Mini Normal 1890 - Endgame

[TwoFace]

VOTE: key

[TwoFace]

with a shitty vote like that nobody is going to kill you

[TwoFace]

So magna is scum or can be ignored. Good to figure that out early

[TwoFace]

I'm not an alt of a bad player. If you are actually being genuine about your read on matt based on what you've posted, I'm confident that my statement in 32 is a good one.

If you're town your grasping at things that aren't scummy. Now if this is some shitty reaction test and you aren't serious, 32 still applies.

I'm pretty good at this game. You should just sheep me

[TwoFace]

Well I'm not scum so I can't bus anyone.

[TwoFace]

I understand the process of grasping at straws. It's almost never productive hence my comment.

If you're town I can't wait to laugh at you. Hopefully you're scum cause i don't remember you being this shitty.

I'll start ignoring you now.

[TwoFace]

tf seems like tf.

[TwoFace]

Barley. How are your familiar with me?

[TwoFace]

VOTE: magna

I'm good with a magna wagon.

[TwoFace]

Reminding Cooperative Sheep that I don't count bolded votes, please use vote tags.

Damn that's harsh

[TwoFace]

you totally should

[TwoFace]

why don't you like it?

[TwoFace]

Personally I don’t see moving my vote anytime soon. Barley’s “Oh god replace me my slot is dead” when he has exactly one vote (mine) and I’m sitting at 5 votes is not a Town reaction IMO.

--

Not really a scum reaction either though...

[TwoFace]

What do you think of my attack on Magna at the moment? I feel like his answers continue to slightly dance the issue, it makes me want to lynch him. Do you see that, or do you think I'm making stuff up, or what?

I still haven't see anything from him that reads town. Everything reads scum trying to look town. That's why I wanted him to self vote so boon would hammer. He didn't which leads me to think he's scum also

[TwoFace]

Why would I vendetta vote you? Just cause I don't think you're a good player doesn't mean I'm going to vote you. Besides I'd rather lynch my scum read, which is what I'm trying to do.

[TwoFace]

Are you scumreading me 2f?

You are null.

[TwoFace]

Somebody give magna some peanut butter to go with all that jelly.

[TwoFace]

Had you self voted there you would have proven you aren't afraid of getting lynched and would have basically been near confirmed town in my eyes barring a magna/boon team.

[TwoFace]

Scum have this little thing call being the informed minority. You might have heard of it. Who is in the best position to talk against what they think can be framed as a bad wagon / action / pressure what have you? Scum. Town don’t know for certain that the player isn’t scum on page 1. Speaking out strongly isn’t going to backfire on Scum (and yes, I’m ignoring Multiball concerns for the moment) and make them look bad. Is it a smoking gun? Of course not. But for page 2 it’s certainly enough to press on.

Da fuck is this garbage? Please don't tell people to go back to newbie games if you turnout to be town and posted this crap.

Town talk about bad wagons all the time, even as early as page 1/2. It's a crap reason to push on and you are experienced enough to know that. So you acting like you don't know that is why you need rope. You are near confirmed scum to me now.

[TwoFace]

Had you self voted there you would have proven you aren't afraid of getting lynched and would have basically been near confirmed town in my eyes barring a magna/boon team.

Bullshit.

VOTE: TwoFace

Self-voting is never a reason to Town read someone. Period. The only reason you should ever self-vote is to prevent a no-lynch that hurts Town by robbing them of information if you are not a useful role. Your "I would think you were near confirmed Town" is either a garbage argument from a bad Town player or scum looking to justify their weak scum read. But since you are "so good" I'll just assume scum ...

Yeah no way this is town.

[TwoFace]

You're a bad player.

[TwoFace]

@Two-Face - I agree with Magna, willingness to die is not actually a good town playstyle. You're supposed to make scum fight for those mislynches, not play along with them.

It's not willingness to die. It's not being afraid of it.

[TwoFace]

Now I disagree with magna' original reasons for his push but he seemed to believe them. His vote change to me is bad because he just flushed that conviction down the toilet for even worse reasoning.

That's why I'm saying without a shadow of a doubt magna is scum. He gave up something he believed in for something non AI. Town just doesn't do that.

[TwoFace]

Or at least they shouldn't...

[TwoFace]

Well if you're not scum at least you consistently have shitty/wrong opinions

[TwoFace]

because scum can't believe their pushes.

Btw this actually confirmed what I'm saying.

If he was town who believed strongly in his push (which his posts imply they did) he wouldn't have abandoned them for something non AI (which he did)

Secondly scum can absolutely believe in their pushes. thats the best way to play as scum, push things that you know are scummy, things you would push as town.

The goal is to get town to think you're being genuine and the best way to do that is to actually be genuine.

[TwoFace]

So grey. Explain to the class how I made a scum post wheh you basically agreed with what I was trying to say.


I can't wait to see you fumble around that one.

[TwoFace]

Yes he's bad at playing scum, at least this game.

He's getting lynched today. It may take a while but it's happening

[TwoFace]

You miss the point of my original post. Not surprising.

[TwoFace]

So yeah you totally missed the point

[TwoFace]

My point is he abandoned something that he was making people think he believed to be true ( whether he is town who actually believed his reasons or scum who was pretending to believe it)

The moment he abandoned it for something non AI, he negated his entire original push aka flushed his credibility down the drain

So right now magna is a player (of unknown alignment) who pushed a player for reasons that he really didn't feel that strongly about yet tried to make people think he did.

to me that points to a player who is almost likely to be scum. I don't see why a townie would do that.

I'm sure this is still probably too complicated for you grey


P.edit lol ok whatever you say buddy

[TwoFace]

2F's interactions have been pretty suspect.

Like hell they have.

[TwoFace]

@2F In 32 you said Magna was scum or could be ignored, by post 40 you said they were either town or scum, and in either case could be ignored. By 35 I get the impression you thought they were more town than not, and you were fast to say you would simply ignore them over work with them. Why?

