Mini Normal 1909: Girls ♥ Girls 1 ~ Endgame

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 5:41 am

Spoiler:

In post 1949, Titus wrote:
In post 1946, Tammy wrote:You know what maybe the problem is me. I feel like I start off being patient, I feel like I've tried working with you, tried explaining where I thought your perceptions were wrong, been open to hearing other reasons. Yes, I've gotten increasingly aggravated as the game has gone on, and that is due to you obviously not reading my posts and saying I'm doing stuff I'm not doing. I think what you actually want is for me to just agree with you on everything. That's not going to happen, so I'm just going to stop trying to work with you, it causes me too much frustration.
This is how I have felt with you since you've told me meta this meta that, your reads suck, repeat them.

Are you seriously TRing everyone I'd vote?

I am sure there's a game out there where I felt this apathetic. I don't really do meta or remember those.

I never said your reads suck. I never said repeat them. I disagreed with your reasoning and I said why.

I gave you an iso of the last game implosion and I played together where we were town to show you that his interaction with me in this game was the same as that game. I told you that if Implosion were scum he was trying to mimic that game. I asked why you weren't prodding him beyond that initial thing and why you didn't react to his vote. (this is a person I am null on and have problems with, so I'm open to hearing suspicions.)

I gave you my read on Nacho and how it was based on interaction and his early game solving. I pointed you to Gay Mafia, a game you were in, to show you how our interaction this game was very similar to there. You have played enough games with the both of us that you should be able to prod at things. (This is a person I am hard town reading; I will disagree with suspicions on this slot but I am open to hearing your problems.)

I pointed out that hiraki just replied to your statement that you were sorting, which was in no way a perspective slip. I asked for other reasons for this read. (This is a player I'm null on and am paranoid about, so I'm open to hearing suspicions.)

On Aristophanes I thought he was making a joke, you know how people often say that crazy titus is town titus, but if titus makes sense she's scum. considering he was saying he was going to sheep you, it didn't look like shade. (This is a person I'm slightly better than null on, I'm open to hearing suspicions.

I never asked you to repeat them. I said I was concerned that you weren't prodding at them and trying to sort them. That doesn't show me you're trying to solve the game.

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 5:45 am

I am not town reading the rb/prism slot, in fact I've addressed my issues with rb and in particular the weird treatment of nacho. I do know that Prism prefers scum, so the interpretation that he's just putting it off because he's scum isn't very strong. I haven't read the over night posts yet beyond a skim, so I can't address the content they might have in them.

Frogger I go back and forth on. When he's here, I like him but then when he's gone I get worried about him.

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 5:51 am

You are an arrogant player, you know that. Lots of people are; it's not a discredit, it's not an insult. It was me talking about my issue with rb's treatment of you versus nacho, whom he was trying to discredit to holy hell.

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 5:52 am

In post 1961, Titus wrote:
In post 1959, Tammy wrote:I am not town reading the rb/prism slot, in fact I've addressed my issues with rb and in particular the weird treatment of nacho. I do know that Prism prefers scum, so the interpretation that he's just putting it off because he's scum isn't very strong. I haven't read the over night posts yet beyond a skim, so I can't address the content they might have in them.

Frogger I go back and forth on. When he's here, I like him but then when he's gone I get worried about him.
Have you even considered your boyfiend could be scum and that's why the interactions look wierd?

Seems pretty clear rb got fed up with the no shitpost rule and left rather than justify his posts to the mod.

The interaction wasn't weird on Nacho's end, it was weird on rb's end. Nacho gave some reads and rb went on a rant about how arrogant nacho was, how he didn't want to listen to him, and just in general tried to make him feel like shit.

RB was my issue, not nacho.

And nacho's not scum. Sorry.

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 6:14 am

In post 1965, Fro99er wrote:
In post 1959, Tammy wrote:Frogger I go back and forth on. When he's here, I like him but then when he's gone I get worried about him.
How about analyze me for my play, not my activity.

Why aren't you voting Keyser or Titus?

It's not by activity. When you're here I like what you're saying and I feel all cozy, but the feeling doesn't linger as much as I'd like it to.

Not sure where I want my vote.

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 6:18 am

In post 1967, Titus wrote:
In post 1962, Tammy wrote:You are an arrogant player, you know that. Lots of people are; it's not a discredit, it's not an insult. It was me talking about my issue with rb's treatment of you versus nacho, whom he was trying to discredit to holy hell.
Really? By painting me as arrogant if I push something, it gets dismissed as Titus being overconfident and wrong. If I give you space and be cooperative, then I am scum avoiding waves. By dismissing me as arrogant, you don't have to listen to a thing I say, and that is a discredit.

Okay so remember when i said the one thing I hate about playing with you is that you don't read my posts and accuse me of doing things I'm not doing. Yeah, you keep doing that this game.

Why didn't you have a problem with rb when he was ranting about nacho being arrogant?

And what I said was that I didn't understand why rb was calling nacho arrogant and ranting against him but being lovey dovey to you when you are an arrogant player and it was suggested that it was odd he was being nice to you.

Never said or implied any of the bullshit you're peddling right now.

Stop with the bullshit to me and scum hunt. This doesn't look town, this looks like you trying to distract me with an argument so you can discredit me and then make me useless before you kill me tonight.

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 6:25 am

In post 1934, Keyser Söze wrote:
Spoiler: earlier interactions
In post 990, Tammy wrote:
In post 944, Keyser Söze wrote:- I don't believe his tone or sincerity (call it gut)
- not following up suspicion with a vote/pressure (RE: TheRealGin-N-Tonic)
- his scum-case on Fro99er felt reachy/desperate/weak
- his defence of Alisae felt unsupported (lacking adequate town-paranoia)
- I feel like Nacho is trying to play a safe game
This is nacho's town tone.

What pressure was lacking from Gin? Why does that lead to him scum?

How did his meta case based on previous experience with early Frogger seem reachy or weak? Why does him acknowledging he could be playing a gambit mean he has to move him to null? It was in the first 24-hours of the game why can't he pressure his scum reads?

Why is he supposed to show paranoia in the first 24 hours of the game? And why can't be that town paranoia?

How is he trying to play a safe game?

- I cannot say I have a strong meta-knowledge on his "town" tone. Does Nacho have a definitive town-tone you can easily notice? As scum, does he not have the ability to imitate his tone?

Spoiler:

Yes, I can. No, he does not have the ability to imitate his town-tone as scum, not for what I look for. He can try for a little bit, but it doesn't hold up well. I can read nacho very very well. Most recently, in Keybladewielder's game (Prism hydrad with Nacho), I scumread nacho during our first interaction because his interaction with me was wrong. In OOTS, I weakly town read nacho at first but by the end of day one accurately scum read him. In Laundry mafia, I held optimistic hope that he was town after he mediated a fight, but day two I scum read him. In Gay Mafia, I townread him early but got paranoid he was scum because he seemed to hand wave my suspicions, which is what he does a lot as scum when I scum read his partners, but he was town.

His motivation when scum is different than as town and that comes across easily. I read him based on tone, interaction with me, then how he's looking at the game. All of this is his town game.

ks wrote: - Nacho did argue that he was interacting with Gin (which was a point I could not contest, as he was being actively inquisitive with the slot). However, in my eyes Nacho never escalated this suspicion/doubt to a vote. Looking back, it may have been feeding into my Gin-Nacho scum-theory. The way he later cross-examines Alisae more recently too without landing a final punch or bottom line read also made be suspicious. My tldr take on this is: this is gentle scum-distancing.

I'd say that here his approach to people is different based on who they are. Nacho can interrogate one person while having his vote on another. I believe at the time he was scum reading frogger and sorting that out while still questioning gin and expressing feeling a bit off. I can't imagine scum!nacho being afraid of voting Gin early when he could easily move it off. Regarding Alisae, I think he was trying to shore up his read there. And as a side note - he's worked a hell of a lot of overtime the past week, I don't think he'll be making any substantive posts until later today or tomorrow.

ks wrote: - My perspective of this was that Nacho was clutching at straws, and used this meta-read to land a forced vote on fro99er. Obviously, as soon as fro99er starts posting the whole argument falls apart (as it was based on activity, which in my book is non alignment indicative to begin with anyway. Sometimes there are hidden motives for big posters to stay quiet or even IRL issues). The only thing I can defend Nacho with is: it's early D1 - thus, scum reads won't be backed up with deep substance. I can understand this.

If you think you have a meta tell on someone and they are appearing to show that tell then you push it. I've seen frogger be very active as scum, and I was very suspicious of his early play. Other than that, yes early reads are early reads. I don't know why he wouldn't push it.

ks wrote: - regarding Nacho's defence of Alisae, I feel he town-read Alisae's 'frustration' too easily. Nacho couldn't see the scum-motivation in Alisae dropping his fro99er case so easy only to jump on Boonskiies right after. But Alisae's case on fro99er was without momentum or substance, so I didn't buy that argument.

