Veiled Committee Mafia: List Mods Edition [game over]

[Bingle]

Serious question:
Do you think it's possible the all/most of scum are just the lurkers?

are you feeling super stuck this game

This might be paranoid of me, but this looks like AMWAY phrasing.

[Bingle]

Do you think it's possible the all/most of scum are just the lurkers?

If both Aureal, theta and Cook are town I'd say it's pretty much required. Most of the people who are being active and solvey are pretty transparently town at this point.

[Bingle]

We DON'T go offering people Amway randomly like Bingle is doing right now. Instead, we choose the two towniest/solviest players and give one of them Amway, who then gives the other Amway. These two players will be the new heads of Amway.
Then, we flip Aureal and Bingle and Koba are very happy because we finally publicly eveal her role info.
Then, ALL PLAYERS WHO HAVE Amway, EXCEPT the 2 chosen ones, RESIGN their Amway powers during the night. This can be verified and I'll explain later how, but if they don't comply they will be policy limmed.
Then, even if mafia night kills one of the chosen townleaders, at least one of them will remain. This town leader can then recruit the player who they consider towniest, who will recruit the player they consider towniest etc. until all players are recruited. If someone isn't recruited then they didn't comply with instructions and get policy limmed.
Then, the top 5 towniest/solviest players become vigs and can coordinate shots and just shred the PoE list that will be put together.

This isn't far off from what I've been suggesting the whole time, except that 9 rbs is better than 5 vigs and 4 rbs if you're doing coordinated night actions. We also need confirmation that once someone resigns they can be rerecruited.

[Bingle]

It's not, but unless we're waiting to contemplate DE's plan first, KKFC using neighborhood on DE was the intent. We can talk about things more first though. I'll respond more in depth on it after work.

It'd be really cool and good for accountability if you'd, you know, list the recruitment phrases.

[Bingle]

And listing all phrases would be quoting my PM so no go there

/rant

It's really annoying to me that that rule exists when there's a much simpler way to make the thing it's addressing completely irrelevant. Seriously, just encourage a mod meta where PM formatting is alignment neutral and public and we don't have to worry about "Don't quote your PM" nonsense. It's a site rule that exists because people do a shit job at game design, when we could really just emphasize good game design instead.

Sorry, me. I'm a little loopy from fever and mostly posting because I don't have anything else to do while home sick from work.

[Bingle]

If leaving AMWAY makes you AMWAY immune there's no point in AMWAY besides turning Theta into a desperate neighborizor and all of my points against aureal get much stronger, because there isn't even really a benefit to the power for town.

[Bingle]

VOTE: random nurse

if we lose bc of the MLM role mass killing everyone imma p pissed btw

We're still limming Aureal, Koba.

[Bingle]

Except Aureal is scum that is actually dangerous long term and has a wagon.

[Bingle]

Idk, I think Aureal raises a good point that if you don't know the precise recruitment phase, you should copy the phrase used by someone else who does know the correct phase. How else will we be able to vet whether the power works as described ir not?

Uh huh. And the scum motivation here is…? Like, as soon as Aureal gave me the information I didn’t have I immediately redid the invitation with the correct phrasing. Dragon can confirm we don’t have a neighborhood, so I clearly didn’t have the information. What is my master plan as scum here? To fake a recruitment to not confirm the role it’s now confirmed I have? FFS, I even offered you the chance to prove to yourself that I’m not in amway.

Here, let’s try that again:

Have you heard about this new opportunity to make extra income?

Now this time, actually respond and confirm there is no neighborhood forming instead of just assuming that I’m scum because you’re shit at reading me.

[Bingle]

Do you think it's possible the all/most of scum are just the lurkers?

If both Aureal, theta and Cook are town I'd say it's pretty much required. Most of the people who are being active and solvey are pretty transparently town at this point.

How are you protecting yourself from confirmation bias here? "Well, they are active and look like they are solving," isn't the same as being town who

is

solving.

I haven’t said that anyone is town for being active and solvey. I’ve said that all of the active players, other than aureal and cook ARE towny. It’s also not much of a stretch when you realize there’s only like a quarter of the game that’s active that scum is going to be lurkers.

[Bingle]

ok nvm aural is just a willager

What?

[Bingle]

well

"
DkKoba- has not dropped off in content, and i don't want to lim this while there's good potential for scum to hunt"

*People I want Axed* : Koba - if Ranger is somehow legit and Alpine is true


also the 2nd im not sure how you reach that conclusion, are you saying i am white knighting both slots?

Obviously the DK is where all the townpoints are.

