Mini Normal 2323 [There is an Inventor] | FIN

[JacksonVirgo]

both

your role and Kage benefits the wolves more than the Town. You can for sure argue that yours was to supplement the Towns fight against the vig's but like a macho-maker and the strengthener is like almost entirely a negative utility role, especially with a JK and a protection-based invention in the game. The Gunsmith that has a positive on everybody and their mother is not counteracting powerful scum kills, it's to find PRs/some inventions. Like it has a positive on every claimed and flipped PR in the game right now + more from the inventions.

[JacksonVirgo]

Reminder that the strengthener is personal so it pretty much doesn't benefit scum, or like, half as much

Ah yeah thank you, I forgot that part

[JacksonVirgo]

The only thing I don't super duper like is the macho-maker which doesn't make much sense to have but I'm willing to overlook that for now. Kage on the other hand, that's almost certainly a scum role masked to look like a town one. If not by social play (aka he's a v-cop or something), then it's made with the Godfather in mind to be a safe fake-claim for them.

[JacksonVirgo]

The only thing I don't super duper like is the macho-maker which doesn't make much sense to have but I'm willing to overlook that for now. Kage on the other hand, that's almost certainly a scum role masked to look like a town one. If not by social play (aka he's a v-cop or something), then it's made with the Godfather in mind to be a safe fake-claim for them.

Combined BG vig shoots the machoified guy

BG doesn't work

free vig shot (big)

Hey, how about you stop making sense

[JacksonVirgo]

what is kage's role exactly btw? didn't understeand that part too much

He appears to be Katsuku 2.0. A JOAT with a Gunsmith, Follower and a Modifier Cop. All of which aid in finding PRs instead of wolves in this setup

[JacksonVirgo]

I have a few pools right now. I have the wagons that Dann avoided voting { enchant / kage }
I have the two pools based on who Dann flipped their read on { Gypyx / Thom } { Enchant / Kage }
And then I have the lack of actions + no other reason to TR them in { Thom / Enchant }.

[JacksonVirgo]

I'm unsure if Town would truly have two JOATs and two Inventors, I guess with double kills and two wolves who can do that type of thing it

could

make sense but I severely doubt it. I probably stick to my guns that I went with early today and just say we wipe Enchant and Kage from the game and that probably just wins us the game in a 2-wolf game and then solve in Thom/Gypyx if it's a 3-wolf game. That's just from my perspective of course. Scum needs to dig their feet in to win this, which makes me feel like it's Kage over Enchant and I still believe that completely but I am okay with Enchant as a wagon.

[JacksonVirgo]

Please stop misgendering me. And are you seriously arguing that scum would not just forgo their nightkill to use a Follower shot, but find a Jailkeep+investigative with it and then... not kill them?

Sorry for the misgendering.

You placed a snuck premise in that statement. I have not drunk the 2-wolf coolaid so refrain from throwing down your assumptions down my throat and pretending I am making arguments with them.

Regarding the kill, I feel it's incredibly likely that the wolves would use the vig/hider shots first. Given how they'd 100% claim it if it were the vig/bg and that the wolves are incredibly unlikely to give away the base vigilante shot first which means the N1 and N2 factional kills are

missing

entirely. Why would this be the case? It doesn't make sense without some out of the box thinking, or wifom arguments from the wolves which would be what you're doing now. I also don't have the information that the wolves would have, so you're asking me to assume scum motivation where I have no logical way of discerning that outside of theories which I already see your the type of person to just throw away anything that doesn't 100% force you to change your way of thinking considering you've already done it many times.

I can see four worlds

1. The wolves are choosing to refrain from killing.
2. The kills have been blocked twice in a row.
3. The wolves cannot kill.
4. Magical fourth world where I am overlooking or lacking a piece of information

The likelihood of wolves choosing to not kill is incredibly low considering the amount of kill-power they seem to have. 3 kills is exponentially better than 1/2, plus that kill would be directly controlled by the wolves as opposed to put in the hands of the Town.

I don't remember who Elements said they blocked N2 but regardless, they blocked dave N1 and I doubt anybody believes them to be a wolf considering the circumstances surrounding them.

