Open 627: Mexican Standoff [endgame]

[Kop]

14

kuroi -2 +3 =8 -11 =12 -==14 =39 -51 =77 | =51 =64

Aneninen R -4 ==6 -7 | =11 -14

Smudger ==3 +9 -10 | +14

acryon -3 v4 u119 R =31 | =11 =14

Persivul +=2 -10 R +316

pisskop -1 ==2 -13

plotinus = +1 +7 +8 -11 =12 +13 -=14 -443 | -577 -581 v626 =648

radiantcowbells =3 -5 -11 ✝

Whats this?

I'm thick you know.

VOTE: TOWNIE247

Trying to deceive us with his user name.

[Kop]

VOTE: KainTepes

Perhaps you would like to explain why you're afraid? Most townies I know aren't this nervous in RVS.

Afraid wtf?? I am never afraid. I am here to find scum and we have a limited time to do it so let's move move move!!!

I don't like your OMGUS vote. And you called me scummy for being 'afraid' when I'm not afraid, so prepare to get dunked, scum!

We have 13 days, how is that limited time?

[Kop]

I am VERY aggressive in TOS, and I will do so here too, because that is the only way to catch evil players off guard and lynch them quickly. Quietness is not good which is why I want people to move

Whatever!! At least I am trying to play the game while you are just trying to distract people and picking on new players ilyvmjty. being aggressive does NOT mean i am fake or bad

Also your sucking up to Titus is disgusting, happy to vote you

These two posts do swing in one of two ways.

1). These are townie posts. Because scum wouldn't really want the game to progress as quickly as he points out.

2). These are fake town posts in hoping to make out he has town intentions without any real hunting of any sort.

And stating that your happy to vote, why don't you vote for him? What's holding you back from doing so?

Yeah that was a bit of an overreaction, sorry.

Let's forget that and go here:

I don't like burnings reaction.

VOTE: Burning Crystal

This one is serious.

You simply can't suspect someone for over reacting, then do it yourself and say we should forget about it. That's a contradiction, in my opinion.

VOTE: Extrapolated Eagle

[Kop]

VOTE: Townie247

VOTE: smugder

Two naked votes.

Are you kind enough to elaborate on these two, I know it's half and half in RVS, but it would be nice to see some justification to these votes, instead of trying to appear to be doing something.

[Kop]

So what post has made Eagle get the hump? I don't think I've seen any personal attack towards Eagle that has made him react the way he has done. It's baffling that someone who claimed before about over reacting, as gone beyond an over reaction, to a point where he's likely to head this game into a personal confrontation. And I think if he's going to make it personal, it's going beyond the game, imo. Something strikes me that this is all sorts of fake where it is going to cause distractions, will scum do this? Possibly.

I don't know any of your game styles that you have portrayed in the past, so I can only go off what is in the thread. I like many others won't know what is going through your mind, all we can go off, is what you are putting in this thread. And for me, it's far too aggressive, along with contradictions.

[Kop]

Not that post, Eagle said I am "fake as hell" which is hurtful...
I do not know if Eagle is scum or town but I think Anen is good, he has been helpful and pressuring people,,!

How is it hurtful? He's playing the game and giving his thoughts, you claim to be aggressive but if a slight comment comes off aggressive towards you, you start hurling aTe around?

You can't claim to be aggressive but when something is thrown back at you, you can't claim it to be hurtful, considering aggressiveness as you claim you are, can be hurtful if used incorrectly.

This is what gives me also the impression that this whole charade of you claiming your aggressive is fake.

[Kop]

And I don't mean that on a personal level, I'm talking about this front your trying to portray.

[Kop]

But I want to be AGGRESSIVE like all the strong players and catch scum like they can... am I not aggressive enough??

I don't really think you should be asking that question.

How do you feel about this wagon forming on you?

[Kop]

I dont like it because I am town, but if you all think I am a useless player then its ok lynch me...

That's not the attitude you should be taking. If your style is aggressive, you should be dismantling your wagon by posting against your waggoner's. And arguing the toss.

And you wonder why I think this is all fake....

[Kop]

The more I think of it the LESS it makes sense, it is just like the game in TOS where a person who was sheriff calimed Godfather (which is a bad role), and got lynched because everyone said "no I know you are not godfather because you are SHERIFF"??? But that is so dumb, because sheriff is actually a good role and godfather is a bad role, they just lynched him because they think he is fake, but in reality he is a good guy and the town lynched him even though they knew he was a good guy because that town was stupid, so dave is being the same,,,,

I think I understand the whole point of this, and it's relevance.

But assure you, we're not lynching you based on being a poor player or bowing to the demands of your previous post. That is not what this game is about, I don't like policy lynches as we never learn anything from them. So in truth, you aren't becoming a policy lynch, just because you think your a poor player.

I just would like to see some posturing from yourself to get back at those people voting for you, and to show them why there votes should be elsewhere. Something we have been seeing lack of.

[Kop]

I see a lot of posturing from KainTepes about being aggressive, and that's good, because evil players aren't aggressive, and that's bad, so he needs to be aggressive.
Looks like an act, which is scummy to me.
VOTE: KainTepes

Ghhhhhhhh, I missed this before.
This sounds like Davesaz is going after the "low hanging fruit".

I think Dave may have jumped on easily. But I can't discredit the post or what he said, because I think that with KT too.

I feel that with KT, it's the newbieness that is stopping me making the vote on him, because I feel where my vote is right now, is the better option, with Eagle. Eagle is back from V/LA today so let's hopefully get some answers.

I dont like it because I am town, but if you all think I am a useless player then its ok lynch me...

That's not how it works on MafiaScum.
Normally, scumread players are good lynches. Lynching someone because they're useless or annoying is not a good idea, because it rarely has to do anything with their alignment.

Utility lynches

, however, do exist, but that's a different story. (That happens in weird Setups or situations when even someone's town their mere existence is detrimental and/or their death gives so much information that the gain is bigger than the loss. But this is not a situation like that.)

Yeah I agree with this.

There is something that we could go off from one of your previous posts, tbh.

And you wonder why I think this is all fake....

I don't think so.
By the way, Kop, you're so obv-town. ^_^ (For the others: I saw him as scum in another game a couple of weeks ago.)

It's an impression that I'm getting. We think differently so you may well not get that impression.

I see a lot of posturing from KainTepes about being aggressive, and that's good, because evil players aren't aggressive, and that's bad, so he needs to be aggressive.
Looks like an act, which is scummy to me.
VOTE: KainTepes

In your experience do newbscum go out of their way to draw attention to themselves like that?

Persivul, what are your thoughts so far?

[Kop]

Shouldn't that be 4 votes on EE?

[Kop]

Whatever. I don't want to deal with this atm. Maybe I'll get back to this game later, I'm still sick to my stomach over the way I was treated here. It may be acceptable to y'all, but that qualifies as an invasion of privacy in my book. I have no problem with what aneninen said, I do have a problem with the way he said it.

Could you point out this post that has made you feel this way, because as far as I can see, I don't see any posts that causes offence.

To pretend to understand me like that after playing that game the way he did.... And then defending him with that BS when the whole time you were agreeing with me- I hate the attacks made against me. Perhaps you guys are different from me and offended by different things, but that doesn't excuse attacking me for being offended by something like that- and I didn't ask much from him, just that he watchs his word choice. But instead of staying out of it you had to get into it. It isn't even really a game related topic and you defended him. My mind is still racing with why.

It would help if you could actually point out who this is aimed at.

And if anything, it gives me a town impression to anyone who doesn't watch what they say, because at the end of the day, scum are more likely to watch there word choice, or how they type there sentences, as opposed to someone who spell checks, thorough checks there posts to make sure they don't give anything alignment wise away. But that could just be me, because I know many times when I've played as scum, doesn't matter what style of posting I'm making I will read over and watch what I say in case I slip.

This is also a game, whatever is said, should not be taken to heart. People are going to gain an opinion on everything that is said in the thread, they can choose whether to get involved or not. I've only gotten involved in the whole thing by your earlier stance on over reactions, and how you've reacted to what ever this post that has offended you, something that you tried to imply before that was over reacting.

I'm sorry I really don't want to play after that BS. I could sit here and take apart every piece of that pile of horse waste of an argument that was used against me but I doubt I could get through your dense skull with a jackhammer, so I'm not even going to try. I need more space for the time being and if you push me I will either claim or replace out.

Seriously, I think your actions by coming into to something that doesn't really affect you was drastically and horrifyingly inappropriate.

See, I don't know what to make of this. Why have this attitude?

I've seen many players in my time playing mafia, have the wrong type of emotion. And it's not good, because at the end of the day, this just a game, if it gets heated, step away and come back when you've calmed down. By taking this stance in your post, it takes away from the game, yes some posts may offend, I've felt the same in a few games, but I've chosen to remain calm, and just fire back without resulting into taking things to heart.

I suppose everyone is different.

[Kop]

I remember Eagle from a recently finished game. Plenty of players wanted to lynch him because he'd had a kind of scummy attitude.
This attitude seems just as scummy, however, different to that one.
Either he's changed his gamestyle (I think he said so) or he's scum.

I don't know what to think.

Maybe he should be investigated if we have that one. Although, there may be a Godfather on the scum side.

What do you think about xtoxm?? He still needs to answer his question, he is taking too long,

Not much, so far.

Spam posting just gives scum a good place to hide and begs for a policy lynch.

The first part is very true.
Policy lynches, on the other hand, are never good.

Unless you'd like to explain what my attitude is and why my attitude is "scummy?"

If I knew, I'd point it out.
In YCBA many players thought you were scum, although I didn't think so, I put you somewhere in the wallspam-town section.
Now, your gameplay is different and if I hadn't met you before, I'd put you in the "bad-town" section.
But it's clear that your posts are different here and I don't know it's happening because you've changed your gamestyle or because you're scum.

Maybe he should be investigated if we have that one. Although, there may be a Godfather on the scum side.

I just read this again and it reads so bad. It's such a nothing comment.
VOTE: Aneninen

And I'll be even more speculative later.
I'd explained my reasons for doing so in the sign-up thread, before the game started.

My play style changes every game.

Okay, that's a kind of answer.
As for the later posts: what do you mean by "Aneninen shouldn't have said things he doesn't know"? I don't get it.

This?

1. This is an ok statement: "eagle looked like he had a really scummy attitude to a lot of players that game." I won't dispute this, I actually agree
2. This is not an ok statement: "eagle's attitude was really scummy that game" this is not ok he doesn't know what's going on inside my head

Originally, I said this:

I remember Eagle from a recently finished game. Plenty of players wanted to lynch him because he'd had a kind of scummy attitude. This attitude seems just as scummy, however, different to that one. Either he's changed his gamestyle (I think he said so) or he's scum.

Also, see my post above about the topic.

You're making something out of nothing.

Someone please raptor him before I get back. This is a personal matter he's invaded and is pushing on and I swear if he still pushes this when I get back I will push back like he's pushing me: personally.

Was that for me?
If so, I still don't get it why do you think I offened you or something like that.

Looking back through Aneninen ISO, I think these are the posts that have appeared to hurt Eagles feelings.

I actually don't see anything that offensive in there.

I think the whole thing has been blown way out of proportion.

[Kop]

Well we are finally seeing something from KT. Let's see how he progresses after this.

UNVOTE: EE

[Kop]

2. I do think Eagle is not a good lynch D1. I think this is a noobtown mislynch in the waiting and I will not touch it. I ask the rest of you to do the same. Good choices would be Burning Crystal or Persivul. (More info on this coming).

When will the more info come?

Current preferred lynches would be Smudger/Anen/Mad King. There are others I could compromise on, and others i'd be less enthusiastic to. I won't go into my town reads right now.

Where did those name come from?

@aneninen. Not mad at you. I wasn't even that messed up until acryon got into it.

Let's just say I have emotional issues that I need to deal with and I apologize for them leaking into the thread. I try to stop myself when I recognize I'm blowing things that don't matter at all into mountains, it's just hard to take a break and calm down when you have... ...things... Like acryon jumping in on things and just riling people up more.

Then let's leave this story where it belongs to. In the past.

Not that this has anything to do with the game, but how do you (or anyone else) have a flu for a day?

Fzzzzzzzrt.
(1) It might have meant the worst day of flu.
(2) Some people can have flu quickly and dreadfully. It lasts for only a couple of days, 2 or so, but those days are horrible.

I'm actually in agreement. Some people look better than others, but all of them have a good poker reads. (There are obviously some that are quicker to emotion, but it's striking me more-so as newbish)
The question I have for you is that if you're not really into voting anyone, what's with your vote on Ameninen?

They may have left it there from RVS. Actually I left my vote there from RVS, because I'm another player who simply can't find too much useful content.
I mean, most of the things happening have been about a couple of players, whereas apart from those things... nothing.

OK. I'm all caught up. There are more irrelevant posts in this thread than there are actually relevant ones. If I disregard the posts that are irritating in an irrelevant-to-game way I'd say Persy is the one standing out as a slight scum lean.

However, I need to sort out RC first. I haven't had the pleasure of meeting Rasko before, so I would certainly appreciate it if you guys signed your posts for me to tell who's actually doing the post.

Why is it more urgent to sort RC out first than anyone else?

You're putting us in a bad position here. I don't want to see someone get RL pissed off over this, but I've posted similar stuff in the past, and only when I was scum. It was partially true and partially strategic. When I'm town and I think I'm misunderstood or treated badly, I don't threaten to replace out, because I'm satisfied that my lynch is going to give town good info, and particularly on D1 when there's usually a mislynch anyway. All I see from you is concern about your personal survival. I don't see concern for town. Some people do get overly concerned with personal survival as town, but in general it's more often a scum trait, because scum have smaller teams and the loss of one has much greater impact than loss of a single town.

Erm... I can't explain it, why, but this is scum.
I often do such kind of appeasing posts or what-should-I-call-them, both as town as scum, and even if it can't be noticed (or at least, it has not been yet), I know my town-calm-down posts are different to my scum-calm-down posts.
I know it's weak but right now, better than nothing.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Persivul

You're ruining this game. It's no fun if someone is actually upset about it IRL.

mod, please replace me

Shyt.
UNVOTE:
I simply can't imagine a scum replacing out in this very situation.

________

Frankly, everyone!
Can't we just play? Like in all the other games?
Pisskop deserves a better playlist than we are, including me.

And I f-cking don't care if you think that's my scum-appeasing post, actually it's not, but even my lynch would be more contribution to this game than everything has happened so far.
Actually Persivul was posting something similar, wasn't he? And he got a scumread from me.
Good.
I'm an idiot.

*hitting a tin bucket with a rusty hammer, which sounds terribly*

I'm also interested in why the vote, then quote his wanting replacing post to unvote.

I've not participated with you in a game where you are scum, so I have zero idea what your like as scum.

[Kop]

I haven't properly caught up and I'm about to hit the hay, so I will catch up properly tomorrow afternoon at some point.

[Kop]

Is your scum read on them based on lurking/absence?

He quite specifically said that vote was to pressure them into hoping that he would come out and post.

I've done it before as scum, where I've delayed things by saying soon. It's one of those post words that you hope will appease the crowd and hope they forget about you.

That's true enough. I guess I could see someone replacing in without reading the game beforehand and realizing they were in over their heads or getting a role they didn't want, but I always read the thread beforehand because I only get town slots when I replace.

Parts of this is wrong.

How would someone replacing in not be happy that they didn't get a role they didn't want? I understand the semantics of it, but I can't see someone replacing in hoping to get a role they want. It never works like that, even signing up for a game doesn't get them a role they want.

[Kop]

My Anen read is based on not liking a handful of his comments combined with a healthy dose of meta. Things like voting and unvoting Pers in #261 i'm not really buying, just looks to me like he's trying to fake stream of consciousness. I don't have a scum meta on Anen but I do have a good amount of town, and his play here is very different to what I was expecting from town-Anen..So it follows that this is more likely to be his scum play. Certainly good enough for me to support for D1.

Your logic is wrong, but whatever.

Actually that vote/unvote was the result of my catching-up method. I saw Percivul's post which I found scummy and I saw him replacing out

after

I hit the Preview and I added that part next.
Obviously, I know it's only my words but that's all I can tell.

This part above goes for everyone.

So you added that part after seeing it after you hit the preview button? Why not just delete it and not say anything about it?

I understand people voting then seeing a post further if they just hit the quote button, and replying as they are catching up, instead of hitting Q+ and adding them to one big post.

But you actually saw the post in the preview before you even posted it, I don't understand that.

I'm not using this to paint you as scum, but that just doesn't make any sense. I don't know whether to place that into; you are trying to appear that you are keeping up; or in putting your thoughts out and making people see that you are actually thinking out loud in the thread.

[Kop]

Like from here it looks like you're trying to push over a bunch of rocks that are already on their side. I.e. you're not doing much. I like you and acryon for town but I haven't seen you seem to try to get anywhere

This post reeks of trying to buddy.

They are pushing you, so in aid to appease, try buddy them up in hope that they may change there stance towards you. Hmm.

Extrapolated Eagle, who do you actually suspect at this point, or think is worthy for a lynch?

[Kop]

Thoughts on players:

I like Titus, atm. Usually it puts me off when someone agrees with me/sees what I do because that never happens to me- I usually end up explaining forever and still get nowhere, but with Titus I think she's generally more likely to be town since she seems to look for similar things. In the first post of the game she shared my opinion of KT and THAT looks town on me. I don't like her oblivion pushes, however, but her push on kt reads sort of like her Klingon push in ycba. She won't be an easy read this game.

Acryon just reads weird to me and he seems emotionally detached and I don't like how he jumped on and pushed me like he was scum waiting to get into an emotional fight so someone could call tvt like Aphix did in the last game I played. He also addresses one of the most controversial players in the game ONCE and that is to link them to a page. He talks about them twice in defense.

KT reads fake to me still, but I could be wrong on him so I'll stick with that.

I don't like the post I saw out of townie but I really need more from him because that could just be style.

I don't remember what I saw in persivul earlier but I need to look through him and everyone else again to get a clearer read of them.

VOTE: acryon

@kt please explain your town read there

I've just seen these.

Ignore my last comment in previous post.

[Kop]

Is your scum read on them based on lurking/absence?

He quite specifically said that vote was to pressure them into hoping that he would come out and post.

I've done it before as scum, where I've delayed things by saying soon. It's one of those post words that you hope will appease the crowd and hope they forget about you.

