Mini 1355 - SPACE MAFIA - GAME OVER

[CooLDoG]

>run space_confirm.exe

I highly doubt a spac ship would run off of a microsoft system.

Sudo apt-get install Space-mafia

(/confirm)

[CooLDoG]

VOTE: Tangoin
For not confirming yet.

[CooLDoG]

BB got my vote reversed!

Side note, it is debatable if July 4th is actually the day that America seperated from the UK.

[CooLDoG]

Tangion, why no vote?

[CooLDoG]

Your join date is 2009, I know that you know what the RVS is. Why no RVS participation?

[CooLDoG]

Why the change?

[CooLDoG]

Christ, I check early today, we're in RVS. I check a few hours later, and Tangion's at L-2?

Thar's scums in them thar hillwagons!

I partially agree. It does seem odd that the wagon built up super quick like it has, but on the other hand I have seen town build pretty quick wagons too.

But just hold up one second. You say that there are scum on this l-2 wagon, but then you go and vote someone who isn't on the wagon?

I see you down there reading, wierdalexv. Hi! Oh, you left after a few minutes without making a post? Even after your last post was a request for RVS to end and now it's over?

VOTE: wierdalexv

strange. Wouldn't it be better to pick someone on the wagon to vote for?

[CooLDoG]

Bitmap's sheep is noted for later reference.

[CooLDoG]

I partially agree.

It does seem odd that the wagon built up super quick like it has,

but on the other hand I have seen town build pretty quick wagons too.

Also, this is another example of the "You too" fallacy. I'm not willing to go into it right now, partly because the whole argument that I am making is quite trivial at this point.. Plus, I'm still not sure that I'm out of RVS yet. I'm still probing for reactions and the like. Hell, two guys haven't even posted yet.

[CooLDoG]

What's the "you too" fallacy? I've never heard of it.

It is the most rampant fallacy on MS. Enjoy wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque
For those who don't like hyper links:
A makes criticism P.
A is also guilty of P.
Therefore, P is dismissed.
The above is a fallacy. If you have problems with it, then use the hyper link

I'm gonna be somewhat LA for the next few days. Baseball tournament, and I'm gonna be REALLY tired when I do have time to post.

I'll try to get a post containing content up tomorrow morning (before I go to the tournament) though.

When I played baseball they stuck me in the outfield to jsut stand there. You have no excuse.

VOTE: bitmap

For not only starting the wagon on me but for also being the first to bail as soon as it was put under suspicion

I don't useually try to take credit for doing things, but wasn't I the one who started your wagon?

But I understand if this is your first time getting a scum role and you wish to feel empowered. Kudos to you for not being a VT this game.

A vote. That is what this post is lacking. Also reeks of a soft omgus. At this stage his vote is as good as any. Why the need to go supper defensive.

@AngryPidgeon:

Reasons why you smell fishy:

1. Forcing a bandwagon.
2. Ad-hominem attacks.
3. Assuming and mis-reading my context.
4. Appeal to Majority
5. I honestly don't know what you are saying half the time.

VOTE: AngryPidgeon

No, I can't vote for you now. Either you really are really bad at playing scum or just heavy bandwagoning.

FOS: AngryPidgeon

I smell a soft bus here. Why the hell aren't you voting for this guy. You have more "evidence" on this guy than on anybody else. Vote his ass if you feel that strongly. Why are you refraining.

You know what this needs, some actual roleplay.

No.

I literally have no idea what to make of the Pidgion/bitmap interaction. I really don't know. I should re-read it very carefully when I have more time.

[CooLDoG]

About angry... Angry is grasping at straws in my opinion. He seems like he is try to find a scum read too hard. It is only page 4, I can promise you that at page 4 there are probably no actually scum slips or scum tells that are actually legitimate. I like that you are trying to generate content, but I highly doubt that generating content is your actual motive here. I have a feeling that you are trying to find a "scum" and then do something with that. Either wagon it to a lynch, or wagon it to look townie. I don't think that this style of "MUST FIND SCUM READS, ALL OF YOU ARE SCUM BECAUSE OF ONE WORD IN YOUR POST" is townie. However, it is page 4, and you are new. I'm not sure if this is simply a carry over from wherever you played or not... but something seems off with this jump on every little thing attitude.

Keep in mind that townies are just as likely to make mistakes in their posting as scum.

@hiraki, you got me, it isn't a sheep. I meant to say parrot. For all practical purposes the imply the same motivation: piggybacking on other people's content.

I'm going to read over those two walls now (again).

ninja edit: No I would assume that it is consistent with your reads. It really isn't a scum tell to be wrong four pages in
What bugs me about you is the fact that you, as a supposed townie, only have one way of impacting the game. That is your vote. And you aren't putting that vote where you are telling us your strongest scum read is. That doesn't help you win the game as a townie. Most of my "scum reads" go off of motivation for fulfilling your win condition. Not voting for your top scum read is inconsistent with your win condition, and thus doesn't appear to be town motivated.

ninja edit 2: interesting vote there, why not earlier? That is the question now.

[CooLDoG]

first thing about 78 is that pidg does not really understand what bitmap is trying to say. the famed bit map scum slip post:

Ummm... lolwut? Did you even read my post?

I was trying to be sincere in my post and not be a jerk by saying

"I'm sorry if I'm making bad speculations or being rude but it just seems as a result of that, the game got off the wrong foot."

The bolded is the controversial bit(haha, no pun intended). To me this has nothing to do with actually being sincere or not. All that bitmap was trying to say (again my opinion here) was that (looks for gender tag) he was trying not to be rude or coarse with whoever he might be talking to. He simply wanted to be civil and cordial. In my opinion the word sincere is not actually what bitmap meant, but one would all ways argue that this was a slip and betrayed his real motives. I, however, tend to disagree with that. This is simply bitmap trying to get along.

In the next second of the pidg wall, pidg is correct in saying that it is scummy to not vote for who you think is scum. Especially this early.

Pidg is is not sure what to make of bit's defense, which is basically "there might be a mislynch so I'm going to unvote to prevent that". I will say that this is null. Especially with a join date of about 8 days ago (alt detections aside).

Sometimes people have legitimate concerns

and I wouldn't ever attack someone even if they were scum on a legitimate concern on a game. I agree, I should of sent him a PM. My apologies on that part to you guys and BBmolla.

