Mini 2331 - Touhou UPick: Anonymous Edition (Game Over)

[Clownpiece]

Out of all of the cute Anime girls I get stuck with the clown :/

VOTE: Eternity Larva

[Clownpiece]

Mod notes are confusing.

Each player has approximately a 50% chance that their Account Name and the Role Name are the same. Kagerou is apparently in the 50% that are different, and

Kagerou Imaizumi (account name) is confirmed to be Marisa Kirisame (role name)

[Clownpiece]

You not figuring that out during the pregame means you are much more likely to be town, so that is neat.

[Clownpiece]

I have an ability that, when I’m visited by anyone they’re notified that I’m part of the scum team. Even non-investigative roles.

If people get this message, regardless of their role, does that mean that an invest would actually get both a "Yuuka is part of the scum team" message and their true result?

[Clownpiece]

Mod notes are confusing.

Each player has approximately a 50% chance that their Account Name and the Role Name are the same. Kagerou is apparently in the 50% that are different, and

Kagerou Imaizumi (account name) is confirmed to be Marisa Kirisame (role name)

Source?

I asked the mod questions during the pre game.

Your Role Name was done like a normal uPick, where your role is your first choice unless multiple people picked the same person, at which point it went to your back ups.

Your Account name was 50% your first choice, 33% your second choice, and 17% your third choice. And this was done independently of your Role.

So if you assume everyone got their first pick, then everyone would have exactly a 50% chance to have their account and role match, the possibility of duplicates is why I said approximately.

You are welcome to ask the mod as well to confirm.

[Clownpiece]

If you were asking for my source for the bottom quote I made, I don't have any confirmation that that is what the mod is saying other then just how I read it based on the knowledge I had about how roles and accounts were formed.

[Clownpiece]

Out of all of the cute Anime girls I get stuck with the clown :/

VOTE: Eternity Larva

uPicked

I did not. I told the mod I am unfamiliar with the flavor, so he gave me 3 random Touhou characters, and told me to rank them. I ranked clownpiece third, and still ended up with it.

What made you ask about name generation?

I was given an account and a role that had different names, which led to me digging into.

[Clownpiece]

Not actually true. I personally was given the choice to have my name be either from my picks, or completely random, and have no reason believe only I was given that choice. Moreover, you pick 3 characters anyway, and getting the same name is... not exactly 50%, now is it.

This is not in line with how the mod explained role and account generation (as explained in post 20), unless I misunderstood something

[Clownpiece]

What does everyone think about Yuuka's claim? I'm kinda on the side of thinking it's more likely to be a scum role

I lean town on the role itself. I would be very mad at the mod if I was actually scum with that role lol.

[Clownpiece]

either way she'd probably claim it as both town and scum

But this is true.

The role is very confirmable, and therefore very likely to be real. And if real, they would claim it as either alignment.

[Clownpiece]

if they saw the same thing i did your 64 sounds like TMI sanae

For what its worth, I agree with Sanae. I have been liking Yuuka

[Clownpiece]

I was on the fence with Tenshi's super early posts, but I liked their explanations on page 4.

1 gold star for tenshi

[Clownpiece]

I have an ability that, when I’m visited by anyone they’re notified that I’m part of the scum team. Even non-investigative roles.

If people get this message, regardless of their role, does that mean that an invest would actually get both a "Yuuka is part of the scum team" message and their true result?

Good question. Asking.

Yes.

This actually makes me more inclined to think that Yuukai is town.

They just confirmed that a cop would get a true result, so throwing away the cop protection of a miller claim.

[Clownpiece]

Also you're probably

not

in the scum PT

?

Scum are much more likely to know about accounts and roles not matching then the average town player, and Tenshi's approach only makes sense if she did not know that that was a possibility.

[Clownpiece]

ok but why wouldn't mafia do that if they rolled such a role?

While they would claim the auto-guilty result, I don't think that they would be inclined to out anything about their second role.

I agree with Sanae here that there was an earnestness in the tone that I liked was well.

I think I have actually agreed with basically every Sanae post, which feels nice.

[Clownpiece]

I also find myself nodding along to Eternity Larva's posts.

[Clownpiece]

i'd rather keep it vague for now but on top of not looking like they're solving (which granted maybe that's just how i view things) they've been trying to distract people from pushing fowards the game

I had a town lean on page one, and I that has grown to 4. 4 reads on page 7 seems like a pretty solid pace to me lmao.

Also, unsure what the stopping the game from going forward even means, so :shrug:

[Clownpiece]

I think that this is where I am VOTE: Koishi Komeiji

But there are definitely a lot of players that are currently lost in the sauce

[Clownpiece]

I am aggressively on the fence about Kagerou

[Clownpiece]

Let's vote any of
VOTE: Aya Shameimaru
VOTE: Koishi Komeiji
VOTE: Kaguya Houraisan
VOTE: Ichirin Kumoi
VOTE: Daiyousei

There are probably two scum in this pool.

I did that!

[Clownpiece]

I just went to ISO the people on your list Marisa, only to discover that Aya has yet to join us smh.

[Clownpiece]

I am ~fine~ with Kaguya's iso.

Their progression on Tenshi feels in line with my own, although their vote and unvote both come after other people either started pushing there or started unvoting, so its worth a little less then general.

Although

I like Ichirins posts

Kaguya, what about Ichirin's posts at this point did you like?

[Clownpiece]

I actually feel like Ichirin's iso is kinda baren of any content so far.

[Clownpiece]

I now think that Marisa is very townie.

[Clownpiece]

@Marisa, what got Reisen off your list?

[Clownpiece]

Having looked back at Reisen's Iso

Exactly this, the speculation on account name vs flavor name feels floaty and pointless

I am still confused why people are acting like I was doing pointless set up spec, when I was both clearing up something that looked like a point of confusion and stating that that confusion resulted in me having a page 1 town read.

It was both useful clarifications and useful for reads >.<

[Clownpiece]

I now think that Marisa is very townie.

I promise I am not pocketing you but in the last two pages you went from nullscum to my strongest townread! Do you wanna be besties?

Mutual pocket achieved.

[Clownpiece]

I don't believe she has genuine suspicion of me/kagerou or actually townreads Marisa/Clownpiece/Tenshi/Yuuka/Eternity Larva.

Are you saying this because you actually don't find her reasonings genuine, or because you don't think it makes sense to have these reads in general?

If its the former, I would like further explanation, but if its the later I just don't find it particularly compelling because that is pretty inline with all of my reads.

Like, that is a list of my town reads, just sub me out for Sanae, and I am voting you. The only real difference is that I have conflicting opinions on Kagerou, which kinda cancel out to Null.

[Clownpiece]

what reasoning are you even talking about

I am asking you the basis of your statement. You said you "don't believe she has genuine suspicion" or "actually townreads"

I am asking you to clarify that statement. Is it based on not believing SHE has those reads, or that you don't think that A TOWNIE would have those reads.

[Clownpiece]

for me to find her reasoning "not genuine" I'd have to be able to read her reasoning to begin with. I didn't read much reasoning from her on her reads or how she got there.

I had the opposite opinion of Sanae's reads, and think that she has been pretty clear on why she has most of them, which is why I was asking for clarification.

I felt like her progression on tenshi was very clear. I felt like her takes on Yuuka's claim were word for word what I thought about Yuuka's claim, and she put them in thread first before me because the discussion happened while I was reading, so she could not have been mirroring my opinion.

Both of those felt really good to me.

Now with Eternity Larva she basically said "I agree with you Clownpiece," which I will admit is less impactful then the two above, but Eternity Larva is on the lower end of her town reads and it was stated why she made the list.

I think that Marisa is her only unexplained town read.

[Clownpiece]

methinks we have exactly one scum in {me / Koishi / Reisen / Yuuka}

Are you also self-obfuscating in some way?

[Clownpiece]

methinks we have exactly one scum in {me / Koishi / Reisen / Yuuka}

Are you also self-obfuscating in some way?

Less so than the others but i feel like my role name being announced to everyone is in the same family of modWIFOM

If that is the only thing about your role that made you include yourself, I would not count that as the same kind of things as:

Auto Claiming Scum, Day-Ascetic, Night-Ascetic, or Ninja

[Clownpiece]

I think that just probabilistically, if you take any list of 4 players, it is likely that there is at least 1 scum in there, so sure, there is probably a scum in that list.

But I don't think that it is an actionable realization.

[Clownpiece]

VOTE: ichirin

[Clownpiece]

I do not consider her "vibes" response to Yuuka read to be reasoning.

I do not consider "I agree with clownpiece" on Larva to be reasoning.

I found her conversation with Tenshi to be kind of sus, it just felt so convenient and neat.

Why does she townread you again? I forgot.

You and I have fundamentally different views on her Yuuka and Tenshi reads. (she had more specifics then just "vibes" with Yuuka)

But I actually think that the way you are digging your heels in over this to make it more likely that you genuinely feel this way

[Clownpiece]

Clownpiece, Clownpiece, a moment of your goofy time, if you could! What would you say is the driving force behind this wagon?

Her content has been so far limited to setup spec and her opinion on the mod color.

[Clownpiece]

A dastardly deed indeed! Though, this intrepid reporter has a follow up, if you have the time. Does scum tend to make themselves this unlikeable and overt in an anonymous game? This field reporter is doubtful!

Some scum do find it hard to get settled into the game, but my vote was more a demand for content then an intent to eliminate.

