Open 670: Near Vanilla (Over)

[nebula]

Hi. As a counterpoint to BlueBloodedToffee's opinion, you should not lynch me.

Thx.

[nebula]

VOTE: Music Box

Everyone seems to be making votes for silly reasons; however, you are the only one who made a vote with no other context provided. Why is that?

Also.

UNVOTE:

[nebula]

Why hasn't the wagon on Nebula grown?

Why do you want it to grow when the premise of your argument was shown to be invalid?

[nebula]

Because I think it's a fantastic wagon regardless of Hellfire's replace out. That was just an added bonus.

Why do you believe that it is a fantastic wagon?

[nebula]

Any starting wagon is fantastic. It just happens to be you this game.

Why do you believe that any starting wagon is fantastic?

[nebula]

Information.

Why are you trying to look busy?

How else would you suggest that I attempt to understand the rationale behind an action? I most likely would not have to keep asking questions if you were simply forthcoming with your reasoning. Your one worded response would lead me to ask "What information are you hoping to derive from a starting wagon"; however, you do not need to answer since I do not expect a helpful response.

[nebula]

@Nebula

– Couple of questions

1. Why did you unvote Music Box but not vote LUV when you were pointing out LUV for something tha t looks like you are calling suspect behavior?
2. Do you think there is isn’t a potential to get information from an early game (basically RVS) wagon?

Hi.

1.) I unvoted Music Box because I had no reason to have a vote on her. That was done by my predecessor. I haven't voted for Lil Uzi Vert because:
a.) He has yet to respond to my question.
b.) I do not really have a basis at this point to believe that I should be voting for him.
2.) I do not see what information can be gained simply from starting a wagon on anyone without basis.

Note: I looked up RVS in the MafiaWiki, and the third paragraph mentions "a wagon on someone may cause them to panic." So, perhaps there is some utility to a random wagon, but why not simply start questioning other players?

[nebula]

Hey didn't ask you why you're inquiring into his thoughts but why you are trying to look busy.

Hi.

Did my response not address this? Apologies if I was not clear, but I was inferring that I was not trying to look busy; rather, I was asking questions to gain a better understanding of his thoughts on why my wagon was "fantastic." If asking questions comes across as me attempting to look busy, than how else would you suggest I proceed?

Isn't it obvious that a an early wagon can draw out information? Whether it's helpful or not it's still information.

It is apparently not obvious to me. Was this meant to be rhetorical?

Do you think early wagons are detrimental to town?

Aside from the fact that they are statistically more likely to be on someone who is town, I cannot think of why they would be.

[nebula]

And now that Hellfire's ban has been retroactively reversed I'm not moving my vote as that replace-out is scummy.

I am not sure how this makes sense if the replace-out was not voluntary.

[nebula]

So you don’t believe in voting early is a benefit to the game and Town’s ability to form reads? What is your Mafia experience (aka are you an Alt)?

This is my first game of this style of Mafia. I have read the MafiaWiki, and I have played many games with other people in real life.

Potentially tons. Especially info that can be mined down the line when players (especially the wagonee) have flipped.

Okay. There may be a potential ton of information to be gained. I stated that I do not see it; which I do not.

Statistically any wagon in the game is more likely to be on scum than Town. That’s how an informed Minority works. But the fact that you can’t think of any real reason why they are detrimental makes me wonder why you are so opposed to early voting.

I assume you mean the inverse are there are fewer scum players than Town players. I also have not expressed opposition to early voting.

How exactly do you know that replace-out was not voluntary? I had assumed so given the Ban but the quick reversal (which is a first to my knowledge) puts that assumption in serious doubt.

The replacement statement from Creature came 31 minutes after Hellfire Missile's last post and 17 minutes after the original ban announcement. One should logically conclude that, due to the temporal proximity of the ban announcement to the replacement statement, and Hellfire Missile's recent participation, that his replace-out was not voluntary.

[nebula]

@Sesq This is where the logic is. I snipped out all of the non important stuff.

Isn't it obvious that a an early wagon can draw out information? Whether it's helpful or not it's still information.

It is apparently not obvious to me.

Was this meant to be rhetorical?

Do you think early wagons are detrimental to town?

Aside from the fact that they are statistically more likely to be on someone who is town,

I cannot think of why they would be.

I bolded the contradiction. This is why I say he knows exactly why early wagons wold draw out information.

One second he says it's not obvious. Next he's saying he doesn't see or cannot think of why they would be detrimental.

So if they're not detrimental how is it not obvious that they could bring about something useful for town?

Hawk. If something is not detrimental to a party does that automatically imply that it provides some sort of utility? I am confused as to the link between the two.

For example, though in no way directly related, for most people - those with allergies aside - domestic dust provides no detriment, though maybe nuisance. However, what benefit do those people derive from domestic dust? The answer, of course, is nothing.

[nebula]

nebula - This guy is interesting, to say the least. At first he looked pretty suspicious but after looking over his responses they're fairly solid. The one thing that sticks out is his inconsistencies about early wagons, which I would partially attribute to him being at the butt of it.

Oh, hi, Sesk. Could you point out the inconsistencies, and I can try to explain them?

I think you are town.

[nebula]

Apologies, Sesq. My computer's autocorrect does not like the spelling of your name. I have added it to the dictionary.

[nebula]

@Nebula you are correct that some things that aren't nesscarily detrimental aren't nesscarily positive however don't ask redundant questions when you know that there is Utility to early wagons.

Fair point, and I will concede. I should have used past tense in that statement.

Also to answer your question, The psychological component from someone being questioned versus someone being pressured and possibly lynched creates a different dynamic and reaction. That's why starting and wagon versus simply starting questioning are different and produce different results

To question this - though perhaps this may not be the place and time - I can understand the intent of the psychological component, and the potential results from reaction. However, does not the fact that the majority of the player base understanding that we are in RVS, and thus votes amounting to almost nil in terms of sincerity, negate the intended outcome?

[nebula]

So far, I believe that Sesq and Hawk are town. I would like to see a response from MagnaofIllusion before I decide as to his alignment.

[nebula]

Anyone voting my townreads is getting murdered in this game. Fuck logic.

Hi, Toto. What are your townreads at this point? I'm also curious as to how you have arrived at them.

[nebula]

Toto and Riley town.

Lil and sesq scum.

unvote

VOTE: Lil

Hi, Lowell.

It would be helpful for me if you could provide the reasoning behind your assertions of town Toto and Riley and scum Lil Uzi Vert and Sesq. I am particularly interested in your reasoning behind Sesq being scum, as it runs contrary to my own opinion.

[nebula]

Absolutely you have, at least implicitly. You actively unvoted because “you didn’t have a good reason to be voting”. In the early stages there aren’t ever going to be “good reasons” outside of moving the game forward and looking for reactions.

Thank you for your response. I do not plan to respond to it in its entirety, as I believe that some points will result in needless debate without resolution. I do understand where you are coming from in the above quote, and I agree that I should probably change the way that I am approaching this game in some aspects.

[nebula]

Hellfire Missile was replaced due to the ban.

Thank you, Creature. MagnaofIllusion, this should bring one point of discussion to rest.

[nebula]

VOTE: hawk

Magna inspired me to read hawk's iso. Agree.

Hi, Lowell. Do you plan to respond to my question regarding your reads?

[nebula]

CONFIRM MAFIA GOON,,

Hi, KainTepes.

I do not believe that you are actually a Mafia Goon, and I am assuming that you made that statement in an effort to appear more "town." What are your thoughts on the game so far?

[nebula]

@nebula, stop nagging me. my reads are infallible. Except in cases when they fail. Which never happens. Check my meta, I've never been wrong. Only you have, if you check my meta and find me being wrong. That's wrong.

Lil is gut. He's too safe. Sesq reads like he wants to coast and pretend to look helpful. I forget who else you asked about.

Hi, Lowell. I asked also about Toto and Riley being town.