Do you believe this is what he is doing? Your last sentence especially seems to imply so.

Oh also @EE, I just realized you said something about me being emotionally detached and that's just how I generally play the game so you shouldn't read it as either alignment.

If I don't see any contribution further to what he said and promised, then yes I think that.

But if he actually does back what he says up, then It's good, if he doesn't, then I'll feel obliged to up the pressure and hope that it draws him out.

I understand the point that he has replaced in, so may take longer to over read the past pages to catch up, but then there's a limit where he could be using that excuse to back up these coming soon posts, it just may get to a point where it's borderline using it as a tactic, because he could have replaced in to a scum slot.

(When I've done it as scum, I've done it right from the start, so I had no real excuse to give other than been busy, not had time to get on etc etc, I did these coming soon posts in order to appease the crowd. Sunset has replaced in, so if he has slotted into a scum slot, he has a perfectly good excuse to use in order to back these coming soon slots).

I just need to focus some of my attention onto seeing what moral ground he takes, because if he has slotted into a scum slot, he could be using this coming soon tactic to find where he is going to challenge his energy into, and not actually using that tactic to catch up. Where things are turning too, where could he find an easy route to go down without bringing any real suspicion, etc etc.

[Kop]

VOTE: Sunset Illusions

It's been 1 day 18 hours. I think almost 2 days is way over board for a post coming soon.

Question one; This is a question asking for others to provide reads, if he has read the thread, does he not have any reads of his own?

Question two; What has given him this impression, I think this is trying to either veer away from that possible lynch to distance oneself, I would like to see this more info for a case on Burning crystal or the Persivul slot.

Question three; What kind of question is that, seriously? It'll be the same answer it is for everyone on here.

[Kop]

VOTE: Sunset Illusions

It's been 1 day 18 hours. I think almost 2 days is way over board for a post coming soon.

Question one; This is a question asking for others to provide reads, if he has read the thread, does he not have any reads of his own?

Question two; What has given him this impression, I think this is trying to either veer away from that possible lynch to distance oneself, I would like to see this more info for a case on Burning crystal or the Persivul slot.

Question three; What kind of question is that, seriously? It'll be the same answer it is for everyone on here.

All the bold content is towards SI post.

[Kop]

Eight what time zone? .

He must live in Australia because it's been nearly 11 hours since he made that post. I'm in UK GMT time

[Kop]

14

kuroi -2 +3 =8 -11 =12 -==14 =39 -51 =77 | =51 =64

Aneninen R -4 ==6 -7 | =11 -14

Smudger ==3 +9 -10 | +14

acryon -3 v4 u119 R =31 | =11 =14

Persivul +=2 -10 R +316

pisskop -1 ==2 -13

plotinus = +1 +7 +8 -11 =12 +13 -=14 -443 | -577 -581 v626 =648

radiantcowbells =3 -5 -11 ✝

Whats this?

I'm thick you know.

VOTE: TOWNIE247

Trying to deceive us with his user name.

Nothing much to go off here but as scum voting townie is a kind of psychological thing that I'm not going to go into because this post is going to be long enough already

That was a RVS vote.

How is it psychological?

I am VERY aggressive in TOS, and I will do so here too, because that is the only way to catch evil players off guard and lynch them quickly. Quietness is not good which is why I want people to move

Whatever!! At least I am trying to play the game while you are just trying to distract people and picking on new players ilyvmjty. being aggressive does NOT mean i am fake or bad

Also your sucking up to Titus is disgusting, happy to vote you

These two posts do swing in one of two ways.

1). These are townie posts. Because scum wouldn't really want the game to progress as quickly as he points out.

2). These are fake town posts in hoping to make out he has town intentions without any real hunting of any sort.

And stating that your happy to vote, why don't you vote for him? What's holding you back from doing so?

Yeah that was a bit of an overreaction, sorry.

Let's forget that and go here:

I don't like burnings reaction.

VOTE: Burning Crystal

This one is serious.

You simply can't suspect someone for over reacting, then do it yourself and say we should forget about it. That's a contradiction, in my opinion.

VOTE: Extrapolated Eagle

Sets up KT for vote and then votes elsewhere. Feels more like trying to frame kt as town imo. :/

I voted elsewhere simply because you were the better vote at the time.

I put a theory out in the thread that was in my mind. I don't see that as setting someone up for a vote, keeping thoughts to myself isn't what this game is about.

If I suspected KT more than you at that time, I would have put my vote on KT simply for his game play at the start. However, you did a contradiction that I think warrants more focus with a vote, because a contradiction is a lot more suspicious than someone appearing to be faking his gamestyle.

VOTE: Townie247

VOTE: smugder

Two naked votes.

Are you kind enough to elaborate on these two, I know it's half and half in RVS, but it would be nice to see some justification to these votes, instead of trying to appear to be doing something.

Actually voting someone IS doing something, whereas saying things and not voting is something you do a lot of.

Voting indeed does something, but when it's nearer RVS than actually voting for someone you suspect, is not going to do a lot to make one think 'hang on'.

If you voted me early game during RVS, I'm not going to get my back up and start defending myself, especially when it's a vote that doesn't contain even a joke as to why that vote is there. Within that post you quoted, I tried to get some justification to why those votes were placed, so that I could see why they were there, and possibly the person they voted for, could have answered with something towards those votes. I don't think I recall those people ever questioning or even defending themselves against those votes. If they have and I've missed it, please do point them out to me.

So please don't try misrep me saying that votes don't do anything.

So what post has made Eagle get the hump? I don't think I've seen any personal attack towards Eagle that has made him react the way he has done. It's baffling that someone who claimed before about over reacting, as gone beyond an over reaction, to a point where he's likely to head this game into a personal confrontation. And I think if he's going to make it personal, it's going beyond the game, imo. Something strikes me that this is all sorts of fake where it is going to cause distractions, will scum do this? Possibly.

I don't know any of your game styles that you have portrayed in the past, so I can only go off what is in the thread. I like many others won't know what is going through your mind, all we can go off, is what you are putting in this thread. And for me, it's far too aggressive, along with contradictions.

I'm being too... Aggressive?
Wut? Also coming from the guy defending kt atm.
Also name two places where I contradict myself.

I can point out those posts that you were being aggressive. But I'll say this first, you blew everything out of proportion for god knows what, that you almost made it a personal attack rather than debating between each other.

listen here.

You.do.not.understand.my.attitude.because.if.you.did.you.would.always.know.with.100.percent.certainty.what.my.alignment.was.

You know what you PERCEIVE my attitude to be but do not dare to ever claim to know what my attitude is, bud.

I'm not doing this. I'll discuss this with y'all when I get back. Go back and reread everything y'all are posting, perhaps if you knew what you were arguing you'd figure out that y'all are contradicting yourselves left and right just to get a chance to disagree with me. What you are arguing (for the most part) isn't even game relevant and honestly after reading your posts it looks like you're attacking me because you feel like attacking me and you're not even paying attention to what you're saying. So. Go back. Figure out where you messed up and I won't have to take you apart when I get back. This isn't really game relevant but it's a point I feel really strongly about and if you don't back off I will fight this.

Someone please raptor him before I get back. This is a personal matter he's invaded and is pushing on and I swear if he still pushes this when I get back I will push back like he's pushing me: personally.

Yes you offended me but screw it it doesn't matter. Apparently I'm not allowed to have feelings this game. I'm not going on vacation angry, but I would like to know what on earth everyone thinks I'm trying to distract from. The fact that a lot of people thought I was town when I was scum?

Someone explain the reasons for scum reading me?

Whatever. I don't want to deal with this atm. Maybe I'll get back to this game later, I'm still sick to my stomach over the way I was treated here. It may be acceptable to y'all, but that qualifies as an invasion of privacy in my book. I have no problem with what aneninen said, I do have a problem with the way he said it. To pretend to understand me like that after playing that game the way he did.... And then defending him with that BS when the whole time you were agreeing with me- I hate the attacks made against me. Perhaps you guys are different from me and offended by different things, but that doesn't excuse attacking me for being offended by something like that- and I didn't ask much from him, just that he watchs his word choice. But instead of staying out of it you had to get into it. It isn't even really a game related topic and you defended him. My mind is still racing with why.

I'm sorry I really don't want to play after that BS. I could sit here and take apart every piece of that pile of horse waste of an argument that was used against me but I doubt I could get through your dense skull with a jackhammer, so I'm not even going to try. I need more space for the time being and if you push me I will either claim or replace out.

Seriously, I think your actions by coming into to something that doesn't really affect you was drastically and horrifyingly inappropriate.

Those posts may not appear aggressive, but the tone of the posts and the way it's worded, It strikes me that there is some aggression within those posts.

The contradiction is here; In this back and forth, it certainly set alarms off which made me put my vote on you over KT as I felt these few posts stood out a lot more than what KT was doing.

Titus seems like town based on reaction to Kaintepes.

@KT you sound fake to death.

Day is two weeks, btw.

I didn't say you were aggressive. I didn't say you were bad.

I am not distracting anyone, what would I distract from? If anything you draw attention from anything else happening, so if there was something distracting, you would be doing it.

I did not know you were new but I certainly hope that you aren't planning to continue to use that as an excuse in any game outside a newbie game.

I am not sucking up to Titus, I was responding to Aneninens post about her alignment.

Whatever!!

At least I am trying to play the game while you are just trying to distract people and picking on new players ilyvmjty.

being aggressive

does NOT mean i am fake or bad

Also your sucking up to Titus is disgusting,

happy to vote you

@KT you sound fake to death.

Fake, fake, fake. He's not distracting anybody, but you are over-reacting. I would vote you but I'm pretty sure we already are.

Overreacting to what? What are you talking about? Bringing up something that seems interesting and placing a vote in RVS? What have you been smoking?

Actually if you'd like to talk about overreacting, hard defending someone who hasn't yet even been accused of being scum nor had anything more than a semi-serious vote on them fits the bill quite nicely, don't you think?

How about you explain attacking someone for pushing their reads?

Just going to say that based on what we have here if I had a gun to my head I'd shoot KT and BC, and the former mostly because of the reaction of the latter. That's a really scummy, post, IMO.

See, your reaction to being called over reacting is over reacting. You made four posts that appeared very condescending.

Yeah that was a bit of an overreaction, sorry.

Let's forget that and go here:

I don't like burnings reaction.

VOTE: Burning Crystal

This one is serious.

Then you fly off onto the high horse for something that was 'said', I didn't feel warranted your over reaction. It set something off in my mind that just doesn't feel right.

Not that post, Eagle said I am "fake as hell" which is hurtful...
I do not know if Eagle is scum or town but I think Anen is good, he has been helpful and pressuring people,,!

How is it hurtful? He's playing the game and giving his thoughts, you claim to be aggressive but if a slight comment comes off aggressive towards you, you start hurling aTe around?

You can't claim to be aggressive but when something is thrown back at you, you can't claim it to be hurtful, considering aggressiveness as you claim you are, can be hurtful if used incorrectly.

This is what gives me also the impression that this whole charade of you claiming your aggressive is fake.

Sets up KT for vote again and then....
Nothing. :/

Calls KT fake and then doesn't push. What is this?

There's suspecting, questioning, and talking, that doesn't spell setting up for a vote.

See the tone of these posts, because you've said setting up enough times, it's like you would actually like me to vote KT.

But I want to be AGGRESSIVE like all the strong players and catch scum like they can... am I not aggressive enough??

I don't really think you should be asking that question.

How do you feel about this wagon forming on you?

Coaching and defending but he's not being direct about defending which makes his coaching so much more scummy. He's kind of indirectly defending and buddying kt and its scummy. Super bad ugly scummy

If I could actually be arsed to go trolling through every page to find further proof that this is wrong, I could go through some posts in this game that are actually helping KT with his gamestyle by many others. In hindsight, you could call that coaching, something to which you are also guilty off. So if you want to paint that picture, just make sure you also paint yourself into that too. Thanks.

I dont like it because I am town, but if you all think I am a useless player then its ok lynch me...

That's not the attitude you should be taking. If your style is aggressive, you should be dismantling your wagon by posting against your waggoner's. And arguing the toss.

And you wonder why I think this is all fake....

You're calling him fake while asking him to omgus his wagon and talking about how people should get on that wagon./quote]

Really? OMGUS his own wagon?

I simply stated he should be dismantling his wagon by posting against the people on his wagon. Votes on KT by a few should get KT to react to those votes, I asked him that attitude he took was defeatist and he should go against the people who are voting for him, that's not OMGUS, that's acting in defence and answering back to those people who suspect him. By not going back at them, is making that vote, worthless, doing nothing, because he's not even defending against those votes, he's laying defeat by not going against them.

That's not OMGUS, that's defending and arguing back with those voters.

The more I think of it the LESS it makes sense, it is just like the game in TOS where a person who was sheriff calimed Godfather (which is a bad role), and got lynched because everyone said "no I know you are not godfather because you are SHERIFF"??? But that is so dumb, because sheriff is actually a good role and godfather is a bad role, they just lynched him because they think he is fake, but in reality he is a good guy and the town lynched him even though they knew he was a good guy because that town was stupid, so dave is being the same,,,,

I think I understand the whole point of this, and it's relevance.

But assure you, we're not lynching you based on being a poor player or bowing to the demands of your previous post. That is not what this game is about, I don't like policy lynches as we never learn anything from them. So in truth, you aren't becoming a policy lynch, just because you think your a poor player.

I just would like to see some posturing from yourself to get back at those people voting for you, and to show them why there votes should be elsewhere. Something we have been seeing lack of.

More telling KT to OMGUS. Like what? Seriously take a stance on him.

See above. I would actually like to see his defence to those posters who voted for him.

I can't take a stance on someone with an attitude that spells defeated. I've seen that attitude in both alignments, and I'm not going to go policy lynch someone because they simply can't or won't defend themselves with a better case.

Whatever. I don't want to deal with this atm. Maybe I'll get back to this game later, I'm still sick to my stomach over the way I was treated here. It may be acceptable to y'all, but that qualifies as an invasion of privacy in my book. I have no problem with what aneninen said, I do have a problem with the way he said it.

Could you point out this post that has made you feel this way, because as far as I can see, I don't see any posts that causes offence.

To pretend to understand me like that after playing that game the way he did.... And then defending him with that BS when the whole time you were agreeing with me- I hate the attacks made against me. Perhaps you guys are different from me and offended by different things, but that doesn't excuse attacking me for being offended by something like that- and I didn't ask much from him, just that he watchs his word choice. But instead of staying out of it you had to get into it. It isn't even really a game related topic and you defended him. My mind is still racing with why.

It would help if you could actually point out who this is aimed at.

And if anything, it gives me a town impression to anyone who doesn't watch what they say, because at the end of the day, scum are more likely to watch there word choice, or how they type there sentences, as opposed to someone who spell checks, thorough checks there posts to make sure they don't give anything alignment wise away. But that could just be me, because I know many times when I've played as scum, doesn't matter what style of posting I'm making I will read over and watch what I say in case I slip.

This is also a game, whatever is said, should not be taken to heart. People are going to gain an opinion on everything that is said in the thread, they can choose whether to get involved or not. I've only gotten involved in the whole thing by your earlier stance on over reactions, and how you've reacted to what ever this post that has offended you, something that you tried to imply before that was over reacting.

I'm sorry I really don't want to play after that BS. I could sit here and take apart every piece of that pile of horse waste of an argument that was used against me but I doubt I could get through your dense skull with a jackhammer, so I'm not even going to try. I need more space for the time being and if you push me I will either claim or replace out.

Seriously, I think your actions by coming into to something that doesn't really affect you was drastically and horrifyingly inappropriate.

See, I don't know what to make of this. Why have this attitude?

I've seen many players in my time playing mafia, have the wrong type of emotion. And it's not good, because at the end of the day, this just a game, if it gets heated, step away and come back when you've calmed down. By taking this stance in your post, it takes away from the game, yes some posts may offend, I've felt the same in a few games, but I've chosen to remain calm, and just fire back without resulting into taking things to heart.

I suppose everyone is different.

See my last game with aphix. Actually its an easy scum metastatic on this site to just tunnel people all game. I've seen it in a large majority of my games.

I've seen tunnelling from both alignments. I don't use that as an indicator.

I will trawl through my list of games and find one where that person tunnelled for a lot, and he was town.

Well we are finally seeing something from KT. Let's see how he progresses after this.

UNVOTE: EE

I asked how these two things were related and I didn't get an answer so I'm going to extrapolate a bit here and say you think kt is scummier than I am and expect to be voting him soon. I think this is scummy if that's the case.

Where did you ask those two things were related? I might have missed that, I apologise.

I don't think KT is scummier than you, I've prodded sticks, interacted with KT, but I think it's more newbness in KT, than scummy. What you've done that made me vote you is a lot more scummier than KT.

2. I do think Eagle is not a good lynch D1. I think this is a noobtown mislynch in the waiting and I will not touch it. I ask the rest of you to do the same. Good choices would be Burning Crystal or Persivul. (More info on this coming).

When will the more info come?

Current preferred lynches would be Smudger/Anen/Mad King. There are others I could compromise on, and others i'd be less enthusiastic to. I won't go into my town reads right now.

Where did those name come from?

@aneninen. Not mad at you. I wasn't even that messed up until acryon got into it.

Let's just say I have emotional issues that I need to deal with and I apologize for them leaking into the thread. I try to stop myself when I recognize I'm blowing things that don't matter at all into mountains, it's just hard to take a break and calm down when you have... ...things... Like acryon jumping in on things and just riling people up more.

Then let's leave this story where it belongs to. In the past.

Not that this has anything to do with the game, but how do you (or anyone else) have a flu for a day?

Fzzzzzzzrt.
(1) It might have meant the worst day of flu.
(2) Some people can have flu quickly and dreadfully. It lasts for only a couple of days, 2 or so, but those days are horrible.

I'm actually in agreement. Some people look better than others, but all of them have a good poker reads. (There are obviously some that are quicker to emotion, but it's striking me more-so as newbish)
The question I have for you is that if you're not really into voting anyone, what's with your vote on Ameninen?

They may have left it there from RVS. Actually I left my vote there from RVS, because I'm another player who simply can't find too much useful content.
I mean, most of the things happening have been about a couple of players, whereas apart from those things... nothing.

OK. I'm all caught up. There are more irrelevant posts in this thread than there are actually relevant ones. If I disregard the posts that are irritating in an irrelevant-to-game way I'd say Persy is the one standing out as a slight scum lean.