[Clownpiece]

I don't particularly like that town just randomly

Why assume we are town doing that, maybe you just found the entire scum team

[Clownpiece]

I don't particularly like that town just randomly

Why assume we are town doing that, maybe you just found the entire scum team

Marisa/Clownpiece/Yuuka nakedvoter scumteam would be funny but I think it's just the mind virus completely rewiring people's perceptions of a weird out-of-left-field vote.

Marisa is not one of the people who voted you.

[Clownpiece]

...

why would you be speaking in general, instead of specifically about the 3 people who all naked voted you?

[Clownpiece]

I am just confused on why you don't seem interested in determining the alignment of the people who voted you.

You started by saying it was town voting you, I asked why we could not be scum voting you (the full scum team part was a joke, but that was the idea), and you responded by not even knowing who was voting you.

I would expect some level of suspicion from someone who thinks that they are currently in serious danger of being miselimed (which I already felt was an exaggerated response to 3 votes), but you actually seem completely uninterested in your voters for some reason.

[Clownpiece]

It kind of comes across like you already knows that all three of us are town, so your goal is not to sort us, and your actual goal in this situation is just to change our mind by finding something to talk about/focus on (in this case Eternity Larva) to "show" that you are solving.

[Clownpiece]

Though now that my business is done and that you mention it, why'd you even hop on in the first place?

That question was already asked and answered

[Clownpiece]

by calling Ichrin's posts bad multiple times for reasons i cannot gather from reading the last couple pages

I am pretty sure that this was talking about Ichirin's first 7 posts (so up to 245), which make no attempt to do any solving.

[Clownpiece]

and call me tunneled if you want but it really feels like clown is not pushing Ichirin in good faith

at first it was just for content, but now I think that these posts

I don't particularly like that town just randomly swings 3 votes onto someone for funsies

I think it's just the mind virus completely rewiring people's perceptions of a weird out-of-left-field vote.

presuppose that we are town in a weird way coming from someone who had voiced no read on any of us up to that point.

[Clownpiece]

I'm willing to vote any of Kaguya, Tenshi or Daiyousei to try and move the needle on them a bit, as they've all kinda disappeared

How did you land on these 3 names, or more, how did you rule out the other low content players from being on this list.

[Clownpiece]

I'm probably not gonna be around again until Sunday

[Clownpiece]

I am not gonna be around, but did have a minute to skim through.

VC 1.05

Kagerou Imaizumi [3]:

Kaguya Houraisan, Daiyousei, Eternity Larva

Kaguya Houraisan [2]:

Marisa Kirisame, Ichirin Kumoi

Ichirin Kumoi [2]:

Clownpiece, Koishi Komeiji

Aya Shameimaru [1]:

Yuuka Kazami

Daiyousei [1]:

Kagerou Imaizumi

Clownpiece [1]:

Reisen Udongein Inaba

Not Voting [3]:

Tenshi Hinanawi, Aya Shameimaru, Sanae Kochiya

With

13

votes,

7

votes to Eliminate

I think that I am actively against a Kagerou wagon for day 1. They are not trying to fit in, while also not trying to steer us anywhere, and it is just enough for me to want to give them time to cook I guess.

Also, I have experienced being called scum as town for similar reasons to the "is self aware of how many town reads they have" before, which I actually think boils down to the way I exist in the thread, and without doing any actually looking back, I feel like those accusations have generally come from town?

I am not married to them being town, but I feel like I don't want then going over day 1.

fwiw Kagerou, I do not have the number of town reads ready off the top of my head, but my response to seeing someone say I was not solving was an immediate "that feels like an odd characterization of me, as I feel like I actually have more reads then normal for this stage of the game." And once I stopped to think about my reads, it is pretty easy to produce a count of how many town reads I have.

makes me seem she was worried about finding something to start things off while also not caring very much about asking

I actually asked a lot of questions about account/role generation before the game started, and I am still pretty sure that the way I explained it on page 1 was the correct way everything was generated. I actually think that Ichirin (the person who said that my answer was not in line with what the mod asked them about generation) misunderstood the "Mod Choose Randomly For Me" option. I just did not think that it was worth getting further in the weeds on it.

[Clownpiece]

But basically, when we joined we had the option of "mod please pick for me" and "here are my 3 picks"

Ichirin thought that the "mod please pick for me" option would have made the odds basically unknowable, but the thing is I

Actually chose that option

, and the result was that the mod gave me 3 random picks, with a picture and a 1 line description. and told me to sort them.

So either path resulted in a ranked list of 3.

[Clownpiece]

I would also say that I don't think that I am the one who drug out the discussion on the topic.

I wrote post 20 to be very precise, to state that I got my numbers from the mod, and to welcome everyone to double check my numbers with the mod, because I thought including all of that would make it NOT be a continued discussion.

[Clownpiece]

methinks we have exactly one scum in {me / Koishi / Reisen / Yuuka}

Are you also self-obfuscating in some way?

Less so than the others but i feel like my role name being announced to everyone is in the same family of modWIFOM

If that is the only thing about your role that made you include yourself, I would not count that as the same kind of things as:

Auto Claiming Scum, Day-Ascetic, Night-Ascetic, or Ninja

So, I was just thinking about the game earlier, and I remembered this exchange, and I actually just realized that I also belong on this list.

I was kind of not thinking about my role in that way, but actually, yeah, I self-obfuscate tonight.

[Clownpiece]

actually hmmm

one thing i find weird is how Marisa didn't include Tenshi in her vote pool

VOTE: Tenshi

I actually questioned them about Reisen being left off, and they volunteered an answer for both Resin and Tenshi being left off. 188

Their explanation actually made more sense for Tenshi then for Reisen imo, unless I am missing more Reisen town reads at that point then I am remembering.

[Clownpiece]

Oh, it appears I linked the wrong post, that should have been 205

[Clownpiece]

and well, it's still somewhat strange Marisa thought she wouldn't have the votes on Tenshi but included other slots in the same situation like it's no biggie

I actually think that in context leaving Tenshi off made sense, because in the pages leading up to Marisa making her elim pool, multiple people were voting Tenshi and questioning her about her interaction with me, and then at the end of those questions multiple people unvoted and said that they all liked her reactions.

So, her "I didn't think that people would agree on" Tenshi made a lot of sense to me. I think that you were the only people that I remember voicing a town read on Reisen at that point, so that is the one that I did not understand.

[Clownpiece]

I am gonna largely pretend that that last Sanae and Aya exchange does not exist, because engaging with it feels icky, but

I'm saying that if Ichirin was scum she came out and chose violence.

I have seen this voiced a couple times (it may have been Aya both times, but I *think* it was actually someone else the first time, but I have not looked back).

But like... my interpretation of Ichirin's response was the exact opposite. Her response did feel like it was designed to appease her voters, but it just back fired.

She immediately went and found a New and Novel thing to be suspicious of, and double and tripled down on it (to a silly degree imo), when the main accusation was that there was no sign of solving from her, and it felt like she was avoiding questioning her voters - like her goal was just to change our minds.

It was not until Yuuka kept being so aggressive that she started to snap back at one of her voters.

[Clownpiece]

It was not until Yuuka kept being so aggressive that she started to snap back at one of her voters.

And even while doing so, repeatedly called Yuuka town

[Clownpiece]

I

I'm allowed to be frustrated with someone's behaviour. Let me fucking have that without demonizing it like it's wrong to feel negative emotions.

I would just say that the same applies to me. I feel negative emotions reading your posts.

My reaction was to try to not engage with it, so please don't try to pull me into it.

[Clownpiece]

Fine I will engage.

I think that Sanae's posts were all benign and perfectly in line with how the game is played

And then your posts are not. They actively sap my enjoyment of the game, and make me feel like I should never engage with you for the rest of the game, because I can see myself making basically the same posts as Sanae, but absolutely don't want to have those same style of posts directed at me.

You can be frustrated, and even say you are frustrated, but before it reaches the point that you were making the posts you were making, I wish you would just go take a walk instead of deciding that you should single handedly tank the thread energy.

[Clownpiece]

Can we just kill Ichirin now?

[Clownpiece]

in an iso vacuum i'm still not thrilled with aya's body of work but this post and sanae co-signing it in 598 makes me want absolutely nothing to do with voting aya for the foreseeable future and everything to do with exterminating the kagerou/sanae mafpair asap

Looking at the two posts, I felt like Sanae's 598 was a demonstrably different point, not just "co-signing" the original

[Clownpiece]

Like, Sanae's drops the idea that idea that it is intentional, and then says that it might imply Aya is town.

[Clownpiece]

Can we just kill Ichirin now?

ok but like, why? And also no, Ichirin is being towny

where?

[Clownpiece]

I've already cooled off from wanting to the day to end.

I was still kind of in the "I don't want to deal with this thread energy anymore" headspace, and thought it would be better if it was just over, and we all had a night phase to cool off.

But the thread energy has returned to good vibes, so I'm okay again

[Clownpiece]

I haven't really given more thought to the slot, this is still about hir reaction to the flashwagon

But I actually scum read their reaction to the flashwagon, so this certainly wont change my mind without quite a bit more words on why it was town.

[Clownpiece]

Plus, since then, it feels like they suddenly had a topic to pursue with all their might when they got pressure, but then they just... stopped pursuing anything as soon as the thread focus moved away from them.

[Clownpiece]

None of these complete wagons spark joy. I am concerned about that.

Who would it spark joy from you to see wagons on?

