Mini 2292: Anything uPick - Game Over!

[Wavelength]

Me, on my way to find some bad guys



VOTE: Alisae

[Wavelength]

I'm a universal miller.
VOTE: Alisae

By universal do you mean that you would come up looking bad regardless of the type of invest? So, a tracker always sees you going to the night kill?

[Wavelength]

I wonder if LadyL can make the mod regret giving her this power

[Wavelength]

Do you know why your name is blue in the votecount?

+1

@Ali

[Wavelength]

Do you know why your name is blue in the votecount?

Well I believe that this was already pretty obvious in the first few pages. This post could be filler.

VOTE: Pink

...............

The way I went and opened up a the lyrics of the actual song and did a side by side to see what the differences were in there, but then still did not put it together with the vote count has me feeling ashamed.

[Wavelength]

I'm a universal miller.
VOTE: Alisae

By universal do you mean that you would come up looking bad regardless of the type of invest? So, a tracker always sees you going to the night kill?

Am thinking on this more, and I do want to know the wording on "universal"

Was it said as "all investigative roles?"

[Wavelength]

I'm a universal miller.
VOTE: Alisae

By universal do you mean that you would come up looking bad regardless of the type of invest? So, a tracker always sees you going to the night kill?

Yes.

This does not answer the follow up question. Was it "all investigative roles" or was it like, a list of roles that you would show up negatively for?

[Wavelength]

VOTE: Amici Curiae

[Wavelength]

Annoyed that Ircher just called me nosy instead of answering my question.

I somewhat doubt LadyL pulls out a double voter here as scum, when she could just sit on it.

I liked the meta that PB said that they did on the Sportsman

[Wavelength]

Just to get some thoughts out before we lock.

[Wavelength]

Do you think scum is more likely to try to dumbtell that though?

Why not?

Because lately in games I've played, town has been more likely to miss things like that. I'm not saying it's a towntell, but it's something I've noticed that has come from town more than scum (who I think tend to try to be more careful).

If it makes you feel better, yesterday I did a side by side of the lyrics, concluded the refrain must have done something... and only

after

that I realized that the name in the VC was blue, so critical spot check fail there

~b

This, on the other hand, looks like an attempt to look townie by relating. If Amici is scum, Pink is probably town.

Why does this not have a commentary on me also having a post similar to this?

[Wavelength]

Do you know why your name is blue in the votecount?

Well I believe that this was already pretty obvious in the first few pages. This post could be filler.

VOTE: Pink

...............

The way I went and opened up a the lyrics of the actual song and did a side by side to see what the differences were in there, but then still did not put it together with the vote count has me feeling ashamed.

[Wavelength]

Wait. That Amici post was in response to my post

[Wavelength]

Why are you connecting Amici's alignment from that post to Pink's alignment, instead of connecting it to me?

[Wavelength]

I am trying to figure out why you seem to be treating my posts differently then you were treating Amici's

[Wavelength]

You all come out to see that no one has died last night...

However, Kokichi Oma has mysteriously disappeared!

Do we think that these two things combine to mean that Kokichi is coming back?

The explicit "no one has died last night" feels different then "you don't get to see this flip"

[Wavelength]

VOTE: Wavelength

y

Because they were being nosy earlier...

What changed between earlier when you said that you did not know if being nosy was scum indicative?

[Wavelength]

VOTE: Marashu

[Wavelength]

Where u @ w/ reads bud

Ircher and Marashu are the two at the bottom of my reads atm, but I am not sure if the Ircher stuff if just annoying me that he seems to be purposefully difficult.

I really did not like my interactions with Marashu at the end of day 1

[Wavelength]

Ok, made a quick skim on your past games and realized you actually start games like this. I thought both Flea and your votes were RVS and that you were trying to pick a fight, so the "fake reads" looked like bait from my point of view. I was calling you out for baiting me, and that felt, from my point of view, that I started pushing you and you retaliated.

I get where you're coming from now, can't agree with you with the "buddying" LLD theory when I wast just showing humanity which is what I usually do? Reading this made me think "this guy don't know shit about me and it shows", but then again, I now know who you are and know you know me, so I don't know what to take out of this whole interaction.

This struck me as a comment that comes from legitimately having done at least a little bit of meta on Stephen to spot check his approach to his slot, and realizing that what he was originally scum reading was actually NAI.

I leaned town for it, because backing down from the scum read on Stephen there did not seem a goal that he would really have as scum, when he could just stick to the scum read. So I read it as a genuine re-eval.

[Wavelength]

Marashu isn't great, I can agree that it could be argued that they just picked out a post and tried to spun something as a wolf post without actually trying to garner a read. I think if PB flipped wolf I would be pretty interested in flipping it but on another hand he didn't seem like he expected a hammer

My read of the interaction was Marashu looking for a reason to call Amici scum/join the wagon. But then was surprised to see it hammered before he got there

[Wavelength]

I think his self-awareness on if he overreacted or not is townie because from what I read it seemed like he was overreacting but if he was told he wasn't overreacting maybe that gives him an avenue to keep the read open.
Makes me also think I missed an opportunity to try to cash in on this and really try to sort him using that :/

I am struggling to parse exactly what point you are making here >.<

I was talking about him doing a meta check on Stephen to see his approach in other games vs this game. I am not sure I am following what you mean by him being self-aware on if he was over reacting or not. (Or why that would make him town?)

Can you reword this post for me lol?

[Wavelength]

I think his self-awareness on if he overreacted or not is townie because from what I read it seemed like he was overreacting but if he was told he wasn't overreacting maybe that gives him an avenue to keep the read open.
Makes me also think I missed an opportunity to try to cash in on this and really try to sort him using that :/

I am struggling to parse exactly what point you are making here >.<

I was talking about him doing a meta check on Stephen to see his approach in other games vs this game. I am not sure I am following what you mean by him being self-aware on if he was over reacting or not. (Or why that would make him town?)

Can you reword this post for me lol?

we're talking about different things I'm talking about this post

why would you say yes right now but no if you overreacted and instigated the whole thing

Because his read seems fake to me, like there was a higher standard towards my play instead of the rest of the playerlist; the gamestate was full of banter posts but somehow I'm the one who was pocketing LLD and not playing seriously. Felt like bait.

If I overreacted then I'm giving him too much atributions that are just not true (he's not actually trying to bait me or supress me, he just has a legitimate read on me, among other things)

Why do you think that him potentially leaving an avenue open to keep the read open is townie? I feel like looking at the point you made, it feels like it should lean you the other way?

[Wavelength]

Lady Lambdadelta - Want to TR, I think she knows that there's gonna be a bunch of eyes on what she does next so I'm really interested to see what kind of magik tricks she has in store for us.
Here There Be Dragons - Town
Ircher - Want to TR, play is super underwhelming though
PenguinPower - I want to say their engagements so far seem townie? I don't know what wolf!PP looks like here, last time I played with wolf!PP they flaked and I want to say that it feels like it's easier for PP to engage with the thread so town?
kuribo - Need more
Stephen A Smith - Town
Flea The Magician - gun to head town, I feel like them just saying that their vote is rvs while wagons are developing is just more likely to come from town? they can be a wolf tho there's not much to really go off of here but I want to say they're a villager so far.
Marashu - wolf
Wavelength - Want to TR
Pink Ball - I can see arguments for the player being both alignments tbh :/

I would say town lean: LadyL, Stephen, PinkB, You

Nullish: Dragons, PP, Kuribo, Flea

Lean scum: Ircher, Marashu

Which feels like we are largely in the same ball park?

Why do you have the Dragons as Town?

[Wavelength]

So like that's obviously one interpretation but his self-awareness on the situation looks like he's actively giving thought about it. I feel like a wolf in that spot would just keep tunneling?

Ah.

That was part of my thoughts about the way he handled doing a meta check on him, was that he could have just stayed scum reading him if scum.

[Wavelength]

They are not in the dead players either

[Wavelength]

@Ircher

Gonna be nosy again.

You said you are a "Universal" Miller. We have a flipped Flavor Cop.

How would a Universal Miller interact with a Flavor Cop Invest?

