Open 595: Elemental Mafia (Town Wins!)

[farside22]

Vote: nemonic

Saying myself from your bad play.

[farside22]

Vote: nemonic

Saying myself from your bad play.

Everybody can improve, right?

I was also a horrible player back then..... But with some more experience, I manage to play Mafia properly.

when!?!?
I would pay someone to fix players that are anti town.

vote: Bella

first gut scum read

[farside22]

I say gut mostly because it's hard to explain what I feel when I read in someone's post.
In the case of bela it stiles me as fake and trying too hard.
I read fake posting as scummy but sometimes I know it's all in how you read a post so it gets reduced to gut then fact.

[farside22]

flubber is now a scum read. I don't recall him trying hard to find a purpose to keep is vote on a player (yes meta)
Still think bela is scum. non reaction and newb = scum in my book

[farside22]

flubber is now a scum read. I don't recall him trying hard to find a purpose to keep is vote on a player (yes meta)
Still think bela is scum. non reaction and newb = scum in my book

can you explain how bella's iso is fake but con's isn't?

Can you explain why con reads fake? All I've seen you mention was his vote so far.
But I'll review con when I get home and see if I see anything there.

At faq: please explain wagon going fast on Flubber to voting him for what I read as I reason.

[farside22]

Meh reread conman to see and I see a bit fake ness to his post. Seems wordy without needing to be wordy in some cases.

[farside22]

“as I reason?”

I do not understand what you are exactly asking. I assume it is about my vote.

I did not vote in my first one because I thought more people had voted flubber and wanted to know where he was before placing my vote. I realized after I posted that the VC was right there and there was only one vote added after. I was mistaken when I thought he had a fast developing wagon – there just seems to be some interest there.

Your post seemed like the wagon on him was fast, but you never explained what you found scummy or why a concern for a fast wagon.

[farside22]

Reading the back and forth here between ric and lane, I get what lane is saying about being satisfied with the response and ric keep pushing, the rest I got lost on and the whole town choof read I just rolled my eyes at

[farside22]

“as I reason?”

I do not understand what you are exactly asking. I assume it is about my vote.

I did not vote in my first one because I thought more people had voted flubber and wanted to know where he was before placing my vote. I realized after I posted that the VC was right there and there was only one vote added after. I was mistaken when I thought he had a fast developing wagon – there just seems to be some interest there.

Your post seemed like the wagon on him was fast, but you never explained what you found scummy or why a concern for a fast wagon.

I clearly explained my reasoning. I gave 2 reasons – the opportunistic move to get a wagon and stating he would move his vote if he got another scum read without giving any motivation to go with it.

As far as fast wagons, they tend to be town because no one is actively resisting them and they can get a lynch before we are ready for one. There is always one "anti-town" townie that is willing to hammer an L-1 for the scum team without reason. That screws town over pretty hard.

I don't see how the second part is scummy.


Bored people can vote bela with me to see if she does something or continue crap posting.

[farside22]

Sorry brain check out.
I'm back now. Trying to catch up.

[farside22]

Sorry, I just didn't feel like reading anything lately.

I'm giving it a go now.

[farside22]

Phone posting so general comments made here as I read.

Senator is a strong town read for me.

Plot feels like just doing busy work to look active.

@bela: hi! Nice of you to join here. I did say something about con's post already.
As for my reads. Plot I said just above. I'm paranoid about Flubber being active because I don't recall him as an active player so he's more just on my to be watched list. Choof is a town read.
What are your reads on everyone thus far?

@flubber: it does read fake. Sorry that it wasn't clear.

@lane: I'm poking players I find scummy for reaction to get reads. It's how I work best.
Asking innane questions and barely responding to those questions is a scumtell in my book.

I'll make a longer post after catch up on what I read as fake for bela and con next.

I always thought fake and fluff was about the same. Close to it.

Puts ric under wtf category.

Wrong song is leaning town read.

Lane is probably town.

Ric moves to scum read.

Plot's 230 makes me feel slightly better about him.

Bela: why does con and lane read as scum?

Vote: conman

Reason why next post.

[farside22]

First is why I'm scum reading conman and includes being too wordy post.

First was post 44
Making excuses about not having reads, innane chatter here.

this post caught my attention because of post 44 he is talking about the purpose of rvs but isn't really using it to formulate reads.

post 109 way to say nothing of value.


iso post 158, 118, 160, ect more innane chatter to look active.

To date still no scum reads this game.

[farside22]

@bela:
This post rubbed me wrong because 2 out of 3 questions where pointless.
You come across as unsure what to say or ask when you make post like this.
As I said after my vote your lack of reaction caught my attention.
Very unnewb like reaction.

Choof, why so excited for deadline?
Ric, you town?
lane, what do you think people are disliking about post 23?

[farside22]

I I'm paranoid about Flubber being active because I don't recall him as an active player so he's more just on my to be watched list.

No that's not how meta works at fucking all

Did i call you scum for it?
no
Did I say town for it?
No

just someone I would keep an eye on.

IE: uncertain

[farside22]

Your arguments against players and their reads is nitpicky stuff.
Expample.

187 can for all intents and purposes be condensed into one, and your last point isn't related to asking about reads. But if you counted it that way then fine.

Song, you're being very picky with your responses as I assume you've read the thread. For example, Bella already stated 10 was an RVS joke. And why are you skirting around me vs lane despite taking a stance on us both?

wrong took a stand I don't see why you need them to talk about lane and you argument.

Yeah Bella is weirding me out... she's asked people for reads or who they think is scum exactly 8 times among other questions posed.

That's bullshit. I counted around half as many instances. Six the second time, and that was being generous.

You have a point anyway, but this is blatant exaggeration to make Bella look worse.

This was pushing a false window to make someone look scummy. Again it reads as just nitpicking post instead of scum hunting.

