Micro 576 - Word Sneak Mafia 2: Even Sneakier! (Game Over)

[Postie]

Took a while for the thread to open - who would take so long to confirm? Scum setting up an elaborate plan, that's who.

VOTE: RadiantCowbells

wait

VOTE: Halos and Horns

[Postie]

Also - and I'm probably going to be RVS voted for saying this - you have no idea how relieved I am to be town.

[Postie]

Angel is RC, right? And lilith hasn't posted yet?
Sign your posts, please. e-e

[Postie]

I leave for 10 minutes and someone decides to post the entirety of the Bee Movie script in the thread. What the hell.

[Postie]

Same, and since scum know the results I'll probably be nightkilled and you won't have to worry about my alignment.

[Postie]

Having said that, GuiltyLion

did not break

this rule.

So we can just post stories and film scripts or whatever? Sweet. Or... not, since I'm not going to be able to guess anyone's words now.

[Postie]

Also, town, don't forget that scum can share their lists, so they already have the upper hand on us with regards to the double vote.

Nope. I was scum last game and we weren't allowed (we were forbidden from saying ANY of our words at ANY time).

[Postie]

Ugh Postie you need to talk about reads and shit please.

Well Aristophanes is probably town for not knowing about scum not being able to share wordsneak stuff in their PT. Unless Aero forgot to mention it to the scum, since he only decided on that rule last game after I questioned him about what the rule was. Doesn't seem like the kind of thing you'd forget to mention though.

[Postie]

Having said that, GuiltyLion

did not break

this rule.

So we can just post stories and film scripts or whatever? Sweet. Or... not, since I'm not going to be able to guess anyone's words now.

I really hope you are just playing dumb here intentionally, because it's been basically stated why he posted the script.

Wait, what?

... Oh.

[Postie]

Ugh Postie you need to talk about reads and shit please.

Well Aristophanes is probably town for not knowing about scum not being able to share wordsneak stuff in their PT. Unless Aero forgot to mention it to the scum, since he only decided on that rule last game after I questioned him about what the rule was. Doesn't seem like the kind of thing you'd forget to mention though.

Urgh, I was just gonna say it was unlikely to have been a fake townslip because I talked to Aero via PM about whether posting wordsneak words in the PT was allowed, so it wasn't mentioned anywhere in the PT and therefore Aristophanes wouldn't have fakeslipped because he wouldn't know I'd know it was a slip, buuuuuuuuuuuuut... I've just realised the PT was never released. And even if it was he might have just assumed it would it would have been mentioned if it was mentioned to him.

Damn it.

[Postie]

I feel like scum had so long in pregame and Postie in scumchat probably would have mentioned that I would be focused on her most of the game and asked her partner to help defend her

Not that this counts for much, but I'd like to think my scumgame is better than that. You think I'd risk getting D1 cop'd again? If I were scum, I'd have used that time to try and set up a way for my partner to bus me without it looking like a bus.

Analyzing slips is sort of lazy and easy.

Potentially, but we're on page 3 and there isn't much to work with.

What are your thoughts on others? What about Aristo wrt the rest of his play?

I think Aristo wondering why you need to sort me makes sense, but I don't think it tells me anything about his alignment. My gut says town though.
I think you're town too.
Not sure about everyone else.

[Postie]

I was just wondering if there is a reason for sorting Postie first. Like, I know you sort FA because you can. I see no feigning that Postie is either easy to sort for you, nor that sorting her will help sort everyone else. Thus I am curious why you would choose to do so.

I may given a couple of players some trust issues...

[Postie]

*have given

[Postie]

I don't see it. Are you going completely off gut or is there anything you can point to as a reason for not liking those posts? And are you scumreading both of us?

[Postie]

A bit of gut, but 46 feels like directing the Cop in an indirect manner, which feels scummy. Not a strong read at all, but I don't have a strong read on anyone else yet.

Oh, I getcha. Like scum trying to get the cop to waste their investigation on someone they know is town? Sounds plausible, but it's equally plausible that he didn't want to straight-up say "the cop should investigate Postie" because awkward British politeness.
Pretty weak reasoning, but yeah, good enough for RVS.

[Postie]

so gut

Was there any point to this comment?

[Postie]

I'm pretty much guaranteed to get checked tonight and therefore also really likely to get nightkilled, so there's really no reason to stress about reading me this early.

Can you go into more detail on your Aristophanes read?

[Postie]

I can get behind that.

VOTE: Aristophanes

Baaa.

[Postie]

I can dig this for now.

Why?

[Postie]

What about the cop directing didn't you like though?

[Postie]

So do you just disagree with it, or do you actually think it's scummy? If it's scummy, why?

[Postie]

101 pings me but I'm not sure why; something about the general tone and last sentence, I think.

Wasn't feeling this wagon earlier; I'm liking it more now.

[Postie]

Why do you think it's more likely to cone from scum!Davsto than town!Davsto?

[Postie]

*come

[Postie]

What do you mean by "such stuff"? Saying things which sound scummy? But if that's the case, then you must also have a reason to think what he said sounded scummy that's different to what you've just told me.

[Postie]

I really don't like this Davsto counterwagon.

There's two votes on him, one of which is RVS, so it seems like a bit of stretch to call it a counterwagon at this point.

I also suggested that the cop should check Postie and I was much more insistent about it.
Why is Davsto getting pressured for it while everyone's just writing me off?

Because you didn't have a "hidden agenda"? At least, that seems to be BNL's view. I have no idea what's going on with Aristophanes, since he said he doesn't like cop directing in principle.

I feel like I understand both sides of the BNL/Davsto thing, but agree with neither. I'm tempted to call it TvT.

[Postie]

I don't know, like... nothing's pinging me. I don't get the impression that either of them have any kind of agenda; neither of them seem to be trying to actually get the other lynched, they're just arguing about their read on each other.

[Postie]

97 and 98 say nothing

How can you get behind that?

I liked this:

But there's also the fact that the entire line of questioning as to why I was focused on reading you just bugs me. He asked the questions down the line but I never really feel like he got anything from the answer? like it didn't feel like he was trying to sort my slot, it felt like he was just asking the questions for their own sake and he didn't really get anything from the result.

I kind-of got the same feel, at least at first. Didn't have anything else to work with, so this is what I went with. Wagons are good, even if you're not scumreading the person.

101 pings me but I'm not sure why; something about the general tone and last sentence, I think.

Wasn't feeling this wagon earlier; I'm liking it more now.

After you sleeping halos and horns after their paranoia ate I have zero reason to believe this is genuine

If you think that was an attempt to justify and push a wagon on a player I wasn't scumreading before, you're wrong. My read on Aristophanes hasn't changed, and if there was another wagon I could work with I might be on it, but since I'm still unsure about Aristophanes I'm working with this for now and noting down anything that stands out to me.
Overall, I'm still leaning town on Aristo, but want him to answer some more questions. Right now, I really need to know why he scumread Davsto for directing the cop because he hates cop directions in principle, but hasn't commented on Halo's cop directing, especially since Halo was more insistent about it.

Tell me in what way it's a "hidden" agenda? Like, I basically said "cop postie please"

I'm thinking about a Postie lynch. Could save us the investigation too, no?

VOTE: Postie

Everybody is to busy being afraid of Postie to see how little commitment she has to anything

As much as I want to hate you for pushing an easy mislynch rather than commenting on anything else that's happened in the thread, I can't really fault your logic.

You know what?

VOTE: Postie

Like I'm not trying to advocate for my own lynch or anything, but I would actually like to see where this goes.
I think my townplay so far has been less aggressive than usual because I haven't had much direction. Usually, I find something to latch onto and attack it, and when I don't have that I start looking scummy because I have no idea what I'm doing.
This works though. Let's go!

[Postie]

As much as I want to hate you for pushing an easy mislynch rather than commenting on anything else that's happened in the thread, I can't really fault your logic.

I would like your opinion on something other than me though while we're here. Your push is lazy, even if it makes sense.

[Postie]

Postie voting Postie is dumb.

Yeah, probably. I'm bored though.

[Postie]

Swordsworth hasn't even posted yet, has he? I think GL needs prodding too.

[Postie]

Right now, I really need to know why he scumread Davsto for directing the cop because he hates cop directions in principle, but hasn't commented on Halo's cop directing, especially since Halo was more insistent about it.

Yup.

[Postie]

What are your reads?
We're you part of the Postie Scum Masterpiece?
What's your favourite word to sneak into conversation?
What do you think of the H&H Hydra?

Are these questions just random vague suggestions in an attempt to inspire discussion, or are you actually looking for serious answers for most of these?

[Postie]

Which ones are serious?

[Postie]

Yes.

VOTE: Aristophanes

I thought I was done with this wagon but I'm not.

[Postie]

I misread the "why does it matter?" as "does it matter?" oops.
It matters because it looks like you're trying to look busy without actually engaging properly. You're being superficial.

