NY175: Sycamore Scuffle

[Not_Mafia]

Hi I'm mafia

[Not_Mafia]

Not_Mafia*, I meant Not_Mafia!

[Not_Mafia]

Let's put some on this little nut for his maybe-slip: VOTE: Not-Mafia.

Now, Scarab, why exactly are you voting NM? He may be a nut, and an innocent one at that, so why be such a hardass on him? Probably capitalizing on the gaffe, eh?

FoS: Scarab

.

VOTE: Wake88

[Not_Mafia]

You vote me for my "slip" and then in your very next sentence FoS someone for doing the very same thing. You posted also fluff about balancing that could be you trying to look like you're contributing and you called pretty much everyone who posted something that was not "/confirm" scum.

[Not_Mafia]

Why is that?

[Not_Mafia]

When Salamence calls your reaction test bad, you know it's bad.

[Not_Mafia]

Of COURSE I'm going to

FoS

the other guy who's also voting you over the maybe-alt-slip.

So you normally join wagons and then immediately FoS most of the other people on it when you voted for the exact same reason as them?

I

know

I'm Town, but I don't if he is, so I want a reaction, and I certainly have gotten some. And NM's faulty post about fluff was interesting, too, because methinks it's him just being cynical and/or paranoid, which makes me think that comes from a Townie mindset.

How is paranoia a town trait and why it was faulty to call it fluff, what the set-up spec do to advance the game state?

What I did find a bit odd was his 55's last sentence, where he says I pretty much called everyone who didn't post "/confirm" Scum, which I didn't. Huh.

You did, you either voted or FoSed the majority of players who had posted since the game started

Then NM wonders why I find his post interesting, and that his paranoia raises him up a bit in my list. Which in itself is interesting. At least to me.

Again, why is paranoia a towntell?

Salamence et al should explain themselves a bit more, too. I vote NM for what looks like a gaffe, and then FoS another guy doing the same thing, to gauge reactions. You can call that bad all you want, but you'd be incorrect. It's not hypocritical in the slightest if you're trying to Scumhunt.

"I was reaction testing so nothing I do can be scummy"

Well, yeah, I'm still reaction testing.

I'm gonna milk this cow for all it's worth.

You reaction test ended the moment you called it a reaction test, so why is your vote still on me if I moved up your town list?

[Not_Mafia]

Incorrect. Every subsequent reaction is valuable. If you have not noticed already, at least two other players have questioned the responses in response to my opening post which started all this fun.

How will you moving your vote somewhere useful affect your reaction test? And please respond to the rest of my post

[Not_Mafia]

Oh missed Wake's response, please bold stuff like that or break the tags in future

[Not_Mafia]

There's colour tags when I quote but it just appears in black when I'm reading normally. Is this something in my settings?

[Not_Mafia]

Of COURSE I'm going to

FoS

the other guy who's also voting you over the maybe-alt-slip.

So you normally join wagons and then immediately FoS most of the other people on it when you voted for the exact same reason as them?

At times. Depends on my mood, and how unpredictable I feel like being.

Okay, then link me to games where you've used this type of reaction test and it's been useful

I

know

I'm Town, but I don't if he is, so I want a reaction, and I certainly have gotten some. And NM's faulty post about fluff was interesting, too, because methinks it's him just being cynical and/or paranoid, which makes me think that comes from a Townie mindset.

How is paranoia a town trait and why it was faulty to call it fluff, what the set-up spec do to advance the game state?

Paranoia's a Town trait because Scum typically knows who the Town members are. The only exception is multiball, but that's left up to the imagination.

I read utter paranoia as a Town trait because it's usually tough for Scum to perfectly mimic it when they usually know who's who. Come on, you know this.

And another thing: I don't see anything wrong with Setup speculation. Day 1 is nothing but speculation, so complaining about gameplay spec in the Day when everything's spec is, to say the least, hypocritical. Gameplay spec may not advance the game, but what sort of speculation and paranois does Day 1?

Can't remember exactly which bit you say I said was fluff. If you would please post it in its entirety.

If you think day 1 is purely speculation then why are you reaction testing? There is information day 1, wagons are information, post content is information, to say day 1 posting is irrelevant because "it's all speculation" is just disingeuous.

And I was referring to this...