I took a stance on both. I'm voting Lane and I like Ric for town. How is that not 'taking' a stance???

Yeah, I said you took a stance. That's why I asked you why you avoided mentioning me vs lane.

I think only I really said anything about the lane vs you argument so I'm wondering why you are attacking wrong for this repeatedly?

[farside22]

Basically I Ric when you attack someone it reads as just attacking anything they say instead of trying to figure them out. I see attacking more from scum then town when it comes to play style.

[farside22]

Basically,

I

Ric, when you attack someone it reads as just attacking anything they say instead of trying to figure them out. I see attacking more from scum then town when it comes to play style.

better grammar post above.

one day post preview.
one day

[farside22]

101

Intitial reaction to my read on you.

Basically, Ric, when you attack someone it reads as just attacking anything they say instead of trying to figure them out. I see attacking more from scum then town when it comes to play style.

I think I see what Flubber was talking about now. What are you saying? Town doesn't attack their scumreads?

What do you call figuring someone out?

Questioning a player, trying to figure out what they mean.
It's easy to look back and verify post as either alignment, figuring what the purpose is, that's another thing altogether.
I mean frankly I don't go back and use exact number I estimate and give a round about number.
Example: bela asked players multiple times to give reads but provided very little to none.

Nothing untruthful there, so a hyperbole number really means nothing to me.

[farside22]

Not ignoring the rest of you, just got pulled away.
Will be back

[farside22]

Farside, what was my post 244 if not a provision of reads? I thought I made it clear: I suspect flubber and Bella.
I'm also not sure I understand your issue with me being too "wordy". I think I misunderstood previously when you first expressed this concern. If your issue is with my register, there's not a whole heap I can do to change it. That's just my writing style.
Ric, with regards to town reads; I've been trying to read you and lane, but I'm not getting much there. I reckon FA_Q2 is probably town. His suspicions of me are based on something more solid than misinterpreted jokes. He's also been following flubbed, so there's that too.
To far side again, I'd be interested in hearing what you think makes senator town. I feel like he probably is, but reading over his ISO, I'm not really sure why.
Lots of nulls and insures. I'd also love if our four absentees could lend their voices, but that'll come in time.

I thought 44 was wordy and the post you mention next is wordy as well.
But sure lets talk about your reads.
One post from Flubber is mentioned in the post below.

I've invited a lot of unnecessary suspicion onto myself. Perhaps I can help to dispell that. I have also learned the jokes aren't allowed in games on this website. Every person in this game, for example, who has made any sort of attempt at humour, has been scum read by some or other person. Pity, but oh well.
Moving on:
Still feel strongly that flub is scum. From his entrance onwards, he's come after me in a manner which I feel is an attempt to disguise an OMGUS vote.

Also I don't like him explaining himself so much

Stuff like this. If you address a concern to someone, standard convention dictates that they answer it. "I ask him stuff and he answers. What the hell man?" That reads as utter nonsense. Of course I'm going to explain myself. That's the point of addressing me; to hear my explanation of behaviours. This argument is foundless.

Also, re: mis formatted vote, read post zero:

Votes may be either bolded or placed in a vote tag. If I think it is a vote I will count it.

That I messed up vote tag would indicate I was trying to vote. I had no reason to assume that wouldn't be obvious.

Awesome so you're rvs'ing to fuck around and not to scumhunt by your own admission

But being a douche makes you right so idk

You falter in your arguments so you attack your opponents. Nice. I can see the validity of your argument since you have to resort to calling your opponent a douche to maintain it.
There's also the comments about sheeping, and constant beckoning to join the wagon.

Then there's Bella. Slightest bit of scrutiny and hey look, better catch the ConMan wagon! It looks a lot like you're just deflecting people from yourself to me. I don't like that, you're my second scum read. This was noticed by one or two players, but largely ignored.

It's difficult to read people when they're mostly just agreeing with eachother. In this I'm at a disadvantage; not many people are responding to questions because things are largely directed at me. I will say I'm town-leaning a couple of people, but nothing solid enough that I'd deem it worth mentioning.
At this point, the most useful thing I think I can do is to ask you for your thoughts on this and to throw any additional questions my way. I will answer them, unless flubber objects. Probably not immediately as I intend to catch some Z's now.

To continue it is basically not moving on beyond the RVS discussion from Flubber.
What about his most recent post reads scummy to you?
Your scum read on Bella is basically OMGUS.

So yea
no impressed

[farside22]

Oh yeah, the reason I logged on. Super satisfied with my Bella vote after a little research

why?

Phone posting so general comments made here as I read.

Senator is a strong town read for me.

Plot feels like just doing busy work to look active.

@bela: hi! Nice of you to join here. I did say something about con's post already.
As for my reads. Plot I said just above. I'm paranoid about Flubber being active because I don't recall him as an active player so he's more just on my to be watched list. Choof is a town read.
What are your reads on everyone thus far?

@flubber: it does read fake. Sorry that it wasn't clear.

@lane: I'm poking players I find scummy for reaction to get reads. It's how I work best.
Asking innane questions and barely responding to those questions is a scumtell in my book.

I'll make a longer post after catch up on what I read as fake for bela and con next.

I always thought fake and fluff was about the same. Close to it.

Puts ric under wtf category.

Wrong song is leaning town read.

Lane is probably town.

Ric moves to scum read.

Plot's 230 makes me feel slightly better about him.

Bela: why does con and lane read as scum?

Vote: conman

Reason why next post.

Hi far I'm interested in your plot read, because initially I thought the same as you, started to change my mind with her last big post, and am now kinda null on her. Same for fa. Conman is a scum-read, think wrong/flub and probably ric are town, and don't feel I've got enough data for a senator read (or anyone else, really).

As said above, I'm now unsure on lane. I think I need to stop looking for associations before flips.

