NY 170: Georgetown II (Game Over)
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Bulbazak Survivor
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/confirm
I can already tell it's going to be that kind of game...Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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Vote Emeraldemon
Saying stuff after game begins that could have easily been said in confirmation stage means it's only for towncred.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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Well, that's all I needed.
Unvote
Vote Garmr
Just wanted to make sure that my thoughts on a Garmr/Emo scum team were not unfounded.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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I love the sound of chainsaw in the morning.
A lot of the pregame Emo exchange didn't feel natural, leading me to the conclusion that there was some scum theatre going on. I didn't think all 3 were scum, just Emo and one of her attackers. I just didn't know which one. Garmr's posts have not been at the level I expected to see from him as town. Not only that, but he is focused on the popular wagons, as seen with the Aegor wagon (And let's not even get started with calling a 1v1 but not committing to it.). I actually agree that Garmr's push on Aegor is opportunistic and he's misrepped him several times, but I wanted to make sure about the connection I saw before I voted, and I still didn't want to let go of Emerald, since I was still trying to figure out his alignment (leaning town, btw). Then Emo hard defended Garmr from Aegor, which solidified the connection I had made in pregame (the whole dayvig thing was fake). And guess what happened? If you guessed she chainsawed some more and voted me after I voted Garmr, you just won a new car.In post 135, Maestro wrote:
Bulba the fuck are you on aboutIn post 132, Bulbazak wrote:Well, that's all I needed.
Unvote
Vote Garmr
Just wanted to make sure that my thoughts on a Garmr/Emo scum team were not unfounded.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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I don't think she saw herself as being obvious.In post 140, Maestro wrote:IYO she's that much of a Newb to so obviously connect to her partner D1, out of RVS?Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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So you decided to cut off all discussion regarding his actions?Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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Because that's how I scum hunt. I look for scum motivation and intent in posts, and I also look at connections that can be used later for PoE. Sometimes those connections can make all the difference, and if you are successful in figuring out the scum team early, you can knock them down like dominoes.In post 146, emogirl123 wrote:I don't care what he says, it is noise. I care why you are making associations of two unflipped players.
Day vig gambits are very common on the site, and as a result, they're fairly well known to be fake a large percentage of the time. That means that such a gambit is not hard to fake as scum. I wouldn't award any sort of towncred for that gambit, especially not when made in pregame, where there is no way a mod would actually accept the actions of a dayvig.In post 148, emogirl123 wrote:QT was open at the time, so seeing that all three of your scum mates are not PR, he goes and attempts to use a day vig as a trap?
Actually, it's pretty serious, especially for the early game. I have very good scumreads on the pair, and I plan to pursue them.In post 156, Maestro wrote: 1) Bulba's "accusation" doesn't look at all serious to me, it was the first time in his ISO (3 posts total) that he'd mentioned either one of you.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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Yes, it's called reading and observing actions. The only thing that made me think there might be a connection between you 2 was my feeling that the pregame back and forth was scum theatre. I needed a lot more to go on to pursue it seriously, and I much preferred pressuring others. Garmr started scumming the place up, and then you started defending him and his actions against all who came. The pieces fell into place, and I pursued my read.In post 165, emogirl123 wrote: So he thought Garmr/Emo scum team might be unfounded, but now he is sure Garmr/emo scum team is not unfounded.
You were explaining? Funny, when I look in the dictionary, I do not see "the process of attacking a person and voting them" under the definition of explaining.In post 165, emogirl123 wrote: I defend Garmr by stating my town read on him and ask him to explain why Garmr/emo scum team is no longer unfounded. He responds stating that I was chainsawing Garmr.
The logical course of action would have been to ask me about my read. Instead, you attacked me right out of the gate, and furthermore, you just focused on Garmr, and not yourself or the connection between you 2. But if you feel you have to continue defending this lie since you backed yourself into a corner, go right ahead.In post 165, emogirl123 wrote: Now why do I need to wait for Garmr to respond when I want Bulbazak to explain his reads since his attack is on Garmr/Emogirl, not Garmr independently?
I feel I've been pretty clear. I had an early inclination of possible scum theatre. I watched Garmr scum it up and wondered if I was right. I then saw Emo defend him against all his accusers. After that I voted and pursued my reads. What are you unclear on?In post 166, Maestro wrote:
...yup now you're not making sense.In post 164, Bulbazak wrote:Actually, it's pretty serious, especially for the early game. I have very good scumreads on the pair, and I plan to pursue them.
Do tell.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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He may have just not been aware of the actual definition of mountainous. I, for example, thought mountainous games were games where town outnumbered scum by a larger amount than the typical 1:3 ratio.In post 167, emogirl123 wrote: You misunderstand the point I was trying to make. I don't think Garmr was aware that this game was mountainous. This is likely to be because he is not scum. ISO him for proof.
