Newbie 1826 Basketball Game Over

[UC Voyager]

true true

[UC Voyager]

but if someone where to hammer that, they would clearly be scum....I have shown my support for a no lynch

[UC Voyager]

i'm not willing to take chances on policy lynches like that, especially when there are always the easy excuses of not noticing it was a hammer or it not being as bad of a regular hammer because it's not a lynch.

yea. this is true...UNVOTE:


I actually think we should just run the clock today, so we can get some information out of today

[UC Voyager]

hey, voyager, do you have any scum games that I can see?

Nope. I'm pretty new.

I have two town games I could link later when I'm not mobile. Though they were some of my first games and I did a poor job in both...... : p

[UC Voyager]

Town

Non Consecutive Jail-Keeper

Killed Night one

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=73542

Vanilla Townie

Lynched Day Two

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=73171

[UC Voyager]

I have a hard time wanting to follow your strategy because your slot is my highest scum read, but that looks like a strategy made for many games...

Im not sure who my highest townread is. I want to say Demios, but i have also considered he might have been trying to separate himself from the vote.

[UC Voyager]

most of our reads are all ready out there...

[UC Voyager]

Oh yeah?
Describe my reads.
Describe Deimos' reads.
Heck, I'd challenge you to describe your own reads.

We haven't gakked this up yet, but we're damn close to it right now and for some reason keep galumphing along.

uhhhh. my reads are clear. im not acgtually sure about you or demios.........will make a post later

[UC Voyager]

there's little reason to wait for deimos to be replaced before ending the day. the night phase will likely be on pause regardless.

People should actually stop talking and sheep me.

Vote: No Lynch

true

[UC Voyager]

intent to hammer No lynch in an hour or two at most

[UC Voyager]

Please do not hammer until Deimos is replaced. I replaced into a very late game so you guys can finish it. Please consider this as returning the favor.

This slot never fails to be scummy.

[UC Voyager]

Please do not hammer until Deimos is replaced. I replaced into a very late game so you guys can finish it. Please consider this as returning the favor.

why is it so important that demios gets a replacement?

[UC Voyager]

ucv, instead of asking that question, vote no lynch.

VOTE: NO LYNCH
we are in agreement

[UC Voyager]

Page 23:

My Town feeling for UVC is growing - pretty much entirely on gut, but I just don't see his reaction to his wagon and subsequent pushing of Cheeky coming from scum.

I agree with my predecessor's points against Clemency in 523.

I don't particularly like Thor's entrance.

Toto, who did you replace? I don't see you on the list.

he replaced blackvoid who replaced XandrojX

[UC Voyager]

Page 23:

My Town feeling for UVC is growing - pretty much entirely on gut, but I just don't see his reaction to his wagon and subsequent pushing of Cheeky coming from scum.

I agree with my predecessor's points against Clemency in 523.

I don't particularly like Thor's entrance.

Toto, who did you replace? I don't see you on the list.

Thor made some CRAZY entrance that startled me, but he seemed to calm down...and continue his case on cheeky

[UC Voyager]

Why did Thor entrance it startle you, UC?

It was just a little crazy....he was saying a lot really fast and in the moment, i was like...wtf just happened because there was a new post every 30 sec.....

[UC Voyager]

Although if I really do have reason to Townread you based on the BlackVoid thing (still excited to find out what happened there) and I trust my read on UCV, then the scumteam must be Thor/NSG by POE, from my perspective.

hmmmmm....I thought the scum team would be either Toto/Demios (luca blight) or NSG (clemency)/someone else........but then the replacment storm happened.....the fact that every living player is a replacement is scary and makes reads so much harder!

[UC Voyager]

Although I'm starting to get a bit paranoid over a UCV/NSG scumteam, based on what I'm reading atm.

The bit where UCV saying he would consider a Clemency lynch but would rather Xand....UCV's position on Clemency has been weird for a while now.

I have thought since day two clemency would be lynch bait. it was a gut feeling......not much logic to it........but i would definitely consider a NSG lynch. Im not sure what to think bout BlackVoid replacing out.....

[UC Voyager]

Oh wait, UCV just put Clemency to L-1...I guess that changes things.

as you steal my page top

[UC Voyager]

UC (and everyone else), if you are town you need to stop scumreading my slot. I can explain: mafia don't rage quit like blackvoid did. They. Just. Don't.

They rage quit sometimes when they get in argument with their partner or something. But this is not the case here.

BlackVoid was obviously frustrated about the game state and lack of participation (which is unfavorable for town), and he was so frustrated he quit the game. This is the most certainty you will get a slot is town without a PR clear or a flip.

I agree....so unless the scum team is myself/ToTo and I'm bussing hard which I have said in. Other places I don't like bussing....I have one scum game I can show, but it just ended today and scum team won night 1...

It was a 3v6
Day one
Town mason miss lynch
Night one
Mafia target mason #2
Some townie shoots town cop.
3V3 scum win.....

Really easy win. I was mafia godfather....I had scum partner of a sypasizer and another godfather.

Give me a min while I go find it and link it...

[UC Voyager]

UC Voyager scum game
viewtopic.php?f=83&t=73733&p=9727138#p9727138
It doesn't say much because it was only one day one and one night long...

[UC Voyager]

Actually UCV early posting is giving me the heeby jeebies.

Early posting?

[UC Voyager]

Would it make sense for assemble/peaches to be scum and on each other's wagon? I'm thinking not. Clemency you need to place a vote, sitting on the sidelines makes me suspicious of you.

never thought of that. it is possible.

Stuff like this.

That was day one...right?

At the point. We were thinking either assemble or peaches (luca) are scum....but now we know they were both town ... : p

I think assemble play style is annoying some times. But I have grown used to it.

[UC Voyager]

Who do you think is scum?

I was thinking you were scum, but the way BlackVoid rag quotes screams town...

I want to say Thor is townie because even though he voted CT, he was on the wagon for a while....it feels townie...

I had a gut feeling NSG was lynch bait, but I'm starting to think that they might be scum.

Luca Blight hasn't really done enough. I town read Demios for a while.....

NSG is the only person i feel might be scum, but I can't think of anyone to be scum with her...

[UC Voyager]

I want to say Thor is townie because even though he voted CT, he was on the wagon for a while....it feels townie...

Why does staying on the wagon for a while feels townie?

Because it looked like he was confidante that CheekyTeeky was scum......

[UC Voyager]

Couple questions,

Have you been confident on any push you made so far?
Do you prefer playing as town or mafia?

Well....I don't care as much about alignment....what I care about is the game....if I had to say, I would say mafia, but on my mafia win, I actually didn't put the biggest effort into it.

I enjoy the game, not the alignment

This game has been bla...it has been fun at times, but at the same time. Very boring...

[UC Voyager]

Couple questions,

Have you been confident on any push you made so far?
Do you prefer playing as town or mafia?

I was really confidante in you, but I do agree with blackvoid replacing out being townie.....so I guess not really. : p

[UC Voyager]

here is all my town and scum games


viewtopic.php?f=2&t=73542&p=9693424#p9693424
In this game i was non consecutive jail keeper. i had a hard time keeping up and was forced to claim day one. i wasn't lynched, so i was killed night one by the mafia strongman....

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=73171&p=9713831#p9713831
This was my first game i ever played. i replaced in day two. I was vanilla townie. I played the game in a style that is played on another site. i was ultimately lynched day 2 for trying to......

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=73411&p=9726029#p9726029
This was my first win as town. I was lynched day one though. I replaced in, and scum read the first scum right off the bat, then i scum read the other and voted him. the scum convinced me he wasn't scum, and i switched my vote to a townie...this raised immediate alarm! I was lynched that day because f it, but the town were an;e to lynch the other two scum!

viewtopic.php?f=83&t=73733&p=9727547#p9727547
MY SCUM GAME! it ended fast. it was a micro with 3v6! Day one, i played the game very silent. i kind of lurked! I pulled through til the end of the day, and townie was miss lynched, and i wasn't voting for the townie. i thought this would help me the next day. that night, we had the sympathizer kill a townie, and to our suprise, a townie targeted a PGO, so they died. and that was the last kill needed for scum to win. so we had a flawless win......i survived

[UC Voyager]

here is a question for you

How is asking me questions going to help us find scum! unless you asking me questions is scum hunting......

[UC Voyager]

I'm trying to read you. Your slot is somewhat compromised and I feel I need to make my mind about it before trying to sort everyone else.

Something that bothers me is that you don't seem too stressed about who gets lynched, and you don't seem to react to people calling you a newbie, or other more unpleasant things the way I expect.

I can explain some of that by you coming from ToS and be accustomed to more uncertainty, but while I haven't played ToS, I imagine people here will tend to want to have stronger opinions before buying in on a lynch, and people jumping on wagons without regard are generally seen as mafia tells.

