Open 887: Coalition of Frogs (Game Over)

[Hero at Heart]

first to confrim AND first to post. I'm lucky!
Pedit: noooo

[Hero at Heart]

HEAL: Datisi

VOTE: Bella how dare you steal my first post!

[Hero at Heart]

hello! how u doin?


bella:

A Coalition is agreed when five people have the exact same set of 5 players
in their Coalition

[Hero at Heart]

could you two please add pronouns to your profile

i'd rather not, i've intentionally left them out. just use what makes sense to you and i promise i won't be offended

HEAL: hero at heart
HEAL: merlyn
VOTE: theholdsteady

super heal: datisi

sure i'll join this wagon
VOTE: THS

[Hero at Heart]

super heal: datisi

ok, not sure this is super clear, i meant i townread datisi

[Hero at Heart]

i disagree on ari's take on kittens

if THS is scum, partner is probably ari or kitten.

leaning ari actually for tmi'ing kitten

[Hero at Heart]

also heads up:
this is an alt, i made it to try to play in a more chill manner because i got sick of tryharding until i get tilted, but right now struglling to get into the correct headspace. don't be surprised if i suddenly (or gradually) change my playstyle.

[Hero at Heart]

cool lol

i might as well:

HEAL: Datisi, Hero, Bella, Merlyn

Drew do you want in?

[Hero at Heart]

why tho

vibes + meta + gut + I like your reads which is +town

i am willing to townlock you just to annoy anyone who's scumreading you

[Hero at Heart]

would actually not mind winning this game on page 10 with an all town coalition.

[Hero at Heart]

unfortunate - i was actually thinking THS and hero make a cute scum team together

THS could be scum. and well hero could too i'm pretty bad at this game

nah, your reads are alright

cool lol

i might as well:

HEAL: Datisi, Hero, Bella, Merlyn

Drew do you want in?

I mean, if you think I should be.

well i am tryin to decide between you and implo for the fifth since you are both townie. do you have any input on this that can help me?

i still think the thought process is flawed but i like the thought process itself form you (i sweat and question my life choices as i type that out)

bruh.

[Hero at Heart]

i would say aristeia is pocketing datisi but the truth is, datisi is already pre-pocketed from before game started.

[Hero at Heart]

i will *maybe* try to do a more serious analysis of this page later but rn i have a question:

aristeia could you please explain your read on me and the read on THS?

[Hero at Heart]

Spoiler: aristeia quotes

i thought your opening posts were kind of empty and your post explaining mech to bella felt like a scumpost in that scum like to post helpful answers for townies because its something they can do that's truthful and establish rapport. your focus on bella felt kinda pockety.

I don't really have a read on THS, he felt kind of bland in his opening but the thing that made me think you could be teamed with him was

if THS is scum, partner is probably ari or kitten.

which feels like you're kind of preflipping his as scum and lining up the next two lims afterwards

cool lol

i might as well:

HEAL: Datisi, Hero, Bella, Merlyn

Drew do you want in?

I don't really think you have this many townreads already and the reach out to drew feels ?

would actually not mind winning this game on page 10 with an all town coalition.

this feels kinda lamist

i'll be honest, i saw that you made multiple posts and i kinda wanted to TR the effort and the fact that you are giving multiple reasons rather than one, but actually these reasons sounds reachy af.

specifically, i didn't target bella at all, i just answered a question she had. you'd have to squint hard to read that as me focusing her, especially since that's probably my only interaction with her slot. and sure, scum *could* answer the question but are you saying that town would just ignore it? that's really ??? of you.

second, do u have a problem with me being confident about my reads and feeling like we're awesome enough to win before page 10?

I guess if you're like one specific person this might be townie for you but I don't really enjoy alt speculation so I am applying base rates

i am indeed one specific person, no idea if the person you're thinking of, but i think my playstyle is in general pretty unique so if u town you can safely assume it is actually townie for me.

what do you mean?

i mean like, what you're saying about why scum-mala doesn't sus me on page 2 is all logically valid, but i don't think it's realistic to think she would've actually thought about all of that before making that post? especially as i don't think she's that kind of player

seconded even though i don't know mala.

i would say aristeia is pocketing datisi but the truth is, datisi is already pre-pocketed from before game started.

maybe >_>

do you think i'm wrong though?

depends. what's your read on her rn?

i thought your opening posts were kind of empty and your post explaining mech to bella felt like a scumpost in that scum like to post helpful answers for townies because its something they can do that's truthful and establish rapport. your focus on bella felt kinda pockety.

I don't really have a read on THS, he felt kind of bland in his opening but the thing that made me think you could be teamed with him was

if THS is scum, partner is probably ari or kitten.

which feels like you're kind of preflipping his as scum and lining up the next two lims afterwards

this is kinda funny because i thought THS is the one that's pocketing bella :<

idk if pocketing is the word i'd choose, but i definitely felt his townread of bella felt very fake and unnatural, so yeah that's part of my SR on him (also the way he explained why he is including himself in his coalition felt scummy as well)

[Hero at Heart]

i am still holding off comment on aristeia/datisi discussion of kittens until later when i have more time.

[Hero at Heart]

I really hope aristeia is trolling

this is such a bad line because you don't really explain which of the reasoning is actually reachy or invalid etc - its just saying oh i would townread you but alas you are reachy which is kind of ??

i literally explained why on the next line of my post.
but if you want more, i also thought your scumreading of my interaction with bella is a reach. oh nvm that was the explanation i gave already. yeah idk why you think i didn't explain it.

all three of your first three posts had something to do with bella and none of them really had any meaningful intent to sort her.

you're kidding, right? do you expect me to try and sort someone based on a "first" post (a post where they say "first!", if unclear) and a mech question? and do you actually expect me to sort someone with my first post which i've literally written before anyone else has posted?

Personally I've never won coalition on page 10 and if you're town and you actually get us an early win I would be quite happy about that .

i personally really hope you are town here because i would be delighted to win with you.

but please give me a reason to townread you and not just shittunneling me (no offense meant)

Pedit: i agree with bella on being concerned about the volume of discussion of malakitten's post.

and Merlyn i will answer you about THS in my next post

[Hero at Heart]

cool lol

i might as well:

HEAL: Datisi, Hero, Bella, Merlyn

Drew do you want in?

How opportunistic can you be. you basically agree with my two (three? I'm not sure if you're saying you townread Drew here) townreads here while ALSO putting yourself in the coalition, while at the same time saying "idk, THS seems like scum for the bella read and putting himself in the coalition". you're just parroting the wrong read already espoused by datisi hoping no one will notice.

VOTE: Hero at Heart

no, i am not sheeping datisi's read on you. i have my own reasons to sr you. they are down below, after where i quote Merlyn.

i am also not copying any of your reads. you tr'd bella's opening, i thought it was null. i liked her page 2 thing about being proud that she had a good take. it's not the best read ever, but it's a read and i also liked her post on this page so i'm keeping it. it's also disingenuous to say i'm copying you on datisi and drew because i liked datisi before i even saw your post liking him (his post 24 i liked and immediately replied to, before i saw your post 30), and drew is the person i'm least townreading out of the 5/6 people i'm townreading (depending if you count myself).

what did THS do that's making folx scumread them again?

Here:

HEAL: Bellaphant

i like that bella made certain the choice wasn't going to be locked before they decided to join in. seems like a good first choice for collation.

to me this is a weird and pretty forced townread, i really don't understand how a town POV would reach this read. and the tone is off. feels over-explainy.

First!

first to confrim AND first to post. I'm lucky!
Pedit: noooo

could you two please add pronouns to your profile

this is super subjective but i just feel a nullscum vibe from this post, i can't explain it other than it's vibe.

HEAL: TheHoldSteady well of course i'm going to want to put myself in this also.

feels way over-explainy and apologetic for doing something any townie would do without thinking twice.

hello! how u doin?

i feel as though some burden of many years has been lifted, but i can't quite put my finger on it.

also jet lag

your scum meeting was that far away huh

this feels like a forced scumread which isn't really based on anything, could possibly be used later on to show that THS has scumreads but could also be easily forgotten if THS decides not to push implo.

[Hero at Heart]

anyway i'm going to hang out with friends now so i won't be able to post.

[Hero at Heart]

i'm just going to make a note that I

intentionally

didn't explain all of this immediately because i am trying very hard not to tryhard and to ebgage the thread casually, but frankly this isn't working.

[Hero at Heart]

but please give me a reason to townread you and not just shittunneling me (no offense meant)

I don't think I am "shittunneling" you as you so eloquently put it.

I'm not very serious about this scumread, it's just a first impression from early in the game - the only reason I am even posting so much about it is because you asked me to.

okay, makes sense

but iirc i also asked about THS read, could you please explain it as well?

[Hero at Heart]

Votecount 1.2

It is currently the Coalition Phase. With 9 players alive, it takes 5 votes to confirm a coalition. Day 1 ends in (expired on 2023-10-11 13:11:19).