However, I need to sort out RC first. I haven't had the pleasure of meeting Rasko before, so I would certainly appreciate it if you guys signed your posts for me to tell who's actually doing the post.

Why is it more urgent to sort RC out first than anyone else?

You're putting us in a bad position here. I don't want to see someone get RL pissed off over this, but I've posted similar stuff in the past, and only when I was scum. It was partially true and partially strategic. When I'm town and I think I'm misunderstood or treated badly, I don't threaten to replace out, because I'm satisfied that my lynch is going to give town good info, and particularly on D1 when there's usually a mislynch anyway. All I see from you is concern about your personal survival. I don't see concern for town. Some people do get overly concerned with personal survival as town, but in general it's more often a scum trait, because scum have smaller teams and the loss of one has much greater impact than loss of a single town.

Erm... I can't explain it, why, but this is scum.
I often do such kind of appeasing posts or what-should-I-call-them, both as town as scum, and even if it can't be noticed (or at least, it has not been yet), I know my town-calm-down posts are different to my scum-calm-down posts.
I know it's weak but right now, better than nothing.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Persivul

You're ruining this game. It's no fun if someone is actually upset about it IRL.

mod, please replace me

Shyt.
UNVOTE:
I simply can't imagine a scum replacing out in this very situation.

________

Frankly, everyone!
Can't we just play? Like in all the other games?
Pisskop deserves a better playlist than we are, including me.

And I f-cking don't care if you think that's my scum-appeasing post, actually it's not, but even my lynch would be more contribution to this game than everything has happened so far.
Actually Persivul was posting something similar, wasn't he? And he got a scumread from me.
Good.
I'm an idiot.

*hitting a tin bucket with a rusty hammer, which sounds terribly*

I'm also interested in why the vote, then quote his wanting replacing post to unvote.

I've not participated with you in a game where you are scum, so I have zero idea what your like as scum.

So... He wants to scum read people but he hasn't played with them before so he's going to keep playing it safe as he's been playing it all game long?

I've played a few times with Aneninen. And everytime he's been town, so I've not actually seen his scum game.

Is your scum read on them based on lurking/absence?

He quite specifically said that vote was to pressure them into hoping that he would come out and post.

I've done it before as scum, where I've delayed things by saying soon. It's one of those post words that you hope will appease the crowd and hope they forget about you.

That's true enough. I guess I could see someone replacing in without reading the game beforehand and realizing they were in over their heads or getting a role they didn't want, but I always read the thread beforehand because I only get town slots when I replace.

Parts of this is wrong.

How would someone replacing in not be happy that they didn't get a role they didn't want? I understand the semantics of it, but I can't see someone replacing in hoping to get a role they want. It never works like that, even signing up for a game doesn't get them a role they want.

The first part : yes, but also real life too. Like there are people who are quite a bit scummier than this and this is one thing that is (according to occams razer) more likely to come from not alignment indicative than scum.

The second part of this post: yes doing that may not necessarily be right, but saying what I'm saying is wrong is wrong and I have no idea why you would accuse me of lying about that. :/

I said parts of it is wrong, that doesn't say I said you are lying.

You are trying to twist words around.

If I said you were lying, I would not be using the words wrong. Using the word wrong means I'm disagreeing with some of your posts.

My Anen read is based on not liking a handful of his comments combined with a healthy dose of meta. Things like voting and unvoting Pers in #261 i'm not really buying, just looks to me like he's trying to fake stream of consciousness. I don't have a scum meta on Anen but I do have a good amount of town, and his play here is very different to what I was expecting from town-Anen..So it follows that this is more likely to be his scum play. Certainly good enough for me to support for D1.

Your logic is wrong, but whatever.

Actually that vote/unvote was the result of my catching-up method. I saw Percivul's post which I found scummy and I saw him replacing out

after

I hit the Preview and I added that part next.
Obviously, I know it's only my words but that's all I can tell.

This part above goes for everyone.

So you added that part after seeing it after you hit the preview button? Why not just delete it and not say anything about it?

I understand people voting then seeing a post further if they just hit the quote button, and replying as they are catching up, instead of hitting Q+ and adding them to one big post.

But you actually saw the post in the preview before you even posted it, I don't understand that.

I'm not using this to paint you as scum, but that just doesn't make any sense. I don't know whether to place that into; you are trying to appear that you are keeping up; or in putting your thoughts out and making people see that you are actually thinking out loud in the thread.

So youre not saying he's lying scum who needs to die, but you think he's lying scum that needs to die? Could you please play a little more carefully and push a little less? I like it when people sit on the fence and try not to stick out.

I've not said he needs to die. I've not voted for him purely based on that, I questioned the motive to that post, and gave two possible suggestions. Suggestions that aren't painting him as scum yet.

Like from here it looks like you're trying to push over a bunch of rocks that are already on their side. I.e. you're not doing much. I like you and acryon for town but I haven't seen you seem to try to get anywhere

This post reeks of trying to buddy.

They are pushing you, so in aid to appease, try buddy them up in hope that they may change there stance towards you. Hmm.

Extrapolated Eagle, who do you actually suspect at this point, or think is worthy for a lynch?

What on earth? How is that buddying? I'm calling them out for nowhere pushes. How is that buddying? If you want buddying go back and look at your interactions with kT

You like Burning Crystal and Acryon as town.

The Buddy point that I pointed out, you just happened to say those two names, because both have suspected you, or still do at that point of you posting, and say you like them for town. That is what makes me suspect you are trying to buddy them up, in hope to get them off your back.

I've seen scum buddy people who suspect them.

VOTE: Sunset Illusions

It's been 1 day 18 hours. I think almost 2 days is way over board for a post coming soon.

Question one; This is a question asking for others to provide reads, if he has read the thread, does he not have any reads of his own?

Question two; What has given him this impression, I think this is trying to either veer away from that possible lynch to distance oneself, I would like to see this more info for a case on Burning crystal or the Persivul slot.

Question three; What kind of question is that, seriously? It'll be the same answer it is for everyone on here.

this is a nasty read and a nasty push.

So yeah. I think kop is is probably scum.
VOTE: kop

Not a nasty push. Question one phrase I've seen scum do that. Question two, I've also seen scum do that.

Is that a nasty push considering I've seen scum do it? Nope, I can push what I think and experienced before.

[Kop]

14

kuroi -2 +3 =8 -11 =12 -==14 =39 -51 =77 | =51 =64

Aneninen R -4 ==6 -7 | =11 -14

Smudger ==3 +9 -10 | +14

acryon -3 v4 u119 R =31 | =11 =14

Persivul +=2 -10 R +316

pisskop -1 ==2 -13

plotinus = +1 +7 +8 -11 =12 +13 -=14 -443 | -577 -581 v626 =648

radiantcowbells =3 -5 -11 ✝

Whats this?

I'm thick you know.

VOTE: TOWNIE247

Trying to deceive us with his user name.

Nothing much to go off here but as scum voting townie is a kind of psychological thing that I'm not going to go into because this post is going to be long enough already

That was a RVS vote.

How is it psychological?

I am VERY aggressive in TOS, and I will do so here too, because that is the only way to catch evil players off guard and lynch them quickly. Quietness is not good which is why I want people to move

Whatever!! At least I am trying to play the game while you are just trying to distract people and picking on new players ilyvmjty. being aggressive does NOT mean i am fake or bad

Also your sucking up to Titus is disgusting, happy to vote you

These two posts do swing in one of two ways.

1). These are townie posts. Because scum wouldn't really want the game to progress as quickly as he points out.

2). These are fake town posts in hoping to make out he has town intentions without any real hunting of any sort.

And stating that your happy to vote, why don't you vote for him? What's holding you back from doing so?

Yeah that was a bit of an overreaction, sorry.

Let's forget that and go here:

I don't like burnings reaction.

VOTE: Burning Crystal

This one is serious.

You simply can't suspect someone for over reacting, then do it yourself and say we should forget about it. That's a contradiction, in my opinion.

VOTE: Extrapolated Eagle

Sets up KT for vote and then votes elsewhere. Feels more like trying to frame kt as town imo. :/

I voted elsewhere simply because you were the better vote at the time.

I put a theory out in the thread that was in my mind. I don't see that as setting someone up for a vote, keeping thoughts to myself isn't what this game is about.

If I suspected KT more than you at that time, I would have put my vote on KT simply for his game play at the start. However, you did a contradiction that I think warrants more focus with a vote, because a contradiction is a lot more suspicious than someone appearing to be faking his gamestyle.

VOTE: Townie247

VOTE: smugder

Two naked votes.

Are you kind enough to elaborate on these two, I know it's half and half in RVS, but it would be nice to see some justification to these votes, instead of trying to appear to be doing something.

Actually voting someone IS doing something, whereas saying things and not voting is something you do a lot of.

Voting indeed does something, but when it's nearer RVS than actually voting for someone you suspect, is not going to do a lot to make one think 'hang on'.

If you voted me early game during RVS, I'm not going to get my back up and start defending myself, especially when it's a vote that doesn't contain even a joke as to why that vote is there. Within that post you quoted, I tried to get some justification to why those votes were placed, so that I could see why they were there, and possibly the person they voted for, could have answered with something towards those votes. I don't think I recall those people ever questioning or even defending themselves against those votes. If they have and I've missed it, please do point them out to me.

So please don't try misrep me saying that votes don't do anything.

So what post has made Eagle get the hump? I don't think I've seen any personal attack towards Eagle that has made him react the way he has done. It's baffling that someone who claimed before about over reacting, as gone beyond an over reaction, to a point where he's likely to head this game into a personal confrontation. And I think if he's going to make it personal, it's going beyond the game, imo. Something strikes me that this is all sorts of fake where it is going to cause distractions, will scum do this? Possibly.

I don't know any of your game styles that you have portrayed in the past, so I can only go off what is in the thread. I like many others won't know what is going through your mind, all we can go off, is what you are putting in this thread. And for me, it's far too aggressive, along with contradictions.

I'm being too... Aggressive?
Wut? Also coming from the guy defending kt atm.
Also name two places where I contradict myself.

I can point out those posts that you were being aggressive. But I'll say this first, you blew everything out of proportion for god knows what, that you almost made it a personal attack rather than debating between each other.

listen here.

You.do.not.understand.my.attitude.because.if.you.did.you.would.always.know.with.100.percent.certainty.what.my.alignment.was.

You know what you PERCEIVE my attitude to be but do not dare to ever claim to know what my attitude is, bud.

I'm not doing this. I'll discuss this with y'all when I get back. Go back and reread everything y'all are posting, perhaps if you knew what you were arguing you'd figure out that y'all are contradicting yourselves left and right just to get a chance to disagree with me. What you are arguing (for the most part) isn't even game relevant and honestly after reading your posts it looks like you're attacking me because you feel like attacking me and you're not even paying attention to what you're saying. So. Go back. Figure out where you messed up and I won't have to take you apart when I get back. This isn't really game relevant but it's a point I feel really strongly about and if you don't back off I will fight this.

Someone please raptor him before I get back. This is a personal matter he's invaded and is pushing on and I swear if he still pushes this when I get back I will push back like he's pushing me: personally.

Yes you offended me but screw it it doesn't matter. Apparently I'm not allowed to have feelings this game. I'm not going on vacation angry, but I would like to know what on earth everyone thinks I'm trying to distract from. The fact that a lot of people thought I was town when I was scum?

Someone explain the reasons for scum reading me?

Whatever. I don't want to deal with this atm. Maybe I'll get back to this game later, I'm still sick to my stomach over the way I was treated here. It may be acceptable to y'all, but that qualifies as an invasion of privacy in my book. I have no problem with what aneninen said, I do have a problem with the way he said it. To pretend to understand me like that after playing that game the way he did.... And then defending him with that BS when the whole time you were agreeing with me- I hate the attacks made against me. Perhaps you guys are different from me and offended by different things, but that doesn't excuse attacking me for being offended by something like that- and I didn't ask much from him, just that he watchs his word choice. But instead of staying out of it you had to get into it. It isn't even really a game related topic and you defended him. My mind is still racing with why.

I'm sorry I really don't want to play after that BS. I could sit here and take apart every piece of that pile of horse waste of an argument that was used against me but I doubt I could get through your dense skull with a jackhammer, so I'm not even going to try. I need more space for the time being and if you push me I will either claim or replace out.

Seriously, I think your actions by coming into to something that doesn't really affect you was drastically and horrifyingly inappropriate.

Those posts may not appear aggressive, but the tone of the posts and the way it's worded, It strikes me that there is some aggression within those posts.

The contradiction is here; In this back and forth, it certainly set alarms off which made me put my vote on you over KT as I felt these few posts stood out a lot more than what KT was doing.

Titus seems like town based on reaction to Kaintepes.

@KT you sound fake to death.

Day is two weeks, btw.

I didn't say you were aggressive. I didn't say you were bad.

I am not distracting anyone, what would I distract from? If anything you draw attention from anything else happening, so if there was something distracting, you would be doing it.

I did not know you were new but I certainly hope that you aren't planning to continue to use that as an excuse in any game outside a newbie game.

I am not sucking up to Titus, I was responding to Aneninens post about her alignment.

Whatever!!

At least I am trying to play the game while you are just trying to distract people and picking on new players ilyvmjty.

being aggressive

does NOT mean i am fake or bad

Also your sucking up to Titus is disgusting,

happy to vote you

@KT you sound fake to death.

Fake, fake, fake. He's not distracting anybody, but you are over-reacting. I would vote you but I'm pretty sure we already are.

Overreacting to what? What are you talking about? Bringing up something that seems interesting and placing a vote in RVS? What have you been smoking?

Actually if you'd like to talk about overreacting, hard defending someone who hasn't yet even been accused of being scum nor had anything more than a semi-serious vote on them fits the bill quite nicely, don't you think?

How about you explain attacking someone for pushing their reads?

Just going to say that based on what we have here if I had a gun to my head I'd shoot KT and BC, and the former mostly because of the reaction of the latter. That's a really scummy, post, IMO.

See, your reaction to being called over reacting is over reacting. You made four posts that appeared very condescending.

Yeah that was a bit of an overreaction, sorry.

Let's forget that and go here:

I don't like burnings reaction.

VOTE: Burning Crystal

This one is serious.

Then you fly off onto the high horse for something that was 'said', I didn't feel warranted your over reaction. It set something off in my mind that just doesn't feel right.

Not that post, Eagle said I am "fake as hell" which is hurtful...
I do not know if Eagle is scum or town but I think Anen is good, he has been helpful and pressuring people,,!

How is it hurtful? He's playing the game and giving his thoughts, you claim to be aggressive but if a slight comment comes off aggressive towards you, you start hurling aTe around?

You can't claim to be aggressive but when something is thrown back at you, you can't claim it to be hurtful, considering aggressiveness as you claim you are, can be hurtful if used incorrectly.

This is what gives me also the impression that this whole charade of you claiming your aggressive is fake.

Sets up KT for vote again and then....
Nothing. :/

Calls KT fake and then doesn't push. What is this?

There's suspecting, questioning, and talking, that doesn't spell setting up for a vote.

See the tone of these posts, because you've said setting up enough times, it's like you would actually like me to vote KT.

But I want to be AGGRESSIVE like all the strong players and catch scum like they can... am I not aggressive enough??

I don't really think you should be asking that question.

How do you feel about this wagon forming on you?

Coaching and defending but he's not being direct about defending which makes his coaching so much more scummy. He's kind of indirectly defending and buddying kt and its scummy. Super bad ugly scummy

If I could actually be arsed to go trolling through every page to find further proof that this is wrong, I could go through some posts in this game that are actually helping KT with his gamestyle by many others. In hindsight, you could call that coaching, something to which you are also guilty off. So if you want to paint that picture, just make sure you also paint yourself into that too. Thanks.

I dont like it because I am town, but if you all think I am a useless player then its ok lynch me...

That's not the attitude you should be taking. If your style is aggressive, you should be dismantling your wagon by posting against your waggoner's. And arguing the toss.

And you wonder why I think this is all fake....

You're calling him fake while asking him to omgus his wagon and talking about how people should get on that wagon./quote]

Really? OMGUS his own wagon?

I simply stated he should be dismantling his wagon by posting against the people on his wagon. Votes on KT by a few should get KT to react to those votes, I asked him that attitude he took was defeatist and he should go against the people who are voting for him, that's not OMGUS, that's acting in defence and answering back to those people who suspect him. By not going back at them, is making that vote, worthless, doing nothing, because he's not even defending against those votes, he's laying defeat by not going against them.

That's not OMGUS, that's defending and arguing back with those voters.

The more I think of it the LESS it makes sense, it is just like the game in TOS where a person who was sheriff calimed Godfather (which is a bad role), and got lynched because everyone said "no I know you are not godfather because you are SHERIFF"??? But that is so dumb, because sheriff is actually a good role and godfather is a bad role, they just lynched him because they think he is fake, but in reality he is a good guy and the town lynched him even though they knew he was a good guy because that town was stupid, so dave is being the same,,,,

I think I understand the whole point of this, and it's relevance.

But assure you, we're not lynching you based on being a poor player or bowing to the demands of your previous post. That is not what this game is about, I don't like policy lynches as we never learn anything from them. So in truth, you aren't becoming a policy lynch, just because you think your a poor player.

I just would like to see some posturing from yourself to get back at those people voting for you, and to show them why there votes should be elsewhere. Something we have been seeing lack of.

More telling KT to OMGUS. Like what? Seriously take a stance on him.

See above. I would actually like to see his defence to those posters who voted for him.

I can't take a stance on someone with an attitude that spells defeated. I've seen that attitude in both alignments, and I'm not going to go policy lynch someone because they simply can't or won't defend themselves with a better case.

Whatever. I don't want to deal with this atm. Maybe I'll get back to this game later, I'm still sick to my stomach over the way I was treated here. It may be acceptable to y'all, but that qualifies as an invasion of privacy in my book. I have no problem with what aneninen said, I do have a problem with the way he said it.

Could you point out this post that has made you feel this way, because as far as I can see, I don't see any posts that causes offence.

To pretend to understand me like that after playing that game the way he did.... And then defending him with that BS when the whole time you were agreeing with me- I hate the attacks made against me. Perhaps you guys are different from me and offended by different things, but that doesn't excuse attacking me for being offended by something like that- and I didn't ask much from him, just that he watchs his word choice. But instead of staying out of it you had to get into it. It isn't even really a game related topic and you defended him. My mind is still racing with why.