So this is why I want to see your other games,

ok....i have been called noob town a lot.....because i am.....so i don't really react to it as much.......

I do care about who is lynched!!! if we miss lynch, we lose! I am trying to make a read!

Im not sure why Demios was talking about Town of Salem to influence the game.....it is a lot different from this site!

[UC Voyager]

Yeah, but you are not really a noob anymore man. You have already like 5 games. I don't see you trying to do anything resembling scumhunting here. All is random shitposting commentary and very very shallow reads (mostly spelled out stances "X is scum") and you contradict yourself on every turn. You are too complacent. I went from being your top scum read to your buddy in the last page. But you seem to agree with everyone, even your scumreads all the time.

Saying "I think X person is scummy" doesn't really help me read town you, or understand why X is scum. Tell me WHY you think they are scummy, and really think about why can't that person be misdirected town. You say you are bored, but I don't feel you trying to solve the game, yet you post a lot. But there is no emotion even resembling frustration for not knowing who the scumfucks are. Why? Show me. Who are the scumfucks that are trying to get you lynched?

You are not getting NKed in any universe here so might as well sort you out today.

If anyone has a good reason to believe UC is town, please try to convince me as well.

Everything that should be said has all ready been said.....day two...a lot happened.....and my reads still go back to Then.....I can point out a few things I pointed out about Clemency, but it would just be a repeat and adding a few notes....

[UC Voyager]

We have a plauerlist of

Every living player is a replacment...lol..

[UC Voyager]

I am using my phone currently....when I'm not....and I'm at computer......I will make a case

[UC Voyager]

I will make the case, but probably tomorrow because it is a late night...and I don't think I will get a chance to

[UC Voyager]

i could see scum team doing that.

I myself isn't the biggest fan of busing, but i could see another player. i have a NSG case i will post later today! we should wait a few days before doing anything! we should be talking N such. I don't like how Thor hasn't posted much. I want to hear more from him.

[UC Voyager]

If everyone can give their current reads/thoughts while I catch-up then that would be helpful.

I think Toto is town.
I think we should lynch Voyager.
How would you rule yourself out from being a partner with Voyager?

People should actually stop talking and sheep me.

Vote: No Lynch

This is terrible - a no-lynch is acceptable is this situation, but to want it done immediately without using any of the day to find scum/produce more content seems something scum would wish for.

I don't agree with how you think No Lynch is best played.
If you're no lynching - then by definition town can't have a consensus clear townread (or else town is derp).
In that case, any conversation only helps scum figure out who most people consider town.
So why have the conversation exactly?

NThor - If you are town you need to do more. So far the only thing I've seen from you is the push on Cheeky.

You've actually seen a number of pushes from me, though none as big as that one - but since your area of the game to pull evidence from is 1 real day and 1 no lynch day - yeah, there isn't much. But that's silly to whine about.
I might as well complain that I haven't seen a push from you.
It's true...but...

why do you think i should be lynched?

[UC Voyager]

Thor

what are your thoughts on NSG/Luca Blight debate

Why do you think i should be lynched. you said that, and failed to make anything of a case on me....

[UC Voyager]

Also, I'll be keeping my focus on Zemaj's slot, something seemed off about it to me, but I can't fully place my finger on it yet.

Oh no

Do you not want to play with me?

We all love you, but we know how well you can play scum.

I believe it is actually yeah, shame that Voyager couldn't have included that in his naked vote.

As if that slot couldn't get any more foggy.

They seemed to have a lot of focus on my slot, but filed to explain why.....they just said that something is off. This seems a little scummy, but i would like to see some of his other scum games to compare.

They don't expect to die Night 1?

why wouldn't they. if im correct. This was talking about Assemble, But why would He not expect to be night killed? This isn't necessarily scummy, but it makes no since. Was it just the Early game talk, or did it have a point to it

After the fake Hammer. (props to Demios. I might use that in future games). Clemency posted this. As to why? I dont know. Everything he has said before about me seemed to say he had a scum vibe from me, but yet He posted this after the fake hammer. Wouldn't he think it was a good decision if He had thought I was scum?

While I don't know if I like the idea of Voyager in LyLo(no offense), I feel like I should play a bit of devil's advocate here, so scum doesn't get another free mislynch.

While it may seem scummy, the defense that he simply didn't know he had to claim can't be discredited. Considering how new his account is, I'd assume it's his first game here.
We all had our eyes on Assemble(Well, most of us) and I was about ready to claim intent myself.

I wouldn't blame anyone for hammering Assemble, due to how he was playing so apathetically, like he was just bored scum that got caught early. The 'online but not posting' thing especially got to me.
Perhaps this was due to a lack of motivation, or other matters, but he was the best option at a time.

I don't necessarily think Voyager is innocent, but I want to create a counter-argument so if he's scum, he's taken down by facts rather than gut.

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

This defiantly makes me unsure if he is town or scum because im not sure if playing devils advocate is scummy or not TBH. It isn't like lurking which is naturally considered scummy! Im not eactly sure what to make of this. : p


overall. I think he might be scum. The fact he has done little scum hunting is very weird, but I don't want to overthink something like that. It MIGHT get a town lynched, but I wouldn't want to Ignore it and let a scum live.

Some of my early thoughts on how The NSG slot could be scum!

I'm town. It's most likely Deimos, I lost energy to play this game.

This was his reaction. It seemed fake as hell. We all agreed on that. The wagon on clemency stopped when NSG replaced him!

Xnad or Voyager.

toto is town probably because scum don rage quit like that most of the time, and im town, so it looks like he was trying to target the town

Has to be lucca, since Voyager always acts like that anyway.

Lucca is town......so once again...trying to get a miss lynch!

Vc post to fill in with links in the morning

Votecount 1.Final

Peaches (2)

Spartan117 , Assemblerotws ,

Assemblerotws (5)

Plotinus , XnadrojX , Deimos27 , Peaches , UC Voyager , L-0

Plotinus (1)

CheekyTeeky ,

Not Voting (1)

Clemency ,

Day one deadline is Tuesday October 10, 6 PM PST. (expired on 2017-10-10 18:00:00)

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch!

[/size]

Clemency wasn't voting.....HE didn't share many reads, and didn't even vote! It looks to me as if he was trying to look townie for not voting for the person who was lynched! This strikes me as scum!

i feel like i have actively ruined this game. i came in, got someone a lot of people townread lynched and will now probably get my own slot lynched. town probably would have had a better chance if i just let myself die. this isn't even to comment how on poorly i read cheeky.

anyways, here we are with our conftown dead and the promised two weeks to sort things out. hopefully we can still make something out of this. if town can win anyways i might be able to make up for it all.

Kind of hints she is giving up, but later on says that wasn't the case. Im not sure if i should scum read this, town read this, or what, but it definitely seems significant. Town should not be accepting a lynch! If town gets lynched, town loses!

for this game more than others, i think i've found myself thinking "i really want to believe this" a lot. as the deadline grew closer and closer and as we waited in twilight for the flip, i really wanted it to be true that cheeky was scum. if that wasn't true, then not only did it mean i got a townie lynched (and probably myself tomorrow), it also meant that my read on cheeky was totally off. after cheeky had flipped, i found myself really wanting to believe that thor was town. if that wasn't the case and thor wasn't town, it meant that i was getting manipulated

before i was even in the game

. i don't think i'll be wanting to believe things anymore. hopefully i can approach everything from a fresh perspective and get to the core of issues.

a no lynch here is definitely the right choice. no matter who gets killed it's going to be good in terms of information. i'd like everyone to check in and get their thoughts in first before anyone ends the day, but i'm confident this is correct.
VOTE: no lynch

votes no lynch

UNVOTE:

unvotes out of fear it will be hammered early but \/

VOTE: no lynch

revotes it and asks me to hammer it shortly after......

[UC Voyager]

Voyager, what are your thoughts on everything?

Im thinking the NSG, Thor team makes the most since.

Im town reading you. It is more of a gut thing. Since day two, it has been said that this possible scum team would be XandrojX, Demios, but id toto is town, you have to be town. I know im a townie because of my role PM, so that leaves Thor and NSG! i don really care which one we lynch today because im 99% sure they are scum unless some hard bussing and stuff has been going on!


I will make a decent case later tomorrow. it is 11:01 PM UCV time and i have to get up at 5:30 for school, so i want to get to bed! tomorrow should be a lot easier. it is a short day at school, so i will have extra time to post.

[UC Voyager]

Hi

SUP

[UC Voyager]

Hey Uc, What do you think about nsg defense?

She has some, but little defense to it. what makes me think it is scummy is the fact that she isn trying to explain why Luca is scum besides "he is out to get me"...



Thor seems like BS right now. everything that he says is dumb and illogical! I could see him being scum with NSG/Thor.......



