Mini 2039: uPicketyPicketyPick Mafia Endgame

[mutantdevle]

Can we vote for past jjh?

VOTE: past jjh927

Ngl I'm already loving my role primarily because it looks like the mod properly researched into my obscure picks. My minigame flavour is just perfect. So thanks for that jjh :P

[mutantdevle]

Also, your mod colour hurts my eyes on maf silver

[mutantdevle]

Hello I need to be added to any type of PT thank you.

Is that your quest?

[mutantdevle]

Hello I need to be added to any type of PT thank you.

Is that your quest?

Well my quest has 2 parts getting into the pt is one. I'm already somewhat not killable at night but I know if I finish it it gets better

Huh. My quest is a simple condition that needs to be met but I have no idea what it rewards other than my flavour submission.

I was thinking about whether it was worth all of us sharing what quest conditions that we have. That way, we can help each other to unlock our 2nd abilities. That said, we don't know whether each person we help could be mafia. So then, would it turn into only helping the people we trust? If so, then that might lead to some town discourse as different people want to help different people and others try to prevent some from reaching their conditions. Then there's the possibility that the mafia may be able to prevent us from completing our missions, especially if they cannot be completed within the day.

The alternative is to just let people complete their missions on their own. My problem with that is, I don't know about any of y'all but, the process of my quest isn't helpful to the town. (Whereas if I told you what it was, it could easily be achieved without any consequences). Naturally, if we follow this route, people are going to ask for help anyway if they feel that that's the best way to unlock their ability. That then treads into the territory of "so do we actually help this person because we might just be giving more power to the mafia".

I think the default soloution is the 2nd option as I'm fairly certain that was the way the mod intended. There's also the added benefit of being able to use the extent that people go to try and achieve their quest as AI.

[mutantdevle]

Wait, can we infer that MariaR is town from her quest? Since mafia would already be in a PT.

[mutantdevle]

The alternative is to just let people complete their missions on their own. My problem with that is, I don't know about any of y'all but,

the process of my quest isn't helpful to the town. (Whereas if I told you what it was, it could easily be achieved without any consequences)

.

I mean, if this is what I think it is, it kinda sounds like a scum quest to be honest.

I don't see why you would say that so easily though, I would expect you to be aware that it was a not-so-good-looking quest so...

maybe it's kinda a nice intention after all?

dunno :/

It's not a full-on anti-town quest lol. It's not a quest I can achieve by myself so I'd need to work with everyone to achieve it. But I can see a way in which it could make things go badly. Don't worry though, I'm not stupid enough to fall into the trap that it kinda sets out. I imagine that we are either going to achieve my quest condition naturally or we are going to come close to it and I'm going to be like "hey, can we quickly do this:" to achieve it. It would make more sense if I claim it.

You have raised a valid thought though, do you think that the mafia are going to have specifically anti-town quests? Because if so, then that's a solid reason for everyone to claim their quests.

[mutantdevle]

I guess the best way to describe my quest is “disruptive”.

Yeah, that's a better way of explaining it. My quest isn't necessarily disruptive though, just that it

could

be.

[mutantdevle]

Wait, can we infer that MariaR is town from her quest? Since mafia would already be in a PT.

VOTE: mutant

Why arent you more skeptical?

In what way? Sceptical of the claim or sceptical of it meaning she is town? Either way, the answer is because this was just a passing thought I had and wanted to see what other's might have thought of it.

[mutantdevle]

Hello I need to be added to any type of PT thank you.

Any... guess you already belong to the Mafia PT?

I become death proof.

Nearly impossible to verify without wasting a nightkill - and by far not guranteed to be town-ish...
talking about things and avoiding reading/rvs...

This is not the town version of MariaR!

VOTE: MariaR

>"Nearly impossible to verify without wasting a nightkill"
>"Wasting a nightkill"
>NK15 is thinking from the perspective of a night kill not working as being a bad thing

Gg ez
VOTE: NK15

To be fair, this kind of bs logic is exactly what I'd expect from NK15.

[mutantdevle]

Oh, and I am a Miller.

Why have you decided to claim this?

[mutantdevle]

If I win the mini game, I can unlock a person's 2nd role PM for them. So I can unlock whoever we all think is towniest. Sound good?

To clarify, are you claiming that your

role

enables you to unlock people's 2nd role PM, aka their quest PM? Because the quest flavour is what is listen as 2nd for me. Or are you just being dumb and actually mean this:

If I win the mini game, I can unlock a person's 2nd role PM for them. So I can unlock whoever we all think is towniest. Sound good?

That only works if you win twice
The first time you win you unlock your own role
Unless you somehow just got no roles at all, which is kinda sketchy.

(Apologies if you've already answered this on a later page that I haven't read yet).

[mutantdevle]

Like is it specifically the quest PM or just 2nd PM or what?

[mutantdevle]

Oof varsoon. Are you going to be posting like that all game? Gotta be honest here I but I found your post just a little irritating. My biggest gripe is how you criticise a lot of people for doing NAI stuff and fluff posts yet a large part of your post has a lot of fluffy stuff in it. Like, if your post is THAT large, and you expect people to actually read it, surely you'd keep your own fluff to a minimum? I mean, I read all of it (except the parts where you had like a paragraph of fluff or something) and I'll

probably

continue to read all of it. But the easier you make it on us the better. Also, I can't possibly fathom how you actually care about all the questions you asked to everyone, do you really expect a response to all of them? Are you going to chase people for responses or what? I was kinda thinking if you were just doing all that to look busy and gamesolvey but I'm more sure that it's just you taking the game beyond seriously and (unrealistically) expecting everyone else to do the same.

The reason no one was really talking about FB/NK15's interactions page 1 is because, y'know, it's RVS. Am a wrong in thinking that posts and especially votes on page 1 and 2 tend to be more jokey and taken less seriously? Maybe I am because I recall being criticised for my RVS votes in previous games but idk the way you really ripped into all the posts felt like you weren't even acknowledging that the game had just started. Meh.

[mutantdevle]

Oh, and I am a Miller.

Why have you decided to claim this?

Because claiming it right in the beginning is the right thing to do?

I guess. But I can't help but feel there are slight undertones of someone who doesn't want to be investigated here. Do millers usually claim early in the game? I don't have much experience with them.

[mutantdevle]

Ahh, fair enough then.

[mutantdevle]

Is his flavor "man who has to respond to every post" cuz I love varsoon but I dont love that wall :c

Ditto

[mutantdevle]

@MutantDevle: So NK15 usually makes really tenuous connections in coming to conclusions?
Is it just for scumreads or for townreads too?
Is it while playing any alignment?

I don't think I've ever played a game with scum!NK15, but he comes to such obscure conclusions about anything and does nonsensical things so often that I can only assume it's NAI for him. If it's not, then I guess it's a town tell. But I'd have to read through some of NK15's scum games for that and I really can't be bothered to do that this early in the game.

[mutantdevle]

In post 111, RadiantCowbells wrote:
It's fairly typical NK15


Thanks for confirming this. Can you support this with links?

I don't know if RC already has since I'm still catching up but I could also provide links if you

really

need them. But if you can accept the statement that NK15 does stupid shit sometimes without the need of proof then don't ask me because I don't want to waste my time

[mutantdevle]

That said, I'd argue EVERYTHING can be Alignment Indicative and that RVS posts do hold weight.
Just not as much as later posts might.

People who prescribe to an 'RVS is meaningless' philosophy strip it of any use and allow scum to hide in that.
I ain't bout it.

Yeah, I agree. But you just seemed to be giving it more meaning than it was worth. Typically, I'd say the time to really analyse RVS content is later in the game once we've had some flips and perspective.

[mutantdevle]

@Nibbui: Firebringer, in my experience, does not panic.

I don't think Firebringer paniced at all, I just think that Firebringer had 2 early posts that are not good; the first one, although it was only slightly bad, and post 12. I think that MariaR might have paniced.

Wait, you genuinely believed the stuff you were saying on page 1? I just thought you were joking around.

@Firebringer, were you being serious too? I don't know if I'm just being over lenient on RVS content or what but I personally think that overeagerness is a little bit scummy.

[mutantdevle]

@MutantDevle: So NK15 usually makes really tenuous connections in coming to conclusions?

To put it bluntly, yes. His logic is often very nonsensical and, as a player who likes to solve mechanically, he often annoys me. To be fair, I think part of that is that in most games I've played with him I've found that I've had access to more information than him so it's very easy for me to criticise his logic when I'd already know the rough answers.

[mutantdevle]

@MutantDevle: So NK15 usually makes really tenuous connections in coming to conclusions?
Is it just for scumreads or for townreads too?
Is it while playing any alignment?

I don't think I've ever played a game with scum!NK15, but he comes to such obscure conclusions about anything and does nonsensical things so often that I can only assume it's NAI for him. If it's not, then I guess it's a town tell. But I'd have to read through some of NK15's scum games for that and I really can't be bothered to do that this early in the game.

Try children of Hurin if you want to check one out maybe?

HEY CURRENT MUTANT!

Stop reading through your own iso you pretentious prick and look at this game.

- past mutant.

[mutantdevle]

Varsoon is by far my top scumread for the record.

Hah!
I'm the only one who calls you out on your shit, of course I'm your number 1 scumread.
Now continue to ignore my questions that I've directly asked you, RC.

Not gonna lie, when I read Varsoon's (proper) entrance my immediate thought was "damn, I'd like to see this guy argue with RC". So if you 2 could do that at some point during this game then that'd be very informative for me

[mutantdevle]

For some reason I get the feeling this post could be AI

In every game, I'll look through my iso for various reasons. My alignment just dictates what those reasons are

Also, do you not look through your own iso sometimes? I can't be the only one that does that.

[mutantdevle]

So are we all in agreement I should win so I can unlock someone who we TR role?

