Mini Normal 2285: GM [game over]

[MathBlade]

The second night was to prop me up so I would do your bad push.

[MathBlade]

So I kinda want to put the idea out and see if it has merit based on reactions.

If it doesn’t have merit I back off.

[MathBlade]

I also think it's fire fwiw

so my dastardly plan was to no kill 2 nights. back up mathblade doc claim with a fake claim.
Then say someone is trying to frame u.

Got it.

I am a genius

I think your scum kill failed the first night.

The second night was a no kill to frame whoever you jailkept meaning that we would look at a Kitty or a Val. It’s only a matter of if you’re scum or not.

By hypothesizing I can get reactions

What happened last night then?

Should have said third night.

Second night not sure

Something doesn’t add up and my lunch break is over

[MathBlade]

Datisi setups are fun!

Anyone else who says otherwise is scum claiming.

[MathBlade]

MEEEHHHH

So you didn't think checking Scol on N1 was worth it. Or pooky/skitter on N2

This is a very unfortunate and convenient sequence of events.

Do you think that Ydra is scum?

You town?

[MathBlade]

math u knowing datisi setups makes me go ???? for all ur attempts at trying to figure out the setup now.

But the ??? Is fun

[MathBlade]

its fun until u let it absorb how u make reads.....
U should know better

You scum fire?

I love me a good puzzle

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Kittytacky

I cast kitty summoning noises.

Give your thoughts.

[MathBlade]

I just want to summon Kitty for thoughts. A vote works. No idea if she’s scum or maybe I think it *shrug*

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Unvote

adding UNVOTE: for the vote counter. ~D

[MathBlade]

I kinda want to hear ydrasse’s info. It could be scum didn’t think I had a shot and shot at FB?

Or FB is just lying and is scum in order to clear himself.

Yeah my eval of skitter depends on that info.

You need to claim

I'm an ascetic watcher. All mafias are ninjas so I tried to confirm TI or TP roles, to no avail.

N1 - pooky, nobody visited
N2 - Val89, nobody visited
N3 - Toto, nobody visited

I am useless.

Why did you not visit me who was an openly claimed TP?

[MathBlade]

Fair. Got some thinking to do.

[MathBlade]

I just want to summon Kitty for thoughts. A vote works. No idea if she’s scum or maybe I think it *shrug*

WHY DO PEOPLE KEEP THINKING I AM A GRIL

I am sorry for misgendering you sir.

[MathBlade]

So we lim Herta, if town we lim Skitter, if both town we NL, then ELO --- IDK but Val/Freedom atp? depends which claimed PRs are left I guess. If we lose we blame loss on herta/skitter for tunneling each other all game.

I don’t think I agree with this.

[MathBlade]

So we lim Herta, if town we lim Skitter, if both town we NL, then ELO --- IDK but Val/Freedom atp? depends which claimed PRs are left I guess. If we lose we blame loss on herta/skitter for tunneling each other all game.

I don’t think I agree with this.

Which part?

That Herta v Skitter is TVS/SVT for starters.

I think we finally hit the crux of the mechanics and I want to chew on it before going full steam ahead.

[MathBlade]

K, I guess let's decide who we flip today. I think I want to go in herta/freedom/val

I don't want to leave Ydra/Skitter uncheked till ELO

I want Val I think personally.

I think I want to see where Ydra/Skitter fall on one more flip.

[MathBlade]

Because I think Ydra+Skitter or Val+Freedom is where I am at.

[MathBlade]

Because I think Ydra+Skitter or Val+Freedom is where I am at.

Why is Val aligned with me?

More a PoE thing.

Ydra and Skitter likely share the same alignment. I just think it’s probably town because I don’t think if scum know Skitter was jailkept they link both players together because ydra claimed one shot there’s no mechanical reason not to elim. So with no juicy incentive to stay away a plan to elim there loses scum the game.

Instead both could have stayed quiet and came up with a better plan. Maybe it was scum being reckless but I doubt it.

If we don’t hit scum today I would support an elim on either as policy.

But it’s more likely just Val+1.

[MathBlade]

If scum are ninjas would that confuse your result ydra?

I'm not Ydra but I doubt that it would as Ninja only affects roles that are Tracker/Watcher-like.

Doesn't checker fall into that category?

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Checker

It does according to the wiki.

So nevermind on that.

It seems disloyal checker is kinda useless lmao

We should ask Datisi if that’s how he rules it.

There’s a paragraph that says it’s tracked like

[MathBlade]

My brain is hurting so I wrote a PM to Datisi

That’s easier than trying to do the calculations on limited sleep.

[MathBlade]

We will see what he says if he can answer it.

[MathBlade]

Okay so if Toto is truthtelling then

Ydrasse would receive a succeeded and checked [playername] on mafia.
And on town Ydrasse would receive a fail.

So either Ydrasse and Skitter share an alignment or scum no killed and FB blocked Ydrasse.

[MathBlade]

And since Toto is IC I am assuming Toto is truthtelling.

[MathBlade]

Okay so if Toto is truthtelling then

Ydrasse would receive a succeeded and checked [playername] on mafia.
And on town Ydrasse would receive a fail.

So either Ydrasse and Skitter share an alignment or scum no killed and FB blocked Ydrasse.

I'm not parsing this. I'm of course telling the truth about all mafias being ninjas, but what does my truthtelling have to do with this?


Why do they need to share alignment necessarily?

Assume Ydrasse town. Then it can be reasonably inferred that Ydrasse isn’t lying about the check and it’s result. The only way Ydrasse gets that result is Skitter town.

Assume Ydrasse scum. Ydrasse claimed one shot. Therefore in every possible world, we elim Ydrasse before Skitter. If Ydrasse scum Skitter town the fake claim was of no benefit as we probably elim Skitter. The fake claim only serves a benefit if we don’t elim either one which makes them the same alignment.

[MathBlade]

Can you just ask the mod to clarify the thing in thread?

I tend to not ask questions in thread to mods as generally they prefer them in PM.

If he answers in thread I have no problem copying my question and paraphrasing it.

[MathBlade]

My questions were that and town. If you still want the paraphrase let me know.

[MathBlade]

Ok, so if Ydra is town then:

1.1) Skitter is town.
1.2) Ydra got roleblocked
1.3) Skitter is scum ascetic

If scum!ydra

2.1) Ydra trying to save scum buddy skitter who got jk
2.2) Ydra trying to get town cred by innoing town!skitter.

If I remember the sequence of events was:

1) Ydra crumbed PR
2) Ydra got pressured to claim multiple times
3) On D3 everyone was alive
4) Crucially - Ydra crumbed "I have an inno", followed by "Skitter inno, kinda",

before

FB claimed jailkeeping Skitter.

I think 4 makes 2.2 less likely. But there is a wacky scenario where Ydra+FB are scumbuddies and planned all this. I have a feeling pooky needed to go on vacation and asked his team to bus him.