I can't remember what I read about plot. I will look back to remind myself what I was thinking at the time.
I just remember the last post I read came across well and original thought process.

@bela:
This post rubbed me wrong because 2 out of 3 questions where pointless.
You come across as unsure what to say or ask when you make post like this.
As I said after my vote your lack of reaction caught my attention.
Very unnewb like reaction.

Choof, why so excited for deadline?
Ric, you town?
lane, what do you think people are disliking about post 23?

I am a newb, though, which probably explains why I am coming across as unsure. I'm trying to improve my town-game...you don't have to answer, but what kind of reaction were you expecting? I was curious about choof's slightly spammy posting, lane was a serious question (I assume you agree) and ric was a stupid joke. So, I should stop making stupid jokes. Noted.

[/quote]

funny story.
The short end is one of the other sites I was playing on had some rules on how to play as scum. One rule was never to react to a vote, even one vote, because it was considered scummy.
Here on MS I see newb act more emotional and defensive when a vote is cast on them for mystery reasons.

[farside22]

Ric: I'm sorry, your track record for finding scum is what exactly?
Should I start deeming your reason for scum specting players too?
Please let me know.

This is me not responding to your second question since all you want to do is bitch about my reasons

[farside22]

I'm not sure what the issue is with 44, but hey, to each his own and all that.
I think it's unfair to dismiss my suspicions of Bella as an OMGUS purely because she has voted for me. Look at her vote on me: it's very opportunist, and as soon as she drops it, she slithers away from people's suspicions. Speaking very frankly, it's a pain in the arse feeling like you can't provide an opinion on someone because it'll be dismissed out of hand on this basis. I'm also not the first to point out how convenient her vote was.

She didn't slither. That is very misrep's a player big time.

@farside, because what I read is in line with how I'm reading her now.

@ricastle... what? why did i think there were more than one faction? Cause I was just thinking the fire water and whatever other one were not teammates. What's the difference why I thought that?

Your going to have to explain more then that.

[farside22]

Well I'm not moving from con so.....

Bela: can you explain why ric reads town.

[farside22]

With people town reading ric, I wonder if he just rubs me the wrong way with his personality.
That happens with me from time to time.

[farside22]

It's REVEREND TIME!!!

Well actually it will be after I've slept.

Sup farside. It's DOMO. Fill me in. Who's scummy?

Conman.

[farside22]

Tbh, I suggest a policy lynch of a lurker d1. Town that doesn't contribute should be gotten rid of and if they happen to be maf it's a bonus.

Bzzzz
No info lynch helps no one but scum.

[farside22]

Hi bbt, I want you to be town this game.
I don't mind your vote since conman is scum, but......

[farside22]

Well I'm not moving from con so.....

Bela: can you explain why ric reads town.

Fair enough. Are you done with your Bella scum read then?

Yup.

I'm putting her more towards town pile.

[farside22]

At what point did she turn from your scum read to defending her And calling her town?

So you think Bella slithered away? If so why?

My last catch up post I started null read based on her response and then further responses from her moved her to town.

[farside22]

@Bela: My read for flubber is just based on playing with the guy in some games. He's hasn't been the push, talkative type in any game we've played but when he has a scum read and starts figuring things out he is good.

I'd almost put money on flubber as the SK this game. It's not for sure ah ha moment but something that would not shock me in the least.

Bbt: what do you think about conman?

[farside22]

That's nice.

[farside22]

Bbt: there is nothing weak about my points. I've see scum struggle for reads because they don't know how to do fake reads.
Offering nothing but innane chatter and only showing up to defend yourself....yah the day that's something town does and not scum I'm quitting mafia.

[farside22]

Leaning scum to reading scum on Bella still. Still think it was a sidestep.

Bbt: you seriously call this crap town? ^

[farside22]

Yes.

Why is Bella town?

You realize con hasnt examined his scumread on her and could be buddying you right?

Why Bella is a town read.

post 162 noting things going on in the game. This shows me she is paying attention and noting things.

post 239 I like that she is self aware. It does come from either alignment by the way.

post 273 is exactly what I was noting from conman.

[farside22]

Conman hasn't awnsered questions asked to him.

Just saying

[farside22]

What?

162 is a bad post. They're questions that she doesn't follow up on. What things does she note? She literally asks for people's thoughts; that's it.

She also attempts to deflect onto Con.

OK, so you're saying self-awareness is a null tell but you're using it to town read her? I'm lost.

That's it? Con's lack of content... I can probably name at least 3 players with less content than Con. Con was lynch bait, easy target for scum.

I would love to get two competing wagons going; one on Con and one on Bella so you're more than welcome to stay on him. But you should know that he isn't getting lynched.

How is 162 bad? She's expressing her thoughts about the game and what she saw going on.

Because newb

Let's name no reads noted Vettrock and conman. Who is the 3rd?

[farside22]

Ah papa bear. I keep forgetting about him.

He's there as my PL.

[farside22]

That's all you're choosing to respond to? 'Because newb' doesn't cut it. Newbscum are much more likely to be careful with how they play so I'm not seeing that at all.

What thoughts is she expressing?

You didn't say no reads. You said no content.

Newb is almost always self aware more as town.
You want to show me scum newb self aware more often? Please let me know I'm big on researching things.

Did you read 162?

[farside22]

Ric: I've explained my reason for changing my read on Bella.

Who is pisskop? Is it senator?

[farside22]

I have.

But she doesn't outright state a read on her.

Especially in her posts where she states reads on players in the game. Instead, she defers to asking Bella questions.

I was scum reading bela at the start.
During my catch up bela moved from scum to null. The questions were to get more info.

[farside22]

And I'm just going to point out since rvs conman hasn't pushed any scum read on anyone or questioned too much to establish reads.

