That’s for leaving Everybody Edits
![Sad :(](./images/smilies/icon_sad.gif)
Rarely updated. ~20 to ~60 players in game at once usually. Forums are still thriving (and introduced me to mafia). Apparently there’s going to be another ownership transition in a few months time.In post 17, Creature wrote:How many EE players are there?
12 & 16?In post 18, Creature wrote:Leaving here that I detected so far one post that looks very forced and one post that looks very genuine.
Free towncred if you can find each.
To my knowledge I am the only player active on both forums. I know HeyNK has played here in the past but I haven’t seen him since I joined.In post 23, Creature wrote:I mean in this game, or in this site.In post 21, mutantdevle wrote:Rarely updated. ~20 to ~60 players in game at once usually. Forums are still thriving (and introduced me to mafia). Apparently there’s going to be another ownership transition in a few months time.In post 17, Creature wrote:How many EE players are there?
Damn you saw past my deliberate ambiguity :3In post 25, Creature wrote:Which is genuine and which is forced?In post 24, mutantdevle wrote:12 & 16?
Close, but not that.Also I get the feeling this question is to just test for people who want to appear townie.
???In post 39, northsidegal wrote:VOTE: mutantdevleIn post 35, mutantdevle wrote:Speaking of which, Texcat, are you going to tell us what role you chose? Since you are the first in the draft order you are guaranteed to have a PR. Hence you are the most likely candidate for the scum to shoot.
There are a few roles that we may benefit from being aware exists, not many though. And if she is scum then her telling us her role is all the better.In post 42, northsidegal wrote:why would texcat tell us what role she chose? what possible benefit could we get out of that, especially on day one? even more, in 35 you're assuming that texcat is town.In post 41, mutantdevle wrote:???In post 39, northsidegal wrote:VOTE: mutantdevleIn post 35, mutantdevle wrote:Speaking of which, Texcat, are you going to tell us what role you chose? Since you are the first in the draft order you are guaranteed to have a PR. Hence you are the most likely candidate for the scum to shoot.
It's a basic analysis that any decent scum would conclude. On the flipside, if Texcat survives the first 2 nights then that would be a major scum tell for me.
I'm not demanding she role claims, I'm just asking her if she is going to. I do not expect her to tell us what her role is if it gives absolutely no benefit to us. But it's a basic fact that Texcat is DEFINITELY a PR, the allignment of this however is unknown.
the sooner we stop talking about the setup the better, and i'm pretty sure i've already found something.
I hadn't previously considered the possibility of scum taking roles to prevent town having them. Possibly because I'm someone who prefers to boost one's own team rather than subtracting from the other.In post 50, wilky wrote:In post 46, mutantdevle wrote: Additionally, what role you chose may be reflective of your alignment. Eg. a cop isn't very likely to be chosen by scum.
Right, so letsALLroleclaim then. I mean that will solve the whole game right?
You keep talking about scum being effected by the role being chosen first and that it could damage scum. Who's to say you didn't want to find out because you're scum and want to know if the kill would be successful tonight then?
Furthermore, why wouldn't mafia take cop if they had first choice? I mean I know it doesn't benefit them as much as town but if scum were to take roles such as cop early in the draft they could stop town from having them roles so roles are not AI at all.
To some extent that is a good thing (assuming she is town). A protective role may no longer be required to prevent her death since the scum may assume she is protected anyway. I'd also argue that she is probably one of the more powerful PRs. I don't know about others, but I chose my role based on what I thought would have been taken. As a result, my role choice is neither the strongest role in the game nor what my first choice would be.In post 51, MisaTange wrote:Plus, if it wasn't obvious by the mechanics, now it's blatantly obvious that he'll be protected tonight now that someone pointed out that he's a PR.
I had no intent to start much of a conversation. What I expected from that post was either "no I don't want to role claim" or "yes, I'm this role". The result of a yes may have led to a discussion of where to go from there but a no would have had no effect on how to play that day. I did not anticipate such a negative reaction to the prospect of a confirmed PR player revealing what that PR is if they themselves had deemed it something that was beneficial to the town.In post 53, wilky wrote:In post 52, mutantdevle wrote:If I were a PGO I would want the town to know that so that no protective roles get themselves killed trying to save me; is the death a scum really worth the loss of 2 (or more) townies with at least one being a protective role? At the very least I'd probably fake claim as either PGO or commuter so that the scum are more sceptical of voting for me.
And at no point am I backtracking here. I was always going to back down on the prospect of a claim if you explained you had no desire to do so; I'm sorry if I didn't explicitly state that in my first message. Since you have now said you don't want to role claim, that's the end of it.
