Marvel Avengers Alliance - Game over

[BulbaFenix]

Finally

Vote ZZZX

[BulbaFenix]

Finally

Vote ZZZX

-Fenix

(I might forget to do the signature thing a few times cause I'm out of practice with the hydra thing)

[BulbaFenix]

Also..
I think I should vote bulba so he can rage at me, because that's always funny as shit.

VOTE: bulbafenix

I'll be driving the hydra for a bit since Bulba's gonna be gone for about a week. I will send him the warm regards though, Cabd

-Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

So what? Why am I supposed to switch now?

Also, I did not choose Bulbafenix at random.

Well, first you had my interest. Now you have my full attention. Please do tell what made you choose us?

-Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

So what? Why am I supposed to switch now?

Also, I did not choose Bulbafenix at random.

Are you an Arc Angel alt?

Frankly I'm somewhat insulted by this comparison >.>

@Fenix: Why, because I want to get as much reaction/content/stuff out of you as I can before Bulba shows up, of course. I think it will help me get a read on your slot. It's probably not working, but hey, at least I'm pulling us out of RVS.

Ahh. I can dig it. But then again, you gotta remember that Bulba and I are very... Interesting as far as a hydra goes (in our opinions on things). Hence the signature that we carry. So, mind filling me in on your thoughts about the Bulba head of this hydra?

-Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

Unvote

@Kid A

Mind explaining why you've voted the way you have so far?

[BulbaFenix]

2/10 would still lynch

is this regarding me or pidgey?

also do I know you?

You.

I'm going to try to refrain from answering questions like this one when possible.

Why avoid answering questions?

-Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

2/10 would still lynch

is this regarding me or pidgey?

also do I know you?

You.

I'm going to try to refrain from answering questions like this one when possible.

Why avoid answering questions?

-Fenix

Chandra... Mind answering me? I prefer folks not to dodge me...

-Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

2/10 would still lynch

is this regarding me or pidgey?

also do I know you?

You.

I'm going to try to refrain from answering questions like this one when possible.

Why avoid answering questions?

-Fenix

Chandra... Mind answering me? I prefer folks not to dodge me...

-Fenix

It is as our squirrelly friend indicated. Though my motivations are probably different from her own.

That doesn't answer the question, now answer the question...

-Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

Yes, it does. I'm avoiding questions that have anything to do with my main account, because I wish not to be associated with it at present.

Oh for fuck's sake, fenix. Respect their right to be an alt. Do you think their answer to knowing you or not will actyually advance the game state in any way, or give you insight onto their alignment?

I give zero fucks (count it, 0) to this being an alt or if I know them or not, that's not the issue. I asked 1 simple question, 'tell me your thoughts on the Bulba head of the hydra.' That, respectfully, gives nothing away in my opinion. It's just thoughts, because I am simply curious, since I know Bulba has more time to dedicate to playing this game than I, what they THINK of that head. (thoughts on his play style, posting style of walls, etc)

The fact that they are using the 'i'm going to avoid these sorts of questions to avoid conflicting with my main,' makes me uneasy as hell, because it's an excuse that can be used as a crutch later on down the line imo. And avoiding me, only makes me more headstrong to keep picking till I get an answer.

tl;dr, I'm fucking paranoid.

~Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

One thing's for sure, what you're doing is anti-town, and it seems delibrate. Explain yourself please.

Squirrel vs Yates looks town on town to me.

I'm gonna agree with Dr. Evil avatar guy here... The back and forth walls between the 2 of them is quite the read. I (personally as Fenix head) like Nero Cain as town as well.
Also, thank you Chandra.
Where the balls did KidA run off to?

-Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

Pid, what do you think of Yates accusing you of fake scumhunting?

Also, I never made this claim. I simply stated that he did not appear to have begun scum hunting yet within his first 8 posts. Two very different things. It is important to note the distinction given SG's claimed reasons for her reads. That's it.

You keep clutching onto that first 8 post bit for sake of your argument and saving your ass imo... But you've also, without DIRECTLY saying the words, have basically said Pid isn't scum hunting... And to say that you were scum hunting 'right out of the gate'... I'd consider that a lie... More reactionary posting than anything...

[BulbaFenix]

omgus isnt a scumtell though

Occasionally, it IS though. Not saying it confirms a damn thing, I'm just saying.

-Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: pisgey

I like rufflig's case on pidgey plus pidgeys reaction lately makes pidgey look scummy to me.

This looks opportunistic as fuck to me.

-Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: pisgey

I like rufflig's case on pidgey plus pidgeys reaction lately makes pidgey look scummy to me.

This looks opportunistic as fuck to me.

-Fenix

In a big game like this you have to build wagons on people. So when you have to get 13 people voting one person votes on that wagon are going to look opportunistic.

I know how this sort of thing works. Doesn't mean I don't see it as opportunistic and am leery of it.

im sheeping this wagon because it is better than anything i have come up with

VOTE: pidgey

You've not done a damn thing except come in and random post votes, you're hiding in the background imo, you've not answered ANY questions directed at you, AND you're sheeping like crazy. Welcome to

my

personal scum list...

~Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

Chandra didn't ask me for a response to anything in her post and I really don't want to start a wall war. So, I've decided not to rip Chandra's post to shreds by posting a wall (I saved it, though). If there's anything in Chandra's post that anyone wants a response to, let me know.

I'd like to see the whole thing, if ya don't mind.

[BulbaFenix]

Girls, Girls (Yates and SG), you're both beautiful... Now, can we come together and pluck out some scummies? Like KidA?

~Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

It's not an advantage, it's a fighting chance. What if we decided to all claim our rolenames on Day 1, and someone asked scum player X to go first. He has no choice but to pick something out of a hat and potentially dies right then and there for no good reason. It's what's done. The only point of flavor is to be flavor. Any game breakable by mass flavor claim wouldn't pass the review process.

I'm sorry, but no... A mod isn't going to go out of their way to give the mafia a 'fighting chance' by giving them ALL a character role to claim. UNLESS, it is ROLE specific, something in this game like Mystique I could see getting a role that calls for that. Other than that, no. If EVERYONE mass claimed day one, it then comes down to, 'ok, who's claim is believe-able'? After that, you give the MAFIA the advantage by leaping up and going, 'I got *insert character here*. 'But, that's my character! (another poster)' and it then becomes a truth/chaotic war where the town can devour itself while the mafia drink in the chaos.

~Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

It's not an advantage, it's a fighting chance. What if we decided to all claim our rolenames on Day 1, and someone asked scum player X to go first. He has no choice but to pick something out of a hat and potentially dies right then and there for no good reason. It's what's done. The only point of flavor is to be flavor. Any game breakable by mass flavor claim wouldn't pass the review process.

I'm sorry, but no... A mod isn't going to go out of their way to give the mafia a 'fighting chance' by giving them ALL a character role to claim. UNLESS, it is ROLE specific, something in this game like Mystique I could see getting a role that calls for that. Other than that, no. If EVERYONE mass claimed day one, it then comes down to, 'ok, who's claim is believe-able'? After that, you give the MAFIA the advantage by leaping up and going, 'I got *insert character here*. 'But, that's my character! (another poster)' and it then becomes a truth/chaotic war where the town can devour itself while the mafia drink in the chaos.

~Fenix

To the first part of this post, mods absolutely do that and I can pull up plenty of examples of this.

The second part of this post I don't even understand.

That's why I said in the first part, IF IT WAS ROLE SPECIFIC (like, Godfather, Miller, Neighborizor-Town/Mafia Pairing, etc.), I know it happens.

@ Pidgy, Fenix, and Chandra

OK. Even with the possibility of Fake Claims.
Is there any reason to believe that KidA's Wolverine claim isn't true, or that he is scum?
Because so far, all I see from his play is weak wagon hopping from an inexperienced player who has self admitted that he isn't yet able to come to his own conclusions, but has proven that he is willing to jump on whatever seems popular at the time.

If I'm the true Wolv, and I've got stupid powers, NOT gonna jump up to counter that and give scum the advantage to find me. For all we know (and there is a possibility of it), Wolverine isn't even a role. Also, THAT last sentence is what has me worried.

P-Edit: Damn posts afterwards!

$Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

BulbaFenix:

Seems to be focusing on setup more than the scum hunting which is a scum tell they say, Well I don't trust what they said (I am looking at you mafia scum wiki!) But he has way too low posts and way lower content for a normal player or a hydra

Leaning Scum?

This is wrong and assuming things. Firstly, I'm not FOCUSING on setup, I'm giving input on theories that always cross my mind when playing mafia. I can admit that my content is low, due to putting my studies FIRST and foremost (I'm a week from finals... Paranoid as balls).

Secondly, anyone that comes up on my radar (Chandra, Kid A when he gets his ass in here, Rufflig's little theory deal), I will ask questions about and to them. It may not be the most conventional way to hunt, but I prefer to have a different method of hunting than most.

~Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

Vote The Rufflig

He attempts to dodge discussion more than he actually tries to engage. He states that he has a case or has stated a case, yet when asked about it, he avoids talking about it. He refuses to back points up. He tries to look like he's being incredibly pro-town, and that he's not going to clog up the thread with arguments or walls, but in reality, he's avoiding talking about his assertions and cases and is trying to put on a show more than actually trying to show why what he's saying is accurate or why Pidgey or Chandra are scum.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Vote The Rufflig

He attempts to dodge discussion more than he actually tries to engage. He states that he has a case or has stated a case, yet when asked about it, he avoids talking about it. He refuses to back points up. He tries to look like he's being incredibly pro-town, and that he's not going to clog up the thread with arguments or walls, but in reality, he's avoiding talking about his assertions and cases and is trying to put on a show more than actually trying to show why what he's saying is accurate or why Pidgey or Chandra are scum.

-Bulba

Either bussing or very tired bulba.

What don't you like?

JoshB and/or PV, you were speculating about Kid A claiming wolverine. With him saying this, would this make him a bad lynch because of the uncertainty of his role or would it make him a good lynch because he claimed as he did?

Thanks

I hope PV responds to this too. probably Chandra{Is it your Birthday?},Fenix, and some of the others that were in on the conversation earlier can talk about this too. My original theory that such an early claim that wasn't counter claimed was a sign of it being town. The extent of counterclaims however indicates that unless his role lines up with his claim, it could be a predetermined fake claim.
My position is that his play style lines up with an inexperienced pioneer(someone that likes to wagon). However, it's not the case that he is inexperienced, so his play style this game has been purposely anti- town trolling. I have a theory about why an semi-experienced player claiming wolverine would do that, but I think it should be proven on a future DP.

I'd say he's scum based on play. His claiming is actually null, although I'm leaning scum on it for other reasons I'd rather not disclose.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Did Ruffling town it up lately or something?

No.

Chandra's posts towards me were deliberately inflammatory.

How is refuting your points and asking you to actually back up your assertions being "deliberately inflammatory"?

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

I'd like to take this moment to note your decision to start out by discrediting me as "not paying attention" and then to do exactly nothing in the rest of the post to demonstrate that I was not paying attention. You're just trying to sound pretty.

If you had been paying attention, I wouldn't have to keep correcting all your errors that you keep posting. As expected, the wall only brought contradictions from you without any arguments or proof.

1)

You did not correct any errors in the post in question.

2)

You probably suspect no one will read closely enough to realize that this point is flagrantly made up.

3)

Contradictions: lol, show me them.

4)

Arguments: I'm pretty sure my post was comprised entirely of arguments.

5)

Proof: Is what scum demand when they are suspected on grounds they don't think are the correct ones, and is not a real thing that exists in mafia outside of power roles.

1) Straight up contradiction.
2) Accusation of making things up.
3) I'd rather not have to quote the whole previous wall.
4) Straight up contradiction.
5) Mud slinging. Proof also consists of quoting posts to prove that you aren't making things up or to prove that someone is making stuff up. Looks like I'm going to have to quote a lot of it of the previous post.

1.) How is it a contradiction?
2.) Okay. And?
3.) That's okay. You didn't show them in the previous wall either.
4.) Again, how?
5.) I wouldn't say it's mudslinging, given that it's a direct response to your post. The Burden of Proof has always rested on you to show that what you're saying is true. That is what Chandra keeps asking, yet you keep refusing to provide evidence to. She's right that you saying that her wall does not provide proof is a scummy action designed to change the focus of attention.

I never stated that I voted for Bulbafenix because his wagon was larger. You're extrapolating from what I did say to something that isn't true.

I asked why she wanted a bulbafenix wagon. Her response was that her wagon was bigger. She is correct in the sense that she didn't use the word 'voting', but this is hair-splitting. The reason someone wants a wagon and the reason they are voting someone are the same. Straight up contradiction and mud slinging (i.e. that I was making stuff up. I did use the word voting when referring to these posts at some point though.

The second half of my post asked if I could interest her in a Aronis wagon then gave a weak reason for an Aronis wagon. I think the context is clear that I was asking Chandra to explain her push behind BulbaFenix.

Except you never quoted the post where she said all this regarding her vote on our wagon. She keeps asking you to back up your statements, which you refuse to do so. Even now you refuse to show actual evidence of her doing what you say she's doing, even though that evidence would be most beneficial to your case right now.

Time to move on to her non-contradiction and "argument" answers

Completely different. I didn't do any misleading.

I don't believe there is anything.

(Hint: It's not solid)

First of all, it's only neutral by your say-so.

Second of all, YOU don't seem to have been paying attention, because we literally just cleared up the confusion about "throwing dirt" last page.

Oh, hey. ^ The second part actually contains an argument.

I don't see the contradictions here.

You assume that the response to your question is "no, you couldn't look me in the eye and state that displaced's post held scummy intent".

You seem awfully sure that displaced has no scummy intent. Is it because you know he's town?

Should I point out that Chandra herself has since stated that she doesn't believe in pidgey's argument, either? This was a point that Chandra actually agrees with. She went out of her way to try and use this against me.

Her belief in pidgey's argument is separate from her questioning of you. She's inquiring into your beliefs surrounding Pidgey's argument. Her beliefs are not on trial.

Go ahead, quote it, and I'll tell you how that's not what I said. I'm waiting.

I think I've covered this sufficiently in this post already. Eh, she could have just responded to the topic instead of just saying "No, it isn't". Next!

Asking you to prove your point by providing evidence of your assertions is not scummy. Btw, you still haven't done this.

No, it was not. You asked me if I was interested in voting Aronis, and I told you the Bulba wagon was larger. I did not tell you that was why I was voting on it.

"No, it isn't". *sigh* My wagon is bigger. This was the reason she gave for wanting the BulbaFenix wagon and/or not wanting the Aronis wagon depending on how you read my initial post. It amounts to the same thing. This is more hair-splitting so she can justify denying everything.

Again, quotes please.

Actually, I have no interest in disproving that statement or of telling you I think that scummy intent exists. What I think about it is entirely irrelevant to the fact that you were putting those words in someone's mouth.

She is claiming my posting style is scummy. To the charge of putting words in someone's mouth I simply state 'rhetorical questions'. These questions formed an argument. Rather than tackle the argument, she tackles me.

I don't see how she's claiming your posting style is scummy. She's very clearly stating you misrepped somebody. Are you trying to say that misrepping people is part of your playstyle?

Why the fuck did someone shoot aronis now.

Is the target as important as the result or what a day death implies? Honestly, the rest of it is wifom. Maybe it was someone who thought he bread crumbed doc. Maybe it was someone trying to make it look like he was killed by someone who thought he bread crumbed doc. Both are equally likely and uninteresting given how little we know.

What makes you think Aronis was shot for breadcrumbing Doc? That's a very specific assertion.

HALF the BWs that are going on right now are shit and are lead by scum

Given that nobody was voting at that point, I doubt it. However, this is a rather strange statement for you to make.

That was almost definitely a town kill. Scum don't shoot lurkers, and no scum would use a daykill on D1.

I actually agree with this.

Can someone summarize the Rufflig case for me?

Style over substance. When he gets called out, especially to provide evidence for his arguments, he'll slink off and makes some excuse like "I'm getting tired of the wall wars." and then act like he's the better man. As you can see in my response, he doesn't actually back up his assertions, instead choosing to discredit and misrep the players he's talking about.

Why vote him over obvscum beastcharizard?

Because Bc's not obv. scum.

Dear Diary, I found another guy who ignored my reply to him and uses same BS argument which has been proven so false. While he is saying I did things I didnt do such as Role Fishing.

Also the dear town has been ignoring my posts with only Yates replying to them. I am actually liking him for that.

Now I got voted for reasons that do not exsist while scum pushes me for fake reasons and noone notices.

This seems like a normal day indeed.

#ZZZX

Dear Diary,

They're on to me. I have to create some sort of counter wagon to get them off my trail. Luckily, one of my strongest attackers is starting to get votes. That seems like a good option. I hope no one realizes I'm scum.

Hugs and kisses,
ZZZX

Vote Rufflig

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

I had posted at least 5 posts that were just ignored ...

Which posts were ignored?

Also at that time there were at least 6 small wagons which were agianst towny players imo

The vote count was reset by the Aronis kill. Nobody was voting at the point you made that post.

Also, if you are responding to something specific, can you only include that part of the post. I don't want to continuously scroll past a whole quoted wall if you're not responding to the entire thing.

Interesting. Well, if you have any more shots for later Days, please hang onto them until we come to a consensus and we can use you as a second lynch. Also, any possibility that he was an SK is pretty much eradicated for me.

Given that he's claimed the shot, he's probably 1-shot.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

If SqG is on

one of the Mafia teams

, do you think the "Pidgey scum hunting right out of the gate" comment was an indicator that Pidgey's displaced vote was spot on.

Quick Quesiton for anyone that cares to answer. Has multiball been confirmed?

Because if not we're powerlynching the fuck out of Josh_B right now.

Dear Cabd-hydra,

I was hoping that you'd be town this game. It saddens me, therefore, to find out that you're scum.

Sincerely,
The Bulba-hydra

[BulbaFenix]

Unfriendly looks townish, even if a little too safe at times, wish he'd gave more stand out points.

That's the problem. I have a hard time believing that Cabd as town would be playing it safe.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Here's my problem with those posts, Rufflig. Your analysis shows that you have a clear understanding that this is a misunderstanding between Chandra and Beast, yet you take a complete 180 at the end and use it to frame an attack on Chandra. Essentially you're WKing Beast so that you can attack one of your most vocal attackers.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

I do not claim to be objective towards Chandra. Given how much Chandra and I have yelled at each other, I do not expect anyone to take me at my word on matters pertaining to her.

I understand, but if you acknowledge that Chandra and Beast are misunderstanding each other, and your continual analysis continues to show that they're misunderstanding each other, I can't see how you then turn around and vote Chandra for a twisting Beast's posts.

Quick question? What did you think of the interaction between Umbrage and Chandra (if anything)?

I haven't seen anything that sticks out to me, and I don't know why you're asking. I don't think Chandra was sheeping Umbrage, if that was what you were getting at.

still haven't seen a lynch candidate that rivals beastcharizard...

The dragon doesn't need to be slain. It's duck season. Help us lynch Rufflig.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

To me, it looked like Chandra was buddying up to Umbrage.

I don't see that.

Top 4 wagons suck.

What's your top pick then?

UnfriendlyNeighbors. A hydra of Mastin/Nero (who have, in games this size put up more posts than some complete Newbie games) with nothing to say is not VT or a town PR. They are scum.

I think you mean Mac/Cabd.

UnfriendlyNeighbors. A hydra of Mastin/Nero (who have, in games this size put up more posts than some complete Newbie games) with nothing to say is not VT or a town PR. They are scum.

This is a good point. Nero was also trying to provoke/continue arguments between myself and Josh AND SG while not so subtly misrepping. I'll buy it.

VOTE: UnfriendlyNeighbors

This is opportunistic.

@ people voting rufflig: no one has given me a clear case on him, and I've asked for this at least a couple of times

Bull crap.

He attempts to dodge discussion more than he actually tries to engage. He states that he has a case or has stated a case, yet when asked about it, he avoids talking about it. He refuses to back points up. He tries to look like he's being incredibly pro-town, and that he's not going to clog up the thread with arguments or walls, but in reality, he's avoiding talking about his assertions and cases and is trying to put on a show more than actually trying to show why what he's saying is accurate or why Pidgey or Chandra are scum.

That was literally in the very post we voted him in.

Unfriendly looks townish, even if a little too safe at times, wish he'd gave more stand out points.

That's the problem. I have a hard time believing that Cabd as town would be playing it safe.

-Bulba

Considering Cabd hasn't made any posts of real substance either, I wouldn't say he's been playing it safe. Most of them have been me.

That's my point. I'd expect this from you, but not from Cabd. I'd expect Cabd-town to be having a bigger influence on the game than he has.

Is there any possiblity, this guy could be scum day vig? Is that allowed in this setup?

It's possible, but killing Aronis would have been a dumb move as scum.

No idea if he is an alt [my hunch is yes].

Why do you think Jklash is an alt?

My primary qualm about UN being scum is "if they were scum, would they really suck this badly?" They're better than this either way, though.

This is about par for the course for Mac. As for Cabd, I've caught him on uncharacteristic play before, and this is uncharacteristic of Cabd.

note to self, keep an eye on ArcAngel

also why is beastcharizard not lynched yet?

AA9 and BC are both town. Now how about you stop focusing on lynch bait and actually help us lynch scum.

479: Makes no sense and contradicts its self, Let me read it again

WOW! ZZZX that is a really unfriendly post that indicates UFN has a power role that somebody doesn't want to lose.

Quick Town! Drop the hammers on Unfriendly Neighbors.

I don't see how ZZZX's post has anything to do with UN.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Assuming you're town, you do know that Mac's attack is bad, right?

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Because if you meant the josh B thing that was me in passing. That's about the only "attack" I've made.

Exactly. It was an easy attack, opportunistic, and selective scumhunting.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

I don't see how ZZZX's post has anything to do with UN.

-Bulba

Let's say you were scum goon, and one of your team mates with a power role was being threatened to be lynched. How would you play it?
ZZZX's post is too erratic to come from a common scum without purpose, and too manipulative and misleading to come from town.
The most recent upturn on a wagon was that of UnFriendlyNieghbors.
Now that we know ZZZX is obvscum. We should evaluate the reasons for such a post-

i.e. Sacrifice for protection

.

This is horrible logic, especially since ZZZX was asked to look at those posts.

I don't see how ZZZX's post has anything to do with UN.

-Bulba

Let's say you were scum goon, and one of your team mates with a power role was being threatened to be lynched. How would you play it?
ZZZX's post is too erratic to come from a common scum without purpose, and too manipulative and misleading to come from town.
The most recent upturn on a wagon was that of UnFriendlyNieghbors.
Now that we know ZZZX is obvscum. We should evaluate the reasons for such a post-

i.e. Sacrifice for protection

.

Josh is right.
Also that doesn't feel like town cabd even though I have limited experience with her.

vote unfriendly neighbours

Just for your info you two seem like a scum team there

since what you said doesnt make sense again

I'm good with a ZZZX lynch.

This is opportunistic.

