Mini 2307 | Songs from Glee! | Endgame

[OopsieDaisy]

first

[OopsieDaisy]

VOTE: Elements

as is tradition <3

[OopsieDaisy]

Oops

oh hey it's a me reference poggers

[OopsieDaisy]

Meow! While I know most of this list, I don't

know

most of this list well enough.

Yea I think the only person on this list I've played with before is Elements, so it should be a lot of fun getting to know everyone!

[OopsieDaisy]

You're not sheeping me, are you?

What's wrong with sheeping?

[OopsieDaisy]

You're not sheeping me, are you?

What's wrong with sheeping?

In general sheeping is Scummish, but I was being tongue-in-cheek since we're in RVS.

I think sheeping can be scummy but if I've got someone following my reads/votes the last thing I'm gonna do is complain ykno

[OopsieDaisy]

FWIW I love Day 1's, but I think that's just cause I like chatting lol

[OopsieDaisy]

i think im chucking iamveryhappy in the town bin, voting a mod feels like a town trait to me from a player that joined in april

Can you elaborate on this for me? I don't follow 1) why voting a mod would feel townie and 2) why the join date matters? Is it just an attitude thing that you've observed from newer players?

I guess I can see the world where like, if you're a new player picking targets to vote a mod would be the most intimidating vote in an isolated world.

[OopsieDaisy]

I kinda just answered my question in the same post I made it lmao

[OopsieDaisy]

Day 1 gives me anxiety

How come?

[OopsieDaisy]

Scumhunting is hard

That's understandable, do you find that it becomes easier later into the game and if so why do you think that is?

[OopsieDaisy]

For me, I have more information the later the game goes and so I can build an actual case without going crazy.

Ahh I see. I have the opposite, the more info there is in the game the more worlds open up and I've seen myself lose myself in my own paranoia in some late game situations. Whereas early on I feel like I can make sense of everything a lot easier.

[OopsieDaisy]

Not to say I'm incapable of a good late game, it's just one of those things I need more practice with cause I've slowly been improving but the slowness is because those situations don't rise up often.

[OopsieDaisy]

pls no wallpost

town

scum

VOTE: elements

Parachute

Is parachute a mafia term or am I missing something lmao

[OopsieDaisy]

want to setup solve someone? I'm clearly incapable of doing it on a kindle

I'm not rly a mechtalk person but are we sure the theme/flavour even has a link to the setup in the first place?

Like I don't rly see the use in speculating about the set-up at the start of Day 1 when none of the games I've played in or read so far in the normal queue have had a noticeable link between flavour and roles. Albeit this is just from my experience someone correct me if I'm wrong here.

[OopsieDaisy]

want to setup solve someone? I'm clearly incapable of doing it on a kindle

How do you expect to “setup solve” a closed setup with zero info?

Also, why is this what you want to focus on?

This is the 2nd time Penguin basically says what I wanted to say before I say it, so I think I've found my first townlean :3

(Not that they're particularly hard conclusions to come to "sheeping isn't necessarily scummy/setup solving doesn't seem useful here" but they're something)

[OopsieDaisy]

I'm just trying to do something that's useful for d1 because you guys are just chatting for now while I'm actually trying to solve

The chatting is a lot more useful for us Day 1 than mechtalk. Not only do I think that early game mechtalk is NAI (so it doesn't rly help us sort players) and something I've seen scum players hide behind to avoid having to interact with the game, but the chatting has already started to generate genuine reads from people. That's definitely useful.

Trying to figure out IAVH's slot is gonna be difficult because I'm getting the vibe I'm gonna disagree with him a lotttt this game, and his defensive stance on the mechtalk thing is understable but also pings me. However I've actually read a previous game of his in mini norm 2303 and I got those same vibes reading his slot from afar that game, and he was town.

[OopsieDaisy]

I'm just trying to do something that's useful for d1 because you guys are just chatting for now while I'm actually trying to solve

The chatting is a lot more useful for us Day 1 than mechtalk. Not only do I think that early game mechtalk is NAI (so it doesn't rly help us sort players) and something I've seen scum players hide behind to avoid having to interact with the game, but the chatting has already started to generate genuine reads from people. That's definitely useful.

Trying to figure out IAVH's slot is gonna be difficult because I'm getting the vibe I'm gonna disagree with him a lotttt this game, and his defensive stance on the mechtalk thing is *understable but also pings me. However I've actually read a previous game of his in mini norm 2303 and I got those same vibes reading his slot from afar that game, and he was town.

EBWOP: Understandable not understable lmao

[OopsieDaisy]

One thing I just remembered looking at 2303 was that KKFC was also in the game! They were scum, and iirc KKFC did a great job chilling and avoiding suspicion by playing a passive game/not really rocking the boat. Looking at the game right now, I'm seeing similarities to that playstyle, so it seems like a good place to put my vote for now.

UNVOTE: Elements
VOTE: KKFC

[OopsieDaisy]

so... you're saying chatting is best
ew
I guess I'm going to make you scared of me then
Here's two truths and a lie
1. I'm so good at mafia I got two cop inspects in a row
2. I've once gotten second in the country for olympiad maths
3. I have no endurance, I can't even run 100 metres

Tbf, if you got injured after the olympiad worlds 2 and 3 both exist lol

[OopsieDaisy]

@IAVH you were also in 2303, do you think my read on how KKFC played the game is accurate?

[OopsieDaisy]

@IAVH you were also in 2303, do you think my read on how KKFC played the game is accurate?

as I previously said I'm not good with resolving people and pmeta but I feel it's mostly accurate

sweet, thanks

[OopsieDaisy]

so... you're saying chatting is best
ew
I guess I'm going to make you scared of me then
Here's two truths and a lie
1. I'm so good at mafia I got two cop inspects in a row
2. I've once gotten second in the country for olympiad maths
3. I have no endurance, I can't even run 100 metres

Tbf, if you got injured after the olympiad worlds 2 and 3 both exist lol

so which one is false?

omfg it was olympiad maths wait i'm so silly.

i think you really wanted to tell us that mafia fact about you so 1 would be true. maths people and mafia people have a lot of overlap in my experience (the mafia group i play in is like 50% maths students lol) so gonna guess 2 is true.

i'd like to lock in 3 as the false statement please <3

[OopsieDaisy]

so... you're saying chatting is best
ew
I guess I'm going to make you scared of me then
Here's two truths and a lie
1. I'm so good at mafia I got two cop inspects in a row
2. I've once gotten second in the country for olympiad maths
3. I have no endurance, I can't even run 100 metres

Tbf, if you got injured after the olympiad worlds 2 and 3 both exist lol

so which one is false?

omfg it was olympiad maths wait i'm so silly.

i think you really wanted to tell us that mafia fact about you so 1 would be true. maths people and mafia people have a lot of overlap in my experience (the mafia group i play in is like 50% maths students lol) so gonna guess 2 is true.

i'd like to lock in 3 as the false statement please <3

hah tricked ya
it's 1
I landed 2 conspiracy thorists in a row though

danggg you're unreadable wpwp

[OopsieDaisy]

@IAVH you were also in 2303, do you think my read on how KKFC played the game is accurate?

as I previously said I'm not good with resolving people and pmeta but I feel it's mostly accurate

alsoalso if you feel my read is mostly accurate, is there a reason you're still voting your RVS vote and not on KKFC?

[OopsieDaisy]

It's pretty accurate, but I don't think it means that much on Page 4. There are a couple of people in this game I've played with before as both scum and town, so I don't think it would be fair to assume I wouldn't change my meta to adjust for that. If I were you, I would have probably held onto that to try to get a better read later in the Day.

I wish I had the self-control needed to hold onto info like that and use it to create a stronger read later on in the day, but alas, I do not.

Question for Daisy, would you believe me if I told you I'm trying to merge my honestly-quite-distinct-as-of-two-completed-games town and scum metas?

I have never seen your town meta, so I don't have the full info needed to properly judge this. I can see why you'd want to do this tho, having distinct metas can destroy your scum game so blending the two can be necessary, it's just not something that's gonna make you seem town to people who know your scum meta.

Whether or not this is bang on for this game, idk. I think town!kkfc is telling the truth here and scum!kkfc is saying this to weaken any meta-based accusations against them in this game.

[OopsieDaisy]

I get the sense we've had a lot of kind of waffly talk.

@Oopsiedaisie, which of the two do you think KKFC is right now?

Leaning scum, hence my vote there right now. I'm not gonna disregard my meta read just because the party has acknowledged it's a good read and has given a decent excuse as to why they're playing in their scum range. Ultimately they're still playing in their scum range.

[OopsieDaisy]

Is it purely a meta read?

Mostly so. Was also a bit of a reaction test, wanted to see if KKFC responded to the push in a way that felt +townie, but so far I'm not seeing anything that has convinced me I need to hop off the wagon.

[OopsieDaisy]

I get the sense we've had a lot of kind of waffly talk.

Do you think that waffly talk is bad for the game?

[OopsieDaisy]

I mean, you're trying to use a meta read on Page 4. I'm not really sure what you think the appropriate response or discussion would be. Here are all my posts by Page 4 from the game you've read.

Hey everyone, I'm new to forum mafia but I've played on epicmafia and in person before. I'm super excited to play with y'all!

VOTE: VOTE: Cook

Of course a Page 4 meta read doesn't mean I've got a super confident read on you, it is Page 4, but pressuring slots with these kinda wagons is important to create discussions like these in the first place. Gives people something to make reads on and react to and that's 100% good for the game.

I can guarantee if I'm still on your wagon by the end of the day, it won't just be because I think I've got a good meta read. It's just a starting point from which my read can develop.

[OopsieDaisy]

Sure, but saying I failed the reaction test when it was pretty obviously one seems a little harsh, right?

It's harsh but in order to create pushes that move us out of RVS, the reasoning sorta has to be harsh unless someone does some crazy scummy stuff early on, which hasn't rly happened here. My meta read is weak but it's something that does point to a scum!kkfc world and I like the idea of letting this wagon sit for a bit and seeing how the game evolves around it.