WTF? Earlier in this post you implied that you had done no wrong: "How is that telling BBMolla how to run a game? I was just giving my input or suggestion." and now you are apologizing for it and admitting to doing some wrong IN THE SAME POST. This tells me that you don't really know what you think about your actions and you are just trying to appease me. You contradicted yourself. This is scummy.

You kind of sound apologetic at the end of 66 but then posts 69 and 70 have no substance whatsoever and just serve to draw attention off of your scumslip and onto nothing in particular. I mean really this is an absolute "LOOK OVER HERE, IGNORE MY SCUMMY EARLIER POSTS" Red Herring.

I would submit that this really isn't scummy. Again, going back to motivation, why would scum Bitmap want to do this? Restarting the game would re-randomize the PMs so this is really irrelevant to alignment. However, pigd is trying to make the point that Bit is just trying to shake him off of his tale. I disagree. Why would you care about what the most scummy person thinks of you? Why does that matter? Maybe I'm thinking of what I would be thinking in her shoes, but I still don't see why he would care to appease pidg of all people.

@AngryPidgeon:

Reasons why you smell fishy:

1. Forcing a bandwagon.
2. Ad-hominem attacks.
3. Assuming and mis-reading my context.
4. Appeal to Majority
5. I honestly don't know what you are saying half the time.

VOTE: AngryPidgeon

No, I can't vote for you now. Either you really are really bad at playing scum or just heavy bandwagoning.

FOS: AngryPidgeon

1. Not actually a scumtell.
2. I just reviewed my posts and I NEVER Ad Hom'd this game. I want quoted proof of me doing it before this post.
3. This is mafia. Mis-reading intentions happens and is not a scum tell. It is a logical fault. I do not believe that I misread the intent of that post however.
4. LOL. 100% wrong. Appeal to majority fallacy is saying that statement A must be true because the majority believe it. I did not do that. I called for votes on you. I did not quote multiple people's cases against you and say that they must be right.
5. Also, not a scum tell.

And once again you call me scum and refuse to vote for me! (at least I think a strike through the vote means it doesn't count?) Expressing intent to vote without voting is scummy and you have now done it twice.

Also, in post 72 you once again express an intent to vote for me but don't do it. That makes 3 times.

1, ehh maybe a scum tell if it was obvious that that person was an easy lynch or if the person was a PR or very townie. Forcing a Bandwagon is very conditional, and in RVS it is actually helpful. I agree with pidg, not a scum tell.
2, bad, yes, scummy no. Even if pidg did ad hom it simply means that his case on you isn't good, not that he is scummy. Town ad hom all the time.
3, possibly a scum tell if he did this just in order to et you lynched. You have given no real evidence as to where or how he did this ( I might not be reading your posts correctly, so if you did do this, feel free to call me out)
4, pidg is correct again. I really fail to see how this is scummy and where he actually did this.
5, obviously this is just an ad hom attack on pidg's grammatical styling.

I agree with the thrust of pidg's main attack on the lack of vote. I don't agree with the other stuff he says because most of it is truly irreverent.

Lastly, hiraki is correct that you are making a big deal about this "scum slip" when in reality it is basically nothing. That comment isn't scummy in the slightest. Expressing why you think it is a valid scum slip is fine, but calling him scummy simply because he disagrees with you is not valid, ever. Disagreement is null.

I'll get to bit's response later.

@bit, no idea as of yet.

[CooLDoG]

Why the fuck are you, bitmap, talking about hammering? Anybody who fucking hammers anybody on page 4 is either a certified VI or a pathetic scum player.

Also, my question was more along the lines of "what changed that made you vote?" Because from where I'm standing that seems like nothing. Anyway, back to the wall response.

[CooLDoG]

/headdesk

I guess I'll start with Bitmap.

I already said why post 57 is scummy in my post 65.

Ummm... lolwut? Did you even read my post? I was trying to be sincere in my post and not be a jerk by saying "I'm sorry if I'm making bad speculations or being rude but it just seems as a result of that, the game got off the wrong foot."

This is a scumslip. If you are TRYING to be sincere then by definition you are not being sincere.

Being sincere means speaking from the heart and not carefully crafting what you are saying.

If you are trying to be sincere then you are actively thinking about what you are saying sounds like to the recipient in hopes that it will sound sincere. In short, you are trying to SOUND sincere. This is what scum do. This is a scumslip.

*robotic voice*
CANT COMPUTE WORDS TO HEART BEEP! BOOP! BEEP!

This is why the role playing needs to stop. I don't understand what you are saying here.

How is that telling BBMolla how to run a game? I was just giving my input or suggestion. I wasn't like "BBMolla, you aren't running the game correctly. You suck." I was legitimately worried that this game was compromised since the 3 people who happened to be banned were in this game.

See post 65. This is scummy because we had no reason to believe that this game was compromised. If the game were compromised, BBMolla would have taken care of it

somehow

. Your question is a subtle way of implying you do not know who the scum are ("Well MAYBE Hiab is scum because Malee suggested it,m but I really don't know for sure"). If you were town and genuinely had no idea who scum were and were concerned about the state of the game then you would not have dropped Hiab's name or called it out publicly. There simply is no motivation for pointing out a possible leak as a person with no information in a game that BBMolla implied was still running. The ONLY possible motivation for your post is to appear town subtly.

Okay, I'm going to try my AngryPidgeon voice when I say this.

*AngryPidgeon voice*
So you don't think he could handle the situation?

VOTES PLEASE.

What BB can and can't handle is irrelevant sense he isn't a lynchable player.

But I understand if this is your first time getting a scum role and you wish to feel empowered. Kudos to you for not being a VT this game.

So you are calling me scum but not voting for me. This is scummy.

No, I just wasn't sure if you were just really bad at this game and/or just really bad at playing townie.

fair, sorta. A good way to tell if he is just bad at the game is to get a good pressure wagon going.

Sometimes people have legitimate concerns

and I wouldn't ever attack someone even if they were scum on a legitimate concern on a game. I agree, I should of sent him a PM. My apologies on that part to you guys and BBmolla.

