Mini 1804: Poker Mafia (Game Over)

[Fire Assassin]

An assassin walks into town and calls you all out to play a poker game with me.
Are you all yellow or what?

[Fire Assassin]

What's up, are you scum?

Not much, and Probably.

[Fire Assassin]

I don't really like your reaction to that. It suggested to me you either knew or think I am town already but are suggesting me to be careful and are slightly buddying me.

I would say its scummy, but it could be just nothing. Though usually I have seen town react to this in very few limited ways some are annoyed by it and don't take it serious others take it at face value, but this is a different reaction. My gut says its scummy.

[Fire Assassin]

My assassin instincts are heavily telling me that Lane is scum in this game.

[Fire Assassin]

I think your assassin instincts are misguiding you.

Have anything to add? Want to go into why I am wrong. I assume you have a townread so you can maybe shed some light on that?

[Fire Assassin]

Lane has been super open this game and his thoughts look genuine to me.

I guess i would have to read the rest of the pages because what i have seen just looks like a yes man.

[Fire Assassin]

What do you mean by a "yes man"

Just agreeing with everyones points. That was all I saw last page.

[Fire Assassin]

Persivul is next because of his reaction to me calling him out on role fishing. Rather than engage me on it he sidestepped it and went OMGUS with a bullshit reason.

The role fishing charge is terrible in this setup. The people with enough money to buy roles is public knowledge, and scum will be motivated to kill those people.

This sounds reasonable.

[Fire Assassin]

Lets see what this does:
VOTE: FA_Q2

[Fire Assassin]

What action?

[Fire Assassin]

I call $100

[Fire Assassin]

What action?

I call $100

Oh fuck the dipshit just now realizes that there are special mechanics in the game he joined.

Ohh hey, I subbed into a game and didn't see the bottom of my role card had a "hand" i just saw a "role"

[Fire Assassin]

VOTE: Fire Assassin

He's posting all over site but not here thus playing to his scum meta.

I swear to god if this is a scum meta based on my other account I am going to tear you down with a machine gun.

[Fire Assassin]

Okay my thoughts right now are Persivul might be town for his aggressive behavior so not liking that.
Hate reads on me based on meta, I am playing this account to engage in playstyles I don't normally do, so to say I am town or scum based on games from a different account is insulting me and I really just won't stand for it. Kthx (I am likely going to have to point that out some more)

Something_Smart also ringts as town to me.

MM is still not sure how he acted in that regard.
Lane hasn't interacted and the way he is questioning on nonsense like alts, I don't particularily care for since it was no point and him getting mad about it seemed maybe fake in a way? I am not sure on him.

Lane, what are your thoughts on this game and everything.
How about the betting mechanics and those?

Ill try to be more active in this game more moving forward. And my activity isn't alignment indicative.
Magna is playing this at a really low level, and playing super bad, and I have him as a null, so I may support a lynch on him if I don't have a strong scumread by deadline.

Anyone have questions on me? And yes, I haven't read the thread.

[Fire Assassin]

Ohh hey, I subbed into a game and didn't see the bottom of my role card had a "hand" i just saw a "role"

Exactly. And you didn't see that is said there are special mechanics and you should read them before confirming.

If you can't handle the number of games you're in, don't play so many games.

You would not get a replacement for awhile if I didn't fill in. Theres not a huge line of people getting in line to get in games that are already going. So take a step back, look at it from a mod and my perspective of and get out of your little zone. I have heard the arguments for playing in many games. You are not the first or last. I will likely be more active in this game and more involved so we won't have an issue.

I swear to god if this is a scum meta based on my other account I am going to tear you down with a machine gun.

When an alt is known, behavior of the main is fair game for a meta read.

Whether it's an accurate meta read has not been demonstrated at this point.

No it isn't fair game. Cause thats not the style of play I will be engaging in this game.

Hate reads on me based on meta, I am playing this account to engage in playstyles I don't normally do, so to say I am town or scum based on games from a different account is insulting me and I really just won't stand for it. Kthx (I am likely going to have to point that out some more)

It doesn't work that way. If you want to use an alt to try different styles, it's up to you to keep the alt secret. Magna hasn't given games to prove his meta charge yet, but there's nothing wrong with him going to your main's games if he gets around to it.

If you reference my main again as a use of my read, i will ensure you can hold an accurate read based on my main, by subbing in with my main.
I can tell you right now, you do not want that, because its a different style and a style most will not like.

Players tell me "you troll to much in games"
This is my answer to that.

If you want to use a read thats not accurate on me, I will help you out and show you the difference.

Now, I would prefer to never have this conversation again.
I will analyze the thread in next day or so. I have given a few thoughts and I think you are town right now, but I am mildly annoyed.

[Fire Assassin]

See you later. If you think I have been unfair to you, we can talk about this post game, but I think I have done nothing to deserve your hate in this specific game.

[Fire Assassin]

Why is s_s ringing town? You haven't read the game.

Why are you having an issue with a couple of my posts. Why is it pointless? You don't think it's an issue if magna gives us a search with 400 topics, and we only see 50 in a fire assassin "view topics". You don't think the alt thing is relevant? You think that's non sense that I wanted to make sure youre an alt when someone is showing all of firebringer's topics... How is that nonsense again?

"lane hasn't interacted... " I have double the next most posting player not counting Persivul. Tell me again how ive not interacted.

Why would I fake being mad? What's that have to do anything? People acting like smug pricks for no reason will piss me off every time.

I think this game is fun. I'm not much into politics but I hope a third party wins. I know the earth is round. I don't believe in chemtrails or in conspiracy theories. I think anti gun people are ridiculous. Maybe stricter guidelines for getting a gun is good, but that won't help anything... Honestly I couldn't possibly tell you my thoughts on everything, but I have one more. That question was stupid and pointless. I have double the posts of anyone. Read the game.

The betting mechanics are fun. Wtf is with this busy work?

1) I have now read 90% of the game and 90% is oddly not commentable on.

2) I was more talking about you haven't interacted with me and thats more of my fault, I wasn't calling you scum in any way, and why are you defensive?

3) what is the purpose of this paragraph exactly? This is just busy talk, and I guess it serves your point about me giving you busy questions? Thats not the purpose as I am trying to find my footing, and part of that is by asking people questions and doing interactions. I have read most of the game and I was wondering why most haven't brought up that we can use betting to throw hands to give majority of wins to players we strongly townread over just playing it like a side game which seems to be what people do in the beginning of the game.

4) Again, I am reading. Why do you have such an aggressive attitude about this? I am not attacking you.

[Fire Assassin]

And you're right. Most people won't like that "playstyle"

Probably.

And I would've rather waited for a replacement than get this new playstyle from you

Tell me what the purpose of this post is. Are you trying to tell me to replace out? Are you wanting to tell me you want me to participate more? What is the purpose of posting this.

[Fire Assassin]

The replace out itself I think is town though.

Replacing out is a NAI, but everything up to it was very more townlike i would have to say. He could have easily just not wanted to deal with me given our conflicting natures. I have gotten angry before and wanted to replace out as scum before so I should know. I actually kind of think he might be just angry in general and this burst the bubble, but that is personal speculation that has no business in a mafia game.

[Fire Assassin]

How am I exactly causing problems? My inactivity before? I wasn't into this game, I didn't know the mechanics worked for it and it didn't seem active enough to warrant my attention (which is messed up in its own way) but thats the past.

I have said I am going to be more active.

I feel like Fire only sees the game by "himself and the rest" given how he said lane was unresponsive while he hadn't answered to him, and yet (seeing as lane ninja'd me).

I don't like this for multiple reasons.
First off you suggest that I am not alligned when you say "himself" and then you call me not town but anything I have done not alignment indicative? I guess this refers to not liking me, but what does that have to do with me being "its in no way town"

You can't say that I seem like I see the game as just me and then everybody else and say I am not town. That doesn't make sense.
You saying I am third party? You saying I am town?

You basically said I am not group scum.
Why are there assumptions in this thread about Third parties if I may ask? is it based of just 11 players?

[Fire Assassin]

Oh wow, in one page this game went from totally fine to a crap fest.
Persivul, please don't replace out. Firebringer's playing on his alt BECAUSE he wants to be more enjoyable to play with. And meta reads against people who are highly aware of their meta are not usually effective anyway.