[OopsieDaisy]

I get the sense we've had a lot of kind of waffly talk.

Do you think that waffly talk is bad for the game?

I think so tbh - although whilst I'm on V/LA I've not had much time to really affect that which should be coming to an end tomorrow.

Ahh, I don't think you're gonna like my playstyle very much then lol. I'm quite the waffler.

[OopsieDaisy]

Why Delta?

143 feels like a scum post. 123 also looks kinda LAMIST. At the moment I'm perceiving IAVH as an "easy target" so I don't like Delta's vote there. And Delta's getting back from V/LA today so I thought it'd be a good time to drop some pressure

123 is a KKFC post, did you mean to quote another post there?

[OopsieDaisy]

who asked me about oopsie? at work and have adhd sorry

oh hey a fellow adhder, nice

[OopsieDaisy]

My current reads that aren't null:

PP - Town lean, early interactions showed em looking at the game in a similar way to me, and naturally I'm going to trust someone who's on the same page. (Wrote this before the new posts, me likey the new posts on a first look)
IAVH - Town lean that comes down to meta reasons and being cooperative with my questioning VS being uncooperative w/ Nurse & El. The personality present here is consistent with the IAVH I read in 2303.
Elements - Town lean. Elements posting with an agenda is scum, Elements posting without one is town. I'm yet to see an agenda.

KittyTacky - Scum lean, feel like nothing he's said this game so far has meant all that much bar the stuff reading IAVH as townie, but even that is not rly a controversial opinion in the current gamestate. Should be worth noting he said he usually stays on the sidelines in Day 1 so maybe it's just that playstyle that's giving me the ick on this slot, but I'd like to see some proactivity here at some point soon.
KKFC - Scum lean, meta read seems good from me but making KKFC aware of it early means KKFC now has to make a decision regarding their playstyle. Still think keeping my vote here is best for now.

[OopsieDaisy]

i mean sorry for the misunderstanding but a meme that just says "both" makes me feel like you weren't interested in engaging that much but we also havent played together too much lately so

[OopsieDaisy]

Intent to hammer

UNVOTE: KKFC

As much as KKFC is my strongest scum read right now, I like seeing how a day develops and it wouldn't surprise me if El actually hammered.

P-edit: Ohh someone else unvoted for me, I'm fine staying on the wagon now.

VOTE: KKFC

[OopsieDaisy]

Don't have the time to properly read through everything right now, but looks like the KKFC push has now given us some proper content to work with. I'm happy with what it's achieved and for now since I'm gonna be afk for a bit, gonna UNVOTE: KKFC and park my vote on VOTE: Kitty.

I want to wait until I have had the time to properly read the Skygazer/PP/KKFC interactions before I commit to the KKFC wagon again.

[OopsieDaisy]

Eh, I can see why you scumread for that, but it's very much an intentional decision.

I'm not interested in giving away my reads this early, nor do I care about advancing the game state if I think that the current one is good enough for town. If you would like me to elaborate on my philosophy, I can, but as an example, I think I get more towards solving the game if I can keep disscussion on why Daisy and iavh think a meta read on me is relevant by Page 4 than if I move on to a different topic.

I guess to clarify my position, advancing the game state is generally good, but I don't really see what giving my reads this early would really do. We have a lot of time left in the day to gather information and I don't think there's been enough time in the game for me to have a significant change in opinion on people's alignments yet.

Your disinterest in wanting to give away reads pings me super hard. Personally I'd consider that kinda anti-town, because by not placing your reads under the scrutiny on the group, it becomes a lot harder for players to get a read on your slot in the first place. I think this attutide helps your slot, but hurts the group as a whole, but I'll concede that's partly my opinion just because of my very open playstyle.

Like idk, we could sit and talk for pages as to whether giving a meta read out Page 4 is optimal, but I don't see the use in that when there's much better discussions to be had within the game.

In 255, you're scumreading me for jumping to assuming timing tells refer to possible mafia partners? To be honest, I thought this was the dominant takeaway from looking at people's timing in their posts.

Just as a fun teaser, Daisy do you want to answer why it would be reasonable for me to think this?

I don't think I 100% understand what you're saying here, but I can talk about timing tells if you want? I'm not someone who considers timing to be a massive tell, at least on a micro scale. I liked PP's burst of posts like Skygazer did, but moreso for the enthusiastic gamesolvy energy I saw rather than because it was a burst of posts fired out quickly if that makes sense?

(if not and i've completely misunderstood what a timing tell is can someone tell me lol)

so why aren't you voting?

Well, I've been pretty busy defending myself. Yes, I could have voted my strongest scumread and use my vote as an indicator of my reads but I was hoping to finish this conversation thread before moving to offense.

Whilst I didn't like the first post in the ones I've quoted, this does make sense. Some players do definitely have that defence/offence mode thing, myself included, and I buy that when you're under pressure you wanna fight that off before pressuring others. I want reads from you at the very least so I think easing up the pressure on your slot for now makes sense even if I have my worries.

[OopsieDaisy]

In terms of the people actively pushing, for the most part I like em but naturally if a wagon gains traction and it originated from a read I made, I'm gonna be happy.

Elements sticks out like a sore thumb for intending to hammer, and I'm side-eyeing em for that, but also this isn't out of character for em as either alignment so I'm not rly sure how to read it?

I like PP this game and their discussion with KKFC didn't make me doubt my read on em at all.

Skygazer jumping on initially felt a bit opportunistic but I could buy the switch in POV once it was explained in the thread.

Anyways it's 5am here I cannot sleep but i've gotta try. If my posts were too rambly blame the time and the stress of the day I just had lol.

[OopsieDaisy]

Yeah again if I try to rock the boat early D1, a townie usually dies so I don't see much incentive to do so.

That's understandable, but I think townies die a lottt Day 1 regardless of the boat being rocked ykno. The goal I always try and hit for a Day 1 is to create enough alignment indicative content that the flips from the vote and night kill can actually be used for some strong analysis Day 2. Hitting scum from that is a bonus moreso than the one absolute goal of a Day 1 for me.

[OopsieDaisy]

who asked me about oopsie? at work and have adhd sorry

oh hey a fellow adhder, nice

I have autism, mild ADHD, and BPD.

btw I am in Asia so my timezone is way different from the one in America so I might appear to not post very much but when I have something to say and am not asleep, I am active.

I'll keep these in mind, thanks for letting us know

[OopsieDaisy]

Only other significant opinion I have is that I'm still upset that Daisy is using a meta read on Page 4 and that it gained traction. Maybe a little +scum as of response to 263?

Would it help your read if I told you that in mini norm 2302 I, as town, also brought up meta points to create/inform pushes at the start of the game?

[OopsieDaisy]

Daisy, have you ever rolled scum in a forum game?

I think once? But that was in 2014/15 times it's an ancient game that I ended up getting modkilled in cause I accidentally sent a message meant for the scum skype chat in the website's general skype chat lmao

[OopsieDaisy]

Wildly enough I think scum still won that game, but I don't rly fancy going back and looking to check cause my deadname's plastered all over it

[OopsieDaisy]

Oh damn
That's before you knew me!

Yea I said it was ancient :3

[OopsieDaisy]

@Elements Your vote is on RN right now, any particular reason why?

[OopsieDaisy]

UNVOTE: Kitty
VOTE: Random Nurse

You mentioned how shit was getting serious and that we were moving out of RVS in your last post. Any particular reads you have now that there's content to sink our teeth into?

[OopsieDaisy]

I had a post prepared about how I thought El and KKFC could be scumbuddies, but then I realised p much any combo of either being town or scum works right now so I'm a bit lost.

I will say El is now reading a bit different to me after revealing that the intent to hammer post had an agenda. As I've said before my read on Elements is based on whether their posts have a deep running agenda (scummy) or are mostly surface level and a bit trolly (townie). Revealing that the intent to hammer post had strong thought behind it surprises me a bit, tho I've been wrong here plenty of times before.

[OopsieDaisy]

Daisy just scumreads me when I play the game

Tbf I would probably townread you if you started playing like, chess or minesweeper in the thread so I see your point sdgkj;dks;

[OopsieDaisy]

last time I played chess in thread I was scum

fuck

[OopsieDaisy]

last time I played chess in thread I was scum

fuck

]

love u too xoxo

[OopsieDaisy]

Random Nurse is on V/LA until Saturday.

Ahh I see, this kinda makes my pressure vote redundant huh.

UNVOTE: Random Nurse

[OopsieDaisy]

VOTE: Elements

If the idea was to provoke a reaction or a defense, then you should probably have considered the fact that there was already significant pressure on me. Seems like a lazy attempt to get on a wagon with the fallback defense of "reaction farming". Especially after you admit you don't have any reads.

I was never going to hammer you. And there are reactions to look at. E.g. the unvoting from you was quite slow and no one was rushing to your defence.
Daisy unvoted which I expected, and then re-voted you.
PP was the first to unvote you, mid conversation. But again, that was very just "I want to finish this chat" and nothing to do with your slot. (Although with my knowledge of PP I wouldn't put it past him to position himself to be able to do that)
So from the reactions to my "intent to hammer" I don't think that your scum partner was either active, or on your wagon around that time. Which is the majority of the player base. Making me think you're probably just town with an easily scumread play style, as you've been saying. Which is something I can empathize with as someone who used to get regularly voted out day two due to play style

For the most part I agree with this logic, I think if KKFC has a partner it's probably somewhere in [RN, Kitty] for not being there to protect their partner (Delta would've fallen into this group but he sussed KKFC p hard when he came back) or if there is a paired scum around the push it would be in [IAVH, Elements]. Whilst Skygazer and PP organically accelerated the push in a way that felt natural and scumhunty, I had to work to get IAVH on the wagon in the first place and I think there's a reading of El's intent to hammer post where El could've just been trying to scare people away from the wagon with the reaction check explanation there to shield em.

