Open 463: Black Flag Nightless (Game Over)

[Thor665]

Vote: Piggy

Let's speed lynch her just for lulz.

[Thor665]

Indeed, I'm already fermenting some honey, so time is a wasting.

[Thor665]

I know, but everyone else is lurking, so they're allied scum ducking the wagon. It is known.

[Thor665]

Why were you just kidding about the v/la?

[Thor665]

I know whose she meant. I was questioning the motivation behind bringing it up and why she did it.

[Thor665]

Why bring up the v/la then?

[Thor665]

UNVOTE:

[Thor665]

^^^
That.

Why unvote?

[Thor665]

It's like a contest between Piggy and Absta over who can look most scummy.

[Thor665]

It's funny, because I would have answered 'no' to the second question because I thought he was misrepping the pig.

I'd like to hear intent to hammer.

[Thor665]

@Equi - she's voting you, what do you think she thinks of it?

[Thor665]

It was scummy that you didn't re-vote.

[Thor665]

@Thor - Are you implying you think Equinox is scummy?
Why should I have re-voted?

1. I'm not implying it in any way at all. i will say I don't think he looks townish.

2. Why did you random vote in the first place?

[Thor665]

Scratch that. What do you think of Voided?

Leaning townish - if Piggy flips scum I'll call him obv. town.

Piggy wagon is fine. Her reaction to getting voted in #16 is awkward and her answer to Thor's question about why she brought up the V/LA in the first place (#23) is contrived and the fact that she over-explains the answer to what seems to me a simple question reads a bit like panicked defensiveness to me. #39 is also a pretty awkward reaction.

Are you familiar at all with Piggy's town game?

[Thor665]

@Absta - You also apparently don't vote people you think are scummy, so clearly we have different methods. What of it?

[Thor665]

Our Piggy meta research is still ongoing. We've read two of her scum games (namely this one and this one) and they suggest she's playing to her scum meta here (re: the awkwardness in her posting/reactions), but she has a recently finished town game I want to dig into.

Remind me how by reading only scum games you become aware of someone's scum meta.
I slept through that part of class.

[Thor665]

@Voided - don't make me have to start imagining you in a dunce cap. I'm doing that with Cerulean already and I don't need to expand my disregard of others.

[Thor665]

That seems re-actively offensive to me.

Again, how can scum meta be 'suggested' when you actually, as of yet, have no awareness what her scum meta is?

[Thor665]

Cerulean (Empire + Tammy)

Also - feel free to let me know which head I'm talking to. I don't know Empire but I seem to recall thinking Tammy knew that water flowed downhill.

[Thor665]

Why does my laid backness scare you?

Also, also - if all you are is a lazy troll, wanna replace out if you're town so I have a better chance of winning?

[Thor665]

Do you have any experience besides reverse mafia to base that call on?
Also, how would you say I'm playing differently here than in Reverse Mafia/other game?

[Thor665]

The motivation behind your posts here seems forced, like you're asking questions, but you don't really care about their answers.

So I'm laid back because I don't seem to care about the answers to my questions?
How do you conclude that?

[Thor665]

@Piggy - do you have a town game where you were lynched?

[Thor665]

b) is she trying to make others comfortable? There is no Town motivation in helping others find their feet during RVS.

Someone is seeing what Thor is working at though

Still, this quoted bit - kind of a reach, isn't it?

[Thor665]

p-edit: Thor, are you trying to implying that I'm distracting town to make my scum partner look townier?

I don't think I've even come close to saying this.

Also, I'm scum because you're reading my posts in a scummy sounding internal voice? Try reading them in Morgan Freeman's voice and get back to me.
Why not for my blatant quick wagon of you? Or does that not look scummy?

Thor - if you don't learn how to play nicely, I will sit you two on opposite sides of the room and take your hammer away from you. You say that my other head was reactively offensive to you, but you fail to acknowledge that you claimed that you were fitting him with a dunce cap. Thor, I expect more from you, you have two scummies and should know better

There is a difference between offense 'giving insult' and offense 'attacking' last I checked.
Are you denying the immediate attack to an otherwise normal question?

Also Thor regarding your question to piggy in Post 75 would you say your playstyle is largely different as town than scum?

Since I actively try to emulate my town play as scum - none that I am aware of...also none that anyone has ever been able to show me, because then I would have adjusted. I've never had to adjust.

Strongest town read remains N

Why?

[Thor665]

I see someone who said they had read scum meta and had a town game they wanted to dig into, then you claim they weren't doing things properly because they were only reading scum games (even though they said they were going to read a town game) and that you were fitting them with a dunce cap. You were a bit insulting, and people don't like to be insulted. I see him reacting to that.

It wasn't a normal question, and I think if you read it objectively you'll see how you provoked him and how he responded to you in kind. You were being a bit condescending, you know you were, if you're honest with yourself. ]/quote]
1. I was absolutely condescending.
2. You don't seem to grok what he was saying.

Your other head said he'd read two scum games and had a town game he was going to read.
And then said Piggy was playing like her scum meta.
Meta he couldn't possibly understand or make a call on until he had read town meta and compared it to the scum meta.
So...do you want to go back and read what I said again and ask why it was such an odd question to ask?

3. I may be being condescending again here, it's a character flaw I get when I'm right.

Then what's the point of the question?

It doesn't matter if I think it's even possible for Piggy to grok a meta difference with my play.
She *claims* she did so and therefore I want to understand what she's seeing so I can decide if it's valid town hunting for tells, or derp scum just tossing gak against a wall.
It's a pretty complicated and intense bit of scumhunting for motivations...y'know, that thing you think is a town tell when other people do it once but not when I do it constantly?

And you prove once again that you're not reading entire posts. In the beginning I agreed with my other head about his line of questioning to piggy. It reads to us as genuinely trying to determine her thought process.

I don't see it as any better than half a dozen other examples of the same thing thus far this game - why does it stick out as special to you?

What do you think a out sixty's case on piggy?

Speaking of not reading
I already said I liked it, but cited something I thought he was reaching on and asked for clarification.
You can find it easy enough - I quote him when I did it and did so shortly after he posted his case. Probably my very next post after his case, I'd wager.

[Thor665]

Well derp on me.

I say it's all still legible - so deal.

[Thor665]

Did you read what he said? It is why he said "suggests" because even though it was similar, I had pointed out a possible town game that showed a similarity of her behavior.

I personally think you're trying to get me to put more meaning into that 'suggests' than there really is.
Counter question, if by 'suggests' he means 'We have yet to have done anything to make the read legit' why even mention it at all?

So, would you like to go back and read the part of the post you missed? Namely that he's planning on completing the task your chiding him for not doing and tht he made that clear?

If you believe your town and sum game are indistinguishable I'd like to know what purpose it serves to ask someone if they think you're playing any differently than you did in your other game.

I already answered this - what part didn't you grok?

Did you miss the part where I'm leaning town on you?

And less than N, yes.

Oh no, I read, I was hoping you'd go into a bit more detail about what you actually liked about it.

I actually accused him of sheeping me slightly, so...?

[Thor665]

I didn't know her alignment in that game until this afternoon. We were not spoiled in the qt, so I couldn't be sure she was town. So, while we discussed this game and talked about piggy, I told him that there was a possibility it was matching her town game but wouldn't know for sure until this game ended.

Why didn't he say that then?

Unvote: Piggy
Vote: Cerulean

[Thor665]

@Soul - oh, by the way, thanks for giving me a new 'Thor is Thor' call. 'Thor is normal' I like it because it's the same thing yet amusingly different.

[Thor665]

Link the game pl0x.

[Thor665]

I think your Voided lean makes sense.
I don't grok the Equi lean at all.

[Thor665]

Counter question, if by 'suggests' he means 'We have yet to have done anything to make the read legit' why even mention it at all?

I thought it was a stupid question? If you think you're town and scum game are indistinguishable its leading and u productive. You're trying to jump on someone, howl and whine. That's obvious. I want you to stop doing it because it doesn't help town.

I don't know how else to explain to you that it's not an attack to howl and whine (because, let's be honest, I'd admit it if all I wanted to do was make the other player feel derp) but rather a question to seek motivation.
Why is this so hard for you?
Why can you understand other motivation questions but not this one?

So, your ego is fractured? You may not remember but you've fooled me before. I read you town as hell when you replaced into experimental; I don't easily forget being duped. I'm reading you different enough that you're leaning town, but most town...he'll no.

So I'm a lesser town read than N because, even though I'm doing more townish things I concern you more?

I realize that you like being sheeped...take off your Sheeping blinders and tell me what you think of their case.

You've asked me this before.
I LIKE THE BULK OF THE CASE.
Does it sink through now?

Still, this quoted bit - kind of a reach, isn't it?

In the sense of scumPig twirling her mustache and hatching an evil plot to

bring out the comfy chair

in the early pages, yes. In terms of showing it as a facile excuse for her actions, no.

If you'd just called it a bad excuse I'd be more on a wavelength with you.
But you said 'why would scum want people to feel comfortable' which means you *were* applying the mustache twirl to her.
Discuss.

We don't follow Thor's vote on Cerulean. The "meta" fixation ITT is not very interesting to this half, at least, so maybe there's some context that I'm totally missing, but etc.

I am not using meta as part of my case on Cerulean - I am using their claimed methods.
You can get a sounded out case after I'm done rattling a cage, but at least don't act confused about what I'm doing, that should (hopefully) be beneath you.

Actually, now that I think about it, it might be worth a look to see if Thor665 gets into ego wars as scum.

He does, it is a null tell.

Thank you for that though - for some reason this always seems to come as a shock to some people.

[Thor665]

Hurm. Looking over stuff Cerulean is actually obv. town unless Piggy is scum.
Cerulean can still answer my questions though because the slot strikes me as pedantic and it will amuse me.

Unvote: Cerulean
Vote: Voided

Let's do a Piggy counter wagon for lulz.