Hey now, that's ridiculous Farside. 5:16 seems way too unbalanced. I'm iffy even on 4:17. I can see 4:16:1, or 3:3:15 even. And, Farside, don't be too quick to judge a book by its cover. Take some time getting to know the person first, I always say.

Also, you're now saying multiball is an exception to your paranoia thing, yet you listed multi-ball setups as your possibilities.

What I did find a bit odd was his 55's last sentence, where he says I pretty much called everyone who didn't post "/confirm" Scum, which I didn't. Huh.

You did, you either voted or FoSed the majority of players who had posted since the game started

And? You forgot to mention Boonskies, Burning_Town, and Aegor. So what if I

FoS

'd them? Forgive me, but this is Mafia, where paranoia and accusations to gain reactions is the norm. This isn't Monopoly where you try to buy each other's properties.

Blindly calling everyone scum accomplished what exactly?

Salamence et al should explain themselves a bit more, too. I vote NM for what looks like a gaffe, and then FoS another guy doing the same thing, to gauge reactions. You can call that bad all you want, but you'd be incorrect. It's not hypocritical in the slightest if you're trying to Scumhunt.

"I was reaction testing so nothing I do can be scummy"

Wrong. I NEVER said that. You did. Just because I'm reaction testing doesn't mean paranoid Townies or clever Scum can't get their take on it.

You've dismissed every criticism leveled at you by claiming reaction test. This is a fact.

[Not_Mafia]

I imagine (and hope) we won't be deadline lynching with a deadline like that

[Not_Mafia]

Wake is scum though

[Not_Mafia]

Wake is scum though

[Not_Mafia]

@skot, why are you voting aegor?

[Not_Mafia]

How about we just ignore any intent to hammer that SKOT declares instead.

[Not_Mafia]

And Not_Mafia, we can't really do that, since...well...he still has the power to hammer, lol.

He does but he's told us that they're going to be completely meaningless most of the time, all it does is draw out claims for no reason, so we just shouldn't honour them. Out side of extreme circumstances if he hammers anyway it will just be a scum claim.

PEDIT: Okay I'll try and work with you here. To me, you've completely devalued any intent you can declare in this thread, because it's not intent to hammer, it's intent to draw out a claim. I don't find having everyone run up to L-1 at any point claim helpful, so I see no reason for anyone to honour your intent . If you make some sort of distinction between you wanting a claim and an actual 'traditional' intent to hammer then I'll honour the latter, but I don't see any benefit in honouring the former.

[Not_Mafia]

And Not_Mafia, we can't really do that, since...well...he still has the power to hammer, lol.

He does but he's told us that they're going to be completely meaningless most of the time, all it does is draw out claims for no reason, so we just shouldn't honour them. Out side of extreme circumstances if he hammers anyway it will just be a scum claim.

PEDIT: Okay I'll try and work with you here. To me, you've completely devalued any intent you can declare in this thread, because it's not intent to hammer, it's intent to draw out a claim. I don't find having everyone run up to L-1 at any point claim helpful, so I see no reason for anyone to honour your intent . If you make some sort of distinction between you wanting a claim and an actual 'traditional' intent to hammer then I'll honour the latter, but I don't see any benefit in honouring the former.

[Not_Mafia]

I actually feel that Wake is town, he did help to move things out of RVS after all, even if it was at his own expense.

He got us out of RVS by being scumread so I don't see how that's relevant

[Not_Mafia]

I actually feel that Wake is town, he did help to move things out of RVS after all, even if it was at his own expense.

He got us out of RVS by being scumread so I don't see how that's relevant

You scumreading him for his playstyle isn't exactly relevant either.

~tn5421

So you've seen him do this before?

[Not_Mafia]

Incorrect. Every subsequent reaction is valuable. If you have not noticed already, at least two other players have questioned the responses in response to my opening post which started all this fun.

How will you moving your vote somewhere useful affect your reaction test? And please respond to the rest of my post

Wait, what? What are you trying to say here? As for the rest of your post you're insinuating I'm not responding to, please quote and bold it here for me to respond to. Your first sentence I just quoted doesn't seem to mesh with the bit of my post you just quoted.

You say you're keeping your vote on me despite townreading me as part of your reaction test. How does keeping your vote on me garner useful reactions and/or help your reaction test? How would moving your vote negatively affect your reaction test?