[Bingle]

Why do you think Aureal is just badtown now, DK? Cause I still see a complete lack of anything that would make that slot town.

[Bingle]

like i recognize i am a valuable asset to town but like also my flip is the strongest investigative in the game bar DE's cop

Uh, 3rd strongest, and stronger than DE's cop, assuming all claims are true.

[Bingle]

like i recognize i am a valuable asset to town but like also my flip is the strongest investigative in the game bar DE's cop

Uh, 3rd strongest, and stronger than DE's cop, assuming all claims are true.

there are 4 investigatives ?

PC is about approximately delayed cop, AniX is functionally a full tracker if we take the time to play right, you, DE, Theta. I might be missing some, I’m not at the computer with my role spreadsheet.

[Bingle]

Order of power is theta, PC, you, AniX, DE. There’s approximately 0 chance of DE dying tonight even if we hit scum.

[Bingle]

like i recognize i am a valuable asset to town but like also my flip is the strongest investigative in the game bar DE's cop

Uh, 3rd strongest, and stronger than DE's cop, assuming all claims are true.

there are 4 investigatives ?

PC is about approximately delayed cop, AniX is functionally a full tracker if we take the time to play right, you, DE, Theta. I might be missing some, I’m not at the computer with my role spreadsheet.

The fact you said full tracker here and then rank my power level so high makes me believe you actually overstated (or perhaps I potentially misstated) the depth of my ability. I get to track ONE person one time. The voting stuff just lets me expand the pool from which I can select that one person. It is similar with my other abilities (Not voting lets me block ONE person, but unrestricted since no vote, Tunnelling someone lets me kill ONE person and it is the person I tunnelled.

Full tracker here means tracker with no gating. There is no mechanical reason why we shouldn’t just let you vote every player for 24 hours, which is why your role is an example of shit game design.

[Bingle]

Order of power is theta, PC, you, AniX, DE. There’s approximately 0 chance of DE dying tonight even if we hit scum.

Okay so did I miss something?
You say Theta is investigative, and I assume you mean by virtue of failed recruitment of town, yet I don't see her do that which I thought was because she couldn't actually use it that way?
Like can Theta investigate or no? And if she can then why is this not happening?

Theta retracted the day action working with her modifier part and replaced it with night action only working with her modifier, which makes her the equivalent of a disloyal neighborizor. She can investigate anyone except me, ranger and kkfc using amway at night assuming she has enough down line distributors to do so and any formation of a neighborhood would be a hard guilty. The retraction of the day cop claim after getting amway and the complete lack of people pushing back for that IS something I’m paying attention to.

This is pretty much the reason why Aureal needs to die today instead of tomorrow, because we absolutely want theta to be on line tonight and the way to do that is to have her chain three recruits, preferably through ranger because ranger already can’t be copped by her. Aureal-scum will necessarily have at least the force recruiting roleblock available for tonight, so the risk of her role being incredibly powerful scum utility is very high. Also, any attempt to neighborize Theta is a scumclaim.

[Bingle]

oH god I did not think the role list was that intense

It's also not completely accurate. There is additional nuance to multiple roles. For example, Cook is a random neg utility she doesn't know about, DK flips as a currently alive member of the scumteam, not just a member of the scumteam, and Aureal's role required like 8 pages to get all of the details on.

[Bingle]

It's not guaranteed, Bingle disagrees with some of the groupings, yet the 'implosion' grouping of four is guaranteed, and per game mechanics, that group of four {Ranger, Cook, camelCasedSnivy, KatyKimFanClub} is guaranteed to have one scum.

Not quite accurate. I disagree that all of the submitters would necessarily have cohesion between their own roles, because personally I would have submitted four roles that shared very little in common. If I wanted to make 4 roles that worked together, I'd make my own setup. I think if you are correct that all of the listmods picked cohesive lists your list is about as good as we are going to get, but I remain unconvinced that the philosophy leading to that conclusion is accurate.

With that said, your argument for specifically implo making that specific group does seem to hold water.

[Bingle]

Oh shit I just remembered I was suppose to submit a clue to Codenames. Uhhh I'll do that and then go to sleep.

Ford 7. GGWP.

[Bingle]

like "this role counters mine!!!" is the most non reasoning of all time? jingle back me up please

Nah, it's a fine balance argument. Balance arguments working here is questionable, but I definitely think Ranger believes it and Cook is scummy. I want to lim Aureal because Aureal, if scum (which I maintain explains all of the incredibly proscum behavior better than just "She's Omgusing people as her only non survivalist content and that's a fine progression")is a much bigger threat to town than Cook.