I want to know where lane's scumread on me comes from. Because ftr Firebringer has experience with me as both alignments and is quite good at reading me.

That last part rubbed me wrong way again, my instincts tell me to ignore it but then that feeling of someone playing up your abilities is there.....I will let it go for now.

[Fire Assassin]

VOTE: The MM
This is the right lynch for the day folks. I can make a case if requested but most of their posts are very scummy in some way and have either bad reasoning or skewered priorities and they leak their knowledge that they have more information than the rest of us.

[Fire Assassin]

Also I want to add in that I think we should throw poker games tomorrow to give our strongest town read the BP and ability to buy good stuff.
That is the secondary objective we should be obviously be pursuing besides lynching the scum.

Give strongest townread BP and make sure they get the PRs so they can't die, and we will lock scum out of choosing one of their best kills.

[Fire Assassin]

Hey lane I would like to discuss things with you.
How are you doing btw?

[Fire Assassin]

Naah, just set the kid down for a nap and we can get a cold one.
Thats great though, I think you said something about it in Legends of the Micro Temple. Must be hell right now with it. I hear the first years i the worst.

I am doing alright, sleep problems right now (been up all night).
Other than that not as many changes in my life as yours

[Fire Assassin]

MM is obvnewbtown.

You can't just leave comments like this. I have made several posts and comments on things that don't add up and are from awkward weird pov, he can't be uninformed imo.

Scumminess doesn't just go away when you add the prefix the player new.

[Fire Assassin]

Its not just awkwardness and contradictions? I think you are missing the crux of my argument that they seem INFORMED.

[Fire Assassin]

What about mm's posts makes him look informed because I'm not seeing it. You pointed out a post where it looked like he knew you were town, why can't that just be him being naive?

His approach to me when I said I am probably scum.
His post after saying that "fire Assassin and then Everyone else" They weren't just awkward they seemed to be from the standpoint he knew I am not on anyones side.

[Fire Assassin]

Fire Assassin – I am on the fence about. Lurking isn’t a scum meta for him. The entire point of the post was to see how he would react to being called out in that manner. Lane and Pers managed to make sure that the reaction was muddled. His “Oh I am machine gunning this is a different playstyle” leaves me cold. Fire usually has little problem being called scum as Town ( see post 1033 in this thread - viewtopic.php?f=51&t=66176) as an example ) but I can could see his frustration at being metaed as an Alt (which is stupid, frankly) as coming from Town.

Yeah, I don't particularly care for scum reads on me. Except when they are meta reads based on a playstyle I am not even using. So they annoy me because I am not using that style and it irks me in a way.

[Fire Assassin]

@Mod Will we get new hands since there is still time?

[Fire Assassin]

Fold!

[Fire Assassin]

Anyone want to comment on my plan to throw games so one of us tomorrow gets BP and good abiliites?
Or we just going to treat the poker stuff as a mini game?

[Fire Assassin]

Anyone want to comment on my plan to throw games so one of us tomorrow gets BP and good abiliites?
Or we just going to treat the poker stuff as a mini game?

This gives scum to much opportunity to manipulate the outcome.

Fold

I keep getting shit hands.

How does it give it scum the opportunity to maniplaute the outcome?
If players don't follow plan we lynch them, they can't manipulate events if we pick one person who is massively townread (right now thinking persivul which is now farside? slot)

If we organize it in this way, the only way scum could manipulate was to either A) deviate from the plan or B)Somehow actually being the most townread person. I think its unlikely B and A we can work with.

VOTE: The MM
This is the right lynch for the day folks. I can make a case if requested but most of their posts are very scummy in some way and have either bad reasoning or skewered priorities and they leak their knowledge that they have more information than the rest of us.

Please point to evidence of being informed.

I have explained this and won't explain it anymore, read my posts, I have talked about the idea of them being informed and why.
It might be "weak" evidence, but it was combination of awkardly worded posts and reactions to me.

[Fire Assassin]

Not sure if FA has changed but I don't recall him very chatty and in depth at the beginning of a post.

Please don't do this.

[Fire Assassin]

There is now two FAs in this game which will make this confusing in a bit. Just call me Fire from now on people.

[Fire Assassin]

But the poker stuff IS a minigame, Fire. Also, that plan relies on trust in one player to work. If that player is scum, town's screwed. Besides, there's no such thing as a universally-townread player in here.
By the way, crappy hand: Fold.

First off, you are scum.

Second of the mini game helps us with the main game, its not just simple tacked on gimmick to keep us busy during the main game. We can use it to get closer to our win condition in the main game. By using the mechanics to our advantage, do you not get that?

We can't do what i am suggesting today, but I think we throw some games to Farside/Persivul tomorrow to get them some items/roles to use like BP and Tracker.

And yes, there is rarely a "universal" town read, but there is usually one enough people can agree on that is appropriate like 80% of us agree one player is town, its probably likely they are in fact town.

[Fire Assassin]

*wingback/Persivul.

Farside/moi

Yes my reading comprehensions skills need some work.

@Farside what do you mean about my instincts sucking?

[Fire Assassin]

It was just an initial read. I have you null leaning town right now.
Lane did I miss you comment about my plan? Ill go recheck, if you haven't answered it pls do. Thx.

[Fire Assassin]

First off, you're scum. Now we're even. If you don't feel how stupid this sounds, you are bad and you should feel bad.
Second, yes, but I certainly wouldn't entrust my money to someone else, doubly not if it's you, BBT or RC, who have been in my eyes the most globally hostile players.
Third, I can already get Tracker anyway, so why should I bother giving it to anyone else?
Fourth, yes, sure, but we could post readslists and see if there's not one guy that gets the most townreads. Then again, I wouldn't consider that a good idea.

1) Strangely I never do feel bad.
2) I never said me? I was saying a person who was stronger town. Thats rarely me. My suggestion is wingback, and what does hostility have to do with alignment or even judgement? You want a town player who knows what their doing having the power.s
3) I don't like that at all. The point is to give it to town? And I don't think you are town.
4) Why not post your read list? What is wrong with giving it to if almost everyone townreads that player? Do you think scum is going to slip into everyones town list? I am sure they will slip in some, but most? IF they are doing that good, they are going to likely win regardless.

[Fire Assassin]

Mm: why are you scum reading fire?

You're making a misassumption. I'm only saying "you are scum" with no backup to the claim as an imitation of him to prove how his argumentary sucks. Everything else you need to know about what I think of him is in my previous posts anyway.

That doesn't prove my argument is bad? How was anyone supposed to come to this conclusion? Nothing else in there is a joke of any kind and the tone doesn't seem even like a "imitation" beyond your "You are scum", you want to point out the reasons why posting our reads list/giving to our global townread is a bad idea at all?

I already said not to give it to me.
Point out your counter argument here since my "argumentary" sucks.

[Fire Assassin]

RC I took forever to play my hand, did I get scum points for that?

[Fire Assassin]

Fire is prob scum as well.

I already said this earlier:

What's up, are you scum?

Not much, and Probably.

[Fire Assassin]

I thought the question was NAI lol
Why is fire scum, BBT

PEdit: good alternative = faq2

I was thinking it was not alignment indicative either.
I was more asking to start an engagement with RC since I have not interacted with him at all.

His answer and then follow up sound....reasonable?

[Fire Assassin]

It would be lovely if we could...

1) Finish this hand before the day ends.
2) Get lane/q to either commit to joining The MM (we'll need a claim soon) or really get working to push an alternative wagon.
3) Lynch The MM (or a good alternative).

So your better alternative is BBT. You don't consider MM just being newbie town in this scenario as other players?


What do you think about my plan I said earlier about throwing games tomorrow? (I am sorry if I a missed you commenting but I don't remember you doing so)

[Fire Assassin]

BBT do you want to ask me if I think my scum game is good?

@MM If you don't have a scumread strong enough to commit why are you putting a vote on me? You can see why many of us are confused at your behavior, town or scum you aren't making any sense.

[Fire Assassin]

BBT do you want to ask me if I think my scum game is good?

[Fire Assassin]

@Fire: How good would you say you are at making your interactions with people look genuine as scum?

