Mini 1853: Trial of the Evoker [Game Over]

[BATORU]

omg there are abilities like that? jeeze. Well it's not on Sondam so VOTE: sondam but please out to everyone ahead of time who you give that to so we don't accidentally hammer anyone.

This theme is really awesome and I'm going to try not to be a complete deadweight this time

-"tama"

predit: oh yeah you're right they would I'm dumb

[BATORU]

I can't tell you what to say

I'd expect people to question it at least a little or have ideas on what to do with it, though. I feel like that's normal

Well it's effectively an extra vote that you choose the day before. You wanna put it on a scumread that actually has the potential to get lynched IMO because if you give it to scum and then they don't get lynched, they get an extra vote. Other than that I have no idea what you're getting at 'cause I'm dumb

-tama

predit: Yup. Hiya dunnstral! You're trolling me right?

[BATORU]

wait really? I was so sure I hadn't gotten another PM before that one and that you had culted Zachstral and found out he was mafia that way O____O

I still...kind of think you're trolling me tbh.

-tama

[BATORU]

OH MY GOD YOU'RE RIGHT AHAHAHAHAHAHJGFHDSLSZ;

-tama

[BATORU]

I don't think we should claim our spells. We all have different ones that probably interact in interesting ways and I don't believe nahdia would want or expect us to all claim our spells even if it were optimal

[BATORU]

That was Tama. ^^

Precursory TRs on both the people that did claim though. Maybe those two claims were fine but I don't think anyone else should right now.

-tama

[BATORU]

oh wait I just realized something

@Mod

if we send a spell to a scum, do they keep it even after they lose it?

[BATORU]

-tama

fml

[BATORU]

after they use it***

sorry ;_;

[BATORU]

Does everyone get a spell in their spellbook after it has been cast on them? I wish I could permanently have the spell like Chrollo from Hunter X Hunter XD

Yeah

[BATORU]

if we send a spell to a scum, do they keep it even after they lose it?

? Why would they

It says the rules don't apply to dark magic and it looks like dark magic refers to the scumteam
the other post was by me

-tama

(actually you can probably just assume all unsigned posts from this account are by me unless Jaereed's online and I'm not lol)

[BATORU]

FRICK
-tama

[BATORU]

I'm almost certain votes don't get all given to the person that gets voted

That doesn't sound like a game concept that would work

This.

It also says it's non-compulsory and unlimited in the description. So it's just the flavor saying we have votes.

[BATORU]

...-tama

I'm sorry

[BATORU]

I think we can all agree tiny children are p cute. Nosferatu's avatar is also RELEVANT to the theme of this game



-tama

predit: we shouldn't claim spells unless being lynched, like (I think?) you said. My assumption would be nahdia wouldn't want us to... maybe I just don't know site meta well enough though

[BATORU]

oh yeah that makes sense oops. And yes the theme of the game from my understanding is that when we target people wiht a spell, we also pass it on to them.

I actually thought there was more town motivation in claiming that because if town spells do target you accidentally, it hurts town.

-Tama

Picking up slips for my partner.

[BATORU]

VOTE: dunn


your mother would have risked missing and breaking her arm

I dunnot think dunn is scum this game

partly just for his claim, partly on tone

tho I sort of misread him the other game in that he was 3p and i "dunno" if my other head agrees

-tama

[BATORU]

Both of us tend to get weak reads that change throughout the game

I disagree w my hydra buddy about iron but the logic is that his claim was apparently more scum-motivated in their eyes

-Tama

Both of us tend to get weak reads that change throughout the game

I disagree w my hydra buddy about iron but the logic is that his claim was apparently more scum-motivated in their eyes

-Tama

gdi

[BATORU]

Both of us tend to get weak reads that change throughout the game

I disagree w my hydra buddy about iron but the logic is that his claim was apparently more scum-motivated in their eyes

-Tama

Bleh you misunderstand. I said anti-town, not scum-motivated. iron not claiming could have turned a scum kill back on them if we assume their factional kill is a spell (which I do because even our votes are spells). He's null to me which is why I said I dislike Frozen's vote on him. That and the fact she's not doing as much as I expect from her.

VOTE: Mega Frozen

Grats on the boy btw!

@Nosferatu Other things had happened in the game. Dunn was a good vote on page 1 following the post you quoted... It's like 3 pages later and you chose that of all things to follow up on? Also; you just negated any pressure Dunn might have felt from the wagon forming on him by claiming you don't scumread him for it. So you're wagoning for the sake of wagoning? What do you expect to get from that?

@pisskop Same deal. By outing that you don't have reads you just negated the pressure on Dunn. Why?

[BATORU]

FUCK ME. That was me.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

Anyone who thinks Dunn didn't scum claim in that post is scum with him.

~G

yo ru you forgot to sign your post!!!!

-tama

oops

[BATORU]

Hello noobs lucky for you all we are part of the town I guess I won't get an easy scum win this game
~M

I'd vote you for this post if i didn't know we were town

~G

LOL this is town I had the same comment to Impo in hydra chat earlier.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

FUCK ME. That was me.

~Ruko

Which is Ruko

It's not obvious from the tryhard post?

~R

[BATORU]

and Ru was being an idiot when they made that comment to me too so it's exactly the same thing. Also JR's ruko

-Tama

[BATORU]

oh shit sorry.

[BATORU]

UNVOTE: sondam

let's not lynch town

[BATORU]

Oh god. I'm really trying, I swear. That was me.

-Tama

[BATORU]

UNVOTE: sondam

let's not lynch town

....pay attention when I tell you I'm moving our vote -.-

VOTE: Mega Frozen

~Ruko

Oh god that is actually really embarrassing when it happens.

[BATORU]

Ruko informed me that entrance was NAI for you but I have my eye on you Fire Assassin

How does it feel that after you read everything, to still be wrong.

Scum claim?

Scum claiming as a joke is not a scumtell even if Sondam flips scum

-Tama

predit: THAT WASN'T ME

[BATORU]

Change the hydra's background color? or use a different internet browser

I use firefox for the hydra and chrome for my main and it still happened q.q

~Ruko

[BATORU]

@FA Wasn't scum indicative in your case to want annoying town dead, which is what I assume Tama found scummy about your opening.

@Prism I can't chat with Dunn outside the game about my hydra slips.... That's ongoing game discussion. And some people get really shitty if they can't tell who a post in a hydra is coming from, so I'm going to continue to sign them. Also picking up slips is important for when people ISO you.

~Ru

pedit - I wish firebringer was here... I wanna ask him how's life.

[BATORU]

I'm getting cold feet on the Frozen wagon, pun intended, but I'm not unvoting while Sondam is the alternative.

-Tama

[BATORU]

@Pisskop: you're saying Fire tryhards as scum? because

@Fire: I TR sondam at the moment (read subject to change because it's Sondam), but not just for "trolling." I'm pretty sure both of Sondam's heads are capable of trolling as scum and generally do. And I don't think really blatant, superficial playstyle attributes are generally tells. You're more experienced than me so feel free to expound.

Fire might just be someone I naturally scumread.

Unfortunately my hydra partner isn't here to converse with on this.

.....i'm trying t obe more conservative with posting but poor jaereed's going to come back to miles of spam i can't ask them to read

-Tama

[BATORU]

Do what?

n to go into detail I'm not unvoting you because I find you to be a better wagon than any of the ones currently forming + because I know JR sr's you and i'd feel weird voting someone else w/o their permission

-tama

[BATORU]

wait I thought Pisskop was townreading fire. oops. I was informed in pregame that Fire tryhards on this account as opposed to on Firebringer

Maybe I should iso my TRs just to check on that...

wow so many posts everything i wanted to say is outdated

[/snip]

I was physically pained by reading this.

SAME

oh yeah and someone linked the post where you asked if this hydra was from wixoss and I don't think either of us ever replied so: yes

-tama

[BATORU]

im gonna invoke the infuriatingly silly spell called a figure of speech for a moment and say nosferatu is my spirit animal

sadly I have no idea if they're town or not

-Tama

[BATORU]

not entirely sure what to make of that reaction, reads-wise

also jaereed told me firebringer tryhards on that account

and i don't think someone being blatantly different like that is likely to be a real cause for SR or TR

-tama

[BATORU]

fair enough

I googled "define metabreak" and even google gave me the cold shoulder because of how much I was an idiot I was being for not seeing that it's...people...breaking...their meta.

-tama

[BATORU]

@Prism I can't chat with Dunn outside the game about my hydra slips.... That's ongoing game discussion.

I'm referring to between your heads.

Uh, only time I did that outside of hydra chat was to also inform the game why I was revoting Frozen. Because people tend to not pay attention.

pedit - I wish firebringer was here... I wanna ask him how's life.

I'll ask for him:
How's life Jaereed?

Tell him life's pretty good and thanks for asking! <3

Reading up from here now
~Ru

[BATORU]

Bleh you misunderstand. I said anti-town, not scum-motivated. iron not claiming could have turned a scum kill back on them if we assume their factional kill is a spell (which I do because even our votes are spells). He's null to me which is why I said I dislike Frozen's vote on him.

That and the fact she's not doing as much as I expect from her.

What is the thing you expect from me?

I tried to pretend Iron spell claim was scummy to me to make him talk and he contradicted himself. I want that slot to talk - if your null reading him whats the deal?

and thanks!

Btw I'm catching up and won't answer anything new you tell before that.

#Frozen

It felt like you were fluffing a lot and too concerned about how iron's ability worked. I didn't like that. Your vote on him felt contrived also because I couldn't see you actually thinking what he did was scummy rather than just anti-town, which makes sense if you didn't actually think the claim was scummy, I guess.

In comparison to Shadowrun where you very quickly started doing things to help town and were really obvtown in the process this just feels like early game you were sitting back and blending in more with the mechanics talk if that makes sense? I liked you prodding iron about massclaiming but I think that was a relatively easy post for you to have made as scum too.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

UNVOTE: frozen

*shivers*

-tama

[BATORU]

Help me pressure it

idunno what the L- is and both ru and i agree there are scummier people around (+ certain behaviors around the wagon are weird)

[BATORU]

VOTE: Ironstove
I think this is frozen's town game

This guy is scum and drealmer can die too

Agreed

-tama

[BATORU]

OK wait what

Ironstove why are you suddenly THAT certain after not posting all game???