[Not_Mafia]

You say you're keeping your vote on me despite townreading me as part of your reaction test. How does keeping your vote on me garner useful reactions and/or help your reaction test? How would moving your vote negatively affect your reaction test?

...and?

I Townread you a bit for your paranoia. Don't assume I should now get my attention off of you. I'll change my vote when I want, not because someone else is freaking out with just one vote on him. I'm still getting reactions from you and others, so pardon me if I find them just a bit useful to read over. I'll my vote when I'm ready to. You've got one vote and 24 Days left, so stay calm. Be grateful I'm not deciding to now park my vote on you for the next 20 days. Now instead of flinching, how about you

be useful and question the actions and words of people who may have been agreeing with you lately?

Try looking at things from different viewpoints, I always say.

Answer the questions please.

Or I could question the person I think is scum, who is purporting to be reaction testing yet won't show anything for it.

[Not_Mafia]

I already answered your questions in that post.

I'll answer questions directed towards me, but I'm not going to waste my time with word games.

You did not answer my questions. You said you were still getting reactions to 50. I specifically asked you about you not using your vote.

You say you're keeping your vote on me despite townreading me as part of your reaction test. How does keeping your vote on me garner useful reactions and/or help your reaction test? How would moving your vote negatively affect your reaction test?

You say you are reaction testing yet when you're grilled on the usefulness and results of this, you respond with evasion and deflection.

[Not_Mafia]

It's not just that's he's keeping his vote there, it's that he's stating it is part of his reaction test, yet when asked how this garners useful reactions and what he's took from it, there's nothing.

[Not_Mafia]

I'm glad

[Not_Mafia]

My 50 intended to generate reactions. Discussion. Part of being a good Town player is to get people talking. Some may disagree with that, but it's really of little consequence in my book. Not-Mafia decided to react in 51 with a direct vote. He could have chose many different ways to respond, but he chose one. Suffice it to say it did look like an OMGUS, a retaliatory vote for being voted. Yes, NM, I voted for you over your gaffe, and I did FoS someone who did the same. Why? Reactions. I wouldn't say there was much if any fluff in my 50 either, NM; your saying that just sounds like sourness, to be frank. If you're a member of the Town, you would do well to reign in your emotions and hurt feelings when playing this game. No one's perfect, but if you can do that it'd help your gameplay in general. The reason I initially stated your paranoia raised you a bit into the Townie List is because of the way you responded in 55; upon reflection some of it feels like paranoia, and part of it just feels sour.

Ever hosted a Mafia game, and watched Town lose because players weren't being active? I find paranoia to be a Town trait because Townies don't know who's who, and the unknown creates fear, which creates paranoia. If it's one Scum team versus the Town, there is little Scum has to fear when it comes to knowledge of one's alignment. This changes a bit if there's two Scum factions, to varying degrees. I don't find setup speculation to be unhelpful fluff because people are trying to come up with answers and possibilities on what situation they're dealing with. If I were lost in a cave system with twelve other people, I'd talk a bit with them over whether there're tunnels that lead to safety, or rivers, or this, that, etc. When we don't know, we try to make educated hopefully reasonable guesses. I never said that reaction testing means nothing I do can be incorrectly perceived as Scummy, either. As stated earlier, I'm still gathering reactions, and I'll unvote you when I want to. That you think I should move my vote from you simply because I said you moved slightly up my Town list doesn't give me reason to do so. As for your 80, I have and am still getting reactions; it doesn't matter to me what you think of it so long as I continue to receive a barrage of reactions than can be read and digested.

Setup spec in the first few posts of the game is fluff and is a classic scum tactic to look like they are doing something, it's a widely recognised tell, to dismiss that as omgus is ridiculous. And, you don't think scum will be paranoid about RVS votes and wagons on them? They have the most to lose.

Not sure exactly what you meant by the multiball/paranoia/exception/possibilities bit is about. Please clarify with links. Another thing that should be mentioned, Not_Mafia, is that using the FoS doesn't mean you're calling someone Scum. It means you're watching them. That bit of fact in the wiki basically destroys part of your comments towards me.