P-edit: Yes, at the very bottom of the post where you vote and attack me for voting Garmr.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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If he had read the opening post he'd know this game has no PRs. I'm saying that what you're trying to use to clear him is something that can easily be faked as scum.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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Yes, because there's absolutely no reason scum would lie.In post 174, emogirl123 wrote:I don't see him admitting that he wasn't aware there were no PRs at the time of my initial post if he was scum.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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In post 176, emogirl123 wrote:After his 124, I was ready to attack the first person that dropped an actual case for Garmr.In post 176, emogirl123 wrote:an actual case for Garmr.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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No, I didn't say anything of the kind. What you just said was that you were ready to attackIn post 181, emogirl123 wrote:So you suggest that every scum push must have no case?anybodywho madean actual caseon Garmr. Not just a case, but anactualcase. Do you know what the connotation of that is? That means that you prepared yourself to vote for anybody who had agenuinereason to find Garmr to be scum and lynch him. A genuine reason. That means that you were preparing yourself to vote town with a case against Garmr, meaning that youknewGarmr's alignment. You say that you're not defending him? I call bull crap, because you admitted yourself that you prepared yourself to vote the first town with an actual case. This wasn't a spur of the moment decision. It was a premeditated action to keep a wagon from forming on Garmr.
That's funny. You seem to be implying it.In post 181, emogirl123 wrote: I didn't say scum wouldn't lie.
In post 181, emogirl123 wrote: I don't see scum lying about knowing there aren't PRs in the game, only to retract later and admit he didn't know.
Words. Learn to use them.In post 185, emogirl123 wrote:
I agree that it is a null tell on you for being this.In post 184, Aegor wrote:I absolutely do not find it a null tell. It is incredibly scummy.
Unvote
Vote Emogirl123
We can argue about Garmr later, but we have guaranteed scum right here.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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Why would you being town make Emo town?In post 188, Garmr wrote:
I can sort out this right here I'm town so no need for latter.In post 186, Bulbazak wrote:We can argue about Garmr later, but we have guaranteed scum right here.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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What does it being mountainous have to do with anything?In post 194, Aegor wrote:If this were not mountainous, I would try everything I could to have both you and Emo annihilated utterly.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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It's a very odd and unnatural way to phrase things. I could understand if she said she saw a bad case on a townread, or if she said she was watching the development of the Garmr wagon looking for opportunistic scum, but no, she said she wasIn post 208, Tebow wrote:Bulbazak's harping on the use of the phrase 'actual case' to derive the idea that emogirl has admitted she wants to vote town is just craplogic in extremis.preparing, meaning premeditation, to vote whoever provided anactual, i.e. genuine (something that scum can't do), case on Garmr. Say it's crap logic all you want to, but that one sentence provided a valuable insight into her thought process and showed scum motivation in her intent.
Something felt off about the interaction, and it made me wonder if we were looking at scum theatre. And as far as scum theatre goes, pregame is the safest place to pull it off.In post 208, Tebow wrote: Maybe he's just bad enough to think that two players derping around in pre-game is an actual indication of a scum link, but the alternative hypothesis, which is more charitable about his ability and less about his motives, seems totally plausible.
I saw possible scum theatre in pregame. I started getting a slight scumread on Garmr once the game began, but I wanted to figure out Emerald first. Emo starts hard defending Garmr left and right, finally attacking his attacker after Garmr called a 1v1. Everything snapped into place for me, and I pursued my read.In post 219, Maestro wrote: also just saw this - the progression from "lol is this scumtheatre?" THEN to "dual scumreads after a possible chainsaw" doesn't really make sense to me, but I might not be understanding correctly
Hey! I've found scum. What are you doing?In post 226, Maestro wrote:he's being pretty annoyingly unusefulBulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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I felt more confident in my Emo read. I still think they're both scum, but after going back and forth with Emo, my scumread on her is a bit stronger.In post 238, Maestro wrote: I'm voting the same person you are 2 spots ahead of you but remaining confused about what looks like your general lack of commitment to this supposedly-strong Scumteam-read of yours.
"Susptected Scum theatre" + "was correct???" = *votehope between them* doesn't look like a logical trajectory.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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What part didn't I acknowledge? I thought I touched on everything.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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What don't you like about it?In post 247, emeraldemon wrote:#170 - this is actually the only post from emogirl I don't like. The rest of it is null.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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Acting in good faith?In post 254, Tebow wrote:'Actual case' and 'Genuine town motivation' are not two things that a reasonable person acting in good faith would think are the same.
And how does that change the interpretation? That just means she was ready to attack any case, or were you thinking she was planning on attacking a different type of case, and how would that not contrast with "fake case"?In post 254, Tebow wrote: Clearly, 'actual case' is to be contrasted with 'pressure vote' or 'random vote,' not 'fake case.'