-tama

[BATORU]

My reasoning was based on the fact that his only content post was to join a BW that was already pretty far along and he only agreed with old arguments used rather than having any personal take on it + was outwardly nonchalant with the justification it was d1 despite it being as far as I felt like it was. I didn't love his posts after mine either for what I think are reasons you share. Town shouldn't give up that easily.

JR disagrees though. We're having a lot of reads dissonance at the moment I think.

VOTE: nosferatu

Shoot, sorry.

(-tama)

[BATORU]

"Town shouldn't give up that easily" was a general comment directed more at ironstove than Prism, not an explanation

nosferatu is one of the few votes we both agree on but my read came earlier so I'd be pressed to explain it well now. I'll try in a bit.

-tama

[BATORU]

you are pretty serious this game and its really unwonted and uncharacteristic.

IKR ?

I said the exact same thing and 20 players attacked it from every corner. I was starting to feel crazy. thanks for this

#white

the way frozen has been reacting to the foses (with the mindset that they're town and a lot of "am I crazy?" and "find another ML to push"-type stuff + some other posts I'd have to go back and quote to explain) and the lack of resistance to the wagon that i perceived + JaeReed thought your vote on the wagon was odd and I don't think it was SvS odd. It's not really a fullblown townread but I'm wavering and liked Dunn's post overall.

[BATORU]

I'll pop in with what I know from hydra chat.

Tama found 229 to be towny from Frozen and asked me to have a look at it, i agreed it seems genuine. I found 254 to be more gut town AtE given I've had kinda the same feelings towards friends when playing that I think are coming through with that post which when I brought up to them they seemed to see where I was coming from there. I liked 271 and noted it to Tama as it's consideration that she might be misunderstanding something and taking a step back to re-evaluate which I feel scum are less inclined to do. I disliked 277 though because it feels rolefishy, and Tama agreed that was bad too.

So I'd say overall, there's things we both like and dislike, but it's leaning more town than not at least for me at this point in the game.

~Ruko

pedit oh tama already responded. Gonna go ahead and post anyway since I went to the effort of finding the posts we were discussing

[BATORU]

I remembered. Nosferatu's reaction to me saying I wasn't sure they were town initially was bad and I didn't like the way they talked about meta assuming I'm right on Fire being town (not sure but my other half's support makes me feel better about it). Something else too I forgot. Nos ur here ppls talk

Why are people voting Iron when he's town? Lol

~G

Why people saying Iron's town when he's not town? Lol

~T

[BATORU]

I wanna know why u think he's town gerry

-tama

Predit: It was bad because I felt like it was scummy at the time.

Your reaction implies focus on people's reads on you (which was supported by a lack of direction in your posting from when I ISOd you earlier) and a lack of sincerity. The latter could be because it was joke-esque, but it didn't feel like it flowed naturally.

I'm really bad at explaining myself now i kind of dread posting this

whatevs

[BATORU]

Frozen's play is probably worth a metadive and I'll try to get around to it another day. To answer Gamma, I did RQS because I thought it would be useful. I didn't spend too much time thinking them up, they were just the first ones I thought of in 2-3 minutes, but they all have a purpose. What answer did you expect from a scum vs. town me here?

I'm not, but I want to see frozen lynched and if me flipping town proves my fos isn't scum motivated then maybe you guys will listen.

This is a pretty big overreaction. Does your FOS have even a 50% chance of being mafia? If you're town, there's 9 other town and 3 mafia. I wouldn't be so eager to jump into giving us something that's likely a double mislynch. Saying this just makes me want to lynch you hoping you're mafia and then subsequently discard your FoS if you flip town, and that's not the thought you want to inspire in anyone.[quote="In

VOTE: Ironstove
I think this is frozen's town game

This guy is scum

Agreed

Can you expound on this? The reasoning isn't immediately clear to me.

This is a pretty scummy post. How exactly can I determine if my fos has a '50% chance they are mafia'?

What is this bs that you are pulling out of your a$$?

You can determine what your read on them is given the fact that there are more town than mafia.

Why would you risk burning out at least 1 and possibly 2 MLs just to get your scumread lynched "after you flip town" when your scumread isn't even certain? It's d1, and there was already a wagon on your scumread, and there are 3 mafia.

[BATORU]

-Tama

[BATORU]

Your alignment? Your internal reaction to someone saying they don't TR you?

-tama

[BATORU]

Your reaction implies focus on people's reads on you (which was supported by a lack of direction in your posting from when I ISOd you earlier) and a lack of sincerity. The latter could be because it was joke-esque, but it didn't feel like it flowed naturally.

well you're half right; I tend to respond when people talk about me, a sort of cocktail effect.

Sure, I do that as town, but I don't feel the need to respond when I have nothing to say.

-tama

[BATORU]

No, but I start to scumread people when I think responses look like they put time/effort into trying to look town.

And when they dumbtell about why I think something.

[BATORU]

No, but I start to scumread people when I think responses look like they put time/effort into trying to look town.

And when they dumbtell about why I think something.

did me calling your dilemma over your read on this slot a "quandary of the century" seem like me putting time and effort to look town?

It looked like you paying attention to your response. No one else is questioning what I mean here and my trying to explain it cogently would probably be a wasted effort.

You're still on a liability-vote. Or do you think drealmer is scum?

[BATORU]

(with the mindset that they're town and a lot of "am I crazy?" and "find another ML to push"-type stuff + some other posts I'd have to go back and quote to explain)

Do mafia go out of their way to look like they have a mafia mindset?

JaeReed thought your vote on the wagon was odd and I don't think it was SvS odd.

What's odd about it? I explained it pretty clearly (and more than once, out of necessity).

Jumping to considering SvS here is really puzzling to me as well, unless you scumread both of us which is not what you've expressed

.

I actually didn't want that outed so early but eh I didn't exactly tell my hydra partner that I was taking the wait and see approach there so that's my bad. I'll leave the first section for her.

My issue with your vote on the wagon was that it felt very opportunistic. The general feel of the thread seemed to just start edging towards more people scumreading Mega Frozen. Fire Assassin outed a scumread on them, and then you voted following that, whilst citing a post that you had previously responded to with seeming polite gratitude as a reason. It didn't sit right with me. It felt like you were trying to find a reason to go with the flow and blend in.

I don't get what you mean by the underlined. What do you feel we've expressed that rules out considering possible partner interactions at that time?

~Ruko

[BATORU]

batoru looks overreachy in his push on nos. but it doesnt look self aware

thanks, aihdan

because I'm having trouble communicating

-tama

[BATORU]

*drealer* looks overreachy in his push on nos. but it doesnt look self aware

thanks, aihdan

ebwop

oh

[BATORU]

No, but I start to scumread people when I think responses look like they put time/effort into trying to look town.

And when they dumbtell about why I think something.

did me calling your dilemma over your read on this slot a "quandary of the century" seem like me putting time and effort to look town?

It looked like you paying attention to your response. No one else is questioning what I mean here and my trying to explain it cogently would probably be a wasted effort.

You're still on a liability-vote. Or do you think drealmer is scum?

yeah but you literally just said you scum read people for spending effort to look town. shitposting ironically about your indecisiveness over your read on me isn't very convincing in any universe, unless you're willing to explain how.

Where did I "shitpost ironically"?

That one response isn't the ONLY thing that makes me feel odd about you and I think I said that.

do you want me to be sincere or not? On one hand I'm supposed to help you town read me(??) and then on the other if I'm trying to look town that's scummy. If you don't see the clear dichotomy in your arguments idk what to even say.

When in the world did I say you need to help me townread you intentionally?

Also dunn was not a liability-vote but dreamer is.

No but dunn was an RVS vote, wasn't he?

If it makes you happier, I can say it was gut, because that's what I would have if given the choice originally.

-Tama

[BATORU]

Since Gamma's gone solo it's made me feel better about it.

???

[BATORU]

IIRC Gamma's posting made me like the slot more, not less.

1. The intent/usefulness of the questions is more visible in that game

This was what provoked the original vote on her from me at least. In Shadowrun mafia when she replaced in she asked a lot of questions to get up to speed and proceeded to attempt gamesolving pretty quickly from there. Here she was asking a lot of questions that felt they were going nowhere.

Oh man, Im not going to make a case for them, but I townread them and I can think of several reasons why Id want to kill somebody who is overroleplaying.

What? Are you saying you townread drealmer? Why?

I like Dunn's push on Nos. It touches on my scumread of him. Reading up properly now that I have time and it's not just on my phone.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

The general feel of the thread seemed to just start edging towards more people scumreading Mega Frozen. Fire Assassin outed a scumread on them, and then you voted following that, whilst citing a post that you had previously responded to with seeming polite gratitude as a reason. It didn't sit right with me. It felt like you were trying to find a reason to go with the flow and blend in.

Let's review the timeline here. In #184 I take issue with a question that to me seemed pretty pointless, in the sense that it didn't help discern my alignment. Frozen immediately responds explaining that it's to see what bothers me.

In post #190, I first pointed out the discrepancy between what I said and Frozen's description.

Additionally, I made it very clear that I only considered Frozen's response to 184 courteous

if true

.

Fire's FoS is given in #217 and I follow it up with my vote in #220

#185 is some pretty accusatory language putting something in my mouth, and while their stated reason behind the question is courteous, I'm not really sure I buy it. My impression of it was that it was a question for the sake of it.

The last part is what you're referring to as strange. Yet, I expressed skepticism of the purpose of the question

twice

before Fire's FoS or my vote, once by asking directly and once by implying I didn't necessarily believe it. The fact I'd cite not believing it, then, should not be a surprise. Additionally, I make it clear in the posts thereafter that the main reason I am voting for them is not the original question but about their description of my statements on Dunn/iron-and expound on that indepth in the subsequent posts, which I considered much worse.