It would help if you could actually point out who this is aimed at.

And if anything, it gives me a town impression to anyone who doesn't watch what they say, because at the end of the day, scum are more likely to watch there word choice, or how they type there sentences, as opposed to someone who spell checks, thorough checks there posts to make sure they don't give anything alignment wise away. But that could just be me, because I know many times when I've played as scum, doesn't matter what style of posting I'm making I will read over and watch what I say in case I slip.

This is also a game, whatever is said, should not be taken to heart. People are going to gain an opinion on everything that is said in the thread, they can choose whether to get involved or not. I've only gotten involved in the whole thing by your earlier stance on over reactions, and how you've reacted to what ever this post that has offended you, something that you tried to imply before that was over reacting.

I'm sorry I really don't want to play after that BS. I could sit here and take apart every piece of that pile of horse waste of an argument that was used against me but I doubt I could get through your dense skull with a jackhammer, so I'm not even going to try. I need more space for the time being and if you push me I will either claim or replace out.

Seriously, I think your actions by coming into to something that doesn't really affect you was drastically and horrifyingly inappropriate.

See, I don't know what to make of this. Why have this attitude?

I've seen many players in my time playing mafia, have the wrong type of emotion. And it's not good, because at the end of the day, this just a game, if it gets heated, step away and come back when you've calmed down. By taking this stance in your post, it takes away from the game, yes some posts may offend, I've felt the same in a few games, but I've chosen to remain calm, and just fire back without resulting into taking things to heart.

I suppose everyone is different.

See my last game with aphix. Actually its an easy scum metastatic on this site to just tunnel people all game. I've seen it in a large majority of my games.

I've seen tunnelling from both alignments. I don't use that as an indicator.

I will trawl through my list of games and find one where that person tunnelled for a lot, and he was town.

Well we are finally seeing something from KT. Let's see how he progresses after this.

UNVOTE: EE

I asked how these two things were related and I didn't get an answer so I'm going to extrapolate a bit here and say you think kt is scummier than I am and expect to be voting him soon. I think this is scummy if that's the case.

Where did you ask those two things were related? I might have missed that, I apologise.

I don't think KT is scummier than you, I've prodded sticks, interacted with KT, but I think it's more newbness in KT, than scummy. What you've done that made me vote you is a lot more scummier than KT.

2. I do think Eagle is not a good lynch D1. I think this is a noobtown mislynch in the waiting and I will not touch it. I ask the rest of you to do the same. Good choices would be Burning Crystal or Persivul. (More info on this coming).

When will the more info come?

Current preferred lynches would be Smudger/Anen/Mad King. There are others I could compromise on, and others i'd be less enthusiastic to. I won't go into my town reads right now.

Where did those name come from?

@aneninen. Not mad at you. I wasn't even that messed up until acryon got into it.

Let's just say I have emotional issues that I need to deal with and I apologize for them leaking into the thread. I try to stop myself when I recognize I'm blowing things that don't matter at all into mountains, it's just hard to take a break and calm down when you have... ...things... Like acryon jumping in on things and just riling people up more.

Then let's leave this story where it belongs to. In the past.

Not that this has anything to do with the game, but how do you (or anyone else) have a flu for a day?

Fzzzzzzzrt.
(1) It might have meant the worst day of flu.
(2) Some people can have flu quickly and dreadfully. It lasts for only a couple of days, 2 or so, but those days are horrible.

I'm actually in agreement. Some people look better than others, but all of them have a good poker reads. (There are obviously some that are quicker to emotion, but it's striking me more-so as newbish)
The question I have for you is that if you're not really into voting anyone, what's with your vote on Ameninen?

They may have left it there from RVS. Actually I left my vote there from RVS, because I'm another player who simply can't find too much useful content.
I mean, most of the things happening have been about a couple of players, whereas apart from those things... nothing.

OK. I'm all caught up. There are more irrelevant posts in this thread than there are actually relevant ones. If I disregard the posts that are irritating in an irrelevant-to-game way I'd say Persy is the one standing out as a slight scum lean.

However, I need to sort out RC first. I haven't had the pleasure of meeting Rasko before, so I would certainly appreciate it if you guys signed your posts for me to tell who's actually doing the post.

Why is it more urgent to sort RC out first than anyone else?

You're putting us in a bad position here. I don't want to see someone get RL pissed off over this, but I've posted similar stuff in the past, and only when I was scum. It was partially true and partially strategic. When I'm town and I think I'm misunderstood or treated badly, I don't threaten to replace out, because I'm satisfied that my lynch is going to give town good info, and particularly on D1 when there's usually a mislynch anyway. All I see from you is concern about your personal survival. I don't see concern for town. Some people do get overly concerned with personal survival as town, but in general it's more often a scum trait, because scum have smaller teams and the loss of one has much greater impact than loss of a single town.

Erm... I can't explain it, why, but this is scum.
I often do such kind of appeasing posts or what-should-I-call-them, both as town as scum, and even if it can't be noticed (or at least, it has not been yet), I know my town-calm-down posts are different to my scum-calm-down posts.
I know it's weak but right now, better than nothing.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Persivul

You're ruining this game. It's no fun if someone is actually upset about it IRL.

mod, please replace me

Shyt.
UNVOTE:
I simply can't imagine a scum replacing out in this very situation.

________

Frankly, everyone!
Can't we just play? Like in all the other games?
Pisskop deserves a better playlist than we are, including me.

And I f-cking don't care if you think that's my scum-appeasing post, actually it's not, but even my lynch would be more contribution to this game than everything has happened so far.
Actually Persivul was posting something similar, wasn't he? And he got a scumread from me.
Good.
I'm an idiot.

*hitting a tin bucket with a rusty hammer, which sounds terribly*

I'm also interested in why the vote, then quote his wanting replacing post to unvote.

I've not participated with you in a game where you are scum, so I have zero idea what your like as scum.

So... He wants to scum read people but he hasn't played with them before so he's going to keep playing it safe as he's been playing it all game long?

I've played a few times with Aneninen. And everytime he's been town, so I've not actually seen his scum game.

Is your scum read on them based on lurking/absence?

He quite specifically said that vote was to pressure them into hoping that he would come out and post.

I've done it before as scum, where I've delayed things by saying soon. It's one of those post words that you hope will appease the crowd and hope they forget about you.

That's true enough. I guess I could see someone replacing in without reading the game beforehand and realizing they were in over their heads or getting a role they didn't want, but I always read the thread beforehand because I only get town slots when I replace.

Parts of this is wrong.

How would someone replacing in not be happy that they didn't get a role they didn't want? I understand the semantics of it, but I can't see someone replacing in hoping to get a role they want. It never works like that, even signing up for a game doesn't get them a role they want.

The first part : yes, but also real life too. Like there are people who are quite a bit scummier than this and this is one thing that is (according to occams razer) more likely to come from not alignment indicative than scum.

The second part of this post: yes doing that may not necessarily be right, but saying what I'm saying is wrong is wrong and I have no idea why you would accuse me of lying about that. :/

I said parts of it is wrong, that doesn't say I said you are lying.

You are trying to twist words around.

If I said you were lying, I would not be using the words wrong. Using the word wrong means I'm disagreeing with some of your posts.

My Anen read is based on not liking a handful of his comments combined with a healthy dose of meta. Things like voting and unvoting Pers in #261 i'm not really buying, just looks to me like he's trying to fake stream of consciousness. I don't have a scum meta on Anen but I do have a good amount of town, and his play here is very different to what I was expecting from town-Anen..So it follows that this is more likely to be his scum play. Certainly good enough for me to support for D1.

Your logic is wrong, but whatever.

Actually that vote/unvote was the result of my catching-up method. I saw Percivul's post which I found scummy and I saw him replacing out

after

I hit the Preview and I added that part next.
Obviously, I know it's only my words but that's all I can tell.

This part above goes for everyone.

So you added that part after seeing it after you hit the preview button? Why not just delete it and not say anything about it?

I understand people voting then seeing a post further if they just hit the quote button, and replying as they are catching up, instead of hitting Q+ and adding them to one big post.

But you actually saw the post in the preview before you even posted it, I don't understand that.

I'm not using this to paint you as scum, but that just doesn't make any sense. I don't know whether to place that into; you are trying to appear that you are keeping up; or in putting your thoughts out and making people see that you are actually thinking out loud in the thread.

So youre not saying he's lying scum who needs to die, but you think he's lying scum that needs to die? Could you please play a little more carefully and push a little less? I like it when people sit on the fence and try not to stick out.

I've not said he needs to die. I've not voted for him purely based on that, I questioned the motive to that post, and gave two possible suggestions. Suggestions that aren't painting him as scum yet.

Like from here it looks like you're trying to push over a bunch of rocks that are already on their side. I.e. you're not doing much. I like you and acryon for town but I haven't seen you seem to try to get anywhere

This post reeks of trying to buddy.

They are pushing you, so in aid to appease, try buddy them up in hope that they may change there stance towards you. Hmm.

Extrapolated Eagle, who do you actually suspect at this point, or think is worthy for a lynch?

What on earth? How is that buddying? I'm calling them out for nowhere pushes. How is that buddying? If you want buddying go back and look at your interactions with kT

You like Burning Crystal and Acryon as town.

The Buddy point that I pointed out, you just happened to say those two names, because both have suspected you, or still do at that point of you posting, and say you like them for town. That is what makes me suspect you are trying to buddy them up, in hope to get them off your back.

I've seen scum buddy people who suspect them.

VOTE: Sunset Illusions

It's been 1 day 18 hours. I think almost 2 days is way over board for a post coming soon.

Question one; This is a question asking for others to provide reads, if he has read the thread, does he not have any reads of his own?

Question two; What has given him this impression, I think this is trying to either veer away from that possible lynch to distance oneself, I would like to see this more info for a case on Burning crystal or the Persivul slot.

Question three; What kind of question is that, seriously? It'll be the same answer it is for everyone on here.

this is a nasty read and a nasty push.

So yeah. I think kop is is probably scum.
VOTE: kop

Not a nasty push. Question one phrase I've seen scum do that. Question two, I've also seen scum do that.

Is that a nasty push considering I've seen scum do it? Nope, I can push what I think and experienced before.

I've knacked the quotes up. Let me fix it.

[Kop]

Spoiler: Spoilered

14

kuroi -2 +3 =8 -11 =12 -==14 =39 -51 =77 | =51 =64

Aneninen R -4 ==6 -7 | =11 -14

Smudger ==3 +9 -10 | +14

acryon -3 v4 u119 R =31 | =11 =14

Persivul +=2 -10 R +316

pisskop -1 ==2 -13

plotinus = +1 +7 +8 -11 =12 +13 -=14 -443 | -577 -581 v626 =648

radiantcowbells =3 -5 -11 ✝

Whats this?

I'm thick you know.

VOTE: TOWNIE247

Trying to deceive us with his user name.

Nothing much to go off here but as scum voting townie is a kind of psychological thing that I'm not going to go into because this post is going to be long enough already

That was a RVS vote.

How is it psychological?

I am VERY aggressive in TOS, and I will do so here too, because that is the only way to catch evil players off guard and lynch them quickly. Quietness is not good which is why I want people to move

Whatever!! At least I am trying to play the game while you are just trying to distract people and picking on new players ilyvmjty. being aggressive does NOT mean i am fake or bad

Also your sucking up to Titus is disgusting, happy to vote you

These two posts do swing in one of two ways.

1). These are townie posts. Because scum wouldn't really want the game to progress as quickly as he points out.

2). These are fake town posts in hoping to make out he has town intentions without any real hunting of any sort.

And stating that your happy to vote, why don't you vote for him? What's holding you back from doing so?

Yeah that was a bit of an overreaction, sorry.

Let's forget that and go here:

I don't like burnings reaction.

VOTE: Burning Crystal

This one is serious.

You simply can't suspect someone for over reacting, then do it yourself and say we should forget about it. That's a contradiction, in my opinion.

VOTE: Extrapolated Eagle

Sets up KT for vote and then votes elsewhere. Feels more like trying to frame kt as town imo. :/

I voted elsewhere simply because you were the better vote at the time.

I put a theory out in the thread that was in my mind. I don't see that as setting someone up for a vote, keeping thoughts to myself isn't what this game is about.

If I suspected KT more than you at that time, I would have put my vote on KT simply for his game play at the start. However, you did a contradiction that I think warrants more focus with a vote, because a contradiction is a lot more suspicious than someone appearing to be faking his gamestyle.

VOTE: Townie247

VOTE: smugder

Two naked votes.

Are you kind enough to elaborate on these two, I know it's half and half in RVS, but it would be nice to see some justification to these votes, instead of trying to appear to be doing something.

Actually voting someone IS doing something, whereas saying things and not voting is something you do a lot of.

Voting indeed does something, but when it's nearer RVS than actually voting for someone you suspect, is not going to do a lot to make one think 'hang on'.

If you voted me early game during RVS, I'm not going to get my back up and start defending myself, especially when it's a vote that doesn't contain even a joke as to why that vote is there. Within that post you quoted, I tried to get some justification to why those votes were placed, so that I could see why they were there, and possibly the person they voted for, could have answered with something towards those votes. I don't think I recall those people ever questioning or even defending themselves against those votes. If they have and I've missed it, please do point them out to me.

So please don't try misrep me saying that votes don't do anything.

So what post has made Eagle get the hump? I don't think I've seen any personal attack towards Eagle that has made him react the way he has done. It's baffling that someone who claimed before about over reacting, as gone beyond an over reaction, to a point where he's likely to head this game into a personal confrontation. And I think if he's going to make it personal, it's going beyond the game, imo. Something strikes me that this is all sorts of fake where it is going to cause distractions, will scum do this? Possibly.

I don't know any of your game styles that you have portrayed in the past, so I can only go off what is in the thread. I like many others won't know what is going through your mind, all we can go off, is what you are putting in this thread. And for me, it's far too aggressive, along with contradictions.

I'm being too... Aggressive?
Wut? Also coming from the guy defending kt atm.
Also name two places where I contradict myself.

I can point out those posts that you were being aggressive. But I'll say this first, you blew everything out of proportion for god knows what, that you almost made it a personal attack rather than debating between each other.

listen here.

You.do.not.understand.my.attitude.because.if.you.did.you.would.always.know.with.100.percent.certainty.what.my.alignment.was.

You know what you PERCEIVE my attitude to be but do not dare to ever claim to know what my attitude is, bud.

I'm not doing this. I'll discuss this with y'all when I get back. Go back and reread everything y'all are posting, perhaps if you knew what you were arguing you'd figure out that y'all are contradicting yourselves left and right just to get a chance to disagree with me. What you are arguing (for the most part) isn't even game relevant and honestly after reading your posts it looks like you're attacking me because you feel like attacking me and you're not even paying attention to what you're saying. So. Go back. Figure out where you messed up and I won't have to take you apart when I get back. This isn't really game relevant but it's a point I feel really strongly about and if you don't back off I will fight this.

Someone please raptor him before I get back. This is a personal matter he's invaded and is pushing on and I swear if he still pushes this when I get back I will push back like he's pushing me: personally.

Yes you offended me but screw it it doesn't matter. Apparently I'm not allowed to have feelings this game. I'm not going on vacation angry, but I would like to know what on earth everyone thinks I'm trying to distract from. The fact that a lot of people thought I was town when I was scum?

Someone explain the reasons for scum reading me?

Whatever. I don't want to deal with this atm. Maybe I'll get back to this game later, I'm still sick to my stomach over the way I was treated here. It may be acceptable to y'all, but that qualifies as an invasion of privacy in my book. I have no problem with what aneninen said, I do have a problem with the way he said it. To pretend to understand me like that after playing that game the way he did.... And then defending him with that BS when the whole time you were agreeing with me- I hate the attacks made against me. Perhaps you guys are different from me and offended by different things, but that doesn't excuse attacking me for being offended by something like that- and I didn't ask much from him, just that he watchs his word choice. But instead of staying out of it you had to get into it. It isn't even really a game related topic and you defended him. My mind is still racing with why.

I'm sorry I really don't want to play after that BS. I could sit here and take apart every piece of that pile of horse waste of an argument that was used against me but I doubt I could get through your dense skull with a jackhammer, so I'm not even going to try. I need more space for the time being and if you push me I will either claim or replace out.

Seriously, I think your actions by coming into to something that doesn't really affect you was drastically and horrifyingly inappropriate.

Those posts may not appear aggressive, but the tone of the posts and the way it's worded, It strikes me that there is some aggression within those posts.

The contradiction is here; In this back and forth, it certainly set alarms off which made me put my vote on you over KT as I felt these few posts stood out a lot more than what KT was doing.

Titus seems like town based on reaction to Kaintepes.

@KT you sound fake to death.

Day is two weeks, btw.

I didn't say you were aggressive. I didn't say you were bad.

I am not distracting anyone, what would I distract from? If anything you draw attention from anything else happening, so if there was something distracting, you would be doing it.

I did not know you were new but I certainly hope that you aren't planning to continue to use that as an excuse in any game outside a newbie game.

I am not sucking up to Titus, I was responding to Aneninens post about her alignment.

Whatever!!

At least I am trying to play the game while you are just trying to distract people and picking on new players ilyvmjty.

being aggressive

does NOT mean i am fake or bad

Also your sucking up to Titus is disgusting,

happy to vote you

@KT you sound fake to death.

Fake, fake, fake. He's not distracting anybody, but you are over-reacting. I would vote you but I'm pretty sure we already are.

Overreacting to what? What are you talking about? Bringing up something that seems interesting and placing a vote in RVS? What have you been smoking?

Actually if you'd like to talk about overreacting, hard defending someone who hasn't yet even been accused of being scum nor had anything more than a semi-serious vote on them fits the bill quite nicely, don't you think?

How about you explain attacking someone for pushing their reads?

Just going to say that based on what we have here if I had a gun to my head I'd shoot KT and BC, and the former mostly because of the reaction of the latter. That's a really scummy, post, IMO.

See, your reaction to being called over reacting is over reacting. You made four posts that appeared very condescending.

Yeah that was a bit of an overreaction, sorry.

Let's forget that and go here:

I don't like burnings reaction.

VOTE: Burning Crystal

This one is serious.

Then you fly off onto the high horse for something that was 'said', I didn't feel warranted your over reaction. It set something off in my mind that just doesn't feel right.