"I AM NOT BACKTRACKING.... I'M JUST UHMMM.... EHHMM... FINISHED WITH THE CONVERSATION!!!!!1"
Personally no. I know that stating my role will have no benefit to town. But there are a few roles that may have some weight on the town by being known even if they have not done anything with them yet.In post 56, wilky wrote:So are you going to roleclaim then?In post 55, mutantdevle wrote:I had no intent to start much of a conversation. What I expected from that post was either "no I don't want to role claim" or "yes, I'm this role". The result of a yes may have led to a discussion of where to go from there but a no would have had no effect on how to play that day. I did not anticipate such a negative reaction to the prospect of a confirmed PR player revealing what that PR is if they themselves had deemed it something that was beneficial to the town.In post 53, wilky wrote:In post 52, mutantdevle wrote:If I were a PGO I would want the town to know that so that no protective roles get themselves killed trying to save me; is the death a scum really worth the loss of 2 (or more) townies with at least one being a protective role? At the very least I'd probably fake claim as either PGO or commuter so that the scum are more sceptical of voting for me.
And at no point am I backtracking here. I was always going to back down on the prospect of a claim if you explained you had no desire to do so; I'm sorry if I didn't explicitly state that in my first message. Since you have now said you don't want to role claim, that's the end of it.
"I AM NOT BACKTRACKING.... I'M JUST UHMMM.... EHHMM... FINISHED WITH THE CONVERSATION!!!!!1"
Cop or doctor isn't so much as what I was expecting. I was more interested to see if they were one of the roles that can actually do something about being targetted by scum. If they did role claim something like cop though (which I don't think any town player in their right mind would do) then I would consider them town.In post 57, northsidegal wrote:what did you really expect to gain if texcat said that she was the cop or the doctor or something? like, i don't understand why you wanted to have this conversation right now at the beginning of the day and i don't understand what you thought we'd gain out of it anyways.
Like I said. I was not after a cop claim. My point here is that anyone who claims to have the cop role I would consider town because of how useless the role is to scum. However, I would not consider role claiming as cop before you have any results as a good idea.In post 60, northsidegal wrote:?In post 58, mutantdevle wrote:If they did role claim something like cop though(which I don't think any town player in their right mind would do)thenI would consider them town.
Anyone can fake claim as anything. But if you can prove someone's role is cop but not what their alignment is then I'd be more inclined to believe a cop is town than scum.In post 64, northsidegal wrote:certainly you realize that a scum redirector could just fakeclaim as cop, right?
No, I have a very different motive for wanting to know your role.In post 65, texcat wrote:It looks like your interests are exactly the same as scums' interests.
Yes I am idiot town if that’s what you consider me to be. But honestly, I’d argue that ignoring people’s concerns is scummier than justifying my opinion. I’ve expressed my interest in discussing the potential of a role claim no further and it is actually others that are continuing it; I am simply replacing. I genuinely believe there is things to be gained by day 1 role claims of players likely to receive a bullet. Obviously, others do not share that opinion.In post 69, wilky wrote:I'm actually starting to think that you are just idiot town surely scum would have given up on this by now.In post 66, mutantdevle wrote:Anyone can fake claim as anything. But if you can prove someone's role is cop but not what their alignment is then I'd be more inclined to believe a cop is town than scum.In post 64, northsidegal wrote:certainly you realize that a scum redirector could just fakeclaim as cop, right?
I’m familiarising myself with how things work on this site. I’m yet to complete a game here but I am currently in 3 of them. On the EE forums however I have played at least 6 games and even hosted one. The mafia culture there is a lot different though. So basically I’m not completely inexperienced and I wouldn’t want anyone to discard me as that.In post 88, Creature wrote:What I'm worried about mutantdevle is that he has no idea of how mafia works here. So I'm thinking his rolefishing is town motivated even if it's pretty bad.
I never said sheIn post 125, Lalendra wrote:Even less beneficial is the way in which Mutant pointed out who should be the first NK, like are you kidding me?
On the rare chance that she chose a role that would benifit us to be known (as I explained earlier). It could also serve as a nudge to her that she is the most likely person to be shot, if she had not previously considered that, and that she should do something about it if she can. Furthermore, it would have allowed her to comfortably fake claim a role that could potentially make the mafia consider not shooting her.In post 125, Lalendra wrote:So you acknowledge that you are unwilling to disclose your role; why would you feel that Tex may have been willing to do so?
I would like an answer to this as well.[/quote]In post 125, Lalendra wrote:why did you answer it, then?In post 24, mutantdevle wrote:12 & 16?In post 18, Creature wrote:Leaving here that I detected so far one post that looks very forced and one post that looks very genuine.
Free towncred if you can find each.
Also I get the feeling this question is to just test for people who want to appear townie.
:(
Personally, I have found it a good experience. My first game was on discord as well :3 As for seriousness we have our fair share of serious players (myself included) but the infrequent games and ~50% lurker count is what made me turn to this forum (I still play there though when games are available).In post 130, Creature wrote:The problem is that EE forums mafia isn't a good experience. EE forums isn't a good mafia forums, I doubt it's even serious. So he should be a total newbie for serious mafia.In post 125, Lalendra wrote:I don't like this. His join date is a month ago but he already said earlier in the thread that he has plenty of experience playing mafia, and in case that wasn't clear, he even refutes your noob claim later:
Not usually, no. It's only occurred once on that forum for me. It's just my approach to this format of game was that the players at the top of the draw list are more likely to be a PR and we know for certain the person at the very top would be a PR. Therefore I was giving them the opportunity to role claim IF they felt it could benefit the town. It looks a lot less dodgy if you roleclaim after being asked if you would rather than just straight up role claiming.In post 134, Creature wrote:In your games was it normal to ask someone to claim so early?In post 35, mutantdevle wrote:Speaking of which, Texcat, are you going to tell us what role you chose? Since you are the first in the draft order you are guaranteed to have a PR. Hence you are the most likely candidate for the scum to shoot.