Uhh, I'm kinda against this tbh. I was going to take a break from mafia due to stuff going on in my life but decided to sign up to this game because I really liked the idea of 3 picks and having to complete challenges to get your other 2. So I'm definitely going to be participating in each and every minigame and trying to win as many as possible because that's what I signed up for (not to mention that I REALLY like the flavour of what I've chosen). On top of that, there are mechanical reasons not to do this too. You could very well be scum with this role. You could easily get away with unlocking the ability for a scum buddy as, even if either of you flipped, it would be pure WIFOM of whether or not you used it on scum or town. Besides, every single one of us can achieve the same thing as you just by winning 2 minigames. The difference there would be that we know our own alignments. I think the only way I'd really be okay with just handing you a free minigame win is if you were mechanically confirmed town. But even then, I'd still have problems with it because I do just want to play these minis

[mutantdevle]

The trouble with this is I dont think theres anyone who's very much townread at this stage in the game

Agreed. In particular, there's nobody that I currently town read enough to warrant wanting them to win instead of myself.

[mutantdevle]

The problem then is that if hes scum he'll empower a scumbuddy I guess..but that seems a bit unlikely because it's too obvious? Doing that would give us a 2fer1 if kokichi flips scum.

If kokichi flips scum, then what? Do we just lynch who they empowered just because that's what happened? And if the person Kokichi empowers flips scum, do we just lynch Kokichi because they got unlucky with who they chose? Any decent mafia could easily prevent either of those lynches so I think it would be super easy for a scum!kokichi to empower a scumbuddy.

[mutantdevle]

If we do decide that we should just be letting Kokichi win here then the less we say about our opinions on it the better. That way, a scum!kokichi has less information to go one when deciding if he should empower scum or town (the decision being based on whether he thinks we are all likely to want to lynch 1 on a scum flip of the other). But for now, I'm set on the idea of actively trying in this minigame. I'm not caught up yet so my opinion could change if I see a really strong mechanical case for it, but I doubt that'll happen.

[mutantdevle]

I felt as though getting town to be powered up would be good but there's no gaurantee that Kokichi is town AND/OR that Kokichi doesn't just empower scum.
I don't like it.

Yeah, but there'd be 2 chances of town being empowered. The only thing that I think would make this opinion valid considering your other contrasting opinion is if you believe with a solid level of confidence that Kokichi is indeed scum. Is that so?

[mutantdevle]

No, Mutant.

We would be deciding who he empowers and in the next day we would confirm. It would be our choice, not kokichi, and therefore it would be unrelated to Kokichi's flip.

That's not the problem please. I already appointed the real difficulties I think.

I get that you want to play the minigames, but that argument sounds a bit intelectually dishonest of you.

Deciding who he empowers is pointless in my opinion. The obvious answer to each of us is ourselves. In my opinion, if you're seriously considering nominating someone else to get the empowerment then you either A) Have too much faith in a town read or B) Have no faith in yourself to make use of your flavour. Other than that, our choices will either be wildly different to the point that Kokichi will just end up choosing by themself or there will be a plurality vote that decides it which negates the whole point of us all agreeing on who we want to be empowered.

I look forward to reading your own difficulties with this idea. But I do think it needs to be said that those of us who don't want to just hand Kokichi the win here have that opinion for more reasons than just mechanical scepticism. We are also being selfish. I'm going to be heavily critical of anyone opposing this idea who doesn't acknowledge that their own selfishness plays a part in the formation of their opinion because selfishness is scummy and, to me, if you're trying to hide that then you're trying to hide that you're being scummy.

[mutantdevle]

If we do decide that we should just be letting Kokichi win here then the less we say about our opinions on it the better.

That way, a scum!kokichi has less information to go one when deciding if he should empower scum or town (the decision being based on whether he thinks we are all likely to want to lynch 1 on a scum flip of the other). But for now, I'm set on the idea of actively trying in this minigame. I'm not caught up yet so my opinion could change if I see a really strong mechanical case for it, but I doubt that'll happen.

VOTE: Mutant

I think you're scum right now tbh. I doubt that you can't see the problem with what you said here, even more when I actually already talked about that.

If we're letting Kokichi win, and we can only do that if the winner is publicly announced afterwards, we're going to vote by the HEAL: tag and who gets majority healing votes is the one to get unlocked.

Like, what you have been saying here is just too weird Mutant.

I don't even know how to fit it as a scum scheme or something yet, but definitely doesn't sound town to me.

I'd just like to emphasise this, I haven't read what you've said yet. I catch up in chronological order from the last post I've made in the thread and when I do start catching up I always jump back to the quote I just addressed On this occasion, I've also decided to reply in real time. I'm glad I did.

[mutantdevle]

I also feel like his whole 'power a second person up' thing is very questionable.

What's questionable about it? Questionable of what alignment it's coming from? Because lying about this sort of power is a stupid idea and Kokichi isn't stupid. If they are lying about this role, then they're going to have a lot of explaining to do when no one claims being powered up. They'd be lynched for that. If they flip as actually having this role, then we'd lynch the person they claimed should have been empowered for not admitting it, so no scum in their right mind would withhold that information either (in fact, they'd want to claim it so that if they flipped scum it would make kokichi look bad).

[mutantdevle]

It's not even about letting Kokichi win or not. It's how you're theorizing we should let Kokichi decide if we let him win.

If you're so suspicious of Kokichi being scum, I don't think it would be a good idea to let him decide for himself.

This game works by plurality vote and therefore I don't see a problem with deciding who gets unlocked by plurality votes.

Also, I indeed do not want to get unlocked because my role is simply kinda useless.

When was I saying that we should just let kokichi decided? I think you've misread my post because I never said that. What I said was that I don't think we'd be able to come to a solid agreement on who kokichi should empower and hence kokichi would end up just choosing anyway because we can't decide. I don't think anyone thinks it's optimal for Kokichi to decide for himself regardless of their read on him.

This game doesn't work on plurality vote, it works on the majority. Plurality is just the most votes. That means if everyone has 1 vote each but one person has 2 votes then the person with 2 votes wins. If we empower someone who only 2 people think are town enough to be empowered then that completely defeats the point of having the vote.

Just to clarify, are you saying you

know

what ability you'd unlock if you won the minigame? Because I'm only told which of my picks I'd unlock for doing so.

[mutantdevle]

Oh, I see what you're saying now. I think my 385 answers your concerns. It was probably worth mentioning in my 380 that I heavily doubt we will reach a majority on who to empower and hence the deciding vote would go to kokichi.

[mutantdevle]

Btw I forgot to mention. If I win a 2nd time I can unlock TWO more peoples roles.

I'm not sure what to make of this tbh. It's like it goes against the whole premise of having minigames if the optimal thing to do is just hand the win to Kokichi everytime to empower as many people as possible. Even if Kokichi is scum, this would force them to empower town as well. It's like the minigames are supposed to be Kokichi vs Scum. I don't disbelieve the claim, it just makes me think it's a trap. Maybe the trap is just that if we let Kokichi try to win than it reduces the chances town even wins in the first place. Think about it, 3 scum working against 1 town. Town can't work together because that just gives info to the scum. Whereas, every member of the town trying to win means that town has a higher probability of winning.

[mutantdevle]

If we do decide that we should just be letting Kokichi win here then the less we say about our opinions on it the better.

If this isn't implying that we shouldn't restrict Kokichi choice Idk what it is.

I specifically meant that the less we talk about whether or not we'd lynch someone for being empowered by kokichi or kokichi themself depending if either of them flipped scum the better. Because, in my opinion, Kokichi is going to have to make some kind of choice between whoever we deem the most town if we follow that idea as I don't think we'd reach a majority. Sorry if I wasn't explicit in that opinion. It's kinda hard to explain it when it's so many hypotheticals embedded in each other. But the jist of it is that I think Kokichi making some sort of decision is inevitable if we do this even though we don't want him to and that's why the whole idea is bad.

Just to clarify, are you saying you

know

what ability you'd unlock if you won the minigame? Because I'm only told which of my picks I'd unlock for doing so.

I mean, isn't something similar to my primary ability/role? Because if it is I have a good idea of what might be (even the flavour suggest so) and it's not useful at all.

There's nothing in my role PM that suggests each ability is linked? Assuming all role formats are the same, I can see how you'd come to that conclusion though. Given the partial claims we've had, I think I'm just going to assume that the information we are given is different for each person and not get hung up on the details because they really don't matter until full claims are made.

[mutantdevle]

The implication as I understood it was that we should be having a secondary vote on who gets the minigame power. I'm not about that. Let's all play the game and go from there.

I mean, if we do let kokichi win, then we are 100% doing the secondary vote. I'm currently under the impression that we are not letting kokichi win though.

[mutantdevle]

I have half a mind to sheep his vote on RC though. I've only played 1 game with RC but he's a pretty opinionated and confident dude from what I've seen, it seems strange to me that he's actively refusing to post anything useful when there's plenty to talk about already.

I've also always known RC as pushy and opinionated. But I don't think that thinking he's scum just because he's not doing that is a bad conclusion to make. Not only is it unlikely that he'd be that unaware of his play that he'd let something as obvious as that indicate his alignment, but he's also opinionated as both alignments. (Not opinionated enough to get me mislynched though )

[mutantdevle]

* But I

DO

think that thinking he's scum just because he's not doing that is a bad conclusion to make. As in, your opinion is bad.

[mutantdevle]

The implication as I understood it was that we should be having a secondary vote on who gets the minigame power. I'm not about that. Let's all play the game and go from there.

I mean, if we do let kokichi win, then we are 100% doing the secondary vote. I'm currently under the impression that we are not letting kokichi win though.

Like, you

just

said some posts before that it would be better to let Kokichi somewhat choose from more or less a pool in the matter and that a plurality vote was bad, but now you're saying that if we let Kokichi win,

it's 100%

the secondary vote. You just changed of opinion?

Mutant, are you scum for real? :/

I don't know if I'm just bad at explaining what I mean here if you just don't understand what I'm saying but this is what I mean:

I don't think we should let kokichi win.

But if we do, then who he empowers should

go to a vote

.
However, I think that we will

not be able to reach a majority

on who gets empowered if we let kokichi win.
Hence,

kokichi will make a final choice

between the most popular candidates.
And

if that happens

, the less information we've given about how we'd react to a scum flip surrounding the empowerment choice the better.

My concern is that letting kokichi win will always result in kokichi making some kind of choice even with the voting, but if kokichi wins then voting is 100% better than just leting kokichi choose. We have the same opinion here.

[mutantdevle]

Chibi u haven’t contributed anything here so not sure why ur asking RC to

Can I town read someone because I like their sass?

