NY 188: Delicious Mafia II (Post-game chatter)

[Spiffeh]

Hi I'm here!

VOTE: ika have you seen Big Brother Canada?

I hated Ika.

[Spiffeh]

Townread on Salamence for pushing a quicklynch. I don't see scum making themselves so vulnerable to criticism like this.
Townlean on SilverWolf for post 130 because I feel similarly about Nosferatu.

VOTE: Nosferatu
Almost all of his posts are about how bad the wagon on redFF is but he isn't trying to make anything out of it. I especially dislike his response to Shinobi in
post 97 where he doesn't even offer an alternative to the wagon that he hates so much. He is unwilling to contribute a new perspective, so why discredit the wagon in the first place? Seems like an attempt to keep the game from moving forward.

[Spiffeh]

Also, if I was scum wouldn't I just happily jump on the wagon? I don't see why scum would even try to discredit a wagon at all, unless they were defending a fellow scumpal. I also don't like voting on D1, just makes me uncomfortable, so there's a reason why I haven't voted Shinobi yet.

Yes scum would do that to seem town. I know I personally make it my mission as scum to be off the Day 1 mislynch. That's why you caught my eye. I don't have a problem with you disliking the wagon but the way you went about it seemed like you were more concerned with distancing yourself from the potential mislynch than trying to find scum on it.

Why don't you normally vote? And why do you think Shinobi is scum?

[Spiffeh]

@Sala why did you expect this game to be any different? A little hard to buy when you seemed to know what you were getting into.

[Spiffeh]

@Nosferatu

Why don't you normally vote? And why do you think Shinobi is scum?

[Spiffeh]

Also, if I was scum wouldn't I just happily jump on the wagon? I don't see why scum would even try to discredit a wagon at all, unless they were defending a fellow scumpal. I also don't like voting on D1, just makes me uncomfortable,

so there's a reason why I haven't voted Shinobi yet.

You've already forgotten who you're pretending to scumread?

[Spiffeh]

So how do you actually feel about Shinobi then?

[Spiffeh]

I don't think town forgets their scumreads that easily.

[Spiffeh]

Apologies for inactivity.

I've only skimmed the last few pages and Nosferatu still has done nothing remotely pro town so I'm keeping my vote.

Gonna read more thoroughly when I get the chance and post substantial thoughts when I get more time in a few hours (or more).

[Spiffeh]

OMG Creede and Nos are so scum together amirite.

[Spiffeh]

@Wake @Creede
This was what my post 537 was about:

Although TSO is looking kinda suspicious, I really don't think he should be lynched over other people (like nos). For now I'll unvote, but I'm not too sure about voting for TSO.

UNVOTE: nosferatu

It was a half joke but it still reads as bad to me. Like how does your hesitation in voting for TSO translate to you unvoting Nosferatu? You even state that you think Nos is a better lynch. It doesn't feel right that you'd unvote Nos immediately after making that post.

[Spiffeh]

VOTE: Annadog40

Jeez how many scum are in this game how is no one voting her right now?

Just ISO her. She has zero actual contribution and her posts consist almost entirely of asking questions that don't matter and covering her ass on the "Wolfie" fiasco. Clearly she's reading because she has responded to allegations against HER but can't be bothered to post anything of substance about the game.

She was on the Nos wagon which makes me think he's town now but we'll see how he plays going forward.

[Spiffeh]

Why are people so hard on Grayfoxxxx, Nosferatu (I'm a little guilty there I guess), and Creede but are letting Anna skate by on arguably much worse posts?

[Spiffeh]

So you are reading Nos based on the fact that I am on their wagon? I'm still on the Nos wagon so the past tense is misleading.

Sorry my tense is wrong? "Misleading" is a bit of a stretch. Good try though, pinpointing the smallest inaccuracy and not responding to my valid argument. I figured I'd give an update on how I felt about Nos since I was voting for him previously.

Why are people so hard on Grayfoxxxx, Nosferatu (I'm a little guilty there I guess), and Creede but are letting Anna skate by on

arguably

much worse posts?

There you go

Oh so you apparently have the opinion that their posting is worse than yours but you only highlight this in an attempt to discredit an argument against you? Why do you only share this thought when you're in the hot seat? Anyway it's no longer arguable. You're a lot scummier.

