Prey Mafia - Game Over

[skitter30]

so i've always been nominally vla on fridays but now i'm like *really* vla on fridays; prob won't be able to post again till saturday night

[skitter30]

hello i have returned. i need to catch up tho

[skitter30]

Like I have no idea why town-you would out himself as VT with only one vote

...

did you just like skip reading the past ~4 pages where we talked about mass-claim and established mcqueen would go first?
this is a bizarre push to make in this context

If Persivul isn't lying about his role, he should check mcqueen tonight.

....
he checked mcqueen last night, you're aware of this because we talked about the implication of mcqueen turning up not phantom, you explained what phantom means to everyone

i'm so confused ... are you just like forgetting portions of the game that you participated in?

==

Btw..

@skitter (mainly) & @Town (in general): Add Varsoon to the unlynchables at will. This is such a crazy role to fake, either by Varsoon (who would think of such a role in a game he designs but not as a fake claim) or even if Xtoxm provided Scum with fake claims.

So, Varsoon, skitter, BEF & implo are clears IMHO.

i don't think he's clear, and i can see him faking something like this

==

Let me try being more direct. A scum lynch is impossible yesterday unless scum bus. What do you think then about the BEF and Zito wagons? How does scum play and where are they at?

there's almost for sure scum on the zito wagon given how easily it went through

==

Let me try being more direct. A scum lynch is impossible yesterday unless scum bus. What do you think then about the BEF and Zito wagons? How does scum play and where are they at?

I have no idea.
I'm really fuckin paranoid of BEF-scum.

go take a look at the eod vc and tell me where you think scum are

Then one of them flipping town is fine because we'll have the lynch tomorrow to get the other.

don't chain lynches

==

I don’t understand. There’s already a rather large neighborhood, which he is apart of. I find it hard to believe he has a neighborizer ability every day phase, unless those neighborhoods close after the day ends.

i don't know why being in a neighborhood makes that part of his role less likely

==

Okay but let's go through what has been claimed:
1. A bunch of 1-shot roles
2. NOTHING THAT CAN BE MULTITASKED

i don't get what part of htis game you're reading ....
a50 claimed a role that can be multitasked
i alluded to the fact that my role can be multitasked (although i odn't remember if i explicilty stated that)

==

1-shot Day Neighborising Motivator

oh ffs
if you're town here you're prob getting lynched and i take no responsibility for it

==

this is getting long, new post now

[skitter30]

@skitter: If you see this before you do, please do NOT claim.

I just LOVE to mess with scum's thoughts.

you think i oughtn't claim?

(i'm like three pages behind still but i'm keeping vague tabs on this page)

[skitter30]

honestly i still think bef is town

==

Go back and reread my garbage. I said I checked Percy, not you. Then I said I was looking for the third between you and Chara. Yet I said I had a guilty on you, which is obviously a lie.

yeah i was wondering
well at least i know you're town now so

==

Mow, does BEF's claim strike you as a "safe claim"? Does it look like Xtoxm gave him that to fake claim it? Unless -of course- you think BEF fake claimed his fake claim (i.e. threw away his mod-provided one and made up a new one on his own).

no, it doesn't, not even remotely
i don't think he made it up either
i don't think he plays it this badly if he's scum with partners either honestly

==

You know what? BEf is going to be lynched anyway. If he is Town it had better happen today than tomorrow. If he is Scum then I obviously am a fool and well, his lynch would be surprisingly even better.

VOTE: BEF

@Varsoon: I cannot be scum with not one but TWO investigative clears on me. Percy said he checked me on N1 and I'm not a Phantom (soft clear), and implosion said he checked me on N2 and I returned innocent. Actually, I still could be a Godfather, theoretically, but I also find it to be a stretch to assume my role returns innocent to all investigative abilities in the game.

a) technically persivul got a no-result onto you (and no part of your role explains this, right?)
b) yeah i still think he's town and i guess i'd rather his inevitable lynch happen today than tomorrow but like i'm really not happy about it

==

See how soon Varsoon jumped on the wagon to put BEF @ L-1? At least that means there's one scum off the wagon still, so Varsoon+Elbrin+Chara, perhaps? In that case Percy was meant to catch Elbrin specifically??

Bruh what? V

arsoon is mechanically town

. Why is his willingness to jump on a potential scum wagon equal to there being at least 1 scum off of it?

Not that your statement is necessarily wrong, but how are those two events connected?

.... why is varsoon mechanically town?

I’m gonna sound retarded but I didn’t see contradictions. It seemed like they were, but I didn’t find any. Except the Varsoon being scun thing.

VOTE: Almost50

I’m not sure I trust whatever you’re pulling.

Yeah i want to remove my vote, but if you are going to lynch someone you think is town “because they’re getting lynched anyway,” i have no problem keeping my vote on you despite a softclear and a clear from someone who’s scumread.

bad vote

So I’m scum off a bad reaction. When Almost is voting someone he thinks is town. Okay.

yeah I get yesterday was not my day, but you yourself said activity is NAI, so don’t think about bringing that up as an excuse for a read

yes, your reaction was quite awful (you didn't think about anything he said, and your reason for voting him is bad)

i empathize with a50's reaction *quite* a bit - have you never been in the scenario where you know somebody is town but you think it'll be better for the long-term gamestate just to lynch them and get it over with? i have. and i think if bef is town and that his lynch is probably inevitable at this point
i don't want it to happen but if it is it's better today tahn tomorrow

So you think implosion is scum but buy his inno on Almost????? Hahaha but I’m dumb for believing Almost’s post

i don't think implosion innos his partner + a50 is independantly town
so irregardless of implosion's alignment a50 is probably town

Or he lied about his role and the inno altogether??? You act as if that’s not possible?? If inno is scum, Almost can be scum, too. You might be the third.

... i gave implosion the cop shot. i know he has one. i can't vouch for the veracity of the result or that implosion actually used it but he def got it
(unless you think i'm scum with all of them too?)