'This' refers to the whole 'mistake' of asking for if texcat would consider role claiming. I myself do not view it as a mistake as such as in my opinion it would be a perfectly valid thing for texcat to do IF her role would benefit town members from knowing it. But I get the feeling that others would view it as a mistake and a bad idea to roleclaim regardless of her role. On my part, it's a mistake in that I mistakingly thought players would be more open to the POSSIBILITY of a roleclaim but alas most players have reacted as though I have demanded one.In post 136, CityElectric wrote:What is 'this' referring to?
I think Creature's and I's experiences of mafia on EE are going to be different. Creature hasn't played EE in a long time (as far as I am aware). I only started being involved with the EE forums long after Creature left and they had stopped playing mafia. However, earlier this year they revived the tradition of playing a Mafia game every month or so which was kicked off with a game on discord. Since then, they have all been forum games which would be considered blitz games on this site as each day is only 72 hours. There also isn't really many guidelines for the games we play. As such, most games consist of non-standard mechanics. So based on the fact that almost none of the games we play there are "normal" there tends to be a lot of speculation to the mechanics since most of them we have never played before. In the game I hosted I introduced quite a few new mechanics so there was definitely a lot of speculation there including on the first day. In particular, the game I hosted had 2 pairs of players with the same role which caused a mislynch as the town concluded they didn't think the setup would have 2 of the same role.In post 137, MisaTange wrote:@Creature/mutant: (to try to settle the 'idiot town/scum issue) in EE, is it common to setup speculate on the first pages?
I had initially planned to ignore the fact that we have a shared sentiment when coming into this game. But since he has been town reading and actively defending me throughout the game, it makes it hard to consider he would be working against my alignment. As a side note, for those of you who think Creature might be scum, do you really think he would defend a town member who could be so easily scrutinised for role fishing? If you don't believe that I am town and he is actually scum trying to help out a noob then at least my mislynch would give Creature more of a town status.In post 137, MisaTange wrote:Also @mutant: Why do you tr Creature besides sharing the same forums back then?
I'm neither a VI nor am I scum. I do not accept I was role fishing I was simply asking a fish if they'd be willing to jump out of the water. I had no intention of throwing my hook into the water if she said no. A role claim could be tactical if it is done right, it is not always a bad thing to do.In post 138, Aster wrote:While I am getting strong "idiot" vibes from mutantdevle, I'm not convinced that they are "village idiot" vibes. Being a VI could explain why he was rolefishing, but it does not explain why he was so quick to backtrack on his fishing. Many of his actions can be caused by either idiocy or mafianess, but his hastiness of backtracking cannot simply be explained by being a VI. If he was merely a VI who thought rolefishing was acceptable, then I'd think that his reaction to northside would be more along the lines of "WTF are you voting me?" rather than "Oh noes I'm being voted for rolefishing". It strongly suggests to me that he had a "guilty conscience" about it and therefore quickly realised what northside was on about.
Texcat had free choice of role. She had the freedom to choose absolutely any role on the list without worry that someone else may take the role. As a result, she could choose whichever role she thought was the strongest. Hence she potentially has the strongest and most valuable role in the game. Fake claiming as something either less useful or potentially damaging for the mafia if they were to target her could prevent them from doing so. Personally, I would consider the act of fake claiming as a little selfish since there are the dangers of someone CC and it would divert the kill to someone else but I put the option there for if she wanted to take it.In post 138, Aster wrote:Tell me, mutant, do you really believe that it would be a good idea to have Texcat fakeclaim, supposing Texcat were to be a townie?In post 129, mutantdevle wrote:On the rare chance that she chose a role that would benifit us to be known (as I explained earlier). It could also serve as a nudge to her that she is the most likely person to be shot, if she had not previously considered that, and that she should do something about it if she can. Furthermore, it would have allowed her to comfortably fake claim a role that could potentially make the mafia consider not shooting her.
It’s not as simple as one or the other, it’s a mixture of the 2 + some more.In post 150, CityElectric wrote:Ah, right, your post was worded in such a way it could either refer to the formatting mistake or what you mention here, I wanted to clear that up.In post 148, mutantdevle wrote:In post 136, CityElectric wrote:
What is 'this' referring to?
'This' refers to the whole 'mistake' of asking for if texcat would consider role claiming. I myself do not view it as a mistake as such as in my opinion it would be a perfectly valid thing for texcat to do IF her role would benefit town members from knowing it. But I get the feeling that others would view it as a mistake and a bad idea to roleclaim regardless of her role. On my part, it's a mistake in that I mistakingly thought players would be more open to the POSSIBILITY of a roleclaim but alas most players have reacted as though I have demanded one.
