Mini 1942 - Switchboard 2 [Game Over]

[Aubrey]

Bark.VOTE: Nosferatu ugly vampire.

[Aubrey]

Actually VOTE: Chick you can find that question out for yourself. Trying to look helpful?

[Aubrey]

UNVOTE: Chick

[Aubrey]

I'm trying to decide if I like the prospect of completely giving away our toggling levels. Repeating concerns, scum could kill off higher priority numbers if they themselves have a member with a high priority. If they are more mid to late priorities, I doubt they'll waste their time. They'd need a player with a level 3 - 1 before considering to kill off all higher priority roles in order to gain the upper hand in toggling.

Would it be better to instead come up with a rating system if we think knowing the toggling numbers is worthwhile? like high. mid. low.

1-4 high
58 mid
9 - 13 low

[Aubrey]

I mean I doubt scum would have like number 1 priority, but the priorities were somewhat randomized as the mod said. I'm not ruling anything out. If we are to state our priorities, something tells me we should categorize them instead of giving the number outright just in case they do have a 2 - 4 level priority member.

Also, having a high priority number shouldn't save you from the noose either. Scummy behavior is scummy regardless of priority.

--

Pre-edit: It was semi-serious.

[Aubrey]

Would it be better to instead come up with a rating system if we think knowing the toggling numbers is worthwhile? like high. mid. low.

1-4 high
58 mid
9 - 13 low

That seems like it would give scum the advantage of knowing who they need to get out of the way, but without giving the analyst the ability to know exactly who is doing what by being able to identify priority numbers as particular players. Like... defeating the point of the strategy.

Frankly I don't see the analyst to be all that useful in this setup unless a certain situation unfolds. I'd be more worried about scum having a better grasp at the toggling than town, especially with that role cop around. We can always claim indefinitely later down the line.

[Aubrey]

If I read that correctly, you want the power roles to full claim now. You're basically line'n them up to be pigs for slaughter.

[Aubrey]

In case we have a power role that is toggled off, I think we should come up with a plan to try and turn them on for night one. Like 1 toggles 13 on and 13 toggles 1 on. 2 toggles 12 on and 12 toggles 2 on. Etc. that does mean 7 won't be toggeled, but someone can correct that N2. That is a 4/13 chance we toggle on our PR's. On the Neg. side we also will potentially be turning on mafia PR's. Thoughts?

[Aubrey]

I'm not for the claiming....I just said that's line'n them up to be slaughtered.

[Aubrey]

okay, lets just toggle randomly and hope our power roles are mostly on and we're good at targeting.

[Aubrey]

If we work together as a town, it's not so random and blind.

Attempting to ensure our PR's are active and useful right out the gate won't be that easy by your logic. It will in fact be semi random.

[Aubrey]

1 - 13
2 - 12

3

-

11

4

-

10

5

-

9

6 - 8
7

I randomly did this. Having a visual representation in front of me does kinda illustrate how this might be a negative plan. scum is absolutely turned on, and then they get to control 3 other toggles based on their numbers, so that is 6 toggles their favor. It sounded better in my head, so yeah. I had a stupid moment. Ignore my recent posts.

[Aubrey]

Never mind I feel like an idiot.

Join the club

[Aubrey]

Aubrey, your concern with Rat's strategy is giving scum targets based on priority numbers, how would your alternative of those with a high priority still having to say so have alleviated that? It still gives the scum a group to target of players guaranteed to have high numbers. As Keychain says it severely dilutes the usefulness of the Analyst while still giving the scum a good amount of knowledge, it tips the scales heavily in their favour.

Either choice will tip the scale to scums favor if their goal is to eliminate high priority players. My alternative mainly attempts to limit scums accuracy at the risk of somewhat diluting the analysts info early on if that is in fact their goal. That doesn't mean we can't have a mass levels claim at a later opportune moment. Further more, if the analyst sees an odd toggle early on, they then have a small group of players to speculate from, and they can put their scum hunting hats on from there. It's not like he/she will be rendered mute. If anything my alternative is the closest bridge between those who do not want to reveal their priority levels outright and those who do.

If we think scum will be targeting high priority players then my plan is the safer plan. If not, then the former is better.

[Aubrey]

I'm not overly against revealing our priority numbers indefinitely. My alternative does have it's major issues.

1 - 4 high
5 - 8 mid
9 - 13 low

Again, if the 3 scum are mid to low, they won't bother trying to have a member with the highest priority most likely. However if they have say a level 2 or 3 member, then that does add a 2/4 or 1/4 chance they won't move up the priority ladder during the night with my current groupings. This also doesn't factor in how scum feel about their slots position with the town either. If their highest priority member is scummy to the town, I doubt they'll try to kill off higher priorities and focus on making kills elsewhere.

All that being said, for our analysis to be of any use they will need some clue as to who is who. So I guess I am against not claiming priority in some way.

[Aubrey]

I assume you mean soft claim, not a hard claim still? While the power roles would be set up to be slaughtered potentially, I do like the fact that it eliminates close to half of our options upfront, and it would take 6 nights for scum to kill off all power-roles. There would be the issue the 3 scum toggling off the 6 claimed PR's though, and them potentially role blocking one of the claimed slots if that power is already on. We'd need the higher priorities to toggle the claimed town power-roles on, and the lower priorities to toggle the unclaimed members off. This plan also stops us from accidentally turning on a Scum Power-role, unless they counterclaim upfront which then it just becomes a death sentence for them soon after.

high risk high reward with a dash of luck.

[Aubrey]

For the visual people, this is how it plays out if we just suck, can't locate scum at all, nor gain a kill-less night following Fitz plan.

(assuming we lynch unclaimed and scum kill claimed)

Today: 6 claimed 7 unclaimed 13 players
day 2: 5 claimed 6 unclaimed 11 players
day 3: 4 claimed 5 unclaimed 9 players
day 4: 3 claimed 4 unclaimed 7 players LYLO

day 5: 2 claimed 3 unclaimed 5 players game over.

That's a good amount of time to scum hunt in a decently small pool of players, and the power-roles still have the chance to be potentially effective here. This also forces scum to kill & toggle in a limited pool as well which can support the power-roles in locating them initially. Otherwise scum is just limiting where they can hide. The only issue is keeping our power roles toggled on.

[Aubrey]

The initial knee jerk reaction is to say F no, but after looking over the points it's not as crazy as it seems. Least that was my response initially.

[Aubrey]

Limit the scum hunting pool by half basically, limit the pool for PR's to target thus likely increase their potential. Sounds like a damn good thing. Unless an argument is brought forward that scum can render most of our PR's mute, I'm fine with the gambit. I'm just reading ppl scared to take a dive.

[Aubrey]

soft claim that is. If more than 6 claim, ask the 7th to hard claim and wait for the counter.

[Aubrey]

Why the hell would you say aloud what the optimal move would be for scum to make when they are unorganized right now to actually do anything strategic. Like that's just disarming a trap.

[Aubrey]

Unless they have a day talk that I'm unaware of, they are likely somewhat unorganized. I doubt they would be able to pull off a collaborative counter such as that today unless they are just damn good ass scum, or mind readers. Like, damn. Some things are better left unsaid, and this is the second comment now where a townie should have kept their thoughts to themselves.

--

pre-edit, of course we aren't claiming now. We just told them how to counter it.

[Aubrey]

mafia have day chat its in their role pm "you can talk in this thread if u r alive"

I apologize for the angered tone in my posts then. I was viewing that ordeal in a sense where they did not have day talk.

--

I'm going to take a step back from the game, I realize I'm spamming it with to many posts in a day. Try and limit myself to a single or two posts a day or something.

[Aubrey]

Because I failed to know scum have day talk? That should be considered Nai. If you townread that, then you're falling for one of the easiest tricks in the books.

[Aubrey]

I repeat @Key, I was viewing that thinking scum did not have day talk. With that view, it's kinda stupid to bring that up. Knowing now that they have day talk and can collaborate, not so stupid. There's a big difference between the two.

[Aubrey]

Because I failed to know scum have day talk? That should be considered Nai. If you townread that, then you're falling for one of the easiest tricks in the books.

No. Because you supported a plan that benefitted Scum, and freaked out when I said how Scum could easily screw us over if we did that.

I reacted to Realeo, not you, when I started my bitch fest. When I see people handing scum the "

how to block this tactic for dummies book

" yes I'm gonna get pissed when I believe they wouldn't have been able to come up with that block without a day talk. (Which I now know they have).

The way you phrased it especially made it sound like you already knew it could happen but didn't want anyone else to know.

I didn't, until it was mentioned. Even if I did, I would have still bitched while thinking scum not having day talk.

And then you decide it's a good idea to stop engaging in discussion and just lurk after two posts???? Sorry, but no.

This is my 24th post today. Yes, I need to cool down. Go into the mafia discussion threads. You'll find a number of threads with players bitching about ppl who post way to much. I know I'm one of those players who can post overboard at times. This isn't me opening myself up to start lurking. Far from it.

