Mini 1452 - Inevitable Mafia (Game Over)

[gorckat]

/confirm

[gorckat]

Radiant is town.

Discuss.

[gorckat]

vote: DCLXVI

Your 2, 3 and 4 go from wanting more info, not seeing why I make the statement and then being totes fine with my statement.

[gorckat]

I'm comfortable with my vote on DCL.

Like nhammen, DCL answering what changed between 'wanting more info' and 'getting it' (but still not seeing why I say it).

What

did you get?

And if understand Thad's point (cold meds making me fuzzy), DCL was dissonant on TMT as well, also good reason to vote.

@mod: At least one vote coutn has me voting someone other than DCL.

[gorckat]

Hey Cooldog...do you think jmo is doing with DCL that thing I did with you in our recent game together?

[gorckat]

I'm unvoting for now to give this more thought.

I may or may not still vote him, and am still broadly in support of this lynch, but am in no rush to lynch a mason claim.

Nor am I in the mood to waste a huge chunk of discussion time.

VOTE: RadiantCowbells

That's not an unvote...

I am not DCL's mason buddy.

How many masons are there, DCL?

[gorckat]

I don't think someone needs claim mason also, if there is one. He would be relying on his scum partner to claim mason with him, if one of them flip scum, he just gave away his partner too.

So you don't want scum to out themselves?

Nice.

[gorckat]

Let's parse it:

You don't think someone needs to claim as DCL's buddy
Because that would be counting on a goon to confirm as scum once we flip one

I mean- you thought it, too, right? That a scum claiming mason would out him and DCL? So you outline why they shouldn't?

And I'm a moron?

[gorckat]

Radiant- if you don't want him hammered, you don't put him at L-1.

[gorckat]

unvote

@Mod- status on guru?

[gorckat]

I've been waffling back and forth between wanting the other mason out and not out. Cooldog's big rant about getting them out worked for me, but I understand the advantages of keeping them hidden.

What irks me is that I hate the day 2 and 3 game of ohh...that player everyone suspected and ran to L-1 Day 1 is still alive. It just gets to be a damn distraction from new business.

I know that in and of itself isn't a good reason to want DCL lynched, but every time I see this moment (like every game, I think), I want to look at how often towns run scum to L-1 Day 1 and let them off.

The newer players are sitting in a jumble of meh for me right now. I've been ISOing off and on all day but haven't made up my mind whom to push yet.

[gorckat]

Radiant is town... And I don't particularly want to say why.

radiant wants someone to hammer me but she wants an easy out so she isn't responsible for the lynch. that is scummy as hell.

Since Radiant seems to be scum now, wanna share why you had them as town for secret reasons?

[gorckat]

Sorry for the double.

This is exactly why dcl has to go today. If we lynch him today we gain so much information and remove so much wifom that to not lynch him would be like give the scum a lolly pop.

This is making lean back to a DCL lynch...if he is a mason, then him living later is a pre-packaged mid-game lynch for scum, and even later with a partner claim.

As scum, I would

absolutely

gamble, in a 4 v 3 LYLO, on having a scum bud claim. Get caught out and you are now gonna have a quick 3 v 2 day then go 2 v 1, texbook lylo. Not shabby.

The other options are for the partner claim on Day 2 (11 players) or Day 3 (9 players). At both points, we need to not be dickering over this.

Obviously ignoring power and killing roles because I don't care what they do and sometimes, oh shit- they die at night.

[gorckat]

v/la 48 hours. Might be taking the spouse back to the doctors and have a load of work put off during her recent hospital stays hanging over my head.

[gorckat]

vote:radiant

Phone at the er, wife pending admission.

Skimming during day as i could. Dont like the lack of dcl lynch selling being done. Lots of focus on others and linking og rob-dcl way thin.

[gorckat]

Just replace the fuck out Radiant. Don't be an asshole about getting voted.

[gorckat]

The advantage to letting DCL around is that if he lives, he and his partner confirm each other and bang, we have two townies and narrow our lynch pool.

If he's town, this is a obviously a huge advantage and focusing the lynch today on someone who didn't vote him (since his partner obv wouldn't) is likely to better our lynching scum today.

BDK saying partner claims before lylo made me think I missed the obvious hole I described in 247 (iirc) (the day 2/3 options for partner to out), but I had forgotten to go into a little more detail with what I think we'd be dickering about.

Let's say DCL is kept around and his partner claims tomorrow. Neither dies come Day 3 and no counter comes.