==

but i'm still townreading Varsoon. i do think it's more likely scum is in Fish/Percy. but only one of them could be scum and i hate lynching in there right now because Percy can get more results and Fish's claim and everything around that claim is so strange coming from scum.

i'm kinda scumreading varsoon at this point

==

So my logic follows, while yours is not all-encompasing, I point that out, you default to me being scum. You also say “no duh” to my townread of Varsoon, and while mechanical observations are easy to fake, XTOXM MESSED UP THE VCS DURING THE GAME WHICH BASICALLY CONFIRMS VARSOON’S ROLE. So yeah, he’s cleared from fakeclaiming, and he’s mechanically town because giving scum a basically unkillable role for the price of a single lost vote is pretty overpowered. YET YOU STILL TOWNREAD HIM, TOO!

VOTE: Chara

???? he isn't mechanically town
he proved the voteless, it has nothing to do with his alignment
i think losing a vote in exchange for being unkillable is a pretty sweet deal and i don't see much wrong with it balance wise
i don't get why you're voting chara here

==

mcqueen can you describe your scumgame? do you like town or scum better?

==

i actually kinda agree with chara, that mcqueen believes most of what he's saying.
i think i prefer implosion or varsoon rn

==

i'm sure you can figure out my night 1 target. my night 2 was skitter. (sorry if i fucked up one of your abilities, skitter. on the bright side i believe i stopped the kill.)

you did, but that's ok!
thanks

==

Wait, Chara, how do we know you stopped the kill and you're not just a scum roleblocker/stopper and that's been on Skitter and you're taking credit for kill hitting my commute?

come on, really?
we talked about this already - i would be *quite* shocked if you were the nk last night

==

^^^ THAT should be reason enough for YOU to vote BEF.

Like, check his early play TODAY where he ignored Varsoon's claim and insisted there was a protector somewhere (Varsoon even FoS'd him for it) and put 2 & 2 together. You

did

save skitter's life it seems, and BEF knew it and was wondering why she survived the NK.

LYNCH BEF!

actually this is fair
i still think his claim is real though - why doesn't he just like target one of his partners?

[skitter30]

i'm willing to concede that i won't get my implosion lynch today. thanks to

somebody

, not naming names, we have a mislynch ti work with.

i'll vote implosion now
VOTE: implosion

(obvs i didn't want to yesterday because of hte cop-shot thing)

==

Yes I do. Don't claim. They have enough info already.

ok fair enough

i'm still going to say that if persy is scum there isn't nearly enough investigative power
(there's literally just a cop shot and whatever you have, but you claimed not to have any investigative abilities)

[skitter30]

also elbirn's fruit vendor thing went unclaimed, unless that's a50 (he doesn't have to claim now if he doesn't want to)
i think all other mechanical things have been answered/clarified. as far as i remember

[skitter30]

no i think they claimed they were on persivul (i hadn't read that far when i asked that, sorry)

[skitter30]

unfortunately i'm an ascetic jailkeeper, not an ascetic jailkeeper who can flip my rolecard for you.
there's no way to know. you either believe that what i did makes sense or you don't.
and i was on Persivul night 1, to be clear.

[skitter30]

i want to lynch implosion or varsoon today i think

[skitter30]

I really don't think he's scum though :/
My reads have not been super great this game so like ita very possible i'm wrong but i'm not seeing it rn

I do agree with the point that if he's town i'd rather the mislynch happen today than tomorrow tho
I just dont like it very much

[skitter30]

Also @a50 - if chara is scum where do you think the nk went
Also i think i may have gotten roleblocked (i dont know for sure but there's something indicating that it may have happened)

[skitter30]

i ... have no idea what that post means
honestly i don't think varsoon was townread enough to have been the nk last night
if i were scum i never would have nk'd him there

[skitter30]

Also i think i may have gotten roleblocked (i dont know for sure but there's something indicating that it may have happened)

Chara also claimed having targeted you on N2. Like, please don't make me want to add you to the "not reading the game" list!

i know, that's my point, i'm saying that i could have been roleblocked
(i don't know for sure again but something in particular points in that direction)
you were doubting chara and i'm saying that for me this makes it slightly more likely they're teling the truth about last night

[skitter30]

scum!him's options are either to:
a) claim he never got it
b) give a result on somebody

are you saying that you think a) is more likely?
why tho?

or are you asking why you in particular? idk

@implosion: why did you check a50 in particular?

[skitter30]

also yeah this game feels kinda hard to solve, i agree

[skitter30]

what do you think of implosion's first post today knowing that he had been given a copshot n1?
i read it and it felt really off, which is why i started 20 questions
i don't know why it felt off tho

[skitter30]

no idea tbh, i was wondering that
i think he said something about checking one of his nullreads or something, which is plausible

eh you had something for why scum!him doesn't do this, let me read it again

[skitter30]

@a50:
i will consult your reads and am willing to consider the notion of town!implosion but i can't promsie i'll never go after him if i still think he's scum in a dayphase or two

Remember the game with RC? Remember how implosion (and PP) were SRing me right off the bat? That's exactly what happens all the time, so it makes perfect sense for implosion to use that Cop shot on me from my PoV.

Scum!him would have NOT cleared me.

He could have claimed to have targeted just about anyone else (like Varsoon, who has already claimed a Commuter TODAY, but he didn't before, so implosion would have been justified to target him and have wasted the investigation shot).

Motives, my friend. Motives, alternative options, playstyle (meta), and MECHANICS are my tools to scum hunt, and my analysis says implosion is as Town as you and BEF are.

ok, why doesn't scum!him try to clear you?

[skitter30]

implosion's post did kinda feel partner-y with mcqueen
and i don't like that he's prioritizing lynching inside the hood

i don't know why percy is still alive, and i don't townread his play (besides for the fact that if he's scum he's screwed after getting a town!bef lynch). i still don't think there's nearly enough investigative power tho if he's scum

oh before i forget - i think there's probably scum in the {implosion/mcqueen/elbirn} set (people who claimed vt or 'unmodifiable vt')

idk if implosion is scum who do you think a better 'check' would have been?

