New York 182 - Game Over

[Gorkington]

vote: otolia[/vote]
dare to be different

[Gorkington]

VOTE: vote: otolia
i cant do anything right

[Gorkington]

I am intentionally being difficult.

[Gorkington]

you have it backwards I am scum who is looking to get towncredit for not being on a mislynch.
dufus.

I will vote you for your dufus misread of a situation and because you are obv on the other scumteam of this multiball game.

vote: silverdog

[Gorkington]

what a mystery.
do I get to make guesses too?

[Gorkington]

sorry

[Gorkington]

but choof the prank is actually on youuuuu

anyone else miffed that the silverdog is more upset by being called a dufus than she is about me being scum?

[Gorkington]

im pretty miffed about it.
I think I'm gonna votepark.

okay then I'm replacing out
seiya

dam.
you will be sorely missed for all of your serious contributions to this game thus far.
but 4srs read another game with thor in it. you will understand.

[Gorkington]

only scum cares about what they're called.

why would I waste my time reading another game that I didn't play in

man why are all the dogs in this game so bad.

[Gorkington]

can i get a doggy counterwagon going?

[Gorkington]

yay i love getting what i want.
Translation for silver and choof:

woof woof woof woof woof woof woof

[Gorkington]

who would have thought such a crisis could arise because of a dog eat dog world.

thats the best joke i'll be making this game.

@vikingman, i'll let you know when i know what the case on the dogs are.

[Gorkington]

also if people moved it wouldn't be a counterwagon.

[Gorkington]

omfg pisskop is also a dog.

[Gorkington]

assumed name-calling=dufus.

[Gorkington]

wasnt trying to be unpleasant. just kind of tipsy and was making joke.
assumed choof replaced because he didnt understand quickwagon.

[Gorkington]

i will stop being silly.
if im making game a bummer i can leave.

[Gorkington]

i will avoid being sad by joining new wagon.
VOTE: pisskop

how is it going player who i am only going to refer to as human.
do you know that your tone is scumtacular?

[Gorkington]

i should have known that calling people dogs would turn me into the villain of this game.

i would wagon copper because i am offended.

[Gorkington]

there can be 1-2 not totally gonked up roles that arent on the list of normal roles.

[Gorkington]

whats the lylo clause and why would it be more likely to bar existence of a hated vs a doublevoter?

A Translation of Thor's intent for those that don't know him:

why translate thor?

[Gorkington]

meh.
VOTE: copper

[Gorkington]

could have same issue with a doublevoter.
most non-normal thing about it is the neg-utility aspect imo, but i dont think theyd rule against that.
for now i think varsoon's play is more important to look at.

From your sister describing your scum meta to me and from how you reacted the last time you were scum and more than just one or two players piled onto you.

why does towncopper tell anti how he is going to see if hes scum?
surprise answer: he doesnt.
get it?

[Gorkington]

overexplain yourself harder scumsir.

i don't buy the claim

but i dont want this day to end.

[Gorkington]

probably wont be hard to convince people to wagon the villain of the game.
ill know the truth though.
and ill take that to my grave.

[Gorkington]

dam.
so it wasnt a reaction test.
that would have been cool.

[Gorkington]

is varsoon scumsaucy outside the claim?
i dont see it.

[Gorkington]

shit. if what house says is true then we've already caught a scum.
highfive everyone.

i'm hammering ON it. as in, focusing on examining the claim. i didn't say i hammered literally.

nice double meaning.
have you considered a career in poems?

[Gorkington]

do you think im arguing with him or making a dumb joke

[Gorkington]

sokay.
im just being dumb.
and possibly wrt house mixupness. i think i kind of look like him so i can see how people could get us mixed up.

what do you think of copper other then your interest in his reactions right now

[Gorkington]

could engage varsoon on that? why not?

[Gorkington]

are these thoughts you had before or things you noticed now on re-iso

[Gorkington]

is varsoonguy usually invested in scumgames?

[Gorkington]

These questions are ONLY for town

can i answer them anyways?

why are people setup speccing this early.
not saying varsoonguy isnt scum but jeze. there could be counterbalances in place to adjust for hated.

[Gorkington]

don't believe what anyone claims

now i dont believe your claim.
you should have seen this coming.

[Gorkington]

dammit.
i want to answer the questions but i dont know if im allowed to.

[Gorkington]

hi varsoonguy.
tell me your reads beyond just the lame setupfiends.

[Gorkington]

marquis is either a persistent sirscum or a persistent townguy. i think townguy though.

[Gorkington]

i want silverWOLF to have space to get back into game.
her annoyance was directed poorly but i dont think its scummy.

[Gorkington]

i want silverWOLF to have space to get back into game.
her annoyance was directed poorly but i dont think its scummy.

[Gorkington]

also hi guys copper is probably scum.
empty threats of policy lynching me while being all around super boringtastic with every interaction he makes.
cmonnnn.

varsoon wagon needs a delicious counterwagon and this is where it should be at.

[Gorkington]

two wagons is better than one.
think of all the things you can carry from point A to point B.

[Gorkington]

i like him too but why does that mean hes not scum?

[Gorkington]

i am truly quite spooky.

[Gorkington]

you can threaten my playstyle lungs if youd like.

tell me about your concern on me pisskop.
are you trying to look busy rn?