[Clownpiece]

I got an early town read on Tenshi that I have yet to re-evaluate. They have not sparked alignment based thoughts in me (in either direction) in a while.

[Clownpiece]

Reading through Kaguya's iso, I guess I could be convinced to be on that wagon, but I am not excited by the idea.

[Clownpiece]

I have stared at the playerlist, and picked out the people who I think have given me enough ~vibes~ that I feel like they should make it past day 1. (List sorted by playerlist order, not by strength of read. I did not give it that much thought lmao)

Tenshi, Aya, Yuuka, Kagerou, Koishi, Eternity Larva, Marisa, Reisen, and Sanae

Which leaves me with [Kaguya, Ichirin, Daiyousei] for my day 1 elimination pool.

[Clownpiece]

I feel like some people approach this game trying to play 5d chess, and when its happening in thread I just feel lost.

[Clownpiece]

They say they're not in a position to push players traditionally, but pretty much, nothing is indicating that this is the case.
They're here, they're active, they're relatively cogent, and their opinions and points are not insane.
They can push whenever they want, they've chosen not to.

Y-y-you really think my opinions and points are not insane?

And yeah look whatever confidence issues, i don't trust i'd be able to bring it home by playing normally so i'm doing it like that regardless

I don't think that you have the thread presence to materialize a wagon on any of the people that you listed in your "high charisma players" list, but I feel like you could reasonably make a push happen on other players.

But your votes so far have not felt like they have actually come with any real attempt to get people to follow you.

But you are also outwardly saying that you are not trying to lead people this game, so :shrug:

[Clownpiece]

I have to respond to everyone because no one has invited me to dance, duh

Spoiler:

Fair warning, I don't know how to do the 5d chess dancing. I would just be posting dancing gifs.

[Clownpiece]

Well, look i think i know myself and my capabilities better than you do right? Especially since we're in anon format

I'm just saying that you have an approach and posting style that I gravitate towards, and I actually think that if your most verbose scum case was against someone other then me, I might be inclined to follow you.

[Clownpiece]

Well, look i think i know myself and my capabilities better than you do right? Especially since we're in anon format

I'm just saying that you have an approach and posting style that I gravitate towards, and I actually think that if your most verbose scum case was against someone other then me, I might be inclined to follow you.

Maybe tommorow i'll be in a scumcasing mood, can't promise anything

Okay, just promise you wont come back with another clownpiece scum case, because I still cant follow you on that one

[Clownpiece]

Why is Ichirin town, sanae?

+1

[Clownpiece]

I got sniped, smh

[Clownpiece]

Am I just tunneled on this? Because I just keep seeing people who seem to at least be mildly competent at this game point to the exact same series of posts that I hate, and saying it makes Ichirin town.

[Clownpiece]

Why don’t you like that series of posts, Clownpiece?

The strength in which they threw themselves into questioning Eternity Larva felt performative.

It came immediately after they were being accused of not having content, and then they suddenly have discovered The Thing That Is So Important To Question That They Must Get The Answer Before They Die.

It felt reactionary to the lack of sorting accusations.

[Clownpiece]

I am indifferent to the "Assaulted." post.

[Clownpiece]

Why don’t you like that series of posts, Clownpiece?

The strength in which they threw themselves into questioning Eternity Larva felt performative.

It came immediately after they were being accused of not having content, and then they suddenly have discovered The Thing That Is So Important To Question That They Must Get The Answer Before They Die.

It felt reactionary to the lack of sorting accusations.

I attribute Aya’s shift into traditional analysis and Kagerou’s read wall in the same vein, albeit they were more sensitive. Did you provide reasoning for why their response is different from those examples?

Want to provide links to the posts that you felt like that about?

[Clownpiece]

I have never felt like Kagerou was lacking in reads, so I did not notice a suddenly reactionary read wall.

[Clownpiece]

When I did my Stare At The Playerlist thing for 743, I actually had to iso Reisen becuase I realized that I could not recall a single post that they had made. But then I quite liked these two posts:

Spoiler:

Reisen can you elaborate on your 'ew' pile? Our reads seem to align in that regard but i want to know why you feel that way

They aren’t going to be for the same reasons cuz I’m super selfish and the world revolves around me but.

I thought kagerou putting me in their town core off just my ascetic claim was super weird. Marisa piggybacked on but I get their mindset because I’m also predisposed to town reading lighthearted jokey slots especially early in games. So reads genuine.

Kagerous read felt more like my name was thrown in there for the out of the box factor, because that’s just what townies do.

Dai felt more upset that I was being considered townie for doing nothing and I could see that as more scum frustration. So could I can see multiple worlds there.

I don’t think they are together.

Also I’ll add that I’ve lightened up on the kagerou read solely because of koishi who has shot up to one of my stronger townreads.

I had a pet theory that kagerou was OVERLY familiar with koishi, suggesting they were in a pt together.

I quoted the post but it seemed Fmpov that kagerou had a bead on who koishi was and that would have to come from more correspondence than was in the thread because I don’t think they had much interaction before that point?


But I’m at the point where I feel strongly that koishi is town and I’m just chasing ghosts there.

so I bumpped her into my Can Live To Day 2 Pile

[Clownpiece]

They just rang true in my brain as True And Genuine Thoughts.

[Clownpiece]

I think that my vote on Ichirin is being wasted because no one agrees with me

I think that VOTE: Daiyousei is probably my preferred vote excluding Ichirin.

[Clownpiece]

You can take it at face value and agree that their strategy wasn't working, so they went to a more traditional place. But I think they read people's suspicions of them and the requests they make. It depends how you feel about them

I guess I see what you are saying, but I guess I don't see it as the same thing as I saw with Ichirin.

Kagerou already had all of those reads stated prior, they just stopped and explained more because people kept asking them to. Ichirin suddenly found a new thing that was THAT IMPORTANT in that exact moment.

I guess the difference being that Kagerou's might be reactionary to being what was said, but did not come across as performative/fake.

[Clownpiece]

I responded to you on the previous page Clownpiece.
Fyi. I'm not sold that my own reasoning is valid.

I saw both, just responded in the order of effort needed from me. I had already dont all the thinking about Reisen earlier today, and yours was gonna need a close read and think

[Clownpiece]

Clownpiece, is basically a universal town read at this point.

I got you guys right where I want you

Spoiler: where I want you

[Clownpiece]

I feel like my Reisen post deserved more words to it, but I am developing a pretty bad head ache that I think I might go try to sleep off, so that might not be a thing that happens any time soon.

[Clownpiece]

@Larva-San
@Kagerou-Chan
@Clownpiece-Chan
@Kochiya-Sama

What do you think about voting Daiyousei? It seems you are all very divided. But to win we must unite

I already voted for Daiyousei after this vote count happened

As a side note, is there a reason why Kagerou Imaizumi gets referred to by their first name while Sanae Kochiya gets her last name? I think ive finally gotten everyone's first name down, but anytime I see a last name I have to stop and look up who is being reference >.<

[Clownpiece]

Okay, the more verbose version of why I chose to take Reisen out of my day 1 vote pool

Reisen can you elaborate on your 'ew' pile? Our reads seem to align in that regard but i want to know why you feel that way

They aren’t going to be for the same reasons cuz I’m super selfish and the world revolves around me but.

I thought kagerou putting me in their town core off just my ascetic claim was super weird. Marisa piggybacked on but I get their mindset because I’m also predisposed to town reading lighthearted jokey slots especially early in games. So reads genuine.

Kagerous read felt more like my name was thrown in there for the out of the box factor, because that’s just what townies do.

Dai felt more upset that I was being considered townie for doing nothing and I could see that as more scum frustration. So could I can see multiple worlds there.

I don’t think they are together.

I think that Reisen not liking [that Kagerou started town reading them so easily], while also not liking that Dai didn't like [that Kagerou started town reading them so easily] has a kind of built in incongruity that scum would try to iron out before making this kind of post. And her just posting it made me feel like she is not actually worried about feeling consistent in made up reads, and is actually just True Thoughts Posting, and accepting any internal incongruities that exist in their thought process.

The approach to reading slots being so self referential also gives those vibes, that they are just True Thoughts Posting.

As well as having your 2 strongest scum reads pile be one of the very few (maybe only at that point?) people town reading you at that point, just seems like an odd path to take as scum.

Also I’ll add that I’ve lightened up on the kagerou read solely because of koishi who has shot up to one of my stronger townreads.

I had a pet theory that kagerou was OVERLY familiar with koishi, suggesting they were in a pt together.

I quoted the post but it seemed Fmpov that kagerou had a bead on who koishi was and that would have to come from more correspondence than was in the thread because I don’t think they had much interaction before that point?


But I’m at the point where I feel strongly that koishi is town and I’m just chasing ghosts there.

This also feels like the type of argument that scum would not think to fake, and is just a novel suspicion to have.

[Clownpiece]

I could still vote Kaguya after their catch up posts.

[Clownpiece]

Reading through Kaguya's iso, I guess I could be convinced to be on that wagon, but I am not excited by the idea.

I have stared at the playerlist, and picked out the people who I think have given me enough ~vibes~ that I feel like they should make it past day 1. (List sorted by playerlist order, not by strength of read. I did not give it that much thought lmao)

Tenshi, Aya, Yuuka, Kagerou, Koishi, Eternity Larva, Marisa, Reisen, and Sanae

Which leaves me with [Kaguya, Ichirin, Daiyousei] for my day 1 elimination pool.