Nacho reads people as strongly town pretty early and has people get after him for town reading too many people too early. nacho works around his town reads. He reads things like frustration or tone and determines whether or not he thinks it's town.

ks wrote: - safe game: read the town players as town. Don't make any large ripples, and vote/scum-read the players who are a viable wagon. I am yet to see Nacho really push through a scum-read. Calling town players town is easy (some possible cases of TMI), but the more I see Nacho follow through with a scum read, I think the better I'll be able to get my head around his alignment. Because right now I am not buying his game-solving tone.

Nacho works around town reads. He'll get feels based on things he picks up as scum, but mostly he solves by getting his town reads first and settling there working out from that. I have faith you'll see the pushing through a scum read thing when he can get back into the game with full force.

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 6:28 am

Spoiler:

So RB was ranting and discrediting and in general trying to make another player feel like shit and you're okay with that. But I make a comment that you are an arrogant player, didn't attack you about it, in fact said several of my favorite players are arrogant players and somehow I'm doing this bullshit you're claiming. You've made more noise about it than I did.

I've been very clear why I suspect you.

I'm very sorry you drew scum again against me Titus. I really am.

If this is actually town you. I've tried. I've tried again, but please don't see me in the sign up thread and sign up to play with me again to behave this way with me again. I'm not saying I'm blacklisting here, but I've had all the patience I can deal with with you.

You can keep lying all you want. I'm not going to argue with you. I'm just going to vote you and hopefully lynch you.

VOTE: titus

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 6:31 am

TItus is in obfuscate and lie mode.

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 6:36 am

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 6:41 am

In post 1558, Tammy wrote:This is why rb's treatment of nacho wigged me so much. Now I don't know what rb's experience with Titus is, but fire bringer seemed like he was suggesting that they always argue. And Titus, you know I love you so this is not an insult, but I know very few people at this site more arrogant than Titus. So him talking about nacho like nobody could deal with him because he was so arrogant and rude and insulting but playing lovey-dovey with Titus feels all kinds of wrong.

And here is for the context of when I said she was arrogant. Notice the Titus, you now I love you this is not an insult. This was in response to Titus telling frogger to go back to the newbie queue and was explaining my issue with RB.

When I referred to it again, I said that some of my favorite players are arrogant players.

It was not an attack. It was a comment on a player type and why I did not like RB's interaction with nacho.

The rest of it was just sheer lies and obfuscation.

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 6:43 am

And hey guess what sometimes scum ask if scum have day chat in an attempt to make a fake dumb tell.

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 6:47 am

Hey guess what guys?

Scum have day chat.

Wanna know why?

Implosion and Gin have it.

TADA

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 6:51 am

What's your lynchpool titus?

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 6:54 am

Nacho giving a town read on me doesn't mean nobody else can sort me no matter when it was given.

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 6:56 am

In post 2019, Titus wrote:
In post 2015, Tammy wrote:What's your lynchpool titus?
Ali, Ari, Implosion, Nacho, Hiraki

See if you were reading my posts you'd see that the only person on that list I'm hard town reading is nacho.

None of those are in my lynchpool, but they aren't my town reads, no.

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 6:59 am

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 7:09 am

That is going to be my response to every lie or misrepresentation titus gives of me.

Disagreeing with people on a read and telling them why I disagree on someone I can read better than anyone is not discrediting. I have been open to listen to people's reasons and have refuted where the perception is wrong. If somebody is town and incorrectly scum reading town then their view of the game is wrong. If I can get them off a wrong track, I will.

The last few pages of titus are just blatant lies and mist. She's trying to antagonize me the same way she did to boonskies.

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 7:10 am

In post 2026, Titus wrote:Tammy, eyerolling isn't a productive discussion. I have players I am willing to lynch, who you don't TR yet refuse to vote. I TR everyone else. So I need you to state why you won't vote them.

You're my top scum read.

Keyser is my second.

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 7:11 am

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 7:17 am

In post 2033, Prism wrote:I'm mixed on Titus but I'd lean town. My impression of the Nacho/implosion first pages were that it seemed entirely normal for a town Nacho and weird for a town implosion, so I get how she characterized them as "off". I've only got one game with implosion, where he was town and I was mafia, and he was noticeably more different. I chalked this difference up mainly to a difference in characters present, as I have noticed that Nacho (and it seems Tammy) drastically change interpersonal dynamics. I'm also just not confident in my memory from a game months ago that I was scum in anyway.

I agree that the push on Hikari was really bad, but I wouldn't characterize it as scummy. There's a difference between a bad case and a malicious case, and this seems more like the former. (I'm talking primarily about their comments with regards to sorting-I don't think she'd have made those as scum if she knew they were fallacious. It was likely unintentional.) This doesn't really affect my read on Titus but I think Tammy's characterization of Titus simply muttering rather than actively trying to sort is also inaccurate, skimming Titus's ISO I've seen numerous followups/attempts to extract more, especially early on with Implosion and later with Hikari. In general I've been skeptical of Titus's reasoning but I see no reason to think of them as malicious, instead seeing reason to view them as coming from the right place, and they seem genuine. The Nacho scumread is a really odd one to push if she's scum with anyone besides Nacho.

Early on with implosion, yes, but it got dropped and she wasn't prodding anything else, nor did she react to implosions vote on her which should have been a red flag.

The hiraki thing is literally the only town thing she's done.

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 7:21 am

Spoiler:

I'm no longer pissed. I no longer care that you repeatedly lie, don't read my posts and antagonize me. I'm done caring because I'm done trying.

Lie away.

I am scumreading you. If that's not been clear since early game with me trying to sort you and ask you to start being town if you are, then okay.

My suspicion in keyser was clear early on. But go ahead and tell me how you read my posts.

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 7:24 am

In post 2045, Prism wrote:I don't agree with your characterization of Titus's posts in the last few pages, Tammy. She clearly townreads you but is frustrated with some elements of your play, and while you may think of disagreeing and explaining as not being discrediting, you're already doing the same in that very post.

You explicitly state that Nacho is "someone you can read better than anyone." While this is likely a fact, the implication of it is that other's opinions on him are inherently less valuable or valid. This again
can be completely true
but it is definitely discrediting Titus. I think her reaction here feels town in the sense that she's not saying you're discrediting her from a scum place, but rather something you're doing as town that she thinks you should stop.

P-Edit: This is moving quickly so some parts of this may be outdated, I'll respond to anything in between in a followup rather than edit it now.

I don't agree with any of this at all.

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 7:25 am

In post 2046, Fro99er wrote:
In post 2041, Titus wrote:You're pissed at me but deep down, you aren't SRing me. Your ISO reads more fuck you I am done than you're scum, die now. Keyser being your second scumread also makes no sense given how little you've dedicated to sorting him or supporting Frogger. It looks like you're just trying to be cooperative for the sake of it.
This is why I can't go for Titus today

this post screams town to me even when I think other things scream not town at times about her.

You really think the shit she threw at me in the last few pages is her as town because if it is I'm literally going to punch ,yself in the face and hope to gods she stops bloody signing up for games with me in them.

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 7:28 am

So her lying, antoshinising and just in general being a jerk to someone she signed up to play with is her town?

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 7:30 am

Spoiler:

In post 2047, Titus wrote:
In post 2044, Tammy wrote:
In post 2033, Prism wrote:I'm mixed on Titus but I'd lean town. My impression of the Nacho/implosion first pages were that it seemed entirely normal for a town Nacho and weird for a town implosion, so I get how she characterized them as "off". I've only got one game with implosion, where he was town and I was mafia, and he was noticeably more different. I chalked this difference up mainly to a difference in characters present, as I have noticed that Nacho (and it seems Tammy) drastically change interpersonal dynamics. I'm also just not confident in my memory from a game months ago that I was scum in anyway.

I agree that the push on Hikari was really bad, but I wouldn't characterize it as scummy. There's a difference between a bad case and a malicious case, and this seems more like the former. (I'm talking primarily about their comments with regards to sorting-I don't think she'd have made those as scum if she knew they were fallacious. It was likely unintentional.) This doesn't really affect my read on Titus but I think Tammy's characterization of Titus simply muttering rather than actively trying to sort is also inaccurate, skimming Titus's ISO I've seen numerous followups/attempts to extract more, especially early on with Implosion and later with Hikari. In general I've been skeptical of Titus's reasoning but I see no reason to think of them as malicious, instead seeing reason to view them as coming from the right place, and they seem genuine. The Nacho scumread is a really odd one to push if she's scum with anyone besides Nacho.
Early on with implosion, yes, but it got dropped and she wasn't prodding anything else, nor did she react to implosions vote on her which should have been a red flag.