WTF? Earlier in this post you implied that you had done no wrong: "How is that telling BBMolla how to run a game? I was just giving my input or suggestion." and now you are apologizing for it and admitting to doing some wrong IN THE SAME POST. This tells me that you don't really know what you think about your actions and you are just trying to appease me. You contradicted yourself. This is scummy.

You kind of sound apologetic at the end of 66 but then posts 69 and 70 have no substance whatsoever and just serve to draw attention off of your scumslip and onto nothing in particular. I mean really this is an absolute "LOOK OVER HERE, IGNORE MY SCUMMY EARLIER POSTS" Red Herring.

First of all.... wat? Secondly, I was continuing my statement that if I made someone butthurt, I'm sorry.

*ahem*
I'm sorry, AngryPidgeon.

And 69 and 70 was just to make fun of your silly accusations. Don't take it personally.

So bitmap's defense is that he was just trying to make the game more civil and the like. Fair, I guess. It depends on your play style. Generally I am a very very strong opponent to using meta, but this is one of the few cases where it could help. Does Bitmap like a more pleasant game? I don't really know. Does he personally try to make in game talk more civil? I don't know.

@AngryPidgeon:

Reasons why you smell fishy:

1. Forcing a bandwagon.
2. Ad-hominem attacks.
3. Assuming and mis-reading my context.
4. Appeal to Majority
5. I honestly don't know what you are saying half the time.

VOTE: AngryPidgeon

No, I can't vote for you now. Either you really are really bad at playing scum or just heavy bandwagoning.

FOS: AngryPidgeon

1. Not actually a scumtell.
2. I just reviewed my posts and I NEVER Ad Hom'd this game. I want quoted proof of me doing it before this post.
3. This is mafia. Mis-reading intentions happens and is not a scum tell. It is a logical fault. I do not believe that I misread the intent of that post however.
4. LOL. 100% wrong. Appeal to majority fallacy is saying that statement A must be true because the majority believe it. I did not do that. I called for votes on you. I did not quote multiple people's cases against you and say that they must be right.
5. Also, not a scum tell.

And once again you call me scum and refuse to vote for me! (at least I think a strike through the vote means it doesn't count?) Expressing intent to vote without voting is scummy and you have now done it twice.

Also, in post 72 you once again express an intent to vote for me but don't do it. That makes 3 times.

1. "HEY GUYS VOTE VOTE VOTE VOTE GODDAMNIT FOR BITMAP! HE'S SCUM! HE'S SCUM! HE'S SCUM! HE'S SCUM! HE'S SCUM! HE'S SCUM! HE'S SCUM!"
2. Remember when you said that I wasn't sincere. There you go.
3. No, it just means you should think before you act.
4. No, you hopped on the bandwagon, and said "HEY LOOK! WE SHOULD VOTE FOR BITMAP SINCE THERE'S THIS NEAT BANDWAGON!"
5. Also, I lol'ed.

I FOS you because I want to believe that this is some clever scum plot somehow. Apparently, I was wrong.

1, that's a town tell. From what I know, misguided as he might be, he is honestly trying to lynch is top scumspect. Advocating strongly for your top lynch is townie in my mind.
2, interesting admission. Are you saying that you are insincere in your defense of this point?
3, I assume you are letting this point drop and are basically saying, "hay, get better at the game!"
4, quotes needed. Evidence man, I need that damn evidence.
5, not a valid defense/refutation.

Tl;dr: both Hiraki and bitmap are scum together. Bitmap made a scumslip and is now floundering around to try and cover it up. Hirachi, realizing that Bitmap is about to get herself lynched, steps in and Ad Hom's me to get attention off of Bitmap. This is literally the easiest game of Mafia ever.

Now please vote Bitmap and when she flips scum vote for Hirachi Day 2.

P-edit: More BS to cover the scum slip.

This is hilarious. My sides hurt from laughing so much. I don't know if I should lynch you for being scum or not so you can say more stupid stuff.

the problem I think pidg is having is that you don't explain yourself well. Meaning, you don't support your statements with facts. This needs to happen if you are going to be an effective part of this town. Again, motivation, not explaining something is not necessarily scummy, it just isn't optimal play.

Shos could be hopping on the easy lynch wagon... time will tell on that one.

@bitmap #90, if you can't decide if it is a scum tell or not, it isn't. When put near a rope both town and scum have it in their best interest to stay live, however they do that is up to them. From what you describe, it isn't a scum tell to me.

@bit's 91, people don't roleplay because it is confusing as hell.

I don't care about teams.

You couldn't explain a team now anyway considering that shos has two posts.

Weird has done nothing while calling for action.

He's standing by hardcore.

Correct. I agree. This early calling teams is ridiculous. I need more from both those players to decide if they are scum.

In regards to bit's 98, so, bit, staying alive is a pretty high priority, right?
and active lurking this early. Ha, really?

[CooLDoG]

I do that sometimes.

[CooLDoG]

Sorry, it wasn't "unvote" it was " not vote", same difference.

[CooLDoG]

@CooLDoG:

On your second statement on #102, you said "A good way to tell if he is just bad at the game is to get a good pressure wagon going". How do you presume we do this?

How else but to vote the shit out of him? Ask yourself, why do we have an R

V

S? To get reactions, mostly due to a wagon forming.

On your third statement, I know BBmolla wouldn't take offense to what I've said so far but AngryPidgeon insists that BBmolla was in fact "butthurt". I like all types of gameplay and I always tell myself to change up my playstyle in every game to experiment and see which one works best. I'm always active because whether you are town or scum, it's better to be active than lurk.

Who cares what BB thinks of any of this? What BB feels is irrelevant (sorry man, but you know what I'm saying ). Let's stop wasting site bandwidth on irrelevancies and start talking about real stuff. And, if I wasn't clear before, asking about the condition of the game is not an alignment tell period. I simply don't buy it especially when it was asking about a possible reset.

On your fourth statement,

1. Understandable.
2.

I was

trying

to be sincere

So you weren't actually sincere?

VOTES PLEASE.

Yeah, I should of added this quote. I don't appreciate how he was attacking my sincerity since it wasn't any of his business to do so.

3. Pretty much.
4. I interpreted AfM wrong. What is it called when you're yelling "VOTE FOR BITMAP!" with logical faults and crap in caps and using ad-hominem attacks?
5. His posts are half-junk and half-evidence. It doesn't mix well and makes it hard to take his arguments seriously.

