Open 575: Friends & Enemies-Together At Last (OVER)


User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1093 (isolation #200) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 12:16 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1091, Mathdino wrote:
In post 213, VictorDeAngelo wrote:Mala looks pretty damn townie off her opening posts. I think I should be able to metaread you fairly well now, so I last long enough I will see if your scum.
In post 356, VictorDeAngelo wrote: - Calling 262 coaching from Mala is a massive stretch. In fact I've spotted a few spots where I think there might be coaching but this is not one of them. Also roles that benefit from being lynched are called Jesters. You'll note there's none in this game if you checked the setup.

That said, I also don't like how Mala has fallen into the background. The last few posts have a distinct feel of holding back.

This, along with the scumgame of Victor/Mala which I'm not sure you've read, is why Mala is town.
Scum tend to distance each other early on and then either townread or outright bus. If you don't agree with that, well, that's what Victorscum does.

Victor, he practically buddied Mala early on and appealed to her keeping him around. The latter part of that first quote means that if Victor and Mala are both town and Victor can read her, it'd be in Mala's best interests to not kill him off so that way Victor can prove to everyone why Mala's town.

Then he mudslings her without anything really coming of it. Note however that his suspicion isn't sheeping other people's suspicion; Victor was (I believe) the first person to point out what he pointed out.

Does this read as scum to scum behaviour to you, or scum to town?


This is why you're reading things in a way that suits your reads. There are more ways to read this:

Victor gives a townread on Mala, stating that he'll be keeping an eye on her so that he can change that later if suspicion rises on her. The next post is consistent with his townread. Then he states some mild suspicion on her having to do with her abscence. He does that when it's safe, as Mala has little if any suspicion on her.

There is zero reason to think that those can't be scum-scum interactions.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1094 (isolation #201) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 12:26 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1051, Mathdino wrote:Mala played a scumgame with Victor; check my metacase on him. In it, Victor displayed the EXACT same nonchalance about being at L-1, except instead of someone hammering, he survived to endgame. Had I known about this at the time, I'd have offered to hammer as well.


Okay. Now consider Mala being his buddy. She posts, as Newbie pointed out, that she does not like the Victor wagon and she'd like him to speak. She does so 4 times. Then, when see sees that Victor is not doing it, she feels "fuck, he's being obvscum, like he did in that previous game" and buses him, not realizing that not everyone will think of that.

Her initial reasoning is "I thought we were at deadline", not "I am sure he is scum". She changes to this reasoning later. Yet she attacks Newbie for being sure he is scum, like she was.

Then today she completely forgets about acryon and attacks me out of nowhere, after listing me as nulltown in the end of day. None of this makes any sense. That's why I think acryon is probably the third, because this convenient forgetting about prior scumreads happens a lot for scum.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1095 (isolation #202) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 12:42 am

Post by Wisdom »

My points are:

A) The certainty on the Victor wagon is unnatural. Victor had done very few things for someone to think he is scum. Since there were more people that expressed such a thought and I can't argue all are scum, maybe I'm wrong somewhere, but this is how I feel and Mala expressing this certainty feels terrible to me.
B) The changed reasoning for the hammer. I would buy that she mistook when the deadline is and hammered to prevent a NL, because I've seen such things happening, especially from people who aren't that active at the time due to being busy and stuff. Yet this changes to "I was frustrated, I was sure he's scum, so I hammered". Why bring up the deadline mistake in the first place if that's the case? Why not give this as the original reasoning?
C) The hammer in general. Mala wanted Victor to post stuff, we were about to get a deadline extension, meaning he would get the chance to post, yet she hammers. The meta about Victor posting similarly in a previous game in Mala's prescence only make me more sure that Mala panicked about Victor being obvious scum here.
D) The shifts in reads. acryon completely disappears from her scumlist, despite being her focus yesterday. I suddenly become obvscum, while being nulltown in the end of D1. I can't accept "the flip changed things" either, because supposedly she was sure about Victor flipping scum so her twilight reads most likely took that into account.
E) The Mathdino manipulating. She makes it appear that Mathdino is having similar reads to her and arrived to those following the same thoughts as her, when Mathdino actually has different reads. I can't help but interpret that as her trying to push Mathdino into agreeing with her reads ("hey buddy, we think alike, sheep me")
F) Pushing Newbie for something she was herself doing, aka stating that Victor is likely flipping scum. I recently learned this is called projection and scum like to use it.
G) Her read on me. Town Mala should not be null on me for this long, let alone scumread me with such certainty. I understand this is meta and maybe not useful to you, but it factors in my scumread on her a lot.
H) Her general play this game does not give me the Mala-town feelings it should. Same as above in regards to meta.

I really wanted to see what Riddle had to say before I made this case, but it seems my catch up posts did nothing so here you go.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1097 (isolation #203) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 1:06 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1096, Mathdino wrote:So wait, did she hammer to shut him up, or because she panicked about him being obvscum? I don't really understand you here; what reason was there to believe that people would suspect her for not hammering Victor there? What reason was there to believe someone else wouldn't hammer him? Does she really bus like that just for the helluvit?

What I'm saying is, Mala was waiting for him to post something to get out of the lynch position, and when that wasn't happening, she bussed him because she thought he's so scummy that he's not evading the lynch anymore, so she might as well get some cred. The thing is, he wasn't really scummy, that was just in her mind, because of that previous game.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1099 (isolation #204) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 1:11 am

Post by Wisdom »

I don't have a case on acryon. The sole reason I think he might be the third scum is because of how Mala's scumread on him disappeared. Well, and PoE. Other than Not_Mafia and maybe blindmewithscience, everyone else looks town enough.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1101 (isolation #205) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 1:17 am

Post by Wisdom »

The general feeling I have about him is that everytime he comes to the thread, he posts summaries of things that have happened. I haven't seen anything to make me feel he's town yet.

Re: the deadline thing, that doesn't tell me much. It's a given she switched to her "Victor is flipping scum" stance immediately anyway. What's weird is she didn't state right away that she's hammering him because she's sure of him being scum but brought up deadline stuff.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1102 (isolation #206) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 1:21 am

Post by Wisdom »

Well his twilight posts towards Mala aren't bad. Don't really think he's her buddy.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1106 (isolation #207) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 2:19 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1103, Mathdino wrote:Now, if this were true, why would she keep this reason until being asked about it?

That's what I'm saying. Why wouldn't she state the reasons she is so sure Victor is scum in the first place? Why make up deadline excuses?
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1107 (isolation #208) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 2:22 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1103, Mathdino wrote:If Mala gets lynched and flips town, who will you vote tomorrow?

I can't answer such hypotheticals. If such a thing happens, ask me then.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1109 (isolation #209) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 2:28 am

Post by Wisdom »

Riddleton feels townier now because of his insistence about his mistake. I don't see scum going on about it for so long after their mistake got invalidated by the flip anyway. The only thing I.don't like is that he isn't doing much other than talking about himself.

There's also me seeing SW's scum game in the game I linked. I don't think it resembles her play in this game much.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1110 (isolation #210) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 2:30 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1108, Not_Mafia wrote:But you're fine doing pre-flip associative?