Are we debating if they're scum going for the gold or if scum are wifoming us into lynches?

"

When do we lynch a living DCL/partner

" is the question we need to answer today. If we are going to let DCL pass, are we going to hang him tomorrow? Day 3? If so, then we have let scum dictate the future of the game and we need to take that control back now and leave them unknowing of the future.

unvote

@Radiant- seriously...why the fuck are you self-voting? Why did you do it earlier in the game? Where else have you played mafia?

[gorckat]

Can someone, anyone, summarize the case on DCL before the Mason claim? I'm looking through his ISO, didn't see anything bad about it up until the Mason claim...

Good question, and I can't really speak for others because I was pretty much on cruise control for the early stages of this game*.

For me, it was his shiftiness over seeing why I called Radiant town. He didn't get it and then he saw why I did it and never really explained that transition.

It still niggles at me because I actually did base my on

something

, just not anything generally considered obvious or any kind of universal tell, and its something that could be spun as town or scum so it is doubly moot. Radiant had counted the 10 confirms needed to start the game and did so, which read like a tad of newbish enthusiasm. I wouldn't expect scum to do the same- as a rule, scum want to go unseen- so I went with town. Wiggle the wifom dial and you can go back and forth as desired.

So I took a plunge from my normal RVS move of 'vote the person with the most votes with no explanation' and decided to see how moving the game this way worked. Because I'd never done it, I didn't really have anything to base my expectations on.

Now, DCL joining in the calls for more explanation was sensible, fishing a reason for the knowledge and then being all chill with it raised my hackles and I poked. And others poked. And his claim was to use the fishing portion of that wobble as a breadcrumb.

Because the "breadcrumb" first read like fishing, I was hesistant to buy into it. Had Radiant or I coyly acknowledged that possibility, no doubt scum-DCL would see it as a boon to have helped ID masons. But we didn't, obv, so he later falls back on it "I was crumbing".

And suddenly (I just thought)- why do masons need to crumb? They have each other...they go "TA-DA! We are MASONS!" and the scum tremble and the town rejoices. Was the crumb a hedge against one of them dying? Seems way early to be worried about that.

*On me cruising, my wife was yesterday admitted to the hospital for the 4th time in <30 days. We've had at-home nurse care for a week and a half, I've been playing nurse taking off time...it's been a crazy ride and she is having an exploratory surgery tomorrow, so my VLA will be extended (I'm blowing off work duties for the last half hour), but I am just as likely to be posting like crazy from hospital wi-fi.

[gorckat]

As far as the breadcrumbing is concerned, I did it that in the event I was run, I could avoid having to y partner claim.

Still on a phone? Because the second and third portions are muddied by typos.

[gorckat]

First, since DCL-mason believes there are scum on his wagon, here's in one place everyone who voted him:

Cooldog, gorckat, Radiant, Rob, Thad, TMT

vote: RadiantCowbells

After re-scanning those ISOs, I really don't like Radiant's re-vote of DCL and asking he not be hammered.

Also- read the start of post #62 and the end of post #236. Cognitive dissonance or something something.

[gorckat]

Radiant- I again request you replace out.

You don't want to play the game? Fine.

Stop being an ass and get the fuck out.

[gorckat]

@Gorckat if I'm scum then my replacement will be scum too so your vote would stay where it is, and since you want me lynched you shouldn't care if I get replaced, no?

Principle.

Explain your flop from 'masons no name partners Day 1' before DCL had even claimed to 'DCL name partner or die' recently.

[gorckat]

unvote

[gorckat]

The unvote? Yeah-since my wife got out of surgery yesterday, I keep having half thoughts but haven't been in a spot to really post, but she's going to sleep and I'm staying here tonight, so it is actually easier than being at home last night.

Anyway-

Thinking Radiant's role is likely provable, as someone else mentioned.

Think rob was the first to touch on the mason idea, but having a weird time getting mason and masons to yield both words and not just combined words.

Like Yates breakdown on cooldog and find rofl a little silly for standing up for him.

Would vote TMT but rather cooldog at the moment (but not before a votecount and catching up where we left him- I think waiting for a claim).

nhammen and Thad have sort of scooted by low content wise, but I trust thad more. nhammen gives me a feel of a sort of '2nd level' recaps (not just recapping the stuff he missed, but throwing in a little more commentary).

[gorckat]

Yeah. So I still haven't been able to catch up efficiently.