[Thor665]

Equi voting piggy to L-1 with minimal explanation or force. That clear enough?

~Mehdi

Except for it being a scumtell - yes.

[Thor665]

Any reason for voting Voided?

Because I'm not voting you.

Oh, and I did read your posts in Morgan Freeman's voice... you're still scummy.

Obvious lie is obvious.

[Thor665]

I should be more annoyed than I am. But then it's Thor, so...

Thor is normal.

I still want something beyond "lol counterwagon", though. Otherwise I can just say the same thing about Absta <_<. (Hint: This means that is terrible reasoning)

What does this have to do with Absta?
I'll toss in 'beard' if you like. Heck, I'll toss in this quoted reaction if you like that too. Happy?

No opinion on any of my other opinions?

[Thor665]

If the first did you not see how helping a mislynch (since I have piggy as a town read) happen is scummy? And how continuing to joke a decent amount when getting to the point of near lynching someone isn't good either?

Have you ever played with Voided scum/town before, and does this read take any such experience into consideration?

[Thor665]

What's so hard to understand? Voting me and saying "lolcounterwagon" wouldn't get me anywhere for switching from PIggy to Absta without reasoning behind it. Why should you be any different?

I don't know, I just am.

As for the other part, I admit I haven't looked over your posts with a fine comb.

Uh-huh.

Let's lynch Absta or Voided.

[Thor665]

You answer was functionally 'barely know what I'm talking about and am outsourcing to OS' so I was waiting for him as I thought you asked me to.

[Thor665]

Is that a general scum tell or specific to absta?

General.

You either believe an RVS vote is worth something or you do not.
If you make an RVS vote then, I'll go out on a limb and claim that you think they are worthwhile for some purpose.
If you have a reason to remove an RVS vote...then normal thought flow shoul dhave you place it out again immediately to fulfill the initial purpose.
Hence, lack of a new vote suggests there was no purpose to the initial vote beyond putting out an initial vote.
Hence: scummy in general.

I've got a lot to say on my reads but I'm going to wait like a page or two more for more direct interactions in case anything changes after a bit of talk.

Well returning that do you think meta is needed for all reads? And how is two town games of him 0 knowledge of him (absta's meta is from a single town game while piggy is from two town and one scum so neither is much different).

I think meta is neither needed or unneeded for reads. If you use meta great, if you don't, great.
So you're now claiming you do have solid meta read knowledge of Voided and are using that to discern your read? How is that working?

[Thor665]

Except I didn't.

And some knowledge is no knowledge with meta - you either have knowledge you will claim awareness of or you don't. You are citing him as scummy for things I have seen him do as town and wanted to see how you defended it - and you backed off. I don't see why that matters with your Absta and Piggy commentary.

[Thor665]

Why is being clueless a town tell?

[Thor665]

I feel like when you first used the word clueless you meant "not knowing how to play the game"
Now you are clearly stating "not knowing people's alignments"

Which did you mean, and go back to 167 and walk me through that last bit again to make sure I grok it?

[Thor665]

@Soul - and I explained why I brought up the one and not the others. So do something with it or no.

Answering someone's question, then immediately following with a reactionary question that may or may not really do all that much in terms of scumhunting, it just seems like the appropriate thing to say like,

This was commenting about how he didn't know alignments?

[Thor665]

I feel like I'm talking to a wall here.

Well I know. You'd be calling it derp derp derp until smurfette knocked on your door, but it didn't look to me like a motivation question.

It's not hard for me to understand at all, and I didn't mean to derail your conversation with piggy, but I was trying to understand your motivation for a question which didn't seem like it would have a useful conversation given that I don't think (and you don't either) that your scum and town games are all that different.

1. I've even flat out explained the motivation behind the question.
2. I've also flat out explained how whether or not I think there's a difference in my meta doesn't change the purpose of the question.
3. Get your other head to look at it, if they can't grok it either then I'll bother to explain it again.

I know you liked the case. I wanted to know what about it made you like it. I wanted a little more detail.

I'll try again.
I said the case was a sheep of mine for the most part and that I liked it. I'm not sure how much clearer I can get then by saying I felt the case was sheepy to where I was going...I mean, that's a pretty intense call.
For anything else you better ask a more pointed and specific question.

I don't think I've ever called you overbearing.
You're assuredly pedantic.

[Thor665]

@Jesse - I grok that this looked like a playstyle thing - that's what confusing me.
Why would someone using a playstyle you describe as of questionable scumhunting merit help prove that they don't know people's alignments?

@Cerulean - of course the case is shallow, it's built off RVS, how magical and deep can it really get? What does it being shallow have to do with anything? The question is whether or not it makes sense and shows scumhunting motivation from Sixty and scummy motivation from Piggy.

[Thor665]

@Thor specify where you said why you brought it up only on him. I do want to know have you ever played with town piggy or town absta (if no then I think I understand).

Not counting at least one ongoing - to the best of my awareness: no.

I'm not really interested in how much merit someone's scum hunting ability holds. I'm much more interested in why they're going about using that method.

I get that and am all about it.
But that doesn't explain how you made the connection - which is what I asked you about.
To re-state: How did his cruddy scumhunting style make you go 'yes, this man doesn't know anyone's alignment!'

Also, when I'm playing nice with someone they don't usually call me pedantic.

What does me being rude do to affect a claim that you're playing nice?

Shallow means I don't think they were actually assessing piggy's motivations. Why would you build a case so son out of rvs without actually trying to determine alignment? Cases make sense all the time, but the case doesn't show Scumhunting motivation from my point of view, rather it shows determination to appear as if scumhunting.

How does it show the appearance of scumhunting but not scumhunting?



Note to self - Post 206

I'm tapping out, I'll finish catchup later.

[Thor665]

Next you do know who thor is right? I called thor normal for a reason. He's a player most are paranoid for so treating it like it's a big deal is exaggerating quite a bit (or you've never played with the mastermind named thor).

~Mehdi

Oh you

Though, question, and I apologize ahead of time. But have we ever played a game together?

Are we sharing names of alts, or not so much?

Answering someone's question, then immediately following with a reactionary question that may or may not really do all that much in terms of scumhunting, it just seems like the appropriate thing to say like,

This was commenting about how he didn't know alignments?

Do you like to try to ask questions that have absolutely no relevance to what you're quoting?

If you were actually reading you would realize that there is relevance there.
Though I agree it doesn't look like there's a connection - which is why I'm asking about it.
I'll admit I'm annoyed that Jesse is shifty in answering it. But the fact that Jesses isn't acting confused by it *probably* should have been a clue. Why didn't you notice that the question makes perfect sense? Are you skimming, or just not reading at all?

I don't know, I just am.

...That's it? Seriously?

Remind me how this is scummy.

Thor seemed insulted I wasn't considering him the towniest person here.

I kinda was - it was very derpy of you. Though mostly because somehow N was more towny than me.

Oh my strong town read on N is gone. I saw him posting today elsewhere and he didn't show up here.

At least you're trending back towards sanity.

This puppyhalf is seriously /)___(\ this close to barking orders and telling people to shut up and vote who we say to vote. It can only be good for getting the game to go someplace, not to mention everyone's ability to take giant mansions built from quote walls and mud on every page.

Since I had to stop and think about who you'd even push on - I actually think this is a good idea. Maybe you should shout out a top two scum reads? That would be sexy.
Also, is the Absta case still the same as when you first made a case on him?

It doesn't look to be assessing motivations or alignment. It's more here's what this post says and it's scummy, but not does this post demonstrate scum or scum motivation.

The interesting thing is I get THE EXACT OPPOSITE read off it. I feel he *is* applying motivation search to the tells. Could we maybe get both of your heads to knock together and explain this read to each other in QT and make sure you're on the same page and then explain it to me in one post with both sets of thoughts in it?

@Piggy
@Jesse

Here's a clue - both of your votes are utterly useless right now. You better start selling those cases like champs or should move to a more useful wagon.

[Thor665]

There are zero wagons that have any momentum, literally every wagon is at a standstill. Not just those two.

And yet, weirdly, they're still the two weakest.
Funny how that works.

Thor: Does any of that make sense to you?

In what way?
I skipped it because Cerulean is obv. town so I don't see much value in reading a case on them.
You should tell me your read on Voided though.

[Thor665]

@Jesse - You should vote him then - then someone will be getting somewhere.

[Thor665]

New page answers prayers - thanks new page!

[Thor665]

If that's the case (and this could be opened up to anyone who can answer) is Tammy familiar with Thor?

We were in Experimental Mafia together - wouldn't surprise me if there were others, I seem to have very bad recollection of most players in older games.

Cerulean is still obv. town for that Piggy meta discussion though.

[Thor665]

2) It's not as easy as you think. In my experience, people either conform to the set of characteristics/playstyle that defines their meta or will awkwardly try to change it in a way that come across as forced or unnatural.

I think it's actually silly easy to change or break meta. The challenge comes in keeping enough sane meta to enable you to prove you're town, and enough meta you can bust at appropriate moments for lulzworthy wins.

...not that I...plot this...ever...

In other news - Ceru is town anyway, meta be damned, so...?

You have a read on Voided? I wouldn't mind getting another vote on Voided.

[Thor665]

Actually I haven't used any meta talk (though I claimed my case was meta free) and no one has asked me for the read yet - which I always find funny.
You seem really focused on pushing this one through, and I don't think I could even describe your Cerulean case right now - are you sure you've got one?

[Thor665]

Above is @Jesse

@Ceru - I'm not so sure on Sixty, but with all my experiece with them thus far (one) I may or may not be any good at reading them. Personally I'm thinking they're town here, but it's just beard at the moment.

[Thor665]

Oh I know you haven’t used meta talk, it doesn’t really seem like you’ve used much talk at all which is why I’m interested to see what you have to say. And making sure its sans meta. That way, you know, I can see you’ve got a mind focused in this game. And I know you couldn’t describe my case on Cerulean because you didn’t even read it.