The hiraki thing is literally the only town thing she's done.
It hasn't been dropped. That's clearly a misrep. I bitched several times about Implosion being rejected, he's still in my lynch pool and lurked out. Holy crap woman.

When did you talk about implosion beyond the early stuff when I asked? When did you react to implosions vote on me?

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 7:31 am

In post 2067, Titus wrote:
In post 2062, Tammy wrote:So her lying, antoshinising and just in general being a jerk to someone she signed up to play with is her town?
Not sure what the second word is, but uncooperative players tend to label me as a jerk.

Please never sign up for a game with me in it again.

If it weren't for nacho in this game, I would replace out. I've had it with you.

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 7:33 am

You couldn't react to his vote on you because he was lurking?

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 7:36 am

Just so you know titus is doing the same things she did and planned to do in gay mafia when she was scum. Her plan was to undermine and discredit me so that I couldn't be useful and get town to work together.

She now is trying to characterize me as uncooperative and someone you have to shout over (thanks frogger for correcting that misconception that was swell of you /s when she knows my strength as a player is getting town to work together.

This is just another of her blatant lies and attempts to antagonize me and I do not think it is town at all.

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 7:40 am

In post 2085, Fro99er wrote:And again, Tammy wasn't calling you arrogant as an insult. It was to level with you.

Arrogance can be both a good and bad thing. It's how you use that arrogance.

I was using it to explain what I thoight was off about rb's interaction with nacho.

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 7:48 am

Spoiler:

Thank you! I appreciate it.

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 7:50 am

None of those things happened.

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 7:55 am

In post 1975, Fro99er wrote:
In post 1969, Tammy wrote:It's not by activity. When you're here I like what you're saying and I feel all cozy, but the feeling doesn't linger as much as I'd like it to.
That's fine.

You'll see i'm town as the game goes on. I have faith.

I have faith too.

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 8:13 am

You can't bounce ideas off of me arthur

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 8:14 am

we used to be so good together

rip titan

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 8:23 am

In post 2105, Keyser Söze wrote:Titus has been insulted, miss-repped and discredited this game. Her behaviour is the result of those attacks.

This post makes me wonder if this is scum trying to get on the side of town who would be most likely to save him.

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 8:37 am

Spoiler:

Nobody insulted Titus and considering her 'bad' reaction to it has been lodged quite squarely at me and nobody else in which she did all the things you're accusing others of doing to her including a healthy dose of passive aggression, please point out where scum just jumped on her for it.

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 8:38 am

Oh I quoted that first post because I was thinking it might be too cheeky to come from implosion scum, but then I read a couple posts after and yeah I'm just back to mud on implosion.

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 8:41 am

In post 2111, Prism wrote: This is a really terrible reason but I also just like her read on me early. She knows from Nacho that my scumgame is not to be undersold but seemed to realize the honesty present in my early posts. It's possible she's townreading me to get Nacho to pull her back and seem legitimate and fool him in turn, but I think this is unlikely.

I have you on the positive side of null but it's not a town read.

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 9:27 am

In post 2072, Titus wrote:I told you I couldn't bc lurking. He still is.

This is regarding Implosion. I just searched for you answering this. You never did say this nor did you respond to my question about his vote on you.

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 9:30 am

In post 2140, Keyser Söze wrote:I believe I am the only person who has been reading Titus' posts... do you think Titus' reaction has been rational if none of those factors are real?

'Misguided mob' mentality happens when scum latch onto and help town-frustration fester on low hanging fruit.

I have read every Titus post more than once. I've tried interacting with her and getting a read on her.

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 9:33 am

In post 2132, Keyser Söze wrote:@Tammy - you are the townie who has misunderstood Titus' attitude, tone and motivation. Your frustration with Titus for not complying with the limited way you think Town-Titus should be playing like is fueling your suspicion. Your frustration in turn is fueling her grievance with this game.

My frustration with Titus stems from her not reading my posts and lying about things I'm doing. I've pointed out every time she's stated I'm doing something I'm not doing.

My most recent frustration comes from her antagonizing attack on me which I think was purposeful and meant to upset me, discredit me and throw me off my game so that I can't get anything done, something she very recently did as scum so it is her m.o. Her attacks, and lies and passive aggression towards me don't read town.

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 9:34 am

Why are you trying to appease titus?

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 9:37 am

Wbo do you think is most likely to be scum?

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 9:42 am

Nobody gets yelled at for scumhutning.

Gods I hope scum kills me tonight which is really fucking sad because I was really enjoying this really rare moment of nacho and I being town together in a game.

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 9:43 am

And i love that everyone is town reading her for passive aggression and antagonizing people which is just encouraging her to do it further.

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 9:45 am

You should go reread the beginning of that game.

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 9:50 am

In post 2189, Fro99er wrote:Guys

I am going to be the cohesion this town needs. I promise.

tammy and titus, I TR you both. I think we're on the right track if you two can work together. I really do.

And I don't want a response post to this post saying how you guys cant or excuse this excuse that. We're gonna do this. I like you both, lots (even if I get so frustrated with Titus at times -- I know she's good people)

I can not work with her. I just can't. This bullshit she's spilling on me this entire day is too much.

The only only only reason I am still in this game right now is because nacho and I are town together, and I'm not going to replace out on him. But I am miserable. She did exactly what she wanted to do. She's lying and continues to lie and she will continue to lie; she wants me out and she wants me shut up. She's doing everything she can to hurt my feelings. I think it's because she's scum. I hope it's because she's scum. But I am miserable.

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 9:59 am

I haven't lied or insulted at all. (That egotistical comment i guess was insulting but it was how I viewed you being with boon skies, and I apologized.)

I don't think I'm better than anyone. I really quite frankly think I'm shit at everything.

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 10:02 am

I'VE BEEN LISTENING TO AND READING EVERY POST. I'VE ASKED FOR UPDATES ON THOUGHTS. YOU CAN SCUM READ NACHO ALL YOU WANT, YOU'RE JUST WRONG. IF YOU'RE TOWN AND YOU'RE WRONG ON A SCUM READ THEN YOU'RE VIEW OF THE GAME IS WRONG. I'M NOT JUST GOING TO NOT POINT OUT SOMETHING I KNOW IS WRONG.

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 10:32 am

In post 2243, Ser Arthur Dayne wrote:
In post 2117, Tammy wrote:You can't bounce ideas off of me arthur

In post 2118, Tammy wrote:we used to be so good together

rip titan
Tammy I do enjoy bouncing ideas off you!

And we still work well together.

But I'm also paranoid that this looks a lot similar to laundry mafia where nacho was trying to buddy up to you, except here he did it a little less to you and more to hikari. I know you're townreading him and I generally trust your read on him because it's p accurate most of the time so I would love if you talked to me about why he's town.

In Laundry Mafia he mediated an argument because that's who he is. If he sees me getting really upset in a game, he's going to want to help. He does that quite often for a lot of people regardless of alignment sometimes. OOTS is a good example of what he looks like when he buddies me at the start of the game in a scummy way.

As far as him not being here, I fully expect him to be here today or tomorrow. He's just worked a metric shit ton of overtime the past few days.

His interaction with me at the start of the game wasn't buddying and it wasn't ignoring. He still hasn't quite got the hang of how to interact with me the right amount when he's scum. Here he did.

But beyond that and what's better and more convincing is the amount of game-solvey he was right from the start. Those types of detailed reads and jumping in feet first and pushing the game are far more indicative of his town game. If you look at that meta read case on frogger, that's one example of it. As town he wants to push reads and figure things out and if he finds a bone he pushes it. He might have pushed frogger as scum, but not developed the early game case that he did. The other things are him popping in when he doesn't have much time to shore up reads or interact with people even if it's in a limited way. His popping in to ask Alisae a couple questions but not do a whole lot with it, looks like him seeing something he wanted to figure out if it was off or not.

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 10:37 am

In post 2228, Firebringer wrote:
In post 2226, Tammy wrote:I'VE BEEN LISTENING TO AND READING EVERY POST. I'VE ASKED FOR UPDATES ON THOUGHTS. YOU CAN SCUM READ NACHO ALL YOU WANT, YOU'RE JUST WRONG. IF YOU'RE TOWN AND YOU'RE WRONG ON A SCUM READ THEN YOU'RE VIEW OF THE GAME IS WRONG. I'M NOT JUST GOING TO NOT POINT OUT SOMETHING I KNOW IS WRONG.
Tammy let's do yoga.

ohm

I havne't done yoga in a while

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 10:45 am

I should probably stop trying to point out where Titus is just incredibly wrong about everything she's stated about me. She will never see the truth, nor will she admit where she's gone wrong.

I just hope that not everyone in this game buys into the bullshit she's said. Keyser can, that's cool.