I'm more curious why you're asking a question where the answer is 1. Obvious and 2. Already been answers if you read my posts.

In post 24 I called out magna vote as shitty, because it was a terrible reason to vote somebody. He's making an assumption that doesn't make sense given what's been posted. If magna was town he should have asked more questions first instead of assuming. So based on magna's vote and reason for it he is either scum or somebody who isn't acting like a townie trying to figure things out so his opinions can be ignored.

In post 40, I'm responding to magnas 39 which was responding to my 35. Magna made an assumption without asking clarifying questions. I interpret that as grasping at straws. If magna is town, he's continuing this grasping and think it's productive. Typically town doesn't have to grasp, scum does. So he's scum or town grasping. If he's town again his opinions can be ignored cause he isn't being productive.

35 - I don't give off the impression I think he's town. If you interpreted that way I'm sorry.


Magna is scum. Pretty obviously so at this point. His posts and thought process aren't ones that make any sense from a town pov.


This all started because Matt didn't think it was a good idea to pressure key. I actually agree with Matt. The assumption magna made without any sort of questioning to me was a blantabt attempt to attack a player for something that on the surface may seem scummy to some, but in reality isn't at all. Typically scum make those attacks. Sometimes bad town players do also. I am familiar enough with magna to know he's not a bad player.

Vote magna please.

[TwoFace]

I only agree with Magna that Matt's post 18 was awful,

Should have read this first. You and I aren't going to get along this game at all.

Where are the smart players? We have to have some in this game. If I'm the only one I'm going to get really frustrated

[TwoFace]

My top scum pick besides TwoFace i

WAIT, Why isn't matt a scum read anymore?

You're still arguing his push was bad yet me and Lycan are your top scumnreads?

lol

[TwoFace]

What’s his Town motivation to try to pre-emptively derail a possible RVS wagon

I can't believe I have to actually answer this.

Rvs wagons are good to gather us info. If you rvs wagon a player who flails as either alignment, how will that gain us info? It doesn't. RVS wagon somebody who isn't a weak player and see how they respond.

He self hammered as town tracker for god sake.

I'd say your reaction to getting votes has actually told us more. 1. You ended up voting me for something that's not scummy or even AI. 2. You just admitted (by way of not scum reading matt anymore) that your push on him wasn't actually genuine.

So you really look like caught scum at this point.

[TwoFace]

Of course he's clearly an alt so there is that ...

You already know I'm an alt so calling my statement a lie looks like you trying to discredit me.

You can't call me a liar if you know there is a chance we've played under another account.

[TwoFace]

WAIT, Why isn't matt a scum read anymore?

You're still arguing his push was bad yet me and Lycan are your top scumnreads?

lol

I mean right on cue we get this ... do you really think he believes that Matt was a solid scum read for me on Page 1?

You pushed it like he was. You defended your push. I believed he was a legit scum read.

So yeah of course I'm going to call you out when you do something scummy like drop a scum read without explanation

[TwoFace]

Wagon whoever you need but the day will end with a magna lynch. I will make sure of it

[TwoFace]

Rvs wagons are good to gather us info. If you rvs wagon a player who flails as either alignment, how will that gain us info? It doesn't. RVS wagon somebody who isn't a weak player and see how they respond.

He self hammered as town tracker for god sake.

Except he didn't flail as scum when I saw him wagonned (not in RVS but Day 1) so the whole crux of this argument is blow-up. Which if you were Town you should have understood when Keyen himself said he didn't flail anymore.

I always tell myself I'm not going to tunnel anymore but I always end up doing it...

The point is he wasn't a good target to push an rvs lynch on. That's what matt was saying. I actually agree with matt. You didn't obviously. That's fine. You are allowed to disagree but you took it a step further and tried to imply his statement was scummy. Correction. You flat out called him scum.

Now he's not even a scum read for you. Which is another bad progesssion.

That's where I'm at. You're either scum (most likely) or town who's not making much sense.

[TwoFace]

Where did everyone go? I would have thought TwoFace for certain would be swooping in to extol the praises of the hammer if he really was as solid on me as scum as he's claimed.

Or he isn't as gullible as Grey since that wasn't a hammer ...

I was busy actually.

[TwoFace]

At the bolded wouldn't you rather do the opposite this doesn't make sense to me if you wagon a strong player per say they would know how to react to wagons like this as scum because they're a strong player so wagoning them wouldn't really do much I don't see your point here. I forgot who asked but my read on Magna is nulltown I've seen some points I disagree with (The Matt post wasn't that awful) but I also agree with a few aswell (Twoface's thoughts seem a bit jambled) I don't think he's as scummy as people are making him out to be

No actually. A weak player is going to react bad and you won't learn anything. If a bad player reacts bad what do
You learn? I learn nothing. I can't even know if a single scum was on the wagon cause all town mislynches are a thing. Especially on bad players.

Strong players aren't perfect. They are prone to mistakes.

[TwoFace]

Seems you're the gullible one, because momo replaced sheep & put you back at L-1.

Lol. momo replaced Cch who never posted ...

You were at L-1.

Sheep unvoted.

Momo voted you, putting you back at L-1.

I hammered.

Momo did not replace sheep. He's not hammered.

[TwoFace]

UNVOTE: for now

[TwoFace]

Magna had 5, sheep moved his vote off magna making it l-3. Momo voted making it l-2. Grey puts him at l-1

[TwoFace]

The fact that magna was at l-1 and hasn't attempted to do anything still makes me feel good about magna.

[TwoFace]

He replaced sheep ON THE WAGON

Right. Learn math and you will see all you did was put him to l-1

[TwoFace]

MagnaofIllusion: Elena Fisher, mattblackguy, TwoFace, BlueBloodedToffee, Cooperative Sheep

5 people on this vc.