UNVOTE: CoolDoG. I'd rather not be on a lynch wagon I haven't been able to participate in, game-wise.

Sketchy. Your major points against CD have not magically gone away and your last notable posting was after his last post.

[gorckat]

vote: cooldog

[gorckat]

I didn't actually know there was a specific ruleset that separated normal games from theme games.

What about bomb and veteran, and the other common roles that aren't on either the normal or non normal list? Are they situationally allowed or what?

Anything on the 'explicitly normal' list (including modifiers) is allowed. Anything 'explicitly not normal' is forbidden.

I believe a single non-normal role or modifier is allowed, which would include Commuter. If something else odd turned up, bring a rope.

[gorckat]

Bumping my VLA through Thursday (expect my wife to be discharged sometime Wednesday, daughter has LAX practice Tue/Wed/Thu).

I'm fine with a TMT lynch. Are we letting him claim or going straight for the hammer?

unvote
vote: TMT

[gorckat]

Because he, Yates and nham have not posted in 3+ days.

[gorckat]

You have me in your town pile. You have me above 2 nulls and 3 scum, and yet you're willing to lynch me to appease?

A lynch is always better than no lynch, especially when we can look back and try to glean some connections and motives.

[gorckat]

His votes have been pretty lazy overall.

Just noticed this- fwiw, please note that per my previous posts, my wife had been in the hospital for an extended period. She was discharged Thursday, so I should be able to be a bit more useful going forward.

Left from the 'lynch the mason club' are myself, cooldog and thad. Of those, Thad gives me the most heebies.

Are we gonna hold DCL naming the partner until tomorrow?

What's the scoop Radiant?

[gorckat]

@Thad...meant on the dcl wagon, not nec. on him as mason. Sorry if misrep stance.

[gorckat]

I prefer having the full DCL wagon at the top of the list, so me or Thad first and second.

[gorckat]

Same.

[gorckat]

My proposed claim order for the rest:

Yates

gorckat

roflcopter
nhammen
jmo16mla
BROseidon

ThAdmiral

Yates, then Hoops.

[gorckat]

Who all is due for prods? rofl hasn't posted at all today, has he?

[gorckat]

I am a vanilla townie.

[gorckat]

I am VT.

[on the off chance there is a LD role]

This raised some hackles for me earlier because a Lie Detector is not normal, but I dismissed it as a possibility for that one nugget of weird a mod is allowed, but the claimed Commute shot would already be that one nugget.

Yates- have you played with a Lie Detector before?

[gorckat]

Same. Been hopping with driving 9 hours the other day and now replacing my brakes.

Had a thought about thad on cooldog, iorc. Yates had theory about rofl and cd together. Didnt finish post because was tired and dony have time at this moment.

Ill be round thos evening.

[gorckat]

Why didn't you look at CoolDog or Rofl?

You said they were linked as scum Day 1.

[gorckat]

He can't have looked at anyone in his scum class (rofl, nahmmen, you and me) because he wouldn't be pairing us all up.

[gorckat]

And you claimed VT first becausee?

Because he had to go at the top of the list and didn't know what town power was lurking below him.

[gorckat]

Well, since CoolDog put me at L-1 - still without a case - I may as well truth claim.

I am the Town Cop
I received an innocent result last night
I will not be revealing innocent results until I have two or an innocent and a guilty

That is all.

Or something else. I'll put it to you this way; my result wasn't a guilty. I'm leaving it at that.

Uh-huh.

Intent: Yates.

Drop the name in case I'm wrong.

[gorckat]

Or an SK or something.

vote: Yates

[gorckat]

Sk shot bp gf perhaps.

[gorckat]

/out if no lynch scene by 1:26 pm. East Coast time.

Not gonna sit around in a game where the mod posts vote counts 48+ hours apart.

[gorckat]

/sort of withdrawn

I didn't realize the lynch vote was just last night- thought it was Sunday- so I guess I'll wait until 24 hours have passed from it.

I'm frustrated that 10 days and 7 pages has seen 4 vote counts and I am arrogantly considering my time greater than any unknown issues Kit is experiencing.

[gorckat]

I am leanng towards that corner case of no scum on dcl.

[gorckat]

So gorck, you think that 3/5 of Me/Hoopla/Rofl/jmo/nhammen are scum, 1/5 is mason, and thus only 1/5 is VT?

Is this purely reads based?