I appreciate the humor.

[nebula]

This sounds to me like you admitting you can't battle said points. My suspicions are growing.

Hi Sesq. Quite the opposite in actuality. However, as I explicitly said, MagnaofIllusion would have likely been able to articulately continued the debate; and, with no provable result, it could have dragged on causing an unnecessary distraction. Given that one of the points was entirely based on the utility of an action, and the other point was in regard to the replace out, I felt it in the best interest to be forthcoming and explain that I did not intend to debate on those two items. Fortunately, Creature was able to put one of the points to rest, which I stated and MagnaofIllusion agreed.

What I find somewhat disconcerting is that you are trying to utilize this as a vehicle to paint my actions as suspicious - of which you now indicate are growing, but have not previously indicated were established given that you thought my "responses were fairly solid." Perhaps I was too haste in my town read of you based on your willingness to engage with me yesterday.

Where am I coasting along, and couldn't the same argument be made for LUV?

I believe Lowell has previously voted for Lil Uzi Vert, so this is probably not the argument that you wish to make.

So some soft townleans and a scumlean so far from what I've done.

Hi, Hawk. Would you share with us who your soft townleands and scum lean are at this point. I am making the assumption that MusicBox is your scumlean given that is where your vote is; however, I am not sure if you are referring to Lowell given the previous statement about "mindlessly Sheeping."

[nebula]

I do agree that with this point it was kind of bunk, but your choice of vocabulary comes off as scummy. That said, it's more of a gut read at this point, which I have previously stated to be the case. In terms of logic you do present good points with rather unfortunate framing, but my gut is still going off like mad. But your worst part here is your last sentence, "Perhaps I was too haste in my town read of you based on your willingness to engage with me yesterday". First of all, I WAS engaging with you with that post, and with this very post as well. Engagement is also fairly NAI.

Hi, Sesq. Could you point to what vocabulary I used that came across as scummy? It would be helpful for me to understand that.

Also, I believe that you misinterpreted my last sentence. I was stating that I read you as town yesterday based on the fact that you engaged with me - which you now point out should not be indicative of alignment. I was stating that I may have been to haste in that read given the basis of your suspicion. I believe that to not be genuine.

VOTE: Sesq

[nebula]

I think you're accusing our former interaction of not being geniune, which I've learned is a buzzword you can apply to nearly anyone's town-looking interactions and make them look scummy for it.

To clarify, which I believe I have already stated, I believe that you using my - now expressed as logical - response to MagnaofIllusion as a vehicle for your suspicion on me is not genuine. If that is a buzzword that Mafia-aligned players have a tendency to use, I apologize, but it does not negate the fact that I do not believe it to be genuine.

Why do I believe it to be disingenuous? Because, as an argument it is very weak - as you have pointed out. The sole purpose of it appears to be trying to portray me as Mafia, despite the lack of underlying substance. To answer a previous question - yes, I am voting you because I believe you to be Mafia. MagnaofIllusion has indicated that votes are useful for analysis, to which I conceded I would change my play.

[nebula]

And....I slipped. Oops. That bit was getting rough.

[nebula]

You are f'ing scum though.

[nebula]

Nebbie, or Nebs, is cool. I like your reads.

I've only played one other game with Lowell and he was lurky/sheepy in that. I would like him to actually provide some content this time around.

Also, I cbf'd to make any more walls. God, I hate walls.

P-edit

F'you.

[nebula]

You're wasting your effort on me, but I'll entertain it. I actually did, in an annoying way, clarify why you are scum. You made an opportunistic hop on to a seemingly newb slot based on admittedly bad logic. Also, never ever heard of the "genuine" thing as a buzzword. Opportunistic, yes. But not "genuine."

It's cool, though. We can still be friends.

[nebula]

Hawk and I are forming a townbloc. I think KainTepes can join. By association, Frederick is also allowed in. Whoever else wants to apply may do so via PM (don't do that btw, you'll be mod killed).

[nebula]

You're wasting your effort on me, but I'll entertain it. I actually did, in an annoying way, clarify why you are scum. You made an opportunistic hop on to a seemingly newb slot based on admittedly bad logic. Also, never ever heard of the "genuine" thing as a buzzword. Opportunistic, yes. But not "genuine."

It's cool, though. We can still be friends.

You don't seem to understand. Before you voted me, I had said that I didn't want people to vote for you. I also already explained what I meant by genuine being a buzzword, in that it isn't, and that was bad wording.

You should know this if you read the fucking thread.

Yes, I know. You said you didn't want people to vote me, but you included me as one of your two scum reads (fyi: there are three scum). That's weak. Very weak. It's like, you know that I will flip town if lynched, but want to keep casting shade at me so that, if lynched, you can say...oh hey guys, I didn't actually want him lynched.

Weak pushes suck. Like the vote now.

Cool cool on the buzzword thing.

p-edit

What? I'm confused.

[nebula]

^
page top

[nebula]

Oh, ok...bad joke.

So your case is OMGUS. Great. Maybe I should go back into nebbie-mode and link that wiki article for you.

Also, they are pretty great reasons. Hyuuuge.

[nebula]

But, the reason was not bad. The evolution of your read on me has been extremely opportunistic, and you waiting to vote until I voted you is the definition of OMGUS...there is literally no other argument there.

I've had a bit of wine, and it's bedtime. We can discuss more tomorrow.

Also, I am astounding. Thank you.

Also also, never said "fucking scum." That was you. I think I may have hit a nerve.

[nebula]

@Nebula – why did you bother to directly lie to me about your Alt status? 49 clearly is complete falsehood given your slip. What possible Town motivation could you possibly have for that deception?

Not a straight up lie. I said I haven't played this

style

before...which I have not. I hate making walls and expressing my thought processes. That said, it was deceptive but I had created this alt to get away from associations with the main. The deception was necessary. Obviously, that's out the window now.

The bolded I find especially suspect.

I think you taking that seriously is especially suspect.

You should vote Sesq, because I am a bad lynch.

[nebula]

Not a straight up lie. I said I haven't played this style before...which I have not. I hate making walls and expressing my thought processes. That said, it was deceptive but I had created this alt to get away from associations with the main. The deception was necessary. Obviously, that's out the window now.

This sort of tap-dancing is scummy as was your response back at 49. There is no disadvantage for you having said "Yes, I am an Alt that I am not disclosing" and left it at that. It would have answered my questions about experience. Instead you tried to "language lawyer" your response that while not necessarily incorrect via exact wording standards clearly was meant to be deceptive.

Of course it was deceptive. I pointed that out. The playstyle I was trying go for required the deception. I make no apologies for that. For you to try and read alignment based on that is just bad.

[nebula]

Nebula softclaimed twice now. It only makes sense if he is a jailkeeper. Doctor would not softclaim this early.

I haven't softclaimed at all, and I certainly wouldn't do it at like L-11000.

Even if you think I have softclaimed, why would you point it out? That's anti-town.

[nebula]

So dumb.

[nebula]

Nebula, I would appreciate it if you could respond to my posts.

What? Why I said Sesq was town in post 60? I liked post 52 at the time.

[nebula]

What did you like about post 52?

It was towny. I don't see why scum would start locking themselves into stances that early on. Of course, I had been drinking at the time, and now that I look back on it - there are no stances, more of a regurgitation of actions. So, probably not towny in retrospect.

Also, can you talk about why you felt the need to explain Hellfire's replace out?

Because it was a bad argument...as proven by the mod. Why would you not address it?

[nebula]

It might have been a bad argument, but had you replaced into a town slot, I don't feel like you would have entertained the post.

Normally, probably not. But with the forced playstyle I was using at the time, you'll notice I responded to pretty much everything.

[nebula]

Sesq is prob!scum. LUV and Riley are completely null for me right now.

[nebula]

"Lynching me would be bad" is a PR softclaim. His failure to acknowledge this is a scumclaim. I don't even want to the real jailkeeper to counter claim. This is 100% scum.