Replace sheep with Momo still equals 5.

5+1 = how many?

7- that number equals how many?

Magna was L- that number

[TwoFace]

@mod can you please use L- whatever next to people with votes. Thanks.

[TwoFace]

Here is an image of grey trying to figure out what I'm saying.

Spoiler:

[TwoFace]

And posts like this are why I think you are scum. You, an acknowledged alt, act as if there isn’t this thing called hyperbole. The fact that you are peddling that my post voting him on Page 1 is a “rock solid must be taken 100% at face value” read is bad. It was a tool to move the game forward. And it worked … it has got you to over-commit to this stance that you now are trying to extricate yourself from. The awkwardness with which you are trying to transition to back form “MoI is 100% scum” to “maybe he’s Town who doesn’t make sense” makes me happy with my vote.

Also the fact you need to justify yourself in 195 shows you are too self-conscious about how people perceive you. If I’m so obviously scum as you have droned on about why feel the need to answer the statement I made?

You're shitty omgus doesn't worry me. Your response just reaffirms what I've been saying all along. Thanks. There is no way you as town should disagree with that post cause it's historically been proven true time and time again.

I answered you're question cause I don't ignore questions. I'm not trying to extricate my self from anything. You're getting lynched today. That's a fact. I just unvoted cause there is no need to end the day yet. I can look for your partners.

[TwoFace]

What makes a player "bad" to you? Do we have any bad players in this game can you name them?

Lots of things make a player bad sometimes it's things they do, others it's things they say.

Keyen as town hammered himself as a town pr. That's bad. Grey in the game we played consistently made shitty posts and gave bad advice. In another game he got caught pretty early as scum. Momo (and everyone else who came here from EM) are bad players.

There may be others but off the top of my head those are some.

[TwoFace]

The fact that you are peddling that my post voting him on Page 1 is a “rock solid must be taken 100% at face value” read is bad.

Just wanted to respond to this specifically.

I don't tolerate lying or intentional deception unless absolutely necessary which means only as scum.

You said "scum found" which implies 100% certainty. Don't give me that bullshit about rvs or page 2, cause even in rvs town isn't allowed to lie.

If you weren't being honest, that's your fault not mine. You can't deceive people and then turn around and go "ha ha I caught you" after you've been caught first.

[TwoFace]

which means only as scum.

Edit to add you're a town pr and don't want to out yourself. I'll excuse that kind of lie

[TwoFace]

Magna/Lycra are possible team. Don't like elena's unvote either.

[TwoFace]

What if I'm scum trying to end the day early?

Sure that's possible given my thoughts of your ability to play. I'm not letting magna off the hook though. I'm fairly certain he's scum. If I'm wrong it's an acceptable risk given the very low percentage and how he's destroyed any credibility he may have had.

[TwoFace]

I can understand the fact that your vote on me was a tool to move the game forward, but to move the game forward you didn't have to go and twist my words to make it seem like what I was saying what scummy. If you genuinely didn't agree or understand what I was trying to say you could have asked me about it. You don't really look like you're hunting for scum. You just look like you're hunting for reasons to scumread someone. You're taking posts with no scum motivation behind them and making a shit load of assumptions just to try to paint the post as scummy. Now I don't see the town motivation in that.

[TwoFace]

Magna/Lycra are possible team. Don't like elena's unvote either.

How do you reach these conclusions

Interactions

[TwoFace]

VOTE: Matt

Matt is town. Move back to magna or move elsewhere

[TwoFace]

VOTE: Matt

Matt is town. Move back to magna or move elsewhere

I have reason to vote Matt and I was never on Magna in the first place it was a RVS vote.

Without even seeing them you're reasons are bad. Don't vote magna if you don't want to , but scum LIED to force a fake scum read on matt, and that last post by matt was dead on balls accurate.

[TwoFace]

TF I feel like you tr Matt just because he's' agreeing/taking your side to be frank.

Nope

[TwoFace]

Btw Elena. Your only real mention of matt was saying you didn't think his post was that bad. So why are you acting like your reason for voting him is obvious?

[TwoFace]

Like rereading your iso, votes on barley or boon from you make more sense. Matt seems like a 180 which is funny since you questioned barley for a 180

[TwoFace]

No, I'm not going to let you play mind games with a town read. Answer my questions

[TwoFace]

Or question and then explain your 180 and why you aren't voting boon or barley

[TwoFace]

Don't refer to me as anything other than my name. This is an official request

[TwoFace]

I think it is telling that TwoFace’s reads in 214 are basically “Everyone who disagrees with me on my push on Magna are scum”.

Or more accurately anyone who's protecting caught scum.

[TwoFace]

The timing of the bolded after I’ve called out that you weren’t looking for any partners is telling (

Lol you don't know what I'm doing. Way to unnecessary cast shade on me.

I'm ready to blow the game up and spear head 3 lynches.

I've got good leads now.

VOTE: magna

[TwoFace]

Not if it involves matt. Sorry.

[TwoFace]

Do you normally defend your townreads like a mamabear? I don't think you should be bothered/worried about this

This particular one yes I do.

[TwoFace]

I keep having to retype things I say so I can stay as vague as possible here lord stop it.

Vague isn't a town trait. My suspicion of you is now reaffirmed.

Btw magna is at l-1 again.

[TwoFace]

It was page 1 and moving the game forward was my primary goal.

Why did you feel the need to do it dishonestly?

Why did you feel the need to force it anyway?

Letting the game progress naturally is always better than forcing us out of rvs. The reason why is more and more scum players realize that most people look at that as a town trait so scum try to get the game out of rvs.

[TwoFace]

My vote on Matt was never because I had a sr on him quite the opposite

If you're town please quit mafia forever.

Twoface's reaction was badish

nah it really isn't.

[TwoFace]

Manga is getting lynched today. Nobody else.