GUYS I GOT ONE LET'S LYNCH HER

[Spiffeh]

Could someone summarize the case against Grayfox? I just feel like that would be the easiest lynch for scum to push at the moment.

[Spiffeh]

Annadog who are your top three scumreads and why?

Yes it's scummy lol

[Spiffeh]

@Mahonster thoughts on Anna?

[Spiffeh]

Annadog who are your top three scumreads and why?

[Spiffeh]

I know it's more difficult when you have to pretend to have opinions but you've had enough time.

[Spiffeh]

Does that mean whoever I scum read, you'll town read for now?

Is my vote on Nos the sole reason you are seeing them as town? If it isn't then what other reasons do you see Nos as town?

Nope. I think you are both scummy individually. I think you are scummier, and I don't see you two being scum together. I guess the possibility of multiple scum factions existing is something I didn't consider so it was a bit hasty of me.

I think you should respond to this yourself. Why were you so hard on Nosferatu? The majority of your posts before you shifted to me were about Nos being scummy.

You should know full well why I was hard on Nosferatu. You stole everything I said about him!

But yeah your case on Nos doesn't do it for me. Half of it is summarizing his actions without offering insight on them, and the other half is piggybacking off of what other people already said. This wouldn't be an issue on its own but coupled with your previous scummy behavior it makes me confident in my vote.

[Spiffeh]

I read your ISO and I noticed that you haven't made a reads list or typed your top three scum reads, why do you expect me to when you haven't?

This is fair. You (Annadog40) and Nosferatu are two that I feel I've said my piece on already. The third would probably be Kop. I agree with redFF about Kop, and I also thought that his entry post was really weird. Why explain the cons of a quicklynch when obviously that isn't going to be what happens today? That's his only post until three hours later. Like why go into a 500 post game with that as your first post? It's just a universal truth that "seems" towny but isn't helpful.

I finally checked a past completed town game of Grayfox and he was a lot more vocal. But he also made a lot of naked votes, so it seems to boil down to "he is less active" which is a null tell to me. Anything else I'm missing? I definitely feel we have better targets.

Anyway, Silverwolf, ika, and Skybird welcome to my townlist!!!

Gonna read some more ISO's and post my thoughts on others later.

[Spiffeh]

@Skybird what are some examples of Annadog's posting getting better?

[Spiffeh]

@Lapsa

But yeah your case on Nos doesn't do it for me. Half of it is summarizing his actions without offering insight on them, and the other half is piggybacking off of what other people already said. This wouldn't be an issue on its own but coupled with your previous scummy behavior it makes me confident in my vote.

First of all, thievery was not my main issue. I even said that it's not scummy on it's own; I think it's only natural for townies to be convinced by well presented cases. But not having original contribution COMBINED with her other scummy behaviors is my problem.

And your vote for Kop is what made me look back at him and notice how bad his entrance post was, as I have outlined. So no I didn't just parrot your case nice try!!!

What do you think of Annadog?

[Spiffeh]

SW please don't leave you're like one of my only townreads itg (especially now that you claimed). Also why did you claim?

Annadog needs to be lynched by the way. The fact that barely anyone is addressing her makes me think that her teammates are trying to ignore her and push a different wagon (aka Grayfox).

Nos is getting townier imo.

I think Wake is scum but that's for another post when I have more time.

[Spiffeh]

That's not because two people just voted for him I swear.

[Spiffeh]

Wake's early posting was fine but as the game progressed there are just a lot of things I like to call "words without substance" statements that are starting to become more and more present in his posts. Some examples:

I'm inclined to agree with this, assuming the person joining the vote isn't giving a reason, or a weak or very similar one. HOWEVER, if two players are voting someone for nearly the same reason, it'd help if voter #2 at least gave his or her own reasons, instead of just saying 'what he said,' or a brief line that encapsulates exactly what voter #1's reasons were.

If someone's sheeping here, they should talk more, so we can better break down where that individual lies, by checking a lot of his or her thoughts.

We can assume there is at least one anti-Town entity in the game. That much is certain.