I repeat @Key, I was viewing that thinking scum did not have day talk. With that view, it's kinda stupid to bring that up. Knowing now that they have day talk and can collaborate, not so stupid. There's a big difference between the two.

Why can't scum collaborate without daytalk?

They know who each other are, and can easily play along with what each other says without ever needing to explicitly talk about it.

Dear god. Imagine the game w/o scum having day talk. DO YOU REALLY THINK two or more scum are going to be like, "

shit lets counter claim one another and ruin the town's master plan.

" Hell no. That is something that is more likely to happen premeditated than through silence and unspoken understanding. If scum are heavily experienced, yes I can see this possibily unfolding. If they had mind readers, yes I can see this unfolding. All that being said, Scum w/o day talk are not as organized as you all are giving them credit. If you think otherwise, then you need some more scum experience.

Further more, hypothetically as scum w/o day talk, you'd be putting yourself into a death sentence by adding your fake claim into the mix PRAYING your mates would be smart enough to counter claim you. Otherwise, your life would be short lived. Talk about high risk high reward, yet you still want to argue that scum w/o day talk would be smart enough and brave enough to follow through with that plan to counter the mass claim?

Yeah right

. If you can't see why I would be pissed looking through this lens, then

[Aubrey]

As long as your posts have content, it's not spamming. At least that's how I look at it.

And even then, one or two posts a day? There's not spamming and then there's not playing. That sounds like not playing to me.

You've clearly played long enough to know someone posting once or twice a day is considered an active player vs a typical player who will let 24 to 48 hrs pass by easy and often. Don't give me that crap. I'm not going to hard restrict my posting either, but I will try and keep hyper activity in check. I've been glued to this game far to long today.

[Aubrey]

Pretty sure it was in Fitz original plan to soft claim power roles unless I just imagined it.

[Aubrey]

furthermore hard claiming does come with it's draw backs in that instant. The hider might not be targeted at all for one which eliminates a possibility of a nightless kill.

[Aubrey]

Also, Realeo, Raya, and myself all came to that conclusion independently at roughly the same time. Not too much of a stretch to say at least one scum did as well.

I also don't recall either of you mentioning the counter claiming before Realeo did....

[Aubrey]

It's whatever. I'm kinda over this whole me not knowing day talk was a thing and reacting to something with mis-info.

[Aubrey]

Lol okay.

[Aubrey]

You've clearly played long enough to know someone posting once or twice a day is considered an active player vs a typical player who will let 24 to 48 hrs pass by easy and often.

I'd like to know why a player who posts once a day is active, but a player who frequently lets 24 hours pass in between posts is not

Like, what even is the point of this when the issue has already been addressed? You've basically been piggy back riding off of Rat's issues with me during this whole push. Your question doesn't even consider how much content and value is being generated between these two people, but if they are generating similar amounts of content, who between these two people is more active? Mathematically it's the person who posts everyday, and isn't attempting to lurk.

Let me give you some advice...if someone isn't posting a lot of content (nor really making any hard stances) and letting a day or days slide by w/o word, chances are that person is a lurking mafia member. Unless you want to argue that this applies to me, I don't get what you're trying to say here.

[Aubrey]

Frankly Fitz and Rat are my two strongest town leans right now. Rat right out the gate said something pretty foolish that I find hard to believe coming out of a scums finger tips. My belief is even stronger now knowing that they have day talk. Fitz (meta) tends to just poke things with a stick and ask pointless questions in order to allude the impression of "

Look at me, I'm town doing town things.

" Him going VLA and doing walls of content catchup is his usual though I believe. Regardless, the fact that nobody but myself supported his idea fully makes me think that it came from a town perspective more than likely. If this was a scum tactic to F the town over, more than just myself would have been in support mode to his notion I would think. I don't count Realeo into the equation since he was onboard and quickly backtracked out of it rather quickly.

I need to shuffle through the game again. I've bee more concerned with the spec crap than actually looking at what people are doing and defending myself.

@IAI: do you read and just comment as you go, or do you read everything then comment?

[Aubrey]

Can't tell if Nosferatu is just townie who doesn't care to put effort forward, or scum trying to slide through the beginning of the game.

[Aubrey]

allo do you respond as you catch-up,or fully catch up and then respond?

[Aubrey]

They have day talk....there is no need to try and sneak messages into their posts.

[Aubrey]

VOTE: Allo

[Aubrey]

Assuming you're caught up, your simply echoing old ideas and faking still not knowing scum have daytalk because I find it hard you missing that long debate.

[Aubrey]

The more I dwell on it, I probably should just leave you as null vs. scum lean. I'm just annoyed you straddled a simple question I asked you in order to understand what you were doing.

[Aubrey]

So here's what I'm thinking right now. If I'm correct that Fitz and Rat are town

(

and I know i'm town

)

Scum either echoed & followed

the masses

(like being the 3rd or 4th person to agree to something)

regarding the mass claim

(

I'd also argue that they followed the masses regarding priority levels, but I haven't put much thought in how much revealing priority levels helps scum or not

)

, Or they barely focused on spec talk, and were simply poking things with a stick to look productive here and there. The last place I think scum would be is the most obvious, and that is lurking out in the beginning of the game.

At some point I hope to revisit the game prior to this post with these points in mind, and see if any names pop out at me. Of course there will be additional factors I'll have to consider when backtracking and considering alignment possibilities.

--

I also would like to think Realeo is town based on his hop on and off of Fitz's concept. I'm not as quick to believe scum hopped on a plan, debunked the plan, and hopped off in order to gain town credit. I'm more likely to believe town kept mulling it over after joining, and discovered a weakness to it post joining said plan similar to what happened to me with my priority grouping plan and the half thought out toggle plan

(have idea, post idea, realize idea has more flaws that you originally thought)

. There is the small chance Fitz and he are scum buddies, and he sensed danger after following his buddy, but I feel as if that is unlikely right now.

[Aubrey]

If a number of us have been able to start generating reads/leans, and been able to pressure one another between the spec talk, I don't see why you can't. You're using the spec talk as an excuse to not put much work into the game.

VOTE: Nosferatu

Chick holds the same view you do, but that didn't stop her from being an active participant.

[Aubrey]

If anything, I'd expect more PRs in the low priority for balance purposes, but that's purely speculation.

This line doesn't come from scum. At least it is highly unlikely.

[Aubrey]

Cool. This can get roped.

[Aubrey]

When did I argue or even imply that spec setup was the ideal/important way to approach the game? I've said no such thing.

If you don't like spec set up, that's fine with me. What's not fine with me is when you're doing little to nothing, and using the spec talk as the excuse for why you're just being idle.

[Aubrey]

Hmm. Not leaning scum for Mozamis right now at a quick glance.

[Aubrey]

And the claims could just be generic such as "I'm a town PR" to make it a little more difficult for scum to nk specific PRs.

[Aubrey]

Pretty sure it was in Fitz original plan to soft claim power roles unless I just imagined it.

You missed this tid bit?

[Aubrey]

I have little reason to think Nosferatu town right now. Do I think we should totally drop all conversation and quick lynch'em with naked votes? Not exactly. Would I however be in tears if a wagon formed on'em? No. It was more of a exaggerated phrase to amplify my distaste for their actions mate.

[Aubrey]

I have an attitude that many people may not agree with. If I have little reason to think you're likely town, but reason to think you maybe scum or an apathetic townie who is just going to be a pesky grey slot for me to sort throughout the game, I'm fine pushing and potentially seeing that slot exterminated until I obtain reason to think it's town. usually in the first day phase or so. I consider it a potential victory if it flips scum, and I see it as a minor loss with small benefits if town.

pre-edit: Least likely? No no no. Misunderstanding. "the last place" as in last in a series. Btw, those were not listed from most likely - least likely. I think scum could easily be in any of those spots. I need to sit down and actually re-cap. Hopefully tonight, or sometime by tomorrow afternoon.

[Aubrey]

it just seems suspect that all of your scumreads are either perenniel lurkers or players that haven't really posted much and you happen to townread all the big-hitters for mostly fairly incidental reasons.

If all she was doing was voting and pushing lurkers to seem pro-town, I'd be on your side. That isn't the case.

I have an attitude that many people may not agree with. If I have little reason to think you're likely town, but reason to think you maybe scum or an apathetic townie who is just going to be a pesky grey slot for me to sort throughout the game, I'm fine pushing and potentially seeing that slot exterminated until I obtain reason to think it's town. usually in the first day phase or so. I consider it a potential victory if it flips scum, and I see it as a minor loss with small benefits if town.

pre-edit: Least likely? No no no. Misunderstanding. "the last place" as in last in a series. Btw, those were not listed from most likely - least likely. I think scum could easily be in any of those spots. I need to sit down and actually re-cap. Hopefully tonight, or sometime by tomorrow afternoon.

I understand what you're saying, that's fair enough.