No. ^^^THIS is opportunistic. Let me show you something... You see this?

That's my point. I'd expect this from you, but not from Cabd. I'd expect Cabd-town to be having a bigger influence on the game than he has.

That's how I'd feel about a Mastin/Nero hydra. Did you happen to notice that like 60 seconds later, after reviewing the hydras in our game, I realized PV mentioned the wrong members of the hydra in question and adjusted with an immediate unvote? Yeah. Sneaky sneaky scum move there... [This is ALSO sarcasm.]

Except there are problems with that. First, you jumped on that vote way too fast, especially since Nero had been solo posting all game, which means he was not in a hydra, not to mention that he already slipped in the Mastin/Nero hydra, The Underachivers, several times during this game, and instantly requoted what he said, as is policy. Even if you had forgot all that (doubtful, as you've been arguing with Nero all game), I can't see you as town quick voting the hydra on PV's sayso and THEN checking. I'd imagine you'd check first. That was you seeing a cheap and easy reason for you to jump on a building wagon and then realizing that, oops, PV's reason was BS and someone might call you out on it. That wasn't you realizing your mistake. It was you backtracking.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

@Bulba I explained what I said 2 lines below it. Why did you ignore that part?

I didn't see an explanation. I only saw a justification.

Illogical = Anti-Town

VOTE: Josh_B

I can't see you as town quick voting the hydra on PV's sayso and THEN checking. I'd imagine you'd check first. That was you seeing a cheap and easy reason for you to jump on a building wagon and then realizing that, oops, PV's reason was BS and someone might call you out on it. That wasn't you realizing your mistake. It was you backtracking.

No, I'd have been quick voting the hydra based on my Nero read - not based on PV's sayso. I'm in more than one game and there are a lot of hydras to keep track of. I simply lost track. It's not anything more nefarious than that. The rest of your statement doesn't even make sense. Regardless of PV's "reason" I was voting for the Nero part of the supposed hydra. And those reasons would have been legit if this was the Nero/Mastin hydra game. BECAUSE I'm in multiple games, I double checked and realized the mistake. That's not a "back track," that's a clerical error. How you can mischaracterize that as a "backtrack" is beyond me.

I love how you single out that one part of my argument and skip over the most incriminating part: Where you had been arguing with Nero all game, and where he had not posted in a hydra once. Suddenly you "forget" that Nero isn't in a hydra this game, just because PV says so? Bull crap!

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Nero Cain, your post 134? The last game w/ SQ was Charmed and she wasn't spammy. Are you thinking of a different game?

you know the part where she kept telling me to post and crap eventhough I was not really around? Its that annoying attempt at being cute I was referring to. I like her a lot now once she pwned Yates but then again winning a logic war with Yates isn't hard to do.

Illogical = Anti-Town

VOTE: Josh_B

lol no

Mala, in your last post you gave a reads list, why was the whole playerbase not on it?

I think this is something that we disagree on; That bad logic obviously = scum. Not my fault you can't understand that :L

Explain to me how bad logic is indicative of scum and not just derp.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

And Illogical = Anti-Town

E.G. Scum or really bad town we don't want alive causing problems anyways.

A solid town block can ignore 1-2 bad apples in the bunch to root out the scum still. And logically, you'll need a better case than that to sway the people.

~Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

Whatever, ZZZX is scum, but why does he make it so obvious.
Let's lynch him and find out logical my theory is.

VOTE: ZZZX

Sorry for the Tiny Text. I didn't do it on purpose. I tried to get that post out 3 different times and I finally just pared it down to the very basic concept.
ZZZX claimed that he hadn't read the posts despite him having commented on the posts when they occurred. Both times when he called me scum, his comments were misrepresenting the facts and forcing scuminess into my posts that wasn't there.

Now. ZZZX is scum and he's made it obvious which is an unnatural scum thing to do. So, I'm trying to consider his motivation for doing it. I think it's because of the recent snowballing on the UFN wagon. There is no way a scum would be so blatent about his misreps unless it was to save a partner with a PR.

I suspect that ZZZX is a Goon and UFN is the PR that he is trying to protect.

P-edit. ZZZX, Not knowing what was said is one thing. Not remembering what you said is an obvious red flag.

So you say UFN is the PR mafia and you... vote me?

How contridacting yourself

Its called wifom Son

No, I got the joke. Made me giggle, but still seemed out of place, even for a joke.

Feel free to meta me to check out my jokes, They are usually more cruel (Check the Mini game I did long ago, its in my wiki I think?)

Mm. Except this account's playstyle is to ignore meta completely, which I will continue to do.

Feel free!

But I ain't changing my playstyle honestly, I have my reasons for it. And it makes mafia fun.

And I shall do the same.

IGMEOU, just letting you know I'll be pushing you for info probably tomorrow or later today.

Yes, because by telling him the pressure is coming, he'll really be caught off guard.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

And why would I want to catch him off guard? I would be pressuring him for info, and if I get something scummy then I push on with a case for lynch. It's not about catching them off guard. Wanting to catch someone off guard is hella scummy.

You just seem to be weakening the strength of any push on ZZZX when you warn him ahead of time by saying "Hey, I'm going to be pushing you tomorrow. Just thought I'd let you know.".

I love how you single out that one part of my argument and skip over the most incriminating part: Where you had been arguing with Nero all game, and where he had not posted in a hydra once. Suddenly you "forget" that Nero isn't in a hydra this game, just because PV says so? Bull crap!

-Bulba

It looked really obvious at the time that he had made a mistake and then quickly rectified it. I'm not sure if you're scum making shit up or just confused town, but the line of inquiry you are pursuing seems pointless.

I don't know about you, but I don't forget about someone I've been arguing with all game. Therefore, Yates's jump on UN for being a Nero hydra, when he knew that wasn't a fact given that he's butted heads with Nero all game, is pretty suspicious, especially when you consider that UN had started to become a popular wagon at about the same time.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Under is 1005 scum.

Nero Cain so sure on this read, he's gone above and beyond 100%, giving it a 1005% rating of scum

~Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

heheh its bulba fenix again

Sup Metal Sonic?

~Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

People keep saying "wehhh, cabd not posting is not to his town meta!!!" but people CONVENIENTLY fail to point out that lurking is not to his scum meta either.

To be fair, we're not saying Cabd is scum for lurking. We're saying Cabd is scum because of his opportunistic push on Josh. I expect better from a man who reads every single game on the site, and who would undoubtly know that Josh was not the first to bring up multiball, and that his thinking had been based on this assumption ever since. Also, I absolutely hate that defense. It seems pretty weak and more akin to being annoyed at being read as scum for the wrong reasons.

I don't care whether the multiball comment has been made beforehand. The wording of Josh's comment was extremely strange given the circumstances, and it doesn't really match the town-thought-process of finding scum, regardless of whether they're on different teams or not

Maybe I just don't understand it.

You better walk me through your reasoning then, and it better be good.

bulba's excitement at thinking he FINALLY got scumcabd reads pretty damn genuine. Shame he's wrong, but you'll manage one day bulba!

I've caught Cabd as scum before. I just didn't have the confidence to push him that game. I'm not making the same mistake here.

Also, from the Marvel Super Heroes role playing game.

Altered Humans (normal people who acquired powers, such as Spider-Man or the Fantastic Four)
High-Tech Wonders (normal people whose powers come from devices, e.g., Iron Man)
Mutants (persons born with superpowers, such as the X-Men)
Robots (created beings such as the Vision and Ultron)
Aliens (a blanket term used to cover non-humans, including extra-dimensional beings such as Thor and Hercules).

i like this post


very informative

How? It says absolutely nothing about this game.

Oh, I forgot to add
-your slot daykilled some random lurker for no apparent reason

im just gonna claim vt now and leave it as that

i think he fake daykilled

Then Aronis must have fake died and fake flipped as well. It's nice to know that he was an imposter thunder god. Maybe he was Loki?

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

The fact is your shouldn't care about what team as town, You should care that he IS scum or not. Talking about a certain scum team so early points out either to a special PR (Think Seer) or a scum who slipped

Thinking about scum teams is fairly common, and Josh merely voiced an opinion based on earlier setup spec. I don't see how that was so unusual. He essentially said that he had scumreads on both SG and Yates, and that he didn't think they were scum together. Based on the earlier multiball spec, it was pretty natural for him to imagine that the fight might be scum/scum, where they were both on separate teams. Heck, I've actually considered that possibility. I don't see how that automatically makes Josh scum.

Also why are we not lynching ms?
His slot claimed a daykill and now he backtracks on it? Is that even a thing?

I... Dont know what to say

I have 2 pages of posts with 0 replies to them, I am being totally ignored

YES! I AM INVISIBLE.

gosh... This game is going to throw me insane one day

this is town as fuck

I don't see how. Josh was clearly tackling 1 post at a time. ZZZX's freak out and push looks more like scum trying to push the advantage by going "Hey! Look! He's not responding to me! He must be scum! Lynch him!". It didn't feel natural at all.

@Mod: Vote Count Please.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

This is your post against me

@ZZZX, and everyone.

hey Squirrel did you draw Squirrel

#thread

-First role fishing

Where did I imply that I was a Doctor?

Are you a pumpkin that shoots lazors out of its ass?

I am pretty sure thats aweasom. Marvel prob bought it

Although, This isn't as direct as Ruflig and SqG, I still deem it role fishing,

i got the worst marvel character does anyone want to trade

I probably won't, but who did you get?

-Here's the "minor role fishing attempt" that Ruflig and displaced referred to.
My read suggests that Yates was purposely mischaracterizing the Aronis role fishing attempt. By calling post 15 the attempt, but then by not adding the continued role fishing that went along with it.

This post is uber bs that contains nothing that actually makes sense

doesn't it?

That's called making bullshit up to make someone look scummy.

@Everyone: Why are you not voting Josh?

Me thinks there are bigger fish to fry today. Josh (imo head part of this hydra at least thinks) isn't big enough for frying.

~Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

@Everyone: Why are you not voting Josh?

Because he's not scum.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Fenix, who do you want to fry (top 3) I might even provide the oil!

Rufflig, Yates, or Viomi have my fryer set to auto boil/fry

~Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

HEY GUYS! I LIED! IM ACTUALLY A 2 SHOT DAYVIG ]]]]]]

DAYVIG JOSH

die, vile scum!!

This better be you trolling, because not only is Josh obv. town, but if your vig is real, you just reset the vote count near deadline. To me, that's extremely anti-town and enough for a policy lynch. I don't care what your claim is. There is no way I want you near endgame.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

No way am I voting for Rufflig or Yates, they're both town. I could MAYBE get behind a UN or Josh lynch, but seriously I dare anyone to read beastcharizard's ISO and say he's town.

I've played a few games with BC. This is his town game.

~Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

Yates was replacing out for personal reasons and that's like sympathetic sounding....

Yates replaced out due to a death in the family. It's posted elsewhere if you go look.

If he still reads this game, my condolences to him and his family.

~Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

Metal's gambit makes me think town. Most (all?) "lolz" gambits I have seen on site have come from town.

Didn't seem like a Lolz gambit. 1184 That's two shots against town from the same slot. We already knew that Jklash dayvig'd once. Whether or not he still has a second shot is debateable. With Jklash, I thought this is just a player that doesn't know how to use it. With a new player in the same slot pulling the same crap. It looks really scummy.

You're not town

How did it make you feel when your dayvig didn't happen? If you fake an ability like that, who in their right mind isn't going to want to lynch you?

People who know he replaced into a dayvig more than likely town spot???????

I have not seen near enough from Yates to deem scum.

I still say Josh_B is hard scum.

Not enough traction for josh lynch. And I used up all my shots. Otherwise I would have cut this scumbutt into pieces

If you're town, you should be helping us lynch this scummy bastard. As in, trying to convince people to get traction.

This just seems like you don't want to get your hands dirty and do the work yourself, that way you can place the blame elsewhere if Josh flips town.

~Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

^^^^
this dies before lylo

Nero, calm down. Differing opinions do not automatically warrant death, no matter how dumb.

oh yay I fucking LOVE meta arguments

especially meta arguments that don't link to past games or specific examples of behaviour

Look at Fire Emblem: Awakening.

Thinking about scum teams is fairly common, and Josh merely voiced an opinion based on earlier setup spec. I don't see how that was so unusual. He essentially said that he had scumreads on both SG and Yates, and that he didn't think they were scum together. Based on the earlier multiball spec, it was pretty natural for him to imagine that the fight might be scum/scum, where they were both on separate teams. Heck, I've actually considered that possibility. I don't see how that automatically makes Josh scum.

Out of curiosity - how did you react to his case (now dropped and ignored like a bad habit as soon as I pointed out how unsupportable and weird it was) wherein he advanced the theory that I had recalled which reads I'd stated in thread or not by mixing them up in a scum Daychat discussing my scumreads with my scumbuddies, wherein we're apparently hunting scum there. Did that seem like a logical advance to you in the same vein, or does that lend support to the idea that he's taking scum theorizing a little too oddly specific and is therefore scum?

Yeah, that was kinda weird. Although, admittedly, I couldn't really follow what he was saying with some of those abbreviations.

Man this back and forth by josh and Zzzx.

Though mostly null, it is not entirely pointless. Zexxy looks slightly more sweet and Joshy slightly more sour as a result of the exchange.

Really? Because I got the opposite.

My games are usually more smooth when I'm scum. Compare something like FE:A to NY165

I'm actually using One and Done as a comparison.

And what do you make of his screaming that I'm a mafia PR and then going after the people defending me instead?

Him being caught up in tunnel vision.

Of course, YOU lynching us means you're committing suicide, character wise, but eh?

I refuse to accept that I'm not a BP, Sane Cop, Vig. I should not be in the same power class as lightweights like Thor!

It's too bad Thor was a VT.

Metal's gambit makes me think town. Most (all?) "lolz" gambits I have seen on site have come from town.

Didn't seem like a Lolz gambit. 1184 That's two shots against town from the same slot. We already knew that Jklash dayvig'd once. Whether or not he still has a second shot is debateable. With Jklash, I thought this is just a player that doesn't know how to use it. With a new player in the same slot pulling the same crap. It looks really scummy.

It's just Metal Sonic being Metal Sonic. I agree that I'd want him to be policy lynched if he vigged again this late in the day, but he's probably town.

I would prefer a Rufflig lynch over Yates, primarily since that slot is getting replaced. Pushes against such slots unnerve me, since there's no one there to defend against any allegations. It would be an easy lynch for scum to push at this point.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Could I define some of the abbreviations to get a more solid response out of you on the issue? You're town reading and defending the guy over this issue, and I think that's a pretty weird post that speaks *directly* to the question of him seeming too aware/convinced of multi scum (and other things) and yet you don't seem to be coming out with a clear response about his townishness in regards to it. He presumes two scum teams, okay, that's believable from town, I suppose, though I personally think it's a bit of a stretch (maybe a 50/50 in larges? I dunno - making up numbers here). Then he makes the jump to daytalk, which from what I can tell is hardly a given on this site (call it another 50/50 - and I failed/never took statistics, but that's probably a 25% or so theory game he's created in his head...that he's *using to scumhunt with*). Then he goes a step further and is like, scum are scumhunting with each other in their QTs. Which...I don't think I've ever seen, and though I guess it could be happening it...y'know, is weird. Like, first off, what sort of accusation is that to even throw at someone? What can I even say about it? And why does he believe it enough to state it with confidence? That moment made me basically as happy with a Josh lynch as a Yates lynch - and I didn't think that was going to happen today. I was pretty happy in my tunnel (and don't think it's anti-town even though it makes others grumpy). Can you tell me the town thought process here? Is it just "lulz, paranoia!" because that seems rather unlikely. What are your thoughts?

I could understand the multiball spec, although I found the QT spec weird. To be honest, I wasn't sure whether it actually was QT spec, as Josh was using a different abbreviation. It wasn't QT or PT, but something like DP or the like, which made me wonder if he might be talking about something else. In fact, he seems to be using DP to mean Day Phase, so I'm not so sure he's talking about day chat at all.

We need more votes on Rufflig.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

I agree DP means Day Phase, that makes sense and is my read too.
Now...who are the people I'm talking to if they are not people posting in the thread and in the Day Phase?
Right - scum in my scum chat.

I stand by my take of what he said. I'm not sure how you're getting anything else from it. Can you tell me what you think he was saying if it wasn't about a scum QT? I'm open to other ways to take what he's saying, i just don't think there are any.

Seeing as how he's asking for you to provide evidence that showed how your read on Displaced changed, I think he's referring to you talking to other people in the game, i.e. was the read change part of a conversation.

Even look at that, Josh isn't even caring about the situation, he's fine with Bulba defending him from what I'm saying, and he quick lazy wagons at the same time. Add him to my list of 'I can't believe people are not just not-scumreading him, but are town reading him.'

He joins Yates.

Stop whining about compromise votes near deadline and vote Rufflig.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

@ Everyone that's saying the reason they won't vote Yates 'cause he can't claim-dl is in 14 hours, lets say we run Ruffles up and get a claim...what is the point 'cause I don't think we'll have time to rewagon and then the onlt viable wagon after Ruffling is Yates so....what is the point in getting a claim?

My point has nothing about a claim. My point is that going after a slot that is getting replaced is rather cheap. I can understand why you are doing so, since you've been pushing the Yates-scum wagon for the longest time, but those that jumped on after Yates asked for replacement have a lot of explaining to do. Overall, I'd rather not lynch there today.

Seeing as how he's asking for you to provide evidence that showed how your read on Displaced changed, I think he's referring to you talking to other people in the game, i.e. was the read change part of a conversation.

I really don't see anything in what he said that supports that belief.

Wow! SqG, this post totally flipped my read on you... except I can't find where you called any of those people scum. Can you link to it? Because...

In this post I discuss 8 people who I gave reads on already.
You point out that 3 of them were not clearly stated...and are not actually even correct, I had a number of flat out clear comments that you just didn't even find, making me not even sure you even managed to show that I didn't...and I'm not sure what it shows even if you did. Mostly I think you're scum though.

WHERE ARE THE CLEAR COMMENTS? I WANT YOU TO SHOW THEM TO ME! nac

I specifically asked you about displaced earlier and you called him Null. Now all of a sudden he's scum and you've called him scum before. Were you talking to people in the DP when you said it? cause you have people on you right now saying that your reads post is bogus.

He asked where you said it and asked if you were talking to people in the DP (day phase) when you said it. I don't see anything about day talk here. This looks like asking for clarification for when you switched your reads.

I would prefer a Rufflig lynch over Yates, primarily since that slot is getting replaced. Pushes against such slots unnerve me, since there's no one there to defend against any allegations. It would be an easy lynch for scum to push at this point.

Hey, cool! I'll go tell the mod I'm replacing out. Want to know something? It won't change a damn thing. No one is making any allegations against either of us and haven't for quite some time. The town and scum are both being lazy. They are both comfortable where the votes are heading. Me? I don't like the leading wagons.

VOTE: Chandra

Seriously! Why isn't this dead yet?

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Seriously! Why isn't this dead yet?

Because I've been contributing to the game and scum hunting. Something you can't say about a lot of the players on the top wagons. I get accused of "sneaking" onto wagons that I push. Ha! Then I get suspicions thrown my way when I drop the same wagon because it doesn't seem so likely to be scum any more. Take a look at the players voting the top two wagons. How many of them have contributed anything to

either

any wagon besides a simple vote and that they are oh all so sorry to have to place on someone due to deadline crunch. Damn few. I bet they won't be looked at on day 2 either. So, hey! Have fun lynching the townies and helping scum to victory!

So, Bulba, do me a favor. Take off the blinders after I've been lynched and give pidgey and Chandra another look see. You'll find out that I was spot on about them.

I'll look into Unfriendly Neighbors. How about that?

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

I'm going to take a look at his last game, and Fenix and I will discuss our read during the night.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Josh_B 1 - Umbrage
Mozamis 1 - UniversalSlutBus,
Chandra Nalaar 2 - Viomi,The Rufflig

These people need to be looked at. Yates was the counter-wagon to ruffling, but these people were voting completely irrelevant people. Viomi to me comes out as the worst.
Umbrage second.

vote viomi

And I completely agree with Viomi being the worst.

Spoiler: In the case of Viomi the Mafia Player, Viomi, You are the scummiest

No, I got the joke. Made me giggle, but still seemed out of place, even for a joke.

Feel free to meta me to check out my jokes, They are usually more cruel (Check the Mini game I did long ago, its in my wiki I think?)

Mm. Except this account's playstyle is to ignore meta completely, which I will continue to do.

Feel free!

But I ain't changing my playstyle honestly, I have my reasons for it. And it makes mafia fun.

And I shall do the same.

IGMEOU, just letting you know I'll be pushing you for info probably tomorrow or later today.

This never got a full follow up.

Also, I'll jump back on the unfriendly wagon.
VOTE: unfirendlyneighbors

UNVOTE: UnfriendlyNeighbors

Purrrrrfect, just the reaction I was looking for.

VOTE: Josh_B

weak reasoning for jump voting.

Viomi, have you finished reading the thread yet?

I don't know why she is getting showered with townreads incidentally, seems null to me.

Nope. I don't work super proactively on catching up on games unless I'm scum.

I don't mind as long as you do it eventually and don't act super confident in the meantime.

Confident?

I've basically given up on this game since any town-reads on me might as well be votes. I'm going to get NK'd again and so this game is pointless until then.

I've been reading though, albeit at my leisure.

I'm calling bullsnot on this. Cause now it just looks like you're either scum sticking out like a sore thumb that needs nailed down/roped, or just really bad town that we don't need sticking around.

I have not seen near enough from Yates to deem scum.

I still say Josh_B is hard scum.

Still hadn't given ANY reasons as to why they were scum.

I have not seen near enough from Yates to deem scum.

I still say Josh_B is hard scum.

Not enough traction for josh lynch. And I used up all my shots. Otherwise I would have cut this scumbutt into pieces

If you're town, you should be helping us lynch this scummy bastard. As in, trying to convince people to get traction.

I will again state that ^ post, to me, reads as someone trying to keep blood off of their hands. Cause, with how Josh played yesterday, he came off town as fuck.

Wow, you're really working on that posture for tomorrow, eh?

No, cool with lynching Yates or Rufflig, and I think we should be debating between those two, as opposed to lynching Josh, who is not scum.

Instead of just saying stuff as if it's facts instead of the crazy voices in your head, why don't you give us an example as to

why

Josh isn't scum?

Very, VERY accusing when not even trying to put a case down for why josh WAS/IS scummy.

Between Viomi, KidA, and Umbridge, I want one of these to get rope today!

~Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

And why are you two the coincidentally same two people that rufflig called out wth

Because Rufflig was obvious scum and needed stringing up

~Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

And why are you two the coincidentally same two people that rufflig called out wth

Because Rufflig was obvious scum and needed stringing up

~Fenix

Of course he's obvious scum

What if he was death bussing WIFOM?

The main thing that pulls me to consider ANYTHING he might have said, it's this quote

So, Bulba, do me a favor. Take off the blinders after I've been lynched and give pidgey and Chandra another look see. You'll find out that I was spot on about them.