No, that phrasing did not feel natural to me, which was why I noticed it. And even if we were to ignore her particular word choice, the way she has gone about with her attack and her explanations since then point to the mindset that I have outlined. This is not some bit of semantic trickery. The intent behind that sentence was the same regardless of whether you buy the definition of "actual" or not. She meant to attack those that presented a case on Garmr. It was not spur of the moment. She admits to wanting to shut down discussion on him. She says it's to protect her townread, but when pressed, she couldn't give an adequate answer why this should be the case, since she admitted to ignoring most of Garmr's posts. Then when she was called out on defending Garmr, she backtracks and said that she was defending herself by defending Garmr, which is BS. So go ahead and criticize my interpretation of that one sentence. It still doesn't change her actions, which happen to back up that interpretation.In post 254, Tebow wrote: Your mindset reads like "Can I find a definition of 'actual case' that would make her sound scummy, then imply that's what she meant even though it clearly wasn't?"
Want town says that?In post 254, Tebow wrote: Because, seriously, what scum would actually say 'I want to attack town players?'
I've probably seen it, but none readily spring to mind. It's an association thing, and a lot of times it's more subtle than what was done here.In post 254, Tebow wrote: Can you give me any examples of 'scum theater' you've seen in the past?
Not having any risk is why pregame is the safest place to pull off scum theatre. People don't refrain from scumhunting in pregame. In fact, it's a good time to start working on early reads so as to end RVS earlier than usual, perhaps even bypassing it. As such, it is still possible to distance without risk, as town still might award towncred based on certain actions. Seriously, why would the first thought of the 3-way between Emo, Garmr, and Kabooom be that there are scum distancing in the argument? And it's for that reason why distancing can work especially well in pregame: a lot of reward for zero risk. I just thought that there were interactions there that seemed fake, which made me think part of it was planned.In post 254, Tebow wrote: 'Pregame is the safest place to pull it off' is just an assertion - seems to me pre-game is the absolute worst time to distance, since it draws attention to/makes people pissed off with both of you, and it doesn't actually work as distancing because you're not really putting your partner at risk.
I'm guessing that you just ignored any information that was in pregame then.In post 254, Tebow wrote: Calling it 'scum theater' just sounds like a cheap excuse to sling some mud to me.
Yes, I can't understand why scum would choose to play like they are town.In post 261, emogirl123 wrote:Just to add to the above, I doubt it is to play her own meta to her advantage. She linked some games where she did something similar calling a player a VI, then proceed to suggesting a policy lynch. It is the similar situation here. I don't see why scum Maenara would attempt to play her town meta as scum in such a way where the targeted player would never get lynched and she would receive scrutiny from anyone that knows that a policy lynch means.
In post 266, emogirl123 wrote:The irony is, Maenara can be our default policy lynch. I don't see the reason for multiple people to point out her posts are bad.
Pray tell what are the criteria for lynching scum?In post 271, Sotty7 wrote:We're not lynching scum based on who is the most annoying.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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You're one of those players who try to see the good in every player, believes innocent until proven guilty, and ends up doing very little as a result, aren't you?In post 279, Tebow wrote: Yup. IE, trying to actually ascertain her alignment, rather than just deciding to try to paint her as scummy. If I can't see a reason areasonableperson acting in good faith (ie, town) would interpret a post in a certain way, that usually leaves three options: you're unreasonable, you're pursuing a personal vendetta, and you're scum. I don't like calling people stupid when there are alternative hypotheses, and I don't have any meta suggesting personal animosity.
Read back over her posts. The intent you outlined doesn't fit in with her actions.In post 279, Tebow wrote: Other players, please note Bulbazak baselessly asserting that his interpretation of her 'intent' is the same thing as her actual intent. Actually, I think they speak far more to the mindset thatI'veoutlined.
Never seen scum flail before?In post 279, Tebow wrote: Never seen town try to lay a 'trap' before?
It's an accurate interpretation. Get out of your fluffy clouds of sunshine and rainbows and join us down here in reality.In post 279, Tebow wrote:
This is a hugely uncharitable interpretation of what she said and did.She admits to wanting to shut down discussion on him. She says it's to protect her townread, but when pressed, she couldn't give an adequate answer why this should be the case, since she admitted to ignoring most of Garmr's posts. Then when she was called out on defending Garmr, she backtracks and said that she was defending herself by defending Garmr, which is BS. So go ahead and criticize my interpretation of that one sentence. It still doesn't change her actions, which happen to back up that interpretation.
She did say that! I can't help it if you want to sit there in your own little world and imagine there aren't people who kick kittens just for fun, but she did freaking say that!In post 279, Tebow wrote: This would be valid, ifher having said thatwas mutually accepted information. Since the argument is precisely aboutwhether that is a reasonable interpretation of what she said, it's just crap. My argument isn't town say that. My argument is that Emogirl didn't say that, and you're deliberately twisting her words.
Sometimes I just like poking things with sticks and seeing what happens.In post 308, Nobody Special wrote:
I see it, but I really can't believe youIn post 275, Bulbazak wrote:
Pray tell what are the criteria for lynching scum?In post 271, Sotty7 wrote:We're not lynching scum based on who is the most annoying.actually askedthis.