Timeline shows I definitely wasn't just following Fire.

It felt like you were trying to find a reason to go with the flow and blend in.

Following up on this section, what was your judgement of my point on Frozen's misinterpretation of my post (later plausibly explained by Frozen)? Did you not find it scummy prior to resolution? Why not?

With regards to the bolded, apparently you didn't make it clear enough in that post, or we wouldn't be here talking about it. It seemed to me that you were accepting that explanation from Frozen pending further postings.

My issue is that Fire's FoS and scumteam guess in 217 & 218 were followed by the vote on Frozen by you. It felt like you went back at that point, seeing Fire's FoS, to find a post to reconsider as a reason to get on the wagon as it looked like it might pick up.

In fact, I feel like you're either misinterpreting what I was saying originally or twisting it so you can avoid the real issue I have with it. It's not the last part of 220 I found the most suspicious, it was the first part of what you quoted. You had already responded to everything you wrote there, and seemingly accepted Frozen's answers to you, before you then went back and brought it up again

after

Fire outed a scumread on Frozen. Everything from there just looks like attempted post-vote justification to me.

I don't feel your vote was righteous in the moment of casting it. I do feel the timeline definitely shows your vote followed Fire's scumread. I'm not sure why you believe that what you posted shows the opposite, because to me it proves the point I was trying to make? Am I missing something here?

I need to go back and look over it again to refresh my memory as far as the second part, but I really hate this "Did you not find it scummy prior to resolution? Why not?" because it's putting words into my mouth before I've even answered the question. Making a note so I don't forget to do this when I finish catching up proper to answer your question.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

I think the vote spell is unlimited use and cannot be passed on. Only spells for night actions (excluding factional scum dark magic such as nightkills) are passed on compulsively.

I doubt there is a Vigilante spell in this game, though, because it would immediately be destroyed N1 and I doubt Nahdia would want a spell like that. Thus the only kill probably comes from scum's dark magic.

If something like a Cop or a Doc or other role were to land in scum's hands, couldn't they just pass it back and forth between themselves every night, effectively taking out a TPR? If scum cannot target scum then we can break the game by analysing all spell transfers to rule out partners so this is probably possible.

Yes, BTD6 is Town. I'm ready for another exciting game of "is Dunnstral Town".

This sounds like filler of saying nothing.

Who is more likely to have thoughts about vigs? I think scum do.

Role/ability spec like this is scum.

Times where BTD Role/ability specced as town:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p8019897
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p8042059

Times where BTD talked about vigs as town in that game:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p8045708
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p8050301
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p8033307

The first bit that you said was saying nothing I believe was part of the general conversation in the thread at the time, so you either find everyone who was talking about it to have been fillering & scummy rather than speccing about the mechanics, or you find the original person who questioned it and turned the thread focus that way scummy, or you should find it a net null imo.

Dark magic is probably just the scum's factional kill. Scum can probably also use regular spells normally.

I have a problem with this but I can't articulate it, which bothers me; so I'm going to regress to a younger state of development and call you and idiot.
idiot.

So I went back and saw 51 which sounds possible that he knows more than I do about the evil faction. Those 2 posts together warrant my vote.

The reason for my FoS - 87 it sounds possible that Nosferatu is scum-buddies and is GRRR at scum-buddy for talking as they did and this is their way of saying "yooo, careful!" The FoS only becomes meaningful if I am right about BTD6, if I'm wrong about BTD6, it will make Nos a townlean for me because yes, I too "have a problem with this", but I can articulate it, that you can't seems questionable.

What do you think BTD's motivation would be for posting that as scum? What do you think his motivation would be for posting that as town?

Nos didn't seem to be implying here that he found BTD scummy for the post; just that he thought he was an idiot for it. I don't see why BTD flipping town would then make Nos a townlean in that situation. I'd be more wary of him in that case if you believed he meant to imply the post was scummy, because he didn't explicitly call BTD scum, and instead called him an idiot as though he had inside knowledge of BTD's alignment.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

I believe that was mostly me on the MC concerns

You certainly made the additional post expressing frustration over it, but Frozen was the one to follow up on Iron with questioning on whether he was supporting a massclaim or not. I've been primarily reading your slot based off Frozen's contributions as I'm more familiar with her having just finished Shadowrun, and she tends to post a lot more for me to analyze.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

if nosferatu does flip scum I think Pisskop might be his partner. I mean he might not, I just dislike how he came in and sorta started turning attention away w/o really townreading Nos.

I am figuring things out. I just don't have to initiate conversation to do so.

it would make me feel better if you threw us a bone and explained some of the things you've figured out so I could not lynch you if you're not scum.

-tama

FRICK

[BATORU]

I don't get why people are trying to hand out passes to iron. like even a little. dud i miss something

So you believe scum!Iron, as part of a mafia team that need to gain majority to win, decides to just let himself get lynched without a fight this early in the day phase? This is why I don't think he's mafia. The more I think on it, the more I start to think he's probably just town. Town!Iron can afford to let himself get lynched to get his scumread lynched. I can see more potential town motivation than the potential scum motivation, which basically boils down to wifom and ate, which I believe he'd make more of a show of as scum, given my impression of his play in our newbie together.

*drealer* looks overreachy in his push on nos. but it doesnt look self aware

thanks, aihdan

ebwop

hat? Are you saying you townread drealmer? Why?

I think its weak but weak in a way that doesnt realize how bad it is. Not really like scum pushing for blood. It gets townpoints.

Ok just found the prior post that mentioned that.

Why does it get townpoints for not realizing how bad the push is? How would you expect scum pushing for blood to look?

~Ruko

[BATORU]

Spoiler: gamma tellin it like it be

Lynch me then Lynch frozen thanks

OK I don't really see scum doing this sort of 1 for 1
can be town for now

Frozen's play is probably worth a metadive and I'll try to get around to it another day. To answer Gamma, I did RQS because I thought it would be useful. I didn't spend too much time thinking them up, they were just the first ones I thought of in 2-3 minutes, but they all have a purpose. What answer did you expect from a scum vs. town me here?

I expected town you to answer something like "I wanted to do it" or whatever.
I'll be honest here: the use of RQS from you pings my scumdar.
However your arguments seem logical so you are just a scumlean for now.

Frozen's play is probably worth a metadive and I'll try to get around to it another day. To answer Gamma, I did RQS because I thought it would be useful. I didn't spend too much time thinking them up, they were just the first ones I thought of in 2-3 minutes, but they all have a purpose. What answer did you expect from a scum vs. town me here?

I'm not, but I want to see frozen lynched and if me flipping town proves my fos isn't scum motivated then maybe you guys will listen.

This is a pretty big overreaction. Does your FOS have even a 50% chance of being mafia? If you're town, there's 9 other town and 3 mafia. I wouldn't be so eager to jump into giving us something that's likely a double mislynch. Saying this just makes me want to lynch you hoping you're mafia and then subsequently discard your FoS if you flip town, and that's not the thought you want to inspire in anyone.[quote="In

VOTE: Ironstove
I think this is frozen's town game

This guy is scum

Agreed

Can you expound on this? The reasoning isn't immediately clear to me.

This is a pretty scummy post. How exactly can I determine if my fos has a '50% chance they are mafia'?

What is this bs that you are pulling out of your a$$?

You can determine what your read on them is given the fact that there are more town than mafia.

Why would you risk burning out at least 1 and possibly 2 MLs just to get your scumread lynched "after you flip town" when your scumread isn't even certain? It's d1, and there was already a wagon on your scumread, and there are 3 mafia.

It's just confbiased town dw

~Ruko

[BATORU]

It felt like you were trying to find a reason to go with the flow and blend in.

Following up on this section, what was your judgement of my point on Frozen's misinterpretation of my post (later plausibly explained by Frozen)? Did you not find it scummy prior to resolution? Why not?

If you're asking about the point itself rather than the timing and suspicion I have that you went back to just grab something to justify a vote upon seeing the thread start to lean toward a Frozen wagon... Ehn.

I can see you thinking that Frozen was misrepping you, but also I feel like there's no scum motivation in her doing so, as it's something that you could easily go back and fact check and present the argument that you just did. I don't feel like Frozen would need to blatantly make things up regardless of alignment, and while the language is accusatory that's also how Frozen tends to type.

So no, that particular point was null since I have played with Frozen before and thought it was more likely to be a misunderstanding due to the language barrier than her twisting facts. I haven't seen her scumgame though, so that's basically conjecture on my part. Fire might have a more definite answer on that one.

As far as your reasoning there, if you're scum the motivation is that you have something that is generally seen as highly justifiable to make a vote off of and push. Combine that with the timing and you have my thoughts on it. If you're town then you thought she was misrepping you, so I guess my question to you is do you find misreps to be inherently scummy?

~Ruko

[BATORU]

My point on Frozen was not that they were intentionally misrepresenting my statement, but rather that it was almost certainly

unintentional

. My point is that if they were trying to "get in my head" or understand me as they claimed, it would be a much harder mistake to make.

Ok, so you claim that because Frozen could not emulate your thought process she is less likely to be town from your pov, as her stated reasoning for her questions was to attempt to figure out the way you think?

Don't like Dunn's jump to my defense. Coming right after Sondam voiced suspicion, Batoru eat your heart out.

VOTE: Dunnstral

I mean... I wouldn't necessarily say the thread seems to be turning toward Dunnstral right now. The self-righteous "scumread me idc" kinda attitude here is more likely town though I think. Will see what I think in the morning but basically I think it's harder for scum to fake that kind of feeling. Smith brought up a thing on tonereading here that might explain what I mean better.

What don't you like about Dunn's jump to your defense? How do you feel about Sondam stating Dunn is scum then voting BTD6? Thoughts on iron?

~Ruko

[BATORU]

@drealmer did you read my post response to you regarding BTD?