On your fifth statement, I understand I should quote more but I found most of Pidgeon's attacks hard to understand. I'll add more quotes from now on.

On your sixth statement, staying alive is only important if that person contains a PR or is scum. As a VT, best bet is to bait scum into giving obvious hard-evidence scumtells.

2, it could very well be his business to do so. If he thinks your posts are contrived then that is a major scum tell. Also, do you really mean sincere as the actual definition of the word, or do you mean it in some other way? Better yet, give me your definition of sincere.
4, its called pushing a lynch wagon last time I heard.
5, all I can say is deal with it. Hard to understand isn't scummy. Think about it. It might actually hurt scum...

6, no no no, you are misunderstanding. Being hyper-defenseive this early on as a VT doesn't help the town that much, considering that the site meta is against you in this regard. Let me put it this way, everybody wants to stay alive, however, scum only motivation is to stay alive, while the town is more geared to catch scum. PRs have a stronger motivation to stay alive than normal VTs due to the extra powers they can use at night. Put simply, unless you are at l-1 you should only care about scum hunting. And even at l-1 finding scum should still be top priority as town.
Garrr, I'm not that good of a writer, ask Vi or go on the wiki or something

113 No more talk of fear. Talk of bullshit intimidation needs to stop now. Putting words in Bit's mouth (being afraid of hiraki) is counter productive. Again, disagreement is not scummy.

Keep things into perspective, one vote isn't much, say what you want to say and let the town know what info you have. If the person you attack votes for you, who cares!? it is only one vote.

I'm noting a trend of pidg of being quite reactionary. Don't necessarily like it, but it may be his style of scum hunting.

116 being aggressive and borderline reactionary is one thing, bullshit conspiracy theories on page five is another pidg. Also, please remember that if you make a case it is not for us to prove you wrong, but for you to prove yourself right. In action means that your case is a flop with hiraki, instead of pounding on him for it you should be telling us why Bit is the correct lynch. But again, maybe this is your play style... I don't know. But, I want to see where this develops,

unvote, vote: AngryPidgeon

Stop dancing around.

Bitmap isn't at L-1?
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Bitmap

L-1

You better have some good reasons for bitmap to be scum. Very very good reasons.

^, yes you clearly expressed that you felt I was wrong. I am not saying you didn't. I am saying that you did not 'inform' me that I was wrong (like Arugula in 99 for reference) but rather called me an idiot and implied I was wrong by telling me to back down and calling me an idiot. The difference between you and Arugula's post is your tone of voice. He was 'informing' me that I was wrong. You 'implied' that I was wrong whilst attempting to intimidate me into backing off. It shows a clear difference of motives behind the posts even if you both did indicate that my scumread was wrong.

What the fuck is this? No, no, no. who gives a shit if he wrote a formal disclosure saying that he doesn't agree with you. What the heck? I really don't understand the difference between:
"shut the fuck up, your case is bullshit."
and
"I would like to inform you that your case is bullshit, so shut the fuck up"
Pulling at straws man, trying for that lynch. Scum motivated. Also, vote on bitmap an l-1 crap wagon. Hurray, I got my first scum suspect. Enjoy.

[quote="In post 124, inte"
Look at Arugula's Post 99 and tell my that isn't really scummy[/quote]
I agree, vague reasons and a way to hop/slip on the wagon. Still like pidg better though.

@cooldog is there any reason that you have not changed your vote yet it seeing as how you no longer seem suspicious of me or are you still and if so why

I did now, but I really wasn't sure where I would put my vote, so I just left it there. I have you in the null pile right now if you must know.

[CooLDoG]

plus post 99 is

really

bad. he was basically "testing the waters" to see if he would catch heat for voting for a townie

basically, you are trying to get a townie lynched.

[CooLDoG]

I have to mins to make dis post so yeah....

Town motivations that hiraki had for this:
1. Call me scummy.
2. Attempt to dissuade me from posting in the future.

1, finding and lynching scum. Pushing for a lync that he thinks is scum is the essence of town play.
2, keep scum from screwing with the town and playing mind games, a very townie thing to do from his perspective.

Also, you said that Bitmap was afraid to take a stand against hiraki, bitmap never said that look it up. I can quote it to you tomorrow if you really want it.

sorry that this was scattered, three mins man...

[CooLDoG]

I'm afraid I don't really understand where you're getting the ones and twos from.

Read

his

post.

But he didn't push a lynch on me! Where are you getting that from?? The exact opposite happened. He implied I was scummy and then did not push a wagon on me or anything of the sort. If he actually made a case for me at all then your point would be valid.

I know bitmap never said "I am afraid to take a stance on Hiraki"!

I

said that he is afraid to take stance on Hiraki. I don't see how on earth these two players are ignoring each other so successfully when the three of us have been caught in a triangle for 3 or so pages now.

Yeah, because he didn't want to put up with your bullshit. I think that's what he said. I don't have the burden to defend huraki, if you think he is scummy, fine. But really, you aren't convincing me.

after reading the last few pages(sorry for having my lengthy catch-up post later) I think I'll stand by my Bitmap vote from last post. to your question a few pages ago - no lol(bitmap). I can also compromise with a Angry lynch over here;just letting you know. I'll explain further on Tuesday.

also, is it me or the second wagon- on argula - is made of the votes ade ont he first page of the topic? how can this actually be?

Who are you not okay with lynching?

YO LETS LYNCH SOMEONE

Why the thrust for blood? We have time. Let's get some info.

@bitmap, do you still think he is scummy? The guy you were voting for that is.

[CooLDoG]

answer my question inte. Why do you want a lynch

now

so bad.

[CooLDoG]

It means that he wanted to see if he would get scum credit if he did some action.

[CooLDoG]

Ugh. Bitmap is newbtown.

unvote;
vote Arugula

Putting Bitmap at L-1 with very little justification.

Say what?

More coming after coffee and catch up in another game.

Agree 100% with the bolded.

On the italic part, I know where you are coming from and I understand your point. I'm not ready to move onto the arugula ship yet. I still need a little bit more from him in order to make a determination.

What do you think of shos?

[CooLDoG]

And some additional

BS

insight:
I think Arugula's scum. Pretty much active lurking (I'm a hypocrite, I know, but...I need to find that wikipedia link CooLDoG gave out earlier), and he seems MUCH different tone-wise then he was in the last game I played with him. Plus that horrible L-1 vote on Bitmap...