Sure? If I can figure out the whole scumteam I will. It's not like I'm telling you to lynch acryon because of preflip associations either.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1112 (isolation #211) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 3:02 am

Post by Wisdom »

Mathdino you never asked her to explain her read on me, as far as I can tell. How come, especially given the fact she even said that
your
posts lead to me being scum?
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1114 (isolation #212) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 3:17 am

Post by Wisdom »

No, because mistakes happen and I'd rather not have two townies dead served to scum in a silver plate. I want to see Mala responding first.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1129 (isolation #213) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 4:31 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1121, Malakittens wrote:Plus work and plus his read is bullshit and he admits that has has read me wrong in the past as town but still would likely flat out go hey hey I thought she was town after I tunneled her so I can still read her which I find highly annoying. He did incorrectly read me and read me right after I claimed, so yes hence bullshit because he can't tell town mala from scum mala


I read you wrong in Olympian Gods and I changed my read later, yes. Where other than that game have I read you wrong, Mala?
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1130 (isolation #214) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 4:32 am

Post by Wisdom »

Am I lying that I've correctly caught you every time you've been scum?
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1131 (isolation #215) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 4:33 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1122, Malakittens wrote:
In post 1120, Mathdino wrote:...

I didn't ask you where you got your townread on me, since that seems to already be a popular opinion as someone pointed out.

I asked where you got your scumread on Wisdom, and how my posts prior to #1033 lead one to a Wisscumread.



Read my posts correctly then. I stated that I had done the same work you did in terms of finding how VDA assicaotes his scum buddies. I just didn't wall it like you did because I had no intention of doing it plus I always like to keep some meta tells hidden (not that it would have been anyways)

Hence where my lynchpool came from. Not because I was sheeping your damn analysis but because I did it myself and came to the same conclusion.


This still doesn't explain why the Victor-meta analysis led to a Wisdom scumread. Go ahead.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1132 (isolation #216) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 4:36 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1126, Malakittens wrote:and now that I voted him it's somehow back

The fact you're apparently thinking I'm scum is a minor part of my case, yes, but that's not why my scumread on you is back.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1133 (isolation #217) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 4:42 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1127, Not_Mafia wrote:Can we just speedlynch Wisdom, his 'case' on Mala is that she hammered a read a he wasn't confident in and drenched it in pointless spam to demoralise town and make it look he is making an effort and being productive. He's also perfectly content to pointlessly tunnel when it benefits him but this confidence dissipates as soon it might come back to him

Oh? Show me where "my confidence dissipates" please. Also explain how any of my posts were pointless or were meant to demoralise town.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1134 (isolation #218) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 4:44 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1127, Not_Mafia wrote:This post is also nonsense, if he's said something along the lines of "I'm confident enough in my reads that I need to yet" not "I can't" which is just an excuse to not get off of this tunnel

Bullshit. I am not going to talk in hypotheticals. If I change my read on Mala, I'll get new reads and talk about them. If Mala flips town, the same deal.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1141 (isolation #219) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 5:23 am

Post by Wisdom »

My posts are not spam. I gave many reads there.

Why do you want to lynch Constantine?
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1142 (isolation #220) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 5:27 am

Post by Wisdom »

Also what do you not agree on about the Mala case?
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1146 (isolation #221) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 7:10 am

Post by Wisdom »

The VD lynch sucked, nobody who was voting him ever gave any good reason for voting Victor. I hated it and wanted actual scum lynched.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1148 (isolation #222) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 7:18 am

Post by Wisdom »

Townies make naked votes too, it's not anything to make a big fuzz about. Riddleton's case sucked, as I explained when he made it. There were plenty of ways to interpret Victor's actions as town yet he was not considering that possibility. Apathy is not alignment indicative.

So no.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1153 (isolation #223) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 7:35 am

Post by Wisdom »

@bork I'm explaining my yesterday behavior, not my current one.

@Newbie I don't get it. Didn't you say you agree with the Mala case? Why is it between me and acryon?
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1156 (isolation #224) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 7:41 am

Post by Wisdom »

And? Why can't both me and acryon be town? I don't get why you propose that there's a guaranteed scum in us two.

Did you consider Mala being scum?
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1158 (isolation #225) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 7:43 am

Post by Wisdom »

I still think the Victor lynch was a stroke of luck, so meh
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1161 (isolation #226) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 7:52 am

Post by Wisdom »

@bork

It wasn't, but Mala probably thought it was (see my conversation with Mathdino)
As for the cred, she wasn't in any need for it at the time, but if she thought a hammer is inevitable, better she hammers than someone else.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1165 (isolation #227) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 8:07 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1162, Newbie wrote:@ Wisdom, Yes. I considered Mala being scum, but like I said, just because you had a good point about not liking Riddleton's argument doesn't make you town. Weaknesses can be exploited in almost any argument, but doing so isn't always town motivation.

I still don't get your stance in regards to Mala. Didn't you say you agree with (part of?) my case on her? Didn't you point out her contradictions yourself? Yet you look like you're townreading her and I don't understand. Can you explain your thoughts on Mala in full?
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1166 (isolation #228) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 8:08 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1162, Newbie wrote:@mathdino I know people bus, but it doesn't mean that one of acryon or Wisdom wasn't trying to deplete the momentum of the VD lynch.

It's one thing to explore that possibility and another thing to consider it a
given
that such a thing happened out of scum motivation.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1167 (isolation #229) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 8:09 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1163, Riddleton wrote:Why are you so apathetic to the fact we've lynched scum, still insisting my case was shit?

Because it was? Everything in your case could be explained by town motivation too.

I can't say I'm not happy with one scum lynched, but it was just anticlimactic.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1170 (isolation #230) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 8:11 am

Post by Wisdom »

Well I hate walls, so I reply like that. It will prolly not happen again unless you post four more pages while I sleep.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1171 (isolation #231) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 8:12 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1169, Newbie wrote:
In post 1165, Wisdom wrote:
In post 1162, Newbie wrote:@ Wisdom, Yes. I considered Mala being scum, but like I said, just because you had a good point about not liking Riddleton's argument doesn't make you town. Weaknesses can be exploited in almost any argument, but doing so isn't always town motivation.

I still don't get your stance in regards to Mala. Didn't you say you agree with (part of?) my case on her? Didn't you point out her contradictions yourself? Yet you look like you're townreading her and I don't understand. Can you explain your thoughts on Mala in full?


I feel that one of you (leaning more towards you) or acryon are scum, and she has her vote on you.


And? That makes her town? What about the possibility you're wrong about both? What does that say about Mala?
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1173 (isolation #232) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 8:19 am

Post by Wisdom »

So tell me if I understand right; you thought that Mala attacking you for bussing while her own actions looked more like bussing was suspicious, but then her voting me changed your read on her?
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1175 (isolation #233) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 8:29 am

Post by Wisdom »

I'm not saying you're eliminating her, I'm asking if that's how it happened.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1177 (isolation #234) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 9:03 am

Post by Wisdom »

Why did you unvote me then?
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1198 (isolation #235) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 9:52 pm

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1179, St Constantine the Hermit wrote:We lynch people who were off the wagon the day after hitting scum
It doesn't matter what happened, what your reads are, that's all blah.

lolno, we lynch whoever is scum. Such rules don't apply

Why am I town? Why are you not considering me even though I was off the wagon?
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1199 (isolation #236) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 9:56 pm

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1182, blindmewithscience wrote:Is he turning out to be scum not make it lynching actual scum?

I was talking about why I was against the Victor wagon yesterday.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1200 (isolation #237) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 9:59 pm

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1186, St Constantine the Hermit wrote:Bussing does happen, but it is very rare, and mostly done by newbs.