Having said that, I have a huge problem with this. It looks like you consider your mistake to be 'I suggested something that made everyone think I'm scum' rather than 'I suggested something that I thought was a good idea, but actually was disadvantageous for town.'. That is not a town mindset.
I would vote you right here, right now, but if I counted correctly, that would put you at L-1 and I consider it to be way too early in the game to go there quite yet, as we're only on page 6, we have a little over 12 days left, and I've still got no solid reads on the majority of the player list, but consider my vote to be on you.
I did not start a conversation about her role. This conversation was started by people forming a backlash against my question to textcat. I had no intention of starting a conversation. I simply wanted a yes or a no to my question.In post 152, Lalendra wrote:Either way, starting a conversation about her role is anti-town, to me. If she has the strongest and most valuable role in the game, why bring attention to it? You said it might benefit town to know what it was, but it also benefits scum. And then you say fake-claiming would be selfish, but by bringing up the topic of her claim (whether you think it was role-fishing or not is irrelevant), you are leading to one or the other of those eventualities. If she indicates she doesn't want to claim, you have still cast a spotlight on her, turning her into lynchbait if she is town, and thereby potentially losing one of our biggest assets.
Omg wow you're right! You have changed my opinion on this subject without even presenting a well thought out opinion on it and without even having looked into. Thank you so much! Jeez, guys sorry for being so wrong. /sarcasm. Viome is one of the players you should look at for not genuinly opposing me and being on the wagon just because.In post 154, Viomi wrote:There is no situation in which her claim would be helpful to us.
No. If I role claim I may as well place the vote on myself.In post 156, CommKnight wrote:Time for a claim.
I don’t want sympathy. Being hammered and role claiming has the same consequences. There is no way out for me or my role here.In post 162, CommKnight wrote:No claim = no sympathy of being hammered. If you don't claim, you will get hammered.In post 161, mutantdevle wrote: No. If I role claim I may as well place the vote on myself.
I agree with this post aside from the idiot town part. Being discarded as simply an idiot is why I don’t really care about living on if my opinions are just going to be dubbed as idiocy. I’m not an idiot; I’ve just made a mistake.In post 164, wilky wrote:What would claiming actually acheive in this setup though? Claiming any role doesn't give answer to alignment.In post 162, CommKnight wrote:No claim = no sympathy of being hammered. If you don't claim, you will get hammered.In post 161, mutantdevle wrote: No. If I role claim I may as well place the vote on myself.
I don't have much to add to the intent on mutant, I personally see him as idiot town but I can see why he would be perceived as scum. I wouldn't hammer him so early in D1 though we are then missing out on so much time to get information and draw scum out.
Is it not logical for scum to get rid of a role they know exists rather than risk going after a role that may or may not be more beneficial to get rid of? I think most people would play it safe. And I never said I would DEFINITELY get NK, I just think there would be a good chance for it.In post 166, Chip Butty wrote:You've implied you think those at the top of the draft order potentially have the most powerful roles, and that scum will nk accordingly. You are only 5th in the lynch order yet you say if you claimed you would definitely draw the nk? How does that work?
I've already done this twice. The most recent and most detailed of which takes little effort to scroll up and find. I feel like you are skim reading at this point. In post 161 open the spoiler; it's roughly halfway up the post.In post 166, Chip Butty wrote:Also can you give a specific claim tex could have made that would be beneficial to town?
I never said I wasIn post 166, Chip Butty wrote:Why do you think you needed to prompt her to fakeclaim, and why did you think your prompt would inspire her to do so, if she hadnt6already thought of it herself?
I appreciate that you want to keep me alive but if you are going to ignore me hereafter then you may as well just lynch me now. I wouldn't want to live in a game where my opinion holds no value.In post 171, Creature wrote: - Ignore mutant and hunt scum elsewhere
First of all, what do you mean by textcat didn't even listen? I don't recall her ever having anything to listen to. I asked her a question which requires an answer (which she gave and I am satisfied with). I wasn't telling her to do anything so listening doesn't come into this.In post 172, Creature wrote:Good thing mutant at most just pointed what was obvious and texcat didn't even listen.
No no no no no no no. No. Now either you have not been reading my points properly or you are purposely twisting them. I am not writing things in italics to be fancy. At no point have I EVER said you should ALWAYS role claim. The number of times I have been having to point out that the role claim isIn post 173, wilky wrote:Wait a minute? Only that point you don't agree with? Following your own logic would suggest that you claiming might be worthwhile, you also said that people would have picked roles that would fit their allignment in your eyes so I assume you would have done something to that extent.In post 165, mutantdevle wrote:I agree with this post aside from the idiot town part. Being discarded as simply an idiot is why I don’t really care about living on if my opinions are just going to be dubbed as idiocy. I’m not an idiot; I’ve just made a mistake.In post 164, wilky wrote:What would claiming actually acheive in this setup though? Claiming any role doesn't give answer to alignment.In post 162, CommKnight wrote:No claim = no sympathy of being hammered. If you don't claim, you will get hammered.In post 161, mutantdevle wrote: No. If I role claim I may as well place the vote on myself.