Without evidence, we can't say it's for sure multiball, but we shouldn't automatically assume it's singleball, either.

Especially when you try to imply others are Town based off of that assumption.

It may be that SW is a Serial Killer, and Redff is Blue Scum. Or, the two could be any combination of three possible non-aligned scum forces. THEN AGAIN, and I know some may incorrectly call this WIFOM but I want us to use logic here, they could both be on the same scum team. One could be Town; they could both be Town.

What I'm trying to say is we shouldn't start implying people are Town on the faulty assumption that this is singleball. It is way too early to start making conclusions.

Setup speculation: #1 way scum can be vocal without having to actually make stances. He could have just said the bolded; the whole post was unnecessary and seems like an attempt to appear contributing when it's just saying a whole lot of nothing.

Engaging is productive. Shinobi engaging with me was productive, in that I feel I can trust him just a touch more. Your refusal to really talk with me about the game isn't automatically going to make me distrust you, but it's not going to help me trust you, either. We should be active and talking and sharing our thoughts and challenging each other. By not doing that with me, even if it's to utterly uproot my points, deprives Town of information to utilize. If there were only two options, one being you completely destroying my points openly by posting, or two saying it's irrelevant and saying it's not productive, I'd rather you choose the former.

[0001] Gamestate At the present moment, I'm not certain what the Setup is. Unlike TSO, I don't think it is prudent to assume one way or another right now. I think we should keep the possibilities open in the back of our minds. It may be singleball, or it may be two 3-player Scum teams with Daytalk and a Serial Killer. Without further evidence, we cannot deduce further. What must not be done, is assuming the Setup is one way, and then deciding someone's alignment based on that assumption. It's a Closed Setup, with an unknown number and quantity of Scum factions, and, iirc, this game may not even be balanced. It could be sort of like my Freshwater Frenzy, which made full use of the new guidelines. Whatever the case, let's... let's keep an open mind and err on the side of caution. My nature is to suspect the worst and, even if it's not nearly as bad, player under those worst of conditions. Meaning, should we win and it not be the worst case scenario, splendid.

More setup spec.

All of these posts serve no purpose other than to take up room and contribute to Wake's protown resume without him actually doing anything beneficial to the town. Wake is such a strong believer in engagements between players but his "engagements" have yielded no results in the form of reads or votes. I could not tell you where Wake's head is at right now, which worries me for someone who talks such a big game. Even when I actually see him engage with other players I don't think it's fruitful to the discussion and seem like throwaway questions more than scumhunting (looking at post 460 here).

So since no one is wagoning Annadog for reasons I am unaware of I'll hop on the Wake wagon.
VOTE: Wake

[Spiffeh]

Spiffeh, let me play devil's advocate for just a moment. If Anna was scum, why would she post so strangely? I don't see the scum motivation to drawing that much negative attention to oneself. On the other hand, is there town motivation behind doing that either.

Why would Grayfox so blatantly not be playing his town meta if he was scum?
"Why would this person act so scummy if they were scum?"

Anything can be boiled down to a WIFOM argument which is why they hold no weight. Is this really your basis for not scumreading Annadog?

[Spiffeh]

To be fair I haven't ISO'd TSO yet. But from what I recall TSO's setup spec came from a stream of conscious set of posts where he also gave his thoughts on multiple players. I have yet to see Wake make any stances on players.

[Spiffeh]

Anna is still null to me. I'm talking with her in the hood in hopes to get a better handle on whether she is scum or town. I asked you this question because I am trying to determine if you really felt she was scum or if you were hopping on a convenient wagon.

What have you determined? Like Kop said (why do you keep speaking for me?) I was pretty much the first one to point Anna out so there wasn't really a wagon to jump on.

[Spiffeh]

How likely do people think that there is one scum in each neighborhood?

If we think that is likely, wouldn't it be useful to out them?

[Spiffeh]

I am unfamiliar with neighborhoods and how often scum are in them, which is why I want the general consensus.

I know that if we believe that there is a scum in each one (as SW said there was precedent for) then it would be more beneficial to out them because only townies would be left in the dark.

[Spiffeh]

Wake do you have any reads other than TSO and Annadog?

I agree that the existence of SW's role implies there are scum in the neighborhoods.