Toto. sorry about my push on you. : p.....i was very convinced that Blackvoid was scum for many reasons. I do believe your a townie!


Im town reading Luca off of gut felling. he hasn't seemed scummy to me at all!!!!!

Town
Toto
Luca Blight
UC Voyager

Scum
NSG
Thor

[UC Voyager]

Like, say I vote him and there's no quick hammer and you're all convinced he's town.
Isn't that fuggin' amazing for you, huzzah you caught Thor?

hmmmmmmm.........lets just vote to see if he gets quick hammered........WHAT IF I DO GET QUICK HAMMERED?????????????are you trying to seem scummy

[UC Voyager]

I am willing to vote Thor.........we al seem to agree on that.

the only thing holding me back is the lack of defense on him. you would think the scum buddy would be fighter to keep their partner!Thor alive, or something

[UC Voyager]

Please don't vote UC. Let's stick with the plan.

which is?

[UC Voyager]

But yeah, if anything's making me paranoid about Voyager it's his lack of contribution since the heat's been off him.

Voyager, we need more input from you.

I stopped posting because I havnt seen much reason to...I have said my case on NSG and I am pretty sure her partner is Thor........

[UC Voyager]

hey ucv dont vote whatever happens unless you are scum

The day, the logic died....

[UC Voyager]

And im assuming I will hammer because that seems to be my job around here.

[UC Voyager]

If it's so funny then let's wait and see if there's a quickhammer.

I bet there won't be.

if you are scum, there won't be....and im 99% sure your scum.....ready when you guys are.

[UC Voyager]

when there is not a quick hammer on me, we will know for a fact that Thor is scum.......i don't think his partner will vote with him

[UC Voyager]

hey


lets point out that i havn't been quick hammered........enough to believe Thor is scum! because either him or me is scum now!

[UC Voyager]

hasnt Thor been saying i was his highest scum read other than Cheeky for a while. . .

[UC Voyager]

then it means it's probably NSG+UCV or NSG+You

So I guess since you haven't quick hammered that would mean it is NSG+UCV. I guess it might have been risky for you to flip so fast on UCV given you were both town-reading him and Thor was online while you both were online. So I'm just waiting to see if you quick hammer in the next day or so.

I guess You+Thor also makes sense still, as well as UCV+Thor ... But if I'm to trust my NSG scumread then that is not possible.

either that or Thor is scum......

[UC Voyager]

I'm also leaning UCV/NSG as scum too. I will post why shortly.

wtf. This entire day, you have been town reading me until Toto says i might be scum and you realize that is three to get me lynched!

[UC Voyager]

Fine.


Thor, how do you feel about the idea of the NSG wagon?

im curious because there hasn't been a quick hammer yet, so either Luca or NSG is scum

so the most likely scum teams at this point are

NSG-UCV
Luca Blight-thor

other possibilities are
UCV-Thor
Luca Blight-UCV
NSG-Thor

[UC Voyager]

Luca Blight, you need to be ready to unvote if it looks like a quick hammer is about to happen! if NSG gets t l-1, unvote FAST unless it is toto who votes!

[UC Voyager]

Luca Blight, you need to be ready to unvote if it looks like a quick hammer is about to happen! if NSG gets t l-1, unvote FAST unless it is toto who votes!

[UC Voyager]

true....i still dont want to risk a You-Thor scum team. i get really nervous town reading anyone in nlyo......because you know....tey can be really good scum!

[UC Voyager]

give me a little if you want quotes and all of the details...

i will paraphrase!

day one

Plot goes for the assemble lynch! a relatively easy lynch to go for because of how much assemble lurks! Finally, everyone sheeps that and a PR is miss lynched

day two

Thor instantly targets the strongest wagon right off the bat! he sticks with it and doesn't contribute much else! it looks like he as scum was afraid to move off of cheekyteeky because of the fact people would scum read him for it! when NSG joins, she also goes for he CheekyTeeky lynch! prooves that there could be a Thor/NSG and that it is very likely!

day three

Thor goes for the no kill. It seems like a good idea to most of us, but it actually wasn't!because we no-lynched, scum made it 3 to lynch + easier to quick hammer! Thor does that and eventually, we all sheep him!

I have a massive case on NSG. just give me a sec to find it

[UC Voyager]

Also, I'll be keeping my focus on Zemaj's slot, something seemed off about it to me, but I can't fully place my finger on it yet.

Oh no

Do you not want to play with me?

We all love you, but we know how well you can play scum.

I believe it is actually yeah, shame that Voyager couldn't have included that in his naked vote.

As if that slot couldn't get any more foggy.

They seemed to have a lot of focus on my slot, but filed to explain why.....they just said that something is off. This seems a little scummy, but i would like to see some of his other scum games to compare.

They don't expect to die Night 1?

why wouldn't they. if im correct. This was talking about Assemble, But why would He not expect to be night killed? This isn't necessarily scummy, but it makes no since. Was it just the Early game talk, or did it have a point to it

After the fake Hammer. (props to Demios. I might use that in future games). Clemency posted this. As to why? I dont know. Everything he has said before about me seemed to say he had a scum vibe from me, but yet He posted this after the fake hammer. Wouldn't he think it was a good decision if He had thought I was scum?

While I don't know if I like the idea of Voyager in LyLo(no offense), I feel like I should play a bit of devil's advocate here, so scum doesn't get another free mislynch.

While it may seem scummy, the defense that he simply didn't know he had to claim can't be discredited. Considering how new his account is, I'd assume it's his first game here.
We all had our eyes on Assemble(Well, most of us) and I was about ready to claim intent myself.

I wouldn't blame anyone for hammering Assemble, due to how he was playing so apathetically, like he was just bored scum that got caught early. The 'online but not posting' thing especially got to me.
Perhaps this was due to a lack of motivation, or other matters, but he was the best option at a time.

I don't necessarily think Voyager is innocent, but I want to create a counter-argument so if he's scum, he's taken down by facts rather than gut.

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

This defiantly makes me unsure if he is town or scum because im not sure if playing devils advocate is scummy or not TBH. It isn't like lurking which is naturally considered scummy! Im not eactly sure what to make of this. : p


overall. I think he might be scum. The fact he has done little scum hunting is very weird, but I don't want to overthink something like that. It MIGHT get a town lynched, but I wouldn't want to Ignore it and let a scum live.

Some of my early thoughts on how The NSG slot could be scum!

I'm town. It's most likely Deimos, I lost energy to play this game.

This was his reaction. It seemed fake as hell. We all agreed on that. The wagon on clemency stopped when NSG replaced him!

Xnad or Voyager.

toto is town probably because scum don rage quit like that most of the time, and im town, so it looks like he was trying to target the town

Has to be lucca, since Voyager always acts like that anyway.

Lucca is town......so once again...trying to get a miss lynch!

Vc post to fill in with links in the morning

Votecount 1.Final

Peaches (2)

Spartan117 , Assemblerotws ,

Assemblerotws (5)

Plotinus , XnadrojX , Deimos27 , Peaches , UC Voyager , L-0

Plotinus (1)

CheekyTeeky ,

Not Voting (1)

Clemency ,

Day one deadline is Tuesday October 10, 6 PM PST. (expired on 2017-10-10 18:00:00)

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch!

[/size]

Clemency wasn't voting.....HE didn't share many reads, and didn't even vote! It looks to me as if he was trying to look townie for not voting for the person who was lynched! This strikes me as scum!

i feel like i have actively ruined this game. i came in, got someone a lot of people townread lynched and will now probably get my own slot lynched. town probably would have had a better chance if i just let myself die. this isn't even to comment how on poorly i read cheeky.

anyways, here we are with our conftown dead and the promised two weeks to sort things out. hopefully we can still make something out of this. if town can win anyways i might be able to make up for it all.

Kind of hints she is giving up, but later on says that wasn't the case. Im not sure if i should scum read this, town read this, or what, but it definitely seems significant. Town should not be accepting a lynch! If town gets lynched, town loses!

for this game more than others, i think i've found myself thinking "i really want to believe this" a lot. as the deadline grew closer and closer and as we waited in twilight for the flip, i really wanted it to be true that cheeky was scum. if that wasn't true, then not only did it mean i got a townie lynched (and probably myself tomorrow), it also meant that my read on cheeky was totally off. after cheeky had flipped, i found myself really wanting to believe that thor was town. if that wasn't the case and thor wasn't town, it meant that i was getting manipulated

before i was even in the game

. i don't think i'll be wanting to believe things anymore. hopefully i can approach everything from a fresh perspective and get to the core of issues.

a no lynch here is definitely the right choice. no matter who gets killed it's going to be good in terms of information. i'd like everyone to check in and get their thoughts in first before anyone ends the day, but i'm confident this is correct.
VOTE: no lynch

votes no lynch

UNVOTE:

unvotes out of fear it will be hammered early but \/

VOTE: no lynch

revotes it and asks me to hammer it shortly after......

