Newbie 1815: Prisons [Endgame]

[Alisae]

VOTE COUNT 2 . 35 Not Voting ----- 6 ( Everyone ) With 6 alive, it takes 4 to Lynch Deadline is in (expired on 2017-09-18 07:27:43)

FOS COUNT 2 . 35 osuka ------- 2 ( Aphix, Skitter30 ) Archwing ---- 1 ( Skitter30 ) randomidget - 1 ( Skitter30 ) Not FoS'ing - 4 ( BlackVoid, osuka, randomiget, Archwing ) With 6 alive, it takes 4 to Lynch Deadline is in (expired on 2017-09-18 07:27:43)

[Archwing]

Sweet! Hi Archwing!!!

Are you scum?

@BV: Besides for the MWAP thing, Osuka's like null for me. Nothing he's said or done seemed particularly AI. I'm going to reread him now I think.

You're very forward, aren't you? Lol.

Thanks for the welcome. Reading over the game now... gotta run out for an hour or two ish, will come back, make a post tonight or early tomorrow.

FYI, newbie here. This will be my second game.

[aphix]

Archeig please actually read and follow up?


RM you said you were reading and going to post about it. Now you act like you aren't planning on reading?

[osuka]

lol hi archwing

[osuka]

also i found some time to post so wall incoming

[osuka]

Osuka:

155 - I don't like this response to MadTatters. Tatters basically said "I'd genuinely like to understand your reasoning for your vote" and Osuka's response amounted to "i don't have to offer my reasoning behind every vote or action." It could partly just be a theory disagreement but giving reasons and allowing your target to respond can help you get a better read. It's rather premature to have already decided who he wanted to lynch on page seven.
172 - I'm not sure what was scummy about the post of MWAP's that you quoted. Mind elaborating?
174 - What of MadTatters' 159 were you townreading? I don't think her tone comes off that much more different than what it was previously. I actually agree with Paul that the turnaround after both Paul and JaeReed townread MadTatters feel like Osuka realized that this lynch wasn't going through and changed course for MWAP instead.
177 - I like this back off though and subsequent pressure vote (again) in 181.
183 - The "if anything I'm the one who should be wary" pings me. If Osuka genuinely thought JaeReed was buddying him, he'd say so. If not, I expect he'd say that they were both town that were townblocking. What I didn't like about the phrasing here is that it seemed like he wanted Yakko to continue to have the impression that JaeReed could be buddying Osuka but not actually want to investigate the matter himself (Yakko already claimed BP so this isn't a question to help him read Yakko). I'm not sure what to make of the fact that JaeReed actually agreed with what Osuka said here.
191 - "He explained himself well after I asked if it was a threat?" Do you mean his 160? How does that alleviate your suspicion of him? If you were talking about 159, then same question.
225 - I liked the "too nice" characterization of JaeReed since I got some of those vibes myself and wondered if he was scum for it although it seems to have just been an IC thing.
229 - Conflicted on this one but want to make a note of it. How does most of his content strike you? Why no follow up D2 on this?
271 - I think the argument that "MWAP is scum" and "Aphix knows MWAP will flip town" are a bit contradictory. I'm not really sure whether Osuka thinks MWAP will flip town or scum here. On the one hand, he's pushing the lynch through with statements like "if you think it is not (alignment indicative), I have two (bridges to sell you)" while on the other, there's stuff like "he's either gamethrowing town or gamethrowing scum, and in either case i'm fine with getting him lynched" which feels like a policy-esque vote.
283 - The frustration feels townish here. I see what skitter is saying but I don't find it to be as conclusive as she does.