Where did the Sotty scumread come from?In post 310, emogirl123 wrote:
my prediction was that Sotty and Bulbazak are scumpals. More reasons to lynch him.In post 308, Nobody Special wrote:Prediction: Sotty and emogirl are scumpals.
Why hasn't MS created a *twitch* emoticon yet?In post 312, emogirl123 wrote:I agree that I have been town telling awfully hard and in turn this makes me suspicious.
See Nine Plus Plus - VarsoonIn post 324, emogirl123 wrote:I also find it unlikely that emogirl is scum, becasue I have never seen a mafia post over 25% of the threads total posts. So either emogirl is an incompetent scum who is completely unable to blend, or her wagon is being driven by scum. I think the latter is more likely
I realize the post count argument is subjective and based entirely on my experience, but i have never seen that many posts from scum this early in dp1.
Fire Emblem: Awakening - SakiBulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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I know where your scumread comes from. I was asking Emo.In post 345, Nobody Special wrote: I feel that Sotty is scum coaching emogirl.
I saw his points and disagreed with them. I feel I have sufficiently gotten my point across, but that it would be a waste of time arguing over something so pointless as to what the correct way to scum hunt is.In post 354, emogirl123 wrote:Bulbazak's latest post is so bad he completely ignored all of Tebow's points. If he has any hint of being a decent player, it earns him a lynch.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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You mean that he thinks you're town? I've addressed it. I think he's wrong. Anything further than that and we're getting into playstyle issues.In post 358, emogirl123 wrote:You actually didn't address any of the issues Tebow presented.
No. You do not get to hold the game hostage to ward off your lynch.In post 359, emogirl123 wrote:I refuse to talk about my association read of Sotty and Bulbazak until I am no longer in danger of being hammered. I don't need Sotty hammering me on the basis that my reads are toxic for the town.
I've explained my position, and Tebow has disagreed with me. I disagree with his view on playing, but that is not alignment indicative, so I'd rather not bog the thread down with a useless debate.In post 360, emogirl123 wrote:
You don't even justify your viewpoint. You just assert them as fact.In post 358, emogirl123 wrote:You actually didn't address any of the issues Tebow presented.
Just to clarify: Do you have a scumread on Emo or a townread?In post 381, Maestro wrote: That's called confirmation bias, dearie, and you not voting me isSTILLinconsistent what that. If you wanna, go ahead. I won't mind.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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I have scumreads of various strengths on Aegor and Sotty (although I'm starting to become more unsure of my Sotty read). I have townreads on Goodfather, Maenara, Maestro, Tebow, Slandaar, Emeraldemon, and Nobody Special. Everybody else I'm still trying to sort.In post 399, OhGodMyLife wrote:Bulba can you give me your read of all players not named emo or garmr?
P-edit: @NS: Shun the non-believer!Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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You were attacking me hard? I'm sorry, I wasn't paying much attention to you.In post 423, Tebow wrote: Since I'm attacking you, HARD, that seems like an odd thing to say.
Excuse me, I've been going toe to toe with Emo for the majority of the game, meaning I was around when those posts were made. My views concerning all of this are well documented. Therefore, I can make as many bare assertions about her play as I want.In post 423, Tebow wrote: Also, people who are not bulbazak should note that this is another bare assertion on his part.
Town do it just as much. It's a null argument in determining the attacker's alignment.In post 423, Tebow wrote: Never seen accusations of being 'flailing scum' made toward town before? It's an incredibly common scumtactic to accuse people of 'flailing.'
Or scum so full of herself that she thinks she can get away with it.In post 423, Tebow wrote: It's a BULLSHIT interpretation. For it to be true, she'd have to be the stupidest scum who ever lived.
In post 423, Tebow wrote: LIAR! SHE DID NOT SAY THAT! YOU MISREPRESENTED HER AS SAYING THAT!
Looks like it to me, especially in conjunction with everything else she's said.In post 176, emogirl123 wrote:After his 124, I was ready to attack the first person that dropped an actual case for Garmr.
No, you don't give scum an excuse by letting them say "That's how we play it over there...".In post 424, Tebow wrote: BTW... I suggest people familiarise themselves with the mafia-playing norms of 2p2.net. From what I remember, the average player there posts far more frequently than here, and has a much spammier kind of playstyle. The sort of annoying, pretending to do antitown things kind of way emogirl started this game is, from what I remember, the standard way games get started over there.