[UC Voyager]

i do not intend on voting......im still thinking about an thor/luca team.........but nsg/thor is 2ed most likely


either way, thor is scum.....

[UC Voyager]

Yeah Thor has to be scum if you are town, UCV. You should be voting Thor and no one else.

i thought i was tbh...

VOTE: thor

[UC Voyager]

thor is conf scum to me......

[UC Voyager]

WOW! so it is a luca blight, Thor scum team...thank you for confirming that to me! im the most informed townie in the history of non informed townies!

[UC Voyager]

obviously. you have never seen my no lynch you lose play. . .Considering this is one of y first times there.

PLUS, you guys start posting a lot early in the morning for me and really late at night. at 9:00-11:00, my brain is shutting down and it is harder to make good responses. . .If you guys were to start posting back and forth at noon, i would have responded better

[UC Voyager]

This isn't my first

It is one of my first

What do you mean I shitpost most of the time? I do from time to time, but in games, I actually post more! You should know this because you have seen me in a few games.

I was in no lynch you lose in one of my finished games. Shut up and got 2, but obv that can't be used to meta read me because all you do in Shut up and vote is massive quote walls that chances are, the other players won't understand.

[UC Voyager]

I love how Luca Blight has been lock-town me using meta for his reasoning and gut until he thinks he can pull off a UCV miss lynch!
He says my scum partner is NSG. I put Clemency at l-1 day 2 and had a decent case on the slot! The slot also voted me and was part of my wagon. How would that make since?
If I were scum. The only person who could be my partner is thor, you now.
Why would you vote your partner when a Thor miss lynch would have been 20 times easier?
This leaves Thor
Why would Thor be scum reading me throughout day 2 to now? Of me/Thor were scum. Why buss in a position like this? When we could have easily miss lynched NSG?

[UC Voyager]

I didn't say me and UCV isn't possible, but it is the least likely of the possible scenarios and I find it frustrating we're wasting time even discussing it when I'd have had no reason to play as I did if I were his partner.

Onhabe to agree with this. A Luca Blight/UCV scum team is unlikely

[UC Voyager]

I didn't say me and UCV isn't possible, but it is the least likely of the possible scenarios and I find it frustrating we're wasting time even discussing it when I'd have had no reason to play as I did if I were his partner.

Onhabe to agree with this. A Luca Blight/UCV scum team is unlikely

I have to agree.

[UC Voyager]

gosh. this just became English class

[UC Voyager]

I love how Luca Blight has been lock-town me using meta for his reasoning and gut until he thinks he can pull off a UCV miss lynch!
He says my scum partner is NSG. I put Clemency at l-1 day 2 and had a decent case on the slot! The slot also voted me and was part of my wagon. How would that make since?
If I were scum. The only person who could be my partner is thor, you now.
Why would you vote your partner when a Thor miss lynch would have been 20 times easier?
This leaves Thor
Why would Thor be scum reading me throughout day 2 to now? Of me/Thor were scum. Why buss in a position like this? When we could have easily miss lynched NSG?

1) Your first line makes no sense - I townread you before NSG did during this game day and I changed my mind about your slot on my own initiative. If you want to directly challenge any of my reasoning behind my switch then go ahead.

2) Your view on Clemency has been weird all game. Thor is still a viable partner for you, but absolutely so is Clemency/NSG.

3) You haven't voted NSG today and have instead voted Thor.

4) You couldn't have 'easily' mislynched NSG if Thor is your partner.

a majority of the players thought that NSG and a majority still do! it would have been easy to get that third vote!

What do you mean "is he acting like townie who knows sxum team?"

I put clemency to l-1 several times and was willing t lynch her! i made a case on her earlier today! i don't like to buss unless it is completely necessary, so nothing before now would point to nsg being my partner!

[UC Voyager]

I love how Luca Blight has been lock-town me using meta for his reasoning and gut until he thinks he can pull off a UCV miss lynch!
He says my scum partner is NSG. I put Clemency at l-1 day 2 and had a decent case on the slot! The slot also voted me and was part of my wagon. How would that make since?
If I were scum. The only person who could be my partner is thor, you now.
Why would you vote your partner when a Thor miss lynch would have been 20 times easier?
This leaves Thor
Why would Thor be scum reading me throughout day 2 to now? Of me/Thor were scum. Why buss in a position like this? When we could have easily miss lynched NSG?

1) Your first line makes no sense - I townread you before NSG did during this game day and I changed my mind about your slot on my own initiative. If you want to directly challenge any of my reasoning behind my switch then go ahead.

2) Your view on Clemency has been weird all game. Thor is still a viable partner for you, but absolutely so is Clemency/NSG.

3) You haven't voted NSG today and have instead voted Thor.

4) You couldn't have 'easily' mislynched NSG if Thor is your partner.

also, i have voted thor because he is conf scum to me. your also conf scum. why vote someone who is conf town?

[UC Voyager]

NSG has only been 'conf town' to you since I voted you - before that you were 'convinced' she was scum but didn't vote her.

because Thor was all ready conf scum and i was considering you as a possible scum buddy!

[UC Voyager]

Anyway, it literally is pointless debating with someone who not only raises one nonsensical point after another, but who I also know to be scum.

The only question is who your partner is, and I'm still leaning NSG on that one.


P:edit: that's just BS - according to you earlier you were convinced of a NSG/Thor scumteam - don't try to rewrite history.

But I knew for a fact that Thor was scum. Why vote outside of conf scum?

[UC Voyager]

here! i will do your little assignment you assigned to thor, but make it for me!
lets say i get thor lynched
a) NSG
b)Luca


i chose B)Luca because he is confirmed scum to me! Since he joined game, he has been trying to be friendly with us. he lock-town me and his only reason was because he had a gut feeling! He plays through pushing a NSG lynch. Thor had one vote on him. He had also been saying NSG/Thor, NSG/Thor, NSG/Thor! When i was voting for Thor, he didn't! He actually voted for me after i voted Thor and switched to UCV/NSG! huge 180! He says that im not "shit posting" enough to match my meta. In brief response, i don't shit post in most of the games i play in. this was a crappy reason because he was saying i matched my town meta earlier! the Luca slot was on my wagon instantly day 2! Spartan117 made a case, so demios repeated it with a little bit more information! Do you not find it scummy that he was scum reading Thor and town reading me, but voted for me? because he was trying to separate himself from Thor and realized he had a chance of winning by day 4! Now i still think his case on me isn't that good.


NSG
Thor and Luca should e conf scum to you! as the team possibilities have boiled down to UCV/NSG & Luca/Thor

[UC Voyager]

And I stand by my view that you are not acting like a townie who knows the identity of the scumteam - every post you make is reactionary and defensive.

yes. they kind of are! but that is because If the town realizes im town, you guys have to be scum! so im trying to make a defense to why i am not scum! If i am not scum, then the scum team is fairly obvious!


right now im under a shitton of pressure! the fate of the game rests on me! I hope i can save the town from losing!

[UC Voyager]

1) It was not only 'gut feeling' for my initial townreading of you - I gave clear reasons why I townread you in 1113.

2) Yes, I said you matched your town meta earlier (to be fair I haven't seen much of your scum meta) but during this game day you have been lurking in the shadows - that is not your town meta, and I expressed suspicion of this even when I was townreading you in 1248.

3) You can't accuse me of being scummy for doing a '180' on you when you've completely ignored the reasons I gave for changing my mind in the first place.

I also want it to be noted that NSG is *still* active on site yet is *still* avoiding this game.

The reason I find this particularly suspicious is because I just had a game where NSG replaced into a scum slot right at the very end and didn't post anything, and later said her lurking was a genuine strategy to keep the heat off of her.

LURKING!?!?!

holy shit, it isn't like i have the highest amount of posts or anything! not today, but throughout this entire game, i have been active and been contributing!

[UC Voyager]

how does a NSG/UCV scum team make since?

[UC Voyager]

The fact she won't even consider you might be scum based on a non-existent meta case and the fact you're a newb makes it increasingly likely she is your partner.

As I said, it feels like she saw me townreading you and decided to put all her eggs into the 'UCV is Town' basket, and now that basket has upended she doesn't know what to do - hence her lack of posting recently.

She wants to defend you as Town but is unable.

. . .

have you considered the fact

1
I put the slot at l-1 yesterday! and was willing to lynch the slot because there were reasons to believe Clemency was scum

2
Clemency was on my wagon instantly on day 2!

3
i have been scum reading the slot for a while! Im not the biggest fan of busing! i don't like to do it because it puts scum at disadvantage!!!

viewtopic.php?f=90&t=73770&p=9722402#p9722402
viewtopic.php?f=83&t=73733
here is my flawless scum game where i said in mafia chat that i hated bussing! idk if that really matters because of how short the game was!