155 - that's not what the post amounted to. nice misrep though
172 - rtft
174 - 1598 sounded genuine iirc. that was a while ago though so since I'm kinda blasting through those i haven't given it much thought. if you still want me to talk about it just let me know
177 - hurrrr
183 - I was wary of jae buddying me, yes, but not paranoid to the point where i felt like i should say it. I don't see a problem with this post
191 - probably? I honestly don't remember. I definitely liked his reaction to something though so i'll go with a yes here
229 - my activity has been shitty because school and real life caught up to me recently so i haven't been making many pushes (as you can prob tell). if you mean early day 2 though, I just kinda forgot about him since he posts so little and there were other players i thought i could push to move the game forward more (instead of just having a wagon on a lurker who I read nullscum and really isn't gonna give that much information)
271 - it was halfway a policy lynch since the player was toxic and had to go. I honestly wasn't really sure what the flip was going to be, but the way aphix played that pinged me hard so I poked at him. reaction test

Osuka:

328 - Can you elaborate on your read on Paul, your read on Aphix, and your thoughts on skitter's wall. It's all too vague for me to understand.
330 - Why was Pepper probably town here? None of these reads make sense to me. For instance the aphix read "I think you're town but I'm suspicious of you for no reason other than gut, unless you count the fact that icibalus was super weird - though i'm willing to let that go since you're townier than he was." Nothing here explains what you are townreading and what you find scummy.
370 - I don't agree with Osuka's take on Aphix here. I think the point that Aphix only pushed Paul after Skitter did was a good one. But I don't see what's so "gross" or "super-fabricated" about the first post he quoted (345), nor how 350 is necessarily scum-motivated. I get the vibe that Osuka was trying to align himself with Paul and against Aphix.
288 - Two problems here. Voting just to see "how full of shit" the conf-town is, is strange. Tatters gaining townpoints for the display of "coherence" in 380 blows my mind because it's fairly rare to see a post

that

incoherent. She didn't even agree with your reasoning for pushing Aphix, she just omgus'd Aphix for entering the game by pushing her and said that you and Aphix were her scumreads but you dropped off (why?), then wrote a jumble of words about pairing her two biggest scumreads which I still don't understand. Perhaps you can break down her post and explain what she meant?
412 - I actually like the defense of Paul here and the Aphix vote because he doesn't want a wagon on his townread to pick up.
440 - Can you explain why "doing fuck all to thwart his wagon" is scummy? It's not beneficial for either alignment but if I stretch, I can maybe see town not trying to talk their way out of a lynch thinking it'll help remove a distraction and catch scum in future days. But scum have even more motivation to survive.

328 - paul is a weird read. As in he's hard to read
skitter's wall was half good, half trash
aphix pinged me at the time but got progressively townier after some point so i let him be
330 - reads were shit. I hate replying to prompts like these because there's a certain finesse to posts like that, that just get thrown out the window when you have to be blunt like this
can we stop asking me obvious things? it gets annoying quick
370 - aphix made a shit push on paul that made him look real scummy
388 - rtft
440 - maybe not scummy but certainly anti-town. bad choice of words? I honestly just wanted to get the slot lynched because at the time i thought it was scum

Osuka:

509 - How has Aphix done an "ass job defending himself?" As I listed out in my previous post, he has done a lot of genuine scumhunting and taken positions that don't make much sense for scum to take (like the JaeReed scumread for "whiteknighting"). Suggesting he's not scumhunting anymore or trying to lynch people is veering into blatantly false territory when he's been pushing Paul as well as questioning multiple people. This is a really bad post that feels like Osuka is stretching to justify a scumread on the mislynch of the day.
520 - I have no idea how Aphix last post changed his mind here when Aphix had been making similar posts all day. This feels a lot like Osuka's back-off of Tatters on D1 where he meets resistance and changes direction. Skitter throwing out JaeReed as a possible lynch seems to have been the trigger here and he says he's okay with it. But the last time he expressed any suspicion of JaeReed at all was in 414 where he was a fourth choice behind Aphix, DP, and Ciara. I think he was too quick to jump on the JaeReed wagon without trying to pivot to DP whom skitter had also expressed suspicion of.
544 - I like that he included DP in his willing to lynch list. But the list pretty much contains everyone except his townread Paul and his recent townread Aphix.
572 - How did Aphix jump right back into your lynchpool? I also find it odd in hindsight that Osuka suggests a Ciara lynch but not a Pepper lynch even though they were both listed as equally scummy in his readslist. I get the vibe that he's buddying Paul and is okay lynching pretty much anyone else and while he doesn't really townread Pepper, he also doesn't try to sway the lynch towards Pepper.
688, 689 - I don't understand the "there's one hour to the deadline and her laywer goes for the insanity defense, we're all fucked." It doesn't say anything about the likelihood of Tatters being scum (he actually says she's nulltown) but doesn't want to try to lynch her because she might wiggle her way out by acting like she's insane?
691 - JaeReed being a scumread for the Tatters push is somewhat plausible since I got weird vibes from it as well.
693 - In hindsight, I don't like this post. He lays out a bunch of reasons why Pepper is suspect, says he'd rather not lynch the slot which prevents momentum from turning Pepper's way but leaves an out to hammer if it's unavoidable. If a slot is low content and hard to read, that actually makes it a

good

deadline lynch and removes a question mark slot.
694 - I remember not liking this read on me when I first read it. There's a bit too much emphasis on Ciara but I don't really understand what it was about Ciara that Osuka was scumreading. She seemed to be in the lynchpool through process of elimination, and then I came in and made towny posts and now I'm null?
730 - Another post I dislike where he advocates lynching me over DP. BV is acting pretty blatantly town but because I've had a scumpartner do that, I'm down to lynch him? That's really terrible reasoning. It felt like he was banking on a JaeReed mislynch while having DP as a peripheral suspect that he wasn't intending to bus. But when JaeReed claimed, he had to scramble to get another lynch so he tries to brush his DP suspicion aside because "hard read/low content" and lynch me despite being "blatantly town" because Ciara was in his POE pool. This is actually a really incriminating post because DP and Ciara were both in his POE pool before. I came in and according to him played in a towny way. So, that means he should be more willing to lynch DP but he instead tries to minimize my town play and continue to try to lynch me while pushing aside his DP read. Skitter is right in 731 that DP has been in Osuka's scumpool for ages but never really pushed him but that people aren't really pushing anyone so it's hard to tell. I'll add that when push came to shove and the JaeReed mislynch was no longer on the table, Osuka didn't fall back on his scumpool and lynch DP. Instead, he tried to justify not lynching DP with very bad reasoning (low content, hard to read).
747 - This does feel like he resigned himself to a Pepper lynch after three of us voted there. Not sure how alignment-indicative this is though.
748 - His tone changes a bit after voting where he questions the townread on DP whereas before he was arguing against it. I think the premise behind the question is flawed here. Obviously town-DP would be resistant to a Paul lynch (much like Osuka himself) if he was genuinely townreading Paul and didn't want to lynch him. This post reads like now he's committed to bussing DP, he changed course and started being in favor of DP lynch.
844 - I continue to dislike Osuka's read on me. "Obvtown but gets meanie points through POE" does not make any sense whatsoever. The entire point of using POE is because you have a couple of obvtown reads and you are trying to sort the rest. Paul getting meanie points for not interacting with DP also doesn't make sense since Osuka said himself that DP barely interacted with anyone else. What "POE" is he talking about here?