Not sure if he was death bussing, or just trying to drag people down with him, but it's something I'm keeping in the back of MY mind and food for thought for me. However, for NOW, my partner and I are moving forward with other targets in mind that we both agree are bigger fish to fry.

~Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

I love double day action it makes me want to hip shoot someone right now



Let's not be rash


I don't think Pv is scum because that would mean he would be scum in all the games is play with him

I'm going to tell you this, if you shoot A-N-Y-O-N-E!! You better shoot ZZX or KidA.

~Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

I love double day action it makes me want to hip shoot someone right now



Let's not be rash


I don't think Pv is scum because that would mean he would be scum in all the games is play with him

Fine. Talking with Bulba now. Shoot KidA. NOW! Shoot him, NOW! The reason why Bulba says so is because we're looking over the SG and Ruffles ISO, and SG overlooked something that she should not have as town.

~Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

and a SG scum kinda makes me think Mala scum so I'ma vote that and then do some reading

vote:Mala

Why does SG-scum equal Mala-scum?

Also, can anyone come up with a second scumteam name that would be plausible at all? Or is this an SK/vig?

I don't think the name has anything to do with it. Its plausible that the SG/Ruff team (we'll call it nutruffs) shot Thad and the other team shot SG. Or Thad could be the lone scum kill and SG is vig/sk. *shrugz*

Given the unique faction name and the warning about possible incursion threats, I'm pretty sure this is multiball. Why are you trying to dismiss the possibility?

I still find josh scummy but I still need some more re-reading

Vote: Josh

again meanwhile

Also how is yates slot confirmed town? We could have many scum teams as the whole last day arguement went.

This is still scum. Continuing to tunnel on Josh (who I believe scum really want dead), while simultaneously pushing the theory that got Josh into trouble in the first place.

How was your reading session, bulba?

I was wrong. You're town.

I love double day action it makes me want to hip shoot someone right now



Let's not be rash


I don't think Pv is scum because that would mean he would be scum in all the games is play with him

Fine. Talking with Bulba now. Shoot KidA. NOW! Shoot him, NOW! The reason why Bulba says so is because we're looking over the SG and Ruffles ISO, and SG overlooked something that she should not have as town.

~Fenix

Now????

Can I do it later

i got the worst marvel character does anyone want to trade

i got wolverine can i just say that im someone else

from now on im paste pot pete

going to hammer if nobody objects

Metal Sonic. Shoot. Kid A. Now.

Someone talk to me about Yates, why didn't Rufling vote him?

No clue. My best guess is to set the slot up after he was lynched. However, there is no way that Yates and Squirrel Girl were scum together.

Nero scumhunting for only 1 team worries me.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

[quote="In [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 6#p5869556]

And I completely agree with Viomi being the worst.

Considering I hadn't even gotten a chance to POST yet, of fucking COURSE it didn't get a follow up yet.

At that post, yes. However, you had enough time from then (the time you made that post), til deadline to make your case. I'm willing to go out on a limb and say you were coaching your partner within the thread, letting them know ahead of time that you were going to be attacking them and to not worry/lose their cool.

How is a reaction test that worked and resulted in Josh_B jumping on a wagon just like I predicted his scummy ass would "weak reasoning"?

Because Josh is so town it hurts. I'd be willing to eat my hat collection if he flips scum.

Considering if Metal Sonic's shot is real, then it wouldn't be something new, as I always get shot or killed early on. I don't get how that makes me bad town, it doesn't help town to have more town dead at all?

But that's the thing though, MS is bs'ing with the dayvig in thread thing. Cause unless the mod themselves comes in and says, YOU'RE DEAD! I take any 'dayvig X' (that comes from him or any player that tries to pull that stunt) with a grain of salt and move on.

Are you stupid or just blind? Since when did Viomi, notoriously no fucks given, care about keeping blood off her hands? And secondly, that post is trying to get traction in the first place; so I don't see how it's trying to make "someone else" do the dirty work, as was stated (by you I believe, not going to find the quote.)

You can find the quote all you want, it still reads the same and it won't change when you find it. Why are YOU not getting down and getting into the grit of actually laying out a case against Josh if you find him so scummy? That's how you get who/what you want lynched in this game, you lay out a case.

Wow, you're really working on that posture for tomorrow, eh?

No, cool with lynching Yates or Rufflig, and I think we should be debating between those two, as opposed to lynching Josh, who is not scum.

Instead of just saying stuff as if it's facts instead of the crazy voices in your head, why don't you give us an example as to

why

Josh isn't scum?

Very, VERY accusing when not even trying to put a case down for why josh WAS/IS scummy.

I always point out bad logic. Don't see how it's scummy.

Because logically, those 2 were the 2 wagons we were debating between yesterday. You had NO reasoning in your argument against josh accept sticking your fingers in your ear and going 'lalalalala josh is scum. lalalalaalalalalala'.

~Fenix

Can we PLEASE string this up today!?

~Fenix

PE: Fuck this embed policy bullshit. I had to cut to properly respond and it's annoying as shit to have to do that.

[BulbaFenix]

I think her "no mala wasn't trolling" seems like the soft type of defense from scum.

I don't see that.

Except it doesn't really say anything like that.

Note some bad guys may not be from the Marvel Universe due to 'incursions'

I also explicitly stated that the two shots could be scum/scum.

You seem to be focusing a lot more on vig or SK.

Josh-the players that Ruf/SG are most likely NOT on their team. So they are 50% conf town. Though Ruff not voting Yates is pretty mind boggling dumb. Its not impossible for Yates to get ran up and then Ruff. Was Yates a Ruff buddy? Did they think Yates was other scum and were trying to placate them?

Stop focusing on Ruff. SG's posts show that Yates is not scum with them.

TWIE has also not towned it up like last game.

He's posted once. I'm not sure how much he could be expected to town it up in a single post.

Hey bulba now that you did your meta homework and came around, wanna be in thread masons with me and wreck some shit?

Absolutely.

I still feel Josh is likely scum but I'm willing to listen to those making a case that it's a town derp.

Josh is town. His confusion regarding fake claims was genuine, and I've liked his scumhunting and thought process. I think he got close yesterday in regards to who is scum, and I think scum really want him dead. Essentially, not only do I think his posts show scumhunting and him being obv. town, but I don't like those that are pushing his wagon.

I'm the REAL squirrel girl, so there's that!

Girl power?

So can we kindly stop fucking shooting from the hip without asking for claims or anything? Because that would be super nice. Also "stabbed in the bacK' is one helluva flavor. Sonic, what is your character and why is he backstabbing?

Metal would it absolutely kill you to stop impulse shooting and act as a fucking second lynch?

I asked MS to shoot Kid A. I thought I saw clear associative signs that he was the last Marvel scum, but I was clearly wrong. Regardless, it was a good shot and rid the town of a useless slot and potential liability.

Vote ZZZX

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

In other news, Fenix is bad. Josh_B is still scum. PereV is town. Chandra is town. UN is null. Bulba is okay. Bulba, why would you ruin yourself and hydra with Fenix? Poor bulba.


EBWOP:
"backstab"
If he's not SK, he's scum.

In other news, Viomi's still scum. Hasn't provided a lick of a case against Josh, just doing the same shtick over and over again hoping it eventually works. Back to you, Tom!

PE:

@Fenix, once again, I

apologize

for not sheeping main wagons. It's not my playstyle.

Fuck why don't people meta before making shitty cases?

I play in the moment. Because, for me, meta means squat.

Bad as they may seem to you, bulbafenix is still town as fuck, Viomi.

Never said they weren't.

@Fenix, once again, I

apologize

for not sheeping main wagons. It's not my playstyle.

Fuck why don't people meta before making shitty cases?

Not everyone uses meta, speaking as somebody that does use it. Conversational style has shifted to become the main focus of 2014.

Dear god that's horrible

Wrong year to get back into mafiascum I guess?

Here's a hint to all of you: If you want to sort someone, meta them. It will show you their usual town and scum behavior. Trying to make a case against me and saying that my rage = scum, when I've had this

exact

fucking case made against me three times before and every time I flipped town, is just fucking stupid.

When, at ANY point in this have I said that your rage = scum?!
~Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

Bulba, why would you ruin yourself and hydra with Fenix? Poor bulba.

I know him IRL, which means we are able to communicate a lot more regularly than any other hydra I've been in. Also, our reads have been pretty similar this game, which hardly ever happens. Together, we tend to accurately find scum, and us agreeing is a very good sign.

Also, using AtE on me and trying to turn me against my partner is not going to work. While I don't agree with everything he's saying, I do agree that you're scum, so I'm letting him have at you. You're not going to get any sympathy from me in the hopes of my leashing him.

My thought is basically that jklash was an idiot and fucked himself over.

It also explains why the number of shots metal possesses has been like four different numbers and why he is shooting in an antitown manner.

I don't think the shots have been as anti-town as everyone else does. They've been focusing on slots that you don't want near endgame, and that's classic vig behavior. Plus, MS is playing to his town meta.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

I asked MS to shoot Kid A. I thought I saw clear associative signs that he was the last Marvel scum, but I was clearly wrong. Regardless, it was a good shot and rid the town of a useless slot and potential liability.

I know, but the town thing to do would have been to wait for a consensus. I'm thinking he just knows he's ultimately boned by his predecessor's stupidity and is just trolling.

And his predecessor claimed out of nowhere why?

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

In other news, Fenix is bad. Josh_B is still scum. PereV is town. Chandra is town. UN is null. Bulba is okay. Bulba, why would you ruin yourself and hydra with Fenix? Poor bulba.


EBWOP:
"backstab"
If he's not SK, he's scum.

In other news, Viomi's still scum. Hasn't provided a lick of a case against Josh, just doing the same shtick over and over again hoping it eventually works. Back to you, Tom!

PE:

@Fenix, once again, I

apologize

for not sheeping main wagons. It's not my playstyle.

Fuck why don't people meta before making shitty cases?

I play in the moment. Because, for me, meta means squat.

Bad as they may seem to you, bulbafenix is still town as fuck, Viomi.

Never said they weren't.

@Fenix, once again, I

apologize

for not sheeping main wagons. It's not my playstyle.

Fuck why don't people meta before making shitty cases?

Not everyone uses meta, speaking as somebody that does use it. Conversational style has shifted to become the main focus of 2014.

Dear god that's horrible

Wrong year to get back into mafiascum I guess?

Here's a hint to all of you: If you want to sort someone, meta them. It will show you their usual town and scum behavior. Trying to make a case against me and saying that my rage = scum, when I've had this

exact

fucking case made against me three times before and every time I flipped town, is just fucking stupid.

When, at ANY point in this have I said that your rage = scum?!
~Fenix

I think you're kind of dumb

The rage = scum was referring to Metal... Are you reading the game?

Notice how I'm not voting Josh_B at the moment. I'm sorry that for some reason you don't seem to understand that I don't have to make a case on him if I'm not pushing him. Thanks bud.

Bulba, go back to playing on your own. You're way better solo.

The fact that you're trying to Appeal to my partner is so funny, you should pay someone else write your posts.

Bulba and I have quite the differential play style individually, and since we both know how the other plays (tl;dr, Good Cop ((Bulba)) Dirty Cop ((Me))), plus the fact that we know one another IRL, we tend to challenge one another on an intellectual level when we hydra together. Bulba has more time and games dedicated to this site and knows how to play with a good majority of the big players on this site. I, get to play mafia on my downtime from college. So, when my time isn't dedicated to slaving away at campus and frying my brain there, I can chillax and unwind here. I'm also willing to challenge my partner on his reads when I think they're wrong. Hence our signature cause from our very first time hydra'ing, we clashed HARD. In the thread.

Yes I am reading to answer your question. But if you keep wanting people to VOTE for someone and keep saying that they're scum, do the class a favor and show why. Otherwise, nothings going to come of you just saying, "braaaaaaack, X is scum. Braaaaaaaack". I could sit here and say you're scum all day, but if I don't point out why, then no one is gonna listen/see why.

You also don't have to "push" to get people to hear you out on WHY you think someone is scummy. Layout the case, then allow for responses and counter banter by the group and player being accused. Show where they slipped up or went wrong. Is the evidence convincing enough that it makes sense for people to vote them? Yes?!

Vote! *player name here*

Also, didn't know you were referencing to MS specifically. So maybe specify next time, instead of saying 'here's a hint to all of you'.

I thought I'd also show that I'm not caring about the rage, I want you to swing for more legit reasons.

Vote Viomi

~Fenix

(ps. To Bulba. You can neva leash me! For I am the terror that flaps in the night!! )

[BulbaFenix]

Bulba, go back to playing on your own. You're way better solo.

Stop trying to turn me against my partner. It won't work.

(ps. To Bulba. You can neva leash me! For I am the terror that flaps in the night!! )

Yes, but I pilot the plane...And crash it. And I also work for someone with more money than you on occasion.

Well bulbafenix wanted me to shoot kid a 'now' so I thought they thought kid a crumbed some dangerous scum day pr. Which was wrong. Which I wrongly sheeped. Which would have been mislynch bait for scum anyway.

I thought I saw an associative link between Squirrel Girl and Kid A. I was wrong.

And yeah i pretty much agree with chandra (again) and bulba and what others say, your play is not optimal, and your decisions suck and i doubt you are only a 2vig shot (if you are not an sk at this point)

Actually, I was the one that talked him into the Kid A shot, so don't try to use me to chastise him.

I want Viomi to be scum but I'm not convinced she actually is.

riginally wanted to fake vig josh b but his post with his daughter crashing his computer made me soft so I didn't do it. And that post made him look town. So I looked to see if his suspicious attacker viomi would yield good townie results. Didn't find

With all of the possible REAL suspects, You shot KidA? Seriously, based on Chandra's mentioning of KidA's experience, I thought KidA's role was "unlynchable".(I would have acted that way if I was unlynchable- actually I have acted the same way with unlynchable) I guess I'm still not used to all of MafiaScum's VT's. But regardless, a KidA lynch later in the game would have yielded more results. If you think I'm town, why didn't you shoot ZZZX? He the one that was trying to make the case on me being a scum, by using posts out of context, pretending that I didn't respond to him, asking questions that I've already answered and he repsonded to, then calling my drawing attention to it scummy. And more importantly, if you just sheeped what some other people said, why didn't you change your vote to one of the people who tricked you?

I would normally do this but good god that was retarded. So retarded that I'm going to:
VOTE: Metal Sonic

Sooo... Horrible! I don't care if you are Elektra. right now. You need public shaming.

Don't you dare! MS was just listening to me, and I was wrong. If you're going to yell at someone, yell at me, but don't you dare try to PL MS.

If Thaddy was nightkilled by mafia, then it points to Joshy being scum given Thaddy's primary suspect. If Squirly was nightkilled by mafia, then...it still points to Joshy being scum given that he was among Squirly's primary suspects. It is safe to say Joshy is not a member of the Marvel Villains scumteam. However, he is my number one suspect for being a member of the other scumteam.

And you don't think scum is capable of killing people to set up a lynch? Get your head out of your sugary rear end.

Viomi, I like your personality, but moving vote from josh to Chandra is just a very, very bad move.

Thus why Vimmy is sweet, and attempts to paint him as sour are bad. (It may have been anti-town, but it is not an anti-town move an actual scum player would make. That move had sweetness written all over it.) Vezzy's attempt in particular rubbed me the wrong way.

*head desk*

Speaking of which, I found BulbyFenny's approach to this whole matter highly suspect. They basically bullied Sonny into shooting Kiddy, when Sonny's first instinct was to shoot Joshy. Additionally, they have painted Vinny as being sour. They have committed just about every suspicious act I look for in a multiball game, including their buddying up to Squirly who ended up dead last night.

Yes, I pushed MS into shooting Kid A, because he had claimed wanting to be a villain, and Squirrel Girl, who had just been BSing with Rufflig and showing off her Marvel knowledge moments before, didn't even blink. Couple that with a fake looking early claim in Kid A's first post, and what looked like a grab for towncred with a late Rufflig hammer, and I felt confident that I had found the last Marvel scum member, and I was anxious to get rid of a NK. And let's not even get into the fact that your reads stink. Josh is town. Viomi is scum. ZZZX is scum. Universal Neighbors is town. Vezok is town. And I almost guarantee that the last 2 scum are on your town list somewhere. I don't know what game you're reading, but it's certainly not this one. Finally, where in the world do you get that we were buddying Squirrel Girl? I was paranoid of that slot, because she didn't say anything about Kid A's Paste Pot Pete comment. I was seriously entertaining opposite scum read interactions with Yates, just like Josh, who, by the way, was talking about multiball after it had already been brought up by Yates as a near certainty due to mod meta. *gasp* So you saying that we were buddying Squirrel Girl is certainly news to me.

And there is additionally this gem.

Nero scumhunting for only 1 team worries me.

-Bulba

A fact that he himself is guilty of by only hunting for partners of Squirly and Fliggy.

I want to get rid of a NK if it is all possible. Sue me.

Zexxy will flip town the same way Kiddy did. Especially since the 'case' against Zexxy is being pushed by the same player who pushed the Kiddy one.

Yeah. You definitely need to reevaluate your reads. Actually, you probably need to reevaluate your entire approach to this game.

Also, Fenix wants me to tell you that we're switching to Log Cabin for our breakfast pancakes and french toast from now on. Whatever that means...

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

I'd actually rather have that NK in the game right now, since it should probably be shooting for the other scumgroup at this point.

When I'm scum in a multiball game, I consider extra NKs to be my best friend, as they bring the game closer to Lylo. NKs will normally be used to shoot town, and as such, having more NKs means that we're going to be losing more town per night. We get rid of 1 NK, and not only does that mean less town die at night, but it also means that we can prolong the amount of time it will take to get to Lylo, giving us more chances to finish off scum.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Hey BulbaF

I noticed that you answered people questions about the reasoning for killing KidA which is fine and all except for the part where I dont give a fuck about that.

Could you now expound on the more important part and answer why you insisted several times that Sonic should shoot "now"?

I'm assuming you didnt notice when I suggested that you do this before, rather than ignored it.


On a seperate note:

That viomi wagon looks pretty fucking awful.

I do believe Bulba DID answer, just not to you though.

~Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

Viomi is so scum. That town posturing is incredibly forced.

Too bad no one wants to listen... Cause that needs strung up so bad.

~Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

Can someone tell me why the pressure is focused on me suddenly?

Nervous scum is nervous.

I am surprised in the start of a day that I said nothing in good bulbasaur fenix is somehow thinking I am scum after reading me as town last day?

We've been scumreading you since the beginning of the game. Keep flailing, though. This is amusing.

If scum wanted someone dead they can nightkill him.

Not if they think they can get him lynched.

Also why do scum want him dead?

I think he might have been dead on with some of his scum reads on d1, around where the Josh-scum push really began.

Try to talk about who you vote before you vote them. you mention me once 3 pages ago and now vote me with 0 wording

This is a lie. We've been talking about you being scum for awhile. Heck, we pushed you d1.

Trying to make a wagon happen?

Not at the moment. We want to lynch your partner first.

Don't ask me to full claim until mass claim

I noticed you are alive, That means we might have a doctor too.Or that you are fake claiming or that you are scum. Good things to note.

I expect the 2nd

Look. Mudslinging.

Your gamble was way too clear to be a gamble and viomi reaction was made. I smell mafia bus?

This is scum knowing that Viomi's flipping scum will incriminate him and trying to tie MS to the flip ahead of time.

A good scum would instead try to fire a better shot possibly hitting some other scum from his team for town cred.

Your reasoning is that you cant see me as t8wn but I see myself as town.

And obviously you are a trustworthy source.

I think I played with bulba before.

I don't remember you. Remind me if I'm wrong.

your play style is kinda scummy too lol

do you have anything better to say

I ment he isnt the usual him I guess. But it might be an effect of hyra'ing

But I always play like dat

I thought you just got done saying you'd never played with Fenix before?

but if im fooled like in l4d2 like stal did well i'll be damned

Stal was transparent scum. I called him out d1. Heck, he should have been lynched after the herder claim, but I guess I should give up trying to expect town to lynch conf. scum after NY171.

Kid A was, Wolverine Vanilla Town Stabbed in the back day 2

That is what trusting them will produce.

So is this:

The Ruffling was Ultron. Marvel Universe Villain Alliance mafia Encryptor lynched day 1

Also, Fenix wants me to tell you that we're switching to Log Cabin for our breakfast pancakes and french toast from now on. Whatever that means...

It means that he hates Aunt Jemima syrup, now.

I prefer Mrs. Butterworth myself.

It should be noted that BulbyFenny is also slightly on my meta list, in that BulbyFenny fooling me is not to be unexpected on D1, especially given multiball, but now that I know it is multiball and that BulbyFenny is approaching this game like multiball, it paints their posting (in particular, Bulby's) in a different light. I am quite aware of their skill in that environment, and looking town while furthering their scum faction's wincon is something they are frighteningly good at doing.

I'm pretty skillful as scum in general. I don't think it has to do with multiball. Also, Fenix is pretty transparent as scum if you know what you're looking for. We have yet to play a scum game with this hydra, so I'm not sure how the combination of our two styles would fare in that situation.

Could you now expound on the more important part and answer why you insisted several times that Sonic should shoot "now"?

I thought that Kid A was the last member of the Marvel scum team, and I wanted to get rid of the extra NK. I thought it was best to do so early, so as to not disrupt scuhunting by resetting the vote count, and by taking hunting for 2 teams out of consideration.

So unless you can point to where the reasoning for shooting immediately is, I'd prefer a better answer.

That's the best you're going to get.

Viomi is a shit lynch that gives us no information.

I actually think her lynch will give us a lot of information. There are some great associatives in connection with her.

She thought she was dead and threw a fit. I've done it countless times as town.

Except the way she did so was more indicative of scum than town.

For fuck's sake, why is NOBODY ELSE looking at the Rufflig lynch? There was likely bussing on that wagon early on. There was likely opposing scum/SK on it closer to lynch.

I haven't done half the research I want to do in connection with this game. I plan on getting to it, but I'd like to deal with the present situation. If you think that VCA is such an urgent task, why don't you do it?

And you guys are fucking around with someone who did fuck-all D1?

I'm not seeing the downside here.

Come on. We have a plethora of information and what happens? A dick measuring contest between Sonic and ZZZX. It's getting fucking painful to read this thread.

If you cared just as much about case building as you do complaining, you might actually be useful in this game.

On to page 70.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Alright Nero, talk to me. What's with the vote? Also, slow clap to Josh_B for his post in response to displaced. I got a good chuckle outta that

~Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

You don't know why I'm voting you? You should die just for that.

*sigh*

Nero, I can read. It sticks out quite well. Now, I'm curious, what was your connection of SG and Mala? I'm all ears. Because, unless I've missed it, I didn't see the FULL explanation/case. Unless it was just Mala = scum because SG was scum.

~Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

I feel Ragey is likely sweet for this, because it strongly indicates a mindset not yet recovered from the reveal of multiball, in that he is still thinking partially in terms of a single-faction game.

Really? Because if I saw someone locked into hunting for a single faction, I'd be incredibly suspicious.

This also doesn't explain the difference in reactions in joshb and viomi, despite both being subject to a similar dayvig gambit and both claiming to be upset

Oh, but it does. Vinny reacted in a town manner. Joshy reacted in a scum manner. Vinny's sweet, Joshy's sour. I am betting my life on it.

Actually, I see those reactions as being the opposite. Viomi reacted in a scum manner, and Josh acted in a town one. I'd advise not betting your life on protecting scum.

Just thought I'd let everyone know, I took a quick look at pages 66, 67, and 68, and immediately closed them.

I. Am. Not. Reading. This. Shit.

VOTE: ZZZX because I cannot fucking read this game with his constant shitposting. Regardless of actual alignment, he and Metal Sonic are the most anti-town players in the game.

I normally hate policy lynches, but I HAVE NO OTHER FUCKING CHOICE HERE.

FUCK YOU TWO EGOTISTICAL ASSHOLES, YOU POMPOUS AIRHEADS WHO THINK YOUR SHIT DOESN'T STINK. FUCK YOU BOTH.

Stop making excuses for why you can't scumhunt!

Am starting to disbelieve in Viomi being scum again, but probably because Bulba isn't here to tell me she is again.

Chandra, I didn't think it was required that I be here just so you could lynch scum and keep from lynching town. Now get your vote back on Viomi.

I thought I saw an associative link between Squirrel Girl and Kid A. I was wrong.

So when I find what I feel is a link between Mala and SG its wrong and I shouldn't push Mala. What's the difference here?

Don't even start that with me Nero. You're acting like I shouted you down about a Mala/SG connection, when I didn't. I simply asked why you thought they were scum together and then disagreed with you. Also, in the realm of "in case I'm wrong", Mala is not even in the same league as Kid A. Kid A was a good shot regardless, as he was providing nothing to the town. Mala, if town, is someone you want to keep around.

VOTE: Beast

I've seen beast play town, and he tends to go after less easy/omgusy targets, and has more different/against the grain reads if I recall correctly. I also just don't think his posts are genuine, as meaningless a statement as that may be. Also, I still take the issues I did yesterday, and I didn't buy voting me as a reaction.

I also think Vezok is scum. Even when he pushes things, his pushes don't have any real conviction. I was gonna drag up some quotes for this, but I got bored.

Come on, Chandra. I know the sugary sweet reads of AJ are so tempting, but they are oh so wrong for you.

Bulba is "I would fakeclaim masons with him/fake a cop inno on him" level of town. And I'm pretty damn sure he feels the same, which is nice, it's great coming into a game with a strong townread for day two, with two scum down.

I think it's time to develop a town block of awesome like we had in Fire Emblem.

Bulba is "I would fakeclaim masons with him/fake a cop inno on him" level of town. And I'm pretty damn sure he feels the same, which is nice, it's great coming into a game with a strong townread for day two, with two scum down.

Prepare for some heartbreak, deary, assuming you are town.

AJ, you should listen to UN. They know what they're talking about.

ZZZX
Chandra
RachMarie

^ Suspect lynch in order of scummiest, top to bottom. Rach scumread is new. I've played 3 games with her now I believe, including her first on the site. Townplay = Very very active, Scumplay = Very very not active.

Rach was not very active in Fire and Ice, and she was town there.

Try to talk about who you vote before you vote them. you mention me once 3 pages ago and now vote me with 0 wording

This is a lie. We've been talking about you being scum for awhile. Heck, we pushed you d1.

That is a lie. Want me to quote it?

Sure, in fact, let me do it for you:

Spoiler: BulbaFenix suspects ZZZX D1

HALF the BWs that are going on right now are shit and are lead by scum

Given that nobody was voting at that point, I doubt it. However, this is a rather strange statement for you to make.

Dear Diary, I found another guy who ignored my reply to him and uses same BS argument which has been proven so false. While he is saying I did things I didnt do such as Role Fishing.

Also the dear town has been ignoring my posts with only Yates replying to them. I am actually liking him for that.

Now I got voted for reasons that do not exsist while scum pushes me for fake reasons and noone notices.

This seems like a normal day indeed.

#ZZZX

Dear Diary,

They're on to me. I have to create some sort of counter wagon to get them off my trail. Luckily, one of my strongest attackers is starting to get votes. That seems like a good option. I hope no one realizes I'm scum.

Hugs and kisses,
ZZZX

I don't see how ZZZX's post has anything to do with UN.

-Bulba

Let's say you were scum goon, and one of your team mates with a power role was being threatened to be lynched. How would you play it?
ZZZX's post is too erratic to come from a common scum without purpose, and too manipulative and misleading to come from town.
The most recent upturn on a wagon was that of UnFriendlyNieghbors.
Now that we know ZZZX is obvscum. We should evaluate the reasons for such a post-

i.e. Sacrifice for protection

.

Josh is right.
Also that doesn't feel like town cabd even though I have limited experience with her.

vote unfriendly neighbours

Just for your info you two seem like a scum team there

since what you said doesnt make sense again

I'm good with a ZZZX lynch.

@Bulba I explained what I said 2 lines below it. Why did you ignore that part?

I didn't see an explanation. I only saw a justification.

Whatever, ZZZX is scum, but why does he make it so obvious.
Let's lynch him and find out logical my theory is.

VOTE: ZZZX

Sorry for the Tiny Text. I didn't do it on purpose. I tried to get that post out 3 different times and I finally just pared it down to the very basic concept.
ZZZX claimed that he hadn't read the posts despite him having commented on the posts when they occurred. Both times when he called me scum, his comments were misrepresenting the facts and forcing scuminess into my posts that wasn't there.

Now. ZZZX is scum and he's made it obvious which is an unnatural scum thing to do. So, I'm trying to consider his motivation for doing it. I think it's because of the recent snowballing on the UFN wagon. There is no way a scum would be so blatent about his misreps unless it was to save a partner with a PR.

I suspect that ZZZX is a Goon and UFN is the PR that he is trying to protect.

P-edit. ZZZX, Not knowing what was said is one thing. Not remembering what you said is an obvious red flag.

So you say UFN is the PR mafia and you... vote me?

How contridacting yourself

Its called wifom Son

No, I got the joke. Made me giggle, but still seemed out of place, even for a joke.

Feel free to meta me to check out my jokes, They are usually more cruel (Check the Mini game I did long ago, its in my wiki I think?)

Mm. Except this account's playstyle is to ignore meta completely, which I will continue to do.

Feel free!

But I ain't changing my playstyle honestly, I have my reasons for it. And it makes mafia fun.

And I shall do the same.

IGMEOU, just letting you know I'll be pushing you for info probably tomorrow or later today.

Yes, because by telling him the pressure is coming, he'll really be caught off guard.

-Bulba

I... Dont know what to say

I have 2 pages of posts with 0 replies to them, I am being totally ignored

YES! I AM INVISIBLE.

gosh... This game is going to throw me insane one day

this is town as fuck

I don't see how. Josh was clearly tackling 1 post at a time. ZZZX's freak out and push looks more like scum trying to push the advantage by going "Hey! Look! He's not responding to me! He must be scum! Lynch him!". It didn't feel natural at all.

Man this back and forth by josh and Zzzx.

Though mostly null, it is not entirely pointless. Zexxy looks slightly more sweet and Joshy slightly more sour as a result of the exchange.

Really? Because I got the opposite.

Trying to make a wagon happen?

Not at the moment. We want to lynch your partner first.

Well that doesnt make sense at all.

Why not? I think you and Viomi are scum together, and Viomi has the bigger wagon and will implicate you upon her flip, due to her warning you about pressuring you on d2. Why doesn't it make sense for us to want to lynch your partner, who is a more viable wagon, over you?

If we end up losing a doctor and MS not dying as dayvig it will be weird as fuck

Why? I don't see MS as a prime NK target, do you?

Your gamble was way too clear to be a gamble and viomi reaction was made. I smell mafia bus?

This is scum knowing that Viomi's flipping scum will incriminate him and trying to tie MS to the flip ahead of time.

Again theory crafting

How is this theory crafting?

your play style is kinda scummy too lol

do you have anything better to say

I ment he isnt the usual him I guess. But it might be an effect of hyra'ing

But I always play like dat

I thought you just got done saying you'd never played with Fenix before?

Yea I am sure I didnt play with Fenix

But you just got done saying that Fenix's play was not like his usual play. How can that be if you've never played with Fenix before?

VIOMI'S SMALL BEANS

BEAST IS THE BIG FISH

I WANT THE BIG FISH

No, Viomi is scum that we are having trouble lynching. Beast is lynch bait.

On to page 74.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

I really feel like Bulba is a mile and a half up the wrong tree this game :/

Though admittedly not a solid one, this is in fact a minor scumtell of Bulby.

What? My scumhunting has always been hit and miss. I tend to get a few right but miss the rest. I've also been monumentally off, like in Binding of Isaac. Granted, I've been getting better recently, but it always surprises me when people call me a great scumhunter. Heck, the reason why I feel so solid this game is because both heads of the hydra are agreeing, which is a very rare occurrence. And seeing how we called most of the scum in our first game together, I can only see that as a good sign.

I find it strange, though, that you claim such intimate knowledge of my meta, even though it is off. Have we played together, or did you just do a quick skim of some of my old games?

I thought that Kid A was the last member of the Marvel scum team, and I wanted to get rid of the extra NK. I thought it was best to do so early, so as to not disrupt scuhunting by resetting the vote count, and by taking hunting for 2 teams out of consideration.

I do not find this logic to be convincing. Though it holds some ground in theory, I do not see a town-you advocating this, given the consequences it can (and did) produce: a wasted shot, with no information gained from it.

It was probably not the best decision, but I don't think it was a wasted shot.

What do we get from a Vinny town-flip?

We get information based on who was calling her town and defending her and who was on her wagon.

What do we get if Vinny flips last Marvel Villain?

(And if you try to speculate four Marvel Villains, my vote never leaves you for the entirety of the game.) What do we get if Vinny flips serial killer? What do we get if Vinny flips the currently-unrevealed mafia faction?

If you do not have an answer for each (although there is admittedly overlap), then you're lying. (Rather, telling the truth, from a specific perspective: that of a scum player who already knows more.)

I plan on getting to it, but I'd like to deal with the present situation.

Define what you mean by 'present situation', and "dealing with present situation". And while you are at it, explain why the present situation dictates VCA to not be important to you.

oh and chandra, you are a wee bit full of self by about a smidge.

The entire playerlist's egos put together in a room the size of mine would be able to fit snugly. However much Nally is, I am admittedly worse. However, my play holds little arrogance, for my many years of experience has taught me that it is simply justified confidence.

Thus why I wish others to follow me.[/quote]

Hooray, I'm back, and mostly caught up! It was a lot to take in all at once, but more to confirm the way I already felt, rather than change anything. What's the average scum ratio? I'm seeing others say its 3 on one team and 4 on the other team, but is 4 and 4 an option?

Just thought I'd let everyone know, I took a quick look at pages 66, 67, and 68, and immediately closed them.

I. Am. Not. Reading. This. Shit.

VOTE: ZZZX because I cannot fucking read this game with his constant shitposting. Regardless of actual alignment, he and Metal Sonic are the most anti-town players in the game.

I normally hate policy lynches, but I HAVE NO OTHER FUCKING CHOICE HERE.


everyone get off Viomi and on ZZZX or Sonic plz

we might not lynch scum but we'll make the game readable

Scum with viomi. Says he hates policy lynches then goes on to say he has no other choice. Also chainsaw defense on viomi.

vezo, it says your account is from 2010, yet this seems to be your first game?

Having a townread and disagreeing with a lynch does not somehow = chainsaw defense. Please look up the meaning of chainsaw defense, then come back to play.

If it were scummy to be the oldest and worst player in the game, I would vote you.

Way to regurgitate the chainsaw defense argument there guy. I nailed Ruflig and SqG on it earlier, but :trumpet sound(der-da-der): it was legit. This seems week and not thought out. I'm feeling Displaced and Vezok as the two remaining MUVA scum. MUVA having 4 players makes sense given the fact that one of their players was assigned to allow daychat.

AuntJ- I am seriously getting a town vibe from your slot. I see how you are trying to make connections and I like that. However, get off my nuts. The only people supporting your theories seem scum. I would say it's just you trying to push a lynch on a town. But you're giving details on your methods and I like that you are thinking about stuff. I'm town, I do think PerV and BulbaFenix are town, but it didn't come with out heartaches between us. Maybe you missed those, or you're calling them fake because that's what you want to believe, or you're doing it on purpose. Whichever, stop, Just because you're town doesn't mean you're exactly right.

I still feel like Yates(TWIE), ZZZX, and UFN are on the "red team" but I'm getting some mixed feeling about Chandra/Umbrage.

What do you guys think about a third faction? Would Mod meta or previous games support that idea as possible? I mean it hurts but I'm thinking 9 scum is a lot. UFN I'd vote for again, ZZZX I definitely think is scum, Yates/TWIE is probably scum with ZZZX.

Chandra/Umbrage seem to be working together to try to get BeastCharizard lynched, but I'm not sure why. Chandra's social studies project from earlier seamed really shady to me. Both of them are tunneling on the same player all game. Maybe they're right, but every time BC says anything, they're both on him as scum. Chandra was down with lynching either Yates/ Rufflig (I seriously don't think Yates was bussing SqG) so there's the mixed part.

I think BC is town. He hasn't been focused on the continuing effort to call him scum all game, he asks questions to certain people and then he drops it. I would like to see his reads though and get an idea of where he's at so far in the game. I also think it's town that no one has really been voting him, but no one is particularly saying anything in his favor either.

You don't know how much I wish I did have a NK this game

Indeed. If I possessed a nightkill, you can be assured that between last night and this night, I most certainly would have shot dead one of BulbyFenny, Joshy, Grinny, Vezzy, or Beasty. Alas, I do not.

I'm seeing others say its 3 on one team and 4 on the other team, but is 4 and 4 an option?

It is not.

What do you guys think about a third faction?

A serial killer is not only possible, but probable, however, its existence is not yet proven and thus, not worth worrying about at this time. If there is a serial killer, it is a 4-3-1-17 game; if there is not, it is a 4-3-18 game.

Encryptor and JailKeeper are strong roles?

Incredibly. This is especially true if the final Marvel Villain is also a strong power role. Last time I was in a jason game like this, I was a member of the smaller scumteam, and our powers were a Godfather (that was also a Ninja), Watcher, and Roleblocker (with free daychat), if this old lady's memory holds. Having daychat and a roleblock/doctor makes them already strong.

Do you see three nightkills? I sure don't.

Nightkills can and often will fail, deary. What is important is flavor behind kills. Each faction will always have the same kill flavor. The vig kill will not differ between day or night. A serial killer flavor will be kept consistent. A mafia team's kill flavor will always be the same. "Died of multiple wounds" will always be death from multiple sources. A serial killer in the game is quite possible if one kill source did not succeed. If another flavor (that is not "died of multiple wounds") appears night two, then we have confirmation even if there are the same or reduced numbers of nightkills. Thus, something to keep an eye on, but not something to worry about until after it has been confirmed.

Josh b I THINK 4v4vtown is unbalanced, probably 3v3vtown from what ive seen in jason games.

No, it is 4v3, chance of 4v3v1.

#modmeta.

So this where my head is saying is a good lynch pool for today {Rach, PereV, Vezo, XXXZ & Displaced}.

The problem with this lynch pool is that the only two names in there I see realistically flipping scum are Grinny and Vezzy. Zexxy is among my sweetest reads, now, and the other two remain outside my sourreads.

As notation: I do not believe I already mentioned it, but Nally by now has moved into my sweet-reads list, and Ragey has too. Zexxy has moved from my sweet-reads list up to my central sugar core.

Way to regurgitate the chainsaw defense argument there guy.

There are plenty of other players guilty of regurgitating arguments, you among them.

I'm feeling Displaced and Vezok as the two remaining MUVA scum.

I have no doubts you do. (I fully believe Vezzy to be sour, just not on the unflipped team.) Where is your focus on the other team, deary?

AuntJ- I am seriously getting a town vibe from your slot.

So is BulbyFenny from what I gather. Your manner of approaching me is nearly identical as well. Saying I am town, but trying to manipulate me in this manner. It will not work. I am one of the most competent players in this game. Though I am not infallible, I am not so easily shaken nor fooled. Who on my sweet-list is sour, and more importantly, why? Why are my sour-reads (aside from you) wrong? I have shown you where I am coming from. You have not reciprocated. You do not explain your reads aside from the mixed ones and the beasty read, and your description of why he is sweet is a description of what I would expect from a sour player: asking questions with no follow-through, not drawing attention to himself, and not having notable reads.

I still feel like Yates(TWIE), ZZZX, and UFN are on the "red team" but I'm getting some mixed feeling about Chandra/Umbrage.

Why did you assign the unflipped team the color red?

I F up as town. A lot of people Fup as town. It's what makes the game fun.

It seems you have learned the art of misdirection, since I noted Nally's point and this is an entire deflection of it.

I didn't really like the way KidA was playing either once I found out that he wasn't a newb, but I thought it could be justified if he was a certain PR. Either way, I still thought that a KidA lynch would have been the more informational way to go.

So you thought that Kiddy should be lynched, regardless his alignment?

Both sides of the Hydra seem to be looking for two scum teams.

Them having

not

done so is one of the main points I presented against them. It has yet to be remedied.

It's where I came to the conclusion that "red" team was hunting "black" rather than towns.

Odd that you make this statement when it is in fact the very reason I feel you are sour with BulbyFenny in the first place.

Also, how is it scummy in your mind for me to suggest certain players on certain teams, when others have done the same thing.

It is not the act of saying a player is on a certain team. It is how that act is executed. In your case, you are doing so to sweet-read or sourread specific individuals. My sourreads are formed individually, and merely enhanced by these speculations. Yours are made specifically relying on them, and do not possess any thought of a player being on the larger team as anything more than a mere after-thought.

Though I must admit a preference to see a member of the unflipped scumteam flip, it is more for informative purposes so we know what we are looking for and have dead scum on both sides. I am more than content with any dead scum. You and BulbyFenny are both hunting a specific scum, that being the surviving Marvel Villain.

I can't simultaneously NK both SqG and TheAd.

My point was not that you nightkilled both of them. My point was that a scumteam with you in it has incentive to kill either of them, thus, a team with you in it could be responsible for either death.

im finding it so hard to read you auntie, dunno why. I think i find some of your town reads weird.

There will be little need to read me this game, as I do not foresee myself living long. For me to not have made enemies of the scum would require me to have been entirely on the wrong basis.

However, that increases the importance of understanding my stances, which you have found weird. Name them and I will elucidate to the best of my ability.

i mean, its obvious that the dude who said "red team" with quotations just said a color for the hell of it.

If I felt that were the case, I would not have brought the point up. I did not feel he was saying "red team" as a color for the hell of it.

There is something off about Joshy. I cannot quite explain how, but for the entire game, he has felt as if he knows more than he should and has been playing differently than a town player would. There is a reason he is either my strongest or second-strongest sourread. (I feel him about equal to BulbyFenny.) Especially his interaction with BulbyFenny. Exploring this will have to wait until a later time, but I feel it must be done.

If you were to be a player who has notable self-esteem issues and is easily lost

I don't see MS has having low self-esteem and getting easily lost. I think he's a troll and a half and maybe an sk. What would be funny if Bulb was team scum and told MS sk to shoot Kid A. Yes, I think Bulb may very well be scum but the whole "he forced MS to do something" still seems silly wich prob makes no sense to anyone but me.

On to page 70.

-Bulba

I am ALWAYS going to be paranoid of this since you did it as scum.

@Umbrage-stop playing like a wannabe Fate plox

@Chandra- read on Bulb plox.

[BulbaFenix]

Sorry about that. Something weird happened while I was typing and the post in progress got posted. Here is the relevant completed post:

I really feel like Bulba is a mile and a half up the wrong tree this game :/

Though admittedly not a solid one, this is in fact a minor scumtell of Bulby.

What? My scumhunting has always been hit and miss. I tend to get a few right but miss the rest. I've also been monumentally off, like in Binding of Isaac. Granted, I've been getting better recently, but it always surprises me when people call me a great scumhunter. Heck, the reason why I feel so solid this game is because both heads of the hydra are agreeing, which is a very rare occurrence. And seeing how we called most of the scum in our first game together, I can only see that as a good sign.

I find it strange, though, that you claim such intimate knowledge of my meta, even though it is off. Have we played together, or did you just do a quick skim of some of my old games?

I thought that Kid A was the last member of the Marvel scum team, and I wanted to get rid of the extra NK. I thought it was best to do so early, so as to not disrupt scuhunting by resetting the vote count, and by taking hunting for 2 teams out of consideration.

I do not find this logic to be convincing. Though it holds some ground in theory, I do not see a town-you advocating this, given the consequences it can (and did) produce: a wasted shot, with no information gained from it.

It was probably not the best decision, but I don't think it was a wasted shot.

What do we get from a Vinny town-flip?

We get information based on who was calling her town and defending her and who was on her wagon.

I'll get the rest out soon.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

What do we get if Vinny flips last Marvel Villain?

1 less NK.

What do we get if Vinny flips serial killer?

Information about the setup. N2 will then tell us if 1 of the kills were blocked N1, or if this setup is composed in a similar way to Defense of Hyrule, in which case, we still eliminated 1 NK.

What do we get if Vinny flips the currently-unrevealed mafia faction?

We get information based on associations which would lead us to ZZZX-scum.

I plan on getting to it, but I'd like to deal with the present situation.

Define what you mean by 'present situation', and "dealing with present situation". And while you are at it, explain why the present situation dictates VCA to not be important to you.

By "present situation" I meant being behind and not able to post in real time. I want to get caught up in the game before doing any sort of ISO dive. By the way, that's what I meant. I have no intention of doing VCA, as I don't think it will give us much information atm. I was instead going to do a dual ISO dive of Ruffling and SG. I had started doing that at the beginning of the day when I came across the Kid A connection. I got so excited about it, that I stopped where I was and told MS to shoot. I was disappointed at being wrong, and I just haven't gotten back to doing it.

The entire playerlist's egos put together in a room the size of mine would be able to fit snugly. However much Nally is, I am admittedly worse. However, my play holds little arrogance, for my many years of experience has taught me that it is simply justified confidence.

Thus why I wish others to follow me.

That's nice. You're still wrong.

What's the average scum ratio?

The average scum:town ratio is 1:3, which would fit the idea of two 3-man scum teams.

UFN I'd vote for again

I wouldn't. They're town.

I am one of the most competent players in this game.

Who on my sweet-list is sour, and more importantly, why?

Viomi is scum, because of her bad logic = scum argument, which shows no intention to actually scumhunt and look at intent and motivation. Her reaction to the fake dayvig gambit was scummy, as it was essentially scum throwing a hissy fit for being caught for the wrong reasons.