[UC Voyager]

Thor,

I'm going to make this easy:

1) Suppose we lynch UCV today, I get NKed, you somehow get to choose the lynch tomorrow, gun to your head, who would you choose? Possible answers: [a) NSG, b) Luca]

For bonus town points:

2) Explain why. (extra town points if it exceeds 140 characters)

I'd flip a coin.

Let me make it simple for you - with you or I as the obvious NK - why do you think it benefits you to hear my thoughts while also allowing scum to hear them?

yes!!!!

you ant Toto o flip a coin because you know you will win!

[UC Voyager]

NSG
Thor and Luca should e conf scum to you! as the team possibilities have boiled down to UCV/NSG & Luca/Thor

I DOn't think you understand how this situation works, but thanks for the thoughts.

I understand what you are doing!


you are scum! i know this for a fact because i am a townie and if you were not a scum, i would have been quick hammered by now!


you and Luca are trying with all you can to lynch ME! because you know that will be your winning lynch!

I think Toto will see what i mean here!

you guys are trying to force my lynch because you don't need to worry about being scum read later because you will already have won! In the end, no one fits as a decent UCV!partner. there is a reason for this! because i am townie and i don't have a partner!
Thor! you pushed a CheekyTeeky Miss lynch! then you pushed a no lynch! I thought that we would still be at 4 to lynch, but i was wrong and now we are at 3 to lynch! we have sheeped you a few times and all that we have gotten out of it is dead townies!

[UC Voyager]

The fact she won't even consider you might be scum based on a non-existent meta case and the fact you're a newb makes it increasingly likely she is your partner.

As I said, it feels like she saw me townreading you and decided to put all her eggs into the 'UCV is Town' basket, and now that basket has upended she doesn't know what to do - hence her lack of posting recently.

She wants to defend you as Town but is unable.

. . .

have you considered the fact

1
I put the slot at l-1 yesterday! and was willing to lynch the slot because there were reasons to believe Clemency was scum

2
Clemency was on my wagon instantly on day 2!

3
i have been scum reading the slot for a while! Im not the biggest fan of busing! i don't like to do it because it puts scum at disadvantage!!!

viewtopic.php?f=90&t=73770&p=9722402#p9722402
viewtopic.php?f=83&t=73733
here is my flawless scum game where i said in mafia chat that i hated bussing! idk if that really matters because of how short the game was!

You do realise I know for a fact you're scum - so why are you trying to convince me NSG isn't your partner?

this isn't just for you idiot! This is trying to explain to everyone that i am not scum!

[UC Voyager]

Whatever Thor says please let's just lynch UCV today. I will take my time sorting Thor and NSG Tomorrow.

Man. I can't believe how desperate the scum team is now! They must have a feeling that Toto wont be dumb enough to lynch me. I am really happy to see this! It helps me show Toto how these people are scum!

[UC Voyager]

You need to work on your reactions as scum; they read really fake.

You are confirmed scum to me and I'm not letting you slip through my grasp.

i guess i could say the same about you!

saddly, there is a good chance that the scums death tunnel on me is going to work! and there isn't much i can do about it!

[UC Voyager]

what do you mean y fake?

[UC Voyager]

I think demios is pretty townie. His Trap idea was clever and should be used again! hopefully getting a scum next time ( :

After the fake Hammer. (props to Demios. I might use that in future games). Clemency posted this. As to why? I dont know. Everything he has said before about me seemed to say he had a scum vibe from me, but yet He posted this after the fake hammer. Wouldn't he think it was a good decision if He had thought I was scum?

It wasn't my idea to fake hammer.....I find fake hammers very ineffective ......

Can you explain how you changed your mind about fake hammers?

i actually tried them in a few games, and realized that they never work!

[UC Voyager]

1.
this game! I realized it was fake!

2.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=73520
here! I tried to fake hammer porkens who realised but claimed VT anyways, but he also said he realized it was fake and we lynched him! he was VT

3.
i guess that is it, but two fails was enough to tell me that they are not even worth considering!

[UC Voyager]

LMAO UC you get lynched in all your games, WHY are you so scummy?

IDEK

do you know how scary it is to go this far into a game!?!?!? it is scary! I think there was a few other games i made it far! one game i won endgame!



mostly because i need to adapt my play style to this site!


I made it to night 4 in the one game i linked! i was conf town for several nights to! the mafia team was desperately trying to get the Vanilla cop, but kept missing, so i got to live!

[UC Voyager]

Spoiler:

for a full list of my games \/

town lose

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=73542 (conf town! night killed night one)
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=73171
viewtopic.php?f=83&t=73890 (me and NSG 1v1 in this game![NSG was scum])
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=73520 (this is the fake hammer one! i made it to night four! i was conf town and got a scum lynched.)
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=73616 (damn quick hammer)

town win

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=73411 (one of my first games! lynched day one, but town murdered the scum team the next two days)

Mafia win

viewtopic.php?f=83&t=73733 (my first scum game! my only finished scum game. it was a flawless win!)

Mafia lose

none yet!

no third party games! : p

[UC Voyager]

I also completely refuted NSG's defence of UCV in her 1457 with my 1458 and she didn't even acknowledge it.

i have multiple tabs open working on different posts

right now

- the fact that i'm not as fast at typing these as you might be doesn't mean anything.

You're still active elsewhere on site yet I'm not seeing these posts you promised over four hours ago...

what posts? is this another one of your shitty cases that just doesn't work?

[UC Voyager]

i am going to bed soon, so don't expect me to be posting a lot until later tomorrow

[UC Voyager]

That is implying that I am scum and my partner is Luca Blight. . .

[UC Voyager]

Why would you think Luca would be my partner???

[UC Voyager]

I mean coming from UC that's like an Oscar winning performance.

what?

my reaction?

or being townie?

[UC Voyager]

I wasted almost a month on this game. And now I will lose because the town will sheep scum!Luca and Thor

[UC Voyager]

Toto

im hoping you will reread through everything!

1. why would i bus clemency day 2?
2. why would i bus her throughout today?
3. Thorś pushes are scum motivated

a ton of other things

[UC Voyager]

rip town in 40 min

[UC Voyager]

don't blame me for not trying because i have god damnit. I have given everything i could and have brought up many good points, so Im not the one at fault! i just wished that this game would have turned out better

[UC Voyager]

In case anyone isn't aware, AtE stands for 'Appeal to Emotion' - a logical fallacy where you manipulate another person's emotions to win an argument instead of using actual evidence/facts.

It's a common scumtell when they are near losing/being lynched.

i want to slap you right now....

[UC Voyager]

WOW!


the scum team just got terrified! didn't they!

I will admit some of the statments from Toto and NSG are vague, but that is besides the point!

you seem to have taken the fact i was about to give up to your advantage! calling ATE! trying to scum read someone for ATE is like scum reading someone for OMGUS! it isn't a valid point because scum don't OMGUS and ATE! I think what NSG is getting at here is that I am townie because most scum would not risk hammering like that! there is more to it

I want to repeat this if i haven't all ready said it

When Thor replaced in, the first thing he did was hop on the biggest wagon! then once it died down, he stayed on it which didn't contribute much! finally, everybody sheeped him and a townie was lynched!

You walk into today thinking you will bus your partner and make NSG the partner and win day 5, but then you realize you had a good chance of lynching me, so then you decide. HEY LETS TRy it! then people started to catch on!

[UC Voyager]

Right, so I, as scum, would go into today with the plan of bussing Thor and presumably getting UCV on my side, and then after I have achieved this to perfection I then decide to throw it down the drain and vote UCV, conforming to the guy I was banking on winning me the game that I'm scum?

This isn't a reasonable conclusion.

YES, because you thought you could win day four and not risk a 1v2 day 5!

[UC Voyager]

Right, so I, as scum, would go into today with the plan of bussing Thor and presumably getting UCV on my side, and then after I have achieved this to perfection I then decide to throw it down the drain and vote UCV, conforming to the guy I was banking on winning me the game that I'm scum?

This isn't a reasonable conclusion.

YES, because you thought you could win day four and not risk a 1v2 day 5!

But literally nothing changed to make him think that.

YES!

he found a half decent case for me
he saw you voted me all ready
Then he made his vote on me


notice how before he was town reading me all of the way and pushing a thor lynch until i voted for thor, then he turns around and votes me!

He uses "i was trying to get his partner to town read him" as an excuse, but still! I find so much BS in that! he made a 180 flip because he wanted to end the game faster

[UC Voyager]

Right, so I, as scum, would go into today with the plan of bussing Thor and presumably getting UCV on my side, and then after I have achieved this to perfection I then decide to throw it down the drain and vote UCV, conforming to the guy I was banking on winning me the game that I'm scum?

This isn't a reasonable conclusion.