[Wavelength]

I find it hard to find Kokichi to be more threatening than the Cephrir hydra or me tbh :/
or even LLD but there's a lot of ambiguity with LLD right now so it's pretty easy to get away with leaving them alive right now. I would like more details on how their doublevote works, like if that's something they can do again or not.
I think going for play I listed like hiding it until in hammer range then clawing would probably make her look pretty suspect so if she's a wolf I imagine she'll just use it to help her push something.

If I had a double vote as scum, I feel like I never reveal it until the Elo (or the Day before dependent on game state), when you can get a surprise win from it.

Actually revealing yourself to be a double voter kind of stops you from being able to end game, because taking such a slot to Elo is kinda bad, right? You kind of have to kill the double voted at Elo-1.

Using it to push through a day 1 elim feels like actively bad scum strategy

[Wavelength]

I find it hard to find Kokichi to be more threatening than the Cephrir hydra or me tbh :/
or even LLD but there's a lot of ambiguity with LLD right now so it's pretty easy to get away with leaving them alive right now. I would like more details on how their doublevote works, like if that's something they can do again or not.
I think going for play I listed like hiding it until in hammer range then clawing would probably make her look pretty suspect so if she's a wolf I imagine she'll just use it to help her push something.

If I had a double vote as scum, I feel like I never reveal it until the Elo (or the Day before dependent on game state), when you can get a surprise win from it.

Actually revealing yourself to be a double voter kind of stops you from being able to end game, because taking such a slot to Elo is kinda bad, right? You kind of have to kill the double voted at Elo-1.

Using it to push through a day 1 elim feels like actively bad scum strategy

What if it doesn't work in elo

C

I still think revealing it forces the town to kill you at Elo-1 in case you are lying. So doing so stops you from being a viable endgame scum.

[Wavelength]

Ceph called me town super early

and their reasoning for it was I think something I believe could come from him as town

I went back and looked at Dragons calling you town, and I am not really sure what part of that makes the Dragons more likely to be town.

I guess it does not really matter at the moment, since I am not really interested in a Dragons push currently, so I guess this is just a vague "you didn't sell me on that read" to float your way.

[Wavelength]

And is there a reason we're assuming someone was rolestopped rather than the disappearance being a janitor kill?

Yeah... those are unrelated.

Marashu looks like they were acsetic / rolestopped, because Ali and Dragons claim to have both targeted Marashu, and their actions failed.

Re:my comment on the no flip, I was thinking that maybe it was not a Janitor because the mod's post explicitly said "no one died" which feels weird if someone simply died and was janitored. Also, the fact that they are not listed as dead in the OP. If it was the night kill, I can see it being some kind of delayed flip though. Like flavor wise, they "kidnap" their target N1, and they "die" at the end of Day 2. So I am not really sold on it definitely not being the night kill? But atp, I think we just have to wait and see if anything happens.

[Wavelength]

I’ll look into my past games but I really don’t remember anything

Oh...

I have never played with PB, and when I saw PB's hammer with the Miltank, I kind of assumed that he was like Not_Mafia or Enchant, and quick hammered all the time.

But knowing that he does not normally quickhammer, does make his hammer look worse.

[Wavelength]

Not claiming ascetic, if that's what you're asking. Not sure why people's actions targeting me failed. Whatever it is, it's not me.

I am trying to think of a world where you are targeted with a rolestop if you are town, and struggling to come up with one.

Like, a town rolestop is should be used like a doctor, and I don't think that it makes sense for a doctor to target you. And I am not sure why a scum rolestop would be on you if you are town either.

[Wavelength]

I just stared at a list of roles on Mafia scum, and I guess I can see a couple roles that *could* make sense as having used you as a target.

Not gonna list them all, but I think that if there is a town bus driver that targeted you, they should probably out, since that would mean their other target is likely an unclaimed ascetic.

The others that I saw would either should not claim even if they targeted you, or would be the result of a scum action, so doesn't matter.

[Wavelength]

I think that if there is a town bus driver that targeted you, they should probably out, since that would mean their other target is likely an unclaimed ascetic.

Unless this happens, I am still happy with my vote.

[Wavelength]

Zzz... Let me ask again: what is the purpose of this question specifically? The flavor cop is dead now. Do you expect there to be a second one? I don't.

But if you must know, I investigate as "mafia-aligned" to cop-type roles and as visiting all players who died to tracking investigatives. So for a flavor cop, I'd presumably investigate as my flavor. Flavor is likely null anyway; I'm sure SirCakez randomized alignments before developing roles.

I am finding it really hard to believe that you are actually thinking critically about my motivations or what those motivations could mean to my alignment.

You claimed "Universal miller" and I questioned how that could would interact with non-traditional investigative role in a role madness game. And wanted you to nail yourself down to a definitive answer so that if a non-traditional investigative role targeted you at some point this game, your answer could not just be: what ever answer helps you in that situation.

Our only flip so far, had not one, but

two

different non-traditional investigative roles, and

you still think

that me still wanting to get you to commit to how you interact with non traditional investigative roles is pointless, and that I should be focusing my time on "more important" things?

It is hard to believe that you are an actual town miller, who claimed it as "universal miller," and after the Amici flip, just... don't see that your claim, as presented, did not actually answer how it would interact with this invest:

Once at night, you may visit another player and you will learn their flavor.

Or this invest:

SirCakez post_id=13678132 time=1677893049 user_id=26092]
Once at night, you may visit another player and you will be told if they are wicked or not.

[Wavelength]

I was gonna call ircher scum but then his post improved so I won't... Yet

Do it.

[Wavelength]

Anyway {Ircher, Wave, Dragons, Kokichi, Stephan} are all town especially on Marashu flip. If there's someone I'm wrong on here I think it's likely Ircher but so far I really don't think so.

Please tell me why Ircher is in this category.

I agree that you and Dragons because it took both of you outing a failed action on Marashu to stop this from being either of the other being roleblocked. I am on board with Stephen, and I think that Kokichi will be answered with time regardless, so sure.

[Wavelength]

Please tell me why Ircher is in this category.

responding to me with "why are you asking me this?" I feel like does not come from a wolf when it happens but I mean like ya i can be wrong here. Probably more wrong than me on PP and Flea tbh and those slots haven't really done much of anything.

I just really struggle to read his interactions with me and up to his most recent post, and see where he is actually asking:

Would a townie be asking me these questions, why would a townie care, would scum be asking me these questions, why would scum care?

And instead he is just assigning a scum read to me for being a thorn in his side.

[Wavelength]

I say I'm not ascetic. You say I'm not ascetic. So we agree on that. I really can't help on anything else involving that. I might as well full claim, though, since I can at least read the writing on the wall.

I'm Heihei. Novice Roleblocker - novice is because I'm "eating rocks for some reason" and am too stupid to act. Roleblock flavour is annoying chicken squacking.

Do you actually have any reads you want to share, or are you in full anti-spew mode atp?

[Wavelength]

Well, the disappeared thing with Kokichi appears not to have been the work of Kokichi

[Wavelength]

Penguin has also been edited out of the OP

[Wavelength]

But, it also does not seem like it makes sense for it to be from the scum team, since Marashu flipped janitor.

So, 3rd party?

[Wavelength]

Ali, where is your kill?

[Wavelength]

Ah

[Wavelength]

assuming there's a 2 scumteam and maybe a third party for balance

PB, why were you so confidently world building with the idea of 2 scum and a 3rd party?

Isn't 3 scum more normal for a game this size?

[Wavelength]

Right, but I am now wondering if there is a 3rd party doing the disappearing act, and wondering if him thinking a 2 man scum team was from him either :

-Being scum in a 2 man scum team, and therefore thinking there must be a 3rd party out there for that to make sense, or
-3rd party, and therefore thinking the scum team might be smaller as a result

[Wavelength]

Anyway I think I'm interested in a massclaim?
I think that's a good idea?

I was also thinking about this once I saw the Penguin disappeared post, either full mass claim or maybe flavor? idk

[Wavelength]

I'm so confused about Ircher's play yesterday tbh.

None of his posts leading up the the very end of the day made any sense to me, coming from either alignment really, and left me kind of confused.

I think he was trying to "soft" being bulletproof at you during that conversation where he said his role was obvious, but you and PD did not get it, for what its worth.