You call paranoia a town tell but cite multiball as an exception, yet here you say the set-up is likely multiball

Hey now, that's ridiculous Farside. 5:16 seems way too unbalanced. I'm iffy even on 4:17. I can see 4:16:1, or 3:3:15 even.

And FoS literally mean Finger of Suspicion, meaning you suspect them... of being scum

You're not fully caught up yet so I'll give leeway on this until you are but after your wall I'm still no closer to understanding what exactly your reaction test was, how were you expecting town to respond? How were you expecting scum to respond?

[Not_Mafia]

The short and simple is his post 50 was awful. There was nothing subtle and it was hypocritical. Stupid comes from town. There is only 1 time I saw scum slip at the start of the game where he claimed scum at the start.

Why can't he be scum who just didn't realise his post would get him wagoned?

[Not_Mafia]

Bawgahahahaz
Have you seen scum post something blatantly obviously horribly hypocritically bad?

Now mind you I point out bad play in a game and a player knew me enough he used it as scum but what wake knows about me is probably summed up as a bitch.

But to answer your question he voted for you and fos'ed those on your wagon. Either he's a hypocrite (not a scum tell but a personal peeve of mine) he did it on purpose for reaction or he is clueless that he was being a hypocrite. None of that is scum thought process.

Well he's either reaction testing, which should become evident once he's caught up, or he lacks self-awareness about the post to the point that I don't see how it's alignment indicative.

[Not_Mafia]

Why would you claim?

[Not_Mafia]

Okay... and why did you make that choice?

[Not_Mafia]

@SKOT if you claimed because you thought there might be a doctor then what is the relevance of the gambit?

[Not_Mafia]

I feel like skot would continue trying to rationalise his claim if he were scum

[Not_Mafia]

You seem to be ignoring the fact that you completely contradict yourself in those two posts. You go from saying that Mirhawk's post is "awful" to actively defending Mirhawk's post for being "very believable".

You can consider someone's reason for scumreading someone awful but still think they sincerely believe it. Are you often this reactionary as town? Legit question here, I want links

[Not_Mafia]

posting from my phone.

placing bets

on force replace vs modkill.


btw, still following the game somewhat while V/LA.

This is also punishable.

[Not_Mafia]

Meh. Some people will say town tracker, some will just say tracker. I've probably done both at some point

[Not_Mafia]

Sadly the hostility here pales in comparison to a decent amount of other games

[Not_Mafia]

Scarab for recationary scumhunting and leading questions. Still trying to figure out Wake.

[Not_Mafia]

Yeah not liking either of those reactions, Clusk in particular

[Not_Mafia]

Aeronaut

[Not_Mafia]

Just that neither of them made the obvious connection, seems opportunistic to jump on it

[Not_Mafia]

Hey we are not letting the scums coast to victory here are we. Let's push on some of the lurkers here.

Go ahead then, no one is stopping you

[Not_Mafia]

Hunterseeker is prob scum for statements like these

I was super town just from asking that question. At least I 100% townread my self.

Hey we are not letting the scums coast to victory here are we. Let's push on some of the lurkers here.

and this contradiction

I was gonna wait til everyone confirmed to make a random vote joke about that post. Lol

Life is too short

I think you guys didn't take my serious vote seriously.

and is a good wagon once/if Wake explains himself

[Not_Mafia]

I'm up for a good old fashioned flashwagon

VOTE: HunterSeeker

If Wake flips scum remember this counterwagon and that AdrienC is a probable scumbuddy

[Not_Mafia]

What roles are typically allowed in normals btw? Is there a link that I could read? I read someone say that jesters aren't normal earlier but I just want to make sure that none of that is going on and I can actually be happy finding people scummy

Normal Game requirements

[Not_Mafia]

Are you caught up Wake?

[Not_Mafia]

Didn't mean it as an accusatory question

[Not_Mafia]

Didn't mean it as an accusatory question

Sure you didn't.

It's not like we're playing Mafia where murderous people look anywhere they can for BS reasons to lynch Townies.

No, I will play at my own pace. I don't have to read every single post in this huge game just to be caught up.

I asked because you were only talking about recent events. No reason to get offended.

Not_Mafia, what do you think of AdrienC?

Relatively null, if you flip scum I can see him being your partner

[Not_Mafia]

You're imagining an attack that isn't there, and if the immaturity and hostility is turning you off this game, then please don't contribute to it.