Maybe. Been at my daughter's 8th grade graduation all day and phone posted earlier. Have to re-read and look at the wagons and reads.

[gorckat]

Casual skims on nhammen while at lacrosse tourney this weekend. Not feeling motivated to pore over things just yet.

Gut dislike of nhammen and Thad, not in love with Hoops and jmo, minimal feelings on Bro. Want to believe in RC and that Cooldog are town.

[gorckat]

Cooldog wagon as it stands: admiral, DBK, BRO, Rob, DCL

Totally missed this earlier when doing VCA. Important to note that nhammen then puts CooLDoG an L-1.

Reading nhammen's ISO is kind of painful. He never gives solid reads and is super reactionary to everything. He tries to look like he's adding content while never actually doing anything. I think Yates is probably right on this one. If it's not nhammen then CooLDoG is probably scum (that Rob and DCL flipped town is indicative of this).

VOTE: Nhammen

What should I be noting about the L-1? I'm not getting all of it. Are you just saying that because votes 4 and 5 were town, that 6 is more likely scum?

I agree with your second point- lots of 'I'm paying attention at what is going on' sorts of posts.

vote: nhammen

Forgot you were still alive. Fuck, that bothers me.

[gorckat]

nhammen isn't a bad wagon. He's definitely been flying under the radar.

And Thad hasn't?

@nhammen re cooldog: Don't think scum would have pushed so hard on the mason. Would draw way too much heat. Call it WIFOM, but Cooldog made a lot of noise over it. Unless someone has seen CD take a hot seat stance like that and ride it multiple days and not get 'convinced' to 'right' his ways when he was scum, I'm not going to assume it is a scum gambit now.

[gorckat]

Although CooLDoG, is leading the town scummy?

Why? Do some independent thinking and explain why you think this.

[gorckat]

Thought you were asking if Cooldog was the leading suspect for the town.

[gorckat]

I want to lynch off the DCL wagon.

And yes I'm aware of the risk here but frankly I'm super willing to take that risk at this point.

Thad's a wildcard for me. I've been in line with his thinking early game and that lead me to seeing maybe an all-town wagon on DCL.

Both Thad and nhammen both have an under the radar vibe.

If Thad is scum and CD is town, then scum would want to not make the lynch on the DCL wagon- it's an eventual scum lynch when PoE catches up.

Also share CD's skepticism re Hoops...something felt hinky when she jumped in the game.

Thad preferred lynch followed by nhammen. And rofl...I don't trust him as far as he can be thrown by Thor, God of Thunder, let alone in LYLO. His whole playstyle is active lurky. Every time I remember he's still alive is a moment I really despise this game.

[gorckat]

Don't remember if I posted anything that was lost.

vote: nhammen

[gorckat]

What's your case, Thad?

You flipped from seeing Cooldog being smart scum pushing the mason lynch to a re-read of him as town when there was no traction for a lynch on him.

You're defaulting to 'scum must have been on that wagon' after saying you would only lynch me or Cooldog.

Your 727 says that one of nhammen or I are likely scum for our positions on the DCL wagon, but you fail to include him as an option in your possible scum team.

[gorckat]

I voted for nhammen.

[gorckat]

Yeah- we should have his result first and then the mason claim.

[gorckat]

I don't see how pointing that out makes you look town at all.

Scum would have been daft to shoot at RC- they know which pool the mason is in and have odds to hit him or RCs investigation.

Alternatively, they no-killed because if they shoot wrong, they could be in a 5 v 2 with three confirmed (rather than two confirmed if they hit the mason or RC's target).

Getting 3 confirmed would be pretty decent for town.

I'm leaning town on rofl because he came in early on nhammen. If our mason is outside him, then I feel pretty good.

[gorckat]

I was looking at it from the point of view that scum shooting want to kill someone and from that POV, I don't see how shooting at a guy who has a possible commute in his pocket makes sense.

Re-reading, I see what you are saying in shooting at RC being ++. It either has the benefit of missing the 5 v2 / 3 confirmed scenario while possibly killing off two confirms.

That didn't come through in your post. It just read like a 'look at me- I'm being town, I'm semi-conf'.

[gorckat]

Thad's general reluctance on nhammen has me stumped.

He's experienced, so I doubt he'd outright say he preferred a Hoops over nhammen lynch while it was building steam if they were buddies and Hoops is town. If all three of them are scum, then it'd be kind of smart because there is 'no way' experienced scum would tie them all up in a lazy defense bundle like that.