If I can't get Aureal, I will 100% be down with the Cook elimination. But first, I want to delay the game by another 3 weeks to make SkyG hate everyone and everything.

[Bingle]

Iso camelCasedSnivy and KatyKimFanClub to confirm they're town.

Isoing CCS and KKFC hasn't even convinced me they're in the playerlist, tbqh.

[Bingle]

Seriously, I left you guys time to make the point that nobody else was going to call Bingle out when he's obviously wrong about basic facts. He wants me gone today because he thinks the current 2 recruits (KKFC &Theta)+3 recruits for Theta so she can neighborize equals the SIX needed for me to roleblock.

I'd almost think this was a setup to actually put me at six and therefore support Bingle's desire to get rid of me right now. Except that would require people having paid any attention to the fact that Bingle was wrong in the first place.

Except that I'm unsure whether I count towards that number. I don't get powers, or information. I did agree to join Amway. Theta needs 3. 3 + Theta + KKFC + potentially me is 6.

[Bingle]

Who recruited Bingle to amway? o.o

Theta. We used that and DE to prove that I’m trueclaiming about not being able to get powers.

[Bingle]

but amway still runs while youre dead right

It does. Aureal was explicit that limming her with two towny amway players alive would keep amway alive.

[Bingle]

Don’t hammer before we make theta a cop ffs.

[Bingle]

Someone invite please.

[Bingle]

Wait, I would have been able to confirm that I didn't roleblock anyway by just using a regular neighborhood on a non Amway person, who could confirm they were targeted but not recruited.

Ugh, Bingle is really getting to me. ._.

The recruit neighborizes?

That’s actually huge. Loud roleblocker is way stronger than regular roleblocker for town and way weaker for scum. We should actively avoid massive neighborhood chains in that case. It also makes me less worried about leaving aureal alive at night. Can an independent amway confirm this?

[Bingle]

scum that are recruited can then leave to become immune to the amway abilities

There’s the public loss of vote that prevents that to some degree. I’d prefer exactly 3 theta recruits atp, so we can test whether I show as having been recruited for the roleblock. Theta can neighborize anyone who doesn’t have a neighborhood with theta, so exactly one more recruitment neighborhood with theta should form and no more to maximize the size of the invest pool.

Lunch ended, back later.

[Bingle]

So right now, is the MLM like this? can someone confirm?

Code: Select all

              Aureal
             /       \
           /           \
KatyKimFanClub      Theta Alpine
   |                        /  
   |                      /
Ircher (?)               Bingle (hooded but not recruited?)
                        /
                       /
                  DragonEater70 (hooded but not recruited?)

I did not hood DragonEater. I accepted the recruitment from Theta (she can confirm) and publicly attempted to hood DE. DE responded and can confirm I don't have the power to neighborize anybody, so my role is confirmed.

[Bingle]

I accepted the recruit in the hood and sent the pm at about 6 EST, which is before the vc before this.

So I’ve accepted the recruit in the neighborhood and gotten nothing from xyzzy despite pming about it, so we gonna just do this:

In abt 2 hours I get home then I will explain my Amway plan that everybody would be happy with.

Would you like to join the amway?

Then a significant amount of time passed and I was told I had to use a specific phrase and tried again.

[Bingle]

Did this happen?

Dunno. I don't remember Ircher responding to my recruit post, but I'm not worried about someone not confirming a thing that's already been confirmed.

[Bingle]

I've been absolutely wiped out by work the last couple of evenings, I'm sorry everyone, if I'd known the last few days would go like this I wouldn't have joined a 116 page Mafia game

Mood. I was home sick Monday, still hit 50 hours today, and I’m working this weekend.

[Bingle]

That’s be a guilty on kkfc, actually.

[Bingle]

Yes, the hood was established. I haven't done anything with the invite yet.

If you get recruited by skyg instead of by kkfc it helps turn on thetas neighborize. If the role is town, a single recruit chain maximizes power distribution which is town. The only reason to accept a full recruit from kkfc is to cut out skyg and theta in the off chance that both of them are scum and aureal isn’t.

[Bingle]

The argument that you four is decent, and I think likely true. It is not confirmed true. I could see a world where overlap in pm format happened, I’m not read up enough on em roles to be 100% on them being implo, I could see SS in particular giving a flavorful kind of name like that, etc. what this means, practically is that if kkfc, cook, and ccs all flip town I’m not going to assume it makes you scum.