[Not_Mafia]

I am town and everyone else is scum

[Not_Mafia]

VOTE: Clusk

That's a scum replace out

[Not_Mafia]

It was also a selective replace out

[Not_Mafia]

@Broodking Why have you not voted?

[Not_Mafia]

The slot is on L-6, why the tentativeness? And where has anyone said or implied they want him quicklynched?

[Not_Mafia]

VOTE: Hunterseeker

Read in your next post or die

[Not_Mafia]

Reads*

Want to lynch Hunter or Clusk, Wake is also still in the mix (but less so after meta'ing him) pending the results of his "reaction test"

[Not_Mafia]

Adrien, Scarab, BP and Broodking are also good lynches but prefer the above

[Not_Mafia]

HS is a good vig choice

[Not_Mafia]

VOTE: Clusk

[Not_Mafia]

VOTE: Hunterseeker

[Not_Mafia]

So Wake what were the results of your reaction test and why would we wifom a pair of very standard n1 kills?

[Not_Mafia]

How do you know the number of scum?

[Not_Mafia]

Okay fiiiine. I really wish Cabd had been odd night to shoot down HS.

VOTE: Adrien

[Not_Mafia]

Okay HS is a troll

[Not_Mafia]

Why do you keeep saying blue HS?

PEDIT: Aeronaut, try to read the subtext. And no I'm not telling you what I mean.

[Not_Mafia]

That sounds abrupt reading it back but meh

[Not_Mafia]

Using your brain and your fingers isn't, Juls.

Look at his posts, and post in 4 sentences exactly why you find Adrien Scummy.

Is that too difficult?

I don't have the patience to respond to everything else right now but you're just going to drive people to replace out with haughty posts like these. It is not the onus of everyone else to regurgitate things and do your work for you if you're not going to read the game.

[Not_Mafia]

They do when your haughty attitude and behaviour and lines of inquiry are so transparently and thoroughly ridiculous and obtuse that all it is achieving is irritating the player list and inducing apathy. What you are doing is not effective scumhunting and if I didn't have a policy of not replacing out of games unless IRL circumstances make it impossible for me to play I'd probably have bailed by now. Unfortunately it doesn't seem like you have any intention of accepting any criticism and attempting to improve but I hope that after I've slept, either you'll have stopped this or my desire to policy lynch will have faded but right now the game simply cannot move forward with you acting like this.

[Not_Mafia]

They do when your haughty attitude and behaviour and lines of inquiry are so transparently and thoroughly ridiculous and obtuse that all it is achieving is irritating the player list and inducing apathy. What you are doing is not effective scumhunting and if I didn't have a policy of not replacing out of games unless IRL circumstances make it impossible for me to play I'd probably have bailed by now. Unfortunately it doesn't seem like you have any intention of accepting any criticism and attempting to improve but I hope that after I've slept, either you'll have stopped this or my desire to policy lynch will have faded but right now the game simply cannot move forward with you acting like this.

[Not_Mafia]

Of the Troll Trifecta (If you have to ask, it's probably you), I think HS is the most likely to flip scum, I don't think his slip was necessarily a slip but I think he looks independently scummier than the other two.

Boonskies' push on Alina is terrible and self contradictory, but somehow it doesn't feel scummy to me, just... terrible and self contradictory

Alina has a point with the speed of the wagon but I still think he's most likely scum of the viable lynches today. So far I would call this day counter productive and it's going to remain that way as long certain users are still here to clog up the thread and create drama.

VOTE: Hunterseeker

This is L-1

[Not_Mafia]

I can get behind a Damon wagon. His iso is almost entirely stereotypically townie stuf with little to no analysis

A hunter lynch would be utility lynch for me abd if we're going down the policy/utility road I'd rather lynch the person who is actively damaging the game (not Damon)

VOTE: Damon

[Not_Mafia]

Lol, I told you guys boon was scum. Spamming the pages with nonsense to derail discussion. Also, I don't think he would be NK till N3, because we lost our even-night vig.
VOTE: Boonskies

I'd like a full reads list from you

[Not_Mafia]

I'd really love to be a 7-shot dayvig or something right now

[Not_Mafia]

Is there anyone else here from EpicMafia that can confirm this? Not that I don't trust you Juls, (I don't trust anybody), but I'd like to hear more about that pro of lynching Hunter.