[Postie]

I am trying to engage him so I can read him. He has called for a cop on you and tunneled BLP. I want to sort him for more than just that, but it's all he's done.
I fail to see how it is superficial.

Okay, then explain to me why you asked him the questions that you did and how they will help you get a read on him.

[Postie]

I couldn't get a strong scum read, so I voted you as it was RVS.

Are you saying your vote on Davsto was RVS? Cause I didn't get that sense from your vote.

I did. At least, I got the sense it was one of those semi-serious votes that exists in between RVS and serious votes; the nit-picking-to-get-the-game-moving type of vote.

[Postie]

You happy Postie?

Not really. #2 I can

maybe

understand as something you might want to know about, but the rest of your reasons are very meh.

3/10 try harder.

[Postie]

if I weren't townreading you I'd want to push you for answering a question meant for someone else. Just FYI.

What? I didn't answer the question. I can't, because I'm not BNL. I just said I disagreed with GL's interpretation of it not being an RVS vote.
And how come you're townreading me?

[Postie]

Why did you answer for BNL?

Like seriously please don't do this

See above. I simply read BNL's vote differently and thought you might have liked to know that.

[Postie]

was selfvoting some kind of rhetoric that went over my head?

I dunno. I kinda wanted my own wagon to take off to see who would hop on it and for what reason. But since I obviously wasn't in support of my own lynch, my vote didn't and wouldn't have really done anything probably.

[Postie]

But that self vote was worse than most OMGUS reads. How do you expect to see "where it goes" if you're going to hang onto it for like 20 posts

I wanted more pressure on Aristophanes. Priorities.

[Postie]

Despite the fact that it is I who am the focus, I like your motivation and seeming desire to get shit done. You're relentless, but in a good way.

How do you know I wouldn't be like this as scum too?

[Postie]

Also, shit like this:

was selfvoting some kind of rhetoric that went over my head?

I dunno. I kinda wanted my own wagon to take off to see who would hop on it and for what reason. But since I obviously wasn't in support of my own lynch, my vote didn't and wouldn't have really done anything probably.

I like this.

What did you like about this, btw?

[Postie]

I just feel like you're giving me way too much credit for things I wouldn't have a lot of trouble doing as scum.

[Postie]

I keep going back and forth on Aristophanes. His townread on me feels fake, his questions are superficial, but on the other hand, if he faked that townslip earlier he would have had to assume someone who played scum previously was in the game even though he clearly hasn't read Worsneak 1. Plus...

He's radiating a self-assured confidence that I don't think it would be easy for scum to fake.

... this.

Meta'd him. Didn't help.

Urgh.

[Postie]

Micro 558

Postie hard bussed Titus slot from the beginning of d1 then coasted to endgame.
Still urgh about it. To be fair, incredible inactivity, but still.

I love how you keep saying I bussed Titus, when really, it was just distancing that went horribly wrong (or right!). Like everything that went well that game was mostly a lot of fortunate accidents.

I've seen gl play a lot better than he is now

More of a watchful eye than 100% scum

True, but I think he plays a lot better than this as scum too, so...

[Postie]

In other news, Davsto hasn't commented on anything game-related except where prompted. That's a little worrying.

VOTE: Davsto

[Postie]

What are your reads?

Leaning town on Halos and Postie. Scum on BNP.

We're you part of the Postie Scum Masterpiece?

No, however I was part of the original Word Sneak within which my guilty Cop on Postie basically was the only reason she ended up being lynched. A Cop result would catch Postie scum and also stop everyone being paranoid about her and using it as an excuse to not do anything else.

What's your favourite word to sneak into conversation?

penis

What do you think of the H&H Hydra?

See above. Don't know why, but a gut town-ish. Why them in particular over any other player?

You got any reads other than gut, Dav?

[Postie]

Wait, that was L-1? Shit you're right.

UNVOTE:

Bit early for this.

[Postie]

Also also also don't go putting people at L-1 if the owner of the double vote (cuz the second vote is anonymous iirc) hasn't claimed yet because then an easy, no-repercussions quickhammer which is bad in many ways.

Didn't even realise this. Thanks for the heads up. Townpoints.

[Postie]

He got pressured. He needs to try to make us look bad

What?

[Postie]

Because I've decided she's likely enough to be town for it to be a waste.

Okay but... why? Gut again? :/

[Postie]

Davsto's response was towny enough for me. I'm still conflicted on Aristophanes so I'll go back there, I guess.

VOTE: Aristophanes

I'm like 80% sure H&H is town so I would actually very much prefer if the cop checked me over anyone else tonight, if only to settle RC's paranoia. Paranoid/distracted RC is no good.

[Postie]

That's alright. Makes sense to be wary of me. At gamestart I legit caught myself thinking about who to nightkill before remembering I didn't have a nightkill so I'm not sure I trust

myself

not to be scum.

[Postie]

Bloody hell we're not lynching this early.

UNVOTE:

[Postie]

Aristo is V/LA every Friday to Sunday so you're not going to get reads from him today.

[Postie]

Really. Because he was posting today and yesterday.

He said he would drop by later. And post reads soon...

What does that mean to you, because to me it means today

Oh, yeah, maybe. Idk. I just saw what it said in his signature.

Why are you unvoting? He's not going to get lynched.

Really because Flubber was getting ready to state intent to hammer.

Postie, you're very unnecessarily afraid of quick hammers. Why?

"unnecessarily"
I haven't gotten all my words in yet.
I'm unsure of this wagon.
I want time to get a read on you.
I live in a twenty-foot house made of polyester with Kanye West.
I want to actually contribute something today if I'm getting nightkilled (because if we lynch scum today and everyone promises to cop me if they're the cop then I am confirmed town tomorrow).

[Postie]

Can you link me some past scum games, lane?

My scum game is right down there with the worst of them. Generally I lurk then replace out. I can't fake scum hunting to save my life

Let's see how true this is.

[Postie]

Thanks, lane. From skimming your ISOs in those games, I think you tend to be a teensy bit less casual and more focused in your town games, but I don't know what to make of your ISO this game. I have no idea what to make of either wagon right now.

BNL is pretty meh this game though. I think he's usually more enthusiastic and willing to engage and contribute, even wall at times, which I'm not seeing this game.

VOTE: BulletNLynchproof

[Postie]

K it's my turn to be drunk now even though I'm not drunk and never drink.
So get this right, Jean Luc Picard lives in an octopus's garden in a pineapple under the sea, where he plays Mafia with Kristen Stewart. And when he's playing Mafia (which always happens on his stolen Laptop) he has this thing where he only ever joins games in which he's a Bulletproof Death Miller (this was after he only ever wanted to play as The Flying Pumpkin That Shoots Laser Beams Out Of Its Ass). And then one time someone actually designed a set-up with that role to make him happy, but someone else rolled that role, so he was all "Hurr durr, I demand to be a Triple-Voter then!" and the mod was like "Fo shizzle I'm not giving a triple-vote to anyone who lives in the Netherlands!" and in the end he lost to a scumteam of 50 Cent and Rowan Atkinson.

This is a tale that has been passed down for generations in my family, all the way from my great uncle Anthony, who was a sheep herder in Austria, and I thought you might've all liked to hear it.

[Postie]

You wanna hear another one?

I used to really like grapes but only the green ones because red grapes taste kinda sorta a lot like hamsters IMHO. But if you eat only green grapes infinitely and you're someone as influential as Daniel Craig, then red grapes go out of fashion, which is bad news for red grape farmers. Luckily I'm actually Ian McKellen, so that's not a problem, but if it were then the Death Star would probably explode and make a ding-dong noise and we'd all be doomed.

More interesting factoids coming soon.

[Postie]

Did you know eggs are only ever oval? I did! And now you know too, you slightly one-eyed marshmallow!

Did you know snails taste with their feet? Cool, right? But not as cool as sixty-thousand fish in submarine!

Did you know there's a shop in North London where everything is 25p? Amazing! I bet Christopher Nolan would love it!

Did you know there's a town is Wales called Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch? An interesting tongue-twister, and one I'm sure would pair well with dental floss on a cold summer morning!

Take note of these interesting facts while you can, because I'm going to have to stop being such a distraction soon if I want to catch teh evil scumz, who will no doubt thrive in this choas before returning to their UFO!

[Postie]

Amid my daily attempt to do a pull-up and failing, I have also discovered that if you squish a centipede at juuuuust the right angle, it farts out rainbows. Bemad bro? Bathe in jiggly crumpets instead! Athena the goddess of sardines and those annoying little leftover bits of potato chips you find at the bottom of the bag will surely guide you to achieve your dreams of rocking around the Christmas tree.
When you find yourself spangled, just remember that we need BACON FOR PRESIDENT! Alchemy is our only option! Noo, wait, I meant anarchy! Pop your chewing gum hesitantly and just think of the children - if all goes to plan, they'll be supercalifragilisticexpialidocious and will thank Tom Hanks you supported them through this difficult time of immeasurable backpeddaling!