Whether real or just an attempt to talk you out of shooting him, not sure, but that was what I gathered he was saying.

[Wavelength]

what good does softing bulletproof even do

It was pretty clear that he was trying to get you to aim at PB instead of at him

[Wavelength]

assuming there's a 2 scumteam and maybe a third party for balance

PB, why were you so confidently world building with the idea of 2 scum and a 3rd party?

Isn't 3 scum more normal for a game this size?

I thought 3 scum was too much but the scumflip talks about partners, plural, so my bad

Have you played in a 13 player game before that had a 2 man scum team?

[Wavelength]

what good does softing bulletproof even do

It was pretty clear that he was trying to get you to aim at PB instead of at him

I should probably rephrase
what good does softing bp do to make him look better

I dont know. Like I said, his play at end of day left me fairly confused.

Probably best to just let him come in an answer this

[Wavelength]

I am Apollo Justice from the Ace Attorney games.

First ability functionally made me novice (I had to use this ability night 1 psyching myself up for court lol)

2 shot invest to see if someone has killed or tried to kill so far this game.
2 shot flavor cop.

I used my kill invest on Ircher last night. I kind of figured that with his miller claim specifically saying it worked for trackers, then if he was he was setting himself up to be doing the night kill night 1, but my result was that he has not tried to kill. So part of why I am not sure what to do with him anymore.

Side note, this is why I put Amici to E-1. I saw his flavor cop claim, and did not expect there to be two town flavor cops. I kind of thought I was going to have to claim the flavor cop day 2, but literally no one asked me why I voted amici lol

[Wavelength]

I can flavor cop PB if we really want their flavor and they keep refusing to claim it.

But I kind of think that my last kill invest could basically be nearly a cop shot with 1 scum down, so that might need to be a night 4 activity

[Wavelength]

I think that PB's role also just... looks like 3rd party, and so maybe we don't wait that long

[Wavelength]

I am kind of debating whether we should kill PB today, or actually give him a chance to kill of Penguin Power before we do, since PP is in the PoE too

[Wavelength]

It does not feel like a third party should be able to reach win con on Night 3, so not really sure if there is a big down side to waiting a day. But I might be missing something

[Wavelength]

I want to target someone else I have to either wake one up (bring them back to the game) or let them in their dreams forever (kill them and they flip normally).

I was already thinking that PB was a third party because of his posts end of day 2, and this is like the most third party looking role I have ever seen, and it is hard to believe that we have two town vigs (and if he can just kill them in their sleep, this is a vig with extra steps if town)

[Wavelength]

Ah whatever I already said my flavor is funny so I got your expectations up and it won't be funny now.

I'm this kid:


My action is called endless dream

Oh, I missed this when I skimmed, so ignore what I said about getting his flavor if he refuses to claim it

[Wavelength]

Okay, did a proper read.

@PB I would also like Kokichi and Penguin's full claims.

Can you tell me why you used your power night one to stop a night kill and then used it night 2 to grab scum? Like, how are you approaching your power?

Also, could you have released Kokichi last night? You said you could do it tonight and take someone else right? Why did you keep Kokichi?

@Ali, I seem to remember you mentioned having another ability other then just your kill at some point? Have you claimed that?

[Wavelength]

I used my kill invest on Ircher last night. I kind of figured that with his miller claim specifically saying it worked for trackers, then if he was he was setting himself up to be doing the night kill night 1, but my result was that he has not tried to kill.

but...they're a miller...

Yeah, but once I got him to finally tell me explicitly how it worked, I knew my invest should get a true result on him.

And to be fair, I did get the less suspicious result.

My result means that he did not attempt to carry out the night 1 kill. But after claiming that he was a miller for trackers, it seemed reasonable that he might have been the one to do the kill if he was scum

[Wavelength]

It’s mostly a delayed vig but I do think I stopped the N1 kill

PB, if you are aware that you are a delayed Vig, why did you not question Ali d2 with her vig claim?

Also, I don't think anyone else has actually claimed anything to stop a kill except you so far, so plausible. But we still have a couple claims to go

[Wavelength]

it wouldn't be prioritary to try to solve your slot because the higher chance is that you're simply town because your play has been towny, your reads are towny and your pushes seem genuine.

I am talking about this. You are a delayed vig, and someone else claims vig, and this is where you land on her.

Did you really think that town delayed vig + town unlimited shot vig had a chance to both be town in this game? --> And also think there was a 2 man scum team?

(And yes, I am asking about unlimited shot vig, not 1-shot, because that is what she said she was when you wrote this.)

[Wavelength]

I think I might stop asking PB questions, because I think they are just always third party here.

[Wavelength]

I am kind of debating whether we should kill PB today, or actually give him a chance to kill of Penguin Power before we do, since PP is in the PoE too

I have had further thoughts on this, but am gonna wait for the mass claim to finish.

Think we just need Flea/Kokachi/Penguin

[Wavelength]

it wouldn't be prioritary to try to solve your slot because

the higher chance is that you're simply town

because your play has been towny, your reads are towny and your pushes seem genuine.

I am talking about this. You are a delayed vig, and someone else claims vig, and this is where you land on her.

Did you really think that town delayed vig + town unlimited shot vig had a chance to both be town in this game? --> And also think there was a 2 man scum team?

(And yes, I am asking about unlimited shot vig, not 1-shot, because that is what she said she was when you wrote this.)

I was never getting Ali eliminated yesterday and

in my eyes they were bussing their partner

so why bother? I needed to be alive today in order to prove my role and I wasn’t in the best position yesterday

?

[Wavelength]

Oh and that's why I was obsessed with your solve yesterday Ali, I needed to know who to target last night between Ircher and PP so even if you couldn't kill Ircher at least I got that right

And why were you then focused on using Ali's solve, who you thought was scum, to aim your ability?

[Wavelength]

OH and I have Here there be dragons the bunny hood last night.

um.... hi.

I got a bunny hood last night ?

[Wavelength]

Magical item, turn into bunny, cannot use any other actions while a bunny, visit another player and they are notified that they were visited by a bunny.

It may only be used once, and cannot be transferred

[Wavelength]

Role madness makes my head hurt.

So some kind of redirection in case the dragons were being protected?

[Wavelength]

Oh and that's why I was obsessed with your solve yesterday Ali, I needed to know who to target last night between Ircher and PP so even if you couldn't kill Ircher at least I got that right

And why were you then focused on using Ali's solve, who you thought was scum, to aim your ability?

Ali claimed they would shoot Ircher and eliminate me today; they said they would reconsider PP if day hasn’t ended at that point, it wasn’t part of their solve, it was part of mine

Right... but that post implied that you thought that Ali was going to shoot one of the scummier slots in the game, because you were obsessed with her solve because trying to avoid targeting the same person that she was.

Why did you actually think that she would be firing there, if she was scum in your mind.

And why are you not now jumping up and down that she is scum, who did not want to kill ircher, so she went from unlimited shot -> 1 shot over night so that she could kill the dragons.

Your play is not making sense to me from your claimed PoV.

[Wavelength]

I think I might stop asking PB questions, because I think they are just always third party here.

I failed to follow through on this lol

[Wavelength]

So you really believed that if you stated that you scum read Ali, there was a chance that scum!Ali would have actually killed you over the dragons, or me, or Stephen?

[Wavelength]

But if you must know, I investigate as "mafia-aligned" to cop-type roles and as visiting all players who died to tracking investigatives. So for a flavor cop, I'd presumably investigate as my flavor.

This is what made me conclude I could target him.

My invests do not give "mafia aligned" as a result, and in not a tracking invest.

My Cross Examination ability would give me the same result on a town vig as on a mafia who has killed

[Wavelength]

I do have a question about irchers claim, but it needs to wait until after pb gives us kokachi and penguin

[Wavelength]

Kokichi and PP haven’t full claimed if you’re implying that you’re waiting me to do it

I was not implying that you were purposefully not giving them. I just meant that i am waiting for their full claims.

Whether the reason is them or you, does not change that.

Have they posted anything to acknowledge we are mass claiming?

[Wavelength]

Kokichi replied, I'm asking for the full claim

Part of his role is that he goes insane if he claims his real flavor so he can’t claim it.