[Spiffeh]

Grayfox your lurking is really concerning do you have anything else to add? Like clearly you're paying attention but you still contribute next to nothing.

[Spiffeh]

How do you feel about your wagon?

[Spiffeh]

^@Grayfox

[Spiffeh]

Ok yeah Grayfox is also scum.

[Spiffeh]

@Wake

Wake do you have any reads other than TSO and Annadog?

@Wake

Grayfox your lurking is really concerning do you have anything else to add? Like clearly you're paying attention but you still contribute next to nothing.

[Spiffeh]

Do you think lurking in itself is indicative of being Scum?

If lurking gets to the point of never sharing opinion/participating in a fruitful discussion then yes. Grayfox made it clear that he was paying attention with post 970 but made no effort to share his thoughts. Others have stated that he's not playing his town meta and that he is usually a lot more helpful and invested. I have confirmed this for myself. So I would be fine if he was lynched today.

[Spiffeh]

Eh you know what
VOTE: Grayfoxxxx

[Spiffeh]

That ^^^^

[Spiffeh]

Can you elaborate on why her responses are scummy now? And what kind of questions are you asking?

[Spiffeh]

Out of all the votes on me, this is the worst. Its opportunistic. Ive posted alot more today, compared to before the thread was locked.

Me and spiff started interacting less than 2 hours ago, after I speed up a little, he votes me for lurking (I guess?). Seems a little like going through the motions, just to eventually vote me anyway.

Vote for me then. Odd how you don't vote me here when you seemingly have a reason but you wagon Wake later on with absolutely no reasoning. You try to discredit a vote on you and then hop on the wagon of someone else to get the heat off yourself.

You're lucky Annadog is acting so scummy that it might save you today!

Still think Wake is scummy but the wagon that cropped up on him out of nowhere worries me.

@Wake I'm not on your wagon now but made my vote for you clear in post 948.

Ugh Grayfox's spat with TSO is making me second guess my scum read on him. I'm still worried that this only came out after his wagon seemed to become more serious but it's enough for me to prefer an Annadog lynch over him.

VOTE: Annadog20
Seriously @Skybird @Fro99er did something go down in your neighborhood with Annadog? Because you guys both switched from "Annadog is just antitown" to "Annadog is scum" pretty suddenly.

I kind of feel like texcat is getting by without much involvement in any major events today so I'd like more from her.

[Spiffeh]

@Annadog why were you so against having your neighborhood revealed?

BTW I'm in a neighborhood with Shinobi and Boonskiies yay

[Spiffeh]

Ozgin in your read of me you said you could see Wake as scum from a post of mine but then you call him town in the next line.

Annadog is null town and you say that you're not lynching her today. Why don't you give this distinction to your other null town reads? Even your town reads don't get this line. What makes Annadog special?

Idk the lack of consistency makes me think you made the reads more to placate those suspicious of you instead of to find scum.

But it's cool we'll lynch your scumbuddy Annadog first.

[Spiffeh]

It's weird to me that Fro99er and Skybird have both confirmed Anna's extremely scummy behavior in the neighborhood, and her performance in the thread is anti-town AT BEST, but people are still town reading her. The fact that Grayfox is almost universally scum-read and it's taking both of Anna's neighbors to vocalize her scumminess for her to get on people's radars makes the latter a better lynch today imo.

[Spiffeh]

@Annadog why were you so against having your neighborhood revealed?

BTW I'm in a neighborhood with Shinobi and Boonskiies yay

Also 50 pages lol

[Spiffeh]

Quaroath what do you think of Annadog?

[Spiffeh]

@Annadog why did you ignore your neighbors' questions in the neighborhood?

[Spiffeh]

@texcat I'll explain after she answers the question.

After everything everyone has brought up about him, I'm also fine with an Ozgin lynch.

[Spiffeh]

Ugh Annadog is a far superior lynch today.

I have liked Grayfoxxxx's posts recently.

[Spiffeh]

Seriously the amount of inconsistencies pointed out by multiple people about Ozgin just makes me think anyone claiming to not have suspected him either needs to get over themselves or be lynched as scum.