[Postie]

Alright, here's one last splendid anecdote for you all. I was walking home this morning from a 3-day annual CEEELEBRATION OF TWISTED SHOE-LACES, which is definitely not where the Scummies take place, when I noticed I had no hair. None at all. I was balder than a bald eagle. Except that I wasn't, because IT'S CURRENTLY WINTER in Great Britain, and I only shed my hair in spring - a mildly infuriating experience. That's when I realised I needed to play more Mafia to improve my ability to not have to Tree Stump myself in games where I have that role, because Tree Stumps also do not have hair. GOOD THING I'M NOT IN EGYPT looking at the Sphinx, because you know what else doesn't have hair? A breed of cat called Sphynx. *meerkat noises* We should all join forces and make a giant poster of the moon and throw it at all hairless cats, and then maybe everyone will know that THE MOONLANDINGS WERE FAKED WAKE UP SHEEPLE. I should retire and become something, anything, that isn't an ice-cream man after this, because dammit, I'm too cool.

Okay, I think that covers everything. I'm done now, I promise.

[Postie]

If I'm going to do wordsneak I'm going to do it properly.

( •_•)>⌐■-■

(⌐■_■)

But for srs this BNL wagon needs to happpen.

[Postie]

I'm an all or nothing kind of person.

[Postie]

Well, a all or "try but don't plan properly and then just give up" kind of person.

[Postie]

I mean, it should have been obvious, Lane, that the words were in there somewhere...

Or were they? Maybe it's all just an elaborate distraction!

[Postie]

^ Okay, THIS is an elaborate distraction. It's got to be.

[Postie]

L-1

[Postie]

When Aristo hit L-1, you pulled your vote off. But when BNL hits L-1, you leave your vote on and just declare it?

I'm null on Aristo and I'm scumreading BNL. That's why I pulled my vote off Aristo and not BNL.
If we lynch scum today and make sure the cop checks me tonight, I am confirmed town tomorrow if no one claims a guilty on me. There's no need to lynch me D1.

[Postie]

6 VTs, 1 Cop,

and

2 goons.

[Postie]

I feel like with how long pregame was, the cop thing would have been discussed, so there's another reason to be wary of the Aristo wagon.

[Postie]

RC, what reason do you even have to think it was faked both times?

[Postie]

I have an idea of what would be discussed but I think it would be anti-town for me to explain it. Sorry. I may go into at some point tomorrow if I'm still alive.

[Postie]

Scum1: hey theres a cop. We should try to get them dead
Scum2: Uh yeah, no fucking shit you stupid fuck

Thinking back, she kinda mentioned this waaaay back at the beginning of the day too.

In that if she was scum she'd have her partner bus her for the simple reason that she would be copped.
Thus the cop would be brought up and discussed from there as the reason for the bus.

Well, that would only happen if I was scum. Another reason would be to figure out the details of when they should claim cop (something I wish I'd done last game).

[Postie]

RC, why are you even trying to get me lynched first when your entire case on me depends on associatives with Aristo?

[Postie]

Hopefully BNL will get his butt in here and reassure us or... whatever the opposite of reassure is... about this wagon.

And oooh, you have my attention, TheCow. Seconding that excite!

[Postie]

... I hope that's not your entire catch-up.

[Postie]

If you're still sneaking words in

OMGUS Strongman "Big Brother is watching" Phil Keoghan "The Bee Movie was pretty good, if you ask me".

then what was this? I am so confused.

[Postie]

And yeah, townreading TheCow too.

[Postie]

Jesus. I can't tell if these stories are the words, or stories made up around the words.

Yeah, might be good to ask if "words" can be phrases and stories.

@Aero,
Care to weigh in?

I would rather it be less in random stories and more snuck into common conversation from now on. Good question.

Sorry, thanks for clarifying, I'll do that from now on!
I think what Aristo was asking though, was whether a "word" that someone gets assigned can be a phrase or story (correct me if I'm wrong, Aristo).

[Postie]

VOTE: BNL

choo choo

Feeling much better about Lane
Agree that 349 is the scummiest post in the game

This post is super duper lazy and super duper scummy.

Lazy? Sure. But why is it scummy?

[Postie]

Hmmn, okay. What do you think of Aristophanes?

[Postie]

Actually the amount of support for the BNL lynch is concerning. I think every single person except H&H, TheCow, and Flubber has pushed the wagon. I'm townreading H&H and TheCow, so that leaves BNL/Flubber as the only likely scumteam if BNL is scum - but then, why not lynch Flubber since he's going to be harder to read?

UNVOTE:

[Postie]

my reason for lower than usual activity is because I'm more busy with life than before).

And this does look to be a site-wide thing as well.

[Postie]

K. Here's where I'm at:

Town: H&H, TheCow, Davsto
Null, but shouldn't be too hard to figure out: BNL
Complete null: GL, Aristo, Flubber, lane

I have way too many null reads.
My gut still says town on Aristo but lilith made some good points.

[Postie]

Postie, why do you get off every wagon that gets momentum?

Because either the person reacts to the pressure in a town way (Davsto) or the momentum gained feels unnatural and people are giving stupid reasons for getting on the wagon (BNL).

If you believed in even one of them, you would have stayed on it

lol

Actually the amount of support for the BNL lynch is concerning. I think every single person except H&H, TheCow, and Flubber has pushed the wagon. I'm townreading H&H and TheCow, so that leaves BNL/Flubber as the only likely scumteam if BNL is scum - but then, why not lynch Flubber since he's going to be harder to read?

UNVOTE:

Wtf? You want to make your scum team now, and one of them has momentum, but you want to lynch the other one because they're harder to read, so you unvote, but don't put your vote anywhere else? Wtf? That's all sorts of crap

No, either you're misunderstanding completely or misrepping. I'm saying that the only likely way the BNL wagon could have gotten this much support is if the scumteam is BNL/Flubber, but Flubber is harder to read, so even if this was the case it would be silly to lynch BNL first.
I don't want to lynch Flubber today though, because a likelier explanation for the BNL wagon getting so much support is that it's being driven by scum.

Oh wow, that's good!
GG Aero!

Read this. Out loud. To yourself. Whatever you are right now. Exactly how it is written with punctuation. And tell me it sounds real

No, that's not how it works. The burden of proof is on you. Why does it sound scummy?

[Postie]

Warming to the idea of an Aristo or lane lynch. The BNL-was-misrepping argument is stupid. I'd prefer lane over Aristo though because Aristo's townslips remind me of when I kept townslipping in Newbie 1664 and Frozen Angel was all "OMG stop making fake townslips!" when really I was just an idiot.

VOTE: lane

Yeah, I'm wagon hopping again. Deal with it.

[Postie]

Also, Postie and GL, can you explain your Cow townread? Currently having him as null, don't see anything that makes him town.

The way he just randomly pops up, throws out a lot of random thoughts, and then disappears feels town to me somehow. Idk. His thoughts feel unfiltered.

How he missed the context is beyond me and I deem it unlikely and scummy.

The same way town-you couldn't possibly have missed the "6 VTs, 1 Cop, and 2 goons" in colourful letters in the opening post, right? Why are you holding BNL to a higher standard than yourself?

[Postie]

what do you have on lane?

I think there is/was scum on the BNL wagon, so my lynchpool for today is Aristo/lane/GL. I've explained why I don't want to lynch Aristo, so that leaves lane and GL. I'm not a fan of GL, but he hasn't really done enough for me to get a proper read on him, whereas I don't like the way lane sounds like he's

trying

to make certain things sound scummy. I thought his jump onto the Davsto wagon and subsequent attempts to cast shade on Davsto were blehh too.

[Postie]

I'm starting to see what was being said about lane casting shade on so many people...

Davsto:

Sword never picked up the role pm... You, my fine fellow, are making assumptions that can be verified, yet you don't bother to check into them, you just throw them out there as truth. And that is scummy

Uhhh... No. You said it right before you said my post was shallow and safe. Which was right before you said I was scum... You were implying they flaked because they were scum. You are pulling it out from wherever you can.

Then you didn't look very hard, or even care to question it. Cause it doesn't matter to scum, like you.

Aristophanes:

I think I'm starting to lean scum on Ari than davsto.

He asked for peoples reads much more than hes given any of his own, Postie town, Davsto scum.

Posted a whole bunch of filler. Like a whole heap.

I think he knew scum can't talk about their words, and his reaction when he "found out" seems genuinely fake. Oh really? Wow! Good job aero!

And I really don't like if my town flip helps coo. Feigning indifference if you ask me.

VOTE: aristophanes

L-1

Also, town, don't forget that scum can share their lists, so they already have the upper hand on us with regards to the double vote.

Oh wow, that's good!
GG Aero!

Most of it probably is textbook. But not take.