I can read him as town hesitant to be wrong, however, which fits my earlier thought about no scum on DCL.

nhammen's late 'one of gorc/thad is scum' could be read as distancing (thad-scum) or set up at least one bad lynch (if thad is town).

[gorckat]

Sheeping rofl. Have felt off about Hoops, anyway.

vote: Hoopla

You know what, in all honesty it is probably best to lynch from me/gork even if it is me. I'm that confident that gork is scum I'm happy to go 1 for 1 with him. One of us has to be lynched sooner or later as there is always going to be that question mark on us, it might as well be now.

I've had that same thought, but if we're wrong, scum get two mislynches- it sets up a fool's gambit where when one of us comes up town, the other goes down inevitably.

I'd be willing to sheep RC and CD on jmo- two unknowns on Thad already has me hesitant. jmo did start the day pretty shittily.

[gorckat]

I alreafy said i prefer claim to narrow our options.

[gorckat]

I was worried it'd be you, making my crossed fingers town read on you less useful to myself. (Maybe I'm giving too much credit for riding nhammen early on, but there was no need to setup a future bus/distance at that time- we've derped along the whole way).

jmo probably would have been my second, but his morning 4 was icky, Bro third, Hoops fourth.

[gorckat]

Also no cc from me.

I might quit mafia forever if you were wagoning your mason buddy.

[gorckat]

It just seemed superfluous for you to actually note that you were not countering jmo as mason.

rofl- what changed for you from wanting the mason claim early to not wanting it earlier?

[gorckat]

How are you not payong enough attentionto remember yates fake guilties?

[gorckat]

Thad
Bro
rofl

I have been considering rofl town, so I expect our last two to flip as Thad and Bro.

Unless CD is a godfather and/or scum have daytalk (meaning RC may have been coached heavily), I would consider them off the table.

6 alive, four to lynch (shouldn't be five)- Unlikely to have any of Thad, Bro, rofl and myself to self-vote, so perhaps RC and CD can hold their votes and we can avoid quickhammers for the win?

[gorckat]

o_O

When do you think you might give this info.

We hit scum today and you or CD get popped.

That info is either moot (CD dead) or unavailable (you dead).

[gorckat]

Fuck it. Let's ride the dragon.

What do you think of you and CD holding votes until it's clearer where we are targeting so there isn't a quickhammer?

[gorckat]

Also RC do you not know what an unvote is?

I don't think RC answered earlier when I asked about off-site experience in response to a crazy self-vote in place of an unvote.

[gorckat]

If there's three scum or someone numb enough to the circumstances to vote RC.

It is silly of RC to be doing, and the question is still open about experience off-site and voting conventions there.

[gorckat]

Cooldog- where are you on rofl? Do you think Bro is the other scum?

I'm okay with trading with Thad if he's scum and you really want to get me before him, but we need to hit scum today for that to be possible.

If Thad is scum, then we can roll Bro tomorrow. But if you roll me first, then that's it.

[gorckat]

You can put me on the Thad list, too (probably intended in place of Thad calling himself scum).

I've always (all of like, 3 games, iirc) found rofl a troubling read. His style is a little disjointed and doesn't always have a flow about it. I had a gut feel about him being scum in lylo once, but the other guy had reasons to be scum, so I voted there and rofl won. I think I misjudged him as scum in another lylo or late-game situation, as well.

I don't have that same feel here, and when I looked at that game, his posts felt different in this game. He did take an early run at nhammen, so I counted that in his favor. nhammen was getting a little criticism by myself, and maybe others, and I could see arguing that it was a distance-push, but it was totally not needed. If rofl was scum with nhammen and ended up winning, I'd have to re-read that move and consider a scummy nom.

As for Thad, I get the feeling he has forgotten major events recently and is not fully aware of the situation- forgetting Yates was dead (apparently forgetting his fake cop claim and run-up) and thinking it would be possible for RC to be QL'd with help only from a self-vote.

I have my own scum read on Thad and a sheep on RC / POE on Bro. rofl-scum would piss me off.

[gorckat]

Right now I'm feeling one of ThAd and Gorck is scum with Broseidon.

[snip]

Either way, it looks like Gorckat is the probable lynch today.

If you think Bro is scum with one of Thad/me, then you need to be pursuing Bro.

I know all scum say it in LYLO, but don't lynch me first...I'm just a townie.


