Open 588 Pick Your Poison -- Game Over

[House]

VOTE: acryon

Choo choo!

[House]

Okay someone who is not Drezi, Victor, or croboss give me a good town reason to build a half lynch wagon on the first page.
I can see how scum can benefit from such actions but hard to find a reason for me join in.

Then don't.

Just watch what happens and analyze.

Duh.

[House]

Do you think people will townread you for asking dumb questions?

[House]

VOTE: pisskop

Not so much.

[House]

I don't know, I've seen scum vote scum plenty of times in rvs.

Not in a way that draws unnecessary attention right out the gate, I'd wager.

[House]

Okay someone who is not Drezi, Victor, or croboss give me a good town reason to build a half lynch wagon on the first page.
I can see how scum can benefit from such actions but hard to find a reason for me join in.

What do you all think of this post? It feels like dropping by only to say "hi, im not scum".

usually a quickbuilt wagon lacks a good case with valid reasons attached to the votes, thus not only can scums lynch town but vote analysis post flip would give little clues as to which of them were opportunistic scums

+ taking the chance to contribute to a non-existant case.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: deathfisaro

You're jumping on the easy read.

Easy reads are often wrong reads.

[House]

You're jumping on the easy read.

Easy reads are often wrong reads.

Yes, but, early on in the game, when we don't have a lot to go on, shouldn't people be pressuring the easy reads to what comes of them?

I don't like this post, I really don't like this post. Someone who has played as many games as you have House should know this, so why try to dissuade Drezi here?

VOTE: House

Because, as I stated, easy reads are often the wrong reads.

When you see scummy shit right off the bat, 9 times out of 10, it's coming from town. Scum are too busy being careful and trying to blend in. For scum to slip this hard right out the gate, they'd have to be pretty stupid.

Do you always assume your adversary is an idiot? Because if so, you're simply projecting.

[House]

Not sure if House is actually a 'jerk', role playing a jerk, or pretending to be a jerk. :\

We can ask questions, which elicit responses. Its just this forum seems to frown upon that sort of proactiveness.

It's a simple task to ISO me and get that answer for yourself.

[House]

ISO = meta dive.

[House]

I don't get this. Why do you think any of that makes House scum?

To me it feels like House is trying to talk Drezi out of voting for deathfisario. While I don't necessarily buy Drezi's case in 51, I also don't feel like there's any reason to say "nope, you're wrong, and you should change your vote" which is what it feels like House is saying.

Yeah, because Depi is so likely to be lynched this early in D1 that I'm scared my scum buddy is about to be lynched.

That

totally

makes sense.

[House]

I don't get this. Why do you think any of that makes House scum?

To me it feels like House is trying to talk Drezi out of voting for deathfisario. While I don't necessarily buy Drezi's case in 51, I also don't feel like there's any reason to say "nope, you're wrong, and you should change your vote" which is what it feels like House is saying.

Yeah, because Depi is so likely to be lynched this early in D1 that I'm scared my scum buddy is about to be lynched.

That

totally

makes sense.

Who is Depi? Do you mean Drezi?

No, we're discussing deathfisaro. Depi is his preferred nickname.

[House]

@deathfisaro
Why would a vig shoot two times right in the first night? Crazy talk.

3 deaths in 1 day because
1 mislynch D1
1 scum shoot town N1
1 Vig shoot town N1

D2 opens
7-3 = 4 town
3-0 = 3 scum
Welcome to LyLo. Vig can't shoot twice in a night. Can only shoot up to twice over minimum two nights.

First part: okay, I am sorry, I misunderstood you.
Second part: you forgot about the 3 PRs. There's 10 town players, not 7.

IRT second part: This could be a townslip.

[House]

The even number of people suggests that you don't play 'basic games'. And that leads me to wonder where you came; I would imagine a quick-mafia site.
-How much mafia have you played total?

Not sure if House is actually a 'jerk', role playing a jerk, or pretending to be a jerk. :\

We can ask questions, which elicit responses. Its just this forum seems to frown upon that sort of proactiveness.

It's a simple task to ISO me and get that answer for yourself.

A quick glance would suggest a light witty humor, and that was as scum.

An actual look would give you the true answer, but if you're scum I'm sure you have no interest in actually getting to that answer.

[House]

I like SIR CYANIDE's read on Riabi.

He can be town for now.

[House]

VOTE: Lalendra

She seems to know there is an IC and is trying to push Cyanide based on her knowledge.

[House]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Sir Cyanie

The last bit is obviously meant to be:

I don't like House's vote in 93. Ton's of people have been speculating and I don't see why Lal should be singled out.

Scumread me for it all you want. I have good reason for that vote and I'm sticking to it.

[House]

There's no direct impact but I think we should devote some posts to discuss what optimal IC strategy is. The IC may not directly know what his/her optimal play is, so I feel we should discuss the protocol for the IC's claim. Why are people against this?

This is ridiculous. It's not like the IC has any actual abilities outside of becoming confirmed town.

The strategy for IC is pants-shittingly obvious. Play a town game and don't claim unless run up, because an IC is instant NK bait & nothing more than a named townie once outed.

You harping on about something so simplistic makes me think you're just trying to look invested without actually being productive at all.

[House]

The strategy for IC is pants-shittingly obvious.

Not really. When you're IC, you're at L-1 and someone has the intent to hammer and asks you to claim, what do you do? There are multiple things you can do. Without the discussion I'm trying to incite, this is how it will likely go down:

Hammerer: claim
IC: I'm IC
Hammerer: pm to mods so we know you are IC
Wagonners: yeah go pm the mod
IC: alright
Mod: IC is IC
Hammerer: well I'll be damned
Wagonners: unvote: IC, vote: other person
~~
IT IS NOW NIGHT 1

IC has been found dead
~~



-------------------------


Now it doesn't have to be like this. It can also be like this:

Hammerer: claim
IC: I'm IC
Hammerer: pm to mods so we know you are IC
Wagonners: yeah go pm the mods
IC: no, I'll do it first thing next day
Hammerer: no, you have to pm the mod or you're getting a hammer
IC: I'll do it the first thing next day, we're not in LyLo, if I don't do it the next day you can still lynch me, blahblahblah
Hammerer&Wagonners: *more discussion ensues*
Wagonners: unvote: IC
~~
IT IS NOW NIGHT 1

IC, who was not actually IC but vanilla town, has been found dead
~~

Gratz, we got +value. The issue here is if the

real

IC would have counterclaimed. Then the 'IC' in this example could have been scum, gone down and gotten a PR with him. It may seem silly to counterclaim, but if the fake IC pulls something like I just described in example 2, people may play incorrectly and counterclaim him just to get the lynch in. I've seen lots of stupid shit in my mafia career. This is one of those games where we actually have a fair amount of information (compared to other mafia games) and I think we should use that information to the best of our ability, this includes some probability work and speculation about mafia tendencies and what we should do if situation [x] or [y] arises.

On the one hand, that's actually not terrible.

On the other, you could have simply posted it in the first place without fishing. I'd have felt better about your slot if you had.

[House]

Hammerer: claim
IC: I'm IC
Hammerer: pm to mods so we know you are IC
Wagonners: yeah go pm the mods
IC: no, I'll do it first thing next day
Hammerer: no, you have to pm the mod or you're getting a hammer
IC: I'll do it the first thing next day, we're not in LyLo, if I don't do it the next day you can still lynch me, blahblahblah
Hammerer&Wagonners: *more discussion ensues*
Wagonners: unvote: IC

Wagonners: vote Player2 (L-1)
Player2: actually I'm IC
...
Player3: no, actually I'm IC

Back to square one.

OR

NL
random townie (not ic claim) found dead.
Lynch IC claim, when he can't confirm.
Repeat.

And imagine this situation when we don't even have an IC. Scum knows if that's the case.

Where's the +value?

You clearly don't know how IC works.

[House]

You clearly don't know how IC works.

You clearly don't understand what I'm saying.

No, I totally understand what you're saying.

Fact of the matter is, there's never any reason to counterclaim an IC. The mod not confirming an IC is proof of fakeclaim.

Your theory is invalid.

[House]

... resisting... urge... to vote... stupid.

[House]

It makes no difference, if one can be spared because of an IC claim without actually proving it, then why would anyone go down willingly?

Stop posting stupidity or I WILL vote you.

[House]

Also mod claims the IC. People fakeclaiming and counterclaiming IC is ridiculous. If you fake it as VT and you get busted by real IC, you go down and that's super anti-town + proscum.