And how does this reaction seem real at all?

Oh wow, that's good!
GG Aero!

Read this. Out loud. To yourself. Whatever you are right now. Exactly how it is written with punctuation. And tell me it sounds real

GuiltyLion:

His reasons for scumreading Ari feel textbook and fake

Lol that reason could also fell textbook and fake...

It makes you a sub par scum hunter mostly, and possible scum, considering what you say I'm doing, is wrong.

So who do you think is scummier? Someone who uses fakeness as part of their case (me) or someone who uses fakeness as their entire case (you)

BNL:

Alright... What I wanted to say before but refrained from saying is that I really didn't like Bnl's post AT ALL. I'm amazed at the audacity to snip that sentence and play it off as a major scum slip. I was hoping he was going to be watching for a reaction, but it appears he just dropped it off and left.

VOTE: bnl

It was an obvious joke, you edited it to make it look scummy. Stop lying.

Me:

Postie, again doesn't like a wagon that might actually go to lynch... Don't like all the hopping off wagons.

Rc, you may have been right about Postie, and now theyre just hopping off so they can say see? I did it with bnl too. Possibly.

Postie, why do you get off every wagon that gets momentum? I'm starting to get the feeling you don't actually believe in any of the wagons you have been on and are just trying to look town. If you believed in even one of them, you would have stayed on it

Actually the amount of support for the BNL lynch is concerning. I think every single person except H&H, TheCow, and Flubber has pushed the wagon. I'm townreading H&H and TheCow, so that leaves BNL/Flubber as the only likely scumteam if BNL is scum - but then, why not lynch Flubber since he's going to be harder to read?

UNVOTE:

Wtf? You want to make your scum team now, and one of them has momentum, but you want to lynch the other one because they're harder to read, so you unvote, but don't put your vote anywhere else? Wtf? That's all sorts of crap

lane, you've called more than half the player list scum or possible scum now. And you've not given a single townread so far.

WTF.

[Postie]

OK. So when will you be in a wagon you actually believe in? That's my question?

I like

this

wagon a lot.

[Postie]

I've not given a single town read? You wanna do your research over or want me to let you know I've clearly called H&h town,

Okay, fair enough. I missed this.

will now call town TheCow,

Why?

[Postie]

It's there a problem with getting to find scum and changing reads? I mean you're ridiculous postie

Changing? Point me to single person you've called scum that you later called town.

[Postie]

Oh what? Cause I didn't change them from a scum read to an explicit town read? Let me tell you Postie, nobody that I've had a scum read on has moved to my town reads. You got a problem with that? Yes. You do.

Why does the fact I said that mean I have to change scum reads to town reads?

I mean, if you'd have said you changed some of your scumreads to null reads then I guess I might not have so big of problem with it, but you haven't done that at any point either.

So, who are you scumreading right now? Who are you null on? Why?

[Postie]

It's also pretty convenient for you that the only people you haven't called scum are those that have supported getting the people you want lynched lynched.

[Postie]

Ari bullet scum reads
Haven't thought about davsto recently
Should be obvious why. I'm not going to look for it right now

So GL and me are null? How come?

But why do I have to change scum reads to town reads? Like you implied I should have to buy changing reads?

When you've called 5 out of 9 people scum, I expect you to try to sort them so there's some kind of progression in your reads. It looks like you're trying to keep your options as open as possible so you can just lynch whoever.

[Postie]

It's also pretty convenient for you that the only people you haven't called scum are those that have supported getting the people you want lynched lynched.

Please Postie. Tell me if this is a scum tell or town tell. Right now. Tell me why town wouldn't support other people scum reading their scum reads.

Please reply to this post on its own

Sure, town would support other people scumreading their scumreads, but when the sole basis for whether someone is scum or not depends on whether they're backing you up then that's a problem.

The only people you haven't called scum are H&H, TheCow, and Flubber.

I am with flubber about being wary on gl's play here.

Just chill rc, we're friends for once. I'm feeling this out and kinda might be in your side for once

Marbles and toastie is my lynch pool. I'd compromise for one of my leans, but I'd rather we lynch

scum

.

Who incidentally also happen to be supporting your positions in a way that's really convenient for you.
That's a little sus.

[Postie]

The only players I've called scum so far are you and BNL (now a townlean). I haven't been scumreading every wagon I've pushed; the reason I pushed those wagons was because I thought they would help me progress my reads (which they did).

There isn't any kind of natural progression in your reads, on the other hand - you just keep calling more and more people scum.

[Postie]

The last few pages in particular have been so ridiculously scum!Postie that it blows my mind. Just a few examples

I like this wagon a lot.

Town!Postie every time I've seen her has been a lot shier from confrontation. In the original Slavic Music, when I started pushing on her she backed off really hard. In 1664 when we were fighting she kept trying to give me opportunities to show that I was town (which wasn't what I wanted at the time but we eventually townread each other so I digress.) I'm not quite sure what her scum response to pressure would be but this is absolutely not what I've seen from her as town. And I don't mean to portray her as a wallflower but this response is just incredibly jarring.

Then you may want to read my first game on site. I've obviously changed a bit since then but it's not too long ago and I think it'll help here. I deathtunneled scum day 1 and the post you quoted pretty much summaries my entire attitude whilst it was happening.

Lane's scumreading a lot of people, maybe, but Lane's stances have been extremely clear since he replaced into the game and in fact they precluded a Cow lynch, who as possibly the easiest mislynch of all time is not someone I would expect someone to come in declaring a townread on.

I don't remember him declaring a townread on TheCow until recently. He seemed pretty on the fence to me at the beginning of the game.

And he hasn't called 5 out of 9 people scum, he's indicated a townread on the rest of them. Like where does that interpretation even come from?

See 504. Maybe he didn't outright call all of them scum, but the ones where he didn't straight-up say "this is scum", it definitely looks like he thought they were scummy or was trying to cast some serious shade on them.

Notice that Postie here is entirely backing off from her Aristo read, which she ended up voting twice for long periods during this game but is now declaring as never having been a scumread without substantiating any reasons. 'because I thought they would help me progress my reads' what?

I misread the "why does it matter?" as "does it matter?" oops.
It matters because it looks like you're trying to look busy without actually engaging properly. You're being superficial.

AT THE VERY LEAST this post indicates a scumread that she's entirely 180ing on.

I may have swung a little one way or the other on Aristo during the course of the game, but he was always various degrees of null. Which is why I voted him. To try and get him out of my null zone.

And this entire 'oh but I would have had my partner bus me!' argument just plain stinks.

She declared that before this game even started. I believe in the last game's thread, after the cop guiltied her? If Postie was a D1 lynch led by anyone besides me I would immediately get incredibly fucking suspicious and demand cop checks on the early voters and the major pushers. Like it just plain doesn't make sense to use that argument. She declared to half of the people present in this game that she would ask her partner to bus her. It doesn't even make remote sense for her to actually have herself bussed when it's going to literally buy the opposite of towncred for her partner. Make herself scummy intentionally to frame the people on her wagon, maybe;

but no one besides us is really pushing her.

Like it's patent nonsense.

Eh, fair enough. Maybe I'd have thought it through better if I were actually scum.

Doesn't help that she's jumped on literally every single wagon that's gained any traction today, which is scummy as fuck,

I was leading those wagons

- I didn't jump on them at all! The wagons gained traction because of the people who followed me onto them.

that she called out every L-1 besides Aristo's, which is scummy as fuck as well, etc.

I was scumreading BNL when he was L-1'd, which is why I didn't immediately unvote like I did on other wagons where I wasn't scumreading the person being wagoned. And I did make a "L-1" post to make sure we didn't get a derphammer or scum quickhammer disguised as a derphammer.

Taking a look at the case for town-lane now.

[Postie]

Also also, if the cop gets a scum positive at some point, reveal it please!
A 1 for 1 tradeoff is aight with these numbers.

No, the cop should really see if they can get away with pushing a lynch through on their guilty without claiming first; if that doesn't work,

then

they should claim.

[Postie]

Then you may want to read my first game on site. I've obviously changed a bit since then but it's not too long ago and I think it'll help here. I deathtunneled scum day 1 and the post you quoted pretty much summaries my entire attitude whilst it was happening.

Also note that I was incredibly confbiased during that game, so I do need to reevaluate my read on lane in case I'm letting too much of that creep in here. That's probably why my attitude towards you in pisskop's game was different when I was tunneling you; I started realising there was confirmation bias involved, as well as paranoia because I saw you'd won all your scum games and I had no idea how to read you.

[Postie]

toastie, you're still pegging marbles as town?

Slight townlean, I think.

My money's on a scumteam of lane/Flubber or GL/Flubber.

[Postie]

As for Lane, I think his scum game is like, extremely ridiculously underwhelming.
I'm fairly sure he's town here just on account of that because he's made some ridiculously towny posts, not that I agree with all of his positions.