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 10:48 am

In post 1652, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:
In post 1647, Tammy wrote:
In post 1644, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:It's honestly way to early to game solve in my opinion

We game solved like real life day one of dbz one and solved the game in just a couple days. (Granted it was kind of broken but still)
I mean, personally for me I don't get good at scum hunting and game breaking till after the 7 day mark of deadline and I work together with someone.

The main reason I'm trying to shove a townread against both of us is that I want to be pseudo masons for D1 and just bloody break the game

Spoiler:
Subject: Mini 1869- camn's revenge GAME OVER!

Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 2056, Vaxkiller wrote:I don't see why you couldn't, especially day 1.Besides, most of us do not have that type of time to devote to anything, so how is the AI?
There is a difference between posting for 8 hours and scumhunting for 8 hours.
Scumhunting is AI from a player because, if a player is scum, they have to either fake it entirely (scumreads), or they have to decide whether they will townread a player and close them off from a lynch or whether they will try to get away with townreading a buddy (townreads).
The way that they scumhunted for 8 hours in particular is important to me because the thought progression becomes much, much harder to fake; there are moments of genuine-looking paranoia, there are reads going to town and then falling back to scum as more of the picture becomes clear, there are moments where it felt like the game was really solved, there's pride in the end result.

You say that most people don't have that type of time to devote to the game - hell yes, it was an extremely rare and unusual circumstance that brought us together for a Thursday night but when a rare and unusual circumstance leads to three people posting and commenting on the game for 8 hours straight, it seems kind of foolish to throw that out the window as not alignment indicative, don't you think?

Like I've said before, if you've brought specific criticisms, bring them up. If you don't have specific criticisms and just have uneasy feelings, there's nothing I've done - I've thought about this game and I've thought about my townreads them in particular for longer than I've thought about most games and so if something is going to chance in my reads, then it will be in response to new information; it won't be because someone tells me to read again.

Does that make sense?

The spoilered is something I've carried in my mind for a long time and brought it into every game I play with Nacho. I'm not even saying I need 8 hours but just a sit down and spitting back and forth is what makes me know if I'm dealing with town or scumcho.

So I mean yeah, I'm shoving a town read down Nacho's throat and it's because my play becomes 10fold accurate when we jam together.

tl;dr: Forcing a town read between us so we can work together to break the game revealing our true alignments.
(Also cuz my mind is like a collage of reads on a billboard and I need a person to bounce them off too so I can start making connections)

I liked this interaction from Gin. Beyond that I'm looking forward to their jam session and hope it will help me get a read on him one way or the other.

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 10:49 am

In post 2266, Fro99er wrote:Taaaaammmmmmmmyyyyyy

I believe your town case on Nacho. I really do.

Do you think keyser is town, because that post makes it sound like you think keyser is town buying into a scum!Titus' BS

No, the stuff that titus threw at me and about me was full of lies and somewhat personal. I'm just not going to care anymore; I just hope that people don't actually think that.

I was kinda being snide about keyser because of his statements earlier.

I think keyser has a really good chance of being scum.

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 10:52 am

In post 490, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:(expired on 2017-05-11 20:00:00)

You're going to have to change this countdown by the way Gin.

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 12:21 pm

Arthur I think one thing bothering me about your Prism read is how you're saying Town do X, Scum do Y, when you know that there isn't such a strict parameter for either. And I've seen you put more thought into understanding people than going a black and white scum express this behavior, not town.

Also, this is not to you just in general, but I just read through Alisae and I don't see scum. I'm not at super strong town either and the earlier mocking and caps did read fake, but he kinda feels all over the place and I just don't understand the scum reads there. Can someone who's scum reading him talk to me about this one?

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 4:52 pm

In post 2290, Ser Arthur Dayne wrote:Wait, he only helps people when scum or are you saying it NAI for him? I got the feeling he wants to work with people in gay mafia through ~interactions~ but that when he buddies people it's more because of his scum game. And that was the feeling I got when he replied to Hikari.

Okay this might be a bit complicated. The mediating in and of itself is NAI. I guess sometimes the way he does it and why could be alignment indicative, but that's a part of the read process with him that I've not considered because I read him elsewhere. I just know that he does mediate as town too.

The way he buddies people could be alignment indicative, and yeah probably is. But he quite often as town will do what he did with hiraki in which he wants to help people get adjusted in the game and if he can do something to help he will. I think this one is hard to explain and is something that you have to see him do it as town and as scum a few times in his several ways to find which way is alignment indicative.

This answer probably isn't that helpful because these are things that are harder to describe, but I think with hiraki he legitimately didn't want him to replace out because the game was difficult do to people knowing each other and wanted to give him a foot hold in the game so he didn't feel so left out.

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 5:09 pm

Spoiler:

Okay I'd hoped something along those lines as I know you do that sometimes, but it just felt very odd when I know you think more deeply than scum do x, town do y.

(I've been burned a few times by the asking people to engage thing. I feel like it worked so well at home, but several times I've suspected someone for that type of question and they've ended up being town. I get what you're saying, but I just don't believe it in very strongly any more.)

I modded that game! I don't remember the alt though, but I remember the game. I did read Alisae's early game as off. The mocking and caps rage felt wrong to me, but it always does. Like katsuki when he does it, I always think he's scum until he stops and posts in his more normal way. I know that I suspect posts like that though. But I thought that his explanations for stuff felt fine. I'm also sappy and he's appealed to me several times and asked me to power town with him and it makes me want to hug him and town read him. I also think he approached frogger a little weird if he's actually scum. I'm not sure if that makes sense, but if they're site bff's I'd expect some crafting to his game to fit around frogger because he'd be his biggest obstacle here.

Oh he does seem legitimately bothered here and there that people aren't listening to his reads and with the exception of boon skies that didn't feel fake. I don't think. Maybe.

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 5:23 pm

I actually like that post.

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 5:43 pm

keyser is a good vote, yes.

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 5:55 pm

Spoiler:

Well on keyser you say that it looks like he's in confirmation bias and scum wouldn't want to do that because it wouldn't be a good look, but some scum do tunnel on town players to look like they're convinced and have a hard time changing their reads. Static reads with no change whatsoever is often a product of scum.

On fire bringer you're giving an easy contribution equals alignment in which you say he's not doing much, but if you read what he's actually said and the reads he's actually given they've been pretty good.

Your scum read on prism is due to putting a vote on someone when he knew he'd have limited access, which isn't a scum tell in the slightest.

Most of your scum reads or questioning reads boil down to lack of contribution without looking at the actual contribution given, which is pretty superficial reasoning.

So the reasoning looks weak, but you don't have a lot of experience so some of this can be a product of a lack of experience with teasing out the intricacies of what contribution is present and what makes someone town/scum. Or it can be scum who is scum reading people for easy reasoning.

Some of your posts look really townie, but as a whole I'm just not sure which it is.

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 6:02 pm

Yeah, I'm not interested in wagoning Ari today.

I'm most likely to join keyser as regardless of anyone else I think he's most likely to flip scum.

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 6:14 pm

Well that's what I was trying to get across with the game-solvey from the start and jumping in explaining things in a way he does when he's town, so you said it better than I did.

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 6:34 pm

My scum read on Keyser and his treatment of Titus is literally the only thing that has me second guessing the titus scum read because it just does not feel right. Titus beating me the fuck down to try to drive me out of the game is something she has done as scum before, so I don't town read that.

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 7:22 pm

Erm that is something I've been trying to work out for the really quick games I play.

Look at the wagons and iso the top wagon getters? ISO your strongest scum reads?

I sometimes skim and pay attention to what my strong town reads are doing and what their reading and try to balance out myself with their thoughts and reads.

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 7:40 pm

All of that is fair!

Isoing does deprive context and makes it suboptimal.

Just following town reads also *can* be suboptimal because yes just because they're town doesn't mean they're right.

They're definitely imperfect solutions to trying to catchup in a game moving faster than you can dedicate to every post, but for day one at least it can be a stop-gap measure.

Some people take the view that as long as their town reads aren't lynched day one, they don't really care who is lynched since it's almost always a mislynch anyway, that's an imperfect view to have also, but it's one some players take.

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 7:41 pm

Also I sometimes skim when I get behind and then deal with gut reads, but that's also imperfect although my gut reads in those situations have been okay when I've done it.

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 8:08 pm

so implosion why do you scum read keyser?

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 8:33 pm

In post 2371, implosion wrote:There's a certain part of me that is just super super inclined to write off hikari as town for the way he talks about himself. I don't think that part of me should be allowed to exercise full control of that read though, or perhaps any control whatsoever.

Yeah, I think this too.

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 8:34 pm

Hikari - I think the trick is to find/figure out which imperfect method works for you.

Tammy · Mon May 08, 2017 8:53 pm

Tammy · Tue May 09, 2017 6:53 am

That hammer was fucking atrocious.