[OopsieDaisy]

But yea [RN, Kitty, IAVH, Elements] is 4/7 of the possible partners in the game (from my POV ofc), and this is if we discount the more wifommy bussing situations with the others that I don't rly wanna explore right now, so despite the big wagon I think a scum!kkfc possibility very much exists in the current gamestate.

[OopsieDaisy]

Maybe I'm wrong on the IAVH thing tho cause the fact his vote has remained through this all would be surprising if KKFC was his partner, as I'd expect a typical player to manufacture some sorta counter wagon and go vote there instead. Thing is IAVH has admitted themselves they're not a typical player tho and that their atypical playstyle gets em jumped on, so I'm not sure how much I can read into this?

[OopsieDaisy]

For the most part I agree with this logic, I think if KKFC has a partner it's probably somewhere in [RN, Kitty] for not being there to protect their partner (Delta would've fallen into this group but he sussed KKFC p hard when he came back) or if there is a paired scum around the push it would be in [IAVH, Elements].

But yea [RN, Kitty, IAVH, Elements] is 4/7 of the possible partners in the game (from my POV ofc), and this is if we discount the more wifommy bussing situations with the others that I don't rly wanna explore right now

So you're pretty confident that I am not getting bussed. I think I am getting town vibes from Skygazer and I don't really have an opinion of PP pushing me or Delta scumreading me yet. I like Delta pushing on iavh, but I am wary of his scumread on me during his reread. It seems like a somewhat safe way to keep a possible miselim open. Especially after you unvote me in 288 with a caveat that you're ok re-committing to the wagon later. As town I think he's going into that with much more of a hammer mentality though.

If I'm town who among the people pushing me do you think is scum (if any)?

I think you just flip my view on who would be partners with you if you were scum for the most part.

I think IAVH is least likely to be scum on the wagon, as I had to actively convince them of it.

Elements could've been scum looking for a quick hammer but I think that's fairly unlikely considering the explanations we've received.

I see PP/Skygazer in a similar light as they almost tag-teamed you with the pressure during the peak of your wagon, and I think if there is scum on your wagon, it would most likely be these two. However I do feel the wagon on you was fairly justified, at least from my POV of reactive/defensive play typically being scummy, so I don't read these players as all that scummy right now because I agreed with the reasons why they were pushing you.

[OopsieDaisy]

I can also see Delta's positioning on your wagon post-peak as quite scummy if you are town, sorta priming a revival of the wagon come the end of the day, but I'm getting more pings from RN/Kitty in that scum could easily just be sitting back and letting the push on you happen without interfering, and those are the two players who I feel are really sitting back in this Day 1.

But again, I've got my biases regarding playstyles that I need to keep in check so maybe this is just those rearing their head again.

[OopsieDaisy]

However I do feel the wagon on you was fairly justified, at least from my POV of reactive/defensive play typically being scummy, so I don't read these players as all that scummy right now because I agreed with the reasons why they were pushing you

Their reasons are pretty different than yours/iavh's though.

Different from my original reason. I don't think my meta read really holds much ground anymore? Because whilst you have been defensive and reactive (things that my biases go grrr at), you've not been passive and that was the crux of my read on Page 4.

P-edit: Yea I understand that my analysis isn't super deep, but I prefer considering the simple worlds before the convoluted ones, especially before we have any flips in the game.

[OopsieDaisy]

KKFC gives me more null pings than IAVH but no actual scum pings. IAVH town tho.

Why? I really disagree they're doing anything in the town interest right now so to see someone outright labelling them town is weird to me.

Agree with this pretty much. I could see a nullread on IAVH but it's hard for me to give evidence or imagine a reason for him to be town at this point in the game.

If you agree with Delta's point, how come your vote isn't on IAVH right now?

[OopsieDaisy]

I will say El is now reading a bit different to me after revealing that the intent to hammer post had an agenda. As I've said before my read on Elements is based on whether their posts have a deep running agenda (scummy) or are mostly surface level and a bit trolly (townie). Revealing that the intent to hammer post had strong thought behind it surprises me a bit, tho I've been wrong here plenty of times before.

mind meld with this, thought they were shitposting

Yea, the thing on my mind w/ this now is I don't see why a scum!elements does this if kkfc is town. Like what agenda even exists for that?

[OopsieDaisy]

Bar just openly wanting to smash the hammer super early but like, that cannot be a good play as scum you just get ejected the day after.

[OopsieDaisy]

I wanna see the offence side of KKFC so gonna support this wagon and see what comes of it.

VOTE: IAVH

[OopsieDaisy]

kk
I'm not even mad about it
II'm ust disappointed that you'd go for me since I'm cowonftown

I just don't like my vote not being in use and bumping your wagon up means that the KKFC wagon now has a strong competitor, which will give us some more info later on as players will have to decide where to commit to.

[OopsieDaisy]

it's like oopsie is my twin

<3

[OopsieDaisy]

UNVOTE: IAVH

I had another couple looks at IAVH's ISO and I think I might know what he's softing? It's tenuous and I'm not sure if I'm actually right or just going a bit tinfoil hat, but it's not a role I'd wanna gamble on and vote out Day 1.

[OopsieDaisy]

What I don't understand is why draw attention to it by saying you're softing and people need to hunt for a claim? You're not in a spot where you need to claim yet and like, having that softly crumbed claim doesn't make you exempt from the fact that you've kinda just spent most of the day shitposting. If you are what I think you are I'm more confused by your play it isn't clearing up any of the criticisms.

[OopsieDaisy]

okay hold on i thought about it and i definitely think iavh should full claim at this point and here is why:

1) if theyre town they might be night killed anyways
2) if theyre scum we lock them into a claim early
3) someone might counterclaim and we have one caught scum right off the bat
4) if oopsie and i have spotted the potential soft then scum can probably find it too

This makes sense to me.

[OopsieDaisy]

I wouldn't agree to this logic tho if IAVH didn't draw so much attention to the claim in the first place but wcyd

[OopsieDaisy]

oh lmao i thought iavh was softing JOAT. with the poker references = cards (thus the jack) and his first set-up solve post talking about the existence of rbs and cops

[OopsieDaisy]

wishing Random Nurse was around more considering deadline is less than 48 hours away

I think their V/LA p much ends on the deadline so sadly they probably just won't be around until Day 2

[OopsieDaisy]

what are you getting read-wise out of this guessing game? just out it my dude

this is scum
VOTE: oopsie
you fell into my trap my friend, I call it the iamveryhappy get softed
there's some simple reasons you're scum
1. I realised you're using meta to push a kkffc mislim, and I fell for it and sheeped you
2. You seem to be too enthusiastic about my role. Let's assume I'm jreatest of all time. You just outed me well done. What if I'm not? I'm placed into an awkward position where my soft did absolutely nothing to bait scumkill. Let me cook. And no, delta got absolutely jack shit on it, if he did, he didn't spew me. Delta town. Normally people get scared here, but I understand I have nothing to lose here.
You just reread my iso for a soft didn't you? Scum tend to do that to deduce nightkills. Thanks for outing yourself <3
looking at sky here, iit's obvious that they only looked at my shitposts but still tthat's a scumtell for me. Oopsie yours is worse to me.

1) The reason I would want a KKFC lim now wouldn't be due to meta. In 393 I explain myself that my meta read doesn't hold much ground anymore. The meta read was a springboard for the initial push and discussion.

2) Your entire play these last few pages has been based around this softclaim of yours. You actively wanted people to look through your ISO for your soft, talking about how you're dropping info and that's what makes you town. In fact, the very thing you're saying I'm scum for (outing your role) is something you asked for in 457? Like if you don't want people looking through your ISO and making guesses at your role, maybe don't ask for it?

[OopsieDaisy]

lol
stop twisting my words
you seem to have pushed for a mislim on kkfc using meta is what I'm saying
it's the fourth page chill. youn ddon't meta someone there
also tthere's this thing where oopsie says chatting>trying to solve (ew kindle) which strikes me as odd

I've meta'd someone on Page 5 before (and mentioned meta on the page 1) as town in mini norm 2302. There is evidence there that shows I make these plays as town, so I don't understand why you're using this logic to push me as scum in this game?

[OopsieDaisy]

I wanna hammer as well lmao

[OopsieDaisy]

Is it worth having any more discussion time? That's what I'm trying to think

[OopsieDaisy]

Yea all I was thinking was like, I'd have quite liked to have heard the KKFC/RN reactions, but I don't think there's use in that if the outcome is already certain.

VOTE: IAVH

[OopsieDaisy]

reads if i die:

pp
sky / delta / elements

RN / kitty / KKFC

[OopsieDaisy]

I think RH is Aussie so some time until flip.

Can we get readslists from everyone going into twilight ASAP please?

Town

Sky

- I agree with a lot of what they say and the things that I don't, I understand how they come to their conclusions. It's transparent and I'm comfortable talking with them.

Oopsie

- As above.

Me

KKFC

(Flip Dependant) - See #430

Kitty

- Finding this slot hard to read. Get a sense they've coasted D1.

Nurse

- Similar to above, although I think the exasperation directed at Happy was genuine.

Penguin

- Vibes. Something just doesn't sit well with me on this slot and I can't quite define it at present.

KKFC

(Flip Dependant) - See #430

Happy

(No flip yet)

Scum

opinion on elements?

[OopsieDaisy]

Ferrari fans are a good joke

LMAO

I haven't watched F1 in a while but this gave me a chuckle

[OopsieDaisy]

The one thing I've taken from this year's season is how much I dislike the Dutch National Anthem week-in, week-out. I watch the F2 as well and there's still rarely any respite

Yea I don't blame Verstappen but I always tune out of F1 when it just becomes a complete one-horse race at the front. As much as the midfield fights can be rly exciting they never end up the focus on broadcast.