So, chances are that the wolves just simply cannot kill. What world would land in a no-kill world? One where all the wolves are compulsive and thus cannot have access to the night kill at all, which is the theory that has been cooking in my mind a lot since Thom had started the theory D2. Which is massively not what I expect from a Normal but it's a complex and it's already tripped me out with the mech so what's stopping it really. It would make sense in a 2 or 3 scum world given that the remaining scum can still use Dann's inventions.

[JacksonVirgo]

I finally overtook Black's post count, holy shit how much did they post

[JacksonVirgo]

If there was no kill day 1 and Dave was jailed day 1 doesn't that mean he could have been making the night kill or no

Sure, but again if he were wolf he wouldn't have claimed having the vig which is almost immediately confirmable + if it's not true just dooms him

[JacksonVirgo]

Did he ever say what kind of vig it was?

Not explicitly but I feel it's obvious

[JacksonVirgo]

Which do you think

"Town really needs me to town-read them" paraphrased, it's the vig/hider almost certainly

[JacksonVirgo]

Probably

[JacksonVirgo]

I kinda overlooked that interaction

[JacksonVirgo]

If dave gets blocked and we're wrong on whatever elim we choose today, we're gonna end up eliminating the person dave would shoot anyway which is yet another "locked elim" which hurts the thread health. I can see the benefit in both blocking dave, and also blocking someone else to avoid them giving more killing inventions out or doing the maul if Thom's theory is wrong. Which gives us the most benefits? I'm not sure, I'll have to think about that more

[JacksonVirgo]

I don't think so

[JacksonVirgo]

If I humour not playing conservatively, (and p-edit, if elements can even act) I mean we can funnel actions to sort the entire 4+ player PoE in one cycle. An example world that I'm just coming up with off the top of my head is to:
1. Lim Enchant
2. Dave kills Kage
3. Elements blocks Thom
4. Gypyx / JV gives each other an invention.
5. Hu Tao vibes (or uses the invention I gave)

With this
- Enchant gets sorted
- Kage gets sorted
- Thom gets sorted
- Gypyx / JV solve whether it's a 2 or 3p wolf team.
- If it's a 3p wolf team and we flip a wolf today, Hu Tao gets sorted through Thom's inversion. Otherwise the same as below
- If it's a 2p wolf team, the unsorted resides in { Hu Tao, JV, Gypyx } in which we can resolve manually.

[JacksonVirgo]

If we're unlucky and all kills flip green, we'd be in a 2v3 or a 1v4 which are not horrid odds at all.

[JacksonVirgo]

N1 dave kill makes very little sense, like incredibly little sense.
Dave doing the killing and getting blocked makes even less sense.
Scum sacrificing a night kill to give them undue risk with a vig vend makes no sense to me

[JacksonVirgo]

it's kinda slow, but it feels more "town have a good grasp of what's going on" slow and not a "wolves are happy with the status quo" slow

What's the difference?

[JacksonVirgo]

Thom getting blocked doesn't work anyone.

Oh? Why wouldn't it?

[JacksonVirgo]

I didn't even notice a claim, that fuckin' sucks actually. Ugh

[JacksonVirgo]

I think we do the same plan just remove Thom's block and kill Thom instead if the flip goes red and the game doesn't end, it's less effective but we deal

[JacksonVirgo]

I haven't full-claimed what my inventions are but I think that's for the best

[JacksonVirgo]

I might just full-claim but we'll see. Gyp what inventions do you got left?

[JacksonVirgo]

Actually

[JacksonVirgo]

I don't think it's actually necessary to cross-invention each other, I just said each other cuz it seems cleaner to think about but if u got a Macho left, you should probably place it on someone scummy so that if it lands and somebody gets a suicide-vig they can avoid killing themselves.

[JacksonVirgo]

Lim Enchant.
Dave kills Kage
Gypyx places Macho on Thom
JV gives someone unknown an invention
Hu Tao / Elements just vibing, watching netflix or something

Just letting everybody know that I'm okay with claiming but idt it benefits us at all and it's better hidden

[JacksonVirgo]

I don't think it's actually necessary to cross-invention each other, I just said each other cuz it seems cleaner to think about but if u got a Macho left, you should probably place it on someone scummy so that if it lands and somebody gets a suicide-vig they can avoid killing themselves.

i think it would be more pertinent to give out the compulsive strengthener? like, macho *might* land us a kill, but having a scum permanently blocked from killing is way better value

How would scum be permanently blocked from killing?