It’s also worth pointing out that cooks role as claimed really isn’t scum utility. Neg utility modifiers are conditiinally detrimental at best, and it’s perfectly reasonable that there would be a town role that targets for scum to give them shit like simple or shy or 1 shot. It’s about on the same level as a roleblocker as far as likeliness of being town goes. Frankly, if one of the listmods chose such a shit scum role for their choice I’m going to be disappointed in them.

The bit about play is the strongest bit in your case. Cook HAS dropped off since you started pushing her, both in quality of posting and amount. If I had more free time I’d meta dive to see how AI it is for cook to freeze under pressure like this, but that’s straight not in the cards. Without doing the research, I think it’s probably pretty strongly scum.

All of this adds to strong likelihood of cookscum, but not lockCookScum.

With that said, knowing aureal is a loud rb at worst tonight, I’d like her to be leashed to a pool and am willing to let her stay alive for a round. I’m not at all okay with her getting a vig shot without being proven as town.

I’d like aureals target to be chosen from the list of people other than theta and kkfc in amway. None of them have powers to be fucked with and that makes trackers outside that group more likely to see the killer since the killer won’t be likely to be in amway. All the amway people should send messages to someone unlikely to be killed assuming message doesn’t force recruit (other than theta, theta should neighbor).

I’ll actually draw up a night action plan for tonight before EoD. I am likely low access the next few days, but I should have time enough for that.

[Bingle]

i wish i had some idea of what was going on in this game

Recruit irch.

[Bingle]

Oh shit, I just promised to start levitating while VLA didn’t I?

[Bingle]

On a non game related note, there’s a dance game in the open queue that you may or may not have already received a private invite to. (I grabbed a bunch of names of people I enjoy at random for the first batch of targeted invites and will continue sending them if it’s not full next week.)

Anyone in this game would be a more than welcome addition to the dance.

[Bingle]

and i have accepted. whats the plan now?

Pm the mod. Presumably he’ll send you information on how to make a neighborhood. When you get that, make a neighborhood with irch.

[Bingle]

Theta is already done. She recruited skygazer and can't open anymore hoods. Skygazer needs to recruit two now

She's working on ircher and should then do save the dragons

Speaking of, save the dragons is v/la until Monday. Is there another role that is useless and can be recruited

Wrong. Skyg recruits irch. Irch recruits STD.

[Bingle]

Would it be good or bad for the lim to be on an Amwayd player?

Net neutral. Doesn't matter for future interactions.

[Bingle]

xyzzy is not a he

@xyzzy: my apologies, didn't mean to misgender you there.

Thanks for keeping me accountable, Aureal.

[Bingle]

Right, so actions:

Ircher should recruit Ranger, not STD. Ranger's role potentially has scum utility, STD is net neutral.

Amway players:

Aureal - 5-6 active. Can either hood or roleblock. Either way, she should target someone who scum would not want to roleblock. As such, she should target someone (other than theta) who is already a member of AMWAY. That way she can't be using her ability to secretly roleblock someone. This means scum in the Amway pool likely won't be the one to make the kill unless Aureal is scum herself.

Anix/Theta - Should target for scum, as they aren't reliable for innos. Theta can't target SkyG. Should not double up on targets, so Theta should target outside of Anix's potential target pool.

Ircher, Sky, KKFC, Ranger: should message me. I am not dying at night, and they don't have the ability to have information that should be selectively spread, so keeping the accountability is the best choice. It also makes any track result of not the BP an incriminating one, because the only non messaging action they could take would be a factional kill.

Cook: Target Koba. There is no neg utility modifier that influences death miller negatively as far as I know, but it should prove your role is what you say it is.

DE: Target me/aureal. Aureal and I are high priority clears that are unlikely to die.

Drew slot (Meuh, I think?) follow the advice for whomsoever you become.

PC: probably dies tonight if town. Go ham, buddy.

STD: does not target Amway.

I don't see any other roles that really need direction.

[Bingle]

Your neighborhood fails on Amway people who you don't have a neighborhood with?

[Bingle]

Klick is a good mechanical alternative to Ranger. I think Ranger is townier.

[Bingle]

are you kidding me bingle i have the most important night action

I’d pick Koba but it’s better if you aren’t targeted.

Aureal should either block in amway recruits or message me, depending on if I count towards total.

[Bingle]

I feel like I'm talking to a wall here. -_-

I am not going to use a roleblock even if I somehow have it available, I am going to use a regular neighborhood- on a non-Amway person so they can actually receive it- because I don't want to recruit any more people at this point since that limits Theta's investigation pool.