Thad- you've fluffed a lot with pseudo VCA. Any combo of scum teams at this point yields a possible all-town wagon (ie- you and rofl = TMT was all town).

[gorckat]

ThAd then can't decide whether to deathtunnel me or gorck, so he just sort of wavers back and forth in who he wants to deathtunnel. Oh, and he didn't think nhammen was scum when the guy at that point was pretty damn scum.

Why would Thad-scum deathtunnel gorc-scum if a lynch on Bro-town were still on the table and possible?

Your whole 897 makes the case for Thad-scum, which I like, but you're taking the easy way and angling for a quick win because several people have expressed interest in my lynch.

The Thad/nhammen interplay you mention is the one thing that gives me any pause on Thad right now and leaves me that little bit willing to consider Bro/rofl.

vote: Broseidon

[gorckat]

Holy fucking bullshit.

[gorckat]

If rofl was scum with someone other than Bro, he would have hammered Bro.

If he is scum with Bro...then fucking lynch Bro.

[gorckat]

i think the point about admiral/gorc not crossvoting after spending days nominally calling each other main scumreads is really good

I believe we have cross voted in earlier days.

I'd be all for a Thad lynch, but Bro made that sideways vote at me after laying out why Thad is scum.

The only way someone wouldn't see Bro as scum (given lack of hammer) is if they think scum are Thad and me. If that's the case, let's run Thad over and then everyone left can spend two days lynching me then Bro.

[gorckat]

unvote

If Nhammen is scum I am definitely checking Gorckat tomorrow.

When did you check Cooldog? What changed between the above post and nhammen's flip?

[gorckat]

I'm not sheeping people, other people are sheeping me.

I was the first one to push on both Nhammen and Hoopla.

You characterizing it as me "sheeping" you is something I don't like at all.

VOTE: Broseidon

That sounds ok to me.

vote: bro

This makes me think Thad is NOT scum with Bro and making me reevaluate the whole situation.

[gorckat]

...You just noticed that now.

Yeah. Work has been stressing me so I haven't had full focus. Figured out I get more done in the am, so I hustled early the last few days and can take it easy in the pm.

Still not 100% clear on you. Could be you/rofl. I'm back to full paranoia while I re-read.

[gorckat]

Cooldog looks to have been active during the time Bro was at L-1, so if Bro is scum, either rofl or CD could be partners.

It is unlikely any two of me, Thad or RC are scum together, else neither RC or I would have unvoted before Cooldog came by. It also rules out rofl/(thad, RC, me).

For Bro/Thad, the wagon on nhammen would have to be a hard bus- they were the first two voters, although at least myself and I think RC had expressed interest. Bro did make another sideways move re:Thad when he said he thought Thad was the lynch and moved towards jmo, iirc.

(trying to recap re-read thoughts off my head- so much for easy afternoons :/)

@Radiant- what changed re your thoughts towards me between nhammen's flip and sharing you inno on Cooldog?

I'm also not keen on Radiant holding back whatever it is that tells them Cooldog is not a godfather.

[gorckat]

Mislynching totally drops town's chances, too.

If you and Cooldog are town, then one of you dies tonight.

If we mislynch, we pretty much lose.

[gorckat]

I don't really give a fuck what you think scum will do tonight. They don't give a shit what you're going to say.

[gorckat]

You've said you had an inno on Cooldog, you had info that suggests he's not the GF, that you don't think he's scum.

You've been all over the place, so just lay it out straight.

[gorckat]

I'm starting to question your claim heavily. You skip questions directed at you and have been shifty on Cooldog's innocent.

Why wouldn't scum shoot you night 1?
-A) You die
-B) You live and someone else dies (protective role known, vig shot burned)
-C) You live and no one dies (you burned your commute)

In all cases, scum are arguably better than letting you live.

[gorckat]

You being scum means you're either a loner (2 scum vs 2 masons...maybe...not quite mountainous) or scum with Thad.

Thad has sheeped onto you several times for hokey looking reasons, but I would have estimated him better than that.

[gorckat]

672 (Post Yates Lynch / Pre Flip / Twilight Day 2)

Final reads at the end of today:

Scummy:
Nhammen
Jmo
Hoopla

Towny:
Roflcopter
Broseidon
Thadmiral

758 (Just prior to nhammen lynch / Day 3)

Reads:

Town-
Thad
Bro
Roflcopter

Null-
Cooldog
Jmo
Hoopla

Scum-
Gorckat
Nhammen

(Day 4)

784: I got an inno on CoolDog and commuted last night.