Not that post, Eagle said I am "fake as hell" which is hurtful...
I do not know if Eagle is scum or town but I think Anen is good, he has been helpful and pressuring people,,!

How is it hurtful? He's playing the game and giving his thoughts, you claim to be aggressive but if a slight comment comes off aggressive towards you, you start hurling aTe around?

You can't claim to be aggressive but when something is thrown back at you, you can't claim it to be hurtful, considering aggressiveness as you claim you are, can be hurtful if used incorrectly.

This is what gives me also the impression that this whole charade of you claiming your aggressive is fake.

Sets up KT for vote again and then....
Nothing. :/

Calls KT fake and then doesn't push. What is this?

There's suspecting, questioning, and talking, that doesn't spell setting up for a vote.

See the tone of these posts, because you've said setting up enough times, it's like you would actually like me to vote KT.

But I want to be AGGRESSIVE like all the strong players and catch scum like they can... am I not aggressive enough??

I don't really think you should be asking that question.

How do you feel about this wagon forming on you?

Coaching and defending but he's not being direct about defending which makes his coaching so much more scummy. He's kind of indirectly defending and buddying kt and its scummy. Super bad ugly scummy

If I could actually be arsed to go trolling through every page to find further proof that this is wrong, I could go through some posts in this game that are actually helping KT with his gamestyle by many others. In hindsight, you could call that coaching, something to which you are also guilty off. So if you want to paint that picture, just make sure you also paint yourself into that too. Thanks.

I dont like it because I am town, but if you all think I am a useless player then its ok lynch me...

That's not the attitude you should be taking. If your style is aggressive, you should be dismantling your wagon by posting against your waggoner's. And arguing the toss.

And you wonder why I think this is all fake....

You're calling him fake while asking him to omgus his wagon and talking about how people should get on that wagon.

Really? OMGUS his own wagon?

I simply stated he should be dismantling his wagon by posting against the people on his wagon. Votes on KT by a few should get KT to react to those votes, I asked him that attitude he took was defeatist and he should go against the people who are voting for him, that's not OMGUS, that's acting in defence and answering back to those people who suspect him. By not going back at them, is making that vote, worthless, doing nothing, because he's not even defending against those votes, he's laying defeat by not going against them.

That's not OMGUS, that's defending and arguing back with those voters.

The more I think of it the LESS it makes sense, it is just like the game in TOS where a person who was sheriff calimed Godfather (which is a bad role), and got lynched because everyone said "no I know you are not godfather because you are SHERIFF"??? But that is so dumb, because sheriff is actually a good role and godfather is a bad role, they just lynched him because they think he is fake, but in reality he is a good guy and the town lynched him even though they knew he was a good guy because that town was stupid, so dave is being the same,,,,

I think I understand the whole point of this, and it's relevance.

But assure you, we're not lynching you based on being a poor player or bowing to the demands of your previous post. That is not what this game is about, I don't like policy lynches as we never learn anything from them. So in truth, you aren't becoming a policy lynch, just because you think your a poor player.

I just would like to see some posturing from yourself to get back at those people voting for you, and to show them why there votes should be elsewhere. Something we have been seeing lack of.

More telling KT to OMGUS. Like what? Seriously take a stance on him.

See above. I would actually like to see his defence to those posters who voted for him.

I can't take a stance on someone with an attitude that spells defeated. I've seen that attitude in both alignments, and I'm not going to go policy lynch someone because they simply can't or won't defend themselves with a better case.

Whatever. I don't want to deal with this atm. Maybe I'll get back to this game later, I'm still sick to my stomach over the way I was treated here. It may be acceptable to y'all, but that qualifies as an invasion of privacy in my book. I have no problem with what aneninen said, I do have a problem with the way he said it.

Could you point out this post that has made you feel this way, because as far as I can see, I don't see any posts that causes offence.

To pretend to understand me like that after playing that game the way he did.... And then defending him with that BS when the whole time you were agreeing with me- I hate the attacks made against me. Perhaps you guys are different from me and offended by different things, but that doesn't excuse attacking me for being offended by something like that- and I didn't ask much from him, just that he watchs his word choice. But instead of staying out of it you had to get into it. It isn't even really a game related topic and you defended him. My mind is still racing with why.

It would help if you could actually point out who this is aimed at.

And if anything, it gives me a town impression to anyone who doesn't watch what they say, because at the end of the day, scum are more likely to watch there word choice, or how they type there sentences, as opposed to someone who spell checks, thorough checks there posts to make sure they don't give anything alignment wise away. But that could just be me, because I know many times when I've played as scum, doesn't matter what style of posting I'm making I will read over and watch what I say in case I slip.

This is also a game, whatever is said, should not be taken to heart. People are going to gain an opinion on everything that is said in the thread, they can choose whether to get involved or not. I've only gotten involved in the whole thing by your earlier stance on over reactions, and how you've reacted to what ever this post that has offended you, something that you tried to imply before that was over reacting.

I'm sorry I really don't want to play after that BS. I could sit here and take apart every piece of that pile of horse waste of an argument that was used against me but I doubt I could get through your dense skull with a jackhammer, so I'm not even going to try. I need more space for the time being and if you push me I will either claim or replace out.

Seriously, I think your actions by coming into to something that doesn't really affect you was drastically and horrifyingly inappropriate.

See, I don't know what to make of this. Why have this attitude?

I've seen many players in my time playing mafia, have the wrong type of emotion. And it's not good, because at the end of the day, this just a game, if it gets heated, step away and come back when you've calmed down. By taking this stance in your post, it takes away from the game, yes some posts may offend, I've felt the same in a few games, but I've chosen to remain calm, and just fire back without resulting into taking things to heart.

I suppose everyone is different.

See my last game with aphix. Actually its an easy scum metastatic on this site to just tunnel people all game. I've seen it in a large majority of my games.

I've seen tunnelling from both alignments. I don't use that as an indicator.

I will trawl through my list of games and find one where that person tunnelled for a lot, and he was town.

Well we are finally seeing something from KT. Let's see how he progresses after this.

UNVOTE: EE

I asked how these two things were related and I didn't get an answer so I'm going to extrapolate a bit here and say you think kt is scummier than I am and expect to be voting him soon. I think this is scummy if that's the case.

Where did you ask those two things were related? I might have missed that, I apologise.

I don't think KT is scummier than you, I've prodded sticks, interacted with KT, but I think it's more newbness in KT, than scummy. What you've done that made me vote you is a lot more scummier than KT.

2. I do think Eagle is not a good lynch D1. I think this is a noobtown mislynch in the waiting and I will not touch it. I ask the rest of you to do the same. Good choices would be Burning Crystal or Persivul. (More info on this coming).

When will the more info come?

Current preferred lynches would be Smudger/Anen/Mad King. There are others I could compromise on, and others i'd be less enthusiastic to. I won't go into my town reads right now.

Where did those name come from?

@aneninen. Not mad at you. I wasn't even that messed up until acryon got into it.

Let's just say I have emotional issues that I need to deal with and I apologize for them leaking into the thread. I try to stop myself when I recognize I'm blowing things that don't matter at all into mountains, it's just hard to take a break and calm down when you have... ...things... Like acryon jumping in on things and just riling people up more.

Then let's leave this story where it belongs to. In the past.

Not that this has anything to do with the game, but how do you (or anyone else) have a flu for a day?

Fzzzzzzzrt.
(1) It might have meant the worst day of flu.
(2) Some people can have flu quickly and dreadfully. It lasts for only a couple of days, 2 or so, but those days are horrible.

I'm actually in agreement. Some people look better than others, but all of them have a good poker reads. (There are obviously some that are quicker to emotion, but it's striking me more-so as newbish)
The question I have for you is that if you're not really into voting anyone, what's with your vote on Ameninen?

They may have left it there from RVS. Actually I left my vote there from RVS, because I'm another player who simply can't find too much useful content.
I mean, most of the things happening have been about a couple of players, whereas apart from those things... nothing.

OK. I'm all caught up. There are more irrelevant posts in this thread than there are actually relevant ones. If I disregard the posts that are irritating in an irrelevant-to-game way I'd say Persy is the one standing out as a slight scum lean.

However, I need to sort out RC first. I haven't had the pleasure of meeting Rasko before, so I would certainly appreciate it if you guys signed your posts for me to tell who's actually doing the post.

Why is it more urgent to sort RC out first than anyone else?

You're putting us in a bad position here. I don't want to see someone get RL pissed off over this, but I've posted similar stuff in the past, and only when I was scum. It was partially true and partially strategic. When I'm town and I think I'm misunderstood or treated badly, I don't threaten to replace out, because I'm satisfied that my lynch is going to give town good info, and particularly on D1 when there's usually a mislynch anyway. All I see from you is concern about your personal survival. I don't see concern for town. Some people do get overly concerned with personal survival as town, but in general it's more often a scum trait, because scum have smaller teams and the loss of one has much greater impact than loss of a single town.

Erm... I can't explain it, why, but this is scum.
I often do such kind of appeasing posts or what-should-I-call-them, both as town as scum, and even if it can't be noticed (or at least, it has not been yet), I know my town-calm-down posts are different to my scum-calm-down posts.
I know it's weak but right now, better than nothing.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Persivul

You're ruining this game. It's no fun if someone is actually upset about it IRL.

mod, please replace me

Shyt.
UNVOTE:
I simply can't imagine a scum replacing out in this very situation.

________

Frankly, everyone!
Can't we just play? Like in all the other games?
Pisskop deserves a better playlist than we are, including me.

And I f-cking don't care if you think that's my scum-appeasing post, actually it's not, but even my lynch would be more contribution to this game than everything has happened so far.
Actually Persivul was posting something similar, wasn't he? And he got a scumread from me.
Good.
I'm an idiot.

*hitting a tin bucket with a rusty hammer, which sounds terribly*

I'm also interested in why the vote, then quote his wanting replacing post to unvote.

I've not participated with you in a game where you are scum, so I have zero idea what your like as scum.

So... He wants to scum read people but he hasn't played with them before so he's going to keep playing it safe as he's been playing it all game long?

I've played a few times with Aneninen. And everytime he's been town, so I've not actually seen his scum game.

Is your scum read on them based on lurking/absence?

He quite specifically said that vote was to pressure them into hoping that he would come out and post.

I've done it before as scum, where I've delayed things by saying soon. It's one of those post words that you hope will appease the crowd and hope they forget about you.

That's true enough. I guess I could see someone replacing in without reading the game beforehand and realizing they were in over their heads or getting a role they didn't want, but I always read the thread beforehand because I only get town slots when I replace.

Parts of this is wrong.

How would someone replacing in not be happy that they didn't get a role they didn't want? I understand the semantics of it, but I can't see someone replacing in hoping to get a role they want. It never works like that, even signing up for a game doesn't get them a role they want.

The first part : yes, but also real life too. Like there are people who are quite a bit scummier than this and this is one thing that is (according to occams razer) more likely to come from not alignment indicative than scum.

The second part of this post: yes doing that may not necessarily be right, but saying what I'm saying is wrong is wrong and I have no idea why you would accuse me of lying about that. :/

I said parts of it is wrong, that doesn't say I said you are lying.

You are trying to twist words around.

If I said you were lying, I would not be using the words wrong. Using the word wrong means I'm disagreeing with some of your posts.

My Anen read is based on not liking a handful of his comments combined with a healthy dose of meta. Things like voting and unvoting Pers in #261 i'm not really buying, just looks to me like he's trying to fake stream of consciousness. I don't have a scum meta on Anen but I do have a good amount of town, and his play here is very different to what I was expecting from town-Anen..So it follows that this is more likely to be his scum play. Certainly good enough for me to support for D1.

Your logic is wrong, but whatever.

Actually that vote/unvote was the result of my catching-up method. I saw Percivul's post which I found scummy and I saw him replacing out

after

I hit the Preview and I added that part next.
Obviously, I know it's only my words but that's all I can tell.

This part above goes for everyone.

So you added that part after seeing it after you hit the preview button? Why not just delete it and not say anything about it?

I understand people voting then seeing a post further if they just hit the quote button, and replying as they are catching up, instead of hitting Q+ and adding them to one big post.

But you actually saw the post in the preview before you even posted it, I don't understand that.

I'm not using this to paint you as scum, but that just doesn't make any sense. I don't know whether to place that into; you are trying to appear that you are keeping up; or in putting your thoughts out and making people see that you are actually thinking out loud in the thread.

So youre not saying he's lying scum who needs to die, but you think he's lying scum that needs to die? Could you please play a little more carefully and push a little less? I like it when people sit on the fence and try not to stick out.

I've not said he needs to die. I've not voted for him purely based on that, I questioned the motive to that post, and gave two possible suggestions. Suggestions that aren't painting him as scum yet.

Like from here it looks like you're trying to push over a bunch of rocks that are already on their side. I.e. you're not doing much. I like you and acryon for town but I haven't seen you seem to try to get anywhere

This post reeks of trying to buddy.

They are pushing you, so in aid to appease, try buddy them up in hope that they may change there stance towards you. Hmm.

Extrapolated Eagle, who do you actually suspect at this point, or think is worthy for a lynch?

What on earth? How is that buddying? I'm calling them out for nowhere pushes. How is that buddying? If you want buddying go back and look at your interactions with kT

You like Burning Crystal and Acryon as town.

The Buddy point that I pointed out, you just happened to say those two names, because both have suspected you, or still do at that point of you posting, and say you like them for town. That is what makes me suspect you are trying to buddy them up, in hope to get them off your back.

I've seen scum buddy people who suspect them.

VOTE: Sunset Illusions

It's been 1 day 18 hours. I think almost 2 days is way over board for a post coming soon.

Question one; This is a question asking for others to provide reads, if he has read the thread, does he not have any reads of his own?

Question two; What has given him this impression, I think this is trying to either veer away from that possible lynch to distance oneself, I would like to see this more info for a case on Burning crystal or the Persivul slot.

Question three; What kind of question is that, seriously? It'll be the same answer it is for everyone on here.

this is a nasty read and a nasty push.

So yeah. I think kop is is probably scum.
VOTE: kop

Not a nasty push. Question one phrase I've seen scum do that. Question two, I've also seen scum do that.

Is that a nasty push considering I've seen scum do it? Nope, I can push what I think and experienced before.

I spoilered it

[Kop]

@kop
3. Voting is a stance regardless of whether or not you're reacting to it. You can read into why he's voting and such by reading context on the vote.

I'm not misrepping you by saying votes mean something, I'm not pretending to rep you there at all. I'm saying what you were saying was wrong. Misrepping is what you just did with me, taking my words and presenting them as if I was misrepping you when I wasn't.
4. That's not aggression in the scope of the game, you're literally taking passive aggressive behavior and calling it aggression. It is, I guess, aggression, but not really in the sense that I wasn't pushing for reads, etc. I wasn't being aggressive as far getting people lynched. I was reacting, flailing, at an attack made against me. This is borderline misrepping because as far as the game was concerned, I wasn't being aggressive at all.
And you did avoid KT here who HAS been more aggressive than me at least at the start of the game and he was aggressive in terms of the game.
5. Yes. I would like you to vote kt because then there wouldn't be a huge inconsistency between the words you say and the things you Do. You time and time again brought up points on which he was suspicious and then backed off at the end of the post. And since KT is one of the big players you've been focused on all game, your interaction with him is super important as far as reading.
6. Playstyle coaching is what I and several other players have done. Reaction coaching is what you did there. Play style coaching isn't alignment indicative, it's an attempt to help someone get better. Reaction coaching is hinting at how you think said player should react so that they will do the right thing in the right place. THAT IS alignment indicative because it helps the alignment of the player you alter the content of.

The post I quoted there is super scummy because you literally suspect him but instead of pushing him you ask him to turn on his wagon.
7. Yep. You wanted him to attack his wagon. The words you used were dismantle, but that can mean more than one thing. You didn't say dismantle the arguments against him. You said dismantle the wagon. Either way you want him to turn on them.
8. That's not a policy lynch. A policy lynch is lynching someone for a less than town play. But it's good to know that all I have to do to avoid getting pushed by you is stop defending myself.
11. No. People do replace in for those reasons expecting something and don't get what they want so they don't play. You can't say that's wrong, because it's not. It happens. I don't get what you don't get here.
12. You voted him but you're not trying to paint him as scum? K?
13. Yes. But suspecting that I would try to buddy and me actually buddying people are TWO COMPLETELY different things. I didn't buddy them there and its misrepping to say I did.
14. It's a scummy push because you already said you won't push someone who can't defend themselves and yet here you are voting a freaking LURKER of all things. I'm sorry? I've seen town do it to. It's kind of like the tunneling point. You seem to use the logic most beneficial to you at the time of posting. That's a scum thing to do.

3. You can clearly see me saying voting does indeed do something. I'm not sure what you keep rehashing this phrase all the time, when I've already said voting does do something. I just don't agree with the nature of the votes that you brought up in your first post against me. Naked votes almost in RVS, don't do as much pressuring than when under suspicion vote.

I've had numerous votes on me during RVS, but I've ignored them and they've never hardlies come back up later in the game.

4. I've already said that you totally flew of the handle, at something small. It was a complete over reaction, something you apologised for and said forget about it. I understand your a player that doesn't take much to light a spark and your off, but that aggression is channelled in the wrong way. You and only you can understand your own aggression, and you can try portray it differently when it's brought to you, but sitting here, I see it differently, as I don't know you well enough to know what you class as aggression.

5. So your saying if I vote KT, it changes the whole argument you have on that aspect then? I agree it maintains it's connection for later on in the game, with the whole interaction part, but your basically telling me to vote for him, then when it comes to a head later in the game, you can paint a picture, using these phrases.

Am I missing something, but your painting something huge, it's as if you know something is going to come off this? Or am I reading this whole thing incorrectly?

6. Reaction coaching, I'm simply trying to take away the defeatist attitude. It would be something I would be doing, and many others.

You telling me this Eagle, if 4 people for example voted for you, you would simply shy away from them and admit defeat? Or would you...(I think I already know the answer to this, it's been proven) would you retaliate against the people going against you?

I'm trying to simply get him to react in the manner that I suggested, so that he could interact against his wagon, get some work put in the thread so if he is lynched and see the flip, we can have more information to work from. By having the defeatist attitude, we only see interactions, not who he's pressed, or avoided on that wagon, or who's the opportunistic one. If your an experienced pro that you try make out, then you should know if he does flip scum, who's he faked argued with or possibly avoided, if he flips town, who's tried to jump on it.