Overall I would say my scum game is just a bit better than the average? It has its ups and downs, and if I put in the effort I think I can do it pretty well, but I personally think my town game is much better because its hard to fake the genuine trying when you are town. If you put a lot of effort into the game as town people can see your motivations as town, but if you are scum its easier to look disingenuous and people do point it out.

I think my best ability as scum is making it look like I am not associated with anyone. I am very good at interacting with a scumbuddy so that it looks like I am either not aligned or that it is unlikely. Thats my opinion on that though.

[Fire Assassin]

Idk. My shit is shit. Part of me feels like he explained away my whole case easier than I can wipe my own ass lately.

And a part of me can't believe he's town. The original gut feeling was him and fire assassin throwing weak town reads on each other based on nothing

What bothers me most about Something_smart was his pointing out my town lean on him and saying "Fire is good at reading me", which really seemed to pander to my ego which bothers me. Because first off I dont' think I am much better at reading him than most players, maybe above average, but it seems weak. Also what does my read have to do with him actually being town?

I will have to re-analyze him later. I don't want him lynched today though.

[Fire Assassin]

@Fire: What's your read on faq2 and why? Why did you vote him and then not mention him the entire game since then?

Null and he seems to have taken up the mantle of easy mislynch bait from what I think.
So my thoughts are he is likely flipping town if we lynch him.
I don't know if he is just busy in his life but he generally just doesn't seem invested into this game and I don't thats indicative of anything but real life stuff going on likely.

[Fire Assassin]

PEdit: @Fire, what exactly about faq2 makes you think he's flipping town? Is it that his wagon has scum on it, or what?

He seems like a low hanging fruit lynch.

[Fire Assassin]

Why can't low hanging fruit be scum? Apparently you're reading him as null based on his play, so...

They can be, but I am not reading him as anything, it just reads as an easy lynch and he is null which lends me to believe he is more likely a mislynch than anything.

I could be wrong, but thats just my read of it looking in, not particularly care for the people who jump on it, but I don't think any of them are ore scummy for it.

[Fire Assassin]

My stance on that wagon is scummy because i take no stance? And point out that I have a no read on them because I don't think they are really participating in the game?

Go on...

[Fire Assassin]

Which players jumped on FAQ2?

I don't know, my memory on that slot is like blank, I would have to reread which I loathe. I know I voted him at one point to see if this would get him to react but it didn't do anything.

I feel like continuing to repeat this is an effort to try and look pro-town

Fire's statement that he is slightly better than average as scum fits his play.

So I am scum because I know how too look pro town and I am better than average player?
I guess I can support this if its a crux for the arguments.

At least you admit I look pro town, even if you don't think I am.

[Fire Assassin]

I'm not sure mm has no strong townreads, even so, I've seen noob town do that before and get heat for that exact thing.

I have problems when someone excuses every players actions down to meta or experience.
Like saying X would do this because they are a newb.
Or X wouldn't do this because their meta.

Experience and Meta are there to give you baseline idea how a player behaves, not to excuse EVERY behavior a player plays. For instance, newbs have the most range of playstyles imaginable because they haven't fine tuned skills to something they are comfortable with, so locking them down as just Newb doesn't actually help with sorting them.

If you wan't to say "I think he is genuinely hunting for scum and is in line with towns win condition" thats fine, but saying every behavior that shows something is contradicting is "Ohh thats just newb behavior" is self serving your previous rhetoric.

[Fire Assassin]

I feel like continuing to repeat this is an effort to try and look pro-town
Fire's statement that he is slightly better than average as scum fits his play.

So I am scum because I know how too look pro town and I am better than average player?
I guess I can support this if its a crux for the arguments.

Dafuq is this defense? That's definitely not what I was saying and you know it.

About mm, I'm saying that not having strong reads is not really a scumtell, especially for a noob, as long as he's scumhunting (which he is).

Noobs tend to follow certain patterns on this site, and mm generally follows the town ones.

Defense? I was just trying to get your argument down to some basics beause most of it wasn't worth actually responding to:

Subtle misrep, and oddly hypocritical because he hasn't given that much of a case himself

Like what is this? Is this an argument for me being scum or an argument for me playing poorly?
Its not even true, but I digress. When has only scum misrepped and acted hypocritical only?

I think scum would be more upset about this than town

You are arguing a behavior analysis of what I would do implying a meta read that you do not have the authority nor the capability of making.
My reaction was NAI and I said it wasn't. Don't use this in your argument.

Scum like to vote their scumbuddies with weak reasoning so they can back off later. In addition, he never mentions faq2 once since this post. He even quoted a post where I suggested faq2 get lynched but he didn't comment on him. His comment about interacting with his scumbuddies could easily be WIFOM.

Implies I am buddies with FAQ2 this implies that he thinks FAQ2 is also scum but votes me because? This isn't an argument for me being scum, this is an argument for me BEING SCUM with FAQ2. Thats preflip associations and you again, can't do this because you have no idea what either of us will flip.

Kinda backs off his read when questioned in it

I just joined the game and hadn't read anything so when I back off a read it is what? Scummy? Suspicious?
But your feet in my shoes and ask if you only read the page where I subbed in and nothing else. Does my vote and even reasoning seem reasonable or normal?

This kinda pings my gut

Can't argue with gut pings.

Doesn't even maintain that the awkwardness/contradictions are scummy, there is only 1 time fire mentions mm being informed and even he agrees it's not super scummy.

You are right I didn't say that awkwardness and contradictions are scummy, awkwardness can be just a personality/playstyle and contradictions can be both town and scum, and I am not as sold on MM being informed as I was when I made the case. I think I make huge leaps to my conclusions sometimes, but he is still worth the lynch to me.

SO that about sums this up. I gave you a "defense"
Rebuttal?

[Fire Assassin]

-Town sometimes misrep and are hypocritical, but this is subtle enough that it makes it more likely to come from scum, like your were trying to hide it.
-I didn't imply any meta read, the fact is that scum are more likely to get upset about them getting scum read than town.
-Where's my vote again? Not giving an opinion on one of the biggest wagons despite giving a lot of content is scummy no matter the alignment of the player tbh.
-The fact that you backed up on it made me feel like you were trying to generate content and interact when you didn't really have much. As town I would've expected you to give a less strong read, or read the thread first and then give your opinions.

1) I disagree it was a misrep or hypocritical, but I don't know how I was "Trying to hide it" What? First off, didn't happen, Second off, no point because first part covers this.
2) I have no huge quarrel about being scumread, but the fact was it was based on a meta thing, which never went into detail and for all I knew was based off wildly bad assumptions of my play that is no longer true.
3) How is it scummy if the player is town? The player in question isn't worth discussing beyond the fact they are a leading wagon. Which I tried pushing with a vote, I never moved past that because it never developed into anything yet people are continuing to pressure there for reasons I can't really fathom.
4) These are good points, but I don't think you came to right conclusions on it. When you saying "trying to generate content and interact" I think, yes that is what i was going for. Then you give reasons for what my level of read should be and that I should read and come to wildly odd conclusion based on what I actually did.

I

[Fire Assassin]

Not in the mood for mafia games in general right now.

@Mod V/LA till the 6th.

[Fire Assassin]

I have no extreme issues with getting lynched, I don't see a purpose in a claim unless we decide to lynch me.
I don't believe this game has broken role/flavor reveals and if we don't lynch me it will only hurt the town if I reveal my role.

My thoughts on MM are mixed still, I can see reasons for him being bad town, but they are so diluted by just obviously anti town behavior and just emotional play that seems to baffle me. Normally I would say him wanting to lynch me because of my "toxic" behavior would be a town move, but he still says I am town, and I am unsure if he is really hunting for scum which worries me. I don't agree with him that I have been that toxic either, so I kind of think he is just upset I am scumreading him? I might be misreading that.

I might be leaning town on Infinity for his awful case on me, I am just curious why Lane is on me? FAQ2 seems to be just being opportunistic which brings back more points in his favor for being scum.

VOTE: FA_Q2

If its me or him, I have to stick true to the player I know is town.

[Fire Assassin]

I agree that lane's eagerness to jump on your wagon is scummy, Fire, by the sheer speed of it. He might just have wanted the day with a lynch, though.
Also, I don't think I've ever said that you're town. This post above might be my only townread on you.