Now who's misrepping?In post 432, Tebow wrote:
Amirite?In post 428, Chevre wrote: Yet I did not unvote until I had a defensible excuse
Are you even reading the same game I am?In post 450, Tebow wrote:I'm utterly perplexed that Chevre isn't even really pretending to scumhunt with his life on the line.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
- Survivor
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I assumed they did due to the word "mountainous". It seemed that way in the other mountainous game I played, but maybe I was under the wrong impression.In post 473, Brian Skies wrote:
Oh, is it common for mountainous games to have more townies than usual?[/spoiler]In post 171, Bulbazak wrote:I, for example, thought mountainous games were games where town outnumbered scum by a larger amount than the typical 1:3 ratio.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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This is not a good reason to put someone at L-1. In your own words, how are Chevre's posts scummy?In post 482, Albert B. Rampage wrote:I haven't really followed the last 2 pages and am feeling distant from this game, I don't know why I can't get invested. Chevre's posts are scummy and I'm fine with his lynch. Hopefully we strike gold here and I'll get more motivated.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
- Survivor
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ABR has been a nonentity for most of the game. He is putting the Chevre wagon at L-1 with absolutely zero reasoning, other than "let's just lynch somebody", and it just feels like he is willing to sheep whoever as long as he doesn't have to add his own thought process or scumhunt whatsoever. It's an easy, lazy vote. If he really thinks Chevre is scummy, which he has given no indication, than I want to know why, especially if he is putting her this close to death.In post 498, OhGodMyLife wrote:What exactly constitutes a "good" reason to put someone at L-1 then? And with so little content from Chevre in the first place I wouldn't be surprised if anyone found it difficult to come up with something novel and new about him. That ground has already been covered. Asking for how he's scummy "in your own words" is a trap. Basically there is no good answer to Bulba's query, it seems plain to me that he'll now have a scumread on ABR based on whatever answer he could come up, or his lack of an answer.
Yes, but why is she scummy?In post 504, Albert B. Rampage wrote:Chevre is a good day 1 lynch. You can't just run up everybody to L-3 and then freak out when someone places that player in danger of a lynch, then choose to disintegrate that wagon and bandwagon the new player. This is mountainous, we're not going to get a game-changing claim. Instead of getting caught in a circular suspicion loop, I say we lynch Chevre.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
- Survivor
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You're going to have to explain this one, because me being full of crap after having been proved right doesn't make sense to me.In post 531, yessiree wrote:If emogirl flips scum, we will know bulbazak is full of shit.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
- Survivor
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A little bit. You always tend to read me as scum.In post 549, Zdenek wrote:Bulbazak, doesn't it surprise you that I'm town reading you?Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
- Survivor
- Survivor
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Emerald's intro of "Oh hey, I'm new!" could have been said during pregame. It's not like we had limited time during that phase of the game. Instead, he avoided the pregame and prefaced his first actual post with that, which I felt was to set a standard by which we would lower our guard in regards to him. However, I later got a townread from him, so I no longer feel this is a valid point.In post 587, Chevre wrote:Bulbazak's opening vote on emeraldemon is very fishy given how emeraldemon had just claimed he was new and I don't completely understand what he said that could've been said in confirmation.
Because I realized it was simply a difference in play style, and since I believe that Fonz is town, although terribly wrong and misguided, I didn't see the point in dragging out an argument that would come to nothing and distract from scumhunting.In post 588, Chevre wrote:Bulbazak seems to disregard his altercation with Tebow as an attack when really they were back-and-forthing for pages?Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
- Survivor
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- Posts: 10712
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- Location: Thataway, Thataway, Betwixt the Presidents
His later posts had the appearance of newbie town, rather than scum. He was eager and actually doing his best to scumhunt. I didn't think he'd be able to fake that as scum with his level of experience.In post 611, Zdenek wrote:
From what?In post 602, Bulbazak wrote:I later got a townread from him, so I no longer feel this is a valid point.
You don't think ABR's vote on Chevre was strange, especially when he avoided giving any reason for why Chevre was scum when asked? I'm not blaming him for the whole wagon, I think that's a misrepresentation of my stance on him, but I do find his vote to be scummy.In post 611, Zdenek wrote:
Bulbazak and Yessiree? Any others?In post 604, OhGodMyLife wrote:the swarm of people already trying to lay blame for a chevre mislynch at the feet of ABR et. al. Somebody who *knows* he's town is feeding that fire.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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No, I don't have the time to read games outside the ones I'm playing in.In post 617, Zdenek wrote: Did you look at his completed game?Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
- Survivor
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It's good enough for now.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
- Survivor
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Either Garmr or ABR.In post 622, Zdenek wrote:If you weren't voting emogirl, who would you be voting?Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
- Survivor
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Yes, I think it means to rethink your list.In post 630, Slandaar wrote:People who need to post:
Brian
Kabsy
Maestro
ABR
People who are scum:
Brian
Kabsy
Maestro
ABR
I see a correlation here.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
- Survivor
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I'm leaning town on him. I'm not a big fan of the wagon, especially as of late.
Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
- Survivor
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If that's the case, why aren't you voting Emo?In post 647, Albert B. Rampage wrote: emo's wagon shouldn't be so difficult given how her posts are desperate and grasping, there's definitely some buddies pulling the strings here.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
- Survivor
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Why?
Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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I like the feel of a lot of his posts. It reminds me of Maniacal. It's really not thought out beyond that.In post 716, Brian Skies wrote: I just felt like you would have commented on something, but you never did. And now he's just sitting in your town pile.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
- Survivor
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Unvote
Vote Slandaar
Compromation lynch go!Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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Explain.In post 865, OhGodMyLife wrote:I'm some pages behind being fully read up but just skimming is enough to see that Yessiree dies tomorrow if Slandaar flips scum, and Slandaar is going to flip scum.
Definitions tend to be separate from actual reads. Sometimes it seems hypocritical, but it's not scummy. Is that all you've got, or do you have some more misreps to spout?In post 881, Slandaar wrote:
This is Brians definition.In post 776, Brian Skies wrote:Lurkers and newer players are low hanging fruit
Therefore his ONLY scumread from his POV;
#1 is low hanging fruit
#2 he holds a grudge against
Obviously he is scum. You can't make the argument he did with his reads.
I like Aegor's #887.
Actually, given the way the votes piled on him, I'd say he's the easier lynch. Besides, the kind of conclusion you're trying to lead the town to is generally false. How quickly, or how easy, it is to build a wagon has nothing to do with the wagoned player's alignment.In post 899, Albert B. Rampage wrote:Emerald is a harder lynch.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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I even said in that quote that you clipped out that personal understanding of definitions and personal game theory does not always equate with personal play. Brian explained his definition, but it was obvious from his posts that he didn't put that level of thought into his vote for you. He wasn't thinking "I'm voting Slandaar for lurking, ergo I'm going after low-hanging fruit.". He was thinking "Slandaar is doing something I find scummy for whatever reason, so I'm going to vote him.". The definition he gave from a theory perspective and his actual gameplay, which may not be as logically thought out, are two very different things, which you sought to unreasonably consolidate in order to push his lynch. They were never meant to coexist at the level you are presenting them.In post 914, Slandaar wrote:
Yes actually check a few pages ago.In post 913, Bulbazak wrote:Is that all you've got, or do you have some more misreps to spout?
I didn't misrep him he said low hanging fruit are lurkers; I was lurking ergo I am low hanging fruit and he is being mosntrously hypocritical.
Perhaps you can point the misrep out?Thatis the misrep.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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He thinks X is done in theory. He doesn't realize he's doing X.
Conclusion: Town.
Player takes advantage of attacker doing X. Player misreps attacker at every turn during their back and forth. Player keeps on getting bested in arguments, so he cuts it off as an attempt to appear town.
Conclusion: Scum.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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First, NKs are a big mess of WIFOM, so I'm not going to use 1 kill to justify lynching anyone. Second, Slandaar self-hammered. Any credibility he might have had is gone after that (and I didn't feel he had much in the first place), since he essentially played against his own wincon.In post 965, Zdenek wrote:Read the deadmen's ISOs.
The crap? What kind of reasoning is this?
Vote Emogirl123
This is still scum. I'll examine the rest of the ABR wagon later.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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You're not making any sense.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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I know what FoS is. I just don't know what this:
has to do with anything.In post 995, Zekrom25 wrote:good plan has to be townBulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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Why?In post 1005, Thor665 wrote: Was he on the Emo wagon? I'd kind of like to vote someone who was on the Emo wagon.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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I think Emo is scum. The wagon dissipated very quickly once an alternate target was found, that being the Chevre wagon.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10712
- Joined: November 18, 2012
- Location: Thataway, Thataway, Betwixt the Presidents
I thought I saw evidence of an associative tell between her and Garmr in pregame. I pushed Garmr on this, and Emo essentially freaks out and votes me. Later she said that she was trying to understand my reasoning, but there was no hint of that whatsoever in her first mention of me, where she happened to vote me for voting Garmr. She then said that she was defending herself, but at no point did she ever argue in defense of herself, only Garmr. She then later said that she had been waiting to vote any reasonable case on Garmr, which again pointed to the fact that she was preparing to either chainsaw defend Garmr or WK him. She also contradicted herself several times, and was overly concerned about how she looked, or how she "towntold". After the wagon on her dissipated, she stopped posting as often, and she failed to deliver cases she promised, since no one was pushing her.In post 1011, Thor665 wrote:
What's the scum case on her besides wagon dissipation? Or is that the case?In post 1008, Bulbazak wrote:I think Emo is scum. The wagon dissipated very quickly once an alternate target was found, that being the Chevre wagon.
In post 1014, Zekrom25 wrote:
that is one reason however i need more information to confirm my suspicionsIn post 1010, Zdenek wrote:You think he's scum because he voted for town?