7. See point 6.

8. Policy lynch isn't something I like to have, yes when there is nothing else to go on, and there can be info gained from it. But policy lynching someone for the sake of a lynch isn't something I like. Basing a lynch on a person who may not be good player, isn't something I'd agree with.

11. I think we should agree to disagree, we both have our opinions on the matter. You think I'm wrong, I think your wrong, on parts of it. We're not going to find some moral ground on this matter.

12. I mistakenly said voted for him, I didn't vote for him.

13. It appeared to me that you attempted to buddy. I can only see what's in front of me. It's not misrepping at all, if I see it, I'm just calling what I see.

[Kop]

VOTE: Kop

1. Ineffective pushes on new people and flakes
2. Eagle's case was pretty good
3. Quote wall defense when Eagle started making points on him
4. Not paying attention to most of the player list

I've not flaked at all at these pushes. You pushed and voted for KT, but that was more opportunistic, and you were called on it. Now that it appears the attention has shifted from KT, you are now trying to latch onto another flow where it's trying to go.

If Eagles case was good enough, why has nobody else picked on it and went with it? I mean, if a case was good enough, other players would see that and actually followed him, wouldn't you think?

Well of course I'm going to return the favour by the means of a defence, I could have chose to ignore it, but why should I, I've got nothing to hide.

[Kop]

Sorry for inactivity, I've had quite a hectic weekend.

[Kop]

I see that my "pay attention" vote was paid attention to.
UNVOTE:

Spoiler: longquote

VOTE: Anenien

Where did this come from?

I could but my obvtown reads are pushing Anenenien. Tex is not likely to give us reaction, so he's more of a lynch if there's nothing better to do.
~Titus

Davesaz as obvtown?
You actually voted for him in 442. Dafuq.

Seriously, my scumreads aren't getting traction. I'm not explicitly townreading Anenien. We need wagons. Too many chefs spoils the broth.

Dave and acryon have been pretty townie lately and I see where a strong case can be made on Almost. I'm getting quite a few townreads. IF you want me to follow you, you'll need to convince me that either a) texcat is scum or b) you're townier.

Townies misreading players. Have you ever heard of this?

First, the hasty reaction with unplanned reaction fish plus Almost reaching out to immediately try to fix his blunders. Dave seems to be on the same page and trying to create wifom around who Almost should protect tonight. While they lack subtlety, the motivation is clearly townie.

Where did Davesaz post that?

7 posts apart, both signed as ~Titus, and I haven't posted in between. What's the deal here??

Good one, Almost!

Context Almost.
I was meaning a strong TOWN case can be made on you. The second paragraph in the second post is talking about how townie you are.
I don't care what you accept as a slot RC. I am nullreading Texcat. No amount of whining and bitching will change that. You aren't having a valid push on Texcat. You are refusing to provide a reason for your push at all.
~Titus

Okay.
But.
Townreading Almost doesn't make you town.
As for TexCat.
I've seen her mislynched on Day1. She has a gamestyle which, somehow, acts as a mislynch magnet. Therefore, I'm not sold on the case against her. However, it's possible that Burning Crystal's either protecting or Whiteknighting her.

VOTE: Texcat
Now

That's what I wanted

.
I will ride this out and see where it goes for awhile if you're willing.
*peace offering*
~Titus

What did you want?
What's that *peace offering* pigeon poop?

It looks like you're just pissed I am trying to bury the hatchet with someone I am scumreading.

It is to you.
Can you walk me through why are you are scumreading us?

Bad phrasing. I meant to say I am used to scumreading.
I had solid town reads on your wagon. If I was scumreading you, I wouldn't be trying so hard to bury the hatchet. I would just vote you.
~Titus

Even if I'm an ESL player, mixing up "I am scumreading" and "I am used to scumreading" is not a thing I can buy. Using that expression for a ...hydra slot?

Eh. I'm not good with words. Sorry, Titus. Friends?

What sort of puppet show is going on?!
I thought this game is about scumhunting, not friendmaking.

Let's test Texcat v Anen v MKA and see who jumps where. Pick one?

How to Manipulate Players, Chapter 4.

I'm ok with this one
VOTE: texcat

Dafuq.
Now I'm almost sure TexCat is a planned mislynch. I know if her wagon reaches lynch, I'll look terrible, but f-cking don't care. Gain is bigger than loss in that case.

VOTE: Burning Crystal
Because slowly but firmly, they are getting in control to manipulate the whole town.
Maybe one of the earlier major wagons were on their partner, but we can check that later if I'm right. Some other "reads" of them are Whiteknighting, I guess.

This time, I'm not going to get blinded by thinking that someone who comes around to me easily is town.
Comparing Aneninen who is willing to let me live but still uncertain about my alignment to Burning Crystal who is willing to call me obvtown after I say the bodyguard needs to live, I'm more inclined to trust Aneninen. I'm also quite worried about BC's horse trading. It's almost like they're talking up a compromise in thread so as to appear like it isn't coordinated off thread, but I have seen Titus plan a manipulation and this looks similar.

VOTE: Burning Crystal

Note: I have said this in other games and will repeat it here. Being west coast US, I often have to go "last" in the posting order. This means that others, especially those in Europe and east coast US, get to see and respond to a lot of posts while I am sleeping. Coming to the same conclusion can be sheeping, but often it is merely seeing the same thing as much as 8 hours later. End PSA.

I'm willing to go down this route.

I can't say I was happy with the peace offering, that's not what this game should be about. The whole scenario between herself and MKA doesn't feel right. It feels like she's trying to form a block of some sort.

VOTE: Burning Crystal

@Burning Crystal

[Kop]

How or why is KT a good lynch?

[Kop]

As far as I can see in your ISO, you were pushing KT a little bit early game, but then veered away from it. You haven't pushed the case hard enough or interacted with him a great deal to convince others that KT is a good lynch, or got them to agree with you. Similarly I've done the same thing and not pushed a case as hard as I should have, but to be honest, saying KT will be a good lynch, but nobody is agreeing, is all because you may or may not have provided a case for people to go on.

There's one thing saying it, there's another thing doing it.

[Kop]

@Chilled Tea

Could you care to elaborate more on your scum read of me, because the way I posted doesn't give me much of a mean to defend my self too.


[Quote=Chilled Tea]I get townie vibes from Kuroi but he could be a very good scum player, regardless I see no reason at the moment to go for his lynch.[/quote]

You get town vibes, but could be a very good scum player. Is this a fence sitting read? I'm not sure what your trying to achieve with this comment.

[Quote=Chilled Tea]The next best is burning crystal. This is because of the fact that largely she was very difficult to read through the thread, and at the end she changed her mind very quickly during the convo with MKA. I don't like that.[/quote]

Something we agree on.

Burning Crystal is the best option for this day. I don't like this peace keeping offering offer. Yeah (titus head) may have jumped on RC of MKA regularly in the past, but you can't shy away from it in a game where you feel that there is traction, because of previous games. Whatever has happened in previous games, you are following your reads at the end of the day and playing a game.

Is it your fault that he could be giving you a reason to push it? Or something you sense is wrong, you aren't going to push it further? I'm not sure what Titus is trying to achieve, the hachet should be buried after the game is finished, not during another one where she could be possibly correctly guessing her reads. I understand the motive, but not during the process of a game.

She has turned away from the whole thing too softly for my liking.

[Kop]

@Chilled Tea

Could you care to elaborate more on your scum read of me, because the way I posted doesn't give me much of a mean to defend my self too.

I get townie vibes from Kuroi but he could be a very good scum player, regardless I see no reason at the moment to go for his lynch.

You get town vibes, but could be a very good scum player. Is this a fence sitting read? I'm not sure what your trying to achieve with this comment.

The next best is burning crystal. This is because of the fact that largely she was very difficult to read through the thread, and at the end she changed her mind very quickly during the convo with MKA. I don't like that.

Something we agree on.

Burning Crystal is the best option for this day. I don't like this peace keeping offering offer. Yeah (titus head) may have jumped on RC of MKA regularly in the past, but you can't shy away from it in a game where you feel that there is traction, because of previous games. Whatever has happened in previous games, you are following your reads at the end of the day and playing a game.

Is it your fault that he could be giving you a reason to push it? Or something you sense is wrong, you aren't going to push it further? I'm not sure what Titus is trying to achieve, the hachet should be buried after the game is finished, not during another one where she could be possibly correctly guessing her reads. I understand the motive, but not during the process of a game.

She has turned away from the whole thing too softly for my liking.

Fixed quote tags.

[Kop]

@Chilled Tea

Could you care to elaborate more on your scum read of me, because the way I posted doesn't give me much of a mean to defend my self too.

I agree that my post was a bit vague regarding you. It is regarding some stuff that happened some time back, and eagle made a case on you.

I got the feeling that he was right. It felt a lot like your posts were empty, some advice to KTepes, to eagle, some possibility regarding theories. To put it simply it didn't feel like as if your contribution to this game is something more than common sense. I am fairly certain that you were also on the wagon on KTepes early on, and to me that feels a bit scummy. That is also the reason for my distrust in dave. Like aneninen put it, "going for the low hanging fruit".

I don't think I've ever voted KT, I was suspicious off him, but I've suspected people who have played in the same manner, and it's become an distraction because those have always flipped town. I'd not lynch him for the way he is playing, unless he gives off a tell that he is scum.

There are much better options right now, over KT.

[Kop]

I could but my obvtown reads are pushing Anenenien. Tex is not likely to give us reaction, so he's more of a lynch if there's nothing better to do.

~Titus

So your obvious town reads are pushing a scum read, so that makes you inclined to follow?

And tex is a policy lynch for you if there's nothing better to do?

The judgement that I'm getting from this post, is that Titus does not want to push Texcat, when someone asked her what was her read on Texcat.

[Kop]

As far as kuroi is concerned, I have, for the most part in the game considered him town and he has given me little reason to consider him otherwise. But some people are mentioning that he plays differently according to his meta if he is town, and that was the reason why I said that he could be a really good scum player.

Fair enough. I just felt from that comment, you were withholding a stance, towards that slot.

I've said similar things to that in previous games when I've been scum, when trying to give reads out without really asserting myself to give the impression that I know too much.

I'd like either Burning Crystal, or a Texcat lynch in this scenario. Because there are posts in them slots that I don't agree with, or screams town to me.

[Kop]

@Chilled Tea

Could you care to elaborate more on your scum read of me, because the way I posted doesn't give me much of a mean to defend my self too.

I agree that my post was a bit vague regarding you. It is regarding some stuff that happened some time back, and eagle made a case on you.

I got the feeling that he was right. It felt a lot like your posts were empty, some advice to KTepes, to eagle, some possibility regarding theories. To put it simply it didn't feel like as if your contribution to this game is something more than common sense. I am fairly certain that you were also on the wagon on KTepes early on, and to me that feels a bit scummy. That is also the reason for my distrust in dave. Like aneninen put it, "going for the low hanging fruit".

I don't think I've ever voted KT, I was suspicious off him, but I've suspected people who have played in the same manner, and it's become an distraction because those have always flipped town. I'd not lynch him for the way he is playing, unless he gives off a tell that he is scum.

There are much better options right now, over KT.

Actually, the fact that you weren't voting for KT but pushing for him, is exactly what irked eagle. And I agree with him on this case. There was no fear of lynching KT at that point. So voting him/not voting him didn't really matter.
Like I said, it felt like you were trying to manipulate the town into starting the wagon while looking innocent in the process. I am not sure how to put it. I still think you are scum.

I was pushing him to try get him to open up more, to play the game and actually post with people, rather than explaining himself several times on how he likes to play. It's quite hard to get reads, when someone becomes a distraction because they are playing in a manner where they start playing with ATE. I've already specifically KT isn't going to become a policy lynch because of there game style.

[Kop]

Allright. I have somewhat completely read throught the thread to the best of my capability.

I believe that Kop would be the best person to lynch today. He is my biggest scumread but only because of the way he posted.

Here are some of my scum games.

Open 621
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=64668

Open 614
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=63821

Blitz 6
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=111&t=64249

You can go through them, and tell me how my posting is different here in this game, to those games.

[Kop]

The following is my stream of consciousness read-through post.

OK, I double checked to verify the result. I'm convinced you ARE a WW, but also a 3 Mafia (GF + 2Goons) would know there's no PGO.
Either way:

VOTE: Mad King Ashnard

Oh goodness...

Ok, someone please explain why we are WW hunting? I am tired and half brain dead.

~Titus

We aren't. Almost50 is almost out of his mind.

I think Almost is actually just really really bad.

I mean I know Almost is just really really bad but I think this is an instance of him being bad rather than scum.

Davesaz is scummier.

Ugh I am worried this might be the case. So many of my games have me torn on people who are just town playing very badly.

Spoiler:

This is why we should restrict fake claims to scum. How are we supposed to sort out whether this is the worst fake claim ever from a townie or a scum claim? Did you consider that you were much more likely to catch a town pr than a werewolf with this claim?

OK. It looks like most of you don't know me well enough, so I did mess it up. But since this is the case there is nothing more I could do wrong, so here it is:

The ONLY PR that could've been outed here would be the PGO themselves. I'm a Weak Bodygaurd. We thus are in scenarios 5, 10 or 12. ALL 12 scenarios have Jailers and Cops, so these would not be outed by my false claim. Furthermore, I know we don't have a Tracker, a BulletProof or a Vig.

I considered claiming a Vig, a Fruit Vendor, a BP & a PGO (note that I didn't specify whether I'm 1 or 2 shots in my clain). This was to take the SK from the picture (SK would know 1-shot PGO doesn't exist but a 2-shot may do).

Now combine the knowledge I had with my chances of survival.

My chances of dying are: 4/12 (targeting a scum randomly) + 2*1/8 (my protected target being targeted for a night kill by either faction) + 2*1/9 (me being targeted for a night kill myself).= 70 % (actually 69.444 %).

So, do I go down silently or do I go down leaving "some" pointers?? I chose the latter. If I'm only 30.56% likely to see the next day I would rather leave you guys with some better knowledge about the setup and who the more likely suspects to flip scum are.

Now lynch away if you will. I've had it with people suspecting me just because I think differently. "More likely to come from scum" is a horrible reason all in and by itself, simply because scum do NOT want or need to (a) put themselves in the spot light, and (b) do as much speculation about the setup this early. The night kills will give them what they need to know.

The spoiler above is just horrible. Any WW would just sit quietly and pretend your claim was real, knowing it wasn't. Why in the world would a WW ever call you out based on your claim not matching the setup?

At this point I am feeling bad-town for Almost and scum for Dave. His post re: not killing the bodyguard reads very bad.

Well to be fair, WW coming out countering it, is scum claiming the set up wasn't matching.

That's strikingly worrying that he'd call it down that route, but important points to remember. If Almost flips scum further down the game, then surely that would put Dave in a bad light?

[Kop]

@acyron, Dave was softing

before

the Almost wagon had traction. I think that's fueling a lot of people misreading Dave (especially Xtoxm). If Dave was softing PR only

after

Almost claimed BG it would be a problem as it would look like scum seeking survival. I get the suspicion thrown Dave's way but it's bad. I feel awkward defending Dave so hard because he doesn't want it. Maybe some of the push on Dave is Wifom protection, but since a good chunk of the game is scumreading me now, I can defend Dave without him being obvtown which he doesn't want and Dave being obvtown is bad. Xtoxm is making a mistake that how he feels is somehow objective when looking at only half the picture. #frustrating

I would totally vote Kurio. I know my support might not mean much given the current mentality against me. I have always felt the dynamic between him and MKA was wierd and I hate his lurking when we should be trying to throw together. I think MKA and I would both be ok with that. They have virtually no interaction and K has been following MKA like a lost puppy and obvtown reading him. Being scum in this scenario, the perfect play is to drop something a little scummy and leave. Lurk shit out. The other scum (SK or other team) would be much less likely to shoot you.

As for Kop, I am not as big a fan of a lynch there. As opportunistic as his posts are, I think it's town opportunism. People jump down my throat for being a decent human being and cooperating with people all the fucking time. I used to have an expression (if Titus is wagoned D1, she's usually town). That's frustrating as fuck about things but I cannot necessarily say the timing alone is scummy of Kop.

VOTE: Kurio

I will most likely join you in a moment on Kuro, but want to sort this first. Would you mind pointing me to Dave's softing prior to the BG claim? I don't know how but I read through and missed it still.

Why would you want a softing obvious to everyone?

I've read about this softing, but missed it. I'm not wanting to draw attention to it, because that's scummy in my eyes.

[Kop]

Acyron, I would rather not as Dave was softing his full role, not just being a PR generally. It would probably be more protown to lynch us than to have me out Dave's role.

~Titus

I thought maybe this was just common knowledge that I was somehow missing, but if what you said is the case, then let's not discuss that anymore.

That being said I'm sure you'll understand my unwillingness to trust your vouch for him unless I see it myself. Still fine with leaving him for today, but taking a closer look tomorrow.

I've got ideas about the whole thing, but I'd rather not go into detail right now. If I'm thinking the same process (possibility) then other people may also be.

[Kop]

Reread Dave's ISO supposing Dave is the furthest thing from arrogant. That's as close as I can get you.

~Titus

How are you reading MKA?

Is this peace keep offering still in existence?

Reading through the whole of that wall post, you are hinting that you are suspicious of MKA and Kuroi, or is that peace offering only related to the RadiantCowbells part of that hydra?

[Kop]

Reading through the ISO of Kuroi.

#1 - votes MKA, and insists on wanting to know who is who, or his vote stays. This doesn't tell me anything, it's an RVS vote and he wants to know who he's against. I'm assuming he knows you Burning Crystal, or one of you's?

#23 - Confused towards who is in hyrda, tbf to him, I would be the same if the player saying one thing, the mod saying another.

#28 - I think he's trying to figure out how to be afraid. I don't see a point to this because there really isn't a definitive answer to that. People are different in many ways, some are afraid, some aren't. If there afraid, it isn't alignment indicative.

#32 - He's going to have an easier time with Rask, and a harder time with RC. Well judging so far after this point, I don't think I've seen the same level from RC. Rask I've never played with, so don't know what level of player he is.

#51 - He sees emotion that isn't good for the game.

I'm not going to go through every single one, because a lot of it is fluff. Let's get to the teal deal.