Bbt: I'm going to refer you to my first line of my dig right now and tell you if I'm right and your wrong that I hope you feel it.

[farside22]

Yea. Hi farside, domo, and Flubber!

You son of a biscuit!

*Mmmmm wonders if I should reread senator in new light.*

[farside22]

Why?

Because.

Seriously I won't be doing it. I was just pondering it for a moment.

[farside22]

353 - Can you expand on this read Flubber. I can see it but want to know why you're scum reading her.

Her scumread on me is bullshit and she can't keep coherent as is. I can see farside looking for an easy mislynch out of me

That's why I'm pushing a lynch and cLalling you scum right now.

Wait no I'm not doing that at all.

[farside22]

353 - Can you expand on this read Flubber. I can see it but want to know why you're scum reading her.

Her scumread on me is bullshit and she can't keep coherent as is. I can see farside looking for an easy mislynch out of me

That's why I'm pushing a lynch and cLalling you scum right now.

Wait no I'm not doing that at all.

Okay but that's not refuting your read is bullshit but keep trying to be condescending to discredit me

I called you scum once.
I've moved you to null with wouldn't be shocked if you were sk.
I'm not pushing your lynch or making a case I'm making notes.

Not refuting shit, other then I'm not voting or pushing for your lynch, which is fact

[farside22]

Not refuting shit

Nice snip.

What's your point?

[farside22]

I agree with you about papa bbt, I'm just bugged that plot just sheeped you.
I need to recheck something.

[farside22]

Okay never mind I forgot about his list and reads there.

I still think conman is scum.

Vote: papi

[farside22]

sadly I think the rev maybe scum after all.

[farside22]

sadly I think the rev maybe scum after all.

Why sadly? If you are town and think you have caught scum, you should be happy.

Why do you think I'm scum? Why haven't you, the only person here who knows my game, told toffee that actually I am the kind of person who would openly speculate about SK as town? Toffee is applying a universal read to me, that you should know to be flawed. Alarm bells are ringing here farside.

Because it's you and I missed you.

It has nothing to do with the SK speculation.

[farside22]

Aw bless you missed me? I'm touched.

Farside, put yourself in my scum shoes. What's the first thing I do if I replace into a scum slot?

I don't recall if you replaced in a spot by scum we've been in so no clue.

I'll not wait for your reply.

First thing I do when I replace into a scum slot is to ISO my predecessor, just to see if he left me in the shit. That would take an acute awareness of who I replaced.

Speaking of inactives, Spartan is V/LA until tomorrow I think, and hasn't been able to check in. He's got coursework deadlines.

I realise conman has explained this comment, and the explanation seems good, however it might not be honest. This is certainly worth looking into again if either of them flip scum.

Now, tell me, did I forget who I replaced? Or did I derp this shit up so I could use it in my defence?

I'd like to think I could do that, actually.

Hell yea you would.
Hell I would do that as scum. I never remember things always so it works in my favor sometimes.

[farside22]

I started to ISO you but it's really hard to get any sense of context seeing as I'm not fully in this yet. You're very town toned, but then again I'm not even sure if I've seen you as scum. You're super fast to scumread me though, and you won't explain why, so you're making me nervous.

I don't recall you holding back your vote when your scum reading someone.
You didn't like papi but your holding back to let him finish.
That's something I expect someone to say because they think town would say it, when lately town gives two shits if they are scum reading the player.

[farside22]

That didn't get the point across I intended.

Why are you in a hurry to get a lynch? There's 5 days left, there's no hurry. It's obvious papi is the lynch.

You know where the day is going, I'm not sure where the hesitation comes from other then your desire to catch up. But here you are chatting away instead of catching up.
You obviously have the time so....???

[farside22]

Also Domo, I think you and I have been from start to finish in a game.
I could be wrong, but I can't recall a single game you replaced into that I was part of.

[farside22]

I could be wrong, but I can't recall a single game you replaced into that I was part of.

My memory isn't the best. I've played a fair few times with you, and I've subbed into tons of games, but maybe not one you were in.

Yes I'm chit chatting instead of catching up. I actually don't like catching up, it's boring. And when it comes to you, I feel like I'm going to get better reads on you through interaction than I am from reading up. Casual chatting is easy, it's not work. I don't even get much from my read through, other than to familiarise myself with the playerlist.

You are giving me fits right now my friend.

[farside22]

You are giving me fits right now my friend.

So you and Domo don't share that much history, correct?

Pedit:

So you and I have played how many games?

4 games I think.
I have great respect for him after our first game together. Even after I thought he was scum in 80 and realized what he did and why I wanted to kiss him and strangle him all at the same time.
So for now I'll wait and see.

[farside22]

fuck a duck.

I got to go to my biggest scum read I can't stay on this any more

vote: conman

[farside22]

Anyway, what are we going to do? Run whoever up to L-1, and only lynch them if they claim the be vanilla?

farside should know better here. papi is still the lynch. His scum equity went UP thanks to the claim, not down.

I have a stronger scum read on conman.
You think I should continue to allow him to lurk and do shit fucking all, let me know why that is.

[farside22]

I don't like the who the fuck cares if we lynch a claimed doc comments.
I don't care if there is a back up.

Anyone who thinks conman is town is scum and I don't like the lets have a lynch or Rev's I want to catch up, oh wait I will go ahead and vote on Papi after being prodded.

Basically Rev or Con

My preference is Con

[farside22]

It's Papi toDay.

We're not running somebody else up with that awful claim.

Why is it awful other then scum could claim it?
Why are you allowing conman to lurk through this game?

[farside22]

FYI farside, I more or less follow a formula for replacing in, in an attempt to attain balance.

I say hi, and then start reading up and making notes, making sure to vote ONLY after I'm fully up to date. Whether town or scum. Me holding back my vote at this stage is 100% null as fuck, because I'm still doing what I consciously try to do as either elignment.