That’s it

So far all you have claimed as a role for kokachi is strongman.

You have added : can't flavor claim, but no active ability which is strongmanned.

[Wavelength]

Did you ask them about their other ability, have they stated that they won't claim it? Did they forget? Ect?

[Wavelength]

Did anyone actually get a

Meow

sk tho?

I got the Bunny Hood

[Wavelength]

Everyone needs to full claim,.including flavour.
There is a redirector.

What makes you think this

My mask didn't go to its recipient.

you get old if your recipient receives it?
That’s cool.
So basically you softed you gave good masks and wolves took the bait?

Flea claimed that they targeted Dragons, so I am thinking they redirected in case of a protective. And the mask was just happenstance

[Wavelength]

Everyone needs to full claim,.including flavour.
There is a redirector.

What makes you think this

My mask didn't go to its recipient.

you get old if your recipient receives it?
That’s cool.
So basically you softed you gave good masks and wolves took the bait?

Flea did not appear to be told until I claimed it

[Wavelength]

Spoiler:

like

I'm literally a double voter with a joke power and a fucking neighbourhood that contains a million people in it which makes my other power invalid.

surrounded by people with like fucking

wacko ass powerful abilities.

Kuribo over here like i'm an infinite one shot doc who once i save someone i'm informed and then i become a one shot bodyguard

you're claiming to be able to imprison 2 people out of the game and shoot within them

Dragons had fucking tracker abilities + bonus super saint nonsense

We had a literal town JOAT.

These claims are way too much power to all be true especially with my role being literally VT. I'm a literal VT and we have 2 fucking double voters apparently.

I agree that PB is too much, but it seems like part of how cakez approached balancing the town power was by giving scum a rolestop and a redirect/busdriver to make the town actions less reliable.

We

know

that both of those things exist out there.

[Wavelength]

I'm not voting PB today

I am considering it.

Earlier when I asked what the down side to waiting to kill PB was, I thought about it and realized that there only appears to be no down side if we believe him when he claims that his targets come back.

If they don't, then letting him live another day could mean letting him take someone else tonight.

Given his approach of "just give me one more day man" I am wondering if his win con does not end the game, and is a Leave The Game Victorious win con.

[Wavelength]

I am not settled on that, and I am still waiting on Kokachi's active ability to help me settle my thoughts on Ircher.

[Wavelength]

I'm an Extremely Apathetic Macaroni Penguin with a Chef's Hat. Due to my apathetic nature, I have to stay in bed sleeping (haha I'm in the dream dimension, funny) during nights 1 & 2, but starting night three I get up and can start cooking pasta to become super-pasta powered! I can cook, eat, and use the ability I gain from eating my food on the same night. I have enough ingredients to make two dishes, and only one of each dish. In short macaroni makes me a 1-shot bodyguard and spaghetti makes me a 1-shot follower.

I crumbed both my apathetic nature and bodyguard with my post 664 talking with Ali about my macaroni

He put it in a quote tag

[Wavelength]

I don't think PB is a third party and I don't think they're a wolf.

I have discounted the possibility of him being a wolf. Once it was pointed out that Marashu's role pm proves the scum team is not 2 man, his [2 man scum team + third party] world building makes less sense from scum!PB.

But I think that his world building originated from the knowledge of a third party existing, because he is the third party.

[Wavelength]

I am not settled on that, and I am still waiting on Kokachi's active ability to help me settle my thoughts on Ircher.

Wave I'm sorry, I don't get what you're waiting, Kokichi already claimed

We have already discussed that Kokachi has an as of yet unclaimed ability which they tried to use on SAS night 1

I want to know what that was. Please ask.

[Wavelength]

I don't think PB is a third party and I don't think they're a wolf.

I have discounted the possibility of him being a wolf. Once it was pointed out that Marashu's role pm proves the scum team is not 2 man, his [2 man scum team + third party] world building makes less sense from scum!PB.

But I think that his world building originated from the knowledge of a third party existing, because he is the third party.

In the first paragraph you're overestimating me and in the second you're underestimating me lol

It has nothing to do with over- or under- estimating you

I think that you perspective slipped.

And that perspective slip could not happen from the pov of the scum team, but could happen from the pov of the third party.

[Wavelength]

OH.

I thought that HIS ability was a strong man ability of an unclaimed variety.

Not that his ability MADE his target a strong man

[Wavelength]

Yeah, I am saying that it looked like a genuine perspective slip.

Then asking what pov it could come from.

[Wavelength]

Anyways, with Kokachi's claim, I can talk about Ircher's claim

[Wavelength]

I investigate as "mafia-aligned" to

I'm a miller who shows up as mafia to cops and as visiting players who die each night to tracking investigatives.

cop-type roles and as visiting all players who died to tracking investigatives.

It is weird that his miller claim specifies both cop invests and tracking invests if we exist in a game without a cop invest.

Like why would he not be just a tracking invest miller?

I was waiting for all claims to see if we had one hiding anywhere, but no one claimed.

[Wavelength]

Oh

I was thinking about it as a scum rolestop and a scum redirector/busdriver being the last two scum.

But actually, a scum redirector targeting Marashu -> Kokichi and then Dragons -> Me would answer both

[Wavelength]

Oh I was thinking that the power could work like "I target Ali and Kokichi -> Ali's action is targeted to Kokichi"
If would make sense with Kokichi's role

But that would not explain why the Dragon's track on Marashu also failed

[Wavelength]

Oh

I was thinking about it as a scum rolestop and a scum redirector/busdriver being the last two scum.

But actually, a scum redirector targeting Marashu -> Kokichi and then Dragons -> Me would answer both

redirect makes person a target person b
me and dragons both targetted marashu but instead both of our actions failed. I don't know what to call this role, it is within the realm of redirection, but it's not a redirector

Quick check on the wiki says that the role that I was thinking of would actually be a "Deflector" https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Deflector instead of a Redirector

[Wavelength]

I think we should all be in agreement that this redirector needs to be found and needs to die

I don't think that it can be:
Stephen A Smith
Flea The Magician
Pink Ball
Penguin Power
Kokichi

As they each have their night actions Proven / were taken by Pink Ball

But from my POV, it has to be in:
Alisae
Lady Lambdadelta
Ircher
kuribo
(I know it wasn't me, but I guess my result on Ircher is not proven.)

I don't think that Alisae redirect actions from Marahu -> Kokichi, then starts the day by claiming that their action failed on Marashu? I am not sure how she would know confidently that actions on Kokichi would have come back as having failed before the Dragons claimed their action failed (unless the scum team submitted a kill on Kokichi, and targeted kokichi or marashu with an invest, which feels like it is never a world that happened) -- so she is cleared from being the deflector imo.

Gonna look at Kuribo's iso to see if their night actions make sense

[Wavelength]

Oh

I was thinking about it as a scum rolestop and a scum redirector/busdriver being the last two scum.

But actually, a scum redirector targeting Marashu -> Kokichi and then Dragons -> Me would answer both

redirect makes person a target person b
me and dragons both targetted marashu but instead both of our actions failed. I don't know what to call this role, it is within the realm of redirection, but it's not a redirector

Quick check on the wiki says that the role that I was thinking of would actually be a "Deflector" https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Deflector instead of a Redirector

mafia kill ignores the deflector me thinks

Oh right. A Deflector as stated by the wiki would have sent the kill to me in addition to the mask...

Role Madness makes me brain hurt

[Wavelength]

Looking for "LLD" in Kuribo's iso does not give me much, he did not appear to talk about her very much until this day phase

@LLD quack quack

This did stand out though as a possible target crumb?

Kuribo was there a rhyme or reason behind this?

If this is a crumb, did you also crumb your Alisae target? IF it is not, then why did you quack at her lol?

[Wavelength]

Oh

I was thinking about it as a scum rolestop and a scum redirector/busdriver being the last two scum.

But actually, a scum redirector targeting Marashu -> Kokichi and then Dragons -> Me would answer both

redirect makes person a target person b
me and dragons both targetted marashu but instead both of our actions failed. I don't know what to call this role, it is within the realm of redirection, but it's not a redirector

Quick check on the wiki says that the role that I was thinking of would actually be a "Deflector" https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Deflector instead of a Redirector

mafia kill ignores the deflector me thinks

Oh right. A Deflector as stated by the wiki would have sent the kill to me in addition to the mask...