[JacksonVirgo]

compulsive

I mean if the wolf with the vig inventor got it from being a backup. That would make them compulsive too so it kinda just voids that idea

[JacksonVirgo]

Look, here's a breakdown of worst case scenario if we were in a 3 wolf world. Thomith's wasn't dire enough because he forgot about the N2 kill.

9 town/3 wolf
D1 miselimination
8/3
N1 kill, vig dispensed
7/3 on D2
D2 miselimination
6/3
N2 kill, 2 deaths from vig invention
3/3 starting D3 = game over


This is not balanced. There's potential for scum to get vigged or target the same as the town vig, but I don't believe bianco makes a game with a

larger

than standard scum team and then puts in extra killing power which is largely controlled by wolves.

I'll review the suggested plan later when I have more time but my initial impression is that Jackson is still being a paranoid tunneller and hopefully it doesn't even matter because Enchant is my prime suspect right now.

And in the world where there is no scum factional kill cuz of compulsive wolves.

9v3 wcs
Elim into 8v3
Vig vended 8v3
Elim into 7v3
Vig vended + 2 town dead 5v3
Elim into 4v3
Vig vended + 2 town dead 2v3

That's worst case scenario.
Wolves got 1.33 KPN by N3 and then it once again drops because that's exhausting the double kills.
And that's additional KPN that's risky as fuck due to it being in the hands of the Town

AND

delayed so it can be dealt with by the JK, the doctor invention, or gypyx's utility to control the killing somewhat. 3+ ways to block the kills, plus a slow and not even that beneficial kill method for the scum that's only barely beneficial by numbers over a traditional night kill that would only really benefit them if they're super lucky or they had excellent thread control

If you run it normally
9v3 elims into 8v3
kills into 7v3
elims into 6v3
kills into 5v3
elims into 4v3
kills into 3v3

Notice how it's pretty much the exact same?

[JacksonVirgo]

Plus even in a 2-wolf world, that would make the final wolf taking the compulsive vig inventor which makes them compulsive, which removes their factional kill.

[JacksonVirgo]

I’m not able to post in depth atm but if y’all are suspecting Elements, I think that’s a little silly personally but we can switch Kage with Thom so Kage can check Elements’ modifiers either confirming or creating a 1v1.

[JacksonVirgo]

complain that there's too many PRs for them all to be real?

Where did I complain that there's too many PRs? Because I'm not lock-towning the PR claims? That feels unreasonable, I believe what I believe and I'm not making plans that are beneficial to just my point of view but helpful even if I'm wrong, I've constantly made arguments that "if this is a 2-wolf world" etc just in case I

am

wrong because I'm not stupid, I just believe what I believe. I'm sick of doing this back and forth with you, we're bumping our heads together and I think we're both assuming things of the other that aren't true as you keep saying I feel ways that I don't? And just out of respect I'm going to just assume that it's a misunderstanding rather than malicious intent just for our collective sanity.

I am curious what you feel is a good strategy, I feel mine is fairly optimal for all worlds. I guess it needs updating now that Elements claimed a 2-shot. You seem like a mech-leaning player as am I so curious if we can come to the same conclusion on what's optimal

[JacksonVirgo]

Hm wait,

@Gypyx

you said that you scum-read Black. Why did you give Black an invention?

[JacksonVirgo]

my N2 was also spent on Black so no result from that one

Not your N1 but your N2. As your N1 was not you

[JacksonVirgo]

also that's a rough night for me, black and katsuki kinda were my top SR's

As you said they were your top SRs first thing

[JacksonVirgo]

There shouldn't be any more of the vig+bg so I don't think this is necessary, I believe we can just use it to confirm amount of wolves via her Lazy modifier. So best to send it to you?

I try and plan for the worst case scenario so we're stable nmw, we can confirm the amount of wolves without going on me and also securing us against if the wolves do still have the vig vender, which is a win/win. We just have to make sure to not target the same person and we easily confirm the lazy modifier (which was the reasoning behind it) + we secure ourselves against the known wolf PR.