If keyser is town here one of my reasons for thinking little miss passive aggressive totally over aggressive might be town is gone. If I'm gone tomorrow, please don't let her style make you stop scumhunting, this is exactly how she's treated me as scum before.

Tammy · Tue May 09, 2017 6:54 am

I was looking forward to watching the jam session so I could get a better read on gin.

Implosions continued sleeping continue to bother me.

Tammy · Tue May 09, 2017 6:56 am

Sheeping

Tammy · Tue May 09, 2017 7:01 am

Part of me this that titus is planning to kill nacho tonight and that's why she's made the big stink and posturyness about him. And implosion is her partner and that's why he's sheeping like crazy. And that's why titus didn't even sneeze when her scum reads voted her. That is very very weird.

Maybe crazy thoight maybe not something is not right there.

Tammy · Tue May 09, 2017 7:02 am

If keyser has been trolling the whole time then probably crazy thoight, but her day one play makes no sense for town. She beats people down as scum too.

Tammy · Tue May 09, 2017 7:04 am

Ask yourself why titus gets pissed when people hammer while she's not there as if it's a particular insult to her and then hammers when there are people who said they were catching up today.

Tammy · Thu May 11, 2017 9:00 am

I don't have any feedback.

I'm confused about that kill as he was ending up in my Poe, but I'm glad my original read there and evaluation of our interaction was right. Anyway, I wish there was more than one person in the neighborhood so we could know whether or not he claimed there. I guess he could have just been someone who was a middling town lean for most people but unlikely to be healed.

Or he jailed he nightkill and a vig/so shot him?

I dunno.

I'm still suspicious about titus. There were a couple posts where I wondered if I was wrong, in particular one personal type attack that o wonder would be too low for her to go as scum.

What I didn't like was that titus hadn't said word one about keyser until frogger started suspecting him and I wondered if keyser could be scum whiteknighting a town titus. Then titus started feeding into that a bit. That hammer was absolutely atrocious. Titus bitches when people hammer while she's away; she claims it's the thread not respecting her. So days before deadline and before her suspects can do what they said they were going to do that very day, she hammers right after the claim? I'm having a huge problem with that coming from town titus.

If she's town, she needs to step it up today.

Tammy · Thu May 11, 2017 9:02 am

Also hoping hikari link starts working on thread stuff and being an active sorter of the game and not just talking so many theory-ish points, what he's going to do, etc.

Also hoping prism makes some actual game strides today.

Tammy · Thu May 11, 2017 9:21 am

I'm not saying you should replace out! You are just a question mark, and I need to clear that one up to see if there are scum in my town reads.

Tammy · Thu May 11, 2017 12:12 pm

In post 2540, Prism wrote:If you have any questions about my play thus far, now is the time to ask as later it will be a black box.

My reads that are my own that I can recall (ie. Not trusting Nacho on Tammy) are Titus town and Gin scum. I would assign medium confidence to Titus town and low confidence in Gin scum.

But you did trust nacho on me, you made a whole post about why you town read me and it was part of nacho town reading me and you thinking that he might be trying to fool me.

Tammy · Thu May 11, 2017 2:50 pm

If the role is real, doesn't it not matter who you shoot. If you shoot town, they get confirmed and you die. If you shoot mafia hurry you live and we're down one scum.

So shoot your strongest scum read and cross your fingers. If you're actually a desperado then I don't even care if you shoot a town read of mine. They get confirmed and that's another person I don't get paranoid about and you the question mark dies which means another person I don't have to worry about.

If you're actually a vig and not a desperado then I do care, but I think this hullabaloo is just distraction.

Tammy · Thu May 11, 2017 2:51 pm

And if one of my town reads is actually scum then I don't have to worry which one is hiding in there.

(And no it's not nacho)

Tammy · Thu May 11, 2017 2:58 pm

In post 2711, Alisae wrote:I can't gambit without pissing everyone off...
Whatever.

Replace me

I don't think anyone was pissed off, but when it's an obvious gambit it's obvious it's probably not good to keep pushing it.

You don't have to replace out over it. I want you to stay in!

Tammy · Thu May 11, 2017 2:59 pm

I doubt there's a night-talk enabler when night talk is just standard.

Also you don't have to be in a neighborhood to be an enabler.

Tammy · Thu May 11, 2017 3:00 pm

day talk enabler is not normal?

Tammy · Thu May 11, 2017 3:00 pm

I have no idea what is going on in this game right now

Tammy · Thu May 11, 2017 3:02 pm

In post 2727, Firebringer wrote:
In post 2725, Tammy wrote:day talk enabler is not normal?
Encrytpor is a normal role.

okay I thought so.

I don't play normals that often, so I'm not up on what is on the list.

pedit Im so confused.

Tammy · Thu May 11, 2017 3:05 pm

Okay thanks!

Well for Gin to be confirmed scum from it he'd have to have believed Alisae's gambit when it was obviously fake, know that his role is a non-normal role, and know that normals only have the possibility of one non-normal role, along with desperado being a non-normal role.

Tammy · Thu May 11, 2017 3:06 pm

In post 2746, Nachomamma8 wrote:I would rather both of you didn't replace out.

Tammy · Thu May 11, 2017 3:24 pm

I don't understand why they replaced out, I like playing with both of them

Tammy · Thu May 11, 2017 4:16 pm

So alisae wasn't fake claiming after all:p

Tammy · Thu May 11, 2017 4:16 pm

I kill me.

Hi desperado!

Tammy · Thu May 11, 2017 5:06 pm

I watched it twice!

Tammy · Thu May 11, 2017 5:21 pm

I love you guys

Tammy · Thu May 11, 2017 6:40 pm

Yay infinity hi!

Tammy · Thu May 11, 2017 6:41 pm

In post 2810, Desperado wrote:i am almost always down to lynch Titus

what's she done this time

You argued against it in gay mafia.

I know you said almost always, but.

Tammy · Thu May 11, 2017 7:09 pm

How would saying you're not a vig soft confirm you as town?

Tammy · Thu May 11, 2017 7:15 pm

I'm good with you doing it that way that way I can keep up with your thoughts while I'm grading until I pass out.

Tammy · Thu May 11, 2017 7:25 pm

In post 2835, Firebringer wrote:Tammy are you a teacher?

Yep!

Tammy · Thu May 11, 2017 7:27 pm

Okay well that helps to solidify my already strong town read on Arthur.

That means implosion blocked the night kill then, or the killer I guess but I don't think anybody uses a jailkeep for finding scum night one.

Tammy · Thu May 11, 2017 7:33 pm

Oh wait duh Arthur are you gambitting?

I feel like I'm just ready to accept implosion was vigged because he's such an odd night kill, but then I forget that Arthur likes to gambit.

Tammy · Thu May 11, 2017 7:43 pm

Sorry if that was a gambit you were doing for reactions or something, I know you'd fess up sooner or later if that's the case. If I didn't buy into too readily I'd probably have kept quiet, but. I'm grading finals, it's late, I'm tired :/

pedit: you did fake claim ~10 times in Gay Mafia.

Tammy · Thu May 11, 2017 7:43 pm

And yeah you could be telling the truth.

Tammy · Thu May 11, 2017 8:02 pm

I have called you hiraki almost every single time. Sorry, I know what it is, but there is another player named hiraki and I think I just mix up the names :/

Tammy · Thu May 11, 2017 9:03 pm

Well now i'm just going to call you kevin!

Or Bob.

Spoiler: ♥

Tammy · Thu May 11, 2017 9:04 pm

Also hi leonshade!

Tammy · Thu May 11, 2017 9:09 pm

I was just kidding. I'll probably get kelvin right, maybe.

Tammy · Fri May 12, 2017 6:00 pm

Nobody is town reading Aristophanes based on activity. He's low activity regardless sometimes, but he does tend to lurk extremely heavily as scum, like way more than here.

Where he is outside of his scum range is in the actual things he's saying when he posts.

Tammy · Fri May 12, 2017 6:04 pm

desperado not coming back yet is ehhhhh.

Tammy · Fri May 12, 2017 6:40 pm

Spoiler:

In post 2348, Aristophanes wrote:
In post 2346, Ser Arthur Dayne wrote:
In post 2050, Aristophanes wrote:Wait...when did SAD get in here!?

In post 2069, Titus wrote:
In post 2069, Aristophanes wrote:What in the everloving fuck did I do!?
XD XD XD
Your reads? P.s. SAD was rb.

In post 2085, Aristophanes wrote:Fire replaced out? That's sad. He was the RB slot right? Oh well, fresh player to read at least.

In post 2331, Aristophanes wrote:Oh, and Titus, I still don't get the point of saying SAD replaced the wrong slot. I let you get away with it to see reactions, and you seem to think it makes me scum. Can you explain it better?
This is not natural thought progression.

I think you're a cool person Ari but this is not town logic whatsoever.
Well then I'm town with scum logic...
Awkward.