So dumb. This is an objective statement that doesn't hint at a role.

A softclaim is "I'm not being lynched today" (note the confidence associated) or more to the point "I'm a PR...won't say which." (An actual claim).

I like how you dismissed my earlier question though. What town motive do you have for putting a spotlight on a supposed softclaim?

[nebula]

you should not lynch me.

Nice, taken out of context, and was an obvious RVS joke response.

[nebula]

err.. finding scum?

Elaborate.

[nebula]

"So dumb"" means you believe I'm town BTW.

No, it means I think your thought process is dumb. It's dumb as either alignment.

[nebula]

I thought you are scum and at the same time are soft-claiming PR to later trade yourself with one of our PRs if it comes to that. In the worst case I out the jailkeeper who can be protected by the doctor in the best case I find scum.

Why are you not voting me?

How would scum!me softclaiming get a trade later on? Walk me through that one.

I'm not voting you because I'm voting Sesq.

[nebula]

In a 1v1 situation, you can say "hey guys I've been claiming this all game long". Or maybe you simply are trying bait the doctor to "protect" you during the night.

Your scenario requires that I hardclaim and get CC'd. Then I would 1v1, the real PR would end up getting lynched, and I would get lynched the next day. You are missing the most salient point - I would have to hardclaim - and the softclaim becomes effectively useless. So, again, I ask, what town motivation do you have for putting the spotlight on something you view as a softclaim?

[nebula]

It could be helpful in LyLo, though. I give you that.

[nebula]

Jesus...you are reaching.

I'm uncomfortable with all this from Sesq. Theater, maybe?

[nebula]

nice deflect

I don't need to deflect anything. Your entire interaction looks fake.

Theater with who Nebbie? Am I misinterpreting theater here? I've always used that as Scum and scum putting on a show to look TvT.

I think it's obvious what I was referring to. Why question it? It also can be used as a distancing tactic, so it doesn't have to be TvT.

[nebula]

I don't, actually. I'm all for people forming their own opinions. The obvious "bolding" reaction above doesn't help you though.

I can read fine. Thanks for the concern.

[nebula]

Meh. I cbd'f to respond to all this nonsense. Magna is prob!scum because he should know better than to argue NAI points and he's twisting things to make them scummy instead of addressing them on face value.

Toto is probs just bad town. I think he thinks he caught scum and now he's in a death tunnel.

VOTE: Magna

[nebula]

It doesn't. Your basis for your scumread does.

[nebula]

Soooo...my expressive read through:

Why didn't he vote me back originally and waited a day to 'decide' I'm bad town?

Because I didn't want you lynched then, and I still don't now. Sheesh, why is that hard to understand.

tl;dr
Uzi is showing his town game IMO

tl;dr
Hiraki is either trying to buddy me (why would he when I'm top wagon) or actually shows logic and is really reading. I lean the latter. Agree with his reads. BBT and MB are leantown though.

NOISE

I don't want to lynch nebula toDay.

Thanks. Good vote.

Toto Noise

Hiraki logic

Noise

Magnascum

So basically what you are doing is just handwaving as fast as you can. Noted.

No. As my words indicated, I was pointing out that you were using NAI items and twisting scenarios to fit your scum vision. You didn't refute. Noted.

Grrrrr!!! It's suspicious that yer claiming so early!!!

Agreed. Probably fake.

"I couldn't be fucked" is not acceptable here, and your magna points are shallow, empty rhetoric. I would agree that Toto is perhaps tunneling a bit too hard on you, though.

Completely acceptable. I put as much effort into them as he did in crafting them.

Sesq wall

What's the point of this wall of text?

To say that your tunnel is bad town.

Bad Sesq read list.

Cool....all caught up.

I don't realistically believe that Magna is going today.

VOTE: Sesq

[nebula]

^

[nebula]

I don't know. Why don't you tell me what was happening with the game state between that post and post 331.

[nebula]

I don't know. Why don't you tell me what was happening with the game state between that post and post 331.

^
@Toto

preview failed me

[nebula]

Can you provide some examples? I'd be interested to hear how.

Absolutely not. My response was at an equivalent level. You and Toto need to learn to read and deduce. No handholding here.

Were you not aware you already voted me?

Were you not aware I switched my vote off of you to Magna?

[nebula]

I'm talking about Magna's apparent NAI twisting. Examples or it didn't happen. Basic logic, man.

Absolutely not. My response was at an equivalent level. You and Toto need to learn to read and deduce. No handholding here.

[nebula]

Provide evidence for your assertions or die.

Are you serious with this...lulz.

No.

[nebula]

Provide evidence for your assertions or die.

Are you serious with this...lulz.

No.

You have no reason not to do so.

I do.

[nebula]

You and Toto need to learn to read and deduce.

I'm really glad you said this. I was about to give up on my deathtunnel.

No you weren't. No reason to try and use that to be disingenuous.

In an effort to be less distracting - I'm done responding to Sesq and Toto for the rest of D1.

Thanks, both.

[nebula]

This slip here is really funny, you're like "Nobody knows what she will flip... OH YEAH i mean um, scum. They're scum. Totally." As if you're scum, you know that I'm town, but needed to append it to your message.

Gonna break my promise....sorries.

This is just plain bad. To call a legit response to your question a slip is ew-worthy. He's spot on that no one except scum knows alignment, and so it scummy to line up lynches.

But...I think you know this.

[nebula]

Hawk and I are forming a townbloc. I think KainTepes can join.

wait,, what?? you were just questioning me EARLIER,,,, and why did you say FREDERICK can join your townbloc just because i voted him??

Did your invite get lost in the mail?

[nebula]

i just dont understand why you say FREDERICK join your townbloc just because i voted him.............. if you believe i am town you would know that i DONT actually know frederick's role or alignment,, right???

Let me help. It was a joke:

CONFIRM MAFIA GOON,,

Frederick is my SCUMBUDDUY,,

VOTE: FREDERICK B CAMPBAGE

You said you were a goon and Frederick was your scumbuddy. It was a joke to put you in a townbloc - especially that early.

I hate having to explain jokes

[nebula]

Hiraki wasn't talking to me, they were talking to Riley.

How does that impact at all what I said?

[nebula]

Nah, BBT is town.

[nebula]

Because it wasn't a response to my question, and if it was I don't expect legitimacy out of Hiraki.

So change "your" to "her" and re-read. How does it change at all what I said.

This is scum flailing.

[nebula]

Kain, you should really hop on the Sesq wagon. It's nice and warm. Elena should hammer. She's town.

[nebula]

So if Hiraki isn't scum, they at least don't have full confidence in my wagon.

I don't have full confidence in your wagon. No town-aligned player, absent a cop with a guilty, should. Doesn't change the fact that I think you have a high probability of flipping red.

Also, what you said above is not a direct contradiction, it's a clarification. I don't see it sounding forced at all. Would you have preferred "Only scum will know what Sesq will flip." Semantics. It doesn't change the overall point at all.

You seem to be focusing on unimportant details...why?

[nebula]

You never know when one little word might be the key.

When I said "didn't have

full

confidence" I didn't mean that in the way that they have like, 90% confidence, like I do in yours, I meant that it seems to be more around 50-60 with him.

Then why not just say he didn't seem to have confidence in the wagon? You're back tracking to make it fit your narrative. That's scummy.

[nebula]

So Toto is scum then?

Toto is probs just

bad town.

I think he thinks he caught scum and now he's in a death tunnel.

[nebula]

we just interpreted it differently.

[nebula]

Can we get more votes here people? He's just come off saying that "Lining up lynches is scummy" (which it isn't inherently .. it is NAI) but refers to a post from over 200 posts ago in response to my question. He repeatedly pointing to things about Toto's play and calling them scummy but says "Toto is just bad Town".

Aka behavior of scum who knows someone's alignment and thus bends over backwards to get the correct read despite the what they say about the other player's behavior.