[JacksonVirgo]

I'll wait for Gypyx to respond back to me before I respond to your proposal

[JacksonVirgo]

As like, what I just caught is pretty bad

[JacksonVirgo]

Acknowledging what you said, not ignoring you but I'm waiting on Gypyx so will get back to you on both of those posts

[JacksonVirgo]

Can I ask your thoughts on Gyp claiming to vend to their biggest SR?

[JacksonVirgo]

Hm, that's true yeah that paranoia is gone. We ballin'

[JacksonVirgo]

My thoughts on the ideal actions

1. Lim Enchant
2. Gypyx throws Macho invention to Kage
3. JV throws one of their inventions to someone that isn't Thom/Kage
4. Kage checks Gypyx
5. Hu Tao does what is obvious to do here.
6. Dave shoots Thom
7. Elements does nothing
8. Thom does nothing

I feel this maximises what we have, minimises the risk based on all the uncertainties. Kage getting the macho means that the possible suicide-vends stays off of our PRs / confirmed townies that can still do things. The whole logic surrounding me not trusting you is a non-issue as there's many reasons as to why you wouldn't lie about it even as a wolf.

1. If somebody gets a suicide-vig, they should shoot Kage 100% of the time if they claim to not have received one. This will kill them 100% of the time if they lied, so they won't lie.

2. The investigation I gave Hu Tao is incredibly likely unused or even if it was used last night that wifom is open, and it's a visit-based investigative so even if you do wifom. If the result goes against theirs, then you go down.

I think it's fine. Thoughts?

[JacksonVirgo]

If I've missed something (i probably have) let me know and I'll go looking, but why are we assuming all PR's are town?

I'm not, Kage is but apparently me not just assuming everyone is Town is "complaining"

[JacksonVirgo]

The only three people I am confident in are Elements, Hu Tao and Dave. Everyone else is up in the air.

[JacksonVirgo]

1. If somebody gets a suicide-vig, they should shoot Kage 100% of the time if they claim to not have received one. This will kill them 100% of the time if they lied, so they won't lie.

I'm trying to parse this. I think you mean if I claim not to have received the Macho?

Mhm, if you claimed to not receive the macho

[JacksonVirgo]

I can't really have thoughts on actions I don't know but I expect you and Hu are town and reasonably competent at figuring out what to do with this ability. Any additional info from whatever you two are doing is just extra on top of a fine plan.

Right, but if there's no apparent objections then we've found a decent middleground

[JacksonVirgo]

Dear lord, why did I go down the rabbithole?

Welcome to the rabbit hole

[JacksonVirgo]

Guess this is as good time as any

VOTE: Enchant

[JacksonVirgo]

Holy shit, I had elements at near lock-town. That's terrifying

[JacksonVirgo]

i got you invention jackson

Huge, as I said way earlier. I think realistically I should have used this one first but like I had no idea the game would go this way. Oh well

[JacksonVirgo]

Holy shit, I had elements at near lock-town. That's terrifying

What was that based on?

Kyouko and the fact that wolf!dann dodged two wagons he could have jumped on but didn't and then went for Kyo as the counter-wagon. I had a theory that scum was in that secondary wagon (ccS/Gamma) but he didn't wanna single out the wolf in the two so he went for a super wide swing.

[JacksonVirgo]

Wait

[JacksonVirgo]

Elements' claimed that she JK'd Hu Tao on N2. It was public information that Hu Tao received my invention on N1, why would Elements risk getting called out like that unnecessarily when the chances were that an invention received N1 gets used N2. I don't like that at all. I gotta re-address my TR on Hu Tao. The fact I just about lock-towned a wolf is scary enough that I have to rebase myself.

pedit: Yeah as likely chance dave had the vig and shot Elements

[JacksonVirgo]

If I was meant to receive the Macho modifier I didn't by the way (assuming I'd get told if I did)

Kage was supposed to get it

[JacksonVirgo]

Ima be honest with how hard JV has been pushing me as scum most of the game I'm struggling to lock in a TR on them, even if logic is making me think they're probably town..