[mutantdevle]

P-EDIT: The fact you start in a neighborhood makes me think you're likelier scum than town.

Wait, why? Are you implying that his neighbourhoods are actually his scum buddies? Because if so then you'll need to be scum reading firebringer too. And if you just think that being in a neighbourhood is just scummy outside of that then you're going to need to explain why to me.

[mutantdevle]

all the neighbourhoods were generated after the game started.

Oh, I see.

I wasn't invited to any though, sad.

Also who is the utter T H O T who didn't add me to a neighborhood

Somebody masonize me those are fun

I think it's probably best that people shouldn't be saying whether or not RC neighbourised them.

[mutantdevle]

On topic though, hot take: varsoon and RC, I've gathered you both have a masturbation contest at each other every game you play and I'm content to ignore the both of you so long as this goes on because I don't think anything AI can be gathered from the two of you interacting with each other. Hopefully you both start to chafe and give up soon and we can move along

Do you really think that you would gain nothing from Varsoon and RC getting into a 1v1? Maybe I'm not considering the greater meta-knowledge of their distaste for each other but I think any 1v1 can tell us something about the motivations of each player.

[mutantdevle]

On topic though, hot take: varsoon and RC, I've gathered you both have a masturbation contest at each other every game you play and I'm content to ignore the both of you so long as this goes on because I don't think anything AI can be gathered from the two of you interacting with each other. Hopefully you both start to chafe and give up soon and we can move along

Do you really think that you would gain nothing from Varsoon and RC getting into a 1v1? Maybe I'm not considering the greater meta-knowledge of their distaste for each other but I think any 1v1 can tell us something about the motivations of each player.

Okay, now I've learnt some context I think that a 1v1 between RC and Varsoon is probably the worst thing that could happen in this game.

[mutantdevle]

or they have some strange role(e.g. Traitor) or alignment that makes them play drastically different.

Ahhh Not Known 15 don't do this. Think to yourself, "is my conclusion a massive leap in logic backed up by very little hard evidence?" If yes, posting = no.

[mutantdevle]

If you're town, I don't like those odds. 1 against, what? 4? In a SCAVENGER HUNT?

I really really don't like this post. Why would you say 4? It really just comes across as though you are trying to pretend that you have as little information as possible which is incredibly sketchy. With nothing to suggest otherwise, I see no logical reason as to why you'd possibly think there are 4 scum instead of 3.

[mutantdevle]

Even if Kokichi is scum, in a Scavanger hunt I suppose scum already have the upperhand anyway, the odds that they're going to be winning are pretty high.

Could you explain this a little more please?

[mutantdevle]

I'm hard against policy lynching people because they want to play the game the moderator designed.

Where did you get the idea that people want to policy lynch those who don't want to just let kokichi win? I'm under the impression that most people intend that we all just play the minigame anyway.

[mutantdevle]

@Nibbui, as I understand it, you were scum reading me off of a miscommunication and we actually have near enough the same opinion on whether or not we should let Kokichi win. Now that I've better explained my thoughts, has your opinion changed or do you still think I'm scum for X reasons?

Furthermore, unless I've got the wrong impression, Elbirn has the exact opinion that you were scum reading me for:

Yeah I'm 100% against "leashing" the person who wins the minigame, Nibbui you can go kick rocks

The implication as I understood it was that we should be having a secondary vote on who gets the minigame power. I'm not about that.

So why aren't you criticising them?

I think I know your answers to each of these questions, however, I want to see if I'm thinking correctly. There are bonus points available for your answers to these questions if it turns out that we are indeed thinking along the same wavelength.

[mutantdevle]

yeah but in Open 720 Mutant started this setup talk and there he sounded just as intellectually dishonest as he sounded here to me.

I scum read him there right off the bat and surprisingly he really was scum.

I'm not saying this is the same case at all or that I'm good on reading Mutant's alignment, it can even be very silly indeed, but dunno, I don't feel good about it right now.

When I first read this post I thought you just read this game, but you were in it?

[mutantdevle]

It's a 13p game, means there is probably 4 scum to balance against the town powercreep.

Or 3.5.
This setup would make a lot of sense with a traitor.

How do you know that the town's PRs aren't just weak? I personally don't think either of the things you've said there are logical conclusions to make. Maybe that's just my limited meta of expecting 3 scum in every 13p game and I acknowledge that you know more about setup design than I do. However, I still think that you said 4 in an attempt to appear less knowledgeable of the setup and your post here just gives me a strong impression that your motivation for that was a scummy one.

[mutantdevle]

There was a proposed plan of lynching anyone who got the prize who wasn't Kokichi.

fair enough. Though that was for specifically if we all agreed to let kokichi win.

[mutantdevle]

1 - Their tone and way of saying it are very different and more straightfoward
2 - My problem with you wasn't about not letting Kokichi win, it was your thought process to come to that conclusion and how your plan in case that Kokichi won sounded. If you only had said the "I only want to play the minigame" part I wouldn't see a problem there at all.

I thought that your problem was that you thought I wanted Kokichi to choose who they wanted to empower rather than voting?

My 'plan' was me giving various reasons not to let kokichi win and giving my opinion on what we'd need to do if he did. These are both things that needed saying. First of all, just saying "I wanna play the mini" both neglects my other reasons for holding my opinion that kokichi shouldn't win and fails to convince anyone else that kokichi shouldn't be given a free win. If no one else shared my opinion, I wouldn't be able to just play the mini as I'd be lynched for not following the plan. The 'what if kokichi does win' statements also needed saying because we need to know how we're going to handle the situation if kokichi wins on his own accord anyway. So my question is, what's so scummy about thinking about that kind of stuff? Do you think that I shouldn't be planning ahead? If so, why does doing so make me scum?

[mutantdevle]

What sounded scummy to me was that you tried to make the idea of Kokichi a free win sound bad with misleading arguments or not-fully-thought arguments imo. What you seem to love to try to do as scum. Giving Kokichi the win here in certain conditions would be very helpful, and unhappily, we don't have these conditions at least for now. However, you tried to convince that it was a bad plan even before knowing or not if the winner was publicly announced.

I personally think this is an unfair criticism because I don't believe anything I said was misleading in the slightest - at most, my thoughts weren't laid it in the most preferable order which led to some confusion. I also don't understand why it was so bad to consider giving the free win to kokichi to be a bad thing before the question of public announcement was brought into play.

I'd also caution you on considering giving kokichi a free win later in the game. Kokichi's role is first and foremost a trap. It sounds all well and good having 2 people unlock the quest but only having 1 town work towards the quest whilst all 3 scum are working on it pretty much guarantees scum will win. And in that sense, I think that giving kokichi a free win is actually pro-scum. I think using kokichi's role should only be used as a last resort in the late game. Forgive me if I've gone on about this whole topic a little too much but mechanical solving has always been my preference and if I'm not around to restate these opinions when they come to matter then I'd at least want them to be a prominent part of my iso so people can be reminded of these points.

[mutantdevle]

Why do you think RC created the hoods mentioned so far?

Because that's his role

I don't really know what you're asking me here or even why you're asking me instead of RC but I think my answer is "I think RC neighbourised Firebringer because they get on well with each other".

[mutantdevle]

Yo so I definitely have a winner but I have to total up some wrong answer penalties to find out which person it is

Really we're all winners if we had fun but sadly having fun doesn't unlock your minigame role PM


Also I'm having my girlfriend over for dinner so my priorities are way elsewhere and don't expect me to close the minigame for a while

Damn. I hope the future minigames aren't so dependant on being online immediately. Sleep + College = A sad mutant in regards to this game.

[mutantdevle]

Alternatively, everyone claims that they didn't even try and the mafia will be completely clueless

[mutantdevle]

I don't think anyone remembered your reads tbh. I had to quickly look through your iso just to see what your post meant.

[mutantdevle]

Vote MariaR.

If you want to convince people to follow your vote then you might want to actually explain why you're voting here. Because all I can see of your reasoning is simple "she claimed".

[mutantdevle]

You know how someone wins this shit in 30 minutes?
They crack a plan with their team that each of them solves 15 scavenger hunt items then one person submits the list.
If he had on-the-ball help from town neighbors that are pocketed into the plan, it's even easier.

The only other way someone does that shit in 30 flat is if they're literally camping the thread for the game reveal in order to snipe it AS FAST AS POSSIBLE

You know who co-ordinates that level of making sure other people don't get power?
Scum.

I saw it happen before in a game that I modded.

Who do you think was involved in this plan? For this plan to work all scum involved would need to be online at the same time in order to help each other out. What do you think of the various people claiming whether or not they attempted the challenge or were present when the mini game was announced?

[mutantdevle]

Look, it's perfectly plausible that RC got all 40 correct completely on their own, rompers and all, in 31 minutes. I just don't think that sort of thing comes from town when coupled with how RC is approaching this game.

So are you saying that, given RCs lack of effort in the thread, the sudden burst of motivation to win the challenge is indicative that he may be scum? Whilst I don't think RCs behavior in the thread is AI in the slightest, I can see what you'd be saying here as I do think that, in a scum team with RC, RC would be the one who'd be chosen to 'snipe' the mini game as he'd have confidence in himself to wiggle his way out of any criticism faced over it.

[mutantdevle]

I don't think town gets a day-neighborizer on D1 in this setup.

Do you not think that it's far more likely that his role is just a limited shot neighbouriser (that can be used anytime) that RC just decided to use immediately like someone like him would do?

[mutantdevle]

Ok. I think this might be the scumteam:

MariaR, Radiant Cowbells, Firebringer

Who disagrees?

Me. If I could shoot 3 people right now then I'd only shoot 1 from this list at most.

[mutantdevle]

I really can't see why people scum read firebringer tbh. I don't recall anything overly town about him but he's never said anything that's irked me. I'm currently of the opinion that if FB AND RC != scum team then FB != scum.

[mutantdevle]

Actually, I think a NSG-FB scum team would make sense but I don't scum read NSG so that's not anything to apply to FB. So basically I'd rather RC be lynched before FB unless NSG flips scum. But I have no interest in any of that right now and my point is that I don't think we should be voting for FB.

[mutantdevle]

I really can't see why people scum read firebringer tbh. I don't recall anything overly town about him but he's never said anything that's irked me. I'm currently of the opinion that if FB AND RC != scum team then FB != scum.