4 is misleading

4 was only AFTER the no kill announcement. So scum would know jailkept/no kill/hit FB before FB’s claim.

[MathBlade]

I think Ydrasse was over-blowing it somewhat to call herself 'self-resolving', particularly if one shot, but I do also think she is just town here.

Given the claims on the table, unless someone has some insight I'm missing, I see no reason it was so important for us to know of the existence of mafia ninjas as to need an informed IC if her claim isn't legit - nothing else interacts, as far as I can see.

I don't think I am so sure it's a legit inno on Skitter, however. I don't have much, if any, experience with normal balance considerations, but for the scum team to be only ninjas seems too town-sided to be legit even for my inexperienced sensibilities. Clearly they have some power, and ascetic, and therefore functioning as a false inno seems like a legit but 'complex' way to bring things back in balance.

That’s kinda why I scumread Fire. His play is Townie but I think they sacrificed the kill to elim Skitter in a scum FB world. I just can’t find his partner in that world. I suppose you + FB is possible.

I just think the inno is incredibly likely. We can always just have me doc Kitty and Kitty check if Skitter is ascetic and that world should be clear I think.

[MathBlade]

I kinda want to hear ydrasse’s info. It could be scum didn’t think I had a shot and shot at FB?

Or FB is just lying and is scum in order to clear himself.

Yeah my eval of skitter depends on that info.

You need to claim

I'm an ascetic watcher. All mafias are ninjas so I tried to confirm TI or TP roles, to no avail.

N1 - pooky, nobody visited
N2 - Val89, nobody visited
N3 - Toto, nobody visited

I am useless.

The only thing that gives me doubt is Kitty didn’t claim ascetic start of the game. Which I guess me healing Kitty won’t work but I still think Kitty checking Skitter is best possible result.

[MathBlade]

if kitty's an ascetic watcher than i think it raises the chance slightly of ascetic mafia? it feels like it mirrors if not having an active way to stop everyone from doing things? i not very good at setup spec so unsure if that tracks

This is one of those things that it’s hard to know without FB flipped.

If an ascetic scum exists then the no kills are either on who I doccd/FB jailkept or intentional no kill(s). There would be no reason not to send the ascetic mafia each kill.

[MathBlade]

Someone double check my understanding of how "macho" works, but that means that a Jailkeep would not act as a protective if they locked up Toto, correct?

Correct all protectives fail.

[MathBlade]

Well, at least that means there is a valid reason to make FB informed if town as well, in a "don't bother wasting your ability on the IC" way.

What makes you say FB is informed?

[MathBlade]

I just can’t find his partner in that world. I suppose you + FB is possible.

I think I am going to have to ask you to justify your scumread on me at this point.

I could sort of see why I might be wrongly suspected today in the sense that I was townreading, and thus avoiding the wagon on the only flipped scum, and I was involved in both town mislims, but I don't understand why you think I'm the only possible partner for a scum!fb.

You just feel slimy.

[MathBlade]

I'm not sure how that answers the question.

It’s pretty simple. You feel wrong.

FB is my mechanical read.

Brain read + gut read = good start.

[MathBlade]

K so here is my new wacky theory:

1) Skitter is a mafia ascetic ninja roleblocker. She tried to block Math.
2) Ydra is a mafia ninja. They shot FB.

No one is dead. So the know one of them must have gotten roleblocked. Ydra claims works regardless of which of them, which is why they can claim earlier than FB.

I'm just paranoid here because I feel Ydra's claim today was a bit... theatrical.

That wouldn’t explain no deaths.

If I was roleblocked then FB would be dead in that world.

[MathBlade]

v2.0

K so here is my new wacky theory:

1) Skitter is a mafia

ascetic

ninja roleblocker. She tried to block Math.
2) Ydra is a mafia ninja. They shot FB.

No one is dead. So the know one of them must have gotten roleblocked. Ydra claims works regardless of which of them, which is why they can claim earlier than FB.

I'm just paranoid here because I feel Ydra's claim today was a bit... theatrical.

p-edit: skitter got jkept so you didn't.

Doesn’t work. Ascetic is immune to everything but kills.
So Skitter would have jailkept me
So FB dies

[MathBlade]

yeah which is why removed ascetic in 2.0

That’s logically possible but I don’t find it possible.

I think Ydrasse claims more than 1 shot in that world.

Because eventually we elim Ydrasse here it’s a matter of when. Ydrasse then flips scum, then we question why the inno.

[MathBlade]

Don’t find it probable*

[MathBlade]

I’m just having trouble believing two town informed roles.

Like my mech brain is really struggling with Fire’s claim.

But if I don’t believe Fire then scum no killed twice which is even worse.

[MathBlade]

If we believe the claims.

I think the most natural course of action was doctor and watcher target me on N1, watcher learns doc is town 100%. JK targets elsewhere because he knows I'm macho.

Can the watcher ever see the JK?

I am ninja Doctor. That won’t work.

[MathBlade]

My head aches. Lets just lim herta+freedom.

I don’t really see them as scum though.

[MathBlade]

Think freedom might need to be looked at later too. Not sure.

What if we are making this too hard and scum shot IV twice?

VOTE: Freedom

[MathBlade]

Think freedom might need to be looked at later too. Not sure.

What if we are making this too hard and scum shot IV twice?

VOTE: Freedom

Wym?

I doctored IV N1 and N2 and Fire N3.

We assume scum shot me. But if fire claimed to block me and is scum Fire Freedom works too.

Because then IV would be the threat. That was his last D2 post.

[MathBlade]

Math, respectfully, I think the simpler solution is Fire/Freedom shot you down N2. Why would they not?

Because I am not a respected town player. I get mocked…a lot

[MathBlade]

Think freedom might need to be looked at later too. Not sure.

What if we are making this too hard and scum shot IV twice?

VOTE: Freedom

Wym?

I doctored IV N1 and N2 and Fire N3.

We assume scum shot me. But if fire claimed to block me and is scum Fire Freedom works too.

Because then IV would be the threat. That was his last D2 post.

I'm confused, werent you townreading fire yesterday for you not dying n2?

I was. But then I started looking at simpler answers since I don’t see how with the premises I had things added up.

[MathBlade]

What doesn't add up?

Mainly the lack of nightkill.

If we assume Skitter and FB not scum => scum shot FB (who I said I was protecting) or no killed. They could kill Toto. I don’t find this likely.

If we assume Skitter scum it’s with Ydrasse exactly => But then Ydrasse came up with a fake claim on D2 that would get her executed today or tomorrow, flip red, and then exe skitter.

Or Skitter is town FB scum who on N3 no killed as a gambit and on N2 went for IV => This world is an FB Freedom world. Freedom because that’s who IV suspected. But this also has the flaw of scum shooting IV over me. This is the least problematic as I had fake claimed one shot a jokey bit in case.