[Gorkington]

there are much higher profile nk targets than you so i will just deal with it.

[Gorkington]

Oh? like who?

you ignored me first so now im being petty.

[Gorkington]

im done being silly with you pisskop.

sakura has convinced me that she is town through careful buddying and because im dumb.

[Gorkington]

i would only shoot copper if we mislynch today.
he's on the other scumteam and i dont want them to get the upper hand just yet.

[Gorkington]

copcop, walk me through that last paragraph one more time except take a breath in between each sentence.

[Gorkington]

i refuse to move on.
i am determined. copper is taking his sweet time with answering his reasoning for his scumread which makes me think hes sitting there at his computer writing out a thought a hundred times trying to get it to look right so he doesnt look bad.

Copper is town

scum cant put effort into a game?

[Gorkington]

hes angry omgusing me but playing coy.
how dissonant.

[Gorkington]

yeahyeah.

[Gorkington]

doesnt doublevoter affect daystate in the same way?

[Gorkington]

like doesnt doublevoter require the same level of lylo clarification as hated does?

[Gorkington]

technically you kind of already did scream but okay.

im not sure i understand how it doesnt have a lylo clause but if im going to cause you a heart attack i will just hide away by myself.

[Gorkington]

im dumb apparently.
gonna stare at wiki until i stop being dumb.

[Gorkington]

VOTE: varsoon
happy birthday.

[Gorkington]

abr vote is fine for now.

im gonna go get copper during the night and show him the true meaning of pain.

[Gorkington]

if it makes you feel better shes buddying me too.
just embrace it. friends are fun.

[Gorkington]

where's the fire copper?
if you're so convinced that I'm scum then why is your passion for pushing me so weak.
i gave you the opportunity to clarify your read on me and you swatted it away.
you havent asked anyone else to look at me or make a case on me, so i ask you, what exactly is it that youre doing with your vote on me right now?
do you want to ask me questions or ask my for clarifications on things or are you just hoping to buy into towncred for the omgus?

[Gorkington]

youve betrayed my trust for the last time.
[thats actually hilarious if youre telling the truth

]

[Gorkington]

fact is that you could be using that metatell as scum to try and get sympathy.

[Gorkington]

ugh.
trying to wrap head around possible townVarsoon thought process here.

you hate claims right? why would you fake a claim when you hate the use of them so much and why wouldnt you try and dismantle momentum on your wagon through play before resorting to something so ridiculous?

[Gorkington]

ill address some other points but lets talk about this first:

you are scum

I said based on what I have seen of your play you are an excellent PL target, not that I am convinced you are scum, that's BS number 1.

is this a lie or are you being abstract and indirect about whatever it is youre talking about

[Gorkington]

You keep attributing emotional states to me to justify your points which you have no clue about, you said I was angry, coy, not passionate enough, I am sure there is some other nonsense in your ISO, where are you getting these information from?

you find me annoying. is it much of a stretch to say that you were at least annoyed when you made your response to me
is it incredibly outrageous for someone to call annoyed play==angry play?
you were absolutely playing coy when you said you wouldnt respond to serious questions.
and you weren't being passionate with trying to push for me. how you could even argue that is questionable at best.

[Gorkington]

Did you seriously just take a part of a post I used when quoting your logic for scumreading me and attribute it to myself in regards to you out of context?

this is what happens when you dont clarify when people ask you to.
silly.

[Gorkington]

i didnt know what the heck he was talking about in that post.
his own fault for not clarifying when i asked him to.

[Gorkington]

grrrr.
people make me angry.
now i know how people feel when they play with me.
grrrrrr.

[Gorkington]

gosh this is just bullshizzle.
copper refuses to explain his apparent non-scumread on me and then says im ridiculous for assuming that he was scumreading me when he wouldnt explain what he was talking about when i asked.
gosh.
gosh gosh gosh.
i probably deserve this for being a jerk but still. gosh.

[Gorkington]

copcop, walk me through that last paragraph one more time except take a breath in between each sentence.

you are funny I'll admit, I am not answering on purpose until you fix your form of address to others.

hi thor. this exchange happened.

[Gorkington]

curses.
i think i was just being a dufus here.
im sorry copper i will probably need to reread you now that i actually follow your breathless paragraph better now. please forgive me for my sins.

[Gorkington]

@Gorkinton
That is the best possible demonstration of my PL case on you, you are not reading the content of the posts (I ment in the sense of thinking about it but apparently literally as well) but instead trying to buzzword them into something scummy using frankly underhanded strategies like attributing emotional states to me in order to justify your statements.

hi.
i told you to elaborate on that post and you didnt. you get to be a total meanie like this when i misunderstand you and dont ask for clarification.

[Gorkington]

whos the one playing the game trying to figure out who scum is instead of making a lame policy lynch vote and ignoring questions?

I don't like the copper/gork back and forth, especially when Gork starts showboating and asking if Thor is seeing the exchange. Yes, Thor can read. I think Gork is trying to get Thor's fury on his side? Makes me feel like Gork's scum.

hi youre not reading the point of what i was saying.
which is probably dufusy of me to say but i dont care.

[Gorkington]

so copper, are you consoling yourself on the reasoning behind your vote on me in the off chance im town?
because if so im so coming to get you tonight if i dont get lamelynched today.