I actually thought it was a good post. You seem to have purposely overlooked all of the analysis that Chevre did. What specifically about her reasoning did you not like?In post 1027, Garmr wrote:
Wow that was a horrible,horrible, horrible post. So your scum reads list is who ever wasn't voting sland except ABR who is the flavor of the day. Are you just being lazy or even trying at all. Also you seem to be scum reading the brian skies wagon when he had done nothing nothing deserving of a town read.In post 1023, Chevre wrote:A post on the end-of-day votecount:
For reference, here it is:
Let's go over the votes on Slandaar's lynch first. Obviously mine is the first vote; I think at the time of casting it was a weak vote based primarily on a sort of active lurking but Slandaar's poor reactions to the vote strengthened my opinions on it. I'm going to affirm here that I don't think the Slandaar lynch was poorly conceptualized, but in this review I do want to look at those whose votes seem opportune or of little reason. OGML's vote is second and I think it's actually a little bit prophetic with the line "In conclusion, let's try to disingenuously dismiss all criticism out of hand", so I don't take issue with this vote either. ABR's first vote on Slandaar (he unvotes later and then revotes) is just because he is "scummy" without explanation but that's to be expected of ABR at this point isn't it? He does switch to emeraldemon quite quickly afterward but that wagon hasn't really taken off yet so I don't think it's a scummy hop. I'm not sure of Sotty's reasoning for his vote on Slandaar, but it is not permanent I see. It does agree with OGML again which is so very strange and I think Zdenek is right to question it. Aegor, though initially I thought it scummy since he considers lynching Slandaar earlier in 607, actually has decent reasons in this post and 668, especially determining why Slandaar is the best choice out of the suspects. Despite walls on the same page, Brian Skies' vote is pretty reasonless; he notes how Slandaar is "pure evil" but I don't know if that necessarily indicates scum? The Bulbazak vote is reasonless within the post but in 634 he notes Slandaar's poor list construction (the one where he lists people he believes need to post and declares them as scum). I think Brian Skies' reasonless vote is at least in part remedied by transactions between the two on pages 31 and 32. ABR switches back for a second time to Slandaar and this is still not the last; what's even more disconcerting is that he says in this post that his reads are "usually right on the money" but his earlier switch from Slandaar to emeraldemon seemed quite fickle. Zdenek's vote feels right, especially since now Slandaar is all over the place and peaked with that vote switch to emeraldemon; Matias pretty much echoes these sentiments. Zekrom places a vote which I guess changes later, and it's literally reasoned by everyone else's reasons, but given what I've seen on Day 2 I'm not expecting much more. yessiree's vote is kind of pointless to include in this analysis, but for completion's sake, it actually doesn't do much in the way of reasoning, though at this point it is nearing deadline and much of the reasons have been stated and re-stated. I feel this differs from Zekrom's vote because yessiree's feels legitimate whereas Zekrom's feels like he's latching on, though these ideas are admittedly gut feels since there is so little wordage in the vote posts. I don't feel it's worth linking, but ABR switches back to make it L-1 in 929 and then Slandaar self hammers.In post 952, Huntress wrote:
Vote Count 1.19
Slandaar (10) - Chevre, OhGodMyLife, Aegor, Brian Skies, Bulbazak, Zdenek, Matias, yessiree, Albert B. Rampage, Slandaar
Brian Skies (4) - Garmr, Sotty7, emeraldemon, emogirl123
Chevre (2) - Zekrom25, The Fonz
emeraldemon (1) - inHimshallibe
emogirl123 (1) - kabooooom
Not voting (1) - Nobody Special
With nineteen players alive, it takes ten votes to lynch.
Deadline for Day One has been extended due to the replacements and is now Wednesday, 5th February 20.00 GMT, (in (expired on 2014-02-05 20:00:00)).
From the votes that were left at lynch, I think ABR's wishy-washy voting is the scummiest, but I do think most of the votes off the wagon are more fishy. I never really found Sotty7's vote reasoning for Slandaar very in-depth, and then he switches off the wagon. Zekrom's vote and switch to me before the lynch is also very scummy. emogirl also putting her vote on Brian feels scummy as well. Also Garmr barely touches the Slandaar wagon at all. As for the others, emeraldemon truly does reek of newness, and I am of mixed opinion on his vote on Brian Skies. I could totally see it as scum knowing Slandaar is not scum and thus trying to avoid flak on Day 2 but it really sort of matches emeraldemon's tone from the rest of the day. Despite it being on me, Fonz's vote wasn't really out-of-place and he declared intent to hammer. inHim, kabooooom, and Nobody Special's votes don't really bother me because they were either reading up / away, which could be scum excuses but I doubt it.
So for a concise list ( ) The end-of-day vote count makes me think Sotty7, ABR, emogirl123, Zekrom25, and Garmr are suspicious, in that order.I will note your passive defense of brian skies with your silent chainsawing
I was never aware I had gained a town read from you.In post 1027, Garmr wrote: Also Side note Bulba has lost his town read
No, people ran when the slightest appearance of something scummy contradictory to the Emo wagon appeared, i.e. Chevre starting to question his read. Nobody ever recanted the reasons for being on the Emo wagon. Chevre was essentially everything anti-Emo, the perfect counter-wagon.In post 1053, The Fonz wrote: Bulbazak tends to read Emo's wagon falling apart as indicating scum on her part. I read it the other way: it fell apart because it was scummy and indefensible, so people ran from it as soon as it was attacked.