I don't play on Epic Mafia but I do play a relatively similar variant of server mafia and what Juls is saying makes sense

[Not_Mafia]

But wagons are fun

[Not_Mafia]

It's blatantly obvious neither of those were vig kills, and even if they are, a vig who would make either of those kills n1 is negative utility to the point that they may as well be an SK.

[Not_Mafia]

Why are we even voting DG? He did not even

check

his role PM, so there is no way to portray this as scum lurking (or town lurking, for that matter).

Vote HS. GOGOGOGOGOGOGO

According to Alina he has been online, meaning he has actively ignored his daystart pm. I also don't like his posts as I mentioned earlier

[Not_Mafia]

Lynch all flakers

[Not_Mafia]

Did she?

[Not_Mafia]

Currently I think you are troll town

[Not_Mafia]

VOTE: HunterSeeker

[Not_Mafia]

Epic Mafia

[Not_Mafia]

Lynch all flakers

[Not_Mafia]

Get lunched

[Not_Mafia]

Cabd must have towned the fuck out of that slot then

Sala was a relatively universal townread, iirc it was only Adrien and Wake who suspected him

[Not_Mafia]

This lynch is inevitable. Let's save our lovely mod the trouble of replacing this slot, having it lynched, then having to get another one for Scarab when he is clearly having trouble getting people willing to replace.

[Not_Mafia]

Stagnation is bad for games. This is stagnation

[Not_Mafia]

Again. It is a basic expectation that you read a game you have been in since the beginning and it is not the onus of other to do your work for you. And this pointless hostility is exactly the kind of apathy inducing thing that we do not need in a stagnating game.

[Not_Mafia]

And even if Aegor is scum, it's not because of this.

[Not_Mafia]

I wasn't referring to you about the hostility Aero, you're fine in that regard, should have been more clear.

[Not_Mafia]

VOTE: Adrien

[Not_Mafia]

Those kills could have been for any number of reasons, could be multiball with wolves, could be a backup even night vig, could be SK. This discussion won't go anywhere.

[Not_Mafia]

Those kills could have been for any number of reasons, could be multiball with wolves, could be a backup even night vig, could be SK. This discussion won't go anywhere.

[Not_Mafia]

For whatever reason, when I opened the page and Aeronaut had changed his avatar back. It made me jump.

[Not_Mafia]

There were a few of us pushing through that lynch

[Not_Mafia]

If you really really felt that way you would have been doing something towards at the end of day 2

[Not_Mafia]

Nothing was happening, nothing was going to happen. We didn't need a pointless stallfest. We don't have to use all the time in each instance

[Not_Mafia]

Evidently the mod has been having trouble finding replacements since one slot nearly had to be modkilled.

And if you wanted a change in the game, you had every power to bring about that change yourself.

[Not_Mafia]

A) The odd night breadcrumb is shaky at best
B) He's the person most likely to be lynched coming in to today

And why do you keep assuming odd night vig when neither of those n1 kills were pro-town at all?

[Not_Mafia]

I think it's reasonable that there's an Odd-Night Vig, because an Even-Night Vig died. That in no way means there is, but probable. Regardless of one's stance on pro-Town kills, there may very well be an Odd-Night Vig, and I suspect we're looking at multiball.

Why does even-night vig automagically imply an odd night vig? Do you honestly see a vig making either of those kills? If you think it's mutiball now then why were there not 3 kills N1?

Were there any other PR claims? The reason I ask is because, if there were, why didn't Scum target them?

SKOT claimed tracker D1 then it became even night tracker D2. He tracked me last night to nowhere

An Odd-Night Town Commuter would seem like a threat for Scum on those Nights.

Not when the alleged odd night commuter is lynchbait

Whether both of them are Town, Scum, or a mix of either is a good question.

How is this a useful discussion and how will it be anything but pure guesswork?

[Not_Mafia]

Adrien or Aeronaut

[Not_Mafia]

Adrien for his bad claim and abject refusal to respond to the case on him.