I've been spending the last hour before the crash being ready to switch my vote, just in case. But seeing Fire like that is a real clincher. I don't need the money so I'll just let infinity hammer if he wants to.

You have stated you thought I was town implicitly at least 2-3 times or at the very least no alignment. You have stated I was scum after I was voting you and pressuring you. This post screams more scumminess in various places that I dont' think I need to point out.

[Fire Assassin]

We should all be following the plan of betting and giving the hands to our townread.
Right now I am curious on that kill?

BBT wasn't really trying in the game if my memory serves right.

[Fire Assassin]

I see that being useful in a situation where we have a non CCed town PR. Otherwise I don't see much use in making one person win all the hands just to make them bulletproof for a night.

Ewww no, it doesn't matter if they have a power role. You asking for a power role like this is kind of scummy.

[Fire Assassin]

I think I understand the BBT kill. It strikes me as kind of a "don't rock the boat" kill, to eliminate a strong player who hadn't really contributed much this far.
It reminds me of the droog kill in this game.
And I think what it suggests is that town's collective reads are way off, as they were in that game. I'm very disappointed that my MM/FA theory didn't end up being true, and I think that flip means that MM is town too. I definitely want to take a closer look at farside once again.

@Shadow: if only one person wins a hand in any given day, they will be bulletproof the following night. That's the mechanic that Fire wants to (ab)use by throwing hands to townreads.

I don't even know what you mean by most of this.

[Fire Assassin]

Who are we giving money to fire?

VOTE: something_smart

I actually think we should give it to Wingback, but I assume you think to yourself?

[Fire Assassin]

Fold

Fell behind a lot so I'm going to have to re-read from page one. I'm having problems with my vision over the past couple of weeks (blurry eyes) which makes reading really hard. I'm going to catch up with my other games first and then tackle this one after.

Wingback literally just fucked my whole plan in the ass.

I need to rethink this, I have to reexamine Lane to see if that is a good idea to give him it.

[Fire Assassin]

I wouldn't mind throwing hands to lane right now? His reaction seemed townie to me saying him too.

[Fire Assassin]

People are concentrating too much on the money and abilities instead of the actual game.

A similar thing happened in Blood borne, it was a large theme game which recently finished. Town ended up self destructing which cost us the game.

There's several differences between this and that but I won't bother going into them because it's irrelevant.

We are doing both but mostly should be reading players.

Which I think we should 100% lynch MM today

[Fire Assassin]

Vengeful doesn't work for night kills though, right?

[Fire Assassin]

I was confused. I was thinking the mafia who killed them died. Change of plans. No one is getting vengeful lol. We get like 5 people the jail keeper?

Dafuq what?
You've been on this site 5 years, don't tell me you've never encountered a vengeful before.
This looks like a fake town slip.

how would that be a town slip?
Thats him not understanding a role mechanic......
Like thats not exclusive to town, thats a dumbass slip lol. No offense Lane.

[Fire Assassin]

VOTE: Fire Assassin
I don't feel like this day is moving in a productive direction.

Okay, I remember specifically you saying you townread me yesterday.
This doesn't feel right at all:
VOTE: Something_Smart

You can call it omgus, but some things have been fishy with you.

[Fire Assassin]

Oh wow, in one page this game went from totally fine to a crap fest.
Persivul, please don't replace out. Firebringer's playing on his alt BECAUSE he wants to be more enjoyable to play with. And meta reads against people who are highly aware of their meta are not usually effective anyway.

I want to know where lane's scumread on me comes from.

Because ftr Firebringer has experience with me as both alignments and is quite good at reading me.

This had been bothering me all yesterday, and I wanted to leave Something_Smart alone to see what happened with it.

[Fire Assassin]

Bet $40

I have no idea why everyone is folding when we can organize this much better.
Just frustrating me and I am probably going to stop talking about this mechanic and just focusing on scumhunting.

I have town reads on Lane and Wingback,
I feel pretty confident on those, I am thinking that MM is scum, but unsure of allies still.
Something Smart possibly not sure on who with?

Farside I am null on but I could possibly see it.

TOo many preflip asosciations.

I say we flip MM today and if we are wrong we can reaccess.

ANyone elses thoughts? (Not on the poker mechanics that we obviously can't do)

[Fire Assassin]

Why don't you want to reassess first? I, at least, had a major scumread flip town.

I am not lynching you now, I think you should consider that a reassessment for that I could be wrong.
Now I find this even more scummy that you want to reaccess now, its like you know whats coming next and see your own lynch down the pipeline.

Ugh. Now I am just in tunnely a bit.
But you are off, and you don't sound genuine when you say you think I am scum in any sense of the word.

[Fire Assassin]

Umm... It's 11

Ah.

I don't know standards for 11 players.

its probably something like 2 scum and a traitor.
I think that would balanced for 11 players?

[Fire Assassin]

2 scum versus 9 town can be ridiculously scumsided depending on the setup. I doubt there's a traitor.

And what about my calling you scum doesn't sound genuine?

The fact you ask me to reconsider.

If I was scum, what point would there be for me to "reconsider" you?

It sounds like you are just trying to convince me to reanalyze you to come to a different conclusion.
If I was scum, it wouldn't matter my read on you at all. So you asking me to reaccess while you scum read, looks scummy and manipulative as all hell.

[Fire Assassin]

I was talking about MM. Yesterday we both scumread MM. Today you want to lynch him and then reconsider your reads, but he was one of the reads I wanted to reconsider.

But it still doesn't make sense even if you talk about someone else.
You say I am scum but you want me to reconsider reads, so either your scumread isn't strong and you think I am town, which the tone in your posts suggest you HIGHLY think I am town. Or you don't have a scumread on me.

[Fire Assassin]

See my problem Something Smart is, when I think someone is scum, I don't ask them to relook at their reads. I ask them "Why are your reads like this?" if I am unsure of them. If I probe deeper I think I get a better read, you telling me "You should recheck these" seems manipulative.

[Fire Assassin]

I don't think anyone will get vengeful anyways the way poker is going

The games are taking a long time, but thats because we were trying to formulate ap lan to organize, but we suck at that.

[Fire Assassin]

I'm folding because I have no interest in tossing the little that remains of my money to the first lucjy guy, that's pretty much that. Antes will probably eat at the rest of my wallet like popcorn but it barely matters at this point.

Lynching me is exactly what scum want you to do; it's the reason they left me alive in the first place since I wasn't BP. Now consider why I was left alive.

Possibly seeing me and farside as scum is kinda dumb imo, considering I've said I'm kinda scared of scum!farside, maybe you were too busy drowning in your own made-up scumtells on me to notice.

Lynching me is wasting the Tracker shot. This is complete and utter town sabotage, since the Tracker shot isn't given to anyone. This entire plan is dumbnut.

No, no, no, no.

You can't explain why scum left you alive, you can let others speculate, but you can't say "I am a mislynch bait" that makes it all null. Self awareness of the situation can be more scummy than town, if you understand you are likely lynch target that isn't more scummy I don't think, but its definitely not points in your favor.

And we all wanted you to fold anyways, because you are a scum suspect, why would we want you to win?

Also, why are you attacking you and farside as alignment but not any of my others, why does that sound more ridiculous beyond "I am scared of scum farside!" cause that doesn't sound like a actual reason for you two not being aligned?

Then you call my scumtells "fake", listen if I am faking it, I am scum, right?

WHy do i get sense of you keep going back and forth between wanting to call me town and wanting to call me just hard scum but don't want to commit.

[Fire Assassin]

MM may not have strong reads, but he definitely has strong opinions...

I agree with the part where there's no case on MM.

Multiple people have pointed out at scummy/suspicious things MM has said...what are you talking about that their is no case?

[Fire Assassin]

I just quoted something they said a page ago, and called out bad reasoning, and suspicious thinking.
You can't pretend like you don't see it, you either aren't reading or just ignoring posts.

[Fire Assassin]

Bad reasoning has already been established and certainly not a scumtell...

afaik mm always thought you were scum too so yeah

And that's the extent of your argument.

I want to know why you scumread mm on d1, otherwise you clearly just made up stuff today to justify your read where you had nothing to begin with.