All the worlds don’t add up but FB Freedom is the least problematic.

[MathBlade]

Yeah or a Herta/Val or Herta/you (first list but it seems rare)

[MathBlade]

Why would you think fire blocked an nk on you if you had acted that night

This doesnt make sense at all to me

Because I did act that night.

I have been intentionally cagey about how many shots I do and don’t have which contributes to my SR of Fire.

I don’t know if I am blocked because the nature of doctor.

But I do know what I submitted.

[MathBlade]

iv could stand to go down into an iv tier but i feel like he's put his neck out in places where he really doesn't have to for people recently, he's not being looked at or anything and also he was potentially shot at (?) so
i feel better about kittytacky strictly on mechanical purposes and also my super early read, i feel like ascetic watcher makes sense but i wish we knew earlier about the ascetic part, i probably would move kt up if we had because it does come at a time where it's like... hmmm. but that's probably paranoia lol

If you think I am town then IV was shot at N1 or scum no killed which is uhhh

IV is almost certainly town.

[MathBlade]

If we assume Skitter scum it’s with Ydrasse exactly

Why?

Assume Skitter scum and Ydrasse fake inno. Then something messed with her checks.
If Skitter Ascetic there’s no reason skitter isn’t doing kills every night so 3 no deaths is excessive so that’s out.
Then the only way that works is if FB blocked Ydrasse as scum to prevent the “confirm”. But then scum no kill here is the only viable option. But scum no kill to frame scum doesn’t make sense because Skitter + FB aren’t hard bussing for cred. So this one is out.

So if Skitter is scum then it has to be with Ydrasse so I always flip Ydrasse first.

[MathBlade]

*she
Well fire and ydra are both claiming they think i'm town after their actions last night, which is kinda ??? to me

Like i certainly don't mind but something feels off here

Agreed.
I think that there's at least 1 scum in {you, Fire, Ydra}.

I don’t think there has to be

[MathBlade]

Quite honestly my shot is freedom in that pool and kinda is where I am at.

I think Kitty + one is possible. The invest would find the PRs that are needed to die.

[MathBlade]

Math, when I flip Town, who would you think scum is?

I would do VCA at that point. I would revisit this if a wagon on you picks up steam.

[MathBlade]

I have a work fire. Maybe VLA for the rest of the day.

[MathBlade]

That’s the main reason I can’t drop the Firebringer world.

But I think it’s more likely Firebringer isn’t a protective at all and wanted to frame someone.

I think Firebringer came up with that idea when he said I should be on him.

I have been keeping my shots close to the vest (for obvious reasons) but I think Fire’s plan was to frame Skitter.

[MathBlade]

I think the world in an FB scum world is that FB scum thought I was one shot, shot IV again the following night, they didn’t need to shoot me because they thought me VT.

Then when IV didn’t die and I am not dead, he needed me in his pocket, so he asked me to heal him.
Then scum intentionally no killed to frame Skitter not expecting the Ydrasse inno.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Firebringer

[MathBlade]

I think Freedom is scum purely based on gut. If we're looking int he wrong place being agreeable is a common scum tactic. I've done it before.

[MathBlade]

But i don't think Freedom scum thinks we have the cajones to elim Fire so it's a simple "townie" vote.

[MathBlade]

There's certain things mods tend not to do in 14 P Let's just say firebringer being JK is one of them given my role I just find it unlikely.

But maybe it's the angry orchard talking but I think a Fire elim would be well Fire

[MathBlade]

I mean 13 P I guess I can't count...Maybe 314 P Who is counting anyway XD

[MathBlade]

are we like 98%+ sure on Kt being town by mech? The all mafia ninja public info shit makes zero sense without there being a real town watcher right? Also scum wouldn’t claim a major non gated role like that I assume

Nope.

I am pretty sure one or the other is scum.

When I eventually die I think you’ll see why.

[MathBlade]

I think Freedom is scum purely based on gut. If we're looking int he wrong place being agreeable is a common scum tactic. I've done it before.

It’s so level zero I don’t think scum play level 0 they’re usually on level 1 or 2

Admittedly yes…I don’t think I am capable of level 1 or 2 while tipsy. Brain be like “nope I am outta here.” Except maybe for simple random shinies

[MathBlade]

Dude like yes. If you were in my shoes you’d be sus of the JK claim too man.

I am alternating between partners and you because you scum requires so weird things like ???

[MathBlade]

I don't think scum would have this kind of conniption fit.

Scum fire has before. Kinda numb to it. He does it as both alignments.

[MathBlade]

Facts usually more important.

This is an elaborate prod dodge brought to you by the holidays!

Not sure when I will be able to post but I will when I can

[MathBlade]

Still think elimming fire is the best way to go forward.

Willing to hammer a VT I scumread though

[MathBlade]

Even so we never flip Skitter without flipping Ydrasse.

[MathBlade]

Happy Holidays!

[MathBlade]

and all scum are ninjas
i think that points to kitty being town
(it doesn't fit with anything else and this is a really random claim for scum to come up with)

and i think math is town because:
* no other explanation for n1
* i don't think pooky looks aligned with math given their argment when math repped in

so let's start there

pedit mafia not shooting n1 is wild
like i've never even seen such a thing wild

I think it points towards Kitty scum mechanically. (It’s at odds with my playread)

Kitty’s role is to find the TPRs.

[MathBlade]

Mine can’t be found because Ninja but if Fire is town Kitty is likely scum.

If Fire is scum then Kitty is town.

[MathBlade]

@Val I am not railroading. I literally said who my faves are and who I am willing to hammer.

Skitter’s theory also requires me to no kill before I replace into the game?

So pretty sure that’s not it.

[MathBlade]

Granted I've had a very Merry Christmas, and I may feel different with a hangover, but it's seems about as plausible as unwnd, having decided to IV was townie enough to deserve protection, and having gotten a save from his pov, suddenly deciding the only read he felt different on from D1 was that IV wasn't as townie after all.

Also add in the fact that MB wasn't

only

softing doc, and the softs that Ydra was putting out prior to that point were pointing to protective enough for me to think she was about to claim doc:

I do also happen to think Ydrasse has been dropping heavy hints she knows why there was no kill. It's why I asked your opinion on her since you didn't appear to be accounting for it...

The reaction from her is odd, I'll grant you that.

...and it's something I think worth looking at.

In before someone is all "look, scum!val is trying to open the PoE", but fuck it, Mathblade has been trying to railroad this town since rep-in, and something isn't right here.

I was literally trolling to have the open memorable lmao.

I appreciate sus cover but I should flip before elo and explain why I sus FB so hard.

[MathBlade]

ydra can be scum but i think no-killing n1 is wild
but if that happened math has to be scum with her here

I doubt ydrasse is scum. Why inno you when it’s a free miselim (if you’re town)?