In post 2317, Aristophanes wrote:
In post 2315, Ser Arthur Dayne wrote:I just checked and your boonskiies vote is 40 pages old.

And you say nothing is evolving.

How do you just want things to get done if you're not actively pushing for a change.

Like it's easy to say "not much seems to be changing or evolving". Town you wouldn't be satisfied with that and would be pushing for an active change. And trust me, I understand the lazy-scum feeling more than anything.
Okay, and I'm missing another chunk in those 40 pages. I'm honestly not satisfied with just saying that nothing is that I, but I don't have the game knowledge to question people atm, nor a read strong enough to push.

If I were lazy scum I would look extremely different in these posts. I have a long history of horrible scumgames where I don't post. This is not the case here!

In post 2311, Aristophanes wrote:
In post 2308, Ser Arthur Dayne wrote:You just say you're behind

you're not making a conscious effort to TRY or give something for people to work with unless you're probed to death by people.
Well, I am.

I'm trying to form reads and be helpful but I'm not finding much to poke at in my catchups. Everyone is saying things but I find little of it helpful and mist of it just repeats what they said before! Loke, for a game with this many posts, not much seems to be changing or evolving!

In post 2305, Aristophanes wrote:How do people think I'm scum??

I've been behind the whole game. Literally have not been caught up once. What do you think that does for one's reads!?
Do you seriously think that AriScum comes in and picks a fight with Boon like that? Or that I openly admit I skimmed or skipped any long posts?

I'm 7 more behind btw on top of the rest. It's a shit reason to scumread me.

In post 2316, Aristophanes wrote:
In post 2313, Ser Arthur Dayne wrote:It's not even hard if you're actually scumhunting to look at a page and get gut vibes or w/e for different people that you can use at a starting point.
Nah, I can survive without talking points. I just look at the posts this game and feel nothing to swing me either way. None of it feels AI even though it probably should! I'll get there, don't worry. I just haven't felt it yet.

These posts felt decently good from Aristophanes. I'm just not sure that Aristophanes as caught scum goes wait why are people scum reading me? There's some earlier posts that felt decently cheeky as well, but these are just some more recent ones that I liked and I need to get back to grading finals.

Tammy · Fri May 12, 2017 6:42 pm

Hoping kelvin will come back tonight too.

Tammy · Sat May 13, 2017 2:23 pm

Infinity I'm busy elsewhere and in the midst of grading finals and getting final grades submitted. I'll be happy to talk about my reads, though I think I've been pretty open with my thoughts throughout the game, when that is done. I might not really have a chance to do anything that isn't just quick comment though until Monday.

Tammy · Sat May 13, 2017 2:51 pm

Though I think you're doing the lord's work on Hikari. I think they've made a couple really townie posts, but on the whole it's tonally decent and theory-isn stuff that sounds good. Outside of that I find no real drive to solve the game.

I was hoping once day opened, I'd see it if there, but I really haven't yet.

Tammy · Sat May 13, 2017 4:00 pm

Infinity - Have you been in a game where Titus has been town and not reacted to votes on her by her biggest suspects?

I was suspicious of titus earlier on then started wavering some, but when Nacho naked voted her and then Implosion just sheeped nacho and didn't even try to sort Titus beyond trying to interact, Titus didn't respond at all. I think I cared more about Implosion's vote there than Titus did and it just read really wrong that Titus didn't care or notice that her two biggest scum reads were voting her for no reason stated at all.

Tammy · Sat May 13, 2017 4:27 pm

That was the part of my suspicion as well. She pushes on implosion early game but it's only the early game she pushes about. (Yes, I expect Titus to completely disregard my pointing out that it was how Implosion and I always interacted and the iso for proof as well as misread and refuse to rethink the nacho read point.) What I don't expect is for her not to do any further scum hunting on that player. Even if it's just pointing out that he's just lurking.

Tammy · Sat May 13, 2017 4:50 pm

I have a cat does that count?

Tammy · Sat May 13, 2017 5:11 pm

I don't want titus lynched yet because there are other reads I'm working on.

Tammy · Sat May 13, 2017 5:47 pm

With the way that implosion was sheeping nacho and thought that the could get a lot done by doing so, I wouldn't be surprised if he jail kept him to keep him safe.

Tammy · Sat May 13, 2017 5:52 pm

I just really want desperado to do something that can help me with that slot. The thread is pretty well divided on whether Alisae was scum or not, and I'm not good with reading players who read fake to me a bunch. I wanted to town read Alisae and I thought that his appeals to me and wanting to power town with me looked really good, but that's not enough to read somebody off of.

Tammy · Sat May 13, 2017 6:25 pm

In post 3114, Kelvin Smith wrote:These were genuine reads obtained from about 24 hours of labor over a 48 hour period. I didn't stretch for a damn thing, I just carefully analyzed everything I saw, came to the conclusions that made the most sense to me, and articulated my thought process.

I like this sentence.

Tammy · Sat May 13, 2017 6:27 pm

In post 3116, Infinity 324 wrote:
In post 3098, Tammy wrote:I just really want desperado to do something that can help me with that slot. The thread is pretty well divided on whether Alisae was scum or not, and I'm not good with reading players who read fake to me a bunch. I wanted to town read Alisae and I thought that his appeals to me and wanting to power town with me looked really good, but that's not enough to read somebody off of.
You could....take my word for it

Yeah, Nacho is in the Alisae town camp and I've been trying to take his word for it, but it's just one of those reads I'm uneasy on.

Tammy · Sat May 13, 2017 6:44 pm

No, i still think Titus is very likely to be scum. I was hoping if she was actually town that she would do something today that would help me see that. So far, I haven't seen anything to change my suspicions.

If you have asked me anything else, I'm sorry I missed it. I've been trying to get these grades finalized and have been kind of jumping in when I'm taking a quick break from grading, so if I missed something please ask me again.

Tammy · Sat May 13, 2017 6:53 pm

Are you town reading Titus?

Tammy · Sat May 13, 2017 8:11 pm

In post 3151, Titus wrote:
In post 3126, Tammy wrote:No, i still think Titus is very likely to be scum. I was hoping if she was actually town that she would do something today that would help me see that. So far, I haven't seen anything to change my suspicions.

If you have asked me anything else, I'm sorry I missed it. I've been trying to get these grades finalized and have been kind of jumping in when I'm taking a quick break from grading, so if I missed something please ask me again.
Nothing will help you see that you're wrong on me other than lying to you and claiming Nacho's town when he isn't.

I'm open to being wrong on you I've made that very clear, but you've not shown me that and it has nothing to do with your bad read on Nacho. You can keep calling him scum when he isn't, but that's not going to make him scum.

You can also discredit my read all you want and you can say he's just coasting, but there are several people in this game who've seen me doubt and scum read a nacho that was barely present and not doing the things he should be doing. This is not an affinity read, this is not a I'm letting nacho get by read, this is a I know what town nacho looks like and he's town read.

Tammy · Sat May 13, 2017 8:17 pm

What lynch did I push through yesterday?

Tammy · Sat May 13, 2017 8:17 pm

I actually really want an answer to that.

Tammy · Sat May 13, 2017 8:19 pm

In post 2500, nancy wrote:
Votecount 1.19

Keyser Söze
(7)
~ Fro99er, Firebringer, Alisae, Nachomamma8, implosion, Ser Arthur Dayne, Titus

Titus (3)
~ Hikari Link, Tammy, TheRealGin-N-Tonic

Ser Arthur Dayne (1)
~ Aristophanes

Alisae (1)
~ Keyser Söze

TheRealGin-N-Tonic (1)
~ Prism

Not voting (0)
~

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 deadline got fucking hammered.

Just gonna leave this here so everyone can readily recognize Titus' blatant lies.

Tammy · Sat May 13, 2017 8:31 pm

In post 3172, Titus wrote:You pushed through a lynch in my townblock yesterday

And for those of you not caught up.

Yesterday's lynch was on Keyser, a lynch that I thought was fine but was on my second scum read as you can tell in the above vote count, my vote was still on Titus.

Titus is claiming that I pushed through a lynch on someone in her town block, yet she never town read Keyser and in fact when I posited that keyser was scum white knighting a town titus and frogger was noticing the same weirdness she started maneuvering about how yeah that looked possible.

Keyser then claimed VT, and immediately after the claim, one week before deadline, before anybody could react to the claim post, Titus hammered.

That bullshit that I pushed through a lynch on someone in her town block is sheer revisionist bullshit history that you typically find in Texas secondary education textbooks.

Tammy · Sat May 13, 2017 8:41 pm

That's not a weird interpretation though. That is straight up lying.

Tammy · Sat May 13, 2017 9:25 pm

Please don't put her at l-1 yet. I don't want there to be a hammer yet and I want to clear up some of my other reads and hear what infinity has to say.

did I say that I liked the post where desperado told me he was town? Cuz I did. I'm so easy to please.

