-1 and get them to claim.

[Greeting]

VOTE: Greeting

I want to test the claim.

Is voting to eliminate an uncc'd PR wise?

[Greeting]

VOTE: Greeting

I want to test the claim.

Is voting to eliminate an uncc'd PR wise?

there are several things i dislike about this reply

Like what?

[Greeting]

I think limming Greeting is a bad idea

Not because he's an unccd PR, that probably makes him more likely to be scum in itself, but he feels like town and I think what he claimed specifically is towny

Some people seem to have an aversion to the fact that eliminating an uncc'd PR is usually a bad idea. Especially when the game is in its early stages. I can understand that my team can get paranoid if I'm still alive on like Day 4/Day 5 and would want to eliminate me then. But eliminating me now is just... literally anti-town behavior, when I can potentially still get a red check on someone.

I claimed only because I was under strong pressure on Day 1 and was basically forced to do so. I said I would check someone who would flip red the following Night, and that someone's predecessor basically started and led my wagon. Had

Crescent

not died, I would have gotten a red check on her and we would be eliminating her now.

Plus, my claim is all fancy shmancy.

And some players still think this is all a lucky coincidence and I faked the red check? Not going to entertain this idea any further.

[Greeting]

Hey Greeting why didn't you die last night

That's a great question, why don't you ask

Eiralox

?

[Greeting]

Hey Greeting why didn't you die last night

That's a great question, why don't you ask

Eiralox

?

maybe ur immortal

It doesn't say so in my PM. Fun idea though, Bulletproof Cop. Wonder how many strong PRs the mafia would need to have for a game with a Bulletproof Cop to be balanced.

[Greeting]

VOTE: Greeting

I want to test the claim.

Is voting to eliminate an uncc'd PR wise?

there are several things i dislike about this reply

Like what?

alright. where do i start, because there's a lot.

1. the overall self-preservation tone of this post
2. your argument relies solely on the fact that you haven't been counter-claimed instead of anything of any real substance
3. feels like there's potentially some fishing for a counter-claim
4. your post 1068 - "I consider myself to be a rather intelligent person, but I'm not smart enough to make such a sophisticated fake claim, honestly. I would need to have someone from my team invent it for me (10% effort) and then successfully convince me to use it (90% effort), which overall makes it highly improbable." this lengthy explanation as to how you could never ever come up with such an elaborate fakeclaim raises my eyebrows. you echoed the same sentiment in 1246, where you say that you are "town cleared" because of your "very unlikely to fake claim."
5. you refused to provide a reads list in 1258 and said you would if you survive to d3. again, more self-preservation stuff that doesn't actually assist scumhunting
6. your claim hasn't actually confirmed anything because crescent died at night.
7. your post 1260 - "My guess is that there are no more Mafia Goons in this game and so my role isn't a threat to the mafia anymore." it feels like you're setting yourself up to get no-reads later on. the type of cop you claimed would get "no result" on a townie or a mafia PR, so you could conceivably report "no result" every night without repercussions.
8. if your current operating theory is that your power is not a threat to mafia, the "you can't lim me because nobody counter-claimed me" argument becomes way weaker.
9. you seem to assume that a day lim is the only way to lim you, since apparently you value getting through the day over actually providing scumreads (see point 5, and well a whole bunch of other points too.)

what it boils down to is that you've largely been doing self-preservation stuff and resting on the "no counterclaim" argument as if that's open and shut, which it really isn't

i feel like if you really were a cop you'd be doing the best you can to participate as much as you can, since you are an obvious NK target. this is in contrast to point 5 above, where you said you'd only provide a list of reads if you're alive in d3.

p-edit: Im fine with BBT today

1. Obviously, I'd rather not die when I have a PR, and, even worse, not die by being voted out by my own team.
2. That is, in my opinion, enough.
3. No, there isn't.
4. It's true, and if you don't believe that, that's on you.
5. Fair, but that has nothing to do with the post in question (1466).
6. That's true, but it's not my fault, and I could not have seen

Crescent

getting rigged regardless of whether I'm town or mafia.
7. That's your choice of interpretation of this post.
8. It's not really an assumption, I really don't know why I wasn't killed off tonight, and this is one possible explanation.
9. No... I don't?

[Greeting]

Greeting, were you calling MND scum in 1437?

I wasn't calling him scum, but that post raised an eyebrow for me.

[Greeting]

And yes, I agree that I haven't been doing much for most of today.

Two reasons for that:

- I have already decided on today's elimination choice, elaborated on it and feel like the rest of the day is just wasted time really;
- I kinda lost motivation for this game when I was forced to claim, because now I feel like there's no mystery surrounding my slot and my fate is sealed.

[Greeting]

so are you going to provide reads or are you just gonna coast

I've already answered this.

[Greeting]

NK 15

has done absolutely nothing in this game whatsoever and his predecessor was pretty bad too. Plus, deadline is nearing.

VOTE: Not Known 15

This is E-1.

[Greeting]

NK15 is quite probably the worst player to replace a completely inactive slot
It just replaces an inactive lim bait with an inactive limbait

Yeah, I knew you were an alt. A new player wouldn’t know this.

[Greeting]

I just can’t wait for this day to be over, this day feels like it has been unnecessarily going on for ages.

[Greeting]

Let greeting live for now. Anything else is a mechanical error.
Ausuka is town. Still catching up.

VOTE: Greeting

I want to test the claim.

VOTE: Frogsterking

Is this really all you have to say?

[Greeting]

Yay we won. I didn’t do very badly, but definitely could have done better.

I feel bad for Delta, she really couldn’t salvage her team at the end. When NK 15 was gone chances of her winning have really slimmed down.

[Greeting]

Gandhi who did you try to target??

The counter wagon, also the parson I had my vote on, Greeting.

I don't understand, who or what changed my Night1 target?
gg
sorry for being me
If it helps, I struggle with game commitments every time

Oops, I know what happened

When you asked about the frequency of replacements I misunderstood that you wanted to shoot Crescent
MY BAD
from now on when I mod I'm gonna ask

no side comments

so I don't make presumptions about intended targets based on comments made.

…oh my.

[Greeting]

That is a really unfortunate situation. I’m sorry for the scumteam.

[Greeting]

And, Nuclear Gandhi, it’s usually a bad idea to shoot an uncounterclaimed town PR the night after the claim, as there is a possibility of them proving their role. If your action did go through as intended, town would have been in a far worse position.

It would be okay to shoot me later in the game, if for some reason I was still alive.

[Greeting]

Thank you for hosting Gamma.