[Gorkington]

i just softclaimed my main at you.
i hope you realize how skrewed you are now

[Gorkington]

basically i dont believe youre being legitimate when you say youre trying to console yourself on the idea of town on the offchance i dont flip scum.

[Gorkington]

dont worry about it.
try and get me lynched today if you can.
for tonight, we dine, in heck!

[Gorkington]

Oh fuck it.
If my shitty alt playstyle is going to cause problems I'll just play normally.

I don't think I am who you think I am copper.

[Gorkington]

I'm legit sorry if people are actually mad with how I've been playing this game. I was trying out playing a character for fun and I feel like it just pissed people off.
Won't go into too much detail on what I was going for, but I feel like a piece of shit and feel like everyone's replacing out because I've been being a shithead this game.

[Gorkington]

Copper, you're mistaking me for someone else, given that I am in fact not female.

Antihero shouldn't replace out because I was more toxic than he was.

Still trying to parse through things.
Varsoon being preachy about how the good of the town will be negatively affected by his lynch feels like townVarsoon from AW, but I could really easily see it also being him trying to play up those kinds of interactions to garner sympathy and push scumreads off of himself. I probably need to devote some dedicated time to look through his ISO, but right now it feels like he's more invested in staying alive than he is in necessarily finding scum. That might be total horseshit though and is without fact-checking anything so eat shit in advance in calling me a misrepping jerk.

Otolia should chill with the insults @varsoon. Yeah the hated claim was dumb and if he's town I'm probably gonna cough at him, but that's no reason to hurl abuse at him.

ThorVCopper is interesting.
Thor's potshot at me was also interesting and reminded me a lot of Thor's scumgame. Of trying to make a big deal out of small details in a very logical way to create fake scumreads on people. I haven't played with townThor so I don't know if he's just very similar when he plays as scum so I'd be curious as to whether anyone else can shed some light on whether his towngame is equally nitpicky with little details.

FormerFish should catch up and do things. If he lurks then we should kill him.

Seohyun should come in and give added thoughts on Marquis now that he's started posting more. And really just more thoughts on more things in general would be nifty.

[Gorkington]

I'm amused that Varsoon is calling people on his wagon dumb after his hated claim.

I'm at a point where I logically think Varsoon is a nullread, but my gut is still unhappy with some little things he's said so far this game that're making me paranoid.

[Gorkington]

Anyone unvoting you just because you're pulling the sympathy card is just as likely to be a victim of manipulation.
Stop posturing like you're obvious town when you're not. -.-

[Gorkington]

Do you think Varsoon/Otolia together makes any kind of sense Sakura?
Because I don't.

[Gorkington]

Oka's probably town for how blatantly anti-town it is to be rolefishing here.

P-Edit:

@Flubb

, go on.

[Gorkington]

if he was scum he'd be lurking the hell out of this game

What makes you think this?

[Gorkington]

Why try so hard to push a scummate's fakeclaim that he's already retracted? It's one thing to try and and bus a scummate, but his thought process is too strange and directed to be coming from a place of "I am hoping to get towncred from this" when really what he's doing would clearly just confuse people.

[Gorkington]

I could see scumOtolia/townVarsoon situation in which Otolia thinks Varsoon might still be hated and be trying to get an easy lynch.
Do I think that's likely?
*shrug*
I kind of want to kill Varsoon on principle of him being cocky after fakeclaiming.
I might need a day or two to detach me being annoyed from my read on him though.

[Gorkington]

Sakura and notscience are both scum.
/thread.

[Gorkington]

Also I disagree with Anti about Oka.
Hopefully he doesn't get disappointed with me because of it.
Though Oka should say more words.

[Gorkington]

Stop buddying me sakura jfc.
You're lucky I have an appointment with Copper tonight or I'd get you instead.

[Gorkington]

Meh.
It'll probably be nice when people try to policy lynch me later.

[Gorkington]

Poo on you.
Speak more peasant.
Your lord Gork demands it.

[this is a joke don't be offended pls]

Tell me what you think about Sakura and her scummate notscience.

[Gorkington]

At least twice.

[Gorkington]

WHAT BORING READS YOU HAVE THERE OKA.
DO YOU WANT ME TO RESCIND MY WEAK TOWNREAD ON YOU OR WHAT?
HOLY MOLY.

Also stoppit sakura you're making me nervous with all of the mainhunting

[Gorkington]

Why are you townreading Sakura?

[Gorkington]

VOTE: elusive
Lets do it.

[Gorkington]

@Thor, more interested in gobbling up Varsoon at the moment if it's between the two choices you gave me.
I'm doing some private investigating on elusive in the meantime because I like being a detective on the side.
Plus I like being a hammer. If people get Varsoon to L-1 I would be the hero this game deserves.

[Gorkington]

Also, we shouldn't forget to murder Formerfish if he lurks. Capiche?

[Gorkington]

Meta-related to some extent.
I will elaborate more later because ooOoOooo subtlety.

[Gorkington]

Anti had such awkward movement on Silverdog and then back to me while bringing a whole lot of LYING MUST EQUAL SCUM and being very loud and obstinate about it

I personally think it's reasonable for any reaction to SilverWolf**** being kind of awkward given the context of the situation, no? Unless there's something more specific you're trying to frame here?