You should know this, surely? You shouldn't expect me to make a sloppy vote based on half a thread.

I don't like the lets have a lynch or Rev's I want to catch up

Why? It's super standard. In fact as scum I doubt I'd dick about, I'd just get on with it in an effort to make the right impression. As town I don't really care what impression I make.

let me know which one is accurate.

[farside22]

Why? The reactions from both those players are quite standard here at this site when someone wants to lynch a claimed doc.

It's more their attitude towards me. I feel like there's no attempt to get a feel for me, when both of them should have a better than average ability to do so. Farside more so. I didn't like her reaction to the claim, but that in iteself isn't why I'm concerned.

let me know which one is accurate.

Why can't both be accurate? Why are you making these comments out to be incompatible with one another? I do repalce into games with that mindset, following a neutral agenda while I settle in. The point I'm making in my second comment is that I'm more likely to abandon that plan as town than scum, because not bothering to read up fully and being open about it isn't exactly likely to win me many friends.

I feel like you're twisting my words here, this doesn't give me a sense of "getting a feel for me", this is agenda driven.

Because they are.
One says you would do catch as either alignment then vote.
The others says something completely different.
How are they the same action possible?
Hun, if I wasn't trying to figure you out I'd be voting you and not asking questions.
You know better.

Bbt: you are not my leader, I will push my scum suspect hard, thanks.

[farside22]

@senator: I have to give up on conman here?
I got to deal with bbt telling people we can only lynch papi because he says so. If a rev wagon starts I'll be there with bells on.

[farside22]

Damn.

I read this far and I don't see what Flubber is calling a scum slip. The comment is null as fuck.

I really thought conman was scum but the switch and reasoning looks like crap.

Wtf is up with people this game

Vote: RMM

[farside22]

I'll be catching up on this game sometime today

[farside22]

I was thinking Flubber was scum and was going to attack him today.
Need to reevaluate a few things.

[farside22]

Looking at Flubber, pretty sure con isn't scum with him. He switched votes from papi to con when he could.

Checking papi next

[farside22]

Bt is more likely town based on papi push, I think RMM may be scum.
Pedit: Dave I was reading Flubber ISO alone. If you read how Flubber moved his vote to conman it reads as trying to save scum buddy papi to me.
Flubber barely says much to rmm or pushes there. Same with papi.

[farside22]

Wrong song is another one is look at as scum as well.

Dave, check out the lack of interaction between Flubber and papi. Do you think they didn't interact with the 3rd scum buddy?

[farside22]

Has anyone ever played a sk role before? I always think sk would kill either someone that suspected them or was a town read to most people.
I recall aero said he killed me because I suspected him. Not sure if that is normal sk thinking.

[farside22]

I'm going to go with my gut on this.

Vote: wrong song

[farside22]

Also I have a thought here.

We have 3 doc's still alive and the tracker.
If the doc's know who to protect each doc can use an element to protect the tracker to clear players.

Thoughts?

The best way to not out the docs though and get each one to use a different element is the only issue I have to think around.
Maybe wifom would work....

[farside22]

Mmm maybe day 3 that would work.

It's out weighing clearing players vs how many do you want to clear.

[farside22]

Oooo a wifom idea is to say everyone will "track" the player above them on the list.
I think senator, rev, myself and maybe bbt will know why this would help and what may happen doing that.

Doc's protect who they find the most town.
Out guessing the element is the biggest issue.

Damn is having only 2 confirmed out weigh everything.

Give me a minute to crunch numbers.

[farside22]

13 players left.

5 pr's outed
Leaves 8 players to check.

Clearing 2 players gives 6 to go through, maybe could get 1 more clear bring total to 5.

[farside22]

I think waiting a day would be best.

@wander: I've been a bit distracted but my biggest issue when I play is tunneling a player I believe is scum. I miss things along the way when I can't let go of something. It wouldn't surprise me if conman was the SK this game to be frank but I'm going to focus on finding the last scum. The reason I picked wrong over rmm is there was latterly no comment directed to wrong from either member of the scum team and I noticed neither directly tales to one another.
It's a gut call because there is probably one or two other players neither communicated with but I only am really scum reading rmm and wrong.

[farside22]

I had a town read on senator but I'll check into what you said bbt.
I also had a rev SK theory in my head.

[farside22]

I'm voting wrong for the reasons you stated bbt.

[farside22]

@bela: day to day lynches and talk can change my views on players.
Senator was more based on his post and rev sk was more a paranoid feeling then absolute

@ bbt: if you check my ISO further you see I was getting suspicious of Flubber.

[farside22]

101 - Flubber is a scum read. No vote though, instead she focuses on Bella. Classic scum move, FOS buddy (Flubber) but vote !town! (Bella)

253 - Her read on Flubber is 'paranoid'. Not scummy though, just someone to be watched.

330 - Can you explain this comment, Farside. Why did you want me to be town?

877 - If you thought Flubber was scum and you were going to attack him, why do you need to reevaluate? You were right, so there should be no need for reevaluation. This makes no sense.

As well as this, besides her brief stint on the Papi wagon (which after she got off she made sure she avoided like the plague; switching between Con and RMM) all of her scum reads throughout the game seem to be on people who I feel good are town. She also fits the bill for scum pushing CW to Papi.

I was following Flubber as scum based on town meta I had but I wasn't married to that read.
Con did little to nothing but give bad reads and lurk.
I felt better about my scum read then following someone else.
I needed to reevalute because again I'm a tunnel type. I wasn't expecting Flubber to be dead so I needed to check the thread to see interactions between Flubber, papi and then vs others.
Which I did.

[farside22]

Also I wasn't around after because I got busy, which I said in thread

[farside22]

OK, but you showed very little suspicion towards Flubber throughout the Day.