[skitter30]

the most significant part of my role imo is giving out a cop shot

i have no problem claiming the rest now really (or at least, most of it) but if multiple people are saying i don't have to i guess i won't

[skitter30]

yeah, same
i couldnl't really figure out how to give it to tho
my second-best person was a50 but i felt like it would induce quite a lot of wifom for him to claim he had a 1s cop result that wouldn't necessarily be believed

[skitter30]

i'm honestly not entirely sure what to do with the rest of my role either so

[skitter30]

idk if implosion is scum who do you think a better 'check' would have been?

Hmmm.. I dunno. Assuming both BEF & Percy are Town; a clear on one was likely to get the other lynched today.

fair enough
if one of them is scum tho i think that just leads to the scum!one getting lynched

honestly maybe there's just scum in there, it would explain a lot idk

[skitter30]

i could vote varsoon too btw

[skitter30]

yeah there weren't that many people i felt comfortable giving it to and/or were eligible to get it (ie chara was ascetic so couldn't)

(one of the reasons why i was so insistent on a flip day1 is cuz i needed one to firm up my reads on like half the pl to help me figure out who would be a decent choice)

i settled on implosion, which wasn't a *great* pick but for a variety of reasons i felt like was probably the least bad choice

[skitter30]

VOTE: varsoon

[skitter30]

i mean a no-lynch doesn't seem to get us very far tbh, we'd be in the exact same situation tomorrow + a flip on you/me/chara most likely which isn't very illuminating + a phantom result from persivul maybe tha tyou odn't trust

i think no-lynching won't put us in a better position tomorrow really

if you want to talk about various lynch options and what we should do next depending on the flip we can do that

[skitter30]

Ok then..

If you both (Chara & skitter) think implo+mcqueen are a team then why not lynch mcqueen first? mcqueen >> implo makes better sense because Percy cleared mcqueen. A green flip here clears both Percy and implo IMHO, and a red flip makes them both more likely scum.

i guess i just don't see the point of the no-lynch; we won't really be getting much valuable info overnight imo

i think ideally i would prefer: implosion = varsoon > mcqueen > persivul

i guess i'm a little wary rn about compromising because i remembered that there may be a 3p floating about and in 9p: 3scum + 1 3p = i think today might be lylo depending on the nature of the theoretical 3p.

what do you think about lynching varsoon?

also agian the fact that pretty much everyone is fine with scum in {implosion/mcqueen} (except for like ... implosion and bef and maybe mcqueen) i find worrying

i don't think a green mcqueen flip clears persy *or* implosion, if anything, i think it makes scum!implosion that much more likely. like i'm running out of places scum can be and if someone in my poe is town then the other people in the poe are more likely to be scum imo

i also kinda feel like elbirn is sliding under the radar rn

if you won't entertain implosion or varsoon today i could probably be talked into mcqueen but it's not ideal, i guess, if that makes sense

[skitter30]

Yeah, I think A50's dead on with the associatives and if it isn't implosion/mcqueen/one of percy-BEF then you fuckers have snowed me thoroughly.

should i be voting you rn {y/n}?
if you're town help me see it because atm i don't and i think you're my preferred lynch today

also remind me again what your reads are and who you want to lynch today?

[skitter30]

i guess i forgot varsoon's reads from catching up last night; i'll look them over again in a bit

i guess with implosion i'm historically bad at reading him (i think i townread him - at least initially - in all three games i've played with him and he was scum ... twice) so i don't trust my own read there super much

and if a50 is really strongly townreading him i want to at least entertain the notion because he might have better accuracy on implosion than i do but i don't really see town!implosion rn.

i think at least in part that his scumgame is at least superficially like mine in that he starts running out of wim/motivation to keep the game moving as the game progresses. like he can keep up with the posting in the beginning but as time goes on he posts less and less and there's just less gamesolving momentum as time goes on, and i definitely see that happening here

@implosion this is my impression from that mini normal like ~around a year ago, if your scumgame has changed significantly sorry (i think this game and that game have similar mid/late-game gamestates too); i'm basing this off of games i've actually played with scum!you

[skitter30]

Nonono for FUCKS SAKE

UNVOTE:
VOTE: BEF

To be clear in case the soup above is unreadable, I never voted percy

@xtoxm can you fix my fucked up quote? Halp

I've got you.

ok, would you vote implosion first then?

[skitter30]

i'm home sick today so i guess i'll see which of my townreads are deserved or not.

feel better btw

i think you're the major protective of this setup, but instead of just being a flat-out protective you also roleblock the person you're protecting

you kinda reduce swing
there's a bunch of measures built in to reduce swing from my pov (there's *a bunch* of measures built in around negating people's action - enter was a 1s commuter, varsoon has claimed commuter, you're ascetic, elbirn, you're a rolestopper)

also i just remember we have a flipped commuter already, just pointing this out for varsoon

i still would be quite surprised if the only investigative we have is a one-shot cop that i might give to scum by mistake

[skitter30]

i still would be quite surprised if the only investigative we have is a one-shot cop that i might give to scum by mistake

especially given the like six different ways it might get negated or not be received

[skitter30]

It'd be far too swingy to have a role intended to positively interact

with exactly one other town role

and only in early game.

this isn't true btw
(and i've said as such multiple times i'm pretty sure)

[skitter30]

Implosion is almost certainly scum. If I wasn't voting to solve in the BEF-Percival PoE, this is where my vote would be.

so since neither me/chara are really interested in bef today can i interest you in voting implosion instead?