Could you also pull up clear examples of what you see as posturing in Anti's switch back to you?

I would appreciate it if peoples could give me their thoughts on elusive staying away from voting Varsoon while kind of weirdly supporting it and calling him town lying to town:

Varsoon, I have to say part of me really wants you dead now. I hate town lies to town. Not to say that I haven't done it but usually its been my life on the line and at that point when there is possibly no other option. On the most part it never works well for town, better to be evasive or crumb secretly through seeming fluff then to actually need to lie.

The reason I'm not voting Varsoon is not everyone in the game has posted yet or posted substantially.

I'm also trying to figure out why Varsoon would claim such a weird role as scum. What is the mindset behind it? Why not claim some vanilla type role?

I voted flubber because of pressure on him due to thinking he's possibly scummy. I'm not voting varsoon BC I don't want day to end when not everyone has posted.

Reads like scum nervous about joining a wagon while softpushing it. Especially since Varsoon wasn't even close to being lynched at the timing of the latter two quotes.

[Gorkington]

If elusive is scum it would make me lean on townVarsoon due to potential scumslip in first quote I pulled.
Which would be nice.

[Gorkington]

1So you think that Scum elusive would imply Town Varsoon?
2Would you think the opposite is true as well?
3Would you see both Scum in the scenario you quoted?

1Yes.
2&3I'm honestly not really sure.
I have a harder time imagining scumElusive talking down at scummateVarsoon for making a bad play as though he was town than I do imagining elusive casually slipping up when talking to someone she knows is town.

[Gorkington]

she-male fetish

Hm.

people there will be able to help you controlling those urges

Oh.

Hm.

[Gorkington]

I think I should be offended.
Maybe.
Hm.
I'll let you guys know if I figure it out.

Also, Varsoon don't you frikkin ignore me/ignore Thor asking you to pull up specifics of where you found Anti's switch on you to seem most like posturing.

[Gorkington]

Coulda said you just don't care about actually convincing us that Anti is scummy before instead of just ignoring us.

[Gorkington]

"I DONT WANT PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND MY THOUGHT PROCESS BUT I EXPECT THEM TO TOWNREAD ME ARBITRARILY FOR NO REASON"
-Varsoon 2012
*fireworks*
pewpewpewpewbam.

[Gorkington]

Are you not voting anyone right now?
Jeze.
Jezeeeeeee.

This game.

[Gorkington]

ok you actually got quotes ty
im just being mad because i havent eaten food today.
fuck.

[Gorkington]

I'm scum and incompetent.
That's why I still don't trust you.

[Gorkington]

Let's say you would vote someone right now and start a counterwagon.
IM NOT SAYING YOU HAVE TO IM JUST FRIKN CURIOUS.
Who is it.
Tell me about them and their life story unless it's anti in which case ok.

[Gorkington]

Oh hey look, it's general discussion mafia!

I'VE EXPRESSED THIS SUSPICION FOR A WHILE NOW PISSKOP THIS ISN'T OPPORTUNISTIC

Ew.

Lul.
Your text screams emotionally charged missrep, which I find incredibly terrible and scummy in general.

. but this says town

wtf. Are you joking?
VOTE: pisskop

[Gorkington]

People look at how fake pisskop is being.
Look at it.
Look at it in awe.
And then vote him.
Or tell me all about why FOD being a pizzashit is clearly scummy.
Or let's make an elusive wagon.

[Gorkington]

You could explain. Or IDK ask questions

Like, Why is my response fake?

This is not townpisskop reaction to what he sees as a shit vote on him.
You're playing too pisskop lite for my tastes.
Too much fucking fizz and not enough flavour.

[Gorkington]

Don't worry droog.
Copper's my pet project.

[Gorkington]

Do you think I should need to back it up?
Do you think you're playing like you normally do?

[Gorkington]

Let pisskop answer first and then I'll vaguely elaborate on what I expect from townPisskop so that I can keep up this illusion of being a mysterious alt.

[Gorkington]

I'm gonna get him tonight.

[Gorkington]

Nah.
Mafialand Mayhem.

[Gorkington]

Fake because Anti's vote there looks awkward.
That you'd start townreading him for that of all things looks fake.

I'm lazy so I'll pull examples of where I feel you're being especially fake vs realAuthentictownPisskola hopefully sometime tonight after schoolthings.
For now the general point is that your pushes have been underwhelming and your questioning feels uninvested and dry.

[Gorkington]

I'm gonna get Pisskop tonight.
Copper is town.

Good work night role peoples.

[Gorkington]

Is there a difference?
Only under some elaborate circumstances would Copper be scum.

[Gorkington]

Sure.
VOTE: Otolia

[Gorkington]

Gonna comment on main wagon elusive?

[Gorkington]

Is this game going back to making no sense?

[Gorkington]

Quit clowning around droog.
Seriously.
God.

[Gorkington]

I get it.
You're pretending that it's funny when it isn't.
Explaining jokes is fun.
c:

[Gorkington]

@house, lol?
Has he even talked to you once yet this game?

[Gorkington]

Oh you.