[TwoFace]

Elena voting Matt and then not saying why, just reasons, then voting WITH Matt. Come on...

Elena, Grey, and BBT is the scum team. Quote this later. (Mainly POEing this, BBT. Nothing personal).

Nope. Magna is scum. As close as a guarantee as you can get.

[TwoFace]

It's town v town to me until something else tells me otherwise.

Done

[TwoFace]

Elena is prob scum cause town doesn't vote town reads

[TwoFace]

Elena is prob scum cause town doesn't vote town reads

I've already said that.

I said it first tho

[TwoFace]

Sorry. I actually implied it by saying if she's town to quit mafia forever.

[TwoFace]

Elena voting Matt and then not saying why, just reasons, then voting WITH Matt. Come on...

Elena, Grey, and BBT is the scum team. Quote this later. (Mainly POEing this, BBT. Nothing personal).

Nope. Magna is scum. As close as a guarantee as you can get.

Says this, yet isn't voting for Mag. Hilarious. Replace Grey on my scum list with Two Face. This was the scummiest thing I've seen this game so far.

Elena/Two Face, I'll vote either.

Aaaaaand THIS ALSO MAKES ME TAKE A STANCE ON THE TF AND MOI ISSUE YOU LOT HAVE BEEN TELLING ME TO PICK. I picked, now move your dumb pointless pressure votes that was scum driven anyways.

Try actually reading cause I am voting mag.

You're scum aren't you boon?

[TwoFace]

You say I'm scum for voting a townread? That's really bad logic. I want to see Boon's case on me though.

No, voting a town read is a scum claim. That's why I said if you're town quit mafia.

[TwoFace]

Now vote your scum buddy, Grey.

K

VOTE: Boonskiiiiiiies

Oh fuck. I read this as two face voting me.

I second a full claim cause I don't buy it

[TwoFace]

VOTE: boon

[TwoFace]

We'll lynch magna day 2

[TwoFace]

Still not sold

[TwoFace]

It's why people who played with me often learn to just deal with me Day 3 and on because you need more info BECAUSE IM THE FUCKING EASIEST SEEMING MISLYNCH EVER. I'm loud, abrasive, and have boon logic. Of course fucking scum is gonna push me.

People who just let people slide until day 3 should also quit. Nobody gets any free pass

[TwoFace]

Fucking terrible town.

I did lie about BP, though.

Just VT. Go die town. So fucking terrible.

I swear you better be scum

[TwoFace]

It's why people who played with me often learn to just deal with me Day 3 and on because you need more info BECAUSE IM THE FUCKING EASIEST SEEMING MISLYNCH EVER. I'm loud, abrasive, and have boon logic. Of course fucking scum is gonna push me.

People who just let people slide until day 3 should also quit. Nobody gets any free pass

And when you're wrong on me? What then? What will your reaction be then?

Well if you flip town I'm blacklisting you cause your lie hurt town.

[TwoFace]

Fucking terrible town.

I did lie about BP, though.

Just VT. Go die town. So fucking terrible.

I swear you better be scum

Fabricate pointless statements more, scum.

No. Cause if you are town who lied you have actually hurt the game for reasons...

[TwoFace]

You didn't have to claim anything

[TwoFace]

You were at what L-3? You weren't in danger of being lynched at the time.

Whatever. It happened. honestly, you are just stating reasons to town read me. I see NO FUCKING reason to do any of this shit as scum.

I don't see any reason for you to do it as town though

[TwoFace]

It's village idiot stuff, and I am THE VILLAGE IDIOT. What are you all not understanding?

Well I'll agree with the idiot part

[TwoFace]

I'm good with boon still. If it falls apart I'll be pissed but a magna lynch will be a good way to make me feel better.

[TwoFace]

Then read the post above this as I clearly stated it early and stop being ignorant. I thought you were a better player than that to at least understand. Guess not.

Why don't you read my post I made earlier about town shouldn't lie first.

I don't give a shit what stupid fucking reason you have to justify it. If you're town I have no interest in your stupidity anymore.

Cause I equate lying with scum. You're scum

[TwoFace]

God damn it, two face. I'm literally LOL'ing in real life right now. Like, I know you're scum and I can't do anything about it. (Things like that make me love this game...) haha.

Except I really am town and you're scum

[TwoFace]

Sure. They shouldn't lie. I did. What of it?

You're scum

[TwoFace]

When I flip town? What of it?

I'll blacklist you and do something else that i can't say

[TwoFace]

Like you so obviously aren't

[TwoFace]

When I flip town? What of it?

I'll blacklist you and do something else that i can't say

Same to you if you're town.

Fine. But I've done nothing wrong so I won't worry about it given the source

[TwoFace]

He can't explain it cause he knows I'm not

[TwoFace]

He can't explain it cause he knows I'm not

VOTE: Two Face

Tag. You're it.

You're correct I'm town.

[TwoFace]

Yeah boon is definitely scum

[TwoFace]

I mean, look at our posts. It's obvious I don't town read him. I don't see him as a bad player. I get his perspective against me as scum. Easy seeming mislynch that he can get away with without harming his cred.

I voted you cause I knew your claim was a lie. You weren't an easy mislynch to me. You were scum caught fake claiming.

[TwoFace]

Cop/gunsmith - if we have one of you, investigate me and end this charade toNight, haha.

There is no cop or gunsmith

[TwoFace]

I mean, look at our posts. It's obvious I don't town read him. I don't see him as a bad player. I get his perspective against me as scum. Easy seeming mislynch that he can get away with without harming his cred.

I voted you cause I knew your claim was a lie. You weren't an easy mislynch to me. You were scum caught fake claiming.

Why wouldn't I full claim as scum?