Can you go into more detail on this? Quote some posts at me?

I really like the way he's responding to Postie in particular and he's got a sort of confidence about it that feels ridiculously townie here, and the 'rc will avenge me' line is both hilarious and strikes me as almost definitely coming from a town mindset; I don't see scum!Lane trying to appeal to Town!Postie's self preservation there when she's made little effort to keep herself safe this game. That feels way more like Lane feeling confident that no matter what happens around his wagon that Postie's going to get lynched anyway and drawing comfort from it if that makes sense.

Why does the "RC will avenge me" line have to have some kind of agenda if it comes from scum? If anything, the phrase is inconsistent with the fact that I'm not in his scumreads. Why would he draw comfort from knowing I'll be lynched if he doesn't think I'm scum?

[Postie]

Why would he draw comfort from knowing I'll be lynched if he doesn't think I'm scum?

Actually, lane, when you get back here, I would really like you to answer this.

[Postie]

So yeah we've been talking on skype and I'm not liking postie anymore:

Spoiler:

I'm starting to see what was being said about lane casting shade on so many people...

Davsto:

Sword never picked up the role pm... You, my fine fellow, are making assumptions that can be verified, yet you don't bother to check into them, you just throw them out there as truth. And that is scummy

Uhhh... No. You said it right before you said my post was shallow and safe. Which was right before you said I was scum... You were implying they flaked because they were scum. You are pulling it out from wherever you can.

Then you didn't look very hard, or even care to question it. Cause it doesn't matter to scum, like you.

Aristophanes:

I think I'm starting to lean scum on Ari than davsto.

He asked for peoples reads much more than hes given any of his own, Postie town, Davsto scum.

Posted a whole bunch of filler. Like a whole heap.

I think he knew scum can't talk about their words, and his reaction when he "found out" seems genuinely fake. Oh really? Wow! Good job aero!

And I really don't like if my town flip helps coo. Feigning indifference if you ask me.

VOTE: aristophanes

L-1

Also, town, don't forget that scum can share their lists, so they already have the upper hand on us with regards to the double vote.

Oh wow, that's good!
GG Aero!

Most of it probably is textbook. But not take.

And how does this reaction seem real at all?

Oh wow, that's good!
GG Aero!

Read this. Out loud. To yourself. Whatever you are right now. Exactly how it is written with punctuation. And tell me it sounds real

GuiltyLion:

His reasons for scumreading Ari feel textbook and fake

Lol that reason could also fell textbook and fake...

It makes you a sub par scum hunter mostly, and possible scum, considering what you say I'm doing, is wrong.

So who do you think is scummier? Someone who uses fakeness as part of their case (me) or someone who uses fakeness as their entire case (you)

BNL:

Alright... What I wanted to say before but refrained from saying is that I really didn't like Bnl's post AT ALL. I'm amazed at the audacity to snip that sentence and play it off as a major scum slip. I was hoping he was going to be watching for a reaction, but it appears he just dropped it off and left.

VOTE: bnl

It was an obvious joke, you edited it to make it look scummy. Stop lying.

Me:

Postie, again doesn't like a wagon that might actually go to lynch... Don't like all the hopping off wagons.

Rc, you may have been right about Postie, and now theyre just hopping off so they can say see? I did it with bnl too. Possibly.

Postie, why do you get off every wagon that gets momentum? I'm starting to get the feeling you don't actually believe in any of the wagons you have been on and are just trying to look town. If you believed in even one of them, you would have stayed on it

Actually the amount of support for the BNL lynch is concerning. I think every single person except H&H, TheCow, and Flubber has pushed the wagon. I'm townreading H&H and TheCow, so that leaves BNL/Flubber as the only likely scumteam if BNL is scum - but then, why not lynch Flubber since he's going to be harder to read?

UNVOTE:

Wtf? You want to make your scum team now, and one of them has momentum, but you want to lynch the other one because they're harder to read, so you unvote, but don't put your vote anywhere else? Wtf? That's all sorts of crap

lane, you've called more than half the player list scum or possible scum now. And you've not given a single townread so far.

WTF.

This whole post is just pointing out that lane made pushes on 5 different people, but she's pushed aristo, davsto, BNL, and lane. We're playing mafia, our reads are never going to be set in stone and hers haven't been either so why do lane's have to be? I think this is really hypocritical of her to call lane out for.

I think there's a big difference between what me and lane have been doing.

I've been doing things sort-of like: nullread player A -> push a wagon on them -> reevaluate read on them -> nullread player B -> push a wagon on them -> reevaluate read on them -> etc...
And it's helped me sort people.

What lane's been doing has come across to me as much more simplistic, without the reevaluating of reads I'd expect to see, like, just straight-up: push a wagon on player A -> push a wagon on player B -> push a wagon on player C -> etc...

I'm not getting the sense that he's actually trying to progress his reads.

I feel like she is deliberately misrepping lane here by implying that he is only townreading the people who support his positions.

I'm not following you. Can you try and explain this a bit more?

RC says this kind of aggressiveness is really uncharacteristic of postie as well, I'm not familiar enough with her play to say one way or the other but I trust his read on her more than I do my own.

You should read the game I linked earlier too. Aggressiveness typically comes as a side-effect of me getting into a tunnel on someone when I (rightly or wrongly) feel sure of my read on them. It's probably a warning sign that I'm getting confbiased, but it isn't scum indicative.

Actually the amount of support for the BNL lynch is concerning. I think every single person except H&H, TheCow, and Flubber has pushed the wagon. I'm townreading H&H and TheCow, so that leaves BNL/Flubber as the only likely scumteam if BNL is scum - but then, why not lynch Flubber since he's going to be harder to read?

UNVOTE:

I'm really not understanding this logic either, Postie is entirely leaving out the possibility of bussing, which in a cop setup is probably pretty important. Initially I liked the fact that she unvoted at the same time that I voiced my concerns about the speed of the wagon, but looking more closely at her reason for unvoting is making me think twice.

Bussing would be the other explanation, yes, but I didn't see it as likely. BNL hasn't been super scummy, so I thought it would be odd for scum to push his wagon so willingly and quickly when they still had other options, like pushing the Aristo counterwagon. Also, what Davsto said.

I think RC is at the point where he's not going to respond to you or aristo a lot anymore.

Well, I'm hoping at least that he can give the game I linked a quick skim and respond to my questions about lane.

[Postie]

Wait what
Since when were you scumreading Flubbernugget, and why?

I would like an explanation from Postie as to why she thinks I'm scum and why she reversed her push on BNL.

Those are less scumreads and more nullreads that could be scum based on the interactions between the players I've got as potential scum from PoE.

K. Here's where I'm at:

Town: H&H, TheCow, Davsto
Null, but shouldn't be too hard to figure out: BNL
Complete null: GL, Aristo, Flubber, lane

I have way too many null reads.
My gut still says town on Aristo but lilith made some good points.

I think I might have a gut townlean on Flubber now though, so idk anymore.

[Postie]

Doesn't help that she's jumped on literally every single wagon that's gained any traction today, which is scummy as fuck,

I was leading those wagons

- I didn't jump on them at all! The wagons gained traction because of the people who followed me onto them.

You definitely didn't lead the Davsto wagon

Oh, yeah, you're right. It just seemed to have a lot of traction very suddenly and I didn't check the vote count. You and Aristo were already on it. My bad.

Warming to the idea of an Aristo or lane lynch. The BNL-was-misrepping argument is stupid. I'd prefer lane over Aristo though because Aristo's townslips remind me of when I kept townslipping in Newbie 1664 and Frozen Angel was all "OMG stop making fake townslips!" when really I was just an idiot.

VOTE: lane

Yeah, I'm wagon hopping again. Deal with it.

aristo isn't a newbie

I wasn't a newbie in Newbie 1664 either.

Lol I just read Postie say they are leading all the wagons. And explicitly not jumping on wagons.

Its weird how she also thinks of herself as wagon hopping.

Thats all I have the energy to say today

What?

[Postie]

Postie - why did you reverse your read from BNL scum to BNL town? Is it purely because of the speed of his wagon? Because I see all-town fast wagons happen all the time, especially when someone does something as scummy as BNL did.

That's the problem though; I think the argument people kept using for BNL being scum is complete bullshit and three of you are supporting it. I don't understand how that's possible.

If Postie is town here I wouldn't rule out scum!H&H

I guarantee you H&H is town this game.

[Postie]

At the

very least

he's not reading and not paying attention the game.

This is how I'm reading the situation. I'll take another look though.

Regarding your H&H guarantee, I've seen scum!RC write up similar cases before. Not sure why you're townreading them so strongly.

Reading that case, I'm even more confident in my read. I could explain why I'm so sure, but I don't know if I want to narrow their already slim chances of making it through N1. Since I probably have the cop on me tonight and scum know the results, I'm hoping I'll be killed instead and they can get their head in the game tomorrow.