You don't think scum would actively avoid stepping on town toes in order to avoid catching flak/attention?

Of course they would if they wanted to play safely. But I don't get the impression that FB is doing that. I also don't think that, from my limited experience, that FB is the kind of person that favours playing safe. Additionally, by the logic that you have just given me, you are suggesting that the main people you think that FB is interacting with is scum because he's 'avoiding stepping on town's toes'. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't that include you?

[mutantdevle]

That’s a needlessly convoluted way to say if one of RC and FB are scum you don’t think it’s FB

FoS: mutantdevle

Can you actually vote for Mutant if you think hes sus? I dont like weak-ass suspicion flinging, this game needs hard stances and wagons like yesterday

Actually his last post describing his Fire TR I liked a fair amount
I do want him to respond to this though

Oh okay. I was going to respond to this originally but felt I didn't need to as I figured my response would be of too little significance.

I assume the 'convoluted' part you are referring to is: "if FB AND RC != scum team then FB != scum." My explanation for that is I just didn't know how to phrase it lol. So I just wrote it out as if I was writing pseudo code.

[mutantdevle]

I really can't see why people scum read firebringer tbh. I don't recall anything overly town about him but he's never said anything that's irked me. I'm currently of the opinion that if FB AND RC != scum team then FB != scum.

Actually, I think a NSG-FB scum team would make sense but I don't scum read NSG so that's not anything to apply to FB. So basically I'd rather RC be lynched before FB unless NSG flips scum. But I have no interest in any of that right now and my point is that I don't think we should be voting for FB.

I'm sorry but what even is your read on either of these two. Without tying them together please, I dont do pre flip bullshit

Nah it's all wishy washy crap and tying together two people you dont explicitly scumread and hypothesizing them as a team for idk what reason

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Mutantdevle

Get gone

I think they are both town. Why ask me that if you acknowledge my read on them in the very next post? I also don't see how you "dk for what reason" when the final sentence in my second post literally tells you the point of me saying all that. At least you followed what I said I suppose

[mutantdevle]

but that he's played in a way that specifically avoids accountability and dodges confrontations unless he's an instigator.

What?

You say that he avoids accountability except for when he starts the things himself? So you're saying he jumps in on things and then acts like he didn't? You need to explain this opinion a bit more. Quoting where he does this would help.

[mutantdevle]

I dunno man you kinda do that as either alignment though so I dunno that I really buy the 'firebringer a scum' argument here

????

[mutantdevle]

So you don't think NSG or FB are likely to be scum, but you think they may be a scum team together? Can you elaborate on why you think they're connected in such a way?

I also don't think that NSG is scum btw, I get a similar feeling from her posts as I do from Nibbui's, it's a nice towny feeling (although to a much lesser extent) :3

I don't think they are in a scum team together because I don't scum read either of them but if it turned out that they were in a scum team together than I do think that would make sense and the main thing that I think would make me reconsider my read on them is if either of them flip scum. I can't remember which page it was on but they had some interactions that made me think that they were probably the same alignment. Currently, I think that alignment is town.

[mutantdevle]

I don't see how you're linking NSG to Nibbui though tbh. They've said and done very different things during this game.

[mutantdevle]

In micro 816-I RC was scum and made it to the end-game through literally ghosting when pressure wasn't there, being VERY direct with engagement, verbose rather than ambling abrasive one-liners. Several of you were in that game. Do you see similarities between RC's play between these two games?

No. RC was far more aggressive in that game. He's also not trying to lynch me this game . I think RCs play this game is completely different to what I've seen of him before (as either alignment). That could mean that he's scum doing something that isn't like his scum meta, that could just be because you're in this game. But either way, it's not as black and white as 'he is doing something different therefore he is scum'.

[mutantdevle]

We're resolving me and Varsoon today

I would rather not honestly.

I like Nico personally, but I think she's the best lynch here. There's no logic reason to let the slot alive when there's potential for the slot to be scum, and if it's town they can't be correctly read or produce content to the game. Plus, scum can use her as a way to evade their lynch in late game.

I'm voting Nico unless you guys give me good reasons to do otherwise.

In every game I have played with Nico, aside from 1 marathon one, she has replaced out pretty early in the game. I fully expect Nico to have replaced out by the end of day 2. But right now, I do think that Varsoon Vs RC needs a resolution. They are both big personalities who strongly scum read each other and I really don't think that happens unless one of them is scum. I honestly don't see why you want to go after a lurker that's probably going to replace out when we basically have a 50/50 right here in front of us. I personally find it quite odd that you don't want to resolve this 1v1 and instead want to go after a slot that has the 'potential' to be scum when you could literally say that about any slot.

[mutantdevle]

It's not coincidence that the moment I stopped floundering and started mustering my energy to fuck Varsoon up he put his vote on a lazy counterwagon.

But more on that later, I have better stuff to do rn

Yeah it's not like I mentioned and voted Nico earlier and that people largely don't feel like voting you right now,
It's not like it's clear that if I continue voting you, you're not going to do anything but OMGUS me and be petulant,
Yeah it's for sure not the case that I'm sheeping my highest townread on a read that I believe in and put stock in their confidence in.
Naw, couldn't be that.

I'm at a real loss as to how you think the push against Nico is lazy or a counterwagon.

I don't know about anyone else but I personally read this as "nobody seems to support me in this 1v1 so I'm going to back out".

[mutantdevle]

Does anyone else in this game know, in fact, that RC has the 'force' behind 'a big game'?
I mean, just a raise of hands
I'm genuinely curious what the consensus is here.

I mean, he kinda does. In my previous game I played with him I think I would have correctly scum read him if it wasn't for the fact that he had force behind his words. He made me want to town read him because it felt like too much of a pain to call him scum or try to push him. So in the end I was tricked into town reading him because it was just easier. He was manipulative to the point that I went from almost correctly identifying the entire scum team to being genuinely surprised that he was scum when the game ended.

[mutantdevle]

Give us luck mini games

This one is lol. It's basically a 50/50 for each question.

[mutantdevle]

Well it's certainly not skill or time based lol.

It's probably not productive for us to debate something so trivial though.

[mutantdevle]

You have two people that you think are town. But you're hypothesizing about them being scum together. I dont see where this thought process comes from. If I have two townreads, nowhere in my brain does the thought process exist "these two are town, but if one of them flips scum they're both scum", because I'm not...scumreading either of them? And I don't really believe in making associations without a flip in the first place. RC and FB have claimed neighbors. If they seem to be linked together to you, surely that's why.

Okay so first of all I began thinking that NSG and FB were the same alignments before I actually read them both one way or the other. Secondly, them being a scum team is not something that I'm pushing or even care about but just keep mentioning because other people keep bringing it up. And the only reason I even mentioned it in the first place was to emphasise how I don't think it's a good idea to lynch FB.

There's also nothing wrong with making associations without flips. It's just preparations for the what ifs.

[mutantdevle]

I dont want RC vs varsoon because I want to actually play mafia, not...whatever this is.

Hence why we should get it out of the way on day 1 so the rest of the game can be spent doing exactly that.

[mutantdevle]

mutant if you've acknowledged that varsoon backed out of the 1v1 because he didn't think he'd win it and that's clearly a scum motivated action, why have you not voted them yet?

I haven't voted anyone thus far in this game.

[mutantdevle]

think that it's time for that to change.

Maybe. But not until the minigame is over.

[mutantdevle]

Is there any particular reason why I can't be a part of those final 3 votes?

[mutantdevle]

Unable the read the last 20 pages right now. Not sure if I'm going to have time tomorrow either.

[mutantdevle]

Okay I'm going to start passively reading all the stuff I've missed. Probably won't comment on much of it and instead just give my thoughts on the things I remember and ask the questions I still have afterwards.

[mutantdevle]

If anyone has any specific things they want me to say then ask them now and I'll answer once I've caught up

[mutantdevle]

Okay I'm going to start passively reading all the stuff I've missed. Probably won't comment on much of it and instead just give my thoughts on the things I remember and ask the questions I still have afterwards.

Nvm, I'll do it tomorrow. Maybe. I might have to replace out soon because it's unhealthy for me to be so far behind.

[mutantdevle]

Okay, so I've just spent the last 3 hours catching up because my time allowed it. I read most of it but I think like literally everyone skipped some of the RC v Varsoon stuff because it got quite tedious.

Honestly Varsoon, despite your claim, I still want to lynch you. I think my problem with your claim is pretty much the same as everyone else's problem with it. It's

too

clever. It keeps you alive with the whole IC thing and the whole concept of a roulette gives you room to claim pretty much any ability if you needed to. Someone cop checks you? Oh, you just so happened to get a miller pacifier that night. I think RC was generous in originally saying they'd let you live to day 3 because I personally would want you dead on day 2 if you weren't confirmed.

Also not going to lie, I find it a little insulting that you'd think the people voting for you are solely voting for you because we're either being convinced by RC or just unable to catch up. I was scum reading you before I fell behind on this thread and even before you got majorly into the 1v1 with RC. Your play this game hasn't exactly been the towniest. The only thing that RC has said about you that I'd strongly agree with is that there are points where you'd argue with him as though you knew he was town. Most of the rest of what he's said I've written off as arrogance and toxicity. None of the meta reasons he's given about you I buy in to because at no point has he ever back them up. But the thing is, those reasons don't matter because I think you're scum anyway. RC has been undeniably toxic in this 1v1, I don't think anyone disagrees with that, but you've also been toxic at points too. Additionally, RC was in my voting pool before this spat started and he isn't really anymore. I've not judged either of you by how toxic this 1v1 has been (if I did then RC would 100% be being lynched instead) but have instead tried to pick out the AI stuff from your pages of back and forth and interactions with others.


Eldrin, I think it's wise that you're using your minigame ability now though I don't think it's mechanically optimal. Given that there isn't really a clear candidate for a 2nd lynch I'm not so confident that we'd be able to come up with one during the short period of a night phase (so I hope your ability extends the night phase or I've just misinterpreted how it works). I don't think you should have claimed your ability tbh.

Does anyone have any meta examples of Nico explicitly lurking and replacing out of only her scum games? Because I've played with Nico as both alignments and I remember her lurking and replacing out of all of them except 1. I don't really see MariaR as a good candidate for a lynch either as I've seen nothing to suggest her lack of involvement is scum indicative. In general, I think its bad to lynch lurkers in the early game due to how little information you'd get from their flip.