[Clownpiece]

I read your catch up posts a couple times, and my overwhelming response was : "meh"

So my opinion has not been swayed.

[Clownpiece]

I read your catch up posts a couple times, and my overwhelming response was : "meh"

So my opinion has not been swayed.

I on the other hand read them as was left feeling whelmed.

The irony of calling them meh after their vote on Marisa is not lost on me though!

It was an unintended irony.

I was thinking of Rupaul saying "meh" to two performers right after they did a Lipsynch for their life.

[Clownpiece]

I have stared at the playerlist, and picked out the people who I think have given me enough ~vibes~ that I feel like they should make it past day 1. (List sorted by playerlist order, not by strength of read. I did not give it that much thought lmao)

Tenshi, Aya, Yuuka, Kagerou, Koishi, Eternity Larva, Marisa, Reisen, and Sanae

Which leaves me with [Kaguya, Ichirin, Daiyousei] for my day 1 elimination pool.

Why was Reisen in the vibes list when you posted this

I have already expounded on this, and actually just posted my long form version of these thoughts like less then an hour ago

Spoiler: relevant quotes

When I did my Stare At The Playerlist thing for 743, I actually had to iso Reisen becuase I realized that I could not recall a single post that they had made. But then I quite liked these two posts:

Spoiler:

Reisen can you elaborate on your 'ew' pile? Our reads seem to align in that regard but i want to know why you feel that way

They aren’t going to be for the same reasons cuz I’m super selfish and the world revolves around me but.

I thought kagerou putting me in their town core off just my ascetic claim was super weird. Marisa piggybacked on but I get their mindset because I’m also predisposed to town reading lighthearted jokey slots especially early in games. So reads genuine.

Kagerous read felt more like my name was thrown in there for the out of the box factor, because that’s just what townies do.

Dai felt more upset that I was being considered townie for doing nothing and I could see that as more scum frustration. So could I can see multiple worlds there.

I don’t think they are together.

Also I’ll add that I’ve lightened up on the kagerou read solely because of koishi who has shot up to one of my stronger townreads.

I had a pet theory that kagerou was OVERLY familiar with koishi, suggesting they were in a pt together.

I quoted the post but it seemed Fmpov that kagerou had a bead on who koishi was and that would have to come from more correspondence than was in the thread because I don’t think they had much interaction before that point?


But I’m at the point where I feel strongly that koishi is town and I’m just chasing ghosts there.

so I bumpped her into my Can Live To Day 2 Pile

They just rang true in my brain as True And Genuine Thoughts.

I feel like my Reisen post deserved more words to it, but I am developing a pretty bad head ache that I think I might go try to sleep off, so that might not be a thing that happens any time soon.

Okay, the more verbose version of why I chose to take Reisen out of my day 1 vote pool

Reisen can you elaborate on your 'ew' pile? Our reads seem to align in that regard but i want to know why you feel that way

They aren’t going to be for the same reasons cuz I’m super selfish and the world revolves around me but.

I thought kagerou putting me in their town core off just my ascetic claim was super weird. Marisa piggybacked on but I get their mindset because I’m also predisposed to town reading lighthearted jokey slots especially early in games. So reads genuine.

Kagerous read felt more like my name was thrown in there for the out of the box factor, because that’s just what townies do.

Dai felt more upset that I was being considered townie for doing nothing and I could see that as more scum frustration. So could I can see multiple worlds there.

I don’t think they are together.

I think that Reisen not liking [that Kagerou started town reading them so easily], while also not liking that Dai didn't like [that Kagerou started town reading them so easily] has a kind of built in incongruity that scum would try to iron out before making this kind of post. And her just posting it made me feel like she is not actually worried about feeling consistent in made up reads, and is actually just True Thoughts Posting, and accepting any internal incongruities that exist in their thought process.

The approach to reading slots being so self referential also gives those vibes, that they are just True Thoughts Posting.

As well as having your 2 strongest scum reads pile be one of the very few (maybe only at that point?) people town reading you at that point, just seems like an odd path to take as scum.

Also I’ll add that I’ve lightened up on the kagerou read solely because of koishi who has shot up to one of my stronger townreads.

I had a pet theory that kagerou was OVERLY familiar with koishi, suggesting they were in a pt together.

I quoted the post but it seemed Fmpov that kagerou had a bead on who koishi was and that would have to come from more correspondence than was in the thread because I don’t think they had much interaction before that point?


But I’m at the point where I feel strongly that koishi is town and I’m just chasing ghosts there.

This also feels like the type of argument that scum would not think to fake, and is just a novel suspicion to have.

[Clownpiece]

Who is the bird girl?

[Clownpiece]

The reporter. Aya.

I see. I have Aya=Reporter down, but this is the first I am hearing that she is bird affiliated

[Clownpiece]

Crow Tengu, Reporting in on Scene

You were right, she did mention it, it just was not something that became stored in my brain

[Clownpiece]

I just have not looked up anyone's flavor. Knowing that not everyone's flavor matches their account name made it feel like a futile effort until we eventually hit mass claim day.

[Clownpiece]

Purple is the mod’s color.

This is so fucked up.

Oh nvm it's this post. I read it as "It's so fucked up that purple is the mods color"

I also read that post as "its so fucked up [that the mod has claimed the color purple]" and not "its so fucked up [that yuuka called someone out for using purple]"

But I think that I would have voted Ichirin at that point with either reading of it tbh.

[Clownpiece]

i am the last fairy to talk about anything for which the explanation may simply be "haven't had the time" but i do find it highly amusing when people mention they want to iso me when my post count is nearly half of the next-lowest post count

you're all welcome for me making my iso quick and easy to read lol ^_^ clearly fairy posting is the true good posting

I think that it takes me 4 times as long (on average) to read your posts than it takes me (on average) to read anyone else's posts , so your iso would be like the 3rd longest to read lol

[Clownpiece]

(i will drop the rp and silly source material references if it becomes inhibiting for ppl tho)

Although, I dont think that it has anything to do with the rp elements, and more to do with how you format your content posts.

They requires Heavy Manual Labor to parse and dissect.

[Clownpiece]

VOTE: ichirin

I feel like I’d have to pull a Holmes type of case out to pursue my scumreads so I’ll sit on it for now.

Which reads are you referring to when you said this?

Kaguya Houraisan - null scum
Eternity Larva - null scum
Ichirin Kumoi - null scum
Daiyousei - null scum

I think that the only person on this list that would fit the bill would Eternity Larva, are they your strongest null scum read?

[Clownpiece]

I feel like I was expecting like ~3 super spicy scum reads after reading 988, and then got hit with my exact poe + Eternity Larva lol

[Clownpiece]

ebwop:

2~3

[Clownpiece]

VOTE: ichirin

I feel like I’d have to pull a Holmes type of case out to pursue my scumreads so I’ll sit on it for now.

Which reads are you referring to when you said this?

Kaguya Houraisan - null scum
Eternity Larva - null scum
Ichirin Kumoi - null scum
Daiyousei - null scum

I think that the only person on this list that would fit the bill would Eternity Larva, are they your strongest null scum read?

Why do you keep making posts I was going to make?

Curse my inability to get to a real PC until this evening.

My super power is hearing your inner most desires

[Clownpiece]

Except one other edit, I'd argue that it's more the current consensus POE than just yours, Clownpiece.

There has been so much resistance to Ichirin that I don't know if I would include her in a consensus POE, but that may just be because I am the one who kept attempting (and failing) to fight off that resistance.

I think that a consensus PoE would also include Reisen herself, but obviously that would not matter when she was the one making the list.

[Clownpiece]

Eternity and new koichi specifically

I see, I did not realize that "the void" was a scum read, I originally read it as True Null.

[Clownpiece]

Would you rank "the void" as a stronger or weaker scum read then those you listed as null scum?

[Clownpiece]

I feel like I was expecting like ~3 super spicy scum reads after reading 988, and then got hit with my exact poe + Eternity Larva lol

lol sorry to get your hopes up.

If you are scum reading Koichi AND Eternity Larva, then I did get 2~3 spicy scum reads!

[Clownpiece]

What are your thoughts on koichi clown? I feel like we’re thinking along the same lines for the most part.

I have them in my town enough for day 1 pile, but I would have to look back to remember why

[Clownpiece]

Oh yeah, I did bite for the "Red Role PM" thing.

[Clownpiece]

I also remember liking more things, but would have to look.

[Clownpiece]

Oh yeah, oh yeah, I liked original kokichi early for their interactions with Sanae

[Clownpiece]

Wait, that was tenshi.

That is what I get for trying to remember instead of looking

[Clownpiece]

Okay, working through Koishi's iso, I was not a fan of their early posts, but when I pushed them I liked their reaction. It felt like they were doubling down on a thought in a way that made me think they Really believed their position

Then, I felt like we were seeing the same things with Ichirin.

And then when they replaced, the Red Role PM post spoke to my soul.

And I just kinda stopped thinking about them very much after that.

On a second read through of their iso after that, I guess I am not finding a lot of Alignment Indicitive Posts in either direction, and just a lot of

"can actively participate in the thread without sounding awkward"

[Clownpiece]

Let’s talk about Tenshi then, they’re my only true null.

Here is the thing, you are asking me thoughts on slots that I have just generally done a ~fine~ I guess you make it to day 2. And not slots I have a lot of thoughts about lol

I actually think that Tenshi has been under my radar for a long time, in that I was focused on them early on, I gave them a single gold star, and then their posts have not sparked a lot of thoughts in me since.