Aeronaut for whiteknighting the HS lynch. also didn't like his reaction just now or to Reinoe's "reaction test" thing

[Not_Mafia]

Your slot looks bad as well though TheWayItEnds

PEDIT: Arguably but I think you're town and it was still bad, Clusk's flip is irrelevant

[Not_Mafia]

Pretty much everything he did was reactionary

[Not_Mafia]

Nah my vote is on Adrien for as long as he refuses to respond to the case on him

[Not_Mafia]

I forgot how little pressure you need to flail

VOTE: TheWayItEnds

This was my biggest read day 1 and replacement could do with some pressure.

[Not_Mafia]

And I'm very confused with your super town reads on BP, Aero, and Burning Town.

Why are the BP and Burning ones confusing?

[Not_Mafia]

I think they've posted enough to develop a read on. Why do you find Burning Town scummy?

[Not_Mafia]

I think it's reasonable that there's an Odd-Night Vig, because an Even-Night Vig died. That in no way means there is, but probable. Regardless of one's stance on pro-Town kills, there may very well be an Odd-Night Vig, and I suspect we're looking at multiball.

Why do you refuse to read my posts?

@everyone:

At this point, does anyone else feel like Wake has something nefarious to gain by getting other people to believe there are two vigs? I really cannot understand his factually untenable and weird push for the two-vig theory, which has never made any sense. Now he has started ignoring posts that explain why his theory makes no sense

while continuing to peddle it upon on us

.

Let's lynch Boonskiies, guys.

Boonskiies is not getting lynched. I will not allow the lynch to go through. Please turn your attention elsewhere.

BP
Wake
Burning_TowN

Explain all three of these, please. With reference to specific posts. If they are that town to you, I want something more concrete than "feel" or "posting style is town" or some such nonsense.

Also, I want to know because those three are the closest I have to scumreads at the moment.

And I'm very confused with your super town reads on BP, Aero, and Burning Town.

Why are the BP and Burning ones confusing?

Explain why they are town, specifically.

About Wake. I had the same thought as Mirhawk but didn't want to say it. If he odd night vig and made eother of those kills I'd PL him as vigs are usually antitown and he'd probably make another omgus kill like Juls or something. I read his other games and my "how can this come from town?" Read disapaited and he's displaying exactly the kind of arrogance and indignation he does as town and I don't think he's capable of faking it. He's not a lynch I'd do anything to prevent though.

About BP and BT, I'm relatively meh on both but I wanted to know why he found those amazingly confusing townreads. I can see both.

And Wake. With all your lecturing and grandstanding about working with town and questioning could ypu please start actually responding to our posts. Y9ur setup spec is pointless and pure guesswork. I don't see what you expect to gain from it

[Not_Mafia]

I think it's reasonable that there's an Odd-Night Vig, because an Even-Night Vig died. That in no way means there is, but probable. Regardless of one's stance on pro-Town kills, there may very well be an Odd-Night Vig, and I suspect we're looking at multiball.

Why does even-night vig automagically imply an odd night vig? Do you honestly see a vig making either of those kills? If you think it's mutiball now then why were there not 3 kills N1?

Were there any other PR claims? The reason I ask is because, if there were, why didn't Scum target them?

SKOT claimed tracker D1 then it became even night tracker D2. He tracked me last night to nowhere

An Odd-Night Town Commuter would seem like a threat for Scum on those Nights.

Not when the alleged odd night commuter is lynchbait

Whether both of them are Town, Scum, or a mix of either is a good question.

How is this a useful discussion and how will it be anything but pure guesswork?

There's a link to a post Aegor wants you to respond to in my post directed. No more excuses for 'missing' these posts

[Not_Mafia]

Directed at him*. The post which happens to be directly above yours

[Not_Mafia]

I'm phoneposting but ctrl+f commuter in Adrien's iso and look early in Jul's iso and Alina late day 2

[Not_Mafia]

What what purpose does your set-up spec serve and how is it anything but pure guesswork? This has been asked of you or pointed out at least 5 times now

[Not_Mafia]

And all those times where you told us to assume an odd night vig?

And please answer the question, do you see a vig ever making either of those kills night 1? And do you think they were pro-town kills?

And please also answer the question in #1986

Why do you call everyone in sight bad town or VI or scum for refusing to engage you and answer your questioning. Then when people do, criticise them anyway and refuse to respond to their questioning?