@Wake why aren't you voting for Annadog then? She was a scumlean for you earlier I believe and she's one of the only viable lynch targets. I know she's probably your scum buddy but you should really bus her sooner or later.

[Spiffeh]

@TSO what about Quoroath's case on Ozgin didn't you like and what specifically on page 50 made you think Ozgin was town/

[Spiffeh]

Don't know where we are in the VC and still want to hear from Anna before she gets hammered so
UNVOTE: Annadog40 for now.

[Spiffeh]

@Annadog

@Annadog why did you ignore your neighbors' questions in the neighborhood?

[Spiffeh]

@Annadog What was your response?

[Spiffeh]

Please explain why sharing your thoughts in the thread is bad for you.

[Spiffeh]

I want to see if your actions described by your neighbors could possibly come from town.

[Spiffeh]

I'd still like her to share her thoughts on who she wants lynched today.

[Spiffeh]

Boonskiies and Shinobi

please check our neighborhood.

[Spiffeh]

I'm starting to think all the currently viable lynch targets are town.

[Spiffeh]

I will read his ISO along with others that I haven't paid much attention to and get back to you.

[Spiffeh]

Real quick I'm down for a Shinobi wagon.

I think he may have scumslipped in our neighborhood (which is why I directed him and Boon to the neighborhood) and I feel like all of his question-asking haven't yielded many results in the form of reads or votes.

VOTE: Shinobi

[Spiffeh]

Fro99er you automatically declaring Shinobi town without even hearing the scumslip is weird af. Why defend him so early without hearing me out?

Anyway I might just be overly paranoid. I'll see what Boon thinks about it before I make a fool of myself and bring it here.

I am still not entirely thrilled with Shinobi's performance recently so I'll leave my vote here for now.

[Spiffeh]

Well.
If it's a performance issue that you have then I'm down for discussing it with you.
What seems to be the issue, precisely?

Like I said, you ask a lot of good questions but I never see follow up or anything made of them, which makes me think they're asked to make you look like you're engaging without really working anything out from them. Plus you seem to be supporting a lot of the wagons for information but again don't really make any reads or insights based on these, but are always happy to hop on the next one! This is why I am voting for you.

This is a fair point. I tend to rely on meta a lot. Maybe too much sometimes. But that actually felt like a town!shinobi reaction. When he was scum, he kept asking me to prove my case on him and explain things and blah blah. He totally played it cool there, which didn't seem like scum!Shin. But I'll hear you out.

:-/ but I get it in regards to the hood. I just feel it's a bit wrong to ask me why I consider shinobi town without hearing your case, then you won't tell me your case. It's like I'm not allowed to have an opinion on Shinobi at all until you explain things, unless it's a scum opinion. That's basically putting me (and everyone else) in limbo about Shinobi, and then you are free to question me/us for townreading him at your leisure.

Yeah I guess that's fair, but I still feel it was a bit hasty of you to declare him town without hearing it. I would expect a townie to withhold their judgement until they heard the slip. Whether you know about it now is irrelevant. If you were his scumbuddy this may be a good way to protect him by discrediting me as soon as possible.

But yeah it was mostly just a weird phrasing used at a weird time (in my opinion) that I thought may have been meant for his scum chat and not the neighborhood. It could go both ways I think. If Boon thinks it holds any merit I'll clarify.

[Spiffeh]

Pedit: how did Shinobi possibly scumslip? I've been pretty solid town on him, so an actual scumslip would change my view of the game state.

Shin's probably town. That reaction is not scum!Shinobi reaction.

When he was scum in Refraction just last month, he kept asking me to prove my case on him and why and why. And why and why!

No it's the way you threw it in there right after you asked what the scumslip was. Naturally, you expected me to share what the slip was, so why throw in an "oh btw Shinobi is town"? I don't have a problem with you town reading him-it's just your timing was interesting. Or scummy. I don't really know.

[Spiffeh]

I agree that Anna needs to contribute more, but Skybird and Fro99er seem to have moved on from her which makes me think she's satisfied them in the neighborhood. So I do disagree that Anna should be lynched.

Could you quote SW's list? I can't find it in her ISO

[Spiffeh]

People I'm more willing to lynch than Grayfox: Kop, Fro99er, Lapsa, probably TSO, probably Salamence, maybe Red.