[Clownpiece]

I think I’m relatively satisfied with where my reads are at, so, as long as nobody threatens them
I’m okay.

I think Reisen, Larva, and clown piece are town.

Larvae is strongest TR.
followed by clown.
Followed by Reisen.

can you elaborate a bit on the Reisen TR?

I would add that I also feel better about Reisen after our last exchange. There was not anything ground breaking, but they just gave off The Best Of Vibes.

I think I would bump them up from Sure, They Can Live Day 1, to a pretty solid town lean.

[Clownpiece]

I would also like people to engage me and stop ignoring me

I reserve the right to ignore you, because you ignored my offer to dance

[Clownpiece]

I decided to make a reads list that was more then just structured them my PoE post.

Town:
Eternity Larva
Yuuka

Town Lean:
Marisa
Sanae
Reisen

I've seen enough to let them make it past day 1, but not solid reads by any means:
Koishi
Tenshi
Aya
Kagerou


I have seen enough to let them die on day 1, but not solid reads by any means:
Daiyousei
Kaguya

No one wants to listen to me, but I still think that this is scum:
Ichirin

[Clownpiece]

Could you go in more details over your Yuuka townread? That's like, pretty sudden of you to put her this high i think

I have been leaning town on Yuuka since like page 1 of the game, and it has just steadily gotten stronger with time.

I liked they way their claimed their miller role, but more then that, I liked that they then walk away from the protection of a miller role, by confirming that actually an invests will get a true result on them in addition to their miller message.

Their abrasiveness is certainly not going to garner them any friends, and is something that I think that they would temper as scum.

I feel like I can see the solving gears turning in their head as they work through the game, and I feel like everywhere they are poking and proding makes sense to me every time in context that it is happening.

I think that their suspicions on you in particular come across as pretty genuine, and that your alignment is something that they are mulling over in their mind. An example being that I quite liked that when I voiced my problem with Ichirin's post in 792, they had an instant thought association to a post like ~350 earlier that had pinged them in a similar way.

Spoiler: relevant quotes

Why don’t you like that series of posts, Clownpiece?

The strength in which they threw themselves into questioning Eternity Larva felt performative.

It came immediately after they were being accused of not having content, and then they suddenly have discovered The Thing That Is So Important To Question That They Must Get The Answer Before They Die.

It felt reactionary to the lack of sorting accusations.

I attribute Aya’s shift into traditional analysis and Kagerou’s read wall in the same vein, albeit they were more sensitive. Did you provide reasoning for why their response is different from those examples?

And also, this reaction to you felt much more like a genuine cautiousness of your play

I probably won’t even wait and immediately detail the wagon.

And in general, I feel like most every attempt that someone has tried to call them scummy (at least that I have seen) seemed to boil down to things that I think are just posting style / tone conflicts (and ones that I think that Yuuka would be able to adjust for if scum, but they are just not playing with a scum filter on).

[Clownpiece]

I also have considered more, and I think that I am enticed slightly more with a VOTE: kaguya over my current vote.

But I could go back to Dai at any moment (gotta keep 'em guessing)

[Clownpiece]

Its always sad when you make a a big content posts and then refresh for 5 mins straight, and no one is here to talk to you about is

[Clownpiece]

Its always sad when you make a a big content posts and then refresh for 5 mins straight, and no one is here to talk to you about is

I'm here-ish but you probably don't want me.

Why would I not want you?

[Clownpiece]

(although, that post was me giving up and going to do something else lol)

[Clownpiece]

Its always sad when you make a a small post and then refresh for 60 seconds straight, and no one is here to talk to you about it

Im sorry

[Clownpiece]

No one wants to listen to me, but I still think that this is scum:
Ichirin

Yeah about that.

Radioactive decay theory is a thing.

I cannot quite parse what you are trying to say here

[Clownpiece]

The blue haired one read is decaying with a half life of half a day because it feels like said blue haired one got enough Town Cred and rode off into the sunset of low posting.

I said that!

[Clownpiece]

I know, I am happy to receive the validation.

No idea why you thought I would not want you to be the one to talk to me, if you were just gonna come agree with me.

I love it when people agree with me.

[Clownpiece]

You're my new best friend

Spoiler:

Yes, its that easy to get on my good side, just come tell me how right I am on my Ichirin read

[Clownpiece]

Being able to just google our account names, and find art of our characters together is a neat feature of this anon game.

[Clownpiece]

t would be a weird choice for scum in Kaguya's position, who is likely seeing the writing on the wall that she is in the PoE pool, to just throw out a Marisa vote and barely even substantiate or push it? i expect calculated scum to target a potential town bloc player to make a splash or go against the grain in a way that will garner town reads on them and help them escape the elimination pool. Kaguya's stance on Marisa does not feel manipulative in that way and does not further an agenda whatsoever, it keeps her more removed from the "in-crowd" and she doesn't really seem to care

I seem to remember their Marisa vote came right after like 3-4 other people (purely based off of memory here) voiced concerns about town reading too many high post count players, which makes the play less odd for scum to make imo.

Someone then questioned them about the "meh town players" and who else that referred to, and when they were unable to back it up, it made it feel more like they could have just been tacking onto the "we should be paranoid of the townie people" (said in a spooky voice for effect) bandwagon

I also did not like their Yuuka vote, as basically everything that they responded to leading up to the vote did not actually come with an alignment indicative comments, and seemed more rooted in Yuuka's posts being displeasing instead of scummy, which made it feel like it could be scum sorting instead of town sorting.

[Clownpiece]

I'm feeling sort of out of this game

How are things in your neighborhood?

[Clownpiece]

Yes hi that was also me.

Now I am echoing your word back into the thread to say that I agree with you!

We really should be best friends!

[Clownpiece]

Sanae, where are you at on you poe?

Like, top 3 picks for elimination today?

[Clownpiece]

Dai, Kaguya, Aya (I admit I may be biased on that one), if I swap out the last one Reisen

If this is roughly how you are ranking them, why is your vote on Reisen instead of Dai/Kaguya?

[Clownpiece]

have a lot less content than one would expect with your post count

fwiw, I had a similar reaction when I did a koishi ISO earlier.

[Clownpiece]

Re: Yuuka, is someone shading someone by talking nonsense townie now somehow?

Here is the only post about Yuuka you made before the vote

The assaulted one is the post you’re looking for in exhibit A for” this can’t possibly be real/serious”

They never said it was a joke.
So, I’m not taking it as one.

Horrendous take

You have twisted my position into saying that those post are townie, when in fact I think that it is a Yuuka-ism in a way that is entirely divorced from alignment

I found it a little hard to swallow that you think that Yuuka taking Ichirin's post seriously, and not as a joke, is something that would be based on Yuuka's alignment.

Seeing someone point out something that is "bad" or "wrong" and then voting on it, without drawing the line on why being "bad" or "wrong" in that way is more likely to come from scum instead of town pings me.

[Clownpiece]

People blatantly going "hmm yes I seem to be only townreading the hyperposters this is a problem" and then not fucking doing anything about it is annoying as hell

I would also say that I am not someone who thinks that way.

I have actually been side eyeing basically everyone who has voiced this concern, as I don't actually think that it is a thread wide concern (even if it may be true for an individual).

When I look at the top 5 posters (excluding me), I see Koishi, Kagerou, Yuuka, Sanae, and Tenshi, and I feel like literal all of them are still being met with periodic suspicion and paranoia.

I don't think a single one of these names has made it to being universally town binned, and I personally have only town binned one of them. And, focusing just on my pov, *I* am still paranoid about Koishi and Kagerou, and then Tenshi is my strongest scum read.

And they are not blocking up either. Sanae has been voicing paranoia about koishi, koishi did not like kagerou's dance (or maybe vice versa, I for sure am not looking back), Yuuka and Kagerou has been a near constant will they/wont they push each other, Koishi just said that Tenshi's town stocks are dropping.

And then the single most town read player [Eternity Larva] doesn't even make that list

So while maybe there are individuals whose reads list looks like the player list sorted by post count, I don't think that its actually a Thread Problem right now, and I have actually been suspicious of just how many posts along those lines have been made this game. Yours just being the worst offender.

[Clownpiece]

Wait, tenshi and ichirin are not the same person. So strike the stongest scum read, and replace it with "is a person I keep forgetting is in this game"

[Clownpiece]

This is also the reason why the scumread got softened after I found out it was a Yuukaism (because those parts no longer applied to the read), why are you ignoring that?

My pings on your Yuuka vote did lessen a bit seeing that exchange, but it did not fully dissuade it. (and I mean, your position did not even change enough for you to move your vote)

And I am not actively ignoring anything. I was answering a question.

You are in my 3 man poe, you landed as my 2nd lowest person in that poe, and I was asked why. So I pointed out the things that pinged me.

I don't think that I have a slam dunk case, and I was not trying to make one. Those were just "The things that tipped you below Dai"

[Clownpiece]

That hyperposters are getting the occasional side-eye doesn't actually matter when the only wagons with more than one vote this game have been "bottom half of the activity count + Kagerou"

This is only a problem is zero of the scum are in the bottom half of activity count. Which is not something that I am actually worried about on Day 1 of a mafia game.

[Clownpiece]

People blatantly going "hmm yes I seem to be only townreading the hyperposters this is a problem" and then not fucking doing anything about it is annoying as hell

Clownpiece - I think that this post is very townie, especially in the context of their Marisa vote earlier - it seems like they sincerely care about the 'sorting in the hyperposters' and are annoyed that other people aren't. I like that this mindset has propagated over tens of pages

in this moment, that post does not sway me.