Lol
I rarely not bus as scum, and I'm no newb. You obviously have no grasp of site meta so stahp.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1201 (isolation #238) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 10:07 pm

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1193, Malakittens wrote:Besides gut, VDA's meta research analysis and Wisdom being off the lynch and being abouestly hard-headed against it I wanna get him lynched.

Are those all of your reasons?
Gut -> You said I'm nulltown in the last post of D1, how did your gut change without me posting a thing?
Victor meta -> You have yet to explain this. Was it the single mention of me that Mathdino talked about?
Me being against a wagon -> You've seen town-me doing this a zillion times. When did it become a scumtell?
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1202 (isolation #239) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 10:09 pm

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1195, Malakittens wrote:I wouldn't be totally against a PL on SCtH, but if that was going to happen the best time would be this Day rather than later. I just feel that even though he's has a big ego that he's just defending what he feels and that not particularly scummy, but it's just that it's making him come off as an asshole.

Agreed. He's an idiot, but probably town.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1207 (isolation #240) » Sun Nov 02, 2014 8:09 pm

Post by Wisdom »

So does that mean I'm town now?
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1209 (isolation #241) » Sun Nov 02, 2014 9:03 pm

Post by Wisdom »

Will you explain what led to your scumreading me so confidently?
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1211 (isolation #242) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 1:54 am

Post by Wisdom »

How about you tell us why it's obvious
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1213 (isolation #243) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 2:25 am

Post by Wisdom »

Oh, but I want to hear how you came to that conclusion from twilight, when I wasn't even here.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1216 (isolation #244) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 3:16 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1214, Not_Mafia wrote:That's not relevant

So explain plox
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1218 (isolation #245) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 3:19 am

Post by Wisdom »

VOTE: Not_Mafia
okay then
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1223 (isolation #246) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 3:56 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1143, wgeurts wrote:I'll make a big post covering everything tommorow, I've got no access to a pc sadly.

Is this coming anytime soon, wgeurts?
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1229 (isolation #247) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 4:30 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1220, acryon wrote:it's insane to think the hammer is scummy.

Why is it insane? Why can't it be bussing?
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1233 (isolation #248) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 4:36 am

Post by Wisdom »

Eh. More likely non-savvy town than non-savvy scum imo. You have to be dumb to continue talking about it as scum when the scumflip gives you the perfect excuse to bury it in the ground.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1237 (isolation #249) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 4:44 am

Post by Wisdom »

Maybe.

The thing that does trouble me is that he's talking about himself way more than he is scumhunting.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1251 (isolation #250) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 6:25 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1250, Malakittens wrote:It was more of an associative tell with Victor than your play really.

You told Bork "Wisdom has been scummy all game".
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1253 (isolation #251) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 6:28 am

Post by Wisdom »

You can always explain your point
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1262 (isolation #252) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 7:10 am

Post by Wisdom »

Meh. Mala's posts actually feel town now.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1272 (isolation #253) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 7:55 am

Post by Wisdom »

Newbie, your opinion on Riddle?
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1284 (isolation #254) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:15 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1276, wgeurts wrote:Yes the scum could do it for town-cred however would gaining town-cred way up better than getting a quick easy mis-lynch?

Definitely. Scum will most likely get a mislynch at the end of the day anyway, but they don't have as many chances to get towncred. Scum defending a townie that looks like they might be lynched is something that happens all the time
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1285 (isolation #255) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:17 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1276, wgeurts wrote:Going over her ISO I also feel that her posts aren't genuine

But didn't you say that her motivations are clear (and town)? Did you change your mind while reading?
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1287 (isolation #256) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:19 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1277, wgeurts wrote:I'll also explain Mala more, I'm thinking Mala and not-mafia as the scum team now.

Don't think so. They voted me together, they defend each other.. it would be ridiculous if a scumteam was so obvious.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1292 (isolation #257) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:21 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1278, Newbie wrote:^
That's actually a pretty solid case.

unvote


I really don't understand how you're thinking.
Is it "I default to voting Wisdom until someone says something I can agree with"?
And I still fail to comprehend whether you feel Mala is town or scum.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1301 (isolation #258) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:26 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1280, Riddleton wrote:To all the 'savvy' players out there, would you consider reading the game and/or checking my iso? See #1076... I said there it's possible for scum-Riddle to have made a contradiction when trying to compile an erranous case on his partner.

I don't understand how people are so willing to conaider the issue resolved... it isn't.


:|

Again, you were saying that Victor felt like he didn't want to believe he was wrong. This pinged to everyone because you were accusing Victor for doing something only town does. It makes no sense that you were making a case on your partner, you wouldn't slip and say that he was doing something town in your accusation; that's because the knowledge you would have would be that he's scum, not town.

It
was
resolved, with the scumflip. I don't get why we're still discussing it.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1311 (isolation #259) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:30 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1289, wgeurts wrote:Actually wisdom could be scum with mala, they're both experienced and have both just let there push go. IF YOU THINK SOMEONES SCUM WHY WOULD YOU STOP PUSHING THEM?!?
It could all be a very good bus act, I must know however if the scum have day talk. Then it would make sense.
There's scum here: NM,Wisdom,Mala.
Further reads being made.


I'm kinda stopping because the most recent Mala posts gave me townvibes. Especially how she was talking off memory and mixed things up. That felt genuine.

I am not that sure about her just yet though.

Also scum don't have daytalk.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1314 (isolation #260) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:33 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1291, St Constantine the Hermit wrote:town will win by lynching the two people off the wagon and the last two people on the wagon.

When did you add the last part in? The last time it was only "we're lynching off the wagon, period"
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1316 (isolation #261) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:33 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1291, St Constantine the Hermit wrote:If Riddleton is scum, that means he hard bussed (led a lynch against a scum buddy), which is not only rare, but usually backfires.

Not rare.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1318 (isolation #262) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:34 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1293, wgeurts wrote:
In post 1287, Wisdom wrote:
In post 1277, wgeurts wrote:I'll also explain Mala more, I'm thinking Mala and not-mafia as the scum team now.

Don't think so. They voted me together, they defend each other.. it would be ridiculous if a scumteam was so obvious.

Mmm, unless that's what they want us to think.

Nah. It's WIFOM sure, but it makes much more sense that they aren't scum together. One of them, maybe, together I don't think so.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1320 (isolation #263) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:35 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1295, borkjerfkin wrote:
In post 1287, Wisdom wrote:
In post 1277, wgeurts wrote:I'll also explain Mala more, I'm thinking Mala and not-mafia as the scum team now.

Don't think so. They voted me together, they defend each other.. it would be ridiculous if a scumteam was so obvious.


This post fucking sucks


?
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1325 (isolation #264) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:37 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1309, borkjerfkin wrote:Anyway

VOTE: Wisdom

is absolute balls and I'm not explaining why


Do you disagree or what? I don't get it
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1332 (isolation #265) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:40 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1310, Newbie wrote:It's mafia. Nobody knows who's what, so I can't help jumping on/off a lynch. Wgeurts made a convincing case against Malakittens, and I wouldn't mind voting her.

I'm still not any closer to understanding your thought process :/
You have doubts about Mala, so wguerts makes a convincing case that you can agree with.
At the same time, you think Mala is town because she's voting me.
I lose you somewhere between those two.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1352 (isolation #266) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:49 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1349, Riddleton wrote:It's probably a scum reaction, bork.