What? I haven't pushed you since D1

[JacksonVirgo]

In fact I'm warming up to Hu Tao unfortunately

[JacksonVirgo]

by public info do you mean it was known day 2? sorry things are messy

Yeah it was known before Elements claimed

[JacksonVirgo]

Ima be honest with how hard JV has been pushing me as scum most of the game I'm struggling to lock in a TR on them, even if logic is making me think they're probably town..

What? I haven't pushed you since D1

You literally said I should be vigged last night :lol:

Purely PoE, aside from you and Hu Tao (who I actively town-read). The rest were Enchant who was getting limmed and then PRs.

[JacksonVirgo]

I wanted Kage shot initially

[JacksonVirgo]

Is there a list of claims somewhere?
Don't need to link me the post, just who sent it if we know so I can look it up/bump it.

Not a complete one but the post Gypyx claimed there was all the claims up to that point

[JacksonVirgo]

I'm wondering if scum jumped on my 2 scum theory to try and create conf bias for us to not think we were in ELo when we were.

I think it's fairly likely scum would be the people who let it happen passively and not push it hard like Kage did

[JacksonVirgo]

kinda think it's hu tao by PoE?

Yeah I came to the same conclusion, not completely PoE. I still feel it's awkward that Elements' guessed that they didn't use the action, was correct and then Hu Tao did this weak 2-second reaction test about it

[JacksonVirgo]

JV being adamant it probably wasn't 2 scum was potentially TMI

I just didn't believe a 2-wolf world was super obvious and nothing anybody said convinced me that it was overly impossible one way or the other so I went with what I felt was right and made theories that corroborated that. I figured if I was wrong, there's no harm in doing what I was doing so I full sent it as nobody else was and if I wanted to play optimally I should always play for the WCS. Which is what I did, albeit wrong on my stronger reads

[JacksonVirgo]

Detective, Doctor, Neighbourizer, Role Guard
Given in that order, except the last one is unused.

[JacksonVirgo]

Yeah I agree, I think I misplayed the order I was giving but I didn't know the game was going to turn out the way it did. I felt the others were much stronger

[JacksonVirgo]

Didn't think Detective was going to be some useless pile of crap

[JacksonVirgo]

since i'm mech cleared i also think we need to vote today

Mech cleared?

[JacksonVirgo]

Yeah I agree, I think I misplayed the order I was giving but I didn't know the game was going to turn out the way it did. I felt the others were much stronger

why'd you give out neighborizer over role guard this night though

Oh, that's a good fuckin' point. I didn't really think that much, I think my internal bias of the game is gonna end soon was making me think the choice was useless but you're right I should have

[JacksonVirgo]

I think i'm still somewhat cleared since it shows my modifiers in the order i own them, therefore my inventior action isn't compulsive and i could've performed the wolf kill if i wished to

I don't think it works like that but like I don't think you're a wolf either so what does it matter lel

[JacksonVirgo]

@Mod can we get confirmation that a lazy compulsive something wouldn't have to act with one scum left?

Well Lazy would mean you can't do it with one wolf left, so it's not that they wouldn't have to use that ability. They can't

[JacksonVirgo]

I mean, don't wanna be rude but you kinda gave wolves a free kill and as it turns out we're losing a vote over that ~_~

How did I give wolves a free kill?

[JacksonVirgo]

I do think Elements and Hu Tao scum slipped together so I don't really think the wolves are anywhere else. Which makes me all depresso as they were my top TRs, ugh

[JacksonVirgo]

oh my bad now i misunderstood how role guard works

i'm in my girlfailure era sorry

Oh it just is like a Watcher but sees the roles that visited instead. Which isn't all that strong but definitely more useful than a Neighbourizer at this point, I just didn't really think which would actually be better even though neither is really better at this point

[JacksonVirgo]

I do think Elements and Hu Tao scum slipped together so I don't really think the wolves are anywhere else. Which makes me all depresso as they were my top TRs, ugh

what's the slip in question?