Coalition Votes

Datisi

- Aristeia

Datisi

- Bellaphant

Datisi, Hero at Heart, Merlyn

- Datisi

Bellaphant

- Doctor Drew

Bellaphant, Datisi, Hero at Heart, Merlyn

- Hero at Heart

Bellaphant, Doctor Drew, TheHoldSteady

- TheHoldSteady

Not Voting (3)

- implosion, Malakittens, Merlyn

Coalition Votes

TheHoldSteady (2)

- Datisi, Hero at Heart

Aristeia (1)

- Merlyn

Hero at Heart (1)

- TheHoldSteady

Not Voting (5)

- Aristeia, Bellaphant, Doctor Drew, implosion, Malakittens

Flavour

Mod is the second coalition votes supposed to be elim votes?

[Hero at Heart]

I thought it was town because it showed a level of caution that I would expect to see from a town player who is new to the setup. So we had differing views on Bella’s first post. But that’s not scum-indicative, it just means we interpreted things differently.

i didn't say it was scum indicative lol. i said that my reads were different from yours, when you claimed they were similar:

How opportunistic can you be. you basically agree with my two (three? I'm not sure if you're saying you townread Drew here) townreads here while ALSO putting yourself in the coalition, while at the same time saying "idk, THS seems like scum for the bella read and putting himself in the coalition".

like i scumread you for your tr on bella's entrance which i thought was fake. you implied i also tr'd her entrance. i explained that i didn't. you said i scumread for putting you in coalition but also putting myself in coalition. i explained that i didn't like the WAY you went about it. i did it differently.

i can be wrong, of course. but right now all the vibes am getting from you are the wrong kind of vibes. if i can see you posting things sounding townie, i might re-evaluate.

[Hero at Heart]

THS is accusing hero of being scum for scumreading him while having the "same" views as him, but completely ignoring the fact on how those views came to be, when something like that is very relevant, is uh, a choice

exactly

[Hero at Heart]

I just typically default to using the avatar to gauge pronouns for posters who don’t have them listed and avatar isn’t the most accurate gauge. It’s fine if you intentionally don’t care what people call you though. wasn’t a game related comment at all.

this is fair

OK well you’re experienced and you’re familiar with what this setup is. i’m not, and maybe i thought my idea was more novel than it actually is.

interesting. what makes you think i'm experienced and familiar with the setup?

ehh, a joke is a joke. i don't have any read on implosion at all. what is the best mo for scum in this phase? if you need one scum in the coalition you want to gain enough people’s trust. picking a player i don’t know out of the blue and being like "they’re scum” right out of the gate doesn’t really fit the MO of the setup.

what would you do then if you were scum?
for instance, i thought it made perfect sense for scum to pick a player (i.e. bella) and townread them off the gate. i know you are talking about the implo scumread here, but i guess it could be a mistake? scum can't be expected to act rationally 100% of the time.

great, now i feel like i'm both being too lenient with THS and simultaneously confbiasing against them.

[Hero at Heart]

weak townread because i still feel the amount of thoughts in reads + the energy is like, closer to her towngame than her scumgame

but you will notice she's not in my coalition right now, so. yeah

understandable, she is efforting more than in her scumgame which is also something i mentioned i wanted to tr earlier.

i guess i have no choice but to read her casing of kittens being town / scum with you

otherwise, still looking forward for her read on THS, who she said I could be teamed with twice.

[Hero at Heart]

I wonder if ths is an alt?

they recently completed severalgames in the newbie queue so i'd imagine they are new to the site.

[Hero at Heart]

@mod if you don't mind fixing the broken tag

[Hero at Heart]

i reread aristeia/datisi, didn't get anything AI out of it tbh. i feel meh about the whole thing - Datisi's questioning is good, aristeia's reasoning is plausible for town!her but it's not something i'm townreading. i still get a bit of a tmi ping on her being so sure kittens is town.

i also reread these:

i thought your opening posts were kind of empty and your post explaining mech to bella felt like a scumpost in that scum like to post helpful answers for townies because its something they can do that's truthful and establish rapport. your focus on bella felt kinda pockety.

I don't really have a read on THS, he felt kind of bland in his opening but the thing that made me think you could be teamed with him was

if THS is scum, partner is probably ari or kitten.

which feels like you're kind of preflipping his as scum and lining up the next two lims afterwards

it's funny that you say that, because i am actually not interested in limming anyone. as i said, i am planning to 100% win this game in the coalition phase.
also, in context it made sense that i assumed THS was scum because i'd just voted him 2 posts prior and continuing that train of thought.

cool lol

i might as well:

HEAL: Datisi, Hero, Bella, Merlyn

Drew do you want in?

I don't really think you have this many townreads already and the reach out to drew feels ?

reach to drew was an attempt to sort him which didn't work.
as to townreads - i tend to have a lot of strong townreads compared to other players, sometimes (often) they are wrong, but a lot of the time they are right. it's a matter of playstyle.

would actually not mind winning this game on page 10 with an all town coalition.

lol I wonder if I just guessed your main

probably not cause this ain't somethin' i would say on my main i think

Ari and Datisi
Did not just have a back and forth conv about me
Did they?
They did.

lol
what do you think of it?

So my problem is I don’t think I have seen ari scum so idk what her scum game would look like.

her scumgame is very convincing.

So this makes me just not want to play Datisi in a coalition until I sort dats out further.
I lowkey am townreading ari, but then again never seen scum her so I wouldn’t want to place her in a coalition bc of that.

who are you

willing

to put in the coalition then?
and also, why does not knowing aristeia's scum meta prevent you from putting her in if you think she's town this game?

[Hero at Heart]

because if you like think its 2 scum in 3 the logical next step is to coalition 5 out of the other 6. here it felt more like you were lining up lims and it didnt make sense why you thought me/mala would be partners to him in the first place.

i did coalition 4 out of the other 6 and was waiting for drew to townspew himself so i could add him to coalition.

this has still not happened (despite him having slightly >rand for being town), and i actually also want a bit more content from merlyn (she really doesn't have that much content), but once they both provide content i like (if they do), then yeah i'll do that coalition.

[Hero at Heart]

well if you want to play town mayor and win on page 10 i can sit back and sheep you if you are so confident

you would? that's really sweet

[Hero at Heart]

this might sound really silly but:
@drew, merlyn, kittens, implo - feel free to townspew yourself if you are town

[Hero at Heart]

One thing to remember is that two scum flying under the radar might pass day one in a normal game but it would lead to a loss here. One scum has to take an active, town-appearing role or the game is lost. So I'm looking for a scum here that is more on the proactive side.

who do you think that is? me?

[Hero at Heart]

Let me let you in on something: I have the unique POV where I know there was incorrectly placed suspicion on a town slot. You weren't as subtle about suspecting me as I was expecting you to be. So I'm looking at others in the thread who might subtly take advantage of the heat on my slot.

two questions:
1. if i understood correctly, your sr on me was based on perceiving me as subtly trying to ride your wagon. does me not being as subtle aa you were expecting me to be change your viewpoint on me?
2. well, have you looked at the others? what did you see?

[Hero at Heart]

We've still got time but let's get some organization to our approach. I'd like to challenge everyone, by Friday, to come up with 2-3 people you absolutely want in your coalition, and 2-3 people you don't.

this posts feels really off, but not even in a scummy way. it feels like THS has to have zero gamestate awarenessbto make this post when multiple other people have already expressed their preferred coalition and he hasn't.
i doubt this is scum indicative, but i am noting it bc it's weird and i would like to have people's thoughts on this, if they have any thoughts.

[Hero at Heart]

are you someone who's played with me much?

nope!

i do not like this post. but also i absolutely turbo tunneled doctor drew in the one game we played together and we were both town.

understandable.

This is a really fascinating line. It's like, almost lampshading the fact that he is saying "well, i was never scumreading implosion" in a post about how it's pretty townie of him to immediately call me scum (unless i'm misinterpreting). But I think it is +town just for the brazenness of a seemingly relatively new player being like "nah i'm really not playing how scum would be playing in this setup lol" in this way.

i think you misinterpreted it because he was replying to me saying it was scummy to make that joke.
does that change your read of him?

I think THS is very town. his posting on the whole has a certain verve to it that feels like there's real opinionatedness and like, the right motivation behind it.

i am curious about that, could you please expand more on it?

[Hero at Heart]

It feels overexplainy in the way of scum who feels the need to appear justified rather than town who actually has reasons behind what they're doing

good point - i felt hesitant to tr that post but didn't know why. this point is actually very subtly scummy.

hard leaning town on implo atp, slight scumread on drew.

I don't have any real reads yet, I'm not sure why. Even the folx I have some town leans on are so tentative I don't really know if they're townleans.

could you tell us your townleans even if they're weak?

[Hero at Heart]

disagree somewhat with implo's take on THS, sure it's not necessarily a play someone with years of experience as scum would make, but it is still a scumtell in my book to be making a scumreadthis way. i also feel THS would approach the accusations differently if town (focus more on explaining what they did rather than on whether they had reason to do it as scum).

In both cases I wanted to acknowledge that both reads could be wrong and wanted to offer a scenario for if I am wrong and how it would be.

i am quite confused by what you mean here.

actually like, idk how much exp you have with mala, i don't have that much, but she doesn't strike me as a sort of thinking 5 steps ahead scum player (no offense) that you're making her out to be there, do you think it's like, likely that scum-mala would've been thinking so much about something like that on page 2?