~Ruko

[BATORU]

what no why are we wagoning sondam

i mean ok i could be wrong n they haven't posted much lately but there are people i actually sr and sondam will be useful later if they're town

-tama

[BATORU]

I find a lot of times scum don't think before posting and are just excited to talk about the things without realizing it's scummy to talk about the things / or that they might give slips if they talk about the things. I find this is what is possible here, that he didn't realize he had terminology available to him that was not available to others and went to talk as if it was shared knowledge when it wasn't. It's been a bit now I should probably go re-read and see how it all progressed and if I still feel that way about it.

wait he had information that wasn't available to us? I didn't catch that. that's a completely different thing from just talking about mechs and setup spec early game tho i guess the latter's scummy. i thought u were just saying BTD was scum fofr mech filler

-tama

[BATORU]

Hey look gamma flipped town good to know!
I don't have any reads I've been skimming I'll leave that to Gerry
but I will vote this
VOTE: Wisdom
Why do you sr us friend?
~M

i mean i skimmed the setup stuff but wasn't he just speculating? it was like, sorta something scum tend to do but definitely far from "knowing things we don't" and automatically worth suspicion on its own.

also there's so much wrong with everything going on right now jfc guys.

i'll catch up when i get back. i thought i'd be more active with reads this game but jaereed's doing all the work ;____;

[BATORU]

far from being* automatically worth suspicion on its own

tama

[BATORU]

Can you link a game where is?

~G

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p8031286

D1 in a game I played with him where he was town. My meta on him is probably somewhat stale but there are certain things for him that I think are NAI in general and the use of "weak" when specifying his reads early on is one of them. As is the vig and setup spec stuff.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

ironstove is scum not bad.

you scumread sondam once when they were town so they could still be town here. I don't like them not posting and i'll be pissed if htey're doing it as scum, but for now i think it's leantown.

-tama

[BATORU]

My hydra partner thinks iron's "been more town than scum so far"
i
am
so
f*cking

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[BATORU]

There's NO ACKNOWLEDGEMENT.

not acknowledging your vote in a post isn't particularly scummy. i do it all the time as either alignment or at least as town but probably scum too

but i guess it might be indicative of not being SvS

-tama

[BATORU]

I agree hes probably town

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[BATORU]

i'm gonna be proven to be a totally off-base idiot later but no one agrees with my reads so it doesn't matter i guess

[BATORU]

I agree that BTD and Dunn are town

This implies you don't agree with Iron being town. Why?

~Ruko

[BATORU]

Because it seemed like you were only agreeing with those reads.

Can you go into why you think Sondam is scum? I've played with both heads before and spectated both of their scum games and I feel they both strongly prefer playing scum and wouldn't disappear like they have been. I can link you a game if you're interested. I think Maria especially is quite obvious as scum and she seems to be genuine here. Questioning her other head on the Dunnstral read repeatedly is one thing that stands out which I don't think would be happening if they were scum.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

Disappeared in the looser sense of the word I guess. They have been not posting as much as I would expect from either of them. There was one point where neither posted for a day (went from 17th to 19th for me) and then there was one post for the day without anything more... I just don't think both heads are this useless as scum, which is a role they prefer. I can see them both as town not feeling the game, though.

https://epicmafia.com/topic/80150?page=2&_pjax=%23posts

By page 8 you should be able to understand what I'm talking about with Ripple/Maria being obvious as scum I think.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

BATORU I've only lost once as scum on this site and that was in a hydra if you're gonna try and read me because I'm not obv scum to you try again cause it'd be really really easy to trick you.
I also did that last game too in the game that vegged so!
~M

Were you scum in the game that was mod abandoned?

~Ruko

[BATORU]

BATORU I've only lost once as scum on this site and that was in a hydra if you're gonna try and read me because I'm not obv scum to you try again cause it'd be really really easy to trick you.
I also did that last game too in the game that vegged so!
~M

are you claiming scum

literally idk about ruko bc ruko sometime exaggerates and i'm not caught up but i have never said it's not possible you're mafia and i've been actively considering the possibility in hydra chat and you're complaining that this slot isn't on your lynch????

I don't think i can read you well. I don't see why you'd complain about people thinking you're town early on in a game where you're getting wagoned if we're reading you correctly.

-tama

[BATORU]

You are legit driving me mad, Tama. I'm not exaggerating. I think Maria is absolutely shit at playing scum and would make herself obvious early on. I haven't seen anything so far to make me question my opinion of her in that regard unless P5 she was somehow scum in.

She's not complaining that we're not on her lynch, I think she's complaining that I don't think she's good as scum. Also, what reason would she have for complaining about people thinking they're town if they were scum? I don't think they'd draw attention to it so much as just accept the trs.

Can we

please

lynch in pisskop/nosferatu?
Not up for a Wisdom lynch D1. Definitely not up for Sondam or ironstove.
drealmerz is below average but I still don't have a good read on him and I'd much prefer to lynch actual scumreads. Like, why the fuck are people townreading pisskop when he's doing jack all? Why do so many people supposedly think Nosferatu is scummy

yet not vote him

?

~Ruko

[BATORU]

I almost don't believe you. Sorry Guess I underestimated you after seeing you in Tarot mafia. What was the team?

Still think Gerry would put in more effort as scum. Still don't see scum motivation in questioning Fire's townread either.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

maybe i'm wrong about everything but this game is really annoying me and i'm dreading rereading

the scum motivation in questioning townreads is to look towny like anything else

poor ruko has a horrible hydra partner here and we can't even seem to talk things out in hydra chat largely because i've been avoiding it. let that be known if it wasn't already lmao

-tama

[BATORU]

and i'm sorry for not keeping up

i already said this in hydra chat but i really am and i'm trying to fix it now

-tama

[BATORU]

I don't like sondams responses to pressure rn; not chara is extremely noncommittal in their iso; iron is objecting to sondam wagon for pretty shitty reasoning and just flip flops around.

Iron x Prism because their interactions look like scum distancing to me: opposition just for the sake of itself. His initial vote is after his pretty bullshit analysis of #359. His reasoning that he provides to dunn is literally the same reasoning that wisdom provides for sondam wagon, which is none at all. And yet he opposes sondam wagon. Not because of reasoning but because it was "easy to run up". I also interpreted #555 as sort of banking on sondam's townflip sorta prematurely, but it's pretty weak and is also the only reason I have to suspect prism, which is why I explicitly said I was leaning towards not prism.

Shit, this is actually a decent post.

UNVOTE:

I need to reread over the weekend.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

okay. I do think fires likely town.

Agreed

-tama

fuck
sorry

[BATORU]

I guess you can call my scumleans scum if that helps you but I don't have people I'd be that confident in voting if that makes sense.

Ewww. So that measn you have no scum reads but you have people, conversely, who are town enough to call deftown?

Can people stop shitting out meaningless and unbacked readslists? Im grateful there are no rainbow farts so far, but gdi

Outting reasons for reads lists only helps scum

backing up reads helps town, because it generates more reads, and it's often nearly impossible to determine someone's alignment if they don't explain themselves. What are you trying to say?

-tama

[BATORU]

@Mod

Ruko (JaeReed) head V/LA for a while - sorry.

[BATORU]

OK now THAT'S a scumslip
VOTE: Dunnstral

how is that a scumslip?

[BATORU]

Sorry I've been kind of ignoring this game and the more I do the more i want to because I swear I have like 40 pages to catch up with and have no idea where my partner's reads are at, or anyone's. I still think Dunnstral's town. Pisskop is probably town too. i might be wrong on ironstove being scum too... i might be townreading people too easily huh

-tama

[BATORU]

whyare you voting nobody botaru?

i don't know i've been procrastinating on this game

i don't know where my reads are at. JR and I were disagreeing a lot before but I don't know where their reads are at either

But I'm an indecisive player :c sorry

[BATORU]

I just feel really awkward settling on a scumread when i'm so clueless about this game, y'know? Everything changes a lot...

And GE said something was a scumslip from someone i've been pretty much townleaning for most of the game out of the blue and i wnat to know why he thinks that

i didn't see anywhere it said people couldn't have more than one spell at the beginning + even if dunnstral doesn't, he wouldn't know because I don't

Predit: Why those players? I don't know anything. Off tone I liked Sondam earlier, don't know what i think of them now. There's something they're not doing so far that I think they would as town. but I haven't isod them. Dunnstral's attitude has been really towny but if he scumslipped then we should be voting him. Either he did or he didn't, and if it's the latter i''m going to reexamine my read on GE instead

-tama

[BATORU]

I wouldn't lynch Sondam or Dunnstral today

maybe NC, they haven't stuck out to me at all and I think JR was feeling uneasy about them a while ago, but I don't have time to ISO right now

-tama

[BATORU]

Not townreading you but wouldn't vote you today

this post makes me feel uneasy for some reason

[BATORU]

Sondam has been all over the place in defense of themselves, flailing up a storm

OK. I wouldn't vote them over this alone because I've been scumread for overreacting to foses on me as town before, and being all-over-the-place doesn't seem indicative of either alignment. I probably just need to see it in context.

Dunns defense is 'not me, no you'

what's he supposed to be defending against? this isn't a scumtell if there's nothing of value for him to respond to. If it's what I'm thinking of, it's part of why I'm townleaning him right now.

Nc was abscent until she was called out. And still continues to only offer up prodges and enough minimalism to put buttless chaps to shame.

i was absent until just now too, so why not scumread me for that? Scum knows lurking is bad, so why would they do that just until they're called out for it?

[BATORU]

you don't think we have time to get a lynch outside the current top wagons with 2 days left? i'm still not used to forum mafia or what it takes

-tama (the other post was me too)

[BATORU]

i misread the post the first time, now it makes more sense

i was gonna say i don't really think the things you described are condemning scumtells

but i'm so out of the loop that i didn't realize you were just talking about the big wagons even tho u said it

-tama

[BATORU]

you don't think we have time to get a lynch outside the current top wagons with 2 days left? i'm still not used to forum mafia or what it takes

-tama (the other post was me too)

with this level of activity, it might not work out.
the thing is, those three 'top wagons', don't exactly have a lot of votes, and those that are there (like pisskop) seem to just be milling about.

what do you mean by "milling about"? he stated three potential lynches and did it in pretty definitive words. I don't see not voting immediately as counterintuitive, since he

is

here

[BATORU]

We

could

But its not really a safe thing. That kind of rapid shift and out-of-the-blue switching smells like the rankness of compromise lynching.