I don't think so. He's just an idiot and hopefully he'll get replaced.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1355 (isolation #267) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:50 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1347, Newbie wrote:
In post 1332, Wisdom wrote:
In post 1310, Newbie wrote:It's mafia. Nobody knows who's what, so I can't help jumping on/off a lynch. Wgeurts made a convincing case against Malakittens, and I wouldn't mind voting her.

I'm still not any closer to understanding your thought process :/
You have doubts about Mala, so wguerts makes a convincing case that you can agree with.
At the same time, you think Mala is town because she's voting me.
I lose you somewhere between those two.


Why can't I just think it's possible that one of you are scum, but I'm not sure which one it is? :/


You can, but what makes you believe that? Why can't we be both town?
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1360 (isolation #268) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:51 am

Post by Wisdom »

Mathdino stahp feeding the troll
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1368 (isolation #269) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:58 am

Post by Wisdom »

@Newbie
This doesn't answer my question. You are acting like there HAS to be one scum in us two. Why are you not considering the possibility both of us are town and you're simply mistaken about both?
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1371 (isolation #270) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:03 am

Post by Wisdom »

What are the highly scummy things I've done? Pushing a wagon I felt was terrible? Pushing my scumreads?
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1372 (isolation #271) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:05 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1371, Wisdom wrote:
Pushing
a wagon I felt was terrible?

Objecting to*
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1379 (isolation #272) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:20 am

Post by Wisdom »

Yeah, I pushed people who I thought were scum. VD wasn't one of them. And?

The case you're linking has to do with my wgeurts push - I've explained my thoughts entirely in regards to why I was thinking he is scum.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1382 (isolation #273) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:27 am

Post by Wisdom »

Speaking of that case

In post 237, Newbie wrote:I find it hard to believe that Wisdom didn't see why wgeurts' behavior was extremely scummy, especially with that odd unvote. Therefore, Wisdom's questions come off as fluff and as an act of trying to look town by asking questions.


Why is that hard to believe? Do you think that everyone sees everything the same way? What you're saying here is that because I didn't see something the way you saw it, I'm scum. And it makes no sense how you go from that to "his questions are fluff" either. What makes my questions fluff as opposed to actual questions to figure out things?
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1385 (isolation #274) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:33 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1383, Newbie wrote:Notice how he didn't directly question him about it like acryon but directly asks him about the wgeurts lynch.

I ask who about the wgeurts lynch?
Also I did directly ask him and pursue that meta-question thingy because it felt really weird. I stopped when Victor's answers were satisfying.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1390 (isolation #275) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:44 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1386, Newbie wrote:Your questions just came off as fluff to me

I fail to see how my questions can be even interpreted as fluff. Can you link to questions of mine that you feel don't advance the game in any way?

But that's not even the point. You said "therefore, his questions come off as fluff" like this comes as a conclusion from the fact I didn't share your view about whether wgeurts was scummy. Can you explain?
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1393 (isolation #276) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:53 am

Post by Wisdom »

Because she was voting me, I bet
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1396 (isolation #277) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 11:12 am

Post by Wisdom »

I don't see the link

What is interesting about that? Victor flipping scum made me reconsider my reads on these two.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1397 (isolation #278) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 11:13 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1395, Mathdino wrote:NM's slot is town.

Why?
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1402 (isolation #279) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 11:24 am

Post by Wisdom »

Replace-outs are null to me. Definitely want to hear from the replacement.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1416 (isolation #280) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:35 pm

Post by Wisdom »

PLs suck though :/
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1418 (isolation #281) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:40 pm

Post by Wisdom »

Or he's just a stupid troll, that doesn't equal scum
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1419 (isolation #282) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:41 pm

Post by Wisdom »

Nvm missed your "if"
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1421 (isolation #283) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:03 pm

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1413, wgeurts wrote:However 30ish posts after me being town I suddenly become a possible scum, either me or wisdom. I'm town so if mala's scum I'd expect wisdom to possibly her partner.

I don't catch your logic here. Why doesn't you-town, me-town, Mala-scum work?
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1422 (isolation #284) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:05 pm

Post by Wisdom »

The rest of your case on Mala I agree with.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1426 (isolation #285) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:24 pm

Post by Wisdom »

That didn't answer my question though
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1428 (isolation #286) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:32 pm

Post by Wisdom »

My question was, why did Mala saying that either you or me is scum mean that this is actually the case?
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1431 (isolation #287) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 11:20 pm

Post by Wisdom »

Newbie 1534 is the only one after Olympian gods. I replaced in during lylo and Mala was conftown though.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1435 (isolation #288) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 1:07 am

Post by Wisdom »

I'd direct you to the last sentence of info in my wiki, but you cancelled your own argument so cool
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1443 (isolation #289) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 3:42 am

Post by Wisdom »

Do talk about me please, you threw a vote on me for no visible reason which you've yet to explain
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1445 (isolation #290) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 3:47 am

Post by Wisdom »

I'm part of every conversation
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1452 (isolation #291) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 4:15 am

Post by Wisdom »

I think I get what he means now. Don't see how it makes me scum though.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1462 (isolation #292) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 5:23 am

Post by Wisdom »

Guys, I get what you're talking about and I assure you I didn't think about that at all when I posted it. I also don't think that's the case btw.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1463 (isolation #293) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 5:25 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1459, acryon wrote:Wisdom is just town playing badly

How am I playing badly?
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1467 (isolation #294) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 5:30 am

Post by Wisdom »

No, I'm referring to what you're speculating regarding my suspects

prolly we should just talk about it openly, I doubt scum can't understand by now
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1469 (isolation #295) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 5:35 am

Post by Wisdom »

Mala or N_M should still be one.

bork was starting to look worse because if I understand his reason for voting me it makes no sense to think I am scum just from this, so it could easily be opportunistic.

But you agreeing? with him confused me, so I'm lost.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1473 (isolation #296) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 5:41 am

Post by Wisdom »

I know what you're talking about. I don't think that's the case.

The real important thing is, why you assume I'm scum for not thinking about that. It doesn't make sense.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1475 (isolation #297) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 5:47 am

Post by Wisdom »

What does the timing of the explanation have to do with that? He still found an excuse to hop on the wagon and that's what matters.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1480 (isolation #298) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 5:57 am

Post by Wisdom »

@acryon
I've only read your first paragraph, but I can already see that your case is a bunch of confbias.

@Mathdino
That doesn't change the fact that his "reason" doesn't make any sense. What's the scum motivation in doing what he says I did? I don't understand how you can agree with that.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1483 (isolation #299) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 6:00 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1476, acryon wrote:-299 he begins to go after SW for defending him. I’m all for looking into those appearing to WK you as scum, but the way he is going about it does seem a little too aggressive to be genuine.

Since when aggression is scummy? You're trying hard to find my actions scummy and it just looks silly.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1484 (isolation #300) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 6:02 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1482, Mathdino wrote:Edit: It's not scum motivated. What you did was an error, sure. But you would be a helluva lot more careful about it if you were legit playing town.
I, on the other hand, can't understand how you don't see what I see when you ISO those players.

Not really, in fact, if I was scum, I would be actively looking for such things and there's no chance I'd miss this.
I don't see what you see for the same reason I don't think they're scum together.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1486 (isolation #301) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 6:05 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1476, acryon wrote:-346 pings as he says he will self-vote over a NL. This is not town-motivated. Lynching a random person is better than a NL, but if you are town, then lynching what is a confirmed town to you is not better than a NL.