I don't have much to add to the intent on mutant, I personally see him as idiot town but I can see why he would be perceived as scum. I wouldn't hammer him so early in D1 though we are then missing out on so much time to get information and draw scum out.
Whilst I don't agree claiming in this sense is the best thing to do surelyyoudo?
Thank you for being the first person to actually change my opinion on something. I had not previously considered that this question would be asked from a scum point of view. I guess the same can be said for other roles such as commuter as well. I still think it would be more beneficial for town than it would be for scum to know this though.In post 174, Chip Butty wrote:This can be read as 'Hey, we want to shoot you, you're not a PGO or anything, are you?' it seems to me now to be a bit blatant if from scum. Maybe just moronic.In post 35, mutantdevle wrote: Speaking of which, Texcat, are you going to tell us what role you chose? Since you are the first in the draft order you are guaranteed to have a PR. Hence you are the most likely candidate for the scum to shoot.
I'd appreciate if you could point out specific parts to specific posts you refer to with this but without re-reading I'd say the general explanation of that is that as time goes on I'm becoming a little more frustrated and feeling a little more hopeless towards my situation.In post 174, Chip Butty wrote:However, elemwnts of mutant's later defence worry me a bit.
Both myself, MisaTange and, to some extent, Lalendra have addressed or hinted towards it. I was the main person who addressed it and gave an explanation for it before there was any real pressure over it. If you think the sentiment of playing with someone who shared the experience of a game that was a huge part of our internet childhood is not something we are at least going to have a small connection over then you underestimate sentiment. Sure we never knew each other back then but EE leaves a lasting effect on people that no one outside of it can specifically relate to. I wouldn't expect any non-EE players to understand.In post 181, wilky wrote:In post 180, mutantdevle wrote:You’re late to pointing that out. You also clearly haven’t read the explanation for it. And you also haven’t considered how stupid of an idea that would be for scum to do in my situation.
Late to what? Mentioning that Creature is buddying you? Now I may be going senile but I can't remember anyone saying that he was buddying you before hand. I also don't see comparing site meta from here to site meta on EE as a valid reason to town read someone.
This point was made at the angle of y'all considering me to be scum. IfIn post 183, northsidegal wrote:why are you calling it a slip? the whole day you've been maintaining that what you've done isn't scummy at all and that it's just our interpretation of it. framing it as a slip implies that you recognize that it's scummy. to me, this suggests you don't actually believe what you're saying, but you recognize that backtracking at this point would be suicide. like, you can't have it both ways - you can't say that what you didn't wasn't scummy and also say that it was too scummy to be scum at the same time as a defense.
Not everyone on the wagon is irrational. Like I say, I would probably have been on the wagon myself if a wagon built around someone else asking the same question I did. What I do find slightly irrational is how most people seem to be rejecting the whole logic behind me asking the question and, for some people, it's seeming a little forced to me. A lot of people are reacting to what I say as though I am exposing secrets to scum when all I am doing is pointing out the obvious. It's obvious that textcat is a PR. It's obvious that she would have the freedom to choose the role she deems to be the best. It's obvious that this would make her a target for the first night kill. Stating that isn't me being scummy it's me pointing out the obvious. Is it really so hard to consider that there are a select few roles that may give benefits to the town or the role owner if they were known and therefore by giving them the chance to roleclaim if they wanted to do so?In post 183, northsidegal wrote:i really don't like this - you're trying to paint it that your defense is a perfect explanation of why what you've done is townie and everyone still on the wagon is just being irrational. like, what you did was scummy. what you're continuing to do is still scummy - nothing's changed.
I was never scum reading him so I don’t know what you’re on about there.In post 190, wilky wrote:I think that it would be one or the other. Creature buddying with Mutant seems to be more along the lines of if Mutant flips town he can try claim some town cred from it.In post 187, Viomi wrote:mutantdevle + Creature scumteam, anyone?I don't have time just now to look and see if people did imply Creature was buddying you as i'm on my lunch break i'll look later. How I seem to recall it is they were more asking for reasons on why he was scum reading you. If you did imply that Creature was buddying you though why are you town reading him as in the bolded part in that quote? If you thought he was buddying you surely he'd be pinging your scumdar no?In post 189, mutantdevle wrote:Both myself, MisaTange and, to some extent, Lalendra have addressed or hinted towards it. I was the main person who addressed it and gave an explanation for it before there was any real pressure over it. If you think the sentiment of playing with someone who shared the experience of a game that was a huge part of our internet childhood is not something we are at least going to have a small connection over then you underestimate sentiment. Sure we never knew each other back then but EE leaves a lasting effect on people that no one outside of it can specifically relate to. I wouldn't expect any non-EE players to understand.In post 181, wilky wrote:In post 180, mutantdevle wrote:You’re late to pointing that out. You also clearly haven’t read the explanation for it. And you also haven’t considered how stupid of an idea that would be for scum to do in my situation.
Late to what? Mentioning that Creature is buddying you? Now I may be going senile but I can't remember anyone saying that he was buddying you before hand. I also don't see comparing site meta from here to site meta on EE as a valid reason to town read someone.
This insistence that myself and Creature are a scum team gives me the confidence that my misslynch would not be in vain as at least it would give him town credit.