I do disagree entirely with targeting someone for the reasons you describe just for the record. I would go as far as to say it's anti-town to just go after someone for that reason alone as it goes against the idea of actively scumhunting and being apathetic is pretty NAI imo. Furthermore if they are town this allows scum an easy target to go after to score a mislynch.

I find the slot scummish right now, don't care for their advances, and not working toward the town's win condition. I'm not voting the slot simply because I think it's going to be a pain to sort. It is a bonus reason though.

[Aubrey]

He*

[Aubrey]

EhHHhhhh.

[Aubrey]

Still not feeling like this is scum behavior.

[Aubrey]

It's alright. Everyone's wrong now and then. You'll get used to it

The ego is strong with this one.

[Aubrey]

Okay, wait. Which is it. Is she a scum lean or neutral? You're wording is making it hard to understand which it is.

[Aubrey]

Gotcha. Misunderstood your phrasing and assumed something different.

[Aubrey]

There's not enough on Fitz for me, so I'm not sure where that town read is coming from. Someone care to explain?

I've explained it already, but quick run down for why I do:

Meta

(weak reasoning)

normally he just pokes things idly as scum I think, vs. this big out there idea that was ballsy if scum. Further more, the plan received little to no support outside of myself. I know I'm town. I would have expected scum to support the plan in some fashion, or at least straddled the fence with it since this would have been an articulated move within their chat. Plans don't happen without voices in support to some extent. Realeo doesn't count as potential buddy-scum support since he hopped on and off within a short amount of time. Realeo's actions also seem more like a town move than a scum move, because if scum tried to put this plan into motion, or support it, why negate it shortly after? Counter productive efforts to get town points? Brilliant, but unlikely I feel. I also feel like town is more likely to half hazzardly jump onto an idea, and then logically backtrack once they consider the full ramifications of the plan afterwards more so than scum.

In short, I wouldn't say I town read them absolutely for the above reasons. Leaning town, yes.

Spoiler: If you do full catchups and then comment, don't worry about this.

As for your question, it usually depends how far behind I am. If there's been less than a page of post, I'm more likely to read and comment at once. But that is usually not the case so I more typically read and comment as I go. Why do you ask?

I prefer people to do the former rather than the ladder. Otherwise it's harder to keep track and understand how you are viewing the game-state at it's current point. It can be muddy info, and sometimes straight up unnecessary parroting at times when ppl do the ladder. Classic example of why one should do the former (posts 232 - 239). Obviously I'm not going to dictate how you play, do what you want, but I've always considered a full catch up & commentary to be the optimal way to go about it for these reasons.

Again, in short, it helps me better understand where your mind is at the time, and not play guess work. Paranoia doesn't mix well with guess work

[Aubrey]

Regarding the Moz wagon, I liked the fact he was grouping people vocally regardless of how strong or weak the reasons were for most the game so far. If he is scum, he is playing in a style that is basically tying one arm behind his back, and making it harder on himself as the game progresses. He's also playing against the grain some I feel, and I like that. Town need to filter and game solve, scum need to stay alive and keep movement available. That is the basic gist of it all.

[Aubrey]

Let's pretend that brain fart of mine never happened.

[Aubrey]

Regarding that shitty toggle plan.

[Aubrey]

Aubrey- that’s a silly reason for even a semi-serious line of inquiry.

LOLOL, which line of reasoning. I've had plenty of bad ones so far it seems. Like this is my worst game start in forever.

Did i miss something, Aubrey seemed against our prs claiming, yet you vote him. Fitz was the one who said that prs should soft claim, and all he gets is lumped into a aubrey vote post?

I was at the time. You're in for a rude awakening for when I 360 that train of thought though.

Wait, why do you think this?

lol, ya'll keep bringing up that horrid toggle plan of mine. Shhhttoop. The plan sucked, and is not even functional since for whatever reason I thought we could toggle by number rather than name. I do think this is a miscommunication though. I don't think all the scum PR's are activated, but if the toggle plan were functional and executed, then they would be. Now let's never mention that terrible terrible plan of mine again.

[Aubrey]

Fucking hell. I wonder where that information could be found. Perhaps right in the sample roles pms that the mod was so gracious to give to us.

Yes yes we get it. Aubrey is a complete and utter dumbass. No need to repeat what the world already knows.

[Aubrey]

Explain why this is?

Keep reading. I re-explained this earlier today.

[Aubrey]

This kinda feels like it could be a message hidden in plain sight. LIke Aub could be telling Allo to get his ass in the scum pr and read up before he says any other stupid shit.

Are you trying to say he and I are scum trying to fake not knowing about day talk independently, and I'm bitching at him for trying the gambit after I did? If so, wouldn't that be the funniest shit and amazingly timed.

I like this post, kinda makes me lean more towards town after everything thats been said. Could this be a bus vote though?

.....Soooo scum me is bitching at scum Allo, and later scum us are bitching at scum Nos, while scum Nos is then in retaliation bitching at scum Allo. Look at that triangle of scum distancing. Do you really think scum would be thaaaat hell bent on creating distance? Come on.

[Aubrey]

This kinda feels like it could be a message hidden in plain sight. LIke Aub could be telling Allo to get his ass in the scum pr and read up before he says any other stupid shit.

Are you trying to say he and I are scum trying to fake not knowing about day talk independently, and I'm bitching at him for trying the gambit after I did? If so, wouldn't that be the funniest shit and amazingly timed.

Yes? No? I havent decided yet? Maybe this is just somethin I needed to point out for myself so that later I can look back and give it more or less credence based of future events.

I like this post, kinda makes me lean more towards town after everything thats been said. Could this be a bus vote though?

.....Soooo scum me is bitching at scum Allo, and later scum us are bitching at scum Nos, while scum Nos is then in retaliation bitching at scum Allo. Look at that triangle of scum distancing. Do you really think scum would be thaaaat hell bent on creating distance? Come on.

If you guys think you needed to distance from each other what better way than that?

Okay. Being suspicious of me I can deal with, but your paranoia is reaching to all sorts of new levels with that last one if you're really contemplating that.

[Aubrey]

Egads man! This is why I tried to make a joke, to try and make you smile! It's not enjoyable to watch someone verbally beat themselves up, whether it's scum trying to brush it under the rug or town frustrated with themselves. Either way - please stop.

I actually wrote that in a semi light hearted manner, but I can see how it can be misinterpreted.

[Aubrey]

There are much easy ways to seem like you're doing work, than limiting your avenues as scum. Especially up to this point, and yes I would. As scum I don't want to pretend to scum-read someone, and make sure it is a justifiable change from a town-read/lean I had given that person previously if I don't have to deal with that ordeal to begin with.

Not to mention, you just argued that what he is doing would be advantageous as scum. Isn't he the top wagon right now?

[Aubrey]

I'm keeping an eye on Mozamis as I have a sketchy feeling about him but don't feel right now he is scum.

Why are you arguing with me over this when you yourself don't think he is scum?

[Aubrey]

Least not scummy enough to warrant a vote.

[Aubrey]

I don't think his actions are trollish, but maybe troll is a term with many meanings and forms for different people.

[Aubrey]

Wouldn't I be considered a troll since i'm not engaging in dialog with him?

[Aubrey]

I'm keeping an eye on Mozamis as I have a sketchy feeling about him but don't feel right now he is scum.

Why are you arguing with me over this when you yourself don't think he is scum?

This is kind of a weird question..

I'm keeping an open mind on Mozamis, same as everybody. I'm not arguing as such as I'm asking questions, and in some ways thinking out loud about him too while I'm asking you.

Why shouldn't I be doing this? Or to put it another way, why is it odd for a town player to be expected to keep an open mind on the other players and to keep querying others about their thoughts on them? This does not fit what you have been doing so far this game.

Keeping an open mind is the one thing, but when you say he's not suspicious enough to warrant a vote from you right now, and that he is townish for you, it doesn't make sense why you would be arguing with someone else who also doesn't want to vote him currently. You're not so much trying to figure out why I townread him, but rather challenge, if not change, my town lean. See how this is counter productive? If you want him pressured, vote him. If you want town to focus elsewhere, why argue with me over that slot? If you just don't care what happens to that slot, same question.

[Aubrey]

I'm not sure, at some point or another you will be pressured to give reads if you're not forthcoming with them, why not get a leg up on this?

He is indeed the top wagon right now, and I am arguing the weak reasoning for his reads would make sense if he is scum.

I never did really address this. At some point I guess you just need to figure out what you think scum would likely do with some understanding that scum don't always play the usual scum antics. When I'm scum, I don't give out a lot of town reads for the very reason I brought up. I beat around the bush with them, keep them very open when possible, or I follow the general town stance. Since the game is still in the early stages, I'm going to be looking at the normalities that I believe constitute a town alignment and scum alignment as a working basis and go from there.