(Day 5)

892: What I've told you is enough. If I die, don't lynch CoolDog tomorrow no matter what.

940: I don't believe that Cooldog is scum.

984: I just don't buy it.

985: Actually there's a reason but if I explain it mafia will do something tonight that will drop our chances to win significantly.

994: I got an inno on Cooldog.

While Yates was derping out and claiming cop as a townie, it was noted he had not investigated people on his scum list. Somewhat amusingly, you did the very same thing. Some will say cops should look at the nulls and others will say that cops should confirm scums.

The main point is that you're either withholding useful information to town (why you're so certain CD is not a godfather) or you're claim has a hole in it.

A kind of big one..."Actually there is a reason" 200 posts after declaring a straight innocent from a 1-shot "cop invest" (per your original claim).

[gorckat]

I'm gonna fish like a mother fucker.

CD-scum may have opted to vote Bro-scum once it appeared there were cold feet on Bro lynch- it goes through and he pops you at night and boom- CD-scum GF rides into the sunset.

RC-scum buddying the shit out of CD-town with fake results can't keep his shit straight and goes inno>info suggesting not gf>a reason he's not>just an inno.

Do you really think gorc-scum pulled off Bro-town without letting Cooldog get in and vote or not?

[gorckat]

Yep- I thought CD voted after I bailed. Same diff, essentially. It was a lynch ready to happen.

Thad has an abyssmal number of posts for a player in the whole game and rofl only has a few more after replacing in ~10 pages.

There's reason to be skeptical on everyone at the moment.

Bro- thoughts on the rest of my badgering on RC?

[gorckat]

I actually remembered rofl wrong- Cooldog has an atrociously low post count. rofl isn't terrible, actually.

[gorckat]

Wanna take a stab at explaining why your statements on CD varied so much?

[gorckat]

K.

Your pre-claim and post-claim day 1 look like Jeremy Wade, seeking 'others with killing powers' and accusing someone of being a roleblocker.

[gorckat]

I haven't voted RC because I am waiting for the rest of the town to weigh in on whether or not I am totally off-base or not.

Going by the simplest explanation, RC is legit because nothing contrary has come up (claims or flips), and absent GF knowledge we probably should not assume one 'just because'.

That said, RC's varying statements based on his results make me skeptical. It wasn't a simple waver between 'innocent' and 'not scum', but it was 'inno' and 'have info he is not a GF' which are not the same thing at all.

I can imagine scenarios that is possible, but it does not align with what has been claimed and leads to a 'lynch all liars' position because it would mean information was obfuscated at a point it should not have been and landed us (or at least me) here.

[gorckat]

I have said nothing at all to do with my results; I have a cop inno on CoolDog. You are twisting my words to suggest that I have said something else.

I have information that I can't give at this point in time that suggests CoolDog is 100% not godfather.

Oh, my bad.

[gorckat]

And I'm not assuming Cooldog-GF.

Godfather was thrown by someone else way earlier and your 890 happened.

It is totes possible for you to be scum faking JOAT and clearing CD for the cred.

Tangent- You've used 'save' in several places where 'game' makes more sense. Phone posting?

[gorckat]

And CD-GF, RC-scum makes no sense because the Bro-hammer wasn't made, in spite of CD being online in that window.

[gorckat]

Why don't you make a case for it besides "RC wasn't clear about why he thought CD was town11!" instead of waffling harder than the golden griddle up the street?

I love your use of waffling. More people need to use the word.

It doesn't apply to me, however (at least the way I use it), because I'm not voting/unvoting or flailing multiple directions, calling you scum, then town, then scum, etc...

I am drilling in one specific direction and that is:

Your claim, subsequent results on CD, further statements under questioning today and overall refusal to clarify what you seem to be able to clarify but refuse to do so 'because it might suggest scum strategy' are suspect.

My ISO should have several posts with the relevant quotes (rather than doing so again) that show the trail of mixed message. Adding you should show a general refusal to address all the salient points, cherry picking what you would answer.

IF the rest of the town thinks there is nothing there, then I'll let it go for now.

IF the rest of the town wants more out of you, by way of what info you won't share, then give it or get hung.

I'll put a rope ring on it when I'm ready to. (Anyone know our deadline?)

[gorckat]

The horse is dead- you refuse to answer the questions or in any way resolve the variances regarding your secret knowledge and results on CD.