Role Madness makes me brain hurt

Wait...

but it is a deflector causing both the Marashu stuff from N1, and me getting the mast, then that would imply that it DID redirect Ali's kill but DID NOT redirect the mafia kill to me. Which feels wrong.

I am back to thinking that it might be two different abilities. One Rolestopper for the Marashu stuff, and then a deflector/bus driver for the mask

[Wavelength]

Wave I like PB saying that ceph was just blocked and I was just redirected to Kokichi

But that does not make sense for scum to redirect Flea to me

[Wavelength]

i also want to say i feel like ali was a maybe busser of Maru but it's hard to tell that claim was ass lol

This does not feel right to me, because the mech side of Maru dying originated from Ali. The dragons outed that their action failed on after Ali outed that her action failed on Maru, not the other way around.

This would imply she walked into the day ready to mech dunk on her partner Maru, which feels wrong to me.

[Wavelength]

i also want to say i feel like ali was a maybe busser of Maru but it's hard to tell that claim was ass lol

This does not feel right to me, because the mech side of Maru dying originated from Ali. The dragons outed that their action failed on after Ali outed that her action failed on Maru, not the other way around.

This would imply she walked into the day ready to mech dunk on her partner Maru, which feels wrong to me.

tbh if I'm a wolf I probably would dunk Maru but
not like how it played out?
I can't imagine me fakeclaiming vigi as a wolf ever.

In our last game, you turned suspected Andante, but did not go hard until after she already had growing suspicion on her.

This game, you outed the mech stuff about Marashu when I was the only person voting him, which feels premature to seal the deal if you are his partner?

[Wavelength]

I think I want the day to end inside of [PB, Ircher, Kuribo].

LLD has 3 proven abilities so I feel like she can be pulled out of the Deflector/Busdriver pool.

If it is Ircher, it would require him to have not killed night 1, but maybe they went for Marashu's Janitor shot night 1?

Or its Kuribo.

[Wavelength]

I mean, yes, them posting more would be nice to help us sort between them / read them moving forward.

But like my third party read on PB is my strongest read atm. So I either want to kill him, or redirector hunt, and that is where I think that has to live.

[Wavelength]

I had suspicions of wavelength, albeit weak ones, and mostly based on associative tells between the slot and Marashu / ircher. Wave's play today has been perfectly cromulent so I'm not completely confident on that solve

I am struggling to wrap my head around what could lead you to the conclusion of this specifically as a group solve?

And it looks like I am specifically here as a group solve, but this feels like probably the least likely list of partners for me??

What associative tells between me / ircher / marashu?

[Wavelength]

Like it feels weird to be grouped up in a team solve of Me + the two players I have scum read the most, for most of the game and I want to see how you say you logic-ed yourself into such a team solve.

[Wavelength]

Pinkball is "The Dream Kid"

[Wavelength]

As for Wave, I don't want to telegraph what I think Wave should do in the event that we don't get redirector today. I know what I would do but I don't want to say.
If we do get the redirector, Wave should probably just flavor cop someone.

I stared at this for a long time, trying to intuit what you meant here. It seemed like you were saying that if we got the redirector I should use my flavor cop, but if we did not I should use my cross examine. But I was worried that if I did the cross examine with a redirector still out there, I could not trust my result. So I went with the flavor cop on PB. They seemed like the most likely person to have fake claimed their flavor.

[Wavelength]

As well, this anonymous message was found at the beginning of the day!

I didn't get to say this because of yet another Pink Ball quickhammer[if you're town and actually quickhammer this many times its not my fault I think you are scummy af, its because quickhammering IS SCUMMY BEHAVIOR]

post 1219 is a scumclaim because it is leashing the claimed vig/sk in a game where we know the scum have a redirector or bus driver

assuming we wake up with 5 players alive[2 nightkills] - we can no longer eliminate pink ball - 2 mafia 1 SK 2 town results in a town loss if the SK gets eliminated

eliminate LLD and pray to god pink ball and the last scum shoot each other

This doesn't make any sense, was it sent from someone who's still alive? I think this is scum trying to get LLD eliminated

Stephen claimed the ability to leave a Start of Day post.

That is clearly from him

[Wavelength]

Ah whatever I already said my flavor is funny so I got your expectations up and it won't be funny now.

I'm this kid:


My action is called endless dream

That's what I claimed, yes.

Wave got the name right so he's telling the truth.

Yeah, the name I got matched what you said. I was expecting it to be a fake claim, but it looks like you true claimed your flavor.

[Wavelength]

Because my action failed; I can't bring someone back if the dream dimension isn't full.

I targeted SAS and released Kokichi.

You are claiming to have targetted SAS, and it failed?

There are like 3 worlds we are living in:

-Pink Ball is lying to stay alive
-Stephen is scum and their partner rolestopped them because PB made it clear that they were targeting stephen.
-The scum team rolestopped a town stephen to frame him as scum, because PB made their target clear.

[Wavelength]

Stephen claimed the ability to leave a Start of Day post.

That is clearly from him

Oh I didn't remember that part of his claim, it didn't look like it was written by him so I thought it was someone else who didn't claim having that kind of power.

It matches his reads. He was very clear that he thinks you are a serial killer, and he made LLD blasphemous

[Wavelength]

Kuribo has to be the scum kill, since what PB does does not flip.

And that seems like a weird kill if scum have a redirector, right? They can just bypass the doc

Maybe the redirector was x-shot?

[Wavelength]

-Pink Ball is lying to stay alive

I had a more incendiary reaction when I read this but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt: what are you implying with this?

That there is a possibility that you are just a janitor/serial killer, and you needed to claim your action action failed since you could not actually bring kokichi back to the game.

[Wavelength]

Okay, running through the numbers like stephen did, but with there being 6 alive instead of 5

If we are at 3:2:1, and we kill Pink Ball, and then there is a night kill, that would make tomorrow 2:2

We lose...

So yeah. We should have killed pink ball yesterday

[Wavelength]

I guess there is the possibility that one of PB's targets were scum since they did not flip, but it seems scary to bet the game on that. So I am gonna work from the assumption that we are 3:2:1 right now.

I think that flea is the person that I am most prepared to treat as 100% town.

[Wavelength]

...and instead of actually "killing" someone I decided to do nothing last night instead of going for this:

assuming we wake up with 5 players alive[2 nightkills] - we can no longer eliminate pink ball - 2 mafia 1 SK 2 town results in a town loss if the SK gets eliminated

I didn't care about the SK reads on me 'cause they made sense in a way that, from everyone's perspective, it could be part of the setup and there wasn't enough information to confirm or deny my role, but now you're still pushing for the idea that I'm a SK and playing against my wincon?

Come on dude.

I just ran the numbers, and we are still unable to kill you at 6.

So no, I don't think that no killing would be anti-wincon for you to have done

[Wavelength]

I guess there is the possibility that one of PB's targets were scum since they did not flip, but it seems scary to bet the game on that. So I am gonna work from the assumption that we are 3:2:1 right now.

I think that flea is the person that I am most prepared to treat as 100% town.

That just leaves 1 more town in [Ali, Stephen, LLD]

I really want to believe its Ali, but Stephen+LLD going at one another so much leading into the end game makes me question if they can be teamed

[Wavelength]

I guess there is the possibility that one of PB's targets were scum since they did not flip, but it seems scary to bet the game on that. So I am gonna work from the assumption that we are 3:2:1 right now.

I think that flea is the person that I am most prepared to treat as 100% town.

That just leaves 1 more town in [Ali, Stephen, LLD]

I really want to believe its Ali, but Stephen+LLD going at one another so much leading into the end game makes me question if they can be teamed

Maybe the game actually makes more sense if one of Kokichi / Penguin was scum?

Because Ali being town, and then it being *one of* Stephen/LLD makes a lot more sense to me with how I have been reading this game.

[Wavelength]

@PB, you said that Kokichi claimed they would die if they claimed their flavor to you.

What happens if someone dies while in your dream? Can someone die while in your dream?