#82 - He obviously knows Xtom, it's bad play for the naked votes. Ok. I think I touched upon this, but EE tried to turn this around on me, when I questioned these naked votes. It's bad town play I agree.

#110 - He states that he wanted to vote for EE decided against it due to him not knowing him outside of the game , but the quick wagon worried him.

Now that for me is town points because as scum, they would ideally like a wagon to form, no matter how quick it forms. And if there is a genuine reason why that wagon forms, then Kuroi wouldn't have much of a reason not to jump on. However there is a slight balance that I have seen on some occasions, is scum often try to keep one or two off, with one of them questioning it. But the nature of Kuroi, doesn't give me that vibe, he didn't question it, he didn't want to be on it, due to the quickness of the wagon forming. A quick wagon, with no resistance does strike as town.

#205 - Change of playstyle agreement. He's now null reading EE.

#253 - I can agree with his sentiment towards KT. There's playing aggressively, then there's appealing to emotion. KT has blended both aggression and ATE together, and well, it gives me a player that is harder to read. I can't town read or scum read him based on that. And I don't want to get it to a point where it becomes a policy lynch, to prove what his alignment he is. I'm undecided until I see more.

He goes onto say some people look better than others, and is in agreement with MKA about no vote is good at this point.

#304 - not getting that huge, "LYNCH HIM" itch. It's a shame, because it's harder for me to decide where to start scum hunting.

I don't know where to start with this. Up until this point, he hasn't done anything noteworthy to give him that read. He's not really prodded any sticks to get reactions, or asked a question that is worthy to get an answer to get a read. It took up to post #381 to post some in depth conversation and post his reads. But then, to counter balance my comment, there has been some over the top reaction posts, that doesn't help, that has subdued some actual content being discussed.

#313 - You said that SI post was a blending in one. Now texcat has taken over, albeit still that slot is inactive, have you read Texcat, and got an opinion yet?

#322 - I can agree with this post.

#354 - Echoeing thoughts, so people can hear. I'm not sure what this is all in aid off.

#494/#507/#525 - All related to almost50.

Does your read still say scum in relation to Almost50? I think your vote is still there?

Have your reads changed from #381?

[Kop]

My read on kuroi this game has consisted of "if he was scum he would be better than this right?"

Have you seen a scum game from Kuroi?

[Kop]

I believe that Kop would be the best person to lynch today. He is my biggest scumread but only because of the way he posted. Some people who I consider town (Anenien, etc) believe he is town because of some posts in which he advises my previous slot owner. Unfortunately I don't consider advice as a town read.

Have you ever seen scum-Kop?

No, I haven't.

Texcat is also good choice in my opinion, I don't agree with anenien that there is some planned wagon on her.

Why is she scummy?

By the way, Chilled may be town.

I will answer this a bit later

Like I said, it felt like you were trying to manipulate the town into starting the wagon while looking innocent in the process. I am not sure how to put it. I still think you are scum.

Is that one still a tell?

To me it is. You don't think so? Personally I am not a big fan of "X plays in

this

manner when scum ; he isn't playing in

this

manner. Hence, he is town." logic.

I believe I've gave you a link to that game, along with some of my other scum games.

[Kop]

We're town yo.

I've only been mislynched on D1 once before. And that involved both BBT and Lilith.

Don't be the second.

To be fair, anybody and everybody can use that defence. It doesn't hold water. I've been mislynched many a time, I don't use that as a defence to votes being put on me.

[Kop]

I've said similar things to that in previous games when I've been scum, when trying to give reads out without really asserting myself to give the impression that I know too much.

Did you mean Zar's?

Possibly. I have done it a few times as scum, but not 100% sure if it was on this site.

My read on kuroi this game has consisted of "if he was scum he would be better than this right?"

Feels fake. Although I can't put my finger on anything definite.

Are you thinking along the lines of 'wants to provide a case, but can't find something suitable?'

I mean, that is one of those defensive comments where he can't come up with anything better and gone for a fail safe comment that can't really draw any attention too. Or can be read 'fence sitting'.

[Kop]

Two things:
1) Eagle isn't in the game anymore. You need to relax with a cup of chilled tea.
2) You're coming up with excuses now. If you had such a huge problem with my drunk post, you'd mention it at the time. No one did, except Eagle.
...and I never got that five bucks.

Eh, I've pushed someone for a drunk post that I thought felt fake in another game and it just turned into a big TvT wall-off, which I'd rather not do here. Made more sense for me to hold it until I had more to talk about re: you. Also please...the walls...

*Sigh* I keep refreshing and refreshing in hopes to find something useful, but all I see is chit-chat or wall quotes with one-liner comments. You people don't seem to agree on anything at all. No 3 players have the same #1 lynch priority, and it looks like we're bargaining with each other, yet not even close to being successful at that.

Are you part of the town or not? You have a part to play in convincing people and getting people to agree, which I haven't seen you really do, and then you expect to leave and have it just happen organically?

We're town yo.

I've only been mislynched on D1 once before. And that involved both BBT and Lilith.

Don't be the second.

It's fallacious to assert that you're not scum because you weren't scum in another game. As for the other points pointed to me, I'll get to it when work slows down later, but in short - I completely forgot to add in the votes since the last vote count. I take responsibility for that error.

Are you playing dumb here? Obviously no one would genuinely assert that, and that's certainly not what MKA is doing here.

We're town yo.

I've only been mislynched on D1 once before. And that involved both BBT and Lilith.

Don't be the second.

To be fair, anybody and everybody can use that defence. It doesn't hold water. I've been mislynched many a time, I don't use that as a defence to votes being put on me.

Are you also playing dumb? MKA clearly being snarky, not making a legitimate defense to be argued with.

Yeah I'm probably not thinking clearly in relevance to that post. My bad.

[Kop]

I'm presuming you were leaning town on that slot, purely down to Persivul, because Firestarter, didn't add anything. That whole perception to that slot is it's null right now, simply because even if you were town reading Persivul, could be undone by Ranger. Different players, different styles, different attributes etc etc.

Let's hear what Ranger has to say, before I think we should start reading that slot eh?

How do you read Burning Crystal as town? Is it because of the stance they took regarding your claim?

[Kop]

Probably. Scum!Titus would've seized the chance to make a push on town!me all the way. But that's not all. I get town vibes from their posts (both of them) and reactions to everything being said of/to them.

Is there not a slight chance Burning Crystal has taken this stance, to get town credit?

Who would be your preferred lynch?

[Kop]

Is there not a slight chance Burning Crystal has taken this stance, to get town credit?

Who would be your preferred lynch?

1- It's possible, but not very probable IMHO.
2- One of the 4 in my lynch pool. I'm currently on Mad King, but I'm really tempted to lynch KT now. The problem with KT is I don't know if I'm hating them "just" for scum or hating their posting style more which could be making them look even more scummy for me.

Also, I know myself that my early reads on the game are usually off especially when there have been lots of replacemnets, but this one mostly concerns the EE/chilled spot bc I'm scum reading them. It works FOR the Ranger slot, bc if I'm still reading them as town after the first replacement then they must've been really good bc I tend to suspect the replacement slots more.

Also, Fire Starter actually did provide a wall post of reads, and I don't see why scum!Fire would do that if they intended to sub-out. I mean, if you hated your slot and intended to leave, why would you go through the trouble of typing all this? I'd've suspected them a li'l bit more had they decided to stay.

Thanks for correcting me on firestarter, I actually forgot he had posted that wall post. It still stands though, he possibly at time didn't have any thought to sub out, we obviously won't know the reason why he left. I think I'm awaiting to see how Ranger takes over and what he does to influence the game.

It's not very probable, but there is a chance or possibility that could be the case. I've seen scum coaching (in PT), where they basically tell someone to defend a slot that a partner could be chasing, so that if it did backfire on them, it disconnects any possible connections left by the person doing the push. There is many different ways you could take the whole Burning Crystal stance towards you, could be opportunistic scum defending to get you on side, or general town telling the truth and seeing it for what it is.

[Kop]

Am I the only one who thinks that KT is an alt and is doing this on purpose??

No opinion on the alt vs new question.

No doubt that it's on purpose. Torn between "scum trying to skate by" vs. "alignment neutral attention seeker". I had that thought right from the very beginning and events since then have not done much to change it.

He was vocal at the beginning of the game, albeit not a good vocalist he proved, but now I'm slightly worried how much he is dropping out of the game, whilst people contribute to suspicions, then he pops in with posts non related to what's being discussed then disappearing again.

[Kop]

We should take our focus completely off the setup.

Let's agree on a lynch candidate, then we can discuss the possible setups up when we have flips to deal with, then we can be assured what we could possibly be dealing with.

[Kop]

If we're basing lynches around setup specifications, then we're onto a hiding to nothing. It feels more lynching on the basis of setups, than people being scummy.

It helps, but not day one. Once we have flips, we can base a lot of day one to the setup specifications which could give useful information.

[Kop]

Sorry, I was asleep all day yesterday, bad with chest pains. Catching up now.

[Kop]

@Aneninan

Your the first person on the Burning Crystal wagon. Since your vote, you've never really got involved a great deal with that wagon, or expanded more on the whole point to your vote on BC.

Has your opinion changed? Are you still happy with your vote there, because most of your posts that I've read, your basically asking questions to other slots, without going for the person your voting for. I don't know if it's just that your happy to see other people argue a case against BC, whilst you sit on the sidelines assessing the situation, or something else.

Some of your latest posts, don't fill me with anything, there is questions, there is fluff, and there's only so much I can gather from calling a case, pigeon poop to be honest.

Have your reads changed from #412 and #418?

[Kop]

VOTE: Texcat

I'm down with that.

If we can't get any further with this wagon, I propose a no lynch. We are walking into dangerous territory if we go from wagon to wagon and get them close to a lynch, before changing due to roleclaims etc.

[Kop]

NO LYNCH IS NOT A GOOD IDEA,, I READ ON THE MAFIAWIKI THAT IT WILL ALWAYS BE BAD FOR TOWN BECAUSE WE WILL GO INTO DAY 2 WITH NO NEW INFORMATION...!!! I DONT WANT TO VOTE FOR KUROI, SO I WILL RATHER VOTE TEXCAT OR BURNING CRYSTAL...

VOTE: TEXCAT

A no lynch doesn't give us any better information, but if it's a fail safe idea then it could be useful. We will have power roles that can gain us information without a lynch. We've already pressed a wagon on Burning Crystal, then moved to Kuroi, who then hinted at something, we tried to go to Aycron, and now we're onto Texcat. I've been in a few games where we no lynched day one, but still went onto win end game.

These are wagons I'm not opposing of, but I don't want us to press wagons from one to another this late on, due to forcing role claims, etc etc.

[Kop]

I DONT UNDERSTAND THAT LONG POST BUT THAT ALSO MAKES SENSE....... BUT DOESNT THAT MEAN MAFIA GET A FREE KILL AT NIGHT??

Who would you rather NO LYNCH than to lynch today, KOP??? I THINK IT IS BEST, if all ideas are CONSOLIDATED!!!!!!!!!!!

It gives mafia a free kill, but not a choice of which PR they would like to kill.

The point I'm making is, we run up a few wagons this late on, and get them close to a lynch, they roleclaim to try survive, we then move onto the next and the chain continues. We don't want too many PR's out in the open due to rushing around trying to get lynches sorted, especially on Day One.

A no lynch keeps PR's in the dark, mafia have to plan there work on guessing, and we lose one.

I'm in a strong frame of mind that we stick with Texcat now, or we no lynch. I'd have preferred a Burning Crystal lynch, but that one stalled, and we moved on from that case. Texcat isn't a bad option to go with.

[Kop]

Yeah they would likely go there, but that's all they have. If we run another wagon up and they claim a stronger PR than Jailkeeper then it's not rocket science where they'd go.

[Kop]

There will be more than one mafia most likely, but only one of them will do the kill. If jailkeeper gets lucky and jails the one doing the kill, then that will stop the kill.

[Kop]

Who do you think is a better place to vote then? You haven't really pushed much at all. Kop's no lynch comment is pretty scummy, I agree with Aneninen there. You also haven't tried to vote us at all, and I am the one counter wagon that might exist to you. Do you have strong town feels on us?

why are you saying your lynch won't bode well for town, as if you're not town?

Who do you think is scum and why?

How is it entirely scummy? A no lynch is surely better than either lynching a PR, or than getting a lot of claims out. We've had 1 hint at a role, and a role claim albeit VT one.

A no lynch doesn't hinder us a great deal than it's being made out. I've been in numerous games where a no lynch still won us the game, and didn't detriment the game the way it's made out.

[Kop]

As for TexCat

, I meant this game: Zar Show (C9++)

It's strange that neither Kop, nor Acryon has mentioned it. Both of them were there.

Going on soon.

I think meta generally does more harm than good, and I don't use it. I may use it as a tiebreaker in my own reads, but other than that I try to actively work against it.

I also hate Kop's no-lynch comment and would be game for a wagon on him if we could get it going. I like it better than a Tex one for sure.

Very well. I don't see the big problem with the whole point of not wanting scum to get more PR/VT role claims. Early day, yes, late day, no.

[Kop]

As for TexCat

, I meant this game: Zar Show (C9++)

It's strange that neither Kop, nor Acryon has mentioned it. Both of them were there.

Going on soon.

I think meta generally does more harm than good, and I don't use it. I may use it as a tiebreaker in my own reads, but other than that I try to actively work against it.

I also hate Kop's no-lynch comment and would be game for a wagon on him if we could get it going. I like it better than a Tex one for sure.

Very well. I don't see the big problem with the whole point of not wanting scum to get more PR/VT role claims. Early day, yes, late day, no.

Obviously we never want to out our PR's, but we have that same problem every day of the game. It doesn't go away if we no-lynch. All that does is give us less information as well as eliminates the potential use of a no-lynch later in the game strategically if town gets the option.

I was only proposing it for Day One, if we couldn't get far with the Texcat wagon. I'd rather a no lynch than drive another wagon up for another roleclaim, I just don't think we should be giving scum a running head start by having some PR's out in the open that they can cherry pick for the next few days.

[Kop]

So if Almost50 was telling the truth about being a weak bodyguard, then I'm assuming he won't defend a PR who claimed.

It's a case of who did he go for? Because then if he is telling the truth, then that would mean they are town, and the person who he BG, could clarify some truth to it.

(I didn't say or will think they are confirmed town because scum could easily form a partnership based on this).

[Kop]

VOTE: Acryon

Mobilepost.

I hate doing this but... what did I tell you about TexCat?

What is the whole point of this?

I failed to see why this question is directly aimed at Acryon, so please help me out here.

[Kop]

So if Almost50 was telling the truth about being a weak bodyguard, then I'm assuming he won't defend a PR who claimed.

It's a case of who did he go for? Because then if he is telling the truth, then that would mean they are town, and the person who he BG, could clarify some truth to it.

(I didn't say or will think they are confirmed town because scum could easily form a partnership based on this).

Why would he not defend a PR who claimed? If he is actually town, now he will just die tonight unless yet another PR comes out that he can protect, and neither of the two PRs will have had any utility.

I could be reading the whole role wrong, but if he bodyguard someone who is likely to be killed by scum, wouldn't that mean both of them dies? Similar to the hider role sort of?

[Kop]

How does 93 goad PRs?

It does not goad PR's into blatantly outing themselves, but it needlessly and uselessly discusses the setup which could lead PRs, especially inexperienced ones, to mention things that might make it easier to get who they are. The lines literally have no positive function, while there is chance for negatives.

But if Anen has the influence, he could easily direct PR's to Eagle based on his advice, by them just listening to it without discussing it not to out themselves, but if he knows there is a chance they are going to Eagle, it keeps them from potential team mates?

[Kop]

How does 93 goad PRs?

It does not goad PR's into blatantly outing themselves, but it needlessly and uselessly discusses the setup which could lead PRs, especially inexperienced ones, to mention things that might make it easier to get who they are. The lines literally have no positive function, while there is chance for negatives.

But if Anen has the influence, he could easily direct PR's to Eagle based on his advice, by them just listening to it without discussing it not to out themselves, but if he knows there is a chance they are going to Eagle, it keeps them from potential team mates?

How do you read the game at present?

Right now, we are looking at one scum team. That is what we should be basing our attention on.

We won't ever know who Kuroi jail kept, I will ISO his posts to see who he suspected the most, as that is possibly the likely chance of him jail-keeping. But that isn't definitive evidence if he is the person jailed.

Or even a secondary scum team.

I'm suspecting Anen right now, so I'd like to talk to him about his read on Acryon, he's had his vote on him pretty much up till the lynch, and now back on him again.

[Kop]

New Read List

Town: Kop
Lean Town: Aneninen, Xtoxm, Davesaz, KainTepes, Acryon
Null: Texcat, Chilledtea, Mad King Ashnard
Lean Scum: Firestarter
Scum: Burning Crystal, Almost50

That was his last list of his reads.

So in all likelihood, he's probably jail kept one of is scum reads; Burning Crystal, Almost50.

Burning Crystal wagon was around till last day before the lynch was met before it stalled. Why it stalled, there are probably many explanations.

1). Scum were on it, so couldn't hammer it home.
2). Town couldn't reach a basis of why it should happen
3). Majority couldn't agree on a base a case on

Doesn't say BC is entirely town or scum based on that.

It's likely true, but not 100% true.

Scum Dave team role blocks almost creates a false positive. That would be setups 5 and 12. I think Dave is obvtown but Almost town doesn't confirm Dave town.

This could lend a hand to the above case, with Almost50 being in the scum pile for Kuroi. So on that basis of Kuroi possibly jail-keeping Almost50, that would act as a roleblock to 50's role.

[Kop]

@Kop, you scum? A jailer suspicious of Almost50 still would likely not jail him. A weak bodyguard is a self resolving problem. Either Almost outs who he jailed every night and is role blocked constantly or he gives information by his survival.

@Aneninen, why are you wanting to assume two scumteams?

No, but if he died, surely we would be able to figure out, a possibility of where Almost went. By his reads throughout the game.

(Unrelated to this game - But I remember playing in a blitz game where the cop didn't out himself, but his reads were confirmation when he eventually died, is where he went.)

VOTE: Aneninen

[Kop]

I'm happy for this wagon to take off. His posts day one weren't exactly up to par with what I've seen from him, just strikes more like filler posts than anything else, calling most cases pidgeon poop, and his first post to 2nd day is strikingly off too. And not to mention his goading, trying to influence town into thinking something different to what's out there.