509 - you contradict yourself here. in 859 you imply that you agree he did "nothing to thwart his wagon", which is basically what I'm saying here - and what i had been saying for a while. He basically, at that point, was barely responding to prompts and just saying the same things in response to whatever we asked him. it was pretty shit
this is a shit push on me and you should be ashamed
520 - his last post sounded genuine and i clearly remember that just by glancing at it. jumped out at me as super towny
572 - at that point we were getting p close to deadline and even though i townread aphix, at that point i'm not ready to trust him 100% yet. He's a compromise lynch though and i think i make that clear somewhere else if not on this post
689 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joke
you might wanna get yourself checked out if you can't tell
693 - that's a good way to look at it that i genuinely just never thought about. i can give you that
694 - yes.
730 - ciara was super scummy and i was thinking of prepping a wall to potentially get a train going on her before you replaced in and started obvtowning. The reason i don't wanna clear you is because the slot has track history (ciara) and because i've seen scum act pretty obvtown in the past
844 - omgus much? maybe i'm misusing my words in that post but even thought you're acting towny and shit, the same applies to you, paul and rm (i.e., the slots never really interacted with dp and none of you are confirmed)

[osuka]

viewtopic.php?p=9589999#p9589999
viewtopic.php?p=9590000#p9590000

holy shit cheCK EM

[Archwing]

Hi, checking in. About half way through (had rl get in way) I will have my reads in this afternoon, im just leaving for work now.

Hi osuka lmao.

[osuka]

Hi, checking in. About half way through (had rl get in way) I will have my reads in this afternoon, im just leaving for work now.

Hi osuka lmao.

checking in?

did you check my two quads???

[Randomnamechange]

Well, you replaced into a thirty page game so I'd expect you wanted to read it? I do have a question though - how did you go from MadTatters is null to "Tatters was so scummy, why weren't they lynched yet" in a span of three minutes?

@Paul - good luck with school. Hope to see you around.

I'll post my catchup which is almost done and then I'll get to skitter's latest post. I do need to read the Paul scumgame more closely as well as a few of Osuka's games before I feel confident in my reads though.

their posting on page 6(?) was horrific. they hadnt done much before that

@RM:

What do you think about Osuka and Paul on pages 11-12 (the MWAP lynch)?

on it

Archeig please actually read and follow up?


RM you said you were reading and going to post about it. Now you act like you aren't planning on reading?

ive read about 20 pages so far. i find it easier for people to ask me specific things then i go back and case that.

[Randomnamechange]

ok i agree that the mwap lynch was deserved. pushing it from early is probably town imo (osuka and paul). scum probs come from people pushing it for scum after(e.g. DP) knowing it is a safe push they wont get flak for, or people hard defending the slot (e.g. aphix). aphix's posting makes a lot of sense as a chainsaw imo.

[aphix]

One, I don't think you know what chainsaw defense is .... two, if you've played in the awful games I've had and with all the crap that's happened in them, you tend to get an eye for picking out shitty players that are just trying to ruin the game and you can look past that at actually alignment indicative behaviors. There is no way pushing MWAP as scum at any point earns someone town points.

[aphix]

ive read about 20 pages so far. i find it easier for people to ask me specific things then i go back and case that.

Cool, that can easiely come after you've read the game and provided some actually content. Otherwise your responses get to be manipulated and at least tainted with other peoples opinions. And becomes not as helpful.

[Randomnamechange]

One, I don't think you know what chainsaw defense is .... two, if you've played in the awful games I've had and with all the crap that's happened in them, you tend to get an eye for picking out shitty players that are just trying to ruin the game and you can look past that at actually alignment indicative behaviors. There is no way pushing MWAP as scum at any point earns someone town points.

i meant white knight not chainsaw

[aphix]

Do you think I was trying to gain MWAPs support by defending him, what does a scum player get for defending them? Could you explain a little more of what my motivation is there?

[Archwing]

Checking in. Just getting into d2 more or less... been busy.

d1: wtf was with mwap. jesus. going in, i have a pre-existing bias, knowing that jae and dp are gone, town and scum (in that order). As such, I was trying to get something out of dp's play here. haven't seen too much to tell.

I replaced NTRP, who has a much more aggressive play style than I think I do. I will try to create some content here soon, I promise I will be more active within 12-24 hours. I apologize again for taking so long as a replacement... I know you want to hear my opinion.

I get a weird feeling from aphix.. once I'm done reading I will go back for an ISO to justify my thoughts.