[OopsieDaisy]

The one thing I've taken from this year's season is how much I dislike the Dutch National Anthem week-in, week-out. I watch the F2 as well and there's still rarely any respite

Yea I don't blame Verstappen but I always tune out of F1 when it just becomes a complete one-horse race at the front. As much as the midfield fights can be rly exciting they never end up the focus on broadcast.

Its a good Q2 at present - if you can tune in, Q3 in <5 mins.

Wait McLaren are doing well again??? Am I dreaming??

[OopsieDaisy]

Oh Oopsie they had a tractor for the first 9 races then at Silverstone qualified P2 and P3, Lando was leading for a while. Hungary they almost took a double podium as well. Lando so far is chasing a 3rd consecutive podium.

Get on it haha

Oh yea I saw their tractor at the start of the year and it defo played a part in me tuning out this year, it looked doomed. Guess I've gotta get my eye back on F1 lmao

[OopsieDaisy]

But yea my fave drivers are Norris, Albon and Russell. I'm biased because I started watching when they entered F1 but I'd protect them with my life ngl they're such fun personalities.

[OopsieDaisy]

Daisy's play definitely seems towny, but now I'm starting to be a little more skeptical mainly because I reread 393 again. I think wagon dynamics on iavh also play a part. If iavh flips scum I'm pretty happy saying Daisy is

town

.

Different from my original reason. I don't think my meta read really holds much ground anymore? Because whilst you have been defensive and reactive (things that my biases go grrr at), you've not been passive and that was the crux of my read on Page 4.

Honestly, I hate 393 because it seems inconsistent with the rest of Daisy's play. For one, they clearly value meta as a way to help evaluate people. 393 goes against that, basically saying "look this meta read was wrong", but there's this other heuristic that I think is naturally scummy. The thing is, in my defense I can either be passive or defensive/reactive, and it looks like no matter what I was going to get scumread by Daisy for one. Maybe this is an oversight (I could honestly see it), but the way in which Daisy is evaluating me in this post feels to me like I'm getting set up.

Overall (assuming iavh town flip):

scumlean

Yea my read on your slot is definitely messy right now. I'm struggling because what I wanted to see was you scumhunt in response to the push and that didn't rly happen until the pressure unwound, but your explanation of the defence/offence mode thing made sense, hence why I stopped pushing your slot and started to pressure elsewhere because the pressure clearly wasn't helping you solve.

[OopsieDaisy]

Can you define defensive and reactive (originally from 393?). It might help me understand more where you're coming from.

Like, getting pushed and focusing on shutting down the push itself rather than looking at the game as a whole and providing your reads based on the push. It's that survivalism that, whilst it exists in town players, almost always exists in scum as long as they've not given up completely.

Your readlist is a great example of something I've wanted to see from you all game. It now feels like you *are* able to focus on the game as a whole and make reads based on how everyone is acting rather than focusing just on the push on you because that pressure has been relieved for this twilight period.

[OopsieDaisy]

Your readlist is a great example of something I've wanted to see from you all game. It now feels like you *are* able to focus on the game as a whole and make reads based on how everyone is acting rather than focusing just on the push on you because that pressure has been relieved for this twilight period.

Sure, I get where you're coming from now. I will say that I did give readslists earlier than just a few hours ago. Chronologically, it did come after the pressure on my push subsided, but if you take my word for it I'm mostly just a focus-on-one-thing-at-a-time player. If you still value meta, you can see an example of this in Newbie 2125, where I spend literally the entirety of Day 1 defending another player in the game. Deltabreedy can also attest to this

Oh ya I saw em, but unlike the reads you've given right now which feel a lot more informed/textured from your experience in the game, your reads fresh after the push didn't feel all that strong. Like you just threw some reads out to satiate the desires of the pushers (since it was kinda being demanded of you) rather than now where the reads feel a lot more natural.

[OopsieDaisy]

so much twilight analysis

can we not just troll?

Can I do both?

[OopsieDaisy]

Your readlist is a great example of something I've wanted to see from you all game. It now feels like you *are* able to focus on the game as a whole and make reads based on how everyone is acting rather than focusing just on the push on you because that pressure has been relieved for this twilight period.

Sure, I get where you're coming from now. I will say that I did give readslists earlier than just a few hours ago. Chronologically, it did come after the pressure on my push subsided, but if you take my word for it I'm mostly just a focus-on-one-thing-at-a-time player. If you still value meta, you can see an example of this in Newbie 2125, where I spend literally the entirety of Day 1 defending another player in the game. Deltabreedy can also attest to this

Oh ya I saw em, but unlike the reads you've given right now which feel a lot more informed/textured from your experience in the game, your reads fresh after the push didn't feel all that strong. Like you just threw some reads out to satiate the desires of the pushers (since it was kinda being demanded of you) rather than now where the reads feel a lot more natural.

But yea reading this out loud I can see where the double standards lie. Like at the time you either give your reads and I think they're weak so am not convinced of your slot, or you don't and I think you're scummy for hiding em.

Anyways ok FINE i'll stop doing analysis I'm ordering pizza what's everyone's favourite kind of pizza?

[OopsieDaisy]

A nice plain New York slice that burns the top of your mouth.

Sounds glorious

[OopsieDaisy]

the worst pizza ive ever had was something my work catered; it was squash, broccoli and red onion, no tomato sauce, only cheddar cheese, and the dough was both under and overcooked with random pockets of extreme sugar

i am so sorry

[OopsieDaisy]

But yea my fave drivers are Norris, Albon and Russell. I'm biased because I started watching when they entered F1 but I'd protect them with my life ngl they're such fun personalities.

But yea my fave drivers are Norris, Albon and Russell.

Norris, Albon and Russell.

Russell

.

'He just turned in on me!' FOS Daisy

lmaoo

[OopsieDaisy]

words of wisdom to come post game

this ^^

someone remind me in post-game tho cause i will definitely forget, but i also don't wanna give advice out without knowing the full context of everything.

[OopsieDaisy]

I received Delta's message last night. Don't think there's any downside in not sharing since it's just a green flip's reads and it gives Delta a death speech of sorts.

"I believe we're the same alignment, and I think we should be incredibly cautious of PP.
I think there is a decent chance that KKFC is town despite what I said yesterday, which is mostly vibes.
I plan on looking hard within my null pile tomorrow, and I hope that I can trust in your support on that.
If I'm unsure, then I do trust that I can sheep you. If I'm wrong on THAT then idk gg I guess

Verstappen leads tomorrow by lap 8, btw."

I'm not sure how much I'll be around today but I wanna ISO PP, he was my biggest townread yesterday but when I look at my reasoning it mostly just amounts to vibes so I need to develop my read there, especially with what Delta's saying here.

[OopsieDaisy]

I received Delta's message last night. Don't think there's any downside in not sharing* since it's just a green flip's reads and it gives Delta a death speech of sorts.

"I believe we're the same alignment, and I think we should be incredibly cautious of PP.
I think there is a decent chance that KKFC is town despite what I said yesterday, which is mostly vibes.
I plan on looking hard within my null pile tomorrow, and I hope that I can trust in your support on that.
If I'm unsure, then I do trust that I can sheep you. If I'm wrong on THAT then idk gg I guess

Verstappen leads tomorrow by lap 8, btw."

I'm not sure how much I'll be around today but I wanna ISO PP, he was my biggest townread yesterday but when I look at my reasoning it mostly just amounts to vibes so I need to develop my read there, especially with what Delta's saying here.

EBWOP: Downside in sharing, not downside in not sharing I double negatived myself there.

[OopsieDaisy]

i hope that was paraphrased oopsie

it was not, that's exactly what i got lmao

[OopsieDaisy]

ya might wanna read the ruleset then :c

ohh yea I saw that rule and asked RH about it when I got up, but I got impatient and didn't wanna wait an irl day to share. that's gonna stink if it means i get smitten by our overlord then dang. RH please have mercy

[OopsieDaisy]

learning experience i suppose!

your signature feels very apt for the situation i've put myself in sdgkjdsk

[OopsieDaisy]

So, ISOing Penguin. Let's see what I find.

33, 38 & 42 were the initial set of posts that spoke as townie to me and I still agree with my assessment there. It's easy mafia theory but it showed me that PP was gonna be looking at the game from a similar perspective to me and I vibed with that.

69 & 75 are easy criticisms on IAVH's setup solving that I also agree with. I'm not sure how we should really be reading the IAVH push today cause like, in theory green flip comes through we look at who was pushing there, but for me at least I felt it was a very justified push on a player who was gonna hurt town in the long run if we kept him alive.

165 has PP hop onto the KKFC wagon, but he actually spends his next burst of posts pressuring Skygazer instead. It's consistent with his thoughts regarding using and supporting big wagons to see how people react, which is good, but the Skygazer pressure sorta just ends as the big KKFC conversation takes over. I guess there's a Skygazer/PP deepwolf world but I don't really wanna worry about that right now considering they're both big townreads to me lol.

In terms of that big KKFC push, I still like it because I think the principals being pushed are those I agree with. Being open/honest about your reads for the most part I think is just the way to go for town. However as the pressure has eased up on KKFC I'm reading him a lot more townie so that adds an extra wrinkle here.

After the KKFC push tho PP takes a bit of a step back from the game. Pressures KKFC to vote IAVH in 403 alongside myself, and then pops IAVH at E-1 in 496. From there it's just twilight shenanigans. I can see how other players could see these actions as scummy, with PP helping get an extra vote on a town wagon alongside their own, but I'm seeing it as town because getting KKFC active and voting is something I actively wanted at the time too, and IAVH was warping the game around himself to the point where he kinda had to go.

TL:DR/Summary - Reading all this has reaffirmed the things I really liked from this slot. There are obviously gonna be worlds where the things I'm reading as town are actually scum plays, but on the surface I'm seeing town motivations here so I'm not particularly concerned with pressuring here today. Sorry Delta

[OopsieDaisy]

ahh i'm actually rly annoyed with myself over the messenger situation, sorry if this messes the game up for anyone

[OopsieDaisy]

Probably best to stop talking about it.

yea you're right.

i'd like to hear kitty and nurse's reads. those are the slots a lot of the game (inc myself) seem the most unsure of so hearing their takes on things might help us sort em.