[Postie]

Oh my god I'm so sorry I take that guarantee back! I only just ran the numbers through my spreadsheet and the result was definitely not what I was expecting. If I'd have gotten a town result I would have considered them confirmed town, because I haven't ever gotten a town result on RC and had it be wrong, but the results are inconclusive as of yet. My calculations are technically giving me a Mafia result right now, but I consider them inconclusive because that's not at all uncommon for day 1. When I get a Mafia result, I only consider it conclusive from around day 3 onwards, and even then I have to check that certain NAI factors aren't inflating RC's "score".

Completely disregard my townread for the moment.

[Postie]

Sorry if that made no sense lol. I have a spreadsheet full of data on RC that I use to read him. He has certain things he always does as scum but barely ever as town.

[Postie]

I'm not telling anyone what they are, for obvious reasons.

[Postie]

Well, yeah, but if I die or you're townreading me or whatever it might be something to consider when/if I get more conclusive results.
Unfortunately, one of the NAI factors I was talking about that could inflate his score might have something to do with me being alive. But if I'm dead I can't tell you what results I'm getting with me out of the game, so... this is an awkward situation.
I need to figure out if I buy that RC's case on me is genuine or whether I think he's looking for an easy mislynch that he can chalk up to paranoia and get away with.

[Postie]

Great, now I'm scumreading H&H.

I feel like a lot of the things RC is pushing as reasons for me being scum are things he should know better than to scumread me for. Like the wagon hopping. Pretty much the only times I have not done this were as scum.

I'm also starting to feel like RC's paranoia of me is way overdone.
For example:

K can I pleas just direct the cop and can we please just have the cop check Postie N1?
I'm probably not really ready to play with her at this point and I'm getting way too stuck on the slot. I'm not going to be able to play this game in any real capacity unless I can just ignore trying to sort her.
Sorry for this given that I said that you probably wouldn't get cop checked with me in the game but I just can't really play this game right now any other way.

That's page 4. It seems a little early to declare yourself "stuck" and get so worked up.

Also, take a look at lilith's ISO from Wordsneak 1 (it won't let me link it properly, so you can have it in code tags):

Code: Select all

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=7531279&user_select[]=26733#p7531279

She struggles a lot more with getting reads on people and making detailed, analytical posts, whereas here...
Ugh, just look at 121, 462, and 545.
And she doesn't prod and question people the way she did in Wordsneak 1; she always seems to have very ordered and organised thoughts and know exactly what she's doing every time she posts.

I just get this horrible feeling that RC is telling her what to write.

Arghhhh. I need some time to make sense of H&H's ISO.

[Postie]

Sorry, we were supposed to talk about the game but we ended up talking about other stuff instead and she's gone to bed now but I'll make a little post.

She struggles a lot more with getting reads on people and making detailed, analytical posts, whereas here...
Ugh, just look at 121, 462, and 545.
And she doesn't prod and question people the way she did in Wordsneak 1; she always seems to have very ordered and organised thoughts and know exactly what she's doing every time she posts.

I mean this is a way to look at it, but keep in mind that in wordsneak 1 she was alone and this time around we've been talking about this game constantly on skype so I'd think that it would be obvious that her readposts that she puts in thread would be a lot more fleshed out and organized.

That's true. I can maybe see it. Idk. The difference threw me.

That's page 4. It seems a little early to declare yourself "stuck" and get so worked up.
I'm also starting to feel like RC's paranoia of me is way overdone.
For example:

I feel like you should know that me having issues dealing with your slot goes past paranoia.

I was not kidding when I said that I probably wasn't ready to play with you again, and I feel like you should at least somewhat understand the way I'm feeling here.

Ah, sorry, maybe I underestimated how much trouble you'd have with me this game.

I feel like a lot of the things RC is pushing as reasons for me being scum are things he should know better than to scumread me for. Like the wagon hopping. Pretty much the only times I have not done this were as scum.

Yeah, but when you were scum on D1 you voteparked your partner and for the rest of the game you just followed me onto bandwagons.
I agree that you aggressively leading wagons is a change of pace from your play in 558, but I disagree strongly with your idea that I should treat 558 like your standard play.
It's not the vote hopping itself it's that the votes are poorly substantiated, your Aristo read is bonkers, and your positions seem opportunistic.

That makes more sense.

Well, yeah, but if I die or you're townreading me or whatever it might be something to consider when/if I get more conclusive results.
Unfortunately, one of the NAI factors I was talking about that could inflate his score might have something to do with me being alive. But if I'm dead I can't tell you what results I'm getting with me out of the game, so... this is an awkward situation.
I need to figure out if I buy that RC's case on me is genuine or whether I think he's looking for an easy mislynch that he can chalk up to paranoia and get away with.

Do you consider yourself an easy mislynch?

I don't think you are, and I think you particularly not an easy mislynch in this game where you are generally townread.

I'm not necessarily known for going after the safest targets as scum but I would absolutely not be targeting you as either a safe mislynch nor to avoid getting 'in trouble' for it.

Perhaps not, but the way you were pushing the Aristo/me-scumteam thing, it kinda felt like you were at least setting me up to be the lynch tomorrow, especially since you've considered both the possibility of me and Aristo being partners and me setting up fake associatives with Aristo. It's like no matter what Aristo flips as, you'll still want me lynched.
Plus, tunneling me D1 gives you an excuse not to look for scum elsewhere and is just generally really distracting for town.

So, you are claiming to have some sort of spreadsheet that can fairly accurately determine my alignment.
How did you mix up the results on that and how did your entire read shift just because the results of your random spreadsheet

I didn't mix up the results; I never checked in the first place. I just sort-of assumed you were town for various reasons and assumed my spreadsheet would give me a town result, and then when it didn't, I started getting paranoid and seeing everything as scummy. But like I said, it isn't even remotely reliable on day 1 and the results are basically worthless at this point.

You were townreading me for the contrast between the BBT read in the newbie and my read on you here; what's changed about that?

It was mainly gut and I do think I need to revisit that. I still think there's a difference.

(and seriously? you've never even played with scum!RC before; if it weren't for the fact that I'd probably do BBT style for you if i played with you more I'd find that somewhat creepy)

The spreadsheet? I mean, I never set out to look for tells or make one on them; I just noticed a pattern while metadiving you in another game, wondered if it applied to other games too, realised I needed to write stuff down, and then... bam! I'm really, really, sorry if it comes across as creepy.

[Postie]

I'm actually finding my swingy reads as frustrating as you are at this point. Even IRL, I have a ton of trouble holding down consistent opinons on a lot of things because I can always see both sides if they're explained to me or if I'm trying to look at things both ways.
My brain is drawn to patterns. Unfortunately, that means if I think someone is scum I will suddenly see everything as pointing to them being scum, and then when I consider the possibility of them being town, I suddenly see a bunch of reasons for them being town and want to townread them.
Even the post you just made has instantly put you back in my null reads, and I'm very tempted to move you into my townreads. Which makes no sense.

Ugh. I'm so sorry. I have no idea what I'm doing this game.

[Postie]

I think it would be best to just let the cop seal my fate tbh. If I need to be lynched to stop being a distraction then that's okay with me too, I think. Idk. It's not unusual for me to have no clear sense of direction as town, but this game it's really bad, probably because I'm used to other players taking charge and assuming some kind of town leader position. ._.

[Postie]

I do see your point, GL, because I thought the same thing as I was writing it but didn't bother to change it. There's really nothing I can say here other than that it's a really unfortunate choice of words. I just meant that whether or not I'll be the lynch tomorrow should be decided by the cop, so there's no need to stress about things today.

[Postie]

This was all a reaction test, RC!?

Oh my god I hate you (jk).

[Postie]

This was all a reaction test, RC!?

Oh my god I hate you (jk).

I guess this explains why everything felt planned/fake. :/

[Postie]

Why would he draw comfort from knowing I'll be lynched if he doesn't think I'm scum?

Actually, lane, when you get back here, I would really like you to answer this.

I don't think you ever answered this.
In case you've forgotten, it's RE: the "rc will avenge me" comment in 508. You called me scum in the post following it too.

See it to the end then, you scum

Ari bullet scum reads
Haven't thought about davsto recently
Should be obvious why. I'm not going to look for it right now

But why do I have to change scum reads to town reads? Like you implied I should have to buy changing reads? Bnl change 180. Davsto I guess null cause I haven't been paying attention to him.

^ 3 posts apart.
what

[Postie]

*6
I can't read.

[Postie]

I'm not following your second post here. What's your point

You called me scum and then 6 posts later, not scum.

???

[Postie]

Why would rc avenge me, if I flipped scum? What would there be to avenge?

The fact you're pushing your own (hypothetical) townslip as a reason to townread you makes me think you faked it.