I'm having a hard time judging scum in this game for whatever reason, so I think I'm going to go for an Arugula vote...once I check a votecount. Back in a sec.

Right, your points a valid weather or not you are doing the exact same thing. However, it is way to early to start attacking lurkers. We even have one person who is v/la due to medical reasons who hasn't been able to weigh in yet. Let's concentrate on real scum tells now.
Why does the vote count matter?

I'm not active lurking, (but you admitted to doing it) and

you vigged me last gam

e, so why would a change of tone (which is ridiculous as an excuse for a vote, by the way) incriminate me?

And again, how was my vote terrible compared to the rest? Just because mine was L-1? As I said before, a hammer would basically be suicide, and L-1 is when people are easiest to read. I still think Bitmap is scum.

bolded: damn meta game vendettas.
underlined: Why do we put people at l-1? How can you gain more information from people at l-1?

EBWODP: Hm, I guess you can talk about past games? Just not current ones?

Yes, but I personally put very very little weight on meta tells. 90% of the time meta lynches are mislynces. You can quote me on that.

Anyways, if we get up to L-1 on Arugula, I can lynch him. However, I think that most people believe I'm still scum.

Scale of 1-10, how

sure

are you that he is scum?

once arugula answers my questions I'll see if I'll be a voting for him.

[CooLDoG]

willing to hammer on a 50/50? Odd to say the least.

[CooLDoG]

vote: Arugula

You said people would be insane to hammer, yet you also say that the pressure of a hammer being close would generate the pressure that you needed to get reactions. Enjoy.

[CooLDoG]

vote: Arugula

You said people would be insane to hammer, yet you also say that the pressure of a hammer being close would generate the pressure that you needed to get reactions. Enjoy.

Yeah, and? How does that make me scum? No one would hammer at that point, unless they are dumb, but L-1

still

freaks people out, just because it's called L-1. There is always a chance one person can just hammer, even if it would be dumb to do so.

But you made a bad trap and used poor reasoning to hop on my wagon.

The fact is, by your own admission (of no one hammering), you weren't putting bit to l-1 in order to gain info. That ain't town. Also, one could say testing the waters and all of that, but this is the sticking point for me.

how is calling for a lynch active lurking or fence sitting?

One could argue that that is all you are doing. You aren't really adding anything to the game accept for, "ohh, I got a live one here guys, lynch WITH FIRE" That doesn't generate info, it doesn't really help the town. I can see where people are coming from. HOwever, I personally need more. Ahhg I hate all ways saying that. But it's true.

i have meta of Hiraki that suggests otherwise

Really now, so we are going on a meta lynch. What is your sample size?

my brain is my source

Yup, what I thought.

Angry has some good points I must admit. Shos does seem to be trying to go with the flow. Not sure though, not sure. I think we still need to give him a chance off of v/la. Keep in mind over long periods of time without posting your views can change from post to post simply because a lot happens in between postings.

Any way, happy with my current vote.

[CooLDoG]

@CooLDog, most of the time meta sucks, but the tone of a post can mean a lot.\

Also, why do I feel like we're playing a newbie game with CooLDog as the IC?

Naturally you are correct about the meta thing.

Also, I know right. So weird. I was/am trying a new play style here. As you probably don't know I am still trying to improve my game because I still suck. I should probably tone it down a notch...

Weird, please respond to my reply of your post. You also didn't comment on me calling you scum.

Cooldog, how is putting someone at L-1 to gain info scummy? Unless you think I am talking about a claim, which I'm not. I'm saying that people are easier to read at L-1. What scum motivation do I have to put someone at L-1, who I already know the alignment of, to get reads AND make it easier for the town to read that player?

It is scummy because you basically said that you can't. Let's follow the logic:

1, you but bit to l-1 to gain information.
2, you say that people would be insane to hammer.
3, you say that the way you get people's reactions at l-1 is because of the threat to hammer, and lynch!!!

2 negates 3, which defeats the reason why you put bit at l-1. I refuse to think that you are stupid, so you must have had another reason. Thus, my vote. Hope that is clear.

If I didn't respond with much emotion, wouldn't that make me town because of how I don't have to worry as much to be lynched on day 1?

Yes and no. It's sorta weird because both town and scum in the position should theoretically have the same motivation, staying alive. However, it is what scum and town say to achieve that that makes them scum or town. You didn't really give us anything to go on. So it still very hard to tell what's going on in your head, thus my null read. Also, you are realativly new. Noobs can say some pretty stupid shit. Like in my first game... Don't ask.

it seems you really are too eager to get a lynch here

That's why I voted him in the first place. I still have a slight scum read on him.

[CooLDoG]

Please explain your reads better hiraki.

[CooLDoG]

hay, copter, mind generating some real content?

[CooLDoG]

cooldog and bitmap are probably scum together

Okay, why?

Cooldog, my point is that although people would be stupid to hammer, it

still

might happen. L-1 freaks people out, proven by the votes on me.

Rofl is town. He did the same thing in the last game I played with him and was town.

So now you are saying that it was to get other people to freak out? Yeah, because you put someone at l-1 for no reason. Your theory about freaking out was even proved wrong when bit didn't react at all to it. As you say, if there isn't pressure to lynch l-1 doesn't matter.

Also, your sample size of the meta argument is one game. That is a HUGE sample size. Watch out on these meta arguments guys, don't lynch or confirm based off of them.

Do you seriously expect to nail the mafia on day 1 and 2 consecutively?

What makes you think there's only two mafia in the game?

Good catch. Interested in seeing the answer to this question.

arugula is town. obvious scum led counterwagon is obvious.

okay, why?

thanks for claiming scum tangion

okay, why?

if he is not scum he seems like a good lynch

for anyone who missed it, this is outrageously scummy

unvote, vote: tangion

bitmap is still probable scum but tangion is a sure thing

Okay, why?

????????????????????????

Hey everyone I'll commit sudoku if u vote angry pigeon

vote angry

Tempted to. We will call it a maybe for now.

But rofl isn't even low content. Read his ISO. They might be short, but they do have content.

What game are you reading?

Also, weird's latest posts seem to be town. Mostly gut. Partly the fact that he is asking tough questions in order to gain information.