She could have picked anyone else if lying.

I am back to Fire + Skitter and Fire blocked Ydrasse I think

[MathBlade]

Oooh my PoE doesn’t want to elim me. I wonder why /sarcasm

@val89 you’re kind of misunderstanding kind of not. That line is a standard for win cons so that way if it’s ever X v X at the start of a day we don’t have to play the game repeatedly until town is dead when they have no way of winning. However in a scenario when it’s X v X+1 at night then we’d be reliant on a save or it’s GG.

[MathBlade]

There could be only one scum, aka you, and trading yourself for 2 Ml is good for your team. Even if we lim you first we can still yeet herta and freedom.

You could also be making this shit up so I correct you out of your own elim.

Finally, if you are town, we can’t afford to mlim all three of you when scum team could easily be skitter + claimed pr.

Like simple answer is put up or shut up.

If you scumread me, elim me now. You get IV almost certainly conf town and Fire conf scum.

I don’t believe FB blocked me. I think he blocked elsewhere and the team tried to kill IV again on N2

N3 was again elsewhere but an intentional no kill.

You’ll see on my flip why I don’t TR FB. That’s the easiest way.

[MathBlade]

I seriously think it’s FB + 1. Val is a spicy possibility

Herta is boring and is similar to recent completed game.

Freedom is meh. Not boring but not spicy just average.

If FB happens to be town, you’re probably looking at Kitty scum to find me and FB.

[MathBlade]

(That’s to the thread not toto)

[MathBlade]

Although Kitty would never find me so like it is just FB.

[MathBlade]

I guess Ydrasse + Skitter is possible it’s a bad fake claim but I don’t buy it.

All roads pretty much point to FB scum here

[MathBlade]

And scum!Fb didn't shoot you last night, because?

Gambit to try to conf himself.

[MathBlade]

I likewise don't see how Town!MB implies scum!FB.

ELI5?

My role explains why FB can’t be a town jailkeeper.

[MathBlade]

“You’ll see on my flip why I don’t TR FB. That’s the easiest way.”

bro what?

Exactly. Scum have two options whoever they are

Kill me or flip me.

So they can either put up or shut up.

[MathBlade]

Let's hear it then.

Infinite shot ninja doc.

There’s no way there’s a town jailkeep and an infinite shot doc without scum having a counter,

I see no evidence of such.

Ergo FB is scum.

[MathBlade]

Kill me or flip me.

or option 3: keep u around, because ur helping them during the day more than hurting them.

That option is the shut up = I am town.

[MathBlade]

Dude you were so scummy in that game.

I would rather not rehash things there.

I just got out of something stressful IRL and would not rehash something that’s going to just piss me off when you won’t acknowledge your play was bad.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Val89

Big long case about how I am scum.

Doesn’t vote me.

Didn’t follow put up or shut up.

Fire + Val

[MathBlade]

So he is scummy not for the case but because he didn’t vote you immediately after?

The case is horrible too but that’s the main simple reason.

[MathBlade]

Hey IV.

On a side note. Since you are here. Let me know if you can chat a bit. I’m a bit worried about you being so level headed. I can see the effort in you questioning people and reason with them. But feels a bit informed? Like you are really good at seeing the other persons pov. That’s why I’m worried about you.

I don’t think you get IV scum without me scum and I know I am not scum.

It’s possible IV scum didn’t kill every single night but I find that highly improbable.

I would sort me first if you’re worried.

[MathBlade]

Complexity is defined by the following collection of characteristics. The more of them that a game has, the more likely it should be labeled complex rather than simple. The reverse is true as well: the fewer of these are applicable, the more likely the setup ought to be labeled as simple rather than complex.

Having several roles with modifiers, especially modifiers that affect targeting (e.g. simple,

loyal

) or fundamentally affect the way one would play the role (e.g. announcing, weak)
Having some roles with several modifiers

Having a large proportion of non-vanilla roles in general

Having anything that could be construed as a

red herring

(e.g., two of the same town role, a backup or enabler without a main role, a neighborhood with only mafia, a miller without a cop, etc.)

Having complicated interactions between roles (e.g. multiple blocking roles that may affect each other, generally anything that might make a reviewer need to think twice about how it would work)

Having many roles that aren't seen as frequently in normal games
Anything else that would potentially defy the expectations of a player who's played normal games before

We check a lot of those boxes for sure.

am I a red-herring? >.<

Where did you get that definition?

[MathBlade]

Oh…so Fire can be town.

Ewww. There’s still a ridiculous amount of hurdles and unlikely but it’s at least possible

UNVOTE:

[MathBlade]

I have a work fire to handle. May be ghostly invisible.

[MathBlade]

vote count 4.08

with 10 votes in play, it takes 6 to make a decision. day 4 ends in (expired on 2022-12-30 17:30:00).

yeet

Herta [4]:

skitter30, KittyTacky, Firebringer, Val89

Freedom [2]:

innocentvillager, Herta

Firebringer [1]:

Freedom

Val89 [1]:

Toto

not voting [2]:

Ydrasse, MathBlade

mod notes

~ skitter30 v/la fridays/saturdays
~ freedom v/la from 24.12. to 1.1.
~ this is a mod note

flavour

Intent to vote wherever Toto or IV says.

I have had a rough work day and it will either stop or slam in a few minutes.

[MathBlade]

freedom spent a game recently relying a lot on wolf team for assistance and them basically coaching his play a bit idk how that would impact this game

Is that a recent game for which the scum PT is public?

Might be helpful to see how scum!freedom thinks.

It's Warrior Cats.

I will say that I think somewhere someone said Freedom was coached to victory and that is bullshit. Freedom is good scum. Just because I was in the PT after death does not mitigate 90% of that was freedom.

[MathBlade]

mmmmm
freedom spent a game recently relying a lot on wolf team for assistance and them basically coaching his play a bit idk how that would impact this game

Yeah this. No he didn’t. We guided him but he did well. Most assuredly.

[MathBlade]

@KT Tell me more on why Val is town?

@Math how does Freedom feel this game compared to his scum game? Has anyone played with town freedom?

Also, I still think that it could easily be Ydra+Skitter.

Ydra had been softing watcher ("

stares

at you until you understand"). She even softed it at IV, implying they knew they were visited by the doctor. Maybe just a coincidence?

My guess what happened if this is true is that Ydra+Skitter had to toss a coin on who does the killing since Fire had expressed suspicion on both slots the prior day. They chose wrong.

Ydra+Skitter were put in a tough place because if skitter is dead she had already softed a PR so probably would not make it alone to the end game. The gambit makes sense to try to save Skitter. Basically w/o Ydra's claim Skitter would be limmed already. And next day we would be asking Ydra to claim.