A message is even stupider- there's obviously no way of telling whether that came from me or from any of the other people with a recruit.

It's like Bingle doesn't even WANT my action to be confirmable.

A message is confirmable if we make every amway send them, they just have to include their name. A roleblock stopping said message also is confirmable, because said message would not appear. A neighborize only allows you to potentially spread your role unchecked, which is the whole point of forcing accountable actions.

[Bingle]

i'm fine with bingle's plan for my night action

can't see how it could make things worse for koba

koba are you okay with it

No I don't want to feed this role

How is giving you a random neg utility modifer for accountability “feeding” a role?

[Bingle]

Still kinda LA because I managed to get my ass sick. I’ll try to catch up tonight.

[Bingle]

Actually wait is Aureal considered Amwayd herself? If I inherit her role, do I lose my main ability to get other people's abilities because I'm in the Amway? Could I leave it and regain that power? :0

As I understand it amway-ing doesn’t effect passive abilities, only active night actions.

[Bingle]

I still do not think Aureal flips scum. I believe she was genuinely tilted by Koba and Bingle's push based on her posting in another game at the same time. She was accused of being scum or

bad town

and she took genuine offense to the criticism of her town play. If she's scum, why would she be so offended by that?

Spoiler:

I'm simultaneously getting shaded for my reads being too bad and my reads being too good. That's just lovely. :/

I don't really like how you're framing this... it's like framing it as if the points lobbed against you are somehow contradictory but I don't really think they are

Can't help feeling how I feel. They'd be contradictory points if they were from the same person, but it's still not a fun feeling.

I wish I could just shut off my memory that this site exists for the rest of the day and just go enjoy myself because I'm really not feeling too great right now.

Aureal, if you’re town, you did nothing wrong and it’s more of scum manipulating the game.

Thanks, I know that but it really helps to have someone else say so rather than trash on someone's play.

I also think she does have scumreads, but she's shutting down when engaged by certain people. I remember she scumread Alisae for mandela effecting the contents of their role pm. She also tried to get everyone to discuss the formatting of their role PM, and I don't think scum tries to do that since it partly breaks the game

I’ve addressed most of this previously. Outside of her readslist, every stance has been directly linked to supporting or not supporting amway. She wanted to do format claim early, when scum would presumably be aware they all had different formats so a format claim would be useless. She actively pushed back when Koba went to apply that to role buckets.

And aureal hasn’t been outraged over being called bad town, she’s actively avoided talking about the actual problem with her play, characterizing all of the pushes against her as being because of her role.

[Bingle]

it just kinda has to be cook or bingle but like idk how logical bingle is here i just dont have a good reason to clear town bingle here unless im like shown he is not prone to early bussing at all

Self meta, but I absolutely would not be looking to bus in this setup. It’s almost certainly immensely lopsided in towns favor and bussing when you’re at a mechanical disadvantage is usually just a great way to lose the game even faster.

[Bingle]

Dk what do you make of the timing of theta saying the recruit would work on scum? I mostly like the theta slot but that’s been giving me some concern.

[Bingle]

The point of the goddess role as comparison was not ever “aureal is scum for her role” for me. I have never argued that, despite her claiming I have repeatedly.

The point was that her claim isn’t even remotely close to inherently town. Even if she claimed accurately and there’s no additional parts to her role, it would be a completely reasonable scumrile, because scum would get access to the power first. Town getting a vig would be possible only if scum already had a vig, and scum would also have blanked night actions for a bunch of people in the process.

[Bingle]

About ofhrz’s townreading of the format claim shit from aureal, I’m hoping this doesn’t get me warned but it’s kinda close so :shrug:

The rules this game:

a sample role PM for the town is included at the bottom of this post. please keep in mind that the designers of this game may have used different formatting or wording than what you see in the sample role PM.

The setup for the previous veiled committee game having NAI role formatting.

The actual claims of traditionally scummy pm formats.

All of these point to pm format on an individual scale being NAI. A scumteam with four different PMs that all presumably have different formats would know this and thus would have no problem chasing down that red herring for town cred.

And this looks exactly like someone who doesn’t actually care about breaking the game with formatting and is milking it for cred:

Show of hands: who

doesn't

have a red PM, besides Ranger and Cook?

Well, I give up.

Either I've found like, the most easily outted scum team ever, or something weird is going on with role PMs.

Back to plotting evil, I guess.

Note: she still pursued the format thing in lieu of scumhunting after deciding the pm formats were probably NAI.