Are you seriously suggesting that because you and creature were both on EE you can confidently town read one another because of that? Newsflash, it's not and i'd rather you found real reasons to read people I mean it's not like we are in RVS anymore so that reason won't slide with me.
Oh yes because randomly declaring your role with seemingly no motivation to do so would go down well wouldn't it? Considering how people have reacted to my train of thought I feel like I'd be one of the few people that would be accepting of someone doing that. By asking if she wants to role claim I am giving her the comfortability of doing so. It looks less scummy if you have the footing to role claim instead of doing it out of the blue. I have mentioned this at least twice in my posts.In post 199, Lalendra wrote:What I don't understand is that Mutant keeps going back to "I was giving her the option to roleclaim." Everyone has the option to roleclaim at any point in the game, she didn't need your permission to do it. And you misunderstood what I said about her being lynchbait. I didn't say that a fakeclaim would make her lynchbait; I said that whether she fakeclaims or claims or doesn't claim, SHE IS NOW LYNCHBAIT purely because you brought attention to her. Whether or not scum would have drawn that conclusion on their own is irrelevant; you didn't need to point it out to them. At best it's anti-town.
I don't get why you need to be sarcastic here other than to purposely be aggravating in a non-constructive way?In post 202, wilky wrote:Genius found.In post 201, mutantdevle wrote:I am under the impression someone who is lynchbait is bait to be lynched.
I'm not offended by what you said, I just don't see why you needed to make that comment :3In post 204, wilky wrote:Think you need to grow some thicker skin.In post 203, mutantdevle wrote:I don't get why you need to be sarcastic here other than to purposely be aggravating in a non-constructive way?In post 202, wilky wrote:Genius found.In post 201, mutantdevle wrote:I am under the impression someone who is lynchbait is bait to be lynched.
I didn't understand how what they were saying by describing textcat as lynchbait. So instead of assuming they were in the wrong, I took into consideration that perhaps the fault was on my part for not understanding the term. Over the last few weeks, I have been quickly learning a lot of new terms in mafia so it wouldn't be such a stretch to me if I simply misunderstood the term. Hence my post clarified that in case that was what was happening.
Any other views on Creature yet Mutant?
What other reads do you have in the game so far?
I had no intention of being sarcastic in that post; I apologise if it came across that way. If I'm being sarcastic I usually do so in the form of an obvious joke rather than just being sassy.In post 206, wilky wrote:You seem to be really sitting on the fence on creature for me. You say you think he's town but you've also expressed concern he is buddying you.
If you are town then why won't you want to share your reads list? That sounds a pretty anti-town position to me. You also realise you can't comment when you've been lynched no? No-one will critiscise you for posting reads I mean i've on seperate occasions posted reads on you, Chip Butty and Creature. No one has thrown any shade at me for making reads as that is the game.[/quot
I'm sorry if I wasn't clear on my Creature read. I'm not on the fence as I think he is town. It's just I acknowledge the possibility that he is scum looking for town credit from my mislynch; it's not something I feel is likely to be true though.
And I'm not happy with how my reads list looks yet. If you really want it then I will refine it for you and post it.
I stand by my stance that there was nothing scummy about it (though I guess that's just the semantics of the question). As for realising I guess you could say I've since realised there are flaws in my statement. Eg. some aspects I have since reconsidered and the information/phrasing of the initial question could have used some work. I also feel that there is, in general, some town pressure on the idea of my wagon eg. if you don't think what I did was scummy then that makes you look scummy. I feel I would have fallen for that initial pressure and unvoted later.In post 208, Lalendra wrote:Not to be sarcastic, but if this is the case, why did you ask it? Did you only realize how scummy it was after everyone pointed it out?In post 189, mutantdevle wrote:Not everyone on the wagon is irrational. Like I say, I would probably have been on the wagon myself if a wagon built around someone else asking the same question I did.
In post 209, Lalendra wrote:Was your post in which you said "lynchbait is bait to be lynched" not sarcastic? That was how I read it.In post 203, mutantdevle wrote:I don't get why you need to be sarcastic here other than to purposely be aggravating in a non-constructive way?In post 202, wilky wrote:Genius found.In post 201, mutantdevle wrote:I am under the impression someone who is lynchbait is bait to be lynched.
I didn't understand how what they were saying by describing textcat as lynchbait. So instead of assuming they were in the wrong, I took into consideration that perhaps the fault was on my part for not understanding the term. Over the last few weeks, I have been quickly learning a lot of new terms in mafia so it wouldn't be such a stretch to me if I simply misunderstood the term. Hence my post clarified that in case that was what was happening.
And I misspoke when I used that term I think. What I meant to say is that she is more likely to be either lynched or NK'd because of the attention brought to her. I still say that just because you felt it was "obvious" that her role was objectively the best because she had the opportunity to pick first doesn't necessitate you pointing that out. I'm also confused about your motivation for doing it in the sense that you mentioned that you only wanted a yes or no, not an actual claim, but on the other hand you also said that you were giving her an opening to claim comfortably. Which was it? Again, I feel that she could have easily claimed without having someone give her an opening, and that at best, asking her that question exposed her strategy quite early in the game.