Either way, I think I want Kokichi to flavor claim so we can just see what happens

[Wavelength]

How was the kill stopped day 1? How was Scum's kill stopped day 1, is the question we need to ask.

They didn't shoot Ircher. No fucking way.

so either they SHOT Kokichi and the PB thing protected him/PB is a SK and they both shot Kokichi, or PB's thing roleblocks when it happens.

I agree they never shot Ircher, and Kuribo said his ability did not save it.

So I think that it really has to be that the scum and PB doubled up on kokichi

[Wavelength]

@PB, you said that Kokichi claimed they would die if they claimed their flavor to you.

What happens if someone dies while in your dream? Can someone die while in your dream?

Either way, I think I want Kokichi to flavor claim so we can just see what happens

You're asking something that is way out of my knowledge. Kokichi claimed he would die, I don't know what happens, but I believe that Kokichi is town and that he was the scum NK on N1 and him dying would do no good

If Kokichi spontaneously flipped in the middle of this day phase, it would prove that you are talking to Kokichi.

[Wavelength]

And that kokichi is not actually just dead already

[Wavelength]

I know they're out of the game until they stop dreaming, so if I had to guess, if someone died while dreaming, they would flip in thread because they technically stopped dreaming

Bet.

Make it happen.

[Wavelength]

@PB, you said that Kokichi claimed they would die if they claimed their flavor to you.

What happens if someone dies while in your dream? Can someone die while in your dream?

Either way, I think I want Kokichi to flavor claim so we can just see what happens

You're asking something that is way out of my knowledge. Kokichi claimed he would die, I don't know what happens, but I believe that Kokichi is town and that he was the scum NK on N1 and him dying would do no good

If Kokichi spontaneously flipped in the middle of this day phase, it would prove that you are talking to Kokichi.

I'll ask him but I can't force him. I'm weirded out about this being relevant tho, why would I not want to claim Kokichi's flavor if I was lying about communitating with him

You were just trying to tell me that I am wrong to think that you are actually just a serial killer. Why would you be surprised to see me attempt to force out a way to prove more of your claim if possible?

[Wavelength]

I know they're out of the game until they stop dreaming, so if I had to guess, if someone died while dreaming, they would flip in thread because they technically stopped dreaming

Bet.

Make it happen.

What do you want me to do if Kokichi refuses dude you're putting me in an impossible situation

That is a bridge to cross if we get there.

It would likely result in an attempted game of telephone with Kokichi.

And I do have thoughts about what both outcomes could mean for the game state, but don't want to say until we have gotten our answer.

[Wavelength]

You were just trying to tell me that I am wrong to think that you are actually just a serial killer. Why would you be surprised to see me attempt to force out a way to prove more of your claim if possible?

Yes but the way you're trying to make me prove to you that I'm not a SK depends on another player who can make their own decisions, I can't force Kokichi to die for me to prove you anything

If it fails, then we are not in a worse position then if we just don't try. (and

redacted

)

If it works, then it gives us new actionable info.

I don't see what the harm is in trying, when we are quite possibility sitting in Elo right now.

So why are you so against this plan?

[Wavelength]

Ok cool
I lied about using mask
I didn’t use it n2 but used it last night

Ah, a fourth world.

I'll think on this, and I lowkey want to just wait for our answer from/about Kokichi

[Wavelength]

@Wave I'll ask him to read this whole interaction and let him decide, but as I said before, Kokichi thinks I'm scum so I don't expect him to cooperate

If that is his answer, then we get to play telephone.

But I will wait to hear his answer

[Wavelength]

Also, PB, how are you reading your two hood mates?

[Wavelength]

Actually, maybe don't have kokichi claim to you yet.

I am thinking.

Give me a little time, and I'll talk more once I think the possibilities through.

[Wavelength]

Redirecting pb off of sas sounds plausible

Yeah. I see that.

That is what I meant when I said it was a fourth world

[Wavelength]

So what you're saying is if we elim wolves today the game is over

If PP is scum, yes, it should be!

If PP is scum, yes, it should be!

Got corrected about this: if I got the last scum in my neighbor, they could technically win if I get killed or if I release them

PB,If the game does not end when there are no scum in the main thread, and you are town, how do we ever win this game if you have scum in your hood?

[Wavelength]

Pb either lied or they were redirected to me

There’s also the question of why you’re still here wave. Invest is spooky and you weren’t redirected

That is part of the reason that I thought that the redirect might be out of shots. I landed on my target, so I was not redirected, and it would explain why the doctor was actually an issue for the scum team now.

[Wavelength]

That does mean that I am likely the kill for tonight though, since I still have a shot of my cross examine since I used flavor last night, and the doctor is gone.

[Wavelength]

(unless PB lied and did not act)

[Wavelength]

Either way if we’re looking for groupwolves
There’s only one person it could be
And it’s not sas

Why are you landing on it being LLD>SAS

I do feel like from PoE, it is one of them, but need to go do some rereading to feel confident enough for a possible Elo answer.

[Wavelength]

Like all this talking around it ignores that scum knew what PB would do. PB was claiming to kill SAS.

So if SAS was town, scum would have allowed that to occur.

(unless PB lied and did not act)

This has me back to thinking we should consider the Kokichi flavor claim plan.

If Kokichi can flip, then it proves that they are talking to PB, which feels like it proves that PB has the ability to send people back. If they have the ability to send people back, then it seems like he would have done so to look better.

If PB does not have a hood / does not have the ability to send people back, then him choosing not to act seems more likely.

[Wavelength]

(unless PB lied and did not act)

That's.... true but would be an incredibly weird thing to do.

Not if he is a serial killer, who cannot send people back to the thread because they are in the dead thread, and he was just told that he needed to send Kokichi back to the main thread and literally cannot do that.

[Wavelength]

Like all this talking around it ignores that scum knew what PB would do. PB was claiming to kill SAS.

So if SAS was town, scum would have allowed that to occur.

(unless PB lied and did not act)

This has me back to thinking we should consider the Kokichi flavor claim plan.

If Kokichi can flip, then it proves that they are talking to PB, which feels like it proves that PB has the ability to send people back. If they have the ability to send people back, then it seems like he would have done so to look better.

If PB does not have a hood / does not have the ability to send people back, then him choosing not to act seems more likely.

If Kokichi is dreaming in a hood or what ever, I want this to happen. The info benefit I think helps us a lot.

If not, I need a pretty good argument from Kokichi on why they won't do this.

If it both does not happen, and does not give a good case for why it is not happening, then I am prepared to world build from PB choosing to not act. If either of those happen, then I can consider world building from the pov of PB being redirected onto Ali.

[Wavelength]

(unless PB lied and did not act)

That's.... true but would be an incredibly weird thing to do.

Not if he is a serial killer, who cannot send people back to the thread because they are in the dead thread, and he was just told that he needed to send Kokichi back to the main thread and literally cannot do that.

He was claiming he was going to kill Kokichi and succ SAS no?

No, he said that he could either Kill someone, or Release them back to the thread.

Ali told him to release Kokichi

[Wavelength]

Does your claw turn off in Melo? or just Elo?

[Wavelength]

Because we have an even number of player alive rn

[Wavelength]

I mean, I am a flavor cop, but that is not why I am asking.

I feel like this post (including the quotes in it) does a good job of explaining how it helps.

I would like him to respond to this post:

Like all this talking around it ignores that scum knew what PB would do. PB was claiming to kill SAS.

So if SAS was town, scum would have allowed that to occur.

(unless PB lied and did not act)

This has me back to thinking we should consider the Kokichi flavor claim plan.

If Kokichi can flip, then it proves that they are talking to PB, which feels like it proves that PB has the ability to send people back. If they have the ability to send people back, then it seems like he would have done so to look better.

If PB does not have a hood / does not have the ability to send people back, then him choosing not to act seems more likely.

If Kokichi is dreaming in a hood or what ever, I want this to happen. The info benefit I think helps us a lot.

If not, I need a pretty good argument from Kokichi on why they won't do this.

If it both does not happen, and does not give a good case for why it is not happening, then I am prepared to world build from PB choosing to not act. If either of those happen, then I can consider world building from the pov of PB being redirected onto Ali.