Um...bad town can come across scummy? No? That I have had him as bad town for that long is nothing close to bending over backwards. It was quite easy to pull that back up.

Reaching! Keep on...you almost have it.

[nebula]

despite a lot of recent activity

...where he has done nothing to change that read.

[nebula]

Really?

Nope. You caught me. He's done an insane amount of work to change my read, and I just said what I said above for kicks and giggles.

[nebula]

I'm lynching you tomorrow.

You think you're still going to be here tomorrow?

[nebula]

Can we please run up Sesq now? I'm asking nicely.

[nebula]

Obvious prod dodges are obvious

Not a prod dodge (I abhor prodging). There has been nothing posted that changes my read on you, and you are the leading wagon by far as the days tick down. We need to get moving so we don't end up in a deadline lynch.

@Anyone who scum reads both Nebula and Hiraki

– get back on Nebula. Splitting the votes between both just means that neither one will get any significant momentum.

VOTE: Hiraki

lol.

Yeah...I don't see how that is funny.

[nebula]

You're just asserting your claim again even though it's been debunked days ago.

Point to the said debunking, please. Also, chill on the cursing. K. Thx.

Also, the latter is funny because he changed his mind within 13 posts.

You see that as funny and not AI?

[nebula]

If you were reading my posts you'd know where I debunked you.

Must have been a doozie of a debunking considering you are still the leading wagon (and no one hopped off).

Care to point to it, as I previously asked?

[nebula]

Burden of proof is on you to summarize your claims first, as the debunks could be addressing points you no longer believe and could be invalid.

Lynch this. Guaranteed scum flip.

[nebula]

Burden of proof is on you to summarize your claims first, as the debunks could be addressing points you no longer believe and could be invalid.

Lynch this. Guaranteed scum flip.

If you can't actually present points then it's your scum flip.

I'd provide a debunk but I don't know what your state of mind is regarding me totally and I don't want to do more than necessary.

Burden of proof is a real thing, and it lies on the person making the positive claim save for very extreme circumstances. Also, innocent until proven guilty was one of the first laws ever written, from the Code of Hammurabi from 1754 BC, and it's something I like to preserve throughout all facets of life.

Also, I forgot to call out your bullshit argument from popularity. Consider it covered.

Pretty sure you should reread Hammurabi's Code before making statements like that (hint: it dealt with the retributive punishment, not innocence or guilt).

Whatevs. For you to not even point to the post is ridiculous. At this point, it's looking like your lynch of a NL. I can't support a NL.

[nebula]

The law I'm specifically referring to in that code said that if someone made a claim without evidence that they should be punished. So basically, a law from 3700 years ago is telling me to lynch you. Thought that was funny.

If you can't present evidence, I'm going to assume there is no evidence. Is that understandable?

Yeah...except it doesn't. But we can debate that post-game (again, it's retributive).

I'm going to disengage from you again, as this is not helping move us forward. This isn't a court of law. Logic alone does not make a strong case. It's actually a horrible play to base your judgement on that alone given scum can manipulate.

My vote won't move, so let's see what happens.

[nebula]

Or maybe you're just terrible at logic and aren't willing to admit it.

Ego post. Yes, my 75% win rate shows that I am terrible at this game.

Words can say anything. Actions matter.

Now, I'm done.

[nebula]

Or maybe you're just terrible at logic and aren't willing to admit it.

Ego post. Yes, my 75% win rate shows that I am terrible at this game.

Words can say anything. Actions matter.

Now, I'm done.

That should actually be 71% now.

[nebula]

Well, my problem is that I want a claim to debunk

You said you already debunked it. Now you are saying you need something to debunk.

It's confusing to play as scum - I get it - but you really need to start getting your story straight.

VOTE: Sesq

[nebula]

I'm still very happy with a sesq lynch here, and I'm wary of moving my vote away. However, I'd be remiss if I didn't at least mention one other case I'd very, very, much like to see take off.

Yes, yes. Magna is scum too...now's not the time to try and start a new wagon. Put your vote back on Sesq and we can lynch Mags tomorrow.

[nebula]

You do realize you've already had me voted?

Yes. Extra vote was for emphasis.

Yeah, I debunked your old claims, and fairly well,

You realize this is what I've been asking you to point to and you've been dancing and flip-flopping around...right?

[nebula]

I'm still very happy with a sesq lynch here, and I'm wary of moving my vote away. However, I'd be remiss if I didn't at least mention one other case I'd very, very, much like to see take off.

Yes, yes. Magna is scum too...now's not the time to try and start a new wagon. Put your vote back on Sesq and we can lynch Mags tomorrow.

Yeah, fine.

VOTE: sesq

So you agree with me on Magna then, or was that just a blow-off?

I agree. See below:

Meh. I cbd'f to respond to all this nonsense. Magna is prob!scum because he should know better than to argue NAI points and he's twisting things to make them scummy instead of addressing them on face value.

VOTE: Magna

[nebula]

You know one thing on my mind has been "oh magna is scum oh magna is scum" I see it from a lot of people and yet...no wagon why is that

Because Sesq is at L-2 and Sesq is scum. Why attempt to jumpstart a counterwagon on scum with 4 days left?

Sesq is objectively scummy but at the same time I don't like the fact the votes there seem to be parked and there is little resistance for that wagon. Riley's "He is scummy and will hammer if he gets to L-1 but not going to vote there now" is a bit odd though.

Maybe the resistance is coming from the people jumping in other wagons. But I agree with Elena with the sentiment that wagon behavior is weird this game.

If Sesq is objectively scummy, why not put your vote down? I think there is quite a bit of resistance from the wagon given it's been between L-2 and L-3 for the better part of D1. Normally we would have at least run her up to L-1 by now.

[nebula]

The Top Three wagons are Nebula, Hiraki and Sesq.

Nope. Kain and I are tied for third.

[nebula]

I think it's funny that you think one vote is a wagon.

But, yeah.

[nebula]

nope fuck you

Piss off, jackass. There was no reason for that.

[nebula]

Normally you should be dead.

That was really weak.

[nebula]

You are asking me why Im not voting him when I already said why Im not voting him in the same post. So clearly the answer to your question was there. What was your question for?

If something is

objectively

scummy, then you should be seeing it as scummy, and the rest of your sentence shouldn't apply (not to mention the rest of the sentence is wrong).

p-edit

Yes.

[nebula]

Also you didnt answer my question.

I did. You haven't answered mine. Your response is not an adequate answer due to the point I clarified above.

Either you have an objectively scummy read on Sesq and are not voting for ????? reason.

or

You do not really have an objectively scummy read on Sesq, and are lying about it.

[nebula]

Then you don't have an objective scum read on Sesq. And you're right, there is a third option. You don't understand what objective means.

I've already addressed your question. Sorry if you can't comprehend.

[nebula]

*sigh*

[nebula]

Hey! Look! No change from the previous VC two days ago.

What are we hoping to accomplish by dragging this out........

[nebula]

I don't need to debate points with you. If others are hesitant, they are more than welcome to (they aren't however).

[nebula]

No.

[nebula]

Kain, hop on Sesq. Riley indicated that she would hammer at L-1. Lynch.

Gogogogogogo.

[nebula]

There is no reason for this BS.

Sorry you don't get it.

[nebula]

Dude, if you are town there absolute ZERO reason for you to behave like this.

Sorry you don't get it.

[nebula]

NO,, I THINK NEBBIE STILL MORE SUS THAN SUSQ

</3

I'm not though

[nebula]

K.

[nebula]

Who is scum on town!Sesq wagon, and who is scum not on town!Sesq wagon. Open question.

[nebula]

Seriously...if you and Hawk keep that shit up, I'm hitting report. No reason for that.

[nebula]

Why won't you explain your read on me?

Why do you keep hitting your head against a wall expecting a different result?

So you think Elena is bussing on a three vote wagon?

[nebula]

We're lynching Sesq.