Still keeping my vote where it is for now. Although there does seem to be some interesting developments that need thinking on.

[CooLDoG]

Hope it isn't serious or anything...

@angry, the deal with arug is the fact that he says no one would hammer yet he put someone at l-1 to gage reactions due to a hammer being close. It doesn't make sense to me. I don't see town there.

My view on bitmap is a huge question mark. New players are erratic... But you can't pass off all of the rougher portions on that can you? Call it fence sitting, but I really am null on bit.

[CooLDoG]

Rofl has not justified any of his statements this entire game. Period. That is NOT content, and that IS active lurking, intentional or not. That's why I may appear to be dense. I'm trying to get explanations for generalizations.

He may stipulate that it is. in fact, content, however, it is content in the same way that words are content. Meaning this, under his definition would be content:

////////////////////||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ SCUMS GUYS!

I might even possibly move my vote onto him at some point. still like my rugula vote for now.


@arugula, again, you didn't expect a hammer, and bit didn't expect a hammer (didn't even really acknowledge it) thus there is no pressure. Out of curiosity, what probability would you assign to there being pressure to hammer by someone? 0-100%.
SAME QUESTION to bit map.

[CooLDoG]

ok shos, explain how what i've been doing does not qualify as playing.

and cooldog, unjustified comments are still content. i'm interacting with people and making my positions known. thats the opposite of active lurking.

yeah... uhum. Sure. In a different universe maybe, but here you simply aren't contributing to the game. Thus activ lurking. Cop out on a technicality, be my guest, but you are not actively scum hunting for sure.

But that doesn't mean anything. I put him at L-1 to gain info, I didn't get the info I wanted, and you are calling me scummy for it.

But, you see, from what you have said I don't think you thought it was actually possible to gain info from that l-1 scenario.
Real question, answer honestly, Did you think bitmap thought that there would be a hammer?

[CooLDoG]

ok cooldog, i'm just going to start ignoring your stupidity because the way you continue to harp on this point is creating a major distraction from the game and it seems like that is your actual purpose here

interesting that you haven't answered to it yet

i know at least two of you fucks that just jumped have to be scum

If bit flips scum, yes. In ligt of the new bitmap serge I might re read him/her/it/Iforgotyourgenedersorry.

holy momma. first - I don't talk until rofl answers my questions.
[/b]

Not good.

[CooLDoG]

We can't know what bit flipped until he flips. It is highly unlikely that those jumps were scum on scum jumps. There is no pressure to bus. But if bit flips town we had better start looking at people on that wagon. Stop say that bit will or will not flip scum, you don't know that. It is a waste of bandwidth.

Bit wouldn't be a bad information lynch, and not a too terribly bad d-1 lynch all things considered. I think that arug/shos(maybe)/rolcopter are better.

If deadline forces I will end up voting for bit. But until then I still hope you guys come around and decide lynch

your bud

a scummier player.

[CooLDoG]

We can't know what bit flipped until he flips. It is highly unlikely that those jumps were scum on scum jumps. There is no pressure to bus. But if bit flips town we had better start looking at people on that wagon. Stop say that bit will or will not flip scum, you don't know that. It is a waste of bandwidth.

Bit wouldn't be a bad information lynch, and not a too terribly bad d-1 lynch all things considered. I think that arug/shos(maybe)/rolcopter are better.

If deadline forces I will end up voting for bit. But until then I still hope you guys come around and decide lynch

your bud

a scummier player.

I have no problems with being an information lynch. As long as town gets it together by Day 2.

This post seems town. Less emphasis on staying alive, more on scum hunting.

@shos, sorry for your loss. If you feel like this won't work out right now I personally would bear no bad feelings about you replacing out. If you choose to stay that would be very admirable...

yeah, all hop on to copter now shos. Feels right in me guts.

unvote, vote: rolfcopter

[CooLDoG]

I think shos is town. Just horribly misguided.

This post seems town. Less emphasis on staying alive, more on scum hunting.

I have so many problems with this statement. Bitmap's entire defense has been fear mongering and OMGUS. Claiming hes ok with being lynched for info is just a WIFOMy gambit and I don't care. It doesn't mean anything because scum are just as capable of saying that as townies. And Bitmap hasn't been scum hunting. Hes been OMGUSing everyone on his wagon and voting for whichever of the people he feels is mist easily lynchable at the time. First it was me, then Arugula, and now roflcopter. Bitmap is scum. Cooldog is now scum for officially starting up the counter wagon.

forget about that defense. Bit is okay with dieing. How is that scum motivated?!?!?!?

Anyway, my vote is a sheep, a good sheep. I didn't start this wagon, I hopped on it.

[CooLDoG]

Bit is okay with dieing. How is that scum motivated?!?!?!?

Bit

says

he is ok with dying. Doesn't mean its actually true. Its pure WIFOM.

fuck it, you are right.

[CooLDoG]

I think we need a claim now.

[CooLDoG]

#460 is bad. I'm going to have to read up on how

dat

wagon formed up.

[CooLDoG]

i'm in

unvote, vote: bitmap

Yeah I wanted to lynch him all along but everyone unvoted and I was the only one left.

UNVOTE: Tangion
VOTE: Bitmap

Yessssss
UNVOTE: Tangion
VOTE: Bitmap

I havent read at all since my last post, but I love ChaosOmega for starting this wagon again. Actual content to come shortly.

at least one of the above three is scum. all three of these votes are supper opportunistic vote hops that were just waiting for a justification to hop onto the bit wagon. All are horrible votes and

one of these three is getting lynched today. Period.

One of these three.

for the record, chaos' vote isn't scummy. He caught up and found who he thought was scummy. Don't try to bullshit your way out of a rope you three.

Yawn.

Bit isn't flipping scum.

Try a better target.

Like alex.

Here's a fun question.

Alex. If Bit flips scum, what's your opinion of me?

probably not scummy, but hiraki has been telling us that the bit wagon is bad all day long. Maybe trying to get town credit? Probably not, but it is just a hunch, he SHOULD NOT be lynched today.

i know at least two of you fucks that just jumped have to be scum

this will be proven wrong when bitmap flips scum

Note another content-less post by copter.