However when Koba actually brought up a way we could cheat for a town advantage:

also small little detail: i feel that the scum team received PMs that had different colors, as the fact that they are guaranteed to be formed of a team with a different designer for each role, which is what may have prompted the cook discussion about role PM colors. this is just theory crafting but how I explain that whole thing in a scum!cook world.

What happened to it being unethical to talk about PM colors?

Also what cook discussion?

I think the format discussion is pretty much the exact opposite of town indicative from aureal, and it’s baffling to me that anyone could think her attempt to not really accomplish anything would be town.

On another note, hunting this down gave me a reason to townread Ali that I’m not gonna expand on, so that’s nice.

[Bingle]

And for the “she’s just frustrated at being called bad town” crowd… she’s not. She’s frustrated that she came out of the jungle like Kaa singing Trust in Me and people had the gall to not immediately treat every word she said as gospel truth.

You know who gets really frustrated when they think their role should get them townread and it doesn’t? Everyone, including, and perhaps especially, scum.

[Bingle]

But put aside all of the amway nonsense and Aureal never actually having done any solving past “hurr durr people who don’t think I’m town are scum” and realize that she’s spent the last 70 or so pages misrepping my case on her as a mech push and repeatedly ignoring when I pointed out that it was not at all a mech push.

She needs to die first because her role is complicated and potentially deadly. She needs to die because she’s playing it like textbook scum. This is aureal going “how dare you try to lim me, I claimed rolecop!” With literally no other content.

[Bingle]

my apologies to the cook scumreaders who i called wrong but also pee pee poo poo u were also wrong on aureal (well most of you)

The moral of this story is that Bingle brings the cool AND the muscle.

[Bingle]

There's a single, large problem with the narrative of me being a traitor.

My role is confirmed.

[Bingle]

how

I attempted unsuccessfully to recruit both DE and Ircher several days after theta recruited me. In order for me to be traitor, Theta would have to be lying about having brought me into AMWAY or DE would have to be lying about not having been recruited. Both of those are really stupid things for a scum team to use as hard links to protect a traitor.

[Bingle]

Btw Bingle your thoughts on this now?

I still think that scum is in the less active faces.

It's also very likely scum is in the investigation claims, because there's no other sane reason they all survived with no protective roles.

[Bingle]

mainly bingle being rather insistent on wanting to be cleared by me

:/

This is a huge misrep, btw.

What actually happened was me complaining that I COULDN'T be confirmed by Theta.

[Bingle]

There's a single, large problem with the narrative of me being a traitor.

My role is confirmed.

Have you heard about this new opportunity to make extra income?

Yup.

[Bingle]

i will vote bingle if they refuse to interact with kkfcs recruitment phrase or if they get confirmed to be in amway

The proof of my claim isn't my inability to be in AMWAY, it's my inability to be given AMWAY abilities. I have no way of knowing whether I'm in AMWAY, which is kind of a thing we talked about yesterday.

[Bingle]

Are you paying attention at all this game?

Aureal and I both didn't know whether I would count as being in AMWAY. That was the whole source of ambiguity as to whether she would have 5 or 6 downline distributors.

Recruitment isn't a targeted ability by your claim, but that doesn't at all mean that it's not an ability, and saying it is is inane.

Further, you're arguing that I am scum and should be limmed when your argument necessitates DE being scum. You're going after the easier lim here why? When flipping DE proves I'm telling the truth about my role?

VOTE: Theta

[Bingle]

You are a town Amway consultant! you win once no members of opposing factions are alive, or when nothing can prevent this.

You have the following abilities.

Recruitment drive: during the day, you may quote a post (or part of a post) that someone else made, and respond with one of the following lines (without quotes):

And bullshit that recruitment is not an ability.

[Bingle]

Well, it's not private communication and I can quote it when the mod literally posted that recruitment drive

IS

an ability while flipping Aureal, so...

[Bingle]

In fact:

@xyzzy: Is recruitment drive an ability given to AMWAY recruits as per Aureal's flip?

[Bingle]

well i only needed a yes to one of those per what bingle said so
they should not have been able to become an amway consultant per their claim which included that they could not be recruited

Yeah, I paraphrased my role as can’t be recruited originally, because unrecruitable townie is a known anti cult role and that was easy to use as a paraphrase. The actual phrasing is that I can’t have my alignment changed. Your pretending to have me gotcha’d while specifically claiming the mod told you that the recruitment wasn’t an ability as justification for it not being affected by desperate when the mod just confirmed literally the opposite of that is still noted though.

I haven’t received any invitations to PTs today.