Now you're posting stupidity too?

The real IC would not have to counterclaim a fake IC. The mod provides the counter by refusing to confirm the fakeclaim.

[House]

I don't know why you have to milk value out of IC. A town will get shot every night. If IC gets shot N1, other 2 PRs can safely do their night actions. If I were IC, I'd just ROFLclaim right out of gate and draw the nightkill so that other more scary (from scum POV) town PRs can do their night actions safely. If the other 2 PR are Cop and Vig, then some value has been lost but that's still better than staying silent and risking a JK/Tracker/Cop get shot at 2/N-4 chance which is quite a bit higher than town PRs chance of successful night action landing. AFAIK, if Vig gets shot and Vig shot someone, both will die. But that's just me, turning IC into a sacrificial lamb instead.

Fish harder.

VOTE: deathfisaro

[House]

Sorry for triple posting but I'm on the verge of voting Sir Cyanide for his laughable scenarios in his theorycrafting, trying to mimic me in not knowing how many town are in this game when he previously stated that this is a 13 player game himself, and wasting all these days worth of discussion (wasting time = giving IC and mod less time for IC PR to work and people to respond). We're not super-close to deadline so that was the saving grace.

And this post is all kinds of tryhard.

Depi needs to eat rope.

[House]

Oh wait it takes 7 to lynch, so it's still like L-3. Never mind still haven't got the whole 13 player game embedded in my brain.

Push that fake ass townslip more.

Depi is scum and I has a sad.

[House]

You're breadcrumbing yourself fakeclaiming IC, so I'd gladly push you to 6 votes to get that out of the way if that's what it takes to catch scum.

And from what I read, both Drezi and House are actually disagreeing with your theorycraft. What they are saying is, there is no need for IC to counterclaim, because mod does the confirmation for the IC and if a fakeclaimer can't get that post out of a mod, that's enough evidence of a fakeclaim.
While I disagree that IC should hold off mod confirmation (!= claim) because I'd personally play IC as a sacrificial lamb to let the other 2 guaranteed existing night acting town PRs to do their job, doesn't mean I agree with you at all.

On the other hand you misrep multiple people to throw the idea that real IC shouldn't counterclaim to setup your fakeclaiming IC. That's hella scummy and you say I'm opportunistic.

Shitposting.

[House]

Okay if people are so experienced and good at this game, tell me why IC getting confirmed D1 and eating NK is bad. If Tracker/JK/Cop eats NK, the information they could have gotten is lost. And look at 135 for how much more likely scum will be able to shoot PR than PR night action landing. I don't know why you'd risk trading 1~2 conf town + 1 conf scum with 1 conf town. I posted this idea more than once and you keep avoiding it.
You're being overly obsessed with IC when there's no reason to. I'm sorry if there's IC in this game that I find IC the most disposable PR out of all 5.

pedit: You list people for not contributing, but your existence hasn't benefited me at all at finding scum besides making yourself look bad.

Wow, rolefishing like a champ, depi!

[House]

I think SIR CYANIDE's contributions have helped tremendously.

I've found scum. Cyanide can be town when you flip red.

[House]

@SC
I'm not totally against theorycrafting, it's just you spent 3 pages to state the obvious

@House
You scumread me when I'm town. I scumread you when you're town. We have zero chemistry together (unless you're scum this game looking for an easy target). Hope next time we meet, we are of opposite alignment so both of us feel good voting each other =P
So if I flip green, does that make Cyanide red? Then my "shitposting" was actually scumhunting.

No, because I'm not reeding you based on his posts, or him based on yours.

You're scum because you're making scummy posts.

Rolefishing. Misrepping. Opportunistic voting.

You're scum, period.

[House]

Multiple White Knights. Does this make me a Disney Princess?

I won't lie... this post made me laugh.

[House]

It makes no difference, if one can be spared because of an IC claim without actually proving it, then why would anyone go down willingly?

Stop posting stupidity or I WILL vote you.

...

I did not necessarily recommend people claiming IC, I just recommended people not counterclaiming IC.

He wanted to make sure, that real IC does not counterclaim. That is correct, noone is arguing that.

What I demonstrated in my examples, is that there's no value to be gain from letting an IC claim pass for a day without proof like Cyanide has shown in his examples,

the one and only answer to the IC claim is "prove it right now, or get rekt"

so the real IC will have no reed to counterclaim in order to get the lynch through anyway.

You pointed out an obvious fact?

GO YOU!

What I took from Cyanide's use of the word day was r/l day, not game Day.

By holding off on confirming for one real life day, it allows for observation of movement on the wagon, and analysis of said movement, as well as posturing both on and off the wagon.

His remarks had intelligence behind them. Yours consisted of

NUH-UH!

You're not as smart as you think you are, so do us all a favor and stop acting like a condescending jerk (or I WILL vote you ), this game is meant to be recreational and fun.

[House]

For the love of all that is good, can we stop talking about the setup? If scum hasn't figured out who the PRs are already, then they will if people don't shut up.

I don't see scum!acryon making this post.

He'd be too conscious of the fact that scum

decides

what the setup is.

[House]

@acryon That's all you can say about the last 8 pages?

Your weak doubtcasting in this post & post 186 in general makes me want to

VOTE: Count Dooku

[House]

Of those voting me, croboss is by far the scummiest.

All that ad hom to try to force my wagon reeks.

[House]

@acryon That's all you can say about the last 8 pages?

Your weak doubtcasting in this post & post 186 in general makes me want to

VOTE: Count Dooku

Oh House, it was a pretty good reasoning, I nearly bought it. (sarcasm)

Yeah, I'm trying to avoid outing my daycop guilty on you because I don't want scum to NK me.

[House]

About this IC counterclaim-fakeclaim thing:
@SIR CN^- (that is a - in the top right index). Maybe I am just too stupid, but I don't understand you. You say that an IC shouldn't counterclaim, so the IC won't get NKed. But then a scum at L-1 can claim IC too. Please show me where did I make a mistake, what did I miss! (I think I just cannot see something obvious, but I don't know what is that, so please tell me)

If you don't want to talk about IC anymore, just ignore it.

What a silly thing to tell yourself.

[House]

What the hell are you two doing? This isn't content.

Neither was that, and yours is even worse.

[House]

I don't think he's that condescending IRL, it's just part of the online persona.

Time out... were you at TitusMeet?

[House]

It was just to convince house that there was more to IC than he thought. The actual examples are meaningless.

It was a wasted post.

[House]

Seems legit.

[House]

Nothing here is actually rolefishing, just speculating like a ton of people are doing. But House seems to want on the Deathfisaro wagon.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: House

This is a shitty reason to jump on a wagon.

Disagreeing with someone doesn't make the other person scum. Does kinda make you look scummy for the reach, though.

[House]

My vote stays where it is right now, because I've not seen anything I found necessarily town from House. That said, House does make a good point in 233. FOS on Victor because I agree with House.

Let me give you an inside track.

You're wrong about me. I'm not wrong about Victor.

Vote him instead.

[House]

Let me give you an inside track.

You're wrong about me. I'm not wrong about Victor.

Vote him instead.

I gotta be honest, this doesn't really make me feel any better about you. Now it feels like you're trying to jump up and down, wave your arms around and scream "LOOK! SEE! I'M TOWN!!" If you were confident in your town status, it seems odd that you would be so explicit about it, especially this early.

I can be as scummy as I want to be, actually.

There's nothing that you or anyone else can do about it.

[House]

I also find it interesting that you seem to have completely ignored the question I asked you, House.

I love how people whine about me ignoring shit when the fact is I'm just missing posts.

What do you want to know?

[House]

You read the post, I know this because you commented on it. What I asked was:

I'm curious about what people think of Lalendra's play. Specifically Dooku, House and NJAC. I know she states that it's common for her posts to contain a lot of WIFOM, but, am I the only one who sees this as scummy?

Eh, your question is too generic.

I'm still deciding.

[House]

I can be as scummy as I want to be, actually.

Is this an admission of scumminess?

You can call it whatever you want to call it.

I call it a statement of the fact that you're not going to lynch me today regardless of what I do.

[House]

I can be as scummy as I want to be, actually.

Is this an admission of scumminess?

This post reads like scum, btw.

If Riabi was town, he'd suspect if I was admitting to being scum. But he knows I'm not scum, so he's asking if I'm admitting to being scummy.

VOTE: Riabi

[House]

I don't agrre with 41. Why didn't I state it right then? Becasue somebody (I think SC) already told her why would a quickhammer be good for the town: the quickhammer is a scumclaim. And 1 townie for 1 scum is a good exchange.