[skitter30]

If I had an ability and someone stopped me from using it, I'd be like, "WHERE IS THAT SCUM MOTHERFUCKER?"

a) i don't know if i was roleblocked (i don't get feedback from the mod and it didn't really occur to me until chara said they roleblock/rolestopped me last night)

b) i'd rather be protected + roleblocked than dead given what i did last night

[skitter30]

if there had been no kill night 1, i would have tried my hardest to power lynch Percy.

i was already very confident in skitter town. i'm not going to flip my read on her because i also roleblocked her and could have stopped the kill. what's more likely, that skitter is town who was townread by the entire list and thus targeted by scum, or that she's scum who decided to perform the kill in spite of being the most townread scum in the game? (because in a hypothetical scum skitter world, she's the deep scum.)

she's town. my protect makes her conf, but her play makes her town. i've seen scum skitter and she just can't maintain this.

in the theoretical scum!me universe i do all the kills here, 100%
and no, i can't maintain this, i'm holistically pretty far out of my range

[skitter30]

skitter: i think that's a really good few posts from town Varsoon. i,'m not interested in lynching him anymore and he's being consistent with his town self. he actually was a few posts earlier than that but it was more minor and i needed to be more sure than "hm, maybe."

ok
VOTE: implosion

[skitter30]

To be 10000% clear, I'll vote implo if necessary but bef is my preference. I think a bef flip gives so much more information, practically clears percy (unless you think theres two hood scum, I sure dont), practically guilties implo (see my last post), and just...yeah. whereas an implo scum flip gives us a dead scum, sure, but I dont know what else from it.

Frankly I want bef dead first because it makes it easier to get implo afterwards, in a way that we dont get from lynching implo first, and I'm a manipulative little shit because I dont want everyone to forget about bef tomorrow, especially if I'm not around to death tunnel him.

a) you're assuming bef will flip scum and i'm still not sure that's a thing
b) you also think you're dying tonight which i find really unlikely
c) the people pushing bef are largely in my poe so ...

[skitter30]

okay skitter shh you don't need to stoke my lingering paranoia. you're town.

pedit: so you agree? i'd like your feedback on it and hope you aren't only trusting me there.

i'm not vibing town!varsoon as strongly as you are tbh
not sure i vibe it at all actually

i don't have a *great* track record at reading him but i still don't like how he was assuming he's the reason for the missing nk? he's good with setup spec, and the notion that there might have been some other way for the nk to go missing completely goes beyond him? idk to me at least it's like painfully obvious that he wasn't a viable nk last night

and in his most recent post he concedes that it's most likely that you protected me but i don't know why he thinks that now, i'm kinda wondering if he switched his opinion to stop getting flak over his original stance

i want to lynch in {implosion/varsoon} today and if you don't want varsoon that's ok i'm happy with implosion

[skitter30]

UNVOTE:

[skitter30]

uh are you just hanging around to l-1 people?

[skitter30]

uhhhh this is really weird
where are all the implosion votes coming from all of the sudden?

[skitter30]

@chara fair enough

[skitter30]

uh yeah i was kinda thinking both of those things
mcqueen's vote looks like a bus (or a bad attempt to get a quickhammer on town!implosion). bef's does a little bit too honestly

i was also thinking that it might be a reaction to you calling out that it's been really hard to get implosion votes

[skitter30]

VOTE: mcqueen

no offense but that was a really really suspicious vote

[skitter30]

nope nope nope nope
you don't get to change your claim after mass-claim when you're under pressure for a bad vote, that's not how massclaim works

popping in to make a l-1 vote but failing to interact with significant happenings is quite bad

and i don't think it's quite accurate to portray the situation as being between just you and implosion

[skitter30]

UNVOTE:
i want mcqueen to full-claim
pretty sure he's scum here but i want to hear it anyways

[skitter30]

I love this -insane- game.

me too!

[skitter30]

you're getting lynched if you don't claim
(honestly you're probably getting lynched if you do claim but it'll definitely happen if you don't)

i mean to put it quite simply:
1. the person asking you is the person you've been professing a townread on all day
2. you lied during massclaim (which was agreed upon by all the people i townread)
3. you had an awful l-1 vote just now
4. you feel the need to specify that you aren't 3p here ... ?

p-edit loved in the sense that you need an extra vote to get lynched?

[skitter30]

you're the person townreading varsoon for his lack of vote, right?

ok explain why you think both you and varsoon are town

[skitter30]

why do you think you aren't getting lynched today

[skitter30]

... you're not getting nk'd this game
the mislynch pool is fairly tight and killing in that pool if you're town is dumb
loved isn't something to get nk'd over here

[skitter30]

give me one sec i'm trying to find a post

[skitter30]

With me being unable to vote, though, for us to lynch scum, literally every town player has to be voting for scum.
It's very likely that if we can get a lynch on scum, scum are bussing it.

so if varsoon is town and mcqueen is scum it would have been literally impossible to get a scum lynch yesterday without bussing, right?

[skitter30]

and if they're both town ...
yesterday would have been impossible to get a lynch on scum + hard for scum to lynch town!mcqueen too

p-edit yeah i meant lynch on scum!you, not on scum in general

idk

does it go away in lylo?

also i thought you were going to claim something else

also why do you think you're never getting lynched today?

how do you think your role interacts with varsoon's?

[skitter30]

honestly i'm a little confused by the gamestate rn and i feel like i have a reason to townread like everyone which obvs isn't a thing which si a problem

[skitter30]

ok VOTE: mcqueen
feel free to confirm this

p-edit a50 is town

[skitter30]

UNVOTE:

[skitter30]

i kidna want to go back to implosion but all the fast implosion votes kinda spooked me

[skitter30]

ok and we're not lynching a50 today, it's just not an option, so stop voting him

(or chara for that matter but you don't seem to be actively going after them)

[skitter30]

@a50 is it normal for town!bef to wagon hop?