[Bingle]

well even if bingle isnt the traitor they could still be any other mafia role

That's literally untrue. The WHOLE POINT is that Bingle can only be (Incapable of getting new abilities) and the traitor role we just saw is not at all that.

I could be incapable of getting new abilities and mafia, theoretically, but I'm confirmed to have the former ability by DE.

[Bingle]

well even if bingle isnt the traitor they could still be any other mafia role

i mean

loudly proclaiming unrecruitable when an unrecruitable and not bulletproof traitor
kind of hard to imagine a scenario where bingle is not the traitor

This is appeal to incredulity, which is a classical logical fallacy.

Theta finds it hard to believe I'm a role that is similar to the role she is absolutely sure I am, when it is literally proven that I am said role. I find it hard to believe that there is a chance we're all going to be spaghettified by a black hole that our astronomers had no way of seeing coming tomorrow, but that doesn't make it any less possible. Theta, however, finds it hard to believe that something for which the evidence is strongly in favor of is true. The argument here is "I find it hard to believe the sky is blue." which is a nonsense argument.

[Bingle]

has everyone posted atleast once yet? Specifically has everyone who is neg utility claimed? There's something fun we can do with the claims + I think it's appropriate for me to fullclaim based on gamestate soon(but also we already have a fairly breakable aspect i think)

I’m negative utility if a specific role exists in this game and I think it’s very unlikely it does. Does that count?

Actually I don’t think slow rolling this aspect either makes much sense. Don’t target me if you’re an inventor or otherwise able to grant powers to other players. I explicitly can’t use abilities given to me by other players.

pedit: bingle what are your thoughts on a massclaim

Already mentioned:

Massclaim is unlikely to give us a complete break like it would in a poorly designed setup.
Massclaim is likely to widen whatever balance disparity already exists in the game. Whether that favors town or scum is a straight tossup, but I think at least SS and TBone will at least have given nominal consideration to how it'll effect the game.
Massclaim will vastly improve my own contributions to the game.

On a whole, I don't care one way or the other but I'm happy to start the process because I'm a glorified BP and losing access to that isn't really a big deal.

I'm an unchangeable townie. I can't be recruited, given powers, or have my role changed through any means. I can choose to be immune to all night kills or all actions other than night kills at night. I'm going to be choosing BP because why the fuck would I not?

[Bingle]

traitor pm specified you cant be recruited, this seems like a pretty big soft

Except the traitor PM has nothing that would stop me from being able to 'hood DE. Which I couldn't do. Mechanically.

[Bingle]

my point is that i already think your mafia outside of the traitor thing

Valid, although I'd ask why. If it's the Aureal push, I don't really feel bad about pushing that through given she played it in the least protown way possible. If you're talking about any of my other play, I think I've been pretty obviously townblocking since the word go and not seeing my towniness is a pretty willful disregarding of the time I've actually been around this game.

[Bingle]

so then is it safe to say bingle/aureal/the traitor are a group

I very much doubt I'm in a group with the traitor, our roles are TOO similar.

[Bingle]

p-edit
i cannot quote it since it was private communication but the mod did tell me that recruitment drive was an event and not an ability when explaining that my modifier would not affect it

I'm gonna point out again that Theta unambiguously lied about this. She said that the mod explicitly told her recruitment drive was not an ability as justification for it not being affected by the disloyal knockoff in an attempt to frame me. Recruitment is explicitly an ability. Legitimately, this is like theta coming in with a cop guilty on me and then a tracker saying "Wait a minute, you didn't visit Bingle last night."

[Bingle]

I'll just confirm the mechanics of it:

@Mod, assuming Koba really had the role they flipped with, they wouldn't be recruitable into amway, right?

Reading comprehension is tech. The traitor is specifically shown to not be recruitable to the main faction. Unless you’re arguing that amway is mechanically the “main faction” the traitor would have no interaction whatsoever with the amway role. Otoh, I quite literally provably did not receive the amway abilities.

Look, I understand that being able to read is more and more optional nowadays, but can we all at least pretend?

[Bingle]

my point is that i already think your mafia outside of the traitor thing

Still want to hear why, btw.

[Bingle]

isn't that the point?

Nah, the role buckets are roles we think were likely submitted by the same person. It's reasonable to think a cop, miller and godfather might all be submitted by a single name. It's less reasonable that a Night 2 cop and a Novice cop would be submitted by the same name.

[Bingle]

it was mainly because i thought your day 1 gameplay was inherently scummy and haven't been pinged in any way since

With the obvious exception of Aureal do you disagree with any of my conclusions from D1?