[Gorkington]

Aren't you supposed to be mad at me right now pisskop? Or are you distracted by how convenient Otalia wagon is?
Or are you just shitting your pants at me coming to get you N2?

[Gorkington]

I'm coming to get you N2 before then anyways.
By then it will be too late.

[Gorkington]

Mhmmm. RIP pisskop.

Seo and Boon reactions look a little weird on last page. Wouldn't be a bad place to look eventually.
Don't trust my ability to read elusive, but I still feel weird about her.

Too tired for words. Sleep.

[Gorkington]

But Thorgod, what about Otolia?

[Gorkington]

True.
Sakura's read on Otolia jumped around for reasons that are not entirely apparent though.

[Gorkington]

Also, didn't Anti point out that Sakura was doing that in the first place?
Or was it you?

[Gorkington]

Yeh it was Anti. Decided to not be lazy because droog would probably be sad at me if I was.
Why would Anti draw attention to his scummate not giving him the same treatment in the thread?
Doesn't make sense to me.

[Gorkington]

Maybe it was you? I just saw a quote from Anti asking Sakura something along the lines of: "why aren't you giving me the same buddying treatment?" mibad if you said something before that.

Flubber, Otolia, elusive are all good candidates for scum too.

Otolia is still doing nothing regardless and just wants to see Varsoon dead no matter what.

@Otolia:

Are you even reading.

what part of mod confirmed hated isnt a Normal role didn't you understand. That's why Varsoon came and admitted to lying, seriously, i don't know if you're being silly because scum or for the purpose of being silly, but i'm gonna go with the former since this has been your basis of doing literally nothing this day.

Two of your scumreads are based on no content which isnt a scumtell and yo u should know that

Yeah but flubber was calling Otalia on lack of content, when back then he had even less content.

What is the motivation for c laiming it as either alignment

Survivalistic obviously.
My Otalia scumread has evolved to "He just wants to lynch varsoon to verify a claim already verified by the mod" and im just going

Every mention of Otolia gives me the feeling that Sakura was annoyed with him because scummate playing badly in her eyes.

P-Edit: Okay slightly more convincing now.

[Gorkington]

Like, Sakura doesn't seem like the kind of person to fakescumread someone just for playing badly. I think she'd be trying to push scum-motivations behind his actions moreso instead of just being like "he's bad get him".

[Gorkington]

I'll dance through Anti/Sakura ISOs with that connection in mind later tonight.
Schoolthings for now.

[Gorkington]

I just remembered that FF replaced SilverWolf and now I'm really annoyed that I let someone guilt trip me that hard who may have just been trying to get townreads on replace-out. -.-

[Gorkington]

mmnemeonefincic's first post doesn't make me feel better about him.
Pisskop.
Tell me your thoughts and your feelings right now. Why did you switch from Otolia wagon?

[Gorkington]

Also why is Thor not a bad lynch choice?

[Gorkington]

I don't think I need to address it.
I think you should know why too.
[hint it's not because I'm avoiding the issue because I'm scum]

[Gorkington]

Who is scum then droog?

[Gorkington]

Also pisskop, Thor asked you clarify something before and you didn't 1233.
Why are you being so dodgy this game BRAH.

@Thor

, why make a big deal out of elusive not answering question but different VIP treatment for pisskop [aka ignoring him ignoring you?]

P-Edit: Droog. You're forgetting that copper is a part of my towncult now.

[Gorkington]

Copper is town.

Is there a difference?
Only under some elaborate circumstances would Copper be scum.

[Gorkington]

Yeah I know.
Don't really have one.
Anti case is okay but I'm scared of the idea of lynching him.

[Gorkington]

Here pisskop, let me impersonate what Thor will say to you:
Ahem.
I am Thor.
Anti pointed out to Sakura that she wasn't buddying him as much as she was others.
Sakura starts buddying Anti.
How is this convincing you that he's town?

[Gorkington]

Why did you switch from Otolia wagon?

Also why is Thor not a bad lynch choice?

While you're answering fakeThor's question to you, you should answer these too.

[Gorkington]

I'm not good with your vote though.
VOTE: Seohyun

Why did you take so long to get on this wagon given that you were on it on D1?
Why is slightly townreading ZZZX being off the only thing you have to say about him?
Are you going to be a bish like pisskop and ignore questions because you think you're better than everyone else in the game?

Let me know .

[Gorkington]

[Also, don't get mad pisskop, I'm just kidding. You're still not making it to D3 though.]

[Gorkington]

Because flipped scum hard buddied me?
Duh.

You're not supposed to reveal Sakura's strategy you jerk. Now people know that I'm scum too.

Gorky's being mean to me

You started it! Hnnnnnn.

If I could get a second pair of eyes on Seo's ISO that'd be amazeballs.
I find a lot of what he's said so far this game pretty empty and his hesitance to jump on Otolia D2 when he was on that vote all of D1 feels too cautious/might be a reaction to the nightkills.

[Gorkington]

Do you find it odd at all that he waited/acknowledged the Otolia wagon before getting on it if he was voting him for basically all of the latter half of D1 iirc?

[Gorkington]

FOS but you're not voting anyone? Why?

[Gorkington]

What do you think Seo's scumgame would be looking like comparatively, Marquis?
Also, is Seo a her? Mibad if I've been getting that mixed up.