Not always. It depends not only on the two roles involved, but also the two players.

[House]

Wait... what? I *DO* think you're scum, that's why I'm voting you.

To answer Cynide's post, my reasons for the above are that in post 52,

1

I felt like he was trying to talk Drezi out of voting for deathfisario. That feels like buddying.

2

Now, more recently, 235 is just odd. As I said, it feels like he's trying to convince everyone that he's town, and it seem odd that someone who actually *IS* town would feel the need to do that.

3

Then his OMGUS vote in 251 sort of seals the deal for me.

1) Talking somebody out of voting for someone else isn't buddying, it's white knighting. Get your buzz words right.
2) How is telling somebody that I am town without giving any sort of town case an attempt to convince them I'm town? That shit happens all the time across all the games from many different players. This is reachy as fuck.
3) Learn what OMGUS means. A vote with a case is not OMGUS.

[House]

It's your job to prove why I should lynch him, not mine to prove why we shouldn't (especially when my view is "I don't think he's scum" which is different from "I think he's town").

This is my stance on Croboss, atm. He's done things that I would call scummy in other people,

-like only voting for people with a wagon
-Fail to give out reads or show involvement, and justifying his failure via 'I'm bad' or 'The burden doesn't fall upon me to be town'
-Discusses theory in an oddly blunt and undetailed fashion.

. .Its as if he is mature (older than a kid) and intelligent enough to grasp the basic theories, but doesn't quite get the social aspect of the game. This is a game of logic, but also about the minds of others. Its literally half a popularity contest.

I've seen newbscum do this before, which is why I'm concerned.

So why isn't your vote on him?

[House]

I can be as scummy as I want to be, actually.

Is this an admission of scumminess?

What did you mean when you said this? If you were going to be translated for somebody who had never played mafia before, what would you say

Is my meaning so hard to understand? I'm asking him if he's admitting to being scum.

No you're not. You're asking if I'm admitting to being scummy.

Duh, of course I am. Doesn't make me scum.

[House]

No you're not. You're asking if I'm admitting to being scummy.

Duh, of course I am. Doesn't make me scum.

No, I was asking you if you were admitting to being scum. But, for the sake of argument, why would someone who is town be scummy? Wouldn't that be playing against one's win condition?

Not always, and I'm not going to point out why because that

would

be playing against my win condition.

if you're town, move the fuck along.

[House]

Nothing here is actually rolefishing, just speculating like a ton of people are doing. But House seems to want on the Deathfisaro wagon.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: House

This is a shitty reason to jump on a wagon.

Disagreeing with someone doesn't make the other person scum. Does kinda make you look scummy for the reach, though.

It's not the only reason I'm voting you. I'm one good reason to vote you though. Scum are likely to take a post with no rolefishing, claim it was rolefishing and then try and get a wagon going off it. Town... not so much.

So you say that's not the reason you vote me, then reword your argument that says the exact same thing and doesn't invalidate my argument on you at all.

Yeah... lynch this.

VOTE: Victor

[House]

I literally at the point where I was yesterday, where I have stopped wanted to read this game. If that was the plan, then good job.

I'm bored now, and it's late. Next time I'm on someone remind me to read pages 9-???. Night.

How about you either play the game and stop whining like a little bitch or replace out? Nobody's forcing you to play this game.

I think I love you.

[House]

I'm really going to have to do some research and see if that kind of talk tends to come from a scumie or townie.

Since I came back to this site, I've seen that kind of line at least 8 times now.

Yeah, this is super forced.

VOTE: pisskop

[House]

I'm really going to have to do some research and see if that kind of talk tends to come from a scumie or townie.

Since I came back to this site, I've seen that kind of line at least 8 times now.

Yeah, this is super forced.

VOTE: pisskop

Would you say your playstyle is relatively consistent?

Of course not.

[House]

This makes me feel icky. Why next time you meet? Why couldn’t you be of opposite alignments this game? It’s almost like you know who your teammates are or something…

This is a nice catch, you know? Maybe even a scumslip. It's worth pursuing. When we finish with croboss, let's vote fisaro. Alright?

This pings.

[House]

This makes me feel icky. Why next time you meet? Why couldn’t you be of opposite alignments this game? It’s almost like you know who your teammates are or something…

This is a nice catch, you know? Maybe even a scumslip. It's worth pursuing. When we finish with croboss, let's vote fisaro. Alright?

This pings.

It does read disingenuous, but I think I agree with the sentiment. I

hate

going after "scumslips", but that one does look like it actually could be.

Are you actually defending NJAC?

*paranoid*

[House]

pisskop & Count Dooku scumteam.

Check.

[House]

Oh look, scum is voting acryon.

[House]

Lots of posts but nothing really convinced me. I'm cool for killing off rach as well btw, lurking yourself to D2 seems like a good scum strategy and she's executing it successfully atm.

Croboss needs to die ASAP.

My suspicion of Victor remains unchanged. Same goes for deathfisario but hey if you don't post there's little that can change mhm?

House seems fairly town, especially so in his last few posts.

Drezi was pretty much null but I'm getting more suspicious of him actually. He seems very articulate and his posts seem well thought-out but he's voting for dooku without much of an argument and seemingly very little thought behind it. He's just observing the debate and then casually injecting some fluff/random comments about how the game is going and someone's thoughts and then BAM, croboss did this and that in post X and he is scum vote croboss. That's pretty odd.

How do people feel about killing off Rach?

This post is shifting my read of SC. He's all for killing rach... says croboss needs to die asap... then tests the waters for a rach lynch who is simply not posting for reasons that may or may not even be related to the game as opposed to a player that is actively scummy in the game?

Yeah nah... not buying that as a town post.

[House]

Lots of posts but nothing really convinced me. I'm cool for killing off rach as well btw, lurking yourself to D2 seems like a good scum strategy and she's executing it successfully atm.

Croboss needs to die ASAP.

My suspicion of Victor remains unchanged. Same goes for deathfisario but hey if you don't post there's little that can change mhm?

House seems fairly town, especially so in his last few posts.

Drezi was pretty much null but I'm getting more suspicious of him actually. He seems very articulate and his posts seem well thought-out but he's voting for dooku without much of an argument and seemingly very little thought behind it. He's just observing the debate and then casually injecting some fluff/random comments about how the game is going and someone's thoughts and then BAM, croboss did this and that in post X and he is scum vote croboss. That's pretty odd.

How do people feel about killing off Rach?

This post is shifting my read of SC. He's all for killing rach... says croboss needs to die asap... then tests the waters for a rach lynch who is simply not posting for reasons that may or may not even be related to the game as opposed to a player that is actively scummy in the game?

Yeah nah... not buying that as a town post.

Or you could shut up and see if someone else behaves in an opportunistic manner when they are presented with an easy reason to get on the rachwag. Maybe you're warning them?

Maybe I'm catching you out?

[House]

If croboss is posting elsewhere, that is kinda concerning that he seems to be avoiding this one.

However, acryon does raise a good point that we have 2 weeks to sort things out today.

There is no reason whatsoever to rush a lynch, and Dooku pushing so hard looks opportunistic as hell.

I'm thinking 1 of Count Dooku or acryon is scum, but I don't see them being scum together.

[House]

@acryon you didn't answer my question. Isn't it (see 401-402) obvscum?

Well I got myself into a little trouble discussing that area of croboss before, so I'm not going to address his activity elsewhere.

In my experience, pointing out the fact someone is posting elsewhere isn't a no-no, as long as there is no commentary on what they are posting.

That said, I don't claim to speak for ika, just talking about typical scenarios.

[House]

pisskop & Count Dooku scumteam.

Check.

If folks could choose one of these two to lynch, that'd be super awesome.

[House]

@Victor For sure. If someone does scummier things than croboss, of course I am willing to lynch him/her. But it is obvious imo.

Meh, I still think we have better options than lynching an inactive.

Who talks about lynching him right now?

Backpedal harder, you've been pushing for his lynch for a while.

Pushing for a lynch means "lynching right now".

You're scummy as hell. You and pisskop need to swing.

[House]

pisskop need to swing.

I suggest you present evidence if you intend on pushing me. Its a very scummy thing, to simply hop around and proclaim one's guilt without any backing to it.

umadbro?

[House]

Actually, I am kind of perturbed you are lumping me into an association, to be honest.
Why am I associated with Dooku?