I remember that Gamma was criticised for some scummy stuff that I kinda agreed with but I can't remember what any of that was now because it was overshadowed by FB being scummy too. FB's reaction to not derp hammering has shaken my read on him but there are definitely other people that I'd want lynched way before him.

No other slot, except Nibbui, has really done anything noteworthy. But I'll take about that later. Right now I want to go and enjoy some food.

What's the votecount?

[mutantdevle]

Oh, there's only 2 votes on Varsoon? I thought there was more than that.

[mutantdevle]

@mutant what is your own read on me rn in general

Pretty null I think. Sorting you isn't high on my list of priorities. I plan to look back on what happened to make me a little suspicious of you before the FB unsuccessful derp hammer but since all it took for me to forget about that was reading a few more pages I doubt it was anything too scummy. In general, I don't remember much of your opinions and stances in this game. That's either because you don't have a loud enough voice here or because I'm just not paying you much attention (given my absence in the game, it's probably the latter).

[mutantdevle]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: NK15

Choo-choo fuckers it's ya boi "Lil Compromise" comin' at ya on the microphone

I don't understand your logic here. You've scheduled us for 2 lynches and you want to make the more important one a compromise lynch? Given you've stated we get no extension on the night phase I don't know what you expect us to get out of the 2nd lynch.

And in response to 'when better than now' I would have thought maybe, y'know, when we've got more suspects than just a 1v1 to solve and people have actually had time to form solid reads on everyone in the game. I guess it's too late to talk about when the optimal time to use such an ability would be though.

[mutantdevle]

I wanna lynch mutant if Varsoon flips scum

Umm, why? I've been critical of Varsoon this entire game; even before the 1v1 started. What you're suggesting here is that my game plan would be to bus immediately, why do you think I would do that?

[mutantdevle]

I think MariaR's claim has some problems.
If MariaR indeed needs to be added to every PT:
What about the SCUM PT? Is she already part of it?

I thought MariaR's quest was to get into

a

PT, not all of them. One of us is misremembering what she said and I'm pretty sure it's you. Scum don't have any reason to voluntarily fake claim a quest.

[mutantdevle]

Wow. I was fully expecting Varsoon to have been lynched given that it's now night but I wasn't expecting that not only is he town but he lied about so much of his role... Dude. No wonder half the town scum read you when you were so dishonest with us. I think this should serve as a lesson to everyone else in this game that lying is fundamentally scummy and you will be lynched for it.

[mutantdevle]

Not shocked at all.
VOTE: Nicorobin

Why Nico and not RC?

[mutantdevle]

VOTE: Not Known 15
This seems right.

Huh. So you think that the 1v1 was TvT then?

[mutantdevle]

VOTE: Not Known 15
This seems right.

Agreed. His bust is worth nothing after the town flip.
VOTE: NK15

Okay, not only is NK15 a trashy lynch but I really would have thought you'd be straight onto RC given the Varsoon town flip.

[mutantdevle]

This isnt productive.

VOTE: NK15

Why are you on the trash wagon too? I literally do not understand this game state.

[mutantdevle]

If this slot is still around in LyLo/MyLo then I'm replacing out, I refuse to play with this.

This is a terrible attitude to have. You're scum reading him so surely you understand that his actions would be scum motivated? Replacing out in Mylo/Lylo because the mafia are too good for you is bound to screw things up and practically be throwing. This kind of attitude makes me not want you to make it anywhere near the late game.

[mutantdevle]

ohh if ur scum i am going to let u live

Thanks.

Also, screw it, we only have 48 hours so I might as well compromisse.

I don't think this is flipping scum though.

VOTE: NK15

I can do Nico as well.

I would even - rather - lynch Nico but we're lacking on time so for now I'm voting NK15 where there's already a wagon.

What the fuck.

VOTE: nk15

What the fuck^2.

[mutantdevle]

Mutant, why did you not vote for the entirety of Day 1?
What do you think about my case against Nibbui?

1. This is the first time I've not voted for an entire day phase but it isn't unlike me to go long periods of time without changing or placing a vote. I prefer to use my vote sparingly because it gives it more weight. If someone switches their vote between everyone they slightly suspect then it's not going to mean much when they change to someone new. Whereas, if you've only voted 1 or 2 other people, it means more when you do vote. I like to only use my vote to either seriously apply pressure or fully commit to a lynch. During the course of day 1 I felt no need to apply pressure to anyone that didn't already have pressure on them and I would have 100% been on the Varsoon wagon if A) I wasn't sleeping when it was decided that the lynch on Varsoon was finalised and B) FB didn't have a triple vote.

2. I think you're shit at casing people. You barely explained anything. There was only 1 thing you said that I agreed with. That said, I am fully willing to vote for Nibbui. I've had my eye on them for a while now and think they are scummy for reasons that you have failed to mention.

[mutantdevle]

I wanna lynch mutant if Varsoon flips scum

Umm, why? I've been critical of Varsoon this entire game; even before the 1v1 started. What you're suggesting here is that my game plan would be to bus immediately, why do you think I would do that?

That argument would hold weight if you ever fucking voted. Since you didn’t it would have been pretty clear that you were holding out despite expressing interest which really looks like a softbus strat to me.

I guess we're just going to disagree here since it's clear you're not going to view my willingness to vote Varsoon as seriously as I do. In my opinion, I should be considered part of the Varsoon wagon in regards to VCA for the final 2 vote counts because if a lynch wasn't achieved by FB's triple vote then I would have been the L-1 or hammer vote.

[mutantdevle]

What's the town motivation into claiming Bulletproof if X happens when that makes scum, unless they have a strongman attack, unlikely to use their nightkill on them?

I'd like to encourage you to think about reasons beyond the information you are given on the surface. If you can't figure out what I mean by that then I don't wish to elaborate and if you do figure out what you mean by that then keep it to yourself.

[mutantdevle]

Do you think it wasn't, mutant?

If it was then what you'd be trying to tell me is that the entire 1v1 was entirely based on personal issues. You're both respectable players and I'd like to think that both of you are better than that. Going by how the 1v1 started, I think this 1v1 came from more than just a distaste for each other. You scum read Varsoon and wanted to lynch him first after he provoked you. Unless you doing that was indeed personal, I don't see how this whole thing has been TvT. But since you've expressed genuine reasons to scum read Varsoon I don't think it was.

[mutantdevle]

I'm surprised on the lack of a backslash to you after Varsoon lynch to be honest. People seem to be kinda avoiding saying anything to you.

This is exactly my concerns. When I saw that varsoon flipped town my immediate thought was that the next few pages were going to be RC getting wagoned and him trying to wriggle his way out of it and I was willing to join such a wagon. It just confuses me that most people have not even considered that the 1v1 was TvS which I'm pretty sure was the opinion shared by most people prior to the lynch.

[mutantdevle]

I'm surprised on the lack of a backslash to you after Varsoon lynch to be honest. People seem to be kinda avoiding saying anything to you.

When it turns out the guy was lying about being an IC I'm surprised I got any backlash at all.

I guess. But the consensus was that this was TvS way before he started flat out lying. I just find it odd that people have completely dropped the issue when I think there's more to be discussed.

[mutantdevle]

If nk15 is scum those rapid votes on him had a busser for sure.

This is the only thing we could learn from an NK15 lynch tbh. But since I think he's far more likely to flip town I really don't think it's worth it.

[mutantdevle]

Do you think it wasn't, mutant?

If it was then what you'd be trying to tell me is that the entire 1v1 was entirely based on personal issues. You're both respectable players and I'd like to think that both of you are better than that. Going by how the 1v1 started, I think this 1v1 came from more than just a distaste for each other. You scum read Varsoon and wanted to lynch him first after he provoked you. Unless you doing that was indeed personal, I don't see how this whole thing has been TvT. But since you've expressed genuine reasons to scum read Varsoon I don't think it was.

Why can't I have been wrong given that he lied about his role and that was a lot of my motivation?

Okay, fair enough. This is probably what I'm overlooking. I still have concerns though. Eg. you were very down to lynch him way before he lied about his role. You can't honestly claim that you wouldn't have lynched him if he didn't lie about his role because if he didn't lie then I'm fairly certain he would have been dead then and there. I also have reasons to suspect you beyond just the 1v1. For example, typically, when someone is familiar with my playstyle, when they role scum against me they tend to town read me with little justification and try to pocket me. You seem to be following that pattern. This process even occurred during the span of our only other game together where you originally tried to get me lynched but when you switched to being nicer to me I began to town read you. You're a good enough player to see that I tend to town read those who town read me so I know it's the kind of thing you'd use against me especially since the people who follow the pattern are always strong players.

[mutantdevle]

I dunno like if someone else was wrong about something would you assume it's never TvT, particularly when my reason to be so sure was, in fact, true.

But that still doesn't explain your actions before the claim.

[mutantdevle]

if I had lied about my role and yall had lynched me based on my role not making sense would you have blamed Varsoon for being wrong? I kinda feel like you would have written it off as being my fault.

Kinda feels like you're just being like this because you've decided this situation is my fault because I annoyed you more even though realistically I couldn't play around Varsoon's actions.

I don't blame you for Varsoon's actions. It's Varsoon's fault that he got lynched and I think he probably would have been lynched either today or tomorrow even if you never engaged with him. But I do think that there is some scum motivation behind your push. Scum motivation that is only showing because I don't think you originally planned to go after Varsoon.

[mutantdevle]

and realistically the fact that firebringer says i'm 99.99% town should settle the issue given that although firebringer's read on me isn't perfect it's certainly better than anyone elses

What if firebringer is scum?

[mutantdevle]

mutant if you think I'm scum because I townread you then you're saying that you don't think I'd townread you as town, no?

I think that town!you would know why they are town reading me and have expressed as such. I think there have been at least 2 occasions where you have made posts skirting around the reasons you think I'm town.