Well slip is probably not the right word. Elements' guessed Hu Tao didn't act the night after I gave them the invention (and the invention was public info at this point). Hu Tao then did a weak, and tbh just completely fake, reaction test on Elements that lasted 2 seconds and then they gave up on it which gives me the vibe of "Oh town-me would be doing this, so I'll do this" but never committed to it at all. I feel that's incredibly likely to come from scum that knew Hu Tao wouldn't counter-claim them and then they had to attempt to distance from that. I don't see why Elements would risk getting counterclaimed by

two

people when they had the option to double-down on Dave to limit risk or to have JK'd a VT claim.

[JacksonVirgo]

Yeah I'm fairly confident it's just Hu Tao

[JacksonVirgo]

Katsuki unfortunately

[JacksonVirgo]

Gypyx and I both threw our N2 inventions to the aether

[JacksonVirgo]

Detective, Doctor, Neighbourizer, Role Guard
Given in that order, except the last one is unused.

Wait um. You didn't give me anything n2?

No, I never said I did

[JacksonVirgo]

Ok so. Someone gave me something n2 and isn't claiming it?

On N2? Gyp claimed to give it to black N1/N2 and then I gave it to Katsuki N2, you N1

[JacksonVirgo]

If you got a Doctor charge I must have fucked up my actions

[JacksonVirgo]

I doubt it

[JacksonVirgo]

Nope

[JacksonVirgo]

And this made it obvious that you gave me the invention here.

I was thinking maybe that was too obvious lmfao

[JacksonVirgo]

Role Cop (or something) on Elements N1
Gunsmith guilty on Black N2.

[JacksonVirgo]

I'm not scum here. If i was you wouldn't be alive lol

Except that's not necessarily true as scum hasn't had a factional kill that we can recognize at all

[JacksonVirgo]

I'm not scum here. If i was you wouldn't be alive lol

Except that's not necessarily true as scum hasn't had a factional kill that we can recognize at all

I'm saying I'd have given you the vig shot over dave

Why would you? I was hard town-reading you and elements

[JacksonVirgo]

If JV is town we were probably both kept alive in hopes they would mislim me

Since if we didn't kill Elements, we would have lost nmw we did today. It's probably safe to assume that if the wolves did some thinking, they probably should have acted based on worst case scenario of one of them dying and thus not getting a free win. I think that's a reasonable line of thinking, in which the worst case would be dave shooting one of them. No matter if Hu Tao or Elements got shot, I town-read both so the last remaining after getting shot surely has a leg up if they keep me alive as they have Thom and also Gypyx as a final swing because of my uncertainty around them. Assuming they're using me as the kingmaker, which like realistically if it is Hu Tao they probably did bet on using me as the vote.

[JacksonVirgo]

did we even make use of a single invention this game

Hu Tao claims to have used the detective last night and got nothing OwO

[JacksonVirgo]

Hu Tao you should probably claim what invention you got

[JacksonVirgo]

I feel bad going against my TR I had all game and if I flip this wrong I'm gonna feel so fuckin' awful

[JacksonVirgo]

But like it has to be

[JacksonVirgo]

I mean that isn't what Hu Tao said at all..

Oh what?

[JacksonVirgo]

Also I used a detective shot last night. And it was useless of course. I got Kage has never killed anyone

[JacksonVirgo]

I did mean useless info

[JacksonVirgo]

Also idm whatever you prefer regarding calling me Jackson or JV.

[JacksonVirgo]

Holy shit I had a massive revelation

[JacksonVirgo]

When this thought popped in my head I actually laughed, cuz it's the smartest thing. What if Hu Tao is attempting to sow doubt in the inventors by fake-claiming they received an invention that nobody is claiming, hoping it causes enough doubt that they cross-vote each other.

[JacksonVirgo]

Holy shit I had a massive revelation

inb4 worst take of the game

That's all my takes

[JacksonVirgo]

I mean we both threw our N2 inventions to the aether, if that's not prime real estate I don't know what is

[JacksonVirgo]

I mean this was after Gypyx said they had you (Thom) as the top town. Nobody is going to flip Kage given they claimed to have the gun. It'd probably be pretty optimal to do

[JacksonVirgo]

Lmfao, I do wanna wait for Hu Tao to claim what they got

[JacksonVirgo]

As I'm fairly sure if I'm wrong on Hu Tao (which I doubt), it'd be Gypyx because of the modifier cop results

[JacksonVirgo]

I'm currently under the assumption that it's just a red-herring as why would scum claim surface level pro-wolf abilities if they had them. That's the only thing making me think they're probably Town.