[OopsieDaisy]

cause right now i'm sat on:
skygazer who i townread super hard i rly liked their day 1
pp who i definitely like this game
elements who could be paired with kkfc but otherwise i don't see scum motivation in their "intent to hammer" post
kkfc who's growing on me as he gets to play without pressure. i maintain that his twilight readlist was super good to see and it gave my read a big boost here

[OopsieDaisy]

Is you're read on me based solely on my intent to hammer post?

Not solely, but it plays a big part in my read on you ya.

[OopsieDaisy]

I'll hop onto this, I want some reads :3

VOTE: Random Nurse

[OopsieDaisy]

Is you're read on me based solely on my intent to hammer post?

wait El have you got any reads you'd like to share whilst we're at it?

[OopsieDaisy]

UNVOTE: Random Nurse

[OopsieDaisy]

I would like those remaining four who voted for IAVH to very thoroughly explain why they limmed him.

Yeehaw

I originally voted IAVH for wagonomics reasons. KKFC had finally got a bit of pressure off of em and had found a scumread of sorts, I wanted to bolster the wagon to see if I could kick KKFC's offence mode into play since I felt that's where i would see the townier side of his slot come through if it existed. It also served to create a counterwagon to KKFC's wagon, meaning players would then be given a choice of two wagons to commit to, rather than us being stuck circling around one. Plus IAVH's play up until this point hadn't set the world alight whatsoever, and despite the fact that his play was consistent with his personality (something that I did townread him for earlier on), it was becoming harder to see pro-town motivation in his posts.

However a page after this vote IAVH starts kicking his gambit into play and I hop off the wagon very quickly. If he's a pr I'm not interested in voting him out, as imo leaving him alive in the night and seeing if scum choose to kill the slot would be worth it, as he might actually get to use an ability. I'm confused at him drawing attention to his softing of a PR claim (if you're a PR why are you so desperate for people to know?) but I play along because I agreed with the idea of getting him to claim (since he's already outed himself as a PR).

Then 472 happens, he reveals it was all a ploy, and lashes out at me. At this point the next few pages speak for themselves. I was pissed off at this slot who was now pushing me for two reasons which didn't make sense to me. The push based on me using a meta read as a springboard for a push meaning I'm scum is something that was answered for earlier in the day, and the push on me based on the gambit I felt was bogus because the gambit itself flops when three different people all out a power role for you. He was warping the game around himself with bad pushes and silly gambits, so I wanted the slot out of the game and the hammer presented itself.

Honestly maybe there's a bit of just, me not liking being so blatantly lied to too? I don't like it when players punish me for trying to cooperate with them, legit just feels bad.

TL:DR - Initially voted IAVH to help my read on kkfc and create multiple wagons, hopped off because I didn't wanna vote a PR, and hopped back on when the vt claim came through alongside the imo terrible push on me. Hope this was able to clear things up

[OopsieDaisy]

UNVOTE: Random Nurse

Is this because of the wall post?

Yep. I voted him to pressure content out, we now have some solvy content from the slot, no need for my vote to stay.

[OopsieDaisy]

This is a reminder that it's against site rules to directly copy-paste PMs.

I hear ya

[OopsieDaisy]

PP and KT can be town for today

Why specifically these two?

[OopsieDaisy]

607: OK, but why

Kitty

? You make these actions but you rarely provide any reason behind it. To anyone else reading this, am I being unfair with

Elements

? I don't recall playing with him before, so I don't have a firm grasp on *how* he plays the game. I think the actions sans the reasons is what's naturally getting my goat here. 688: OK, why?

First thing, El goes by she/they pronouns

Second thing, I've talked about this in Day 1 but my goal when reading Elements is to figure out how much agenda is behind their posting. If you're not seeing much rhyme or reason, chances are it's just town!elements doing things to poke/pressure/see how others react. If you're seeing El's votes/comments manipulating the gamestate, then it's scum!elements controlling the game.

[OopsieDaisy]

Second thing, I've talked about this in Day 1 but my goal when reading Elements is to figure out how much agenda is behind their posting. If you're not seeing much rhyme or reason, chances are it's just town!elements doing things to poke/pressure/see how others react. If you're seeing El's votes/comments manipulating the gamestate, then it's scum!elements controlling the game.

question: do u think elements would adjust to this as scum knowing u know this?

If a scum!el is forced to avoid taking actions that actively manipulate the gamestate to their advantage and has to hide under the guise of playing their town game, that's good imo.

In terms of if they're capable of it, they definitely are I've been fooled before, but I've also learned that letting myself sit in paranoia about the slot for days on end isn't gonna help me solve it. Usually I listen to what my head is saying and right now it's either partnered with KKFC as scum or just town. There's the 20% chance I'm wrong here and El's adjusted well to my reads this game, but I don't want to let that worry dominate my thoughts here.

[OopsieDaisy]

Second thing, I've talked about this in Day 1 but my goal when reading Elements is to figure out how much agenda is behind their posting. If you're not seeing much rhyme or reason, chances are it's just town!elements doing things to poke/pressure/see how others react. If you're seeing El's votes/comments manipulating the gamestate, then it's scum!elements controlling the game.

question: do u think elements would adjust to this as scum knowing u know this?

I always try to adjust my scum play to match my town play when I roll scum

Surely this is something everyone does

Everyone tries. I think the key word is trying tho, it's a lot easier said than done.

Tho maybe my irl mafia experience clouds this as I've heard self-meta stuff is a lot easier to control over forum for a lotta people.

[OopsieDaisy]

If a scum!el is forced to avoid taking actions that actively manipulate the gamestate to their advantage and has to hide under the guise of playing their town game, that's good imo.

In terms of if they're capable of it, they definitely are I've been fooled before, but I've also learned that letting myself sit in paranoia about the slot for days on end isn't gonna help me solve it. Usually I listen to what my head is saying and right now it's either partnered with KKFC as scum or just town. There's the 20% chance I'm wrong here and El's adjusted well to my reads this game, but I don't want to let that worry dominate my thoughts here.

Gotcha. I guess my concern was you just writing them off as potential scum too easily, felt like it could be coming from a place of buddying or tmi. But this makes sense.

What is tmi? I've seen it mentioned in a few games I've read and I know what it stands for but the wiki doesn't give me anything when I search up tmi.

[OopsieDaisy]

too much information; basically the idea that scum knows everyones alignments and will be more likely to give out unearned townreads since they dont have to actually solve

Ahh I see, thanks

[OopsieDaisy]

UNVOTE: Random Nurse

Is this because of the wall post?

Yep. I voted him to pressure content out, we now have some solvy content from the slot, no need for my vote to stay.

so you're townreading their content? what about it do you like? feels like you kinda gave up that vote on RN too easily.

the vote on RN wasn't an indication of a scumread, moreso a pressure vote to get RN making content in the first place. same line of thinking as my vote on him on Day 1 which had a similar goal, which I dropped cause of V/LA. it's an act of goodwill to take the vote away once he's making content ykno, and I can always reapply it if the content is bad.

but the thing is in terms of the content itself, of the bits I was able to take in it seemed pretty strong and I found myself nodding along a lot. don't know if this is just bias cause I know I'm town but I loved his point about how abrupt the Kitty read felt. the fact he doesn't see much agenda in el's play backs up my read there. disagree with the reasoning on kkfc, but that's because I liked the early push on them and the reason my read has improved there is because of the twilight reads and in general the way his play has improved without the pressure. tho i need to talk about 659 at some point i glossed over that in my readthrough of the new pages this morning.

i do wanna wait until i see the full picture before i give RN a seal of approval tho.

[OopsieDaisy]

tho yea i've hit a bit of a wall with scumreads, feels like my reads are very lopsided towards town. right now kitty is sticking out (but i know he's gonna have some content soon so wanna wait to react to that before pressuring) and kkfc is a very selfish flip that imo tells us a lot about the game (helps me solve slots like el, or pp/skygazer who were pushing there. obvs for others it might help sort me too cause i was also on that push) but kkfc's change in attitude from the defensive start of yesterday to the more offensive mode we've seen in twilight/today feels good in isolation.

i wanna do my next iso thingy on KKFC but i've done a lot of typing today and kinda wanna take a break, i'll get to it soon(tm)

[OopsieDaisy]

Ok gonna talk about the KKFC post I mentioned yesterday.

In the interest of being a little more decisive, I'm going to make a few assumptions to help me try to solve the game from there. This isn't really something I've tried before but in a smaller game it might be helpful?

Assumptions:
1) There was at least one scum on my wagon.
2) There was at least one scum on IAVH wagon.
3) Between the two wagons, it was more likely for scum to be on my wagon since it was earlier and the IAVH wagon seemed more likely to happen (maybe circular logic but still)
4) The scumteam was not on both wagons.

People on my wagon: Daisy, iavh, Skygazer, PP
People on IAVH wagon: Delta, KKFC, Elements, PP, Daisy

I think I can throw out a Daisy/PP team, but I might be suspect of one of them individually.
Does a Skygazer/Elements team make sense so far? Going to think about that overnight.

First things first, love the first sentence. Again this is showing the progression that KKFC is having in this game as a player. KKFC wanting to be decisive is not something I would ever expect to hear come out of his mouth when seeing them play early day 1.

However I take issue with some of the assumptions at play here. Maybe it's because you've got the bias of one of the wagons being on you, but I don't think these are great boundaries to set on our scumhunt. Particularly with 1) and 3), imo you're putting way too much weight onto how your wagon formed because whilst your wagon got big and El's "intent to hammer" sent a scare, the pressure eventually eased off as people got interested in IAVH and if anyone actually hammered that early it would've been a shockingly scummy play if you're town.