Where was your annoyance at this association at post 376?

pisskop & Count Dooku scumteam.

Check.

Your annoyance feels feigned.

[House]

Where is your associative evidence, House? I don't like

playing

gossiping with people who gambit their way to a lynch.

I don't really care what scum likes.

[House]

Some clarification, if needed:

"X posted in a thread (or 'other threads' or 'today') -- Not Okay.

This must be a mod rule, because it's been used in

several

games that I've played with nary a peep from the mod or other players.

[House]

Some clarification, if needed:

"X posted in a thread (or 'other threads' or 'today') -- Not Okay.

This must be a mod rule, because it's been used in

several

games that I've played with nary a peep from the mod or other players.

EBWOP

[House]

Some clarification, if needed:

"X posted in a thread (or 'other threads' or 'today') -- Not Okay.

This must be a mod rule, because it's been used in

several

games that I've played with nary a peep from the mod or other players.

EBWOP

x2... I need coffee.

[House]

Obviously "lurking" is bad for town, but I don't think that's what he was doing. Going beyond that is kind of a grey area, but I am skeptical of anyone who looked at the information available for him and decided he was definitely lurking.

It would seem intuitive that scum have a higher level of lurking than town, but I have no hard evidence for that. That said, without going into detail for fear of talking about other games, I completely agree with acryon here.
VOTE: cyanide

Your intuition needs a tune-up.

Truth is, lurking isn't alignment indicative. It's playstyle indicative. It

can

help determine a player's alignment based on that particular person's playstyle, but it's more of an individual tell than a stereotypical tell.

As an example, my activity is about the same regardless of my alignment (I run through my games and post), so trying to use activity as an alignment tell for players such as myself (one way or the other) would be foolish.

[House]

Truth is, lurking isn't alignment indicative. It's playstyle indicative. It

can

help determine a player's alignment based on that particular person's playstyle, but it's more of an individual tell than a stereotypical tell.

As an example, my activity is about the same regardless of my alignment (I run through my games and post), so trying to use activity as an alignment tell for players such as myself (one way or the other) would be foolish.

Listen to this guy people.

Please sheep more.

Nice doubtcasting.

I had my reservations when I read that post too, until I read his ISO. Considering he is reading me as town with reason, I find his reply to me to be consistent with that read.

Your post does strengthen my scumread on you, however.

[House]

Dooku lynch go!

[House]

Dooku lynch go!

So where's your vote? Last time you did not have a problem with changing votes even within an hour.

My vote is on my other scumread, pisskop.

I'm happy lynching either one, but Dooku doesn't currently have a competing wagon to my knowledge.

[House]

I didn't like that he's warning us about Rach's (or anyone else's) potential catch up before the post is even there.

What that's kind of the point though.

Would you prefer the situation as:

Rach: hi guys, catching up, my reads are as follows...
Dooku: guys it's easy to make catchup posts look towny!

If anything

that

could look more like trying to discredit the post right away, without regard to the actual content.
Doing it beforehand is more of neutral course of action, since we don't have an actual post to judge at that point, it's a reminder not to be town-biased with reads due to the nature of catchups.

That's complete bs.

As he is scum, he knows whether Rach is town or not and preempting her catch up post is just as scummy as posting it after.

[House]

VOTE: Count Dooku

Anyone that thinks this vote is naked isn't paying attention.

[House]

I don't think Dooku is a good lynch. I really get the vibe of a pressured townie out of him.

Where did Death go? OR NJAC?

You defending him just makes me that much more certain he needs to die today.

You can die D2.

[House]

Town: Lynch Count Dooku today, and if he flips town lynch me tomorrow because I've been campaigning hard for his lynch.

[House]

I like acryon for town. Drezi is solid town read. I agree with him and pisskop's recent post about Dooku: Yes, 354 was kinda odd, and it was worth inquiring him about it, as acryon did, but voting him, spending several pages on this issue, and bandwagoning him seems off to me. I think Dooku didn't handle this in a smart way, maybe he overreacted and he could have simply skipped the constant references to this issue, as he had already explained himself. But I see it more as bad play than an alignment indicative thing.

In other news: I was serious about fisaro (I understand why what I said may seem disingenuous but it wasn't) so, while we wait for croboss to be replaced, can we vote him?

Unvote
Vote: deathfisaro

Scumtastic posting right thar.

[House]

@House: do you think fisaro scumslipped or not?

The only people I'm interested in lynching today are Count Dooku and pisskop.

Their play has been overall scummy. That outweighs what may or may not have been a slip in one post.

[House]

You do

For starters, I didn't like the way he tried to push me to townread him.

Not sure if House is actually a 'jerk', role playing a jerk, or pretending to be a jerk. :\

We can ask questions, which elicit responses. Its just this forum seems to frown upon that sort of proactiveness.

Then he makes a say nothing post which could be avoided by simply reading my meta. I'm not claiming my meta makes me town, but simply that he could easily see I'm abrasive when I'm town.

As for when I'm scum, well, that's a different story.

The even number of people suggests that you don't play 'basic games'. And that leads me to wonder where you came; I would imagine a quick-mafia site.
-How much mafia have you played total?

Not sure if House is actually a 'jerk', role playing a jerk, or pretending to be a jerk. :\

We can ask questions, which elicit responses. Its just this forum seems to frown upon that sort of proactiveness.

It's a simple task to ISO me and get that answer for yourself.

A quick glance would suggest a light witty humor, and that was as scum.

Even after I point that fact out, he avoids actually reading my meta to get his answer, instead attempting to doubtcast me with a weak "meta glance" statement.

I mean, what little he read of my meta was as scum, when he was wondering whether I was "a jerk" as

town

? Really?

What the hell are you two doing? This isn't content.

Then he makes a post complaining about a lack of content... without... posting... content?

I'm really going to have to do some research and see if that kind of talk tends to come from a scumie or townie.

Since I came back to this site, I've seen that kind of line at least 8 times now.

And as I already mentioned, this post comes across as forced. Why make this post at all instead of simply doing it?

pisskop need to swing.

I suggest you present evidence if you intend on pushing me. Its a very scummy thing, to simply hop around and proclaim one's guilt without any backing to it.

I've been pushing him for a while by this point. Ignoring me didn't work, and he's lashing out at me now.

[House]

Well you're half right, but I wouldn't put any money on me being an IC.

Totally crazy, though. You've got me pegged, there.

[House]

croboss

Needs to die. Lets see what his replacement has to say.

What makes his posts scum play instead of bad town play?

[House]

2 points to the Vic-meister.

[House]

I don't think Dooku is a good lynch. I really get the vibe of a pressured townie out of him.

Where did Death go? OR NJAC?

You defending him just makes me that much more certain he needs to die today.

Bad logic. Maybe he is scum, trying to WK me. I don't think he is, but since you are scumreading him, you should have considered it.

Yeah, but I'm scumreading you too, so...

[House]

Blue is the mod color. You want to get modkilled?

TBF,

bolded

blue is his color.

No. The color is the mod color. Using that color whether bold or not can mislead players into thinking it's the mod's words.

[House]

It is funny that everyone suspects the more active players, and let the lurkers lurk.
I decided that I won't/rarely will introduce new topics in this game from now on; I think this is the only game her on ms, where everyone who talks about something new is going to be suspected.

You're just getting defensive here. Just play the game how you play it, and stop acting like a victim. Suspicion that others have on you doesn't appear to have anything to do with activity level, and using activity level as a reason to suspect someone either way is bad.

I don't even care. I did everything I could, answered every questions (I think).
Lynch me, at least after I flip everyone will see that Riabi, you, Victor, House and Lalendra were talking shit.

Meh, that wouldn't be fair with the town.
So

@Mod I would like to replace out.

Oh the AtE here is blinding!

[House]

Oh the AtE here is blinding!

Yeah, I'm unsure what to make of the replace out. I know it's usually best to just not dwell on it, because they are generally not alignment-indicative, but it's hard to ignore it completely.

It's not so much the replace out as the post right before it and the timing of it.

[House]

Yeah, I'm super happy with my vote.

[House]

I don't really care what scum thinks of me.

[House]

I don't really care what scum thinks of me.

It doesn't matter how you phrase your way out you're dodging my question.

I sure am, and I don't care how much you point it out.

[House]

Actually the way you posted that tells me you're one stubborn man so me going all hostile won't solve anything.
Let's play it more diplomatic way.

I currently have no read on you other than that you're protecting death bit too much, which I find weird.
The two questions I ask you is me attempting to figure out where you're coming from.
if you're town, then it would be easy to explain it and I'll be able to see it. Plus, by answering them, you prevent me from claiming.