I can't read your mind

[TwoFace]

You are also not surviving this day so you don't have to worry about night

[TwoFace]

I have crazy, bold fake claims when I fake claim. Also, my soft claiming had a purpose here for town. I was trying to draw a NK on me, while also potentially pushing the lynch off of me, while also giving scum the potential WIFOM of is he BP? Did he do hat on purpose? It's really sound and simple, actually.

You also said people can't meta you which means you can change your meta.

You lied. You're scum. It's that simple.

[TwoFace]

Cop/gunsmith - if we have one of you, investigate me and end this charade toNight, haha.

There is no cop or gunsmith

Look, this guy knows what's in the game. Scum slip.

How does scum know what town PR's are in the game?

First I'm not scum
Second I know there is no cop/gunsmith cause of reasons.

[TwoFace]

Cop/gunsmith - if we have one of you, investigate me and end this charade toNight, haha.

There is no cop or gunsmith

Look, this guy knows what's in the game. Scum slip.

Yeah cause scum know what PRs town has.

You are so scum it hurts.

[TwoFace]

You're asking how scum know what PRs are in the game.

I don't think scum knows which PRs are in the game.


Better?

[TwoFace]

Yes, I change my meta. And I also bring up self meta literally every game, and that fact. Check it.

No need. We'll just lynch you instead. It's easier

[TwoFace]

You are also not surviving this day so you don't have to worry about night

I really hate when people do this.

Don't really care what scum hate

[TwoFace]

Regardless of your alignment I don't give a rats ass what you have to say post game

[TwoFace]

You're asking how scum know what PRs are in the game.

I don't think scum knows which PRs are in the game.


Better?

Not really. That was kinda the point I was making @ Boon, but you felt the need to Garcia it.

Why?

I thought you were talking to me. My bad

[TwoFace]

Regardless of your alignment I don't give a rats ass what you have to say post game

See, he slipped. He knows I'm town with this post.

So reading isn't your strong suit. Noted.

[TwoFace]

The size of this game doubled in a few hours lol.....

I'll make it easy. Boon fake claimed a pr. Got caught in a lie and is now back pedaling/flailing.



Lynch boon

[TwoFace]

Regardless of your alignment I don't give a rats ass what you have to say post game

See, he slipped. He knows I'm town with this post.

That kind of hyperbole is NAI for 2F.

This. I'm probably the only scum player to black list a town player.

[TwoFace]

Regardless of your alignment I don't give a rats ass what you have to say post game

See, he slipped. He knows I'm town with this post.

That kind of hyperbole is NAI for 2F.

This. I'm probably the only scum player to black list a town player.

See? He just admitted he's scum blacklisting a town. Like, why aren't we lynching this.

Damn you're dumb. I'm referring to me black listing grey

[TwoFace]

I mean, with how I felt about the potential town people in this game, I'm sure you can see the town perspective.

Nobody can see the town perspective. Cause there is no town perspective

[TwoFace]

Pretty sure I'm going to get force replaced soon so please lynch boon and after that magna.

I'm now afraid to post so I'll just go to bed.

[TwoFace]

I'll help you out. Boon basically spam posted a bunch, he freaked out and claimed BP. Got caught lying. Retracted his claim and now is trying to lynch the person who called him on his lie.


Hopefully this post didn't offend anyone or ruin their experience

[TwoFace]

After seeing Matt and

DC

I made an official request that you refer to me as my name. This is my final request.


refer to me as twoface, 2face, face, Two, 2, or TF. Those are the only acceptable ways you can refer to me.

DC and any sort of comparison to RC is an insult to me and my ability and I will not tolerate being insulted, especially since the mod had to warn me about offending players who aren't even playing in THIS game. (I will never understand that one...)

also if you are town (highly doubtful) you are in no position to criticize me or my play.

Thank you

[TwoFace]

TwoFace has no idea what he is talking about as usual if he is Town. The only role that would make sense for that claim would be an Informed Town Role in which case he badly bungled the Pro-Town way to handle it.

This is completely wrong on all levels but we don't need to worry about that right now

[TwoFace]

“Lynch All Liars” stance

but here is the thing. This isn't a "lynch all liars" issue

this is a player fake claimed, got called out for the fake claim, and retracted his claim after being caught issue.

[TwoFace]

FIRST - Matt's reference to the lynch all liars was referring to my push on boon and had absolutely nothing to do with you.

side note, mod said we need to have fun so let's take a music break shall we? Here is my all time favorite song from the 70s.

Spoiler:

Second - I provided multiple reasons why you were scum, way to misrep my entire case on you.

My original reason for scum reading you had nothing at all to do with you lying... It was because

1. instead of asking matt questions which is the townie thing to do, you jumped to a conclusion that I can't see any townie jumping to.
2. You continued to push this bad reasoning on matt and even defended yourself and your reasons.
3. you abandon your scum read on matt and choose 2 other people and vote one of them, except the reason for your vote was for something non AI and as matt said basically a shitty omgus vote.

the issue of you lying came up AFTER all of these things. So at least get your facts straight if you are going to try and discredit the most towniest person in the game right now.


At this point you are confirmed scum because we have caught scum in boon and you are still arguing with the townie who basically caught him instead of voting boon. Add that to the multiple reasons I gave and the entirely accurate post that matt gave which summarized your play this game.

I think it's safe to say you can stop pretending you are town. You aren't fooling anyone anymore and if any townie thinks you are town... well I can't give my opinion about that.

[TwoFace]

anyone else notice that both magna and boon changed their story when they got back into a corner? I don't see townies doing that. I see scum doing that

[TwoFace]

no but I could totally see how you could make that connection.

[TwoFace]

no worries

[TwoFace]

Yeah! Quit trying to discredit me!

you aren't the towniest, not even by a long shot

[TwoFace]

yes

[TwoFace]

Boonie, are you scum?

I think you're scum

Him and moza are scum.

[TwoFace]

It's not the loud and emotional that makes you scum. It's the fake claiming and getting caught fake claiming that makes you scum.