[mutantdevle]

unless you think that between 3 scum members we have 5 votes

that role never exists on scum unless it can only be used on town and even then it's sketchy as hell to give someone like me

So you're claiming that your role makes you town now? If so, then I appreciate that you never brought that up during the 1v1. But if you and FB were scum together then I don't think your role works like you claim it does. FB could be enabling his triple vote himself with a negative modifier or town power to balance it (or something clever along those lines). I've had bad experiences with scum being clever about how they claim their powers with one of them being the last game I played against you. Of course, the flaw with you doing that is that if FB dies it kinda busts you but I know that you're confident enough in your scum game that you wouldn't let your scum buddies die of you needed them for something like that. My point is that I don't think that your claim makes you town. I thought your claim made you town in the last game we played but I was wrong.

[mutantdevle]

I did re:read NK15's case to mull over his thought process and...what's this...

No way, you can't have been serious when you said this. You first trash me because self-meta has no value for you and afterwards say that I should insist on being town read by self-meta?

wtf, you're just trying to bake a case/reason for me to be scum at this point, and a very half-assed as well.

I can hammer this slot yes.

No. You're vote is perfectly fine where it is.

[mutantdevle]

Intent to hammer.

[mutantdevle]

Explain to me how that thought process comes from town more often than scum mutant.

This is NK15 we're talking about here. His logic is always flawed and he seemingly has no consideration for motive what he says points about why people are scum.

[mutantdevle]

I dont want to keep bringing attention here

So why'd you even mention it in the first place?

[mutantdevle]

i think the optimal lynch is actually kokichi ftr

I think Kokichi is a solid lynch. It's certainly better than trash wagon and lurker lynch. I personally have my eye on them because he seems to be pretending not to care too much about the game which I've seen him do twice before as scum.

[mutantdevle]

I'm going to be around for the rest of this phase so unless I die or get badly hurt IRL I'm going to be here to hammer if needed.

[mutantdevle]

Nico did you do that yourself or did someone else prevent your lynch?

[mutantdevle]

VOTE: Kokichi Oma

The only thing that makes me not want to lynch Kokichi is his claim and I think that about sums up their play this game.

[mutantdevle]

Did you forget that I can unlock abilities. Lynching me at night when I can confirm my claim is the stupidest suggestion I've ever seen

Lol, no one is suggesting that your claim is a lie. But your claim doesn't make you town.

[mutantdevle]

i think the optimal lynch is actually kokichi ftr

I think Kokichi is a solid lynch. It's certainly better than trash wagon and lurker lynch. I personally have my eye on them because he seems to be pretending not to care too much about the game which I've seen him do twice before as scum.

By the way, this is why meta is bad. Cause before it was "kokichi tries hard as scum" now its "kokichi doesnt try hard as scum"

Mutant can you post the links as reference?

viewtopic.php?f=84&t=75071 - My first scum game. You told me in our scum PT that you were trying to come across as not caring.

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=76573 - Here I also felt that you were pretending not to care about the game. Though it didn't really matter in that game because you got mechanically fucked anyway.

I in no way consider this a strong reason to lynch you. But it is the only thing that I've noted about your play because your play has essentially been "hey look I have mechanical value" and then you've just done nothing since then. So when it comes down to a lynch between you and NK15 I'd prefer you lynched because I think NK15 is slightly townie and has made efforts to solve the game (even if his methods are shit) whereas you are pretty null with a slight hint of scum.

Pedit: Lol no you don't get to discount the jester game.

[mutantdevle]

Well I've been open about unlocking the towniest persons role PM. Even if I was scum it assists town. Considering scum will try to win the games regardless and an important PM could never be unlocked

Unless that "towniest person" happens to be scum or you have something to mitigate this(roleblocker, strongman kill) - that's a bad argument. Or maybe your ability unlocks TWO PM's, then you could open up one scum ability as well while decieving town. I see good possibilities for this role to be in the hands of scum - just as not all town might have only pro-town abilities scum can have pro-town or pro-town

looking

abilities.

I think that if Kokichi is scum then there is definitely something he isn't telling us. Eg. what if he is informed of what ability he unlocks for the town.

[mutantdevle]

Can you not see how bad nk15's vote on me was after the nico thing?

I guess, but that's just how NK15 is. But maybe I'm just giving him too much of a free pass.

[mutantdevle]

NK15 maybe scum. who knows. Mutant's super townread there makes me scared to vote there since I know that I would have trouble reading there.
I don't really know if Mutant can read him either? So, like? I don't know!

I don't have a town read on him per se but I just have heavy caution in lynching him. He has the perfect playstyle to be lynch bait and he's the one person that I'd expect scum to misslynch instead of night killing 100% of the time. Though I guess that also makes his lynch one of the most informative and his flip will confirm whether the people pushing his lynch are pushing lynch bait or just getting lucky in hitting scum as I really don't believe anyone genuinely calling him scum has any valid reasons. They are primarily reading him on his playstyle. And, y'know, I like the guy. As much as his logic frustrates me sometimes his crazy ideas bring a smile to my face.

As far as I'm concerned, we don't need him to be lynched to get AI information from those voting him. And in my opinion we could use someone like NK15. He's an outside of the box thinker. That's useful. Sure, he doesn't always reach the right conclusions, but he really isn't destructive and he's easily controlled. I don't think he'd get much of his own way as scum because barely anyone listens to him. The only times we do is when he's made a solid conclusion for once and that's often beneficial. Lynching NK15 is something I'd be far more comfortable with in the late game because at least then we've had a chance to see how other people interact with him so that judging whether someone voting for him is scummy would be easier.

I'm going to UNVOTE: actually. My reason for voting Kokichi is much less to do with them then it is me just wanting someone other than NK15 lynched. But I'll have no part in lynching NK15 unless I think we'd end in a no lynch without my vote. But I'm pretty sure NK15 is the lynch here anyway.

This is all on the assumption that he flips town. If he doesn't then fuck me I guess but I really would have thought NK15's scum game would be beyond obvious.

[mutantdevle]

Also, I don't like how mutant isn't one bit suspicious of NK15. Even if he say things like that as town, won't he do the similar as scum?

I'm not suspicious of NK15 because nothing he's done has stood out to me as scummy. What you are scum reading him for is entirely his playstyle.

[mutantdevle]

So I used my one shot role to keep the thread open at night but it also made someone immune to a lynch and the person I chose for that was someone i then voted for?

This is pretty contrived considering abilities...you know. Do one thing.

Keeping the thread open and making someone immune is 2 separate abilities. We know you have 2 abilities. Furthermore, making someone immune that you were voting for doesn't mean shit because it could easily be scum theatre.

[mutantdevle]

At least nk15 town flip tells us we can mercilessly kill all 3 of Kokichi Nico Maria and expect 2 scum flipw

Exactly my thoughts though maybe not as harsh as you put it lol.

[mutantdevle]

Just because someone has a scummy playstyle doesn't mean they can't get a red role pm

His playstyle isn't even scummy. He just comes to the wrong conclusions and tends not think about things before he posts them. That's my impression anyway. And that kind of playstyle leads to easy scum slips. If he was scum I'd think we'd have a stronger indication of that than just him saying some illogical things.

[mutantdevle]

Fwiw mutant your posting this game has been by far the best

This is not a pocket attempt ftr

Thanks That's gonna mean a lot to me post game if you're town.

[mutantdevle]

If the nk15 lynch is town do something about it

I did try to do something about it. Not only do I believe that I've failed that but my alternative wasn't an effective soloution. I think trying to deny that NK15 is the lynch here would just result in a no lynch which is even less desirable and just a waste of an ability.

[mutantdevle]

If FB’s vote counts as triple then Kokichi has been lynched.

[mutantdevle]

If not then the phase ended with a no lynch.

Either way we’re waiting for the mod now.

[mutantdevle]

@mod,

RC won a mini game yet his flip does not include a mini game role PM. Is this a mod error?

[mutantdevle]

@mod,

RC won a mini game yet his flip does not include a mini game role PM. Is this a mod error?

Fuck me I can't read. Ignore me please mod.

[mutantdevle]

hi. i'm reasonably confident that there are three scum out of the four of {elbirn, maria, kokichi, nk15}.

i invite any disagreement.

I disagree. I'd switch NK15 out for Nibbui.

[mutantdevle]

hi. i'm reasonably confident that there are three scum out of the four of {elbirn, maria, kokichi, nk15}.

i invite any disagreement.

I disagree. I'd switch NK15 out for Nibbui.

Nico probably belongs in the PoE pool too.

[mutantdevle]

Nicorobin is town.

Based on what?

[mutantdevle]

I think something everyone should be focusing on is the night voting that took place yesterday, especially with the knowledge that nicorobin is town.

Unless you have something to claim nico being town is far from a certainty.

[mutantdevle]

Mutant, I dislike you white knighting NK15 to a extreme ammount so I'm gonna engage you.

Why do you think that NK15 belongs in the town section and why would I be inside the lynchpool instead of him?

Not Known 15 is fundamentally lynch bait due to the way he plays. Often his posts consist of his raw thoughts as he thinks of them which leads him to post a lot of half-formed or outright wrong conclusions. This gets him in trouble and he can easily be framed as mafia. The fact that no one can point to anything scummy that he's done outside of his lynch baity nature tells me that everyone who has voted for him is either falling for that lynch bait or are mafia trying to get an easy lynch. On top of this, I expect NK15's scum game to be very very noticeable. I've never seen his scum game, but he strikes me as someone who would often slip. It's alright saying that he's scummy because what he is saying doesn't make sense, but NK15 doesn't make sense. What you should be questioning is "does this make sense

for NK15

". And if you asked me that question about any of his posts this game then I'd say yes, it does make sense for him. I feel that I've played enough games with NK15 and witnessed his logic first hand that I know what makes sense for him. In almost all of his posts he explains his logic. You can track back what made him think certain things. If you can't, then you question him. He'll be able to explain because he plays an honest game. So you'd know he is scum when he's playing dishonestly.

In short, think of it as this: People are voting for NK15 for purely lynch bait reasons. You cannot be lynch bait if you aren't town.

[mutantdevle]

NK15 hasn't done anything I've disliked. You, however, have. Sure, you've had some posts that have been quite townie to the point where I almost put you in my town pile. But since then you've had some scummy posts again so you're back in my lynch pool.

[mutantdevle]

I’ll catch up later today hopefully.

[mutantdevle]

hi. i'm reasonably confident that there are three scum out of the four of {elbirn, maria, kokichi, nk15}.

i invite any disagreement.