Not sure how they’d know given I am a ninja and this is normal unless the action was on IV but then I don’t think I would show up. Can you find me that post? Depending on it I might be willing to go Ydra.

[MathBlade]

Oh they’d know because IV didn’t die. Brain.exe is crashing

[MathBlade]

So yeah I think i’d rather end the day on ydra or skitter

IV wdyt?

I’d almost exclusively do Ydra before skitter

Don’t elim the inno before the “cop” (I know it’s not a literal “cop” claim but cop in effect)

[MathBlade]

VOTE: ydra

[MathBlade]

I don’t like the Herta wagon. I think mathematically (will verify later as rush job) a scum has to be on it somewhere. I also don’t like how a majority of the game isn’t working with a Toto + IV or hell if super paranoid Toto town block.

It feels wrong.

[MathBlade]

I don’t like the Herta wagon. I think mathematically (will verify later as rush job) a scum has to be on it somewhere. I also don’t like how a majority of the game isn’t working with a Toto + IV or hell if super paranoid Toto town block.

It feels wrong.

Well there’s currently some disagreement within the Toto IV town block so idk

Yeah but no one (well besides me) seems to be trying to resolve that conflict.

[MathBlade]

vote count 4.09

with 10 votes in play, it takes 6 to make a decision. day 4 ends in (expired on 2022-12-30 17:30:00).

yeet

Herta [5]:

skitter30, KittyTacky, Firebringer, Val89, Ydrasse

Freedom [2]:

innocentvillager, Herta

Ydrasse [2]:

Toto

, MathBlade

Firebringer [1]:

Freedom

not voting [0]:

mod notes

~ skitter30 v/la fridays/saturdays
~ freedom v/la from 24.12. to 1.1.
~ herta v/la through 31.12.
~ this is a mod note

flavour

I actually don’t have a solve.

Just from my POV Toto myself and IV are all likely town.

Assume 0 scum on the wagon and Herta scum.

This means the only scum would be Freedom.

Ergo if Herta is scum scum are bussing but it’s way more likely that scum dog piled Herta.

Similar to how I didn’t like the earlier elim because the town block wasn’t on it.

[MathBlade]

Maybe Flashwagon Val89?

[MathBlade]

IV wanna do skitter instead?

It seems really antitown to do Skitter before Ydrasse

[MathBlade]

Is there a reason we can’t flash wagon Val?

Sorry work issues can’t read the thread

[MathBlade]

I don’t really feel freedom scum for the VCA I laid out before

[MathBlade]

vote count 4.09

with 10 votes in play, it takes 6 to make a decision. day 4 ends in (expired on 2022-12-30 17:30:00).

yeet

Herta [5]:

skitter30, KittyTacky, Firebringer, Val89, Ydrasse

Freedom [2]:

innocentvillager, Herta

Ydrasse [2]:

Toto

, MathBlade

Firebringer [1]:

Freedom

not voting [0]:

mod notes

~ skitter30 v/la fridays/saturdays
~ freedom v/la from 24.12. to 1.1.
~ herta v/la through 31.12.
~ this is a mod note

flavour

I actually don’t have a solve.

Just from my POV Toto myself and IV are all likely town.

Assume 0 scum on the wagon and Herta scum.

This means the only scum would be Freedom.

Ergo if Herta is scum scum are bussing but it’s way more likely that scum dog piled Herta.

Similar to how I didn’t like the earlier elim because the town block wasn’t on it.

Like it stems from here.

If Freedom is scum without Herta then why not have taken the Herta likely miselim
If Freedom is scum with Herta that doesn’t explain any of the weirdness going on. :/

So like I don’t that situation at all so Val to me looks the most sus

[MathBlade]

Let's chop Ydra. I'm not 100% sure but that's what seems most logical to me at this point.

VOTE: Ydrasse

I don’t even know where my vote is so yay /sarcasm

Bug crunch sucks.

[MathBlade]

Brain is fried. Anyone have questions?

[MathBlade]

Maybe Flashwagon Val89?

Val is the least likely scum of the VTs. Herta > Freedom > Val.

Flip it and reverse it imho

[MathBlade]

Whoever stole my spoons give them back…spoon thief.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Freedom

[MathBlade]

Freedom any other thoughts on the game. Who is town, who is scum. If we flip you what should we do tomorrow?

I think you should lim in my PoE minus skitter.
Ydra's reasoning on the inno felt a bit sketchy.

Remind me your PoE?

#lazyMath

[MathBlade]

I’m going to be a stealthy ninja doctor and visit someone

[MathBlade]

I will go where I go tyvm

[MathBlade]

Now it’s starting to come together.

I have asked Datisi to see if I can act now or vanilla. I think it’s as suggested but wanted to check.

VOTE: Val

Val reads like outed scum who dislikes the setup.

I think there has to be scum in Fire/Val/Skitter.

I don’t think there is a scum between Kitty and me but a scum between Kitty and Fire.

I don’t think Herta is scum.

[MathBlade]

I don’t think there is a scum between Kitty and me but a scum between Kitty and Fire.

So you think fire is scum.

That’s my primary theory.

Mod did confirm I can still doc but no ninja anymore.

I doc’d IV to see which of the PRs scum would shoot and instead they shot Toto.

This tells me that of the PRs it’s most likely fire because scum would be scared of me potentially doccing IV.

So I think Fire and Val

[MathBlade]

Fine by me.

Then you and Fire die and gg we win.

[MathBlade]

This tells me that of the PRs it’s most likely fire because scum would be scared of me potentially doccing IV.

So why not shoot you?

Escape hatch. Need someone to push

[MathBlade]

The actual fake claim is from Fire or Kitty.

Both have good arguments.

But pushing Herta on day open is sus when Toto IV Freedom and myself were all off it.

Herta I don’t see flipping scum here.

[MathBlade]

Dude. His name is innocent villager. I was crumbing IV is my inno.

This is al just bluster and showmanship. If you really believed you were right none of that would be necessary.

[MathBlade]

It’s the same blustering I do as scum.

If you really believed you were right you’d just let what you said sit and speak for itself.

But instead you’re “Believe all this BS or I will scream at you from dead thread.”

You’re evoking fear to try to avoid a rational response which is that I am town.

Is it possible I am mistaken town? Of course. But if you’re telling me that at least one scum of not two wanted Herta dead and still arguing Herta scum that’s imho ridiculous.

[MathBlade]

vote count 4.09

with 10 votes in play, it takes 6 to make a decision. day 4 ends in (expired on 2022-12-30 17:30:00).

yeet

Herta [5]:

skitter30, KittyTacky, Firebringer, Val89, Ydrasse

Freedom [2]:

innocentvillager, Herta

Ydrasse [2]:

Toto

, MathBlade

Firebringer [1]:

Freedom

not voting [0]:

mod notes

~ skitter30 v/la fridays/saturdays
~ freedom v/la from 24.12. to 1.1.
~ herta v/la through 31.12.
~ this is a mod note

flavour

I actually don’t have a solve.