But, if you have a strong feel about another person, than by all means lay it on us. We didnt need to spend 12 days waffling, so I dont know why you would, but whats 2 more atp.

OK. I don't have a

strong

feeling yet so i'll keep that in mind, but again, idrk where my partner's reads are at right now and i have to catch up

[BATORU]

Gamma seems town enough. I dont particularly think his lynch would be the best lynch. y?

depends on that "slip" for me lol

if you're town though your reads are probably better than mine

[BATORU]

although i thought he was townier when he was being wagoned and i think ru thinks he's towny too so i doubt i'll end up voting him unless something major happens

predit: oh i see. what's your read on dunnstral overall?

[BATORU]

on second thought, i have time to iso now, so if you've already stated it i'll see it there

[BATORU]

Why not?

[BATORU]

Because the mechanics involved make me think everyone starts with one.

Can you be more specific?

[BATORU]

that doesn't mean you can't be forced to use multiple spells at once...... did the mod clarify this or something?

ugh
i'm sorry

[BATORU]

pisskop is town guys what r u doing

i swear i'm trying to stop slipping

i have different browsers up, the color is different

i'm just really, really bad at things like this. It's....one of my salient character traits

sorry.

-tama

[BATORU]

@gerry last I heard from Tama during my V/LA about pisskop when I asked her she said 1080 was something she found townie.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

Ok, so I'm back from V/LA. Sorry about that.

Who am I iso'ing? What events do people want me to focus on? I need direction to get back in this game. I'll reread fully overnight, since I don't think I have enough time to do that right now.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

I'm reading still. Then I'll get Tama in and try to hash things out with her.

So far by page 50:
I like pisskop more since he starting actually doing shit.
Nos' one decent post doesn't impress me enough to not want him lynched today given he went back to shitposting and fluffing up the thread.
Gamma's rolefishing and pushing on Dunn's refusal to full claim is sus as fuck. I also don't like thos who push on things as slips when they're not, but I'm not sure if he's inclined to do that anyway.
drealmerz vote on Dunn seems opportunistic, and his fluff posting is also bad at that stage in the game.
Fire had good points on iron and I was doubting my townread until he came through with 1188-1190 which is pretty much how I felt at that point.
Also I really feel weird about the fact that pretty much the majority of people seemed to have Nos as a "scummier than" read for all the leading wagons yet no one voted him even when we were pushing him. But too many people did it off memory to all be scum buddies so I'm not sure on whether that actually means anything.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

Wanted to wait to get Impo's input so we could bounce thoughts off each other but there's not enough time for that since I don't know what she's doing or if she's going to read it tonight or what.

VOTE: Gamma

I'd prefer this over the other options.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

I can compromise on drealmerz but would strongly prefer Gamma because I think he and drealmerz aren't scum together due to 1285. Won't do BTD. I don't know where Tama's at though.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

No. I'm not voting someone I am not sure is scum unless I absolutely have to in order to avoid a no lynch D1.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

Sondam has had both good and bad points but lack opportunism when presented with their own lynch (at least Maria head) by voting you instead of Gamma (the now competing wagon).

~Ruko

[BATORU]

Sondam (4): Nosferatu, pisskop, Not Chara, Dunnstral
Gamma Emerald (3): ironstove, drealmerz7, BATORU
pisskop (2): BTD6_Maker, Sondam
Not Chara (1): Gamma Emerald
Ironstove (1): Fire Assassin
Dunnstral (1): Prism
Prism (1): Sickofit1138

unofficial vc

[BATORU]

@Piss are you still townreading Gamma?

@Fire I feel like Gamma was trying to buddy up to both Sondam and drealmerz 1257 & 1285, you said in 1388 you didn't think he was trying to appease. Prior all that he was sheeping pisskop on Dunnstral. I'm pretty sure he's just scum. Also pushing something as a slip when it's clearly not is a tell I have a lot of success with in the past. Scum like to have solid foundation for their pushes so they don't get backlash when their target flips town.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

id much rather sond for many reasons

What reasons?

~Ruko

[BATORU]

tbh I'm not happy that I woke at 2am to Sondam over Gamma. I'll hammer if necessary but I don't think you're getting a claim from them just due to the fact that neither of them are online and it's like 40 mins to deadline. Maria showed complete lack of opportunism with the vote not on her competing wagon.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

RIGHT NOW is when you do VCA

You can't do VCA without knowing the alignment of the people being wagoned.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

It's absolutely useless without flips. You can make note of voting patterns but you can't draw any conclusions without knowing alignments. Even then, it's most useful with a scum flip.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

We're at 5 minutes. Not enough time to flip off regardless of claim, and BTD isn't around looking at online users. We're not no lynching on D1.

VOTE: Sondam

[BATORU]

gamma kill is obvs.

what?

I was going to go hard again on Gamma slot. Was that a replacement fear kill or a beeboy fear kill?

Tama head is V/LA until like tomorrow.

~Ruko

pedit: I really don't get why people seem to dislike beeboy :/ he's nice.

[BATORU]

anyways, that's my scry spell on gamma and I believe I've found mafia

Just to double check, there's nothing that lets you target without showing up in the spellbook besides a scum kill, correct?

Was there more than one person targeting beeboy? If not then you most likely have the killer.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

I got it <3

~Ruko

[BATORU]

I thought we were dead when I couldn't get Gamma lynched. I'm dreading rereading this tbh.

How likely is it that all 3 wagons were on town? I don't think it's likely.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

Guess I'm rereading later today. It's kinda dangerous to put a vote on piss when I'm not sure I think since he said dunn gave him the curse.

@Dunn why did you choose pisskop?

~Ruko

[BATORU]

Oh

[BATORU]

Like mechanically it should be obvious that I'm town and nos is scum.

Why mechanically?

~Ruko

[BATORU]

These ISOs are cancer to read.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

I targeted pisskop first but then I realized gamma was townier and probably a nightkill target, so I switched my vote to him.

How was Gamma townier?

I really don't see why you, pk, and Fire seem to think so.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

Both of your ISOs make me want to claw my eyes out and feed them to my future first-born.

I liked Dunn's push on Nos early because barring the meta part it was in line with what I disliked about Nos.
457 Would Nos be so unapologetic about having no reads at a time in the game where everyone else had something if he were scum? < Fire let me know please

@Mod if two people had hypothetically targeted beeboy with the same spell, would both show in his book upon flip or just one?

~Ruko

[BATORU]

Yo before we lynch can we direct me please

I targeted DS last night

I'm a vig

I just steal vote n1, then they die n2

HOLY FUCK NO YOU FAGGOT I KILLED HIM
VOTE: BBmolla

probably fucking scum votestealer who wants to get some town points by stealing credit FOR MY FUCKING VIG.

NOT TODAY BITCH

I don't tend to let time pass before cc'ing.

This is a pretty stark emotional difference to here.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

I also don't see a reason for Nosferatu to come out of the gate to CC.
Lets say Dunn you are town.
Nos only knows that you saw someone visiting gamma.
That means he is dead or there is someone else also visiting that could mean he is fucked.
Nos immediately says that you are the one who visited.

ScumNos I am almost confident would wait it out and see what happens.
Not jump out of the gate to cc your claim.

No, in this scenario scumNos would have to counterclaim I think. He saw the one spell in beeboy's book, which implies only one person visited. He'd only need to wait to see who claimed it to counterclaim them.

Same with scumDunn.

[BATORU]

@Mod if two people had hypothetically targeted beeboy with the same spell, would both show in his book upon flip or just one?

Should you have multiple instances of a single spell, it will appear multiple times in your spellbook.

This confirms there's scum in the claims, I think. Only other thing I can think of is a spell steal but that's too unlikely.

[BATORU]

Why not join me on BTD, didn't you have him in your list?

absolutely
sure, I'll let you do more on pissk with your experience and join you on BTD

UNVOTE: pisskop

VOTE: BTD6_Maker

What the absolute fuck are you doing?

[BATORU]

Yo before we lynch can we direct me please

I targeted DS last night

I'm a vig

I just steal vote n1, then they die n2

HOLY FUCK NO YOU FAGGOT I KILLED HIM
VOTE: BBmolla

probably fucking scum votestealer who wants to get some town points by stealing credit FOR MY FUCKING VIG.

NOT TODAY BITCH

I don't tend to let time pass before cc'ing.

This is a pretty stark emotional difference to here.

~Ruko

I was 14 when I made that post. Prone to frequent emotional outburts from hormones.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p8145938

I was 22 there. I don't think age matters? Like I always get pretty pissed off when someone claims my role regardless. Dunn isn't being overly emotional either though so... :/

Did you soft at all?

[BATORU]

I've read both ISO's.

I lean more towards Nos. Dunn's soft is pretty good.

VOTE: Nos

~Ruko

[BATORU]

Not loving drealmerz but I can't really articulate why right now. It just feels like he's posturing?

~Ruko

[BATORU]

In either of their cases they'd know they're caught and have to cc.

beeboy died. beeboy flipped with the watcher ability in his spellbook. Which means someone watched beeboy get killed. It's pretty obvious from the flip.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

or toy with the idea that both of them had been town and used scry? which nos did, when he brought up that game where he cced a town vig as a town vig. if a watcher sees someone target someone else who died, you don't think 'oh, i wonder if i didn't detect the kill'.

If you've seen it happen before you're more likely to believe it could happen again. And the last part...isn't that also what Dunn did?

You're levelling points against only Nos that BOTH of them did.

UNVOTE:

~Ruko

[BATORU]

anyways, that's my scry spell on gamma and I believe I've found mafia

Just to double check, there's nothing that lets you target without showing up in the spellbook besides a scum kill, correct?

if a watcher sees someone target someone else who died, you don't think 'oh, i wonder if i didn't detect the kill'.