[Wavelength]

But yeah, the lld stuff can happen first

[Wavelength]

I think scum not having a redirect anymore answers some of the questions you are asking Ali.

You told Kuribo to protect me.

Then if PB just no acted, all of the night actions make sense to me

[Wavelength]

Like, with no redirect, kuribo's doc is a bigger threat, and he has to be killed

Like redirect being xshot explains why I am alive, why kuribo is dead, and why my result is true.

[Wavelength]

The only thing unexplained is PB's shot.

Which could be a PB lie or a roleblock/rolestop

[Wavelength]

Redirecting flea to you seems so bad though

Oh yeah... that one made sense when I was thinking deflector/busdriver > redirector, but we kind of discounted that possibility

Role madness is a pain, and this game makes me think that simpler set ups are more my jam :/

[Wavelength]

Interesting

[Wavelength]

Do we think that scum!pp confirms the hood this way?

[Wavelength]

Redirecting flea to you seems so bad though

Oh yeah... that one made sense when I was thinking deflector/busdriver > redirector, but we kind of discounted that possibility

Role madness is a pain, and this game makes me think that simpler set ups are more my jam :/

Wiat ur not an alt?

I am, but I don't generally play upicks.

I've only played one before, and it was a lot simpler then this. Mostly ended up being a lot of hoods. Not a bunch of confusing night action shenanigans

[Wavelength]

So what you're saying is if we elim wolves today the game is over

If PP is scum, yes, it should be!

If PP is scum, yes, it should be!

Got corrected about this: if I got the last scum in my neighbor, they could technically win if I get killed or if I release them

PB,If the game does not end when there are no scum in the main thread, and you are town, how do we ever win this game if you have scum in your hood?

[Wavelength]

Information about you answers questions about what the scum did or did not do during the night.

Your hood has been proven, and I don't need the kokichi stuff anymore. That is good information to have gained.

But I need to know how your role affects how we win, and you are the only one who can ask the mod questions.

Do we win? Do we have to kill you in order to kill scum in your hood? Do we have to let you keep succing us so that you can kill who ever is the scum in your hood?

What happens if you are the only one alive, with scum in your hood?

The answers to these questions influence our possible paths to victory, and I cannot ask the mod any clarifying questions about your role

[Wavelength]

Also, I have stepped out of just looking at you to try and sort through the rest of the pl. But your role, regardless of alignment, is a mountain of questions on how we can possibly win this game

[Wavelength]

I am reasonably satisfied that pb's hood is real at this point, for what it's worth.

I don't know how pb could possibly know to say anything from pp, unless they are literally scum partners, but pb's role does not make sense as a scum role.

So. Not really sure the kokichi stuff is even needed anymore

[Wavelength]

If LLD partner is literally pp all 3 groupwolves were in a pt with 1 town Kuribo btw

that's legitimately not possible.

you literally have to be able to rule that out

Dragons was also in there for what it's worth.

Given the flavor of the hood, I don't think it is impossible in a "the mod would not do this" kind of way.

But it would mean that when alignments were randomed, it landed on 3 out of 5 animal based picks as scum -- which feels so incredibly unlikely.

[Wavelength]

I think I might be leaning SAS > lld for group scum.

But I am not confident in that at all, and want to do some rereading before we commit to anything

So please don't speed the day @ali / flea / pb

[Wavelength]

I was stuck in ninja hell trying to get that post out

[Wavelength]

It's bad faith to try and argue this. Scum outnumbering town in a hood is bastard design.

I get the feeling that the idea for an All Animal hood was made before the alignments were even randomed - and it is a purely flavor based hood, not an alignment one.

So, I don't think that it would be bastard.

However, the odds of it landing on only animal picks when over half of the PL were non-animals seems very unlikely, so I also feel like that is not likely the world we live in.

[Wavelength]

fwiw, I got the feeling that Stephen was being purposefully blunt as part of roleplaying as Stephen Smith.

Like "it is bad to not kill a SK when we are at 8p alive, and so we should focus on killing the SK while we can" -> " its gamethrowing"

Also the "its comical they are letting you get away with this" line felt that way to me.

I felt like this was the issue that PB was having with Stephen, was reading it without the context of why it was said so bluntly and with in the absolute.
----

But also, nothing he said felt like it crossed a line for me either, so I don't feel like I can really engage with the current discussion.

[Wavelength]

I do not think that I can ever see a world where flea is scum, and would bet the game on fea being town over every single other player.

[Wavelength]

Role and night actions.

Giving a commute to Ali. Giving a fruit vendor to the Dragons.

[Wavelength]

And I know that the fruit vendor is a real thing that fea handed out, because it ended up in my hands.

[Wavelength]

Commute to Ali seems wildly unlikely to come from scum. So that only happens in a Flea+Ali world. But even then, why claim it?

And then the fruit vendor proves that they are really an inventor from my POV

[Wavelength]

Role and night actions.

Giving a commute to Ali. Giving a fruit vendor to the Dragons.

Mafia Inventor works just fine as a role in this setup, and those are relatively weak roles in general.

I don't think that handing out a full protection to Ali is a relatively weak choice.

If you are scum, and you can do that, you always give it to a partner, no?

[Wavelength]

Okay, I had originally planned on hiding it, because it become super weak if I out it, but thinking on it more, I don't think that I ever make it to tomorrow anyways, so it doesn't matter.

Flea also gave me their third mask (unless this was somehow redirected again, which would be ???). Which is also helping prop up my fea read

[Wavelength]

The fruit vendor was not multitasking, but my new mask is multitasking.

[Wavelength]

Yeah

[Wavelength]

Okay, I had originally planned on hiding it, because it become super weak if I out it, but thinking on it more, I don't think that I ever make it to tomorrow anyways, so it doesn't matter.

Flea also gave me their third mask (unless this was somehow redirected again, which would be ???). Which is also helping prop up my fea read

[Wavelength]

Wait is the redirector only confirmed via Flea??????

I think we were also saying that one of Ali / Dragons had to be redirected into Kokichi since they both failed

[Wavelength]

What if wolves shot the miller

This feels like a pretty bad wolf shot.

But I also don't know how that helps us moving forward, and not sure it is worth pondering over whether that happened of if they doubled up on Kokichi.

Because solving from this point feels like it is the same in either world?

[Wavelength]

Dats a long post.

I am also here and not quick hammering for what its worth

[Wavelength]

I have read the big post and

This is the face of someone that's excited to play some mafia:

[Wavelength]

Ali, I feel like I can see where most of your case is coming from, but I did have a couple questions.

This is the bigger one I think, but: If your solve is LLD+PB, why did you choose to kill LLD first? Like, if we are at 4:2, and we go for LLD and you are wrong, and she is town, we lose. But if we are at 4:2 right now, and we go for PB first and we are wrong, and he is town, then Kokichi and PP are released, and tomorrow is 4:2 again - so we would have gotten an extra shot at this with that path.

The lack of quick hammer makes me think that maybe it no longer makes sense for us to divert out of the Stephen v LLD at this point. (I kind of want to run some scenarios in my head for a bit to see if this makes any sense)

Smaller thing

if it was like a mod provided fakeclaim or something I would buy it!

Does anyone here have any mod meta on whether Cakez gives scum teams fake claims? If no one knows, I can do some looking

[Wavelength]

I have a few pages of back reading to do, and I will try to think more on your solve Ali.

[Wavelength]

Did stephen say that his blasphemous ability also turns off in ELO?

[Wavelength]

causes them to be hated the next day - this doesnt work at elo

Yeah, he did!

[Wavelength]

because if we had a third party, were we to eliminate town today, town would no longer hold a majority

where as if town eliminated town with 4:2, they DO still hold majority, if only for a night phase moment. (3:2)

so we're either 4:1:1 rn or we're 4:2 rn.

Knowing that we are never in 4:2:1 does make me feel a bit better about this day phase, ngl.

And that means that once the Stephen slot is replaced, they can also confirm how the mod is defining Elo for this kind of ability, and confirm that 100%

[Wavelength]

Nightkill resolves before my action, Wave

Were you not arguing before that your ability triggered first, and that is how you managed to stop a night kill targetted at Kokichi?