The way Con went about his reads (or lack of them) was town, I explained this somewhere I think. It was weak reasoning to pursue him.

Also, if you ended D1 thinking RMM was scum, why did you not start D2 in the same manner?

You voted con at some point towards the end of the day so....??
My read changed because papi flipped scum as did Flubber.
I explained why I think wrong is scum over rmm already.

And this one is in it's very own post because I think you have ignored this twice.

Can you explain your comment to me in 330?

Because of ongoing game reason.

[farside22]

You voted con at some point towards the end of the day so....??
My read changed because papi flipped scum as did Flubber.
I explained why I think wrong is scum over rmm already.

I did vote ConMan, but it was on a perceived slip and at a time when I wasn't fully caught up (I had skimmed a fair few of the recent pages)
You come into D2 looking to attack Flubber. You ended D1 thinking RMM was scum. Why would you not continue attacking RMM? It has nothing to do with Wrong/RMM, and everything to do with the progression/change in your reads on Flubber/RMM.

Your '

I was scum reading Flubber and was going to attack him

' comment feels disingenuous.

Because of ongoing game reason.

I'm going to come back to this when I can. This is bullshit though.

VOTE: Farside

Because papi flipped scum. It's natural to change views when a player flips something you don't expect and check yourself.

You should explain why that is bs. We have an ongoing game.
You want to explain why it's scummy to want you to be town like at all.

[farside22]

888 - What wagons were probed Dave? Can you be more specific.

892 - Wanderer, can you elaborate on Dave's reasoning 'looking town' for not voting Papi?

I don't particularly like that you have commented on two dead people and both of your reads happen to be correct. I don't know why you included them.

Can you explain scum read on Lane?

893 - Farside, 'lack of interactions' for why RMM is scum is weak. I think everyone has had a lack of interaction with RMM.

894 - Farside, why are you hard town-reading Dave?

There is only one scum and one sk.
Do you want to explain to me why you are asking me about a town read when (1) there is no more pairs and (2) you think I'm scum for wanting you to be town

[farside22]

As for lack of interaction, if you read at all Flubber ISO he midly attacked rmm but never said anything toward wrong at all. Flubber said nothing about papi until you attacked him.
So I was thinking scum didn't attack each other based on the two who flipped and there lack of interaction.

[farside22]

Why would Papi flipping scum point you to Flubber? Like, it seems counter-intuitive to start looking for scum on the wagon of someone who flipped scum.

I can't explain it because ongoing. When I can, I will.

It's a weird comment to make. I could understand it if we had played together before or something like that, but we hadn't.

PEdit - Can you explain why you're hard town reading Dave please?

Scum buss. You do realize that somewhere right?
Plus as I said Flubber voted papi and then switched to con for pretty bs reasons in my view. So I went with rmm.
I'm not explaining my town read till you respond to why your asking me

[farside22]

I do. But again, it still seems counter-intuitive to search for scum on the wagon. Plus, you showed very little interest in Flubber throughout the Day, if you thought he switched to Con for BS reasons, why didn't you call him out on it? Why go for RMM instead? Why not Flubber?

I'm asking because it looks like you have just assumed Dave is town. I would like to know what he did that made you so sure he was town.

I didn't have a lot of time that day I switched my vote.
I was going to come back but RL got in my way and I just zoned out with other games I think.
When I was able to come back the lynch happened.

Sigh fine, I hate explaining town reads so bare with me.

[farside22]

Minot sure why you say it counter intuitive to search for scum on the wagon if you know they tend to bus when necessary

[farside22]

Hmmm I realize upon review of Dave I have no clue why I was town reading him so strong.
His last post came across as town but prior to that I realize he was pretty negative towards the papi lynch and his review of Flubber is pretty bad on what he found.

[farside22]

Toffee is the SK.

Alright, I'm fairly confident that Farside, Reverend, ConMan and Lane are town. I don't think I will vote for any of these people, ever.

This is the mindset of someone who isn't even thinking about the SK. He's determined we're not scum due to interaction, but how can he know we're not SK? Why would he never lynch us in the game when he can have no way of knowing if any of us are SK? There's four people here who he won't lynch? This is not a natural town position in a game with a SK.

Who here other than toffee has a list of "not lynching ever"?

I didn't even think of that.

Rev: what is your thoughts on Dave.

[farside22]

Good that means wrong might be town.
Bleck

[farside22]

God not good.

Sigh

Vote: Dave

[farside22]

[farside22]

I can't take seriously a player that says it's bs that i want him to be town and something weird in his own words is scummy and second ignores the fact I wasn't the only player that had a town read in Dave but calls me out for not noticing things I was calling scummy.

[farside22]

Well narrow it down please.

I have a thought once you are done.

[farside22]

It's just easier to find the mafia do to associations and such. I have no issue with someone who thinks they have a bead on the sk.

[farside22]

I never played with any of the other players who have replaced in except Dave whom I barely remember.
As for you second comment your wrong.

[farside22]

How is my second comment wrong?

Because Im not scum so I'm not trying to get votes where I want.

[farside22]

Are you going to keep repeating the same issues over and over?

[farside22]

You wouldn't try to get votes where you want them as town?

I don't butter people up to get vote.

Are you going to keep repeating the same issues over and over?

Probably. Until you're lynched. Then I'll stop.

Your pushing on a weak reason. Why?

[farside22]

Your repeating the whole wanting you to be town, which isn't scummy and calling Dave town, which isn't true.

[farside22]

Listen silly people, I would be up for Wrong Song or Dave at this point for scum.

I think Rev's point about BBT as Sk is pretty valid.

If people want to lynch me, well thanks but no thanks.

Can we please not have soft claims with like one fucking vote here? maybe?

Ugh

[farside22]

As crazy as this is gonna sound, I think senator is town.