To elaborate, this reads exactly as what you're saying.

[BATORU]

when did Dunn think that he could be town with Nos? i just checked Dunn's ISO, he's been calling Nos scum all day.

and i thought you voted Nos because of Dunn's ISO... why did a conversation with me change your mind? it's mod-confirmed that there's scum between them, otherwise there would be two scry spells.

No, he seemed uncertain at the start.

I voted Nos because of Dunn and Nos's ISO's. I unvoted because you and drealmerz are creeping me the fuck out.

[BATORU]

And that looks like a scum claim.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

I cannot describe how frustratingly stupid this town will be for

lynching dunn over me

if it does indeed happen.

slip.

not seeing it

-tama

[BATORU]

VOTE: Fire Assassin

what has FA done to be obvscum?? At worst he was like, too pleasantly towny last i checked. And aren't nos and dunnstral CCs? Why would we lynch outside of them in this setup?

[BATORU]

actually I'm pretty sure I agree with my partner on this one. I've come to think in forum mafia, facts >>> ate, and that is one thing that worries me about FA

i need to do so many isos and i hate catching up but @FA why do you think nos is town?

Predit: i am a second pair but i think usually wordings like that aren't slips. Like I do SEE the logic? I just disagree with it. Kinda. Even if nosferatu's scum, that's a little too... uh... obtuse? maybe it wasn't worth commenting on though

[BATORU]

actually maybe we should just lynch dunn because there are two scum confirmed. That's worth it, right?

[BATORU]

Nos (4) - Dunnstral, NC, drealmerz, BTD
Dunn (3) - Nos, Fire

My count, think that's right. 6 to lynch.

Also beeboy replaced Gamma. Gamma/beeboy is dead, and beeboy would have either chosen where the spell went or had it randomized by Nahdia if he didn't.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

actually I'm pretty sure I agree with my partner on this one. I've come to think in forum mafia, facts >>> ate, and that is one thing that worries me about FA

i need to do so many isos and i hate catching up but @FA why do you think nos is town?

Predit: i am a second pair but i think usually wordings like that aren't slips. Like I do SEE the logic? I just disagree with it. Kinda. Even if nosferatu's scum, that's a little too... uh... obtuse? maybe it wasn't worth commenting on though

what? FA is fine. I'm honestly tempted to just sheep him on this one. Nos wagon has 2 ppl pinging me for opportunism...but Nos is also scum by play and Dunn softed so...idunno. Come to hydra pt so you stop making dumb posts.

also it's scummy to push on a slip when it's not one.

Spoiler:

unless your name is Gamma Emerald

~Ruko

[BATORU]

ughhhh

[BATORU]

This really feels like nosferatu is going to be flipping town.
I really starting to think Dunnstral was making an example of a role and used watcher and got lucky, as in it just so happened he claimed watcher later.
Is that insane? Maybe, but it feels more likely than Nos being scum at the moment.

VOTE: Dunnstral

Yeah I "got lucky"

Fire is scum.

No he's not. Not by play nor by mechanics. Stop with the omgus. It's not helping.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

Ohhh so that's what that alert stuff was. Why did you send it to Fire? What does it do?

~Ruko

[BATORU]

What'd my prior say? Noncompulsive?

He said the first spell used on him would get reflected back. Didn't elaborate beyond that.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

@Batoru I read Nosferatu as town due to this latest batch of posts, I don't think Nosferatu is good at doing the whole AtE as scum, and I don't think I have seen him do it quite frankly. The only thing that kind of makes me think its fake was you pointing out to him the reaction to a cc in a different game was much different, so he may be just trying to up the emotion for it to seem more "real" but again, I don't think thats likely.

I read Nos as town day 1 by how he played, activity and presence and thoughts.
I compared this game to a game where I had him as a scummate and it didn't match up.

So your D1 read on Nos is partly meta as well? I didn't like most of his D1 play. Felt like a lot of coasting, and I hated how he talked Tama around in a circle to keep her from her original points. That might not be so hard to do as town on accident though, idunno... It just felt like he was very eager to lead her in a way that she talked about the addition to her read rather than the meat of it, and I hated it.

What game was it?

~Ruko

[BATORU]

First post from that slot was a sheep vote, something that felt like feigned surprise and an incredible amount of tentativeness.

I was gonna let Tama respond but I can't actually let that go.

First post was RVS. In RVS you generally try to get a wagon going to start the game. I don't see an issue with voting where someone has already done so there. Not a fan that you bring up participating in RVS as an issue. Tentativeness is kinda how Tama is, you'll probably pick that up as you read though if you're actually trying to read tone.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

I think I've been along long enough to know what RVS is.

Her participation in RVS isn't the issue, the tentativeness is. And this is regardless of tone a person usually has. I don't know either player in this hydra (at least I don't recognize either signature) so my first thought was "tama must really not have much experience to not know an ability like hated exists". However the second line, where she follows Wisdom's vote, is what really bothers me. Tentativeness would dictate to NOT start a wagon. Experienced townies WOULD start it, but with confidence. Certainly no talk about worrying for accidental hammers then. All in all, the post's actions and words contradict itself.

I don't actually know when RVS started being the norm, and a lot of older players are coming out of the woodwork lately to play. Anyway... You're arguing the 2nd vote in RVS is a start to a wagon when there's 7 to lynch. I disagree. It takes more than 2 votes to make a wagon, let alone you're saying she should worry about accidental hammers at L-5.

Anyway, Tama does have some experience with forum mafia, but not a lot. Off the top of my head, two newbies, a mini normal, and a mini theme. I don't really know what you expect from inexperience, but I stopped worrying about lolhammers after my first newbie, and even then I think I was only anxious about it when people actually reached a danger zone. L-5 is nowhere near it.

She's always had a lack of confidence which is partly why we're in a hydra in the first place, to learn from each other, because she also generally has pretty decent reads before she talks herself out of them. You're dictating that something that's a personality trait for her should have kept her from placing the 2nd vote on someone in RVS. Also stating that you don't care about her general tone is saying you don't care if it's NAI for her, no? Which means you're confbiasing if you're town. Especially considering you don't seem interested in sorting the CC's individually, and only off associates with our slot.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

Anyway, Tama does have some experience with forum mafia, but not a lot. Off the top of my head, two newbies, a mini normal, and a mini theme. I don't really know what you expect from inexperience, but I stopped worrying about lolhammers after my first newbie, and even then I think I was only anxious about it when people actually reached a danger zone. L-5 is nowhere near it.

That's my point, she DID worry about it.

Don't know what NAI is. I was more concerned about the associates of your slot because the order of business today isn't you but two people in a situation where at least one is lying about a night action. That's a scenario where you don't worry about lynching anyone else specifically because you know you have a minimum 50% chance to lynch scum.

Also remember that on my read-through, I DO get bonus information. I know two flipped townies and can use that. Not using that information for how others associate with the slot is a bad idea. Yes I'm going to use associative tells. This game is about interacting and naturally not doing so is just inefficient.

P-edit: Yeah there's really no need for a hidden intention here. I'm not interested in dying before a situation where a scum is guaranteed to be in 1 of 2 slots.

What? She worried about it in context of Dunnstral claiming a curse that made him hated, not about the actual hop on the wagon. She was saying whoever had the curse should claim so we don't think we're putting someone at L-1 when we're actually hammering. That had nothing to do with the Sondam wagon.

The problem isn't you using associate tells with the other flipped slots. It's you using associate tells with slots that

haven't flipped

because apparently you think we're scum because Tama lacks confidence? What you're positing is absolutely ridiculous and it feels like you're just trying to swing things so that you don't have to lynch your buddy today because "well this person looked worse with BATORU who I scumread off that one RVS post". Then when they flip town, because we're town, you don't even need to re-evaluate on us because that was the "original" scumread. Like, atm to me it looks like you're trying to push back the lynch of a buddy by a day to secure a ML on town by drawing associates with us that you can keep your hands clean from later. Am I going crazy here?

~Ruko

[BATORU]

I'd prefer you get rid of the double watcher scenario first.

ooof

if you're scum, nice casual response, but still scummy response!

also finding your angling of batoru into the nos/dunn situation rather scummy

Also, didn't you think we were scum? Why do you find him using a scumread on us to read the cc's scummy in that case?

~Ruko

[BATORU]

@Fire what game is the scum game with Nos you were talking about?

~Ruko

[BATORU]

"Lynch my buddy today". Alright. First issue, I've not read the thread. Unless you assume daytalk and us having discussed SPECIFICALLY that one person has kissed up to you more than the other, you're really grasping at straws. Secondly, I've given no push either way on it. In that case, you'd expect SOME action, regardless of WIFOM or not. Bus the buddy, give a read of town on them? Inaction normally doesn't befit scum bussing scum. There's always something to be done. Instead I'm just reading, and haven't given anything towards it.

Your entire basis holds no water unless there's some major amounts of communication happening really early on to my posting. And notice, neither one in question for the lynch would be on to fill me in?

Uh, what? You can draw associates from literally anything if you're trying. That's my issue with how you're trying to read this. You should be reading off the people who have already flipped, and even then it's harder without a scum flip to work off. What you

can

do is read from if either of the two are scum who would their buddies be. But you're not doing that. You're starting by looking at us, an uncertain from your pov, and trying to figure out which of the two is our buddy.

Also no, I wouldn't expect much while you're reading up and trying to get your pre-flip case together to defend your buddy if you're scum? You'd need to read the thread regardless of alignment anyway (or at least feign it) and you've already proven you weren't really reading the context of posts. If you're town I'd expect you to try to sort which is the scum of the two cc's in your reread using the actual fucking flipped information and

then

try to tie us to them if you think we're scum. Not the other way around. Starting with a read and then working backwards from that is scummy af.