Kop I want you to tell me what information SPECIFICALLY that we will get from a Grayfox lynch. I hate how you hop in conveniently and vote for Gray because it's the "best case scenario" or w/e without EVER giving your thoughts on who you think scum is. It seems like you didn't even try to read him. I think he has been acting super villagey in recent posts.

VOTE: Kop because why not?

Shinobi wasn't even that bad I guess he defended himself fine. The slip was more a timing thing than anything. Like he said "Welp, that's settled" 24 hours after I had even outed the neighborhood and he had confirmed in the thread. So what's the "welp" for when we all agreed it would happen and why 24 hours later?

Probably just me being paranoid.

[Spiffeh]

Skybird who other than Gray do you think is scum?

[Spiffeh]

I feel like I've read almost everyone as scum at one point or another you guys should all stop being scummy.

[Spiffeh]

I get that Grayfox is the "no risk" lynch but it's super bad when people like Kop come in and hop on that wagon saying it will give us information when he hasn't read or voted for anyone like the whole day. All of a sudden he has an opinion when the easy wagon is almost at a lynch.

Grrrrrrrr

Skybird who other than Grayfox do you think is scum and why?

[Spiffeh]

I'm not a fan of claiming too early, unless your pretty much bang on to be lynched. He claimed well before votes were drawing onto him.

I'm not saying that he is scum based on that,

I played in a game with Gray a month or so ago, and I think he got the same attention, and in the end he was policy lynched due to it being near the deadline. I feel that the same is happening again here

, I would actually like to see him input some reads, and some of his thoughts instead of ramming his VT claim out there in hope that we believe that.

I think this implies that you think he is town here. If I'm wrong please clarify.

I've tried to read him, but I can't get a real feeling about him, there is always going to be that doubt at the back of my mind,

early in the game, I thought scum

, his posts, votes had no substance, tried to look like he was contributing, whilst he has started to get into the game

But here it looks like you thought he was scum early on?

If Grayfox flip town, who do you think is scum?
If Grayfox flips scum, who do you think is scum?

[Spiffeh]

I'm trying to work things in my head, one side of my brains screaming town, while the other side is screaming scum, I can't get onto neutral ground regarding Gray. He's not exactly done a lot of things that screams from the rooftops that he is town and I am wrong to doubt.

Ugh this seems like a super cop-out (Kop-out?) answer to me. I have no problem with not being able to read some one and going back and forth on said read. I do that all the time. But I really only see scum being that inconsistent with a read; not remembering how you read Gray early on is spooky.

You also have a lot of "filler" posts that comment on the strategies of players rather than the players themselves, which is an easier, less risky way for scum to pretend to be involved.

[Spiffeh]

ANNADOG POST YOUR THOUGHTS SO YOU DON'T GET LYNCHED TODAY PLEASE

[Spiffeh]

SW I promise I will help you lynch all these baddies

[Spiffeh]

Guys please vote for Kop.

[Spiffeh]

He is nonexistent in both the neighborhood and the thread.

What do you think of Kop?

[Spiffeh]

Wake I want to know how SW's role could possibly be aligned with scum. And if it was, why would she share it with us?

[Spiffeh]

Then he can be vig'd or something. I am more confident in lynching someone who has been posting like scum than a lurker for now. So please tell me how you feel about Kop.

I'm cool for a wagon on Boon to get him talking but I don't want Kop to go away as an option for lynch today.

[Spiffeh]

Sure but could you both get Anna to post something of substance in here because a lot of people are still stuck on her and her lack of contribution is distracting.

[Spiffeh]

Case on Kop. Happy wagoning!

People I'm more willing to lynch than Grayfox: Kop, Fro99er, Lapsa, probably TSO, probably Salamence, maybe Red.

Kop I want you to tell me what information SPECIFICALLY that we will get from a Grayfox lynch. I hate how you hop in conveniently and vote for Gray because it's the "best case scenario" or w/e without EVER giving your thoughts on who you think scum is. It seems like you didn't even try to read him. I think he has been acting super villagey in recent posts.

VOTE: Kop because why not?