EVERYONE on this wagon is scummy as fuck

i propose we just lynch from this wagon till we hit scum

agree 100%

WeirdAlex didn't say anything about roflcopter or am I missing something? At least rofl is accusing people instead of just saying "I am town." which is an entirely useless statement for anyone to make. Is there a play in your playbook other than OMGUS?

defending your buddy. Good job.

I'm going to call pidg/roflcopter scums right now.

No. Because you will flip scum, and even on the off chance you flip town, everyone on your wagon isn't insta-scum. And inte isn't confirmed town either. If you flip town, he could be scum looking for towncred.

You should really not only attack people on your bandwagon and be flowery to people who aren't.

bullshit ass covering noted. Throw arugula into that pool of scummy.

throw shos into the town for now pot. I like his posts. No point linking to them, if you want to read them then go ahead.

rofl's 406 is again non content. Time to vote him.

vote: copter

just to note, I am willing to lynch any of these three: copter/pidg/arug pick one. I will shamelessly jump to the bigest wagon and hammer instantly if they get to l-1. I ain't putting up with bullshit this game day.

tl;dr: Pidgeon has more shit about Bitmap that only lightly and on an extreme level points to scum

Im sorry but Bitmap lied. Townies don't lie. Mafia lie. Hence Lynch all Liars.

not true in the slightest. more bullshit from one of the scumz three. Lynch with fire. now.

more later.

[CooLDoG]

I realized that I had read more than I expected...

Officially requesting protection if Bit flips scum. I want to say more but im at work so I really cant

well that didn't happen so you have no protection. lynch lynch lynch.

[CooLDoG]

VOTE: CooLDog
Fuck you.

Bitmap was the scummiest town player I've ever seen.

Stop trying to narrow the lynch pool down to three people.

for the scummiest player he flipped awfully town. Your jump and the two other jumps were scummy as hell. Your l-1 vote was scummy as hell. Nothing you say can convince me otherwise.

[CooLDoG]

yup. No claim will change my mind about those three shos. What's the point if I'm going to hammer anyway?

@arug, yup, you are scum. Also note how none of the three will vote for each other. Just saying.

[CooLDoG]

odd that you would be saying this even though I'm not voting fr you.

[CooLDoG]

shos is right. I'll be forced to contribute, and I will. Shos, I was referring to hammer one of the three. If someone claims cop with guilty and flips cop I'm voting for the guilty, I'm not stupid...

for all those not paying attention, shos is town.

[CooLDoG]

[quote="In post 485, Arugula"

]Rofl is town due to meta.

AP is town due to his case on Bitmap.

CooLDog is scum.

[/quote]
The underlined is bullshit.
the bolded is wifom
the italiced is unsubstantiated.

he was town there and was active, talking and scumhunting,

i am all of those things here. i've hunted scum, am actively in the process of lynching you, and am talking about how everyone should get on board and vote for shos

This statement is false.

[CooLDoG]

fuck, messed up quote.

Also, it is very hard to decide between arug and rolf. I want both dead.

[CooLDoG]

I don't have the will to respond to all of pidg's post right now because most of it is just boring non sense...

the reason why omnicron (whatever his name is) is "clear" is because he didn't blindly hop on once the wagon was started. He read up the entire day because he was v/la for the first part of the day and made a determination. Once you three saw that a bit lynch was probably going to go down due to the new support you three hopped on the wagon for the lynch of a townie that you all thought was 100% scum.

Tell me how three people out of the blue voting for a guy is not scummy. It is.

Secondly, I'm going to rally support for my lynch however I can. If that means giving shos an ego pump, I will.

thirdly, buddy buddy and defending is not necessarily scummy on its own. But when one guy flips scum (or is really fucking scummy) then you might be trying to devert a wagon/case and save one of your scum buds. That sentence was probably really poorly worded, but you get the point.
Hay copter, tell me why I'm scum. One line with the words "CooLDoG is scum, and this above quote is scummy" doesn't cut it. Hell justify any of your reads. I would be happy if you justified your d1 bitmap read. And that's pretty easy 'casue bit can't respond. Basically, do something. That's anothe rproblem with copter, by any standard he is active lurking. That's why I'm voting for him first. Angry is at least partially useful and in my opinion the most likely of the three to be town.

[CooLDoG]

but why is he refusing to admit CO is suspicious?

Because his post made sense. He gave reasons for his vote. He was catching up. It was townie. Vote hopping with no given reason and riding to a speedy lynch is NOT townie. Just because I think CO is town does not invalidate my arguments against you three.

[CooLDoG]

hiraki is town...

[CooLDoG]

Cooldog, why are you voting rofl again?

1) no content/active lurking
2) scummy hop on bitmap wagon
3) no justifications for any vote, ever.

hey guys

im really confused how anyone has a town read on roflcopter

he really has been trying to hide his intentions the whole game

*nods* this is true.

I am having a hard time reading coolDog. He made some intelligent posts and some really dumb ones.

Like:

vote: Arugula
You said people would be insane to hammer, yet you also say that the pressure of a hammer being close would generate the pressure that you needed to get reactions. Enjoy.

Terrible logic. Being at L-1 definitely cause people to behave differently. Cooldog should know this.

forget about that defense. Bit is okay with dieing. How is that scum motivated?!?!?!?

Ignores the fact that bitmap's post was WIFOM and gambit. Cooldog should know this.

And his interactions with me in the early day were retarded. He flat out did not remotely care about understanding what I was trying to say and it showed. Scum.

That's how it generally is with me these days. I think I'm right about to transition from being bad at mafia to being below average at mafia.

1, it is not horrible logic when arug says that here isn't any pressure himself. It shows that his intention was not to get information.

Why are you defending arug and rolf?

2, yeah that one was stupid.

Meh you are right, I was the counterwagon to Bitmap, but I don't know why they are choosing rofl over me or you.

Rofl is the weakest for sure. Not saying he is a weak player, but his posting style can easily be construed as scummy. Also he doesn't fight back as much. he won't wall up the thread or quote people and call them stupid.

Note this interaction links all three together.

The biggest point coming out of all of this, is that it seems that shos is voting rofl due to playstyle more than anything else. However, if you put on shos' rose colored lenses, the question now is why is he not harping on Tangion and Hiraki?

Regarding "Computer" - OMGUS. I do not see "Computer" being controlled by town.

this is exactly what is making me second guess my self on my shos town read. I need to think more on this game.