I disagree. I'd switch NK15 out for Nibbui.

Why

I think the answer to that is pretty obvious to be fair.

[mutantdevle]

I very much doubt that Nibbui is scum here. Why do you think he is?

I may go into the specifics once I've caught up if I feel like it but as a starter task just do this:

Read Nibbui's iso with the information in my mind that both Varsoon and RC are town. Because to me a lot of what Nibbui says sounds like he knew that the entire time.

[mutantdevle]

Mutant, we've played together in more than a few games by now. Can you trust in me enough to believe me when I say that she's town? I have 100% confidence in this.

I'd trust town!you without a doubt. But thus far I don't town read you because you haven't exactly said or done a lot.

[mutantdevle]

i actually really like this logic and can add onto it myself the knowledge that in NK15's scumgame (from what i've seen) he really can't replicate the kind of posts that he's made this game

like i think i pointed out to kokichi earlier, i don't think nk15 could make a massive case like the one he made on nibbui as scum

So why were you on his wagon?

[mutantdevle]

NSG I believe in you and I wish you could have played like this Day 1

i wish i could have played like this day one too. there's actually just a lot of things that have come together very specifically right now to cause this shift:

• My V/LA is coming to a close and all of the real life stuff i've been busy with for a while is winding down
  
• With RC dead, i feel a need to step up and be more active in pushing my reads. Me and RC had basically the same poe at the end of the day yesterday so I was basically just playing in the neighborhood for a long time
  
• I didn't scumread Varsoon but I wasn't going to fight RC on it. That's out of the way now.
  
• I can't die so I don't need to worry about getting nightkilled.

and finally, i realized that i'm not going to passively sit by, not push my reads and let town lose, which is basically the entire reason for why i lost the last two towngames that i've lost, as well as for why i nearly lost some of the last few towngames that i still won.

I'm glad you explained this. It gives me more faith in you. I hope that by the time I'm caught up that I town read you otherwise I'm going to be disappointed.

[mutantdevle]

I think that Elbirn is town.

Why?

[mutantdevle]

I think one of the biggest issues people are having is they're taking people by the rep and using it as an excuse to not lynch them like.
Is Nk15 an easy lynch
Is Nico an easy lynch
Maybe even chibi an easy lynch.
Yes. So what? That doesn't stop them from having a chance at being scum and you shouldn't fault people for pushing that. I think it comes down to the reasoning why you push that player that's important.

This is exactly the reason I oppose the NK15 lynch. People's stated reasoning makes me think he is being targetted for nothing more than his lynch baity nature. Also, if you don't recall, Nico was almost definitely going to be lynched before it was outright prevented. It seems momentum for that died there too but I don't think many people are completely opposed to her lynch. And if anything, her reputation was used as a point to lynch her in the first place. As for Chibi, I don't recall their reputation even being mentioned? It seems to me here that you're trying to claim that there's a problem when there isn't one.

[mutantdevle]

NSG, by the way, I may have amnesia but I don't remember you answering me about your read on Nico. Is it mod confirmed info? Or is it by play?

I think NSG is purposely dodging this question.

[mutantdevle]

NSG, by the way, I may have amnesia but I don't remember you answering me about your read on Nico. Is it mod confirmed info? Or is it by play?

I think NSG is purposely dodging this question.

And I don't see why tbh. She literally can't be night killed so I don't understand why she would withhold any sort of information from us, especially mechanical stuff. That's what makes me so hesitant to town read her. The only reason she'd refuse to tell us where this read came from would be if she thinks she would be lynched for it. That's not necessarily scummy, sure. But since I don't see how anything NSG could tell us about how she reached this conclusion would be scummy it makes me question why she'd refuse to tell us in the first place and without an answer I just can't put my trust in her.

[mutantdevle]

To uphold my PR.....

Meet Phosphophyllite

Can you either like, play properly or replace out please? Thanks.

[mutantdevle]

My gut scum read on Day 1 was Fire but I'm now starting to wonder if it's really mechanically likely that a scum player would be given a freaking triple vote, even if that triple vote is dependent on a town player's actions.

This logic is heavily flawed since the triple vote was entirely dependent on the actions of someone who was town and it's confirmed that this role did indeed exist without restriction but hey if your bad logic makes you town read FB then I'm not going to tell you to think otherwise. Keep doing as you do.

[mutantdevle]

i'm beginning to think perhaps i should rethink firebringer being town.

Is your reevaluation of FB simply because your lynch pool felt too small or what?

[mutantdevle]

NSG look at Kokichi/Mutant interactions.

am I being delusional here or there's some potential there?

You're being delusional. Trust.

[mutantdevle]

Elbirn has ur meta shifted a lot since last we played btw? Cause this playstyle ur doing just doesn't seem right.

I'm an outrageous shit poster with occasional moments of genius, so no

Huh. I wouldn't have described you like this at all. Only after looking at your iso can I kinda see what you mean with the shitposting but I'm yet to see the 2nd part of this description.

[mutantdevle]

No it's not obvious so feel free to case me

Well, it is obvious... think about both halves of the equation instead of it just being about you. I have stated strong opposition to lynching NK15 and I've also stated criticisms of you throughout the game. So whilst it isn't obvious that you are scum, it certainly is obvious that I'd not want NK15 in the lynch pool and would want you in it. And in that respect, Kokichi's question was completely stupid and, in my opinion, just something he said to give more of an impression that he is game solving.

And no, I'm not going to case you right now. You're not my strongest scum read, there are other things I want to deal with first, and I only tend to properly case people when I want the case to lead to a lynch. Since my read on you has wavered a bit throughout this game, I still consider you redeemable. But even before any of that, I want both minigames out the way first. Feel free to engage with me and/or make that case about whatever you see between me and Kokichi though.

[mutantdevle]

I think it's selling things a little short to say that the "only" reason that i could possibly not reveal something is because i would be worried about getting lynched. There are a few things I want to go through here: for one, in general i think i'm someone who's far more reluctant to claim things than the average person on MS. In my mind, it benefits only scum for me to reveal the nature of what i'm talking about. Plus, allowing ambiguity about the nature of what i'm talking about also allows for – I think – better scumhunting. I think everyone could agree that getting to see pushes from people on someone whom I know to be town offers me more information than the alternative, no?

This is actually really similar to what just happened in RC's large theme game that just finished, where even though i was conftown due to a parity cop, people still got antsy and even suspected me just because i didn't claim. Let's be clear – if you suspect me for not making things clear, in your mind I am scum who:

Has decided to make this whole deal for nicorobin for some reason
Cannot possibly come up with a believable fakeclaim (this isn't true)
For some reason cannot just say or will not just say "I have an incredibly reliable towntell on her"

Like, I don't know. I feel like I deserve a bit more credit in that imagining a scenario in which I'm scum doing this also carries with it the implicit assumption that i'm really dumb and can't do this. The simpler explanation is that i just actually have real reasons. Sure, I'm certain post-game or even later in the game people will say that i made a mistake in doing what i'm doing and that i was being dumb now, but that doesn't change the fact that i do have real reasons.

Fair enough, but you still can't seriously expect anyone to trust you on a highly questionable read when you are openly withholding vital information from us. If you have something that proves Nico as town then you should out that. Sure, that may result in Nico being night killed. But first of all, given Nico's lack of content, I doubt any scum would night kill her. And secondly, if they did, then I'd much prefer Nico to be night killed than someone who is, to put it bluntly, actually useful.

[mutantdevle]

You strongly townread firebringer? Could you go into that a little bit?

For the most part, I've been town reading FB throughout this game. Some things shook me a bit, but I believe that by association with RC and from RC's own town read of FB that FB is almost definitely town. I doubt that my opinion on that is going to change now unless someone gives me a strong reason for why it should change.

[mutantdevle]

I hope everyone had a good Christmas. I'll catch up at some point in the next day or so.

[mutantdevle]

waow
That looks like defensive scum
VOTE: Kokichi Oma

Which post is this in reference too?

[mutantdevle]

Ok I'm outing. I got an IC as my role unlocked last night. I can use it tonight. Lynch gamma

Is this a joke? Because honestly it feels like a joke. Why would you claim this now instead of when you were at L-1/2? It seems like you just claimed IC to get Gamma lynched which sounds oddly familiar.

[mutantdevle]

Lynch gamma now. I have meta with him. Hes scum. He uses weak reasons as scum

Do you wanna link us to this meta or are you just assuming we're to take your word on it because of your claim?

[mutantdevle]

I've been thinking and came to the conclusion that NSG isn't as obvtown as I superficially thought.

I don't think that a supposed scum!NSG acts much differently in a general sense, however, I think that her mysterious clearing on Nico might be very town indicative honestly.

I can't see very clearly why scum!NSG would do that at all with the info I've right now.

Not impossible at all but I don't find it very likely, and I don't think I can give myself the luxury to focus on her with so many shaky slots.

This post confuses me. Maybe I'm just not understanding your post properly and correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the first line you saying that NSG isn't as town as you thought and then the rest of your post giving reasons why she IS town?

[mutantdevle]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald
Very well... sheeping now.

VOTE: nk15

Sheeping the guy you wanted lynch last night for no reason. Right.

Lynch this instead

Nk15 is scum trying to get town gamma lynched because me and kokichi are easier then gamma btw
VOTE: Nk15

*Disapproval intensifies*

MariaR why would NK15 go after gamma if you and kokichi are easier?

[mutantdevle]

If you're too busy irl to play this game, you have my sympathy, and for your own health and the health of this game, you should replace out.

If you're incapable of playing the game until some nebulous "late game" appears, you're making excuses that I really just have no time for.

In either case your slot is still basically locktown so if you could replace out and give us someone who actually wants to play that'd be very helpful. I'm not interested in harassing or sounding like a bully, I'm not gonna bring this up again. If the above is true, you're dead in the water and dragging us down.

Honestly, I agree with this Nico. You say you're not going to be useful until the late game, but how do you know you're not still going to be busy and too tired in the late game too? It's clear you're not enjoying this game. It's clearly a burden on your life at the moment. I get that the role is your picks and you want to play them but does that really mean much when you're not present enough in the game for your role to actually mean anything?