ZZZX is scum due to his opportunistic voting patterns.

Umbrage may be scum. I'm not sure yet, although her refusal to scumhunt and blaming it on others is bothering me.

Why are my sour-reads (aside from you) wrong?

Josh is pretty obv. town. There's some genuine scumhunting from him, and you can see where he doesn't actually know what's going on, meaning there is no inside information. He's shown that he is out of the loop several times, so I don't see where people are coming from with the inside information angle. You can also see where he's trying to actually figure things out. What's more, the wagon on him didn't really emerge until he started putting some pressure on SG, Yates, and ZZZX. Want to guess some of the people who were pushing his wagon?

Vezok is town for meta reasons, plus he's pretty on track via scum (with the exception of Beast).

I'm seeing some actual scumhunting from PV, which I take as a good sign.

Both sides of the Hydra seem to be looking for two scum teams.

Them having

not

done so is one of the main points I presented against them. It has yet to be remedied.

Only the Kid A read was connected to the Marvel team. We think Viomi and ZZZX are on the other scum team. We have no clue who could be the last Marvel scum, and we're not putting a lot of effort into it atm.

There is something off about Joshy. I cannot quite explain how, but for the entire game, he has felt as if he knows more than he should and has been playing differently than a town player would.

Really? I've gotten the opposite. He's constantly shown that he's clueless about the inner workings of the game. In fact, those theories that he gets called out on are lifted from other players. He just thinks that they sound correct and integrate them into his scumhunting. You can see this with his multiball assumption d1, which he took from Yates, and his 4 person scum team assumption, which he took from you. How you can see this as evidence of him having more information, and not as him being utterly clueless, is beyond me. Heck, he didn't even know that scum are provided fake claims.

On to page 70.

-Bulba

I am ALWAYS going to be paranoid of this since you did it as scum.

Understandable, but it's a playstyle issue, as I do it as both alignments. It is for catchup purposes only, and I can give equal examples from both town and scum games. Heck, I also introduced the Hierarchy of Reads in Maniacal as well, which is now a common trait in my games.

On to page 78.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Alrighty so prettyyyy sure Rach is town especially with her recent contributions.

I'm going to unvote for now.

I'm going to
VOTE: Underacheivers

Cabds posting so far haven't felt like Cabd town. Same goes for Mac.

Ill explain later if needed

Mala, the Cabd/Mac hydra is town.

~Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

Alrighty so prettyyyy sure Rach is town especially with her recent contributions.

I'm going to unvote for now.

I'm going to
VOTE: Underacheivers

Cabds posting so far haven't felt like Cabd town. Same goes for Mac.

Ill explain later if needed

Mala, the Cabd/Mac hydra is town.

~Fenix

Explain your reasons.

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.... No...

~Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

And in order for Viomi to be scum you have to believe that she read the "fake kill" took the time to know it was a fake kill, post a panicked post, followed by indigination, followed by calming down and that she would do all of such as scum. No, rather, Viomi, made herself lynchbait. And yes, I will defend folks that I perceive are being buzzed for crap. I however am not calling you, MS, scum. I do anticipate scum among the vote and as such provided my thoughts and placed my vote.

I don't think Viomi knew it was fake. That was scum thinking they got killed for stupid reasons and throwing a hissy fit.

Really don't like Chandra's sudden activity. If I had to guess, SG told him he had to be more active in the QT.

Whatever happened to this?

Did anybody ever confront Umbrage on how she knew scum had day chat?

Don't even start that with me Nero. You're acting like I shouted you down about a Mala/SG connection, when I didn't. I simply asked why you thought they were scum together and then disagreed with you. Also, in the realm of "in case I'm wrong", Mala is not even in the same league as Kid A. Kid A was a good shot regardless, as he was providing nothing to the town. Mala, if town, is someone you want to keep around.

This thought process is also not indicative of a town alignment to me. It feels like a justification rather than an explanation for an action.

Nero asked how I could attack his Mala read and then proceed to have Kid A shot for similar reasons. My point was that the two situations were not the same, and that I did not shoot his reasoning down, but rather asked him about it.

I think it's time to develop a town block of awesome like we had in Fire Emblem.

You married scum, and gave birth to an infected seed. Do forgive me if I am suspicious of your efforts to townbloc when referencing that game.

I'm going to keep this short so as to not have this devolve into a paragraph of rage. Nacho and I were instrumental in creating the town block that ended up winning that game via PoE. In fact, one of the rules we set forth from the beginning was that neither of us would include our family in the block. That block remained unlynchable for the rest of the game and is what kept the town from completely eating itself.

It was probably not the best decision, but I don't think it was a wasted shot.

Oh? Then what did we learn from it other than that Kiddy was not the last Marvel scum?

We got rid of a player that would have been a liability as the game went on. Ergo, not a wasted shot. What is the scum motivation for having the vig shoot lynch bait?

What do we get from a Vinny town-flip?

We get information based on who was calling her town and defending her and who was on her wagon.

This information seems near-useless to a town player and yet incredibly beneficial for a scum player.

I don't see how the information is useless to town and more beneficial to scum. Viomi flipping town would give us her wagon to analyze, since there would likely be scum on the wagon. Scum would also likely be among those that were strong defending her, essentially relying on a Viomi town flip to gain towncred. So we gain 2 possible pools of suspects: Scum on the wagon and Scum WKing.

What do we get if Vinny flips last Marvel Villain?

1 less NK.

Do not be a smartass, deary. You know that I meant what information would be gained. You specifically said that a Vinny lynch would generate great associatives. When I questioned you on what they are, you give this. For someone claiming it would gain information, you seem to be awfully hesitant to say what that information would be.

The most productive answer you gave was for the serial killer question...when the presence of a serial killer is not even confirmed, and was asked more as a hypothetical. Thus, your best answer was for the least-relevant and least-probable scenario.

I've been very straight forward about what information would be gained. If Viomi is the last Marvel scum, then we've eliminated a NK and prolonged the amount of time it takes to get to Lylo, which is a clear town advantage (one which you are advocating against). If she's an SK, then we've learned a fair bit about the setup. But neither of those were the most productive answer. That would be the one that you conveniently ignore: That if Viomi flips other scum, her flip points to ZZZX as her partner. You also ignored my reasoning for Viomi being scum (And I'd also like to add 1 more reason: That she tried to split our hydra and buddy up to and appeal to me in order to get Fenix off of her.), instead focusing on something completely trivial (but we'll get to that). Why do you seek to strawman my arguments and present them as something other than what they are?

I got so excited about it, that I stopped where I was and told MS to shoot.

This still does not answer the question of why you were so eager to shoot immediately. I realize that you have given reasons, but I simply cannot understand your logic for the discovering exciting you that much and you being so enthusiastic about it if you are town. When I am sour and I discover that type of connection, I will act as you did and rush into it. As a sweet player, I do not possess nearly the same amount of adrenaline.

I don't see how only scum could get excited about the game. I thought I had found the last Marvel scum and thought that I could eliminate the NK and then focus a whole day on finding the other team. Was I misguided? Possibly. Was it scum motivation to have MS shoot to eliminate a NK? I don't see how it was, unless you are suggesting that I'd purposely screw my team over by having it take longer to get to Lylo, and that I would purposely shoot someone that I could try to lynch for towncred if I thought he was scum.

Who on my sweet-list is sour, and more importantly, why?

Why are my sour-reads (aside from you) wrong?

[Your answer cut] I was not asking you, deary. That question was for Joshy.

I understand that you asked them of Josh, but those questions weren't player specific. I thought it would be best, given the circumstances, if I answered them as well. Besides, I don't see how my saying which reads I disagree with you on will keep Josh from answering the same questions. And if for some reason he copies my answers, then I will help you lynch him. Now why did you complain about me answering the questions and not actually address my answers?

We think Viomi and ZZZX are on the other scum team.

Odd that both yourself and Joshy have made this claim. I am finding it a far more likely hypothesis that you are scum together and legitimately scumreading Vinny and Zexxy, but think them to be the marvel villain and a serial killer.

This doesn't make any sense. How could an associative tell mean that I think one is Marvel and the other is SK?

I think you are a very good player and know how to play this game. If anyone objects to this please tell me.

Your read on ZZZX is just pure bullshit. He is in such a place that people consider him to be townie enough, but not everyone. You defend him and set him up for a mislynch in case you die. Or you could be scum together, but I somehow doubt that.

You moved beastcharizard in your sure scum slot because you realized he is an easy lynch and you will have reason for voting him when the time comes. Your progression onto this read is not natural. It is not how a townie thinks.

And of course the irresistible vezok scum read. I don't think I've played a game where scum didn't push for me hoping for an easy lynch.

Your reasoning here seems to be with the assumption that I am scum, rather than having formed the conclusion I am scum. Can I not be town who simply understands how to correctly read Zexxy? Can I not have moved beasty into my sourreads pile (note he is not in my 'sure scum' pile) because I think him to be scum? (Particularly given multiscum, even if I were to be scum, this is true--can I not scumhunt as scum?) Is it not possible for me to have an imperfect read on you?

You seem to be saying I am a skilled player, yet your very reasoning for saying I would be scum relies on me playing scum like a baby would, when I am quite elderly. It is again not the type of play I would anticipate coming from a sweet-vezok.

This is not how you address a scum read, btw. I would encourage everyone to reread Vezok's post. He's right on the money here.

I've called the following town and still believe that;

Ruffling

, Nero, Chandra, JKlash

I've called the following scum and still believe that; Josh, Umbrage, Displaced,

TheAdmiral

I will admit my read on Mozimas is getting wonky. I like a lot of what is being said there, I still don't like the early play. I guess call it a nullish to scum read now. I have a generally positive vibe towards Aunt Jemina though she feels hard to read. Basically I feel like she could fake me out easily. I sort of generically am okay with the pushes on ZZZX, beast, and maybe even Unfriendly (though that last one I would be hard pressed to describe the case, but the sort of recriminatory lashing out response feels dirty to me) Most of the rest of the crowd I don't think I have a very good feel for, a lot just feel like they...well, exist..

And your point is?

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

What has Mala done that's been super townie or is this based on future greatness?

Mostly based on future greatness. I got the impression that she was town d1, but I can't really think of an example of what made me think so.

Also why did you not out your reasoning before Kid A was shot?

I sorta did. It was all quotes, but it should have been obvious about what I was getting at.

Why? I don't see MS as a prime NK target, do you?

if MS is a day SK then I don't suspect scum will leave him around unless they are sitting there and trying to get on his good side so they don't get shot.

If there is a day SK in this game I will give Tony his suit back.

We have no clue who could be the last Marvel scum, and

we're not putting a lot of effort into it atm.

Well why?

Because I've been busy catching up and just doing general scumhunting. Focusing on finding the last Marvel scum would require that dual ISO I was talking about, and I don't have the time to do it atm.

@Bulb-read on Vezok?

Town.

I don't think Viomi knew it was fake. That was scum thinking they got killed for stupid reasons and throwing a hissy fit.

if you are town, you and your partner are jumping to a perceptual conclusion without any basis. If you are scum you are simply doing what you can to get town lynched and sticking with a tunnel.
So, bulba, I do know that you are a bit better than that. I expect more from you then to stick with such short sighted perceptions. I have no experience I can recall with Fennix. So, tell me in your history of game play, do scum generally throw hissy fits like that? Now, add in a person who dies early by lynch or night kill a lot... they sign in and see that they appear to be soon day killed... Now tell me what is more psychologically likely? Please feel free to provide evidence in completed games.

(FYI, I apologize in advance but for my own ease and for wall avoidance I will be taking pieces of your stuff a piece at time. At least it won't be a wall.)

Knife, it's not just that her reaction was scummy (it was), but it was that she wasn't scumhunting. Then when she started getting a lot of pressure, she tried splitting this hydra by appealing to me specifically with her "Poor Bulba" crap. She was hoping that I'd get Fenix off of her. That's a scummy move, and I can't see town doing that.

Did anybody ever confront Umbrage on how she knew scum had day chat?

It take it is the SG told Beast in QT comment that you are making that conclusion. This made me do an ISO to find what you were referencing.

Umbrage made a comment about scum having day talk before we found out that scum had day talk. I'm just curious if anyone commented on it at the time, because that should raise some serious questions.

one game is one game, you cannot duplicate past events. The block strategy can be useful and can be manipulated. However, that game is that game and not relevant to this game. And you certainly are not beyond taking what worked elsewhere and bringing it here to look town.

I understand, but I feel I have a firm enough grasp this game to form a solid town core. UN forms the center of it.

We got rid of a player that would have been a liability as the game went on. Ergo, not a wasted shot. What is the scum motivation for having the vig shoot lynch bait?

whoopee, that is not an argument for town or scum. But the key phrase there is "got rid of player." Scum likes elimination, period.

You still haven't said what the scum motivation is for forcing the vig to shoot a player that could easily be lynched.

I don't see how only scum could get excited about the game. I thought I had found the last Marvel scum and thought that I could eliminate the NK and then focus a whole day on finding the other team. Was I misguided? Possibly. Was it scum motivation to have MS shoot to eliminate a NK? I don't see how it was, unless you are suggesting that I'd purposely screw my team over by having it take longer to get to Lylo, and that I would purposely shoot someone that I could try to lynch for towncred if I thought he was scum.

fails to address AJ's point imo.

What did I fail to address? AJ was insinuating that town never get excited about finding scum. I disagreed with her, and then asked what the possible scum motivation would be for that move.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

I don't think Viomi knew it was fake. That was scum thinking they got killed for stupid reasons and throwing a hissy fit.

if you are town, you and your partner are jumping to a perceptual conclusion without any basis. If you are scum you are simply doing what you can to get town lynched and sticking with a tunnel.
So, bulba, I do know that you are a bit better than that. I expect more from you then to stick with such short sighted perceptions. I have no experience I can recall with Fennix. So, tell me in your history of game play, do scum generally throw hissy fits like that? Now, add in a person who dies early by lynch or night kill a lot... they sign in and see that they appear to be soon day killed... Now tell me what is more psychologically likely? Please feel free to provide evidence in completed games.

(FYI, I apologize in advance but for my own ease and for wall avoidance I will be taking pieces of your stuff a piece at time. At least it won't be a wall.)

TBH, I've seen it. MS pulled the SAME gambit when he entered the game with Josh_B, and Viomi even pointed it OUT as a gambit when you look at her ISO (quote #39). When she found out that MS did the SAME thing in the thread, from ISO'd post (#44, 45, 46 (that's the biggest one that sticks out because she KNEW he pulled the same stunt against JB coming in), 49, 50, 51, 52, 53 and 54) you can find her reaction (if ya hadn't looked). To ME, there's something seriously off base with Viomi.

She insults anyone who votes/objects to anything she says. Me, Sonic, and Vezo are just starters on that list. She tried splitting me and my hydra partner, which is super scummy to do imo. You don't try to appeal to emotion my partner. Told ZZZX that she was going to post a case up on him, NEVER followed thru with it and is voting him now on a... OMGUS?! I'd like to know more about that, Viomi, if you're willing to actually come in here and talk about what made you vote for ZZZX after saying he was a town read of yours on day one. Cause a lot of your "logic" doesn't add up...

~Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

Bulba, make time tomorrow and we're gonna inthread mason and effort, mmkay?

Kay.

Umbrage made a comment about scum having day talk before we found out that scum had day talk. I'm just curious if anyone commented on it at the time, because that should raise some serious questions.

that is odd, was it the comment I referenced as the "SG musta said something in QT" is the only thing I saw.

I was wrong about that. Umbrage made the comment at the beginning of d2.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Chandra, vote Viomi.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

wait what scum have daytalk?

Marvel scum had it. We lynched the encryptor d1.

[BulbaFenix]

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Your trying to paint the wagon on you as sudden is quite insincere, seeing as it's been around for awhile.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

I don't think Viomi knew it was fake. That was scum thinking they got killed for stupid reasons and throwing a hissy fit.

if you are town, you and your partner are jumping to a perceptual conclusion without any basis. If you are scum you are simply doing what you can to get town lynched and sticking with a tunnel.
So, bulba, I do know that you are a bit better than that. I expect more from you then to stick with such short sighted perceptions. I have no experience I can recall with Fennix. So, tell me in your history of game play, do scum generally throw hissy fits like that? Now, add in a person who dies early by lynch or night kill a lot... they sign in and see that they appear to be soon day killed... Now tell me what is more psychologically likely? Please feel free to provide evidence in completed games.

(FYI, I apologize in advance but for my own ease and for wall avoidance I will be taking pieces of your stuff a piece at time. At least it won't be a wall.)

TBH, I've seen it. MS pulled the SAME gambit when he entered the game with Josh_B, and Viomi even pointed it OUT as a gambit when you look at her ISO (quote #39). When she found out that MS did the SAME thing in the thread, from ISO'd post (#44, 45, 46 (that's the biggest one that sticks out because she KNEW he pulled the same stunt against JB coming in), 49, 50, 51, 52, 53 and 54) you can find her reaction (if ya hadn't looked). To ME, there's something seriously off base with Viomi.

She insults anyone who votes/objects to anything she says. Me, Sonic, and Vezo are just starters on that list. She tried splitting me and my hydra partner, which is super scummy to do imo. You don't try to appeal to emotion my partner. Told ZZZX that she was going to post a case up on him, NEVER followed thru with it and is voting him now on a... OMGUS?! I'd like to know more about that, Viomi, if you're willing to actually come in here and talk about what made you vote for ZZZX after saying he was a town read of yours on day one. Cause a lot of your "logic" doesn't add up...

~Fenix

Fenix is still dumb.
Why would scum!Viomi point out a gambit right before using it?

How's about... You tell me. Why would you knowingly, and gladly, point out a gambit day 1, then flip out over the same gambit day 2 when pulled on you?

OK, can someone give me a semi-decent reason to switch to the Viomi wagon?

still waiting on this

haven't seen a pro-Viomi lynch argument that doesn't rely on meta, WIFOM, or Sonic and ZZZX being useless trolls

See post 2041, vote viomi 2014.

~Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

See post 2041, vote viomi 2014.

~Fenix

I already said that Sonic's case is bullshit, basing a case on reactions to a fake dayvig is really fucking stupid to begin with, and Sonic being Sonic doesn't help matters.

It's not JUST about the "fake dayvig" in that case. Read it again.

~Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

Can I look into the mind of Viomi and see the motivation of everything she does? Nope.

BUT NEITHER CAN YOU

You can make a guess, which you have done. But that doesn't make it right. That doesn't make any conclusion based on it hold water.

This is the worst type of discredit. This is taking a case and saying that it's wrong because "You can't prove 100% that she is scum!". Newsflash: The only people who know someone else's alignment with that type of certainty is scum. Everyone else is doing the best they can with the information provided.

Here we have an example of her mindset after she thinks she is going to die. Is she scrambling to provide reads? Nope. The game is pointless, so why would she.

Explain to me how this is a town mindset.

You're missing the point. Why are *you* so convinced that *your* reads don't suck but everyone else's do.

holy shit wow

ok I'm officially revoking my Chandra townread

this is the stupidest thing I've read all day

Why is this stupid? It makes perfect sense to me.

Lynch viomi please

Don't want it to be derailed like what almost happened for rufflig wagon

I answered your questions, shithead. A good townie would have unvoted me by now. Fuck off.

Except that he's not voting you for not answering his questions. That's a strawman.

I also looked at #2189, and I don't see anything that is even comparable to Viomi's reaction in this game. In the first instance, she's not even raging. In the second, she's at least trying to move the game forward. She didn't do that here. In fact, she refused to even provide reads and wanted to replace out if she was dying, not if the vig was fake. That seems a little backwards to me, as town would be looking at their flip as a kind of vindication, a final "screw you!". It makes sense from scum frustrated that they were caught for dumb reasons and not wanting to be associated with the game anymore. I'd imagine she'd want to replace out after finding out the shot was a fake, not when she thought she was dead.

Why hasn't Viomi been lynched yet?

Though finishing up team A is good too since that means only one NK instead of 2.

I know, right. But according to Aunt Jemina, that clearly makes you scum for wanting to give town more of an advantage.

I'm calling Chandra/ZZZX/vezok scumteam right now

That's a horrible team callout. Try again.

OK, can someone give me a semi-decent reason to switch to the Viomi wagon?

still waiting on this

haven't seen a pro-Viomi lynch argument that doesn't rely on meta, WIFOM, or Sonic and ZZZX being useless trolls

Okay, how about the fact that she's not scumhunting, that she spent d1 trying to lynch people based on "bad case = scum", that she refused to give her reads when she thought she was going to die, that she acted in a complete opposite manner than town when she wanted to replace out when she thought she was going to die, but not when she found out that the shot was fake, even though she was raging about the manner of the shot the whole time, and finally, she tried to buddy up to this head of the hydra, effectively seeking to split the hydra, in an effort to try to get me to get Fenix off of her.

I am increasingly growing into the mindset that beasty is in fact sour, but is alone (perhaps a serial killer), and that I should pursue a BulbyFenny/Joshy/Grinny/Kitty team with vezzy as the other lone scum.

I'm really starting to wonder if you can really be town with reads this bad.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Okay, how about the fact that she's not scumhunting, that she spent d1 trying to lynch people based on "bad case = scum"

so she's not scumhunting except for when she was

If you believe that bad case = scum is scumhunting, then I have some ocean front property in Arizona to sell you.

that she acted in a complete opposite manner than town when she wanted to replace out when she thought she was going to die, but not when she found out that the shot was fake, even though she was raging about the manner of the shot the whole time

again, dependent upon the fake daykill and her (justified) rage afterward

making town frustrated and then calling them scum for being frustrated is not scumhunting

If she was so frustrated, why did she make a big deal about replacing out when she thought she was dead and not afterward, when she knew it was fake and she'd still have to deal with the person she raged at? Wouldn't she still be the same amount of frustrated then as when she thought she was dead? What changed?

and finally, she tried to buddy up to this head of the hydra, effectively seeking to split the hydra, in an effort to try to get me to get Fenix off of her.

not a scumtell

Please explain to me how buddying up to one part of the hydra to pit the heads of the hydra against each other and get a vote off of you is not scummy.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Town

UnfriendlyNeighbors
Metal Sonic
Chandra Nalaar
Nero Cain
Vezokpiraka
Josh_B
PeregrineV
Pidgey
Beastcharizard

Null/Town

RachMarie
Malakittens
Umbrage
Sharpest-knife-on-tree
Mozamis

Null

Displaced

Null/Scum

ZZZX
TheWayItEnds
Aunt Jemina

Scum

Viomi

Fenix and I have been agreeing with our reads. I haven't talked about the exact severity of the reads, as your asking for the list put them in perspective. The null reads are the ones very much in flux. AJ has fell toward the scum end, as well as TWIE, since some of those attacks I'm having trouble seeing from a town perspective (Yates's opportunistic vote on you d1 is still in the back of my mind as well.). We're actually starting to reevaluate our ZZZX read, as I've actually liked a lot of his recent posts. Displaced is up in the air at this point. Do you have any questions about my reads?