The original town impression that it is scummy would have made me think it is scummy If I was not the one to be asking the question. I'm not yet familiar with what this website generally agrees is scummy and what isn't. As I'm the one defending the question rather than viewing a defence on it. Had I been in the other situation I likely would have left the situation believing that asking IF someone wants to role claim is always scummy and the only time you should ever mention someone else role claiming is if they are at L-1. As I have had to defend the question my opinion has remained the same that the question is not scummy since I've been forced to think about it more but instead I see how the logic behind the question is flawed.In post 211, wilky wrote:I don't like this. You would've joined the wagon if it was on someone else even though you don't think it's scummy I am now again rethinking my thought that you are town and starting to lean more too scum on you again.
I'm happy with that compromise.In post 211, wilky wrote:As town you should really always be refining your reads list. Doesn't stop you sharing it, how about even just letting us know the parts you're most confident of the way I see it the only thing you have committed too is that you think Creature is town.
For some reason, I remembered the words said in 86 to be said by pisskop. That also answers why I have slightly different opinions on the 2 as I didn't realise Viomi had played the setup before as well. Also, I'm generally not voting yet as I do not feel I am in any position to vote and I feel like my votes would just be interpreted as trying to bring attention away from myself. I guess you could consider my hypothetical vote on Viomi though.In post 216, MisaTange wrote:Oh, and if it wasn't clear, I think Mutant is newbtown too. Maybe could be Creature's scumpartner but that's about it.
The talk about pisskop reminds me how his response to "why did you post intent to hammer" pings me intensely btw, so here we go:
VOTE: pisskop
This is Viomi's second PYP according to 86, which brings me into my next point:
Why aren't you voting Viomi?
We never actually played with each other. Sorry if I didn't make that clear. It's just we both used to play this flash game: http://everybodyedits.com/ and hence we both used to use the forums. I didn't start using the forums regularly though until long after Creature left. When Creature was around they used to play mafia games in the 'forum games' section of the forum. Earlier this year, some of the people who used to play mafia with Creature decided to start up the semi-regular games again. When playing my first game, I read over a few of the old games so that I wasn't a complete idiot going into the game (and I wasn't, I literally caught a scum out on day 2 but no one listened to me until eventually they were outed for fake claiming which allowed us to figure out who their scum buddy was and win the game). When I joined this site, I recognised Creature in the Lobby chat as someone who both played and hosted games I had read over. I said a quick hello to him and we haven't talked since then until this game. So basically we don't really know each other that well but the shared sentiment of playing EE in the past as part of our internet childhood gives us something to connect over. I've tried not to let that sentiment cloud my judgement of him but I've probably failed at that. It's hard for me to recognise whether I truly do believe he is town or whether the EE sentiment makes me derp clear him.In post 244, Lalendra wrote:I find it funny that Creature keeps referring to mutant being newbtown when a) they've played on another site together and b) mutant has made it very clear that he is not new, that he has played before, and that he does not want to be discounted as a new player.
Viomi is the only one I truly think is scummy as I have already stated. IIRC, texcat didn't really give much of a reason for why she was voting for me as her vote just took place with her response to my question so I'd like her to explain that a bit more.In post 257, Creature wrote:mutantdevle, who are the scum on your wagon?
Lol hasn’t anyone told you that yes or no questions don’t work and make you look scummy?In post 305, Aster wrote:How about all of you answer the above question with something that contains a "yes" or a "no" and without beaing around the bush? Tomorrow I'll make a list of everyone's answers, everyone who has not answered, and everyone who is beating around the bush in their answer.
- Would you be okay with pisskop getting policy lynched at this point in the game?
I will always value a lynch over a no lynch. If pressured by time the only 2 things that would prevent me from lynching literally anyone is either if they are strongly confirmed town or they claim to be a PR (that I believe is town sided). This includes myself. Due to how this game works, y'all may find yourself pressured for time in future days which could lead various bad things such as making rushed decisions, not getting someone's input in time, or even ending in a no lynch. I will not be selfish in refuses to make the day run on any longer than it needs to when doing so could cause those 3 formerly mentioned issues for the town.In post 338, Chip Butty wrote:This doesn't make sense at all if you are town. If you are town then you know 100% you are town, and commonsense says a warm town body is more valuable than the time that would be saved.In post 335, mutantdevle wrote:I think most people have completely forgotten the time role over mechanic of this game.
Why us 2? It would be nice to know your thoughts since you've basically said nothing all day. And what reason could you possibly have for wanting to vote pisskop? Is he too inactive for you?In post 334, Assemblerotws wrote:I would be fine with lynching either Pisskop or mutant.
Why are we even going after pisskop alone for inactivity? Assemblerotws has said way less than pisskop has that it is literally impossible to read. At least pisskop's shitty reactions to us calling on him to be more active gives us scummy reads.
I’ve decided if either myself or pisskop reaches L-1 then I will hammer as to not unnecessarily waste time.
Like what?In post 339, Aster wrote:At any rate, there is more information than just about Creature to be had in lynching mutant.