Town!Kain would hop on at this point.

p-edit

Convincing case: I = town; Sesq = scum.

[nebula]

Hiraki may be scum, but I don't see it right now. Hasn't risen to the uncomfortable level.

[nebula]

That's a bad Kain. Bad!

[nebula]

I like the Sesq wagon better, and I don't see Hiraki as a viable lynch at this point. We can explore D2.

[nebula]

Sesq...the headbeating and tunneling is getting old. Stop rehashing. People can make there own decisions at this point.

[nebula]

then vote HIRAKI

Votes don't count if they aren't bolded

Are you serious?

[nebula]

As for me telling him bolded votes don't count, I'm pretty sure it's general site stuff that votes have to be bolded to count, preferably in the vote tags. If he wants to vote Hiraki I'm definitely for him doing so.

He wasn't trying to......

[nebula]

Doesn't even read his own posts....I definitely cbf'd.

[nebula]

But seriously, reading my posts is something that I do frequently, and I recommend you try it out as well

Then you should know the answer to your own question.

[nebula]

The problem was your post which implied that kain wasn't trying to vote hiraki

I think it's a scum tactic to hook up people on irrelevant bullshit so imma stop here

It went beyond implying...I was straight up indicating. Kain was trying to get

me[

to vote Hiraki.

Soo...yeah...there that is.

[nebula]

What the VC at now? Lowell up to 5-6?

I'll hammer to prevent a NL, but I still want Sesq.

[nebula]

I'll likely be out all weekend. I'm putting you on notice that any further votes on me will be considered an act of war.

This really makes me want to vote you.

[nebula]

I'll likely be out all weekend. I'm putting you on notice that any further votes on me will be considered an act of war.

This really makes me want to vote you.

This really makes me want to vote you.

This really make me want to vote you.

[nebula]

i think MAIRA might be scum,,

Who is Maira?

[nebula]

Oh.

[nebula]

It's like a brick wall, this argument is going nowhere. Fine, whatever you found, run with it.

I understand the argument is at an impass. Either we believe town!lowell forgot to mention her, or we go for the scum!lowell slipped theory. It's really up to you. If you are town, show it. Give me good reads.

I'll get to it when I'm back in the office on Monday. Unfortunately I had to spend the last several days arguing about nothing.

So you'll get to it when we have a few hours left in D1?

[nebula]

Will I lynch?

1. Lil Uzi Vert: I... guess. Meh.
2. BlueBloodedToffee: No.
3. nydushermain: Neutral, so, sure.
4. MagnaofIllusion: Yes, please!
5. KainTepes: No.
6. Lowell: No.
7. Hiraki: Yes.
8. Riley Cake: Probably not.
9. Toto: No, but he could quit nagging me.
10. Sesq: Yes, please.
11. nebula: sure, why not.
12. Music Box: No.
13. Elena Fisher: No.
14. Hawk: Yes, but not ideal.

This is horri-bad. You can't possibly think that both Sesq and I are both scum.

VOTE: Lowell

[nebula]

Sorry guys, I won't be able to play this. I have to take a break from Mafia. I have no time to play. I will be requesting replacement on all my games (only this one), but anyway.

It's a difficult situation. I'm really sorry.

Creature, can you replace me out

I'm really sorry.

This slot is cursed.

[nebula]

Who said they would lynch this?

I did.

[nebula]

(i'm putting this after every message from now on)

[nebula]

LOWELL IS AT L-1. I REPEAT. LOWELL IS AT L-1. PLEASE EVACUATE ONTO NEBULA OR SOMETHING. OR DON'T, DEPENDING ON YOUR PREFERENCE. BUT NOBODY LOLHAMMER HIM. PLEASE.

Can we please quick lynch this D2?

[nebula]

Srs question: Does anyone think that all three scum were on the Lowell mislynch?

[nebula]

Also...that was a strange choice for a nk.

[nebula]

Sesq's?

[nebula]

Either yours or Sesq, yeah.

And, who was responsible for leading that?

[nebula]

BBT, I think.

Try again.

[nebula]

You should be able to look it up fairly easy. I want you to say it.

[nebula]

Sticking with this for now:

VOTE: Sesq

I don't disagree; but, why?

[nebula]

VOTE: Sesq

{Magna, Sesq}

Let's try and figure out the third. I'm thinking the Lowell wagon needed some extra help, so probably on it.

[nebula]

I've stated why I previously had a scum read on him. His derailment of your wagon onto town!Lowell enhances it. You would have been the D1 lynch otherwise.

[nebula]

It wasn't 50/50. You were the leading wagon with no forward movement on either you or me. Upon deadline, you would have been lynched. That's just how things work.

I don't really care what you thought of the slot. Derailment requires the slot to be iffy, otherwise there will be too much resistance.

And, yes, you are scum. The derailment of your wagon enhances my read on that. The fact that you had the largest wagon D1 & so far are even D2 means that I'm not alone in that thought. Either way, you are an extremely informative lynch for me at this point.

[nebula]

Unvote, Vote: Sesq

Last vote was an incorrect vote.

Why was it incorrect?

^
Seems like this will be a common theme with wine and alts.

[nebula]

It was on Hawk.

Yes. It was.

Why did you place an incorrect vote?

[nebula]

It wasn't 50/50. You were the leading wagon with no forward movement on either you or me. Upon deadline, you would have been lynched. That's just how things work.

I don't really care what you thought of the slot. Derailment requires the slot to be iffy, otherwise there will be too much resistance.

And, yes, you are scum. The derailment of your wagon enhances my read on that. The fact that you had the largest wagon D1 & so far are even D2 means that I'm not alone in that thought. Either way, you are an extremely informative lynch for me at this point.

Multiple logical fallacies:

" The derailment of your wagon enhances my read on that. " Reads as circular logic, as the derailment of my wagon means I'm scum, but it wouldn't have been derailed in your eyes if I weren't scum. Also, argument from popularity, which is not true. Also, "informative lynch" is not an excuse to tunnel someone when you have no logic for it.


And you haven't escaped my eye, Music Box.

Holy shit. This is not a game of logic. Can logic help? Yes. Should you base all your decisions on logic? F'no.

To entertain: Why would Magna derail a, plausibly, SvT wagon (where either you or I are scum) unless his partner was the most likely to be lynched? As an outside party, I would have pushed for one of us to be lynched.

"Also argument from popularity"....lulz. Just gonna say lulz. It's not an argument from popularity, it's the fact that no one (except scum) wants a NL, and history shows the leading wagon usually goes (unless derailed).

Also, and informative lynch is a very good excuse to tunnel someone. It should have been done D1. I was remiss - amongst others.

Only reason I think there is a hint of town in you is that neither of us is scum and they are enjoying this TvT. Not sold on that.

[nebula]

Wow. You either horrible town or just slightly bad scum. Coolios. Moving on. Appreciate Hiraki's and MB's response.

FYI - not going to devolve D2 into another D1, so I am legit not talking to you after that post.

*sigh*

[nebula]

Magna spent most of d1 pushing Nebula to no avail and for a large majority of the day except near the later half Sesq was not the largest wagon nebula was.

Spoiler: Um....no

Votecount 1.6

Votecount 1.6

[0] Lil Uzi Vert
[1] BlueBloodedToffee - KainTepes
[0] nydushermain
[0] MagnaofIllusion
[0] KainTepes
[0] Lowell
[1] Hiraki - Toto
[0] Riley Cake
[0] Toto
[6] Sesq - BlueBloodedToffee, Lowell, Lil Uzi Vert, Music Box, Hiraki, nebula

[L-2]

[5] nebula - Sesq, MagnaofIllusion, Hawk, Riley Cake, Elena Fisher
[0] Music Box
[0] Elena Fisher
[0] Hawk

[0] Nolynch

Not voting: nydushermain

14 players are alive, therefore 8 votes is the majority.

