Mini 1710: A Midnight Sun -Game Over-

[Marcrell]

Well good evening folks.
VOTE: Morning Sun
This is Midnight Sun so they're obviously scum. Obviously.

My name is also spelt wrong on the list of people.

[Marcrell]

Okay sorry, Wednesday is my really busy night. Was unavailable then.

Was sort of liking Lickety, this bothers me though.

Alright so Licketys town. He's on a completely different wavelength, but he's town.

WTH, There is no way I should be a town read because I have a similar read on the same person that you do. This shit is infuriating.

EBWOP

Had to water it down so that people can actually understand what the heck I am saying. ://///////

It feels wrong.

Suzune seems sort of town to me.

[Marcrell]

Alright so Licketys town. He's on a completely different wavelength, but he's town.

WTH, There is no way I should be a town read because I have a similar read on the same person that you do. This shit is infuriating.

EBWOP

Had to water it down so that people can actually understand what the heck I am saying. ://///////

You're not a town read because of your reads. You're a town read because I can't understand you so bad that you clearly must be town.

The fact that your thought process is so uniquely you, it feels real. You're not scum faking thoughts, you're town blabbering nonsense that only makes sense to you.

....I feel like that sounds mean but it's not supposed to >.> I moonlogic frequently, and I know I'm babbling bullshit that no one else can agree with when I do it.

I don't agree. I think it leans scummier. It could go either way, pissed off town, or scum frustrated that people aren't going for it, but it feels more like scum anger.

Why am I a scum read fire?

I'd like to thank the mod for fixing my name when I mentioned it. You do good work.

[Marcrell]

I just want to note I feel like my town reads are pretty biased. For at least Morning Sun and Elbirn I townread them more because I like them and I am hoping they truly are town with me. Grapes is probably my strongest town read overall, followed by Empoleon

Anyone who thinks fire is scum, read this and tell me that scum fire would be so dead pan honest about townreading me and morning because he likes us. I don't see scum being so blatant and open about buddying.

I can see this. Guess I'll have to townread Fire some.

Since everyone wants to know my reads, including my partner:

Scum: Suznne, Marcrell/Shaded(Because they haven't moved their RVS vote yet, which is bad), Klingon (She is oftenly mislynch-bait which I am not playing with today)

Town: LQ (He should fuck off though), Elbirn (Big turnaround from RVS to actual content), Empoleon (In Bella I trust for now).

~Espeon

Sorry bout that. VOTE: Morning Sun. Good vote right here. You guys should vote it.

Also

^yea I kinda expected a bit more progress than this by the time I got back

heading out to the store and stuff for a while - will give this some attention laterish

https://xkcd.com/621/ It's been 100 posts between your last and this one. Is it all fluff or....

That comic is not as relevant as I expected.

[Marcrell]

While I assume she'd make a wonderful buddy, we currently have no affiliation besides being in the same game.

I'm voting you because you're scum.

[Marcrell]

I haven't liked her stance on Suzune too much. Bet you 10 bucks she says I'm buddying Suzune after this. Also I was feeling lazy then and just voted her because she said I hadn't moved my vote.

Empolean's last posts are town.

The reversal on Firebringer is interesting. Not necessarily town or scum, but people seemd to think he was town until recently, where it's flipped the other way. I'd still go town on him for a little while longer from what I quoted earlier.

Melee's disappeared for a few days now, which is a shame because I played with him before. He also buddied me and was scum and probably won them the game as I was lynched in lylo for it. Hope he comes back.

[Marcrell]

Marcell, glad to see you voted out of RVS!

Also love the reasons youre voting us. Is it because Suznne is your buddy?

So why'd I think it? Total mystery.

Suz, Morning and Lickety are probably town.

This town list seems scummy to me. Put two common townreads on here(Morning and Lickety) and add Suzune, which town is split on, to make it seem like you aren't just echoing reads. The Suzune won't get big backlash or confrontation since town is split, while the other two townreads are completely safe.

You just jumped from null to scum in this post.

Wanna know why?

How in the hell am I lurking? Even if you wanna say I am active lurking that is false since I gave reads and explanations for it. So while some of my posts are fluff, your argument is shit.

I am going to assume your middle question is asking me why. Null means that the good actions and the bad actions equal themselves out. Good actions are things or posts I find as townish in nature or actively perusing the cause of catching the mafia. Scum actions are things that sidestep main problems, avoid tough conversations or make helping but not really helping posts. So the fact that you were null means you actions equaled out. So moving to scum suggests that a post of yours was in my mind on the more mafiaesque side.