[OopsieDaisy]

2) and 4) I think are fair, but IAVH I think was getting pushed through so easily that I can see a world where scum that knew he was town just sorta sat back and let town take him out.

Also I'm gonna be afk for most of today, going to a trans pride thing.

[OopsieDaisy]

Tho there were only 3 people off the wagon [Kitty, RN, Skygazer] so that's rly not a big pool if that's what I'm looking at.

VOTE: Kitty

Blehhh I'm gonna park my vote here I was expecting a lot more from Kitty's return. I rly don't like how noncommital this slot is feeling, especially on their one scumread (me). Plus to me they fit as a partner to literally every player in the game (bar I guess El because of the El shenanigans I've talked about).

[OopsieDaisy]

This is difficult. Kitty is imo reading the scummiest out of anyone here but PP's got a hard read on the slot and it might be worth trusting that.

@PP How much have you played with Kitty/Do you think you have a strong ability to read him?

I see the Skygazer/PP world RN is on about and it terrifies me to think my reads are this off-base, but I wanna have trust in myself and I do think those slots are townie right now.

[OopsieDaisy]

i like to think i'm pretty good at detecting the subtleties of scum!KT play after misreading town!him as scum multiple times before...I don't think scum!KT ever makes that post about iavh being +town d1, and i think, despite limited activity, the actual content kt is producing is more than he would have as scum.

this is enough to make me want to UNVOTE: kitty for now then. you're gonna know kitty better than i am.

[OopsieDaisy]

Why is asking people to vote scum indicative?

I feel like it's manipulative, like you're trying to get them to DO something they're otherwise unsure about. Especially so when the person you're asking struggles bad during Day 1.

You seem to be a lot more concerned about PP being scum for doing this over me, when I was very much employing the same tactic of getting the people who were hesistant about voting to vote. Why do I get a free pass for this but PP doesn't?

[OopsieDaisy]

Who is RN paired with right now?

Feels like the entire group has very quickly turned on him. Even if I don't feel his last couple pages have been super townie, no-one's speaking out in defence of him and in a small game like this I don't see bussing your partner as particularly viable.

I can see why people would think I'm paired with RN because of me liking his big analysis posts that others haven't + me trying to push onto Kitty, but outside of that everyone (bar Kitty) is positioning to get RN voted out today and it feels very similar to how IAVH went down yesterday.

[OopsieDaisy]

were both scum on wagon yesterday or do you think one was off?

I'm not sure, but going into this day I was assuming at least one was off since I felt justified in the IAVH being good for town to get through.

[OopsieDaisy]

well, then it's down to rn, sky, and kitty.

it is 99% not kitty.

so it's rn or sky.

Ok I see what you're saying then.

When I'm next in the gamer zone I'll give Sky another look over. I've got paranoia and I wanna see if that clears up or grows on another look at the slot.

[OopsieDaisy]

well, then it's down to rn, sky, and kitty.

it is 99% not kitty.

so it's rn or sky.

Ok I see what you're saying then.

When I'm next in the gamer zone I'll give Sky another look over. I've got paranoia and I wanna see if that clears up or grows on another look at the slot.

Update on this - I tried but I'm having a roughh day and I wasn't able to get far into the ISO. Gonna try and tackle this in small lil bursts and hopefully it'll amount to something.

Basically the scumpool in 227 (KKFC/RN/IAVH/Delta) pinged me a bit because Skygazer was holding a townread on IAVH prior to this, but was then pressured by PP about this townread with light accusations of white knighting and possible tmi. Feels like Sky sorta crumpled a bit here when they had made several posts beforehand (118 159) reading the slot as town. 174 exists but the progression feels unnatural to me.

@Sky What changed your read on IAVH here from townie to being in your scumpool?

[OopsieDaisy]

Basically the scumpool in 227 (KKFC/RN/IAVH/Delta) pinged me a bit because Skygazer was holding a townread on IAVH prior to this, but was then pressured by PP about this townread with light accusations of white knighting and possible tmi. Feels like Sky sorta crumpled a bit here when they had made several posts beforehand (118 159) reading the slot as town. 174 exists but the progression feels unnatural to me.

Not trying to catch you in a slip or something but I feel like if 227 pinged you then you should have been suspicious of Skygazer a lot earlier?

It didn't ping me at the time, it's pinging me now that I'm reading through the ISO again with the knowledge we have now. Not that it wouldn't have been a good point at the time, I just didn't pick up on it until now.

[OopsieDaisy]

I think for now I'm going to place my vote here. My gut is pinging hard on this slot.

VOTE: Penguin Power

Bad vote
VOTE: RN
E-1

Why do you think it's Daisy?

Spoiler: Daisy Quotes

Elements - Town lean. Elements posting with an agenda is scum, Elements posting without one is town. I'm yet to see an agenda.

Elements sticks out like a sore thumb for intending to hammer, and I'm side-eyeing em for that, but also this isn't out of character for em as either alignment so I'm not rly sure how to read it?

I will say El is now reading a bit different to me after revealing that the intent to hammer post had an agenda. As I've said before my read on Elements is based on whether their posts have a deep running agenda (scummy) or are mostly surface level and a bit trolly (townie). Revealing that the intent to hammer post had strong thought behind it surprises me a bit, tho I've been wrong here plenty of times before.

For the most part I agree with this logic, I think if KKFC has a partner it's probably somewhere in [RN, Kitty] for not being there to protect their partner (Delta would've fallen into this group but he sussed KKFC p hard when he came back) or if there is a paired scum around the push it would be in [IAVH, Elements]. Whilst Skygazer and PP organically accelerated the push in a way that felt natural and scumhunty, I had to work to get IAVH on the wagon in the first place and I think there's a reading of El's intent to hammer post where El could've just been trying to scare people away from the wagon with the reaction check explanation there to shield em.

For the most part I agree with this logic, I think if KKFC has a partner it's probably somewhere in [RN, Kitty] for not being there to protect their partner (Delta would've fallen into this group but he sussed KKFC p hard when he came back) or if there is a paired scum around the push it would be in [IAVH, Elements].

Elements could've been scum looking for a quick hammer but I think that's fairly unlikely considering the explanations we've received.

elements who could be paired with kkfc but otherwise i don't see scum motivation in their "intent to hammer" post

Is you're read on me based solely on my intent to hammer post?

Not solely, but it plays a big part in my read on you ya.

Second thing, I've talked about this in Day 1 but my goal when reading Elements is to figure out how much agenda is behind their posting. If you're not seeing much rhyme or reason, chances are it's just town!elements doing things to poke/pressure/see how others react. If you're seeing El's votes/comments manipulating the gamestate, then it's scum!elements controlling the game.

Predominantly based on the positioning of her read on me.
These quotes feel inconsistant to me. She makes it out to be very black and white; Tolly El is town, El with an adjenda is scum.
She then procedes to find an adjenda with my intent to hammer post and then rationalise her way back to a town read on me. In normal 2302 (the last completed game we have together) I was scum and she was town. She found an adjenda behind a post I made and then scum read me for the rest of the game (admitidley I was killed that night by a vig but you get what I mean). This adjenda-finding-scum-reading is very diferent here and I feel like she knows I'm town and is therefore forcing her read on me to be a town read despite the hard stance on me adjendaing being scum.

Yea I start off with simple reads and build from there.

The original paradigm I set up for reading you was the agenda = scum point. You then revealed that your intent to hammer post had agenda. If I didn't have any sort of nuance, I'd just assume you were scum then, but if there was agenda I had to figure out what scum agenda was hiding behind that intent to hammer post since you'd given us the town one. Now, I see massive scum agenda behind that post *if* you're scum with KKFC. By making that post you scare players off the wagon and ease pressure off of your scumbuddy. But I do not find scum agenda in that post if you're scum without KKFC. You would just let that push go through no worries.

This is a different scenario compared to 2302, because in that game I was very easily able to spot the scum agenda in that joke-post that felt like you were manipulating me to take a hard stance on activity that would benefit you in the long run.

With how my reads are shaking out, I'm realising my prior townreads are not as reliable as I thought, and the world where you and KKFC are scum together is looking very strong right now. I still need to finish my Skygazer ISO and reevaluate from there tho.

[OopsieDaisy]

I really would like kitty and oopsie to take stance here

kkfc, why did you come in voting kitty when you have oopsie and rn as scum reads at the end of yesterday?

Right now gun to my head I vote KKFC. I think the worlds I'm focused on right now are Elements/KKFC and Skygazer/KKFC. Didn't like how quickly that RN wagon built up and they were all on it (KKFC wasn't but was positioning to hammer 100%). I've talked about my El/KKFC logic already, and with Sky/KKFC look how quick KKFC came in trying to discredit my first criticism of Sky.

[OopsieDaisy]

I meant vote, but thanks

VOTE: KKFC

[OopsieDaisy]

Oh shit there's only 20 hours left

[OopsieDaisy]

I don't wanna vote RN cause I think the way the wagon built up during the day makes me think he's town (all my scum suspects were on it/supporting it from the sidelines).

Issue is none of those suspects are the counterwagon, it's me, but there's not rly been a good case whatsoever around my slot being scum? El doesn't like my read on them but I think my reasoning is pretty sound, Kitty has been throwing sus at me this entire day phase but has never elaborated on it in a satisfying manner.

This stinks. I wanna vote in El/KKFC (not Skygazer now post-claim, best to let that play out in the night imo) and KKFC makes sense as scum in more worlds than El. I think PP is town and am sheeping the Kitty read. I think RN is town because of the D2 wagon. That just leaves Sky/El/KKFC and I don't see the motivation for El's "intent to hammer" if their scumpartner is Sky, so KKFC is the vote that makes the most sense to me here because he works as scum with both of them. Sorry if I didn't make the above clear for you KKFC (cause I know you felt caught off guard by it), I've just had to rejig my worldview after I realised how much I didn't like the RN wagon and that meant reevaluating my townreads.