What gave you that gut read?In post 1061, inHimshallibe wrote:Bulbazak and Zekrom currently gut level scums.
Um...what? "I didn't like Aegor's Zekrom vote, so I'm voting Bulba in case Aegor is scum."? What kind of crap reasoning is this?In post 1066, inHimshallibe wrote:I didn't like his Zekrom vote too much, so that is why I picked Bulba first, in case it turns out Aegor is indeed scum.
In post 1083, Garmr wrote:
Zdenek goesIn post 1080, Albert B. Rampage wrote:What's the difference between Zdenek and Zekrom25?
Wa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pow!
Wa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pow!
Wa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pow!
and the other fits in a pokeball
P-edit: Playing over your skill level? The crap?Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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Explain it to me.In post 1089, Garmr wrote:It's a legit tell that I want this site getting into there system me and mollie are going to try and get it running. So think of it as advertising .Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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I don't see how that would be the case, because that would be assuming that scum are doing a lot of bussing. Chances are, their pushes are going to be as incorrect as town's. I can see where you're coming from in huge leap in skill level, but I still can't see that being the case. Newer players like Zekrom end up looking similar as scum, and maybe even more obvious. There are rarely any great leaps in skill level, and even if there was, it would be noticeable. This theory seems primed to take out evolving players, i.e. players that are developing their game in a way to be effective. It seems primed more to discourage improvement, rather than find scum.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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In post 1088, Bulbazak wrote: What gave you that gut read?Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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So you agree with the assertion that the NK points to ABR being scum? Or that it points definitively to anyone being scum at this point?Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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I don't put as much faith in NKA as others do. I especially don't think it's possible to do NKA based off of only 1 kill. You need multiple kills in order to establish a pattern. So yeah, I think the NK point against ABR was crappy.In post 1103, inHimshallibe wrote:
I never said anything about the nightkills. I just know scum have agenda when they engage in discourse, and it pinged me that you did not want NK analysis done (on a suggestive level), thus scum.Bulbazak wrote:So you agree with the assertion that the NK points to ABR being scum? Or that it points definitively to anyone being scum at this point?Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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- Location: Thataway, Thataway, Betwixt the Presidents
No clue.In post 1114, Albert B. Rampage wrote:Bulbazak what do you my alignment is?
I think it's incredibly lazy play to base an entire read off of a dead man's read list, especially when that player went against his win condition in the manner that he did, and especially since he was the one stretching to make his points for most of his arguments, which was what got him lynched in the first place.In post 1114, Albert B. Rampage wrote: What do you think of Zdenek's assertions?
I had an early Sotty gut scumread. I started to doubt that read given his reactions during my back and forth with Emo and Garmr. I'm not sure what to make of him now, as the current game state feels a lot more muddled than yesterday.In post 1116, Zdenek wrote:
Could you explain this please?In post 408, Bulbazak wrote:although I'm starting to become more unsure of my Sotty read
Was there a reason you expected me to comment on it?In post 1119, Zdenek wrote:Bulbazak, why did you ignore this?In post 985, The Fonz wrote:Chevre becomes moderately more town simply because I'm still alive.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10712
- Joined: November 18, 2012
- Location: Thataway, Thataway, Betwixt the Presidents
Garmr, are you voting me because Emo is leaving?
I'm assuming it has to do with his comment on Chevre being town, because he wasn't NK'd. I don't think I paid it much attention, because Fonz has shown a propensity for bad theory in regards to this game. I wouldn't expect much more from the guy who tried to make a scum case out of me not being generous in understanding (all rainbows and unicorns) when reading a game.In post 1141, Zdenek wrote:
Yes, and it should only take you a moment to figure it out.In post 1123, Bulbazak wrote:Was there a reason you expected me to comment on it?Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10712
- Joined: November 18, 2012
- Location: Thataway, Thataway, Betwixt the Presidents
I don't think he's either, but I do think he's relying on a bad argument.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10712
- Joined: November 18, 2012
- Location: Thataway, Thataway, Betwixt the Presidents
They've been pretty weak, but I'm also reading him as a player who is just recently getting into this game. His case on you is essentially a knee jerk reaction to you voting him for bad reasoning. I still think he came out stronger in his back and forth with Slandaar.In post 1147, Zdenek wrote: What do you think of ABR's cases?Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10712
- Joined: November 18, 2012
- Location: Thataway, Thataway, Betwixt the Presidents
Where do you go from "ABR is overconfident and committing a logical fallacy (7for7 tends to be town)" to "ABR is scum"?In post 1162, Tony PF wrote: I'm liking Chevre's analysis here. ABR is probably scum, to the point where I can:Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10712
- Joined: November 18, 2012
- Location: Thataway, Thataway, Betwixt the Presidents
I've explained why the NK is WIFOM, and you have yet to explain why his particular brand of bad logic is scummy, and Zdenek's is not.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10712
- Joined: November 18, 2012
- Location: Thataway, Thataway, Betwixt the Presidents