Between the two of us we are some of the more active posting players, so in that extent you are not lurking. Rather, you did not describe your reads until you were asked to do them and even then you mentioned that most of them were gut. This suggests that not many of them were indeed reads but simply your feelings about the game with little data to back them. At least I like your 252. It explains your thoughts on people better. However, they just feel light to me on information, while I understand that this game is light on resources.

You are not my first choice for lynch today, however, I find you curious.

However, since the vote list is good, I would like to vote for my main suspect.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Marcell
Ironically I had a dream last night that I was reading posts by Marcell.

Marc

r

ell. Common mistake.

[Marcrell]

I don't like the Marcrell wagon right now if for nothing else, its just way too easy. There is no one really to speak of that is defending him. If he is scum, I would think it would be an easy lynch and/or he would replace out so that is what I am looking for. But this early in the game I just can't see that Marcrell is scum at this point. I suggest we find a new wagon because I think Marcrell is going to end up making his team look guilty the longer he's in the game as scum.

To being bad enough to live to day 2!

[Marcrell]

In post 267, ShadedMelee wrote:
Suz, Morning and Lickety are probably town.

This town list seems scummy to me. Put two common townreads on here(Morning and Lickety) and add Suzune, which town is split on, to make it seem like you aren't just echoing reads. The Suzune won't get big backlash or confrontation since town is split, while the other two townreads are completely safe.

I find it ironic that Marc pot shots SM for a boring reads list, when this idea has already been repeated enough to be boring. His response to Suz's vote is weird.

Okay, what? If you're saying I'm echoing this list wasn't good, I think I was first on that. Or close. Pretty sure.

Grapes 302 is great. Love it.

@Penguin - I'm curious, what are your thoughts on Suzune now? Thoughts in general?

Town read right now. Her content was fine, what was pinging was more tone. In general, that this game isn't very readable for me so far; having trouble following so many people I haven't played with much/at all.

Firebringer feels townish, you seem town so far from what I'm remembering of your play/your analysis here. BlankFace has good content.

I don't get a good vibe off Morning Sun, and I can't bring myself to town-read Klingoncelt. The reactions seem town, but not in a genuine way? Might just not be on his wavelength. I think I played a game with scum-grapes right before fading out, and he doesn't remind me of that, but he also might have changed a lot in the past year.

Too tired to come up with conversation starters. Maybe tomorrow.

What is town in a not genuine way? I'd assume that would make it scum.

I understand the not defending myself part, but what to defend? The general consensus seems to be that I'm generally horrible, not sure of specific problems with my play I could defend.

Okay sorry, Wednesday is my really busy night. Was unavailable then.

Was sort of liking Lickety, this bothers me though.

Alright so Licketys town. He's on a completely different wavelength, but he's town.

WTH, There is no way I should be a town read because I have a similar read on the same person that you do. This shit is infuriating.

EBWOP

Had to water it down so that people can actually understand what the heck I am saying. ://///////

It feels wrong.

Suzune seems sort of town to me.

Describe the feels so we actually know why it feels "wrong". Frankly the BS meter on this post is pinging pretty high for me.

The motivation felt scummy I would say. In the wording. It didn't seem like town writing.

[Marcrell]

So far Marc hasn't even commented on anything I said either, so that's disappointing.

All I could find was the thing on Lickety which I've been talking to him about. Don't forget the r. Helps me find questions you ask easier as well if I miss them the first time.

marcrell's playstyle matches with the game i played with him. He was town.

I'd like a link to that please.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=57612

heh.. I did a quick ISO of both of you from that game and both of you were way more active in that game and playing way more pro-town in that game as well.

Care to guess how your post count in that game compares to what it is in this game at the same number of posts in the thread? I'll just go ahead and tell you. You had 20 post compared to your 8 in this one and Marcrell had 18 compared to his 9 in this one and there were the same number of players in that one that there is in this one. Both of you came on much stronger and much more confident in that game as well.

If you'll check dates that was from June to August. Middle of summer. I'm a lot less busy then. Now I've got a lot more work, when I don't I'm tired from it, and I have large chunks of my day dedicated to other things. It's harder to find time and motivation now.

My vote remains on Lickety.

That he has 2 extra tapes makes him look even more scummy in my eyes, because those tapes would be very helpful for the Devils and Ghosts to coordinate their kills. I have no idea how Town can use the things.

This assumes that both scum teams already know who each other are, which contradicts what I said in the beginning the the thread when I said I believe they do not know who each other are. Its quite the risky business to be relaying info to a partner team if you can't be sure who they are. The fact that you say so assuredly that they do know who each other are means you either know something that the rest of us don't or are assuming a great deal.

Plus you just scum slipped by saying that I had

2 extra

tapes as opposed to saying that I just have more tapes or four tapes. This implies that you also think that everyone started off with only 2 tapes, but you say that you believe that I actually do have 4 tapes.