Hear me out.

Reading that post again by Dats, doesn't it read as he knows you are town?

not rlly.

if anything it sounds like

aristeia

knows that kittens is town. did you read just the part kittens quoted or the whole back and forth they had?

[Hero at Heart]

This is bullshit.

You are doing mental gymnastics to town read THS, Merlyn just said 'Hey, I have seen them in the wild, they don't fuck around as scum'.

And you said nope, you aren't listening to actual first hand meta, and like I said assigning how you would play to another person.

I don't even think you are scum, just doing what I see too often from town who doesn't observe enough.

i wanna see how this develops


also, to answer 170 - i dunno. do you think it's ai?

[Hero at Heart]

ari, kittens, THS - what do you think of drew/implosion on page 7?

[Hero at Heart]

@merlyn, i have another question:
how much experience do you have playing scum? both on this site and in general.

[Hero at Heart]

and @datisi thanks for holding off your thoughts.

[Hero at Heart]

ari, kittens, THS - what do you think of drew/implosion on page 7?

not much of anything tbh

aren't you supposed to be the confident one carrying us to the easy win

Spoiler: fluffy answer

well i mean i don't mind being a town mayor, but i'm a democratic mayor and i listen to my people, duh.

Spoiler: serious answer

i am trying to sort you, THS and kittens based on your answers. also if kittens or THS read this before answering, do me a favor and answer truthfully so i can sort you properly.[/quote]

[Hero at Heart]

wow, lots of content which i'll fully read later

just popping in to answer THS:

Answer what truthfully specifically

this question:

ari, kittens, THS - what do you think of drew/implosion on page 7?

[Hero at Heart]

hi, i won't be able to play for much of today, i'll try to read pages 8-9 in the evening maybe, otherwise tomorrow.

[Hero at Heart]

hi

will read all shortly

[Hero at Heart]

@ari, if you had to pick a coalition to form right now, what would it be?

maybe me you implo hero and bella

very much a 6am not very awake thought

that's lowkey the coalition i wanted to do since aristeia started pocketing me

Spoiler: exact point of pocket

well if you want to play town mayor and win on page 10 i can sit back and sheep you if you are so confident

you would? that's really sweet

so how's the sorting going

meh, kittens hasn't posted and you and THS aren't really helpful.

carry me Datisi pls

weird progression i think

when did you even tr datisi?

i think it's just a pocket

HURT: previous
HEAL: datisi, hero, implosion, bella

my next post will be focusing on merlyn

[Hero at Heart]

actually nvm first implo then merlyn

[Hero at Heart]

i'm just going to disengage from the line with Drew. although maybe i won't completely since hero says they want to see how it develops lol but I feel like it's almost certainly one of those things that is practically not going to be actually useful for sorting compared to how much it'd bog down the thread. I think it's probably very likely that Drew and I just sort of parse arguments in incompatible ways.

lol i didn't mean you have to continue i was just curious how it would go. i tr your disengagement though because i agree the discussion probably doesn't get us anywhere.

104, 139 are probably the best examples. In the context of the rest of his posting I think 142 also might even be town-indicative. Part of it is that he has a view/approach to the game he's espousing that feels consistent and like something he's thought about rather than just coming up with something, but the bigger part is the way he's handling suspicion on himself. There's a degree of assuredness in both of those posts that reads as genuine to me.

interesting because these posts

sound

townie but i thought they were not genuine at all - i'll get to this in my THS post (queued after my merlyn post).

Yeah I did miss that, it dampens how much I find that post town significantly.

makes sense

it's scummy that I don't have a set of reads by pg 6 (by page 6!?),

I don't think this is a fair characterization. It's not that you "don't have a set of reads", it's that you hadn't given any at all, in conjunction with you saying that you'd already been townspewing which, no, does not mean "posting literally anything as town".

I do agree there isn't much of a real rush. But I feel like there's been lots of quite useful content so far. I don't really agree with THS's take that scum are necessarily proactive in this setup; yeah, they need to get in the coalition, and actually the point could have some truth to it if people are playing in such a way that the scum

feel

rushed. But I think it's entirely possible for scum to play under the radar, especially if they think their scumbuddy is going to get in to the coalition.

i don't think this post is AI in a vacuum but i like it anyway.

i need to dig into merlyn's posts to fully make sense of your scumread on her (that's why i changed the order)

pedit: okay so who do you tr?

[Hero at Heart]

>be me
>work very hard on sorting ppl
>receive notification
>someone quoted me
>see kittens posted, excited that maybe kittens is actually going to be active
>aristeia quoted me
>post is 3.5 words

[Hero at Heart]

>be me
>work very hard on sorting ppl
>receive notification
>someone quoted me
>see kittens posted, excited that maybe kittens is actually going to be active
>aristeia quoted me
>post is 3.5 words

EBWOP

(this is my first ever attempt at a 4chan greentext. was it good?)

[Hero at Heart]

merlyn:

reason i asked for your experience as scum is i wanted to know if i should tr your boldness in saying you are townspewing

unfortunately i made up my mind not to spend literal hours meta diving people so i will pass on reading your scum games and instead will nulltown read it.

This is gonna look like I just said this bc you gave me an opening, but I'm posting here before I go back and respond to stuff bc I've been thinking about this game and I feel like there's a sense of urgency that I find strange. Like, there's this push to solve by pg 10, it's scummy that I don't have a set of reads by pg 6 (by page 6!?), there's a request to have a set of coalition choices by Friday...

i find this slightly disingenuous tbh - first of all, the page 10 thing was a tongue-in-cheek thing, not actually serious. like i am not

actually

planning on locking in a coalition by page 10. page 15 on the other hand...

kidding

second of all, yes, most players have some reads by page 6. i decided to look into some completed games of yours and apparently you don't have that many reads early on so that's fine, but wouldn't you know it's something that happens?
and the coalition thing by friday is i think just scum flailing

uh you know what, i can see your viewpoint if you actually didn't realize i was kidding earlier.

One of the things I'll be considering is whether I think this rush is scum-driven or just overzealous town (or both). My gut reaction is to say yes

you mean yes it's both or yes it's scum?

I think it's a rush and I don't like the rush. I'm keeping an eye on everyone who seems to be wanting to rush through D1 rn (but that also includes you lol)

townie post on the caveat that merlyn took my joke seriously

Reading that post again by Dats, doesn't it read as he knows you are town?

Uhh...no?

mindmeld?

i'm just going to disengage from the line with Drew. although maybe i won't completely since hero says they want to see how it develops lol but I feel like it's almost certainly one of those things that is practically not going to be actually useful for sorting compared to how much it'd bog down the thread. I think it's probably very likely that Drew and I just sort of parse arguments in incompatible ways.

I like that you said this, I feel like when I see someone stop a 1v1 they tend to be town, I don't think scum has a lot of incentive to stop a spat

mindmeld.

I was kind of going for humor there when I said bc I thought it was a question that deserved a flippant answer. Like, it's not a serious thing to ask a bunch of folks to townspew like it's something someone can come in on the next post and go, "oh! Got it, here's my townspewing".

yeah that's the vibe i got

---

so right now i'm kinda happy with a datisi/hero/merlyn/bella/implosion coalition.
is there anyone who actually SR's these people?

[Hero at Heart]

@ari, if you had to pick a coalition to form right now, what would it be?

maybe me you implo hero and bella

very much a 6am not very awake thought

Mala implo & bella

?

[Hero at Heart]

so right now i'm kinda happy with a datisi/hero/merlyn/bella/implosion coalition.
is there anyone who actually SR's these people?

btw this is not intentional but the literal page 9 pagebottom is my solve which means it's perfect for a page 10 coalition, right?

eh, i'll wait at least 2 more days to see if there's a dramatic change...

[Hero at Heart]

y?

[Hero at Heart]

i will case THS tomorrow btw - i haven't forgotten about that

[Hero at Heart]

@ari, if you had to pick a coalition to form right now, what would it be?

maybe me you implo hero and bella

very much a 6am not very awake thought

Mala implo & bella

?

well datisi doesn't townread mala so he doesn't want her in the coalition

I don't townread you or datisi but if datisi is town then he's probly right about you being town

and if the coalition fails I'll know who I want to vote

why are you sheeping datisi if you are so adamant you aren't townreading him? this really doesn't add up for me

also i have no idea what you mean with the last sentence - are you insinuating that if the coalition fails i'm scum for it?

[Hero at Heart]

drew can you walk me through your read progression on aristeia?

[Hero at Heart]

i will case THS tomorrow btw - i haven't forgotten about that

this still applies btw

[Hero at Heart]

y?

ah.

??

[Hero at Heart]

i just woke up

feeling like a wreck

anyway back to work

[Hero at Heart]

just because I don't townread him doesn't mean I don't want to win with him if he's town.

yeah but you can win with him with a coalition you feel is more pure???

or like, if you think kittens is town over bella and you want to win with datisi, why not include kittens over bella?

if the coalition you are confident is all town fails then yea I would yeet you for it.

can you explain the logic behind this?
like, why confidence = scum?
can town!me not be mistakenly confident?