But also, I have no idea how this is relevant

[Wavelength]

because if we had a third party, were we to eliminate town today, town would no longer hold a majority

where as if town eliminated town with 4:2, they DO still hold majority, if only for a night phase moment. (3:2)

so we're either 4:1:1 rn or we're 4:2 rn.

Knowing that we are never in 4:2:1 does make me feel a bit better about this day phase, ngl.

And that means that once the Stephen slot is replaced, they can also confirm how the mod is defining Elo for this kind of ability, and confirm that 100%

Actually, thinking on this, I feel like LLD always true claims how the elo thing works since Stephen had already claimed to have an ability that worked that way too.

[Wavelength]

Nightkill resolves before my action, Wave

Were you not arguing before that your ability triggered first, and that is how you managed to stop a night kill targetted at Kokichi?

But also, I have no idea how this is relevant

You make it really hard to imagine a world where you are town lol

Like, imgaine being a townie, with a role that you used EXPRESSELY TO TRY TO STOP A NIGHT KILL ON NIGHT 1, and then trying to argue that kills happen before your ability happens lmao

[Wavelength]

@Ali, can we kill Pink Ball first?

I am so much more confident that he is Not Town, then I am that LLD is the scum between LLD and Stephen Slot.

And like I said, even if he is SOMEHOW town, then we gain +2 players, and end up back here again with 6 alive. Like, this feels like the safer play

Pedit: what do you mean that they would be back after everything resolves? Didn't you say they come back if you die? That would resolve before any night actions are even submitted, no?

[Wavelength]

If we can never be in a 3:2:! world, killing Pink Ball is the only correct play here.

Because of the Elo mechanics from LLD and Stephen both working to day, the only possible worlds are 4:2 and 4:1:1

If Ali's solve it right, then we killed scum.
If Pink Ball is town, then we are back to 4:2 tomorrow, with confirmed town Kokichi.

If Pink Ball is 3rd party, then we are at 4:2 tomorrow, with 1 confirmed scum in Kokichi/Penguin Power and 1 confirmed scum in the rest of the Player list.

This is the only kill, that never puts us into a worse position even if we are wrong.

[Wavelength]

VOTE: pink ball

This is the way.

[Wavelength]

Ali, I wanted to kill pink ball yesterday, and you talked me out of it.

This is the kill for today.

I was not sure before the confirmation that we are not in 3:2:1, but now I am.

[Wavelength]

Wave, being on 4:2 tomorrow vs being on 4:2 today is never a better option and you insisting on getting me killed today started as a "huh interesting" and it's turning into "this is the scum that would push for the obvious scum agenda" quickly.

Kokichi conftown vs whoever the scumteam decides to kill tonight? Tomorrow you'll have to solve between LLD and SAS just like today? You're just giving the scumteam the alternative of having one more nightkill to control the game.

Having a mechanically confirmed town in melo is not a better option then not having a mechanically confirmed town in Melo? Because we don't currently have one of those.

Like what are you talking about? lol

But also, this lets us resolve your slot, which even if you are town, you have to realize that you are in the PoE. Being in 4:2, with you resolved vs being in 4:2 without you resolved IS better.

And if you are not town, then being in the next day phase without you is also better for the town.

We are in a better position after killing you for all three possible alignments for you.


And the alternative option, is to potentially BET THE GAME on LLD being scum.

[Wavelength]

You want to eliminate the player who can assure that SAS vs LLD is solved without caring who flips

Yeah, because if we are wrong inside of SAS vs LLD, and you are scum like ALi thinks, we lose on the spot.

[Wavelength]

I'll even go further with what I thought at the begining of the day: I think your flavorcop is not just a flavorcop, but it's what actually stops actions and you're the one who's messing with the whole redirector thing, you stopped Save the Dragons on N1 and that's why they were the next nightkill, because of the power they had and you knew. Marashu stopped Ali, that checks out, that's it

You are just floundering because you need people to not listen to me.

[Wavelength]

I'll even go further with what I thought at the begining of the day: I think your flavorcop is not just a flavorcop, but it's what actually stops actions and you're the one who's messing with the whole redirector thing, you stopped Save the Dragons on N1 and that's why they were the next nightkill, because of the power they had and you knew. Marashu stopped Ali, that checks out, that's it

This presented world view means that scum has 1 role blocker, and another flavorcop+roleblocker combo, which is a silly stance for you to take here.

But I get it, it is hard to spin a narrative that a townie is scum.

[Wavelength]

Kokichi is not mechanically confirmed

If you are town, then you must have been the one to stop the night kill by saving Kokichi.

You are the one who was arguing this just a few days ago.

[Wavelength]

Like, your stance on all things are "what ever means I don't die"

[Wavelength]

You want to eliminate the player who can assure that SAS vs LLD is solved without caring who flips

Yeah, because if we are wrong inside of SAS vs LLD,

and you are scum

like ALi thinks, we lose on the spot.

NO WE DON'T??? I target either SAS or LLD and it's problem solved

From my pov, killing LLD is betting the game on the team not being you+Stephen

[Wavelength]

Anyways, I have put my stake in the ground. Its up to Ali/Flea what we do here at this point.

[Wavelength]

From my pov, killing LLD is betting the game on the team not being you+Stephen

Ooooooooooookay so why I don't just hammer LLD and win

This is actually a good point. It is not you + Stephen.

So if you are scum, it would have to be you + LLD.

But I am also still of the opinion that there is a solid chance that you are 3rd party.

And this is all still true:

If Ali's solve it right, then we killed scum.
If Pink Ball is town, then we are back to 4:2 tomorrow, with confirmed town Kokichi.

If Pink Ball is 3rd party, then we are at 4:2 tomorrow, with 1 confirmed scum in Kokichi/Penguin Power and 1 confirmed scum in the rest of the Player list.

This is the only kill, that never puts us into a worse position even if we are wrong.

[Wavelength]

I thought it would be harder to 1v1 you tomorrow but you had to be ambitious and try to derail the wagon today didn't you

And like, if you think I am scum, what even would be the reason for me (who is fairly widely town read) to throw myself into the fray onto you?

In that world view, you are not the path of least resistance, who ever is town between Stephen or LLD would be.

Like I said before, you are just spouting that I am scum, because you need people not to listen to me

[Wavelength]

Like, you are the only person in this game who knows for sure if there is a third party or not, since you are the only possible third party slot.

So from your PoV, we are ALWAYS in 4:2.

If I am scum with Stephen / Ali / Flea, I vote LLD here, and win on the spot, right?

That means I am only possibly scum with LLD from your POV, right? So I just try to go for the Stephen elim for the win?

Like, what even are you arguing that I am trying to accomplish pushing you right now?

[Wavelength]

Like, you're basing your case of "this can't be 3v2v1" because of what LLD said... who is my partner? So scum told the truth about their role not working on ELO?

Stephen's ability also worked this day phase, when he said that it would not work in ELO.

I am down to wait for the stephen slot to be replaced, so that we can confirm it before we move forward.

[Wavelength]

I also already said it

[Wavelength]

Did stephen say that his blasphemous ability also turns off in ELO?

causes them to be hated the next day - this doesnt work at elo

Yeah, he did!

because if we had a third party, were we to eliminate town today, town would no longer hold a majority

where as if town eliminated town with 4:2, they DO still hold majority, if only for a night phase moment. (3:2)

so we're either 4:1:1 rn or we're 4:2 rn.

Knowing that we are never in 4:2:1 does make me feel a bit better about this day phase, ngl.

And that means that once the Stephen slot is replaced, they can also confirm how the mod is defining Elo for this kind of ability, and confirm that 100%

because if we had a third party, were we to eliminate town today, town would no longer hold a majority

where as if town eliminated town with 4:2, they DO still hold majority, if only for a night phase moment. (3:2)

so we're either 4:1:1 rn or we're 4:2 rn.

Knowing that we are never in 4:2:1 does make me feel a bit better about this day phase, ngl.

And that means that once the Stephen slot is replaced, they can also confirm how the mod is defining Elo for this kind of ability, and confirm that 100%

Actually, thinking on this, I feel like LLD always true claims how the elo thing works since Stephen had already claimed to have an ability that worked that way too.