I pulled a gambit hoping to find scum. Fire bit on it so I was thinking he was scum, but after seeing his reaction and looking at his updated Wiki I now know that it was just a simple misunderstanding of the setup since he has been in 17 active games.

I'm reading Fire as Town now and I am fairly confident that Kling is scum.

VOTE: Kling

The default PM's the mod gives us all say 2 tapes. So assuming 2 extra is the default in general, unless someone cares to reveal they also have more tapes. How the fuck is this a scum slip?

I wouldn't say Kling's scum.

And stop with the fucking wallposts. Make 1 post for each player you're reading.

Yes, I'm going to admit I rarely read entire walls. Feel free to go ahead if you want.

Okay sorry, Wednesday is my really busy night. Was unavailable then.

Was sort of liking Lickety, this bothers me though.

Alright so Licketys town. He's on a completely different wavelength, but he's town.

WTH, There is no way I should be a town read because I have a similar read on the same person that you do. This shit is infuriating.

EBWOP

Had to water it down so that people can actually understand what the heck I am saying. ://///////

It feels wrong.

Suzune seems sort of town to me.

Describe the feels so we actually know why it feels "wrong". Frankly the BS meter on this post is pinging pretty high for me.

The motivation felt scummy I would say. In the wording. It didn't seem like town writing.

Seriously? this is the best you could come up with? describe the feeling then???

Scum motivation beyond typing. It would be of the type of post written by scum.

I don't even really stand by the original post anymore, why the fuck am I still defending it.

I feel Lickety's getting too comfortable in his being townread. All this talk about redeeming and town cred and such. I might vote it.

[Marcrell]

, Klingoncelt"]buuut 286 i think you all will find to be a pretty reliable town tell - i just can't see the scum motivation for klingon to take a stance opposed to the next most likely wagon to go through while being wagoned herself

Well this is good cuz it opens the possibility that both Kling and Marcrell are both Scum.[/quote]
How does it open a possibility? I guess you see the buddying aspects but it really doesn't make sense as scum when you're about to be lynched to suddenly talk about how town your partner is. It doesn't work out for scum.

Shadedmelee is complex. Usually people that just post one-line phrases and only occasionally aren't scum, but I don't want to let him coast in case he is.
VOTE: Shadedmelee
TvT call seems sort of towny. Not enough to justify. But I'll keep it on the backburner if I like his play more later.

[Marcrell]

@Marcrell

Talk to me about klingon. What's your take on her?

First part of the game was mad but she was sick. I had the flu once during a game and I was utterly useless, so I can't fault her for that.

I can't really grab a read either way. Lot of shorter posts. Lickety saying she's scum because she said extra tapes sort of makes me want to townread Kling because of it.

Top three lynch targets/reads seem to be us with short posts not too often. So we're probably going to be cleaned out either way.

Kling is sort of guilty of not too much content, but shaded is more, so I'll leave the vote on shaded.

Okay, reading through everything the Lickety tape thing was a gambit and he didn't have extra tapes.... What did this prove? I don't understand how it made fire more town or Klingon more scum.

[Marcrell]

Vengeful claim seemed scum to me, a hail mary to stop a hammer. Now that it's a selected kill it's mixed.

Vyse, what part of Elbirn's play feels like checking off a list? I think it flows naturally, but I could be biased since he's townreading me.

So...one of the sample role pm's is for a vengeful devil.

Just uh...just gonna put that out there.

Intent to hammer.

Oh wow hot damn.

That's going to tip the scales towards a scum claim.

If you want a vengeful kill I suppose penguin wouldn't be missed

too

much.

[Marcrell]

Planned to type something but have to go. Will look at this tonight.

[Marcrell]

I'd have to guess Shaded was a town vengeful from this kill. I'd say. He had townread me and consensus from us was me or penguin so he went with that.

Although if all the big town reads were scum then he could have been too. Or if he was worried about someone being able to revive them. I'd have to guess town, but keep your tinfoil just in case.

Shouldn't we be looking on the wagon for scum who bussed him?
I don't think its Lickety.
VOTE: Marcell

I WANT THIS MOFO AT L-1 BY DAYS END!

Shouldn't you want me lynched by day's end, because I'd survive and there'd be no lynch if I'm at L-1 at the end of the day?

Dude, there was one person that said they wanted PA dead and that person made a 180 on their read on me and is now voting me because I was on the fence about SM.

Well there was me and Morning Sun. I assume you're talking about Sun.

VOTE: Blankface He's seemingly stopped most activity. Could be busy but he said he'd have a readthrough and it has yet to materialize.

[Marcrell]

I think Vyse is town for his whole case on Elbirn. Looks like a lot of thought effort. I don't agree though.