Obvs if the day is super close to ending and/or I need to vote to save myself I will, I know I'm town and despite the fact that I think RN is town, I don't know it. But I don't want to.

[OopsieDaisy]

TL:DRing the above into a quick readlist:

PP
Kitty / RN
Sky / El
KKFC

[OopsieDaisy]

The crux of my RN townread comes down to the question: Who is RN paired with?

Kitty is an option but PP's got experience reading the slot and they like Kitty this game
I'm an option for well, disrupting the entire wagon and putting us in this spot. But I get to discount that world :3

But who else? Like who's throwing themselves into a Day 2 bus this hard? It's in Elements' scumrange but my logic on the slot goes against this world (but they've hopped wagons onto me now..). KKFC hadn't actually voted and was buying time for RN to come back, but he would've had to work hard in order to justify not voting there since he vocally did not like the slot (and is now voting there when I'm an option). Sky has RN rock bottom of their reads and hasn't rly given RN a single out. And PP's super town this game in my eyes.

Writing this out makes El and KKFC look like they potentially could be partners, but both possibilities feel tenuous. Tho the worry I'm wrong on the Elements read is creeping up on me, they 100% would use a bad read I had on them as an excuse to push me as scum.

[OopsieDaisy]

"I think RN is town, I don't like the wagon on him and I want it to stop"

*the monkey's paw curls*

[OopsieDaisy]

Clearly the wagons/poe I've arrived at aren't matching up with what anyone else wants to do with today tho, and whilst that means scum don't want it is also means town don't either.

[OopsieDaisy]

I can see the one on one off argument in regards to the IAVH, and if i were to follow that then it's between [Kitty, RN, Skygazer]. Kitty and PP have a lot of games together and so I trust PP's read on him. Skygazer has claimed a decent power role that I believe should be given time in the night to possibly confirm itself. This leaves RN.

The question is do I believe that it is one on one off on IAVH, and if I look at my scumreads, I can very much see it not being so.

[OopsieDaisy]

And then the other question is will I have a choice or is it vote or be voted.

[OopsieDaisy]

sure would be nice to have an official vote count with 12 hours remaining....

RN (2): Skygazer, KKFC
OopsieDaisy (2): Elements, Kitty
KKFC (1): OopsieDaisy
PenguinPower (1): RN

Not Voting: PP

I think this is how the votes are right now? Someone correct me if I'm wrong

[OopsieDaisy]

Yea it is. I really hope I'm wrong on RN and the rest of town are on the ball here.

VOTE: Random Nurse

[OopsieDaisy]

E-1 ^^

[OopsieDaisy]

yea i'm sleeping too now, it's like 3am where i am sdgjsgk;

[OopsieDaisy]

Daisy and Sky or Daisy and KKFC
Either way, Daisy is in my solve

Why can't it be Skygazer and KKFC in your eyes?

[OopsieDaisy]

iamveryhappy

(Hammered) -

Deltabreedy

, KatyKimFanClub, Elements,

PenguinPower

, OopsieDaisy
KatyKimFanClub (1) - Skygazer
OopsieDaisy (1) -

iamveryhappy

Random Nurse

(1) -

KittyTacky

KittyTacky

(1) -

Random Nurse

Not Voting
- N/A

Random Nurse

(Hammered) - Skygazer, KatyKimFanClub, OopsieDaisy,

PenguinPower

OopsieDaisy (2) - Elements,

KittyTacky

PenguinPower

(1) -

Random Nurse

I've put Kitty in light green because I'm pretty sure PP got Kitty as VT. I saw the ice cream stuff at the start of the day, but it wasn't until PP stepped in after my vote on Kitty to assert that Kitty was a bad vote that I realised what had happened.

Cheeky VCA probably tells us KKFC/Skygazer aren't together so ignore my above question. Sky being one of the only people pushing his wagon at the end of D1 might say something, especially with Sky vocally announcing how they felt that KKFC was more scummy than IAVH multiple times iirc.

[OopsieDaisy]

KKFC/Elements makes the absolute most sense to me here.

Aside from that, is Elements/Skygazer a possibility? It basically comes down to whether or not my logic around the "intent to hammer" post is correct, because I think that's the only thing stopping this team from making sense in my head.

[OopsieDaisy]

What dies simple mean again?

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Simple

Means the action only works on vts and goons

[OopsieDaisy]

right now based on elements posting i wanna say kkfc/oopsie but i'll do some pondering on it

El can easily post like this as scum with KKFC

[OopsieDaisy]

if you're town then it has to be elements/oopsie fmpov which would be an interesting pairing based on their associatives throughout this game

why can it not be kkfc and elements? that's my solve right now

[OopsieDaisy]

in that hypothetical kkfc was town

ooo yep i can read lmao

[OopsieDaisy]

elements, could you talk more about what led you to scumreading oopsie yesterday?

scratch that i found your post about it

Since then I also think she joined the RN wagon too readily. Can't quote cos on mobile atm

WHAT?? I had no choice I was dragged onto that wagon kicking and screaming.

[OopsieDaisy]

You and KKFC literally admitted, yourselves, that my vote was forced.

[OopsieDaisy]

Did you offer an alternative vote for the day at any point?

KKFC was my preferred vote

[OopsieDaisy]

You still want kkfc today?

Yep, or you.

I think the associatives around you and KKFC are so clear. I know I've been harking on about the intent to hammer post for this entire game but that singlehandedly halted the momentum behind the KKFC wagon early game. I think you were covering for your teammate.

[OopsieDaisy]

Beyond that there hasn't been a single interaction between you and KKFC that has made me feel you're not on the same team. The wagonomics check out, you voted me to distance from the RN wagon whilst simultaneously pressuring me onto it, and bar that your votes have all been on flipped townies.

[OopsieDaisy]

So you townread sky

Due to associatives ja. From my POV you're not scum with Sky because the intent to hammer post would then make no sense, and KKFC isn't scum with Sky because Sky was hard pushing that wagon the entirety of Day 1.

[OopsieDaisy]

Even if like, the claim feels like the perfect scum claim to explain why PP wasn't protected.

[OopsieDaisy]

if we're being realistic, if i had the ability to protect PP then this game would be completely broken due to follow the cop strats. i was hoping scum wouldn't think too hard about setup spec and just panic kill me. day one crumb hints at me being a bodyguard with the line "if i die."

if i were scum i don't think i'd have any motivation to fakeclaim a protective role considering there was no way i was being eliminated yesterday anyways

yea i was more talking about the role itself rather than the timing. i think the timing doesn't make sense as scum, you'd just be drawing attention to yourself for no reason.

[OopsieDaisy]

i feel like half of the words in oopsie's iso are dedicated to KKFC

I have an obsession :3

[OopsieDaisy]

So you townread sky

From my POV you're not scum with Sky because the intent to hammer post would then make no sense

could you elaborate on this because i don't see the connection

So with scum!El, I pride myself in being able to find the agenda behind their posting, because scum!El always has an agenda.

Now, El revealed in Day 1 that the "intent to hammer" post had an agenda, they said it was a play made to force reactions out of the people on the wagon and to try and flush out any teammates trying to bus. That's the townie agenda they presented.

I think a scum!El would make that post if scum!KKFC was their partner, with the agenda being actually to unwind the wagon by scaring players' votes off of it with the threat of a hammer.

But where I've been stuck the whole game is that I don't see what a scum!Elements has to gain from making an intent to hammer post that early *if* KKFC isn't their partner. Like why? Where's that scum agenda?

[OopsieDaisy]

i'll need to think a bit more on elements vs kkfc. i think oopsie is always scum here though.

[OopsieDaisy]

like oopsie spent a lot of time shading kkfc but didnt really commit or seem to want to actually push the wagon through

I did want to push it through end of Day 2 but no one else was.

[OopsieDaisy]

Like my vote has been on KKFC more than any other slot in this game prolly

[OopsieDaisy]

is there anything that made you lose your PP suspicions besides the crumb?

What PP suspicions?

[OopsieDaisy]

I just checked up on PP in my ISO post at the start of Day 2 because of Delta's suspicions. Wanted to see if I shared the same worries after a look-over or not.

[OopsieDaisy]

like oopsie spent a lot of time shading kkfc but didnt really commit or seem to want to actually push the wagon through

I did want to push it through end of Day 2 but no one else was.

you laid down your first kkfc vote 48 hours before deadline (after singing a tune about how your read had changed on them) and didn't do any real pushing. when kkfc got some strong pressure on them day one you jumped ship for two townie wagons (rn / iavh).

What do you think i could have done differently in that scenario to get a successful push on KKFC through? I tried my hardest lmao

[OopsieDaisy]

Like I was put in a situation where because of my RN townread that had popped up and Kitty getting cleared by PP, I had to reevaluate my entire townpool. KKFC and Elements went from an outside possibility to a very likely team because of that thought process.

[OopsieDaisy]

I meant vote, but thanks

VOTE: KKFC

Oh shit there's only 20 hours left

you could have done some pushing or solving between these posts but there was just radio silence

I get that but I had both done solving in my post previous to the vote, and spent the entire next day on it. I think this is a bit of an unfair criticism. I came to a realisation late in the day and tried to push it through as best I could.

[OopsieDaisy]

Like why as scum do I make a big song and dance about reading RN as town and push onto my scumpartner if the counterwagon is me? Isn't it just 10 times easier for me to sheep PP there on RN?

I guess it helps associatives but it's a hella risky play.

[OopsieDaisy]

if elements were scum with kkfc, they weren't doing a very good job at fueling counterwagons.

this is irrelevant if the wagon itself dies down actively because of what elements did. by shutting down the momentum against kkfc and eventually later on casting a vote on the IAVH wagon, elements would've done everything they needed to do to protect their partner in that day 1.

[OopsieDaisy]

another issue i have with kkfc/elements is that they just haven't rly interacted at all this game. which it why it surprises me so much when I see KKFC post a readlist with El topping it in 821.