YES, because you thought you could win day four and not risk a 1v2 day 5!

There would have been little to no risk in it - you had NSG and Thor locked as scum.

The real unnecessary risk would have been to go against the plan and make an enemy of the person who would have won me the game.

YES, but you wanted to end it before i started to think something was off. you knew it was only a matter of time before i started to realize what was happening so you tried to avoid that!

[UC Voyager]

Right, so I, as scum, would go into today with the plan of bussing Thor and presumably getting UCV on my side, and then after I have achieved this to perfection I then decide to throw it down the drain and vote UCV, conforming to the guy I was banking on winning me the game that I'm scum?

This isn't a reasonable conclusion.

YES, because you thought you could win day four and not risk a 1v2 day 5!

There would have been little to no risk in it - you had NSG and Thor locked as scum.

The real unnecessary risk would have been to go against the plan and make an enemy of the person who would have won me the game.

YES, but you wanted to end it before i started to think something was off. you knew it was only a matter of time before i started to realize what was happening so you tried to avoid that!

Right, so my reponse to fearing you might in the future suspect me is to vote you and confirm to you that I'm scum...

If you are trying to lynch me, how are you risking "confirming yourself as scum". YOU DON'T

[UC Voyager]

. thus, what i can explain is how why they're saying something is scummy.

Yes, this is what I mean. Tell my why scum!thor has been saying the things he's been saying or not saying today.

easy

He need to make a case on me, but he doesn't want to actually case me, so he brings in definitions and stuff like that! He avoids pointing out the scummy stuff i have done! It is honest;y a good scum stratify, but not the best for lylo

[UC Voyager]

i will make some posts tomorrow. im little busy atm

[UC Voyager]

I have seen NSG post about tone as town.
NSG has played with me the most out of the people here. I have only seen her flip scum a few times so I'm not so sure on her scum play.

This is the first time I have seen Thor in a game. So I'm not sure how to meta read him

I have only seen Luca as town and he is generally a lot better at coming up with cases.

[UC Voyager]

Let's say as scum I vote Thor without thinking and them am like 'shit, this will clear UCV/NSG! What have I done!', surely I'd have mulled it over and been like 'Oh wait, UCV is my meal ticket here, as long as he's on side then all's good'.

Do you really think I would have thought 'Shit, abandon plan! All missiles fire at UCV! Go go go!'?

Basically Toto it feels like you're so reluctant to scumread UCV based on meta (as I said I understand this as I made the same mistake) that you're willing to twist the situation any way possible into me being scum - even though for me to be scum I'd have to be playing wacky as f*ck.

Yes you would. You were thinking it would be the easier move.

I have posted my scum game, so you can try to see my scum meta. I actually want to read over it to see what I find

[UC Voyager]

Here is my meta scum....


As scum, I talk about statistics a lot. I make very small posts that look like they are useful . I come up with very step by step plans. Order of operations. Then I use my statistics to make a case.

A lot of this is assuming what i would do of that game didn't end when it did.

[UC Voyager]

In fact I will share it as I believe it bears resemblance to the situation we have here. In the game I will show you, I was the main player pushing MathBlade's lynch, but basically when I realised there was no resistance to said wagon and Math wasn't even defending himself that it didn't make sense for them to be scum. Math actually became easily my strongest townread and about half of the Town went on to suspect me of being their partner as a result.

Spoiler: Initial pushing/voting

Actually I feel comfortable enough putting Math at L-1 for now.

VOTE: Math

Needless to say no-one should hammer without first declaring intent.

If Math is convincing enough in his defence I think the only person I would consider switching to today would probably be Bory.

I disagree that Ach asking about powers must mean he has one - esecially given your version of events which would mean this results in him being scum roleblocker. Why would a newbie so openly ask about a power when they are a scum PR, especially so early in the game? It seems counter-intuative to me, and it's a real reach that most of your theory is built upon.

I also don't like how Math is lining up Brafin for the lynch if Chip flips Town - Brafin also pushed Para's lynch after his claim and did the same towards Chip. As you accept Para as confirmed Town, surely you should already have a big FOS towards Brafin for the same reason? If you're the doctor, Math, then now really is the time to hard-claim. I highly doubt it, however.

And your reads list at the end is terrible and ill-considered. You say '

Luca seems to follow the wagon of the day

' - is that purely because I voted you? When I pushed Chip he wasn't the wagon of the day, and when I voted Brafin likewise. The wagon of the day when I replaced in was clearly Tor (at least according to Brafin) who I haven't voted at all.

I'm fine with keeping my vote where it is.

And your reasoning for Sheep being 'probably town' doesn't make sense.

You also said he was 'obvtown' earlier but have never explained why, no matter how often you're asked.

Here's an example of Math saying something and promising to explain later, but failing to fulfill that promise:

Spoiler:

After looking through his ISO I've got a very bad feeling about sheepsaysmeep. He's checked a lot of the scum boxes, especially since we seem to be reading Paradise as scum. Sheepsaysmeep hasn't contributed many of his own reads, but he has piggybacked onto the reads of others (unless they have involved Paradise as scum), he has downplayed suspicion on Paradise, and he jumped at the only other player who has raised any suspicion. He has done this all while putting in a bunch of a fluff posts that have made him seem active.

Sheepsaysmeep hasn't yet contributed anything unique to this game. In post 33, post 91, post 119, and post 122 he asks people directly for their reads without providing anything on his own. For comparison, he has just as many posts where he talks about any of his own reads, and nearly all of them are reactionary. Post 55 is the only post, other than jumping on my bandwagon (more on this later in this post), where he talks about seeing anyone as scummy. The one line of reasoning doesn't strike me as a strong read, but yet this is the one "you may be scum" post he's made, and it was made after our most experienced player had already quoted Chip and asked about his vote for me. In post 113 he mainly piggybacks off of James' easy-to-digest list. He also doesn't talk at all about who he thinks as scummy, only whom he reads (or knows) are town. I find the line "kind of looks like sheeping off of other people's reads" very funny considering the argument I'm making. His one unique read in this post is, of course, a "gut town read" on Paradise. Post 37 is the one post where he posts his proactive reads. One of them is defending Paradise and the other one seems to me like you're trying to buddy up to most experienced player and get him off your trail. Another post that concerns me on the Paradise issue is post 67, where you downplay Paradise's action "as a small thought for future reference." Also note that in post 87 and in post 113 he ends the post with something along the lines of "I'll post more later" and then doesn't follow through.

There are a couple things that bother me about his vote for me. In post 37, which again is the only post where he makes any proactive reads, he claims to have not seen anything significant from anyone outside of MathBlade and his buddy Paradise. However, in literally the next post, post 38, he piggybacks onto MathBlade's read and declares that my behavior has been scummy enough to warrant a vote. This is just an odd inconsistency that leads me to believe, as he said in post 31, "looks like a blatant bandwagon to me." I think he saw that others saw my initial aphix vote as suspicious and got a little excited that a townie was the first one to fall under scrutiny, especially since one of the players suspecting me was the experienced player that I think he wants to buddy up to.
Yes, I get that I did the same thing, but I explained why and have switched my vote to a real read. Sheep, on the other hand, has kept his vote for me long after many others have moved on. I think this is because there hasn't been a non-Paradise bandwagon to jump onto.

So many of his posts are just general statements that contribute nothing. Post 41, post 73, post 76, post 87, and post 125 all contribute nothing. I don't necessarily think these things are particularly scummy themselves, but I think he is making them to try and seem like he's active and participating when in reality, as I've pointed out above, he's really not.

I also find it interesting that the one time someone scumread him, he got a little defensive. This happened in post 71. Well here you go, sheepsaysmeep, I scumread you and backed it up with a little evidence. What do you have to say?

While I like the effort put here I disagree with it and I still think you are scum.

Will explain when it isn't midnight.

He never did explain why he thought Jod was scum, nor why he disagreed with her post. The next time he even mentions her is in his God awful 243 post where he throws shade on most of the Town, and then in 272 he suddenly has a '

light town lean

' on Jod, without ever explaining that massive jump in his reading of her.

And since his 272 where he said he had a light town lean on Jod, he never mentioned her again until his post just above where he says she 'feels icky' - again unexplained.

Complete inconsistency in his reading of Jod this game, none of which has been explained.

I'm reading math as town for a few reasons:
1. He's trying really hard to scumhunt. Maybe this is just noob thinking, but it seems to me that scum would appear to be scumhunting but not trying that hard.
2. He's never hopped all over the place and scumread everyone. (And yes, I'm realizing that that is scummy behavior that I've done. )
3. He's never shown any amount of high association with anyone. While non-association with one or two might be a scumread, I find it hard to believe that scum would NOT try and ally themselves with town players.