[Gorkington]

Do you find it odd at all that he waited/acknowledged the Otolia wagon before getting on it if he was voting him for basically all of the latter half of D1 iirc?

Also, this is based on more than just 1350/1351.

[Gorkington]

also if Gork is scum I am thinking he more likely than not on a separate scum team than FF and sakura

Cultist reporting in.
Tell me about what you like about MD's case on notscience.

Oka reminded me that I forgot to respond to this earlier:

So you're arguing that they're not scumbuddies?
Okay.
I could buy that.

I was arguing that it felt like Sakura might have been annoyed at Otolia playing badly as her scummate and that may have been seeping in to her push on him.

[Gorkington]

Welcome to normal games my friend.

[Gorkington]

Tell me about what you like about MD's case on notscience.

Feel free to answer this too bae.

[Gorkington]

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Normal_Game

Mechanics which are explicitly Non-Normal include:

Those affecting a role's alignment

(no Cults)

.

I wonder whether I'm lying or not.

[Gorkington]

Fuzzy is playing so awkwardly that it makes my head spin trying to imagine him as town or mafia.
Zzzz.

[Gorkington]

Also jesus Fuzzy are you trying to ignore me?
I've asked you a question twice now.

Tell me about what you like about MD's case on notscience.

[Gorkington]

I've claimed that I'm also mafia several times.
If you're going to lynch me you should probably vote me for doing that.
Or maybe the fact that I didn't deny that I was serial killer when someone called me that on D1.

[Gorkington]

In all seriousness though, I have no idea where you're standing when it comes to notscience as of your last few posts because you basically hedged your entire argument on him. Do you think he's scum or not?
Why are you just focusing on my obvious jokeposts?

[Gorkington]

Don't worry Thor.
I'm here to be useless too!


VOTE: Antihero
Choo choo.

[Gorkington]

Have you read who Thor is pushing today and why, Fuzzy? If so I don't think you'd be posturing about Thor 'ignoring the scumflips'. zzzzz.

[Gorkington]

FWIW I think fuzzy is town out of this.

[Gorkington]

@Fuzzy I think you're being a lazy by putting the onus on everyone else to analyze the flips as though nobody has done that. I don't think there's been in-depth hardcore ISO analysis put into the thread, but I think it's pretty shallow analysis on your end to imply that everyone is ignoring the flips.

P-EDIT: I feel like noobscum wouldn't charge headfirst at you in such a brazen way.

PP-EDIT: Okay I have no idea anymore. Going back to Fuzzy makes my head hurt mode.

[Gorkington]

I keep wanting to call fuzzy new and then I look at his join date and it makes me scratch my head :s

[Gorkington]

If I'm totally honest, I just don't know if I can separate elusive's general playstyle from her literally changing the definition of the word 'case'. It certainly seems like the sort of thing at first glance that comes across as scum backtracking, but I'm not entirely sure if she's just being elusive or not if that makes sense?
Which I know is uncommitted, but I look at elusive and feel like I can toss a coin and be equally confident as to which side it lands on as I am what her alignment is atm.

Ika's defense of her reads genuine to me, despite the melodrama attached to it.

[Gorkington]

shet.

[Gorkington]

*starts melting*

[Gorkington]

Like, let's say that she meant "case" *exactly* as stated. That "case" involves me talking about Choof, and that it was terrible.
She literally cited examples of this as me answering questions she asked me about Choof.
Meaning that, in her mind, it was scummy that I talked about Choof when asked (by her) about Choof.

I have a real hard time swallowing that one in the context of a 'she a little silly in her definitions' defense.
Thoughts?

He made a terribly bad case against choof and then went into minutiae with me over it which some people pointed out was his scum meta. Now he needs to start making logical, strong cases. That is what town does

By case I meant that most of your discussion revolved around choof or copper because of his comments on choof. So it seemed like you were using choof as some sort of way to figure out scum or something whether in me or copper.

Like, the two elusive quotes clearly look like a lie when juxtaposed against each other. So I'm there with you on that it's probable that elusive is scum and had a massive fuck up here. I'm not convinced though, that this isn't "I need to justify my actions afterwards and twisting the facts is okay if it protects me" townElusivemode because whether you like it or not, that feels pretty plausible to me. In the off chance that her definitions are somehow just hilariously strange, I don't necessarily find it smoking gun either, given that the point you're making about her asking you questions about choof seems a bit like a mistake on her end. Is it not probable that in her mind she thought you were talking a lot about choof while forgetting that she'd asked you questions about choof? I imagine she probably skimmed your ISO for quotes on choof/copper when doing so, right?

Point being, I think elusive is scummy, but I also don't think it's as cut and dry as you're making it look and I have a built-in hesitance to buying any borderline semantic-based Thor argument. So.. yeah. I'd like to see more from her in general before pushing a wagon there. In any case, I think you'll struggle selling the case you've built in an accessible way in general anyways, so you probably will want more substance from her before even trying to push a wagon there in the first place.

I'd also like to sink into your town meta at some point when I have some more time so I can get a better idea of whether I can trust what you're spittin' here, yafeel?

though I can accept one insane person - two strikes me as likely containing scum, yeah?

Lol. No. You even trying to imply that ridiculous shit=scum worries me. Don't do that shiet.