[skitter30]

VOTE: implosion

[skitter30]

rip chara

i'm pretty sure persivul is town (otherwise implosion decided to start day3 bussing his partner with the flavor-cop claim)
i think elbirn is scum and that bef is the designated mislynch

VOTE: elbirn

other scum is in {varsoon/mcqueen} imo

i would like to hear persivul's result and a50's action, if he'd like to share it

[skitter30]

rn because you wouldn't vote implosion yesterday

bef could have just motivated implosion, *literally* no reason to claim it in the neighborhood pt and for his claim to unfold that way instead of just using it on a partner; implosion's good enough with mechanics to just have him motivate him. even if he was like disloyal or something i still have no idea why he even thinks about claiming there.

his votes are all god-awful but i think they're probably in the too-scummy-to-be-scum range, and if i had to guess implosion is probably the strongest pr of the scumteam and i don't think he lol-hammers his partner there like that

(aside when i asked mcqueen to claim yesterday i thought he was going to claim tracker and/or watcher and i would have taken that as a scumclaim, part of my role loosely points to scum having tracker/watcher abilities)

[skitter30]

fair enough
yeah he's a phantom cop, still want to hear his result.

you vouching for implosion yesterday makes me *slightly* more paranoid of you

[skitter30]

If bef were town, implo would have gone down pushing him, not percy.

I can keep doing this 4d chess expanding brain meme if yall want but I think you get the idea

so you think we had two competing wagons on scum yesterday?
ie it went from bef (who failed to use his claimed action) to implosion, the scum pr?

Spoiler:

VC 3.12

[4] BrightEyedFish:

Elbirn, Persivul, Almost50, Varsoon

[2] implosion:

Chara, skitter30

[1] Persivul:

implosion

[2] Not Voting:

BrightEyedFish, mcqueen

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch

The Day 3 deadline is in

: (expired on 2019-02-21 19:00:00)

VC 3.14

[3] implosion:

Chara, Varsoon, mcqueen

[2] BrightEyedFish:

Persivul, Elbirn

[1] Persivul:

implosion

[3] Not Voting:

BrightEyedFish, Almost50, skitter30

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch

The Day 3 deadline is in

: (expired on 2019-02-21 19:00:00)

VC 3.15

[3] mcqueen:

Chara, BrightEyedFish, Almost50

[2] implosion:

Varsoon, mcqueen

[2] BrightEyedFish:

Persivul, Elbirn

[1] Persivul:

implosion

[1] Not Voting:

skitter30

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch

The Day 3 deadline is in

: (expired on 2019-02-21 19:00:00)

what are scum doing in these vcs? ^^^

[skitter30]

rip chara

i'm pretty sure persivul is town (otherwise implosion decided to start day3 bussing his partner with the flavor-cop claim)
i think elbirn is scum and that bef is the designated mislynch

VOTE: elbirn

other scum is in {varsoon/mcqueen} imo

i would like to hear persivul's result and a50's action, if he'd like to share it

You realize A50 is basically scum now? Like implosion definitely faked that cop inno on him.

... so instead of voting a50 you're voting bef because ...?

like i said i'm a little more paranoid of him, pretty sure he's still town tbh

[skitter30]

rn because you wouldn't vote implosion yesterday

bef could have just motivated implosion, *literally* no reason to claim it in the neighborhood pt and for his claim to unfold that way instead of just using it on a partner; implosion's good enough with mechanics to just have him motivate him. even if he was like disloyal or something i still have no idea why he even thinks about claiming there.

his votes are all god-awful but i think they're probably in the too-scummy-to-be-scum range, and if i had to guess implosion is probably the strongest pr of the scumteam and i don't think he lol-hammers his partner there like that

(aside when i asked mcqueen to claim yesterday i thought he was going to claim tracker and/or watcher and i would have taken that as a scumclaim, part of my role loosely points to scum having tracker/watcher abilities)

1. I'm sorry I wasnt here to acquire the goodboi points for voting for the right scum, jk idc

2. His claim is 999% a lie

3. Too scummy to be scum isnt a thing

4. Scum hammers scum for explicitly that reason and no other lynch was possible yesterday except for maybe one on himself, survivalism is null, hammering a buddy makes you look like a goodboi (see point 1 where you push me for NOT voting implo)

1. i asked you to vote implosion yesterday, you replied and said you'd rather bef

2. who on earth comes up with a day-motivating-neighborizer claim as scum and then *puts themselves in a position to fuck up using it and make themselves look bad* by not being able to verify it when he could have claimed like anything else on the planet, like vt or something

3. of course it's a thing

4. implosion's pretty obviously a strong scum pr (and a stronger player than bef here like always). if one of them is going down anyways why doesn't implosion just bus bef for the cred instead of the other way around.

[skitter30]

You see, scum are 2 of BEF. Elbrin & mcqueen. If they both are voting BEF he's the likely town of the 3 because if he is scum with either of them his p wouldn't be bussing him that early, would they?

well it's more like if bef and elbirn are scum together he's been trying to bus him since like day1

and i don't like that mcqueen thinks you're scum but is voting bef here

[skitter30]

like i said i'm a little more paranoid of him, pretty sure he's still town tbh

i acknowledged that you think he's scum; i'm saying that i don't really care rn because i'm pretty sure he's town

(again, slightly more paranoid because he was backing up implosion yesterday but overall i'm like ~85% certain he's town, which is a lot more than i can say for nearly anyone else here)

[skitter30]

cool cool

[skitter30]

if bef was scum why did the wagon go from him to implosion

[skitter30]

@a50 i thought it was you
but i thought you could gain benefit by getting motivated? is it just that you target more than one person a night?

[skitter30]

1. This is actual and factual. My confidence in bef scum is such that if I were a shittier player I'd have faked a guilty on him. I won't make any excuses about my lynch preference but I think it's kinda shitty that I'm gonna get hell for not voting implo when I was enjoying my Saturday and yall decided to quick lynch with 4 days left and with me afk but sure. I made it clear I'd vote for either and have been pushing them as a pair since yesterday soo

To be 10000% clear, I'll vote implo if necessary but bef is my preference. I think a bef flip gives so much more information, practically clears percy (unless you think theres two hood scum, I sure dont), practically guilties implo (see my last post), and just...yeah. whereas an implo scum flip gives us a dead scum, sure, but I dont know what else from it.