So you're saying that if I present a reasoned and logical case I'll prove that my reads are awesome and that Ceru is town?
And, what, you can't give a two sentence summation of the Ceru case? It must be bad then.

Are you sure you’ve got a case on Voided? Because right now I only see 2/3 with a real case on the leading wagon and you’re not one of them.

I think my case on Voided was called 'beard' at some point.
I've done quite well by 'beard' cases in the past, even have won two bets over them - so I'm not sure how that doesn't count, it's got to be as solid as anything in he wiki. If I typed up an article would that make it more sheepable?

[Thor665]

More like if you present a reasonable, logical case it’ll suggest that you’re pro-town. As is reading other players’ cases if you’re going to demand them.

I just want you to sum it up succinctly. I know you've pointed out lots of little things that you are calling scummy, but I want the broad strokes, big picture, succinct case.
I really do feel that if you can't say why someone is scum in under 2 sentences than they're probably not scum.
You've been providing examples of evidence to support your case.
I don't think you've actually written out the case.
Think thesis statement.
Cerulean is scum because she has a blue avatar and has lied about the color of Thor's underwear in Post 1284.
Something like that. Simple, yeah?

But a real case that you can quote would be more pro-town.

You were just able to quote my case though...
Okay, here's a more normal tell for you - you see that point where Voided answered your question about Emp?
Yeah, y'know, the one that *proves* he's reading these posts as you defend him from me?
Y'know, the guy who has been voting him for a while while Voided has not even so much as burped in my direction?
That's now my case.
Sheep me?

[Thor665]

Yeah, y'know, the one that *proves* he's reading these posts as you defend him from me?
Y'know, the guy who has been voting him for a while while Voided has not even so much as burped in my direction?

How is a vote not more than a burp?

Hurm, I'd forgotten that.
Okay, we'll go back to just 'beard' for now then.

Besides, ever since I did vote you I haven't seen you try to tell me otherwise, so unless you also have some bigger case hidden out among your posts beyond my vote, your case is laughably small and laughably terrible.

In my defense for that - you actually never pressured me, never asked anyone else to vote me, and then switched your vote to Absta, so I'm not sure why it should hang heavy on me.

Exaggeration. The vote on Thor was pressure to get him to actually do more that say "lolcounterwagons" when voting me. His continued avoidance of doing so is why he's a scumread to me now.

You honestly think there was pressure happening there?

[Thor665]

Perhaps I was remiss in pushing the point, but the call for votes was going to happen after you explained.

No it wasn't - you voted me after I explained.

Apparantly not <_<. I do know that I've stated before that your entire case was "lolcounterwagons," though. I guess you were ignoring that?

I responded to that at the time you did it.

You still have a chance to explain yourself.

And I have.

[Thor665]

Voided: Claim in your next post.

Do you see an intent to hammer anywhere? I don't.

Can't tell who is derpier...

[Thor665]

Perhaps I was remiss in pushing the point, but the call for votes was going to happen after you explained.

No it wasn't - you voted me after I explained.

If you'll recall, I wanted more elaboration that just "lolcounterwagon"--elaboration that you refused to give either because you didn't want to or because there wasn't anything you could give, more or less. That was why I voted you.

I totally agree.
Which is why you saying the call for votes was going to happen 'after' I explained is obviously poppycock.

you're still sticking with the "lolcounterwagon/beard" shtick?

Why, did I change somewhere

[Thor665]

Exactly.

[Thor665]

So, to clarify - I can't tell who is derpier.
Him for asking.
Or you for refusing to do it till a hammer intent appears.

[Thor665]

lol @ taking that seriously

(so it's OPTION C thor's derpy for thinking I was in any way serious but Voided is still the derpiest)

Good cover story.

[Thor665]

Presumably you think we're confirmed town if it's a cover story, though? Right?

I'm not sure how that works.
But, yeah, sure, run with that belief.

[Thor665]

If he flips scum I'm obv. town.

Just saying.

[Thor665]

Well, thank you for proving you don't grok relational tells.

[Thor665]

Hitchhiker's Guide.

[Thor665]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWmF_2u-9nk

[Thor665]

I would say that will depend on the flip - I currently lean yes though.

[Thor665]

...yes.

[Thor665]

So. Cerulean you should hammer for real. Voided's not online so this charade is pointless.

Thanks for defeating the purpose I was having to dance with Sixty.

Now I need to wash my hands for no reason.

[Thor665]

@Sicty - strategic lynch to avoid being top counter?

[Thor665]

Still really hoping that Sixtys blitz hammer on Voided was a gambit rather than a jump at a mslynch.

Your worst case scenario should tag us 1 scum for 1 mislynch - I'll do that for the rest of the game if we can get it.

[Thor665]

See, that would have worked as a reaction test if only you'd been quiet.

[Thor665]

Delighted!

We don't need to be alive to win this, and Vi won't be around much (if at all) for the next week plus.

But aren't you one of your town reads of not lynching?

[Thor665]

I really don't think you'd have been online discussing 'okay quick hammer' there at all. Really think it was just a Vi alone decision.

This feels kind of like a knockout to me.

[Thor665]

I know you added Jesse...but if he's worth adding so it's o'tay you are lynched, then why not mention him first time through?

[Thor665]

I'm not sure how dramatically stupid it is.

The hammer sucked monkey testes. That said, the play is fairly reminiscent of their play in Reverse Mafia which was a not dissimilar setup mentality.
I'll agree the explanation leaves me feeling skeevy towards them though - specifically how awesome their death might be and also that they didn't really try to get other people on board with their plan *prior* to enacting it (besides a maybe if you squint a bit - semi conversation with me about absta...sorta) I think that's the part that bugs me - as a town plan they should have gotten people on board and *then* quickhammered.

[Thor665]

their SUPER TOWN PLAN relies on their reads being sheeped after death or something. when if they were town they'd see that acting like a Smurfing parama wannabe is not a way to get listened to. I don't think they'd have failed to account for the damage the quickhammer would have caused if town and voided was town.

No, I agree with that - I even said as much which is why I found the play skeevy.

Just Smurfing lock this already!

It's nightless you silly boy.
You have an opinion on Sixty?

RE: slow thread lock

This is nothing, I was in a mcqueen game once (and never again) where two twilights in a row were over a week long.
We referred to it as 'the derp phase'
I should research who came up with that and give them a wiki page...

[Thor665]

Okay, so it was me - but Arugula started it.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p4220077

[Thor665]

Oh wait, snap, it was AP - AP did it!

[Thor665]

mcqueen is literally the first mod I've black listed, and I've played in Espeo games methinks.
But, total site flake and imbalanced build on top of shoddy attendance (plus, though town didn't realize this, a Day 1 name claim would have caught scum and confirmed town off just the opening fluff post) it does not fill one with joy.
It's still my best scum win ever but...

[Thor665]

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Derp_Phase

I may be in it already.

[Thor665]

Vote: N

[Thor665]

I don't know. I'll check and get back to you.

[Thor665]

I think you're town, so I'd rather not.

[Thor665]

Thor reasoning behind the vote? In your words I don't grok it.

Am I allowed to just say 'beard' again?
You should sheep me though.

I was starting to think the third could be Thor, because he hadn't called me scummy yet (he always seems to - okay, in the two completed games we have together he did), but he just voted for me so that's all okay.

I'd hammer Sixty, but I want them to come in and make some more incriminating posts and hopefully out their buddies for real.

[Thor665]

So 513 looks awesome to you?

[Thor665]

or b) he’s your scum partner.

[Thor665]

I mean there were two options. If you don't like one of them pick the other.

Explain how it makes any sense at all - I'm probably just being dumb.

[Thor665]

Nut the N wagon is gaining steam, look at how fascinating it is.

[Thor665]

I'll basically echo Soul's question.

Also, I'll admit the theory of 'If N is scum he wouldn't want to suspect Thor unless Thor is also scum' is not exactly compelling programming.

It also ignores my play...but maybe I'm being too Thor right now.

[Thor665]

So...it's a null tell?

[Thor665]

Do it.

[Thor665]

Yeah, Absta is likely town.

Are we lynching N yet - feels like we were lynching N.

[Thor665]

Obviously they'll be in to do it any second.
You're probably just scared to let them.

[Thor665]

Could someone vote Sixty for a minute. I just want to research something and would prefer they remain at L-1.

Trololololol.

[Thor665]

Or vote N. That is also an option.

[Thor665]

Thor, what is your opinion of Cerulean's post 82? More specifically their comments towards you.

I thought the comments were mostly silly and pedantic.
Sadly - par for the course with Tammy.
That post is part and parcel of why they're obv. town though, so I was happy enough to get it.

Do you have any other feelings about this general reasoning?

Other than what I said about it at the time? No.

It took you three minutes to go from "I'll give you a case about Ceru.let me finish probing them, sixty" to "they are obvtown?

Yes.
What of it?

Weren't you the one criticizing Sixty about not understanding a point you were trying to make about Cerulean? This is pretty hypocritical in my mind since Jesse states explicitly "cluesless about everybody".

I don't think you know what hypocrisy is - but feel free to run with this for a while, I'm curious to see where you end up.

Whydidn't you asnwer the first part of the post?

Because it was silly to ask when I'd literally just done so.

What was this answering?

I'd like to see this answered as well.

Why, you think Ceru is scum?

Thor have there been any scumgames recently where you've been pressured in?

Define "pressure"?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=23499

Literally just won this one while this game was going (indeed, concurrent with posts you're quoting, so I reckon it has to be about as close as one could get mentality wise). Had three days in a row of lylo. Had me at L-1 a couple times. That work?

Thor why not vote Sixty? Why is absta town?

1. People have already asked me that and I've already answered.
2. You think that replace out looks scum motivated?

[Thor665]

I've called him townish and town in two separate moments on two separate days.
I do not claim to grok his meta though.