[Hero at Heart]

like you say you are confident that you will get us a very early win hero

and I personally do not believe you will or that you are town

so i'm happy to sheep you because if you're town and you get it passed and we win then I will win also and thats good

and if you're scum and you fail the coalition i will get to yeet you.

and if you're town and you fail the coalition well thats your own fault for being wrong and ridiculously confident that you could win with it.

well then

what could i do to get you to see am town?

also this is a question i had earlier and forgot about: imagine you were a daycop (which i don't think is even a real role but w/e), and you got a green check on me - how would you feel about this coalition? how confident would you be datisi is town in that situation?
if you got a green check on either me or datisi, what would be your

preferred

coalition?

[Hero at Heart]

k, i really shouldn't be posting when i feel like shit

i'll get back to posting solvy things in a few hours

[Hero at Heart]

what could i do to get you to see am town?

why does it even matter to you that I see you as town? you're already claiming that I'm mafia and pocketing you no?

pocketing = making me want to tr you
so i want to tr you

i am also not that confident now because unless you and THS are doing a level 1000 gambit, you can't be a scumteam together due to both agreeing to teams that don't include either. so this is making me feel like maybe i missed something, therefore trying to see if you are town.

[Hero at Heart]

I will make this as simple as possible for you Hero.

I do not believe you are town or that you will make a winning coalition if you were town in this current game state. I believe the odds to be quite low.

You scumread me - that is fine I am happy to be out of your coalition so that when it fails I do not get scapegoated.

I am offering to sheep you because you expressed that you are quite confident that you will make a winning coalition and win quite quickly.

I would be ecstatic to be proven wrong about everything that I currently think if your coalition succeeds and we win.

well i admit that if you were included in the team and it failed you would be my natural suspect, so i kinda understand that viewpoint lol

but am not scum. if you really think my team will fail, i am sincerely eager to hear what team you think will do better. last time you were asked for a team it included myself and datisi so that's why i am confused why you say you think it will fail.

[Hero at Heart]

ok i finally managed to flip off the tryhard switch in my brain, so yay!


now here's my not very tryhard thoughts about the game state:
i am in no way 100% sure that any one coalition will win the game. my current townreads are like, 99% sure that datisi is town, 90% sure that implo is town, 80% and 70% sure that bella and merlyn are town, respectively. which is not good enough to lock in a coalition. (0.99*0.9*0.8*0.7 is 0.498, or 49.8% which is less than half)
meanwhile drew is going back and forth between townie and scummy, kittens is not providing any meaningful content to sort her by, and aristeia is... well, she's giving me a hard time. so no, am not super confident.
i also don't think i tried to look super confident in the first place, saying "i wouldn't mind winning with an all town coalition by page 10" was supposed to be a joke akin to people saying "wow can't believe i caught scum on page 2". so not super serious. i am not really sure why both merlyn and aristeia took it so seriously tbh.

anyway i would really appreciate if aristeia woud try to work together because i think it's possible she's town and i just want to solve this game and win. and you said you are trying to be friendlier this game but tbh i'm just feeling hostility from you

[Hero at Heart]

also i like bella's last post so she can go up to like 85% town.

[Hero at Heart]

like ari, i feel it's slightly disingenuous for you to be willing to sheep a coalition you don't believe in, only so you can push me afterwards. but i don't think it's a scummy disingenuity, it's just really annoying kind of disingenuity, like you hate me for some reason which i don't get why.

sorry if this is considered inappropriate / personal / toxic / whatever

[Hero at Heart]

ari i have not yet had time to read pages 10-12 properly, can you link where merlyn said that she didn't actually say that?

that sounds like a good catch if it's real

[Hero at Heart]

like ari, i feel it's slightly disingenuous for you to be willing to sheep a coalition you don't believe in, only so you can push me afterwards. but i don't think it's a scummy disingenuity, it's just really annoying kind of disingenuity, like you hate me for some reason which i don't get why.

sorry if this is considered inappropriate / personal / toxic / whatever

I don't understand how you can be confident your coalition will win and also be so hurt that I would be willing to punish you for failure.

The whole point of confidence is that you actually believe in your coalition winning.

That's why I said I found your confidence to feel very fake. Like you want to pretend you will be this person who will lead us to victory or whatever.

I hope I am wrong, that is why I am sheeping your coalition. Not because I want to lim you afterwards or be hostile towards you.

i have literally explained that i am not confident like 2 posts above

[Hero at Heart]

i guess my posting came accross as more confident that i really was?
like yeah i admit, 99% certainty on datisi being town is pretty high, and i have stated i have pretty strong townreads, but i don't think i've really been all that "i will lead us to victory" like you're making me out to have done. if i did it was mainly as a joke and/or in response to you calling me a town mayor.

[Hero at Heart]

go for it

[Hero at Heart]

explain your 99% datisi is town read

um

at first it was pure gut, like i felt his first post just couldn't come from scum. in retrospect i think there's literally zero reason to think that since it's a pretty easy post to fake but whatever.

anyway, the point is that as the game continued i didn't really anything to make me sus datisi at any point? like it might be just confbias, but i saw a lot of things i liked in his posts and nothing much that i didn't like. you know that when someone is town, they just can't help but towntell sometimes? like what merlyn claimed to have done, except with datisi he HAS been actually towntelling all game. i can't point you to a specific post because every post he makes is a towntell?

i hope this doesn't sound pockety as fuck lol
if this were trust fall i'd 100% trust datisi though like 7 pages ago.

pedit: uhhh i may or may not have no experience with scumtisi so please forgive me if my confidence on him is too high

i only know town!datisi

[Hero at Heart]

ok now my confidence is completely shattered

i'll go read up on scum datisi

[Hero at Heart]

explain your 99% datisi is town read

um

at first it was pure gut, like i felt his first post just couldn't come from scum. in retrospect i think there's literally zero reason to think that since it's a pretty easy post to fake but whatever.

anyway, the point is that as the game continued i didn't really anything to make me sus datisi at any point? like it might be just confbias, but i saw a lot of things i liked in his posts and nothing much that i didn't like. you know that when someone is town, they just can't help but towntell sometimes? like what merlyn claimed to have done, except with datisi he HAS been actually towntelling all game. i can't point you to a specific post because every post he makes is a towntell?

i hope this doesn't sound pockety as fuck lol
if this were trust fall i'd 100% trust datisi though like 7 pages ago.

pedit: uhhh i may or may not have no experience with scumtisi so please forgive me if my confidence on him is too high

i only know town!datisi

I'm sorry your 99% datisi is town read sounds extremely fake to me and considering i know who you are it just makes me suspect you even more

wut

if you truly know who i am you should like think it makes perfect sense for me to tr datisi and also think it makes perfect sense for me to have sr'd you earlier

i don't think you know who i am

[Hero at Heart]

ok i will but later because i am actually tilted right now

sry about that

[Hero at Heart]

and i can also give you 10 posts of datisi i thought were townie if you'd like

[Hero at Heart]

ok i will but later because i am actually tilted right now

sry about that

sorry about tilting you, I know I am quite insufferable sometimes.

lol you are not, you are pretty awesome

though i guess you do know how to bite, hehe

anyhow I've calmed down so let me explain my thought process. i also think i've figured out

your

thought process so i'll explain that afterwards and you tell me if i was right.

but basically there's a game we played some time ago - i think you know which one i'm talking about. and datisi was town and you were scum in that game.
and i felt that datisi's entrance massively pinged me as having the exact same vibes as in that game. now ya'll claim that datisi is a scum master so maybe he faked it, but i have little to no experience with scum datisi so to me it looked genuine.
as i said there are other reasons i think/thought/whatever that datisi is town but they are not related to meta so they go in a different post to this, since this one is about meta.
well anyway, in that game you were scum and you were doing very similar things like hedging about datisi and saying you don't really townread him but you don't want to believe he's scum, and i don't think you ever voted him. so to me your approach to datisi this game (wanting to put him in the coalition despite not having a tr on him) felt similar to me which was part of my sr on you. i didn't say that because i didn't want to expose my identity.
and i also thought that you and datisi are very good at finding each other as town because of friends and enemies (and because of a comment you made once which wasn't about you and datisi but i think applies anyway) so it did seem weird to me that you did not find each other as town, and because i was tring datisi then i went ahead and assumed that you are the scum out of both of you.

[Hero at Heart]

ok so now for explaining my tr on datisi:

his 24 felt like he was trying to work the game out of rvs, i liked 2/3 of the reads there (his tr on me and his sr on THS) very much, and i didn't think his read on merlyn (which i thought was meh-ish but sheeped anyway) was ai for him. i also felt his "i didn't want to type out my reads" sounded townie.
then later he engaged aristeia about her read on kittens, and at the time it felt townie to me that he was simultaneously disagreeing with her but also townreading her. his comment about doubting his tr of ari both sounded like an uninformed townie on its own, but also sounded distinctly like his town game that i've already referred to.

is this a reasonable explanation aristeia or do you still think it's fake?

btw i typed all of this without ever looking at previous pages so there's a large chance there are more townie things he did that i forgot about.