Just from my POV Toto myself and IV are all likely town.

Assume 0 scum on the wagon and Herta scum.

This means the only scum would be Freedom.

Ergo if Herta is scum scum are bussing but it’s way more likely that scum dog piled Herta.

Similar to how I didn’t like the earlier elim because the town block wasn’t on it.

Like it stems from here.

If Freedom is scum without Herta then why not have taken the Herta likely miselim
If Freedom is scum with Herta that doesn’t explain any of the weirdness going on. :/

So like I don’t that situation at all so Val to me looks the most sus

…

Look at this VC again.

Freedom = town like I said.

Even if you wish to argue incorrectly I am scum, then unless it’s me and IV staying off wagon which leaves loads more questions than it solves, you’re looking at scum wanting Herta dead.

So a Herta wagon = super bad idea.

[MathBlade]

Okay, but what has that got to do with me being blustering scum?

I don't want a Herta wagon, I want a me or you wagon.

You are blustering because you’re out of options:

You can’t miselim Herta because no matter what scum team you pick (short of me +IV) scum wanted Herta dead
You can’t miselim a different PR because then if they flip town I become clear and I know which PR it is. Plus I am spewed town with Toto’s flip.
You can’t bus your power PR because that only buys you a day and then we look at you and Herta for end game

You’re pretty stuck.

[MathBlade]

You can’t push Skitter without dealing with Ydrasse pseudo clear.

Like you literally have no one you can push.

So you’re desperate.

[MathBlade]

Nobody visited Val. Get Fire, I have an indirect guilty.

VOTE: Firebringer

Can you explain this please?

Fire said he’d visit no one. I don’t get how this is an indirect guilty. Explain it like I am 5 please.

[MathBlade]

And why would you check Val and not Toto?

[MathBlade]

Or me? Or Fire?

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Unvote

I am not convinced on the guilty claim but am willing to hear it out and see where people fall.

adding UNVOTE: for the vote counter ~D

[MathBlade]

Think about it, does it seem like town would do... this? Especially when they're being sussed?

Fire is an enigma wrapped in a riddle.

I don’t think answering that question is possible for me.

[MathBlade]

I'd ask for a reads list from skitter, kt and pooky, but I don't think skitter and kt will bother to fake one and I already know scum pooky can make one up at will.

I can buy Pooky death then skitter has to do the kill then KT is trying to find another PR.

That doesn’t explain the Ydrasse inno.

I am more at what makes sense by play requires the mechanics to be off.

And what makes sense by mechanics doesn’t jive with by play reads

[MathBlade]

Herta is literally demonstrated who scum wanted… so no

[MathBlade]

I’m sure there are examples of me avoiding a town wagon I’ve played for over a decade. I just don’t see the entire scum team avoiding the Herta wagon like you’re proposing.

It’s literally a repeat of the prior day when my entire town block was off the wagon and the elim not surprisingly flipped town.

From my POV a scum is absolutely on the Herta wagon.

[MathBlade]

Why you all have urge to come in here and state the obvious that KT is town
This was never in doubt.
Is someone hoping to blend in by giving the non take that KT is town?
No one is pushing KT. Y’all being clowns if ur town doing this

To be fair my likely solve is Val + KT/you

I am not actively pushing anywhere because I think scum will have enough rope just to hang themselves

[MathBlade]

And why shouldn’t any solves I do be taken seriously?

[MathBlade]

because ur solving using setup spec.
Thats why i say ur solves shouldn't be taken seriously.

So you’re ignoring where I have two solves
One based on mech
And one based on play?

[MathBlade]

because ur solving using setup spec.
Thats why i say ur solves shouldn't be taken seriously.

So you’re ignoring where I have two solves
One based on mech
And one based on play?

Whats your play based solve then

Val + KT

Val socially reads like a cornered scum who wants a protective gone.
Kitty didn’t know where I would protect so forced a Toto kill

[MathBlade]

Mechanically is Val + you

I think Val is just screwed because Skitter is inno unless Ydrasse/Skitter
Herta is inno based on last attempt to miselim Herta
So Val is the only “VT” left

[MathBlade]

are u only reading KT as scum by your theory of night actions.
That sounds like mech based arguments pretending its play.

What about KT actions says he is lying about what he did if ur going to say his day play is a fake

KT by day play said there was a guilty on you. But then when asked to explain it’s not one.

It was a day play designed to get a better foot hold than what reality doctates

[MathBlade]

vote count 4.09

with 10 votes in play, it takes 6 to make a decision. day 4 ends in (expired on 2022-12-30 17:30:00).

yeet

Herta [5]:

skitter30, KittyTacky, Firebringer, Val89, Ydrasse

Freedom [2]:

innocentvillager, Herta

Ydrasse [2]:

Toto

, MathBlade

Firebringer [1]:

Freedom

not voting [0]:

mod notes

~ skitter30 v/la fridays/saturdays
~ freedom v/la from 24.12. to 1.1.
~ herta v/la through 31.12.
~ this is a mod note

flavour

I actually don’t have a solve.

Just from my POV Toto myself and IV are all likely town.

Assume 0 scum on the wagon and Herta scum.

This means the only scum would be Freedom.

Ergo if Herta is scum scum are bussing but it’s way more likely that scum dog piled Herta.

Similar to how I didn’t like the earlier elim because the town block wasn’t on it.

Like it stems from here.

If Freedom is scum without Herta then why not have taken the Herta likely miselim
If Freedom is scum with Herta that doesn’t explain any of the weirdness going on. :/

So like I don’t that situation at all so Val to me looks the most sus

…

Look at this VC again.

Freedom = town like I said.

Even if you wish to argue incorrectly I am scum, then unless it’s me and IV staying off wagon which leaves loads more questions than it solves, you’re looking at scum wanting Herta dead.

So a Herta wagon = super bad idea.

Like you’re five again FB.

I swear times like this you feel scum because you either are town not reading or just scum

[MathBlade]

U said KT is scummy by PLAY.
When we say play we mean what he has done and or said during the day, you referred to the night actions.
So I go immediately 'how and what about his claimed actions does this equal scummy' are u saying he tried to move u onto himself to waste ur action? Like is that the scummy part to u? What is it?

Faking a guilty is scummy play.

Trying to figure out what I am doing at night is day play.

Like I don’t get your point or question here.

[MathBlade]

So herta can't be scum because otherwise scum were bussing herta.
I don't see why scum can't possibly buss herta but fine.

They wouldn’t gain anything from doing so.

My PoE is all on the wagon so it’s highly unlikely Herta is scum.

[MathBlade]

Like realistically assume Herta flips scum there.