[Postie]

Go ahead and attack me for pointing out you haven't had a solid read once a keep unvoting you scum reads.... I know rc will avenge me so I'm not scared

See it to the end then, you scum

Yeah, forgive me for being so presumptuous as to assume these statements meant you were scumreading me, rather than you - a townie - hoping that I - a fellow townie - get lynched, and then joking about me being scum.

P-Edit: After lane's latest posts, I still want him lynched, but I wouldn't be completely opposed to lynching GL.

[Postie]

because you're unable to actually think it through yourself.

Or maybe irony doesn't translate well over the internet because it's extremely hard to judge intonation in written text.

BNL reads to me like transparently obvious scum

Explain?

toastie, talk about h&h for a second

You want my read? Back to leaning town on them, although I haven't thought it through very well at this point. At a glance, posts 247 and 593 feel like town-RC, but I'm too tired to actually try to properly articulate why right now or think deeper.

[Postie]

Prod received. Sorry for my lurkiness. Content coming soon.

UNVOTE:

No longer scumreading lane. Will probably end up voting GL but need to reread first.

[Postie]

Thoughts:

Ok then theres a good chance that are scum. Anyone that wants to push me is free to do so, but they're either scum, or they're the worst mafia player of all time. Or they've just never seen my scum and town game

Lane's arrogance feels town. Scum sometimes act arrogant, but it usually feels overdone or fake. This seems genuine.
Unvote and go somewhere else please, Davsto. Lane isn't happening today.

RC's "I can't explain it very well but GL'S sCUM I KNOW IT omg pls" stuff feels town and I'm willing to sheep it.
Also, I think in a lot of places GL's case on BNL is trying to apply to general principles about what's scummy to BNL without considering him on an individual level. It feels fake.

VOTE: GuiltyLion

[Postie]

Idk why that catch-up post ended up so brief so if I missed anything or you want more details on stuff then let me know.

[Postie]

You have no strong scumreads so you're going to sheep H&H on me?

Pretty much, but not quite.

Also, I think in a lot of places GL's case on BNL is trying to apply to general principles about what's scummy to BNL without considering him on an individual level. It feels fake.

What makes you think BNL is town?

I don't. He's null now. The content I've seen from him has been underwhelming, but not scummy, as far as I'm concerned.

What do you think of BNL completely ignoring my questions towards him,

Or maybe he just missed them?

or H&H getting the context of the game completely wrong in accusing me of not pushing against the Aristophanes wagon?

Do you have reason to believe it was done purposely?

[Postie]

Lol no he didn't, he EXPLICITLY said he saw it:

Like why are you answering my question just to give a non-answer?

I wanted to acknowledge that I have read your question but don't have a response yet.

remember in Word Sneak Mafia 1 when you were all "every time I've seen someone ignore a question multiple times they have been scum"? What happened to that here?

Oh, right. I haven't been following the game as closely as I should.

It seems he also said the following before saying the thing you quoted:

BNL what do you think of H&H suggesting that you're a newbie, or at least playing like one?

My immediate response (answer off the top of my head) is I don't know. Do you want me to think through this more?

So I'm not sure you can really say he was

ignoring

your question.
What response were you looking for? It doesn't seem like a question that's particularly easy to come up with an answer for.

I'm not sure that I believe scum!H&H would make such a careless mistake or also go this hard balls-to-the-wall defending a scumbuddy and strongarming the lynch onto me instead.

Pretty much my thoughts.

[Postie]

But I really don't think it should be hard for a townie to:
1. say if they agree or not whether they're playing like a newbie
2. give an assessment (or a first take, or even scattered thoughts) about whether another player calling them a newbie feels genuine

You didn't ask him to do those things though. Your question was pretty vague.

Like if someone defended you by calling you a newbie, would your first take be "I don't know what I think of that"? And then follow it up with nothing else, even when patiently prompted (705)?

Actually, yeah, I probably would, because being called a newbie when you're not a newbie seems like something that shouldn't generally be alignment indicative, and doesn't look to be in the context, so it's really hard to come up with a response other than *wiggly hand gesture*.

I don't see why he would fear anything from answering that question,

What gives you the impression he fears answering the question?

[Postie]

also just found this:

But for srs this BNL wagon needs to happpen.

why did you say this and then get all "omg scum must be on his wagon" when the wagon did happen?

Actually the amount of support for the BNL lynch is concerning. I think every single person except H&H, TheCow, and Flubber has pushed the wagon. I'm townreading H&H and TheCow, so that leaves BNL/Flubber as the only likely scumteam if BNL is scum - but then, why not lynch Flubber since he's going to be harder to read?

UNVOTE:

my reason for lower than usual activity is because I'm more busy with life than before).

And this does look to be a site-wide thing as well.

Postie, why do you get off every wagon that gets momentum?

Because either the person reacts to the pressure in a town way (Davsto) or the momentum gained feels unnatural and people are giving stupid reasons for getting on the wagon (BNL).

[Postie]

You have an extra pair of eyes though, so I think it's a fair trade-off.

Anyway

VOTE: GuiltyLion

I don't know what happened yesterday but this needs to die. Aristophanes, your intent lasted all of like 7 minutes; don't ever hammer like that again.

[Postie]

Postie - who will you look at when I flip town?

H&H, same question.

Flubber, most likely. At this point I have reason to townread pretty much everyone except you and him.

[Postie]

Also I don't have the double vote.

[Postie]

normally town!Postie is a lot more paranoid from what I've seen

Now that you mention it, I am having some paranoia set in about H&H because they weren't nightkilled. o.e

[Postie]

Really?

sori ;-;

Postie, walk me through your townread on me and your scumread on GL please.

K I'll try to make a readslist now so all my thoughts make more sense.

[Postie]

Okay here we are...

H&H: While I've never actually played a scum game with RC, in the ones I've read I remember his thoughts being a lot more superficial and overly arrogant, and I'm not seeing that here.
Just re-read the BBT case, and I think I thought it was different to the case he did on me because I was getting those kinds of vibes off it, which I'm not feeling with his case on me.

TheCow / SS: I thought TheCow's thoughts came across as really open and unfiltered. I'm not sure how to explain why but I think I'd have expected scum!Cow to be a bit more hesitant, withdrawn, or cautious.

Aristo:

if he faked that townslip earlier he would have had to assume someone who played scum previously was in the game even though he clearly hasn't read Worsneak 1. Plus...

He's radiating a self-assured confidence that I don't think it would be easy for scum to fake.

... this.

Basically still this.

Lane:

Ok then theres a good chance that are scum. Anyone that wants to push me is free to do so, but they're either scum, or they're the worst mafia player of all time. Or they've just never seen my scum and town game

Lane's arrogance feels town. Scum sometimes act arrogant, but it usually feels overdone or fake. This seems genuine.

That.

Which just leaves Flubber and GL.

Prefer GL over Flubber because

I think in a lot of places GL's case on BNL is trying to apply to general principles about what's scummy to BNL without considering him on an individual level. It feels fake.

[Postie]

I remember his thoughts being a lot more superficial and overly arrogant, and I'm not seeing that here.

you don't think him calling me 100% confirmed scum is overly arrogant?

I'm not saying he isn't arrogant as town; it's just that when he's scum it gets dialed up by a significant amount.

I think in a lot of places GL's case on BNL is trying to apply to general principles about what's scummy to BNL without considering him on an individual level. It feels fake.

I want you to expand on this more, what about BNL individually should I have been considering?

It's really difficult for me to explain, but this is the kind of stuff I mean:

I haven't been paying much attention to him this game, so I am currently null on him.

As for now, I'm still undecided on Ari. And the main reason I've not been paying much attention to Ari is because I was paying more attention elsewhere.

^there's a lot of thought process missing here. Where was BNL paying attention elsewhere? like if he thinks scum is outside of Ari, then that means he should believe Ari is a mislynch and be fighting against it, or at least voicing a problem with it.

No. I am still undecided on Aristophanes, and gun to head I'd call him town. I mean, he does sound like a legit VI, but he's been here for more than a year so. Then again, I doubt he would be able to fake the townslip as I doubt he read the previous game.

Even this is still hedgey and waffley. I don't know why BNL wouldn't say he's just outright townreading Ari.

Like, the reasons you've given for not liking these things make sense, but at the same time, I absolutely do not see them as uncharacteristic of BNL and they're not the kind of things I'd look at and go "yeah, this feels like scum-BNL".

[Postie]

also if S_S doesn't claim the doublevote then that means scum have it

Either that or an extremely irresponsible townie that we don't want to trust with L-1 (*cougharistophanescough*).

[Postie]

Sure, but I guess what I'm looking for is what made you think it was town-BNL? You're saying that I was making sense, but you had BNL as null and me as scum. Why were you more confident in him being town than me?

I'm not sure I understand.

[Postie]

I'm not sure I understand.

Why were you

not

scumreading BNL? What were you considering that would make him town that I wasn't?

I just had no real reasons to scumread him. I didn't think he did anything particularly towny or scummy.