[Hero at Heart]

now for my theory on aristeia's thought process:

basically i think that what happened with regard to you thinking that my tr if datisi is fake based on my identity is that you thought "well datisi was townread that game since he wasn't being super townie by the book, so since in this game he is being extra townie then you should think that's scum indicative for him, because in that other game where he was town he wasn't being so townie"

which is maybe a reasonable assumption to make if you thought i am a good player, which i don't think i am, so i don't make these level 1000 extrapolations that someone is scum because of their townie vibes being too strong.

if this is not what you thought then pls explain.

[Hero at Heart]

if your reasoning is something like because Ari was mafia and Datisi was town in that game we played together then like I have no words

i missed that

it's not because you were mafia and he was town, it's because you were mafia and he was town and you are acting more or less the same.

anyway i guess you can go on having no words lol

[Hero at Heart]

well anyway this post (342) convinced me you are town soooo

[Hero at Heart]

go ahead and laugh at me

i'm waiting

[Hero at Heart]

understandable

i think (hope) that me and aristeia have just foubd each other as town. but i won't be surprised if she just starts tunneling me now, either.

[Hero at Heart]

i'm sorry, playing on an alt was a horrible idea and i won't do it anymore

[Hero at Heart]

because i don't think scum!her would have the thought process of "did hero sr me because i was scum in that game? ugh i can't believe it". do u think she would?

actually i think it's best to leave meta/alts aside and just play the game straight though. i feel it's really confusing and potentially unfair for other players (i had been trying not to talk about it even though i thought it would get me tr'd by ari because it didn't feel right).

right now my tr on datisi stands. i think ari might be town but i actually want to see her reaction to my last few posts first. i want to do that long overdue scum case on THS, so that's probably my next post.

pedit: bella why are you sring me all of a sudden?

[Hero at Heart]

so, long overdue scum case on THS:

implo, you mentioned that you thought this was a townie post:

Let me let you in on something: I have the unique POV where I know there was incorrectly placed suspicion on a town slot. You weren't as subtle about suspecting me as I was expecting you to be. So I'm looking at others in the thread who might subtly take advantage of the heat on my slot.

i think that in a vacuum, yes this is a townie post. the thing with THS this game is that when he started getting pressured hard, he took a sharp turn and started making a lot of "townie" posts about how he's looking at the game - except there's a huge discrepancy between what he claims to be doing and what he is actually doing.

like in the above quoted post he said that he's "looking for people subtly taking advantage of the heat he's getting", but i have not seen a single post by him where he actually points out someone who may be taking advantage of the heat he's getting.


and here:

Let me let you in on something: I have the unique POV where I know there was incorrectly placed suspicion on a town slot. You weren't as subtle about suspecting me as I was expecting you to be. So I'm looking at others in the thread who might subtly take advantage of the heat on my slot.

two questions:
1. if i understood correctly, your sr on me was based on perceiving me as subtly trying to ride your wagon. does me not being as subtle aa you were expecting me to be change your viewpoint on me?
2. well, have you looked at the others? what did you see?

i specifically ask him about this and he never answers.

Same with this post:

One thing to remember is that two scum flying under the radar might pass day one in a normal game but it would lead to a loss here. One scum has to take an active, town-appearing role or the game is lost. So I'm looking for a scum here that is more on the proactive side.

he says he's looking for proactive scum, but i don't see him looking. like go, have a look at his ISO. where is he looking?

sure, he gives some reads later on which is fine, i didn't even bother to look at them, but he's not doing what he's saying he's doing.

also, when i ask him to provide thoughts on implo/drew on p7, and that he should be truthful, he gets defensive and says he has no reason to lie, which is hmm:

Spoiler:

ari, kittens, THS - what do you think of drew/implosion on page 7?

*snip*
i am trying to sort you, THS and kittens based on your answers. also if kittens or THS read this before answering, do me a favor and answer truthfully so i can sort you properly.

Answer what truthfully specifically

I'm admittedly having trouble getting out of the weeds here. But I have nothing to be untruthful about

[Hero at Heart]

also the way you exaggerate your certainty in him being town feels similar to how you treated his slot in the previous game we played together.

lol, i knew you'd say that

what if i told you i treated his slot that way because i genuinely had these thoughts? which are the exact same thoughts i'm having right now?

[Hero at Heart]

if your reasoning is something like because Ari was mafia and Datisi was town in that game we played together then like I have no words

i missed that

it's not because you were mafia and he was town, it's because you were mafia and he was town and you are acting more or less the same.

anyway i guess you can go on having no words lol

I don't think I am acting remotely the same

no you aren't, which is also why my read changed. on a surface level though i thought your "datisi carry me" was a huge red light with the letters "scum" engraved on it

and don't you tell me that you have no idea what i'm talking about

[Hero at Heart]

you know what? i am done. i am done with this meta discussion, i am done with discussing my tr of datisi, and i am done with this silly 1v1 with ari. it's not fun and it's not helping town win.

so here's what we're going to do instead. i am going to propose a coalition, and ari - please sheep it eliminate me if it fails. you have my solemn promise i won't push you (but i will be looking for scum). here's my coalition:
HEAL: ari, datisi, hero, implo, bella

i'd rather tell ari "i told you" in the postgame after we won than continue this stupid, unfun argument. or i guess if she's scum i can tell her "gg wp you tricked us all". but i don't think she's scum.

the above coalition is actually final*.

*barring extreme shenanigans like datisi claiming scum or some crazy, game changing scumslip.

[Hero at Heart]

Spoiler: for ari's eyes only

ari, if you sheep this i promise you the very enjoyable experience of watching scum squirm in an attempt to prevent an all town coalition.
so please consider this before you say no.
and in the worst case, where datisi is scum and we're both town, i guess the worst that can happen is that i am the D1 misflip and you are the D2 misflip and then we can cheer on datisi from the dead chat, still thinking he's town until the bitter end. or we might decide to cheer scum!him knowingly

[Hero at Heart]

dats/hero/implo/bella/ari

let's goooo

[Hero at Heart]

@hero, I'm not really, I'm talking about one we could agree on? I dunno, I still like dats' suggestion

My games I've replaced out and games with datisi are a weird correlation, just having gone ovw my meta. They've been scum on like a 3:1 ratio and I've had a correct read most of the time. My favourite thing just now was reading their scum ptnl from four years ago asking if I was timid BC of my personality or role pm

sorry i lost track, can you explain what you mean?

[Hero at Heart]

wrt to first line

the others ones i did understand

[Hero at Heart]

no kidding. Can someone share the game you three are talking about please?

i don't really care if ari links it, i rather she doesn't but whatever.

but personally i will not be talking about any other games than this specific game, aka coalition of frogs.

[Hero at Heart]

ok fine i'll townread you

HEAL: ari datisi hero implo bella

<3

[Hero at Heart]

good nightie!

[Hero at Heart]

how willing are you to replace ari with merlyn

the above coalition is actually final.

[Hero at Heart]

like am willing to hear your argument for it but right now i think you are scum so it would require some work to convince me

like can you at least not ignore the case i made on you?

[Hero at Heart]

like am willing to hear your argument for it but right now i think you are scum so it would require some serious arguments to convince me. but again i won't change my coalition unless one of the players in the coalition scumslips or something.

like can you at least not ignore the case i made on you?

EBWOP

[Hero at Heart]

you know what? i am done. i am done with this meta discussion, i am done with discussing my tr of datisi, and i am done with this silly 1v1 with ari. it's not fun and it's not helping town win.

so here's what we're going to do instead. i am going to propose a coalition, and ari - please sheep it eliminate me if it fails. you have my solemn promise i won't push you (but i will be looking for scum). here's my coalition:
HEAL: ari, datisi, hero, implo, bella

i'd rather tell ari "i told you" in the postgame after we won than continue this stupid, unfun argument. or i guess if she's scum i can tell her "gg wp you tricked us all". but i don't think she's scum.

the above coalition is actually final*.

*barring extreme shenanigans like datisi claiming scum or some crazy, game changing scumslip.

I would support you or ari, but not both. Sub out drew or myself for yourself or for ari and I will go along with this.

explain.

[Hero at Heart]

yuck. i think ari is scum.

HEAL: Bellaphant

there, there's my coalition.

THS, what about the conversation that just went on all day led you this way? Also, do you think Hero is town then or are they not correlated?

i'll be frank, i think this is a scumpost

this doesn't sound like a townie thought process right after merlyn's previous post

[Hero at Heart]

okay nvm my reading comprehebsion sucks, i thought she was insinuating ari was scum but she actually replied to a post calling ari scum

[Hero at Heart]

I do t think I'm sr you, although I am more hesitant than I was. The alt thing has bothered me a fair bit, which may not be fair but is true. Also, I felt like your slot was low key becoming controversial, and I'd rather people agreed on a coalition quickly, as I feel that we get more info if we are wrong after we have...more info.

I'm tired

lol fair

i also think we should agree on a coalition quickly. i think the coalition i suggested is the same one datisi suggested? so you are welcome to vote for it.

and idk, sure my slot is controversial but right now the main person pushing me has decided to tr me and anyways you should decide whether or not you tr me regardless of whether or not it's controversial. it's not actually possible that all players in the game will be in favor of a pure town coalition, because the mafia loses if they let that happen, so there's always going to be a controversy.