What makes you think I'm protecting him? I haven't liked his play since the beginning of the game, but I'm not interested in him for a D1 lynch.

[House]

Ok for personal reference
croboss -> Metalcyanide
Count Dooku -> Reminisence

Mostly liking for Town: Drezi, SC, House. Their play so far has been what i'd expect from town, they've been asking questions and pressuring people, also i understand Drezi's PoV wrt the catch-up posts, since i was that scum who made super townie catch up posts in that game.

The Null-Towns so far for me are Lalendra and VDA: Lalendra seems to be poking here and there at everything, tho the paranoia feels kinda townish (as in, not trusting anything 100%), VDA mostly due to experience with him in previous games.

RachMarie is... super null because she's done nothing yet, tho i know from experience that this happens often so...

Currently im torn between Count Dooku and acronym, acronym pulled what seems like a strawman on Count Dooku's argument (which is legit) by overblowing the fact that he quoted Rach in his post (and idk how everybody else missed such an obvious strawman), but i didn't like Count Dooku's reaction to it either, both are scummy after this but they are certainly not scum together, more so the fact that Count Dooku's reaction seemed mostly driven by emotion due to people not understanding his PoV, the back pedaling tho... is what i dislike.

The others weren't as memorable through my read through, so i'll go and ISO them to form any reads there (if any)

For now

Vote: Acronym

Because the strawman is always scum motivated, and the backpedaling tho could be because Count Dooku was just fed up with the argument.

Why did you feel the need to mention RachMarie specifically as a "super null" read when you had other null reads that you didn't bother naming individually?

Why is she memorable enough to call by name after having "done nothing yet" when nobody else is?

[House]

Hey, I'm done reading. There is a ton of useless information in the last 24 pages

I'm not going to make reads on everyone. I left my notes at home and really a lot of you are null reads anyways.

Really the only thing I want to jump on right now is Dooku wagon, he was very defensive and took up a lot of pages being angry about people asking him about the disclaimer thing. In addition I feel like the Croboss vote early on seemed like he knew he was after an easy target. Also, while his exit from this game was less than graceful I'm trying not to hold RL stuff against him.

VOTE: Count Dooku

Feel free to question me on anything

Hey there, in your last post you mentioned:

As of where I am Sir Cyanide is on my radar as is Death.

But it ended up as "lots of useless information in the last 24 pages, everyone is null"?

People removed votes from you due to croboss replacing out, and now that everyone seems to have forgotten about that, you just chill out and join the largest wagon repeating the reasons others have given?

Well that doesn't quite work for me.

VOTE: Metalcyanide

Damn it. Now if only you had gotten a town role pm so I could have sheeped your read!

[House]

I can agree for now on SC. House does give out townreads and does look for townslips.

So what? Scum does both for town cred.

[House]

pisskop strikes me as itching to get a claim out of me to confirm what he may have perceived as a soft claim earlier.

Although he's not coming straight out and campaigning for my lynch, he's doubtcasting hard to try to get people to vote me without actually appearing to be actively pushing the wagon.

TL;DR> pisskop is scum. But we already know that.

[House]

@House
Are you being serious? I kinda feel like you're pretending to scumread me. Between your reluctance to present a case, your consistently spammy one-liners, and your now blatent implications that I suspect anything. Its actually sounds like a softclaim in 631, to be frank.

Whatever your obnoxious meta-strategy is, you seem determined to play poorly.

Sucks for you that I did indeed present a case, over 100 posts ago.

Nice try at the additional doubtcasting, though. Keep up the scum work!

[House]

@Sir What is your full case against the slot I took over (croboss)?

Not that you're asking me, but I think the fact you're questioning others about their read of your alignment while avoiding any mention of it pings my scumdar.

[House]

It's scum's job to hunt for PRs, it's town's job to hunt for scum.

This is why I thought all the IC and how to play it talk was crap. Sakura do you think anyone else who have been discussing PRs is scum?

Yes, that post was notably good posturing.

I was suitably impressed.

[House]

@Sir What is your full case against the slot I took over (croboss)?

Not that you're asking me, but I think the fact you're questioning others about their read of your alignment while avoiding any mention of it pings my scumdar.

I'll take responses from others if you want to give one. As for my comments on Cro....he sucked. I've never played with him (this is my 2nd game on this site) but he struck me as a noob who had no idea what to do or say. I can easily see why people would want to go after him but its because its the easy lynch for scum.

Now my good doctor, now that I've said my piece how about yours?

I don't know if your misunderstanding of my post is genuine or if you're just dissembling. Allow me to rephrase for clarity:

I think the fact you're questioning others about their read of your alignment while avoiding directly commenting on your alignment pings my scumdar.

[House]

Bit late for that after it's pointed out, champ.

[House]

All giving somebody a townslip is in early game is is the equivalent of a smile and handshake. It means little to say somebody is may be townslipping. The very nature of 'slipping' requires and implies faulty play.
. I make points to praise others for their 'towny' posts as scum, and I know others do as well. This idea that House is town because he said nice things to people is ludicrous.

House has, as explained earlier, a style that is purposely obfuscating; making simply reading him at face value silly.

This is a prime example of scum saying nice things to town for a townread. I rather liked that he picked up on that from my playstyle, but it doesn't counter my scumread of him. I could see why some people could be swayed by it, though.

I'm not gonna go into more depth about it, but you trying to point out possible soft claims instead of letting them go doesn't help town, helps scum instead. When someone has died and then people wonder the "why" they died is when town goes look for soft/hard-claims PR-slips, etc.

pisskop strikes me as itching to get a claim out of me to confirm what he may have perceived as a soft claim earlier.

. Disclaimer: House's play involves poor town choices and gambits. If he is going to use his implied 'soft claim' to push a scumread of me on the town then he is going to have to substantiate it further. I would as soon PL a townie who would fake soft claim to get a lynch than not.

I love how he continues to ignore my wall case on him.

[House]

Shit, sorry. Didn't realize it had been that long since I posted.

I gotta say, I'm kinda confused about what appears to be an attempt to get a wagon going on acryon. Can someone maybe help me understand why we would wagon him right now?

So, not even a claim of r/l interfering? Just an admission that you have basically been avoiding posting?

FoS Riabi

[House]

I can see why there have been calls to kill my slot, Crosboss has played a very bad game.

Hi there Amished tell.

Unvote
Vote: Metalcyanide

It took you a hundred posts to pick up on a shitty tell?

Who are you trying to protect?

[House]

I can see why there have been calls to kill my slot, Crosboss has played a very bad game.

Hi there Amished tell.

Unvote
Vote: Metalcyanide

Can you elaborate? Are you just implying that he is scum and has been screwed over by croboss's bad play, and that this post is proof of that? I'm not sure I read this the same way (note that I'm not saying I don't think the slot is scum, which is why my vote hasn't changed.)

Care to make a good case against one of them or are you scum that is unable to.

A good scum would be able to make a case either way - or at the very least, make it look like a good case. Solid cases for votes =/= town.

This should be grounds for a force replace.

I'm sorry, but players should not be posting from other player's accounts, even accidentally.

Nothing personal, Lalendra.

[House]

Is there any way I can convince anyone on the dooku wagon to jump on the croboss (metalcyanide) wagon? I'm just not really feeling dooku.

If there were different people on it, I'd consider it, tbh.

[House]

VOTE: Sakura Hana

[House]

VOTE: Sakura Hana

If you think naked votes faze me you're wrong.
Tho if you want to lynch me i at least want to interact with everyone before then so i can have some decent reads before i die.
Specially Nacho

Not particularly worried about phasing people who can't spell it.

[House]

faze and phase are homonyms, House

EBWOP

In a world that makes "bootilicious" a word, perhaps. But I live in reality land where words have meaning, and faze is an illiterate knock off of phase.

[House]

That was a fun sideline. Back to your regularly scheduled scumhunting, peeps.

[House]

. As for Death, I'd prefer to wait and see what his replacement has to say.

Sakura Hana is Death.
Nacho is Rachmarie.

What do you think of Hana's entrance.

Ugh, there are so many replacements and lurkers in this game I can't keep up. Let me ISO Hana and get back to you in about 2 mins.

VOTE: Sakura Hana

Naked votes are boring. Can you give your reasoning? I am on the same page I think but would like to know the reasons for your scumread.

acryon is town. Sakura is being manipulative.