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Pidgey, thoughts on Viomi?

~Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

Ahhh. There we go. Feels good to be back.

~Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

Metal Sonic: How was my reaction scummy, exactly? Instead of just saying it was, give me logic.
BulbaFenix: Do you have anything on me or are you going to continue whatever... That is?
Displaced: Does your vote on me have anything besides bullshit.. Like, at all?
PereV: You're town, get your vote off me and do something helpful please.
vezok: You're either the stupidest player to date or you're scum. I'm not going to ask you to do anything because I don't think it'll get through your thick skull.
ZZZK: I don't even know what to say about you. Honestly.

If you actually HAVE a case on me, give it to me. If you don't, take your vote off because you're being insanely anti-town. Vote someone actually scummy, not someone mad at the game, kthx.

This post makes me want to hang you again~

Then why not vote her?!

~Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

Why do they suck so bad?

Is it because you're really scum?

Actually what you meant to say is that the case that you keep presenting as a valid one is the worst type of case.
He literally took things that happened and said "this is my scum theory for viomi based on this thing that backs up the scum read i already had on her."
Then, he goes on to say if you cant completely explain her specific thought process she must be scum. I cant explain her thoughts because I didnt have them. But you cant build a case based on her THOUGHT PROCESS WHICH YOU JUST FUCKING MADE UP. AND THEN SAY WELL YOU CANT PROVE THAT THE WAY I PRESENTED IT ISNT RIGHT SO MY CASE IS STILL VALID.

This statement is false. MS didn't start off with a scum read and then inserted that belief into Viomi's posts. He performed a reaction test on a slot he wasn't sure on and found the player to act in a scummy manner, which he outlined. It's a solid case, and you going out of your way to discredit it like you have is one of the reasons why I think you are scum.

Here we have an example of her mindset after she thinks she is going to die. Is she scrambling to provide reads? Nope. The game is pointless, so why would she.

Explain to me how this is a town mindset.

It doesn't have to be a town mindset. I'm pointing out that its her mindset, and it shouldn't be surprising to anyone because she's showcased it before.

If you are defending her actions as not being from scum, then you are saying they are not coming from a scum mindset. Ergo, they're coming from a town mindset. Now explain how that is a town mindset.

You're missing the point. Why are *you* so convinced that *your* reads don't suck but everyone else's do.

holy shit wow

ok I'm officially revoking my Chandra townread

this is the stupidest thing I've read all day

Why is this stupid? It makes perfect sense to me.

I don't hear you explaining.

If she was so frustrated, why did she make a big deal about replacing out when she thought she was dead and not afterward, when she knew it was fake and she'd still have to deal with the person she raged at? Wouldn't she still be the same amount of frustrated then as when she thought she was dead? What changed?

-Bulba

You really cant think of anything thats changed?

Really?

Whats changed is that MS no longer has a shot, guaranteed for the rest of the day.

He literally cant threaten to kill her for no fucking reason for the rest of the day.

Hes also claiming that hes out of shots.

So theres a chance that he cant kill her for no fucking reason for the rest of the game.

Thats whats changed.

That seems fairly obvious.

Except I don't see how him not having another shot is relevant. If her being frustrated at MS was the reason for her wanting to replace out, the fact that she's not dead does nothing to the source of that frustration. MS is still here and is now pushing her for her reaction. The only difference is that she knows she is no longer dead. And if her dying is the reason to request replacement, then that brings up an entirely different issue. Let's not even get into the fact that such an action would be poor sportsmanship and would be considered acting against your wincon. The question is why would a town player make such a big deal about dying, threatening to replace out, and refusing to give reads. It doesn't make sense. Yes she would be upset, but not at the level as to screw her team. Heck, I went through something similar in NY 171, when I was lynched over someone who had essentially claimed scum, and even though I was upset and frustrated, I spent every last moment trying to hammer in the fact that the other person was still scum and that town were a bunch of idiots for not listening to me. My death brought vindication. Why didn't we see that from Viomi then if she is town? Instead we got her pitching a hissy fit and doing nothing to help town or provide herself vindication. In fact, it looked more like scum complaining about being eliminated for the wrong reasons more than anything else. And again, her suddenly calming down and still not being upset when she found out she wasn't the target doesn't make any sense. If anything, it proves that her reaction was even more surface and not coming from a town mindset.

Bulba- Do you have a reason for listing Aunt J as scum other than you thinking her reads are wrong? That's not a very good reason.

Yes. I actually thought she was town with bad reads at first. But a lot of her actions are not making sense coming from a town mindset. You can get that especially by looking at her response to Vezok, where she's not just responding to him as if he was town, but subconsciously acting as if he really is, showing evidence of actually knowing his alignment. There's a subtle disconnect between what she's saying and how she's saying it, and I find that as more likely to come from scum than town.

Bulb

Why do you see Beast as town? It is like the opposite reading from me so I want to know why.

Fenix and I have both played with Beast before. This is his town game.

Also since SG was so hot to lynch Yates, (Way's pred), do you think he is on Team B? Or do you think she was really bussing her team mate that hard? My experience with scum SG is she does not hard bus.

I don't think TWIE is Marvel scum.

1. Well you're using her bad cases on people with bad cases as an example of why she's scum, so how is what you're doing any different? Being bad at scumhunting doesn't mean scum.

I'm not saying she's scum for being bad at scumhunting. I'm saying that she's scum for not scumhunting.

2. I've lost it and said I'm replacing out, then changed my mind. She's overly emotional, as anyone would be when dealing with Sonic's shit. Still not scummy.

It's not that she requested replacement and then changed her mind. It's that she only changed her mind after finding out she wasn't dead. It's evidence of a scum mindset.

On to page 91.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

uggh you are right I am getting him confused with someone else bleah.

Will track that down.

I need to ask NS how to do the find thingy again I can't seem to make it work on this computer atm. So I can find who I meant.

How did TWIE posting an ISO that proves the exact opposite of what he's saying convince you to change your mind?

I have some things to do today. I spent most of my time updating a different game. But I've been thinking about this game while I was gone. I would like to see the flip on ZZZX, I still think he's scum, but his own wagon evaluation gives me a bit of pause. I would like to see an Umbrage lynch soon, and a follow up Chandra lynch I'm unsure about, but if scum umbrage, than I'm inclined to believe scum chandra and if not scum umbrage, then possibly scum BC. However, I do not think any of these players are on the MUVA team. And as much as I want to think it is impossible for one person (Squirrel Girl) to blatantly give away their whole team, I feel like her and Ruff being on the same scum team makes it entirely possible that she did. I think that displaced's input has been more helpful after our correspondences to each other and I am feel like his FoS's since that time have been helpful and legitimate, Yet I just can't get past the early SqG statment that Pidgey's vote on displaced was scum hunting right out of the gate. As much as I want to see proof of a second team this DP, I know that there are many more DP's to come. I'm starting to feel like all of the second team possibilities that have been going around (especially because I've been perpetuating most of them) is too much WIFOM, that is going to end up with me on a bad wagon dead line lynch over the possibility for a complete annihilation of MUVA which is in our grasp but we are ignoring.

VOTE: Displaced

^town posting

Also, why does Umbrage-scum = Chandra-scum?

Joshy's 2274 also rubbed me the wrong way.

Why?

I mean no where did I say that Bulb/Mala were linked although its not exactly impossible and Bulb waving away my suspicion on Mala could be the link but that requires black scum be 4

How is asking you about your read waving away suspicion?

I'm down with a displaced, Chandra, vezok, Metal Sonic, or ZZZK lynch today.

I'm pretty sure most of these are town, but I think you know that already.

The absence was killer. If I hadn't found the MS twitter I would have gone mad.

QFT. Fenix sent me a message on Skype every day the site was down. He was literally counting the days.

There's little time left, and I'm currently bedridden (and I haven't heard from mac today at all), so I'm gonna say just go ahead and wagon us if you guys think it'll cause read resets tomorrow from anyone town.

We're nothing special so it's not a huge loss.

I'm lurking because I'm lazy as fuck/dealing with some IRL shit right now. And also never getting lynched this game but hey~

It's actually not one. There's an interesting set of conditions, see if you can piece it together.

You sure because from my view point there certainly is~

There's no contradiction. They're not getting lynched.

BulbaFenix: Do you have anything on me or are you going to continue whatever... That is?

Okay, how about the fact that she's not scumhunting, that she spent d1 trying to lynch people based on "bad case = scum", that she refused to give her reads when she thought she was going to die, that she acted in a complete opposite manner than town when she wanted to replace out when she thought she was going to die, but not when she found out that the shot was fake, even though she was raging about the manner of the shot the whole time, and finally, she tried to buddy up to this head of the hydra, effectively seeking to split the hydra, in an effort to try to get me to get Fenix off of her.

I think it's funny how you are trying to make it out like we don't have a case, when all we've been doing is talking about why you are scum.

Every time I do that everyone starts yelling at me :/

And that makes you unvote scum? Because people are yelling at you? Seriously Chandra, do I have to hold your hand through every scum lynch? Now quit whining and get your butt back on the Viomi wagon!

Besides, vezok is kinda obvscum, and beast is still worse

You're wrong on both accounts. In fact, Vezok is pretty strongly town.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Why do they suck so bad?

Is it because you're really scum?

I don't hear you explaining.

Why would I answer a rhetorical question whose only purpose was to discredit?

I'm not saying that MS entered the game with a scum read on Viomi. He did his shitty reaction test, and then he decided she was scum based on his shitty reaction test. And then he applied that mindset onto her posts. He's very obviously tunneling the fuck onto Viomi because he thinks shes scum and I think hes blinded by his tunnel. You ignored the more important part of this though in which MS argues that if you can't explain the thoughts behind every action that Viomi makes than he must be right that shes scum. That premise is false, and building a case on it was shitty.

Also, no his case was not solid, and I didn't go out of my way to discredit it. I was quite happy saying that I thught the case was shit and moving on until MS had a mini freakout because no one is allowed to case his case bad. And then SKOT asked me to point out why his case was stupid, and then your hydra keeps poiting to it like its the pinnacle of scumhunting when its just a bunch of shit. Then I had to go discredit it, because apparently everyone in the game lost their ability to read and think critically.

MS's reaction test was valid, and so was its result. It has also been explained multiple times why Viomi's reaction was scummy, a point which you continuously dodge (And I'm not talking about how "crappy" the case is, I'm talking about looking at Viomi's motivations for making the posts she did.). And it makes complete sense that given Viomi's reaction that MS would want to pursue that. The fact of the matter is that you are not willing to engage the case point by point, but rather to dismiss it as a whole, which I don't find to be a very town reaction.

Actually no I'm not saying that it's coming from a town mindset. I'm pointing out that I think the action is null because it's not a new reaction to the reaction test, its a consistant reaction throughout the game. So pointing to it as part of a scum case when the action is null at best is dumb.

But even then, you should look at the way she reacted and see evidence of her alignment. In what way would she freak out as town? In what way would she freak out as scum? What does her reaction to MS's gambit look like and why? These are at the very center of the Viomi case, and it is a point that you are consistently dodging.

You're missing the point. Why are *you* so convinced that *your* reads don't suck but everyone else's do.

holy shit wow

ok I'm officially revoking my Chandra townread

this is the stupidest thing I've read all day

Why is this stupid? It makes perfect sense to me.

I don't hear you explaining.

I really have to explain to you why I would believe in my read more than someone elses? How is that a real question?

Why am I more likely to believe reads that I've formed based on things that I personally have noticed in the game moreso than a read someone else has?

Fuck thats a tough question.
Can I use a lifeline?

That's not the question and you know it.

Except I don't see how him not having another shot is relevant. If her being frustrated at MS was the reason for her wanting to replace out, the fact that she's not dead does nothing to the source of that frustration. MS is still here and is now pushing her for her reaction. The only difference is that she knows she is no longer dead. And if her dying is the reason to request replacement, then that brings up an entirely different issue. Let's not even get into the fact that such an action would be poor sportsmanship and would be considered acting against your wincon. The question is why would a town player make such a big deal about dying, threatening to replace out, and refusing to give reads. It doesn't make sense. Yes she would be upset, but not at the level as to screw her team. Heck, I went through something similar in NY 171, when I was lynched over someone who had essentially claimed scum, and even though I was upset and frustrated, I spent every last moment trying to hammer in the fact that the other person was still scum and that town were a bunch of idiots for not listening to me. My death brought vindication. Why didn't we see that from Viomi then if she is town? Instead we got her pitching a hissy fit and doing nothing to help town or provide herself vindication. In fact, it looked more like scum complaining about being eliminated for the wrong reasons more than anything else. And again, her suddenly calming down and still not being upset when she found out she wasn't the target doesn't make any sense. If anything, it proves that her reaction was even more surface and not coming from a town mindset.

OOOH. Ok so now I see why you think that MS case didn't suck shit. Because this paragraph is just you saying "but thats not what I would do so that makes her scum."

Again, you are avoiding the main point and just discrediting what is being said. My point is that if Viomi was town and threatening to replace out due to her frustration at MS, then her withdrawing her replace out when she did doesn't make sense. The reason for her replace out is still there. I would expect her to continue raging for a bit longer after the Kid A kill. At the very least, I'd expect her to at least throw out some reads and try to help town if she was town and thought she was dying. As scum it makes a bit more sense, as her reaction is more in line with how scum react when they feel they have been caught for the wrong reason. It would make sense that she'd want to replace out after thinking she had been killed, and that when finding out this wasn't the case, that'd she'd recant her request. You are purposely not looking at the mindset behind the actions, and the extremity at which you are taking this avoidance makes me think that it is purposeful.

Just because I'm curious. Do you believe that I'm on the same team as Viomi? Or rather, do you think the only reason I'm defending her is because we're buddies?

I'm actually not sure which makes more sense: a chainsaw defense or WKing. I would think that WKing would make the most sense, as a chainsaw defense would be risky, but that would question my belief that Viomi is non-Marvel scum. Although, that belief is not nearly as strong as it once was given the change in my ZZZX read.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

im online too. are you caught up?


please vote viomi

the large amount of resistance to her wagon gives me a good idea that she is one of the most powerful scum PRs (and got pretty pissed off when i fake shot her cause she didnt get to use it yet!) and her team is desperately trying to defend her to stop her lynch. which is why we need to lynch her. if scum, would give us very pretty damn good idea who's on her team with the shitton of defense going on. if town, would invalidate my reads and may have to look who genuinely believed she was town or who was defending her for town cred (note: highly unlikely because multiball)

It's bad when MS is the only one posting stuff that actually makes sense.

Yet, he's being disregarded, because his case is "shit". I want Viomi strung up so bad it's not even funny.

~Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

If you are defending her actions as not being from scum, then you are saying they are not coming from a scum mindset. Ergo, they're coming from a town mindset. Now explain how that is a town mindset.

This black-and-white thinking is one reason that I am of the opinion BulbyFenny is sour, for it completely ignores that far more likely third scenario in that it came from a mindset that is not tied to alignment, town OR scum. There are ways players will react that are null, as they would do so as either alignment.

I gave various reasons why I believed that Viomi's actions were motivated by a scum role PM. TWIE disagreed with me, but has tried not to be nailed down to saying that he thinks Viomi is town. I find that type of hedginess to not be associated with town.

Furthermore, this post has a very strong hint of "Guilty until proven innocent", when a town player should be working the other way around, as there are more town in a game than there are scum, thus, more innocents than guilties.

I have, on multiple occasions, condemned the "Innocent until proven Guilty" mindset in Mafia games. That shows a player not wanting to get on anyone's bad side, and is far less likely to lead to a scum lynch, as scum would want to blend in and will try to use that argument to fend off a lynch ("Well you can't

prove

it 100%!" Oh hey, TWIE again...). I normally take an everybody is null approach myself, but I don't dismiss the "Guilty until proven innocent approach", and in fact encourage it between the two polar opposites.

I am quite aware that Bulby has shown both of these tendencies as a sweet player, but why I feel it is condemning him is that he has previously acknowledged these traits as weaknesses in his play that he has aimed to eliminate.

What traits are we talking about here?

Though it is not the strongest, 2332 is the most recent example, where she simply puts together quotes and does no real push behind why this would be important.

Anybody who was actually reading the thread should know what she's getting to in that post. This looks more like you finding reasons to fabricate a Mala scumread more than you actually coming to one naturally.

But even then, you should look at the way she reacted and see evidence of her alignment. In what way would she freak out as town? In what way would she freak out as scum? What does her reaction to MS's gambit look like and why? These are at the very center of the Viomi case, and it is a point that you are consistently dodging.

Okay but I can't look into alterante universes and see Viomi's reactions given different role PMs. What I can do, and did, is read this game for reasons that I think that she would react the way she did and then decide whether I think that is a town or a scum reaction. I read the game, I decided I could very easily believe it was a town reaction, I explained why I think that. I'm not dodging anything.

But didn't you just get done saying that you weren't saying that it was a town reaction? What changed? How is that reaction town?

That's not the question and you know it.

...? Actually I'm pretty sure that was the question. Why am I more willing to believe my reads dont suck than other peoples reads? Because they're mine. Because I generated them based on things I saw in thread. Because I have full knowledge of what source of the read is. Because there's literally no chance of an ulterior motive.
If theres another question thats not the one we've been quoting....?

But you had just got done saying that being town doesn't mean that your reads don't suck, and then when Chandra points out that as town you'd have to give the same consideration, you ridicule that notion, the very notion that you just finished laying the ground work for. So again, why was that a bad point?

And again I'm going to tell you that I think that Viomi threatening to replace out and then withdrawing it when she did makes perfect sense. If metal sonic no longer has a shot, then she no longer has to worry about him arbitrarily "ruining the game".

What does MS not having a shot have to do with anything? If she thought he was "ruining the game" then it shouldn't matter whether he has a shot or not. He's still in the game, and he's still pushing her for what she'd think is BS reasoning if town. Ergo, he'd still be "ruining the game". Why then would she only withdraw her replacement request when she found out she wasn't dead?

And I can ABSOLUTELY understand not giving reads to sonic after he claimed to shoot her. ABSOLUTELY.

She thought she was dead. To her, it may have been her last chance to get her reads out there and get town on the right track. Yet, she refused to do so, essentially working against her wincon if town. How is that a town action?

And I'm going to disagree with you on it making sense if she was scum. Especially if she believed she was dying. There's literally no reason to ask to replace out if you're dead.... Because you're dead.

Some people don't like to die as scum for stupid reasons or if they can help it. That's why some scum players replace out if they get put under too much pressure.

Just because I'm curious. Do you believe that I'm on the same team as Viomi? Or rather, do you think the only reason I'm defending her is because we're buddies?

I'm actually not sure which makes more sense: a chainsaw defense or WKing. I would think that WKing would make the most sense, as a chainsaw defense would be risky, but that would question my belief that Viomi is non-Marvel scum. Although, that belief is not nearly as strong as it once was given the change in my ZZZX read.

-Bulba

So... are you saying that I'm more of a scumread than Viomi? If you think I'm WKing her.

Viomi is a stronger scumread, but you're getting up there.

Also, you never responded to this. Which is the post I wanted a reponse on the most.
Do you wanna unvagueify the sentence that pertains to me? Cause I think you should.

AJ has fell toward the scum end, as well as TWIE, since some of those attacks I'm having trouble seeing from a town perspective (Yates's opportunistic vote on you d1 is still in the back of my mind as well.). We're actually starting to reevaluate our ZZZX read, as I've actually liked a lot of his recent posts. Displaced is up in the air at this point. Do you have any questions about my reads?

-Bulba

Fuck me if this isnt the worst part of the reads list.

I quite like the part where you vaguely gesture towards non specific pushes that I've made rather than specific ones that I could talk about, and then allude to a day 1 vote that I can't explain so that you can demean my reads without actually interacting with them in any way.

I would suggest trying to do this more subtly in the future if you want it to work.

The way you are defending Viomi is off. She's not a town read that you think has a bad case on her, and so you make a point to address the case. Instead, you've made an effort to discredit and dismiss the case and try to bully the wagon into non-existence. You are essentially defending her just to defend her.

@aunt J

'What information do we get from viomi lynch'


How about reads on me, bulbafenix , twie, yourself, displaced, Chandra, and like almost everyone who is vested in this case right now? Lynch her.

Oh shit once Viomi flips then all those people get their alignment revealed?

Fuck if someone had told me that I'd be on board.

Case in point: Reductio ad absurdum. Are you even trying to understand what MS's point is, or are you just dismissing it out of hand?

The Bulba/TWIE wallfight is simply reminding me that Bulba makes very logical and nice-sounding arguments without altering my opinion either way about either player's alignment. It seems like kind of a waste of time?

Chandra, you've said repeatedly how you think Viomi might be scum, and I've tried repeatedly to get you to get your butt back on the wagon and lynch scum for the second day in a row. Like Ruffling before, you continue to waffle on actually voting scum, and I'm getting tired of holding your hand. So don't you dare say that I'm not convincing you when you repeatedly refuse to vote scum with me, even though you know I am right.

How is asking you about your read waving away suspicion?

pretending like you didn't say "I don't see it."

Saying "I don't see the case." is not the same as handwaving it away or dismissing it. It means that I can't see the case. Therefore, your next choice of action is to either try to convince me or to shut up.

im online too. are you caught up?


please vote viomi

the large amount of resistance to her wagon gives me a good idea that she is one of the most powerful scum PRs (and got pretty pissed off when i fake shot her cause she didnt get to use it yet!) and her team is desperately trying to defend her to stop her lynch. which is why we need to lynch her. if scum, would give us very pretty damn good idea who's on her team with the shitton of defense going on. if town, would invalidate my reads and may have to look who genuinely believed she was town or who was defending her for town cred (note: highly unlikely because multiball)

Hey bulba you know how I was saying that MSs' case is just him making upunsupported reasons for things that explain why things could be scum, based on the scum read he already has?

TWIE asks MS what information would be gained from a Viomi lynch. MS tells him, giving scenarios for both Viomi scum and town flips. TWIE ignores him and continues to dismiss his posts out of hand.

Can anybody tell me why this is town?

the large amount of resistance to her wagon gives me a good idea that she is one of the most powerful scum PRs (and got pretty pissed off when i fake shot her cause she didnt get to use it yet!) and her team is desperately trying to defend her to stop her lynch.

This could be true if one, two, or perhaps three players were defending the lynch, deary.

The resistance to the Vinny wagon is

much

stronger than that. Is everyone resisting against it and/or pushing alternatives sour? I think not. Have you considered the possibility that the Vinny wagon hasn't formed stronger simply because the Vinny wagon is not a good wagon? I share the concerns about the composition of the wagon: aside from yourself and Zexxy, I have held suspicion on every name there. While ceddy I think to be sweet, the three additional names there have been among my sour reads all day.

Actually, there are only 2 players strongly defending Viomi: You and TWIE. Everybody else is either sheeping you, going after the shinier Beast wagon, or being incredibly waffly regarding a Viomi lynch.

do folks think scum staying off the viomi wagon?