I haven't seen him trying 'really hard' to scumhunt. Number 2 is something any decent scum player would not do - if you scumread someone who is Town is gives them reason to suspect you back, and obviously scum want to avoid as much suspicion as possible. Number 3 is a bit of a null point as well - to openly try and buddy town players (especially at the IC in a Newb game) would in itself raise its own suspicion.

I'd also like you to clear up your view on Jod, Math.

Why did you disagree with Jod in 141 and why did you think she was scum at this point?

Why did this turn to a 'light town lean' in 272?

Ans why did it change to her feeling 'icky' in 731?

@mb
saying im not getting attention isnt a good reason to make me your strongest townread
scum like to stay hidden
ive just been inactive recently so i should be at null not town

Again just call it gut if you like but you're Town pinging me.

How can you call him 'obvtown' based on a gut read?

Surely gut reads are by definition

not

obvious - because they can't be explained easily.

It kinda is.

Not a single person has mentioned a suspicion of sheep.

If sheep were scum one person no matter how ridiculed in a game this small would talk about the slot. Scum don't care about what sheep is posting so there are no Town or scum reads.

Because of how little attention sheep is getting it's almost like a group consensus sheep is town. This sometimes happens in games. It is a weird social convention that happens in games. In a large or a theme they'd need a poke but an active player like sheep with no attention is probably town.

Scum need to push a mislynch here and trying to push a not suspected player is harder.

Well, obviously someone has mentioned a suspicion of Sheep (you were just posting about it).

I think it's more a case of Sheep not looking as scummy as certain others, therefore he gets less attention. My slot has also not been suspected much this game for the same reasons.

No there really hasn't been. Penguin has been the first person to seriously mention something in a while. It's more of an ebb and flow thing. In contrast you have been up and then forgotten up and then forgotten. You have lots of little pings of suspicion.

Either way, I think it's a pretty absurd reason to say someone is obvtown.

It also doesn't really ring true as your 'obvtown' comment came immediately after Jod's case against Sheep.

It's like you townread him for not being suspected, despite the fact someone literally just made a post detailing their considerable suspicion of him.

I am not getting into a shitting contest with you.

And you're just not understanding me. Me repeating it will do no good.

And yes you're lynch shopping and I have faith Penguin will see it.

Bascially your explanation makes no sense and you know it.

And no I'm not '

lynch shopping

' - I've given valid reasons for everything I've done in this game, and your '

Luca follows the wagon of the day

' is complete lazy bullshit - I've been the main one pushing your wagon, as was the case with Brafin and Chip. The reasoning for suspecting all three of you I made patently clear.

Spoiler: Sudden 180/townreading Math

UNVOTE:

I'll explain in a bit.

I haven't had time to read much of the recent posts but I'll quickly explain why I unvoted.

No problem. I'm not in a rush, but we need to be aware that it is less than 26 hours until night, so if for some reason we don't lynch MB, we need to decide on a new wagon and push it through pronto. I feel going ahead with this lynch is probably the best strategy now, but will wait for PA...

Toranga Toranga Toranga.

Picked it for you.

Lol you probably should take that quote out of your signature...

I enjoy my scum games.

I also enjoy my town ones. (Which this one is)

I just happen to be better as scum.

This felt kind of genuine to me and caused me to look at Math's meta, and he does seem to get wagoned a lot as Town while playing similarly to how he has here, whereas as scum he seems to do a bit better.

I thought at first Math was faking the whole '

Go Town

' thing and trying to play it extra cool, but I think scum at some point would have cracked here. Add to this the fact that I can't think of one legitimate partner for Math in this game and I no longer have confidence in this lynch.

VOTE: Bory

I like my vote a lot more here. My gut feeling is actually a Bory/Tor scumteam (I might get to the details of that later) but as I said earlier, Tor has given me some reassurance where Bory has given me none, and he needs to step up if he wants to get my vote off of him.

Jod, we're not lynching Math today so if you want Bory instead of Tor, vote as such.

Sheep, Math was at L-1 for ages and was not even defending himself, nor was anyone defending him. He was accepting of his lynch - and while this could have been faked, I do think scum would have cracked and tried to save their skin at some point. Math is also a decent scum player - would he just sink quietly away to a D1 death as scum? I don't think so. Would he be lynched Day 1 in such circumstances as Town? From his meta, quite possibly. He said he is a better scum player than Town and I believe that.

I feel sure if I hadn't unvoted he would have been lynched.

And I think the partner thing is relevant - scum aren't going to allow their partner to be lynched on D1 if at all possible, and it's not like Math was in a position where he needed bussing - he looked scummy, but there were other targets that could easily have been pushed.

You could argue I might make sense as his partner as I saved him from being lynched, but obviously I know this isn't the case.

I also townread this a bit:

Luca there is t enough time for a Bory lynch.

That is a vanity wagon.

Toranga.

You scumread Toranga vote there.

Following my unvote of him, Math seems annoyed I chose to vote Bory over Tor.

His scumread of Tor feels genuine.

I've thought about this a lot and I've come to a decision. UC Voyager has seemed very strange to me as I'm sure he has to everyone else, but I've looked through some of his other posts and he carries the same posting style (a lot of exclamation points, capitalizations, etc.) throughout all of his games. He is a pretty young guy and I think some of his immaturity shows through in his posting.
MathBlade is just oozing scum to me. Their posts just reek with manipulation and their interactions with Luca on D2 just have such a coordinated feel to them. The story of a scum MathBlade just makes so much sense, especially with Luca as a partner.

They pushed for Toranaga who is an experienced player who suspected them, but when they started to face resistance to a Toranaga lynch, Bory conveniently poked his head out and started suspecting them too.

Knowing Bory would be a much easier lynch do to his lurking, they pushed for his lynch

. Today, with only four needed to lynch, they pushed for Chip (who also started suspecting MathBlade and is also an experienced player) thinking (correctly) that I'd fall in line quickly due to my earlier suspicions. Now that I've continued to suspect them, they're setting up my possible lynch for tomorrow.
At the beginning of the game I talked about how I'm not afraid of putting myself out there, and that's still true. I don't want to be wrong, but I'm not afraid of it. I'm going to make a call here. I know if UC Voyager gets lynched and flips scum I'm likely next for this, but I truly believe that MathBlade is scum with Luca as the best possibility for his partner.

VOTE: MathBlade

I also want to point out the bolded isn't an accurate summary of what happened - Math wanted a Tor lynch and not a Bory one, despite the fact Bory had at that point suspected and been voting Math for some time. When I switched from Math to Bory, Math was annoyed at my switch - They still wanted a Tor lynch. Only when Bory stepped in at the end with his strange doc theory did Math actually approve of the Bory lynch over Tor - note at this point Math wasn't in danger of being lynched and had no reason to suddenly change opinion as scum.

Jod, from my point of view I find it highly unlikely Math is scum, and I guess if you knew I was Town you'd be more inclined to think the same? Your Mathscum theory seems to be based on him being my partner.

I was the one pushing Math's lynch on D1, and a couple of years ago I would have probably seen it through as I used to suffer from confbias myself, but my experience and rationality told me something wasn't right with the lynch. I could still be wrong and if I am then I've made a terrible mistake, but I trust my read on this one.

I know once you get into your head that x and y are scum it's really hard to take a step back and consider you might be wrong - this is what makes it hard for me to see if your behaviour is scummy or just a Townie who is confbiasing.

I was in that game
You didn't play the same play style you did here

[UC Voyager]

1. That is some reachy shit, surely you can see that? You're basically saying I made a plan of bussing Thor and getting UCV on my side, and then despite the plan going perfectly I get cold feet and ditch it just in case UCV might happen to change his mind in the future, even though there is no sign of that happening. Do you not think I would have considered what was needed to achieve victory before making the game-defining decision to bus my partner? You're basically saying just because there is some slim chance I could have an ulterior motive, my point isn't valid. You could literally say the same about any point every made in this game - you can always twist things to suit your agenda/what you want to believe.

2. Did you even read my #3? It's no good saying you've been considering something if there is nothing to back it up - we can only go on what we read in-thread.

Perhaps you can walk me through your thought process behind considering both me and UCV as scum before arriving at your conclusion that UCV must be Town and me scum?

Can you at least answer this bit?

You say you've considered I might be Town and UCV scum but we've seen no evidence of this, so please walk us through your thought-process there.

I agree you are a good player.

So, if you are town put yourself in my less talented shoes.

I can't pretend I can read you.
I can't pretend I can read UCV (just look at his other games).

That leaves me NSG and Luca which you have not helped me sort. I'm not saying you are bad. I'm telling you look scummy because you are refusing to help me sort people out. Why?

I have said why Thor and Luca is scum.