[TwoFace]

Disagree and please don't call me a fool or a ful

[TwoFace]

My favorite song of the 80s.

[TwoFace]

why did you unvote here?

Wasn't quite ready to end the day and didn't want to risk somebody hammering. Plus I was waiting on people to give their thoughts.

[TwoFace]

My update is I like Lycan more for town and Grey more for scum.

@Grey, what's your take on Magna?

What about Elena?

[TwoFace]

Here's my ISO for a different game.

Here

It it has me mad at the town, self voting, and lying about role as town then coming out as VT before getting lynched. Was town. Read the middle of the ISO, I guess.

nobody cares about your crappy meta

[TwoFace]

I don't recall asking your opinion

[TwoFace]

@zz - your first 2 comments to me the post numbers link to different games.

[TwoFace]

ok so looking at those posts. 40 wasn't fake. And 44, no I never played with him before. You would know that cause in my next post I asked him point blank about it.

[TwoFace]

tf seems like tf.

Barley. How are your familiar with me?

[TwoFace]

Question @ TwoFace

do you think your playstyle is unique enough to be recognized in an anon game for example?

I'll say probably no cause I don't play every game exactly the same. There are some similarities of course but those similarities remind me of other players on site.

[TwoFace]

It's not weird since I'm not anon.

People who play with me know how I sort of play

[TwoFace]

which is? can't see your sig

[TwoFace]

meh not that worried about it

[TwoFace]

@mod, replace me. Sorry, leaving the site.

Wish you the best matt

[TwoFace]

Should have told me we were going to have scum theater. I'd have popped some corn.

[TwoFace]

That's a weird question to ask since I haven't been looking for 3rd parties

[TwoFace]

@Key

How do you feel about 2F hunting for third parties?

2 questions for you. Why do you keep asking key questions? This is at least the second time you asked him specifically.

Second. What posts make you think I'm hunting 3rd parties

[TwoFace]

Heyyy, Elena is also the leading wagon with 4 votes...

And 2f, you're scummy scum hinting but you're still scum so you're doing it scummily.

See if you're town there's literally no way you can think I'm scum at this point.

[TwoFace]

Nah momo, sheep got awfully twisted over a half-hearted post (a glorified prod dodge) that didn't paint him in a shining town light and then doubled down after my vote.

He's scum.

That's like a pebble compared to what boon and magna have done. Those are boulders.

We lynch boon first. Than magna. We can evaluate sheep afterwards

[TwoFace]

But since he said he was bipolar and we have better lynches, we should not be ready to lynch him on D1. Prob not someone I want with me at Lylo but still, not a D1 lynch.

Interesting enough this is the first time he's used the bipolar excuse which I find interesting (unless mafia scum post search malfunctioned)

But why would anyone give him a free ride because he claimed something that's not verifiable?

Sorry really mental illness or not, you get caught like scum. You get lynched like scum.

Since I don't anticipate being here day 2, boon or magna are the only people we are going to lynch today.

[TwoFace]

Boon essentially did that grey.

[TwoFace]

Sheep, you are not a day cop. That is total Bull.

If anyone believes you, they are naive.

He already admitted it was a joke.

There's no cop in this game.

[TwoFace]

Yes we are ONLY lynching boon or magna today. Idk why the fuck people aren't voting them but this is happening. There's no arguing about it.

I'm leading this lynch cause I'm dead tonight

[TwoFace]

nope it's only one of those 2. sheep can be dealt with later. sheep v grey neither of them look good.

grey using a dumb ass defensive accusation like that actually means anything (especially since I don't even consider that reaction defensive, and being defensive isn't even AI)
and sheep attempting to fake claim a PR with a guilty and then using the same defensive accusation back.

[TwoFace]

I'm not unvoting Sheep until it's dead. Period.

you called him scum for something AI. if you are town stop being stupid and vote caught scum in boon

boon is getting lynched today so just stop fighting it.

[TwoFace]

Frankly, idgaf if I'm mislynched at this point because this fucking game is going nowhere.

And if you are town you are partially responsible for it.

Vote boon

[TwoFace]

And if you are town you are partially responsible for it.

[TwoFace]

And you're STILL freaking out over A FUCKING PROD DODGE

btw this never happened. There has been freak outs in the game, boon freaked out. this post I am quoting is more of a freak out than what sheep did.

sheep responding to your post wasn't scummy
it certainly wasn't defensive
and it damn sure is not a reason to scum read anyone.

so if you come out looking bad in this exchange not sheep, and your push makes me want to defend sheep over you and I don't want to defend sheep because I don't even have a town read on him.

if you are town, drop the bullshit push because that is exactly what it is. BULL SHIT.

if you don't want to vote the person who claimed a PR while being run up and lied about it. fine be stupid

vote magna.

THOSE ARE THE ONLY 2 FUCKING OPTIONS TODAY

[TwoFace]

I have to stop posting for a while or im going to get myself modkilled.

I'll post later tonight or tomorrow.

[TwoFace]

Actually force replaced is more like it

[TwoFace]

Drama queen

I have already been warned by the mod so not really.

[TwoFace]

Like, how does one look at 778 and see him as scum?

Your partner obviously.

[TwoFace]

Like, how does one look at 778 and see him as scum?

Its like how can you see him make up a reason for a crappy push. Defend that reason and when under pressure say it was all a lie and think town would do something like that.

They wouldn't. So if somehow you aren't scum (doubtful) he definitely is and is just buddying you.

Though you both being scum is the most obvious and simplest solution. Occam's razor and what not.

[TwoFace]

Who defends their partner that hard day 1? Like actually, though.

I've seen it before.

But fine. Why can't he be scum trying to pocket you? Trying to make himself look better since he has already made himself look bad

[TwoFace]

Also early on you said you wouldn't vote magna. If magna is scum wouldn't he want to keep you on his side, at least for today? also with you around, the attention is off him.