Yes.

On to page 98.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Bulb and Fenix you do realize there are two scum teams? It is possible that Beast is on the other team. So in that case no his budz are not already flipped. So yeah that argument does not stand.

You do realize we both already know this, right?? This is from the start of day 2 that we knew this.

~Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

there is only yourself and TWIE defending the lynch. the rest are waffling/not actually defending/standing on sidelines

MS being this much on the ball is scary awesome.

But although Viomi play recently hasnt seemed all that productive, I still think her initial reaction to being "vigged" (i.e, pissed off) looked pretty town.

How?

the last vote by beast was super scummy

vote: Beast

Really? It's actually what I'd expect close to deadline.

actually no

LYNCH VIOMI TODAY BECAUSE IF SHE IS SCUM SHE IS DEFINITELY A SCUM PR DONT LET HER USE HER ABILITY!!!!!

next time shoot your scum read instead of a "policy vig" TIA.

Next time I won't get shots... But your right.


Lynch viomi with us

... I have nothing to say about those 2 posts.

Then why did you comment on them?

Got my prod, Mac is MIA, trying to contact him, may have it just become my main (cabd) if he doesn't get a hold of me.

(Also we're not mislynching bulbafenix today, give it up, folks)

Well then who are we mislynching today? Cause the other 2 wagons suck.

Also, as a side question: Are you planning on ever playing this game?

This is a scum post. Look at the leading question and the misrep.

The fact that Viomi takes less interest in thier(her/his) survival than you do does not speak well of them.
Their insistence that scum is all over their wagon, yet a counterwagon is building.
If they are town, thier wagon has reached stalling speeds.

All of these are reasons that I want to find Viomi town, but it hasn't happened yet.

But, contrawise, I also find displaced and Beast scummy, so those wagons totally make sense. And all three make sense with the whole multi-scum game.

This is additionally a scum post from Grinny, but I have not the ability to explain at this time, as this old lady is posting here between errands.

I hope you get around to it, instead of not doing so and continuously saying you will.

TWIE asks MS what information would be gained from a Viomi lynch. MS tells him, giving scenarios for both Viomi scum and town flips. TWIE ignores him and continues to dismiss his posts out of hand.

Can anybody tell me why this is town?

I got into a big throwdown with him in the NY game forno reason other than I didn't like his style (and bad day). But he was pretty much conf town, and turned out to be town in the end.

His style is the same here, but I just went through a Q&A session about his (Viomi,Beast) reads. I disagree, but think he's town, and his reasonings support my read on him.

I'm not calling him scum because of his playstyle. I'm calling him scum, because his defense of Viomi is not coming from a town mindset.

The way you are defending Viomi is off. She's not a town read that you think has a bad case on her, and so you make a point to address the case. Instead, you've made an effort to discredit and dismiss the case and try to bully the wagon into non-existence. You are essentially defending her just to defend her.

I agree with this but it sorta precludes scumbuddies in my opinion.

Explain.

I gave various reasons why I believed that Viomi's actions were motivated by a scum role PM. TWIE disagreed with me, but has tried not to be nailed down to saying that he thinks Viomi is town. I find that type of hedginess to not be associated with town.

Wait, you think I’m hard defending Viomi without thinking she’s town? ….Really?

If you are defending her actions as not being from scum, then you are saying they are not coming from a scum mindset. Ergo, they're coming from a town mindset. Now explain how that is a town mindset.

Actually no I'm not saying that it's coming from a town mindset. I'm pointing out that I think the action is null because it's not a new reaction to the reaction test, its a consistant reaction throughout the game. So pointing to it as part of a scum case when the action is null at best is dumb.

Yes.

I have, on multiple occasions, condemned the "Innocent until proven Guilty" mindset in Mafia games. That shows a player not wanting to get on anyone's bad side, and is far less likely to lead to a scum lynch, as scum would want to blend in and will try to use that argument to fend off a lynch ("Well you can't

prove

it 100%!" Oh hey, TWIE again...). I normally take an everybody is null approach myself, but I don't dismiss the "Guilty until proven innocent approach", and in fact encourage it between the two polar opposites.

Are you actually taking the point that I used against MetalSonics case and trying to apply it to me?
I literally said that you can’t make up reasons that support the scum read you already have and then claim that if you can’t PROVE that those reasons are wrong then they must be correct and call that a case. So… I mean just swap my name with MS and we’ll call it good.

No I'm saying that stating "Well you can't

prove

it 100%!" is a scummy defense, one which you have actually made in regards to Viomi this game.

But didn't you just get done saying that you weren't saying that it was a town reaction? What changed? How is that reaction town?

You’re taking my response to a specific portion of my Viomi defense and applying it across her overall reaction? Yes, I think that specific portion of her reaction was null. Yes, I think her overall reaction could come from town where you seem to be saying that it MUST come from scum.

I've explained, in great detail, why I believe those actions to come from scum. You have not engaged me on those points, instead seeking to just dismiss the case as a whole. So again, what about her reaction was town? Stop dodging the question.

But you had just got done saying that being town doesn't mean that your reads don't suck, and then when Chandra points out that as town you'd have to give the same consideration, you ridicule that notion, the very notion that you just finished laying the ground work for. So again, why was that a bad point?

So then you, like Chandra, are going to ignore all the posts I made where I specifically pointed out that my reads aren’t guaranteed correct either, and pretend that this is a valid point?

But you just got done stating how reliable your reads are:

Why am I more willing to believe my reads dont suck than other peoples reads? Because they're mine. Because I generated them based on things I saw in thread. Because I have full knowledge of what source of the read is. Because there's literally no chance of an ulterior motive.

So again, why was it a bad point?

What does MS not having a shot have to do with anything? If she thought he was "ruining the game" then it shouldn't matter whether he has a shot or not. He's still in the game, and he's still pushing her for what she'd think is BS reasoning if town. Ergo, he'd still be "ruining the game". Why then would she only withdraw her replacement request when she found out she wasn't dead?

So then you’re saying that being pushed for shitty reasons and being shot before you make your first post of the day are equivalent? I think I’ll just disagree with you and move on.

After having seen another fake dayvig reaction test from MS, I absolutely do believe it had to do with his pushing of her. The "shot" was about MS pushing her. Even if she wasn't dead, MS was still pushing her. Therefore, her reason for wanting to replace out never disappeared. Why then did she only change her mind when it was revealed that the shot was not real?

And I can ABSOLUTELY understand not giving reads to sonic after he claimed to shoot her. ABSOLUTELY.

She thought she was dead. To her, it may have been her last chance to get her reads out there and get town on the right track. Yet, she refused to do so, essentially working against her wincon if town. How is that a town action?

Because Fuck You, that’s why. (where you in this case is Metal Sonic.)

You didn't answer the question. How is that a town action?

And I'm going to disagree with you on it making sense if she was scum. Especially if she believed she was dying. There's literally no reason to ask to replace out if you're dead.... Because you're dead.

Some people don't like to die as scum for stupid reasons or if they can help it. That's why some scum players replace out if they get put under too much pressure.

But we aren’t talking about pressure here. We’re talking about being dead. Sooo… try again?

Don't strawman me. The main part was that first sentence. You know the part where I said people don't like to die as scum for stupid reasons?

You’re aware this makes no sense then right? You think I’m white knighting a STRONGER scum read of yours? How is that even possible? This is relevant later though so I’ll get back to it.

You are misrepping an earlier statement of mine, taking it out of context, and then proceeding to use it as a strawman argument against me. I never said you were WKing Viomi. I said that I couldn't decide whether you were chainsaw defending her (she being on your team) or WKing her (she not being on your team). My scumread of you is independent of my scumread on her based on your defense of her. And you are going out of your way to stretch the WK point here, especially considering that this is multiball, and WKing could work on scum in this case, since you could both be on different teams, and you could only think she is town.

Actually shes a town read BECAUSE of all the bad cases on her.

How does that even work?

@aunt J
'What information do we get from viomi lynch'
How about reads on me, bulbafenix , twie, yourself, displaced, Chandra, and like almost everyone who is vested in this case right now? Lynch her.

Oh shit once Viomi flips then all those people get their alignment revealed?
Fuck if someone had told me that I'd be on board.

Case in point: Reductio ad absurdum. Are you even trying to understand what MS's point is, or are you just dismissing it out of hand?

MS’s point is that we get a bunch of information from Viomis flip. My point is that we get little to no info from her flip. I thought that was pretty fucking obvious.

Except MS had just got done telling you what information we would get. Here, let me break it down for you:

If Viomi is scum, then we can look at who was hard defending her and who avoided the wagon for associatives. The early pushers of her wagon would be cleared of being on her scum team, giving us a lot more possible town that we can use for PoE. By the end, we'd likely have identified 1-2 scum, which would only leave 1, maybe 2 remaining.

If Viomi is town, then we once again look at who was defending her for towncred. We also look at who was pushing her wagon and figure out who was scum. Chances are that at least 1-2 scum would be pushing her wagon in this scenario, so again, PoE is our friend.

My point is that saying that the Viomi wagon wouldn't provide any information is patently false. The Viomi wagon is the most polarizing wagon of the day, if not the whole game. Everybody has been forced to take a stand regarding this wagon, and those that have refused to do so would definitely be looked at after a flip. A Viomi lynch would lead to one of the most analyzed wagons of the game, looking at who was on it, who fought against it, and who refused to take a stance. That's essentially an association with every single player in the game. There is no way that is not useful. Therefore, you saying that we wouldn't gain ANY information from a Viomi lynch is a lie.

Second of all I was referring to MSs’ new conviction that suddenly Viomi HAS to be a scum PR because otherwise why would anyone defend her. Because that’s made up and unsupported.

It's neither, actually. He's actually said how he's come to that conclusion. I'm actually not sure either way, but I can see how MS thinks that, given how difficult it has been to lynch her and how rabid the defense has been (read: based on attacking the supporters and not giving reasons why they're wrong).

Also, I am looking forward to hearing whether I’m also WKing BC or if I’m on his team as well.

Oh look, more misrepping of my stances. The thing is that your BC defense is nothing like your Viomi defense. With BC you are giving reasons for why you think he is town and are discussing in a calm manner why the opposing points are wrong. With Viomi, you are straight out attacking, discrediting opposing arguments, ignoring what is said, and dismissing them out of hand. Your defense there is characterized by you trying to destroy the opposition, rather than trying to reason with them. Really, the difference between your BC defense and Viomi defense is like comparing apples to oranges.

Bulb and Fenix you do realize there are two scum teams? It is possible that Beast is on the other team. So in that case no his budz are not already flipped. So yeah that argument does not stand.

We have not called Beast scum at any point in this game. He's been a consistent townread of ours.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Oh, and yes, I'm

still

waiting for an actual case on me.

It's been given several times now. You keep ignoring it and hoping it goes away.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

He's obviously softclaiming something.

Right you are.

I want whoever our protective role is to protect Chandra tonight.

I also would like more Viomi votes.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Bulba I have Chandra on really strong scumreads as of today

May polarize after viomi flip but I don't think Chandra is a slot that you want any special roles to get on to

I think Chandra is town. Why do you think otherwise?

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

I make the assumption that viomi is scum. Chandra's position on viomi is terrible

My having to hold her hand on scumlynches is the only thing that gives me pause on her, but I'd still like her to be protected.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Oi peace bringer I want you to put your vote onto viomi today.

your desire is no secret MS. If her only defense remains what she has provided the vote will end up in that direction.

Her only defenses are provided by the insurance policy of twie

She has no defense


I want a lynch on her today

again, you made your desire known... lack of defense is null buy annoying...
thing is I can think of a variety of reasons why someone goes out of the way to defend someone

Anyone can do that. However, why not at least go out on a limb and attempt to defend yourself of all people? There have been cases provided, YET, instead of taking the bull by the horns and facing them herself, Viomi has let others discredit, defend, and fight her battles for her. THEN, when she waltz's in here like she's big dick daddy from Cincinnati, she pulls the same fucking card(s), 'all the cases on me are shit. my win/loss record. *insert name here* is stupid. I'm waiting for a case to be provided on me.' Dodging it, EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. MS has provided one, myself AND Bulba have provided why we think she's scum. Not a single fight/bite back. I love dancing with people.... But when I call for my partner/opponent to meet me on the floor, I expect them to show up, instead of cower in fear.

~Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

You have more shots. Everyone knows it.

I sincerely hope someone shoots you tonight though, I can't think of anyone I would want having those shots less including scum.

Bad Chandra!

*squirts with water bottle*

My read on Viomi didn’t come from any post Viomi made, but rather that all my scum reads were heavily pushing what I would still describe as shitty cases against her. I felt that you were intentionally misrepping her reactions in order to secure an easy mislynch. Because my read on that slot was based not so much on Viomi’s actions but rather yours, displaced, and vezoks reaction to the wagon, that’s what I defended against.

That's nice. Now why are you still not actually addressing the Viomi case? What about her reaction is town and why?

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

eh, I won't be around at deadline... there really will not be a claim at this point.

Vote VIOMI

only result that will happen and I won't check in till late tomorrow.

Why defend against bad cases that are already deflated and pointed out why they're wrong by other people? It'd be a bit repetitive.

Also nice opportunistic switch from a town read to a scum read, TWIE. What changed your mind?

Also not claiming before beast. My wagon is stupid. Give me something to defend against besides "ONLY SCUM WOULD DO THIS" even after I've told you exactly why town would. And that's literally all I seen besides maybe fenix whining and ruining bulba's play, and vezok sheeping like "Oh look, easy wagon hurrr"

Yes, because me and Bulba

actually agreeing/linking up on reads for once

in a hydra game when we usually butt heads has made him such a HORRIBLE mafia player .

~Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

Ok, we've only got a few hours. This is a situation where I have no reservations about hammering without seeing the thread, but I would rather have the time.

Can someone put the V and Beastcharizard cases here? And their opposition?

The Viomie scum case is that she is not scumhunting, she has tried to buddy up to me and split this hydra by going "Poor Bulba. Why'd you have to pair with Fenix." in a hope I'd get my partner off of her, when MS fake vigged her, she requested replacement and accused him of "ruining the game", only taking the replacement back when she found out she wasn't actually the target (As I've said repeatedly, if her problem was with MS, then she would have not removed the replacement request only for not being dead, as her original reason for wanting replaced would still be present. Her reaction looks like frustrated scum mad about being killed for wrong/stupid reasons.), and when she thought she was dying, she refused to give reads (Town would be trying to get all the information she could out. Scum would throw a hissy fit, like she did, and try to keep information at a minimal.). Those that have been defending Viomi have mainly relied on trying to discredit the wagon and attack its supporters. As Vezok has noted, the Beast wagon has mainly risen to counter Viomi, as its supporters are comprised mostly of people who'd rather not lynch Viomi compared to those that have given a strong case for Beast. As for Beast, I think his play here looks like his town game.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Bulba, why is Beast's play his townplay.

Because it looks like his play from Fire Emblem: Awakening, where he was town.

Looking at the two known scum ISOs, the case for Beast being aligned with them is pretty strong.

I haven't had the time to look at them yet. I'll get to it during the night phase if we don't see a Marvel flip.

I'm not going to quarrel if V is the lynch, but if I am right and we are looking at dual scum, then there's no way we can have 8 scum in a 24 player game which means we could eliminate a nightkill. So I'm willing to have a little less certainty on beast being scum there.

So break this down please

1) Do you feel the theory is sound?

Yes.

Beast is probably scum, V is almost certainly scum... Beast has more advantages if right, should we lynch Beast or V in that setup?

It depends on how strongly you feel he is the last Marvel. Eliminating a NK trumps other scum lynch imo. However, if that is not the case, go for the surer scum read.

2) Why is Beast town factoring in the ISOs of known scum?

Again, I'd have to look into the ISOs, but my gut feeling is WKing lynchbait.

And another Large running near the same time was also 24 with 2 4man teams
NY164:Mastin's Manaiacal Mafia

Maniacal had the blue team, which was made up of 4 members and was less powerful, and the red team, which was made up of 3 members and was more powerful. There were not 8 scum in that game.

My main point is there is enough scummieness in the game that 6 more scum is easily believable.

Until I see evidence to the contrary, I'm going to just assume 4 scum left.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

*head explodes*

I still don't see how Bulb is town 'cause that calling me out for hunting black scum when I wasn't and then hunting black scum himself seems p similar to what he did in Mastin's game as scum.

I said it looked like you were hunting only 1 team, not that you were placing one team as a priority in order to eliminate the NK. And I just said that it made me paranoid about you, not that it eliminated my townread.

Until I see evidence to the contrary, I'm going to just assume 4 scum left.

like this doesn't even make sense here. A 6/19 game seems super townsided.

Given a 3:1 town-scum ratio, 6 scum in a 25 player game is about right.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Until I see evidence to the contrary, I'm going to just assume 4 scum left.

like this doesn't even make sense here. A 6/19 game seems super townsided.

I know CABD is hinting at being a mason with you Jesus Christ your play is bad.

Nero, the word

ASSUME

being there is key. He's

ASSUMING

6 (given the ratio) in total. Not to contradict you buddy (Bulba), but I'm lookin at 7 (closer to this one) or 8 (than this one) since there's 2 teams to hunt down.

~Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

How sure are we of that though? Can it be one scum and an SK? I'm leaning two scum factions... but...

Based on the double NK, and one scum being hit in the night, it's definitely lookin like Multiball. However, I've kept that Sk thought in the back of my head for quite some time. Just never expressed it

~Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

No. Just wrong. Nope. I don't give shitty town members information before I die, when I'm town or when I'm scum. If you guys were a good town perhaps, but seriously.

I must be thinking of a different Bulba cause he wasn't a total dumbass.

Yeah well maybe you could give us some info now, as opposed to just slagging people off?
I'm considering moving my vote to Viomi. Time and again she has been asked to give reads, or respond to the case againsat her. And her response always seems to be along the lines of "No, I'm too pissed off for that". I mean, how can she STILL be that pissed off? Beginning to think she is hiding behind fake rage.

Time after time after time after time, it's the same fucking thing and I've hammered this fact time and time again. You would think someone would WANT to take the bull by the horns, especially when they're being suspected and have a nice sized wagon on them. However, Viomi's being a coward. So, best to just stick your head between her legs, scream the same old shit every time, and hope it goes away, right?

~Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

Explain your read with a valid reason

This is you attempting to discredit me. There is no other way to explain that sentence.

1. You are trying to discredit everything I say.
2. 65 No one forgets to vote a scum read. Then you try to play it off like it was an information vote. You have to think the person is scummy to want to vote them for information.
3. 173 you said everything you have done was a reaction test. What info did you get from said reactions? We still haven't found out.
4. You outright buddy Squirrel Girl in 183
5. Then we have post 379, where they promised reads. Did we ever get all their reads? No we didn't. Their next post is some reads but none on the two flipped scum we have or half the player base for that matter.
6. 584 is fence sitting. "Someone" could be scum possibly. No conviction for that read.
7. Post 639 looks extremely forced and was out of place. Who takes the time to make the font not only bold but bigger as well.
8. 752 He wants to hold off on the Ruffling wagon to get "interesting facts". What facts did he get? We still haven't found those out either.
9. Posting videos that feel like it is just to distract from their scumminess. Also says: "it was a joke" again. 966 and 986

Here is half the case you can working on twisting around ZZZX.

@Titus:

You want to talk about interactions with scum. Look at ZZZX. Post 915 is the only time he talks about ruffling until he votes them before they are hammered. Great interaction there. Only post about Squirrel is where they buddied up to them. Good interaction there too.

I'll review this and your other post tonight.

Let's suppose arguendo, that your ISO is devoid of all content but for "Rabbits are good. Tricks are for kids..." that way what you said is unquestionably true...

Combine that with Ruffling wking you and Squirrel asking you no questions nor commenting on your absence. You suddenly coming up for air after two hypothetical buddies are dead. I'm not sure what all is in what you linked, but it has to be damn compelling. The only reason I'm not tunneling you right now is because there's no way V isn't scum with her post about agreeing to failed logic.

I don't turn down a request to review anything, but don't hold your breath.

Nero Cain, your post 134? The last game w/ SQ was Charmed and she wasn't spammy. Are you thinking of a different game?

you know the part where she kept telling me to post and crap eventhough I was not really around? Its that annoying attempt at being cute I was referring to. I like her a lot now once she pwned Yates but then again winning a logic war with Yates isn't hard to do.

Illogical = Anti-Town

VOTE: Josh_B

lol no

Mala, in your last post you gave a reads list, why was the whole playerbase not on it?

I think this is something that we disagree on; That bad logic obviously = scum. Not my fault you can't understand that :L

Allow me to throw more evidence your way.

~Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

@Viomi: How do you know PV is town? What was the exact result you got?

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Kill it with fire.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Fucking, CALLED IT!!! MWAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!! Cabd, we've got a strong town block starting to form ^_^

~Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

Fucking, CALLED IT!!! MWAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!! Cabd, we've got a strong town block starting to form ^_^

~Fenix

Would you like to propose a new partner in the in thread masonry?

Yes. Chandra.

[BulbaFenix]

Aww. She was JUST a role cop?

You forgot the important part, she was scum! ^_^

~Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

Also, I have issues with the {Vezo, Titus and to an extent BC} reads in the next tier down.

Can you tell me why you think Vezok is scum? This looks like town him to me.

Vote Displaced

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Pidgey there is a

real

chance that Sharpest-Knife is town. In fact, there's zero doubt in my mind that he is scum.

I'm not sure about PereV, but can you explain why you believe he is town?

Also, I have issues with the {Vezo, Titus and to an extent BC} reads in the next tier down.

I'd say PereV is town based on Viomi derping

~Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

happy first anniversary, dearies

Thanks. 1 year of dissonance.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

>wants to include Chandra in townbloc
>ignores her case

As much as I disliked Umbrage's posts, I actually liked Titus's. I'd like to give her a chance for now.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

happy first anniversary, dearies

Thanks. 1 year of dissonance.

-Bulba

And here's to many more!

~Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

Also, I have issues with the {Vezo, Titus and to an extent BC} reads in the next tier down.

Can you tell me why you think Vezok is scum? This looks like town him to me.

Vote Displaced

-Bulba

He feels a bit different than that recent FakeGod game that has ended. He seems more tame here and there he was a confirmed town.

I've had some recent experience with Vezok, and I respect his scumhunting ability. The fact that he was on the ball yesterday and was mirroring my thoughts are a good sign.

Why is everyone voting their first/backup choices from yesterday like we didn't just get a scumflip? It's time for associative tells, people! Chop, chop!

I'm voting Displaced based on a possible associative tell I saw when reading through the Squirrel Girl and Rufflig ISOs. I'd like to explore there first.

Aunt and Chandra are my top scum reads.

AJ might be scum. Chandra is not.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

I'm no longer interested in an AJ lynch.