If he flipped town, you'd be all over me for pushing for his mislynch. But since he flipped scum, instead you're pointing out the hesitation in my vote. How very convenient.

If senator is setting me up for his next push in the event of a papi town flip, it suggests he didn't know what papi was going to flip.

I'm going round in circles with senator.

Yeah, I was think senator was town too

[farside22]

For me scum is either Dave or wrong song.

[farside22]

Dave hasn't really pushed anything and yes I had to remind myself of his playstyle. He tends to really evaluate players. He's rather MIA today which to me leads more towards a scum read then town.

[farside22]

People do realize that fake claiming at this point is suicide right?

[farside22]

I had a rough day yesterday.
I'm recovering slowly. Will be back later today

[farside22]

Hey I only read the last 2 pages. I like that we are claiming but what about what I suggested to have the tracker claim to clear at least 2 people?
It will help I think.
If there is an objection I'd like to know why with the soft claims out already.

I claim VT.

Bella claim please.

[farside22]

Hey I only read the last 2 pages. I like that we are claiming but what about what I suggested to have the tracker claim to clear at least 2 people?
It will help I think.
If there is an objection I'd like to know why with the soft claims out already.

I claim VT.

Bella claim please.

Tracker claiming results doesn't clear anyone.

Unless someone lies. Then the tracker can catch them.

Well their is a back up doc, you guys realize that right?

Here is the breakdown.
Tracker claims and the doc's know who to protect.
Each doc uses each of the elements.
There is 3 to pick right?
The tracker is safe to track rack of the claimed vt's in the game.
If someone targets a doc, then the backup is there is protect the tracker for one more night.

You can also use wifom for the doc's if 2 survive.
For example one doc will say I will use either Fire or water to protect tractor.
Other doc picks one of the 3 elements not picked and one picked by the doc.

Scum/sk have less of odds of killing tracker to help the tracker get another result.

[farside22]

Let's not out any PR's just yet.

Bella claim please.

Why?
Or tell me what is wrong with my proposal.

Farside the docs will have to reveal themselves to do that

Shrug.
Tracker has more value in the game.

[farside22]

Well either that and each player that claimed PR "protects" the player above them on the list with the player on top of the claimed PR "protects" the player at the bottom

[farside22]

Well I'm town despite what bbt thinks of me.

I'm wondering why he keeps pushing away what I proposed for the claimed pr

[farside22]

Come on bbt, claims are over explain why not using the tracker and having the doc's protect the tracker is a bad idea.

[farside22]

It's not what I think.

It's what your voting tells me.

I thought conman was scum. I'm stubborn that way.
Next.

[farside22]

Dave: PR
Wrong: PR
RMM: PR
Bella: PR
ConMan: PR

Plotinus: VT
FA: VT
BBT: VT
Farside: VT
Senator: VT
Lane: VT
Reverend: VT

Just Wanderer left to go.

Who hasn't claimed?

[farside22]

Stop stalling bbt.
I'm accepting that I should be lynched.
I want my plan to happen because it helps the town win.
Explain why you are fucking stalling.

Ebwop: I'm reading lane.
I just think bbt is the sk, so bare with me.

[farside22]

I'll go back and reread senator.

Someone make sure bbt responds to my question.
No more votes either.
A plan will help

[farside22]

I thought conman was scum. I'm stubborn that way.
Next.

And RMM? You tried super hard to avoid that Papi wagon.

Lane, why would Scum!Senator sit on a pointless wagon when his buddy is being ran up?

PEdit - I'm not SK. I would have killed you (Can say it's WIFOM, idc. I would have)

I could maybe, at a push see Senator (based on his play, not his voting)

I really do think Farside has the best chance of flipping scum.

What did rmm do to look town?
No seriously tell me.

Wifom you are trying to lynch me so.....
Yea you sk makes sense.
You not wanting to break the game and avoiding being tracked makes you look scummy.

[farside22]

I'm not stalling.

I also didn't fully understand your plan.

Liar!!!

[farside22]

Tell me how this post is not fucking clear.

Hey I only read the last 2 pages. I like that we are claiming but what about what I suggested to have the tracker claim to clear at least 2 people?
It will help I think.
If there is an objection I'd like to know why with the soft claims out already.

I claim VT.

Bella claim please.

Tracker claiming results doesn't clear anyone.

Unless someone lies. Then the tracker can catch them.

Well their is a back up doc, you guys realize that right?

Here is the breakdown.
Tracker claims and the doc's know who to protect.
Each doc uses each of the elements.
There is 3 to pick right?
The tracker is safe to track rack of the claimed vt's in the game.
If someone targets a doc, then the backup is there is protect the tracker for one more night.

You can also use wifom for the doc's if 2 survive.
For example one doc will say I will use either Fire or water to protect tractor.
Other doc picks one of the 3 elements not picked and one picked by the doc.

Scum/sk have less of odds of killing tracker to help the tracker get another result.

[farside22]

In short with the claims out the.
Lynch a vt claim today.

The tracker will track one of the other claimed vt's. That player will either clear or condem the player that was tracked.

[farside22]

What is known.
8vt are claimed, 6 are real.
Let's say you lynch me today. I'm town.
You have.
7vt claims and 5 real.
Tracker tracks one and doc's protect tracker.

If tracker has one he saw go nowhere and 2 players are dead, it is known that player is confirmed town.

Then you have.
7 claim, 5 real out of 7 claim, one confirmed town.
This cycle of lynching within the vt's and tracking vt's with the doc's agreeing to use different elements can next 2 to 3 players cleared/checked.


Any questions?

[farside22]

Hold on, we lose two docs in one night though if we miss scum lynching toDay...

That seems dumb.

Only if the scum and sk target different players and again that is worst case.
As I pointed out if that happens the 2 doc's still confirm both using 2 different elements but one says I will use either water or fire and the other just says earth.