[Not_Mafia]

———✹

Why does it bother you that I'm wondering about the deaths and Setup?

Because it's pointless noise that doesn't achieve anything

———✹

Only once did I say we should assume there's an Odd-Night Vig and multiball at play, because it's wise. If there were more times, then please point them out.

Twice. But I'll concede this point.

———✹

Assuming there's an Odd-Night Vig, which is possible, I can't say for sure what was on his or her mind. That person may not share your same views on the game.

Please just answer my questions

———✹

I'm trying to sort things out by sharing my thoughts on the Setup and the role possibilities. Because I want to understand what's at play in this game, you're damned right I'm going to wonder aloud. Who do you think you are trying to stop me? Back off and stop trying to stop people from questioning things. If you don't like me questioning things, then you're either being a stubborn obstacle, or you're Scum.

Again, what does it achieve and how will you progress this beyond pure guesswork?

———✹

And don't you

dare

use hyperbole with me, N_M. You saying I "call everyone in sight bad town or VI or scum for refusing to engage you and answer your questioning" is a downright lie. You should speak for yourself, seeing that you ask some people questions, and then shoot them down when they actually share their ideas. You pester me for my thoughts, then try to find excuses or reasons to downplay my thoughts, while also using hyperbole or taking my posts out of context. Hey, why are you doing that, N-M? Why are you not being honest with my posts?

———✹

If you're Town, you'd better start keeping my posts in context. Each and every time you use hyperbole, or manipulate the context, or try and paint my post as something else, you give me a damned good platform to call you out on it. How do you like those apples, N_M?

Stop being dishonest with my posts.

This is a waste of mine and everyone else's time now, you're completely incorrigible and willfully blind to any criticism. I don't even know why I let myself get in to this in the first place

[Not_Mafia]

1) I don't care if you think it's noise. The game doesn't revolve around you and what you find acceptable.

As if I'm the only person saying this

[Not_Mafia]

Hi. I am sheeping and wagoning.

VOTE: SKOT

More seriously, SKOT case was really good, more of that please Adrien.

[Not_Mafia]

Damon Gant

[Not_Mafia]

They look like scum aiming for x fire to me

[Not_Mafia]

I think it's multiball and both scumteams were aiming to hit the other.

[Not_Mafia]

Lol

[Not_Mafia]

What if SKOT flips scum?

[Not_Mafia]

Let's play twilight hangman

Film

_ _ _/_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _/_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

[Not_Mafia]

Let's play twilight hangman

Film

_ _ _/_ H A _ _ H A _ _/_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

BP: 2 points
Adrien: 2 Points

A correct letter is worth 1 point per letter and a correct guess is worth 5

[Not_Mafia]

Let's play Twilight Hangman

Film

T _ _/_ H A _ _ H A _ _/_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

BP: 2 points
Adrien: 2 Points
TheWayItEnds: 1 Point

A correct letter is worth 1 point per letter and a correct guess is worth 5

[Not_Mafia]

Let's play Twilight Hangman

Film

T H _/_ H A _ _ H A _ _/_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

BP:

3 points

Adrien:

2 Points

TheWayItEnds:

1 Point

A correct letter is worth 1 point per letter and a correct guess is worth 5

[Not_Mafia]

Thanks to Toomai for hosting?

What do you mean tn?

[Not_Mafia]

The first one isn't a question

[Not_Mafia]

A green Salamence?

I think you need to scrub your screen

[Not_Mafia]

Then you need to throw it away

[Not_Mafia]

So, those kills, why?

[Not_Mafia]

Making such anti-town kills that no one though there could be an odd night vig isn't something to brag about. You actually have/had some goodwill for lynching Adrien in the end, don't shit all over it. Just accept the criticism and explain your choices, people can at least then say "I disagree but I guess I can see where you're coming from", lashing out at everyone doesn't help anyone, especially yourself. I usually avoid postgame drama and I'm not saying this for my benefit, this and the WotC thread should tell you you need to take criticism better if you don't want to get shut out of more and more games.

[Not_Mafia]

As vig you should either not be shooting or be making kills that benefit town as a whole, not just killing people you have beef with or your pet reads. Hunterseeker was the obvious vig choice n1, if we had him gone n1 we might have gotten a scum lynch d2 instead of a really low info town lynch. It's a team game