[Hero at Heart]

is that a strawberry frog? noice

[Hero at Heart]

lol i think this is more or less what bella meant, but i feel like right now most of the discussion is noise and not a lot of productive solving is happening, and i know i am not changing my coalition vote today, so i'd rather just end the game now. and if it doesn't end (which i really doubt) then at least we have info and can go into more meaningful discussion or whatever, or you can lim me and i will be able to pretend that town losing to scum!datisi isn't my fault (or if ari is scum she's the Day 2 lim after i flip green D1, and then i'm happy to trade a misyeet for a correct yeet and leave town in the capable hands of datisi (assuming he somehow survives two night phases lol))

but as i said what's much more likely is that we just win with this coalition which is why i don't see a point continuing the discussion instead of just locking in this coalition.

[Hero at Heart]

NGL
I don't even know why I play coalition games bc I'm always out of the coalition

but i dont want to vote for a coal with ari or dats in it.

id be ok with any of them, but those players

are you saying that because of previous games with them or because of rrads from this game? i didn't fully understand

[Hero at Heart]

i think it might be theater

especially cause earlier THS wanted me to put merlyn in the coalition instead of ari but didn't offer himself

[Hero at Heart]

merlyn i don't think you explained the "i would support you or ari but not both" thing yet, can you please explain that?

[Hero at Heart]

why are all of the people i want in the coalition suddenly not online for the last 36 hours? Have they all been abducted by aliens?

actually

@mod can you please prod ari, implo, dats, and bella?

[Hero at Heart]

hi THS, sorry for ignoring these posts.
i've been kind of checked out from the game even though it might not look like that since i did post but i didn't actually look at anything thoroughly or try to analyze anything.

here's the way i think this is going to go:

i think hero's thought process seems very genuine and authentic and i actually got good vibes when we had that argument pages ago. i felt like i was talking to a town, not a scum.

i think the coalition is going to be wrong, and then he's going to lead a lim on me which is also going to be wrong.

what happens beyond then is out of my control

1. if i understood correctly, your sr on me was based on perceiving me as subtly trying to ride your wagon. does me not being as subtle aa you were expecting me to be change your viewpoint on me?
2. well, have you looked at the others? what did you see?

I already SAID you not being as subtle changed my viewpoint on you in 139 and I've BEEN looking at others in 188, 206, 235, 244, 245,

I do agree that numbers wise it just makes sense to put yourself forward for the coalition bc if you know you're town then you can only be wrong about 4 spots rather than 5. The only person who can really relax and not need to advocate for themselves here is a wolf who is pushing a partner in there. There's no point in being worried that it will make you a target later if the coalition fails, you're getting heat now anyway.

i have two completed games of coalition;

viewtopic.php?t=91245
viewtopic.php?t=89428

I am town in both

I suggested not being in coalition in both

I ended up in the coalition in both

I personally do not enjoy being in the coalition unless I'm absolutely certain my coalition is winning.

I am nowhere near that level of certainty at present and might never be.

Saying that I am mafia for not wanting to be in the coalition because all townies would want to be in the coalition and ascribing the only possible reason for someone not wanting to be in the coalition as "they are mafia who are pushing their partner in instead" is reductionist and absurd.

I can believe this.

so if you believe ari's self towncase (at least i think that's what you are implying), and think that your townread on me is good, why do you think exactly that the coalition i suggested will fail? like who out of the 5 people do you suspect? bella? implo? datisi? please elaborate

[Hero at Heart]

independently - i only saw datisi suggesting it after i picked it.

[Hero at Heart]

The way hero is playing the game right now is very town and also annoying. I kind of hate the attitude of "well if this is wrong then woe is me, i'll just exit stage left". No, if this coalition goes through and is wrong then you don't get to magically shirk responsibility if you're town, you have to play the rest of the game.

sorry for being annoying

i may have conveyed the wrong message. i do intend to hunt scum if this coalition fails. i don't really intend to shirk reponsibility, i just presented it in a "fluffy" way because i honestly feel like presenting my thoughts in an analytical way is right now draining for me mentally and would also make me look scummy for some reason (i've been called scum for being over-analytical several times in the past*). but whatever, i'll explain my thought process analytically.

basically, i think this coalition only fails if ari is scum, and ari has set it up in such a way that i'm basically a guaranteed misyeet if the coalition fails (and in fact if the coalition somehow fails and she's also town, then it's likely she's misyeeted day 2 and then i go into elo looking very scummy, which is bad because i am town). i think from a pov of how can i guarantee least amount of misyeets and highest amount of scum eliminated, then without breaking my promise to ari of not pushing her if this fails, the only logical thing to do would be to yeet myself day 1 and then ari day 2. i think this guarantees scum dies in 90% of the cases where the coalition fails.

*note:

Spoiler:

i actually tend to overthink my posts as town. i know usually overthinking what you post is considered scummy, but i often write up a post, read it over and think "well actually this doesn't sound consistent / makes me look scummy", as TOWN, and then go and re-write that post.

---

also, i agree with you that merlyn's perspective of either me or ari doesn't make sense because that's not how coalition works. i think merlyn is scummy for that.



also,

I don't feel particularly confident in this coalition.

I guess I feel also annoyed at the This Coalition Is Unilaterally Final thing.

that's actually understandable. and like i'm willing to re-evaluate, but right now i have evaluated the game state and i think you/bella have each 95% confidence of being town, same with datisi i guess, and i know i'm town. so it doesn't really make sense to me to sub out any of these 4. then with ari i think we could maybe find a better coalition but the thing with ari is if the coalition fails i at least know it's her, and if the coalition fails with drew+other 4 for instance, i would have 0 clue who is scum out of the coalition members. and i also don't tr any of the other 4 (drew/merlyn/ths/kittens) very much, but maybe it's just me.

[Hero at Heart]

(i'll talk about the scum case on him in a bit but it seems like hero is particularly intransigent on him

lol i guess i am

you know what, can i ask a question?

if THS is town then who are potential scum candidates for you?

[Hero at Heart]

i guess i can understand what ari had been talking about with regard to fake confidence

i'm just posting very arrogantly, and dominating the thread

i'll try to temper that

[Hero at Heart]

okay i think it might be best if i do like ari and don't post here unless someone @me, at least for the next 48 hours more or less.

[Hero at Heart]

The only real reason to lock in soon in my mind is people's interest in the game petering out. Which I guess it seems like hero's essentially is

yeah sorriez

[Hero at Heart]

ok one last post before i go do my chores:
ari could you please explain your read on datisi in detail?

and implo could you explain your read on datisi as well? i can totally understand the paranoia, but do you have a reason to scumread him or do you just think the reasons i have to tr him could all be faked?

[Hero at Heart]

wdym abt last paragraph?

[Hero at Heart]

get well soon!

[Hero at Heart]

Also, I know who you are Hero lol....you are playing a bit different though.

that's what the alt is for, sí? to play different. es intencional.

Spoiler:

also, did 437 give it away, or something else

(such as a little duck told you)

?

[Hero at Heart]

I didn't think there was anything to explain- I don't tr either of you so I'd rather not take two chances over one

that makes no sense

why would you support someone you don't tr?

[Hero at Heart]

This is such a weird convo for two folx who claim to tr me to have

i sort off dropped the tr on you several pages ago

[Hero at Heart]

Also, I know who you are Hero lol....you are playing a bit different though.

that's what the alt is for, sí? to play different. es intencional.

Spoiler:

also, did 437 give it away, or something else

(such as a little duck told you)

?

Oh shoot, I actually had it incorrect haha.....but now I got you

noooooooo

[Hero at Heart]

can't believe i've been betrayed like this

[Hero at Heart]

okay hopefully with datisi's replacement it's either easier for implo and ari to see town!datisi, or the rep-in changes my mind about the slot and we go for another coalition.

There was a certain degree of playing the game in a competent, relaxed manner that I was inclined to townread from him, and I feel like that's what you've been describing in this game.

I don't feel as strongly as he does that Datisi is town.

i do understand what you mean, because i went and skimmed datisi's iso in Election, and yeah he can fake a pretty convincing relaxed, competent town attitude. but that's now what i'm tring him for, i'm tring him for sounding like an uninformed, confused and uncertain townie. and like, if i played in Election i would probably moderately tr him there, sure. but this is not the same vibe at all.

but anyway let's see with the rep.

[Hero at Heart]

ah, std. this will be a breeze then

std how far have you read?

[Hero at Heart]

also i really wanna know more about your ari read if you don't mind

like i think she's town but i have doubts so it would be good to hear your perspective too

[Hero at Heart]

i agree with ari

[Hero at Heart]

std can you obvtown so implo is sold on coalitioning you and we can get stuff done?

[Hero at Heart]

ok can i say something and you promise not to laugh at me?

Spoiler: pls don't laugh at me am not stupid, i am just sleep deprived

so i looked at std's coalition vote and was wondering how come he is not including datisi in the coalition or at least commenting on him, and then i realized it's the same slot
also std reversed is dts which is like dats which is ari's nickname for datisi. isn't that cool?

yeah i think i should go to sleep now. my sebse of humor is beyond broken.