In a world that makes "bootilicious" a word, perhaps. But I live in reality land where words have meaning, and faze is an illiterate knock off of phase.

*bootylicious

Sorry, I'm not well-versed in ghetto speak.

[House]

Sakura Hana - Just a quick fyi for you, I didn't even know that an Amished tell was a thing before this game.

If anything, this just lends Sakura's suspicions credence.

If you're scum that doesn't know about this supposed tell, you don't know to be wary of criticizing your predecessor.

If you're town that doesn't know about it, your name is House (because I've done the same thing when I replaced into a town slot in the past).

[House]

Hana slot is scummy cuz Death scumslipped in his tiny iso.
Reminicence is 'scummy' cuz Count Dooku did bad things with his posting.
Nacho is literally the first content from his slot.
Your slot was an enigma.
House is House
Lal is probtown
Drezi is slightly more likely to be town than your slot.
NJAC I cant read so good, but he wants Hana dead and I kinda agree.

unvote

Why is Hana scummy but Reminescence 'scummy'?

[House]

Because I dont believe CD was/is scum.

Why didn't you say so in your Cliff's Notes for ABR?

[House]

755 is scummeh.

VOTE: MetalCyanide

[House]

Intent. Make your peace, croboss.

piss. This is why you drink coffee or stretch in the morning before logic. >.<

vote: metal

What? Why?

[House]

oppurtunistic vote looks predatory.

I'm willing to let it go for right now, but that post can easily apply to your vote if metal flips town.

[House]

You know what I would suggest?

I would suggest hunting scum among those that are townreading me.

I'm a volatile, chaotic player, and scum loves the noise I create. I guarantee that at least one of the players townreading me is scum.

[House]

When I go really look at Reminiscence, Sakura Hana and I'm guessing House.

Could you translate this to English please? I have no clue what you're saying, here.

[House]

You know what I would suggest?

I would suggest hunting scum among those that are townreading me.

I'm a volatile, chaotic player, and scum loves the noise I create. I guarantee that at least one of the players townreading me is scum.

Is anyone town reading you?

Funny you should ask...

Spoiler: Players either townreading and/or generally opposed to my lynch

So aside from me who else falls into your scum list and why?

Acryon was until i started interacting with him, made my scumread on him weaken because he seemed to seriously believe he was doing scumhunting, too bad i never got an answer for my last question tho.
Aside from that, the other people i've interacted with,

pisskop and house feel town

, SC was a townread from my readthrough but i haven't interacted at all with him ever since, and the others just feel like wild cards, lalendra seems to be pinged by everything that moves, and then we have the lurkers/replaced out people.

So I haven't made much progress in the term of finding scum, but at least im finding town, which is as good.

What?

Sakura is making me feel like she is trying to tie pisskop to my alignment here, because there is no reasoning for this "feel".

House – Like I said, scummy but not necessarily scum. I feel as though scum would be more defensive, and not just roll with the punches when someone called them scummy. Without knowing a great deal about his meta,

I don’t think he’s scum, just a snarky bastid.

Sir Cyanide – Still not liking all of the IC discussion, but at the moment I have bigger fish to fry; maybe I’ll come back to you D2.
Croboss - I was ready to defend him initially, but I really don't like the way he flaked when there was some heat on him. Can't even say it was just life getting in the way, because he was making posts, just not any with real content. @Croboss, explain to me why you're not scum plz.
VOTE: Croboss

Here's a waffley townread that allows Lalendra to back out of it later.

Also: I don't like House's case on pisskop. In fact pisskop is also leaning town for me.

House vs pisskop is just town vs town.

I don't want to lynch House. He is not that scummy imo (of course not towny, but not the scummiest), because he usually plays like this, when he is town. I am not an expert of his behavior, but when I played with him, he played just like this.

No interest in lynching me here, either. Plenty of leeway to be led into it when a wagon forms, however.

Hey guys sorry for being 1-2 days late on this but here is my somewhat short thoughts... (you guys post wayyy too much i can hardly catch up)

Who actually claimed IC? I can't find it where someone actually claimed? Anyway so If the IC isn't willing to be mod confirmed I think they should obviously be lynched any scum can easily claim IC (knows the setup) even if there isn't one to prevent being counterclaimed, easy fakeclaim for scum.

House: I feel like he knows what he's doing and is smart about it, but he's also seems authoritative and gets angered fairly easily.

Thats the only person that really stood out to me hopefully I can dig deeper. (haha I guess I'm pretty bad at mafia)

VOTE: Sir Cyanide

Look at this post. This is the only time he has mentioned me the entire thread! If his read were genuine, I can't help but think he'd have had more to say about my play than this one simple post.

Of those "reads", I'd have to say that croboss is the scummiest of the bunch.

[House]

When I go really look at Reminiscence, Sakura Hana and I'm guessing House.

Could you translate this to English please? I have no clue what you're saying, here.

Really? You didn't understand this, okay then. In all likelihood I'll be today's lynch. Everyone who votes for me aside from scum will be wrong. So after I am dead and have left the game I suggest that Reminiscence, Sakura Hana and you, House, be looked into as possible scum.

I fucking loled.

[House]

I misread post 177, disregard the croboss post and my commentary.

[House]

Well, the comment is relevant, but not in the context of that post.

[House]

Considering i'm townreading you tho, I don't see why town would scumread you, I don't get what's that you see that scum loves about your play, chaotic doesn't equal scum.

Chaotic play and noise are excellent for scum, because it muddies the water.

[House]

Hey guys sorry for being 1-2 days late on this but here is my somewhat short thoughts... (you guys post wayyy too much i can hardly catch up)

Who actually claimed IC? I can't find it where someone actually claimed? Anyway so If the IC isn't willing to be mod confirmed I think they should obviously be lynched any scum can easily claim IC (knows the setup) even if there isn't one to prevent being counterclaimed, easy fakeclaim for scum.

House: I feel like he knows what he's doing and is smart about it, but he's also seems authoritative and gets angered fairly easily.

Thats the only person that really stood out to me hopefully I can dig deeper. (haha I guess I'm pretty bad at mafia)

VOTE: Sir Cyanide

croboss, why have you not had anything else to say about my play other than this one sparse mention? Considering you are viewing me as "knowing what I'm doing & smart", wouldn't you want to know my opinion on things and reasoning behind them?

[House]

Oh, you're right.

Carry on, town. Keep up the good work!

[House]

Nearly 300 posts after that statement I quoted and he didn't mention me once.

I agree MC/croboss is our best shot at scum.

[House]

Nearly 300 posts after that statement I quoted and he didn't mention me once.

I agree MC/croboss is our best shot at scum.

Because I don't mention you doesn't mean much. However, we were talking earlier and you did ignore 647. Care to answer it at this point

Nice try to deflect, but my commentary was about croboss' play. You're trying to speak for him? That's pretty hyperdefensive, brah.

[House]

What the hell did I deflect? You list my slot in a statement I'm going to respond to it also I still don't see a response so who's deflecting now.

My post was a criticism of croboss for not addressing me for nearly 300 posts before he wound up replacing out after stating I "knew what I was doing" and "smart about it".

You felt the need to speak to his posts, as if you know his reasons simply by the virtue of sharing his slot.

The truth is, you're scrambling to make excuses and deflect, and struggling to make anybody but yourself the focus of discussion.

[House]

My post was a criticism of croboss for not addressing me for nearly 300 posts before he wound up replacing out after stating I "knew what I was doing" and "smart about it".

Also, this is the problem with so many replacements. People who have been in the game from the start can't keep the names straight.

And that's precisely what your response should have been, instead of you attempting to speak on behalf of those posts.

You misstepped.

[House]

827 & 828 makes me think the NK was pisskop's decision.

VOTE: pisskop

[House]

So skip right over Riabi missing the start of the new day and soft-voting ika.

Derping isn't scummy.

[House]

Is meta-reading lurkers?

Your eagerness to divert attention is.

When you flip scum, I'll be taking a hard look at croboss, too.

[House]

@House

[sigh]
you didnt answer my question.

You should be used to that by now.

Lovely dramatics, though. Very moving.

[House]

I fully believe that at least 2 out of the 3 scums are new(er) insofar as they killed SC.

The ika wagon will be my focus.

What's with the cogdiss?

If you think 2 of the 3 scum are newer, why focus on an experienced player?

[House]

Stop trying to distract town with associative hunting preflip, Drezi.

[House]

Stop trying to distract town with associative hunting preflip, Drezi.