--

Why not get a leg up on this? Because again you're tying one arm behind your back when you don't have to. He's going the harder road to fling out activity when there are easier avenues. As long as you are sprinkling some questions and scum hunting

(not necessarily town hunting)

, people tend to leave you alone about reads for the most part

(especially early on)

. Kinda circumstantial though.

--

Is weak reasoning really scum indicative early on? Why can't town have weak reasoning in the beginning? Why is it outlandish that the lurkers are in his bottom reads and the more active players are in his top reads? Seems like typical reasoning to me, yet one of the reasons he is being scum read is for this.

Pre-edit:

Why do you keep saying I am arguing with you? I've already said I'm not. I'm challenging what I perceive to be faulty logic in your support of him to try and decipher why you are doing this.

If you challenge what you perceive to be faulty logic, and that person doesn't buck, are you not then arguing? I said ___, you said ___, I returned with ____, and you returned with ___. You are now in an argument of perceptions. That is why I used the term.

I never said I townread him Aubrey. He isn't suspicious enough to warrant a vote at the moment but he isn't exactly clean from my point of view.

Well which way are you leaning then. More scummy with a hint of town or more town with a hint of scum. I can't for sure tell how you feel about him with this info.

I'm challenging what I perceive to be faulty logic in your support of him to try and decipher why you are doing this.

Either I'm hard defending him as scum, or I'm town not in support with this wagon for the reasons I gave.

As a rule I don't usually take town focus into consideration as it's not something I aim to influence barring a few obvious exceptions.

I do. If the player pool is focusing on someone I don't like I'm a very happy camper. If they are focusing on someone I think could likely flip town, not a happy camper. If someone is town reading someone for reasons I don't agree with, I may inquire about it, but likely won't attempt to change their opinions of that slot if I town read it as well.

[Aubrey]

The only thing that has me indecisive about scumreading Allo was him forgetting scum having day talk during his supposed catch-up shortly after my blunder, but I can't tell if that was an orchestrated move or not.

[Aubrey]

My heart says it wasn't, but my head differs. I think his lack of play is really assisting my distrust.

[Aubrey]

Yes, but it was offensive to have it announced that I was prodded when I was not. What if I hadn't checked the thread, and had been replaced without a warning prod? It's just rude. In any case, I was finally prodded, so that's nice.

Everyone's offended these days. Maybe you should check the thread sooner within a 3 day time span in order to avoid potentially offense. Most mods only give you 48 hrs before being prodded. Not to mention, if you let an additional 24 hours pass after three days, you kinda deserve to be force replaced at that point. Regardless of being notified.

--

This is why I can't mod. I'd either mod kill or force replace you on the spot due to attitude alone.

[Aubrey]

I'm going to ask a blatant question. How old are you Allo and what is your experience with the game?

[Aubrey]

Aubrey getting caught making a stupid play and then going "i need to post less cuz site meta" is scummy as hell

Lol, K. Yet I'm still one of the top posters, and still opinionated as hell. Clearly I've followed through with that statement.

[Aubrey]

If anything, I'd expect more PRs in the low priority for balance purposes, but that's purely speculation.

This line doesn't come from scum. At least it is highly unlikely.

can you elaborate?

Sure,

I personally don't understand why scum would say that here rather than their private day chat. Scum!Rat is basically PR hunting then since he's arguing for us to give out our priority levels. As scum, I sure as hell wouldn't ask you to give me your priorities because I'm thinking the Pr's might be related to the levels. That last bit would be under lock and key.

It just comes off as town with a loose tongue in my opinion. If the assassin hands the target a drink, does he tell him it's poisoned?

[Aubrey]

I wouldn't cry if he got lynched. I've been debating moving my vote to him a good bit. Especially after he did nothing after the prod beyond state the obvious. Which might I add was directed at a relatively new statement. Within 20 minutes he read 100 posts, and solely commented on one of the most relevant (if not irrelevant) topics at hand.

Do I think his slot is an easy place to vote? Sure. Do I think it's justifiable to scum read him, pretty much now. Again, I only hesitate due to that supposed catchup, and not knowing about the scum day chat directly after my blunder. I'm getting to the point where I don't know if that makes up for his play though.

I almost wanted to say that he is probably new, and doesn't know what to exactly do. However, I quickly decided that isn't townish because he'd act the same way as scum. So

[Aubrey]

20 minutes after complaining. 6 pages worth of content, and all we get is an obvious statement? K

[Aubrey]

Look at his ISO and take into account the post #'s and Time stamps.

[Aubrey]

In short,

He either did the biggest skim ever once he was prodded

(assuming he had not been checking the thread up to that point)

, or he was actively lurking. I can't imagine being able to critically consider 6 pages worth of content in 20 minutes. And even if he were actively lurking, or able to critically consider all that info, you can't tell me he shouldn't have been able to vocally further a read, change a read, bring forward an opinion, or at least pressure/ask a question at some point within 6 pages.

It's just seems as if he was prodded, needed to say

something

, so he commented on something small in order to go back to lurking.

--

So Fitz, what are your thoughts?

[Aubrey]

LOL, Fitz. Use context clues here. Yes.

[Aubrey]

I'm confused as to what you're not understanding about it. refer back to 519. I'm being point blank on the matter.

[Aubrey]

o shit, hes at L1.

[Aubrey]

^ eh.

[Aubrey]

If it comes down to Moz or Allo, I'm going after Allo. Don't know why everyone is in love with Nosferatu, but whatever.

[Aubrey]

Regarding the Moz wagon, I liked the fact he was grouping people vocally regardless of how strong or weak the reasons were for most the game so far. If he is scum, he is playing in a style that is basically tying one arm behind his back, and making it harder on himself as the game progresses. He's also playing against the grain some I feel, and I like that. Town need to filter and game solve, scum need to stay alive and keep movement available. That is the basic gist of it all.

First of all his arm apparently isn't tied because his reads have flopped all game. Also reads list on their own are an easy way for scum to try to blend in and look like they are scumhunting. It's the reasons behind the reads that show if someone is scumhunting or just scum.

Case in point:

Moz's "read on me" so far is based on 1) my questions to Chick early on and 2) he has seen good scum play by me in the past. Forget the point that he later thought Chick was scum yet kept me in the scum pile. And #2 is strictly an appeal to fear tactic that scum use. "Hey guys, this guy is such a good scum player and nobody thinks he scum which means he must be. Let's vote him."

He's been shat on for a good while, so i'd argue it is if he is scum. Your suspicion on him points directly to this since your basing it off of him being vocal about reads for reasons you consider poor.

[Aubrey]

@ Aubrey - think Nos is town. Get on Allo!

plz don't tell me it's because of their stubborn entry, cause I don't townread that like somebody said.

[Aubrey]

That's not why you are getting voted up.

[Aubrey]

What don't you get? The significance or how I got that number.

[Aubrey]

If it's the ladder go to his ISO and look at his first post where he complains, and then look at the posts where he starting "playing the game" shortly after. Assuming he didn't check the thread at all until being prodded, one would assume he was reading between this time period (in fact it is less than 20, I'm just rounding)

Hence look at his ISO and the time stamps.

VOTE: Allo

[Aubrey]

Nobody hammer till we get a claim.

[Aubrey]

Aubrey, correct me if I'm wrong.

[Aubrey]

I explained immediately after voting.

[Aubrey]

@MJ: I don't care for either, but more sympathetic to Allo.

[Aubrey]

Hmmm conflicted might be a better word than sympathetic. Regardless.

[Aubrey]

Did you just say I haven't regarded Allo? If so, what game are you reading?

Will unvote in a bit. Waiting for a cc possibility.

[Aubrey]

Okay. Again, context clues. If I've been arguing against him, and put him back at L1 after Chick left the wagon, clearly my conflicted state wasn't enough for me to drop the issues I had. The main issues were activity based, so there was some doubt from it coming from a new or apathetic townie.

[Aubrey]

Okay. Again, context clues. If I've been arguing against him, and put him back at L1 after Chick left the wagon, clearly my conflicted state wasn't enough for me to drop the issues I had. The main issues were activity based, so there was some doubt from it coming from a new or apathetic townie.

[Aubrey]

VOTE: Nos if there is a cc, I'm going back to Allo.

[Aubrey]

^ basically.

[Aubrey]

I don't have any alignment pull for Flub. I don't understand why it is scummy for him to not mention the main wagon though. What's the scum intention behind that?

[Aubrey]

Though at this point, it's risky for scum to fake claim,

Not if they are about to be lynched. Eye for an eye. If he is fake claiming, I'd advise the real PR to CC. That's just me though.

[Aubrey]

What wagon are you alluding to here?

Moz was talking about Allo's wagon followed by his own.

Anyone not willing to vote moz I'd like to hear why.

I'm not going to repeat why for a 3rd time.

[Aubrey]

Isn't Raya due a prod by now?

[Aubrey]

@Rat, when I was on the wagon, everyone else was looking elsewhere. I also feel I have to take pause, because I've seen mom play exactly like this as town. Granted, I haven't seen his scum game. But still. If there's interest in a Moza wagon, I'll hop back on. Otherwise I've stated my lynch pool.