[Thor665]

No other reasoning Even though Cerulean used a line that you posted in your Awards and Metagame topic? About you being sketchier despite doing similar things as another player just because you are Thor?

What other reasoning would you expect? I already called it bad and unbalanced, so...?

I was talking about how you think they were intelligent enough to not ask that question when in my mind you did a similar thing with regards to Jesse. So yes I think that is hypocritical. Calling out another player for something and then doing it yourself.

I called out someone for asking for clarification of what someone else (or myself) meant?
I call shenanigans - quote it to prove me wrong.

@Ceru - sorry I did that for yesterday, but I wanted to actually see who would be interested in a counterwagon. Jesse bit, but I wanted to then see how Sixty would respond - but, yeah, he went for power lurk to avoid tells.

Vote: Jesse

I think Piggy and N are both likely town.

[Thor665]

I actually find both of the last two posts here terrible.

[Thor665]

Yeah. I think Jessie would probably not think a counterwagon was viable, so don't find that scummy. Did Jessie find N scummy Day 1, though? That'd be at least somewhat interesting.

All I know is Jesse doesn't find N scummy today - which is also an interesting switch.

[Thor665]

What caused the shift then?

[Thor665]

@Piggy - correct me if I'm wrong, but your scum case on me is that I pushed "confirmed town" instead of pushing your lynch? Because I would think you would find someone starting a counterwagon to you to be the definition of a town tell.

[Thor665]

@Soul - as long as we're requesting things, I don't think I'm aware of why you think I'm scum either. The best I have is you think I didn't help vote Sixty and that's why the wagon took so long...is that it?

[Thor665]

Would you like me to eat that case alive now, or wait for you to expand on it and eat it alive then?

[Thor665]

Are you kidding?
Did you even read his case?

[Thor665]

a. day 2 and day 3 voting with the n vote connecting with the second reason while the jesse vote being on one thing (voting n over sixty when they were being a very likely lynch is a scum tell how) plus us having jesse as a town read,

b. 640 doesn't really respond to point in 638,

c. Sheer amount of beard pushing when it comes to some reads with minimal other reasoning. I know you can use logic but in this game you can say beard plus a short reason and it's working,

d. Read flow has problems. Why is piggy town? You unvoted her and voted someone else but after unvoting them you just kept on elsewhere without ever really going back and explaining how she's town. Absta to a lesser extent since before his replace out you didn't mention him much and it was usually more not understanding him or finding him a bit scummy (unless the replace out by itself is enough to go from null/scum to town). Vote voided after little mention of him with the main scum mention was my scum read on him made sense, and linked to the next one

e. Lack of true force with each scum read. Right now you're suspecting jesse. Before n. Didn't really like sixty but stayed on n. Both you've not really pushing hard (n I realize was related to being a counter wagon but that doesn't nullify this). The only person you've fosed a lot and pushed quite a bit for their lynch after the first couple of pages was voided who even there wasn't really your lynch. I'd expect you to being pushing and leading more lynch wise, but that's lacking. Remind me who you're scum reads are and how you're currently pushing a lot for their lynch?

a and b naturally being added after OS's wall, but the other 3 being the main ones (d being the most important I want an explanation to)

.

I'll start with the important stuff and move onto the less important stuff than.

D. No, your ability to read my read flow has problems. You are correct that I unvoted my RVS and voted someone else...I'm not sure why I'm supposed to explain it. Heck, I explaine dthe unvote as much as the initial vote...so? Also, you're showing how badly you're reading me because I called Absta town prior to even the end of Day 1, much less when I did it around his replace out. Your last sentence I'd be happy to respond to - but I honestly don't know what it's saying or accusing me of...meh.

E. I love that you don't seem to grok why I pushed on N like I did. I barely even feel I should need to justify this until you actually do enough work to grok maybe why I was pushing on him in an odd way - I was even dropping funny hints about it to Ceru when she was grumping at me. My current scum read is Jesse, I'm pushing for his lynch by voting him and asking others to vote him and explaining why I found him scummy from yesterday and the transition to today - I didn't exactly do it hyper subtle either, I kinda flat out stated all that information when i voted him...so...?

C. That seems an idnicment on other people more than me. If no one asks for my reasoning other than what I provide that's not my fault.

B. This is Point E again (which was really point D again, and is best summed up as 'Soul don't grok Thor's scumhunting') but the short answer is 640 *is* an answwer to 638 insomuch as I didn't really buy that you were so bad as to be unable to figure out what the N push was about.

A. Hey, look, it's kinda Point B/E/D all over again. But now you're tossing in that Jesse is a town read and that us suspecting him makes you so very sad. Okay...so? Inherently that's not scummy, it's generally just known as 'disagreeing'. All the rest is, again, you now seeing what I did on Day 2 (and, seriously, after my Day 1 comments...kind of a clue, yeah?)


Man, super tough case of multiple and totally unique points that isn't just "I don't like how Thor hasn't explained his reads and am very put off by the transition of his votes on Day 2-3"

Better type up a ton of supporting evidence for this masterful and multi-layed case.

Then you can vote Jesse.

[Thor665]

Vaguely saying it's completely destroyable when one of the points is you've been over using gut instead of reason just adds to that reason some.

~Mehdi

I've now specifically destroyed it.
Hope that helps.

Also 'beard'.

[Thor665]

I feel like that post alone should explain why this lynch should happen.

[Thor665]

A plus means something. Go back to how is it scummy for someone to be interested in a wagon different then sixty when it was clear they were being lynched.

You implied it and suddenly shifting reads were scumtells when applied to me, so I'd reckon they'd count on Jesse in your mind too.
I'm probably being silly though.

B sure.

Huzzah.

C so how far has that gotten you with getting people to agree with your reads? Voided you gave reasoning too and others did and was lynched. What about other reads?

I'd say it's doing pretty well so far.
What other reads? Who are you claiming I haven't offered a read on yet? Because I'm pretty sure I've done everyone in the game.

D try quoting were you suspected voided much before the vote. Or were you gave reasons why piggy was town before you said you wanted a counter wagon for her. That's the problem. Those are lacking/minimal.

1. I never said I did, so...?
2. Quote where I did with the vote, why expect me to need to provide reads for unvoting a read I had never provided reads to support?
3. Why is that a problem?

Thor for e I said I realized n was a vote to test for things, but that still leaves the hole of where were you leading and pushing scum reads hard. Day 2 lacks that when you remember the reasoning for voting n, jesse you're attacking more now but before that outside of a really short reason given for voting him (and I'm curious how many people you'd expect to follow you when you just say he's scum for being interested in another wagon then sixty that day), and then voided who did push. I just expect you to be leading more and focusing more on scum reads actually being lynched.

1. I don't think it does leave a hole - I was certainly pushing the N lynch harder than anyone else pushed any lynch besides Sixty - and only Ceru was pushing that case harder than I was pushing N.
2. I suspect a fair number will follow me now that he's flopping around like he currently is. Do you not find that an odd reaction from him? Go look at his play and suspicion this game day and let me know your thoughts.
3. In what way? You agree Day 1 I pushed a lynch (and I did so fairly aggressively, albeit with no case) then Day 2 I pushed a lynch (and was the 2nd hardest pusher of the entire day...and admitted I was doing it for show, so...yeah) and now today I would certainly say I've been one of the more aggressive (personally I would say *most* but could accept it as being argued) pushers of his wagon of choice.

So...how much more do I need to be pushing for you to be happy with the amount of pushing I'm doing?

[Thor665]

Also, I'm trying hard not to laugh that apparently about half your case is how Thor isn't the absolutely obvious loudest pushing guy in a game that includes Regfan, Faraday, Vi, Tierce, and Tammy.
Even though I'm still objectively easily in the top 50% of loud pushers in this game despite that.

[Thor665]

I feel like that post alone should explain why this lynch should happen.

Good luck trying to run a town again using this logic. Everyone knows your schtick know.

The funny thing is, it still works, especially when the other guy looks scummy.
Sweating yet?

and my first thought is why, so he can change something so he comes off less predatory? And then I remember I’m a rational MS player who doesn’t need to worry about those types of things.

[Thor665]

Tis all good. I thought you were just doing it for the amusement factor mostly.

Eh, it's me, so yeah that was probably partly it in some manner. But I figured with me being who I was, that I could do two things.

1. Get away with it afterwards.
2. Do it enough that someone would bite.

I mean, let's be clear, yesterday, with everything there about Sixty, and me being dead wrong on Voided, he went after N with me...today I'm apparently obv. scum because I'm voting him. The fact that Jesse hopped on N that way, went to the effort of outlining his own take on it, and then dropped it all to hop on the agreed big bus of the day today, and then spun and hopped on me as I rode after him just makes me feel like I found a jackpot for the day.

I'll admit my clear of N is soft, but I'm not sure I buy that 'let's have him talk' comment as really likely to come from a buddy.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on both...(both your thoughts on both?)

[Thor665]

No it doesn't.

Thors a lean town read. I get my best reads from interaction, and thors fooled me before. I'm leaning town on him, but we can argue to make sure. Besides once he realizes we're town, if he's town as I think, it will make it that much easier for town to work together and win.

From the exact same page...only posted earlier.

[Thor665]

Ninja!

[Thor665]

When you ask a player why they have a townread on a player it does make it look like you have a scumread on them

No, it really doesn't. It makes it look like you want to know why they have the read they say they have.

Also note that I later said "Oh wait nvm Tampire can be town for surie" which was put when I looked back and realized you might not have a scumread on Thor.

Why not say this at the time?

[Thor665]

Also...what the hell, if you thought that then why are we even having this discussion?

[Thor665]

@Tammy - I'd say just answer him now and see what he does with it.

@Deadpool - I actually think it looks that way though, that it does matter with her read on me.

[Thor665]

Thor can you not guess why he didn't say it before.

i can - I wanted to see his answer though, because I believe I can read people wrong sometimes. It's a weird habit of mine.