There is not much chance to hit the tracker that night

[farside22]

13 players left, lets say the doc(s) in the first 4 of the playerlist pick fire, the doc(s) in the next 4 picks water, and the doc(s) in the last group pick earth. It's not watertight because we don't know if the docs are that evenly spread, but at least it prevents them from having to come out.

pr's are already known.
That does no good

[farside22]

This cycle of lynching within the vt's and tracking vt's with the doc's agreeing to use different elements can next 2 to 3 players cleared/checked.

No it doesn't. It gets us one and then we possibly have no docs left. So it could potentially only be two.

Seems high risk for low reward.

I'm sorry I missed the point of outting pr's and what the fuck makes you think they are safe tonight?
Seriously.

[farside22]

We think PR's are known.

If tracker or back up claimed VT early we're in a completely different scenario if they come forward.

You can't be this dumb.
Did you even read the set up?

[farside22]

We think PR's are known.

If tracker or back up claimed VT early we're in a completely different scenario if they come forward.

You can't be this dumb.
Did you even read the set up?

I'm gonna lose my fuckign shit in a minute.

If a PR has claimed VT it means one of the PRs have lied. Can you follow this?

Yes.
Everyone has claimed.
5 people claimed PR's.

7 Vanilla Townies
3 Town Elemental Doctors
1 Town backup Elemental Doctor
1 Town Tracker
1 Mafia Fire Goon
1 Mafia Water Goon
1 Mafia Earth Goon
1 Elemental Sk

Ooo look math is my friend.

[farside22]

Sorry that was snarky.
I'm just frustrated.

[farside22]

OK, now. Here is a scenario for you;

Scum claimed PR (let's say RMM).

Tracker or back up claimed VT (Let's say FA)

FA comes back to thread tomorrow and says 'I claim PR'.

We now have 6 PRs.

Do you see how this changes the dynamic of the game?

Ok. I'll wait then.

I'm going to bed now.

[farside22]

I'm waiting for claims to be done.

[farside22]

Okay so back to my idea of town tracker claiming today.

I want only the claimed pr's to discuss this and BBT to stop changing the subject

[farside22]

As you said farside, we're losing PRs tonight regardless of whether tracker claims or not. Assuming all claims are true, odds of tracker surviving are better than if they claim. Tracker should only claim if they have something useful.

Im not sure how you concluded this.

5 claims means 1 out of 5 shot with sk/scum shotting they may shoot the tracker.
My idea garrentee safety to the tracker.

[farside22]

My kingdom for Dave to get him butt I here.
At least he'd may get what Im putting done.

[farside22]

We can't lynch untik the docs have agreed how to protect me. Anyone derp hammering is the sk.

This needs to happen!! Stop voting for a moment please.

[farside22]

Doc's claime element you will use in next post

[farside22]

My 2 cents for sk is bbt or plot

[farside22]

WAIT only one other doctor needs to claim and state element, then the last can stay (relatively) hidden i.e 50/50/doc or backup remaining. Not a whole heap of difference but hey.

That's fine too.

Glad to see you on board Dave.

Oh I was asked about plot.

It's a weird reason really. When I was talking about how best to handle the situation and claims he bypassed it completely.

To me BBT was more blanetly avoiding the convo and trying to bully past it. I believe he is more likely sk.

[farside22]

I'm scum

Yes I know.

I was sad when I thought as much day 1.
You know you should have killed me.

[farside22]

I forgot I was still voting.

Unvote

[farside22]

I just think "conftown + strong town leader" is a winning combination.

What makes you think bbt is not the SK?

[farside22]

Claiming is done.

I have no issue being tracked.
Maybe track senator since he's quiet during these talks.

Just my last thought.

Vote: rev

[farside22]

Yes we do.

[farside22]

I feel like BBT wants to lynch me before we can discuss any plans in case you decide to mislynch me.
You know since I was the one to insist on this in the first place to screw of the SK.

Anyways.

All Doc's Please use the same element tonight as you did last night. Do not make any changes!

That is number one thing out of the way.

If today is a mislynch and well BBT continues to push for my lynch and I can't help make the town win by screwing over the SK like I am (since he wants that) if a doc dies tonight don't forget to claim the element of 2 doc's again with the 3rd doing the one not picked.

Any questions so far?

Consider my vote on BBT

[farside22]

I mean, the SK could just give up...

I'll hammer bbt if it comes to it, but I'd prefer sen/fa/far.

Also, what far said about the drs is correct.

I don't know whether to feel insulted that you think I'm the SK or what.

If you think I would screw myself over in a 3rd party role like that. You are crazy girl.

[farside22]

Pretty sure that was a sk claim there.

Vote: senator

[farside22]

Flubber was meh kinda like scum, but I had my mind set on you and Rev being scum. Especially after Papi's flip

Pfft.
You have no clue how to read me.

[farside22]

I'll be blunt.
If senator isn't scum I think it's bbt.

I'm not explaining why just yet I maybe wrong, but yeah let's do this

[farside22]

Well if the sk continues to no kill he is garented to lose by POE.
Just saying.

[farside22]

I really could see Plotinus.

Wanderer not so much.

I endorse this product and or service

[farside22]

Hahahaha!!!

I knew it was either bbt or pisskop.

Here is why for the record. I knew that a possible out for the sk was to no kill. I don't think anyone would try to kill Bella with my plan but no killing was a way to survive. Only 2 players I could think, would consider that outside myself.
Piss
Bbt

But yea I was no way scum this game from any stretch.

[farside22]

Sorry pisskop.
I think had I not been here, no one else would have thought about the best strategy to win with the position we were in day 2

[farside22]

we should lynch Farside.

I endorse this product and/or service.

Congrats on a perfect win!

[farside22]

Give scum a roleblocker?

I endorse this product and/or service