Frankly I want bef dead first because it makes it easier to get implo afterwards, in a way that we dont get from lynching implo first, and I'm a manipulative little shit because I dont want everyone to forget about bef tomorrow, especially if I'm not around to death tunnel him.

my point is that you preferred bef over implosion
i get taht the wagon happened fast and that you weren't around; i was surprised at how fast it happened too. i'm not objecting to the fact that you never ended up on the wagon perse, more that you preferred bef over implosion for reasons that i don't understand

like you not actually being on the wagon isn't really the problem, this quote is

[skitter30]

@skitter: Yup. I only wanted to me motivated to verify BEF tbh, and I didn't care if I was shot over you.

you have a certain number of shots, right? and as far as we can tell you're basically a fruit vendor?
i'm pretty sure bef's thing meant to be used on me tbh
(or on implosion since he's a joat)

[skitter30]

if bef was scum why did the wagon go from him to implosion

Because the implo wagon was town driven? chara made that happen. The genesis of the implo wagon, in a world where implo and bef are scumbuddies, only doesnt make sense if you're assuming that scum drive the implo wagon, which isnt what happened.

Unless you have another point which I've missed entirely?

4. implosion's pretty obviously a strong scum pr (and a stronger player than bef here like always). if one of them is going down anyways why doesn't implosion just bus bef for the cred instead of the other way around.

basically this point ^^^

[skitter30]

shot-limited or not?
i think if you're shot limited you could be motivated maybe?

[skitter30]

yeah the motivation was basically for me then
(or implosion)

i don't believe that's a scum fake-claim

[skitter30]

I think I believe A50's claim for now. Back to BEF VOTE: BEF

Which claim? The real one or the fake one? Remember this is a game where we know scum have fake claims.

he's proven the claim as being real (you got targeted last night, remember?), so it doesn't make sense for it to be a fake-claim
whether or not the claim has anything to do with his alignment is an entirely different story

also @mcqueen why does his claim prompt you to not vote him anymore?

[skitter30]

2. who on earth comes up with a day-motivating-neighborizer claim as scum and then *puts themselves in a position to fuck up using it and make themselves look bad* by not being able to verify it when he could have claimed like anything else on the planet, like vt or something

Can you clarify your position on this? It seems like you're saying that the role makes no sense as a fake claim...yet does make sense as a real town role. Mod gave fakeclaims. If a role makes sense to you as real for town, then it should also make sense as a mod-supplied fake claim for scum. That's the point of mod fake claims.

yeah. it's not that i don't believe that i can be a fake-claim perse, it's more that i don't think that scum with that fake-claim randomly decides to announce it in the neighborhood pt n1 and purposefully put themselves in a scenario where they wouldn't be able to confirm

like why go through that song-and-dance in the first place? like on n1 why bother claiming something they can't prove? like why does that whole sequence of events happen in the first place?


like it's not that i believe it can't be a fake-claim, more that i believe that scum with this is a fake-claim don't behave this way

[skitter30]

If bef is town, why didn't implosion hammer when he had the chance? (TBF I haven't checked to see if imp was online during the L-1 on fish.)

i don't know if he was online, but he didn't post while that hammer was at l-1

[skitter30]

persivul's really townie rn imo

[skitter30]

With chara/skitter leading on implo, yes, a bus is possible there. Considering the speed of that wagon it's very possible. Five town coming together that quickly seems unlikely.

i still think that if both implosion and bef are scum that implosion tries to bus bef, rather than the other way around
i think scum on that wagon is mcqueen or maybe varsoon

[skitter30]

eh maybe i should claim now

[skitter30]

Mate.. if I was Roleblocked then you wouldn't have been, and if you haven't been blocked you would get a result on me even if I was RB'd. The fact you didn't get a result on me = YOU were RB'd regardless. What was confusing me was if you were RB'd that doesn't stop MY action from resolving on you. Got it yet?

No, I don't. Why couldn't one of us have been jailed and the other blocked?

you being jailed explains both (a50's role failed to work on you, and you failed to get a result)
no reason to invent new rbs to explain what happened; if a50 had been blocked he would have gotten the 'Loud nightmare typhon' thing from implosion as far as i can tell; that doesn't seem to have happened

[skitter30]

i don't get the rb/jk argument tbh

[skitter30]

let me repeat that for emphasis!

@skitter, @Varsoon, @Elbrin, @BEF

It almost sounds like you know something I don't.. like .. you sound confident implosion didn't block me on N1, for instance??

This was directed @Percy

i don't know what you're trying to say here ....
you didn't claim a mysterious typhon nightmare thing happening to you n1, it's reasonable to assume that implosion didn't block you

[skitter30]

1. I targeted BEF and got not a phantom.

2. I had no problem with a chara/skitter town bloc, but then yesterday A50 somehow wormed himself into it. They decide we're having mass claim, but when it gets to A50's turn, they decide we no longer need to mass claim. I've never seen that happen before. I need to go back and see who first said that the bloc didn't need to claim. I was going to raise this point yesterday, but...

3. That lynch happened unusually fast.

im gonna sound dumb but phantom=scum right?

so your result clears him if you’re telling the truth

is this a townslip? an attempted townslip?

[skitter30]

i don't really think a50 is scum
mcqueen do you like playing scum? do you consider yourself to be good at scum?