A) The town thinks I'm an idiot for pursuing it and lynching you is not an option, regardless of what I think
B) The town thinks there is something there
-B1) You resolve it to satisfaction and we move assured that you cleared CD legit
-B2) You fail to assure us of your authenticity and we move to lynch

[gorckat]

regarding your secret knowledge and results on CD.

on D1 a Godfather would NOT have claimed VT under threat of lynch. That is just idiotic; they would have claimed a lesser power role, particularly after there was a known invest and asked to have been checked after the mason died.

CoolDog didnt do anything to bait the investigate and is thus almost certainly not a Godfather.

optimal GF play by far would have been to kill one of the masons N1, let me shoot rob, then ask to be investigated the next night to get a cleared scum.

CoolDog scum doesnt make sense at all; end story.

Seriously? That is the info withheld for this:

985: Actually there's a reason but if I explain it mafia will do something tonight that will drop our chances to win significantly.

[gorckat]

And prior to posting that, you felt that was a giant secret they hadn't already set out upon?

PE: Fucking LOL.

[gorckat]

Because I'm still deciding if you're scum (deliberately evasive over the posts I quoted) or a village idiot.

[gorckat]

And I also don't subscribe to the whole 'you're scum I'm not speaking with you' school.

That is a shitty attitude because until flips, you can always be wrong.

It is an anti-town stance to take.

[gorckat]

Just fucking explain it.

[gorckat]

Fuck you rc. Ive had it with this bullshit.

vote: rc

[gorckat]

Ugh where did gorck go.

To the gym, Gamestop, the grocery and the pharmacy. Phone died in line at the grocery in the middle of this post.

[gorckat]

Yeah, I'm confirming there's more to my confirmed inno on CD than just my investigate, but me saying it would be a stupid as fuck thing to do and it's not going to happen.

How fucking stupid can it possibly fucking be if we are in likely lylo and you won't reveal why the fuck you have an innoncent with more than your claimed fucking 1-shot cop.

I am melting the fuck down and will not post again until tomorrow. I have never had my buttons pushed this way and I'm gonna get game banned if I keep it up.

</ATE>

[gorckat]

2 scum vs 2 masons 9 townies is pretty balanced imo, if rc is scum he's alone (see also: rc's obsession with a solo scum remaining)

This idea is my Obi-Wan Kenobi.

vote: Bro

If I hadn't hared off after RC and all that nonsense, I would have been fine with this.

Quick re-scan and gut twinge of scum on certain phrases.

[gorckat]

WTF?

[gorckat]

Yeah...not a doc. Plain vanilla.

[gorckat]

If it is 2 scum, then we still have one lynch until lylo. Honestly I suggest just getting rid of me - there are too many questions about me and I've been way, way off this game.

If it is 3v2, it is LYLO now.

[gorckat]

Holy shit...Traitor needs a Normalized variant or two.

Radiant, what the hell is this super duper secret action/info?

I don't think you have any, at this point.

[gorckat]

A hider, perhaps?

Off-hand, not sure why you'd be the target after nhammen hung or last night.

[gorckat]

Already said it; CoolDog is probably a traitor.

Really? ARE YOU FUCKING SHITTING ME?

You are SERIOUSLY claiming that CoolDog isn't a gadfather for like THREE damn game days because he's a traitor...

AND YOU CAN"T TELL US BECAUSE IT WILL SUGGEST SCUM STRATEGY!>!>!>!>

Clarify or I don't give a shit if you get quicked.

[gorckat]

OMFG you are so full of unrealistic setup spec.

Intent: RadiantCowbells

This is a two-scum game and Radiant's claim was intended to fish all the power.

rofl. Clarify your shit.

[gorckat]

Still amused?

[gorckat]

vote: RadiantCowbells

You're whole mode yesterday was about not lynching Cooldog. Today you expect me to believe you've felt he was a traitor for days.

I hope you're scum because otherwise all I end up doing is blacklisting an idiot. If you're scum, I can forgive it all.

[gorckat]

If my vote and view of you is completely logical how are you a master for treating CD as town for multiple game days, including before LYLO?

Someone please put us out of our misery.

[gorckat]

@Kit: I apologize again for my rudeness in thread earlier this game. Thank you for seeing it to the end. It is far better than when I had stuff going on a couple years ago and I abandoned the game I was running at the time.

@Radiant: Thank god you were scum. I would have punched my blind poodle if you were town. What was your plan- lynch a "goon" and then for CD the GF?