@Titus: How did you come to the conclusion that Beast was the last Marvel scum? I went through the dual ISO during the night phase, and Beast as the partner never even entered my mind.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Not fully caught up, but another sweeeeeet result. MS pretty much conf town now. Bulba v likely town now as well.
Cabd I'm less sure of. His posts solo seem to have been a lot better than the hydra, maybe he is just making more effort.
@ MS - Chandra is town, what are you talking about?
Happy to sheep my strongest town read for the time being.

VOTE TITUS

Cabd is conftown. Just sayin

~Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

MS, Chandra is town. I can confirm that.

~Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

I am still inclined to believe Displaced is one of the remaining MUVA's because of reasons I previously mentioned {ISO "Dear You"}.

Then why not vote him and eliminate a NK?

Titus, way to vote and go V/LA

Now you can't defend you vote with the excuse: "Oh I am V/LA guys. It is ok."

V/LA is not alignment indicative, much like activity.

IIRC Rach has a couple posts that seemed to imply she KNEW it was multi-ball. I will find that later after work though.

Seeing as she replaced in after multi-ball was confirmed, I would hope so.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

I'm no longer interested in an AJ lynch.

@Titus: How did you come to the conclusion that Beast was the last Marvel scum? I went through the dual ISO during the night phase, and Beast as the partner never even entered my mind.

-Bulba

It's the total lack of interaction but with Ruffling still defending Beast. It makes no sense. Beast was far from obvtown at the time. So why defend at all? Scum have an easy mislynch there. Given Ruffling got lynched, he should have pushed it when he saw a vote or two on him.

Rufflig also refused to vote Yates, who was his counterwagon, and we know that Yates was town. Him defending lynch bait is not that surprising to me.

If you want to look at associatives, look at Displaced. He holds a weird place in the Rufflig/SG ISOs. Rufflig attacks Pidgey for questioning Displaced, while SG calls him town for the same action. Both really avoid giving Displaced reads, and while SG eventually comes out with a scum read, those reads come out of nowhere, and it's like the reads were not really thought through and just thrown out there. Neither really pays much attention to Displaced. Sure they mention him, but it's in regards to someone else. It's like both of them are trying to keep him at arm's length but have to deal with him in order to talk about other players. At no point do either try to sort him. It's like he's a non-entity to them that only exists as a reference point to other players, like Pidgey or Chandra.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Bulba I just reread Ruffling's ISO. I have to say I think I saw something in regards to an interaction or lack of interaction between Umbrage and to an extent AJ.

It was d1 in a large game and Rufflig wasn't interacting with a lot of people. I don't find it that signficant.

If anyone led the Rufflig wagon at all it was probably me

*ahem* You kept getting distracted by other shiny wagons, and I kept having to drag your butt back onto Rufflig. Do you know how annoying that was near deadline? We led both wagons. You just helped with that first one. Now help with Displaced, because I think he just slipped up.

Probably best way for the day to proceed is for titus to be sorted and then to use the double day to sort me and other Marvel suspects.

What double day?

-Bulba

P-edit: Yeah, we're lynching Titus today. I'd still like some Displaced pressure in the meantime.

@Titus: Are there staggered NKs?

[BulbaFenix]

What did you vote Titus for then, Mala?

Because I want to be on the lynch.

Why is it so important for you to be on the lynch?

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Unvote

If we leash Titus, we need to make sure we know night action targets. I'd still like to take the extra time to nail down the other team. Fenix and I are discussing it right now, and I think we're making some breakthrough.

BC and Displaced are not scum.

-Bulba

P-edit: No. I was mistaken.

[BulbaFenix]

Josh, Titus has hinted at information that she could only know if she was the Marvel scum role cop. She's telling the truth. I think her revelation also points towards DC having day talk as well.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

That's crossed my mind as well.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Let's say Titus is MUVA despite the awkward interactions between him and his teammates, are we going to believe that he's the only one left, or are we going to believe that he is still playing to his wincon and trying to cast a shadow over his remaining teammate(s)?

P-edit

Titus

"only" red scum would resist my ass.(double entendre intended) I've never seen refusing to lynch a confscum (or a claimed TP vig for that matter) work out in towns favor. The town ends up in a mislynch for the day, the vig (I guess you would be considered that since you claim to have no teammates alive) NKs a townie and the town has to go through the process of lynching the extraneous wincon player again the next day.

I absolutely believe Titus is the last Marvel. She's crumbed knowledge of our role, and if she still had a team, there's no way they wouldn't have taken advantage of that. Also, the circumstances of her claim point to it being genuine. The fact that she's shown no interest in actually outing us means that she is willing to play ball, and if she strays, then we lynch her the next day. She's essentially playing a survival game, and I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt for now.

Twie would have been extremely easy to lynch cause I would go after him today lol.

We were actually planning on going after him today as well.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Beast is town, because he was the counterwagon to Viomi and he's not Marvel.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

AJ makes a damn fine point. Went to take a nap and got a full nights + 4 hrs sleep. Gonna banter with Bulba once I get the chance to do it. Cause if AJ is right, that leaves my theory of 3 scum left and I've got a list to start checking and doing it twice.

~Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

Hope everything is ok, Nero.

~Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

So uh. Bulba, chandra, what are your opinions on mala, since i'm apparently just confbiasing on her?

I'm not sure. I had her as town yesterday, but PoE is starting to lean against her. At this point I'm not sure whether I want to investigate her tonight or not.

Fenix and I are going to take some time to do breakdowns. We should be ready to go once we finish that and get back to you.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Redirections are not in the game pidguy, as the mod did not declare bastard. Roleblocks mean I don't kill and have no harm capabilities.

This is win win for both of us. Don't use a boogeyman Pid. You are smarter than that.

Redirectors are not bastard. They're just not normal.

Let me shoot Jemina then Pid. By posting, we are obviously unaligned. If you think she's scum. Use me. It is a free

mislynch

.

My problem with this statement is the bolded part.

It's a mislynch FMPOV as it would actually hit scum.

This statement does not work. Beast is town for pointing out the bold. AJ and Pidgey are likely town due to this statement.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

The wiki doesn't include many implicitly bastard roles, but it does include what is and is not considered normal. Redirector falls into the "not normal" category, which means that it will not appear in Normal Games. However, seeing as this is a theme game, it very well could exist.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Okay, I talked with Fenix, and here's where we're at:

Conf. Town: {Cabd, Chandra, PeregrineV}

Conf. Scum: Titus

Town if Titus flips Marvel Scum: Beast and Displaced

Obv. Town: {Nero, Josh, Vezok, Pidgey, SKOT}

Leftovers (from towniest to scummiest): {AJ, Rach, Mala, ZZZX, Mozamis}

I think that the option of trying to leash Titus no longer exists now that her faction of scum is no longer apparent. If she's Marvel, as she claims, then we've cleared Beast and Displaced as town, since that would make Beast the chosen mislynch by both factions and Displaced is not DC due to him being a strong pusher of the original Viomi wagon (He could only be Marvel scum imo, and Titus flipping that would make him town.). We would also eliminate a NK. If, however, AJ is right and Titus is DC, we need that information to effectively scumhunt and win the game. At this point lynching Titus is the best move as it gives us the most information and helps us get on the right track to use PoE most effectively.

As for the obv. town list, these are the players that both of us have strong townreads on. They're not confirmed, but the reads are strong enough where we'd be shocked if we were wrong. Experience tells me that this is Nero's, Vezok's, and Pidgey's town games, not to mention that Vezok especially has shown a consistent town mindset. Josh has also been strongly scumhunting and has a very clear town mindset. There are also some moves from him that I find very unlikely to have come from scum. As for Sharpest Knife (or as Fenix calls him, Dullest Blade), his confusion yesterday was genuine, and I get the sense that he's really trying to figure things out. Plus, scum SKOT tends to lurk.

Now we get to the leftovers. The lowest read here is actually more of a meh read than it is a strong scumread. There are a few middling townreads in here, but we either disagreed on them, or we felt it was best not to take the chance and put them in the actual town pile. Here's the breakdown:

AJ: We're actually leaning town, but we really don't want to take the chance here. She'll either be killed or confirmed soon enough, so we're not going to fret about this one too much.

Rach: We disagree on this read. I think this looks like Rach-town and Fenix thinks she's scum. We definitely want to sort her out and don't think we should let down our guard.

Mala: I'm torn on Mala. We both can see the case, but I really want to read her as town. Sorting this is our first priority.

ZZZX: Heck if we know.

Mozamis: I took a look through his ISO, and it's not as towny as I thought. I noticed that he really wasn't strong as far as taking stances. Given the player base, the most likely candidate for scum.

So here's what I think we should do. We need to take the strong town core that we have, as well as the town outer shell, and we need to focus on solving this game via PoE. Protective roles should focus on protecting the core, and investigative roles need to help strengthen it. After the Titus flip we need to reevaluate using that information. If she flips Marvel, then we start work on sorting the leftovers. If she flips DC, then we need to sort Beast and Displaced. Before the lynch each day, we will announce our investigative target. As I said, protective roles should work on protecting the town core, but I do not want them to protect us. If we have a Watcher, I want them to target the same person we do. Hopefully we can clear a few more people before we die. When we do, I want you guys to work on finding the scum in the leftovers. If you go through that, and the game is still going, then the outer town shell needs to be sorted in case we were wrong and scum snuck in. At no point should you guys go full paranoid and try to lynch from the town core. If you do this, we should win this game.

We will be investigating Mala tonight.

Vote Titus

You guys can hammer whenever.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Forgot to put MS in the conf. town pile as well, in case anyone was wondering why his name was absent.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Chandra, we'd like a full list of your investigations and results.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Bulba has Fenix ever played with me before? That could explain the dissonance on your reads on me.

You'll need to ask him.

@Chandra: Why did you go along with Titus's Marvel claim then?

[BulbaFenix]

^-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Stupid page top...

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Is this line of questioning really going anywhere protown?

It bugs me when thinks don't make sense.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Chandra, you might as well claim flavor as well. There's no use hiding it.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Chandra, you might as well claim flavor as well. There's no use hiding it.

-Bulba

Lol. Good town. Help the scums more. Me likes you.

I don't see how a flavor claim is going to help scum. The important part of her role is already out there. The character is just window dressing. Besides, she's going to be protected tonight, so I don't see what the big deal is.

-Bulba

P-edit: Because I'm nosy.

[BulbaFenix]

Bulba shut the fuck up and go to sleep.

Probably a good idea.

The only thing claiming flavor does is remove the possibility of scum randomly deciding to try fakeclaiming my rolename. I'm with Cabd on this one.

I was scum in the mini version of this game. Scum have fake claims.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Mala is cleared as town.

~Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA wow. They seriously avoided killing the confotowns.

Metal Sonic was essentially conf. town as well. I just forgot to include him in my breakdown.

What even is the case on displaced?

Both Rufflig and Squirrel Girl talked around Displaced. They mentioned him only in connection with other people and otherwise tried not to deal with him. SG's later scumread of him looks really fake as it comes out of nowhere, there is no conviction in the read, and she doesn't do anything with it. Rufflig only used Displaced as a means to call Pidgey scum. He never talked about Displaced directly.

Vote Displaced

I'd really like to get this sorted today. Our current conf. town list looks like {Cabd, Chandra, PeregrineV, Mala, Rach}. DC should be somewhere in {AJ, ZZZX, Mozamis}. I highly doubt AJ is DC, though. DC scum should have a JK left, and Marvel should have some sort of role cop. I'm starting to have a bout of paranoia about Marvel though, and I'm going to take some time to talk to Fenix about it so that maybe he will talk me down.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Is there a list with all the current clears or do I need to make one?

Mala, Rach, Cabd, Chandra, Us, PV (because Viomi)

~Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

This about sums up my feelings right now....

~Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

Im confident, though i shouldnt really matter. We shouldnt be considering PV conftown on the back of a scum claimed night action anyway. The only real conftowns are the two cops...

yeah Im not scum...we should lynch in the people who still could be either faction

This is essentially claimed scum at this point. Look at how he's trying his best to keep options open.

How are you obviously not DC scum? I must be missing something.

Displaced was one of the major pushers of the Viomi wagon. The chances of him being DC scum are incredibly slim.

Encryptor yes.

It doesn't say DC specific encryptor so it should be every QT/PT has daytalk while the encryptor is alive.

Town post. Beast is essentially as conf. town as you can get without an investigation.

Well, weird Nk's. I would have thought one of the confo towns would have died, but whatever.
So basically we should be able to follow the cop and win?
Displaced's response to him being voted looked a bit like scum giving up as well.

VOTE DISPLACED

This is the other scum.

Actually, I forgot who brought it up but PereV might not be cleared 'cuz Titus had knowledge and she was Viomi's scum buddie.

Viomi was a scum role cop who majorly goofed when giving her results to the town. Having seen scum commit this same goof, I think it's safe to say that PV is conf. town.

I'm going to pause my vote for right now because I want to talk about Displaced's claim. And see if we get some comparisons on this. One thing I want to mention about Displaced is that he has completely avoided any discussion about Ruflig and SqG. Is this the time to talk about claims, because I really think we should wait a day, but this game seems to be stalled.

VT is a safe claim, and we should not be afraid to lynch it.

I'm not opposed to the possibility that Vezok is scum. If displaced is scum and there's still a NK from MUVA, we'll know what we're dealing with as far as game set up goes. But right now, the main possibility is that we're dealing with 3x3 scum, but there's still the chance that one team has 4. If MUVA is 4, then DC is three, but one of pidgey's earlier posts pretty much ruled out the possibility of 4x4.

I think the flips make it pretty clear that we're dealing with mirrored teams.

I don't actually think displaced is scum and never have.

Please send help.

Chandra, please don't do this to me again...

You've been AWOL from this thread for an age, while posting up a storm elsewhere on site.

As someone who is with ZZZX in several other games, I can say without a doubt that this statement is false.

I don't get how the assumption is 3/3 scumteams. Can someone tell me why I should drink this Kool-Aid?

We've had encryptors flip from both scum teams. Given the size of the game, it is very likely that we are dealing with 2 teams of 3, making 6 scum total, and identical roles indicate mirrored teams, meaning that Marvel has a rolecop and DC has a JK.

Bulba needs to confirm whatever he is confirming.

Cabd, Chandra, and Mala are conf. town. Period.

Not completely caught up. One thing I am now confused as hell about is Bulba's role. I thought he was the cop. Is he in fact the Marvel cop? Because obviously if he is, that changes things a lot. My vote on Displaced was based on sheeping Bulba, who I thought was the town cop. If he is just Marvel cop, then obviously his P.O.E (which I think is why we got to displaced as scum?) is wrong.

You can fish as much as you want, but we're not going to give you our role. You'll just have to shoot us.

The only thing we actually need to coordinate is who Bulba is investigating so I can investigate someone different.

I'll talk to Fenix and get back to you.

In the meantime, can we get back to lynching Displaced? He's essentially throwing a hissy fit about us closing all those lynch options for him. What town in their right mind starts crying about having too many conf. town?

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Why would you want to get back to lynching displaced if you have a scumread on Moz?

I have a scumread on both. However, in a choice between Marvel and DC, I'd rather lynch Marvel so that Chandra can still be useful and confirm Moz one way or the other. If we lynch Moz, and he's DC like I suppose, then Chandra's ability is useless.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Aside from their vote, BulbaFenix's house is perfectly in order.

How so? His clears are partial. Treating them as confirmed is dumb.

and why shouldnt I?

Besides confirming/clearing town, building the town block that we have now, being townie as FUCK, why wouldn't you think all is good? Oh, right. That's cause you're scum. CAN WE PLEASE GET A LYNCH ON THIS, like... TODAY?!!? Someone calling out the person who's clearing people left, right, and center by saying that their clears are partial AND saying "The players you have copped aren't conftown, that's true facts." needs to be dealt with in usual town fashion. At the noose, noon sharp. If Displaced DOESN'T swing, you better have a good god damn reason as to why he shouldn't.

~Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

Im confident, though i shouldnt really matter. We shouldnt be considering PV conftown on the back of a scum claimed night action anyway. The only real conftowns are the two cops...

yeah Im not scum...we should lynch in the people who still could be either faction

This is essentially claimed scum at this point. Look at how he's trying his best to keep options open.

This is essentially confirmation bias at this point. Look at how Im pointing out your flawed reasoning for clearing people! (Man such scumtell)

It's not confirmation bias. It's looking honestly at the game and using PoE to narrow down the pool of scum. That's what town do. Scum do what you're doing right now, which is to try to tear down the group of conf. town and sow doubt, essentially enlarging the pool. You have to keep those options open, because if not, then there's not as much room to hide.

There's enough reason to believe the DC's copped Chandra

No there's not. Titus had no idea what her role was. She was working off of Chandra's posts. The Viomi slip is the one we're considering, and considering Viomi's state of mind at the time, I don't think she was lying when she said she investigated PV. Her result of Vanilla Town is a scum slip.

So why aren't the DC's using their unflipped JK to block Chandra?

Maybe they feel safe. Or maybe they're more concerned about something else.

He had over 50 posts elsewhere on site between his prior posts and his first post this day phase

Seeing how he's been V/LA for awhile, and that this day phase has barely begun, I doubt that'd be hard to do.

Utterly astonishing. The players you have copped aren't conftown, that's true facts. Like I said before get your house in order

They are actually. And that's the last I'm going to say about it.

Aside from their vote, BulbaFenix's house is perfectly in order.

Our vote is good. Yours is too, since Mozamis is scum as well. I would still prefer a Displaced lynch.

Aside from their vote, BulbaFenix's house is perfectly in order.

How so? His clears are partial. Treating them as confirmed is dumb.

We never said they were partial clears.

Bulby, deary, do you honestly feel as if a sour player would attack confirmed town which are known to be confirmed town universally? It is a losing battle; I am much inclined to think they would focus elsewhere.

He's not attacking the investigative roles, AJ. He's attacking their clears. He's attacking the results, which has the added benefit of enlarging the lynch pool. Otherwise, the places to hide are growing fewer.

Yeah I'm pretty sure Bulba ain't about the faking innocents life though.

Lying as town can be appropriate, but not like that.

I never fake results as town, and I'm very hesitant to do it as scum. The last person who accused us of faking results ended up being tunneled to death (RIP Rainbowdash).

Malakittens:

I found her low interactions with my kinda weird. Also I noticed that after KidA died Mala tried to distance as far from him in the next few posts. But I was told she is inno'd by someone. Can someone tell me who and when it was?

Slightly Scum otherwise

We cleared her. She's town.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

zzk I really am not that hard to read.


However I like your vote I have had beast as a scum read for a long time but no one really seems to agree with it maybe now we can get him lynched.

VOTE: Beast

So you don't think Beast's ignorance over how encryptors worked and about both teams having encryptors was real?

And because it will come up, DC universe.

UniversalSlutBus (replaced by Rach)
Mutlyedmcc
Viomi
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

Rach is not DC-scum. Chandra cleared her.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

(cabd is back since the doctor checked the "not cancer" box during the consult today, wheee)

Woot! Congrats on the clean bill of health, Cabd

[BulbaFenix]

*still waving picket sign to get Displaced lynched*

-Fenix

~Annoyed Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

He's not attacking the investigative roles, AJ. He's attacking their clears.

And yet, multiple players have reached the conclusion that there exists the possibility of roles such as a Godfather, and players have been doubting the accuracy of your reads in addition to Nally's. They cannot all be sour. Why is ceddy's doubt any more scum-motivated than theirs? It is not. In fact, it is the opposite.

As scum pressured, your best option is to push among the players not cleared. It will not be a permanent solution, but it will keep you alive longer. As town pressured, you freak out and try to find every possible explanation, including that conftown is not actually confirmed town.

I will not say for absolute certainty that ceddy is sweet. I do not have the ability to muster such confidence. I will say that I am willing to take the fallout if ceddy turned out not to be sweet, for that is what I feel he is.

Given the nature of our roles, I'm extremely certain that there is no godfathers. As for the clears, you're going to have to trust us for now, because it is not the right time for us to fully disclose our role. As for Displaced, his actions do not match a town mindset, as he has been more intent in casting doubt on those cleared than on trying to figure out who is scum. His actions don't line up, and a review of that SG/Rufflig ISOs are very suggestive of Displaced being the last Marvel scum.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

"Less Moz, More Displaced. Less Moz, More Displaced."

*carrying picket sign that says Lynch Displaced still*

~Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

I don;'t have a town mindset because Im not willing to mindlessly sheep you?

Actually, that's not what we said. Misrep much?

Im trying to solve the game myself without the benefit of a PR to help me and I am confused about you saying your clears are confirmed because that doesnt match with what Im expecting from what Im assuming your role is. This is a direct result of you talking in whispers about your role. Not claiming fully is your prerogative but that's what's causing my "mindset issues"

The whole point of PRs is to help solve the game. That's like trying to climb a mountain with just your bare hands. Sure, you can do it, but it's going to be a heck of a lot harder without all that equipment. Here we have PRs going, "Scum is in this pool of people.", and instead of going, "Hey, thanks for the help! We should be able to solve this game no problem!", you're saying, "Screw your results. Let's keep everyone open as suspects.". Option A is a town response, because that helps with their wincon, and if for some reason things go south, they can examine the reasons why later. Option B is a scum response, because it sows doubts about the PRs, it keeps options open, and it allows them greater room to hide, all of which contribute to a scum wincon.

The rufflig interaction in particular should indicate to you this is not buddy/buddy interaction, it's too blatant; I can forgive Josh for buying into this but you have the experience to know better. I would hope at least my lynch would cause a hard reset because at present you arent even entertaining the possibility I could be town, despite objective evidence itt that I could be (To the extent you will not vote another scumread of yours over me)

I never said my scumread on you was just due to Rufflig. I said it was due to the way both Rufflig

and

SG reacted to you.

Sooo if it has to be me today so be it but tomorrow;

1. You dont get to be all Pontus Pilate about the town blood on your hands
2. You eat humble pie in a great big portion
3. Chandra gets to own you like a dog

Deal?

No, and here's why:

1.) This is an odd way to categorize your lynch. If you're town, then you were the rare mislynch in this game. Nothing makes you special or unique compared to other players that have been mislynched in other games, and it just shows how no one is 100% accurate. That being said...
2.) We will not eat humble pie like AJ, because we've been correct on our scumreads all game. Being wrong once is not cause for us to reexamine everything we know, especially since we're in PoE mode.
3.) No she doesn't. If anything, this would put us on even ground with Chandra, as we had to get her to vote scum the first 2 days. It would just lead to a greater sense of cooperation.

Bulba, who will you investigate given each lynch? I don't want to cross.

I need to talk to Fenix, but I'll get back to you tonight with a full breakdown and gameplan.

Lol scum.
Why are we waiting? It's pretty clear mozamis doesn't have anything to say.

We're waiting, because we need to coordinate our night actions with Chandra.

Lol scum.
Why are we waiting? It's pretty clear mozamis doesn't have anything to say.

Or it was 1am and I was tired and went to bed? Didn't think flavour was important, and I haven't used my shot yet. Anyway, I'm Hawkeye.

How the heck is Hawkeye a tracker?

-Bulba