[OopsieDaisy]

it's also a case where if you want to pair me with kkfc or el, both of those scenarios involve busses at critical moments in the game. el and kkfc have given each other a much easier time than they've given to other slots in this game and that's a massive concern.

[OopsieDaisy]

Alright gamers I dealt with the KKFC/me world yesterday, looks like I gotta deal with the Elements/me world today.

You still want kkfc today?

Yep, or you.

I think the associatives around you and KKFC are so clear. I know I've been harking on about the intent to hammer post for this entire game but that singlehandedly halted the momentum behind the KKFC wagon early game. I think you were covering for your teammate.

I'm sorry but this doesn't feel true at all. If you read the wagon on me the intent to hammer post wasn't what ended it.
Skygazer puts me at E-1 (I have votes from Daisy and iavh at this point for Meta reasons) at 203, intent to hammer post is 206, discussion related to wagon continues for a while?

This is a pretty blatant misrep of what happened to be honest.

I don't think it's a blatant misrep. PP literally unvoted you because of Elements' post. The Elements post is where the wagon goes from progressing to regresssing.

The idea that there are "clear KKFC/Elements" associatives and also that we haven't interacted this game just seems contradictory.

Daisy's case on me is pretty obviously scum motivated.

No that's what makes you such a likely team. One of the most basic mafia distancing strategies that exists in the game is the act of just ignoring each other and pushing elsewhere, and this is a strategy that I 100% expected to see this game because the mafia team is small and so bussing is so much more harmful. From what I remember reading your posts, there hasn't been a satisfying progression on your read of Elements at all. You had El top of your readlist end of Day 2, yet I can't remember a reason why.

@Skygazer I will make my case later for Daisy/Elements, but I urge you to look at the context of 96, where Daisy unvotes her partner and pushes what we should all see by now is a premature meta case on me that she only really ever retracted in name. Like, do we think that this read that I'm a passive player is even fair to give on post 96 of a game? It has to be because Elements is at 3 votes and there's no other way for Daisy to extricate herself from her RVS vote without her feeling like she looks suspicious.

Again, as I mentioned at the time, early-game meta reads on Page 4/5 are the bread and butter of a town!Daisy game, and I offered an example of a game where I did this exact kind of play as town. It's a better vote than a pure RVS vote, which is what my Elements vote was, because there is at least some solid information backing up the vote and it typically generates some strong discussion (which it did!!). I also think your point about Elements being at 3 votes is bogus because Elements was literally voting themselves at the time, so I don't understand why I as a scumparter to Elements would be in a rush to alleviate the pressure there if Elements wanted a wagon on themselves?

The evolution of Daisy's reads on Elements Day 2 makes no sense.

I will say El is now reading a bit different to me after revealing that the intent to hammer post had an agenda. As I've said before my read on Elements is based on whether their posts have a deep running agenda (scummy) or are mostly surface level and a bit trolly (townie). Revealing that the intent to hammer post had strong thought behind it surprises me a bit, tho I've been wrong here plenty of times before.

Daisy presumably scumreads Elements here.

Elements could've been scum looking for a quick hammer but I think that's fairly unlikely considering the explanations we've received.

There's literally no Elements additional explanation of the intent to hammer post between these two posts. Elements talks about why they did it earlier, but Daisy scumreads Elements after they explain their reasoning, that was the whole logic behind the scumread in the first place.

What you're seeing here is the first post noting that if the binary agenda read I have is right, we've got a scum!Elements here. And then the second post adds a bit of nuance. I'm trying to figure out there why a scum!Elements makes that post in a town!KKFC world, and this is a question I haven't been able to find a satisfying answer to the whole game. Hunting for a hammer *that* early in Day 1 just isn't a good play as scum and that's what I was working out in that post. I don't understand how I can be clearer with my read on Elements, it feels like I've had to make these same points over and over and over again like I'm in some twisted groundhog day mafia game lmao.

The logic that Daisy keeps going back to is that a scum!Elements has no reason to make an intent to hammer post on a town!KKFC. This is repeated often, and I think that this logic, coupled with Daisy's persistent pushes on me in Day 1 and Day 2, were meant to try to make her partner look town once I flipped.

There's this idea that Elements is scummy, yet if I'm town then Elements can't be scum, but since I'm more scummy than Elements, I should be flipped first, that is entirely too convenient for this game.

Sky and Kitty surely you see this.

Then give me the reason!!! If you're so sure I've been setting you up with my logic on Elements, can you tell me why Elements makes that intent to hammer post as scum if you're town? I have been asking this question for the vast majority of this game and not a single player has been able to give a satisfying answer bar what I have with you and Elements both being scum together.

[OopsieDaisy]

I don't think it's a blatant misrep. PP literally unvoted you because of Elements' post. The Elements post is where the wagon goes from progressing to regresssing.

The wagon literally cannot progress from E-1 what do you mean? He unvotes because he doesn't want an errant hammer, it's not like he doesn't scumread me anymore. You can see this from the fact that he continues to interrogate me for like another 2 pages.

And who do you think caused that unvote out of a fear of an errant hammer?

[OopsieDaisy]

Why haven't you presented ANY other possible partners for Elements this entire game? You said it's not RN, you said it was possibly Skygazer yesterday but only if I was the partner. Elements has consistently been in your second tier of reads, but why have you only thought it possible for Elements to be partners with me?

You know exactly why I think Elements can only be partnered with you. I don't think I can be clearer. I know Elements very very well as a mafia player we've been playing together for years. I do not know why Elements makes that intent to hammer post if they're scum and you're town.

There's also the fact that well, Kitty is confirmed and Sky will prolly be confirmed in the night (and doesn't make sense with either of you as a scumpartner). The only possibility left in this game FMPOV is you and Elements, and lo and behold that possibility has been there in my head since Day 1.

I feel vindicated right now and yet no-one else seems to be able to see it and it's so frustrating.

[OopsieDaisy]

Unless there's some world where Skygazer sits on their scumpartner the entirety of Day 1 or I'm completely off-base with the read I have on Elements (scum with kkfc, don't think they work with anyone else), I am right.

[OopsieDaisy]

You know exactly why I think Elements can only be partnered with you. I don't think I can be clearer. I know Elements very very well as a mafia player we've been playing together for years. I do not know why Elements makes that intent to hammer post if they're scum and you're town.

Then why haven't you pushed Elements since post 299?

Because Day 1 and Day 2 pushing someone out based on the fact they can only be scum with one player makes absolutely no sense. The odds just aren't in your favour there are they? Now that the POE has shrunk considerably I'm very confident that my read is correct.

I've also been pushing you and Elements as scum this entire day phase.

[OopsieDaisy]

Unless there's some world where Skygazer sits on their scumpartner the entirety of Day 1 or I'm completely off-base with the read I have on Elements (scum with kkfc, don't think they work with anyone else), I am right.

So let me get this straight. You've known the scumteam has been me and Elements for a while then. Since your information on Skygazer is coming from a Day 1 voting pattern.

No, I came to this realisation today when looking back and colour coding the wagons. You can see this realisation in post 889. This is why I felt the Skygazer/KKFC scumteam was possible on Day 2 but not Day 3.

[OopsieDaisy]

You sure asked me a lot of questions, and you were more confident in my being scum.

If Elements only had one possible partner ever... why not try to find out more earlier in the game? Was your hypothetical town plan waiting until the game got to ELO to confront Elements?

There's no need to hunt for it earlier in the game. I felt that the pairing would naturally solve itself as slots flipped. And if I was able to get a flip out of the two, I wanted it to be you cause imo you had more possible scumpartners both on Day 1 and Day 2. Keep in mind because I never finished my Skygazer ISO the fact they were on you all of Day 1 wasn't at the forefront of my mind, so I also felt that was a possible world pre-today.

[OopsieDaisy]

cause right now i'm sat on:
skygazer who i townread super hard i rly liked their day 1
pp who i definitely like this game
elements who could be paired with kkfc but otherwise i don't see scum motivation in their "intent to hammer" post
kkfc who's growing on me as he gets to play without pressure. i maintain that his twilight readlist was super good to see and it gave my read a big boost here

Explain this post then?

Yea this was my townpool pre-knowing what check PP got onto Kitty and pre-the wagon that made me think RN was town. You and Elements were both in it. It was only when I realised Kitty/RN were likely town that I reevaluated these slots.

[OopsieDaisy]

Ultimately the read I was most confident on out of the four was my Elements read, so I stuck on it. Nothing had presented itself that contradicted a KKFC/Elements scumpair.

[OopsieDaisy]

Your reasoning for me and Elements today is that Elements cannot be scum if I was town. Yet this entire game you've operated as though I wasn't town. So, once again, why did you never question Elements on anything?

You have a player in your pool who can only be partners with someone who to you has been scummy since Page 4.

I read you as town from twilight D1 up until my RN realisation in D2 and the following reevaluation of my reads. My read on you has not been that you have been consistently scummy the entire game.

[OopsieDaisy]

Anyways I think a break is probably in order, we've been going at it for a good couple pages. Prolly best to see what the rest of the group thinks of this.

[OopsieDaisy]

VOTE: Oopsiedaisy

[OopsieDaisy]

at this point i feel like itd be unfair to strategize considering that seemed like a "time to end the day hammer"

anyone know any good jokes?

Knock knock

[OopsieDaisy]

whos there

Doctor

[OopsieDaisy]

doctor who

u got it <3

[OopsieDaisy]

wait Daisy, are you a Dr Who fan?!

I know I know, it's a v big surprise

[OopsieDaisy]

yea ggs everyone

felt like the game was going rly rly well for us but in final 5 it felt like we just hit a wall. everyone in town managed to townread each other super strongly by the end of it and we were the two left. still happy with how we played i'm not sure how we could've avoided that situation but yea wpwp

[OopsieDaisy]

Oh ja have you guys got any tips in terms of like, what you thought I coulda done better as scum there?