I need to meta too many people and I don't have enough time. *cries*

[Gorkington]

That's usually the point where you hop off the fence and offer your own thoughts though. You kind of hedge this debate the whole way through.

Point being, I think elusive is scummy

Yeah, totally hedging my read on her and not just explaining why I'm not hard scumreading her vs somewhat scumreading her. If I can see a potential town mindset behind something someone is doing, then I'm not going to scumread them as hard as someone doing something that I simply can't imagine town doing. I can imagine townElusive playing like this. Thus her scummy behavior isn't as clearly coming from a scumslot as you keep saying it is, at least from my POV.

Is it not probable that in her mind she thought you were talking a lot about choof while forgetting that she'd asked you questions about choof?

I see absolutely no reason to believe this - do you?

Yeah because bad play is never caused by bad play and is always just because scum, right? If she was skimming [which you've agreed with was the case]/seems like she isn't super committed into the game then why are you so damn sure that she didn't just make a mistake? I really don't get how you can't see how you find it so improbable that she might have just skimmed her quotes and forgot she asked you questions about choof.

So I don't think it actually matters what yu think she believes "case" meant, what matters is if you think she could be town in either instance.
I'll agree the case involves the definition of a word - I'll disagree that it is based on that definition rather than the actions and, fairly clear lies, that took place.

You think I shouldn't be hesitant when I find your thoughts on her to be a little too directed and strong for what she's actually done? If I feel like someone's case on someone could be opportunistic scum trying to push me in a shitty direction I'm going to be a little more wary.

Lol. No. You even trying to imply that ridiculous shit=scum worries me. Don't do that Smurf.

Why not?

Bad play is not inherently scummy. You've been playing on this site for longer than I have. I don't know how you can pretend that people can't be illogical/make huge fuck-ups and not be town.

[Gorkington]

Eh.
I think I might just be being overly paranoid about my hesitance of following you because of ~reasons~ that aren't actually all that important.
I do think you're being a little too strong about something that doesn't strike me as being all that convincingly scummy though.

[Gorkington]

I find his questions unlike what his playstyle as town would be from my personal experiance... they feel too lacking tbh

Can you pull examples of what you feel are good examples of this?

[Gorkington]

Oh, come on now, the sentence you quoted was followed by a "but" and even in this answer you're sitting on a fence.

Please elaborate on how I'm sitting on a fence when I literally explicitly say with real life words in the true timeline of this universe that elusive is a scumread of mine that I'm just not incredibly confident in.
Do you really think my reasoning here is just defending her and not me trying to express why it isn't a read that I'm confident in/me trying to engage you to figure out why your read on her is so much more confident than mine?

Hold up now - I agreed that she skimmed *my iso to pull up quotes*
I did not say she was skimming the entire game, nor do I think that if she was it somehow justifies her stated belief as regards me.
Do you? How does that work if so? If not - what is the point of this?

Do you think her play thus far indicates that she's super invested into this game? I'm under the impression that she's in a few right now and I'm also under the impression that we're not seeing elusive's strongest performance levels atm.

I absolutely see no reason to believe that - literally her conversation with me was 90% of her input into this game.
Feel free to call me wrong on that and back it up, but it is ILLOGICAL to think that, in my opinion, unless your theory is that she has the memory of a goldfish or something.
I think she was even citing that conversation with me *while calling me scummy for having it* so, no, she knew what she was saying in that regard.
Why do you think she maybe doesn't?

Again, it's based on what I feel is her level of commitment in the game and based on how many games I feel like she's playing in. I just perceive that regardless of what her alignment is, she's not invested.

Being hesitent is worlds different from calling my case "semantics based".
Feel free to pick one and clarify which you believe. I feel like you're changing the tone and form of your answer here.

You're right. I'm trying to put into words exactly what's bothering me about you and I think calling my worries semantics based was probably unfair, however I still don't feel entirely solid about you/your confidence level as a whole. My reads feel super weak right now, so for you to look at me and call me illogical for not having a strong opinion on someone who I find hard to read just feels off to me.

You already had me happily admitting that I don't see them as likely partners and even have a belief that one is likely town.
That does not overrule the concept that a stated bad play *plus* an immediate sheep on it is sketchy.
Town are, in my opinion, more likely to analyze an attack.

Scuma re more likely to see an easy attack.I think play on this site fully and easily supports this belief and, if you really want, can assuredly show me as town using this method and can more than likely show me being correct using it as well. So don't throw empty commentary about what I do or don't believe in my face unless you can back up my supposed beliefs.
This is a valid thought process.

Firstly, this is a long journey from:

though I can accept one insane person - two strikes me as likely containing scum, yeah?

Which looks a lot more to me like you're saying "illogical/bad play is inherently scummy!" and I get super wary of whenever anyone uses that as an argument.
Also, I really disagree that scum are going to be making easy attacks right now.
Honestly my head kind of hurts trying to fully explain my thoughts right now/tracing all of the points you're talking about here and I'm not sure if I'm being unreasonable or just being stupid here so I kind of want to take a step back and read over everything you're saying again.

[Gorkington]

I'm going to reply to this and then go to school and not look at mafia for a bit to hopefully clear my head, but the firstly was intended to be followed by more things and then I just kind of went "fuck it all I give up for now". c:

[Gorkington]

Someone who isn't bad talk with Thor about elusive.