You can read my ISO and see where I pointed out scum behavior from him.
Stop faking this dumbness. I was reading him scummy half way through day 1. What the fuck are you talking about.

He wasn't always reading me as scum either, he basically said he had a null then excused it as voting scum read, then said things that make it look like he is town reading me but still pushing me.

[Fire Assassin]

Yes, would you like to dissect why I am wrong, or all you just going to dismiss the entire case without going into detail like you have been doing?

[Fire Assassin]

Quote wall of saying "no evidence" (which evidence would be feedback of some sort or what?), You then state I have a case and that its bullshit and fabricated, and I don't have any reasons. WHat?

YOU SAID I HAD A CASE. YOU CAN SAY ITS A BAD CASE BUT WHAT DO YOU MEAN ITS BULLSHIT?

I am so done with you.
Lynching MM today, shooting you tonight.
Yes, I have a gun.

You are dying.

[Fire Assassin]

Alright you're going to have to say them again, I certainly haven't seen any good reason to scumread mm. It's possible I skimmed over them cause I really just didn't see it.

Don't bother to pretend to skim, you are dying tonight regardless.

[Fire Assassin]

It's really not a good idea to kill me tonight.

Shooting scum is always good idea.

[Fire Assassin]

Also, I was scared of scum!farside because you (as well as a bunch of other people) are just licking her feet and guess what? She's antagonizing me too. It's worth a scumread. Keep in mind, y'all were scumreading Magna, but now farside has replaced it's like she's town regardless of slot. Disgusting.
I don't exactly recall where I called your reads fake, but I think my scumread on you is set in stone. The more I tried to play like you're town, the more you make me scumread you. I read you as scum for life, and so until the game proves me wrong, but one thing's for sure, you won't.

Few things here:

1) When has anyone been licking Farside boots and
2) Where has anyone called her strong town? or even massively switched reads on the slot?
I know I have her as weak town at best right now and thats a recent development.

Your scumread is "set in stone"? Okay. Good work.

[Fire Assassin]

Shooting scum? With what? You can't even. Now you're just being a retard.

I am a vigilante. Do you think the only power roles town has are hte ones from these poker matches? Ha, thats funny.

[Fire Assassin]

I changed my reads a bunch, but fire was town reading me for my push and now is scum reading me for it, it just doesn't make sense.

Right now I am definitely fine with scum!mm 1v1ing a townie, but I am a little biased cause I think he's town

I was townreading you and now you make no sense, like your defense of MM its full of clutter that just assumes he is town, without going into what makes him town. You keep using "newb town" as a crux to the argument. You also say there is no case, when numerous people point out reasons and you outright dismiss most without touching them on any detail beyond "they are wrong". Like explain more detail on why MM is town, or take apart our arguments without outright dismisisng them.

Like your read on him makes no sense to me. It just assumes everything he does is "town".

[Fire Assassin]

You would definitely have killed me if given the chance last night. This is a fakeclaim for sure. Even if there is a power role, I'm sure it's NOWHERE this powerful. Because really in this way you don't benefit from anyone getting money from poker hands.

VOTE: Fire Assassin
Anything else can slide, but the sheer amount of stupidity and plot hole logic in you is enough for me to blow a lid right now.

Any person who has the vigilante role should be careful about early shooting because thats when your reads are weakest.

[Fire Assassin]

Fold

Lets move the games on faster.

[Fire Assassin]

i am doing it tomorrow, if I am around, since the BP can only go to Shadow_step and he isn't a strong townread for me.

[Fire Assassin]

I really don't want to dissect that iso he did of me.

@SS How can you be scumreading me and MM? When did MM claim a PR?

[Fire Assassin]

This game isn't worth the headache:
VOTE: MM

Don't remember why I was voting SS over MM, but he is also in my scum pool.
Shooting Infinity tonight.
MM gets lynched today.

That about settles it.

[Fire Assassin]

Are you seriously going to make me fullclaim dude -_-

It won't matter cause you are dead tonight.

[Fire Assassin]

Like you could claim full blown cop who has a innocent on mm and I would call bullshit and still shoot you.

[Fire Assassin]

Fuck you dude, you're an SK and you're not even playing to your wincon.

I'm an odd-night cop with an inno on wingback.

Nice, you don't even have a check on MM the person who you been defending all day?
Biggest fat lie ever.

If I am SK, why aren't you voting me? Why was there only one death yesterday?
Try to be better at lying.

[Fire Assassin]

Fuck me, what if the whole thing is a mafia gambit

One second I was a SK, now I am mafia. LOL.
Like dude, keep the story straight for a minute.

Key tips for your future lies. Keep the story simple.
Make sure everything seems reasonable. For instance a check on Wingback makes very little sense.
Then when you call someone scum, make sure you keep to the same story.

[Fire Assassin]

Ughh this is so stupid

Can we please just lynch fire

We can totally do that.
Tomorrow, after I shot you, if you flip town.

But you won't.

[Fire Assassin]

Well that's cause your conf biased as fuck

Giving away $200 is a pretty big deal, I wouldn't have done it in town!mm's position but as scum!mm it makes no sense.

I don't understand how its a big deal if everyone asked him to do it, he caved basically into pressure, when everyone pressuring him he called scum or anti town.

Like, if I was in the mental state that he is trying to display in his posts. I would have 100% not given in and kept my money and said "no, I know my alignment, I am not giving into my scumreads to give up my money"

Like....can you not see the flip side, you say we conf bias, but so do you!

[Fire Assassin]

You were supposedly convinced I was scum...

My gut says town mm could cave in to pressure with that mental state.

Your scum or VI, and I am still shooting you.

[Fire Assassin]

Why do scum all of a sudden care about pr's? The mm is alive because scum supposedly don't care about pr's. But now you can't believe they'd give 200 away?

This i have to agree on, if scum were so worried about power roles and mm is town, they would have killed him over BBT.

[Fire Assassin]

What makes you think I "could" be scum ?

I have a town lean on lane and farside is nullish town.
Scum lean on MM and RC.
FA is prob town to, but I can't really say.
It doesn't make sense for town FA to claim vig when he was no under pressure what so ever.
If scum have a roleblocker or jailkeeper or any such role which prevents FA from shooting they'll keep doing that to him to wifom us or just hope he shoots a town or just kill him off.
It also could be scum gambit between you and FA, something you planned at night to clear whoever comes out of that alive for the rest of the game.

You're nullish scum for me.

Smart and wingback are null.

Can you g into why wingback is null?
Infnity claims a "clear" on him, which that doesn't mean infinity is bullshitting it means its highly likely a correct result regardless. As scum him wants it credible and town him obviously telling truth.

Also your theory on me and Infinity is really out there.

[Fire Assassin]

I have been avoiding this game awhile because of recent events and because I have been wanting to use my vig shot on like a third of the aliving player base.
I am leaning heavily that Farside is town right now, and i could possibly see RC being scum. I don't know where someone said RC or Farside, but I doubt heavily on farside based on what I think of as normal scum play and she hasn't displayed any of those traits to me.

[Fire Assassin]

VOTE: Infinity

[Fire Assassin]

^^ town

In other news, shadow's rage about being wagoners reads town to me.

how......

[Fire Assassin]

ow is any of this town?
You vote who you think is scum and not which wagon is most likely to go through, especially when there is NP case on them.

If this is town we deserve to lose. I can't be arsed anymore.

VOTE: Shadow Step
I don't like the AtE used here, I think its completely out of place and fake.

[Fire Assassin]

GIVE ME ONE REASON WHY YOU THINK I'M SCUM.

Fake AtE?

[Fire Assassin]

Fire: While your around, can you explain why you have a scum read on RC, but vote for Shadow for a weak reason.

RC for me can be wrong and I think I can tell AtE is fake better. Why do you think that reason is weak?

[Fire Assassin]

Wingback is conf town regardless. Thats like the easiest clear you could have made ever, everyone was townreading them anyways.

[Fire Assassin]

You just said way more than you were supposed to.

[Fire Assassin]

Raise to $400

I will probably fold to give the BP to Lane at this point.
I will discuss my thoughts soon, but I wanted to save my shot another possible night if I lived. I figured it infinity was scum, then I would be shot, so my thoughts right now is infinity might be town. Why not kill me if I was going to be confirmed as soon as he flipped scum?