But I am self aware that I sometimes when someone is arguing against me about themselves, my opinion become harder to change.

So, I will come back to this post tomorrow, and see if I can see what you see then.

[Clownpiece]

page 20

[Clownpiece]

-744 is a decent post to make about this specific situation. Calling for accountability is good.
-784 is also fairly town in thought process.
-949 is a believably town post about feelings on the no touching area of the game.
-The line about what Sanae-scum might or might not do in 959 is a good line of a post that is otherwise forgettable.

Did you intend for all of these to be in "Things I liked"?

[Clownpiece]

would be curious to hear the opinion of anyone who still wants to wagon Kaguya right now

VOTE: ichirin

[Clownpiece]

That hyperposters are getting the occasional side-eye doesn't actually matter when the only wagons with more than one vote this game have been "bottom half of the activity count + Kagerou"

This is only a problem is zero of the scum are in the bottom half of activity count. Which is not something that I am actually worried about on Day 1 of a mafia game.

After sleeping on it I'm not a big fan of the goalpost shifting of "The hyperposter townreading isn't happening ok well actually it is but it isn't a problem"

I said that I don't think that the hyper posters are getting town binned in a harmful way to the game state.

You countered that they still are not getting wagoned.

I further said that that is not a problem in my eyes.

If you misunderstood my first point to be that hyperposters were in danger of miselimination, that is a misread of my original post - not a goal post being moved in my second.

[Clownpiece]

At this point I feel like the thing that I am most interested in are the rest of koishi's cases, which means I'm just twiddling my thumbs for now.

[Clownpiece]

It's going to be a while, so probably spend your time doing other game-advancing things?

Here is the thing.

I have largely done the amount of active sorting that I know how to do for day 1.

And my overall impression of the game thread is that the thread direction is slowly shifting towards my desired elim (this requires consulting the stars, not a vote count)

I kind of feel like my desired elim has basically no chance that it is gonna change until said desired elim comes back and makes a lot of content, or someone discovers something that I missed, or I guess someone comes and puts their foot in the mouth (but given the playe so far, that seems unlikely?)

So the thumbs, they be a twiddling.

[Clownpiece]

VOTE: Ichirin

I’m tired of waiting for the catchup

As the stars foretold

[Clownpiece]

I have read Ichirin's Divine Fist "GIANT FUCKING WALL" twice now, and I think that the most town indicative part of it is the fact that she put it in spoiler tags.

However, I am underwhelmed by the actual content.

[Clownpiece]

sorry

[Clownpiece]

I've read that post like 12 times

Fine
Rereading it for like the sixth time

Time travel

[Clownpiece]

i know i just voted Koishi but i do not understand why everyone and their mother took issue with their characterization of Yuuka as "middle-of-the-road"?

what is so horrible about them drawing that conclusion?

I think that peoples issue was that if you read their point by point commentary, it seems like they say a lot more things that point to town, and then people are taking "middle of the pack at best" as a scum read, and people are struggling to reconcile the final conclusion to the supporting evidence.

But I dont think koishi was actually meaning a scum read when they wrote it, so :shrug:

[Clownpiece]

Clownpiece how do you feel about Kagerou finally seeming to drop their scum read on you?

And what is your read on them in general?

Their only new statement about me that I saw was to say that if Ichirin is scum, then I (the person who has been beating the "Ichirin is scum" drum the loudest the longest) am probably town. Which seems like a fairly benign take tbh.

I do not have a strong read on them really. I would not want to eliminate them today, but I am not gonna try and save them or anything.

[Clownpiece]

I'm not sure I see the lying that you see though

this we can work with!

here is kagerou's tenshi vote

here is the post where kagerou says "i'm more interested in seeing people's stances on Tenshi than you" ("you" being me in this case)

i invite you to go through kagerou's iso, starting from the first linked post and ending with the second linked post, and find anything from them that shows any effort to get people's stances on tenshi

if you can't, then there you go, that's the lying! kagerou claimed to be "more interested in seeing people's stances on Tenshi than [me]" but showed precisely no interest in getting those stances in that time frame

I did you one better, and I opened up their iso and searched for "Tenshi" and read every post in order, and was fine with it. I feel like their vote makes sense to me in the context of their reads list that came prior.

The "big crime" you are pointing to seems to be that they did not go out of their way to make the wagon happen, but they were also talking about how they were not trying to lead, so I am not all that surprised that it does not exist.

[Clownpiece]

I do have a sinking feeling about how the thread was so passively coasting along doing its thing, until right after I said that I felt like the current thread direction was towards an Ichirin elim, and tenshi joined me on the wagon, and then there was a very sudden shift in thread tone and activity.

But I feel like I need to go back and read through todays posts to see who was doing what.

[Clownpiece]

To actually get back on productive things: I do not particularly think my reads of Daiyousei or Kagerou are forced, because

I am currently reading back through to track people's interactions with the thread, but this is eww.

They only think that their own read is not forced? and for reasons other then "those are my reads" ?

[Clownpiece]

And speaking of disingenuous I'm of course going to be skeptical about any reasoning you propose that's related to my reasons/intent for voting you considering you got caught red-handed with a disingenuous Tenshi read.

This also feels like, despite them saying how great Dai's case is, Ichirin does not even really understand why Dai was scum reading Kagerou, because this is not the basis of Dai's case at all.

[Clownpiece]

And it's up to me to trust and believe you on that. FMPOV, you got caught red-handed with a bogus reason to push Tenshi

Again, this is not the basis of Dai's case

[Clownpiece]

I do have a sinking feeling about how the thread was so passively coasting along doing its thing, until right after I said that I felt like the current thread direction was towards an Ichirin elim, and tenshi joined me on the wagon, and then there was a very sudden shift in thread tone and activity.

But I feel like I need to go back and read through todays posts to see who was doing what.

Looking back through it, I actually think that this was a bunch of nothing.

Most of the big switch up can be attributed to Ichirin and Kagerou themselves, and not to sudden influxes of other players making waves.

Koishi starts posting, but not in a way to shape the outcome of the 1v1 or to derail the 1v1.

Sanae responds to things, but again, not in a very shapey way, and fairly in line with how they have been posting I think.

Eternity Larva seems to just be along for the Ichirin/Kagerou ride.

The only real people who show up who seem to be doing anything, is Dai (who is very happy that someone, anyone, finally agreed with them) and excited to joining Ichirin's push, and Yuuka who started voting Koishi.

Dai's sudden interest feels justified based on prior posting in a way that does not make me suddenly more suspicious

and I guess Yuuka fits the bill of someone newly pushing in a new, non-Ichirin, direction, but I think that Yuuka is town, and I also don't know that Koishi is the most viable person to derail into even if Yuuka+Ichirin were partnered.

[Clownpiece]

Reading through it all again, my over all impressions of the 2 are

Ichirin: the entire thing felt really fake, and I still want to kill this slot with fire.

Kagerou: I am actually not sure why scum!kagerou would suddenly make the thread about a 1v1 that included themselves when they made 1325

At that point, literally only Ichirin had freshly voted Kagerou, and Ichirin has approximately zero thread control imo.

I further don't know why they would double down on the 1v1, including shooting down other people's ideas of pushing else where [1372] especially not when Yuuka has been pretty paranoid of Kagerou this game, and if I had to guess where Yuuka would go in that 1v1, I would have guessed him to vote Kagerou

[Clownpiece]

To actually get back on productive things: I do not particularly think my reads of Daiyousei or Kagerou are forced, because

I am currently reading back through to track people's interactions with the thread, but this is eww.

They only think that their own read is not forced? and for reasons other then "those are my reads" ?

is this deliberately ignoring the context of 1302, or ?_?

My post is pointing out that in response to 1302, they said "I don't think that my reads are forced because Dai's case is so good vs "I know my reads are not forced, because they are my reads"

1302 calling them forced is irrelevant.

[Clownpiece]

@Dai, in response to 1496

i agree that a tenshi vote in 553 is telegraphed by 385 and 421! however, those posts are not justifications for changing the vote from me to tenshi in 553; if anything, the read list in 385 is justification for keeping it on me, which is why i asked about it in the first place

One thing, I disagree with this whole basis that started off your questioning. I think it is pretty clear why Kagerou stopped voting you and started voting Tenshi.

Spoiler: Kagerou quotes

Tenshi Hinanawi - ok so maybe this is more a null read but like i kinda completely forgot who this was so not the greatest look i think

actually hmmm

one thing i find weird is how Marisa didn't include Tenshi in her vote pool

VOTE: Tenshi

I think voting my 3rd strongest scumread is more interesting than voting you, and i invite anyone else who's on the fence with Tenshi to do the same

I'm more interested in seeing people's stances on Tenshi than you, i feel like the general avoidance around this slot could come from a place of more well inserted scumbuddies uneasy with the idea of drawing the light to their weak like

save a townie, join the Tenshi wagon

I mean, Tenshi is a slot that's been relatively spared of scrutiny since the start right?

Granted, you could make that case for a lot of people, i just think it points to Tenshi cause they both never received that much pressure and don't put themselves that fowards

before you leave give me gun to head a read on Tenshi

Like, it is all pretty consistent when I look at them.