Wrong. If you are town and escape the lynch via NL, you'll just get wagoned again the next day and the town will lose another day. Besides, lynching yourself over a NL is more useful to town for the same reason lynching anyone is better than a NL - more information for the town.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1489 (isolation #302) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 6:08 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1476, acryon wrote:-In 610 Wisdom mentions masons maybe voting each other to muddy the waters, and this doesn’t really make any sense at all. Town don’t vote players who are confirmed town to them; they either vote scum or vote to pressure those they are unsure about. Very weird comment to make, especially from someone with a good amount of experience.

More wrong. Masons have in mind that scum are looking for them. If they are smart, they'll try to fool scum into making false connections and muddying the waters. As such, voting each other is not that unlikely as you seem to present it.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1491 (isolation #303) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 6:14 am

Post by Wisdom »

Ok bork since we're saying things as they are now.

Why the fuck would I post what I posted instead of noting to myself that those two are possible masons? Scum, like you're correctly saying, are constantly on the hunt for masons. How likely do you think it is to ignore such a connection and post something about it like I did? And how likely is it they'll just shut up, don't talk about any connections, and do their work at night?

Things are simple. I didn't even consider them being masons as I made that post, all I was thinking about was whether they make sense as scum together or not. Yes, looking back, I should have thought that that post could have helped scum greatly, but I just didn't. Because I haven't cared to look about who is mason.

So why are you pointing at this and call this scum? Do you think that I'm smart enough not to do this mistake as town but dumb enough to do it as scum? It doesn't make any sense.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1492 (isolation #304) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 6:17 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1490, Mathdino wrote:
In post 1489, Wisdom wrote:
In post 1476, acryon wrote:-In 610 Wisdom mentions masons maybe voting each other to muddy the waters, and this doesn’t really make any sense at all. Town don’t vote players who are confirmed town to them; they either vote scum or vote to pressure those they are unsure about. Very weird comment to make, especially from someone with a good amount of experience.

More wrong. Masons have in mind that scum are looking for them. If they are smart, they'll try to fool scum into making false connections and muddying the waters. As such, voting each other is not that unlikely as you seem to present it.

You've made a logical error. I'm not going to convince you on this so this is mostly so people don't somehow fall for this muddying argument. Consider:

Behaviour A is something that most of the time only masons will do.
Thus, masons are capable of avoiding behaviour A.
This means that doing the opposite of A does not necessarily make someone a mason.
Well guess what.
Masons are still pretty much the only instances of behaviour A.
You don't need to play dumb anymore.


That doesn't mean that masons have to be sitting ducks. Anything that might confuse scum is useful.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1494 (isolation #305) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 6:18 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1487, Mathdino wrote:
In post 1484, Wisdom wrote:
In post 1482, Mathdino wrote:Edit: It's not scum motivated. What you did was an error, sure. But you would be a helluva lot more careful about it if you were legit playing town.
I, on the other hand, can't understand how you don't see what I see when you ISO those players.

Not really, in fact, if I was scum, I would be actively looking for such things and there's no chance I'd miss this.
I don't see what you see for the same reason I don't think they're scum together.

Holy shit, you're actually going with "too townish to be town".

Wisdom.

There are pretty much no alternatives.

Considering the correct play for you would probably to start pushing acryon, wouldn't be surprised if that happened in the next page.


No, I'm going with masons shouldn't be this obvious. Especially since the players we're talking about are not some dumb idiot like Constantine.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1497 (isolation #306) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 6:20 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1485, acryon wrote:
In post 1483, Wisdom wrote:
In post 1476, acryon wrote:-299 he begins to go after SW for defending him. I’m all for looking into those appearing to WK you as scum, but the way he is going about it does seem a little too aggressive to be genuine.

Since when aggression is scummy? You're trying hard to find my actions scummy and it just looks silly.

Nothing is an absolute here. Aggression is not scummy. But
your
aggression toward multiple players who were town-reading you is. I already said there is nothing wrong with trying to out people who are WKing, but it seems that one of your primary objectives is making sure everyone knows why people are town-reading you.

No, I just dislike being townread because scum buddy me all of the time. Therefore when someone states a townread on me, I want to know the exact reasons.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1501 (isolation #307) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 6:22 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1493, acryon wrote:Doing that may make it harder for the scum to find the masons, but it also makes it harder for the town to find scum, and the latter is much more important than the former.

How? Do townies scumhunt based on who they think is a mason? That's plain silly.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1503 (isolation #308) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 6:23 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1495, Mathdino wrote:
In post 1492, Wisdom wrote:
In post 1490, Mathdino wrote:Behaviour A is something that most of the time only masons will do.
Thus, masons are capable of avoiding behaviour A.
This means that doing the opposite of A does not necessarily make someone a mason.
Well guess what.
Masons are still pretty much the only instances of behaviour A.
You don't need to play dumb anymore.


That doesn't mean that masons have to be sitting ducks. Anything that might confuse scum is useful.

Your logic disturb me.

No they don't HAVE to be.

But sometimes they ARE. If they display behaviour A, well, ya know what they say...

If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, and sits like a duck...


I agree, how is that relevant? The original point was whether masons muddying the waters is plausible or not. And I'm saying it is, because masons don't have to sit there and just exhibit behavior A.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1505 (isolation #309) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 6:25 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1499, Mathdino wrote:HAHAHAHAHAHA

You never asked me why I townread you for literally all of D1.


Didn't we already go over this? How is that relevant?
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1508 (isolation #310) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 6:26 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1500, acryon wrote:
In post 1497, Wisdom wrote:No, I just dislike being townread because scum buddy me all of the time. Therefore when someone states a townread on me, I want to know the exact reasons.

Can you point me to games where you have shown a similar focus on individuals that are town-reading you where you were town?

Any game you look at, that's how I react to being townread
I may grab specifics later, but I don't see the point.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1510 (isolation #311) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 6:28 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1502, Mathdino wrote:
In post 1501, Wisdom wrote:
In post 1493, acryon wrote:Doing that may make it harder for the scum to find the masons, but it also makes it harder for the town to find scum, and the latter is much more important than the former.

How? Do townies scumhunt based on who they think is a mason? That's plain silly.

Uh...

*raises hand*


Well, I don't. Let masons do their thing and hide and scumhunt normally.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1512 (isolation #312) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 6:30 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1504, Mathdino wrote:It's relevant because you're going with the 'too townish to be town' argument for all of your scumreads. Like seriously, all of them.

Umm.. no? I don't think Mala(except maybe her latter posts) or N_M look town, and I don't think anyone actually does. You're just speculating they're masons, that's different than thinking they are individually town.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1513 (isolation #313) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 6:31 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1506, acryon wrote:
In post 1501, Wisdom wrote:
In post 1493, acryon wrote:Doing that may make it harder for the scum to find the masons, but it also makes it harder for the town to find scum, and the latter is much more important than the former.

How? Do townies scumhunt based on who they think is a mason? That's plain silly.

What? No, but they scumhunt based on what other people are saying as well. If mason A votes for mason B, then that might convince townie A to look at mason B as scummy because of their reasons for being voted by A or even suspect A for their lack of reasons on B.