Tammy · Sat May 13, 2017 10:35 pm

In post 3186, Firebringer wrote:Trust me, Titus has completely different way of looking at a game than us.
She is a moon walker, and that's not like a insult.

She's a liar.

Stop sugar coating it or making it funny; she's just a straight up liar. I'm done calling it anything other than what it is.

Tammy · Sun May 14, 2017 9:55 am

The keyser wagon was Frogger's baby not mine. I thought it was fine and a good wagon, but I did not push it through.

Also, I don't care if anyone defends Titus. I haven't had a problem when anyone has defended Titus this game. I thought Keyser in particular was going about it in a weird way. I thought he was scum white knighting her and it made me doubt my scum read on Titus. Several people have defended Titus this game and I've listened to what they said.

Tammy · Sun May 14, 2017 10:39 am

Imagine a world where nacho is town.

Who's the scum team?

Tammy · Mon May 15, 2017 5:04 am

Hi everybody this is your daily reminder that if Nacho were scum this game, I'd have reservations on him. I don't, he's town, you're welcome.

Tammy · Mon May 15, 2017 2:35 pm

I need to be realistic about my time constraints this week

V/la until Thursday.

Tammy · Mon May 15, 2017 3:38 pm

To whoever asked

I think it's a good chance implosion jailed nacho because he was sheeping nacho all day. He was very focused on what nacho was doing and had decided to ride his coat tails. If he was going for protective, I think he'd want to ensure nacho was still alive.

Tammy · Tue May 16, 2017 1:09 pm

Titus - I'm not talking down to you, I am open to listening to any other read you have. I know that Nacho will be here and produce content when he has a chance, and maybe then you will see that he is definitely town, but this is a read that I am very confident in.

Just as a thought experiment, please consider that Nacho is town. Who are your scum reads if Nacho is town?

Tammy · Wed May 17, 2017 2:39 am

It's somewhat amusing that so many pages are being wasted discrediting nachos efforts and reads, and by amusing its obnoxious and doing literally nothing to advance the game state at all, which looks to me to be the point. It's nothing but a distraction. He's town, that's all. If you're town, you're wasting your time.

It's also somewhat amusing that it seems every game when I tell the people the game what alignment nacho is, that I get told I'm wrong by people who don't even know what makes nacho town or scum.

I can beat this drum all day long, the read is not going to change.

Tammy · Wed May 17, 2017 2:46 am

Why does titus read town to you desperado?

Tammy · Wed May 17, 2017 9:38 am

^^^

That's the best vote!

Tammy · Wed May 17, 2017 9:46 am

In post 3453, Titus wrote:Great, then we can agree to disagree. This type of post tells me you're not open to a dialogue. I agree discussing my Nacho read is a waste of time as no one will follow but brow beating me seems to be all anyone is interested in.

As I've you before, I'm perfectly happy to discuss any other read with you. You haven't listened to my reasons on Nacho and you never will. You will never change my mind on this read, but I'm happy to talk about absolutely anyone else.

Tammy · Wed May 17, 2017 9:54 am

I feel like I've been talking about my concerns on Kelvin since yesterday. I'll vote when I'm sure Nacho's done catching up and giving his thoughts. I remember yesterday, don't want a repeat.

Tammy · Wed May 17, 2017 10:02 am

Leonshade/prism/rb - You had him as a town read, right? Why? (I know part of it is that you guys saw eye to eye on the nacho/implosion interaction, but if you could please remove that part of the read, that would help.)

Tammy · Wed May 17, 2017 10:05 am

Like my two scum reads I feel very good about are leon/kelvin. My third is still up for grabs.

Not a big fan of desperado's play, but his slot has produced so much division that I'm not sure and have been waiting waiting waiting for him to do something readable.

I don't like that he seemed to keep open the possibility of a nacho scum read with that coasting because people know him bullshit that I don't think he believes.

Tammy · Wed May 17, 2017 11:15 am

The biggest point on kelvin is just that he doesn't seem to have any drive to actually solve the game.

Tammy · Thu May 18, 2017 7:23 am

In post 3523, Desperado wrote:actually

unvote
vote: infinity

?

Tammy · Thu May 18, 2017 7:40 am

In post 3528, Ser Arthur Dayne wrote:
In post 3499, Tammy wrote:The biggest point on kelvin is just that he doesn't seem to have any drive to actually solve the game.
I actually feel the exact opposite. Is this a read we're not gonna jive on Tammy.

Maybe! I'll try to explain what i mean later. Right now I'm eating lunch and trying to catch up on games real quick.

Tammy · Fri May 19, 2017 12:22 pm

In post 3583, Infinity 324 wrote:
In post 3576, Nachomamma8 wrote:but it's not something that takes her completely out of POE, just out of the "comfortable lynching now" pool - very much with Tammy in that I'd like to powerlynch Kelvin and Leonshade and then get NK'ed and not bother figuring out the game from there but that's unfortunately not the approach I'll be able to allow myself to take

In post 3581, Nachomamma8 wrote:still more interested in reading kelvin today
If you have time, skim one of the town games and the scum game he linked. There's a huge difference imo

About titus, she was tunneling on me the whole game in rogue one and never gave in until I got NK'ed. So idk why you say she wouldn't dig in wrt her scumread on you.

My thing with Titus is I feel like she's crossed a few lines this game that she'd know she was crossing as scum while as town she might just be acting out and lashing out.

Tammy · Fri May 19, 2017 2:38 pm

In post 3603, Titus wrote:
In post 3601, Nachomamma8 wrote:legitimately your biggest flaw as a player
Nah, my biggest flaw was not realizing when the day needed to end and tried to force my number 1 lynch. I am not doing that.

I think he was referring to Arthur there

Tammy · Fri May 19, 2017 2:38 pm

Also woah wait when did we get this?

Tammy · Fri May 19, 2017 2:48 pm

I want to put my vote on desperado right now just because of that sales pitch!

I wish we had better emoticons to express just how much I love it.

Tammy · Sun May 21, 2017 4:59 am

This is a post this is a post this is a postie postie post.

I don't need to be proddeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed.

I know I'm a little far away. Not a whole lot to say while waiting for the people I suspect to post something that makes me second guess and let nacho catch up so he can finishing sheeping desperado

Tammy · Sun May 21, 2017 6:59 am

My favorite wagon is probably kelvin.

Tammy · Wed May 24, 2017 9:38 am

I hate this town so very very much.

~ Love is better! ~

Tammy · Wed May 24, 2017 9:43 am

Also I wish came didn't replace into a slot I was already leaning scum on. I can't read damn worth a damn and have literally scum read her in every game I've followed she's been in, so if I'm wrong on that slot I will never be able to figure it out.

Tammy · Wed May 24, 2017 9:44 am

You hammered on his day off, congratulations!

Did you give him time to claim?

Stop blooming other people for doing someone completely anti fucking town. That's you.

Tammy · Thu May 25, 2017 3:45 am

In post 3882, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:Idk I need to reread our interaction again but it feels like Nacho used AtE about replacing out and Laundry maf popped into my head.

It's literally an off the cuff theory that is probably a lot more important thing I need to settle compared to how much I put it off

People really need to learn what ate is, and considering I was the one he ate'd at in laundry mafia and I'm not going oh he's ate'ing, no it's nothing similar.

You quick hammered a town read of his without letting him come in and finish catching up and without a claim and then you were a jerk to him in response when he called you out.

I explicitly said yesterday I was not voting because I did not want a lynch before Nacho had a chance to catch up. What happens? And you reamed Titus for doing what you just did the next day.

And this game is nothing like Laundry mafia, this game he's been crapped on by players here. First RB tries to halt him doing anything early game by throwing the shit at him he did, Titus decides to call his efforts in this game useless when him giving his reads were anything but, and now you, a friend, deflect to him when he calls you out because he's frustrated at your anti-town behavior.

If you can't see why he, on very limited time, might be ready to throw in the towel this game, then I don't know what to tell you.

Tammy · Thu May 25, 2017 3:47 am

In post 3857, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 3798, Infinity 324 wrote:
In post 3787, Infinity 324 wrote:Nacho talk about titus?
My main reason for thinking that Titus is town is because early on, she felt like her push on me was driving a wedge between her and Tammy and still she kept pushing. I contrasted this with her treatment of Nero in Rogue One; you correctly noted that she wasn't having fun in the game before because "no one was listening to her" but that was much different than her not having fun with the game because of Nero's treatment of her - no one listening to her is a problem that she has in general and is not caused by any one person or any one action and letting go of cases or pushes she feels are strong just so people would listen to her doesn't solve the underlying problem at all. This reason for thinking she's town is a very nebulous one, and not one that I have a whole lot of confidence in; I felt more strongly about it before you provided the Rogue One counterexample, but I don't feel great about it in general. I feel much better about lynching Camn and Leonshade.