You are essentially helping him hope people forget about his bad play.

[TwoFace]

I'm not reading anymore of your posts. Please just talk to everyone else.

[TwoFace]

I agree with you that he's hard pushing his Boon+you narrative to an odd degree,

It's not to an odd degree actually.

Boon is scum cause his actions make no sense from town
Magna is scum cause his actions make no sense from town

I assume they are scum together cause I don't think this is multiball.

[TwoFace]

It was early day 1; we all played bad.

Playing bad is one thing. Magna intentionally deceived town and when under pressure essentially said oh I'm kidding i wasn't actually serious (despite defending his reasons earlier which implies it was serious)

Town "playing bad" doesn't try to scare people off their wagon by claiming a PR and when people still want to lynch you you retract and say "lol I was just kidding"

Both of these are scum motivation not town motivation

[TwoFace]

Yeah I get that’s what you said. You are incorrect but there you have it.

Matt (who has yet to weigh in) said “Hey this one time Keyen flailed as a Town Powerrole and got himself lynched so that is a bad wagon”. Well personally as scum I saw Keyen get pressured and he didn’t get lynched for flailing. He survived the pressure which abated and then he replaced out later.
So Matt’s premise is invalid (which by the way Keyen said as much himself). A wagon on Keyen may well have shown some alignment indicative behavior. So what you claim is “Town behavior” actually undermined what could have been useful Town information.

This is a post made to justify his original push on matt. It was made well after RVS was over.

Town doesn't make this post and later make this one.

is a “rock solid must be taken 100% at face value” read is bad. It was a tool to move the game forward. And it worked

He also made other posts to justify this "rvs push to move the game forward".

He's caught scum.

[TwoFace]

I literally did (and admitted to) doing the same thing.

Show me where you as town made up a reason for an rvs push. Defended that reason multiple times, and later retracted it saying it was just an rvs and not serious.

No town should ever make up reasons to push somebody. No town should fake justify the fake reasons

That's flat out deceptive behavior that town should not have to do not should they ever.

[TwoFace]

but to translate that twigness to 'none else may be lynched, so sayeth the prophecy' is, in my opinion, odd.

I'm only demanding one of these to get lynched cause I'm definitely getting NKd tonight barring some sort of protection which there's no guarantee is even in the game.

So having the day end with 2 caught scum let off the hook is a travesty in my eyes.

[TwoFace]

because that's not what MoI did

That's exactly what Magna did.

[TwoFace]

It was early day 1; we all played bad.

Playing bad is one thing. Magna intentionally deceived town and when under pressure essentially said oh I'm kidding i wasn't actually serious (despite defending his reasons earlier which implies it was serious)

Town "playing bad" doesn't try to scare people off their wagon by claiming a PR and when people still want to lynch you you retract and say "lol I was just kidding"

Both of these are scum motivation not town motivation

Funny that magna quotes the post right before this one in an attempt to discredit me yet ignored the follow up to it which makes his claim of them being "empty" invalid.

Note he has no interest in actually defending himself or even boon but would rather just discredit me despite admitting twice he knows I'm some sort of PR.

Like if he thought I was lying that's one thing but the fact he's mentioned it twice means he believes it to be true.

His attempts to discredit me is essentially a scum claim. He knows he can't lynch me so why not discredit me so hopefully nobody listens to me.

VOTE: magna

This is happening

[TwoFace]

I've stated AT LEAST 4 different things you've done that is scummy. You have ignored them or brushed them off while discrediting me.

Ignoring these and acting like they don't exsist and/or discrediting a person you KNOW is a PR is not town motivated. It's 100% scum motivated.

[TwoFace]

Who else is doing that?

[TwoFace]

I can't respond to this properly cause I shouldn't even be posting but

1. I've never used "lynch all liars" as a reason so you can just drop that now. I'm not scum reading either of you for lying. It's the motivation behind it plus body of work.

2. I haven't ignored Momo. I haven't ignored anyone. Next time before you accuse me of ignoring someone, try and ask me my opinion of them. For somebody as experienced as you, someone who claims they are playing the game you somehow missed this step. They teach that in road to Rome which is where you think I should've playing so if you can't do it, what should I think?

3. I haven't discredited myself. I've pointed out scummy things and explain why there is no town motivation for it. The people I'm accusing either ignore/discredit (you) or make excuses including his mental health status which is straight bullshit.

My brother has a mental health issue. He wouldn't dare to use it in a game for an advantage

[TwoFace]

2. I haven't ignored Momo. I haven't ignored anyone

Fun fact for everyone not DSOB - ISO him and do a search for Momo.

Then tell me if he is actually paying attention to Momo's posting in a way that shows any thoughts about sorting Momo.

I thought you knew how to play. It's possible to sort people outside of the game thread. I've got 4 scummy people ahead of Momo so why would I waste time on him or anyone else for that matter?

You or boon are the only people who are getting lynched today.

[TwoFace]

I think he did. I'll look tomorrow on a computer. But even if he didn't, that plus other things I've called out makes a body of work that doesn't look town.

[TwoFace]

Yes, but he was doing so in response to Boon's argument of why you were town for defending him - Face's initial stance was 'both are scum' but he eventually offered a theory where, even from Boon's viewpoint, that you wouldn't be clear town. It's not actually a real shift in his position methinks.

See this is spot on. This is something I feel an experienced player like magna if he were town would have picked up on.

[TwoFace]

ll given your top two are Town (me)

if I assume this is true, please tell me why you've played like scum?

There isn't a single post of yours that looks good to me. I see no genuine scum hunting and when people make good points against you, goi either ignored them, discredit thrk, or respond poorly.

I'd give you a pass day 1 if this were a newbie in road to Rome. But you told me to go play there which supports my knowledge of you being an experienced player.

You're too experienced to be doing these things as town and you've yet to justify why.