Well yeah, that's why they will most likely not seriously push their partners or make cases on them. But this doesn't mean that some mild votes between them can't happen, especially early game like the point here was.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1515 (isolation #314) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 6:33 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1509, Mathdino wrote:
In post 1497, Wisdom wrote:
No, I just dislike being townread
because scum buddy me all of the time. Therefore
when someone states a townread on me, I want to know the exact reasons
.

In post 1505, Wisdom wrote:
In post 1499, Mathdino wrote:HAHAHAHAHAHA

You never asked me why I townread you for literally all of D1.


Didn't we already go over this?
How is that relevant?

lol'd


Yeah and like I said, I was pretty sure you were town so you townreading me didn't give any pings.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1518 (isolation #315) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 6:34 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1511, acryon wrote:
In post 1508, Wisdom wrote:
In post 1500, acryon wrote:
In post 1497, Wisdom wrote:No, I just dislike being townread because scum buddy me all of the time. Therefore when someone states a townread on me, I want to know the exact reasons.

Can you point me to games where you have shown a similar focus on individuals that are town-reading you where you were town?

Any game you look at, that's how I react to being townread
I may grab specifics later, but I don't see the point.

The point is that I find it somewhat hard to believe that the vigor with which you were requesting explanations for those town-reading you would come from town. Specific games pointing to you doing the same elsewhere would certainly help me fight that disbelief.

alright, will do that later
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1520 (isolation #316) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 6:36 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1514, Mathdino wrote:Pretty sure by now that Wisdom knows he'll get lynched and is drawing the discussion out for the benefit of the last scum member. No daytalk, right?

dat tunnel
but yeah I don't really care if I get lynched, especially since one scum is already down. It's just funny watching you tunnel based on something that doesn't even make sense for scum to do.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1521 (isolation #317) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 6:37 am

Post by Wisdom »

So Mathdino, please respond to my 1491 since bork apparenly isn't doing it
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1522 (isolation #318) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 6:41 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1476, acryon wrote:-1084 is super weird. “The remaining scum is mala and most likely acryon”. What?? He had never even really mentioned me before that point and now I am most likely scum?

I explained this. Mala was deadset on you being scum on D1 and suddenly she forgot all about that D2. It pinged because I've seen scum doing this lots of times, conveniently forgetting about the prior scumreads on their partners. Plus I was really unsure on you at the time so you being the third scum looked likely.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1523 (isolation #319) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 6:42 am

Post by Wisdom »

And that's all I feel needed responding to from your case. The rest is "weird/could be town but makes sense as scum too/dont understand his playstyle" points that scream confbias.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1525 (isolation #320) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 6:44 am

Post by Wisdom »

Like I said at the time, it's not like I was advocating your lynch based on that. I simply shared the thoughts I had at the time regarding what the scumteam is.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1529 (isolation #321) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 6:55 am

Post by Wisdom »

1. So say I am scum. Someone proposes Mala/N_M as a scumteam. I look into that (or, more likely, have already done so) and.. post that they vote together and defend each other? How much sense does that make? Where does that help me as scum? Help other townies find out who the masons possibly are? The sole fact bork and you first thought they might be masons from my post speaks tons about this. This is not how scum approach this. They look for connections, they stay silent about them because the longer town don't know who the masons are, the better for them, and then they kill who they think are masons at night. They don't inform the town about connections. This is just stupid.
2. See 1. Also, scum don't push possible masons for obvious reasons. If I was scum thinking they might be masons, I would certainly not be pushing them.
3. See above.
4. I was not aware when I made that post, and not even when bork voted me for it. I understood what he meant later. Still, I don't agree that they are necessarily masons. People strongly defending their townreads even when they don't know the other is town, happens all the time. Much more reason for it to happen in this setup, where such things can mislead scum. So yes, I will ignore who is possibly mason and who isn't and scumhunt normally. Assuming you know who is mason based on personal opinion and adjusting scumhunting to that is stupid, imo.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1530 (isolation #322) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 6:56 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1527, Mathdino wrote:Do we really need to get a claim to prove your reads are full of shit? Because I think that's exactly what you're going for.

My reads are not full of shit, what's full of shit is your tunnel on me. But you'll realize you're wrong soon anyway, so
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1531 (isolation #323) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 6:58 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1528, Mathdino wrote:You know what, I'm really really sorry for this Mala, but I think this is necessary. If you want to lynch me tomorrow for pointing this out, go ahead.
In post 913, Malakittens wrote:Nah even If he flips town you'd never get a lynch on me

Either you didn't ISO Mala when I told you to, or you're scum dragging this out.


Yes, I saw this. Especially given this happened in twilight; why can't this be a VT drawing the NK? Why can't it be scum faking said vt (or faking a mason)?
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1533 (isolation #324) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 7:06 am

Post by Wisdom »

What statements/actions don't make sense to you that I haven't responded to?
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1535 (isolation #325) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 7:08 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1534, Mathdino wrote:Scum faking a mason would be dumb/unnecessary since all it takes to draw out another mason is a hardclaim.

Faking a mason doesn't mean that she will go and claim mason. It means that it will make people suspecting her reconsider because they'll think she might be mason.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1540 (isolation #326) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 7:11 am

Post by Wisdom »

I assume "behavior A" is mason behavior? If so, I don't agree. I don't see anything in her ISO that would make me think she can't be VT. What you quoted is the only one that looked like a softclaim, but it could still be to mislead scum like I said.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1541 (isolation #327) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 7:14 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1536, acryon wrote:
In post 1533, Wisdom wrote:What statements/actions don't make sense to you that I haven't responded to?

It's the ones that you have responded to that didn't make sense to me and I already addressed that. Your overemphasis on those townreading you still doesn't make sense to me as town. Your idea that masons want to muddy the waters still doesn't make sense to me as town. Your comment about the self-lynch still doesn't make sense to me as town.

The latter two are theory matters. You can disagree if you want, but that doesn't make me scum.
The former is a playstyle matter, and you can easily confirm it by metaing me.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1544 (isolation #328) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 7:19 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1538, borkjerfkin wrote:
In post 1531, Wisdom wrote:Yes, I saw this. Especially given this happened in twilight; why can't this be a VT drawing the NK? Why can't it be scum faking said vt (or faking a mason)?


Yeah that + the hard defending that mala & N_M have been doing to each other really points at this fake scenario


Just why would masons be so obvious?
Mala is not dumb nor newbie, if she's town it makes total sense for her to try and mislead scum with such a twilight comment.
People hard defending their townreads is nothing new. Constantine was saying I am 100% town earlier. Are we masons too?
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1546 (isolation #329) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 7:23 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1542, Mathdino wrote:
In post 1537, acryon wrote:Agreed. Wisdom-add the wack case on Mala as not making sense to me as town.

Mala shouldn't have had a case or a vote on her in the first place.

Yet at least 3 people suspected/suspect her today.
Do you not realise how stupid this is? Just because you think you found two masons (which you even began thinking due to MY post), you now think Mala is conftown and every suspicion against her is unwarranted. Absolutely nothing is confirmed.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1547 (isolation #330) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 7:24 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1543, acryon wrote:
In post 1542, Mathdino wrote:
In post 1537, acryon wrote:Agreed. Wisdom-add the wack case on Mala as not making sense to me as town.

Mala shouldn't have had a case or a vote on her in the first place.

I agree, which I pointed out in my overview of Wisdom. I made an off-handed comment about a possible, but
very unlikely
coaching of Mala to wgeurts, and Wisdom jumped on it. My goal was certainly never for anyone to vote her on it, more something to look at in the chance that a wgeurts lynch somehow went through and he flipped scum.