@Thor,

A. I'm saying shifting reads with lack of explanation in between is scummy. How did Jesse do that (since you're implying he didn't explain his read changes). I'm not even arguing you haven't given reads. I'm arguing you haven't really explained read changes with reason/logic more than once.

C & E. What other reads means how has you're pushing helped you on your other reads? How many people have changed minds to scum jesse or how many people have been convinced by what you said on a town read that they're actually town. Being clearer how much has what you said made other people say I agree with that part specifically and now agree with your read on them (not literally that but you should understand the point). Tammy's made fun of the beard a bit by now.

D. First two parts of the response is that's the problem. Last part is lack of read explanation in between just feels like changing whenever wanted or just ignoring past reads when no longer useful. Can you not see how going voided read makes sense -> vote voided later with 0 expansion on it isn't strange?

~Mehdi

A. And I'm saying it only is sometimes, and certainly odd that you think it should apply to the Piggy read of all things - seriously now. Why don't you explain why that one matters?
Also, if I've only explained a read change once (and have done...what 3 of them and 1 was a RVS vote) I actually think I'm doing pretty well in the grand scheme.

C & E. I don't know how many people have been specifically changed by my reads. I certainly can't judge your wagon yet. The Voided one clearly went places after I endorsed it though - so that had solid effect. Depending on your opinion of his alignment, I also kinda nabbed Jesse. So, yeah, it seems to work. Tammy has not made fun of the beard in a negative way, and it's rather derpy to imply it is so.

D. ... Maybe I need to quote the whole conversation so i can follow this;

In post 683, Soul2277 wrote:D try quoting were you suspected voided much before the vote. Or were you gave reasons why piggy was town before you said you wanted a counter wagon for her. That's the problem. Those are lacking/minimal.


1. I never said I did, so...?
2. Quote where I did with the vote, why expect me to need to provide reads for unvoting a read I had never provided reads to support?
3. Why is that a problem?

D. First two parts of the response is that's the problem. Last part is lack of read explanation in between just feels like changing whenever wanted or just ignoring past reads when no longer useful. Can you not see how going voided read makes sense -> vote voided later with 0 expansion on it isn't strange?

Okay, so you're saying the *problem* is that I didn't provide an explanation to vote Voided or Piggy...and somehow that also translates to a problem that I didn't provide reasons for leaving Piggy...?
No, I disagree - the problem is you thinking I had to. Clearly I didn't.
Also, if you can't figure out why I was voting Piggy and why I unvoted her all on your lonesome you're either scum playing dumb or I'm playing at a higher game level than you and it will be awkward to explain it. Let me know which it is. Maybe ask the rest of the game why they were not shocked by my lack of Piggy reasoning at the time?
Heck, ask yourself - you were there and didn't mention it either.

I don't get that comment about Voided vote thing at the end though. What are you talking about there?

[Thor665]

Ceru can you be more specific? I don't see anything bad in the way he asked (strange sure, but bad nope).

~Mehdi

I'll actually agree - just answer the question so I can stop reading you two arguing about it.

[Thor665]

Answer him then, see what he does with it,and force an answer from him at that point.

[Thor665]

A/D. So you're read changes were N (reaction reasons), piggy (rvs reasons), and voided (lack of real explanation of him being scum besides one mention of I understand the voided lean). I think the 3rd one is scummy (first 1 is null, second one I honestly didn't consider piggy to be a pure rvs vote from how you sounded when pushing her, but it's more null). Any clearer I can be? If you need more on how is it scummy to not explain why someone is scum when voting them well that's kind of the best I can clarify.

Yeah....about that.
Voided asked me - and I did explain the read.
So...?

C/E. 524 is where I was referring to tammy making fun of the beard.

524 is very much not describing beard in anything resembling a negative light.
I would be willing to wager money on this.

Essentially it really does boil down I just don't think you've been loud enough before when pushing reads.

Ah, and there we get to it. I am being loud, but not loud "enough"
Also known as a gut read an dbeard, which is fine and all - but I'm hardly intimidated by the read.
That case was about as easy to eat as I suspected.
It will *totally* blow Jesse's mind though. He was so sold too. Poor guy.

[Thor665]

I think you and Empire are planning reads.

Aren't they kinda supposed to? Being a hydra and all that.

[Thor665]

And Tammy's vote is rather derptastic.

[Thor665]

No, he's a really good contender for scum. This is not his town game.

Meh, nah.

Hey, Arthur and Thor, why are you two so adamant about each other being so town?

I don't know why he's so adamant.
I'm adamant because his play looks to have no scum value at all.

(Thor, you are the last person who should be talking about "derptastic" votes. I don't think you've voted mafia all game.)

Seeing as how I've voted a number of unflipped players who is to say?
Also, I easily could have been on the obv. wagon yesterday since I called it the day before, but...yeah, I was doing other stuff.
This is a meaningless point though.

[Thor665]

Why do you think scum Deadpool would go up against a player who just obv. lead a wagon on scum and also has multiple other people calling that slot a town read?

[Thor665]

Also, while we're at it - I actually think his case on you makes sense.
I don't agree with it - but t looks quite logical and functional as a path to suspicion.

[Thor665]

Oh does it now? Interesting.

It does - I agree with him that normally you would have stronger personal reads.
Also, you did act fishy about handing them over to him when, literally, from a town perspective there was no downside.

I may sheep you - but first your hydra owes me those reads I asked about.

[Thor665]

I may sheep you - but first your hydra owes me those reads I asked about.

Why?

~Mehdi

Because I asked for them.

Oh, but do you see that I was right? He had a motive that he was pushing to ask. I knew Arthur was trying to do something...because I know Arthur.

Obviously he had an agenda - the thing is, so what? What part of him having an agenda makes it dangerous to state your reads?

@Deadpool - what do you, coming from 20+ games of experience, think of Tammy calling herself a waffle queen and how does that feed into your current read there?

[Thor665]

But..why? As soon as you stated your reads you'd get the motivation.
I don't get it.

[Thor665]

I mean, that would be like when Soul here goes and asks me 'Hey, Thor, why didn't you provide a read on Piggy when you unvoted her?"
And I replied with "Why do you want to know?"

The obvious answer is 'he's scumhunting me or faking scumhunting me in some manner - duh. He is looking for a tell.
The social contract is that you provide the info so they can do with it what they will and then you assess whether that is townish or scummy for your own part.
Or you deny giving them the info for whatever reason and do the same.
But wanting a scumhunting (or fake scumhunting) method explained prior to stepping into it...I really don't get the motivation there.

[Thor665]

I really need to read Post 646 from Piggy again later, my mind just glossed over it. Someone (Probably Empire) urge me to do this if I haven't in the next few hours.

*cough*

Thor, I know you've probably explained this at some point either in one of your responses towards Soul briefly or in the future (Page 28sih to now) but can you explain your town-read on N for me please? If it's just 'He said lets have them talk' I don't find that to be a tell at all really, think it's sort of a fillerish line. I'm gathering that your inital reasoning and vote on Jesse has to do with him joining you on N - I don't think 'joining a counterwagon' is a scum-tell, know where you're trying to come with it being one but think it's more likely Tierce told partners to vote her and not N.

Re: N - I think it is. At that stage you have a buddy who is in trouble and you either believe they are in legit trouble, or you believe they can get out of it. If you think they're in legit trouble you should probably bus for cred, if you think they're not in trouble you should try to give them room.

N comes in and clearly admits he thinks they're in trouble and even goes to the point of claiming the hammer.
Then he's like 'meh, but I want them to talk more so they can incriminate other stuff' I'm not sure I see that one from scum, I would expect scum wanting to do the bus to pick up on the energy of the wagon and want to do it moreso for points and roll in with the rage hammer.
Frankly, if scum was on that wagon I would expect that they were competing to be the loudest.
N wasn't that guy.

Re: Jesse - Does that mean you believe there are two scum votes on the Sixty wagon?

(I'm curious if that's what Thor thought too, re: the replace out)

I think it's rather provably not what you're thinking it is. Absta's comments don't gel with a 'I need to replace out from spoilerage' vibe.

[Thor665]

Piggy does a derp vote.
Thor becomes a scumtell.
#mylife

[Thor665]

@Piggy - it's probably because when I explained how your case didn't make any sense everyone, but you, got it.

Seriously - Dead is almost calling it a scumtell on me that you're voting me because the case looks so badly timed - read m0ar.

[Thor665]

and then dropped it all to hop on the agreed big bus of the day today

When was that agreed upon? Pretty sure that didn't happen.

Spoken like someone who wants me to believe he can't read wagon momentum.

It will *totally* blow Jesse's mind though. He was so sold too. Poor guy.

Thor = Failed

Spoken like someone who doesn't explain how the case is still viable even though I did things to it that are illegal under the Geneva convention.

Re: Jesse - Does that mean you believe there are two scum votes on the Sixty wagon?

I’m thinking its really unlikely.

Interesting response.
You should stop scumskimming.

[Thor665]

Could you just dump your notes on everything? I'd like to see your thoughts on stuff.

Can't we just lynch him now?

[Thor665]

Looking back at reverse mafia thor pushed on sixty first. Basically:

Sixty I don't want to be revived now since I don't want to die.
Thor we'll never revive you then.
Then argument between the two a lot.

I personally think you're reading the core of the argument wrong there since the argument didn't really start till Day 2 (and thereafter).

[Thor665]

Explain it in your words then. The argument I remember started in day 1 and continued to day 2 where you got revived and sixty argued against it until Xalxe revealed a cop inno.

Well...

You accurately identified the core of our issue - but since that happened on Day 1 and we probably only had a handful of posts about it at all, I'm not sure how that becomes our big arguement.

I would say the big stuff didn't really happen till the start of Day 3 when I was calling Sixty on misrepping me and he was defending his stance and I continued to call his plan bad.