You also flat out lied about me twice, possibly more. Why would you do that if you're town?

[TwoFace]

@Magna - I think I get that point, I've said on a couple of occasions that I find him oddly focused and tunneled - I think the difference is you presume scum intentional blindness on his part, and I'm approaching it from a stance of personal annoyance/playstyle blinding him. I absolutely agree with you that he has blinders on, I don't automatically translate that to scum intent.

Oh you aren't parsing my exchange with TSOC then - I'm more leaning him just being terrible Town at this stage for a number of reasons. But I absolutely am not letting him get away with crappy empty rhetoric and spamming the thread when I'm fairly confident him getting either of his ways today is a Town lynch.

He stops junk posting "ONLY THESE TWO GET LYNCHED TODAY" and using Appeal to Repetition and I'll happily work on Momo's possible partners.

Calling my reasoning crappy without responding to them to explain why they are crappy or wrong (neither of which is true) just reads like scum caught for the wrong reasons to me.

If more than one person who is town come to thtown fact same conclusion about you without based on independent thought o ocesses. Those reasons aren't crappy. They are the truth.

[TwoFace]

y look ... scum posting!

The bolded is especially funny as a selling point.

Why do you always resort to attacking/discrediting instead of trying to get him to explain himself better.

if you want people to think you're town, you have to act like you are.

[TwoFace]

Magna acts negatively towards anyone who says anything negative about them. Matt made the bet post of the game and magna immediately lashed out.

There's no effort to treat people like they are town and just wrong. No attempts to really get people to seen his side of things.

It's just "I don't care what you think cause you suck or are scum" mentality. I know it well. I definitely use that more when I'm scum.

[TwoFace]

Looking at magnas votes non rvs.

1. Vote on matt. This looked bad to me because he made an assumption (bad) without asking matt any questions first (not townie imo)
2. Votes barley cause of something to do with him being an alt. Don't fully understand the reason for the vote actually but I see no issues with barleys posts. Barley was going after sheep at the time. Not sure if that's useful or not
3. Votes me because I said I'd probably have town read magna had he self voted.
4. Votes Momo. On the surface it's another omgus vote. Basically he sheeped and didn't give any reasons. (Yet magna again never attempts to ask for any. I'm noting a pattern. He actually has the nerve to say Momo is scum cause he doesn't want to end the day early. (Bad)

That's basically a summary of magna's votes from my perspective. Not a single reason given for his votes have been for AI behaviors. Not a single reason given is evidence of any actual scum hunting. Not a single reason given could be argued that it's a good reason to lynch.

For somebody complaining that the reasons given for him are crappy, I was really hoping he had given good reasons himself.

His reasons basically prove what at least 3 people have already said about magna. He's not scum hunting. He's just attacking things that aren't really AI.

Anyone town reading magna, please explain how any of his votes look town. Cause they definitely don't to me.

[TwoFace]

my posts are more townish and accurate than magna's.

so vote magna...

[TwoFace]

Yeah, I hate this.

You asked a question which says I did something I definitely didn't do so shocker you hate it.

I'm town, basically confirmed at this point so you best just move the magna to save face.


But first. Please explain why you indirectly falsely accused me of 3rd party hunting

[TwoFace]

Because you use specific words that don't explicitly look for scum.

Except I've found 2 scum and you've found zero. Nice try bud. My words do look for scum because I look for the motivations behind posts. It's one thing to call out a bad post as bad, but I've explained why there is no town motivation for them.

The person I've caught as scum is the one doing what you think I am doing. At least 2 others also agree with that assessment of magna.

[TwoFace]

maybe even trying to convince him that he isn't town (

That isn't even remotely close to what happened.

[TwoFace]

why not argue that he's flat-out scu

I have flat out called him scum though. 100% scum even

[TwoFace]

The only thing easily readable and new from Boons since the last instance you called him "scum" in 480 was his "see you know my alignment/you're blacklisting town" posts in 486 492. That doesn't add up.

I don't understand what you're trying to say here or what exactly what issues you have. Can you explain better?

[TwoFace]

And Key does the same thing here speculated a jester for god knows what reason.

What key did is literally nothing similar to anything I've done.

[TwoFace]

Asking Key questions helps sort you both.

But why aren't you asking anyone else questions? Trying to sort anyone else?

Why are you busy trying to sort the person who's basically being NKd night 1?

You think I as scum can talk confidently about PRs not being in the game?

No. I've basically made it impossible for any scum to fake claim a PR this game. Why would I do that as scum?

How could I have the confidence level to do that as scum?

If I were scum there is no way I can make a bold statement like that.

[TwoFace]

The bottom line is I've never once attempted to hunt for 3rd party and nothing you've posted supports your accusations. So provide actual evidence or admit you made a false accusation

[TwoFace]

Which one

[TwoFace]

No haven't yet. I know he made a post that was basically implied that I didn't understand what he was trying to do which implies that his push wasn't genuine.

[TwoFace]

Idk. Do you lie over the ocean?

[TwoFace]

Do you perceive Grey+Momo as a force that can derail your wagons? Why would you consider going out of the way to defend someone you don't townread otherwise?

I can't stand when people say things that aren't true, even if they aren't about me. I saw Sheep's response as being what I would expect from any reasonable player.

[TwoFace]

magna, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Every single vote you have made this game has been for NON AI or even NON scummy reasons.

My vote on you I feel have been for AI reasons and I have done a good job explaining why I think they are AI. (at least nobody has questioned me about them)

You are sitting at L-2 currently

, which means others agree that you are probably scum.

Now a good player would probably stop insulting the person that they think is town [insert thing here] and spend more time actually scum hunting and trying to convince people that you are not scum and their votes on you are wrong.


Here I will give you some advice which is actually in my signature and is actually good advice that any good player should be doing anyway

4. If people want me to stop tunneling they need to provide me with a better alternative with good reasoning