-They voiced the fact that they had forgotten about tenshi, and tenshi was going under the radar, and that that was a bad thing.
-They then saw someone else (marisa) appear to overlook (accidentally or willfully) tenshi's existence, so they vote tenshi to try and draw more attention to tenshi.
-they invite other people to vote tenshi to force more people to talk about tenshi.
-they repeat that they are more interested in what people have to say about tenshi
-they call for tenshi votes
-reiterate that they dont like that tenshi is flying under the radar
-ask someone point blank for a tenshi read

There is a pretty consistent PoV on Tenshi through out this, that paints a pretty clear picture on why they moved their vote from you -> tenshi.

You later build onto this by saying that they were not digging into other people enough for their answer of "I wanted more people to talk about Tenshi" to be real, but that is not catching them in a lie.

Like sure, this could be scum who was just faking interest in Tenshi reads, but it could also just as easily be town who was interested in tenshi reads, but then the thread went other directions and their focus went with it, so they ended up talking about other topics after moving their votes.

I also feel like the original point that we disagreed on, where you felt like moving their vote in the first place was not justified, is a PoV difference that colors out view on this.

But either way, I simply don't see it as a smoking gun scum case the way you do.

[Clownpiece]

I also feel like the original point that we disagreed on, where you felt like moving their vote in the first place was not justified, is a PoV difference that colors out view on this.

To clarify, I feel like the basis of your case is that they did not do enough follow up questioning to "justify" moving their votes.

When I think "huh, no one is talking about tenshi, and I dont like that" is enough justification to move your vote at that stage in the game, even with zero follow up.

[Clownpiece]

I can also vote Ichirn

The stars

[Clownpiece]

Oh, I’m up for ichirin too.

they foretell

[Clownpiece]

Yes you insertsillyinsulthere this is me echoing your words back to you to tell you that somebody agrees with you.

my desired elimination.

[Clownpiece]

clown you're way too good at being aware about the gamestate please stop scaring me

I spent like half the day calling Ichirin scum, and was going no where, to the point that I abandoned the wagon as impossible, and moved on to compromise votes.

So yeah, when I started seeing people circle back to say they would consider that wagon now, I noticed.

[Clownpiece]

Plus, to me, those posts were less about announcing that I know they are coming, and more about mind controlling them into voting Ichirin with me.

[Clownpiece]

I am most interested in Koishi's Aya case, more then either of the current dueling wagons, but am also interested in their take on Kagerou.

But then I can happily end the day with Ichirin's death

[Clownpiece]

starting to think clownpiece just has it out for me in a "doesnt listen to anything i say" way and not a "just dedicated to the wagon" way

I read all the things you had to say, that is why I want to kill you!

[Clownpiece]

right now i am townreading 3/4ths of the wagons up there, the only person on the list I am not townreading is Wolfears.

This reporter also thinks Larva is town and so is of the opinion the Kagerou wagon is all town formed.

So your take is that Ichirin v Kagerou is town!ichirin v scum!kagerou, but zero of kagerou's scum buddies are voting on either wagon?

[Clownpiece]

I kinda want to dismiss that as a possible game state, even if I am wrong on Ichirin being scum, and am surprised to see you just accept such a game state tbh

[Clownpiece]

Clownpiece has just been pushing me with shit like "Yeah that feels fake. Yeah I think that's scummy. Also very convenient timing on that catch up Ichirin!" instead of actual arguments

I made multiple cases for why I think you were scum this game. You either did not read my case against you, or you are willfully ignoring it.

Either way this comes across to me as just generic shade against the wagon.

[Clownpiece]

It was "Why are you voting Tenshi instead of me, who is lower on your list?"

Dai, I understood all of the nuance in your stance that you are stating here, and it was all included in my "I disagree with your foundataion" post.

Your pov has a foundation on the idea that a townie will always vote their largest scum read without great reason to do otherwise. I disagree with that foundation.

To clarify, I feel like the basis of your case is that they did not do enough follow up questioning to "justify" moving their votes [to someone that is higher up their reads list then their current vote]

When I think "huh, no one is talking about tenshi, and I dont like that" is enough justification to move your vote [to someone that is higher up their reads list then their current vote] at that stage in the game, even with zero follow up.

[Clownpiece]

You don't see the problem with not being able to kill half your scumreads cause people are POEing by activity?

If the stance was "I scum read this person, and therefore want to kill them despite being a hyper poster" then more power to you, we would not be having this conversation. People who vorted Koishi (the number 1 poster) and people who voted kagerou (the number 2 poster) because they said they thought they were scum did not get the same response from me that you did.

But the vote that I questioned was not one that was a specific scum read on a hyper poster, it was a desire to vote an "archetype" based on game state.

[Clownpiece]

Your pov has a foundation on the idea that a townie will always vote their largest scum read without great reason to do otherwise.

(It doesn't even matter than the implication of the answer is "Nothing changed, I still see you as more likely to be Mafia.")

You say that, but then building castles on that same sand foundation.

To be less glib, I accept that there are possible reasons why one would not be voting their greatest Mafia read. The reason Kagerou gave is one of them! It just so happens that, in this case, the reason Kagerou gave is observably bunk. If Kagerou had given the same exact reason,

but had also put in effort prior to stating it that demonstrated it was true

, we would not be having this conversation.

I'm just gonna leave this here:

Like sure, this could be scum who was just faking interest in Tenshi reads, but it could also just as easily be town who was interested in tenshi reads, but then the thread went other directions and their focus went with it, so they ended up talking about other topics after moving their votes.

But either way, I simply don't see it as a smoking gun scum case the way you do.

I don't think that further back and forth is going to help us.

The issue is NOT that I don't understand your argument, the issue is that I don't agree with it. So further explanations from you are not going to help me at least.

[Clownpiece]

I do think that our back and forth made me feel better about your alignment, so it was not all for naught!

[Clownpiece]

I think it's mostly cause it's in wall format instead of hyperposted

No. I am an odd one out on site, and generally like wall posts.

My issue wes that it was presented as a wall post written by someone who has feelings about wall posts[titling it "GIANT FUCKING WALL" and dropping it in spoiler tags], but then it had several comments that looked like filler content that is just padding it out.

I think this is a fallacy of some sort.
.....
I think this is a fallacy of some sort. In general I think regularly flushing your brain of the idea that scum only play as conniving tricksters or whatever is good for you because scum playstyles can vary comically and they will especially love it if you hand them a townread for it. Rest of the readlist is like, fine, ig.

I think that these two were the worst offenders. Where they comment to call a read basis a fallacy, without commenting on any thoughts on the original poster's alignment for using the fallacy or to comment on the alignment of the people being talked about.

Their inclusion felt like they were going through looking for things that they could easily respond to, to pad out the post with More Content.

And not just those two posts, but a general lack of Real Sorting imo. Like, the strongest scum read that they walk away with ended up just being "Someone Else's Case is So Good" with little of their own individual takes on who is scum this game.

[Clownpiece]

Then I suppose I should directly question this:

it could also just as easily be town who was interested in tenshi reads, but then the thread went other directions and their focus went with it, so they ended up talking about other topics after moving their votes

Given how

incredibly

easy it would be for a townie that genuinely wanted to see Tenshi reactions to try to obtain them (which was the point of the bulleted list in 1496, which I imagine you already figured but I'm explicitly stating it anyway), I cannot fathom the idea that the situation was one where "it could just as easily have been town who didn't". Like, this is p-value-

way

-less-than-0.05 stuff as far as I'm concerned.

I felt like there was an assumption from Kagerou that [Voting Tenshi] on its own would have generated some kind of content from/about Tenshi.

And then, when that did not materialize, they then *did* start asking people about tenshi. But that came later.

At least, that is in line with their response when you asked them that

Spoiler:

- well, i maybe didn't get as much as i hoped directly at the, but i also feel like i've managed to prevent tenshi from just being able to fly under the radar undetected, and it's just that people don't really care about pushing there

actually hmmm

one thing i find weird is how Marisa didn't include Tenshi in her vote pool

VOTE: Tenshi

yeah ik it's dumb counting the vote as that by itself, but it's true

I've lost the plot completely here too.

Just gonna step away and come back with fresh brain.

before you leave give me gun to head a read on Tenshi

And to be clear Dai, I am sitting here and saying that this make Kagerou townie, just that I can see it easily coming from town, and therefore your case that it makes her scum is non-persuasive to me.

[Clownpiece]

Spoiler: Page 60

To actually get back on productive things: I do not particularly think my reads of Daiyousei or Kagerou are forced, because

I am currently reading back through to track people's interactions with the thread, but this is eww.

They only think that their own read is not forced? and for reasons other then "those are my reads" ?

yeah

Spoiler: Page 61

To actually get back on productive things: I do not particularly think my reads of Daiyousei or Kagerou are forced, because

I am currently reading back through to track people's interactions with the thread, but this is eww.

They only think that their own read is not forced? and for reasons other then "those are my reads" ?

is this deliberately ignoring the context of 1302, or ?_?