But why don;t you tell me how big of a dustup you think we got into Day 1? Because I submit there wasn't even one there, he came up with a plan, I called it dumb, and that was about it. Hardly an argument of epic proportions that needed to be seen again. You and I have had more of a dustup today than Sixty and I had over days 1-2 in Reverse - call me wrong on that?

[Thor665]

All reads at all times are based off Thor interactions.
Thor actually only has an alignment insomuch as to reflect onto others.
Oddly this is not the only game I could post this in at the moment and have it appear to be on topic...

[Thor665]

Egads.

[Thor665]

Oh woe unto me for posting in another game first.

Eh, I'm fine with the reasoning.
Deadpool is a bit of a twit in his conclusions.
We do Jesse tomorrow if there is a tomorrow though.

Unvote: Jesse
Vote: PiggyGal

[Thor665]

Wait thor who's jesse's partnered with if it's not piggy? That and you don't feel confident on piggy scum either.

~Mehdi

I never claimed to be hunting for partners.
I'm special like that.

[Thor665]

Jesse doesn't have notes because Jesse is scum - or haven't you noticed?

[Thor665]

Vote: Jesse

Just saying.

[Thor665]

You were part of the Day rush...so?

[Thor665]

Vote: Jesse

I may be rushing.

[Thor665]

Why didn't I try to push Jesse harder yesterday...



How?

[Thor665]

Plus it was only a part of me!

[Thor665]

Well not exactly the pushing harder thing, as it went fast, but what I'm mainly wondering about is that we waited so long for someone to hammer Sixty who were pretty obvious scum and you didn't hammer but kept floating the N thing. Why did you just hammer Piggy so easily then?

Because I saw the chance for further scumhunting by not pushing Sixty.
I did not see that happening to the Piggy conversation and wished to move past it to the Jesse conversation.

[Thor665]

That lylo has been over for a while and he wasn't doing much in it regardless, fyi.

[Thor665]

I have expanded plenty - you can either call me a liar or you can vote Jesse.

[Thor665]

Which actually is an accusation of distancing, not of bussing, natch.
Not that I see how that debate holds anything but boredom for us. Is it going anywhere?

[Thor665]

I'm starting to think it's Thor/N.

Because...?

In short, he wouldn’t be playing such a reckless game if he were town.

When did Sixty get a townread on Thor?

When did he get one on you?

Nut the N wagon is gaining steam, look at how fascinating it is.

When did you get a scumread on N?

When did you stop learning how to read?

Nut the N wagon is gaining steam, look at how fascinating it is.

Are we lynching N yet - feels like we were lynching N.

I think Piggy and N are both likely town.

Seriously - that's an actual rejoinder to that. You come off looking more scummy than I with this current arc.
Is this FF? I could buy it as FF because his cases are terribad - let me know.

[Thor665]

Thor buddy, what happened from:

I'd hammer Sixty, but I want them to come in and make some more incriminating posts and hopefully out their buddies for real.

To:

N comes in and clearly admits he thinks they're in trouble and even goes to the point of claiming the hammer.
Then he's like 'meh, but I want them to talk more so they can incriminate other stuff'

I'm not sure I see that one from scum

, I would expect scum wanting to do the bus to pick up on the energy of the wagon and want to do it moreso for points and roll in with the rage hammer.

Seriously?

Here's a hint: Thor stopped lying somewhere inbetween.

[Thor665]

What?

Well...I kinda hit you up with multiple things.
How about you respond to the ones you do understand and then I'll explain the remainder.

if your response is truly 'what?' to the whole she-bang then I suppose you can wait for one of the players who has read the thread and then you can see if any of them think my post is nonsensical mush, or an actual reply.

Also, which head made that case?

[Thor665]

Actually F-16 thinks it's N/Jess and I think it's N/Thor, soooo,

So why isn't this head reading the thread as he makes these conclusions?
Because I'm accusing you of skimming like a boss.

[Thor665]

You work just confirmed how bad and terrible your bias is then.
Why isn't it scum bias?

And as far as changing it...well, it certainly suggests that your case is made up of, at best, a random gut read, and at worst intentional scum deceit.
So, yes, i do think a totally bad case does prove that the case and the case maker should be questioned and examined far more than the case target.
You do not believe these things I take it?

[Thor665]

Also, 902 is in response to Thor's "We do Jesse tomorrow if there is a tomorrow though." Plus it seems like it's mostly just suspicious of Thor. And I don't really see it as them knowing that Piggy will flip town, in fact the whole sentence is more reading to me like "Wait thor who's jesse's partnered with if it's not piggy?" as in she still believes Piggyscum and saying something like "Who COULD Jess be partnered with if not obv piggy" Not sure if this makes sense but the sentence isn't really reading scummy to me.

I actually like this logic.

[Thor665]

Thor, I want to know who you think fits as Jesses partner. And please don't give me a "Only want to find one mafia" response.

But I only want to...

Okay, here's my stance - I rarely buddy pair hunt.

Basically, I think it's a miracle when town claims scumtells and properly points at scum in the first place. Throw in the vageries of 'this theory partnership does/doesn't make sense' and I think all you're doing is ordering an extra bottle of wine to your table.

Jesse either is or isn't scum based on his reactions Day 2 and his vote swirl Day 3+4.
I don't see that as town, the leaps make no sense to me. I don't know who his buddy may or may not be, but he looks like scum by himself and that's all I think matters.

Of your N/Soul mumblings I think I'm vaguely leaning Soul...maybe. So I suppose the answer would be I'm thinking Soul/Jesse. Let's go with that for now.

[Thor665]

::snores::

[Thor665]

Don't worry, Thor, we're probably going to lynch your partner today so you don't have to worry about this game anymore.

~Empire.

Are we starting with Jesse?
I'd still like to start with Jesse despite the brilliant logic of proving I'm town by lynching N because his crime is being my only possible partner.
Despite that being a great case.

[Thor665]

I distill all walls to the salient points.
That does appear to be the driving core of the N wagon currently.

[Thor665]

Would you respond to the case on him yourself then if you think it's that weak of a reason (and still seem to think he's town)?

~Mehdi

I kind of think I already did - the rest of your case is meaningless to my mind.

Why do you seem to care so much about N? We lynch him, you become basically clear by PoE if he's town, you get your Jesse lynch tomorrow.

~Empire.

I don't know why the instant I suggest not lynching someone nowadays it immediately becomes a buddy conversation.
I also don't think you should be lynched, and was generally more vocal about that - buddies 4 life?
Bad relationals are bad - and that's what all this conversation today has been, people talking about relationals as though they know what they're saying.

I mean, the fact that Thor evidently really doesn't want N to get lynched today is ringing alarms bells to me right now.

Face.
Palm.

Here's the first case. Having to look back and analyze n more made the read on him individually change as well to be stronger then the thor scum read.

Naturally.

But Thor not buying into the original case, that now you've changed - totally buddy attitude.


I didn't read your case - feel free to add that to the case.

[Thor665]

You.
Gut.

[Thor665]

Quick comment before I actually wade through Soul's case to answer his questions.

@Soul

Why rebut Justin's anti-N case comments but not rebut his anti-Thor case comments?

[Thor665]

Why were you just kidding about the v/la?

Why did you ask that question? It seemed fairly self explanatory from the sarcastic post she made.

I disagree - she actually didn't explain why she did it at all.
I grok that it was "sarcasm, lulz" but...why say it? That's what I wanted to know.
You harp on this for a bit, so I can skip ahead now.

This post in my opinion implies that Thor has meta as a reason to formulate his opinion on Piggy yet later in the game he explains that he neither prefers nor dislikes meta in reasoning to call people scummy.

Why make this comment when he's shown some apathy to meta? It's another question that means little to him but he just asked it anyway to look busy.

I neither prefer or dislike meta.
It's suspect that I use meta.
I don't think you actually know what 'neither prefer or dislike' means. Because, hint, it doesn't mean 'refuse to use...or 'dislike'...in fact it means I don't dislike it...derp.

Thor, do you believe that meta research on N, who "only has" town games is inconclusive?

Absolutely.
The ability to use it is so narrow and constrained as to be laughable. Meta is tough enough to work with actual knowledge, much less derp half-knowledge.

What part of the post do you not like from Piggy? The fact that she thinks you don't care yet ask questions because I am seriously confused by this post of yours.

I know you probably won't read this but since you "demolished" Mehdi's case earlier I think you'll respond to anything that is actually seriously addressed to you.

I wanted to know why she specifically thought I was disinterested. She couldn't provide an answer and that made her conclusion scumspect as opposed to townspect. Because either the conclusion was scumhunting, or was just mud slinging, and I wanted to know which. It's a pretty complicated and new edge scumhunting method.

I like this from Thor and I think this actually a pretty town remark coming from him since it seems that Thor is interested in why Piggy finds him scummy for reasons not including one that'd require omgus but still being partly true.

I personally think you're trying to get me to put more meaning into that 'suggests' than there really is.
Counter question, if by 'suggests' he means 'We have yet to have done anything to make the read legit' why even mention it at all?

You were the one that had the problem with the word in the first place and made a post dedicated to it. Again, note the dismission of the meta reasoning.

I'm aware you're attacking me here.
I don't understand how or for what reason. It just looks like sturm and drang.

I already answered this - what part didn't you grok?

I think I'm missing this answer, can you please quote it. Do you mean where you talked about how you have never needed to adjust?

That would be in Post 85.
Good ISO work.
I might be trying to dismiss the quality of your case by suggesting you didn't read well enough to have a good conclusion.
And by 'might be' I mean 'am'

So early in your iso and I am already getting confused because you answer questions with questions which is not helpful in my opinion.

And is so scummy too - you'll explain that eventually, I am sure.

I noted this earlier in my catchup post, he goes from "rattling their cages" and having issues with their known methods to rethinking that their actions are obv. town and stating as such. This was after the Ceru pressure he was trying to apply realistically did not go anywhere.

Or because I got a town read on them and announced as such.
I'm crazy like that.