If you want to scumread someone, you need to be able to form scumteams around them. If you have a hard time seeing him as a team with most of the other players, chances are higher that your read might be wrong. Yes we have distancing and bussing, but it's something to consider with all of this taken into account.

Also if you just keep telling people what they're doing is bad, useless etc. it just starts making them apathetic, and they'll be less and less likely to bring forth possible clues and cases, which might have been useful. I hope you can see how anti-town that is on your part. If you think something isn't productive explain why you think so, and offer a better course of action etc.

Right, because I'm super worried about not appearing anti-town.

[House]

Touche.

Feeling better about Drezi. No clue about his ISO, but I'm liking his interactions with me.

[House]

I'm still waiting for your reads, btw.

Sorry, I kinda went off after that reply and then i was busy yesterday.
Townreading ika, House and Drezi.
Not liking AM and Albert, that strawman acryon pulled is still pretty strong, and his recent vote on me without any sort of reasoning other than (we need a counter wagon) while scumreading you is really odd.

Dude, why are you townreading me?

[House]

Touche.

Feeling better about Drezi. No clue about his ISO, but I'm liking his interactions with me.

So.
You're aware of how much chaos you create, and you know why scum want to keep you around. You realize your actions have negative effects. And yet you continue playing the same exact way because... it's comfortable? Are you just too afraid to do anything else?

It gets results, as long as I stay alive a couple days. It's the early game that is iffy.

[House]

The reasons for voting Ika (he quickhammered) are dumb. I am not saying anything beyond saying that voting for Ika quickhammering is dumb unless I drank too much and completely forgot calling the wagon on him anything but dumb.

If ika had been in the game the entire time & quick hammered, I'd have null read it as a typical ika move.

As ika entered the game and immediately quick hamemered to prevent his own lynch, I'm leaning scum because he had zero to base his vote on and was acting purely out of self-preservation.

As far as "would scum put the spotlight on themselves", fuck yes they would because town always asks that stupid ass question. I've done the same in the past and skated to endgame because of it.

VOTE: ika

[House]

The reasons for voting Ika (he quickhammered) are dumb. I am not saying anything beyond saying that voting for Ika quickhammering is dumb unless I drank too much and completely forgot calling the wagon on him anything but dumb.

If ika had been in the game the entire time & quick hammered, I'd have null read it as a typical ika move.

As ika entered the game and immediately quick hamemered to prevent his own lynch, I'm leaning scum because he had zero to base his vote on and was acting purely out of self-preservation.

As far as "would scum put the spotlight on themselves", fuck yes they would

because town always asks that stupid ass question

. I've done the same in the past and skated to endgame because of it.

VOTE: ika

(To clarify lest I be misinterpreted in the future, I am not inferring that my read on Nacho is town with the bolded above. I haven't read him yet.

[House]

Please, everybody, don't welcome me all at once. :S

Trying to figure out if you're town or not first.

[House]

Care to provide a little analysis with all that information?

[House]

ika's quick-hammering isn't a scumtell.

If he did something else that you find scummy, bring that up. Don't try to obfuscate the matter with preemptively arguing over whether something is a scumtell that you're not using to base your read off of anyway.

[House]

Care to provide a little analysis with all that information?

*tugs at sleeve*

A Rough VC Study

NJAC

- 6 - Always Mafia, Nachomamma8, Albert B. Rampage,

Sakura Hana

,

pisskop

, ika
ika - 4 - Drezi, Lalendra,

NJAC

, House

Metalcyanide

- 7 -

SIR CYANIDE

, Drezi,

Sakura Hana

, House,

pisskop

, Albert B. Rampage, ika
ika - 4 - VictorDeAngelo, Lalendra, Riabi,

Metalcyanide

Sakura Hana - 1 -

NJAC

Not Voting: Nachomamma8

The two lynch wagons from Days 1 and 2 are roughly the same. Four names show up on both those wagons (the majority). Contrast this to the ika counterwagon. The only name in common between the two days is Lalendra. Two different sets of people tried, and failed, to lynch ika on Days 1 and 2. You could argue that the scum team just rotated and different scum pushed the ika wagon, but I think that's unlikely and I think those wagon compositions are quite town.

Isn't it possible that Lalendra is scum on the ika wagon, camping out on it because it was pretty obvious that he wasn't going to be lynched?

[House]

(That's not a counterclaim, I was flicking through the game this morning and I thought Riabi was the vig and was going to say something about it.)

*tugs at sleeve*

Care to provide a little analysis with all that information?

*tugs at sleeve*

A Rough VC Study

NJAC

- 6 - Always Mafia, Nachomamma8, Albert B. Rampage,

Sakura Hana

,

pisskop

, ika
ika - 4 - Drezi, Lalendra,

NJAC

, House

Metalcyanide

- 7 -

SIR CYANIDE

, Drezi,

Sakura Hana

, House,

pisskop

, Albert B. Rampage, ika
ika - 4 - VictorDeAngelo, Lalendra, Riabi,

Metalcyanide

Sakura Hana - 1 -

NJAC

Not Voting: Nachomamma8

The two lynch wagons from Days 1 and 2 are roughly the same. Four names show up on both those wagons (the majority). Contrast this to the ika counterwagon. The only name in common between the two days is Lalendra. Two different sets of people tried, and failed, to lynch ika on Days 1 and 2. You could argue that the scum team just rotated and different scum pushed the ika wagon, but I think that's unlikely and I think those wagon compositions are quite town.

Isn't it possible that Lalendra is scum on the ika wagon, camping out on it because it was pretty obvious that he wasn't going to be lynched?

[House]

House, who's sleeve are you tugging at?

Probably the person I am quoting.

[House]

Yes, we are.

VOTE: Riabi

[House]

no, we are most definitely not. if he's a fake, the real vig will fucking kill him next night.

You're right, it IS a 2-shot vig.

UNVOTE:

[House]

what do you think about ika being scum?

Waiting for a case that doesn't revolve around him quickhammering.

That's not a scumtell for ika. That's an ikatell.

[House]

I've had a townread on House but his vote for Riabi puts me on the fence about him.

My vote on Riabi was under the misconception the vig was 1-shot.

I've not played a game before with a multi-shot vig (which was town-sided).

[House]

What does it matter whether it is 1-shot or 2-shot?

Fake-claiming 1-shot can create chaos if the real vig counters depending on the reads people have on the fakeclaimer vs. the trueclaimer. copper223 fake counterclaimed cop and got a d1 claimed cop lynched because his play was townier than the real cop that had been outed since damned near the beginning of the game.

With the vig being a 2-shot, they can counterclaim in a far more compelling manner.

[House]

But why did you vote him without a counterclaim even if he was 1-shot? He's confirmed town no matter how many shots he has unless he gets cc'd.

Because this is only a semi-open setup and I derped on the role possibilities.

[House]

You forgot there was a limited number of PRs?

No, I thought there was the possibility of a 3P/scum vig (which scum could have used to WIFOM town with a PR claim by saying town vig)

Now will you move the fuck on and stop chasing a dead end?

[House]

"I thought Dooku was scummy. I thought Dooku's replace-out was scummy. I think the D1 hammer was scummy, and I think the D2 hammer is scummy. I've thought that slot was scummy from the get-go, I still do, and to be completely honest, your defense of that slot is confusing to me."
I screwed up the quote but THIS. THIS RIGHT HERE.

I don't know that there's anything that can convince me that slot is not scum, at this point.

VOTE: ika

I did not notice that until Drezi pointed it out. That seems like a pretty obvious scum slip to me.

unvote, vote Riabi

[House]

House is overdefensive. I don't like this.

Explaining why I thought something isn't being defensive. Move along.

[House]

Swearing up and down the block because I pursued a line of questioning is being defensive.

No, it's being House.

But what's this line of questioning b/s you're talking about? You're not pursuing anything, you're derping pretty fucking hardcore.

[House]

Yes, we are.

VOTE: Riabi

this vote sucks

True. Keep reading.

[House]

what do you think about ika being scum?

Waiting for a case that doesn't revolve around him quickhammering.

That's not a scumtell for ika. That's an ikatell.

No, but lurking is a scumtell for ika. He's lurking right now.

So the case against him is lurking? That's it?

idk, I'm reading you as pretty much town. You have a keener eye for scum hunting, so I'll follow your lead.

[House]

VOTE: ika

cuz TTH is samrt.

[House]

VOTE: ika

cuz TTH is samrt.

She's brought up this point before. Why didn't you vote then?

Because I'm in and out of this game due to my alignment.