And if one person HAS kissed up to us more than another, and you think we're scum, then chances are the person kissing up is town, not a buddy. Like your logic just feels flawed and I'm having trouble deciphering if I was wrong on my ironstove read and FA was right in that he was wifoming earlier or not.

It's hardly grasping at straws when you've taken a personality indicative thing and decided we're so obvscum that you'll lynch in the cc's based off associates with us. Instead of y'know, looking at the fact that ONE OF THE CC'S IS ACTUALLY FUCKING SCUM and working backwards from there.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

I am so deeply confirmation biasing myself that I honestly wish I had a hydra partner to tell me to shut the fuck up and take a break from game so i can regain perspective later.

Shut the fuck up and take a break from the game to regain perspective later <3

~Ruko

[BATORU]

yeah, FA, it's BTD6

What's your read on NC?

~Ruko

[BATORU]

VOTE: Dunnstral

~Ruko

[BATORU]

just for the record this is ruko not me

-tama

[BATORU]

That was unfair of me to say since i'd already given ruko the go-ahead, i just feel bad about having this slot's vote moved entirely due to ate. I'm really sorry if you're town, dunn. I think on my own i'd probably be really indecisive over certain things here, so it wouldn't be much better, but it's still wrong of me to leave this all up to my hydra partner.

[BATORU]

I'm sorry Dunn if you're town but I really can't see that post coming from scum. The emotion there feels too raw and genuine, and it doesn't feel like something he made just to get townread rather than genuine reflection and regret.

I don't know if you got lucky or you were planning some kind of gambit by softing it or what but I really don't think Nos is flipping scum here anymore.

Also we weren't voting Nos, we'd unvoted earlier... Moving our vote onto him now would hammer...

~Ruko

[BATORU]

I don't even scumread you but there's just no way that post comes from scum.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

You're not even in danger of a lynch why are you so concerned about my vote?

Why haven't you called us scum like you did Fire?

~Ruko

[BATORU]

Yes, they do. It is absolutely a thing for town to judge people for scumreading them, and i stand by that even if nosferatu flips scum.

-tama

[BATORU]

The last line obviously could be typed out of emotion. Denying that possibility is scummy.

-tama

[BATORU]

VOTE: dunnstral

@piss why didn't you give Fire a chance to come back to the thread and reconsider?

~Ruko

[BATORU]

ewww.

what gave you the idea fire was waffling?

The fact that he was waffling and explicitly stated that Nos doesn't tend to AtE as scum? Then when a post came about that I could actually feel emotion coming at me through the fucking screen you hammered while stating that you were trusting in Fire, without having given him a chance to unvote if he read that post the same way I did.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

reading emotion is a strongpoint of mine, but it becomes stronger and more accurate (most often, I can be very good with ppl I've never played with before too, it just depends on their behavior) the more I develop a meta on someone as well - I am very curious to see how all of this goes, that is for sure

Do you have any examples of you correctly reading emotion as town I can read?

~Ruko

[BATORU]

I didnt see any waffle. perhaps we let fire check in before we write a smooth narration out

There was waffle in his actual vote, and prior to that he was clearly choosing Dunnstral over Nos.

But yeah, ok. I'm pretty confident Fire isn't fucking blind and would have switched votes there, too. So we'll see.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

when the rest of us have no clear direction, this one beacon/paragon of towniness has just the right words for you?

bullshit. If dunn wasnt caught redhanded youd be trying to string me up instead of listening to my reads

I have no idea what you're saying here. Rephrase?

~Ruko

[BATORU]

We talked last ngiht and I decided that the wifom of handing the curse wasnt worth it.

I don't follow here either.

Who did you talk with? What wifom?

~Ruko

[BATORU]

Spell or ability?

~Ruko

[BATORU]

Except I'm not. I'm questioning your intentions with the hammer when you were hiding behind two other people to do it, one of which hadn't weighed in after Nosferatu's AtE post that I'm pretty sure would have read it the same as I did. I'm questioning drealmerz on whether he was just using his "good at reading emotion" thing as an excuse to stay on the Nos wagon.

And it does matter. Because if someone is going to cc then we need that information first, not after. As the situation with Nos ended up showing. He's already claimed the use of the ability, I'm asking for specifics.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

Also, Sick, I hope you're town <3

~Ruko

[BATORU]

okay.

Im going to trust fire and my neighbor SOI on this nos

Please be scum

The next post from you was the vote on Nos.

And yes, you can weave a story, and that's all it'd be. Anyone can weave a story, but that doesn't make every story true. Why are you trying to force a narrative instead of helping me sort you?

~Ruko

[BATORU]

bullshit. If dunn wasnt caught redhanded youd be trying to string me up instead of listening to my reads

What kind of line is this? This is such an elaborate way to word "I think you're scum." Saying "you'd be pushing for my lynch instead of listening to my reads" can't possibly be a

reason

to suspect us because you can't possibly know that without thinking we're scum

first.

And what's to say that would be true? Even if we were scum, wouldn't we be focusing on looking like town? Being hyperdefensive and omgusing at the slightest of proddings doesn't make me want to listen to your reads.

What's wrong with coming out of the gates with a vote? If people want to claim they can claim. Are you saying we're trying to eliminate content by voting confirmed scum when there's almost no claim that could influence today's lynch?

The nosferatu thing -- the post was towny in a way that Ru thought would be highly unlikely to be forced and i didn't disagree (the thing that gave me hesitation was the nature of dunn's claim). It's not like we had never fluctuated before. Reads are different.

-tama

[BATORU]

someone asks you a question and suddenly you're singling them out for completely different reasons and you talk like you're

convinced

we're scum. I don't mean to be harsh but if you're town this is legit infuriating and making it really hard to read you as such.

predit: you keep talking like we're the confscum, yet I don't see how your reasons are substantial enough to cause that kind of conviction.

predit: It wasn't my read. It was Ru's. And Ru was right. It was

how

it was towny that made it different. I had my doubts. I don't see how that's an answer to my post. Yeah, maybe I should stop cluttering the thread. Yeah, our slot's probably pretty waffly. Because, unlike what you seem so certain of, we don't know scum, and i'm learning from this game i'm a terrible hydra partner on top of being a waffly player.

-tama

[BATORU]

I suspect we'd find an ISO of vague waffly feels if we isoed bat.

Again, you just suddenly started pushing the narrative that we're definitely scum when ruko

asked you a question

for the sake of

sorting

you and voted confirmed scum.

Voting the person we know we're lynching today shouldn't be AI. If anything

waiting

to vote would be scummy to me had you not explained reasons for it just now.

WTF kinda push is this? If you're town, legit, what the fuck are you thinking? You haven't isoed us. You "suspect" you'd find indecision and "vagueness" which, hey, maybe, since most of the specific stuff has been said in our hydra chat. I do not recall you pushing anything like this before.

Predit: the problem is THERE IS NO EVIDENCE. You're just pushing utter confidence on nothing and I don't understand you. I don't even remember you scumreading us before now.

[BATORU]

-tama.

[BATORU]

"too towny to be scum" is a shit reason to claim to scumread a now-caught scum, and you have the audacity to claim that the hammerer is scummy after your AtE copout read?

What? We never said that. Not once.

In fact, I explicitly

wasn't

scumreading Dunnstral. The thing is that I could not under any circumstances see Nos making that post as scum. It was too real. It was too raw. That was genuine self reflection and I've felt that before. He didn't have anything to self reflect

on

if he were scum, because he would have done his best and gotten fucked over by a good night action choice from town!Dunn and good crumbs. He was reflecting because he was town.

The action of hammering a townread while giving "credit" to Sick and Fire without Fire having weighed in after that post is scummy. I was waiting for him to come back and give his judgement of it and you took that away.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

i mean honestly I'm waiting for you to out it as a reaction test but in the meantime i'm treating it as genuine.

predit: I word things how i feel. maybe it's a negative; that's what i'm trying to determine now.

-tama

[BATORU]

You did.

You said "sorry bro, but NOSs ate was super-fucking town and I am now more inclined to vote you"

You didnt have to claim to scumread dunn. you said it all buy avoiding that statement.

Why would we avoid that statement as scum? Wouldn't we want to be

more

vocal about it, since it would be our partner? Just because something irritates you doesn't make it scum.

neither of us scumread dunn specifically. It was a matter of who we were townreading less. At least for me.

-tama

[BATORU]

Aye what Ive got from our talk is that your being slippery and unconfrontational. I guess being scum will do that hunh

I don't think i was being non-confrontational. Both of us were responding to everything you said and not avoiding the issue. I don't feel like you're doing that, but whatever. I also actively went back to take out a couple words in one post just because i don't

want

to be unnecessarily rude. It's not because of my alignment.

If you think we were buddying you're crazy.

....it was bad AtE... There was nothing real nor raw about it.

well he flipped town.

[BATORU]

-tama

[BATORU]

You did.

You said "sorry bro, but NOSs ate was super-fucking town and I am now more inclined to vote you"

You didnt have to claim to scumread dunn. you said it all buy avoiding that statement.

I think you're confbiasing. I can see why you could read it that way if you are, but wouldn't I just apologize to him in the scum thread if that were the case? Why do it in thread?

Aye what Ive got from our talk is that your being slippery and unconfrontational. I guess being scum will do that hunh

Unconfrontational would be asking Fire what he thought instead of butting heads with you :/ I don't know. Fire thought you were town, and I was honestly just waiting for him to come back to help me make the case for that post from Nos being genuine as I thought he would also see it, so I might be having a kneejerk reaction, sorry. I know a hammer on its own isn't scum indicative, I just wish I'd had the chance to talk over the AtE post with the person I trusted most before the hammer dropped.

I'll wait for someone who knows you better to weigh in on whether that's even AI for you. At this stage I have so few people I actually trust right now.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

Like, we're reacting to everything you say, while you're giving aloof one-liners and ignoring largely what has been posted to address things. Your points have seemed highly insubstantial to me.

I find that pretty frustrating. Hence I said it was a reaction test. If it is please say so because it influences my read on you.

predit: So you're saying that, as town, Nosferatu forced everything there the same way as if he were scum? You think that's more likely than just

you misreading it

?