Care if I ask at what point did you realize that his play was reminiscent of a previous game?

[Aubrey]

Hmm. Less likely to believe scum is putting on a show to seem disinterested/lurky, than them actually being disinterested/lurky. Regardless, we are on a similar wavelength.

[Aubrey]

Thread is on fire, but let's remain respectful here.

oh mjollnir made a big boy post

i guess ill read it

For the record, he's 25 and you're 16. There's being cute & funny, then there's just being disrespectful. He's not replying to you saying, "

Oh look the baby is goo-goo-gah-gaahing! better give him some attention!

" If you said something like the above to me, I'd be extremely frustrated with you.

[Aubrey]

A man in his mid-early 20's (or older) isn't going to want a mid-teen saying to him, "

look at you, making a big boy post.

" which is how your line is interpreted. I apologize for chastising you now knowing what you really meant, but that is a phrase typically used towards a child. I'd be cautious of using that phrase for future reference, because it can be easily seen as degrading.

[Aubrey]

Yawn

Moz is likely dead. Doubt the tides will turn against Nos. Realeo will vote, and someone will likely hammer. Kinda just want him lynched already so we can move onto tomorrow, but I'm not going to muddy up the info just because I'm impatient for a flip.

[Aubrey]

Keychain, end it.

[Aubrey]

Or make your push on me.

[Aubrey]

Moz is basically a dead man walking. Fitz's naked vote is fine for now, and can be explained tomorrow. I'm actually just happy to see a vote from him. This whole, "

Let's wait to page bottom

" is silly.

Nos is town here. Not lynching him.

Whelp, I'm sold.

[Aubrey]

b) Well you put Mozamis in your suspects pile before (in Post 452 and you haven't mentioned him in your ISO since. What makes you reluctant to hammer?

This game needs more drama!

[Aubrey]

I have more. Like seriously, there should be a post restriction in a game where you can only use horrid TV gifs. Particularly soap operas.

--

So we have Key threatening to vote, and Fitz threatening to vote. Moz, the deadest man alive 2017. Now which one will put on that black hood and drop the blade on his neck?

--

I'd play executioner, but it'd be for something I didn't support. If he is to die, it should be by the hands of those who do support his death. Take it for what you will.

[Aubrey]

Aubrey, yourself and Chickadee actually are my picks for scum at the moment.

[Aubrey]

What the actual heck

[Aubrey]

Hold onto your seat M, we about to see if we're right.

[Aubrey]

Well, that eliminates one player I kept wavering on. Hey Uzi.

[Aubrey]

Is there some reason why her last reads should mean something?

[Aubrey]

Personally I wouldn't be shocked if two scum were on Moz and one off. I'd put my money on those odds, though I'd hesitate to put my money on all 3 being on the Moz wagon.

[Aubrey]

Everyone on the Nos wagon I kinda like. Fitz....well frankly I waver, though I find myself wanting to believe him town. Raya, now Uzi, is an enigma for me. I'll need to swipe through her ISO and see how Uzi plays. Then that leaves everyone on the Moz wagon I get to consider.

[Aubrey]

Or could have simply been a power role suspicion kill.

[Aubrey]

....If that lynch bait is a power-role, they really aren't lynch bait then. Allo is a prime example, so I disagree in the assumption that Chick couldn't have been a power-role suspicion kill. Regardless, go about it how you please. Interested to hear which one/ones you think it is.

[Aubrey]

Oh? lil' ol' me? What I do this time to deserve your suspicion?

[Aubrey]

Wow. I was expecting the usual boring meta read from you, but instead you actually have a case on me this time.

--

I didn't like your attempt to lash out at those who were discussing a plan to break the setup. You were not only making the assumption on how in-sync scum were at the time, but also their skill level, with little to no basis. It read like an attempt to make more out of an already bad situation that you were unironically supporting and trying to distract town in order to prevent the setup speculation from dropping.

Don't know what you mean in the first sentence, but I assume you think scum w/o day talk are just as coordinated as scum w/ day talk judging from your second sentence. On that point I disagree with you entirely since that is the entire basis for my in-sync assumptions. I don't recall saying scum are of a certain skill level, only that people in general think scum are all knowing when they are just as capable of silly human error as the next person. Don't know what you exactly mean in the final sentence either. Whole lot a ???? on my end here.

Pre:edit: I re-read this. If you're going to argue that you didn't believe me not knowing about scum having day chat, just word it like that instead.

I didn't like how you sort of you went straight to immediately misrepresenting Rat in 162.

So I misrepresented this post: 161? Am I suppose to be a mind reader with commentary like that? Sorry for not being born into a gypsy family.

(Wish I were though. Do my own damn palm readings)

The way you first initially voted for Allo was all sorts of confusing - mainly because you didn't get a proper answer to your 232.

Yeah, that was more of a lash out of frustration.

[Aubrey]

Shit, forgot the Nos part of Uzi's suspicion. Okay,

Just because a small group of people are doing fine in a game that has mostly consisted of setup speculation and mafia theory, doesn't mean Nos is capable or wants to.

I mean, good for you for being a kind and gentle soul regarding play like this, it however doesn't mean jack to me though. If you are not doing much, get a vote. Plain and simple. Add on the other reasons I had, and I feel fully justified in my vote and push yesterday.

I have marginal waverings right now, but Nos is still a decent suspect for me.

People think differently, especially when it comes to mafia.

I know, and those who think differently in a way that I don't like get my vote if I think they are scum

The lack of effort on Nos part shouldn't be alignment indicative for anyone because its simply a case of disagreeing with someone's play style.

Lack of effort is a fine reason to be suspected & potentially killed off. Otherwise lurkish inactive scum would easily win every time. Furthermore, if the playstyle is a scummy one, then it deserves to get pushed for the very reason of it being scummy until reasons are found for it to be considered a town slot. End of story.

There's also no motivation for Nos to lurk as scum in my opnion because it doesn't help control the game state or secure mislynches.

I just lost a game where one scum basically lurked his way to victory as the town devoured itself, so don't even argue that there is no motivation for scum to lurk.

[Aubrey]

Meta read? Huh?

In our previous run arounds, you always used meta against/for me! You were correct once, and wrong the either.

I wouldn't say extremely coordinated but not far off. I'll have you know, at least from my time on this site, Day chat is severely underutilized and scum usually have time to get familiar with each other and game plan in pre-game. It was also implied you were assuming skill level.

I've yet to be scum with a day chat, so I have little knowledge with that. I've had plenty of experience with not having a day chat, and I can tell you the familiarity of pregame is BS. I've been scum plenty of times, and yet to feel any sense of coordination with my partners besides what we talk about during the night. Even then it quickly becomes a free for all afterwards. If you believe in what you say, you and I must have had extremely different experiences.

--

I can't assume skill level of scum as town, and it doesn't make sense to even mention skill level of my teammates as scum, so this point of yours doesn't make much sense to me.

As for my last sentence, your supposed frustration read to me as a way to keep the setup speculation going. It drew more attention to it and became part of the overall discussion for a bit thus having extending it and keeping town from scum hunting. As well as continuing to give scum an easy way to fit in and look like they're game solving.

This is outlandish.

Hypothetically speaking, if I were scum, the intention behind what happened would make better sense to have appeared like a confused town player rather than being a catalyst to generate more spec talk. I don't even deal with spec talk after this point, so my goal is clearly not to use & abuse set up speculation to generate content for myself, nor my

partners

.

Not about being a mind reader there bud, it is about a level of awareness that was expected. The main point of that whole sequence was that you were supposedly upset about the optimal play given to scum

Rat: Aub is scum.
Aub: Because of this???
Rat: No, because of this.
Uzi: Aubrey shoulda known, scum

Mind reading basically. Let's try this out then. I think Mjollnir is town <---- Based on this info

(and something that happened in the past)

, you should understand the exact reasons for why

I

think this. So, why do I think he is town? Try and stick away from a blanket statement.

Could you restate the other reasons you have for scum reading Nos?

Spoiler: Most my posts pertaining to Nos yesterday

221
250
260
274

(me disagreeing with the Moz stance shortly after Nos's push) take into account future posts where I go into detail regarding why.

290
294

(last bit)

656 (me agreeing with some of Mjollnir's stances, but correcting what I don't)

or in short for yesterday

- Didn't like the early lurkyness
- Didn't like the reasons for why he was lurking.
- Didn't like the progression onto Moz both logically, and how he was forced to give a read.
- Didn't feel open about reads in general.
- Never found a reason to waver in my stance save for one tiny, if not insignificant, moment.

^ These are all suitable reasons to be suspected. Especially on D1.

[Aubrey]

I'm going to lurk until LuV v Aubrey is over. I can use counter balance for my townread @ Aubrey.

....