We've learnt what people think of pisskop's behaviour. Had we lynched me there and then pisskop would still be under the radar. We've also learnt that Creature is defending purposely defending me without much justification. Additionally, we've learnt that some people think CommKnight is a little scummy but not enough to actually lynch her.In post 346, texcat wrote:For those of you who thought it was too early in the Day to lynch Mutant, can you tell us what you've learned by waiting?
You're not the only one that has said that but I fail to see what exactly any of you think you are going to learn. To be honest, what I think you are going to learn is:In post 347, MisaTange wrote:Mutant I think we'll get more information on regarding his flip
If you think you are going to learn anything about Creature then you are wrong. Regardless of what I flip, y'all are going to be wanting Creature's neck on the rope next. As Aster put it:In post 348, CommKnight wrote:Jack shit.
Hence you will learn nothing about Creature since a lot of people will see him as scum anyway.In post 339, Aster wrote:It also puts Creature in a no-win situation: if mutant is scum, Creature is buddying; if mutant is town, Creature is fishing for towncred.
I would accept this statement to be true if it was made before the wagon on me fell apart. But clearly, you have not read much of the second half of the day too well.In post 349, northsidegal wrote:anyone else noticing how mutant only seems to appear or talk when the wagon is on him, but when the focus is shifted away he mysteriously disappears? like, where are the verbose walls for scumhunting rather than just trying to convince everyone that you weren't rolefishing?
(I accidentally missed out his name specifically in my reads post.)In post 214, mutantdevle wrote:I agree with how not knowing scum are in the draft makes him seem like scum playing dumb. I recommend looking more into him after I'm misslynched
Something worth keeping me around for?In post 358, Lalendra wrote:Okay this made me lol.In post 356, mutantdevle wrote:To be honest, what I think you are going to learn is:In post 348, CommKnight wrote:Jack shit.
You never told us your theory. Sure I never properly role claimed but rereading this peaked my interest. So if you want to theorise about something then now is the time to do so.In post 184, northsidegal wrote:not sure about for the game in general, but i have a theory as to why mutant's been playing the way he has - i'd still like him to claim to see if it holds any water.
Are you serious? You don’t have to scroll up far to see the answer to that (which is also the second time I’ve explained why I’m not voting).In post 365, wilky wrote:@Mutant why aren't you voting Viomi then if that's your biggest scum reading or even doing much to build a case to make them lynchable?
I never said that no one town reads me. Clearly Creature does and many people have said they think I am a village idiot. My point is that being read as scum or being passed off as a village idiot makes my opinion worthless to most people. Furthermore, why would I make cases on people when players would just use it against me by claiming I am drawing attention away from my wagon. I guarantee that had I made a strong case on someone then there would at least be 1 person using this reason to claim I am scum.In post 367, wilky wrote:No I seen it I just don't think it answers the question much and all it says in my opinion is what is the point in you making cases if no one town reads you.In post 366, mutantdevle wrote:Are you serious? You don’t have to scroll up far to see the answer to that (which is also the second time I’ve explained why I’m not voting).In post 365, wilky wrote:@Mutant why aren't you voting Viomi then if that's your biggest scum reading or even doing much to build a case to make them lynchable?
I'll start trying to change people's opinions when people become willing to listen. I can't redeem myself if y'all don't let me. You are one of the few players who are willing to listen to me. If you don't believe me then just look at how Creature's opinions get shut down just because they think he might be scum for buddying me. Sure he doesn't go into much detail with his opinions, but considering people have a stronger scum read on me I doubt much of what I say would have any meaningful impact. I've been very vocal about what I think of people's actions and who I think is town vs who I think is scum, why do I need to push them? I'd argue that my passive scum hunting is far more contributory than most of the players here who are either sheeping on the easiest wagons without sharing their own thoughts or are just lurking and, for the most part, getting away with it.In post 367, wilky wrote:Another question would be why will anyone change their opinion of you if you won't make the effort to push your reads more and try change our opinion then?
If you want me to, I will make several posts outlining my thoughts on individuals with quotes and detail to back up my thoughts. But I'm reasonably busy IRL so it may take me time (which I'm not so sure we have) to write the posts. So if you are willing to give me the time to make a push on players I think are scummy then just ask me to do so. But just don't make me waste an hour or two of my life writing long walls if you are not going to read them or you honestly don't give a fuck. If you doubt your opinion of me could possibly change no matter what I say then don't bloody ask me.In post 224, mutantdevle wrote:Do you expect me to post paragraphs over why I feel a certain way about someone? Should I cite specific posts in my reads? Because I can if you want me to.
Certainly. I'm assuming you want it brief. I swear to god though if anyone asks me to elaborate on these reads then I'm just going to slam my face so hard into my desk that I break both my desk and my face.In post 371, Lalendra wrote:Could you share reads without writing walls? I think we have plenty of time in the day, and I for one am curious as to what you think of the current gamestate. I would also, to your point, like to see more/indepth posts from Creature.
All right as in she is alright for a lynch target or her behaviour is alright by town standards?In post 375, Creature wrote:Viomi seems alright I guess.