Does that make you scumread IC? No
Does that make you scumread IV? No
Does that make you scumread me? Maybe but realistically no
Does that make people scumread Freedom? Possibly but probably not since Freedom was on holiday

So realistically people would look for the busser

[MathBlade]

herta would be dead weight in the scum eyes so theres nothing to gain by defending him is how i would look at it.
and also if herta flipped scum, i am very sure its ydra bussing.

I don’t really see that though. Socially Ydrasse would be backed into a corner.

On day before ELO we always elim Ydrasse to confirm Skitter.

Ydrasse would have to socially cause a smart mechanic town to not elim her and I don’t see that happening.

It also doesn’t explain the no kill either.

[MathBlade]

I think Val is just screwed because Skitter is inno unless Ydrasse/Skitter
Herta is inno based on last attempt to miselim Herta
So Val is the only “VT” left

Val has already claimed scum. You believe me, apparently, so why aren't you voting?

I'm not annoyed, I'm pointing out the inconcrugity between saying I'm both mechanically scum, and socially, and yet not moving towards my lim.

It is as if he wants to discredit me, but is hoping the lim actually ends up elsewhere. Wonder why that is?

Oh no.

I hope the elim ends up on you and I am working towards it.

I am just not pushing. I am slowly explaining why.

[MathBlade]

It also doesn’t explain the no kill either.

it actually perfectly does.

Scum tried to kill Skitter because she was most adamant on scum herta.
Ydra went to perform the kill.
I jailkept skitter, so ydra decided to immediately claim a "possible inno" in the event i jailkeeped her so she could win out in anyway that it occured that she wouldn't be instant guiltied. If i claimed i jailkept Ydra, she oculd say skitter is unconfirmed. If i claimed jailkeep on skitter, she can pretend she has a good inno.

It makes so much sense to me.

Yeah I don’t see that. Let’s assume you didn’t jailkeep Skitter and Skitter dies.

Herta and Ydrasse lose due to powers. They can’t kill and can’t elim

They just lose.

Ydrasse scum I don’t think ever makes that kill.

[MathBlade]

Or how about we don’t?

[MathBlade]

Well i'm not voting val amd i'm not convinced it's fire so who should i vote ?

Kitty or Ydrasse

[MathBlade]

Kinda having a hard time seeing why scum-her decides to lolfake that result on me

Pedit indeed

I don’t get why town her fakes a guilty.

And she did whether she says that’s what it is or not.

[MathBlade]

AFK blood game starting

[MathBlade]

Be very sad and rethink my entire existance, but i don't think we live in that universe

I don't know who the third is rn
But i think it's in {fire math ydra}

I'm not following the point abt town her faking a guilty ?

Kitty faked a guilty on fire. I don’t see why town kitty does that.

[MathBlade]

Be very sad and rethink my entire existance, but i don't think we live in that universe

I don't know who the third is rn
But i think it's in {fire math ydra}

I'm not following the point abt town her faking a guilty ?

Kitty faked a guilty on fire. I don’t see why town kitty does that.

First of all Kitty is He

Second I was talking about Ydra which is why I was confused by that

I was talking Kitty saying Fire was a guilty.

[MathBlade]

Be very sad and rethink my entire existance, but i don't think we live in that universe

I don't know who the third is rn
But i think it's in {fire math ydra}

I'm not following the point abt town her faking a guilty ?

Kitty faked a guilty on fire. I don’t see why town kitty does that.

First of all Kitty is He

Second I was talking about Ydra which is why I was confused by that

I was talking Kitty saying Fire was a guilty.

Yes I didn't consider the fact that he could have run out of shots so I thought it was a guilty. Even then I think it's weird that he only brought that up now like it's some kind of dodge.

Sorry sir

[MathBlade]

Me neither.

I feel it’s obviously not Herta but I think Herta is the only elim that’s viable today so it’s awkward.

[MathBlade]

2 things:

First, Mathblade says he is fine with today being a gladiate, and will result in a town win. Both his solves have me as scum. He has other people willing to vote me. He has voted for me to day - but then unvoted, and in doing so made Herta, someone he says is obviously not scum, the leading wagon. We know given the lines drawn today that at least one person, maybe more, is going have to compromise. He makes my own wagon less viable, and the Herta one more likely to end up the compromise, while complaining about that state of affairs.

Secondly:

By saying Herta is the only viable lim today, he implies Ydra is not viable. That's one that looks like it might be a viable compromise too, but not to math - despite math arguing - TODAY - that we always flip Ydra on the day before ELO. Isn't that today?

No I don’t have anyone willing to vote you.

Literally everyone is defending you.

And no I don’t think Ydrasse is viable.

Anytime anyone discusses another slot Herta comes up

I feel like I have explained Herta town to death and it just keeps coming up and no one refutes the idea of scum having to want the elim and Herta being scum. It’s just really illogical to me.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: FB

Maybe?

[MathBlade]

i mean at this point im pretty sure scum want to save herta either because he is scum or they think it looks bad to lim town him for....reasons i guess

Indeed

who are the scum trying to save Herta? (@ both Fire and skitter) Math and me...?

You know that feeling you can’t quantify

I feel it here and I can’t explain it and it infuriates me

[MathBlade]

Meh I just have been having 13+ hour days most days.

It’s difficult to get anyone to vote in my PoE not just my top scumread

So I don’t really have a “plan” or “strategy” more just seeing what scum do and see if it’s right.

[MathBlade]

My willing to vote pool is Val KT or Fire

I don’t see anyone else as scum

I have work fires to deal with

[MathBlade]

Yeah I am pretty checked out. The only player in my PoE that could be elimmed is you.

No one is really selling me anything towards me changing my mind out of Val/KT/Fire.

So yeah…

[MathBlade]

Yeah I am pretty checked out. The only player in my PoE that could be elimmed is you.

No one is really selling me anything towards me changing my mind out of Val/KT/Fire.

So yeah…

Val has been trying to get u to vote him all day and u scumread him
You been distinctly ignoring him.
Also I don’t think u can be sold on anything

I did vote Val earlier. No one scumread him. Moving off you means a tr just dies.

I can either have a 50/50 shot at flipping scum or 0% shot. I will take 50%

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Skitter

Looks like just a bad fake claim from Ydrasse.

Kitty died because scum couldn’t have me confirmed as well as my doc target FB.

[MathBlade]

And IV would also be confirmed.

I think this is wrap?

[MathBlade]

plot twist:
i had another shot, i jailkept herta.
Herta confirmed town.

So skitter i got questions for u

At least I feel validated that Herta was town so not entirely bad so progress!

[MathBlade]

So maybe just trust myself when I think it’s Pooky skitter lmao

[MathBlade]

no tinfoil that im fake claiming.
kind of surprising.

Doesn’t make sense with you bussing your partner that day. No reason to be pivotal vote.