Deadline: (expired on 2017-02-13 13:10:00)

Votecount 1.7

Votecount 1.7

[0] Lil Uzi Vert
[1] BlueBloodedToffee - KainTepes
[0] nydushermain
[0] MagnaofIllusion
[1] KainTepes - Riley Cake
[0] Lowell
[0] Hiraki
[0] Riley Cake
[0] Toto
[6] Sesq - BlueBloodedToffee, Lowell, Lil Uzi Vert, Music Box, Hiraki, nebula

[L-2]

[5] nebula - Sesq, MagnaofIllusion, Hawk, Elena Fisher, Toto
[0] Music Box
[0] Elena Fisher
[0] Hawk

[0] Nolynch

Not voting: nydushermain

14 players are alive, therefore 8 votes is the majority.

Deadline: (expired on 2017-02-13 13:10:00)

Votecount 1.8

Votecount 1.8

[0] Lil Uzi Vert
[0] BlueBloodedToffee
[0] nydushermain
[0] MagnaofIllusion
[1] KainTepes - Riley Cake
[0] Lowell
[2] Hiraki - Toto, KainTepes
[0] Riley Cake
[0] Toto
[6] Sesq - BlueBloodedToffee, Lowell, Lil Uzi Vert, Music Box, Hiraki, nebula

[L-2]

[4] nebula - Sesq, MagnaofIllusion, Hawk, Elena Fisher
[0] Music Box
[0] Elena Fisher
[0] Hawk

[0] Nolynch

Not voting: nydushermain

14 players are alive, therefore 8 votes is the majority.

Deadline: (expired on 2017-02-13 13:10:00)

Votecount 1.9

Votecount 1.9

[0] Lil Uzi Vert
[0] BlueBloodedToffee
[0] nydushermain
[0] MagnaofIllusion
[1] KainTepes - Riley Cake
[0] Lowell
[4] Hiraki - KainTepes, Toto, Sesq, MagnaofIllusion
[0] Riley Cake
[0] Toto
[6] Sesq - BlueBloodedToffee, Lowell, Lil Uzi Vert, Music Box, Hiraki, nebula

[L-2]

[2] nebula - Hawk, Elena Fisher
[0] Music Box
[0] Elena Fisher
[0] Hawk

[0] Nolynch

Not voting: nydushermain

14 players are alive, therefore 8 votes is the majority.

Deadline: (expired on 2017-02-13 13:10:00)

Votecount 1.6

Votecount 1.6

[0] Lil Uzi Vert
[1] BlueBloodedToffee - KainTepes
[0] nydushermain
[0] MagnaofIllusion
[0] KainTepes
[0] Lowell
[1] Hiraki - Toto
[0] Riley Cake
[0] Toto
[6] Sesq - BlueBloodedToffee, Lowell, Lil Uzi Vert, Music Box, Hiraki, nebula

[L-2]

[5] nebula - Sesq, MagnaofIllusion, Hawk, Riley Cake, Elena Fisher
[0] Music Box
[0] Elena Fisher
[0] Hawk

[0] Nolynch

Not voting: nydushermain

14 players are alive, therefore 8 votes is the majority.

Deadline: (expired on 2017-02-13 13:10:00)

Votecount 1.7

Votecount 1.7

[0] Lil Uzi Vert
[1] BlueBloodedToffee - KainTepes
[0] nydushermain
[0] MagnaofIllusion
[1] KainTepes - Riley Cake
[0] Lowell
[0] Hiraki
[0] Riley Cake
[0] Toto
[6] Sesq - BlueBloodedToffee, Lowell, Lil Uzi Vert, Music Box, Hiraki, nebula

[L-2]

[5] nebula - Sesq, MagnaofIllusion, Hawk, Elena Fisher, Toto
[0] Music Box
[0] Elena Fisher
[0] Hawk

[0] Nolynch

Not voting: nydushermain

14 players are alive, therefore 8 votes is the majority.

Deadline: (expired on 2017-02-13 13:10:00)

Votecount 1.8

Votecount 1.8

[0] Lil Uzi Vert
[0] BlueBloodedToffee
[0] nydushermain
[0] MagnaofIllusion
[1] KainTepes - Riley Cake
[0] Lowell
[2] Hiraki - Toto, KainTepes
[0] Riley Cake
[0] Toto
[6] Sesq - BlueBloodedToffee, Lowell, Lil Uzi Vert, Music Box, Hiraki, nebula

[L-2]

[4] nebula - Sesq, MagnaofIllusion, Hawk, Elena Fisher
[0] Music Box
[0] Elena Fisher
[0] Hawk

[0] Nolynch

Not voting: nydushermain

14 players are alive, therefore 8 votes is the majority.

Deadline: (expired on 2017-02-13 13:10:00)

Votecount 1.9

Votecount 1.9

[0] Lil Uzi Vert
[0] BlueBloodedToffee
[0] nydushermain
[0] MagnaofIllusion
[1] KainTepes - Riley Cake
[0] Lowell
[4] Hiraki - KainTepes, Toto, Sesq, MagnaofIllusion
[0] Riley Cake
[0] Toto
[6] Sesq - BlueBloodedToffee, Lowell, Lil Uzi Vert, Music Box, Hiraki, nebula

[L-2]

[2] nebula - Hawk, Elena Fisher
[0] Music Box
[0] Elena Fisher
[0] Hawk

[0] Nolynch

Not voting: nydushermain

14 players are alive, therefore 8 votes is the majority.

Deadline: (expired on 2017-02-13 13:10:00)

Votecount 1.10

Votecount 1.10

[0] Lil Uzi Vert
[0] BlueBloodedToffee
[0] lucca261
[0] MagnaofIllusion
[1] KainTepes - Riley Cake
[0] Lowell
[4] Hiraki - KainTepes, Toto, Sesq, MagnaofIllusion
[0] Riley Cake
[0] Toto
[6] Sesq - BlueBloodedToffee, Lil Uzi Vert, Music Box, Hiraki, nebula, Lowell

[L-2]

[2] nebula - Elena Fisher, Hawk
[0] Music Box
[0] Elena Fisher
[0] Hawk

[0] Nolynch

Not voting: lucca261

14 players are alive, therefore 8 votes is the majority.

Deadline: (expired on 2017-02-13 13:10:00)

Votecount 1.11

Votecount 1.11

[0] Lil Uzi Vert
[0] BlueBloodedToffee
[0] lucca261
[0] MagnaofIllusion
[1] KainTepes - Riley Cake
[0] Lowell
[0] Hiraki
[0] Riley Cake
[0] Toto
[6] Sesq - Lil Uzi Vert, Music Box, Hiraki, nebula, Lowell, BlueBloodedToffee

[L-2]

[5] nebula - Elena Fisher, Hawk, Sesq, KainTepes, MagnaofIllusion
[0] Music Box
[0] Elena Fisher
[0] Hawk

[0] Nolynch

Not voting: lucca261, Toto

14 players are alive, therefore 8 votes is the majority.

Deadline: (expired on 2017-02-13 13:10:00)

[nebula]

@Hawk: Also, Magna shopped Hiraki, me, and Lowell. Other than you at the beginning, that was it.

[nebula]

Translation – let’s see if I can put out feelers and see which way I want to sell my approach today.

Translation: There is scum off the wagon. Let's discuss who that is. I think it's Sesq.

Town!MoI would understand that. Scum!MoI is trying to push a mislynch.

So no-one bites on his “can I lay blame solely on the wagon” so he retreats to “Two scum on the wagon”.

But here’s the juicy crème-ala-crème of Nebula’s scummy approach to today –

False. I received a response.
Disingenious: I never implied that three scum were on the wagon. I did the opposite. Scum!MoI twisting words for his benefit.

And here we see the scum motivated posting in full swing. Immediately attempt to throw blame for the mislynch on Lowell at the feet of the people he was supposedly scum reading Day 1.