Equi voting piggy to L-1 with minimal explanation or force. That clear enough?

~Mehdi

Except for it being a scumtell - yes.

Let me flip the tables, Thor. Why is this not a scum tell because Mehdi and I both agreed that it was not a town motivated action in our opinion when she made that vote.

I have a snippy and rhetorical question to about this specific post but then I feel like I would be stooping to your level.

Yeah...um, y'see, for it to be a scumtell you need to explain the scum motivation. The best I think you can manage is 'trololol, pushing town wagon while avoiding giving reasons!'
The thing is, that's like an elementary scumtell - so much so that scum avoid it like the plague. COnversely, voting someone to L-1 with no commentary does garner reactions and responses, and those are immensely pro-town. So there is both a scum and a town motivation to the act - which means it's most likely a null tell unless you can prove the motivation.

Uh-huh.

Let's lynch Absta or Voided.

Is this the pressure and aggressive behavior that you were talking about recently Thor?

Worked to get Voided lynched, so...yes.

These types of posts are unnecessarily argumentative and again go to my point that Thor is subtly trying to undermine legitimate, albeit weak reasons against people.

How dare Thor question weak reads!
Sooooooooo scummy!

Here he is passively defending Sixty about their case and still continuing to argue with Cerulean.

Actually - that would be actively defending Sixty - I called out Cerulean for questioning the case and said I thought the case was good and also claimed the case was based off my thoughts.
Good ISO work.

Question: You are familiar with active lurking and the loose derivatives it can produce, right?

Nope - you should explain them.

Note to self - Post 206

What came of this?

When I did my second section of catchup I started from Post 206.
Good ISO work.

Lastly, love how ceru is obv town when not too long before they were worth voting. Sure read changes happen, but going from one side to the complete opposite in a couple pages is off.

No - it isn't. Dear gawd, that's a terrible point.

And, what, you can't give a two sentence summation of the Ceru case? It must be bad then.

Unecessary dismission of Jesse's case. Not all people are as articulate and precise with your words as you are. Some people actually try to explain their dislikes of people's playing rather than saying "beard" or "no grok, sir"

Except - it's quite valid.
Y'see, all this silly "case" It's not a case.
The case (thus far) is "Thor is dismissive of others, changes his reads in awkward ways, soft defended Sixty, and is active lurking through pointless questions."
That's the case.
This is 'examples' or, if you wish 'proof'.
Big difference.

Thor is passively pushing the Voided wagon while simulataneously saying that is active aggression when it really isn't and he isn't even focusing on what his scum read is saying.

That's the closest thing I've seen to a scum case on me thus far.
I disagree with your definition of 'passively pushing'

This is an awkward interaction with Sixty and it is one of the few because Thor's otherwise activity has been engaging with other people and mostly ignoring Sixty other than the early Cerulean questioning about his opinion of Cerulean. Without prompt he mostly ignores sixty.

Good job reading that in context and noting my later comment about the context.

Later on when he says he's been pushing the N wagon as a test that's also off when on day 2 he wasn't treating sixty as a big scum read either (and if that's a reaction test as well how does not scum reading sixty help you in any way?)

I disagree with your ability to read between the lines.

Nothing too concrete that he dislikes about them. Other than a general course of action that didn't really make sense now that he is finally being tied to a read on them. Back in Reverse Mafia Rudex he's willing to argue with them a lot originating over their plan but here when they have a plan he doesn't really think on it much himself.

Well...other than to say how the concept obviously came from a non-town standpoint, yeah, I totally didn't address it.

All rapid posts that serve really no purpose other than to show that Thor dislikes the reasoning in those posts or potentially finds them scummy.
Again, the vote on N and the reasoning for beard are all copouts. It also shows more of instead of giving more reason to get people to agree with him (one man doesn't make a lynch) he just weakly shows dislike.

You're right, the push on N, in retrospect, looks disingenuous, forced, and not well supported.
Weird.


Disclaimer: Skipping the rest because this is getting too long and terrible.
If there is anything in the second half that is really worthwhile - say so, and I'll respond.
But...'meh, I disagree with you' is probably the core answer to everything except phrased in different witty and sarcastic ways.

[Thor665]

Why rebut Justin's anti-N case comments but not rebut his anti-Thor case comments?

He responded towards my town-tells on N, not my anti-N case and at that point I hadn't gone into my town-tells of you.

Fair enough, and you asked for them too, so it makes sense. I just remembered it as part of the post you had on both N and I, so the half response felt weird.

[Thor665]

Thor, I could wall reply you back, but I don't really see a lot of point for a case that big. If there's something specific you want to respond to sure, otherwise I'll pass on doing text wars with you of that size.

Do you agree or disagree with my responses. Because I personally think I treated that case like it was as functional as a one-legged man in a butt-kicking contest.
If you disagree with that, and see some awesome points of yours that I'm not responding to functionally - how about you call me out on it and explain how those responses are bad.
Feel free to pick your top 2-3 points that I'm not even denting.

Quick question why was there a dislike scummy face when we said one thing you did felt town?

Wondered what it was doing in there. If you were making a scum case on me, even as bad as that scum case was, I was curious why you'd list a town tell.
Also, if you're listing town tells - why was that the only one worth mentioning?

[Thor665]

Since OS felt like commenting on it when he read your iso (in other words ask him why that specific one).

Out of curiosity - why didn't you ask? Or did the two of you not review that case together?

Yeah that's the point. Great to see you see it too. And it's not the fact you're question weak reads, but it felt like you were trying to remove weak reads.

How is questioning weak reads scummy?
Also, aren't you calling me out for having weak reads...does that make you scummy for doing that, or does it make the reads scummy for being weak?
I am pretty dumb, but this feels like a mixture of not a scumtell and also internal hypocrisy - clearly I'm getting that wrong, so what am I messing up?

You're right, the push on N, in retrospect, looks disingenuous, forced, and not well supported.
Weird.

I honestly don't know whether this is supposed to be sarcastic or not. If it's sarcastic sure you've said it was a reaction test, so you're also giving it was a really weak reaction test too?

1. Yeah, it has sarcasm. Just a touch though, you should hardly feel it because it's so subtle.
2. I dunno, you seem to have been totally sold on it being a legit case, so it can't have been that bad of a test. But, yeah, it does seem that when I point out that it was a reaction test and you look at what I'm saying I'm being rather aggressive (or...I dunno, whatever word you like to use to describe it) towards N, and encouraging the lynch, and yet not actually really doing anything of worth with it - and then Jesse hops on it.

Also, if you think it was so bad - is your logic that I was scum trying to deflect by not getting behind the counter-wagon I was trying to build? What was my scum concept here?

There's a difference between the amount of arguing you had with sixty that appeared after their plan in mafia rudex to the amount of arguing in this game. That's the point.

There couldn't be arguing though - I said it obviously didn't come from a town perspective, and then he power lurked and went quiet.
So...? Whut, was I supposed to start arguing with him by making up his rebuttals or something? I don't even get what you're suggesting should have happened differently.

I disagree with your ability to read between the lines.

Want to expand on this?

I kind of feel I did above - but short answer is 'if you're town, you don't deal well with gambits...at all.'

[Thor665]

0.

1. You do grok that if we just change the word to 'challenging' weak reads then suddenly what I was doing sounds awesome and pro-town even by your own description there. This feels like an incredibly fine point of distinction - is that just me?

2. Riiiight. So, basically I tried to save him, realized I'd done about the worst job ever of it, but then realized I could backtrack and claim it all as a clever ploy...Ockham's, yeah?

3. I called it, in no uncertain terms, a scum action. How could I have been more aggressive? Started just screaming at him while he wasn't there? JT and Ceru seem to have been able to spot what my actual opinion was there, even if (maybe) I had to point it out to remind them my stance, why is this so niggly for you?

4. I would have to at least be neutral towards him or not discuss him much on the lynch Day in order to gambit (and I did the latter and...yeah, it looks rather obvious in my opinion how I'm circling not discussing him that Day). But...whut? You're saying I should have called Sixty scum more, while also trying to work a gambit of seeing who would sheep blind Thor unexplained tunnel on a different player? I don't think that's a good plan at all - and even if it is the best way to pull that gambit ever made, how would me not doing it make me more scummy? At worst you're suggesting the gambit was poorly pulled off - newsflash; if there was a gambit than I'm almost assuredly town. For me to be scum there are only really three possibilities;

- I didn't try to pull a gambit, but was going for a legit mislynch (interesting since you seem to think N is my partner)
- I faked pulling a gambit for lulz town points (which would presume there are better lulz town points than just lynching the buddy I'd already called scummy while no one had expressed any real suspicion of me yet)
- I am just raging bad/idiot savant brilliant as scum and do whatever I want, whenever I want, because that's how Thor roles now despite all past evidence.

Am I missing one?
Which are you advocating?

[Thor665]

I hate you, Empire.

@FF - except your theory Thorscum plan actually doesn't make sense with how I was playing it.

[Thor665]

How were you playing it? Can you describe what about it doesn't make sense as scum?

I kind of feel how you just described how it wouldn't make sense.

But let's just say I lead a derp counterwagon with no logic and no case, and just bleh bombast attitude.
I lead that counterwagon on town.
Then, the guy I called obv. scum at the end of Day 1 gets lynched Day 3 and flips scum after said town counterwagon.
What's my scumplan then?

If that had been Day 3 you might have a legit plan that I would do. But it isn't, you don't, and that's why it's doesn't make sense.

1. Yup. It's just how you see it.

2. Ockham's isn't always right, but I think this one's at least understood.

3. I honestly had to read back to remember the context of the argument, but you're point on sixty not being there isn't true, since when sixty mentioned that plan they were still walling. They stopped shortly after that.

4. I'll drop this just because the bigger problem isn't the gambit (which I still think you just decided to call it that later on instead of saying weak push elsewhere) is that it was on N just makes things strange. It becomes a bigger argument if N flips town (although that'd also mean one of my strong town reads is scum), but right now that just requires multiple assumptions to make sense.