[Hero at Heart]

also i may be confided but this std sounds town.

[Hero at Heart]

also i may be

confbiased

but this std sounds town.

ebwop

[Hero at Heart]

ok i am lowkey worried that THS suggesting a coalition identical to mine/ari's/datisi's but without sheeping us means he's town

which basically means my reads are terribad and there might be 1-2 scum in the coalition.

am i being overly paranoid, or just the right amount of paranoid? @implo, ari, THS

[Hero at Heart]

wow std much effort and smart. i don't dislike.

i tr bellaphant for a simple reason - she never gave me any reason to sr her, and she sounds like she's speaking her actual thoughts.

[Hero at Heart]

I guess it's not unreasonable to be paranoid that because noone is trying to fight their way in that the coalition you put forward is tainted - but like it's not really even a consensus because nobody is even playing this game rn

good point

datisi never really made a coalition before he quit playing

i was referring to this:

i think at this moment in time (like page 14) my ideal coalition would probably be dats/hero/implo/bella/ari but i am like. doubtful that's ever going to get voted in. and in the event it fails, it feels like it would be an utter shitshow.

[Hero at Heart]

thanks mod

also guys

i'm all for democracy and figuring things out together, but this game has been dead since Friday and there's a player who has literally made 2 posts in the last 5 days, and i really want to just lock in the coalition and even if it fails at least the game will hopefully move, but tbh despite my paranoia i still don't think we are going to wind up with a better coalition than this one and if ari/implo/std/bella are scum, then well, well played to them what can i say.

so just for emphasis
HEAL: ari/bella/dragons/hero/implo
pls sheep me so we can get somewhere before deadline.

[Hero at Heart]

it's very weird for you to say a thing that i literally already said like three times and then @ me to se if i agree.

or rather i think it's possible that this coalition is all town but if it's all then then i think THS is also town

i wasn't asking if you agree THS is town, i was asking if you think i'm being paranoid.

[Hero at Heart]

i can probbably iso THS in a bit and maybe it's a good idea.

could you tell me in concrete terms how much better would you prefer THS over std/bella, which one of them, and why?

[Hero at Heart]

i think you are correcto

@implo, if std goes for same coalition will you hammer?

[Hero at Heart]

(do we even know each other? I'd care less If we didn't really have a 'history')

no comment

also if it helps, i think only ari and datisi figured me out. and datisi only did after ari spelled it out for him.

I hadn't quite realise show the day phase worked, I am one again shit at mech..shall I just hammer?

paranoia mode: activated.

all of a sudden the fact that bella is asking whether to hammer instead of just hammering makes me think she could be scum trying to look like she don't want to hammer when she do. or maybe it's just me overthinking things.

eh, whatever. i am just being paranoid. bella, i'm fine with a hammer.

no am not

[Hero at Heart]

Duck it

HEAL: ari/bella/dragons/hero/implo

i kind of think we should sub mala in for someone in the coalition because she can't be mafia if she's voting for a clean coalition right

i get where you are coming from, but i think mk could say "duck it" on a pure coalition as scum exactly so it could get her townread, or just because she didn't care enough.

if anything THS should be subbed in but i don't really know who to sub and i have a bad feeling about subbing people.

[Hero at Heart]

wow

i think i owe ari an apology

um. sorry.

[Hero at Heart]

ok being wrong on the coalition and having the possibility of either ari or std being scum really sucked my wim, so i am probably going to check out from the game until friday (when i estimate i will get a wim boost)

[Hero at Heart]

for some reason i thought it was wednesday when i wrote that

[Hero at Heart]

hi, i am back.

the fact that this is friday does do wonders for my wim.

I guess I feel like I can get a better read on STD given more time so I'm not really in a rush to vote him yet.

I feel good things about your slot which historically means I'm being snowed by you since I''m not scumreading you

I feel like I can't really touch hero atp since everyone thinks he's town and maybe it's just me being the idiot who can't see it.

I dunno I feel worse about bella than before.

I'm not sold on Hero being town

i'm sold on you not being town though.

[Hero at Heart]

alas.

i do not like std's approve post. I guess it can come from town but it makes lots of sense from scum who's afraid that the winds could change with the fact that his reads like, conveniently happen to match up with the coalition that was already proposed and that his predecessor also liked. Like, just the sheer odds of those reads matching up is kind of low whereas scum can pick reads that are convenient and if he's in a failing coalition that has popular support and someone is talking about ousting him from the coalition then of course those are convenient reads for him to have.

I sort of want to throw up my hands and say it's just std/mala because that explains them jointly hammering the coalition when I was asking to sub in THS for probably STD. I like bella's previous page. I'm kind of irked at the coalition being hammered this way but i also probably could have been louder but i guess hindsight is 20/20. I think Drew saying he wants to start over is pretty townish in context.

VOTE: Save The Dragons

tbh i guess i just really didn't want datisi to be scum this game, same way ge didn't want ari to be scum when she was

i can totally see your read on std, and i also just don't see either you or bella being scum ever.

and i also promised ari not to push her if this fails and i care about ari's opinion of me too much to betray her like this.

ugh fine i guess std can be the lim. but if it fails i will be very sad because i had such a fucking soul read on the slot.

[Hero at Heart]

okay would you think i'm crazy if i suggested voting merlyn instead of one of the coalition members? probably yes. i mean i think i'm crazy right now because if i were sane then how come my coalition failed.

[Hero at Heart]

VOTE: std

ari if you scum i will cry

[Hero at Heart]

UNVOTE:

[Hero at Heart]

btw @ari @ausuka don't you agree this unvote sounds suspiciously aimilar to a certain unvote i've done in another game? jkjk

[Hero at Heart]

implo can you please tell me why everyone except std and kittens are town?

[Hero at Heart]

VOTE: Mala

Days of no activity, then a sudden burst of activity leading to the hammer? I think your buddy was urging you to get in there behind the scenes

we should vote out someone in the coalition first - voting outside of coalition is p bad

Can we stash a Merlyn vote for later?

ok i think i'm really hapoy with reading drew as town for now.

[Hero at Heart]

If it is Ari, I would say with Mala or Merlyn.

I think we probably have a deep wolf though.

I can't help to remember how Implo and I clashed, then they backed off.....after referencing a previous game where they came after me when I was town (and they were town as well, I believe?).

Like I can't shake the feeling that they mentioned it on purpose to be like 'Hey Drew, I do this as town sometimes.....and look at me doing again here! I must be town, right?'

When all else fails I need to go to my special Drew place in my head.

what did you find in your Special Drew Place (except aliyana memes)?

[Hero at Heart]

I don't think it's likely at all tbh

i also don't think it's likely. high five.

[Hero at Heart]

shocker

what the hell

Ari,talk to me about hero?

Would really love if people would play the game of mafia that we signed up for.

Bella's is at least technically content (and I guess she said she'd be low-content, idr if that's still going on) but like, ugh. This is 1/3 of the player list posting without giving any opinion on anything after

the coalition failed

. Like, the coalition is either the anticlimax where town wins or the climax of the setup where we're supposed to learn we were wrong about everything. And Mala and STD voted for the coalition and now have nothing to say now that it failed. Like it probably isn't just as easy as STD/Mala but if either of them is town then they had better give some reason to believe that

i very much agree with you.

sorry for not being here earlier, i had to gather up the mental energy to face the fact that i've actually townlocked a scum and that my reads sucked. but now i'm here.

[Hero at Heart]

implo can you please tell me why everyone except std and kittens are town?

like give me a 1-2 sentence towncase on each oerson except them.

[Hero at Heart]

person*

[Hero at Heart]

Ugh I like hero's posting on this page and I can't work out if I'm being snowed.

what does "snowed" mean?

Not caught up thoughts:

Ari/hero scum.team feels very unlikely? Scum theatre is rarely scum theatre in my experience. Is there one scum in them, maybe.
Drew and implo still town.
Could be persuaded on std, low confidence reading them
Have low key read sr mer since like page 5.

same exact thoughts except that drew is not "still" town but was only recently upgraded to town.

[Hero at Heart]

This is a weird post.

why?

[Hero at Heart]

Why post this? Either scumread me, build a case, and vote me, or not. This is just useless shade.

VOTE: merlyn

hope you are happy now

[Hero at Heart]

Does it ususally work out for you finding town by choosing people who agree with your reads?

um, i'd say that it works better than random.
like it's not a perfect method, but then i don't know of any perfect method of finding town.

also i'd been previously thinking that you and drew were svt and this post by him strengthened this feeling and made him look townier in comparison to you.

[Hero at Heart]

i don't love std's claim that he didn't know it was a hammer vote though.

[Hero at Heart]

implo - implo feels like he's trying to sandbag me now this is going to sound OMGUSy but it feels wrong. On surface level a lot of posts seem townie but i could see scum making posts like 156 trying to sew discord where there's not much going on yet.

otoh i agree that 156 wasn't a good post at all
maybe i should re-read implo.

[Hero at Heart]

UNVOTE:

AGAIN.