[Aubrey]

WILL UZI GET REVENGE FOR HIS GIRLFRIENDS MURDER!? WILL AUBREY EVER LEAVE NOSFERATU ALONE!? AND WILL ALLO EVER TELL US WHAT HE IS THINKING?!
TUNE IN NEXT TIME FOR

MAFIA: LIFE, LOVE, & DEATH!

[Aubrey]

I don't understand the importance of saying whether we turned someone on or off, but I also don't see the harm in it either if it remains nameless. I turned someone on.

[Aubrey]

Does nobody has any question for me? Even I can make some reasoning to fos my self that may require clarification.

This is just kinda eh to me.

Shouldn't you be more concerned trying to determine other peoples slots, and just deal with clarifying yourself when the times comes naturally instead of hasting up that process?

[Aubrey]

Just to set the record straight, I raised my eyebrow at Realeo vocally saying "

I'ma lurk cause I want to watch this Uzi vs. Aub play out

"

It's one of those, "

why say this?

" moments. You can push your own agendas, and silently watch the debate play out while taking mental notes.

[Aubrey]

Eh. If someone were to counterclaim, I'd suspect them before Allo at this point. I don't understand why they wouldn't claim yesterday. 1: they are 1 time bp, so it's not like they would be in immediate danger to a NK (or less likely to be). 2: we would have killed 1-3 scum yesterday if not today, sure thing. 3: We have a second power role that could protect them easily if it is turned on. There is little excuse to not CC yesterday.

[Aubrey]

Just to set the record straight, I raised my eyebrow at Realeo vocally saying "

I'ma lurk cause I want to watch this Uzi vs. Aub play out

"

It's one of those, "

why say this?

" moments. You can push your own agendas, and silently watch the debate play out while taking mental notes.

Are you seriously criticizing someone for being transparent with their thoughts

VOTE: aubrey

Weren't you on the Moz wagon? A person who was voted up for being transparent with their thoughts and reads.

[Aubrey]

WILL UZI GET REVENGE FOR HIS GIRLFRIENDS MURDER!? WILL AUBREY EVER LEAVE NOSFERATU ALONE!? AND WILL ALLO EVER TELL US WHAT HE IS THINKING?!
TUNE IN NEXT TIME FOR

MAFIA: LIFE, LOVE, & DEATH!

Why do you only have time for posts like these and defending yourself from luv?

It's a hard life.

[Aubrey]

I don't know, must have been my other personality speaking Either you got a post number wrong, or a name wrong.

[Aubrey]

^

echo

echo

echo

--

@Flub: If you mean 853, then frankly it means you're holding me to standards that you yourself can't even follow.

How dare I question someone for being forthright

, when you yourself voted for a player who was exceedingly forthright and lost this life to it? Yeah.....

Not to mention Realeo isn't even a big interest for me right now. He did something that I considered odd, pointed it out, and he responded. See me voting him, and making a big call to action against him currently? No. Yet you're quick to jump the gun, and vote me over a simple observation and opinion I had. If anything Realeo was, and still is, a slight town lean that began to waver around the end of D1.

[Aubrey]

Clearly I was wrong about that, but it wasn't because he was being transparent

This is just you stating not liking

how

he was being transparent. Had he been less transparent, he may have lived past D1. Regardless that is here nor there. Care to explain to me why you are helping to defend Flub against my counter argument when you yourself were questioning Realeo just as I was?

[Aubrey]

I disagree with a mass claim regarding who we turned on or off. You're just then telling scum which person you think is a potential power-role. It should be nameless. I'm fine with a mass claim of who turned someone on or off without a name.

M is decently town for me regardless of him turning someone off. While I see your point, I feel as if M does play looking for scum before town based on how he has progressed this game, and a bit of raw gut. He seems to be the overly conflicted type. With this in mind, it isn't shocking he'd turn someone off. I have another detailed reason that I'm keeping to myself until Uzi is done playing my game.

[Aubrey]

Clearly I was wrong about that, but it wasn't because he was being transparent

This is just you stating not liking

how

he was being transparent. Had he been less transparent, he may have lived past D1. Regardless that is here nor there. Care to explain to me why you are helping to defend Flub against my counter argument when you yourself were questioning Realeo just as I was?

I'm sorry, why does my attitude toward Realeo mean I should also be suspicious of Flub?

I'm sorry, this doesn't even remotely answer why you are defending Flub from me. I, a person who had the same exact reaction you had towards Realeo, who is getting scum read by non other than Flub for those very reasons.

[Aubrey]

So then you are for what he is advocating against me? I'm confused. He and I are having a spat, yes? Then you waltz in and make a comment that would in general work towards his favor, even though he is pushing me on something you and I had similar reactions to. It just isn't lining up for me.

[Aubrey]

I mean seriously, you have three options.

1) in support of my defense / reaction that Flub is against.

2) in support of his case against me.

3) think we are both town being stupid attacking one another.

maybe 4) scum distancing but .

--

Pick one.

[Aubrey]

I commented on both accounts. Hmm, somewhere in the mix I had it in my mind he was pushing me on both regards due to the whole "

pushing someone for being transparent

" bit.

Shrug*

[Aubrey]

Uzi
I Am Innocent

havingfitz

mozamis

Mjollnir

Nosferatu

Allomancer

Realeo

Radical Rat

Flubbernugget

Chickadee

Aubrey

Keychain

This is where i'm currently at.
Everyone striked I have reasons to think potentially town that outweigh reasons to believe they are scum right now. Or they are confirmed town. The two weakest are Realeo and Fitz.

un-striked are the vice versa in which I don't have enough reason to believe they are town enough to be struck off currently.

[Aubrey]

Nos thought I was likely town and isn't scratched off...

[Aubrey]

Aubrey, would you be able to expand on the reasons for that Fitz townread?
Also happy birthday

Still like his ballsy play, and willing-ness to advocate for his plan even when it had negative reviews 3rd time around. Figure scum would flinch away from continuously advocating for it by that point. A bit of gut too from playing with him before. He's on the weaker side of my town leans / reads.

Also thank you.

[Aubrey]

There are plenty of ways to gauge skill level and I think in this case you were.

What's my scum motive for doing this again? Seems like gauging scum would come more from a town pov, even if we disagree with how easy it is for one to do so.

There isn't a lot of in-depth thinking in terms of mechanics scum have to do here due to already possessing something that can't be turned off in a factional ability and town outnumbering them. So factoring in both of those things along with them being informed, it is a bit far-fetched to insinuate any of the plans that were openly discussed hadn't been discussed or ran through the mind of one of the members of the scum team. Especially without a flip.

Maybe i'm just to tired to fully grasp what your talking about here, so huh? If this is once again regarding my annoyance with Realeo for telling scum the optimal counter to Fitz plan, then I'm quite honestly over this conversation. I didn't know scum had day talk. Doubt they would have been able to come up with a collective counter w/o daytalk, thus I went off on a tangent.

The end. Hell, Chick was annoyed with Realeo even when knowing scum had day talk after my ignorant tangent, and she was town! So I don't understand why you're scum reading me for throwing a fit when your own girlfriend had a similar moment even when she was more informed than I was at the time.

Why is it outlandish? There's nothing bizarre about scum wanting to prevent town from actually solving the game.

Ugh.

Uzi:

"Aubrey, how dare you fake a reaction in order to keep people talking about spec talk because it. is. so. scummy! The town clearly needs to scum hunt! You're just trying to give your partners something to talk about because they are just so clueless, and can't generate any of their own content even though you all have a day chat where you could just guide them and tell them what to say from there. Instead you have to create openings for them to have a moment to actually play the game, and force the town into a stasis since we only have two weeks to scum hunt! and we were already close to being done with one week!! "

This is literally how you are coming across to me, and it is just out there in my eyes.

Not having discussed setup speculation after that point doesn't mean it wasn't your goal. If you and your partners see that you've successfully kept it going, why would you need to participate in the foreseeable future any further?

All i'm saying is if the initial goal is to generate noise, one would think we'd continue to do so afterwards if we considered it effective. Do you think all i've done this game is generate noise?

I don't have a read on Mjo but I can see why someone would town read him. I think his interactions and progression on Moz is a fair reason to do so. I'm not going to go in-depth here since I don't have the time currently but I don't think this falls under blanket. Of course you'll just say this wasn't it anyway but I don't know if you're that bold

Vague as ever.

He was suspicious of Moz, and as scum it would have been an easy target to just hop onto and push. Instead he choose to engage with the person of an opposite viewpoint, me. After hearing what I said, he changed his viewpoint after awhile even though he could have still easily stayed against Moz. From there he joins me in my suspicions against Nosferatu, but for reasons that I had not vocalized. He started to make his own harder push where scum could have easily just sheeped me for the few reasons I had already given. As scum, who cares? As long as you have a reason to be where you are (even if it is a shallow one), who gives a rat's ass if a differing mislynch goes through. All of this points to me to think he has a decent chance at being town.