[Fire Assassin]

Why smart instead of shadow?

Interaction with fire from yesterday.
See how shadow attacks fire and Fire is just making a crappie reason for the vote.
Smart seems to blame me for making a case and acts like that's scummy.
I don't get that.

Wait I am lost, why are you scumreading me now?

[Fire Assassin]

I don't believe you.

Okay, you want to go into why you think I will fold?

[Fire Assassin]

I don't believe you.

Okay, you want to go into why you think I wont fold?

Fixed

[Fire Assassin]

Man I should've trusted my gut on shadow

Anyway fire's claim is confirmed bullshit

It's fire/shadow, let's do it.

VOTE: fire

My claim is legit, but you seem to suggest you have checked shadow?
So perhaps you lied about your own role a bit.

Explanations are needed.

[Fire Assassin]

Right now, I am mixed on you farside, first off I don't know how you can still be confident in your reads at all, this flip on your reads I can't see the progression in at all.

I would expect town to show some doubt, but your confidence seems awfully high. I don't even understand why it is like that. You told me not to shoot infinity, and I didn't. How are you scumreading me right now for not shooting him?

[Fire Assassin]

1) lane stated he was betting his max already
2) you thought you were going to be killed but didn't shoot?
*cough bullshit cough*

I think theres a chance that if I shot wrong, the game auto ends. I don't want to go into post game and hear complaints for shooting a town investigative.

Now, I figured given my role, I would be shot if Infinity was actually scum. since I made no doubt about my role.

Can you explain why this doesn't make sense from my point of view? Essentially I called a bluff on scum, the fact they didn't go for me tells me that its likely not Infinity. So my read on him is likely wrong.

Even if lane bet his max, he can still win this hand if I fold.

[Fire Assassin]

Given a possibility that this is a possible maybe LYLO, we should mass claim btw.
I have already claimed as Infinity.

Popcorn will go to you Farside.

[Fire Assassin]

I gave reasons for scumreading you, what are you talking about this "no reason". You are completely change the script of events that happened.

I and several others called MM scum, you discredited and called all of our reads bad, I said you were scum or VI and I said I was going to shot yu, because you were not going into detail with your reads. I decided not to, but you saying I had no reason to scumread you is questionable at best.

[Fire Assassin]

I don't understand why you still don't think theres high probability that MM is scum, given the fact I never said I was going to shoot him. That he has the most money, so him having a night ability is likely, so why is he alive?

You still not thinking on this.

[Fire Assassin]

Fire and shadow have been coasting along,

I may start going into AtE if you say I have been coasting. You can call me scum or whatever, but never you dare say I have been coasting. I swear to god it will drive me insane.

[Fire Assassin]

Not going to lynch today: Infinity 324, Lane, farside

Possitive a scum or two is in this: Something_Smart, Mathblade, Shadow_Step,

[Fire Assassin]

Fire is clever, he found a way to stop his failed push on me and found a way out of proving his big claim at the same time. Doesn't make him any less scum though.

PEdit: and then when I explained my read you didn't pay any attention to it...

PEdit 2: scum wanted to leave their mislynch options open apparently.

PEdit 3: well you haven't been coasting as much as shadow I guess

I am very confused with the beginning on found a way to stop a failed push and proving my claim, what? How are those related in this?


1) Your explanation was that "this isn't how newbscum play" which we all critized, then you claimed invest and you didn't even have a check on him. Your read was inexplictly strong and you shot anyone elses thoughts down because "not how newb scum" , like seriously I can quote 2 other people saying your argument was weak if not just outright dismissive of our points without going into your own read.


2) If math/mm have a guilty on a player through tracking, we are likely going to follow that. So why would they risk this just to "leave options open.

3) Thanks for saying I haven't "coasted as much". Right.

[Fire Assassin]

Doesn't make him any less scum though.

Wait wait wait wait. Do you think I am a scum vig or a Serial Killer.
I really want to go into this.

[Fire Assassin]

You came up with an explanation for both you not shooting and for me being town based on your claim.

And also I made a whole case on mm but everyone just ignored it and continued on.

PEdit: wingback convinced me you could be mafia yesterday, didn't really think about mafia claiming vig but that seems to be what's happening

Okay, so you think I planned to claim vigi to push you, then when I didn't shoot I would claim it was ploy to see if I would die and thus clear you. Honestly, I wish I would come up with something like this in my next scum game. I haven't tried a scum ploy since my horrible attempt at trying to fool RC by claiming BP and doing a no kill. That was a disaster.

Your case on mm was in a nutshell "newb player", that was what I heard, thats what I saw. I am not going to go into this debate anymore because its useless.

Didn't wingback have me as town? I honestly don't remember his reads.

[Fire Assassin]

You could seriously easily put that into spoilers to save me the trouble, I am legit annoyed at seeing that huge quote wall. I kind of wish I did shoot you right now.

[Fire Assassin]

Not going to lynch today: Infinity 324, Lane, farside

Possitive a scum or two is in this: Something_Smart, Mathblade, Shadow_Step,

Going to correct this for the time being:
Mathblade is 100% off the table today.

I think she is likely town, I was rereading some stuff on day 1 and read Wingback case. Then scanned through ISO of MM. I don't like his posts, but he could be townie.

So right now:
Not Lynching Today: Infinity, Lane, Mathblade
Wouldn't mind pressuring, but not likely going to lynch: Farside
Woul Lynch: Shadow_Step, Something_Smart

[Fire Assassin]

Can we just lynch this already

No way you're suddenly convinced that slot is town

No, because we have plenty of time to discuss, and we need to organize the night so that town gets BP and tracker.

You rushing a lynch this early into the day is reckless and anti town.

[Fire Assassin]

My current guess for scum is

farside/Infinity/shadow.

Don't rush things though because I'm V/LA with bad mobile access only until Tuesday, and I might want to make a case or two.

Wait what?
I really want to hear more on this.

[Fire Assassin]

Also given that we might be in LYLO I wonder if it's a good idea to massclaim.

Pedid: what about it?

Okay, why those three specifically.
I can kind of see a Infinity/Farside team but I still don't think Infinity is likely based on my own actions.
Why wouldn't the scum just kill me if I was already planning to kill one of their own?

I can see farside trying to convince me to shoot MM instead of Infinity as being trying to direct me to shoot poorly if she is scum.

I don't understand your reasoning on those three individually and on a team.

[Fire Assassin]

I am going to go to sleep soon.

I am not willing to lynch Infinity on any circumstance today. Scum would be forced to kill him if he is what he claims or he has to clear another player if he is scum.

[Fire Assassin]

1) you could have shot night 1
So this excuse just looks like crap.

Why would I shot night 1 when reads are the weakest, I subbed in when we were half way through day 1 and you think I would be confident enough to shoot then? I am a 1-shot. Why would I waste my shot so early when my reads were just forming.

[Fire Assassin]

That's fair, but why do you think Infinity is scum?

I haven't said he was scum, the only way he is scum is if it was with you or if scum have a roleblocker thats on me to prevent me from shooting him.

The fact I am not dead told me he is likely actually town.

[Fire Assassin]

You were voting him day 2 and talked about shooting him.

I am talking about today, I was scumreading him. I also was starting lean towards possibility of being wrong on him later in the stages of day 2.

You are right, I was. For some reason I thought you meant today. My read has changed.

[Fire Assassin]

Also I have right now $820 dollars that I am going to be giving all away today regardless to my strongest town read, which right now is Lane.

I suggest you all fold on the hand and I will too, so he can get BP and the money.

[Fire Assassin]

What do you think of shadow currently?

I have no strong thoughts on him and he is in my possible scum pool and would lynch pool.
I said yesterday I didn't like his thoughts. I want him to go more into his reads.

Something_Smarts reads are the most odd to me though right now, that I can't figure out how they make sense.

[Fire Assassin]

Everyone claimed except for mathblade

Odd-night cop + 8 VT's vs. 2 scum? Kind of an odd setup but could be balanced

The game has potentially high number of trackers (3 or higher I believe based on starting money), and I am a Vigi also.

[Fire Assassin]

Mathblade quick question: Did you get a decent read of the thread before you picked your action?

[Fire Assassin]

I am at a loss for words for how math figured thinking tracking a person who had a innocent result on them, even if they doubted the person who claimed the inno. Like....that makes no sense to me at all.