[Hero at Heart]

that i don't really care about your read on me

[Hero at Heart]

It does? Genuine question. What would, observing that you do that, stop scum from imitating it and pretending to agree with you? It's fine if this a post game question, I'm not really sure it helps me sort you.

two things:
the first thing is, i normally don't care only about what people

state

their reads to be, but also the reasoning behind it. so if someone copies all/most of my reads it looks obvious and i scumread that.
the second thing is, here it didn't feel like drew was catering to me because i had not recently expressed a desire to vote you when drew said that. if he had said that

after

i said i want to vote you, i might've even scumread him for it, but he said it before i said that, so it's clearly not imitation.

[Hero at Heart]

okay i read implo again and i think he's town tbh

honestly i think by associatives the solve is std + kittens/THS. i'm still leaning THS but could be kittens.

VOTE: std

i promise i won't unvote within 5 posts.

[Hero at Heart]

and like i just don't get std making a super obvious hammer post and then saying he didn't realize it was a hammer

i can't rationalize it.

it makes zero sense.

i would actually tr std if he said the hammer was intentional and that he was 100% sure it would win the game, but this retraction is

really

weird.

[Hero at Heart]

i just had this horrifying thought that i might not be night killed and i might be taken to a 3p yeetlo with ari and THS and then i'll have zero clue what to do and it will suck a lot.

scum can you please nightkill me. you know i'm very townie and never getting yeeted before 3p yeetlo, so it's a good kill.

[Hero at Heart]

go for it

[Hero at Heart]

I agree with this post. No I'm not trying to pocket you, I think that would be pretty silly of me at this point. I went back and looked at the hammer and it does read like someone hammering on purpose.

yeah i didn't think you were trying to pocket me lol

[Hero at Heart]

Going with my gut.

i hate to be the guy who asks for an explanation of gut, but...

explain?

[Hero at Heart]

hi rh9!

[Hero at Heart]

if you want a recommendation, i personally think that pages 2-4, pages 9-11, page 15, and everything from page 19 onward should give you a basic understanding of the situation without having to read the entire game

[Hero at Heart]

of course you can just go and read the entire game, i won't stop you

[Hero at Heart]

like if scum in the coalition just happens to be super townread by everyone just take the L and move on with your life

I don't really have a lot of energy for this game I don't feel like I'm getting any closer to solving by talking to people so it's fine to put my faith in others and just hope they're right

same, i actually still don't have a huge scumread on std but it's like, i don't really know who else to vote and i guess ari's and implo read on him (from even before the coalition was locked in) makes sense.

[Hero at Heart]

i also liked both of the posts by implo that rh9 quotes just above this.

[Hero at Heart]

i think rh9

could

be std's partner in a scum!std world, but am not sure

[Hero at Heart]

it would be crazy if ari's early take that mala is either scum with datisi or not scum turned out to be true.

[Hero at Heart]

you know what, i just convinced myself that std is scum

ari i give you an exclusive right to tell me "i told you" in the post game. i will also never doubt you again.

THS could you please vote him?

[Hero at Heart]

am i somehow unreadable today

yes

[Hero at Heart]

wait what

am really confused now

ari, why?

[Hero at Heart]

rh9:

do you agree that std has lied about the hammer?

do you know how in a recently completed game (i forgot which), you lied as town and then you basically admitted that you lied? well std has not admitted that he's lying. what do you make of that?

[Hero at Heart]

I'm re reading from 25, snowed means fooled, hero: I sometimes feel I /want/ you to be town more than you are, but I find myself agreeing with you too much!

slightly off topic but:
well you /wanting/ me to be town is probably because i'm a really friendly person naturally. would you believe me if i told you that the first time i won as scum, i've genuinely tried to befriend the town players i was pocketing, and was slightly surprised when the town wasn't happy in endgame about my victory? because this is a true story, sadly .

however, i don't think that has anything to do with why you agree with me - you probably agree with me because we have a similar mindset, considering we're both probably town.

[Hero at Heart]

btw ari, i'm still waiting to hear why you don't feel good about flipping std, but i just want to say that i have a feeling that if std was town then scum would've hammered him already. but maybe i just have zero game state awareness so you're free to disagree with that.

[Hero at Heart]

Page 26 incoming

Ok, merlyn is probably town, which helps narrow stuff down a bit.

wait bella are you tr'ing merlyn for telling the mod she'll stop her from pagetopping or did i misread your post? since that's her only post on page 26

[Hero at Heart]

ok since i'm here all by myself i might as well just say my thoughts

i kinda feel weirded out that nobody is pushing me right now, everyone except bella (which i think is leaning std) and THS (which idk why he's still voting me but hasn't actually pushed me) is voting either implo or std. now i do think std is scum so it makes sense for him to be voted, but i just don't get the votes on implo???? like if i were drew or std i think i would be voting either hero or ari, you know? our previous 1v1 /should/ make both of us look kinda suspect.

the thing is, i see voting hero/ari as both the scum play (easy misfade) and the town play (we objectively look worse after the events leading up to the coalition and then the coalition that failed). so like not voting us doesn't make sense for me for either alignment (from std's viewpoint, mind you - i obviously wouldn't vote myself, nor do i wanna vote ari). can someone who is objective (i.e not me or ari, and also isn't std) explain to me why i'm wrong about this?

[Hero at Heart]

I guess my question would be (in the nicest way possible, bc I do like you as a player), does this matter to the game?

it depends. if someone can show me a scum!std motivation for voting implo over me, it would make std more likely scum. if there's a town!std motivation voting implo over me, then std might be town.
but in general, i think it helps to try and figure out what you /don't/ understand about the game. if you understand everything, then the game is basically solved, right? so if it's not solved then there must be something you don't understand. so the fact that there's something you don't understand could point to the fact that you are not on the right track (or you could be on the right track, but you'd only understand it after figuring the thing out).

for example, in a recently completed game, there was a leading wagon which had very good reasons to be scum. however, i didn't understand why they kept tunneling an obvtown player - this just didn't make sense to me as a scum action. and when i thought of this i concluded that the must be just very frustrated town (which they were). not that it mattered in the end because they got hammered anyway :p

also, i'll take that as a compliment

My answer to this fwiw is that I think that either of you are the easy targets you're thinking of.

i'm not sure what you mean? are you saying implo is as easy a misfade target as myself?

[Hero at Heart]

I just like implo, I don't want to vote there. I get why Drew's voting there but that doesn't mean I think he's right about it. I scumread the other two slots to varying degrees so that makes me uneasy about this wagon. I'm actually pretty happy with my current vote

I dunno, I really like this

ok i get why

[Hero at Heart]

std why is implo scum?

[Hero at Heart]

and aside from that?

[Hero at Heart]

welp

i can see where you are coming from maybe, but why not ari then?

[Hero at Heart]

I butchered what I was trying to say there. I meant that I don't think either of you are the easy targets. You were really confident and a driver of that coalition, you'd have to be really bold scum to do that. Ive pondered whether you are in fact, but I'm pretty much accepting at this point that you're town. I think it would be hard to get a wagon on you. And Ari said she's been pushed into coalitions and then mislimed before, I think that makes her a less obvious push than you're thinking.

ohhh okay

i guess that makes sense

[Hero at Heart]

i like steady's thought process here
i know RH9/std is kinda obvious but sometimes it's the obvious answer, right? idk.
do you feel RH9 is partnered with bella?

Implosion wasn't quite a driver, but then again he didn't really need to be.

and why are you giving this a pass? isn't this the same thing bella did?

[Hero at Heart]

@ari i read datisi's iso today or yesterday (don't actually remember) and i kinda convinced myself that all the posts he made that could be towny are actually just scum pretending to be town. do you not see it?

and i get the twiddling but both of the people who aren't voting are actually interested in an std lim. which i'm not actually sure makes him scum, idk.

[Hero at Heart]

hi, just a heads up: i won't be very available today, but since i do know the deadline is nearing, i will try to engage a bit sometime later today.

since i do have a few minutes right now, let me just answer ari's question regarding me flipping my read on std:

well, idk. maybe i'm wrong. but basically you know what implo said about my tr of datisi making sense if i've never played with scumtisi? well after the coalition failed i thought about that, and because i was sr'ing std for lying about the hammer (at least i think it's a lie, it might be wrong), i read datisi's iso. and i kinda realized that it's the kind of iso that if you read thinking datisi is town, it would look very towny, but if you read it thinking he's potentially scum, everything is actually fakeable.

idk if any of this makes sense so please don't hate on me if it doesn't but that's how i got to that read anyway.

[Hero at Heart]

because it feels like there's too many people twiddling their thumbs on the sidelines and their votes are on irrelevant people[THS,Bella] and that's sometimes a sign that scum are fine with the current choices/dichotomy in the game and kind of just hoping someone gets offed.

This logic only really applies if one of THS/Bella is scum, right?

i don't really understand how you went from datisi is 99% town to oh he's the bad guy now

I feel like this is sort of weird but the trajectory still makes sense to me as coming from town, like they were convinced on Datisi and then there was sentiment that changed their mind over time? I do want to hear their response to this though

yeah basically

[Hero at Heart]

hero you know its ok to just say you dont know if you dont know right

apparently i don't know what

[Hero at Heart]

idk why but THS's vote gives me a foreboding

UNVOTE:

this is a temporary unvote - i want to sit and analyze everything before i re-vote