Well I found it likely. I wasn't feeling good about Mala so it was time to start scrutinizing her anyway. But no, it has to be scum motivated
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1549 (isolation #331) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 7:26 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1545, Mathdino wrote:Uh, no, Constantine claimed VT and started fishing for masons after taunting the town by talking about how obvious the mason team was.

Not the point; the point is there are people who hard defend their townreads. Mala is one of those people. It doesn't make her a mason.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1550 (isolation #332) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 7:27 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1548, borkjerfkin wrote:Considering you were willing to lynch him to save vic? Lol

Who? Because wguerts wasn't an option at that time. I wanted to lynch Constantine/Riddle over Vic, not wguerts.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1557 (isolation #333) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 7:38 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1551, Mathdino wrote:Yet you're basically unwilling to even consider the possibility that she's not town. I asked you who you'd want to lynch if Mala flips town for a reason, Wisdom (no it's not because I thought Mala was a mason, it's because this is stuff I can use later). You were unwilling to even consider that possibility. All of your D2 actions have hinged on Mala being the wagon.

Well yeah, I was pretty sure I had caught Mala-scum and I had made a case on her, so I don't see why I should be considering that possibility at that time
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1559 (isolation #334) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 7:41 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1551, Mathdino wrote:And honestly, Wisdom, the fact that she's the only one displaying that mason behaviour along with her buddy IN THIS GAME is kind of damning. The rest of us have either been attack dogs on everyone, or have explicitly or implicitly claimed VT.

I just don't deal in absolutes. It's not "she looks like a mason" = "she is a mason" for me. Neither is it "he looks like a VT" = he is VT". People are smart and try to fool scum. Or at least should be, I'm aware not everyone is doing it.
Consider the possibility Mala has been trying to fool scum while the real masons are people you think might be scum or even VTs. You're just going for the most simple answer.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1561 (isolation #335) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 7:44 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1551, Mathdino wrote:Edit: Wisdom. No one else in this game has been doing that. Except Constantine actually but he's obviously not a mason.

That doesn't say anything. The point is Mala does defend who she thinks is town, and certainly doesn't do that only when she is mason. Therefore thinking that such an action definitely makes her a mason without any other possibility available is stupid.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1562 (isolation #336) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 7:46 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1560, borkjerfkin wrote:
In post 1559, Wisdom wrote:Consider the possibility Mala has been trying to fool scum while the real masons are people you think might be scum or even VTs. You're just going for the most
likely
answer.


fixed

So you're telling me that the most likely thing is that the masons are so obvious that we have ended up talking about them inthread.
Nope, not buying it.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1564 (isolation #337) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 7:47 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1554, borkjerfkin wrote:
In post 1544, Wisdom wrote:
In post 1538, borkjerfkin wrote:
In post 1531, Wisdom wrote:Yes, I saw this. Especially given this happened in twilight; why can't this be a VT drawing the NK? Why can't it be scum faking said vt (or faking a mason)?


Yeah that + the hard defending that mala & N_M have been doing to each other really points at this fake scenario


Just why would masons be so obvious?
Mala is not dumb nor newbie, if she's town it makes total sense for her to try and mislead scum with such a twilight comment.
People hard defending their townreads is nothing new.
Constantine
was saying I am 100% town earlier. Are we masons too?

In post 1548, borkjerfkin wrote:Considering you were willing to lynch
him
to save vic? Lol


better?


My point wasn't whether we're masons.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1566 (isolation #338) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 7:48 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1553, Mathdino wrote:She's hard defended her townreads, sure, but does she typically pick a townread from like page 3 and defend them for the rest of the game?
Does
anyone
?

Or is it more likely that she'd be like "Hey, so I don't like this post, although I still think he's town"?


She actually did this, she questioned N_M's buddying on her as she called it. Check again.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1568 (isolation #339) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 7:50 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1555, Mathdino wrote:When it comes to the Victor stuff, well, read this page. I find it hilarious that of the 2 people trying to stop the Victor wagon, one ran a counter case and logicked it out, while the other dismissed it through misrepping:
Translation: Victor is scum for tunneling. Your case sucks.

Not misrepping at all. Riddle's case was a bunch of confbias, something like acryon's case on me.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1569 (isolation #340) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 7:51 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1567, borkjerfkin wrote:
In post 1566, Wisdom wrote:She actually did this, she questioned N_M's buddying on her as she called it. Check again.


Obviously irrelevant considering you were willing to eliminate them as a team in 1287 because of all the cross-defending, sooooooo


That's not the point here
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1571 (isolation #341) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 7:54 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1563, borkjerfkin wrote:So this has been one giant exercise in moving the goalposts, as we've gone from "I never even considered they might be masons at all" to "it's not proof she's definitely a mason because X other WIFOMy things exist to invalidate its definitiveness and I'm just considering them all therefore it's ok that i'm pushing them as scum independently of each other"


Yeah, and it has moved to this because you are somehow 100% confident you have found the masons and use that as any decision making. Meanwhile, I still didn't think about such a thing at all when I made the post, and it still doesn't make sense for scum to do what I did. Which you're still failing at responding to, so
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1576 (isolation #342) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 7:56 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1570, borkjerfkin wrote:Isn't it though? If it's pertinent to the mason discussion, why is it not pertinent to the scumbuddy discussion?

A single doubt from Mala didn't make their defending each other/voting together any less obvious for them to be both scum.
The point here is Mathdino arguing that Mala never did something like that, which shows the stupidity of this whole thing. He's so sure things are like that that he's even changing the facts in his mind.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1577 (isolation #343) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 7:59 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1573, borkjerfkin wrote:
In post 1571, Wisdom wrote:
In post 1563, borkjerfkin wrote:So this has been one giant exercise in moving the goalposts, as we've gone from "I never even considered they might be masons at all" to "it's not proof she's definitely a mason because X other WIFOMy things exist to invalidate its definitiveness and I'm just considering them all therefore it's ok that i'm pushing them as scum independently of each other"


Yeah, and it has moved to this because you are somehow 100% confident you have found the masons and use that as any decision making. Meanwhile, I still didn't think about such a thing at all when I made the post, and it still doesn't make sense for scum to do what I did. Which you're still failing at responding to, so


My job ultimately is not to convince you you're scum


Your job is to explain how something that makes zero sense for scum to do made you scumread me. You have temporarily made two people follow you, but they'll see they were stupid eventually.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1580 (isolation #344) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 8:12 am

Post by Wisdom »

I could look at Riddle and Constantine again. Maybe blindmewithscience. You, newbie, acryon and wgeurts are not people I would be lynching anytime soon.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1628 (isolation #345) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 6:58 pm

Post by Wisdom »

UNVOTE:
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1629 (isolation #346) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 7:01 pm

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1603, borkjerfkin wrote:

he just kinda runs with it. I'd have tried a subtle 'you are on the wrong track' nudge if I were a VT, especially if I townread TTH.

In post 1605, Newbie wrote:^
Yeah. That's why I'm completely confused. Nobody counterclaimed Wisdom when he showed that he understood what TTH was talking about, so I figured TTH was probably right about Wisdom as a mason. If he knew he wasn't a mason, I wonder he didn't deny it...