... I hate town roles. Too much of a headache. It's a lot more fun to manipulate town than it is to be the manipulated townie.

[House]

Unvote, vote Drezi

Yeah, this.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Drezi

[House]

No, no, no!
You were doing just fine!

Have you been reading that interaction at all?

[House]

If everyone here wanted to get ika killed, that means they are likely not scum with him. Ika can't be scum alone, that's not possible, even if he's the scummiest motherfucker ever to exist. Get it?

That's terrible logic.

Distancing is a thing. It's even a popular thing, depending on playstyles. So is bussing. I have literally gone after every scum buddy I've had in a game that I replaced into, and I wound up winning in LyLo because of it.

[House]

I'm bored.

VOTE: ika

Somebody do something.

[House]

So what did i miss?

Seems like you're scum.

[House]

So what did i miss?

Seems like you're scum.

says who?

TellTaleHeart.

She's scary good when she's town, so I'm inclined to sheep her because she's town.

[House]

Vote: ika

goodposting

[House]

So hello there, whole scumteam sitting on the ika wagon )

Nah, TTH says ika is scum, and ika hasn't even seen fit to challenge that.

[House]

Okay, so I seem to remember an outed claim or something.

Is that player still alive, and if so where is their claim please?

(I remember ABR)

[House]

I'm pointing out all this crap about these two and they don't even make an attempt at giving an explanation just brush the issues away, trying to redirect attention to other stuff, or ignoring it completely. What does that tell you.

It tells you that I'm working from a constant.

ika is scum. Period. Count Dooku was scummy, as was Reminiscence. The slot's been the counterwagon to

not one, but two

town mislynches. ika is not that difficult of a read; he is a

lot

more participative as town. The evidence is overwhelming, and I would bet my (game) life on ika being scum.

My method for looking at associatives right now is to see who balks at voting ika. I know it's not entirely rational, but I also know it's not that important right now. I'm fighting an uphill battle where I either have to force scum to bus or get the town to consensus, both of which are daunting tasks.

How do you feel about an ika, Lalendra, Drezi team?

I'm thinking I kinda like it.

[House]

I've seen my share of scum pushing obviously wrong lines of thinking to appear town. I can give examples if needed.

In 1315, were you giving an example?

[House]

Btw I think Lalendra is the least likely scum out of the four. Not because her play is townie at all, but more like the fact that the other three have been subtly or not so subtly testing the waters to see how well recieved a push on her would be, and the ika wagon afterwards makes more sense that way aswell, since getting 2 of Lalendra Riabi and Nacho to vote must've seem like an easier option, given that Lalendra is tunneling ika, and Riabi voted him aswell before, plus Nacho hasn't been strictly against it either.

While the way House is still playing around randomly doesn't make me feel good about him anymore at all, sure he got by doing that in the earlier days but it'd be time to get serious if it wasn't just a cover for the scummm.

House can do whatever the fuck House wants because House always does.

I would tell you to get used to it, but you are going to be eating rope with your buddies, so...

[House]

House are you thinking the scum team is ika, Lel and Drezi? Or someone else?

1314

[House]

Riabi, I'd suggest waiting for TTH to chime in on that post before forming a solid opinion.

[House]

I don't even know how they can push me, I'm making my stance clear, write what I'm thinking and detail how it changes, while they just go around pointing at different people and throw around empty rethorical phrases, geez.

Effort is not indicative of alignment.

Nice try, though.

[House]

My reads:

Not scum

House
Riabi
TTH
ABR

Scum

Everyone else

If ika was town, he'd already have been hammered and the game would be over.

[House]

Riabi, I'd suggest waiting for TTH to chime in on that post before forming a solid opinion.

I'm in no rush. But, I'll ask you, why are you so confident that TTH is town? I get why you trust her opinion if she is town, but, you seem REALLY confident that she's town, why?

I've seen town TTH and scum TTH.

This is very much town TTH.

When ika flips, you too will see the light.

[House]

Effort is not indicative of alignment.

True, and not being transparent is sure as hell easy and favorable for scum at the same time.

You would know better than I.

[House]

I suppose I could see a case for Nacho scum, so I'll need to sort which two between Drezi, Nacho, and Lalendra.

I'm leaning Drezi and Lalendra, but Nacho is a wily one and not to be taken lightly.

[House]

I've seen town TTH and scum TTH.

This is very much town TTH.

When ika flips, you too will see the light.

Honestly, I doubt an ika flip will change much for me. I'm already convinced he's scum. Your argument that a town ika would ahve already been hammered is a good one.

But, I'm still not sure how that means TTH is, in fact, town. Do you mind elaborating about about what her town meta is that you are reading?

In fact I do mind. I mind quite a lot.

Since you are town, you mind too.

[House]

If ika was town, he'd already have been hammered and the game would be over.

Yeah, he sure woud have with 3 scum on his wagon if he's town.

Thing is, there isn't 3 scum on his wagon. I know there are two townies beyond question, and I have a solid town read on a third.

ika. Is. SCUM.

[House]

I know there are two townies beyond question, and I have a solid town read on a third.

So please contribute and convince me, because I'm all for lynching ika if you can come up with a likelier scenario than mine, but saying "he's scum trust me" won't cut it.

Right, because I'm totally going to convince scum to bus.

[House]

In fact I do mind. I mind quite a lot.

Since you are town, you mind too.

Uhhh, ok. I don't understand, but... ok. How about I take this approach, other than taking your word for it, why should I trust that TTH is town? I don't really have enough reason based soley on her play in this game. I'm not saying she's scum. I'm saying I don't know.

The magic 8 ball says: Ask again later.

TTH isn't the topic of discussion for today, let's keep on track.

[House]

This is the pinnacle of confident bullshitting, you just say stuff expect others to believe you and refuse to give an explanation for mysterious pro town reasons. Ha-ha.

Scumposting.

Somebody doesn't like being caught.

[House]

TTH isn't the topic of discussion for today, let's keep on track.

Except that in 1333 you're asking me to wait for her to weigh in before I make a decision. Her thoughts don't mean much to me at this point unless I'm at least reasonably certain that she's town.

Okay fine. Make a decision whenever you want.

Just make one about HER tomorrow.

[House]

Scumposting.

Somebody doesn't like being caught.

You're just proving my point dude.

So? I never contested it.

Being abrasive and demanding isn't alignment indicative.

[House]

So? I never contested it.

Being abrasive and demanding isn't alignment indicative.

True, but being vague and unhelpful isn't pro-town.

No, but it's in line with my general distaste of town roles.

[House]

Yeah sure, we're totally going to follow scum.

You've been hard defending him for far too long to get out of it now, so you're staying committed to it. Kudos on that, but maybe you'll think twice about defending ika when he's your scumbuddy in the future.

[House]

@Riabi

Drezi is my choice for the vig shot tonight. That will give us some breathing room on figuring out which of Lalendra and Nacho are the remaining scum. And you'll have your concerns about my certainty of TTH put to rest. Either way, she needs to live until tomorrow.

After that, I guarantee you'll never vote for her.

[House]

Lynch me today, and kill House, TTH, ABR after I flip town.

If you were town you'd never say that because we're in MyLo.

Your AtE is both obvious and pathetic.

[House]

^ reeks of flailing scum, which is weird because she's not even the one being wagoned.

Looks like my reads hit the mark, eh? There was none of this certainty and desperation before I laid out my reads, now she's all about becoming a martyr.

[House]

He's*

w/e.

[House]

Your zero logic declarations seem to have swayed Riabi, and right after he voiced doubt towards me due to simply not thinking from my POV, you jump in to tell him to vig me. I am sure you're scum, sorry.

Shenanigans.

If you were sure I was scum, you'd have been campaigning for the wagon to shift off of ika and onto me.

Instead, you chose to AtE because scum is manipulative like that.

[House]

Your zero logic declarations seem to have swayed Riabi, and right after he voiced doubt towards me due to simply not thinking from my POV, you jump in to tell him to vig me. I am sure you're scum, sorry.

Where do you get the impression that my view is swayed? Atm, I'm still intending to hammer ika (pending some more time) and then likely vig Lal. That said, I am finding you scummier and scummier, but it's your play that's doing that to me, and not the drivel that House is spouting.

This drivel is pulling the scum out, so you might reconsider your shitty attitude towards me.

[House]

It's so obvious that House is just trying to get me pissed off, which apparently makes me look scummy, duh.

How do you figure? I piss town off all the time, and they town it up.

Being angry lowers one's inhibitions.