I think scum messed up by not killing me.

There were exactly four worlds:
1) I die which hooray
2) I live and Kitty dies and Skitter is scum
3) I live and Kitty dies and scum no killed (which against Kitty town is silly)

So sure it’s possible you’re scum but then I die tonight and we figure out who the last scum is by PoE.

If scum don’t kill me and don’t kill IV or you only then do I consider odd worlds.

You and I both have innos at this point so whoever of us dies confirms the other.

So in short you might be scum possibly but will cross that bridge if it happens

[MathBlade]

4) I live and Kitty doesn’t die and Kitty confirms me or scum claims and since Kitty isn’t scum Kitty confirms me

[MathBlade]

Val89, innocentvillager, Herta, Firebringer, MathBlade, skitter30

In short assume you’re scum we miselim Skitter and kill me.

Then tomorrow we are at Val, you, Herta, IV. You have to kill Herta to keep your claim alive.

Final three is confTown IV deciding between you and Val which I trust IV on.

[MathBlade]

If I die do due dilligence on if IV no killed N1 don’t cross immediately . I don’t think IV no kills there but I am unsure what balances the setup unless scum are informed or used a strongman shot and happens to be on Skitter which sucks that they didn’t use it when she was jailkept.

[MathBlade]

To be clear I think Skitter wins the game and my initial reads were right but just in case

[MathBlade]

fwiw i do kinda wish the scol slot had been repped first ...

So you and Pooky? *sads* rough day for you?

Called it I think?

[MathBlade]

well i dont see any reason to delay i guess
VOTE: Skitter

Val89 is town by play
IV is townfirmed by math no matter math alignment
mathblade town by play
Herta is confirmed town.

Realistically i would have to be wrong on Val89 or Mathblade which i don't think i am on either.
POE it is skitter.

Ydra made bold move confirming her, don't know why but it was interesting.
Should have pushed to elim ydra after that fake clear more. I read ydra upset as townie and got cold feet. Rip

Ydrasse probably didn’t want to play the game solo but didn’t want to give other checks.

[MathBlade]

Ydra self-hammered within a minute of Skitter saying she was considering voting Ydra.

If a Skitter-Ydra scum team wanted to end the day before town had time to coordinate, was that such a nessacary risk, particularly given how the fake claim tied the two together 2 days ago?

@FB: Is your working theory back to skitter trying to make the kill the night she was jailed and Ydra faked the check?

Ydra as scum does it to deny conversation
Skitter as scum does it to avoid looking like she’s cutting off the day.

[MathBlade]

Hey sorry busy day

VOTE: fire
I think you're scum with herta at this point

4 scum in a mini normal?

[MathBlade]

@FB: Is your working theory back to skitter trying to make the kill the night she was jailed and Ydra faked the check?

yeah

Mine too. Fire guess we’re scum together with Herta. 5 scum in a mini normal lol

[MathBlade]

Really the simple answer is skitter.

But I guess other possibilities exist. Scum ydra townchecks scum skitter. That just seems messy. Made for this moment. But scum ydra townchecking town skiter, and scum fire townchecking town herta. That seems sexier. Also made for this moment. And much more worthy of scum in this game.

Quite honestly we need to flip Skitter today.

If she’s town she can leave us last reads and we can consider weird worlds.

[MathBlade]

I kinda have learned not to do that as setups are not balanced usually in my opinion.

If I have to guess I would go strongman.

[MathBlade]

Like if we assume Skitter town

IV -> Deliberate no kill N2 possible
Fire -> Deliberate no kill N2 and N3 and “clears” Herta very unlikely
You -> Possible as you pinged me earlier
Herta -> Clear from fire

So like no matter how this shakes out a confirmed town will be in final three and Skitter is just policy.

[MathBlade]

did kitty ever explain why he didn't watch u NIght 2?
it was kind of obvious u would be a target.

I think I was outed ninja doc at that point.

I forget when I stopped memeing exactly and went more serious.

[MathBlade]

I kinda have learned not to do that as setups are not balanced usually in my opinion.

If I have to guess I would go strongman.

There may well be a range, and it might be your opinion that setups usually land in the not balanced side, but I am not about to ignore a significant piece of the puzzle completely - there needs to be at least

something

feasible.

I don't see how strongman fits. The kill was stopped by a JK.

In fact, was it not yourself who argued on an earlier day that the lack of night kills indicated Skitter was most likely not being sent?

There’s a lot possible. To me what’s most likely is a setup that is imbalanced and Skitter is scum.

If it’s not then it’s not and I just die and others can solve it. I have a work project I have been up for a long time on and brain juices just aren’t gonna fire for some complex world.

[MathBlade]

What role are u suggesting?

I'm not suggesting any role either - I think shes VT and one of you or math are faking, and the setup looks a lot more reasonable when you move one or the other of you to the red side of the scale.

I think you know 3x ninja goons is absolutely ludicrous, to the point Skitter can't make sense as scum.

Or maybe just maybe Skitter isn’t a goon.

There are possible worlds Skitter isn’t scum. I already highlighted them.

They’re just so far improbable as to not be a concern.

If Skitter flips town and I live (both worlds I doubt) then I will care.

[MathBlade]

What if it is 4 scum but just Val and Skitter? And Val is acting on inside knowledge?

[MathBlade]

Gg all

I really think scum needed a big brother or something to make that level of power work.

Then they can submit kills after.

Nice game all.

[MathBlade]

At least my reads are improving and wasn’t dumpster fire.

Thanks to the scum team for sticking it out.

[MathBlade]

I'm such a clown.

GG everyone; and thanks for modding, Datisi.

You’re not a clown I have been there.

[MathBlade]

I appreciate you and Ydrasse being good sports and finishing out. That’s been rare in some games.

[MathBlade]

I understand the complaints. You all did really good almost getting Herta elimmed.

I think I did better than my usual town well uhm fires

I would love what I improved on if you have anything?

[MathBlade]

Yeah agreed town was a bit too op. Specially the super
Macho unkillable IC. Why no one is mentioning that?

I am not because the horse imho is dead.
The balance was pretty bad.

I don’t see the point in dissecting unless Datisi wants that. At some point criticism might pass constructive. His modding was good.

Thanks Skitter for the advice

[MathBlade]

I forget what the tell even is

[MathBlade]

So I am always scum then My jokedar is busted

[MathBlade]

I would love to see the scum PT if you can but I understand not sharing it if it’s too salty.

I think D2 was pretty good until the possible alignment share with Pooky. I think if you had distanced or not pinged me I think you get a kill possibly. I think not getting kills as scum can be brutal unless you play around it intentionally

[MathBlade]

To answer your question skitter I claimed because hard economics

Me as conf town + IV as conf town means two kills get eaten where scum can’t kill PRs and usually my ability to town sucks so forcing scum to kill me = protown