And for people thinking he's not doing enough, this here has no reason to come from him as scum. Him as scum could just tunnel on Titus, push that lynch through, but here he's actually trying to read her.

Tammy · Thu May 25, 2017 3:47 am

In post 3930, Infinity 324 wrote:
In post 3881, Ser Arthur Dayne wrote:Real talk

I really feel underwhelmed by nacho.

I super get the working long hour feels and stuff, but that's not really what's making me feel weird.

I feel like there's no drive to solve the game from him that I usually get the vibe of. When he's here it feels like charade that's intended to pass off as town. But that's not the town nacho I know and love who becomes town by virtue of solid scumhunting and pushes.

Nacho can you please talk to me about these concerns and tell me I'm crazy.
Guys it's pretty simple. Tammy is obvious town. Tammy knows how to read nacho and has no paranoia there. YOU SHEEP THE READ

Thank you!

Tammy · Thu May 25, 2017 3:51 am

Camn - Why is leon town and why am I town?

Tammy · Thu May 25, 2017 4:06 am

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME???

Tammy · Thu May 25, 2017 4:07 am

even if he's scum I hate you all.

Tammy · Thu May 25, 2017 4:08 am

I like you so much better when you play like you did as Arya Arthur. Not so much when you play like this and Gay mafia.

Tammy · Thu May 25, 2017 4:09 am

OH SHIT GAME HASN'T BEEN OPEN FOR TWO DAYS YET

LET'S QUICK LYNCH

YOU''RE ALL LIKE RABID FUCKING DOGS.

NO WONDER I HATE PLAYNG AT THIS FUCKING SITE THESE DAYS.

Tammy · Thu May 25, 2017 4:14 am

Hate is a strong word, but I'm very frustrated.

Tammy · Thu May 25, 2017 4:25 am

Leon is probably scum, hopefully scum, but I really wanted Camn to post more so that I could try to get a read on that slot. I can't read her worth a damn, but pretty sure Nacho can.

Tammy · Thu May 25, 2017 4:29 am

In post 3951, Titus wrote:P.s. if no protective role, sad scum.
Lynch nacho/camn

Third might be gin/sad but I don't want to believe it.

We should have gotten Leon's claim.

Maybe he can out his results before lock

Why do you think he has results?

Tammy · Thu May 25, 2017 4:34 am

If leon isn't scum, then IDK

Tammy · Sat May 27, 2017 11:41 am

That means titus is pretty much confirmed scum.

Pretty sure the plan is lynch Camn and Titus in whatever order and that should do it, maybe Gin if one of them is town?

Tammy · Sat May 27, 2017 11:46 am

What does nacho never getting lynched have to do with Fire's claim?

Tammy · Sat May 27, 2017 11:57 am

Fire there's almost no way the scum team is anything but Camn and Titus.

Tammy · Sat May 27, 2017 12:01 pm

In post 4018, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:
In post 4016, Tammy wrote:Fire there's almost no way the scum team is anything but Camn and Titus.
I was actually thinking Titus, Fire, Infinity while it was night.

I like Camn's previous slot, Hiraki, he made a post on rb that I liked and I can dig it, also I'll give link and discuss.

How does Leon fit in there though?

Tammy · Sat May 27, 2017 12:26 pm

Not sure if I believe the claim though, but still think it's Camn/Titus

Tammy · Sat May 27, 2017 12:29 pm

DUH he'd have also been voting Leon yesterday if he had a guilty.

And why wouldn't they keep roleblocking him?

Tammy · Sat May 27, 2017 12:31 pm

Let's say you're an actual loyal tracker, you think they role blocked you days one and two and just didn't last night?

Tammy · Sat May 27, 2017 12:34 pm

Good point!

@Nacho

Tammy · Sat May 27, 2017 12:46 pm

In post 4061, Titus wrote:
In post 4013, Tammy wrote:What does nacho never getting lynched have to do with Fire's claim?
I am the only one who SRs Nacho. So with me discredited the game has been over since D1 anyway. Might as well just lynch me.

That still doesn't answer what fire bringer's claim has to do with it.

Tammy · Sat May 27, 2017 12:48 pm

In post 3951, Titus wrote:P.s. if no protective role, sad scum.
Lynch nacho/camn

Third might be gin/sad but I don't want to believe it.

We should have gotten Leon's claim.

Maybe he can out his results before lock

Also think this looks like a slip.

Tammy · Sat May 27, 2017 12:51 pm

ANYWAY

I'm down with lynching Titus and Camn in whatever order.

Tammy · Sat May 27, 2017 12:54 pm

I always like hugs

Tammy · Sat May 27, 2017 1:00 pm

In post 4094, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 4080, Tammy wrote:ANYWAY

I'm down with lynching Titus and Camn in whatever order.
Come vote camn with me!

Might do that!

Tammy · Sat May 27, 2017 1:02 pm

In post 4095, Ser Arthur Dayne wrote:Seriously though I think there's a none zero chance that you're wrong about nacho this game and it's making me very paranoid how he's lining up lynches right now with basically no real scumhunting to back his push. It just looks like it's being materialized.

I am not wrong about Nacho this game. You don't have anything to worry about it that department!

Do you have any concerns on Infinity?

Tammy · Sat May 27, 2017 1:02 pm

In post 4090, Firebringer wrote:Now nacho talks to infinity as welll.

I am so jealous, I want nacho all to my self.
Tammy how do you deal with sharing him?

I don't!

Tammy · Sat May 27, 2017 1:04 pm

In post 3854, Aristophanes wrote:So, SAD is my 2nd strongest townread after Tammy. Like, she's all but confirmed town IMO.

I was wondering why he had me confirmed town, makes sense now!

Tammy · Sat May 27, 2017 1:06 pm

In post 4109, Ser Arthur Dayne wrote:Wait if BP bodyguard bodyguards someone successfully they don't die either because of their BP right?

Yep.

Tammy · Sat May 27, 2017 1:08 pm

In post 4111, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:
In post 4101, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:
In post 4100, Tammy wrote:I am not wrong about Nacho this game. You don't have anything to worry about it that department!
How
Tammy

Look at his day one play. That day one never comes from scum nacho. Look at the way he's been trying to read Titus, going back and forth, that is town Nacho. His interaction with me is town nacho.

Tammy · Sat May 27, 2017 1:10 pm

In post 4115, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:I mean his day play right now is shit

He's working 17 hour days right now. Considering he hasn't been sleeping, the fact that he was here and posting is a miracle.

Tammy · Sat May 27, 2017 1:13 pm

In post 4117, Ser Arthur Dayne wrote:
In post 4114, Tammy wrote:
In post 4111, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:
In post 4101, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:
In post 4100, Tammy wrote:I am not wrong about Nacho this game. You don't have anything to worry about it that department!
How
Tammy
Look at his day one play. That day one never comes from scum nacho. Look at the way he's been trying to read Titus, going back and forth, that is town Nacho. His interaction with me is town nacho.
I think after day 1 he has had a very under the radar game which is the feel I get from scum-nacho.

Actually if you weren't townreading him he'd be a straight up scumread but I'm trying to work with you b/c I know you can read him better than me.

Yeah, some of that is due to work schedule plus us playing at westeros. I think you'd be seeing a more involved Nacho except for two lynches have literally happened on the only days off he had that week.

You're thinking of Laundry Mafia where he did play an under the radar game, but that's not his total scum meta.

Tammy · Sat May 27, 2017 1:15 pm

In post 4125, Ser Arthur Dayne wrote:
In post 4118, Tammy wrote:
In post 4115, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:I mean his day play right now is shit
He's working 17 hour days right now. Considering he hasn't been sleeping, the fact that he was here and posting is a miracle.
Yes

I understand that

but how does he has such strong reads then :S

Everybody else is more town to him?

Tammy · Sat May 27, 2017 1:17 pm

Why do you suspect infinity, Gin?

Tammy · Sat May 27, 2017 1:21 pm

I'm tempted to just go with it :/

Tammy · Sat May 27, 2017 1:32 pm

Fire bringer you want to keep holding on to that tracker claim?

Tammy · Sat May 27, 2017 1:32 pm

Could be a scum watcher?

Tammy · Sat May 27, 2017 1:35 pm

or just fake claim

Tammy · Sat May 27, 2017 1:35 pm

camn fucked up.

Tammy · Sat May 27, 2017 1:36 pm

aristo died last night, why wouldn't she see who visited him?

Tammy · Sat May 27, 2017 1:38 pm

VOTE: camn

Tammy · Sat May 27, 2017 1:44 pm

Yeah and her not blinking about the tracker too is all kinds of wrong to come from camn town.

In addition to their just not being a watcher here.

Or a tracker.