I do not know if I can buy into that. "If" Rach controls "Computer", why would she have it vote me?
A bunch of Bordeaux, I realize.

Honestly, I think scum are playing this smart and trying to pin this "Computer" stuff on Rach. Basing these votes off of setup speculation is pure scumminess.

you can't "pin" it on rach when the mod posts it. See the mod can only check his pms every so often, you can't place his post right after rache's. whole bunch of wifom if you ask me. Except that I agree that computer isn't town. Again, making me second guess myself.

I am VT

did I just see a scum claim?

anrgy's newest post feels off. Gut reads!

[CooLDoG]

@kaonwa, it is still very hard to "pin" it on someone seeing as the mod is the one having to post it. You may be correct, I'm just saying that it is very hard to pull off. I don't see any reason why chaos is scum. There hasn't been a case brought forth on him, and I personally haven't seen anything that sticks out at me as being particularly scummy. I guess I would say null right now.

[CooLDoG]

shos and CoolDog, in regards to Chaos' analysis of the Bitmap lynch: It is an easy out vote. Both times Chaos has “caught up” and laid a vote down on the easy target. First Bitmap, and now Rach. The whole “scum want to stay off of Bitmap lynch to look innocent” is contrived and crap. He does not analyze reasoning for anyone but jumps on Rach for the “Computer” box of wine.

Tangion can also eat rope for that one quote.
Where he votes computer to prompt discussion.
Yeah, that one.

fair. I don't agree 100% but I can see where you are coming from.

Also, for the record, double voting scum is pretty fucking powerful. Town have got to have some serious power, in my opinion, to counter it if the scum do have a 2x voter. Basically it gives the scum one less day to have to survive (says the guy who screwed up the wincons in his only modded game).

Rache, why did you claim V/T?

unvote, vote: chaosomega

Ok... CO/tangion isn't a team.

not so fast.

when under heavy pressure

a scum's first reaction is sometimes to powerbus. co's defense of his rach vote and submissive backing off of it while still trying to justify it is horribly scummy.

I can sort of agree with you here. I need to do some re-reading that I'm not too enthused to do on CO now that there is a big hoopla about him.

Shos' rach vote is bad. Just saying. It looks opportunistic to me right now. I'm not sure about this game anymore. I do need to do some re-reading bad.

[CooLDoG]

I can sort of agree with you here. I need to do some re-reading that I'm not too enthused to do on CO now that there is a big hoopla about him.

I don't understand. Why are you not enthused? Not saying this is scummy, I just want to understand.

ever had a day where you just want to sit around and do nothing? Ever a day where you can't muster the will to do something that you know that you should? Yeah, that is one of these days.

nothing much else to add except that I think CO will claim VT, just speculating.

[CooLDoG]

I need to reread again with this new info in mind. Chaos/Konowa are 100% town. that leaves 8 people, 3 of which are scum.

Initial thoughts from most to least town:
Roflcopter
RachMarie

Inte
Arugula
Hiraki

Cooldog
Tangion
Shos

I really need to look at those bottom 3 again. My reads have apparently been awful this game.

Hiraki can you please convince me that Tangion is town. If Tangion is town, then that uncomplicates today's lynch a lot.

Why is it that your two strongest town reads are my top scum reads? I'm still procrastinating on my read. I'll try to do it this afternoon.

[CooLDoG]

Claiming jk. Check my post where I crumbeed and votrd tangion. I targeted Hiraki last night
VOTE: Hiraki

okay. If hiraki flips scum you are town. If he flips town you are scum. This type of play indicates that you are town. Let's lynch hiraki.

Damn, I thought I had one extra day of night to re-read. Sorry I don't have anything. I tend to procrastinate on such things. My reads are so far 100% wrong this game. Which is why I probably need to re-read.

So CO & hiraki scum, I'll have to look for associations and stuff. interesting...

consider this a threat to hammer. I'm going to hold off a little to that kowana can post. I also want to hear from rach.

Tangion's replacement may be scummy. I'll have to look at him.

Shos is town too by the way. NO scum would out of the blue buss like that when no one had noticed the slip.

also, no mass claim today. We mass claim tomorrow if at all. We might have a watcher or a doc (who knows) that could out the scum trying to jk. We lynch confirmed scum today shos.

[CooLDoG]

Ha, knew it. But.... I don't think posting your picture is legal. ...

yeah. That picture posting is going to get you mod killed.

@shos. Yeah you would in order to avoid a draw.

[CooLDoG]

you guys do realize that BB just posted right? Meaning that you might not be mod killed.
anyway. after konowa posts I'll hammer.

[CooLDoG]

Triple post: You all should queue for golden sun mafia now that this is over ^^

yeah. That would be cool. I'm in... I was in before you posted this

woah i was james potts!

mind blown.

my role was the lead engineer, a "vanilla neighborizer," i could attempt to recruit people into my private engineering bay quicktopic and if they were vanilla (town or mafia goon) they would join me. n1 i targeted konowa, fail, n2 i target rach, success. i said i could only target vanilla town in thread to misdirect the scum so they wouldn't claim vanilla when i was asking for those claims.

and the computer being controlled by dead players is a

really

cool mechanic, i'd like to see something like that in a future game

This was good play.

My reads were 100% off this game. I think my overall posting in itself was okay, but my scum reads were way, way off. I think my problem is that I'm still coming off of scum withdraw after 6-7 consecutive scum games. I'm mixed about my performance. Either angry or rolf deserve the MVP. I'll go with rolf simply because the jk was partly luck and rolf's reads were basically spot on without any help. That isn't to say that angry didn't play exceptionally well.

[CooLDoG]

vengufuls are fun.

@shos, you all should have requested as many as you could in order to rule out town power roles. That's pretty much the only use. But you also know that if you calimed VIG then you wouldn't get a CC. That's the use of it.

[CooLDoG]

yeah, it got me. I suck at town now. At least it was better than last game where I had trouble disengaging from easy lynches.

[CooLDoG]

Yeah, I have that problem too. Someone makes an okay case and pushes really hard and I start to second guess myself. Like what happened with me and CO. I was convinced he was town, but constant talk about him made me second guess near the end. Same with copter, I was second guessing on him all the game. I just didn't say it out loud.