Shinobi wasn't even that bad I guess he defended himself fine. The slip was more a timing thing than anything. Like he said "Welp, that's settled" 24 hours after I had even outed the neighborhood and he had confirmed in the thread. So what's the "welp" for when we all agreed it would happen and why 24 hours later?

Probably just me being paranoid.

I'm not a fan of claiming too early, unless your pretty much bang on to be lynched. He claimed well before votes were drawing onto him.

I'm not saying that he is scum based on that,

I played in a game with Gray a month or so ago, and I think he got the same attention, and in the end he was policy lynched due to it being near the deadline. I feel that the same is happening again here

, I would actually like to see him input some reads, and some of his thoughts instead of ramming his VT claim out there in hope that we believe that.

I think this implies that you think he is town here. If I'm wrong please clarify.

I've tried to read him, but I can't get a real feeling about him, there is always going to be that doubt at the back of my mind,

early in the game, I thought scum

, his posts, votes had no substance, tried to look like he was contributing, whilst he has started to get into the game

But here it looks like you thought he was scum early on?

If Grayfox flip town, who do you think is scum?
If Grayfox flips scum, who do you think is scum?

I'm trying to work things in my head, one side of my brains screaming town, while the other side is screaming scum, I can't get onto neutral ground regarding Gray. He's not exactly done a lot of things that screams from the rooftops that he is town and I am wrong to doubt.

Ugh this seems like a super cop-out (Kop-out?) answer to me. I have no problem with not being able to read some one and going back and forth on said read. I do that all the time. But I really only see scum being that inconsistent with a read; not remembering how you read Gray early on is spooky.

You also have a lot of "filler" posts that comment on the strategies of players rather than the players themselves, which is an easier, less risky way for scum to pretend to be involved.

[Spiffeh]

Frogger I just looked at a recently completed game of Boon's where he was scum, and he had over 400 posts.

It was super easy to check for myself. The fact that you want a lurker lynched on meta without checking more in depth makes me wary of you!

[Spiffeh]

TSO, we are making a passioned case.

I've stated how Boon's ISO is shit, how he hard defended Ozgin and then made an I told you so post after the JOAT claim.

I've stated how he vote parked on gray for about 1200 posts now.

I've stated his case on Mahonster isn't a case.

Wake and I have pointed out his activity is inconsistent with his town meta.

So stop ignoring the facts and help us lynch scum

Is this your case against him? All I see are a summary of his actions.

ISOing him...
I think his "case" against Mahonster (if you mean post 307) is a perfectly valid point. Sure he hasn't been pushing anything because he hasn't been around but his case isn't shit.

I mean yeah there's not much of value there but nothing scummy in my opinion. He has at least been consistent, unlike Kop. I'm not lynching a lurker when I believe there are better targets.

[Spiffeh]

TSO what do you think of Kop and Frogger?

[Spiffeh]

Frogger what do you think about Kop pls

TSO too.

[Spiffeh]

Wake what is your point against TSO that he is not responding to?

I know the Masquerade thing but what point were you trying to make with that?

[Spiffeh]

*braces self*

[Spiffeh]

[Spiffeh]

gdi I screwed up the format awkward

[Spiffeh]

Why can't we all just love each other?

[Spiffeh]

Yeah I'm ultimately fine with a Grayfox lynch I just think there are scummier players.

Seems like the consensus will be Gray though.

[Spiffeh]

Wake how will you feel about TSO if Gray flips scum?

[Spiffeh]

Texcat who are your top 3 scumreads then?

[Spiffeh]

I don't like where this is going let's stop now.

Look at me
VOTE: Grayfoxxxx

[Spiffeh]

It's k Shinobi we'll crucify him in the neighborhood

[Spiffeh]

Reading the dead thread made me realize how retarded I am.

It's ok it's easy to complain when you're dead and have spoilers. Don't take it to heart.

[Spiffeh]

BUT Kop should have been lynched way earlier

/bitterness

[Spiffeh]

Did they agree to release the mafia pt?

I think it should just be released. If anyone objected, they would say so.

+1

[Spiffeh]

Yeah the Werewolf one is still inaccessible

I MUST KNOW WHY THEY KILLED ME (although I could probably guess)!!!