A reminder of the actual wagon on Lowell again -

A reminder of who actually started the wagon on Lowell when it was apparent that scumbuddy Sesq was going to be lynched:

I’m movng my vote where it is best served currently. Nebula is my scum read that has the most viable wagon at this stage. If enough players from Sesq vote for Lowell I will quickly move my vote there. But I’m not risking leaving Sesq as the only strong wagon at this stage.

VOTE: Lowell

Screw it. Flash wagon this scum. BBT I am counting on you to move your vote.

6 more votes people ....

So anyone not taking this stagnation in posting from many of the slots as a sign that the Sesq lynch is bad news needs a refresher in Mafia ..

Note who is smack dab in the 6th slot on said wagon – Nebula scum. Yet he’s actively arguing that scum derailed the wagon on Sesq to mislynch Lowell. A wagon he was very late on. Why would Town Nebula derail the “obv” wagon on Sesq to help a mislynch? Furthermore let’s look at how he jumps on …

More word twisting by scum!MoI. The Sesq wagon was already derailed at that point, at your own hand. Trying to say that I derailed the wagon is a complete falsity, and anyone who believes that should probably stop playing this game.

Not how Town thinks. Town Nebula should have been decrying the wagon and looking to keep Lowell Town who has the same reads as he supposedly does alive.

Given the amount of time left in the D1, it would have been fruitless to scream at a wall that had already gone no where. Yes, I did find the fact that Lowell had both me and Sesq as possible scum to be ridiculous, and scummy, but hindsight is 20/20. Yes, I did have a scum read on you, but I'm not infallible, and I'm not part of the informed minority, so I have to go with what seems best at the time. However, looking at the Sesq derailment in retrospect does in fact enhance my scum read on you.

Nebula is staging a “Oh, I was wrong on Sesq it was TvT” transition so that if he gets his mislynch for today he can change up the attack and say “Oh, clearly scum are encouraging this TvT battle”. Note that he specifically is now calling Sesq an information lynch.

More scum!MoI word twisting. I'm laying out my thoughts. I'm also not calling Sesq and information lynch, but I am saying that his lynch will be informative

in addition

to being likely scum.

VOTE: Magna

I want this more than Sesq. The blatant misreps and twisting of words is too much. No way town does this.

[nebula]

Nebula, why am I town?

You were supporting the Sesq wagon at the time I said that. Not completely sure about you right now.

[nebula]

What's changed other than my support of the Sesq wagon?

You were the first to leave Sesq for Lowell. Now, given my MoI scumread, I highly doubt that scum!BBT would make that play; but I'm debating internally how everything played out at the end of D1.

[nebula]

PEdit - If you doubt that scum!BBT would make that play then what is making you doubt the read?

As I said, I'm leaving the option open for my internal debate while I re-read.

[nebula]

Nebula what is your current read on Elena?

At the end of D1, I thought she was pretty town; though I don't know why she thought both myself and MoI were scum together.

I looked at your argument based on her refusal to answer Sesq's questions, but I don't see it. I did the same thing. Sesq is a fairly needy and frustrating player.

[nebula]

I think I can sum up Nebula’s response at 1259 as “No U, buzzword, No U, Buzzword”. Sad.

Not nearly as sad as your linking skills, or your handwaving.

“You were Town because you were voting Sesq. Now that you think Sesq is Town I am not sure about you”.

That's not what it says in the least. I'm worried about your reading comprehension...oh, wait. I'm not, because you are intentionally manipulating the meaning.

Again for the record – this is not how a Town player talks about one of their Top scum suspects. Scum aren’t “need and frustrating” they are scum. Nebula is describing Town difficult to work with here.

I wasn't referring to alignment one way or the other. Sesq, as a player, is frustrating and needy. I was describing the player. But, keep on telling me what I mean.

[nebula]

@mod: vote count please

[nebula]

Votecount 2.2

Votecount 2.2

[0] Lil Uzi Vert
[0] BlueBloodedToffee
[0] hapahauli
[3] MagnaofIllusion - Elena Fisher, nebula, Lil Uzi Vert
[0] Hiraki
[0] Riley Cake
[0] Toto
[0] Sesq
[5] nebula - Sesq, Toto, Music Box, Hiraki, MagnaofIllusion

[L-2]

[0] Music Box
[3] Elena Fisher - hapahauli, BlueBloodedToffee, Hawk
[0] Hawk

[0] Nolynch

Not voting: Riley Cake

12 players are alive, therefore 7 votes is the majority.

Deadline: (expired on 2017-02-27 12:20:00)

@mod: Hiraki and MB are voting for Sesq, not me.

Why does the mod want me dead

[nebula]

I'll explain my reads in my next post after my league game but as I said I didn't know the Lowell wagon was a thing or I would've tried to stop it I voted Magna thinking the votes were on neb/sesq and then went back to work. When I came back Lowell was lynched

Lowell was a leading wagon when you made your vote. Not sure I understand this.

[nebula]

VOTE: Elena

[nebula]

VOTE: Elena

You aren't slipping by

Do something or get bent.

[nebula]

VOTE: Elena

You aren't slipping by

Do something or get bent.

No, it's just you jumping onto a major wagon without justifying yourself.

OMG guys! Instead spending D2 tunneling, I'm voting someone who didn't adequately answer my question, has a previous case of suspicion that - while didn't originally convince me looks more so now - and cannot answer a simple question on why they didn't vote me.

I'm so scum. Power lynch me...please.

Get bent.

P.S. wasn't leading wagon until I hopped on.

P.P.S. Do something.

[nebula]

And my next exhibit in the “Why Nebula is Scum” … this post.

Earlier today Nebula has stated that I “shopped” scum reads on himself, Hiraki and Lowell. But this is the response he gives when Sesq quite properly points out that Nebula’s jump onto Elena was out of nowhere.

This is Cognitive Dissonance in full display – I was scum “shopping” for a lynch yesterday but he is Town exploring his other options and not tunneling. Look at my reasons and posts surrounding my suspicion of Hiraki, Nebula and Lowell. Then look at his jumps on Elena and Lowell (BTW he’s trying his absolute hardest to distance himself from any responsibility for his vote to mislynch Lowell which is scummy). Which ISO looks like someone actually looking for scum and which looks like scum making opportunistic hops?

Vote Nebula … he’s even asking for it!

You are exhausting.

How no one sees that you are intentionally distorting things to be scummy is astounding to me. I never stated that you shopping your vote/focus on other players was scummy. I was correcting Hawk's previous assertion as it was factually inaccurate. I'm also not "trying my absolute hardest" to distance myself from Lowell. My entire argument there is that

you

started it.

Seriously...no one sees what MoI is doing? Blatant misreps...

[nebula]

I'm not getting lynched today. Move on.

[nebula]

Not hope. You don't have the ability to get me lynched. Same reason I wasn't getting lynched D1.

You should focus in MoI/Elena/Sesq/Uzi

[nebula]

The fact that you reached back to my forced playstyle to find your reason for (attempting to) lynching me is worrying. Why not pick out something from later on in D1?

[nebula]

Whatevs - nice excuse.

Get good and town read me so we can move on. D2 is starting to feel like D1 again.

[nebula]

It's exhausting because you are getting away with blatant falsities. Also, I will post a video of me eating a sock if you think you or Toto can get me lynched before LyLo.

[nebula]

I haven't seen any distorting from him. Where is it?

Maybe you could be an adult, and do your own reading given that I've point it out on several occassions. Oh wait, you're prob!scumbuds so you wouldn't see it.......

[nebula]

I've seen this tactic utilized by Elena as well.

Then vote Elena.

[nebula]

^

This is why you are a frustrating and needy player. You cbf'd to even read the responses I've made to MoI. Guess what? I've made them, and I'm sure as shit not going to redo it for someone who I think is scum with the person I'm refuting.

I'm about <>this close<> to being done with this crap.

[nebula]

K, replace out.

Absolutely not. I could never subject another player to Sesq.