[Fire Assassin]

I am at a loss for words for how math figured thinking tracking a person who had a innocent result on them, even if they doubted the person who claimed the inno. Like....that makes no sense to me at all.

[Fire Assassin]

Its like, the chances of all the town being wrong about 1 person being town is VERY VERY LOW.
How can you first check the person everyone townread, which lane said and we pointed out day 2,
Then you check him with a track when he had a inno on him already.

I am just so fucking done with the lot of you.

[Fire Assassin]

The sad thing is. I can totally see mathblade doing that as town.

[Fire Assassin]

I am so close to replacing out.

[Fire Assassin]

They could yes. However that is extremely dumb play as scum. Since we are down to 7-2 then I am assuming scum aren't stupid because they can be tracked. If Infinity gets caught visiting anyone who they don't innocent they are done and I would instant vote them.

While I am not the best reader as town I do have a good hold on mechanics so if Infinity is scum he would know I would check him or Wingback.

It is possible that they faked a read on Wingback then killed them but then came back and townfirmed me and planned to kill me.

Proper mechanical play says the day before LyLo you lynch the cop but I have a pretty good town read on Infinity.

No it isn't dumb scum play. You pocket a town by clearing one person, and if you can't pocket them you kill them. Which could have been what happened but its unlikely.

Why would Infinity think you check him? He claimed to be ODD night?

[Fire Assassin]

I want mathblade gone.
I should have shot them.

Like seriously, if I knew this what I would be expecting. Should have done that.

[Fire Assassin]

I want mathblade gone.
I should have shot them.

Like seriously, if I knew this what I would be expecting. Should have done that.

This doesn't correspond to what you are saying in thread. Why would you want to shoot someone you'd never want to lynch?

VOTE: Fire Assassin

I am fine with this.

[Fire Assassin]

All I want to post is just angry posts, that are just going to turn this game toxic. I am going to try my best to avoid that as much as possible but honestly, I feel the anger rising from my chest extremely. I don't want repeats of recent finished games.

@MathBlade You need to adjust your play so that you can adjust for how PEOPLE play the game, and not how a MACHINE would play the game. Optimal player doesn't mean everyone plays like that. You are one of the few who would operate on the thoughts and thinking you would. You need to get inside the mind of others and not just assume everyone plays like you.


Theres my rant.

[Fire Assassin]

@Fire Assassin -- Who have you shot at?

If you have been reading you would know nobody.

[Fire Assassin]

@Fire Assassin -- Who have you shot at?

If you have been reading you would know nobody.

I am reading as fast as I can but I don't believe you because reasons.

Go on.....

[Fire Assassin]

Not enough troll posts. The Firebringer head of the hydra doesn't play like you are as town.

Ohhh fuck no you didn't

VOTE: Mathblade

[Fire Assassin]

I don't care about the logical part of me that saying this is awful anymore. No, just no.

[Fire Assassin]

Lane, want to know something funny about mathblade?
Me and them just played a game recently not to long ago, it was on this account.

Now she is quoting a meta on Firebringer and using that t read me here.

I am just laughing so hard at this.

[Fire Assassin]

Not enough troll posts. The Firebringer head of the hydra doesn't play like you are as town.

Ohhh fuck no you didn't

VOTE: Mathblade

I did. Firebringer buddies as town and trolls. Look at 1800. That is what I expect of town Firebringer.

Lane + FA = scum team

Me and my "scumbuddy" are going to lynch you. Eat it.
Then I am going to shoot one of Something_Smart or SHadow_Step.

[Fire Assassin]

I mean here:
Recent Game

I am town, do a simple ISO, am I trolling or buddying at all in that? Ummm not even close.

[Fire Assassin]

I mean here:
Recent Game

I am town, do a simple ISO, am I trolling or buddying at all in that? Ummm not even close.

Yes that entire game was trolling suggestion of mass claim partners.

Can you honestly believe that?

The partner revealing by multiple people said it wasn't troll and it was a fine suggestion.
Are you still going to argue the merit of your argument when most people don't agree with you, and it was by far not even remotely "troll" as it was legitimate.

[Fire Assassin]

I gotta go but it is fire and FA and infinity confirmed town.

I am FA.

[Fire Assassin]

Lane, whats your thoughts on probability this is Shadow and Mathblade.
Think about it, many players came in here saying to lynch me or Shadow.
So Mathblade seeing this decides to push me.

I think this is reasonable.

[Fire Assassin]

There could be a cop guilty on lane in this game and I still wouldn't lynch him.

[Fire Assassin]

Fold

Hey Titus, I hope you bring some sanity into this game.

[Fire Assassin]

While I'm thinking, math, are you only voting fire because of his claim?

No. His claim contributes but is not part of the reason I am voting them.

Advocating for the lynching of town and the not lynching of Mafia is scums wincon. Fire does it here. Brazenly. Call my play idiotic I understand. But if you believe I am the town idiot then your vote should be somewhere else.

I no longer believe you are merely a town idiot.
You quoting a meta on me has made me believe you are indeed scum.

I don't think mathblade town would care for meta in the least, if you were town you would simply push for what I do here as simply anti town and scummy, but you made the mistake of quoting a meta that was false.

[Fire Assassin]

Then says in thread multiple times "I am going to shoot X player"

First it was infinity. Then there was some MM.

But when I ask them today it is no one.

The more likely thing is I should have tracked fire assassin and I fucked up. In a 13 player game with 2 mislynches already you fucking shoot already because we have 4 town dead. This means 7 alive. A mislynch here means 5 alive and 2 are scum. Which means Fire if a vig cannot shoot incorrectly or we lose. They only times he could shoot is if we lynch correctly now. Pretty much supposedly not doing anything with the vig ability is stupid. I expected two deaths today or Wingback to do the kill because of infinity's cop claim. Neither happened.

For the final time, this is not a 13 player game. Its 11 player. We have said this 4 times at least

.

[Fire Assassin]

Titus, theres no point in reading the thread you should vote your sister and we should lynch them today 100%.

[Fire Assassin]

god damn it Fire I am on 4 hours of sleep and going to have one of the most important days of my life and quite frankly I made a typo because the 1 and 3 are so damn close. My logic in that post is bloody consistent with an 11 p game.

You just want to wriggle out of this.

That wasn't my main point, I like you ignored your own usage of meta as an argument.

And it is sibling not sister. <<See pronoun on left. They

I have called you they almost in every instance.

[Fire Assassin]

And if you have serious real life things to worry about it, go on V/LA.

[Fire Assassin]

Fire is "saving the shot" because he's scum and he doesn't have one.

No one got a BP on d1 because we wanted to get a couple power roles going, I believe.

1) Not scum and I do have one. You should honestly thank me for not shooting you.

2) We didn't do that at all actually, and I was the first one who said we should organize the poker to give powers to town and make sure most townread person got the BP, no one followed this plan. But I was first to suggest using it in that fashion, shockingly.

[Fire Assassin]

Infinity scumread on me makes no sense honestly.
He thinks:

1) I am scum
2) I am fake claiming vig.

When I claimed vig, why couldn't I just shoot him last night and say that was a vig kill rather than scum kill? It would be easy enough to do given I said I would shoot him. Then say "somehow no scum kill, don't know why".

Why would I not shoot him? If he is telling truth on his claim he can check another person tonight, and if he wins the poker I wouldn't be able to kill him as scum.

How does any of my plan make sense to this.

[Fire Assassin]

All the better to dictate his shot now then. If he's scum, it forces the scum to kill math and claim the scumkill vanished, which should then be exposed on massclaim. Otherwise, he has to claim it failed and forces scum to protect math or forces fire scum to argue they did.

Vigs should almost always done as dual lynch imo.

I am not a day vig.
And I am not shooting math, we are lynching math.
And we already did mass claim.

[Fire Assassin]

Why does it matter to you how math dies? Dead is dead.

Why does it matter to you either than? I can flip it on you too.

[Fire Assassin]

I believe everyone claimed VT but me and Infinity.
the game is 1 day shot vig and a odd night invest.

Given poker abilities, I guess this is balanced? Its very odd, but theres potentially about 3-4 other powers town could get, or scum.
So it can be swingy.