My post is pointing out that in response to 1302, they said "I don't think that my reads are forced because Dai's case is so good vs "I know my reads are not forced, because they are my reads"

1302 calling them forced is irrelevant.

if that is your reading, then i would imagine ichirin thought "I know my reads are not forced, because they are my reads" obvious to the point of not being worth saying and decided to have a little fun with hir post, as this would fit the sense of humor sie has shown previously in this game

obviously i can't say this for sure because i am not a mind reader, but that was my take on that exchange, and 1483 makes me more confident that my take is accurate

It's less about that and more about how it was worded, like "They're not forced, you can see it with x/y/z" vs "They're not forced because x/y/z" where the first implies they're not forced because it's sie's read and it's also visible from an outside perspective whereas the second implies that the foundation of the read not being forced is those externally visible features instead of just from it being sie's read

I have spent too long looking for fan art of clownpiece and Kaguya together to call you my new best friend with, but apparently that simply does not exist. So this will have to do:

[Clownpiece]

If this is not a post restriction please clarify, I'll assume it's a post restriction if you ignore this

That is almost certainly saying "I know your main, so my read is meta based, but I cannot say that out loud without breaking the rules."

[Clownpiece]

I have thoughts about eternity and kagerou's conversation, but it seems prudent to let kagerou answer questions before voicing them.

[Clownpiece]

Kagerou had voiced that their read on Ichirin was open to change prior to the 1v1.

Clown raises some interesting points in a vaccum, i guess i should probably read Ichirin's ISO

Like I will give you that there was a decided lack of follow up, but [starting to agree with some of the things clown says] + [seeing new content they dont like] + [said new content is directed at them] is believable pivot point to me.

Especially when their first response to Ichirin's "giant fucking wall" was tempered (1301) until Ichirin doubled down with 1318 (which I also found scummy).

[Clownpiece]

Kagerou's tunnel is incredibly disingenuous here and i'm confused as to how others are not seeing it

The thing that is making me not feel like it is disingenuous is that almost every thing that Kagerou was pointing out was like exactly my reaction to Ichirin's posts.

Spoiler:

I kinda wanna vote Ichirin for this catchup but that would mean admitting clownpiece is probably town

(espe : i think the way he reads me / daiyousei is extremely forced)

1318 is made, and is what pushes Kagerou to make this

VOTE: Ichirin

i'm cool with 1v1ing

i don't have a case prepared but i'll just say that the way you voted me is extremely indicative that you are extremely excited to be voting me / you are projecting this excitement to us, something that town would have no reason for in this gamestate

especially disingenuous considering me being wagoned is nothing new, i'm not OMGUSing random people voting me

at best she called me out for inefficiency, which yeah i'll admit i very much was

Again, you'll have to forgive me if I don't particularly trust you on this one. Daiyousei has been putting in the effort, you really haven't.

What do you mean you don't trust me, like this is not a question of trust this is a question of what was our conversation about

Well, I feel like Ichirin would definetly be more honest about it if sie was actually town and excited about flipping scum!Kagerou

secondly, this scumread being on me at this exact moment just feel extremely convinient? Right as hir wagon threatens to get back on track

Yeah i think we get it now that's the third time you're saying this, and look, not saying this is impossible for this to come from town!you, just that this is exactly what scum!you needs to do, and your tone certainely isn't making me feel any different

Like, she was in the moment saying the exact things that I was thinking, so much so that I did not even really feel like I was needed to point the things out.

So to me, it felt like we were reading Ichirin's posts with the same set of eye -- so it makes it a little harder to swallow that it was an unfounded position for Kagerou to have.

And to the contrary, I found most of Ichirin's posts during their 1v1 to come across as forced/disingenuous.

[Clownpiece]

I have thoughts about eternity and kagerou's conversation, but it seems prudent to let kagerou answer questions before voicing them.

i’m interested in this

1742 and 1748 were this

[Clownpiece]

Would you feel comfortable 1v1ing someone on day one off of someone else’s read?

I do not think that that is an accurate portrayal of what happened. It did not jump from "Clown is making good points" to "and now I am willing to 1v1 the slot"

My points were causing Kagerou to be open to reconsidering the slot.


Kagerou's reaction to Ichirin's catch up was to be open to voting the slot -- 1301.


Kagerou's reaction to 1318 was to be willing to 1v1 the slot -- 1325.

And as an outsider looking at Ichirin's push, it felt disingenuous. Add in a splash of OMGUS because the push is directed at Kagerou, and I buy the escalation.

[Clownpiece]

Add in a splash of OMGUS because the push is directed at Kagerou, and I buy the escalation.

just so i clearly understand where you're coming from, who is omgusing who in this situation?

You phrasing it at "who is omgusing who" makes me worried that you are gonna misinterpret the intent behind the post, but that is a reference to Kagerou's read on Ichirin.

But I did not say that to discredit the read, but to understand the strength of it.

If I see what looks like a disingenuous push on a slot I don't knows alignment, I scum read it. If I see what looks like a disingenuous push on a slot I know to be town (which includes, but is not always limited to me) I scum read it stronger.

I agree with Kagerou that Ichirin's push onto Kagerou looks disingenuous, and (because it is directed at Kagerou themselves) I can buy the strength of the reaction.

[Clownpiece]

i am glad i asked because my initial reading of that part of the post was "ichirin omgus'ed kagerou

I don't think that there is any case for the omgus in that direction lol

[Clownpiece]

I mean, I have been pretty explicit on the reasons that I think that you are scum.

Spoiler:

(note, I edited the post that used she/her pronouns to use the correct pronouns, all other posts are unedited quotes)

I'm saying that if Ichirin was scum she came out and chose violence.

I have seen this voiced a couple times (it may have been Aya both times, but I *think* it was actually someone else the first time, but I have not looked back).

But like... my interpretation of Ichirin's response was the exact opposite. Hir response did feel like it was designed to appease hir voters, but it just back fired.

Sie immediately went and found a New and Novel thing to be suspicious of, and double and tripled down on it (to a silly degree imo), when the main accusation was that there was no sign of solving from hir, and it felt like sie was avoiding questioning hir voters - like hir goal was just to change our minds.

It was not until Yuuka kept being so aggressive that sie started to snap back at one of hir voters.

Plus, since then, it feels like they suddenly had a topic to pursue with all their might when they got pressure, but then they just... stopped pursuing anything as soon as the thread focus moved away from them.

Why don’t you like that series of posts, Clownpiece?

The strength in which they threw themselves into questioning Eternity Larva felt performative.

It came immediately after they were being accused of not having content, and then they suddenly have discovered The Thing That Is So Important To Question That They Must Get The Answer Before They Die.

It felt reactionary to the lack of sorting accusations.

To actually get back on productive things: I do not particularly think my reads of Daiyousei or Kagerou are forced, because

I am currently reading back through to track people's interactions with the thread, but this is eww.

They only think that their own read is not forced? and for reasons other then "those are my reads" ?

And speaking of disingenuous I'm of course going to be skeptical about any reasoning you propose that's related to my reasons/intent for voting you considering you got caught red-handed with a disingenuous Tenshi read.

This also feels like, despite them saying how great Dai's case is, Ichirin does not even really understand why Dai was scum reading Kagerou, because this is not the basis of Dai's case at all.

Reading through it all again, my over all impressions of the 2 are

Ichirin: the entire thing felt really fake, and I still want to kill this slot with fire.

[Clownpiece]

I suspect you've abandoned the pretense of actually needing a reason to constantly try and get me killed anyhow

This at least is vaguely true, in that I do not see the reason to restate the reasons every time I encourage people to vote you, when I feel like I spelled it out prior.

[Clownpiece]

in your past and present reasons

Those are not past reasons lol.

They are still a large part of why I am voting you *right now*

You were my best guess at scum, and I was advocating for your elim based on that case -> You made a catch up post that I was unimpressed with -> Your push against Kagerou looked disingenuous in the same performative way I felt about your Eternity Larva questioning before -> I am continuing to call for your elim.

I dont need a new case every time I tell people to vote you lol

[Clownpiece]

I suspect you've abandoned the pretense of actually needing a reason to constantly try and get me killed anyhow

This at least is vaguely true, in that I do not see the reason to restate the reasons every time I encourage people to vote you, when I feel like I spelled it out prior.

Once again: Disproportionate fervor. You sunk your talons into the first bit of exposed flesh you could find and just decided not to let go even to try and find a better spot to stab me in.

This is genuinely such a silly take

[Clownpiece]

You're welcome

The fact that this image's name is friendship is killing me.

Also, thank you gracious mod.

[Clownpiece]

i really think Ichirin is just a naturally OMGUSy player and that is rubbing some people the wrong way

or they are intentionally painting that as scummy to push hir

i expect Clownpiece fits into the first category and Kagerou the latte

OMGUS has approximately zero impact on the way that I am reading them, because it did not come until long after my read developed.

When they got voted early on, they called every single person voting them townish.

When they did their big catchup, they scum read's last stanch on them was *maybe I should look at them again* and they still called me town.

The first time they voiced any suspicion on me was 1,321 posts after I first voted them.

[Clownpiece]

I don't think that there is a chance that my vote is moving for the rest of the day phase.

Ichirin is scummy. My belief that they flip scum is stronger by approximately a power of 10 then any other slot in the game.

Ichirin has claimed, and their role as claimed has scum equity, and I think actually negative utility even if real and town.

I do not want to pursue another wagon, run them up, and get another claim out there, just to decided that the next person's role is too good to elim, and then we all collectively pivot back to Ichirin last minute.

[Clownpiece]

My sister in the bodhisattva of mercy, there is no mechanical scum equity.

Turns out, I don't find "Nuh uh" to be a very compelling argument.

[Clownpiece]

The scum equity of that role is just insane imo?

Ichirin, is there a reason why me saying your role has scum equity makes me a "rat"

But Tenshi saying that your role has "insane" scum equity gets no comment?

[Clownpiece]

if your read is influenced by that

Its not.