[skitter30]

Tell me you're conditional Vig. If you're not, just lie to me, please. *Praying*

nah, although i thought a vig might exist, but it doesn't look like it

i'm an inventor; i had 4 shots to give out
i gave out the cop shot n1 to implosion; obvs this wasn't the best decision

n2 i tried to give a bg shot out, but i was protected (and thus roleblocked) so i don't think it went anywhere, and it never got claimed (that's why i said i could have been roleblocked because it didn't get claimed)

n3 i didn't do anything because chara was supposed to protect/rb me again

and so i have two shots left, not sure if i should claim them; their utility is kinda meh rn i think; but i'm prob dying tonight so i'll give out the more useful one; not sure who to give it to yet

and motivator would have worked on me. namely, say, n1 if i had been motivated i could have given out more than one shot, like: i could have given player A the cop shot and player B the bg shot on the same night

the flavor is that i'm a neuromod installer; the one post of elbirn's that i liked is that he claimed way back when that neuromods don't work on him; i felt like if he were scum, there's no reason to claim that; he could have just soaked up the shots without them doing anything

[skitter30]

oh and the people i was townreading the most day1 were elbirn and chara which is why i was kinda unsure who to give the copshot to since they were both ineligible

[skitter30]

rn i think elbirn is scum; last scum is in {mcqueen/varsoon} imo

still think you and bef are town, i'm town, and i think persi too; i don't believe that the literally only town-aligned investigative in this game is a cop-shot that i could have (and did) give to scum; i'm pretty sure persi should be town on setup spec

[skitter30]

oh i guess i might as well say this since it isn't going anywhere i'm pretty sure: one of the remaining shots is a ninja shot, which loosely pointed to scum having watcher/tracker; i would have thought a claim of either to be scum-indicative

[skitter30]

yeah well the reason why i didn't give it to bef even thought i was townreading him is because i didn't particularly trust him to make a good check ('good' being defined as one that i wanted to happen)

[skitter30]

yes, he did, that's my point

i want elbirn rn

i'm *slightly* paranoid taht i've been pocketed by you tho given how strongly you were vouching for implosion yesterday

[skitter30]

ok, now let's talk about how strongly you were vouching for implosion yesterday

[skitter30]

ah fuck, sorry
implosion had a loud rb thing, but my last shot is an rb shot; if i give it to scum by mistake again they'll have one (but i'll also say who i gave it to so hopefully they can't do that many shenanigans hopefully?)

and i was probably going to give it to you
i can just hold it tho; it doens't have to go anywhere

ok let me process all of this for a bit

[skitter30]

? why

[skitter30]

Hi. How likely am I to be able to convince you to consider a worldview in which you don't shoot me? Alternatively, to admit to fakeclaiming once again to get a reaction?

uh, it doesn't make sense to at once ask him not to shoot you (hence believing the claim) and also at the same time asking him to admit to fake-claiming

i'm pretty sure it's true this time around, there were a few things niggling at the back of my mind wrt the fruit vendor claim (especially how yesterday he had gone through an incredibly similar thought process as me wrt how the motivator might interact with his claim). i think it's true. i'm pretty sure he's town

i don't think he's aligned with the people he flexifoamed or whatever it's called

[skitter30]

You're literally confirmed town thanks to my role, congratulations.

? why

Because my role (can't be modified/role changed/whatever) necessitates the existence of a town role such as yours that gives out abilities or power ups. That's literally it, nothing else.

why does it necessitate the existance of a *town* role?

[skitter30]

OK, but please don't give ME anything. I am already loaded with 5 different nights of action, not including N1, so that's why I though BEF's role

must

have been designed to be used on me. I don't think the game lasts 6 days and nights for me to use up all my shots if I can't use 2 abilities on the same night.

yeah fair enough, i also do think it could have been used on me (i had four nights of action), and implosion, and i think if it's a real role and he's scum he could have just used it on implosion and fake-claimed vt or something
i think you're town

i'm still thinking through your lynch mcqueen/shoot elbirn thing

[skitter30]

any idea who i should give the rb to? or should i just hold it so that i don't give it to scum

[skitter30]

oh also i thought there might have been a vig because i could give out a bp shot, but i ultimately decided that probably wasn't a thing since there's been no evidence of a vig shot happening

[skitter30]

bleh it just occurred to me that you might be a 3p or something

[skitter30]

yeah i'll prob just holster' i'm not compulsive or anything

i kinda want to give out the rb in case there's one scum and we can try to get an rb inno but idk if i'll ive that long and i don't want to give it to scum by mistake; that's probably more problematic than giving the cop-shot to scum

[skitter30]

i'm really nervous about the universe where there's a 3p and we mislynch today
if we mislynch and there's a scum kill we're down to 3:2 tomorrow but if there's a 3p it might be 2:2:1 and maybe we just lose
and if we mislynch and you hit town and there's a scum kill it's 2:2 tomorrow irregardless of whether or not there's a 3p

[skitter30]

ok to summarize:

-> i'm pretty sure persivul and a50 are town (or at least, that a50 is not scum)

-> there's two scum in {elbirn/varsoon/bef/mcqueen}

-> people in this group repeatedly trying to lynch bef makes me think he's probably not scum

so 2/3 scum are in {elbirn/varsoon/mcqueen} imo

[skitter30]

if he gets hammered here i'll be incredibly pissed
at least unvote for now

[skitter30]

yeah so like i'd appreciate it if a lolhammer didn't happen here

[skitter30]

and i really don't want him to be at l-1 either in order to help prevent that from happening

[skitter30]

yeah i know i was talking to mcqueen i guess; don't think persivul will be on till tomorrow morning
VOTE: varsoon

[skitter30]

bef will aslo probably lolhammer, irregardless of his alignment
if there's a 3p it's 4:2:1

assuming someone dies overnight: 3:2:1
if a townie gets mislynched: 2:2:1

so i guess worst-case scenario it's 2:2:1 tomorrow?

bleh just don't mislynch a50, i'm very very very confident he's not scum here

[skitter30]

UNVOTE:
i'm really not ready for *anybody* to be l-1 rn given the gamestate, can we not hammer anyone please

[skitter30]

i just don't want a lynch to happen yet, i'm not really ready for that yet
and you lolhammered yesterday so you're making me wary and there's at least 2 scum and it only takes 4 to lynch and that a50 wagon is atrocious and i don't want it to be a thing and i think scum are gearing up to hammer him

[skitter30]