[JacksonVirgo]

Wasn't there not compulsive in the modifier cop results, which means Gypyx should be town because of the (assumed) No wolf kills?

There was compulsive in the results

[JacksonVirgo]

As they claimed to have a compulsive invention, that would trigger a false positive (assuming all wolves are compulsive ofc) OR they have those particular inventions as a fake-claim to protect against the modifier cop as the Godfather is the remaining wolf.

[JacksonVirgo]

OR they don't have that invention at all but like chance of that is so small

[JacksonVirgo]

Macho is a passive role according the the normal list

[JacksonVirgo]

I think you're Town, I'd be hugely impressed if you were wolf ngl

[JacksonVirgo]

As am I lmao, we love a setup based around inventors and both kinda had pretty awful actions lmao

[JacksonVirgo]

bloop

[JacksonVirgo]

I know Thom retracted this, but I don't think there's much more I want to say or do really

[JacksonVirgo]

bloop

Scumslip ????????????

Gotta keep the spirit of Elements alive, even if they were a wolf

[JacksonVirgo]

this game is just me going through multiple painful stages of learning more info and realizing i completely failed to play around it

Lmfao literally, I could have utilised my role so much better

[JacksonVirgo]

I just wanted to make sure we hadn't missed a slip up in the claims, not necessarily suspecting you.

The only issues I had with Gyp's claims she like immediately debunked which was a godsend, which is why I think that if she's wolf she deserves to win.

[JacksonVirgo]

I know this is probably meaningless but I just assumed 3-wolf team and my line of thinking has always lined up with whatever fit that world. I just didn't believe a 2-wolf team was really realistic as I've never seen one in this player size. Don't you think it would have been better for wolf!JV if I just went with it?

[JacksonVirgo]

What's the issue in question out of curiosity? Feels like i've had to recontextualize my role a lot of times lmao

I just feel like if scum are in the PRs, its your role because of how it just appears to not be pro-town inventions but they are as you've said in the context of the setup itself.

[JacksonVirgo]

We ball, VOTE: Hu Tao.

Again if it's you Gypyx, you're amazing

[JacksonVirgo]

I'm so so worried that its JV :lol:

Don't be worried, we're ballin'

[JacksonVirgo]

My nerves rn

[JacksonVirgo]

Not as weird as the potential of us losing even if we eliminate a wolf

[JacksonVirgo]

If any setup was that, it was this one

[JacksonVirgo]

i mean, the WIFOM was pretty tame once you understood the main gimmick of the setup

How much worse could you get it

[JacksonVirgo]

[JacksonVirgo]

I mean that wouldn't have worked as both inventors are lazy

[JacksonVirgo]

Is it not you?

[JacksonVirgo]

:D

[JacksonVirgo]

Oh lol, I was so confused by that

[JacksonVirgo]

I should have trusted myself.

To be fair though, both you and Katsuki were like on the ball at catching things

[JacksonVirgo]

I hated the way Jackson was playing since I repped in

:C

[JacksonVirgo]

I mean 1/2 of the killed wolves were from the wolves own kill power, which was the major mechanical threat of the wolves. It was more kill-power but it was in the hands of the Town, Town had the control over it for the most part and had mech to swing it against the wolves. Coming from one of the wolves, so might be slightly biased

[JacksonVirgo]

We couldn't directly kill nor could we silence somebody we needed to silence. It was all delayed and gave information that there's a reason the wolves are wanting them dead

[JacksonVirgo]

But also note that, for instance, had HT given the Macho to JV instead of you, the Village would have pretty much unavoidably won after toDay's mislim; so leashing the Macho would have essentially granted the Village an extra elimination yesterDay

I'm shocked Gypyx didn't realise I immediately rejected the idea of getting Macho'd myself. I immediately pivoted cuz that was a "nuh-uh"

[JacksonVirgo]

That seems a little uncalled for

[JacksonVirgo]

and he even puts it as his signature

unbelivable

How could I not