[Bingle]

wdym by a conclusion

My reads. Particularly, I came to pretty strong townreads on Ranger/DE/Anix/Koba and I think that scum is mostly if not exclusively in the low content players. Do you disagree/agree?

I was quite obviously wrong about Aureal scum, but do you think I'm right/wrong about my other reads and how does that factor into you thinking my D1 is sus?

[Bingle]

Which is...an alarmingly large portion of the playerlist. Objectively including myself.

Not really. Any tracked action is a clear wrt to being traitor for anyone not in AMWAY. Koba being a traitor is potentially a thing, but we can assume they weren’t safely and if the game ends after 3 scum lims we’ll be pleasantly surprised.

[Bingle]

There's a single, large problem with the narrative of me being a traitor.

My role is confirmed.

Have you heard about this new opportunity to make extra income?

Did we ever come to a conclusion here?

Joining amway isn’t the bit that conflicts with my role, being able to use the amway power is. The whole attempt was an attempt to paint me as confscum for word choice while paraphrasing while theta actually did lie about xyzzy saying the recruit wasn’t an action.

[Bingle]

If we get one more I’ll vote and unvote to prove myself.

[Bingle]

Again.

[Bingle]

It is kinda sus as hell that cook decided to target literally the only person who couldn’t be used to prove the existence of her role though.

[Bingle]

At least wait until Dragoneater comes off v/la before ending the day then

And wait until Political Cloud gets replaced, since he claimed some sort of investigative

Tracker, who loses the ability to act the next night if they target scum. A failure to be able to act is a cop guilty on the previous nights target that comes at start of night and can thus be communicated via hood without risk of nk or blocking. Being able to act is likewise an inno.

We should have everyone capable of doing so open a hood with PC but not recruit into amway.

[Bingle]

Saying Theta lied in regards to recruit being an action feels uncharitable and I don't get the impression that Theta lied here, regardless of alignment
I think Bingle does just flip scum here

Theta specified that xyzzy explicitly told her that recruitment was not an action in an attempt to claim that I was lying about not getting the ability to get an action. There’s really no room for wiggle room there: either xyzzy blatantly lied to her or she’s lying to us.

Further, there was scum motivation for doing so, because if desperate (or the actual equivalent) does work on the pt recruitment, that conftown both me and thetas other recruit, which theta scum would absolutely not want to happen.

[Bingle]

VOTE: bingle


UNVOTE:


Woooo I’m confirmed to still be the same role we already confirmed me to be. It’s MAGICAL!

Note, this doesn’t confirm cook tried to make me hated.

[Bingle]

i do not know of anyone else who could be the traitor besides bingle is the thing

Koba could be, as well as anyone whose role cannot be confirmed.

Which is...an alarmingly large portion of the playerlist. Objectively including myself.

Yep

I think there's a non zero probability of Koba being the traitor.

If Koba fakeclaimed death Miller as traitor that’s fucking hilarious. I don’t think it’s the case, but that’d be some Kodak moment shit there.

[Bingle]

If ranger targeted theta that’s a scumclaim. Theta theoretically investigates if town because of a modifier.

[Bingle]

Ofrhz had a pretty reasonable massclaim list I think.

[Bingle]

VOTE: bingle


UNVOTE:


Woooo I’m confirmed to still be the same role we already confirmed me to be. It’s MAGICAL!

Note, this doesn’t confirm cook tried to make me hated.

This doesn't confirm anything since you did it in the same post.

Ah as d Dr as fhekmfld

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a game where that wouldn’t count as a hammer in my decade on site.

I am now driving to irchers house to smack him with a giant tuna.

[Bingle]

Reminder that I’m confirming Koba was town here so a scum Koba world also means I’m scum

FWIW if Koba was scum they were also a godfather.

I don’t think Koba was scum.

[Bingle]

Theta claims it doesn’t remove passives which makes theta a disloyal neighborizor functionally.

[Bingle]

Mine were Traitor, Treevivor, Firebug, and Loan Shark

You monster.

[Bingle]

i'm putting amway in gim

It is a very gim role. By which I mean potentially insanely unbalanced and loosely defined.

[Bingle]

viewtopic.php?p=13927902#p13927902

and there we go

to tune up amway, i have given it additional power in the hands of scum:

• you gain more passive income and deny your recruits income
  
• you can, with enough passive income, recruit someone lower on the pyramid and mentor them

You realize this actually makes it worse for scum, right?

Scum can't use the extra passive income without outing scum and someone not getting expected income proves scum recruited them.