[Fire Assassin]

I believe everyone claimed VT but me and Infinity.
the game is 1 shot vig and a odd night invest.

Given poker abilities, I guess this is balanced? Its very odd, but theres potentially about 3-4 other powers town could get, or scum.
So it can be swingy.

Corrected.

[Fire Assassin]

Why does it matter to you how math dies? Dead is dead.

Why does it matter to you either than? I can flip it on you too.

By using your shot as a dual lynch, town gets a second lynch. That matters plenty.

So why is Math being lynched worth sacrificing an extra lynch over?

Thats not how vigilantes work.

[Fire Assassin]

Speaking of massclaim, we just massclaimed and there are no PR's other than us two.

If you said the scum shot disappeared, no doctor would basically confirm you as scum.

I'd be fine with lynching shadow today and forcing fire to prove his shot again, but then he can just claim roleblocked...

answer my previous post about why I didn't shoot you.
You claiming theres a doc in this is just making me question your judgement more.

[Fire Assassin]

They can if we as a town agree they do.

I am not cooperating with the town. You can lynch me, but I am not following your rules.

[Fire Assassin]

Infinity, your argument makes no sense:
First you say I am scum who is faking vigi or something when I pointed out how easy it would be to shoot you regardless.
Second you don't consider why keeping you alive for this day is bad because I wouldn't be able to kill you as scum, and you would be able to get another results.
Third, you are bad.

[Fire Assassin]

If you said you shot me and there was no other scum kill, and no one claimed doc, that would be very suspicious.

Idk why you didn't NK me but I wasn't exactly conf town

It would be suspicious but I could argue it being theres a hidden doc.
Or say that both me and scum killed a power role, which is likely possibility.

Like just because theres on kill doesn't mean it was only attacked once.

[Fire Assassin]

I really kind of don't want you to win the BP today, I want Titus too.
Because scum literally have to kill you tonight or it clears another player.
No other option, and it makes me certain avoids paranoia on my part about you.

[Fire Assassin]

Well first of all you said lane should get the BP not me which is suspicious in and of itself

And I feel you might have a strongman or smth by the way you kept pushing for the money-dumping plan

PEdit: yeah but it still looks pretty suspicious.

I have literally been pushing for money on anyone but me, how in the hell are you scumreading me for my money plan. When I have never once pushed the idea for me to get items or money.

You are beyond ridiculous.

I am not going to say I have been the most town person this whole game, but that plan alone was the most townie thing in this game, and to you too twist it to call it part of some masterplan is beyond me.

[Fire Assassin]

I want to form a list of people I call:
Scum or Stupid.

[Fire Assassin]

I may just replace out.

[Fire Assassin]

48 hours, if Mathblade isn't lynched in 48 hours. I am out.

[Fire Assassin]

I am not giving in to blackmail. I am not voting Math when the vig can shoot them. There's zero reason to.

Your attitude of my lynch or I quit is toxic as hell.

The game is pretty toxic, and I am not blackmailing you, you guys are trying to strongarm me into doing what you want.
Like, what I am doing is evening out the playing field.

I don't have time to argue something I know you are going to ignore to favor your own logic.

I need to get stuff done, if I can't theres no reason in me playing.

[Fire Assassin]

Still waiting for us to lynch Mathblade.

[Fire Assassin]

I really don't see Fire as scum.
I've been pretty wrong with my reads so don't mind me at all.

Didn't you have a scumread on me or was leaning on me as a possibility at the start of the day?

[Fire Assassin]

It literally is blackmail.

It actually isn't.
Titus should also know it isn't blackmail.

Blackmail is when I am holding information that you don't want to be made public and use it to force you to do something.

What I am doing is more closely related to is Extortion.
Making threats or using force to get what I want.

They are similar, but from a legal aspect, they are different.

Meh. Not really relevant though.

[Fire Assassin]

Raise to 200

I am getting rid of all my money this round.

[Fire Assassin]

Mod: Can we have notice before autofold? Like a timer? I didn't know which way I wanted to go.

I check on this hand.

Math, any reason you didn't fold?

Lane said he didn't have any money left, so I think you auto were going to fold regardless.

[Fire Assassin]

I am discussing my thoughts towards the authenticity of both Fire and Infinity's claims.

To me it does not make sense to leave three power roles alive. Anyone not voting in me/Infinity/Fire has to explain that. Granted I know I am town but from an outside POV I am still an option to be lynched.

A confirmed town is less valuable a shot because we were already shooting ourselves in the foot with these mislynches.

We need to get our shit together now.

You are not a power role. You bought a 1 shot Tracker, its not the same thing.
And you tracked someone completely worthless. Who likely was going to get NK because he was townread by all and cleared by a player.

You trying to PoE this game through claims to me is ridiculous since theres only two real power role claims. Yours doesn't count.

[Fire Assassin]

@Fire -- How is it relevant how often something happens? That is gambler's fallacy. What needs to be determined is what happened here.

I don't know what your talking about here.
I think your talking about how often a player does something? Or I referred to situations in which a player is more often/likely to do X. That isn't gamblers fallacy. Gamblers fallacy relates to when events are in a completely random scenario and you are betting on odds because of past historical events. Players are not random, so they don't pertain to the gamblers fallacy.

If I said "Math, you are scum because the last several games you have been town, so you are due for a scum game" that would be gamblers fallacy.

[Fire Assassin]

1) you could have shot night 1
So this excuse just looks like crap.

Why would I shot night 1 when reads are the weakest, I subbed in when we were half way through day 1 and you think I would be confident enough to shoot then? I am a 1-shot. Why would I waste my shot so early when my reads were just forming.

Because you said you would.

I never said I would shoot someone Night 1.
Way to mislead with false info.

[Fire Assassin]

-Players will be aware of how much money they have, but will not know how much other players have remaining. It is ok for a player to claim how much money they have remaining.

Yeah, you can't ask the mod how much money everyone has.

[Fire Assassin]

No I am not. If I live until tomorrow then whichever of infinity or Fire Assassin is scum have to hope and pray to god I didn't track them. I literally either townfirm Infinity or FIre Assassin.

You assume that there has to be 1 scum in us two which is a false dichotomy you are making.

[Fire Assassin]

@Fire -- Would you call your hand the best thing since sliced bread?

Why does it matter what my hand is?
I am going to fold as soon as Infinity raises anyways.

Are you not even following what i have been saying?

[Fire Assassin]

Fire -- Any reason you raised?

I told you what my motivation is.
I told you what I am doing.

You aren't trying to sort me at all.

Its so obvious you aren't even doing the basic thing of reading my posts to understand my actions.

Can we lynch this?

[Fire Assassin]

No I am not. If I live until tomorrow then whichever of infinity or Fire Assassin is scum have to hope and pray to god I didn't track them. I literally either townfirm Infinity or FIre Assassin.

You assume that there has to be 1 scum in us two which is a false dichotomy you are making.

Yes because there is no way a odd night cop and vig make it past the review board in an 11 player game!

THERES NO REVIEW BOARD FOR MINI THEMES!

NONE

ONE PERSON REVIEWED IT
ONE

[Fire Assassin]

And I don't think you will. I don't trust you.

Ummm I folded last hand, when I had a better hand than infinity probably.
So given my track record for telling the truth on hands is....2-0
I would say I am more trustworthy than you.

[Fire Assassin]

I hope its you.

[Fire Assassin]

Why are you using my RL initials if you mean me? And if you are how did you know them instead of correcting the typo?

I have no clue what your RL initials are

I'm sure you are the only one with M as the starting letter.

Anyway just to be clear and mod convenience

VOTE: MB

You know I feel like I am going to be an asshole by saying this, but if you want to be 100% clear, you could type out the players full name.
But thats just me.

[Fire Assassin]

Call Infinity's bet 5 minutes before otherwise required to fold.

Why is smart town Math?

You can't do this.
Lane said he had no money, you are either lying or being extremely scummy right now since this means lane lied and your trying to take a bp away.

[Fire Assassin]

Raise to 250

Not letting Titus fuck up the poker games.

V/LA til the site gets its shit together.

[Fire Assassin]

Do you not get my problem of you being able to call at all? Lane said he had basically no money, you shouldn't be able to call with nothing.