Blankface has done little to alleviate my scumread on him.

Just as I realized I was probably prodded and was going to come back my Internet went out. So I'm using my phone right now.

I think Lickety said Morning Sun's disagreement between heads could be coordinated, I'll probably look into that when I can use a computer again. Having obvtown reads from so early usually worries me, town can get complacent, so I'll probably focus more on those people as well.

[Marcrell]

I've given my thoughts on LQ. He's town as hell. He's my top town. Find me one post you don't find genuine and I'll revise that. I'll try to ISO the others later tonight/tomorrow. I have to throw together a Pathfinder game in 8 minutes right now.

JFYI, once you play a game with me where I am scum you will never trust me again.

So would this mean you have an unreadable meta?

Fire not wanting to talk about the tapes is suspicious. Scum have a way to communicate secretly without them, town doesn't, so scum would not want town understanding/using tapes, unless it could be spun to benefit them, which will be harder the more town knows about how we should use them. And at this point his case about me is just repeatedly calling for me to be lynched. And spelling my name wrong. R after c. Maybe he had a case earlier, but he's stopped using it now. VOTE: Firebringer I could most definitely see the slot as scum.

Scum venge kills are full reveal, scum one-shot kill is mutilated. Somebody mentioned this and I checked sample. If the sample is correct this had to be a venge kill, scum one-shot would not tell us who penguin was.

[Marcrell]

I've given my thoughts on LQ. He's town as hell. He's my top town. Find me one post you don't find genuine and I'll revise that. I'll try to ISO the others later tonight/tomorrow. I have to throw together a Pathfinder game in 8 minutes right now.

JFYI, once you play a game with me where I am scum you will never trust me again.

So would this mean you have an unreadable meta?

Fire not wanting to talk about the tapes is suspicious. Scum have a way to communicate secretly without them, town doesn't, so scum would not want town understanding/using tapes, unless it could be spun to benefit them, which will be harder the more town knows about how we should use them. And at this point his case about me is just repeatedly calling for me to be lynched. And spelling my name wrong. R after c. Maybe he had a case earlier, but he's stopped using it now. VOTE: Firebringer I could most definitely see the slot as scum.

Scum venge kills are full reveal, scum one-shot kill is mutilated. Somebody mentioned this and I checked sample. If the sample is correct this had to be a venge kill, scum one-shot would not tell us who penguin was.

This post is gross.

Trying to legitimize tapes is pointless. As far as we know, the messages are anonymous. I haven't tested it, I don't think anyone else has tested it. Scum have tapes too. It's not the same secure communication that scum have. And tape discussions right now do not help us find scum. And if Fire doesn't want to talk about it, how does that make him scum? Did he say not to use them? Did he advocate against them? Sitting around talking about tapes gets us nowhere and you voting Fire because he doesn't want to talk about it is pointless.

And if he's already made a case, what is wrong with him wanting to see you lynched? What's the scum intent in Fire tunneling you? As it is, I'm the leading wagon and Fire could just as easily jump on me. Instead he pointed to my meta and expressed doubt. Why bother doing that as scum?

Your case on Fire boils down to him not wanting to talk about a mechanic that at the moment has no bearing on finding scum and over him wanting you lynched. And misspelling your name? Come on.

VOTE: Marcell

Oh lord Jesus a misconception.

We can talk about tapes and talk about other things at the same time. If fire perhaps suggested that something else was more important, that would be valid. If he'd asked about something and said he didn't have an opinion about tapes or thought they weren't important he could have said that. Instead it's just telling everyone to shut up about tapes.

I think they have a purpose. Sure, scum have them. We can't guarantee we send them secretly. But town has limited secret conversation, and while they can be sent to mafia, they're still useful. How/if someone reacts to you communication in thread could help with alignment. Or you could share results as a pr with a trusted townie. We don't know or PRs, but having any method of communication outside of thread for town is more then we usually have, and I believe we could use it to our benefit.

Nah, about the 50 posts that are variation of "get the ball rolling on marcel".

Also him mispelling my name has nothing to do with my perception of his alignment. I'm just telling him it's wrong.

[Marcrell]

Taking a quick look at the votecount, the two who seem most opposed to the Blankface lynch (fire and Blankface) are also the two voting me. Nicely in sync. I think they could be scum together. If one flips scum, I would vote the other tomorrow. Of course that depends if we get flips from a lynch. Assuming Shadedmelee is town, I'd like to guess town has no flip while scum does flip in some form, or it's based on days, with flips on every other day or every third.

That's just guessing at whether we'll get a lynchflip, as we don't know if we'll have one to get associations with.

Totally in agreement with Luckett on vyse, like I stated earlier. Vyse seems town for the case, although I don't think Elbirn is scum.