[UC Voyager]

due to factors that i presume i cannot discuss, i can't do this as specifically as i had hoped that i could. what i can say is that ucv plays a lot more formally as scum - he makes an active effort to look towny. to me, it's incredibly obvious when it happens and it's incredibly obvious that it's not here this game. even if i was scum i wouldn't do such a hard defense of my partner - if me and ucv were scum i could still have won even if he was lynched today, but in the actual scenario of us both being town, town loses the game if he's lynched. that's why it matters to me so much.

This meta argument is really weak to say he is definitely Town.

Consider the fact UCV was a complete newb when he first joined this game, and is now fairly-experienced as he has played in a lot of games between now and then - do you not think his meta has changed since then? I know my meta changed drastically after playing a few games on this site. It's not something where you can concretely say he is Town given the circumstances - and I would argue he has been a bit more 'formal' during this game day than he was earlier in the game when he was a complete beginner.

How could you have won if UCV was lynched today if you were partners? This is also groundless. You put all your eggs in the basket of him being town after I townread him, and now you're in so deep you can't back out of it.

Please stop avoiding the question and walk me through your thought-process behind considering me and UCV as Town/scum and deciding he is Town and me scum.

My meta has changed and my playstyle in this game has. this is one of the longest games i have been in!

[UC Voyager]

I can't pretend I can read you.
I can't pretend I can read UCV (just look at his other games).

Okay...

That leaves me NSG and Luca which you have not helped me sort. I'm not saying you are bad. I'm telling you look scummy because you are refusing to help me sort people out. Why?

You're refusing to communicate with me on the UCV case - does that make you scummy?
This is a silly argument, both of us are simply more focused on the argument we subjectively feel is more clear.
Also, unlike you, I *have* been discussing both Luca and NSG scum, and literally just pointed out some pretty major points about NSG, one of which you managed to misread in context, and, when I corrected you, didn't decide to follow up - then you complain that I'm not helping you enough.

I really feel the roadblock is on your end, I'm saying a LOT over here.
If you're missing it all you need to try to help me figure out why you're missing it.

i don't scumread toto at all

[UC Voyager]

due to factors that i presume i cannot discuss, i can't do this as specifically as i had hoped that i could. what i can say is that ucv plays a lot more formally as scum - he makes an active effort to look towny. to me, it's incredibly obvious when it happens and it's incredibly obvious that it's not here this game. even if i was scum i wouldn't do such a hard defense of my partner - if me and ucv were scum i could still have won even if he was lynched today, but in the actual scenario of us both being town, town loses the game if he's lynched. that's why it matters to me so much.

This meta argument is really weak to say he is definitely Town.

Consider the fact UCV was a complete newb when he first joined this game, and is now fairly-experienced as he has played in a lot of games between now and then - do you not think his meta has changed since then? I know my meta changed drastically after playing a few games on this site. It's not something where you can concretely say he is Town given the circumstances - and I would argue he has been a bit more 'formal' during this game day than he was earlier in the game when he was a complete beginner.

How could you have won if UCV was lynched today if you were partners? This is also groundless. You put all your eggs in the basket of him being town after I townread him, and now you're in so deep you can't back out of it.

Please stop avoiding the question and walk me through your thought-process behind considering me and UCV as Town/scum and deciding he is Town and me scum.

My meta has changed and my playstyle in this game has. this is one of the longest games i have been in!

See NSG - he even admits it himself.

Surely the fact his Mafia experience has multiplied since being in this game means his meta has to be taken with a very large pinch of salt?

It is not something that is justifiable to base a concrete townread on at this stage of the game.

im saying it adjusted! aka. i have been following my town meta and changing my game style based on my town meta. now your admiting tha tim playing some meta, and considering I mostly play town and you can see this adjusting, im playing my town meta

[UC Voyager]

. It would be like using meta from my first game to read m

but have you notied a change in my play style

for only having on other scum game, there is no way my gam style would have changed this much in one game

[UC Voyager]

. It would be like using meta from my first game to read m

but have you notied a change in my play style

for only having on other scum game, there is no way my gam style would have changed this much in one game

You are a more experienced player now so the way you play will be different from how you started this game, regardless of alignment.

Even if you haven't played much as scum, seeing how others play will influence you etc.

what do you mean. "influence me"?

i don't really care for trying to explaining to scum why im not scum

[UC Voyager]

. thus, what i can explain is how why they're saying something is scummy.

Yes, this is what I mean. Tell my why scum!thor has been saying the things he's been saying or not saying today.

for a stressful lylo situation he's been arguing a lot of definitions and semantics. unlike me, ucv and luca, it doesn't seem like he's actively trying to convince people on anything or sell someone his case. he also seems to have avoided commenting on a lot of the mechanical solving talk that we've all gone over regarding the scumteams. it doesn't seem like he's as invested in solving this game as everyone else, and to me that seems like he doesn't have any solving to do - he already knows everyone else's alignments.

Thor, can you vote NSG? Also please reply to this if you haven't already.

why? what difference does it make?

[UC Voyager]

Tell me why we shouldn't lynch UCV.

probably to help him decide who is scum or something. there is a lot of pressure on him because he has the final say, so he doesn't want to make the wrong choice. : p

[UC Voyager]

Toto, who is your strongest Townread out of the four of us?

Spartaan117

[UC Voyager]

toto, why do you think that having it
NSG vs Thor is better than
UCV vs Thor?

[UC Voyager]

You are all very scummy at this point

No, actually we aren't.
You're also explicitly asking for everyone to try to present scummy reasoning on everyone else and then not analyzing it - which is why you're getting caught in the doldrums.

lol. that is one way to get the conf town on your side.

[UC Voyager]

I thought Luca was voting for NSG. : p
Guess not.

[UC Voyager]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: NSG

Just because my vote on UCV is useless as it stands.

I've genuinely been trying to consider NSG might be Town but she really hasn't given me any reason to lately. As I said, if she's Town then it's one of the worst/most bizarre cases of conbiasing I've ever seen.

VOTE: NSG
thank you. gg

[UC Voyager]

you didn't ruin it. yall should have lynched me earlier on. : p

[UC Voyager]

I got terrified when Thor started to buss, but when people started to say that a UCV/Thor scum team wasn't possible, i started to calm down. then i realized we won no matter which of us got lynched.

[UC Voyager]

well played UCV, you carried the scum team

thank you.

This was actually the first time i rolled scum. I was starting to regret the lolhammer, but then it all turned out fine some how

[UC Voyager]

It feels like one of the more bitter defeats I've had as Town as we were so close to piecing together the puzzle. I didn't particularly townread Thor at all - if NSG had a more open minded approach to LYLO I'm sure Town would have won the game.

I don't mean this as something to beat yourself up over - just something to learn from.

I was thinking more and more when we reaching the end that the town had a high chance of figuring it out. There were a few things to point out

When the wagon on me formed day two, everybody town read me because no one was resisting my lynch, so unless my partner was Plot/Peaches, i wasn't scum. Peaches was town, so Thor would be the person to make the most since to be my partner!

Im not sure if i carried the scum team. Thor did do some things to. If he hadn't start busing, yall might have figured it out.

[UC Voyager]

UCV I'm deathtunneling you on D1 on all my games

meh. it happens to me 50% of the time anyway

[UC Voyager]

hey. it all works. lol. imagine i roll scum again.

no, if your going to deathtunnel me, im probably going ot be a Town PR like cop or somthing

[UC Voyager]

fun fact

I committed every night kill and hammered every day

[UC Voyager]

Town Slayer

lol. he wasn't lying.

[UC Voyager]

another fun fact
until Spartan117 flipped out on me, i was considering letting him live
BECAUSE
1. he was town reading me
2. was going to help me push a lynch
3. part of my plan

MY plan did not really work out. : p


my plan day two formed

Lynch XandrojX/Blackvoid/Toto
because of this, I would be able to push Clemency/NSG as scum for a lot of reasons. I had a case built up, but when i wasn't ale to get Blackvoid lynched, i got stressed because i had to rethink everything!

[UC Voyager]

All the mislynches UCV has sufferered probably seem worth it now as they saved his bacon in this one.

ikr

[UC Voyager]

im thinking i will try the noob queue! despite the fact i almost always get tired of waiting in it. most noob games, i replace into!

[UC Voyager]

To be honest I hadn't even begun to process fully who was UCV's partner yet, but NSG's refusal to answer my questions proved too much for me in the end.

yea. I had to check twice before voting because i didn't want to accidentally not hammer and confirm myself

[UC Voyager]

Town Slayer

fun fact
in scum thread, i switched it up to some other klingon phrase that meant somthing similar

[UC Voyager]

i also don't mind if you post the scum thread

[UC Voyager]

this is sad. honestly I was about to push Voyager, but hey, got murdered.

great game, though, specially this last day. seriously, it was crazy good to watch.

lol. i was one step away from not killing you and killing toto in stead

[UC Voyager]

Nah I won't death tunnel you, but I can see through your role PM color now.

what does this mean?