[Kop]

What can I say?

Still want BC dead, don't really feel the anen wagon. Honestly still reeling from the texcat flip, ordinarily I'd talk with RC though I haven't seen him on skype for like a week now. Could also settle for kop at this point.

It would also be handy to state why you would settle for me.

Sorry for inactivity, not been well at all this week.

[Kop]

I can see town BC doing everything they are accused of doing as scum in that case.

Like I get the feeling that lot of meta stuff is happening here - I have never played with either of the heads of BC before so it's just difficult for me to see them as obvscum or whatever.

I will say that if people want BC lynched then I wouldn't be opposed but I still think that both Kop and KT are better options. The only reason people think KT is town (including me on day 1) is because we consider him newb town. I think that is potentially underestimating.

Kop on the other hand hasn't done much scum hunting and has only jumped on wagons. Never tried to start one.

I am starting to think that it is possible ranger is scum as well.

If people want BC lynched, you surely will need a reason to vote for that lynch, not just because people want someone lynched, what you said, is band wagoning, oh hold on, that's what you are accusing me off, carry on.

What are your reasons for thinking that Ranger could possibly be scum?

[Kop]

I'm feeling like it's time for KT to exit this game, he's scum by POE and possibly scum by play - His actions at the end of yesterday pinged me, as does his continual asking me to 'explain naked votes' when all of my votes are pretty clear with limited research of my posts and the context around them. Either way he shows no intention of improving his approach, and if he's town I won't miss him.

I think this is the concensous that I'm coming too right now. If anything, it removes any doubts of what he is, and removes the WIFOM that he brings to the game. I still think we have a lot of time left to actually do some work before we lynch KT.

[Kop]

As for YOU, well.. you never crumbed or hinted anything. Why would scum shot at you on N1 anyway?

Same reason they

always

do: fear of me, either gained from the game or carried over from a previous one.

And if you don't die, that means your not town, right?

[Kop]

Right now this is where am at.

Town - Almost50, Davesaz

Leaning Town - Acryon, ChilledTea, Xtom

Can't get a read properly - Mad King Ashnard, Ranger

Leaning Scum - Aneninen, Burning Crystal,

Scum - Kaintepes

So I wouldn't mind a lynch out of the bottom three.

[Kop]

Yes. While its theoretically possible there is no second kill, the odds are 1/12. So I am assuming two kills meant to take place.

~Titus

How do you come to a basis that there could have been a chance at being a missing kill? If Kuroi jailkept you, or Almost50, that would account for a second kill if there was one.

We've had these assumptions on and off now, and without seeing it, why talk about it?

VOTE: Burning Crystal

[Kop]

Yeah, what chilled said. A PGO doesn't count if you don't have a night action, and if you do then you should know for certain if you had been jailed or roleblocked.

Also, I don't think a PGO would still stay silent for this long. I mean, if it was me I would have made sure I don't kill a PR by mistake, even if it meant I got lynched before LyLo, so I'm assuming there's not a PGO.

So, it's indeed very likely that there has been a blocked 2nd NK (RB'd of by JK or a no kill gambit.. doesn't matter), but it's how you explained it that doesn't look too well for you.

No but surely you wouldn't play scummy enough to be investigated?

I wouldn't stay silent but I'd do enough to make scum come after me. They shoot you, you get one of them in return.

Or look at the setup and claim some role that scum would like out of the game whilst not drawing a Cc. Risky but it pays.

[Kop]

@Kop, Really, scumreadung all the major wagons? That's pretty convenient.

@Aninen, I don't do VCA until a scumflip. It's pretty well documented actually.

You're not even stating what the scumslip is but just repeating that over and over. That is a discrediting strategy.

I sheeped obvtown Almost and Dave onto your wagon day 1. They were claimed PRs. The only place for scum to attack was me. There was a huge wagon on my slot that no one could provide any reason for. Pretty big indication it's town being punished for a vote. You whine about being discredited but you're just caught scum and yes I give zero credit to scumreads who only whine about their perception after being wagoned for the most part.

@Xtoxm - Why did you think outing you suspected I was a VT was a good idea? I was hoping to have scum think I was the tracker/cop and draw more bullets not less. There's a missing kill. I was the logical jail choice (given the jailors scumreads). For any scumteam to miss a kill, they'd have to be dumb or desperate. Dumb leaves KT or Aninen (thought he could fake a case on me) or KT. Desperate leaves Aninen or MKA or a partner of theirs.

~Titus

Why can't you do VCA on a town flip? I know a scum flip does show who could have possibly bussed, but surely you could get some information from a town flip?

Dave claimed? I thought he hinted or dropped some sort of crumb? So why would you put him in the obvtown bracket based on a crumb, hint?

[Kop]

What are your reasons for thinking that Ranger could possibly be scum?

What are your reasons for thinking I wouldn't be? Especially given,

And if you don't die, that means your not town, right?

Can't get a read properly - Mad King Ashnard, Ranger

These. (And to answer: no, it simply means scum did not view me as the largest threat. While I do get nightkilled a disproportionately high number of games, it is not necessarily immediately on N1, and depending on game length, may never happen. I'm

always

town.)

Have I accused you of possibly being scum?

The

if you don't die

, is an assumption, not an accusation. You've harped on enough about being night killed early, probably on more than one occasion within this game, I put that in there, to see what response you would have given. I'm always town, is just words to me in a thread. You can protest that into 100 games, I guarantee, you'll be scum in one of them and you'll say the same thing.

[Kop]

VOTE: Ranger

I'm actually warming to this idea.

Please talk to me about how you think Acryon is looking worse with his posting, than Burning Crystal, and what you said the other real life day.

[Kop]

So are you veering away from Acyron could be town stance now?

[Kop]

Ranger is still leaning into my scum pile. I'd actually consider some more votes on her.

[Kop]

I will -once again-repeat this: The ideal lynch is KT. It will remove much confusion and provide some pointer at the very least, but I also genuinely think it will remove one scum off the game.

I'd rather that as a last ditch, if we aren't anywhere near solving this Ranger/Burning Crystal scum readings.

The only confusion I'm getting is his alignment. His posts are more annoying than confusing. If he's scum, he'll slip imo.

[Kop]

Any scum lynch is good. But if KT is town his lynch gives us next to nothing. It's better than losing a PR but worse than losing someone whose reads are trustworthy.

Which is why there is more information to be gained from either BC/Ranger/Aneninen.

I sense KT can be the last ditch lynch, I wouldn't want him near MYLO/LYLO. But I think it should be the next day phase if anything to get rid of KT.

One of those 3 mentioned in the first line, needs resolving.

[Kop]

I am always ok with KT lynch. I am not sure about Anen, but he has given me strong town vibes during day 1. Just difficult to see him being scum.
I would be happiest with kop lynch.

So basically, you, xtoxm & myself agree it should either be KT or Kop (or -considering PK is the mod- we can always try to lynch Kuroi)

<<< @pisskop

I don't get it. I wish to make it clear that my play in any one game does not reflect my opinion of any player. Usually its nothing personal

I'm not following?

[Kop]

The inconsistencies shown by a few, unbelievable.

[Kop]

Going to have lunch, then read over a few things.

[Kop]

VOTE: Kop

I still think anen is town though. I have a strong town read on MKA. Town read on xtoxm, and town read on acryon. I will set aside BC for now.

That leaves davesaz, almost - I think they are town.

Ranger - I think is scum

KT - Absolutely could be anything. Probably scum.

The problem here is - even using process of elimination, I am finding it difficult to find scummy players. There is a chance I am reading some of these guys wrongly.

xtoxmx, whenenver he has posted seemed town to me. But he isn't saying much anyways.

MKA could be that boss player of a scum. Like I am scared to think of MKA as scum. It is possible anen is scum.

This is all assuming BC is not scum.

One thing is certain, I think Kop is scum. I am once again having my double think regarding BC.

Why would you be scared to think MKA as scum?

You've flipped your reads over that many times, soon enough, you may just get to the conclusion you are looking for. You've gone a whole 180 on Burning Crystal, then unvoted them and now your going to double think about BC.

This is what I'm getting from the inconsistencies of your reads. What made you change your mind and unvote Burning Crystal and now your going back onto that read to double check?

xtoxm may be posting little, how can you call that towny? Is it the style of his posts? Or is there no possibility that he could be posting in this manner that he doesn't give much away whilst trying to act towny as scum?

[Kop]

The inconsistencies shown by a few, unbelievable.

Are you talking about Lallana? Sturridge?? Or the whole bunch of them??

Seriously though, why don't you try a bit harder to clear your name and deter the -hypothetical- wagon on you?

It's the weak mentality in the squa........

[Kop]

VOTE: Kop

I still think anen is town though. I have a strong town read on MKA. Town read on xtoxm, and town read on acryon. I will set aside BC for now.

That leaves davesaz, almost - I think they are town.

Ranger - I think is scum

KT - Absolutely could be anything. Probably scum.

The problem here is - even using process of elimination, I am finding it difficult to find scummy players. There is a chance I am reading some of these guys wrongly.

xtoxmx, whenenver he has posted seemed town to me. But he isn't saying much anyways.

MKA could be that boss player of a scum. Like I am scared to think of MKA as scum. It is possible anen is scum.

This is all assuming BC is not scum.

One thing is certain, I think Kop is scum. I am once again having my double think regarding BC.

Why would you be scared to think MKA as scum?

You've flipped your reads over that many times, soon enough, you may just get to the conclusion you are looking for. You've gone a whole 180 on Burning Crystal, then unvoted them and now your going to double think about BC.

This is what I'm getting from the inconsistencies of your reads. What made you change your mind and unvote Burning Crystal and now your going back onto that read to double check?

xtoxm may be posting little, how can you call that towny? Is it the style of his posts? Or is there no possibility that he could be posting in this manner that he doesn't give much away whilst trying to act towny as scum?

Regarding BC :

How is changing you mind "inconsistencies"? Inconsistency is when you have two opinions at the same time which contradict each other. Or you could say inconsistency is when a player deliberately keeps loose opinions so that he can keep changing his opinion as the tide changes.

BC came and defended herself and almost50's post gave me new perspective on BC's situation. Reads change with time. They don't remain Rock solid same throughout the game, that is actually bad play and is called as tunnelling. It is also a result of close mindedness.

Regarding xtoxm :

xtoxm was a strong town read during day 1. Unfortunately he hasn't posted much at all during day 2 and that has reduced my town read of him. Other than that I can't consider him scummy. It isn't that he is town because he is posting little, it is that he was 80% town before on day 1, now because he is posting little (for whatever reason) he is 70% town.

Regarding MKA :

I have had a very strong town read on this slot. Their push against BC seemed very genuine and in general I can't see that much wrong with their game. It is just frustrating that both MKA and xtoxm who are high town reads of mine aren't playing much.
If MKA is scum it will be like a shock, that is why I am scared to think of it. Ultimately some of my scum reads are because of Process of Elimination.

Is that the same tunnelling your using on me then? You've scum read me pretty much since you walked into the game, I don't actually think you've changed your mind regarding myself, and I asked you before to give me a post I can actually defend myself with, I don't recall you actually doing that. Your vote is on me again, and still haven't given me a case to answer too.

[Kop]

Spoiler:

VOTE: Kop

I still think anen is town though. I have a strong town read on MKA. Town read on xtoxm, and town read on acryon. I will set aside BC for now.

That leaves davesaz, almost - I think they are town.

Ranger - I think is scum

KT - Absolutely could be anything. Probably scum.

The problem here is - even using process of elimination, I am finding it difficult to find scummy players. There is a chance I am reading some of these guys wrongly.

xtoxmx, whenenver he has posted seemed town to me. But he isn't saying much anyways.

MKA could be that boss player of a scum. Like I am scared to think of MKA as scum. It is possible anen is scum.

This is all assuming BC is not scum.

One thing is certain, I think Kop is scum. I am once again having my double think regarding BC.

Why would you be scared to think MKA as scum?

You've flipped your reads over that many times, soon enough, you may just get to the conclusion you are looking for. You've gone a whole 180 on Burning Crystal, then unvoted them and now your going to double think about BC.

This is what I'm getting from the inconsistencies of your reads. What made you change your mind and unvote Burning Crystal and now your going back onto that read to double check?

xtoxm may be posting little, how can you call that towny? Is it the style of his posts? Or is there no possibility that he could be posting in this manner that he doesn't give much away whilst trying to act towny as scum?

Regarding BC :

How is changing you mind "inconsistencies"? Inconsistency is when you have two opinions at the same time which contradict each other. Or you could say inconsistency is when a player deliberately keeps loose opinions so that he can keep changing his opinion as the tide changes.

BC came and defended herself and almost50's post gave me new perspective on BC's situation. Reads change with time. They don't remain Rock solid same throughout the game, that is actually bad play and is called as tunnelling. It is also a result of close mindedness.

Regarding xtoxm :

xtoxm was a strong town read during day 1. Unfortunately he hasn't posted much at all during day 2 and that has reduced my town read of him. Other than that I can't consider him scummy. It isn't that he is town because he is posting little, it is that he was 80% town before on day 1, now because he is posting little (for whatever reason) he is 70% town.

Regarding MKA :

I have had a very strong town read on this slot. Their push against BC seemed very genuine and in general I can't see that much wrong with their game. It is just frustrating that both MKA and xtoxm who are high town reads of mine aren't playing much.
If MKA is scum it will be like a shock, that is why I am scared to think of it. Ultimately some of my scum reads are because of Process of Elimination.

Is that the same tunnelling your using on me then? You've scum read me pretty much since you walked into the game, I don't actually think you've changed your mind regarding myself, and I asked you before to give me a post I can actually defend myself with, I don't recall you actually doing that. Your vote is on me again, and still haven't given me a case to answer too.

It is not a single post.

Also come on now. I didn't tunnel you. Even during day 1 when I voted you, I decided to take it easy and decided that BC and texcat were the best options.
I will try to express my doubts regarding you using several posts.

Spoiler:

VOTE: Texcat

I'm down with that.

If we can't get any further with this wagon, I propose a no lynch. We are walking into dangerous territory if we go from wagon to wagon and get them close to a lynch, before changing due to roleclaims etc.

Even KainTepes recognized that no lynch was probably a bad idea. Your act surrounding "outing" power roles, seems fake. This is because I don't think we have that many power roles anyways. One of them is already nk'd, two of them have kind of claimed. When you made that post, all three of them had claimed. It seemed a fake feel.

Spoiler:

Right now this is where am at.

Town - Almost50, Davesaz

Leaning Town - Acryon, ChilledTea, Xtom

Can't get a read properly - Mad King Ashnard, Ranger

Leaning Scum - Aneninen, Burning Crystal,

Scum - Kaintepes

So I wouldn't mind a lynch out of the bottom three.

Talking about inconsistencies, out of all the people KainTepes is supposedly your scummiest read. He actually hasn't done anything at all to even be considered the scummiest person, and what's more, you are doing nothing to push for his lynch even considering the fact that there are so many willing to go the route of policy lynching him including myself.

I mean, even apart from these two posts, your opinions have never been concrete. You have never pushed for anything, and it seems like you don't have much belief in your own reads. You proceed to vote Ranger later on for eg: what came of that?

I definitely think you are scum now. There is a difference between day 1 lingering suspicion and day 2 more concrete suspicion and this is my day 2 suspicion.

3 had claimed at the point of me suggesting a no lynch? Who were they? As far as I was aware, there was a crumb (I didn't see it), WB, and a VT. It doesn't really matter about being very little PR's in this setup, there was no conclusion at that point, that pointed out how many PR's are in the game. I don't really see a big problem with a no lynch on day one, especially when things are going from wagon to wagon, and the timing of the last wagon that formed. If it was no where near the deadline, it wouldn't have concerned me or even crossed my mind.

I'm scum reading KT because I don't get any town vibes from his posts. But I'd rather let the whole trio of suspicious activity within anen/ranger/BC take it's course, as I strongly believe those 3 contain the most information that can be produced. KT's lynch, unfortunately doesn't give a great deal of information that could link things together, that's why he's a policy lynch.

So day one is lingering suspicion, day 2 is concrete, I don't see this concrete evidence that you are claiming?

[Kop]

What about Kuroi the Jailer? I believe he had already claimed back then. The weak bodyguard, the crumb, meant that three power roles were already outed/pseudo-outed.

Your reason for no lynch means nothing because people were going behind suspects not just randomly selecting people to lynch. There are always few power roles, and this game has made it certain that there are at least 5 town citizens. Fear of hitting power roles is something that I can't relate with at all.

You haven't pushed for anyone. Other than KT in the beginning of the game.

Bare in mind that unfortunately there is process of elimination working here as well. I am suspicious of you because others have done a better job of scumhunting imo than you have.

But I am so sceptical of lurkers. Lurkers reduce the game to basically townies blabbering with each other and then make the town lynch the scummiest town player. This is something I am learning quite a lot here on MafiaScum.

I forgot that Kuroi came out, but that was due to being run up with votes. If the wagon against Texcat changed it's course, I didn't want any more claims, but now that you pointed that out, it looks not so good now. I didn't look at the bigger picture at the time.

Other players may be scum hunting better than me, at the end of the day, everybody has different playing styles, different abilities of reading things better, unfortunately they are probably better than me, and makes them look better at scum hunting than myself, if that's one of the reasons that is behind the basis of you scum reading me, that's not really a strong point that can back itself up.

[Kop]

Well, ir looks like I'm the lynch for today.

So I'll claim with it being L-1, I'm a Town Citizen.

[Kop]

hmm

just noticed how close deadline is

VOTE: kop

also

its odd that his reaction to being accused of not scumhunting is "im bad at scumhunting" rather than "yes i have"

I've not exactly been good at scumhunting in this game. So why should I lie and claim that I have been brilliantly scumhunting when it's not that case?

It's close to the deadline and we are compromising on a lynch, I've not contributed a great deal at finding scum, but it's nice for you to come along in time for a vote, where were you for the other days from day 2 starting to now?

If I'm lynched, I think you should be the next one to be watched outside of the Anen/BC/Ranger. Because whatever happens outside of this next night phase, I think them 3 will change.

[Kop]

That whole vote just seems opportunistic.

[Kop]

Pisskop you have xtom voting for me and KT.

[Kop]

Good game werewolves.

I started to work out Xtom but I think it was too late.