[Aubrey]

Uzi is starting to exasperate me. Why would scum me tell everyone the ability level of my partners? What purpose does that even serve?And does anybody else actually agree with his claim of me faking ignorance for the reasons he's stated? Like this is about to turn into a shitty repetition battle.

[Aubrey]

The whole, "I get why ppl would townread milj, but I just don't know" is also kinda questionable to me. Explain that.

[Aubrey]

The silent understanding of your teammates ability doesn't correlate in being able to swiftly counter a plan that would more than likely need a pre meditated vocalized plan of attack between the team.

--

This comes down to a simple belief. Either you think scum are talented enough to pull off such a scheme w/o day talk, or you don't. I fall under the "

Don't

" category. Now, I've dealt with this "

day talk or no day talk

" blunder for long enough, and I have nothing else to say on it. By all means, refer back to post 175 If you need a refresher course on why I don't.

[Aubrey]

Aubrey, isnt the conclusion of most your "case" is X is being wrong instead of X being scum?

And your point?

This may come across as cold, but; I'd much rather you tell me what you think about the matter, and the debate, rather than just asking me a question with an obvious answer.

[Aubrey]

I'm not pushing him to be a liar...I'm defending myself against his claims.

[Aubrey]

Rat is more interested in his initial "

scum killed my girlfriend so they can frame me

" gig. Least that is what I feel.

--

I don't care for Uzi's push on me because I think attacking me for my sum day chat ignorance is an easy place for scum to strike out against. I feel the same way about him attacking me for my earliest frustrated vote onto Allo, which I basically recanted later on. I did however vote again later due to his overall lackluster play though, but that is never mentioned by him. He's also pushing me for not understanding Rat's reason for saying I'm scum? That is just bull to me. "

Well you shoulda known what wasn't said

" is just kinda frustrating when it wasn't clear at all.

--

In short, his logical push is bad to me, and I don't like that the pushes are all fairly easy things to push someone on in my opinion. I also feel as if I've been fairly townish. At least enough to cause someone to waver if they scum read me, and I don't sense that at all from him. I do however waver because it is easier for me to suspect him for pushing me since I know I'm town. I find it a pain in the arse to read someone who attacks me vs someone who attacks someone else.

--

I also haven't put much thought into his initial thoughts about Chick's death. The whole "

scum might be trying to frame me for being a lover to the deceased

" and then looking back only to see nobody here would know they were lovers, just seems a bit strange to come from scum to me. The only scum motive I can currently imagine is the attempt to stop , or cause fear of, town from pushing that agenda early on. But then why not check the player list before saying it? I almost want to say this would more likely come from a paranoid town than an articulative scum. <--- but I have nothing to back that up with other than a perception I have for scum / gut.

--

In short, he has pros and cons and I don't know which outweigh the other.

[Aubrey]

A better example regarding Uzi's lover's frame comment.

It just seems like a bad plan as scum to say X when there is a chance you might not have had to say X to begin with. Especially when X could potentially place an unnecessary seed of doubt in the minds of the town when X's original indent was to be a defensive ploy against that very seed to begin with. You'd just think as scum he'd be more cautious, and check to see if anybody would have known to begin with. That's the best example I know how to illustrate my feelings toward it.

[Aubrey]

I don't know if i'm not being clear or just purposefully misrepresented either.

[Aubrey]

- explained why your detailed reasoning for it outlandish. Further more I WAS IN SUPPORT OF BREAKING THE SET UP TILL REALEO HAD TO RUIN THE FUN. though I'm somewhat happy he did now knowing scum were more coordinated with day chat.

- explained.

- oh me, oh my, how dare I.

*plays tiniest violin*

[Aubrey]

I feel like we are in vote limbo with a lot of talk to show, but no wagons to actually analyze...I'm going to VOTE: Flub. I don't have a strong case against him, but I don't have a case for town him either. If one does have a town point for him, I'd encourage them to step forward and deliver one. Looking through the ISO, I'm seeing little to no pushes to understand players, but rather direct statements that place him where he wants/needs to be which I consider to be closer aligned to scum than town.

--

The few posts I see him questioning or pushing people for understanding is:

Spoiler:

501: which is just asking why Realeo isn't voting for Chick ( Chick, who had a few people already skeptical of her, but was also suspicious of FormerFish/soon to be Flub at the time) after sheeping Realeo's points against Chick.

625: but really he isn't trying to gain understanding here. I frankly don't even get his point here other than he's annoyed Moz was upset with him and suspected him for reasons he considered silly.

626: Which I don't count as an attempt to figure out someone's alignment as much as he just doesn't know what the heck I'm talking about and his name is in the line.

634: Feels more like a reminder stab at Moz. This question is basically dropped all togther after Chick briefly responds in a negative manner.

847 is an attack in the form of a question (which honestly, what is wrong with having a little fun and engaging with the person who suspects me?). swiftly followed by 850 & 851 which again is just attacks in the form of questions.

and lastly 863: which is just him asking for clarification for a small vague negative response I had against him.

so, if you read the spoiler, the few times he does question or push someone for understanding...they really are not much of an attempt to figure out one's alignment at all. Everything else has been direct statements, with little backing, to put him where he needs to be.

--

In short, I feel as if he is just methodically hopping from read to read rather than actively attempting to sort slots. The only time he has wavered so far was with Nos, and that was even a vague change but was still left open to be voted later down the road.

[Aubrey]

I can't sit here and tell you his meta. I know we have been in a game before, but we weren't exposed to one another for a decent amount of time. I died N1 and rarely do I heavily keep up with games thereafter when I die that early. Fitz and Uzi are the only two players I have any sense of play style on.

--

Since you have a meta read, share it. Particularly why it would more than likely come from a town Flub vs. a scum Flub.

[Aubrey]

That said, scumreading someone for pushing you is bad, Aubs. If all townies were obvious town this game would be done and dusted. You are not obvious town, I continue to go back and forth on you.

Do you really see me OMGUS'ing someone here...

&

Please quote me where I said I was obvious town. I said I was towny enough to cause waver.

[Aubrey]

I'll sit on what you said Realeo, but my knee jerk reaction was to not condone anything you just brought up for him. Goes back to: play scummy, get voted until I have reason to believe you town.

[Aubrey]

Uzi your other two scum reads were Key and Flub. I don't recall us hearing anything about those reads because I'm a brat who had to take center stage. Care to elaborate there?

Realeo also asked for someone to explain to him town IAI, since you'd kill him as scum, why not explain to Realeo why he is town for you?

[Aubrey]

I'm not forthcoming with them because I think they're scum and I always try my hardest focus on my strongest scum read.

Our lovely debate has come to a close basically. Unless you have something new to mention, it's a dead conversation and it seems like nobody is really following your push.

I also don't particular like explaining my scum reads right away because I like to see who is genuinely interested in my reasoning.

Good. It's been a minute, and I'm very interested.

There also still remains to be no valid suspicion expressed about IaI.

So you'd kill him for this? He has people who aren't town reading him...so I fail to see how this is towny enough for you to warrant a kill here. Or is there a better reason why you'd kill here over Chick?

[Aubrey]

For a game that is meant to be team-based, you really do work against that mechanic when you keep your cards to yourself you know.

Explain you town-read: "

no, I don't wanna. There isn't even a proper case, so why bother.

"
Explain your scum reads: "

no, only one.

"
Why would you kill IAI over Chick: "

I'd never kill chick!

"

[Aubrey]

Also @mjoll: why is my allo case better than the moz one? They seem equally bad to me.

Aubrey, how is this different than what you don't like about Realeo's solicitation?

I'm not understanding the question in relation to the quote. I don't heavily scumread realeo. He did something that was odd to me, and I inquired. I have yet to push a case against him. Hell, I even say he is a town lean for me. Where in the nine circles of hell are you getting this concept I heavily scum read the guy?

[Aubrey]

Are you trying to say that because we agreed on one thing, we should agree on everything?

I legitimately don't understand what the issue here is.

I do!

Aubrey needs scum reads and can't get a strong hold on any

Coming from the guy with only two scum reads (one of which that flipped town)?...

[Aubrey]

^

echo

echo

echo

--

@Flub: If you mean 853, then frankly it means you're holding me to standards that you yourself can't even follow.

How dare I question someone for being forthright

, when you yourself voted for a player who was exceedingly forthright and lost this life to it? Yeah.....

Not to mention Realeo isn't even a big interest for me right now. He did something that I considered odd, pointed it out, and he responded. See me voting him, and making a big call to action against him currently? No. Yet you're quick to jump the gun, and vote me over a simple observation and opinion I had. If anything Realeo was, and still is, a slight town lean that began to waver around the end of D1.

Moz got lynched because their transparent thoughts were really bad, not for being bad.

Transparency is important, no read is 100%

Difference of opinion I suppose. You read him as scum because of bad reasoning. Milj and I read him as town for transparency.

[Aubrey]

Are you trying to say that because we agreed on one thing, we should agree on everything?