Don't let A50 fool you and win here.
Look at how quickly he turned around for a lynch on me.
I thought I was 'locktown', but look how quickly A50's been eroding that so that he could have wiggle room to get my lynched after implosion went down.
I don't like it.

you're like litereally scum-claiming here
can you just unvote

[skitter30]

elbirn + you, n2 and n3

[skitter30]

VOTE: varsoon

[skitter30]

i have to do a thing irl, i'll get back to this discussion in like an hour, but i'll talk through that post when i get back
UNVOTE:

[skitter30]

Though I wonder if scum-A50 realizes Elbirn's too much of a consensus townread to take down and fakes his claim to provide a 'clear' there so that he looks clear as well.
Let me let you in on a little bit of modding insight that Xtoxm and I agreed on a long fucking time ago: There can never be more mechanical clears than there are scum players.
With the Lovers essentially being masons, that's 2 already. With the 1-shot cop handout, that's 3. There's no way there's fucking 6 or whatever mental shit A50 is on right now.

UNVOTE:

Walk me through how A50 isn't lying scum?

a) elbirn is not a consensus townread

b) there aren't more mechanical clears than scum - there's a phantom cop and a 1shot cop, and that's it, the phantom only gets hard guilties, it doesn't give clears

c) lovers != masons, don't be ridiculous

d) a50 doesn't have any ability to clear peopel

[skitter30]

I don't see how it's a fucking scum-claim to push what strikes me as a BLATANT SCUM GAMBIT.
If anything, the scum play by me would've been to fucking lay low and not shake up the foundations because LITERALLY THREE OTHER PEOPLE WERE UP FOR LYNCH BEFORE ME.

why is it a BLATANT SCUM GAMBIT

[skitter30]

Why is no one explaining why they trust A50 now when he's been lying all game?
Especially now when he's claiming this big huge play that he's going to make--a claim he'd NEVER make in this setup as town.

Also, Skitter, do you think your role clears Elbirn's and if so, how do you reconcile that against what I said earlier about the design theory between Xtoxm and myself? Do you think Xtoxm would design the game such that this many town could be cleared? I think Elbirn is solidly town here, and I disagree heavily with A50 shading Elbirn claiming he'd kill there as a vig, too, but I wonder what your take is on this all.

because a bunch of small details add up and make sense wrt his claim (specifically the motivator thing, he's claimed protective before, and there was something else that i'm blanking on)

why is lying about his role ai for him?

i don't know why you think elbirn is town here
no, i don't think it clears elbirn, why would it clear elbirn? if anything the reason why i think his claim is slightly townie is because he *claimed* the negative utility; i don't think he's townie by virtue of having that as his role

[skitter30]

but I'll blame skitter more for always messing up my plans by insisting to stick her nose where it doesn't belong at the worst of times.

tbh i'm not entirely sure where you think i did this here ... ?

[skitter30]

Hi I didnt hammer anyone am I a good boi

uh nobody's at l-1 rn unless i really miscounted

[skitter30]

Like if I'm on some next level paranoid shit, you really need to confirm to me beyond a reasonable doubt that you're town, A50, because otherwise I'd be voting you in LYLO.

You won't be alive in LyLo. You're today's lynch if Elbrin's not your partner. Period.

The thing is you're the only one here who knows the flavor well enough to judge, and I claimed my flavor, so -if you were town- you'd know it's true beyond doubt, and thus it matches the abilities (unless Xtoxm didn't make it that way). The fact that you overlooked that is reason enough for me to have no doubt about you being scum.

isn't varsoon the person who brought up the notion in the first place that the flexibolt thing might end up being a conditional vig on scum or something? i'm not sure why he's so skeptical?

[skitter30]

i really don't think a50 is scum here despite the fake-claiming shenanigans

[skitter30]

You're literally confirmed town thanks to my role, congratulations.

? why

Because my role (can't be modified/role changed/whatever) necessitates the existence of a town role such as yours that gives out abilities or power ups. That's literally it, nothing else.

why does it necessitate the existance of a *town* role?

@elbirn

[skitter30]

Gg scum!
Xtoxm i *greatly* enjoyed this game and your modding!

[skitter30]

I was really surprised that my big dumb push on A50 went through and was good enough that I had convinced MYSELF that he was 3P even after acknowledging you probably didn't put 3P in this game at all.

i was sooooooo annoyed when i came back and saw that he had been hammered, especially after i had just prevented it the first time around; i was pretty sure from there that the game was a loss

i'm pretty impressed that you managed to get him lynched there tbh; i def think that you guys clinched the win with that lynch.

[skitter30]

There were some roles (like loved and motivator) that were viewed as town by some purely on role which I didn't quite expect. Scum could very easily have been Loved with the Alex Yu safe claim instead of voteless, and I considered that in the design phase!

i still don't know why people were townreading the loved role

and the motivator wasn't inherently townie, it was more like scum never plays it that way (either as a real or fake-claim), by claiming it n1 in a neighborhood and saying they will be conftown, and then never, like, actually proving the role.

[skitter30]

At this point I think it's probably better that we Lynch anti-town play than allow it to live just because we townread it. Letting play like BEF's in this game survive to lylo because we decided he might not be scum and voted elsewhere lost us the game in the long run. I'm not entirely sure, but I would like to see some discussion on sacrificing possible town reads over lynching other stronger town players on the idea that numbers alone will win us the game.

like i kinda get the logic and at one point (maybe day4?) i think i basically gave up trying to prevent his mislynch because i thought it was almost inevitable and that him being around would make lylo difficult but like .... voting someone i think is town is just something i have a lot of trouble doing

at best i won't fight a lynch on someone i think is town, but i can't really convince myself ot vote someone i'm townreading like ever really

[skitter30]

The remarkable thing here to me is still that four separate townies (BEF, mcqueen, Elbirn, A50) actively lied about their roles. There are cases where this can be a good idea, but the degree to which it creates confusion is usually not worth it.

^^^^