[mutantdevle]

If you can't understand the logic in my vote then that's your issue not mine

This is a terrible attitude to have.

[mutantdevle]

@Kokichi

Ok I'm outing. I got an IC as my role unlocked last night. I can use it tonight. Lynch gamma

What was your quest, assuming by last night you mean last in-game night?

Or did you mean your minigame role?

Do nothing. I explained last night

So this post made me question if you had mentioned something about your quest role PM being unlocked last night so I skimmed through your iso but didn't find anything. But doing that made me realise something, you were very nearly lynched during the night - to the point where you would be dead by now if FB's vote counted as 3. So why the hell would you fail to mention that you were an IC then?

[mutantdevle]

Yeah that's exactly it

I don't think NSG has been entirely out of her scum range but in that post I point out some good points on her being town.

Principally because I think I know how she developed her read on Nico and I doubt scum!NSG would clear her because it's kind of unnecessary and doesn't give her as much credit. Some of you even got a bit suspicious of her doing so.

But I wouldn't be surprised if she noticed that and did so as scum, but again, I find more likely to come from town!NSG.

So what precisely caused you to say that she isn't as obvtown as you thought? It's kinda odd that you'd mention without any elaboration.

[mutantdevle]

Fair enough. I don't remember much about Chibi in general to be honest except for the fact that a lot of people are strongly town reading them. I think people have overexaggerated how townie Chibi is but I have no interest in seeing them lynched anytime soon so as far as I'm concerned that's whatever.

@mod

when's the next minigame?

[mutantdevle]

Mutant stop posting bad

At least I have good posts as well. That's more than what can be said for you ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Instead of posting pointless stuff like this could you maybe address some of my posts that were directed towards you?

[mutantdevle]

but I can see the logic of "NK15 is voting between us carefree so Gamma is probably town"

I don't think anything that Kokichi did would suggest this. Voting NK15 wasn't about you, it was about NK15's actions. I'm not sure whether you're phrasing it oddly but given that Kokichi has since made it very clear that he still scum reads you I would have expected a statement like this to be in past tense. The idea that you still believe this statement makes me think that your opinion here isn't genuine.

[mutantdevle]

Mutant stop posting bad

At least I have good posts as well. That's more than what can be said for you ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Instead of posting pointless stuff like this could you maybe address some of my posts that were directed towards you?

You're blindly tring a scum.

Well you're wrong, but that's beside the point because my disapproval in your choice of wagon wasn't the only thing I said about you. In particular, I want you to address this:

you were very nearly lynched during the night - to the point where you would be dead by now if FB's vote counted as 3. So why the hell would you fail to mention that you were an IC then?

[mutantdevle]

Read the whole post fuckwit

@Nibbui I can see Kokichi’s logic there actually

Could you explain it for me?

Nibbui is arguing that Kokichi should suspect NK15 and me as buddies but I can see the logic of "NK15 is voting between us carefree so Gamma is probably town"

Plus even if I'm reading the situation wrong switching votes between scumreads isn't scummy.

Dumbass.

Woah, what's with this sudden agression?

So what you're saying is that you were indeed reading the situation wrong, and that you knew that when you wrote that post? Because if so, I still think your phrasing there is a bit awkward. It's written from the point of view of someone who thinks they're right but still considers the possibility that they were wrong rather than someone who knew they were wrong but wanted to explain their thought process at the time.

[mutantdevle]

It's written that way because BECAUSE THAT'S THE FUCKING CASE!
You saying I knew I was wrong when I didn't until later is fucking awful and manipulative.

I think I'm missing context here that you haven't provided.

Okay. I understand my confusion now. The post you were replying to was made a few posts before Kokichi explicitly stated they still scum read you. Hence, I assume you hadn't read that post when you made your one. I would have appreciated you simply pointing that out instead of getting all arsey and aggressive over my comments.

[mutantdevle]

How was I to know you read things out of order?

I didn't... NSG asks you to explain in 2936, Kokichi explicitly states they still scum read you (something I think was obvious anyway) in 2940. Hence when you replied to NSG's 2936, you wouldn't have read 2940. When I saw your 2971, the order of the posts wasn't on my mind - just the fact that you were saying something that seemed awkward in consideration of the information that I knew.

[mutantdevle]

I think I just realized that Nibbui is scum.

What fun!

What caused your realisation?

[mutantdevle]

Okay, here is my readlist then


Townleans: ChibiBear, mutantdevle, Not Known 15
Null: northsidegal, Elbirn
Scumleans: Firebringer, Kokichi Oma, MariaR
Scums: Nibbui, Gamma Emerald

There, you happy?

I don't know why you got all worked up for because this is actually a fairly decent reads list. There are some people that I'd disagree with your placement of them but I get that you probably haven't strongly considered many of these people.

[mutantdevle]

Well, no, I kinda made that list using Random. org, because you said you'd be okay with me doing that.

Oh

[mutantdevle]

When you say 'kinda' is that just a figure of speech or are some of those reads your actual reads?

[mutantdevle]

I dont expect or want anyone to solve the game just because I snapped my fingers.

Well if the entire scum team is a part of the 50% then this is a valid way to solve the game.

[mutantdevle]

I've come to the PoE of the team being [Kokichi, MariaR, NK15] and I'm not sure what do with that if not be weirded out.

You'll be even more weirded out when you finally realise that NK15 doesn't belong there.

[mutantdevle]

Do you have any other scumreads aside from the claimed IC?

Do you actually believe the claimed IC? Because this post feels like you're throwing shade at Nibbui for disbelieving the claim.

[mutantdevle]

I'm thinking you're possibly scum so like why engage?

...

[mutantdevle]

Maria > Kokichi (assuming no IC reveal) > Gamma > Firebringer

Fixed.

Though I kinda wanna lynch Kokichi today tbh since I'm 90% sure they are lying about their claim.

[mutantdevle]

i hate all of u

[mutantdevle]

MariaR why would NK15 go after gamma if you and kokichi are easier?

Because if you can get a harder lynch off then you go back to the easy ones after. Kinda easy

Whilst I don't think such course of action is completely beyond what NK15 would do I think his plans are usually much more short term. I'd expect scum!him to get whatever easy lynch that he can especially with the knowledge that he might not last long enough to push lynches later.

[mutantdevle]

When you say 'kinda' is that just a figure of speech or are some of those reads your actual reads?

Some of those are my actual reads, yeah.

Okay. Well I'm not going to attempt to make that distinction beyond the obvious 1 because it probably just isn't worth the time and there's barely anything for me to go on for it.

[mutantdevle]

Yall can give me as much shit as you want but if I'm being trolled hard by scum then clearly what is wanted by scumteam is for me to be dragged into conversations I dont want about things that dont matter to prevent from uncovering the T R U T H

Unless fire is town in which case I'm just a dildo

Lol. Do you really think that scum would want to distract specifically you? Like if you think that's the case then you should be hard pushing your reads if scum really doesn't want you to talk that badly.

And yes, you are being a dildo. So maybe if you got your head out that arse you'd be able to see that FB is town.

[mutantdevle]

MariaR why would NK15 go after gamma if you and kokichi are easier?

Because if you can get a harder lynch off then you go back to the easy ones after. Kinda easy

Hey Kokichi, are you going to reply to my post where I have a really strong reason to suggest that you're lying about your claim?

[mutantdevle]

is everyone townreading elbirn or something?

Lol no

[mutantdevle]

Try children of Hurin if you want to check one out maybe?

Okay Gamma, I just checked this game out.

Why the fuck would you tell me to look at this game?

[mutantdevle]

@Maria/Kokichi do you think NK15’s play is similar to Excalibur? I kiiiinda feel that way and want a second opinion

So I looked at this game too and I don't understand how you think NK15's play here is anything like that game or how you'd even think his actions that game is a fair judgement of how he'd play as scum considering how few posts he had.

[mutantdevle]

@mod sorry, replace me

Aww. For what it's worth, you're 'half-assed' playing of this game is still more effort than what a lot of people care to do. It's a shame because you were enjoyable to play with. There's also other things that you've left unexplained but it's nothing too major.

[mutantdevle]

@Maria/Kokichi

do you think NK15’s play is similar to Excalibur? I kiiiinda feel that way and want a second opinion

Hell yes it's one of the main reasons I sr him but I couldn't say shit until now LOL

HOW? You really need to explain more than this because the only thing I can conclude from that game is that he's bad at fake claiming which I knew anyway.

[mutantdevle]

@Maria/Kokichi

do you think NK15’s play is similar to Excalibur? I kiiiinda feel that way and want a second opinion

Hell yes it's one of the main reasons I sr him but I couldn't say shit until now LOL

same. now lynch NK15.

You also need to explain yourself Mr Fake IClaim.

[mutantdevle]

Why the rush? This isn't like Varsoon's claim where he said he 'might' be confirmed IC at some point in the game, Kokichi is outright claiming that he can be confirmed IC tomorrow, so if he's lying, we can just lynch him with confidence tomorrow.

If I

know

they're lying about their claim, why wouldn't I want them dead today?

Like I'm not desperate for their lynch right now, but I'm not opposed to it in any way.

One thing we do have to consider though is why would scum claim IC that they claim they can activate during the night? Answer: to get themselves one more night. The next question would then be why is that one last night so important?

[mutantdevle]

Unless I'm misunderstanding something, Kokichi unlocked this role as a result of not making any night actions, so he didn't know he could be confirmed IC until the start of Day 2 right? Unless you have a better reason to invalidate his claim, I'm willing to give him the benefit of doubt for today.

First of all, I'm under the impression from asking the mod about my own quest that quests are day things and can't be completed during the night. Secondly, what night ability does Kokichi actually have that warrants a quest to not perform it huh? The primary role they've claimed to us only activates upon winning a minigame.

So they don't even have a night ability to even perform.

So does that mean that their quest is essentially "hey, wait until night 2 and then you get this for free!". Think about that, Kokichi is basically claiming that their role is to become an IC on day 2 for free on top of a role that benefits from being let win all the minigames. Does that not sound incredibly fucking sketchy? So the options of what's going on here are A) He is lying about his role, B) The only night action that he could possibly have in order to not perform one for the quest is the factional kill (which means he is lying about his role anyway), or C) The mod is bad at game design. It doesn't take a lot to see that Kokichi is lying here.