I legitimately don't understand what the issue here is.

I do!

Aubrey needs scum reads and can't get a strong hold on any

Coming from the guy with only two scum reads (one of which that flipped town)?...

Excuse me, 3 scumreads (2 of which flipped town) and another one who is town (me!)

[Aubrey]

I question your genuineness, and 3 of your reads are wrong. Sorry...

[Aubrey]

established. you bore me

Oh dear, I bore him.

--

Realeo (3) - Allomancer, Mjollnir, IAI
Aubrey (2) - Flubbernugget, Lil Uzi Vert
Lil Uzi Vert (2) - Radical Rat, Keychain
Flubbernugget (2) - Aubrey, Nosferatu

Not Voting (2) - havingfitz, Realeo

--

So this is what the vote count should look like, if those who are pushing their respected targets would just vote already. @Realeo, where should you be placed? It'll be fun to see where Fitz decides to go, whenever he comes back to play.

[Aubrey]

@Nos: Maybe I'm wrong, but to me you're just voting Flub because he is supposedly null to you. Is there not a person you have scum suspicions towards, or do you in fact have some towards Flub? Who are you side-eyeing?

[Aubrey]

Can you give me something more than just "

I'm sheeping Chicks reads, and they maybe correct since she died

." <--- This feels more like a supplementary point that should be tagged in conjunction with something else that has you suspicious of him.

Maybe also expand the lens of who you suspect maybe scum. <--- on this point I don't expect in depth arguments for or against. Just generalizations.

[Aubrey]

Quick check in:

I don't see Realo not liking the 4 main wagons as a strong scum point. He's one of the main four, so he's not going to vote himself. He's already shed light on how he views flubber. I think I'm a wavering read? Maybe leaning town? I don't recall how he feels about Uzi, but I assume he isn't in love with the push or he would have said something by now since Uzi's been pushed before I asked him to place a vote... I think he also tried to get me to change my view on his slot during our bickering, which would lead me to think he was in fact townreading him?

[Aubrey]

Thought out of no where:

I also don't fully support IAI's view on turning ppl off at night. I see where he is coming from, but I don't see it as a smoking gun to someone's alignment currently. If anything, it is better used as an reason to maybe look at the slot a bit closer. I think knowing who they turned off, and taking a good look at both slot's performances, is the best way to judge a person based on their toggle off choices.

Now if we all agree to turn ppl on as town, and stick with it from here on out, then it can be used as a smoking gun tell. Of course there is an easy counter to that as scum, but it can tie their hands a bit.

Look at me! More spec talk noise Uzi!

[Aubrey]

The paranoia that I am being pocketed is real.

My pocket is all that I can give you for your birthday! Luckily it's a nice high-end town pocket, and not some off-brand scum pocket. Happy birthday dude!

Though now I read it again, he shows he was keeping up, because he mentions the fact that LUV hates his catchups.

If I read that right; he was promising to read, but not to expect him to comment for a bit. He mentions Uzi because I assume they have played together, and Uzi hates walls of text. Especially one like Fitzs.

--

Why the hell am I up at 3am...

[Aubrey]

Realeo, chill. Verdanna is not the prettiest font this world has ever seen, and I don't need it screamed in my face.

[Aubrey]

World peace.



--

Now chill. Screaming, calling ppl (and yourself) dumb, it's a bit much. Take a break, walk away, and go enjoy your birthday dude.

[Aubrey]

1) I'm voting for aubrey
2) My reasons actually make sense

I don't even know why you're voting Aubrey.

- I post silly shit from time to time.
- I slighted Realeo for apparently being transparent, so I must be scum after his town read. (though nothing is being said about the current reads on realeo)
- something about how I can't generate a proper scum read.

- oh, and I bore him.

[Aubrey]

Notice the attempt to deflect from this issue in 1085

LOL, deflect. Those were basically the reasons you were voting me,

minus the last one for kicks

, up to that point. Please, someone look back and tell me those were not his reasons. The word deflect and misrep are so over used that I don't think people even fully understand what they mean anymore.

Aubrey also seems very adamant about making me sure this is not the case whenever I say something.

"

He defended himself,

"

(as one should)

"

So he is trying super hard to persuade me he is town and only scum would do that!

" K. Everybody, barely. try. to defend. yourself. You're scum if you put anything above minimum effort forward.

For the record, you and Uzi are lost causes in persuading in my opinion. I'll have to naturally do something, or something will naturally have to happen, for you two to correct your read on me. Me trying to reason with the both of you isn't going to work. I only defend myself now, so that others don't fail to read me as you two are.

[Aubrey]

Notice the attempt to deflect from this issue in 1085

By all means; take your points you brought up against me, and compare them side by side to ones I wrote. The general points I brought up are the same damn things you've brought up.

--

Spoiler:

Me: I made a silly post with a gif and basically use it to ask Allo what's up
you: "Is this all you have time for"

me: I Question Realeo's actions
you: Are you REALLY questioning someone who is being transparent!?

me: say we are in vote limbo, make a case against flub
You: I'm supposedly grasping for scum reads

we: have a back and forth that ends with, I bore you because I don't like how your reads are generated.

- I post silly shit from time to time.
- I slighted Realeo for apparently being transparent, so I must be scum after his town read. (though nothing is being said about the current reads on realeo)
- something about how I can't generate a proper scum read.

- oh, and I bore him.

--

SO, how the F am I deflecting you in post 1085? Like, I'm kinda pissed you made me waste my time to even cover this. What are the damn points you feel I've deflected on?

If your refutation to a case nothing more than a restatement of it, yeah, it's probably a misrepresentation.

That's my whole refutation? K. I assume you're talking about this singular bottom quote

"He defended himself," (as one should) "So he is trying super hard to persuade me he is town and only scum would do that!

Tell me though. Isn't this basically the same exact retelling of your point located below?

Aubrey also seems very adamant about making me sure this is not the case whenever I say something.

All I really added to my retelling was that it is natural to defend cases against you, and that I don't believe this is really a scummy point one should entertain with the "

only scum would do that

". Why wouldn't a town player adamantly push back against accusations thrown their way? This really isn't a misrep as much as you are crying out for it to be seen as. Do I seriously need to be dry, bland, and boring as hell in order to get my points across all the time?

--

Also, there's a difference between defending yourself to understand another player's point of view, and defending yourself just to make noise

This could be reversed and be you constantly pushing a shitty case in order to make noise. "

There's a big difference between pushing a player to understand them, and pushing them to make noise.

" Like give me a break. You throw out a case against me, you get a response. MAFIA BASIC 101. You're not gonna talk shit, and not expect me to come back at it.

[Aubrey]

Aubrey for world peace!

......

......

......



--

Now I'm going to go eat a donut, because I only have time for posts like this currently

[Aubrey]

wow I just realized we have two days to come to a decision....We are probably now in critical mode. Donut on hold.

I feel as if the Realeo wagon is remaining strong with it's supporters, and is going to be a candidate for the lynch. All the other wagons we need to either jump ship and revisit later down the line, or really consider if we want them to be viable. the issue is, it's hard to argue which. I'd like to say I'm not a candidate? But I can't tell since nobody has weighed in between the arguments. I see a few people have flubber in their suspects list, but I think he also isn't going to be likely candidate currently today...? Again kinda hard to tell since only a few people have spoken about him.

Fitz is a unknown "wagon" currently.

And I can't tell if Uzi is a wavering wagon or not. If it is wavering, then I'd like to see where it bleeds off into because then it will force other wagons to become more viable. Otherwise I'd like to know if they are going to be similar to the Realeo wagon and dig in their heels.

--

^ This is probably a important conversation to have now, otherwise I don't know how this day phase will go.

--

Allo, place a vote. Uzi, place a vote. It's ridiculous that we still have people without votes somewhere. Though we probably know where Uzi's will go.

[Aubrey]

^

@MOD.

[Aubrey]

If I had to put money on which alignment Realeo would flip, I'd probably throw it town-sided after a ISO skim. Also helps that I'm not a fan for the reasons why he is being pushed.

[Aubrey]

feel good about the chances he flips scum

Feel like I've heard this before, LOL. I hope I'm wrong, but I'm still betting town. Mafia would be so much more interesting if it had a gambling feature.

[Aubrey]

:-/

Well if Realeo is going to threaten a self hammer, I don't see why we need to wait any longer with only a few hours till the lynch. VOTE: realeo

[Aubrey]

Um?

@mod?

[Aubrey]

I must be oblivious to something.

[Aubrey]

You saw it, and are just now voicing it? what did he say to slip exactly? VOTE: flubber

[Aubrey]

Who else saw this post?

[Aubrey]

GG Peeps. Fun game.

[Aubrey]

Bravo to the scum as well!

[Aubrey]

Would both of ya'll just chill out, and leave the other alone already. Ugh.

--

Again GG, all. Would enjoy playing with most of ya'll again. Hopefully we meet again in future games.