Are you listening to yourselves? Why would I deny it? Let scum NK me and fail if they think I'm a mason
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1631 (isolation #347) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 7:06 pm

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1614, St Constantine the Hermit wrote:There's also the possibility that wisdom is scum, but I highly doubt it.

dat wking
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1632 (isolation #348) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 7:07 pm

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1624, blindmewithscience wrote:I'm remembering him saying that he caught Mala's softclaim during D1 twilight.

Nope, I said I saw that when Mathdino asked me to ISO her
Even so, it didn't mean much to me like I explained
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1633 (isolation #349) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 7:09 pm

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1627, Mathdino wrote:Newbie confirmed town.

Agreed, this was one of the reasons I got a townread on Newbie, the way she thought I may be a mason felt really genuine.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1634 (isolation #350) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 7:11 pm

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1627, Mathdino wrote:He already WIFOM'd the hell out of Mala's softclaim. I think he thought she was a VT and as I said, went for TTH/acryon or figured it'd be make a whack case on Mala and tunnel her the entire day (like he usually does) to get a claim out of her or lynch someone who's good at reading him.

Scum don't fucking push who they think to be a mason, ffs. Start making sense.
What happened was I actually thought Mala bussed Victor.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1635 (isolation #351) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 7:14 pm

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1627, Mathdino wrote:Wisdom should've known damn right you were the mason team if he actually ISO'd you and did the work.

:roll:
The fact the masons this game were this bad and gave out they are masons on their own doesn't mean that's what usually happens. I've played in plenty of games with masons and usually there are not obvious behaviors to tell them from. Really, it's silly you keep believing it's this easy.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1636 (isolation #352) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 7:15 pm

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1627, Mathdino wrote:and Wisdom flips town, Newbie is scum.

Nah, doubt it
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1637 (isolation #353) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 7:17 pm

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1630, Mathdino wrote:Wisdom's been defending his trying to lynch himself all day.

Well I don't think scum are this dumb, so
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1638 (isolation #354) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 7:17 pm

Post by Wisdom »

VOTE: constantine
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1641 (isolation #355) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 7:20 pm

Post by Wisdom »

Masons. aren't. this. fucking. obvious.
Go and read some games with masons or something.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1648 (isolation #356) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 8:13 pm

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1642, Mathdino wrote:So the best assumption is they were A. VTs who all knew each other was pretending to be a mason, or B. 2 scum buddying a VT to oblivion and the VT doesn't care and decides to reciprocate?

No one other than masons display that behaviour. I agree that masons shouldn't be that obvious, but your "masons shouldn't be obvious" argument has been logically fallacious for a while now.


The best assumption was to let them do their thing and continue scumhunting normally without speculating about who is a mason and who isn't. But naaah we just had to out the masons
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1650 (isolation #357) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 8:16 pm

Post by Wisdom »

I'll also lol hard if scum had no clue who the masons are and Bork just gave them the answers out of paranoia
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1653 (isolation #358) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 8:29 pm

Post by Wisdom »

Meanwhile Constantine keeps wking me because he's this pro player that can tell I'm town amongst this chaos... not.

pedit: ninjad
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1655 (isolation #359) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 8:45 pm

Post by Wisdom »

You'll only get such a thing when and if I'm lynched
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1657 (isolation #360) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 9:06 pm

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1651, Mathdino wrote:and realised Wisdom was probably scum. His entire scumlist is literally the mason team.

Because, obviously, scum only scumread masons, not to mention inform the town about their thoughts on who they are
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1658 (isolation #361) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 9:16 pm

Post by Wisdom »

Oi wgeurts, here's an even better tl;dr

I'm scum because as town I wouldn't be so dumb not to realize who the masons are, yet at the same time I'd be doubly dumb as scum both to push scumreads on them AND out their connection in the game thread.

Bork thinks everyone knows who the masons are and reveals them, while in reality I doubt if even one person knew for sure.

Mathdino thinks that because he has a claim and things make sense, he always knew who the masons are. Also that masons are always super obvious and noone ever tries to mislead scum

Constantine is scum thinking he'll get cred with my flip

That's pretty much all
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1660 (isolation #362) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 9:18 pm

Post by Wisdom »

No, it's Mala, not_mafia and bork
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1663 (isolation #363) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 9:22 pm

Post by Wisdom »

I personally didn't even think once bork might be a mason while we were discussing, so I doubt anyone else did
Your problem is that when you see things that might make some sense, you disregard all other possibilities.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1667 (isolation #364) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 9:24 pm

Post by Wisdom »

wgeurts could you read or something? That's not what's being said.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1668 (isolation #365) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 9:25 pm

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1665, wgeurts wrote:Also wisdom I must say your arguments are weak.

Which arguments are those?
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1669 (isolation #366) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 9:31 pm

Post by Wisdom »

In post 1661, wgeurts wrote:Also Constantine is not scum, period.

Then why does he keep defending me for no apparent reason as I'm about to get lynched?
Why was he not considering me all day despite being off the wagon (like he said scum were) yet only pushed others?
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1671 (isolation #367) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 9:39 pm

Post by Wisdom »

My point is that you have a fact, post-flip, and you act like it should have always been obvious to everyone, when it wasn't even to you.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1672 (isolation #368) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 9:39 pm

Post by Wisdom »

post-claim* that is
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1674 (isolation #369) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 9:44 pm

Post by Wisdom »

Solely via PoE, prolly blindmewithscience
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1676 (isolation #370) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 9:48 pm

Post by Wisdom »

Maybe, but that was silly if that's the case, as you were pretty town and not really pushable
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1678 (isolation #371) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 9:51 pm

Post by Wisdom »

But don't really think it's acryon. His case and general attitude on me feels tunnely town. I expect scum to either be fairly neutral or WK me, in order to extract max cred with my flip. Which is why blindmewithscience and especially Constantine fit.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1681 (isolation #372) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 10:23 pm

Post by Wisdom »

Since you like doing that stuff, can you do the same for riddle/blindmewithscience?
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1685 (isolation #373) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 10:39 pm

Post by Wisdom »

How would that provide info? The masons are out already, so guess what else I could be
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1686 (isolation #374) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 10:40 pm

Post by Wisdom »

Also you didn't read properly. People don't just think those are the masons. Bork claimed they are the masons.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1688 (isolation #375) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 10:46 pm

Post by Wisdom »

No, I'm a VT. Why would you not believe the claimed masons?
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1699 (isolation #376) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 11:07 pm

Post by Wisdom »

Nah I noticed, don't care as I said
Good luck
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #1704 (isolation #377) » Wed Nov 05, 2014 1:18 am

Post by Wisdom »

You had my thoughts already. Constantine and blindme most likely. Outside chance on Riddle.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #2359 (isolation #378) » Mon Nov 24, 2014 3:58 am

Post by Wisdom »

acryon is trolling you, town won

wp bmws, you tried :/
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #2362 (isolation #379) » Mon Nov 24, 2014 4:01 am

Post by Wisdom »

ok im trolling, but acryon really should not claim scum before the mod announces it, and people really shouldnt be commenting before the mod announces it.
User avatar
Wisdom
Wisdom
Of the One
User avatar
User avatar
Wisdom
Of the One
Of the One
Posts: 51319
Joined: September 20, 2012

Post Post #2377 (isolation #380) » Mon Nov 24, 2014 5:02 am

Post by Wisdom »

gj acryon, thanks for the carry :) Sorry for not being better.

gg everyone.

Thanks for the game, reinoe.

Return to “Completed Open Games”