1. Also known as - yeah, this stance of Soul's makes no sense and he's going to retreat from it and not address how fine of a hair split it is.

2. Uh huh.

3. Yeah...um, y'know, I make that case, he posts *once* more, and my immediate next post of the day is asking people to express thoughts on Sixty. Then, Day 2, I totally drop it for scum hijinks. Sure, pull the other one, it has bells on.

4. Uh huh.

[Thor665]

I'm still leaning Soul/Jesse with a preference towards Jesse, but Soul's awkward shifts with the case on me are kind of driving me towards OMGUS on him.
Deadpool feels vacantly useless for the most part - but I still think the slot is town.
JT and Ceru are town - Ceru is painfully obv. town.
Nacho is a niggle, but he always feels bad and scummy to him, I'm not strongly against his lynch, but seriously think we'll do better in the Soul/Jesse combo. Also, if everyone else is convinced his only possible partner is me...well, then it's a dumb lynch unless you actually buy Oversoul's case on me - and no one should.

[Thor665]

Actually - could someone remind me why N is 'only partners with Thor'?
I should probably actually look at that logic.

[Thor665]

Zzzzzzzzzzz why isn't N lynched yet?

Because you haven't come up with a peppy case of two sentences and repeated it a lot so everyone understands why he should be lynched.
I literally was even just asking about his partnership info - if you want the lynch and want it soon...um...y'know, work for it?

Nacho is a niggle, but he always feels bad and scummy to him, I'm not strongly against his lynch, but seriously think we'll do better in the Soul/Jesse combo.

This is scummnumnumnumy.

(not to mention half the sentence makes no sense)

Actually, it's not scummyscummyscummy - but maybe you should explain *how* it's scummy if you want to say that.
Especially if you're also claiming it makes no sense...which, y'know, if you can't even figure out what I'm saying I'm not sure how it's also supposed to look scummy. Because last I checked motivation was the only actual real scumtell.

[Thor665]

What does:

"Nacho is a niggle, but he always feels bad and scummy to him"

actually mean?

"Nacho is a niggle, but he always feels bad and scummy to

me

"

PS setting up lynches for today and tomorrow is the scummy part.

Isn't that THE ENTIRE THING EVERYONE HAS BEEN DISCUSSING ALL DAY.
Because, I kinda think it is.
That's all we've been doing.
Derp.
Go take your wiki tells and go sit quietly in the corner.

[Thor665]

And sweet mother of mercy - going back and looking - I'M NOT EVEN DOING THAT!
All I did was list a top two suspects and explained my reads on everyone else.

How did you get 'lining up lynches' from that?

[Thor665]

For Smurf's sake it's not that hard

Except to explain it as a scum action - apparently.

"seriously think we'll do better in the Soul/Jesse combo." kills any possibility for an N lynch and shows that you are disregarding the actual flips and simply wanting soul/jess for today/tomorrow. Which is def scummnumnumnumy.

Actually, that was pretty clearly a request for TODAY as there was nothing in that as a 'let
s lynch one and den da ovver, trolololol!' So...

Sooo, why does N always feel bad and scummy to you?

My presumption is he's not good at playing town.

And, y'know, how is that actually a reason to go OH LOL THAT MAKES HIM TOWN again? Occam's razor dictates that the simplest reasoning tends to be the right one. Or are you playing some Smurfy wifom reasoning in your head?

[/quote]
It is absolutely not a reason and would be bad wifom.
Good thing I didn't do that at all or even indicate as such without massive squinting needed.
I even flat out agreed he looked scummy, so...?

[Thor665]

So why don't you want him lynched

That would be for the shocking concept that, as I specifically mentioned, I thought we'd stand a better chance to hit scum in lynching Jesse or Soul.
It's a really complicated and newfangled method I just invented, where I try to lynch my stronger scumspects. Very new age.

Preliminary thoughts: I am really undecided on the whole "baiting to see if anyone doesn't join the Sixty wagon." I can see both town and scum motivations behind it - town because of just what he said. Scum because he had a neat explanation for derailing the Sixty wagon - one that town would buy, so win-win. If somebody else gets lynched other than Sixty, that is the second mislynch. If not, he gives his explanation that he was baiting players off the Sixty wagon.

More later.

~ F-16

Just read Thor's wagon on N.
[snip]
~ F-16

Thor, why do you think Jesse would find a Sixty counterwagon viable? You posted a reaction test, he took the bait and you went after him. But the Sixty lynch was really cut and dry so I don't know why Jesse wouldn't bus. Sixty's partners would want to be on that lynch and Sixty would want them to be on their lynch as well.

By that logic from your standpoint;

Cerulean

Soul2277

PiggyGal15

Justin Timberlake

Deadpool

You advancing that as the scumteam?
Yeah, I could see you or Justin or Soul as a busser. I'm leaning towards it not being so though - because that wagon still took a while to happen, I think if both scum were leaping on it then it would have been quicker.

match up with his town-meta where he believes unusual stuff is town. In another game where I quickhammered a townie, Thor said that was obvtown. Still need to read Thor's scum games to double-check though.

I'll save you time - I would say that as scum.

By your logic, do you find [Justin] suspicious Thor?

Absolutely - that said he's had independent other play decisions (defense of me *and* you that make me suspect he is less likely scum and more likely town.[/quote]

[Thor665]

Ohaaaiiii Thor

Hullo.

Sup guys, who wants to catch me up?

I will.

Ceru is obv. town.
JT is almost assured town.
Thor is wacky clever town or worst scum ever - you need to make a value call on that.
You are highly likely scum and hopefully the lynch for the day.
There is some debate amongst N, Deadpool and Soul about other scum - most tend to edge Deadpool to the townish side and there is hot debate concerning N and Soul with N as probably the current popular scum choice.

We opened by lynching Voided. No real reason.
In doing so, Sixty looked scummy for pushing Piggy (we later lynched Piggy, because town is dumb)
Ceru spotted it. I defended him from it.
Day 2 Sixty was lynched and flipped scum.
Thor pulled wacky gambit and decided Jesse (you) was scum, some consider this Thor claiming scum.
Then we lynched Piggy for 'reasons'.
Now we're probably going to lynch you or N.

Discuss.

[Thor665]

Thor, you're no fun.

Meh - when I replace in I ask those questions and I think they're valid questions and it's also meaningless to ask the player to catch up. Either they will or they won't and either they will claim to or will claim they are not, and both are meaningless to the reality of the catchup and certainly it is meaningless to ask them to catch up. Besides, what slime is doing might pass for scumhunting and it will be funny to see the results.

That said, yeah, we should speed lynch her for lulz because she's obviously useless.

[Thor665]

I think thor or some other player has said something similar in an MD thread.

Could easily be me - I don't think I've done reading of past pages in something like a year and some change now, and I replace in a lot.

That said - I also do that no read method in a manner that is helpful in generating reads in any way at all. People have already weighed in on the slot, and now Slime is living up to her namesake in usefulness. She already has info to go on if this is her game, the lack of doing so impresses me not at all. We should probably put another vote on her.

[Thor665]

That should be good for a laugh.

[Thor665]

Actually - could someone remind me why N is 'only partners with Thor'? I should probably actually look at that logic.

That's not actually it. It's "Thor only works as partners with N". Soul / N is possible. Pretty much what it is is that Jesse/N don't work and Deadpool/Cerulean are town.

How does Day 2 from me flow into scumpartnership with N?
I would think Thor/Ceru or Thor/JT would make more sense at that stage.

I think the point I'm hinting at is that clearing a connection to me is paranoid derp most likely - and maybe we should lynch off other reasons.

[Thor665]

I hate your guts for not playing - if you were playing I would possibly hate your playstyle.
But I know playstyle.
Playstyle is a friend of mine.
You, ma'am, have no playstyle.

[Thor665]

@Deadpool - so that list was just the AD side of the hydra and had no bearing on what the hydra's thoughts are as a conjoined mind?

[Thor665]

So you're going to advance someone as most scummy player int he game.
And your buddy is going to call that same player so townish it's scummy to suspect them.

And you think this is kosher?

[Thor665]

Okay, Deadpool can be a stronger scum read than Soul now.
Which is terrible, but...he's just admitted to being two players who don't discuss anything, and that needs to be squashed immediately.

[Thor665]

@Deadpool - going back to look, it actually doesn't even look like F16 has that big of a town read on Jesse - indeed, he was calling him scum multiple times, he just found N scummy for how N was attacking him (which means N is misrepping or just being derp when describing why you attacked N).

So...why the agree about Jesse being a town read of F16's?

[Thor665]

No, I'm confused because you're making this obnoxious because you guys aren't presenting a unified read front.
Let's go with this;

So your buddy is going to advance someone as most scummy player in the game.
And you are going to call that same player so townish it's scummy to suspect them.

How'd you guys agree on N as scum?

[Thor665]

And while we're at it - make F-16 explain how someone attacking someone else in a scummy way makes them both scum in this setup.

[Thor665]

Why is N scum besides being a common denominator then?
Because being a common denominator is not an individual scum case.
Did you discuss why he was scum and deserved to be in your pairings?

[Thor665]

Oh, and if you're tossing out the Thor/N pairing you can explain to me the logic of that one.
Y'know, where F-16 thinks I tried to save a busted buddy by bussing the other one?

[Thor665]

Or we could just lynch the slot now and save everyone time and frustration - that would be sexy.

[Thor665]

It would be a lot more fun than this silly fencing.

[Thor665]

I don't believe you.
You clearly have time and ability right now - you are reading and responding to things.
You also were given a synopsis.

You have asked no questions.
You have pressed no accusations.
You haven't even responded to a handful of rather intense comments.
You just keep posting useless posts that mean nothing while trying to act whimsical and clever as though you matter at all except as the next person to be lynched.