[Gorkington]

He wants someone good at the game to talk to about his thoughts on her.

[Gorkington]

I want to say that statistically speaking it's more likely to be SK & mafia.
Chances of 2/3 mafia off the same team dying out of 19 players in a single night is pretty unlikely, no?

@Thor

, just needed to have a moment of snark to make me feel better. Don't mind me.
Will read through stuff you've said about elusive, but I'm probably not going to engage you on it because I honestly don't really want to anymore. If you want to ask questions about anything I've said, be my guest though.

[Gorkington]

@mnem, Pretty sure I was on Varsoon wagon.
Pretty sure I've voted for other people too.
*checks current vote*
Yup.

Pretty sure NS was on FOD/started that push so that's also just not true.
People voting for Varsoon at one point or another isn't even remotely surprising to me. Why is it surprising to you?

@Thor

, the primary beef of why you're voting for Anti is that Sakura didn't buddy him before you pointed it out, right?
What about these two quotes?

everyone's pissed at me

I'm not <3

Speaking of reads, im currenty town reading antihero due to his setup spec debate actually, his annoyance seems legit if he's town due to the hated claim (I have meta reasons for townreading him too but i'll leave that on the table for now as it'd be better to see who actually scumreads him).

Can you also give me your thoughts on the fact that MD forgot about NS's push for FOD given that MD made a huge wall analysis of everything NS had done on D1?

@Anti

, I get the angle of being discouraged after a townread flips scum, but I'm not really super okay with the fact that you're playing in such an underwhelming manner right now. What gives yoh?

[Gorkington]

Speaking of reads, im currenty town reading antihero due to his setup spec debate actually, his annoyance seems legit if he's town due to the hated claim (I have meta reasons for townreading him too but i'll leave that on the table for now as it'd be better to see who actually scumreads him).

Isn't this her reading him?

I dunno why you're pointing out something like that wherein you must know my answer is *snarl*.

I'm trying to see if your reasoning for scumreading elusive would extend over to MD for doing something similar. Obviously it's to a lesser extent, but I think parallels can be drawn, yes?

[Gorkington]

Glad to know that Thor's general MO for the rest of this game is going to just be "I'm going to shit on you if you try and interact with me ever".
Will save myself some grief in the future by just naked voting you if I think you're scum and ignoring you if I think you're town.

[Gorkington]

Just annoyed that it feels like you're treating me like I'm stupid when I'm trying to get a read on you and getting what feels like abuse over it just makes me want to give up on trying. You're right that I was mainly trying to get a fuller picture of what you're currently thinking right now/I was trying to clarify whether your stance on Anti had significant substance behind it or not.
Bleh.
I shouldn't post when I'm in a bad mood.

[Gorkington]

Whatevs.
I don't think this conversation is productive.
ika, what do you think of anti right now? Why aren't you voting anyone, sir?

[Gorkington]

Don't Lynch Today

pisskop

Give some words on this please.

While Thor not being ridiculously hardcore with his push for Anti is a little bleh, Anti playing all coy about addressing it and just resorting to underhanded shit-tossing at Thor while ignoring the majority of his case on him looks way worse.

[Gorkington]

Any reason you're liking Antilynch over MDlynch then?

[Gorkington]

TBF I'm pretty sure Marquis has been calling Anti town for a while iirc. I wouldn't mind him elaborating on why Anti's latest behavior is striking him as being normal townAnti behavior though.
Marquis should answer my last question to him as well.

[Gorkington]

Gathering associative tells for after you flip scum.
Duh.

[Gorkington]

Why is elusive on your 'would lynch' list then?

[Gorkington]

Gotcha.
Antithoughts would be great now.

@droog, it makes sense to you, but you're voting for copper.
*scratches head*

P-Edit: Eh.
Eh.
Let's not have more dumb drama this game. As hypocritical as I am for saying that.

[Gorkington]

hi marquis talk about Anti being town more kthnx.
His dodgy response to Thor seems normal to you?

[Gorkington]

@droog, it makes sense to you, but you're voting for copper.
*scratches head*

Scratch that. I'm dumb.
I'm still baffled at the copper vote though.

[Gorkington]

Fuzzy.
Use your words.
Why is Anti>MD?
Why are you talking more about Marquis's read on him than about Anti himself? That's just gross.

[Gorkington]

Everyone in this game is scum.
Calling it now.

[Gorkington]

I really don't read Anti's latest exchanges with Thor as being genuine. Or at least they're not as invested/snarky as you seem to be implying @marquis.

Thanks for the scumslip.

You're welcome. Let me make it more explicit for when you want to vote me later: I'm the cultist leader.

[Gorkington]

Zzzz.
And you're seriously convinced that he isn't faking snark like that here? Enough that you'd be willing to pass him up in a LyLo situation if that's what we were in?

[Gorkington]

VOTE: mnemonicdevice
Let's get a claim.

I'm going to be mad at you if you're town and you defended scum this hard Marquis >:(

[Gorkington]

You're a wagon. Slightly scumreading you. There's not a huge amount of time left in cycle.
Sheeping Thor's logic of wanting early claim because discussion of that would create stronger stances and give more time to gauge reactions.