[nebula]

Um...maybe...but it's ridiculous. Thinking something is insincere, especially when I was, excruciatingly, changing my posting style, is a bad case. Operating in that persona - in which I did not consider the fact that my posting style was fake because that was the style I was playing at the time - I was sincere in what I stated. It's also why, when I alt slipped, I rephrased my read in my normal style

Also, in terms of other insincere votes that postdated that supposed insincere vote...have you seen any of our resident lurker's votes? Maybe ISO Riley/Uzi/MB and get back to me.

[nebula]

Except that I did point it out, but, as I stated, you can't see it. Scumshades are blinding.

[nebula]

Ugh. I keep trying but it's too infuriating not to respond to. Done talking to Sesq...again.

[nebula]

Nebula can you point out the things you wamted me to see in those ISOs? I did look at them but failed to find something relevant.

Um...their "insincere" votes. Pretty sure that was stated.

[nebula]

Nebula can you point out the things you wamted me to see in those ISOs? I did look at them but failed to find something relevant.

Um...their "insincere" votes. Pretty sure that was stated.

buzzwords

give us evidence

Yeah. Toto's buzzword. But, you don't read so whatevs.

[nebula]

Give us evidence.

Not giving you shit, and since Toto's "insincerity" is based on his subjective reads, he can go read their votes himself. Can't provide evidence for subjectives.

[nebula]

Please explain your subjective reads. I did not find whatever it is you saw there. I really want to townread you but you are not scumhunting beyond calling Sesq and MoI scum back to them, and then jumping on counter wagons for little reasons when they have presented.

You're right. I haven't had much time between defending myself and getting pissed off at Sesq's continual barbs.

Spoiler: Whatever Wall

Not sure how you don't see these votes at as least at the same level as my "insincere" vote:

Screamy-no-real-reason girl:

VOTE: KAIN TEEPS!!!!!!!!!

VOTE: KAIN TEEPS!!!!!!!!!

SELF VOTING IS SCUMMY!!!!!

Well, turns out I can. And I did.

I DON'T BELIEVE YOU AT ALL!!!!!!!!!

VOTE: LOWELL

NEBULA YOU'RE LUCKY YA SCUM PARTNER SCREWED UP!!! DIE LOWEL!!!!

All naked vote guy:

VOTE: Sesq

VOTE: Magna

Lurky Box:

I don't want to lynch nebula toDay.

VOTE: Sesq

Sticking with this for now:

VOTE: Sesq

Also, I think you're trying to read me as PP. That's not how I'm approaching this game, despite changing from the forced playstyle.

[nebula]

It would also be awesome is Sesq and MoI could keep their traps shut for a bit so I can talk with Toto without interference and rage inducing posts.

[nebula]

Please explain your subjective reads. I did not find whatever it is you saw there. I really want to townread you but you are not scumhunting beyond calling Sesq and MoI scum back to them, and then jumping on counter wagons for little reasons when they have presented.

You're right. I haven't had much time between defending myself and getting pissed off at Sesq's continual barbs.

Spoiler: Whatever Wall

Not sure how you don't see these votes at as least at the same level as my "insincere" vote:

Screamy-no-real-reason girl:

VOTE: KAIN TEEPS!!!!!!!!!

VOTE: KAIN TEEPS!!!!!!!!!

SELF VOTING IS SCUMMY!!!!!

Well, turns out I can. And I did.

I DON'T BELIEVE YOU AT ALL!!!!!!!!!

VOTE: LOWELL

NEBULA YOU'RE LUCKY YA SCUM PARTNER SCREWED UP!!! DIE LOWEL!!!!

All naked vote guy:

VOTE: Sesq

VOTE: Magna

Lurky Box:

I don't want to lynch nebula toDay.

VOTE: Sesq

Sticking with this for now:

VOTE: Sesq

Also, I think you're trying to read me as PP. That's not how I'm approaching this game, despite changing from the forced playstyle.

nope, not gonna let up on you

also the luv posts are pretty heavily out of context, he had walls before those votes kinda going through the people he'd vote

not totally justified always but there is some content

also, riley's only had 2 yelly posts out of like, 70

Do you see why I can't stand you. You can't keep your trap shut for even a few other people to post on my content without having to butt in and bring this back to a tunneling 1v1 bitch match. Shut it.

[nebula]

Then stop being disingenuous and tunneling which are incredibly anti-town.

Riley has had more than 2 yelly posts which are easily seen on ISO. LUV provides little context, so it is most definitely not "heavily out of context." Also, note you said nothing about MB.

So stuff it, and let others respond.

[nebula]

Literally in your above 2 posts. You are not responding to everyone equally...that is also disingenuous. My points are a response and you are again disingenuous.

You have earned a place on my player/mod blacklist with one other person. Congrats!

You still will not lynch me, and you continue to distract from the game by not stuffing it. Stuff it.

[nebula]

Seriously, if for some reason you happen to be town, you lose nothing by letting others weigh in without your commentary.

[nebula]

Literally in your above 2 posts. You are not responding to everyone equally...that is also disingenuous. My points are a response and you are again disingenuous.

You have earned a place on my player/mod blacklist with one other person. Congrats!

You still will not lynch me, and you continue to distract from the game by not stuffing it. Stuff it.

Because in my last two posts, the only other active person was you and Toto, and he was asking things I would like to be answered.

Unless this is an act I'm surprised you've been able to stay on this site with that short a fuse.

Oh, my, god. I'm starting to think you truly don't have any idea what you are saying/responding to. Like, contextually, you aren't getting it.

P.S. You really should look into sitemeta more.

[nebula]

I'm at L-2, correct?

[nebula]

nebby!!! i scream cos I'm excited, but I always have good reasons for what I do!! I am not kaintepes!!!

My intent was to show Toto that his reasoning was weak, not that you were scum.

[nebula]

NEBBY!!! I FOUND ANOTHER REASON YOU'RE SCUM!!! whenever sesq yells at ya, ya say she's a dumbo! But if ya really believe she's scum, you'd think it was cos she was mafia, not a dumbo!! Explain that!!!!

Because she infuriates me.

[nebula]

Thanks, Creature. So, because today has devolved into a Sesq not allowing me to speak with others without interjecting with her shit and MoI is a word twisting wall I keep hitting my head against but with no sound response, coupled with the fact that I'm almost certain that someone will lolhammer at L-1......

Sesq, you can go get bent.

I'm the Doctor.

And, no Toto, I was not softing D1 - and I had to play scummier than I intended because of your anti-town (or pro-scum) insistence that I had softed. So you can go get bent as well. I don't think a game has ever made me as angry as this one.

You may all focus elsewhere now.

[nebula]

I hope we do get a CC. Then when I flip Doc we have guaranteed scum.

You wanna CC me? Pretty please?

VOTE: Sesq

There is no way that both you and Magna are town, and I just want you on principle at this point.

[nebula]

VOTE: Magna

Conf!scum.

[nebula]

Well played, though, Magna.

[nebula]

{Sesq, Magna} You guys can find the third.

[nebula]

I protected Elena.

[nebula]

No, you're right I can't. That's why I said well played. However, my flip will show my actual role and Magna will be quicklynched tomorrow. Town should quick lynch you next.

I'm actually glad to be out of this game, and glad I'm getting scum in doing so. This will be good for town in the long run since the toxic you/me will be gone and one scum is out.

[nebula]

Also, just FYI, breadcrumbing is something scum will do in a known setup so that they can point back to it in CC and L-1 situations. But, whatevs.

[nebula]

And, added bonus, Magna is probably the best scum player on the team (you, the worst) so ++ there.

[nebula]

Run me up please.

[nebula]

Nah. I'm not letting you continue to twist minds today. We need this to be done with soon.

VOTE: nebula

Who wants to hammer?

ME!!!

[nebula]

And yet, he did.

[nebula]

Dude, you can let it go now. They're going to see on the flip.

You're just trolling now.