-tama

[BATORU]

it doesn't change that the AtE was forced.

Not from how I read it. I'd just come off reading Nosferatu's ISO in the game that Fire linked where they were scum together. I didn't see anything like that there, which lent credence to Fire's initial read of Nos here.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

UNVOTE:

[BATORU]

Spoiler: D1

Dunnstral

(3):

Nosferatu

, pisskop,

Sondam

Sondam

(2):

Wisdom, Fire Assassin

Wisdom (2):

Prism,

Dunnstral

Not Chara (1):

BTD6_Maker

Nosferatu

(1):

ironstove

ironstove (1):

Mega Frozen

Not Voting (3):

drealmerz7, Not Chara,

BATORU

Sondam

(3):

Wisdom, Fire Assassin, Not Chara

Dunnstral

(2):

Nosferatu

,

Sondam

Mega Frozen

(2):

BATORU

, Prism

Not Chara (1):

BTD6_Maker

Nosferatu

(1):

ironstove

ironstove (1):

Mega Frozen

BTD6_Maker (1):

drealmerz7

drealmerz7 (1):

Dunnstral

Fire Assassin (1):

pisskop

Not Voting (0):

ironstove (4):

Mega Frozen

, pisskop, Fire Assassin,

Dunnstral

Mega Frozen

(3):

Prism, BTD6_Maker, ironstove

Sondam

(2):

Wisdom, Not Chara

Dunnstral

(1):

Sondam

BTD6_Maker (1):

drealmerz7

drealmerz7 (1):

Nosferatu

Not Voting (1):

BATORU

ironstove (3):

pisskop, Fire Assassin,

Dunnstral

Gamma Emerald

(3):

Prism, BTD6_Maker, ironstove

Sondam

(2):

Wisdom, Not Chara

BTD6_Maker (1):

drealmerz7

drealmerz7 (1):

Nosferatu

Nosferatu

(1):

BATORU

pisskop (1):

Sondam

Not Voting (1):

Gamma Emerald

ironstove (3):

pisskop, Fire Assassin,

Dunnstral

Sondam

(2):

Wisdom, Not Chara

BTD6_Maker (2):

drealmerz7,

Sondam

Gamma Emerald

(1):

BTD6_Maker

drealmerz7 (1):

Nosferatu

Nosferatu

(1):

BATORU

Prism (1):

ironstove

Dunnstral

(1):

Prism

Not Voting (1):

Gamma Emerald

Sondam

(5):

Wisdom, Not Chara,

Dunnstral

,

Nosferatu

, BTD6_Maker

ironstove (2):

pisskop, Fire Assassin

BTD6_Maker (2):

drealmerz7,

Sondam

Wisdom (1):

Gamma Emerald

Nosferatu

(1):

BATORU

Prism (1):

ironstove

Dunnstral

(1):

Prism

Not Voting (0):

Sondam

(5):

Wisdom, Not Chara,

Dunnstral

,

Nosferatu

, BTD6_Maker

ironstove (2):

pisskop, Fire Assassin

BTD6_Maker (1):

drealmerz7

Wisdom (1):

Gamma Emerald

Nosferatu

(1):

BATORU

Gamma Emerald

(1):

ironstove

Dunnstral

(1):

Prism

Not Voting (1):

Sondam

Sondam

(5):

Not Chara,

Dunnstral

,

Nosferatu

, BTD6_Maker, pisskop

Wisdom (2):

Gamma Emerald

,

Sondam

ironstove (1):

Fire Assassin

BTD6_Maker (1):

drealmerz7

Nosferatu

(1):

BATORU

Gamma Emerald

(1):

ironstove

Dunnstral

(1):

Prism

drealmerz (1):

Wisdom

Not Voting (0):

Sondam

(4):

Dunnstral

, BTD6_Maker, pisskop,

Nosferatu

Wisdom (2):

Gamma Emerald

,

Sondam

Nosferatu

(2):

BATORU

, Prism

ironstove (1):

Fire Assassin

Gamma Emerald

(1):

ironstove

drealmerz (1):

Wisdom

Dunnstral

(1):

Not Chara

Not Voting (1):

drealmerz7

Sondam

(3):

Dunnstral

, BTD6_Maker, pisskop

Not Chara (3):

Fire Assassin,

Gamma Emerald

,

Nosferatu

Wisdom (2):

Sondam

, drealmerz7

Nosferatu

(1):

Prism

Gamma Emerald

(1):

ironstove

drealmerz (1):

Wisdom

Dunnstral

(1):

Not Chara

Not Voting (1):

BATORU

Dunnstral

(3):

Not Chara, pisskop,

Gamma Emerald

Not Chara (2):

Fire Assassin,

Nosferatu

Sondam

(2):

Dunnstral

, BTD6_Maker

pisskop (1):

Sondam

Nosferatu

(1):

Prism

Gamma Emerald

(1):

ironstove

drealmerz (1):

Wisdom

BTD6_Maker (1):

drealmerz7

Not Voting (1):

BATORU

Dunnstral

(3):

pisskop,

Gamma Emerald

, drealmerz7

Sondam

(3):

Dunnstral

, BTD6_Maker, ironstove

Not Chara (2):

Fire Assassin,

Nosferatu

pisskop (1):

Sondam

Nosferatu

(1):

Prism

drealmerz (1):

Sickofit1138

Gamma Emerald

(1):

Not Chara

Not Voting (1):

BATORU

Sondam

(4):

Dunnstral

, BTD6_Maker,

Nosferatu

, pisskop

pisskop (4):

Sondam

,

Gamma Emerald

, drealmerz7, ironstove

Not Chara (1):

Fire Assassin

Nosferatu

(1):

Prism

drealmerz (1):

Sickofit1138

Gamma Emerald

(1):

Not Chara

Not Voting (1):

BATORU

Sondam

(3):

Nosferatu

, pisskop, Not Chara

pisskop (2):

drealmerz7, BTD6_Maker

ironstove (2):

Gamma Emerald

, Fire Assassin

Not Chara (2):

Dunnstral

,

Sondam

Gamma Emerald

(1):

ironstove

Dunnstral

(1):

Prism

drealmerz (1):

Sickofit1138

Not Voting (1):

BATORU

Sondam

(5):

Nosferatu

, pisskop,

Dunnstral

,

Gamma Emerald

, Prism

Gamma Emerald

(4):

ironstove, drealmerz7,

BATORU

, Not Chara

pisskop (2):

BTD6_Maker,

Sondam

ironstove (1):

Fire Assassin

Prism (1):

Sickofit1138

Not Voting (0):

Sondam

(7):

pisskop,

Dunnstral

,

Gamma Emerald

, Prism,

Nosferatu

, Not Chara,

BATORU

pisskop (3):

BTD6_Maker,

Sondam

, Sickofit1138

Gamma Emerald

(2):

ironstove, drealmerz7

ironstove (1):

Fire Assassin

Not Voting (0):

Spoiler: D2

Nosferatu

(3):

Dunnstral

, drealmerz7,

BATORU

Dunnstral

(2):

Nosferatu

, pisskop

Not Voting (6):

Sickofit1138, Not Chara, Prism, ironstove, BTD6_Maker, Fire Assassin

Nosferatu

(4):

Dunnstral

, drealmerz7, Not Chara, BTD6_Maker

Dunnstral

(2):

Nosferatu

, Fire Assassin

Aj The Epic (1):

pisskop

Fire Assassin(1):

Aj The Epic

Not Voting (3):

Sickofit1138, Prism,

BATORU

Nosferatu

(5):

Dunnstral

, drealmerz7, Not Chara, BTD6_Maker, Fire Assassin

Dunnstral

(2):

Nosferatu

,

BATORU

Aj The Epic (1):

pisskop

Fire Assassin(1):

Aj The Epic

Not Voting (2):

Sickofit1138, Prism

Nosferatu

(6):

Dunnstral

, drealmerz7, Not Chara, BTD6_Maker, Fire Assassin, pisskop

Dunnstral

(2):

Nosferatu

,

BATORU

Fire Assassin(1):

Aj The Epic

Not Voting (2):

Sickofit1138, Prism

Need to post before looking it over from my main. Hydra is on a light theme, colors are hurting my eyes.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

Dunno yet, light background on hydra made it hard to figure anything out while previewing here so I'm looking it over on my main, which uses the default ms background. So far I've seen you and NC were on Dunn for a fairly long time D1. The early Mega Frozen wagon is interesting because as soon as it started to gain traction a wagon on the ironstove slot shot into play. Mega Frozen was already voting ironstove, so that was pisskop, fire, and dunnstral.

I mentioned D1 to Tama that if Mega Frozen was town then the counterwagon that shot up was more likely to be from town. It wasn't anything solid without flips though, and then I forgot about it. I think Dunn might have seen a good opportunity to push through a lynch there, which makes ironstove slot town? But I feel like that's kinda useless as far as what we can draw from that since that's AJ slot and he claimed to have roleblocked Dunn last night. The only other thing is whether more than one scum hopped on there, which I don't see as likely, because if I remember that was 3 votes in quick succession, and scum don't like to bunch up I think?

So far I'm seeing piss, NC, Fire more likely town, with the least confident being NC, as it hopped off when the Dunn wagon started to gain traction. Prism also was a lone vote on Dunn for a long time, and I'm not sure if that could have been a possible distancing move while letting town implode? drealmerz hopped on briefly before the Dunn wagon collapsed and seemed to move on to pisskop, and I'm not sure about that move either.

I need to double check back after the Dunnstral push on D1, because you went from voting him to voting next to him on the Sondam wagon, and I can't remember how that happened.

I'm not sure if 2 scum on, 1 off for the final would be accurate or not. We know the counterwagon was on town so I'd imagine scum would be spread out? If so, my main fos there would actually be Prism based off the VCs alone.

I don't really know if I'm doing it right, though. I wasn't actually taught VCA, it's just more what I've picked up by watching some games mhsmith was in so far.

~Ruko