414 osuka gets DP right. Makes me think Osuka town. I've seen scumsuka... I don't think this is it. although this is only 2nd game ever.
433 dr/aphix s/s?
457 was awful.

quick notes. more later

[aphix]

Archwing, you want to actually post any actually reasoning instead of just trying to fling shit?

Also, there is a good chance unless my scum partner is a universal town read ... he's going to be lower on my reads list most the time ... You say he got DP right, but DP was scum in both those lists .... If fact his list was the same regardless of rather he thought I was scum or not .... That seems really weird considering he wasn't interested in pushing any of those three. But you say he gets town points for putting a scum player in 3 out of 5 players when he doesn't consider himself, me or Skitters? And it's the same three people if he isn't considering himself or skitters. How is that town at all?

[skitter30]

I'm townleaning RM for 909 and 910 but I don't know why, especially since I disagree with like all the reads.

@RM: What do you think about Paul at the beginning of day2, like where I replaced in? What about Paul and Osuka after Jae claimed tracker (713) through the end of day2?

[skitter30]

Oh, also, would you ever consider lynching BV today?

Archwing, I'd like it if you can answer those questions as well.

[BlackVoid]

@Osuka, here are the biggest questions I have from your responses:

1. I don't understand your stance on pressuring lurkers. You pressured MWAP because he wasn't posting content in what you call a "bully wagon" (225) which I'm taking to mean that you are pressuring him into posting content. But you say you didn't pressure DP early D2 because "

having a wagon on a lurker who I read nullscum and really isn't gonna give that much information

." That feels contradictory. If you thought bullying MWAP into posting content would work, you can certainly pressure DP as well to see how he reacts to the wagon. What's the difference?

2. I wouldn't mind talking about 159 more. Can you elaborate on what sounded genuine?

3. Regarding Aphix, I didn't say that Aphix did nothing to thwart the wagon. You did. My question is that even if you genuinely believe that he did nothing to thwart the wagon, why would it be scummy? I thought Aphix spent a lot of time scumhunting and pushing people who it didn't make sense for scum to push in that position (like JaeReed who was townreading him).

4. Why was Ciara scummy? You've actually said

nothing

about Ciara other than agree with her that Icibalus' slot was scum in 225, and put her in a POE pool in 414. You also later suggested "compromise-lynching" Ciara which doesn't feel you had a particularly strong scumread. But after I replaced in, you place a lot of emphasis on the fact that Ciara's scummy posting cancels out my town posting which is weird.

5. Ciara and Pepper actually had a similar amount of content. Both players posted very little. I don't understand why Ciara was an okay lynch but Pepper wasn't just because he was low-content. I don't know what to make of you saying you genuinely didn't consider that a low content slot would be a good deadline lynch but I have a hard time buying it considering you are fine "compromise" lynching Ciara in 572. These reasons only seem to apply to DP. Ciara and DP were also on the same read level in your 414 so I don't get why you're okay lynching Ciara but were reluctant to lynch Pepper.

[skitter30]

Oh hey. I'm on too lol. I'm going through DP's interactions now, going to go through the you/osuka after if I don't get too tired tonight.

[osuka]

there's no way on the planet these misreps aren't deliberate

i'll reply tomorrow because i need to wake up early (and it's late right now), but i feel like i have to say, you've done a great job on lightly twisting my posts. fucking disgusting

[osuka]

like literally half of what you ask me in 919 i have either addressed in my wall reply or made obvious elsewhere (and you've made it pretty clear to everyone that you read the whole game pretty thoroughly), and i'm sure you know that

[osuka]

actually scratch that. all of what you ask me has already been answered

the only thing i will note is that you wrongly assume that DP and ciara are put at the same level in 414. that post is not a readslist (and, hopefully, very obviously so)

[osuka]

nice work trying to throw shit at me because of that post though. parts of your push have a nuance to them that is almost admirable