[Postie]

I didn't really know

how

to sort him.

[Postie]

So then how were you saying my way of sorting him was wrong?

I mean, the conclusion I reached was obviously wrong. But you were criticizing me scumreading him without having a better alternative in mind yourself. Feels like it could be WK-ing.

I'm not saying your way of sorting him was wrong. My scumread on you has never been about the

way

you sorted him. It's the reasons you gave for scumreading him that I have a problem with.
Although I'm not sure I'm following your logic here either - "a scummy way of sorting someone is less scummy than not sorting them"? What?

I agree with a lot of what you've said about the BnL thing, but the fundamental thing with GL is that I feel like he was doing it in a really storytelling manner; he was describing everything that went through with a clear BnL scum agenda and it felt really disingenuous and strongarmy. GL doesn't usually talk like that either.

I wasn't sure what you meant by this earlier, but I think I see it now. Yeah. I don't remember him talking that way in previous games.

But definitely want to hear more from you Postie.

Is there anything in particular you want me to weigh in on?

[Postie]

Also this seems to be a contradiction from what you said earlier. You said my reasons made sense but felt fake. Now you're saying my reasons were the problem. Can you try to elaborate?

Your reasons are the problem

because

they feel fake.

Ugh I'm so

so

sick of this crap, it's showing up in all of my games. What,

specifically

, is tangibly different about my play this game than "previous games"?

It's very, very difficult to describe. It's like a weird shift in how you're speaking that's hard to explain other than as what RC said about it being "story-tellingy". Sorry.

[Postie]

Which posts in this game feel story-tellingy?

RC beat me to it. Most of the posts quoted gave me that feel.

Postie, why do I feel like you're trying to avoid engaging me now? ugh.

Idk, what should I be doing? You said you wanted my opinions on "everything", which is vague enough that I have no idea what you want at all.

Also Postie, why are you apologizing to me for not being able to adequately explain your scumread to me if you think I'm scum?

Is there a reason I shouldn't? idgi.

[Postie]

I'm not at all comfortable with you just following me on bandwagons like you did in 558.

Yeah, I figured you might be wary me here because of that. I don't think it's a scum-Postie thing though; I'm just better with townreads, so I quite often end up sheeping other people's scumreads.

[Postie]

If GL flips scum, I don't think Aristophanes is scum. I doubt GL would be defending him this hard if they were partners. If GL genuinely thinks he's going to be lynched today, I think he'd be making an effort to distance instead.

If I'm wrong I'll probably be looking the group of S_S/lane/Flubber for two scums

^ Your second scum can probably be found here.

[Postie]

Still townreading lane for the reasons I gave earlier.

[Postie]

I think that the opposite is way more likely.
If he thinks that he's going down which he has made clear, he would most likely NOT try to distance in such a way because it's the obvious thing to do when he knows he's going down.
Hard defending makes a ton more sense because it would put us into a situation where we'd be expected to think 'Oh there's no way that scum would hard defend while going down.
And the way he's not really fighting his lynch strikes me as him having an agenda that involves him being lynched, which suggests you or Aristo again.
Plus Aristophanes has been scummy as shit over two days and the BnL hammer was fairly terrible.

Hmmn, I suppose that's a good point. I might be biased because I have a decently strong townread on Aristo. And terrible as that hammer was, I can kind-of understand the reason he gave for it later, because it's basically what I did with Bellaphant in pisskop's game.

Just because of the arrogance thing?

Like, urgh. I'm not saying that you're scum here or that your read isn't genuine but I need more from you.

I'm not sure what more I can say. I think "OMG why am I not being townread I'm so obviously town" is a town mentality that's pretty difficult for scum to fake convincingly.

[Postie]

If you're right and I'm scum, there's nothing to be sorry for. So why apologize?

I wasn't sure how to explain something properly. How does your flip change that?

Also, are you scumreading H&H?

[Postie]

Hmmn. I'm asking because I'm having a hard time deciding what I think of this:

That's gonna make you look really terrible when I flip town

It's the kind of psychologically manipulative bullshit I'd expect of RC, but not you. If you're scumreading H&H then it makes more sense, but I'm still struggling to see the town motivation.

[Postie]

Hmmn. I'm asking because I'm having a hard time deciding what I think of this:

That's gonna make you look really terrible when I flip town

It's the kind of psychologically manipulative bullshit I'd expect of RC, but not you. If you're scumreading H&H then it makes more sense, but I'm still struggling to see the town motivation.

Huh. Turns out you

have

done this before. In EIAL2. As scum.

I haven't seen you do any real scumhunting Postie, and now you're just attacking the only person calling you out for it, hoping you can lynch me to shut me up. That's what scum does.

Actually this whole thing between you and RC here reminds me a lot of the thing between you and me in that game.

[Postie]

Actually this whole thing between you and RC here reminds me a lot of the thing between you and me in that game.

Although I suppose you were a self-janitor that game, so you had more motive to paint me as scum because you thought your alignment wouldn't be revealed.

Postie, what is the point of arguing with me about my alignment? It's clear to me that nothing I will do will change you or H&H's opinion, so just lynch me and scumhunt eachother.

Most of this arguing isn't for

your

sake; I'm collecting my thoughts for myself and others so we can move forward.

[Postie]

I'll keep my vote where it is for now, but dammit, that reaction was pretty town. I have some thinking to do.

[Postie]

I'll keep my vote where it is for now, but dammit, that reaction was pretty town. I have some thinking to do.

How is it pretty town at all?

Walk me through this. I think him assuming that he'd both be on the receiving end of the doublevote AND mixing up the number of votes is fake as fuck and just a last ditch attempt to gambit up some towncred.

I thought him not claiming cop and trying to get all his words in seemed town, but on second thoughts, if he knew he wasn't at L-1 and/or wasn't going to be hammered because he's scum and scum have the double vote, then not claiming makes more sense. I didn't think trying to get all his words in so clumsily made sense as an attempt at grabbing towncred because it's a detriment to his chances of getting the double vote if he isn't lynched; I guess it could be WIFOM though, since surviving the lynch and not getting the double vote is better than not surviving. Ack I'm bad with WIFOM. Whatever. I guess we just ignore it and lynch him anyway.

[Postie]

Prodge.

I'll get to this soon!

[Postie]

Did you just hammer without intent? Ffs.

[Postie]

They didn't hammer so probably scum

GL wasn't at L-1 when that happened so they couldn't have hammered. Are you reading the game?

[Postie]

I'm a little annoyed I didn't get to put all my words in, but I sucked enough at finding words yesterday that it probably doesn't matter.

[Postie]

But... but they didn't have the majority of votes. I don't understand.

[Postie]

I was the cop too. I'm even more bummed about that hammer now, because if I'd have gotten all my words in I might have been able to steal the double vote again. I didn't claim it on day 2 in case scum claimed cop at L-1 and I needed to anonihammer.

[Postie]

You didn't force the words in in twilight?

That was an option? O-O

Also, night actions?

Night 1: Davsto
Night 2: Flubbernugget

[Postie]

What was your final read on us?

As of GL's flip, null. I had lane and Aristo as town, you and SS in null, and Flubber in scum. Cop'd my scumread because I was worried we might have ended up with an Aristo mislynch otherwise.
Sorry to disappoint.

[Postie]

I'm not counting this as a win unless Postie was nearly 100% sure we were town.
My only goal this game was to have her townread me and feel the same betrayal that I did.

Remind me to never believe you when you say you're "over" anything ever again.

[Postie]

No, it's because she said she'd be ok being lynched if she had to stop being a distraction.

Ugh.

To be fair, you made me feel so guilty about scumreading you that I was half serious.

[Postie]

Okay, I am totally and brutally taking you down the next time we play as opposite alignments.

[Postie]

Will there be a Word Sneak 3, Aero? Can I /pre-in?

[Postie]

Maybe in a little while! I'm currently modding like four games, and I need to let some die down a bit

Ah, okay. Thanks for modding by the way! It was fun to have the double vote in play this game, even if I never used it.

For the record, I went overboard trying to play you emotionally because I was salty over our last.

Well, you succeeded. D:

[Postie]

Then this is officially a reverse 558.

Haha, it's fine though.

I'll just make a blood-sworn oath to defeat you in the most ingenious, twisted way possible the next time we're pitted against each other.

[Postie]

You can have it when I retire from Mafia.

[Postie]

I'd say now, after playing it again, that there is a problem with the double vote - town having the double vote likely provides little help unless their read is right. Scum having the double vote allows them to win a day early.

Also, yeah, this. :/

[Postie]

Took a while for the thread to open - who would take so long to confirm? Scum setting up an elaborate plan, that's who.

VOTE: RadiantCowbells

wait

VOTE: Halos and Horns

I knew it!

[Postie]

You can pry it from my cold, dead hands.

[Postie]

I will make my own spreadsheet about you.

Then I'll make it public if you don't share mine

I would love to see this.